Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: faust on March 10, 2016, 03:24:04 am
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Welcome to M79: Sherlock Mafia!
Mod: faust
Moriarty has returned! Or has he? Sherlock returns from his exile to once more face off against his arch-enemy.
This is a closed setup for 16 players. Some information about the setup is included in the second post.
Players:
1. liopoil
2. gkrieg13
3. fontisian
4. silverspawn
5. Roadrunner7671
6. Melisandre
7. Seprix
8. Hydrad iguanaiguana
9. Awaclus
10. A Drowned Kernel
11. J Reggie
12. Haddock
13. Ichimaru Gin
14. 2.71828.....
15. Jan
16. Teproc Witherweaver
Spectators tagged: ashersky, EgorK, SirMartin, Joseph2302, Witherweaver, scott_pilgrim, iguanaiguana
Day starts/ends:
D1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603120#msg603120) | mid-day flavor (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604413#msg604413) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605591#msg605591)
D2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606451#msg606451) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg609321#msg609321)
D3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg609970#msg609970) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg612365#msg612365)
D4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg613174#msg613174) | mid-day flavor (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg614080#msg614080) | end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg615508#msg615508)
Game end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg615723#msg615723)
General rules
Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post. Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post. The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
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Setup information
This is a closed invented game. Roles and role interactions follow the standards laid out in this thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14569.0), which will hopefully be finalized by the time the game starts. Not all base roles/modifiers/factions/alignments in this game are guaranteed to be listed in the thread.
Non-town aligned players are provided with fake flavor claims, which have been chosen randomly from the pool of possible flavor names. From the town-aligned players, only PRs will receive flavor names. Vanilla Townies are called Vanilla Officers in this game for flavor reasons. This is the role PM for VTs:
Welcome to M79: Sherlock Mafia!
You are a Vanilla Officer!
Your power is your vote. You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated, and there is at least one Town player still alive, or when the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, and there is at least one town player still alive.
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/something
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Yay
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You should require everyone to write out their posts by hand and scan them, so in true Sherlock Holmes fashion we can deduce who scum is by their handwriting.
(/tag for now)
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/in
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/in
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ambitious. I hope you can fill it.
I'll help! /in
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Hmmm... I'll hold out a bit for the hammer
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/tag
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/in
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/in
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You should require everyone to write out their posts by hand and scan them, so in true Sherlock Holmes fashion we can deduce who scum is by their handwriting.
(/tag for now)
But I have serial killer handwriting!
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/in
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/in
Welcome back to mafia! :)
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/in
Welcome back to mafia! :)
:)
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/in
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/tag
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/out
Sorry.
/tag though
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/tag
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Where are we going to find 9 people?
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Where are we going to find 9 people?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/
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Where are we going to find 9 people?
There are lots of ongoing games right now, including ash's 15-player RMM that just started. I'm sure once some of those progress or end and people die, we'll get more signups here.
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Where are we going to find 9 people?
There are lots of ongoing games right now, including ash's 15-player RMM that just started. I'm sure once some of those progress or end and people die, we'll get more signups here.
I'm going to probably resignup for this after I'm eliminated in any ongoing game.
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Where are we going to find 9 people?
There are lots of ongoing games right now, including ash's 15-player RMM that just started. I'm sure once some of those progress or end and people die, we'll get more signups here.
This
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/in
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/in satiable
No faust in this game means I have 50% odds of winning
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/in satiable
No faust in this game means I have 50% odds of winning
We'll kill you D1, don't worry.
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/tag
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For some reason I thought this was RMM.
/in
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/in
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/tag for now
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/in
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/in
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/out
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Hi guys.
For various reasons, I would prefer to take a break from forum mafia. That means this game cannot be run now as intended. Sorry about that. It will still happen eventually, just... not now. I will let you know once it's back on.
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/out
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Sherlock mafia has now reopened!
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/in
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/in
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/tag for now, may be in if this needs help filling up
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/tag for now, may be in if this needs help filling up
it almost certainly will
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Just as a note, I think limetime is signed up for this but he hasn't been online in a while I think
Edit: never mind
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Ok yeah you know what /in
There's no helping me now ::)
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/in
2 to go
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/in
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Someone hammer!!!!! 🔨
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Someone hammer!!!!! 🔨
Witherweaver was in, and then out. He should in again!
Not to peer pressure anyone, but peer pressure!
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I'm not playing for a while.
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I'm not playing for a while.
I suck at peer pressure...
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Well, ya need peers!
Witherweaver, please play with us! :-* 8)
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EgorK or SirMartin?
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/out
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!!!!!!!!
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He already wasn't in
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Let's try this!
/IN
For people who don't know me. i played with Silver in the champs game and we decided to roll town together this time around.
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Let's try this!
/IN
For people who don't know me. i played with Silver in the champs game and we decided to roll town together this time around.
Yay!
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Let's try this!
/IN
For people who don't know me. i played with Silver in the champs game and we decided to roll town together this time around.
:D Good to have you here.
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Now we just have to wait for Faust to get here
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Let's try this!
/IN
For people who don't know me. i played with Silver in the champs game and we decided to roll town together this time around.
Now I know who to vote for!
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Just something to note: chairs is signed up for this game but he's sick. I don't know if he's up to playing.
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Let's try this!
/IN
For people who don't know me. i played with Silver in the champs game and we decided to roll town together this time around.
Be sure to check out the forum games!
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I need to play some mafia again.
/in
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Wait, is this game even happening ? Seems unclear.
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Wait, is this game even happening ? Seems unclear.
The answer is Moat!
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Email notifications don't care about the spoiler tag, so I know I shouldn't step into that.
Lest I drown.
Because, its a trap !
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Email notifications don't care about the spoiler tag, so I know I shouldn't step into that.
Lest I drown.
Because, its a trap !
I'm pretty sure it's happening, but I think it was already full when you hammered. :(
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Email notifications don't care about the spoiler tag, so I know I shouldn't step into that.
Lest I drown.
Because, its a trap !
I'm pretty sure it's happening, but I think it was already full when you hammered. :(
I don't think chairs will participate because of illness
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And we are full! Seprix inned twice, but thanks to Teproc, we're still 16. This weekend is a bit busy for me, so I won't get around to send PMs until Monday probably.
In the meantime, everyone is advised to familiarize themselves with the setup information.
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Email notifications don't care about the spoiler tag, so I know I shouldn't step into that.
Lest I drown.
Because, its a trap !
I'm pretty sure it's happening, but I think it was already full when you hammered. :(
I don't think chairs will participate because of illness
Just saw this. I'll send a PM.
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I'm going to lurk hard.
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We play with Teproc? Woo hoo!
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/tag
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chairs will not be able to play. We'll need one more player.
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/out
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We need to get Mic Qsenoch or some other high-profile Dominion player to join!
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We need to get Mic Qsenoch or some other high-profile Dominion player to join!
ADK is the 2015 Dominion World Champion!
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We need to get Mic Qsenoch or some other high-profile Dominion player to join!
ADK is the 2015 Dominion World Champion!
That's clearly not good enough. We need the 2015 Dominion Universe Champion.
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We need to get Mic Qsenoch or some other high-profile Dominion player to join!
ADK is the 2015 Dominion World Champion!
But he's already in this game, so he can't join.
Inb4 he /outs and /ins again to prove me wrong.
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I could ask a friend or two of mine (to fill up). But only if you guys want me to.
Just let me know and I will go around begging.
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I could ask a friend or two of mine (to fill up). But only if you guys want me to.
Just let me know and I will go around begging.
Well, I don't want another reinoe situation. On the other hand, it would be nice if we could get this filled, and I can't really make it smaller.
Note: "Normal" games on f.ds are typically more complex than on other sites.
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explain to me what a reinoe situation is, please.
I wouldn't want to get 3-4+ people. that would kinda fuck with the forum meta and kill part of the fun for me to play "offsite" (with people that i don't know)
But i can get 1-2 people if you guys want me to.
I don't mind waiting for a while either, mostly an offer for you guys to talk through.
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reinoe was a guy who was invited by silver (who had played a game with him on mafiascum) here and... it did not go well. Long story short, he PMed the contents of the scum QT to everyone in the game after he got lynched day 1.
In any case, I'm also fine waiting, it's only two slots and we've got some spectators who might /in still... ash ? WW ?
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oh wow. that guy seems to be the worst.
I get why you are cautious after such an experience.
Offer stands, but I don't mind waiting either.
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What about Damdred and jog? Surely there'd be no risk with those two.
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In any case, I'm also fine waiting, it's only two slots and we've got some spectators who might /in still... ash ? WW ?
Is ash still playing? Not seen him around in a while.
Could definitely convince WW though?
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/in
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/in
I approve! And now the hammer...
...
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i have damdreg joga klopp and nac on skype, if you want any of those in here :P
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I want joga!
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Yeah, klopp posts too much. Haha
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Yeah, klopp posts too much. Haha
This is very true... I'm not sure how well that would work here
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Who is Klopp?
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you might mean NAC. NAC posts a lot more than Klopp.
Who is Klopp?
from the championship game (the same one Jan also came from)
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you might mean NAC. NAC posts a lot more than Klopp.
Who is Klopp?
from the championship game (the same one Jan also came from)
Whatever that all means, it sounds prestigious and exemplary.
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I'd be fine with letting someone else from the championships join.
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Joga was pretty cool.
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He was.
Before I killed him \X/
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I will write joga a mail!
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/IN (Joga)
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Woohoo!
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Can I have a D1 pass? These high ranking peeps are gonna lynch me because of my meta.
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Vote: Roadrunner
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Can I have a D1 pass? These high ranking peeps are gonna lynch me because of my meta.
Wow I was ninja'd before I could even start
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Let me just say, I'm really excited to be in a game that's numbered before my debut game!
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The game is dark and full of terrors
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Has everyone here pledged?*
*Barring edge cases.
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/out
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oh no!
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1 player to go...
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Donald X?
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/out
Are you serious? Why?
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Looked like some other people from the championship wanted to sign up, and I don't really want to do it/have very much time.
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only joga knows and signed up.
If you don't have the time to play then don't, but don't /out because other people might join if we ask them. :O
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I don't have the time to play two games at once.
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I'll take the last slot.
Qualifications: Season 2 champion, all-star video mafia player, 100+ forum games played, good friend of Jan's.
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I'll take the last slot.
Qualifications: Season 2 champion, all-star video mafia player, 100+ forum games played, good friend of Jan's.
You don't need any qualifications, except that you know how to play mafia, and have a good time of course.
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I feel this is the appropriate time to ask people if they have checked out this cool thing called Dominion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=1.0).
Anyway, I am excited to play with a bunch of new people (to this forum). Should be interesting.
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I feel this is the appropriate time to ask people if they have checked out this cool thing called Dominion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0).
Anyway, I am excited to play with a bunch of new people (to this forum). Should be interesting.
FTFY
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I feel this is the appropriate time to ask people if they have checked out this cool thing called Dominion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=50.0).
Anyway, I am excited to play with a bunch of new people (to this forum). Should be interesting.
FTFY
You hack fraud.
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PM time?
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PM time?
One player is still missing.
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I feel this is the appropriate time to ask people if they have checked out this cool thing called Dominion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=1.0).
Anyway, I am excited to play with a bunch of new people (to this forum). Should be interesting.
You owe ichi a dollar.
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It doesn't count outside of mafia games, come on.
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PM time?
One player is still missing.
I'll take the last slot.
Qualifications: Season 2 champion, all-star video mafia player, 100+ forum games played, good friend of Jan's.
?
According to the OP, that's the last one.
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Screw it I'll
/in
I will not be around later this week through the weekend, though.
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I somehow missed that last /in. Sorry about that. This game is now full and PMs will be out later today.
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(http://images.digopaul.com/wp-content/uploads/related_images/2015/09/09/finally_2.jpg)
(http://www.theshirtlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Winter-is-Coming.jpg)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160524/tqkd27kr.png)
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While I can always approve the use of a Miyazaki screenshot (this is pretty much the only place on the Internet where my avatar isn't Miyazaki-related), something like this would be more appropriate :
(https://49.media.tumblr.com/5d48f1bd503ee7920456ebf7f5393f52/tumblr_o0bsgeqpPV1spzlnko1_500.gif)
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(http://rs1087.pbsrc.com/albums/j471/StubbornMcCloud/tumblr_lyw3xssxeL1qejth6o1_500.gif~c200)
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While I can always approve the use of a Miyazaki screenshot (this is pretty much the only place on the Internet where my avatar isn't Miyazaki-related), something like this would be more appropriate : [...]
That doesn't look nearly as good, though.
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Yessssssssssssssssssssss
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The game is dark and full of terrors
HOLD THE DOOR :'(
Let us begin!
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That reminds me. What on earth happened to GreyICE? He/she just vanished after Adventures Mafia, and I've never seen him/her since. He wasn't a bad player.
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That reminds me. What on earth happened to GreyICE? He/she just vanished after Adventures Mafia, and I've never seen him/her since. He wasn't a bad player.
I love how you go to the effort to make he/she the first two times, but the last time you're like "screw it He wasn't a bad player"
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You actually loved that?
I just stopped caring enough to type it three times in a row.
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You actually loved that?
I just stopped caring enough to type it three times in a row.
Just type they.
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But they is stupid, because it's plural. Not to mention, he is the accepted English definition for a neutral/unknown gender until recently.
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But they is stupid, because it's plural. Not to mention, he is the accepted English definition for a neutral/unknown gender until recently.
Singular they is singular.
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Singular:
I
You
He/She/It
Plural:
We
You (all)
They/them
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It's become a thing to use they as a singular form for a person with unknown gender.
I like it, personally. It sounds right to my ears.
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It's been a thing for hundreds of years. Shakespeare was already using it.
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For once I agree with Awaclus!
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
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For once I agree with Awaclus!
So does they!
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It's been a thing for hundreds of years. Shakespeare was already using it.
oh. the more you know.
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To be clear, Shakespeare did whatever the hell he wanted and invented about half the idioms that consitute the English language today.
Only a slight exaggeration.
Can someone explain to me why that word needs a second g by the way ? It's ridiculous.
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To be clear, Shakespeare did whatever the hell he wanted and invented about half the idioms that consitute the English language today.
Only a slight exaggeration.
Can someone explain to me why that word needs a second g by the way ? It's ridiculous.
Because ex-ager-ation sounds like something you do to prevent your face from getting wrinkly?
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As if letters had any discernable impact on pronounciation. It's the English language, guessing how to pronounce something based on how it's written is like a lottery.
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As if letters had any discernable impact on pronounciation. It's the English language, guessing how to pronounce something based on how it's written is like a lottery.
OK but it LOOKs a bit like it could be that, too.
Maybe.
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To be clear, it annoys me because there's only one g in French. My theory is that you guys added it just to mess with us.
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As if letters had any discernable impact on pronounciation. It's the English language, guessing how to pronounce something based on how it's written is like a lottery.
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As if letters had any discernable impact on pronounciation. It's the English language, guessing how to pronounce something based on how it's written is like a lottery.
The irony being a Frenchman said this. Talk about letters not lining up with pronunciation at all...
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THREAD LOCKED!
If anyone else wants to join the speccy, they should send me a PM. Role PMs are going out now. Vanilla Tonwies will not receive individual QTs.
Everyone is asked to confirm either in their QT or via PM. Night 0 starts now and lasts at least 24 hours.
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Not all players have confirmed. Please be aware that if you do not confirm within 24 hours, you risk being replaced.
The 24 hour deadline ends in 5 hours.
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As soon as the guy stepped out of the room, the door of Mary's guest room swung open.
"You took way too long! Again. Don't you know how incredibly boring it is to just sit in there and wait for you to finish? And you seriously need to speak louder. I don't understand a thing you say", said Sherlock impatiently.
"You are of course aware that we tape everything so you get to hear everything we say now?" John sighed. "And just so you know, the last time we ended earlier you complained that we didn't ask the important questions."
"Oh, John. I could give you all the time in the world and you would never ask the important questions. Now let me see."
Sherlock squeezed himself between John and Mary, who were sitting on the couch, and pressed the play button.
The screen shows a man in simple clothing, probably in his forties. His shoes traces of dirt stuck to them. His trousers are sewn in some places, and his hands are rough and strong.
"You brought a farmer?", Sherlock asks. "Farmers are dull."
"You are of course aware that we are doing all of this as a favor to you?", asks Mary. "I think your brother is very right that you should focus on finding out what is going on with Moriarty."
"I am doing that", Sherlock insists. "If Moriarty really is around in some way, this is how we find out."
The man in the tape starts to talk about his cat being poisoned. "I have to admit, I don't see how a pet killer would work with Moriarty", John remarks sarcatically.
"Patience, John."
"I brought Betty to my vet, but - she couldn't tell what's wrong." Tears show in the farmer's eyes. "Three days later, she died."
"Which veterinariy surgeon did you go to?", asks John.
"Really?" Sherlock exclaims in disbelief. "Of all possible questions, you chose that one?"
"Dr Gorman", says the farmer.
"Stop the tape!" Sherlock commands.
"What's the matter?"
"I know Dr Gorman. She... helped me with a few cases some time back. If she could not figure out what Betty's problem was - then this might be interesting. Let's go."
Day 1 begins!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (16): liopoil, gkrieg13, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, Seprix, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Haddock, Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828....., Jan, Teproc
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 begins now and ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
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Well there is no WW to vote for so I guess
vote: e. Clear partner interactions there
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I just reread the game, and the case against silverspawn is totally the best. Vote: silverspawn
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16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
So you're not opening with "hi everybody"? That must mean you're town!
Hi everybody!
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Greetings everyone!
vote: Melisandre since I've never played with you before, or fontisian, or Jan, or J Reggie. So many new faces, it makes me happy!
PPE: 1
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Greetings everyone!
vote: Melisandre since I've never played with you before, or fontisian, or Jan, or J Reggie. So many new faces, it makes me happy!
PPE: 1
Well thanks for not voting me. I don't think I've ever read a whole game of yours.
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Greetings everyone!
vote: Melisandre since I've never played with you before, or fontisian, or Jan, or J Reggie. So many new faces, it makes me happy!
PPE: 1
Well thanks for not voting me. I don't think I've ever read a whole game of yours.
Let me summarize his past games: I think he is scum.
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But he actually is scum quite often (at least lately) and frustratingly difficult to lynch when that is the case.
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Well there is no WW to vote for so I guess
vote: e. Clear partner interactions there
False. LAL. Vote: gkrieg
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But he actually is scum quite often (at least lately) and frustratingly difficult to lynch when that is the case.
Then let's get off to a good start. vote: Ichimaru Gin
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Good news guys, I'm actually town here. Please don't hurt my mislynch record.
Thanks.
PPE: :(
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Mandatory vote: Awaclus.
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But really, I just don't get lynched all that often. It's probably my best trait in Mafia.
I'm not sure myself what really distinguishes my scumplay from townplay, but I feel like people are getting better at finding me out as scum--at least by like D3 or 4.
PPE: 1
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IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
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IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
So you say...
We have played together before, right?
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IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
So you say...
We have played together before, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E781QE7ZQK8
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IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
So you say...
We have played together before, right?
Young Witch would be very appalled.
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IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
So you say...
We have played together before, right?
Young Witch would be very appalled.
It's like Moat, but with motorcycles. And back breaks. And interesting voices.
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Vote: Seprix
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Actual vote by the way.
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Actual vote by the way.
Interesting. Care to elaborate on why this vote was placed?
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
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We don't always talk about Dominion in forum mafia, but when we do, it's in a game with people who have never played before.
Actual vote by the way.
Ok then...
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Hi everyone!
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Hi everyone!
Wait, so you are scum? I'm having trouble reading you now.
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Hi everyone!
Wait, so you are scum? I'm having trouble reading you now.
It happens. :-\
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
Raid isn't overrated.
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
Raid isn't overrated.
Anybody who thinks even remotely good things about Raid overrates it. And LastFootnote will never see this post, so he won't criticize me about it. :)
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16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
So you're not opening with "hi everybody"? That must mean you're town!
Hi everybody!
Scumslip, Vote: J Reggie
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Actual vote by the way.
Interesting. Care to elaborate on why this vote was placed?
Look at who you're talking to and you have your answer.
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16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
So you're not opening with "hi everybody"? That must mean you're town!
Hi everybody!
Scumslip, Vote: J Reggie
Haha, I was hoping someone would notice that.
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Care to elaborate on why this vote was placed?
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
Care to elaborate on why this vote was placed?
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
IG and Awaclus scum team. There, solved.
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Hi everyone!
Wait, so you are scum? I'm having trouble reading you now.
It's also possible that he's communicating something to his Mason partner or Neighbor.
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Officer Booty reporting for duty!
I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
Who is the most likely person to die d1 regardless of their alignment?
Asking for a friend.
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Officer Booty reporting for duty!
I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
Who is the most likely person to die d1 regardless of their alignment?
Asking for a friend.
Roadrunner
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Vote Count 1.1
Jan (1): Roadrunner7671
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Melisandre (1): Ichimaru Gin
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): J Reggie
Awaclus (1): Seprix
Seprix (1): Awaclus
J Reggie (1): liopoil
Not Voting (8): fontisian, silverspawn, Melisandre, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, Jan, Teproc
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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Actual vote by the way.
Interesting. Care to elaborate on why this vote was placed?
Look at who you're talking to and you have your answer.
It was worth a try. Oh well, I'm not going to fall into Sunk Cost Fallacy.
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I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
I want to be a voice that doesn't sound like a serial killer.
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But if i vote roadrunner now it looks like omgus not like me trying to go for the easy (miss)lynch!
who would want that?
Vote : Roadrunner7671
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I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
I want to be a voice that doesn't sound like a serial killer.
What kind of serial killer?
More singing like sweeney todd?
Cultist like Charles Manson?
Creepy fuck like Jack the ripper?
Look a lot of voices in my head sound like serial killers, please be a bit more precise about the matter!
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I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
I want to be a voice that doesn't sound like a serial killer.
What kind of serial killer?
More singing like sweeney todd?
Cultist like Charles Manson?
Creepy fuck like Jack the ripper?
Look a lot of voices in my head sound like serial killers, please be a bit more precise about the matter!
If you want a point of reference: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13958.msg540670#msg540670
Vote : Roadrunner7671
By the way, this might not count as an actual vote. The syntax is generally "vote <colon> <space> <playername>" around here and it depends on the mod whether or not "vote <space> <colon> <space> <playername>" is acceptable as well. I don't remember off the top of my head if faust was one of the mods that required the exact syntax.
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I want to be the voice of Chihiro in Spirited Away.
IG's early entrance gives me a town vibe. vote: J Reggie
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I want to be the voice of Chihiro in Spirited Away.
If there's ever a German re-dub of it, I'm sure you can pull it off!
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Next person to vote J Reggie is scum!
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Next person to vote J Reggie is scum!
I doubt it.
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Day One Reads
Town-read
Jan
Town-lean
liopoil
J Reggie
Null town-lean
Ichimaru Gin
gkrieg13
Null
Hydrad
Haddock
fontisian
A Drowned Kernel
Teproc
Null scum-lean
Roadrunner7671
2.71828.....
Scum-lean
Seprix
Scum-read
silverspawn
Awaclus
Note: In the event of there being two lurking-scum in my null pile, Seprix can be town.
Vote: Awaclus
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Day One Reads
Town-read
Jan
Town-lean
liopoil
J Reggie
Null town-lean
Ichimaru Gin
gkrieg13
Null
Hydrad
Haddock
fontisian
A Drowned Kernel
Teproc
Null scum-lean
Roadrunner7671
2.71828.....
Scum-lean
Seprix
Scum-read
silverspawn
Awaclus
Note: In the event of there being two lurking-scum in my null pile, Seprix can be town.
Vote: Awaclus
That's a lot of post durring the RVS fluff stage.
vote: Jan
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
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Whoops, vote: meliandre
Sorry Jan. :(
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Still spelled your name wrong.
vote: Melisandre
Well, now my rebuttal doesn't look half as cool.
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vote: Melisandre
(all my votes are serious, always)
If you want a voice, imagine the voice of a dude looking at a map and trying to figure out what he'll do once he gets those 5 extra cards.
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Also I don't think RR is the most likelyto be lynched on day 1. He's guaranteed to get a wagon though. Most likely to be lynched is probably Seprix, maybe Hydrad.
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Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
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Also I don't think RR is the most likelyto be lynched on day 1. He's guaranteed to get a wagon though. Most likely to be lynched is probably Seprix, maybe Hydrad.
I think it's RR way more than the other two.
Especially lately
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It really is a problem that my reads are so meta-based when I'm only aware of a third of the games going on. Have been mislynching RR a lot lately ? We're dumb.
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It really is a problem that my reads are so meta-based when I'm only aware of a third of the games going on. Have been mislynching RR a lot lately ? We're dumb.
Read my bio
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Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
Raid isn't overrated.
Anybody who thinks even remotely good things about Raid overrates it. And LastFootnote will never see this post, so he won't criticize me about it. :)
Vote: Seprix
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Officer Booty reporting for duty!
I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
Who is the most likely person to die d1 regardless of their alignment?
Asking for a friend.
Roadrunner
I have never been lynched day one as scum.
But remember that one time in Making Fun Mafia? It was pretty coolio.
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It really is a problem that my reads are so meta-based when I'm only aware of a third of the games going on. Have been mislynching RR a lot lately ? We're dumb.
Read my bio
Well, getting lynched and having a winning record are tangentially related at best. I don't get lynched much and I have a terrible record, Hydrad gets lynched a bunch and he has a great one.
Maybe we should tone down the Dominion discussion, considering.
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Could I have the voice of a sexy robot game show host/dancer?
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I get lynched all the time and I have a terrible record.
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How about we just not mislynch RR today? That would be dumb.
It really is a problem that my reads are so meta-based when I'm only aware of a third of the games going on. Have been mislynching RR a lot lately ? We're dumb.
Read my bio
Well, getting lynched and having a winning record are tangentially related at best. I don't get lynched much and I have a terrible record, Hydrad gets lynched a bunch and he has a great one.
Maybe we should tone down the Dominion discussion, considering.
I think we should increase the Dominion discussion, to force the newcomers to learn it.
Imagine the voice of a person keeping watch in a tower to make sure we keep at least 6 cards in hand.
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Scout?
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Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
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Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Sure, why not? WIFOM
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Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Silverspawn I really hope you're town because you're the scary championship person expert. You have to read them and stop them from lynching me.
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Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
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Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
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I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M9rssz6tIE
Mickey Knox (Woody Harrelson) from Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers.
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Vote: Awaclus
Someone after my own heart.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
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Vote: ADK
Even I 'know' that RVS isn't the place to be.
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Vote: ADK
Even I 'know' that RVS isn't the place to be.
So you should be voting for Seprix then.
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
I'm all for getting out of RVS. I am not for incredibly forced reads that are so contrived, you couldn't trick a rock.
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Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
LEt's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
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Guys, RVS ended 27 posts ago or so.
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
I'm all for getting out of RVS. I am not for incredibly forced reads that are so contrived, you couldn't trick a rock.
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
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silverspawn I really hope you're town because you're the scary championship person expert. You have to read them and stop them from lynching me.
I am, don't worry... finally. had too many scum games recently.
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
And why?
Vote: Awaclus
Someone after my own heart.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
vote: ADK
I disagree with the Melisandre vote, but I don't see how "voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scummy. If those votes are not RVS themselves, then why would voting for them get us back into RVS? Or is it bad for other reasons?
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ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
vote: Teproc
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I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
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ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
:o
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
vote: Teproc
:D
I like this.
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I like teproc so far
Also ADK is making the sense. The reads list doesn't seem too contrived to me
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
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ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
vote: Teproc
I'd say something but Ichimaru's fortune is already staggering (more private jokes !).
PPE : You do realise you are doing exactly what you're describing right ?
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I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
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Let's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.
Actually, we probably should spoil it. It's better if we avoid too much confusion.
Awaclus thinks that town should explain why they're town, rather than players explain why others are or aren't town. Therefore he never gives reasons for votes. He also votes for me every game with his first post even if I'm the mod.
RR is paranoid, jumpy, and weird, and tries to replicate that if he's scum. Overreaction to pressure is not a scum tell.
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Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
Have at it!
Don't know what else to say about this RVS stuff. The sooner we're out of rvs the better, but it's not like there's a line where you say "this is where it becomes non-rvs".
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How am I doing what I'm describing? Seprix voted for melisandre for having "contrived reads" because it's "too early". I'm saying that that's nonsense, and also suspicious because it's an easy position to take, so I'm voting for him.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
I thought you were serious with the reads list while knowing that it's super early and therefore weak, but not with the solid scum case on Awaclus.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
Hand raise on the first one, not on the second.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
It was ambiguous, that's what's scummy about it.
PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
PPE2 : You're voting for me, a player who is taking strong stances and getting us out of RVS. You seem to specifically be voting for me because one of those stances, too.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
It was about as solid as most of my early cases.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
It was ambiguous, that's what's scummy about it.
PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
PPE2 : You're voting for me, a player who is taking strong stances and getting us out of RVS. You seem to specifically be voting for me because one of those stances, too.
Oh, that. Well, that's partially for meta reasons, and also because I'm usually automatically a little suspicious of people who claim to have a town read on me.
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Right, I should say the second part was clearly not serious, the reads list was the ambiguous and scummy part.
PPE : What's the meta reason ?
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PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
?
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
All reads lists are page 1 if you click all ;)
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
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Right, I should say the second part was clearly not serious, the reads list was the ambiguous and scummy part.
PPE : What's the meta reason ?
You tend to townread me when you're scum and scumread when you're town (regardless of my actual alignment).
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PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
?
Explaining metas. Not only would it have been entertaining, it could have been revealing. Possibly annoying too, but ohwell.
PPE : Well, I only scumread you when you're scum is the thing, but I see.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
This post is far more scummy that your reads list, which was slightly towny.
Off-topic: Why is roadrunner RR rather that RRR? I'm going to start calling him RRR, maybe
I have some real townreads on a few players, no real scumreads. That's how I always start the game it seems.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
All reads lists are page 1 if you click all ;)
dodging a question with a joke. scummy.
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PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
?
Explaining metas. Not only would it have been entertaining, it could have been revealing. Possibly annoying too, but ohwell.
PPE : Well, I only scumread you when you're scum is the thing, but I see.
That's demonstrably false.
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Explaining metas. Not only would it have been entertaining, it could have been revealing. Possibly annoying too, but ohwell.
Oh, I thought it was referencing the next post
I agree that it could be entertaining, but I don't think it would be productive.
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PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
?
Explaining metas. Not only would it have been entertaining, it could have been revealing. Possibly annoying too, but ohwell.
PPE : Well, I only scumread you when you're scum is the thing, but I see.
That's demonstrably false.
I actually don't think it is. I'm very good at catching you. Maybe I was wrong once, but I can think of three separate times where my "ADK isn't obvtown to me, must be scum" method worked.
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I mean, I'm keeping my vote where it is for the moment, regardless.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
This post is far more scummy that your reads list, which was slightly towny.
Off-topic: Why is roadrunner RR rather that RRR? I'm going to start calling him RRR, maybe
I have some real townreads on a few players, no real scumreads. That's how I always start the game it seems.
That's probably preferable. Whenever I skim read and I see 'PR' I perk up because someone mentioned me, but they were just talking about boring Cops.
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Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
Vote: Melis
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
Elaborate?
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That's a lot of post durring the RVS fluff stage.
vote: Jan
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
I'm unsure what the Jan vote was (but I will put it to aside for now, but it is noted).
You sir, are guilty of LAMIST (look-at-me-I'm-so-towny). My reads-list was empty/hollow/random/unsupported. Why? Because it was a RVS reads-list. Look at the posts before mine. Do you think someone could build a whole reads list within 10-15 RVS posts? Explain to me how/why a try-hard scum player could have a readslist on page one? Explain to me how/why a try-hard town player could have a readslist on page one?
On page one/RVS everyone is NULL (bar maybe a null-town/scum lean here and there).
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I didn't need defending... but thanks?
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
No, I think you landed at NULL.
Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
Again, LAMIST. Also, what's this 'prepare-to-meet-Awaclus' warning? ;D
FYI: I do not have a "solid scum case" on Awaclus. He is null.
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
I'm all for getting out of RVS. I am not for incredibly forced reads that are so contrived, you couldn't trick a rock.
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
Nothing has happened so far this game. Meli had to squint from 130 yards away to even get anything out of the first two pages of interactions.
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That's a lot of post durring the RVS fluff stage.
vote: Jan
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
I'm unsure what the Jan vote was (but I will put it to aside for now, but it is noted).
You sir, are guilty of LAMIST (look-at-me-I'm-so-towny). My reads-list was empty/hollow/random/unsupported. Why? Because it was a RVS reads-list. Look at the posts before mine. Do you think someone could build a whole reads list within 10-15 RVS posts? Explain to me how/why a try-hard scum player could have a readslist on page one? Explain to me how/why a try-hard town player could have a readslist on page one?
On page one/RVS everyone is NULL (bar maybe a null-town/scum lean here and there).
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I didn't need defending... but thanks?
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
No, I think you landed at NULL.
Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
Again, LAMIST. Also, what's this 'prepare-to-meet-Awaclus' warning? ;D
FYI: I do not have a "solid scum case" on Awaclus. He is null.
I wish I could vote for you twice.
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Let me explain.
That's a lot of post durring the RVS fluff stage.
vote: Jan
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
I'm unsure what the Jan vote was (but I will put it to aside for now, but it is noted).
You sir, are guilty of LAMIST (look-at-me-I'm-so-towny). My reads-list was empty/hollow/random/unsupported. Why? Because it was a RVS reads-list. Look at the posts before mine. Do you think someone could build a whole reads list within 10-15 RVS posts? Explain to me how/why a try-hard scum player could have a readslist on page one? Explain to me how/why a try-hard town player could have a readslist on page one?
1. I voted for you when I corrected myself, and you saw it, but are attempting to make me look foolish based off of my first typing mistake.
2. What point is there making a reads list in RVS, especially when everybody is null?
3. How could a town player have an honest read list on page 1 of RVS? Give me a break. That's as tryhard as scum can get. You are acting far more "LAMIST" than I.
I'm almost inclined to give you a town read, just because this buffoonery wraps around so badly that I do not expect a championship caliber player to play this poorly as scum.
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
Elaborate?
Sure. So rvs definitely has its purpose. We can't pretend it doesn't exist. And yes, there comes a point where you're definitely out of rvs, but that's not always obvious and sometimes it really is too early to have reads. The case on Teproc also seems forced and, dare I say, opportunistic.
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Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
Was this vote/reason serious?
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
Show me which reads you agreed with my RVS-reads-list.
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Seprix is being hostile :-[
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So Melis/ADK scum team?
It's a closed set-up, so I'm betting either 2 factions of scum or 4 mafia.
Seprix is being hostile :-[
Yes, maybe a little too much. :)
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I'm thinking one mafia with a SK, but more PRs than expected in a normal game.
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Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
Was this vote/reason serious?
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
Show me which reads you agreed with my RVS-reads-list.
Yes, and I didn't really register where most of your reads lay, I was just disagreeing that trying to get reads so early was scummy.
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
Elaborate?
Sure. So rvs definitely has its purpose. We can't pretend it doesn't exist. And yes, there comes a point where you're definitely out of rvs, but that's not always obvious and sometimes it really is too early to have reads. The case on Teproc also seems forced and, dare I say, opportunistic.
I disagree about it being too early to have reads. As soon as people are posting, the game's begun.
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@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
Elaborate?
Sure. So rvs definitely has its purpose. We can't pretend it doesn't exist. And yes, there comes a point where you're definitely out of rvs, but that's not always obvious and sometimes it really is too early to have reads. The case on Teproc also seems forced and, dare I say, opportunistic.
RVS was clearly over at that point, so I don't quite get how it justifies the vote.
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1. I voted for you when I corrected myself, and you saw it, but are attempting to make me look foolish based off of my first typing mistake.
Not "foolish". There are no fools in mafia. But the fact you voted Jan randomly is maybe something to note for later.
2. What point is there making a reads list in RVS, especially when everybody is null?
Reactions (as is the point of any random vote during RVS). It appears more people had problems me scum-reading Awaclus for no reason, than town-reading Jan for no reason. The readslist was on page 1. Everyone was saying hello/talking about strategy/RVS voting/other game fluff. The "D1 readslist"/"solid scum case" was my RVS entrance into the game.
3. How could a town player have an honest read list on page 1 of RVS? Give me a break. That's as tryhard as scum can get. You are acting far more "LAMIST" than I.
That's my point. Why can't you get 'tone'? When in the history of mafia has someone expressed their full readslist during the RVS. Look at the posts before mine... a light-hearted masturbation circle of RVS/fluff (classic Page 1 play). There was absolutely NOTHING anyone could use to hard town read Jan / hard scum-read Awaclus.
I'm almost inclined to give you a town read, just because this buffoonery wraps around so badly that I do not expect a championship caliber player to play this poorly as scum.
No, I'm not going to let you ditch your "try hard scum" read of me that easy!
"I do not expect a championship caliber player to play this poorly as scum" - sounds like weak WIFOM BS.
What is your interpretation of my tone after my Day 1 Readslist / "solid scum case" post?
Unvote: Awaclus
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RVS is over?
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RVS is over?
yes. RVS has been over a long time ago.
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Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
Was this vote/reason serious?
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
Show me which reads you agreed with my RVS-reads-list.
Yes, and I didn't really register where most of your reads lay, I was just disagreeing that trying to get reads so early was scummy.
Show me which of my "reads didn't look that contrived".
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RVS is over?
That's the debate of the day. Rvs being "over" is so arbitrary; it's more of a process.
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LAMIST. I like that.
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RVS is over?
yes. RVS has been over a long time ago.
Says who?
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RVS is over?
yes. RVS has been over a long time ago.
Says who?
Ss and ADK
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I think RVS is over. There isn't enough information to make an incredibly educated vote, but there's enough to start in that direction.
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I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
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So Melis/ADK scum team?
Is "ADK" scum Seprix? I thought I was 'too bad to be scum' a second ago... ???
Present to the class, your "Melis/ADK scum team theory". Go. I'll bring the popcorn.
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I think RVS is over. There isn't enough information to make an incredibly educated vote, but there's enough to start in that direction.
See, what I'm saying is that means we're still kind of in rvs. Rvs isn't just magically over; you have to actively work to move away from it. That's what I'm hoping we do.
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Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
Was this vote/reason serious?
His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there.
Show me which reads you agreed with my RVS-reads-list.
Yes, and I didn't really register where most of your reads lay, I was just disagreeing that trying to get reads so early was scummy.
Show me which of my "reads didn't look that contrived".
I mostly liked that you were voting for awaclus.
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My interactions with Mali are a great place to start.
Not "foolish". There are no fools in mafia. But the fact you voted Jan randomly is maybe something to note for later.
Yes, it very well could be. That would be the perfect way to do some shenanigan voting tricks with PRs, though I also voted Awaclus first, so I don't see how Jan would be affected along with everyone else I would vote for without the game becoming broken as a result. I mean, it is closed set-up, who knows. Doesn't hurt to keep track of that.
Reactions (as is the point of any random vote during RVS). It appears more people had problems me scum-reading Awaclus for no reason, than town-reading Jan for no reason. The readslist was on page 1. Everyone was saying hello/talking about strategy/RVS voting/other game fluff. The "D1 readslist"/"solid scum case" was my RVS entrance into the game.
That's my point. Why can't you get 'tone'? When in the history of mafia has someone expressed their full readslist during the RVS. Look at the posts before mine... a light-hearted masturbation circle of RVS/fluff (classic Page 1 play). There was absolutely NOTHING anyone could use to hard town read Jan / hard scum-read Awaclus.
I apologize then. You know what you're doing.
What is your interpretation of my tone after my Day 1 Readslist / "solid scum case" post?
Define tone and interpretation? We may speak different languages and have the same meaning, or perhaps your Mafia meta is much above mine.
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[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] :'(
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vote: JReggie
vote: RR
vote: Seprix
RVS is a process. And that process is over. It's over over. It's not even close. We're past the point of arguing.
[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] :'(
yes, it will soon.
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So Melis/ADK scum team?
Is "ADK" scum Seprix? I thought I was 'too bad to be scum' a second ago... ???
Present to the class, your "Melis/ADK scum team theory". Go. I'll bring the popcorn.
I elect not to. :)
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I mostly liked that you were voting for awaclus.
Please show me your scum-feelings for "awaclus" based on his posts prior to my RVS vote.
I want to see this correlation of non-"contrived" scum-reads.
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[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] :'(
[I think you have to post somewhere with Dominion. Go make an introductions post or something, I think that would work?]
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Meli seems to be one of the tricky GreyICE types who like to butt heads. I don't want to make a stereotype, but that seems to be how everybody plays from mafia sites. :p
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I mostly liked that you were voting for awaclus.
Please show me your scum-feelings for "awaclus" based on his posts prior to my RVS vote.
I want to see this correlation of non-"contrived" scum-reads.
I want to vote for awaclus basically all the time, for meta reasons. And I guess I wasn't surprised that he came off as instantly scummy to someone new to the site.
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Yes, it very well could be. That would be the perfect way to do some shenanigan voting tricks with PRs, though I also voted Awaclus first, so I don't see how Jan would be affected along with everyone else I would vote for without the game becoming broken as a result. I mean, it is closed set-up, who knows. Doesn't hurt to keep track of that.
The tin-foil-hat part of me is thinking you were going to vote Jan before me (he was on your mind, did you draft a vote for Jan...? Nevermind) - some reachy-associations BS on my part - but at this stage null on it.
Define tone and interpretation?
Tone in the sense of:
- do you think my tone is sincere (am I throwing out questions for the sake of it to appear like a try-hard townie [I believe that is the crux of your scum-read of me]) or do you think I genuinely trying to sort players?
- do you think I am scum-flailing and reacting badly to your 'pressure'/vote?
- do you think any of my reactions and defence of my opinion is scum/null/town-indicative?
Right now, your paranoia of me ended with 'too-bad-to-be-scum' - which I think is a cheap cop out of a scum-read :/
Drawing up a scum-team fueled some OMGUS in my veins too.
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Yes, it very well could be. That would be the perfect way to do some shenanigan voting tricks with PRs, though I also voted Awaclus first, so I don't see how Jan would be affected along with everyone else I would vote for without the game becoming broken as a result. I mean, it is closed set-up, who knows. Doesn't hurt to keep track of that.
The tin-foil-hat part of me is thinking you were going to vote Jan before me (he was on your mind, did you draft a vote for Jan...? Nevermind) - some reachy-associations BS on my part - but at this stage null on it.
I thought he voted Jan because he got the two of you confused because you're both new.
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Yes, it very well could be. That would be the perfect way to do some shenanigan voting tricks with PRs, though I also voted Awaclus first, so I don't see how Jan would be affected along with everyone else I would vote for without the game becoming broken as a result. I mean, it is closed set-up, who knows. Doesn't hurt to keep track of that.
The tin-foil-hat part of me is thinking you were going to vote Jan before me (he was on your mind, did you draft a vote for Jan...? Nevermind) - some reachy-associations BS on my part - but at this stage null on it.
I mistook you for Jan. Too many new people with different avatars. Jan has fox, you have Frodo Baggins clone.
Define tone and interpretation?
Tone in the sense of:
- do you think my tone is sincere (am I throwing out questions for the sake of it to appear like a try-hard townie [I believe that is the crux of your scum-read of me]) or do you think I genuinely trying to sort players?
- do you think I am scum-flailing and reacting badly to your 'pressure'/vote?
- do you think any of my reactions and defence of my opinion is scum/null/town-indicative?
No, I don't think your tone is quite sincere, though your explanation is excellent, and what I would except from a good player. I do not think you a reacting badly to my vote at all. You are reacting well enough for me to be satisfied with your original post. You are also possibly British.
Right now, your paranoia of me ended with 'too-bad-to-be-scum' - which I think is a cheap cop out of a scum-read :/
If it is any consolation to you, I don't think you're playing too poorly to be scum anymore. I know, such a great consolation prize to be labeled possible scum instead of poor town player.
Drawing up a scum-team fueled some OMGUS in my veins too.
Hey, a reaction!
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[I think you have to post somewhere with Dominion. Go make an introductions post or something, I think that would work?]
[Cheers, it worked.]
I mistook you for Jan. Too many new people with different avatars. Jan has fox, you have Frodo Baggins clone.
I can believe this.
No, I don't think your tone is quite sincere
Insincere scum I can buy. But I strongly object to the 'omg-a-readslist-of-every-player-on-page-one-during-RVS?! Try-hard-scum-lord!'. That reaction disturbed me.
You are also possibly British.
;D
If it is any consolation to you, I don't think you're playing too poorly to be scum anymore. I know, such a great consolation prize to be labeled possible scum instead of poor town player.
Yes, I can see you seeing me as "possible scum" (no problems with that), but you viewing me as "bad scum" was the LAMIST part of my defence/attack on you. I could not comprehend how you could defend the try-hard-scum angle based on the game at that stage. Perhaps maybe a few pages in... I could see town-Seprix being suspicious of someone forcing out unsupported reads.
Hey, a reaction!
I am happy it was just a reaction test, as the timing was scandalous.
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
Man, is it though?
I'll just go back to lurking. This is a bit ugly to watch.
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
Yeah, I agree Seprix is looking super townie and moving the game forward. I was probably off with my scum read on you.
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
Man, is it though?
I'll just go back to lurking. This is a bit ugly to watch.
Wow, I'm here thinking this is really fun. To each their own.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
This isn't scum Roadrunner. Scum RR is good at Mafia. Town RR gets lynched D1 and causes everyone to win.
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Who's fontisian?
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
This isn't scum Roadrunner. Scum RR is good at Mafia. Town RR gets lynched D1 and causes everyone to win.
As long as you're not a compulsive gladiator.
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Also I don't think RR is the most likelyto be lynched on day 1. He's guaranteed to get a wagon though. Most likely to be lynched is probably Seprix, maybe Hydrad.
Nah not today, Seprix isn't getting lynched D1. Seprix is scum-reading/voting me now for better reasons :)
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So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
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So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Town, neutral, town.
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I forgot to unvote. Melis is playing well enough to keep alive for a day at least.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Ok, gkrieg13 and J Reggie didn't like my vote on Roadrunner7671 - could you two guys please point me to some Roadrunner7671 town/scum-meta. Atm, looking at the last few pages, I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Ok, gkrieg13 and J Reggie didn't like my vote on Roadrunner7671 - could you two guys please point me to some Roadrunner7671 town/scum-meta. Atm, looking at the last few pages, I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
Someone told me to make a list! It's finally come in handy:
Forum Mafia Metas
Too many generalizations
Misses the point
Short posts
Weird
Votes independently
Voices opinions
Claims to be the worst player ever
Helpful in the thick of things
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I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
Honestly, that pretty much sums up his meta. I'm too lazy to pull it up but there was a game where he argued quiet strongly against lynching because he thought the flavor suggested that there wasn't scum.
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And I'm floating around because
14 13 of us are still in RVS.
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So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Why's gkrieg on the list? null, null, scum.
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I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
Honestly, that pretty much sums up his meta. I'm too lazy to pull it up but there was a game where he argued quiet strongly against lynching because he thought the flavor suggested that there wasn't scum.
That game was different. It was on the fine line between bastard and RMM, and flavor mattered.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Ok, gkrieg13 and J Reggie didn't like my vote on Roadrunner7671 - could you two guys please point me to some Roadrunner7671 town/scum-meta. Atm, looking at the last few pages, I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
That's exactly what he's like as town. As mafia he's a lot more confident; as town he's self-doubting and paranoid. That often reads scummy and people need to learn that for him it's not.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Ok, gkrieg13 and J Reggie didn't like my vote on Roadrunner7671 - could you two guys please point me to some Roadrunner7671 town/scum-meta. Atm, looking at the last few pages, I don't know what Roadrunner7671 is doing :D It feels like he is floating about.
That's exactly what he's like as town. As mafia he's a lot more confident; as town he's self-doubting and paranoid. That often reads scummy and people need to learn that for him it's not.
Have you been stalking me?
That's not true though! EFHW is really good at seeing through that. But you don't have to worry about what I'm like as Mafia this game ;)
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
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Wow. I don't check for a few hours and we're already out of RVS. bravo!
I don't recall Seprix being this aggressive before. Maybe I've just forgotten.
I feel like vote: gkrieg
PPE: 1
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
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Have you been stalking me?
Haha, no, I think you and Awaclus have the easiest-to-describe metas. I do think you're one of the cooler people on f.ds though.
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What's J Reggie's meta like? Any games I should be pointed to?
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
A vote indicates that someone is doing the wrong thing so you want them to die, right?
So Seprix wants people who want to leave RVS to die. So we're still in RVS, which is scummy because people like me clog the thread.
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What's J Reggie's meta like? Any games I should be pointed to?
This is his first game!
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What's J Reggie's meta like? Any games I should be pointed to?
This is my second game. The other one is ongoing.
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Have you been stalking me?
Haha, no, I think you and Awaclus have the easiest-to-describe metas. I do think you're one of the cooler people on f.ds though.
I'm so honored. Have a D3 pass!
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What's J Reggie's meta like? Any games I should be pointed to?
This is his first game!
Oh! Well then. Carry on.
My biggest townread is probably melis; his play feels very confident. I like it.
PPEs
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But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave.
IMO, our exchanges were controlled. I got information. I hope/presume Seprix did too.
What did you mean by 'chill' though? For him to lay off from pressuring me?
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
I wouldn't worry about it. You needn't worry, RR. That was a complete anomaly.
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But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave.
IMO, our exchanges were controlled. I got information. I hope/presume Seprix did too.
What did you mean by 'chill' though? For him to lay off from pressuring me?
No, I meant that he should relax, cool off, tone it down, etc.
Maybe I'm the problem. I've never played with someone who has an aggressive playstyle. Speaking of which, he Seprix! This is our first game!
-
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
[Is there a way to run an ISO of a player on this thread? (read all of a player's posts in isolation)]
-
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
[Is there a way to run an ISO of a player on this thread? (read all of a player's posts in isolation)]
Control F?
-
We haven't seen Haddock, Hydrad, Fontisian or Liopoli yet.
Guys?
-
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
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[The only way I know to read all of a players post is to click on "all" for the page selection, then use Control-F on a piece of text in their signature. "Goko username: so-and-so" is usually helpful. The site lacks Mafiascum's very useful feature.]
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We haven't seen Haddock, Hydrad, Fontisian yet.
Guys?
FTFM
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
-
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
It was RVS
-
Why do people put some stuff in brackets? Is it a Mafiascum thing?
-
[Why do people put some stuff in brackets? Is it a Mafiascum thing?]
[I think it's for off topic stuff.]
-
Officer Duty reporting for booty.
It's also possible that he's communicating something to his Mason partner or Neighbor.
Vote: Awaclus
Prepare to die, rolehunter.
It really is a problem that my reads are so meta-based when I'm only aware of a third of the games going on. Have been mislynching RR a lot lately ? We're dumb.
You shall be a townread.
Vote: Awaclus
Someone after my own heart.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
Man, this feels so fake. Like, you came into the game and felt like you had to put a real vote down to look town, but you didn't have any mafia reads, so you took something that isn't really scummy and amplified your surety over it. And then you buddied Melisandre, which has the scum motivation of making him less likely to go after you and no real town motivation. Ew.
Compare to Seprix's certainty:
So Melis/ADK scum team?
It so much more organic and real.
Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
This post is far more scummy that your reads list, which was slightly towny.
Off-topic: Why is roadrunner RR rather that RRR? I'm going to start calling him RRR, maybe
I have some real townreads on a few players, no real scumreads. That's how I always start the game it seems.
You shall also be town. It is known.
There's this really stupid scumtell on one of the sites I play called "excessive emoji usage." It's occasionally great for looking at tone inconsistencies and Melisandre is ticking off every mark. He's definitely not with ADK though.
As tempted as I am to pressure Awaclus to hell and back, his evaluation is probably more bad then mafia.
Vote: ADK
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We haven't seen Haddock, Hydrad, Fontisian or Liopoli yet.
Guys?
Actually, liopoli has been around and made some pretty sweet points earlier.
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We haven't seen Haddock, Hydrad, Fontisian or Liopoli yet.
Guys?
Actually, liopoli has been around and made some pretty sweet points earlier.
I know, that's why I fixed it.
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Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
He hates voting so him leaving his RVS vote is well within his town meta. We have mislynched him way too many times recently
-
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
Wait a second here.. This is not a great opinion at all.
vote: ADK
Houston, we got one!
-
Man, that was my real reaction looking at Seprix's post. If it looks "fake" to you I don't know how to argue against that, sorry.
-
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
Wait a second here.. This is not a great opinion at all.
vote: ADK
Houston, we got one!
What's wrong with it?
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What's the case?
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Wait I started this wagon.
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What's the case?
People don't like the reasons I voted for Seprix, far as I can tell. They seemed like fine reasons to me at the time.
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Yes, yes, OMGUS post because you voted me, whatever. I said the excuse already, and it's not the reason.
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
It feels like you're trying and looking hard for some good reason to curtail what I'm doing. Why are you so worried about people getting pressured? What if the people putting the pressure on are scumhunting? And what if the people calling for that to stop are scum...?
Seriously, this 'reason' for me being scum just feels like you're trying to find some justification to vote for me.
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This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
But wait, you're okay with the pressure going on here... But you're not over there.
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How inconsistent, ADK. Care to explain?
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Seprix, I'm agreeing with your case on ADK. It's basically what I was thinking but couldn't put into words. vote: ADK.
And with that I bid you goodnight.
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Man, I'm not even voting for you right now, Seprix.
I felt a certain way when I read that post. I gave my reason for that vote. Maybe it's a bad reason! It felt right at the time. I've since changed it, and since changed my read on Seprix, so that's not even relevant at the moment.
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Vote count?
Basically, the problem I have is this: You suddenly changed your read on me as I apply the pressure on you. You cracked. If it didn't work out like that, you would have kept your original read, and you know it. You never mentioned that you were changing your opinion on me before. Seems weird to suddenly bring it up now.
I like my vote. I say ADK is as good a D1 lynch as any.
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Vote count?
Basically, the problem I have is this: You suddenly changed your read on me as I apply the pressure on you. You cracked. If it didn't work out like that, you would have kept your original read, and you know it. You never mentioned that you were changing your opinion on me before. Seems weird to suddenly bring it up now.
I like my vote. I say ADK is as good a D1 lynch as any.
I changed my opinion on you when you were having your discussion with Melis. About when I made the "this is good" post I think.
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Umm, are there any scum!Seprix games I can look at? Because, well, usually acting different than normal is a red flag. And his posts came off a little like he was artificially picking a fight. Scummy.
What's with the ADK votes?
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-Roadrunner votes ADK because he misunderstood the post (later moves it)
-SS votes ADK because he disagrees with the post (later moves it)
-Fortisian votes ADK because he thinks the post is fake
-Seprix votes ADK for explaining himself (Seprix was building up to this for a while...)
-J Reggie sheeps Seprix
These are not good votes. ADK's post made sense to me.
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How inconsistent, ADK. Care to explain?
Calling those posts inconsistent is a stretch at best. I mean, I guess it's totally possible you're just mistaken (with some confirmation bias), but my guess it that it's at least a little manufactured. Vote: Seprix
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Umm, are there any scum!Seprix games I can look at? Because, well, usually acting different than normal is a red flag. And his posts came off a little like he was artificially picking a fight. Scummy.
What's with the ADK votes?
I haven't played any Mafia games in a long time, probably over half a year. I'm playing like this in the other current Mafia game I'm in, but of course that game isn't close to over, so you can't really use it for reference either.
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-Roadrunner votes ADK because he misunderstood the post (later moves it)
-SS votes ADK because he disagrees with the post (later moves it)
-Fortisian votes ADK because he thinks the post is fake
-Seprix votes ADK for explaining himself (Seprix was building up to this for a while...)
-J Reggie sheeps Seprix
These are not good votes. ADK's post made sense to me.
Excellent, excellent. I like disagreement. I like this. If nobody fights a potential lynch, it's either obviously scum or we're doing something wrong, and I don't think ADK is 'obviously' scum, just very likely.
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vote: Seprix
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
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I have arived!
Why is there like 5 pages of posts already! I missed RVS!
also. Totally forgot that I had signed up for this game I got my message. We will se how this goes.
First thoughts.
Hey we have some championship guys here. Thats pretty neat. This should be a fun game.
Seprix feels like a new person. But I don't think hes played for a while so maybe he just changed a bit? still weird.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
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Officer Duty reporting for booty.
It's also possible that he's communicating something to his Mason partner or Neighbor.
Vote: Awaclus
Prepare to die, rolehunter.
Let me explain the joke (because when you explain a joke, it makes it funnier).
There was a game in which Roadrunner was the scum Rolecop. In that game, he agreed with the other scum to start the next day by saying "Hi everyone!" if his Rolecop result was a Roleblocker, and then it was a Roleblocker so that's what he did. Now, whenever he says "Hi everyone!" (which is all the time), people sometimes joke around by suggesting that he's trying to communicate something to his partner again.
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Seprix has a new playstyle. I like it, though I have no idea what it means re: his alignment.
J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
More importantly though, Melisandre is getting scummier by the minute. Though... silver, did she/he tend to overreact to pressure in the championship game ? Melisandre was town there right ?
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By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
That's a lot of post durring the RVS fluff stage.
vote: Jan
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
I'm unsure what the Jan vote was (but I will put it to aside for now, but it is noted).
You sir, are guilty of LAMIST (look-at-me-I'm-so-towny). My reads-list was empty/hollow/random/unsupported. Why? Because it was a RVS reads-list. Look at the posts before mine. Do you think someone could build a whole reads list within 10-15 RVS posts? Explain to me how/why a try-hard scum player could have a readslist on page one? Explain to me how/why a try-hard town player could have a readslist on page one?
On page one/RVS everyone is NULL (bar maybe a null-town/scum lean here and there).
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I didn't need defending... but thanks?
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
No, I think you landed at NULL.
Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
Again, LAMIST. Also, what's this 'prepare-to-meet-Awaclus' warning? ;D
FYI: I do not have a "solid scum case" on Awaclus. He is null.
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
Also, I hate that acronym already.
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Yo.
Sorry guys.
Also, not sorry, the game started at like midnight my time. I'm only just up. Catching up, contributions soon.
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Vote Count 1.2
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Melisandre (2): Teproc, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (4): Awaclus, silverspawn, liopoil, 2.71828.....
Roadrunner7671 (2): Jan, Melisandre
Teproc (1): A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (3): fontisian, Seprix, J Reggie
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (1): Haddock
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
Could I see scum-Seprix trying to shut down all early scum-reads/votes to suppress early town-scumhunting? IMO, it's a far-fetched theory.
Could I see town-A Drowned Kernel trying to present this as a genuine scum-case? :-\
What's your current read on Seprix and me?
Man, this feels so fake. Like, you came into the game and felt like you had to put a real vote down to look town, but you didn't have any mafia reads, so you took something that isn't really scummy and amplified your surety over it. And then you buddied Melisandre, which has the scum motivation of making him less likely to go after you and no real town motivation. Ew.
Yeah, I could actually buy this. Convincing scum-A Drowned Kernel narrative presented here.
There's this really stupid scumtell on one of the sites I play called "excessive emoji usage." It's occasionally great for looking at tone inconsistencies and Melisandre is ticking off every mark.
Wait to you witness my "excessive gif usage" :D
He's definitely not with ADK though.
Could you expand on this please.
We have mislynched him way too many times recently
His playstyle makes him D1 Mr Lynchbait... ok, I'll wait to see the results of his game instead. Too many town-meta defences here.
Unvote: Roadrunner7671
I have arived!
Why is there like 5 pages of posts already! I missed RVS!
also. Totally forgot that I had signed up for this game I got my message. We will se how this goes.
First thoughts.
Hey we have some championship guys here. Thats pretty neat. This should be a fun game.
Seprix feels like a new person. But I don't think hes played for a while so maybe he just changed a bit? still weird.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
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Seprix has a new playstyle. I like it, though I have no idea what it means re: his alignment.
J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
More importantly though, Melisandre is getting scummier by the minute. Though... silver, did she/he tend to overreact to pressure in the championship game ? Melisandre was town there right ?
yes, but not just any town. He was the cop (with N0-check).
And no, he didn't really react to the votes on him at all. He just continued to make his targeted rereads.
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And no, he didn't really react to the votes on him at all. He just continued to make his targeted rereads.
Excellent.
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I agree with the Seprix case. What he did felt like voting for the unknown guy and then beckpedaling once he saw that it wouldn't really lead anywhere. Thinking Melisandre isn't a bad player should not move your vote. He can be a good scum player.
I'd vote for him but I'm already voting.
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And no, he didn't really react to the votes on him at all. He just continued to make his targeted rereads.
Excellent.
I guess I'll press on this : should be a clear indicator right ? Pretty typical to be more on edge and quick to react to pressure as scum... maybe you disagree Melisandre overreacted to votes on him here ? He did though, acting shocked that we could have possibly misread his reads post and downright indignant that we dared make cases so early.
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J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
Let's talk about J Reggie:
Wasn't quite sure what this was:
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Was it J Reggie trying to encourage conversation... was J Reggie going to present his reads on gkrieg/Teproc? I read it as he's having problems trying to sort those two slots. Null on the 'hey-guys-how-are-you-reading-me-right-now?' - it shows he is comfortable, but I wouldn't call it town confidence right now: I need to hear him be more expressive with his reads.
At one point I thought J Reggie had extinguished his scum-feelings of A Drowned Kernel:
I was probably off with my scum read on you.
But then was happy to sheep Seprix on the A Drowned Kernel wagon:
Seprix, I'm agreeing with your case on ADK. It's basically what I was thinking but couldn't put into words. vote: ADK.
"couldn't put into words" or "probably off with my scum read on you".
@A Drowned Kernel - could you please talk me through your read progression on A Drowned Kernel from start to finish.
This would make me feel more comfortable with him.
Jumping on Silver? I missed that.
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I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
It felt very Hydrad to me.
Another player with a strange meta. You can tell that we're giving a lot of weight to meta. You may refer to his signature.
In this case his meta is making occasional, generally short and sort of uninvolved posts which casually comment on what's going on, which he imitates frustratingly well as scum. Telling the difference is not easy.
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I guess I'll press on this : should be a clear indicator right ? Pretty typical to be more on edge and quick to react to pressure as scum... maybe you disagree Melisandre overreacted to votes on him here ? He did though, acting shocked that we could have possibly misread his reads post and downright indignant that we dared make cases so early.
I would buy that if it was a new player. But as is, I can't imagine he has such an obvious difference in his town and scum play. I think he probably just wanted to fly under the radar in the championship game because he was 80% of the town's PR strength, and was therefore less confrontational.
I don't disagree that he had strong reactions to votes.
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So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Was it J Reggie trying to encourage conversation... was J Reggie going to present his reads on gkrieg/Teproc? I read it as he's having problems trying to sort those two slots. Null on the 'hey-guys-how-are-you-reading-me-right-now?' - it shows he is comfortable, but I wouldn't call it town confidence right now: I need to hear him be more expressive with his reads.
This post jumped out to me as well. J Reggie is a new player, so I don't know any more than you here, but I have the opposite read on it : I think it shows that he's nervous on what people think of him, which I think is generally a scummy trait.
Jumping on Silver? I missed that.
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
Also, I guess you need to do a post outside of the forum-game section too if you want to get rid of the filling-in-numbers thing (and same for Jan).
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
Also, I guess you need to do a post outside of the forum-game section too if you want to get rid of the filling-in-numbers thing (and same for Jan).
Sure looks like a good lynch to me.
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By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
Amended.
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
"accusing people" - only Seprix. But we got to the bottom of his scum-read. Please read Post #301 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603325#msg603325). I could not see the forced-reads/bad-scum angle on Page 1-RVS. If I'd presented the same hollow/unsupported/naked readslist on this page - I think Seprix may have had an argument.
Pretty typical to be more on edge and quick to react to pressure as scum... maybe you disagree Melisandre overreacted to votes on him here ? He did though, acting shocked that we could have possibly misread his reads post and downright indignant that we dared make cases so early.
I didn't give a f**k about the vote. I'm only concerned about the supporting reason. I can see town-Seprix thinking I'm "possible scum" (no problem with that), but not "bad-scum". If so, that's lamist (scum-indicative).
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Corrected:
@A J Reggie- could you please talk me through your read progression on A Drowned Kernel from start to finish.
This would make me feel more comfortable with him.
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It felt very Hydrad to me.
Another player with a strange meta. You can tell that we're giving a lot of weight to meta. You may refer to his signature.
In this case his meta is making occasional, generally short and sort of uninvolved posts which casually comment on what's going on, which he imitates frustratingly well as scum. Telling the difference is not easy.
Thanks for this.
You've made a few meta-defences so far. Anyone else playing against/for their town-meta atm? People have already said Seprix is playing with a new tune (but they are null on it).
Also, is A Drowned Kernel usually a player who doesn't like early D1 focus on him? Or does he invite it by talking himself into pressure?
...and where's Jan? :'(
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
What's your take on the ADK-hate since making this early comment?
Do you think the scum-case/suspicion on ADK is reachy/tangible/weak/healthy-paranoia?
I have some real townreads on a few players, no real scumreads. That's how I always start the game it seems.
Please share.
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
Just re-reading that passage now...
Is this what you meant: 'Scum-J Reggie jumped on the town-players scum-reading town-you'? (Motivation: town-cred?)
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By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
Amended.
Thanks !
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
"accusing people" - only Seprix. But we got to the bottom of his scum-read. Please read Post #301 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603325#msg603325). I could not see the forced-reads/bad-scum angle on Page 1-RVS. If I'd presented the same hollow/unsupported/naked readslist on this page - I think Seprix may have had an argument.
Obviously I read it, I see it as Seprix exaggerating his instinctual read (that your post was scummy) to move the game along, which is townie in my book. What I find amusing/hypocritical is the whole "LAMIS" thing, because that term completely applies to your first few posts.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
What's your take on the ADK-hate since making this early comment?
Do you think the scum-case/suspicion on ADK is reachy/tangible/weak/healthy-paranoia?
Of those, I'll got with "healthy-paranoia". More precisely, "early active player syndrome". Anyone who is active early willreceive suspicion because that's how the game gets started : you can only find people scummy if they post, and moreso if they post things of substance (I'm talking early game here). I don't agree with those people, but their votes seem fine, except for j-reggie, which gets us to...
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
Just re-reading that passage now...
Is this what you meant: 'Scum-J Reggie jumped on the town-players scum-reading town-you'? (Motivation: town-cred?)
[/quote]
Close. While I think ADK is town, I try to avoid arguments that are contingent on multiple alignments. It's more that I think J-Reggie saw a succession of two votes on someone, and did the apparently reasonable thing (I guess you'd call it LAMIST) of siding against them. It's just that his reaction to those votes felt forced : he had to do something because he was here, so he did that.
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I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
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Re-reading A Drowned Kernel's posts I end up town-lean reading him.
I think he is a player who talks himself into being scum-read. I had objections to most things he was saying (but illogical does not equal scum-indicative). As Teproc said, I can see why the votes are on him though.
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Also, vote: J Reggie
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You've made a few meta-defences so far. Anyone else playing against/for their town-meta atm? People have already said Seprix is playing with a new tune (but they are null on it).
Hard to say. I'm scum on Seprix, but he's the only one. RR in particular I have a townread on based on his latest posts, strange as that may seem.
J Reggie is particularly tricky to judge as he has no finished games yet.
Also, is A Drowned Kernel usually a player who doesn't like early D1 focus on him? Or does he invite it by talking himself into pressure?
Also hard to say. I don't think he usually gets early pressure.
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Obviously I read it, I see it as Seprix exaggerating his instinctual read (that your post was scummy) to move the game along, which is townie in my book. What I find amusing/hypocritical is the whole "LAMIS" thing, because that term completely applies to your first few posts.
Ok, I can see how you think I could be a hypocritical bast**d - I did admittedly switch to serious mode very quick.
Of those, I'll got with "healthy-paranoia". More precisely, "early active player syndrome". Anyone who is active early willreceive suspicion because that's how the game gets started : you can only find people scummy if they post, and moreso if they post things of substance (I'm talking early game here). I don't agree with those people, but their votes seem fine, except for j-reggie, which gets us to...
I like this.
Yeah, I want to see J Reggie's thought-process ASAP.
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RR in particular I have a townread on based on his latest posts
I'm just playing up my meta for the benefit of those who I've never played with.
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Also, is A Drowned Kernel usually a player who doesn't like early D1 focus on him? Or does he invite it by talking himself into pressure?
Also hard to say. I don't think he usually gets early pressure.
That's not what it feels like to me, but I'm biased.
Melisandre, I can point you to a few games where I got early pressure, both as town and as scum, if you're interested.
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Melisandre, I can point you to a few games where I got early pressure, both as town and as scum, if you're interested.
Please - at some point of D1 I will need to meta-dig a few slots to judge the validity of all these meta-defences ;D
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Ok, a lot of stuff to respond to. Will catch up as I eat breakfast.
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So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
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I need to hear him be more expressive with his reads.
That's not going to happen until I have better reads to be expressive about. At this point it's all I can do to have any reads.
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Off to work. I read everything, and I have some things to talk about when I get back.
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It'll be like 4 1/2 hours. Yes, lame job hours. I know.
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
Man, why are you equating calling someone British with insulting them? :(
Anyway. Yeah I think I'm caught up now. There's way too much going on in this game for me to follow easily though. Phew.
Thoughts so far:
RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned. Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point.
J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately.
Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like. Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall.
I wanna have a closer look at ADK too, which I'll get to at some point.
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J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
What is a good way to feel forced? Is that even a thing? And honestly yes, it is a little forced. I kind of have to force reads early with very little information. What happens after that is where the real reads come from.
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Ok. I'm awake now.
Not a fan of the ADK wagon. I always think Seprix is scummy.
Also, scumread on Melis for changing his avatar already.
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
It's a pun on the flavor of this game.
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
It's a pun on the flavor of this game.
Oh, yeah... :-[
I kind of forgot what flavor the game was.
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I kind of forgot what flavor the game was.
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Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
It's a pun on the flavor of this game.
Oh, yeah... :-[
I kind of forgot what flavor the game was.
I guess this is a town-slip, maybe not. I feel like if you were mafia you would have been more aware of the flavor, and this doesn't seem like a thing you did on purpose. Although there's the whole debate over whether town-slips are real or not, but whatever.
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So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
Re: the opinion poll: I found it odd that gkrieg was asked about considering he had made 2 posts at that point.
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Seprix reread:
RVS vote
makes some jokes then asks Awaclus to explain his vote
more jokes, and throws some dominion stuff in there
says that asking Awaclus was worth a shot, and that he doesn't want to put more energy into it
attempts three times to vote for Melis because of his early reads list
says that for WIFOM reasons Melis might open this way as scum
warns about Awaclus
says that he doesn't like the forced reads to get out of RVS
says he wants to vote for Melis twice
says once again that he really doesn't like the reads list of Melis. I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason.
gives some setup talk where he says we are either multiball, or a 4-person scum team. I think Mistborn Mafia was this size and it had a 5-person mafia team, but we kept thinking it was multiball. I wouldn't discount a large mafia team until we see otherwise.
says he thinks RVS is over
claims an ADK/Melis scum team but then doesn't want to express a case
Has a post where he says that he townreads Melis because he is too scummy to be scum. There is also some other great content in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603318;topic=14936.0;last_msg=603541)
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
votes ADK because ADK says that there is a scum motivation for making someone defensive. I agree with Seprix here. I don't think there is a scum motivation for attacking someone. Usually you want to hide in the shadows while two other townies fight. Especially in a game this large where you will have townies fight.
points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic
Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix. I think he is honestly looking for scum. He is rereading when appropriate, trying to make valid cases on people, and his responses have obviously been genuine.
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I'll reread ADK next
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Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix.
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
Primarily because of this.
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ADK reread:
first post is voting for Seprix for trying to keep us in RVS
says he doesn't think Melis's reads were contrived
votes Teproc because of his townread on him
says it isn't risky to vote someone who looks like they have reads early
says again that he is suspicious of townreads on him from others early on
when asked which of the reads didn't look contrived, he responded "I mostly like that you were voting for Awaclus"
Says that is because of Awa's meta
wants the Seprix/Melis fight to continue
Says there is scum motivation for what Seprix did in trying to stop people from having reads. I don't agree (as I stated in the Seprix reread) that scum really tries to do this. Maybe in a 9-person game, but much less here.
says his reaction to Seprix's post was honest. I agree that his tone did seem genuine
says that his reasons for voting Seprix seemed fine at the time
says he has changed his read on Seprix and becomes very defensive about it
says that he doesn't agree with the votes on Seprix after all the backlash he got for scum reading him early. This looks like one of two things: a natural progression of a read on someone who had a lot of posts, or scum trying to make it look like a natural progression of a read. I would say it looks more like the former
Overall he seems genuine. I feel like scum!ADK is usually easy to spot later on in the game. I think he is trying to move the gane along so he comes out on the townie side of null. I definitely understand the votes on him though.
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Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix.
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
Primarily because of this.
Ya but when you reread Seprix, it makes a lot of sense why he did that. He liked Melis's defense of himself, which was fairly thorough, so he unvoted and said that he doesn't want to lynch him today. What is wrong with that?
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Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
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Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
Don't worry, he is just overly suspicious of you. Trying to create a case and all
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Hi! Sorry for not posting a lot so far.
Subbed into the mash on mu 2 days ago and it is kinda time consuming. and since this is a 7 day dayphase and mash has 36 hours dayphase, the pressure is a bit higher over there.
Will do some rereading in here now for a while.
I actually have some trouble with this forum in itself because the quotestacks are not well made. Whatever.
If you guys have questions i should be around for a while doing the read.
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Hi! Sorry for not posting a lot so far.
Subbed into the mash on mu 2 days ago and it is kinda time consuming. and since this is a 7 day dayphase and mash has 36 hours dayphase, the pressure is a bit higher over there.
Will do some rereading in here now for a while.
I actually have some trouble with this forum in itself because the quotestacks are not well made. Whatever.
If you guys have questions i should be around for a while doing the read.
Your current level of activity is pretty much par for the course on f.ds though, so no need to apologize.
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really? the game started going kinda strong .. well at least the rvs part.
I want to say i think roadrunner is my earliest townread of the rvs stage, IF he is a new player. Rly depends a bit on his meta and people might need to confirm or deny that read for me.
I thought his reaction to claim scum "hi everyone" after not doing so from the get go was slightly ballsy play. I got into the game thinking he is a new player, if that is the case then i think it is towny.
oh and while at it :
#218 - liopoil says we should not misslynch roadrunner today, do you mind explaining your townread at that point on him?
Moving on ...
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RR isn't really that new. He has played more than 5 games
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Vote Count 1.3
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Melisandre (1): Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (4): Awaclus, silverspawn, liopoil, 2.71828.....
Roadrunner7671 (2): Jan, Melisandre
Teproc (1): A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (3): fontisian, Seprix, J Reggie
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Teproc
Not Voting (1): Haddock
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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RR isn't really that new. He has played more than 5 games
By my count I have 15. So definitely not a new player.
On an unrelated note, I would lynch ADK over Seprix, but I don't really want to lynch either. I don't have a scum read on anyone at this point. That will hopefully change soon though.
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I want to say i think roadrunner is my earliest townread of the rvs stage, IF he is a new player. Rly depends a bit on his meta and people might need to confirm or deny that read for me.
If I'm a new player won't people be pretty unfamiliar with my meta?
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just checked the pregame again. i thought i remembered him saying he was new and all that. he was only talking about hit meta. misremembered that. (i was right remembering him being afraid of being misslynched)
not that sure on the rr read anymore. still want an answer to why liopoil thought rr is town.
I am curious why both gkrieg and adk think the readslist wasnt too contrived?
I am fine with being spewed town from the get go, but believing Joga who played a single game with me has a solid townread on me after 2 posts of mine?!
Like .. he didnt give 2-3 leans in either direction he gave a fairly hard town and scumread and some leans.
Anyways would like them to talk about that for 30 seconds.
Moving on ...
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Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
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Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
This is the most Hydrad most ever.
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I want to say i think roadrunner is my earliest townread of the rvs stage, IF he is a new player. Rly depends a bit on his meta and people might need to confirm or deny that read for me.
If I'm a new player won't people be pretty unfamiliar with my meta?
They would still now if you have balls or not.
There are people who don't mind claiming scum as either alignment, and there are those who are more carefree as town and more cautious as scum ebcause they want to avoid being scumread.
More something with newer players in my opinion.
So if you are a new player and are not one to play too wacky, then said read would apply.
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*post
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Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
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I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
We're not.
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I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
We're not.
I am!
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Melisandre
Seprix
Silverspawn
Fontisian
Roadrunner
Are the people i read town in this order .. non of them being a really strong townread and the bottom two being very weak leans.
adk
2.71828 (pure gut)
liopoil
being the scum leans for now.
i considered reading gkriegs reads on adk and seprix, but the formating was so bad that i decided to rather carve out my eyeballs with a wooden spoon. it was a fun time!
From now on i will try solving the game while flying blind. you can thank gkrieg for that!
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really? the game started going kinda strong .. well at least the rvs part.
I want to say i think roadrunner is my earliest townread of the rvs stage, IF he is a new player. Rly depends a bit on his meta and people might need to confirm or deny that read for me.
I thought his reaction to claim scum "hi everyone" after not doing so from the get go was slightly ballsy play. I got into the game thinking he is a new player, if that is the case then i think it is towny.
oh and while at it :
#218 - liopoil says we should not misslynch roadrunner today, do you mind explaining your townread at that point on him?
Moving on ...
I did not, in fact, say that I have a townread on him. Mislynching him is a bad idea, but if he's scum then we should lynch him. This is trivially true for every player, but I think we can do it pretty easily for RRR.
In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
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Melisandre
Seprix
Silverspawn
Fontisian
Roadrunner
Are the people i read town in this order .. non of them being a really strong townread and the bottom two being very weak leans.
adk
2.71828 (pure gut)
liopoil
being the scum leans for now.
i considered reading gkriegs reads on adk and seprix, but the formating was so bad that i decided to rather carve out my eyeballs with a wooden spoon. it was a fun time!
From now on i will try solving the game while flying blind. you can thank gkrieg for that!
To be fair, I'm not sure how I would've formatted them any differently. They were just stream of consciousness rereads. I mean I guess I could've double spaced them.
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Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
I think the meta stuff is also kind of important, but can also be something to hide behind. It would be really easy to read your partner as town just because they have a meta of being easy to mislynch. But on the other hand, all of us have played a bunch of games with the same people, so we understand each other's metas pretty well at this point.
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So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
Re: the opinion poll: I found it odd that gkrieg was asked about considering he had made 2 posts at that point.
I also agree that it was weird to put me in a mix of people you could actually already have reads on.
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In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.
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Screw a reads post, instead I'll make several shorter posts.
RRR townread is mostly because of his interactions with Seprix and a gut feeling about meta. Also this:RR in particular I have a townread on based on his latest posts
I'm just playing up my meta for the benefit of those who I've never played with.
feels like a townie post to me.
How he reacts to making hard choices down the road will be much more telling.
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Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
This is a towny post because of the last line. Not interested though, in case it wasn't clear. As far I can see, you don't say why you think I am scum anywhere? Okay. I think you'll figure out that I'm town eventually.
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Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
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Seprix has a new playstyle. I like it, though I have no idea what it means re: his alignment.
J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
More importantly though, Melisandre is getting scummier by the minute. Though... silver, did she/he tend to overreact to pressure in the championship game ? Melisandre was town there right ?
His ADK vote wasn't great but it's not like he would get towncred for sheeping Seprix. That's null for me.
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Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
Now re-evaluating Seprix. Opting to read gkrieg's post rather than carve eyes out.
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Seprix reread:
RVS vote
makes some jokes then asks Awaclus to explain his vote
more jokes, and throws some dominion stuff in there
says that asking Awaclus was worth a shot, and that he doesn't want to put more energy into it
attempts three times to vote for Melis because of his early reads list
says that for WIFOM reasons Melis might open this way as scum
warns about Awaclus
says that he doesn't like the forced reads to get out of RVS
says he wants to vote for Melis twice
says once again that he really doesn't like the reads list of Melis. I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason.
gives some setup talk where he says we are either multiball, or a 4-person scum team. I think Mistborn Mafia was this size and it had a 5-person mafia team, but we kept thinking it was multiball. I wouldn't discount a large mafia team until we see otherwise.
says he thinks RVS is over
claims an ADK/Melis scum team but then doesn't want to express a case
Has a post where he says that he townreads Melis because he is too scummy to be scum. There is also some other great content in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603318;topic=14936.0;last_msg=603541)
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
votes ADK because ADK says that there is a scum motivation for making someone defensive. I agree with Seprix here. I don't think there is a scum motivation for attacking someone. Usually you want to hide in the shadows while two other townies fight. Especially in a game this large where you will have townies fight.
points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic
Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix. I think he is honestly looking for scum. He is rereading when appropriate, trying to make valid cases on people, and his responses have obviously been genuine.
Thanks for this post. If t stands for towny, n stands for null, s stands for scum, then I find each of the lines to be respectively: nnstnnnstsnntssss. Still a scum lean for me. However, it is becoming more clear to me that he could have genuinely believed in the last four posts listed here. Yay hedging.
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Town leans:
RRR (already explained)
J Reggie (towny reaction to early attention)
Jan (Generally sensible posts, and matches championship game)
ADK (Unfazed by votes that weren't great imo. self-righteous)
Awaclus (Classic Awaclus)
Scum leans:
Seprix (Already explained)
fortisian (Not actually saying much)
Melisandre (Weird reaction to being pressured, I found. This is joga, right?)
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Oh, and town vibes on ss, but I seem to always read him this way, so idk.
Not sorry for making 8 posts in a row. I think I'm done for now though. My reads are frustratingly weak right now, so I'll stay not voting.
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
Man, why are you equating calling someone British with insulting them? :(
Oh, was that it? I just thought he was British because he spelled "defense" as "defence". I threw that random bit in because it's Sherlock Mafia, and well, it's cute and thematic, and hey, I was right!
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Jan, work's going great. Thanks for asking. Also, I believe you are the copycat. Mreow.
Leopoil's Melisandre burn was spot on. I also dig his Teoroc vote and unvote.
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As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
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Look, kid. Why would i ask you how your work is doing in a game where your next reaction might be 1 day away, when i am most likely talking to you on skype within the next 4-7 hours?
Oh btw how is work? Boobs doing well? are the 1 dollar notes coming?
The thing is you liked his burn, but why do you think it was towny?
The vote and unvote happend after your read on him, so that doesn't count. (i appreciate the thought nonetheless)
I like that liopoil reads me town but disagrees with all my townreads but one.
Liopoil - you decided to read 2 ppl you have not play with as scum. What about the people you played with?
A lot of people have been talking about meta reads and all that. do you do metareads or are you ignoring meta normally?
Like 2 ppl noone knows (as in first game here) as scum and the 1 person that people already said is not playing close to their meta. Those are weak ass scumreads.
Did you feel forced to give scumreads and those are just the easiest to give?
What do you think about the content that fonti gave? a lot of people have done mostly rvs realted things, she skipped that by entering the thread late. do you mind talking about the content she gave/pushed at the time?
Could you explain how joga/meli reacted weird and what about it was scummy/not towny?
Cheerio!
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I've landed as town on Melisandre, just because I think town is much more likely to do the reaction-fishing "gotcha" thing. Also probably town on Jan, I might sheep him on liopoil.
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Alright, liopoil has been posting like crazy.
Not interested though, in case it wasn't clear. As far I can see, you don't say why you think I am scum anywhere? Okay. I think you'll figure out that I'm town eventually.
This sounds a little cryptic, but I will try to not read into that.
Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
Explain the vote? Then you unvote. Explain that too?
Thanks for this post. If t stands for towny, n stands for null, s stands for scum, then I find each of the lines to be respectively: nnstnnnstsnntssss. Still a scum lean for me. However, it is becoming more clear to me that he could have genuinely believed in the last four posts listed here. Yay hedging.
This is worse than any formatting Gkreig did, and his formatting wasn't even bad. It's probably a headache on a small phone screen though. Anyways, I guess I'll reformat lioloil's thing so I know what he's thinking about:
Seprix reread:
RVS vote N
makes some jokes then asks Awaclus to explain his vote N
more jokes, and throws some dominion stuff in there S
says that asking Awaclus was worth a shot, and that he doesn't want to put more energy into it T
attempts three times to vote for Melis because of his early reads list N
says that for WIFOM reasons Melis might open this way as scum N
warns about Awaclus N
says that he doesn't like the forced reads to get out of RVS S
says he wants to vote for Melis twice T
says once again that he really doesn't like the reads list of Melis. I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason. S
gives some setup talk where he says we are either multiball, or a 4-person scum team. I think Mistborn Mafia was this size and it had a 5-person mafia team, but we kept thinking it was multiball. I wouldn't discount a large mafia team until we see otherwise. N
says he thinks RVS is over N
claims an ADK/Melis scum team but then doesn't want to express a case T
Has a post where he says that he townreads Melis because he is too scummy to be scum. There is also some other great content in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603318;topic=14936.0;last_msg=603541) S
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass S
votes ADK because ADK says that there is a scum motivation for making someone defensive. I agree with Seprix here. I don't think there is a scum motivation for attacking someone. Usually you want to hide in the shadows while two other townies fight. Especially in a game this large where you will have townies fight. S
points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic S
nnstnnnstsnntssss
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So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
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Melisandre, I can point you to a few games where I got early pressure, both as town and as scum, if you're interested.
Well some of these are a lot older than I thought.
Games where I got early pressure as Town:
Newbie 1680 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=65071)
M46 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11309.0)
M45 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11240.0)
One of my recent scum games, where I got lynched Day One:
M77 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14803.0)
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As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
Let's do the test!
Hey friends of the meta-verse!
Does gkrieg post in this style regardless of alignment, is it a town thing or just a new thing that you rarely see done by him regardless of alignment?
asking for a friend.
I mean a mean person would say that most of those post is rephrasing other peoples post without actually pushing new content in them.
(3 lines with addional content - 1 of them about mechanics, 1 about general mafia playstyles and 1 about the person he was reading at the time)
His conclusion is ok.
Talking about gkrieg :
"I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason."
you said earlier you believed the list could have been real as well as the content. or rather that it wasnt "too contrived".
you sadly didnt react to my question about said list.
Why did you think the list might have been genuine?
Which reads were you able to comprehend or share at the time?
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@jan It's something I've seen him do before, I don't think it's alignment indicative. That said I don't particularly like what I've seen of gkrieg. Would be on my "could lynch" list.
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So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
Wait you went out of your conversation with melisandre saying you would prefer not to lynch him today, right?
I mean the gameday is still going for another 4-5 days or something so we have all the time in the world.
But why did liopoils analysis of gkriegs summary of your posts on melis play change your mind?
Could you try and use words with 4 or less characters, i am afraid otherwise i won't be able to follow you.
Like you give someone a day pass for reasons and a soon someone else wants to lynch said person you go back and say - "yes, we can!".
This is not 2008. this is the time to make dominion strategy great again. and you are somewhere not caring about anything but looking good?
If you want to look good. Buy a new wig
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@jan It's something I've seen him do before, I don't think it's alignment indicative. That said I don't particularly like what I've seen of gkrieg. Would be on my "could lynch" list.
Aw.
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So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
Wait you went out of your conversation with melisandre saying you would prefer not to lynch him today, right?
I mean the gameday is still going for another 4-5 days or something so we have all the time in the world.
But why did liopoils analysis of gkriegs summary of your posts on melis play change your mind?
Could you try and use words with 4 or less characters, i am afraid otherwise i won't be able to follow you.
Like you give someone a day pass for reasons and a soon someone else wants to lynch said person you go back and say - "yes, we can!".
This is not 2008. this is the time to make dominion strategy great again. and you are somewhere not caring about anything but looking good?
If you want to look good. Buy a new wig
Nice political references. I guess you think I'm the Trump of f.ds. You are wrong. I am the Ralph Nader of f.ds, because voting for me is a waste of time.
Yes, I gave him a pass. Liopoil's reads did not change my mind at all. I am only okay with the lynch. It is still too early to formulate a 'no lynch' list for me. As you said before, we have plenty of time. D1 lynch is overrated, and often done more for information than anything else.
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@Seprix Yeah, all three things you quoted were meant to be cryptic. Not sure why you quoted the first, scummy thing to do really. The Teproc thing was because I said way early that the next person to vote for J Reggie would be scum, and that was Teproc. I would have had a legitamite scumread on anyone who voted J Reggie shortly after, but enough time passed that for Teproc it's null. The nts thing wasn't intended to be convenient for a reader; it was mostly just for myself, but okay.
@Jan the fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything, and that continued even further now. Why? I'm not that persuasive.
I read silver's championship game so I have a bit of meta on you and meli. Meli's way of defending himself is far different from there. But I don't rely on meta that much, mostly just a check on what I'd otherwise think. My scumread on Seprix would be much stronger if it weren't Seprix, for example.
Why should the fact that I disagree with you affect my read on your alignment?
I did not feel pressured to add more scumreads, in fact, I added in Awaclus afterwards because the ratio was a bit weird. Awaclus is the weakest read. Apart from that, the townreads are stronger than the scumreads, naturally.
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Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
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Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
Is this a metaphor?
Jan has a weird habit of slightly mis-interpretting posts and then putting words in people's mouths. Dunno what to make of that, but whatever townread I had is waning.
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Suddenly this game became confusing.
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Suddenly this game became confusing.
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Games where I got early pressure as Town: [...]
Two of those are before I began playing and one is offsite. That might explain why I thought you never got early pressure.
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Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
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Games where I got early pressure as Town: [...]
Two of those are before I began playing and one is offsite. That might explain why I thought you never got early pressure.
I think they also stand larger in my own mind than in other people's. But the point is, it's happened, and maybe Melis will get something illuminating out of it.
It's difficult to form reads with this many damn people. Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?
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Also, I believe you are the copycat. Mreow.
I don't get it
Leopoil's Melisandre burn was spot on. I also dig his Teoroc vote and unvote.
It's liopoil. or liopoil, if spelled backwards.
Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
is voting for JReggie claiming scum?
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Hydrad seems much less active than usual. Like he's usually acti-lurking but this is just lurking. It's unusual so potentially a scumtell?
vote: Hydrad
fontisian and jan seem to be doing their own weird thing, I assume I'm not supposed to understand it.
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It's difficult to form reads with this many damn people. Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?
He has two (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603429#msg603429) posts. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603619#msg603619) One was his typical catch-up post. Then the second one was what I called the most Hydrad post ever. It's super scummy, blatantly buddying the guy who is attacking him, and basically doing exactly what he has just been accused of.
All in all, think we can safely say that he has not been murdered and replaced by another person.
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I assume I'm not supposed to understand it.
it's funny because... erm nvm.
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I feel like there was once stuff happening in this game and I had reads and now i completely lost track of what that was. I need to do some sort of reread.
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fontisian and jan seem to be doing their own weird thing, I assume I'm not supposed to understand it.
what didn't you understand when i was questioning people about their life choices?
I will agree that the last bit looks more cryptic than it really is, but outside of that i did mostly pick words for common folk.
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Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.
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vote: Jan
Maybe it's a scum read. Maybe it's omgus. Maybe it's Maybeline. Idk but this feels like the right vote.
So much this:
I feel like there was once stuff happening in this game and I had reads and now i completely lost track of what that was. I need to do some sort of reread.
Also, this is the internet and I can't even see you, but I want to be respectful of you so it'd be nice if people responded saying what their pronouns are. I want to refer to you how you want to be referred to. For those of you who don't reply I will try to use neutral pronouns like they.
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Mmm I need to be less literal. I think on average town waffles more than scum, scum tries to look super certain of their reads.
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Also, this is the internet and I can't even see you, but I want to be respectful of you so it'd be nice if people responded saying what their pronouns are.
I am a purple pony princess...
Ahm. he.
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'He' over here. But 'he' and 'RR' have the same number of letters, and 'RR' might actually be easier to type. But whatever floats your boat. :)
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I think you are all missing the true meaning of the waffle metaphor. The waffle is fortisian's buddying, if I'm not mistaken.
Unrelated, I think that the alignment tell of waffling is dependent on the context. Does scum have something to gain by doing it?
Also, I believe you are the copycat. Mreow.
I don't get it
Leopoil's Melisandre burn was spot on. I also dig his Teoroc vote and unvote.
It's liopoil. or liopoil, if spelled backwards.
Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
is voting for JReggie claiming scum?
The thing about my username is that i and l look the same so people always think it's liopoli the first time. Leopoil at least keeps the right pronounciation. Also, isn't it fun to type? Yes, it objectively is, assuming qwerty.
Yes, remember my post about the next person who votes J Reggie and you responded 'I doubt it'? Well if Teproc didn't forget about my post than he claimed scum. The problem is it had been too long so he is likely just town who forgot.
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Ok, I posted something hours ago and now it is gone. This is upsetting.
Waffle refers to waffling. As in, Seprix waffled on Melisandre, which is an alright thing to do, and Jan went overboard attacking it.
Liopoil: This probably won't help you, but your reaction to my townread made it stronger. That, by the by, is an example of liking something, but not agreeing with. As for your name, I'll blame my phone's autocorrect.
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Waffle refers to waffling. As in, Seprix waffled on Melisandre, which is an alright thing to do, and Jan went overboard attacking it.
Why do you think i went overboard?
As in why was it too much? Do you think my intention was to bury him with it or get a reaction out of it?
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Yes.
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Yes.
Not a valid answer. try again.
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No.
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No.
I hope to know what you are doing, but nonetheless it is annoying.
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This game is moving way to fast.
I don't even have a scum read yet. I'm still in RVS.
But who am I towny on?
Seprix
ADK
Liopoil
Faust?
Jan??
Null on pretty much everyone.
Maybe scummy on Fontisian? But not to a point where I can get a case.
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This game is moving way to fast.
I don't even have a scum read yet. I'm still in RVS.
But who am I towny on?
Seprix
ADK
Liopoil
Faust?
Jan??
Null on pretty much everyone.
Maybe scummy on Fontisian? But not to a point where I can get a case.
you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
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This game is moving way to fast.
I don't even have a scum read yet. I'm still in RVS.
But who am I towny on?
Seprix
ADK
Liopoil
Faust?
Jan??
Null on pretty much everyone.
Maybe scummy on Fontisian? But not to a point where I can get a case.
you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I thought he was gonna out the Mafia...
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you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
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No.
I hope to know what you are doing, but nonetheless it is annoying.
It felt like too much, and I don't know why it felt that way.
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I figured it out. Go me.
It's a doing stuff thing. There's no reason to accuse Seprix of things he didn't do, because he knows he didn't do them. It allows him to react more genuinely than he would if he were mafia because he knows he's in the right regardless of his alignment. So, why bother attacking a bunch of things that didn't happen when you could just explain your problem with his fencesit and get him to explain. Or talk about the fuckton of reads he has commited too. Or, or, realize that people are allowed to have null reads, there are other scummy things in the game to pursue, and it'd be pretty weird for someone to have no null reads now anyway.
So, Jan, from your perspective there's:
Mafia reasoning: Because it looks towny to do things, so you feel the need to force more content.
Town reasoning: something something reaction test or a mininterpretation of the original Seprix post.
You may now confess your sins.
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Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
I did ?
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As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
Let's do the test!
Hey friends of the meta-verse!
Does gkrieg post in this style regardless of alignment, is it a town thing or just a new thing that you rarely see done by him regardless of alignment?
asking for a friend.
Post by post rereads in that style is something he does regardless of alignment, yes.
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@Seprix Yeah, all three things you quoted were meant to be cryptic. Not sure why you quoted the first, scummy thing to do really. The Teproc thing was because I said way early that the next person to vote for J Reggie would be scum, and that was Teproc. I would have had a legitamite scumread on anyone who voted J Reggie shortly after, but enough time passed that for Teproc it's null. The nts thing wasn't intended to be convenient for a reader; it was mostly just for myself, but okay.
I see. I had forgotten about that.
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Let's go with option a. pretty sure i just wanted to do things!
I don't think you yourself believe in what you are spouting there dear. Back to the drawing board and try again.
But let us not be hasty. Take your wordsalad, straighten it up and see if we get anything useful.
It's a doing stuff thing. There's no reason to accuse Seprix of things he didn't do, because he knows he didn't do them.
Reality check for a moment, what did i say to him, again? (will cut some parts of the quote to shorten it down.)
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
Wait you went out of your conversation with melisandre saying you would prefer not to lynch him today, right?
But why did liopoils analysis of gkriegs summary of your posts on melis play change your mind?
Like you give someone a day pass for reasons and a soon someone else wants to lynch said person you go back and say - "yes, we can!".
So I accused him of something he did do. He changed his mind. And I wanted to know why, because for me nothing that melisandre himself did between both moments should have changed his mind.
The people talking about their interactions didn't bring anything strong up either. at least not that i could see/remember.
It allows him to react more genuinely than he would if he were mafia because he knows he's in the right regardless of his alignment. So, why bother attacking a bunch of things that didn't happen when you could just explain your problem with his fencesit and get him to explain. Or talk about the fuckton of reads he has commited too. Or, or, realize that people are allowed to have null reads, there are other scummy things in the game to pursue, and it'd be pretty weird for someone to have no null reads now anyway.
And then you go on and talk some crap that sadly does not make a lot of sense anymore. Because i attacked something that happened and you are just not able to read. sad life.
Like I don't disagree that attacking someone when you already know the answer is pointless. But he said :
I forgot to unvote. Melis is playing well enough to keep alive for a day at least.
Just to then agree with someone else that wants to lynch melisandre.
There is an obvious change in his read without anything happening in thread that would be indicative to change said read. So yes i will question him for that.
Do you disagree that someone possibly slipping up and having two different reads on the same person is more of a scumtell than a towntell?
Do you disagree with following up on those to get some sort of reaction is the right thing to do? (you know, he might panic for slipping, or react calm, or have a good reason, only one way to find out)
You can argue about my wording and that i was having fun instead of shorten my question to 1 sentence, but arguing about my question is questionable in itself.
Maybe i am not getting what you are getting at .. but i might copy the copycat for once :
So, Fontisian, from your perspective there's:
Mafia reasoning: Because it looks towny to do things, so you feel the need to force more content.
Town reasoning: something something reaction test or a misinterpretation of the original Jan post.
You may now confess your sins.
Look how easy this is!
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I like this fontisian guy. I'd like him even more if he had some personal text or signature so I could Ctrl+F for his posts (same for Jan). Pretty please ?
Do you disagree that someone possibly slipping up and having two different reads on the same person is more of a scumtell than a towntell?
Do you disagree with following up on those to get some sort of reaction is the right thing to do? (you know, he might panic for slipping, or react calm, or have a good reason, only one way to find out)
I certainly disagree with that first part. Scum is generally moreconherent and consistent in their reads than town : town isn't afraid of changing their minds because they know they're being sincere, whereas scum is perpetually afraid of it knowing unnatural because their reads are fabricated in nature.
I don't disagree about the second part though.
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I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
See, this is what a scum read looks like. JR is concerned that the first thing he said wasn't clear enough, so he completes it to be extra clear and to make sure that everyone sees how much he's contributing to the game by stating clear reads. Town rarely thinkgs like that : town assumes you got it until you don't.
Stray thoughts :
Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
RR slightly townie (as much as it's possible for me to read him).
liopoil townie.
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Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
Which is not a scum trait for me.
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Debatable at the very least. I'll say that the more I forgetabout you, the more likely yo are to be scum, generally.
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I can agree to the JR thing. His quote reads like "this are two towns fighting".
The point i wanted to make before was that scum like to be opportunistic. If he believes that melisandre is useful because he believes him to be a strong enough player, then he should not turn around agreeing to a possible lynch, unless something new develops.
changing your mind is a thing, everyone does it, but you have to question the motive/mindset. And his change there looked opportunistic at the time.
His reaction was pretty calm and collected and felt ok.
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Debatable at the very least. I'll say that the more I forgetabout you, the more likely yo are to be scum, generally.
For reference, here are my most recent scum games:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14803.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14607.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14691.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13954.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14493.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13768.0;all
I don't think I was particularly reserved in any of them.
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Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
Don't worry, he is just overly suspicious of you. Trying to create a case and all
Not this again, e. Seriously.
Awa hadn't posted between my two posts, which given the amount of other activity felt like a long time. I didn't mean anything by it.
Anyhoo. SS is being really super-duper helpful. And I'm not sure what to make of it. He will usually offer good helpful commentary and useful stuff piecewise, but this feels slightly too much, maybe? Like it's slightly forced?
Also, obligatory "silver-hasn't-tunneled-anyone-yet-must-be-scum".
Does gkrieg usually do stream-of-consciousness rereads? I probably give mild town points there either way, such things can be hard to emulate. (OK, so prepost, apparently the answer is that he does do that.)
In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.
This. So much of this. I swear I used to have such a good handle on him, and now I'm super paranoid. Still think he seems towny so far this game though.
Hydrad seems much less active than usual. Like he's usually acti-lurking but this is just lurking. It's unusual so potentially a scumtell?
vote: Hydrad
WEEEAAAK. I don't think this is unusual for Hydrad whatsoever. Also, anyone with mildly lurky metas is gonna look super extra lurky D1 and D2 this game because of player numbers.
Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.
This does not mesh at all with what I know about your reads in previous games. You have called me scummy for my D1 hedging in, like, every game we've ever been in together. At least, someone has, and I think it has often been you...
Debatable at the very least. I'll say that the more I forgetabout you, the more likely yo are to be scum, generally.
This is an interesting hypothesis, and probably has merit. Awa's scum-meta-defense is weak because it doesn't take into account (for contrast) how much of a royal pain in the derriere he can be as town.
Seprix perhaps looking less scummy than he did.
Still think a vote: J Reggie looks warranted.
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Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.
This does not mesh at all with what I know about your reads in previous games. You have called me scummy for my D1 hedging in, like, every game we've ever been in together. At least, someone has, and I think it has often been you...
Although actually now I think about it the main one I'm remembering is the game that just finished, and you were scum. So, yeah, OK. (#NotBitter - Still amazed I weaseled out of the lynch that game)
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gkrieg doing streams of consciousness rereads definitely does not warrant town points, he did that as scum in the last game I played in, whatever it was called. I think he does it as town too though.
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So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy
Yes, but was the thought-process behind "ADK looked scummy" - pick out the posts you personally thought looked scum-indicative.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
What does this part mean?
That's not going to happen until I have better reads to be expressive about.
Ok, that is fair.
@Haddock - when you have time add the supporting reasons to your early reads:
"RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves"
"J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote"
Not a fan of the ADK wagon. I always think Seprix is scummy.
Reasons please.
Also, scumread on Melis for changing his avatar already.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/rngE31q0PTHbO/giphy.gif)
Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix. I think he is honestly looking for scum. He is rereading when appropriate, trying to make valid cases on people, and his responses have obviously been genuine.
I agree Seprix has been keeping things moving [i.e the pro-active vibe, not waiting-for-things-to-happen]
Overall he seems genuine. I feel like scum!ADK is usually easy to spot later on in the game. I think he is trying to move the gane along so he comes out on the townie side of null. I definitely understand the votes on him though.
I came to a similar conclusion after re-reading his posts [most of his posts kept pinging 'this-does-not-make-sense'; but I then concluded this is ADK just speaking his mind. However, there is a part-appeasement/back-down edge to his posts that keep him a slight worry.]
What is wrong with that?
This remark stood out for me. [Is gkrieg13 telling off silverspawn for not seeing it the way he see's it...? ???]
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
When are you going to start playing?
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I thought his reaction to claim scum "hi everyone" after not doing so from the get go was slightly ballsy play. I got into the game thinking he is a new player, if that is the case then i think it is towny.
I was null on that. Just as easily playful-scum as playful town.
oh and while at it :
#218 - liopoil says we should not misslynch roadrunner today, do you mind explaining your townread at that point on him?
This is a good spot. [Note: need to re-read post for context]
uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment..
If I felt like this I would be poking everyone. I do not see that from you.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
Based on gut/anything I've posted?
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
Jan goes straight for the jugular. I think I like this.
As far I can see, you don't say why you think I am scum anywhere?
I think it goes like... "why did you say a RR lynch is a miss-lynch: do you know he is town?".
@liopoil, please talk me through these 3 posts:
Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
[Why the vote?]
His ADK vote wasn't great but it's not like he would get towncred for sheeping Seprix. That's null for me.
[What is your read of Seprix?]
Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
[What scum-claim, and why the quick unvote?]
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Town leans:
RRR (already explained)
J Reggie (towny reaction to early attention)
Jan (Generally sensible posts, and matches championship game)
ADK (Unfazed by votes that weren't great imo. self-righteous)
Awaclus (Classic Awaclus)
Scum leans:
Seprix (Already explained)
fortisian (Not actually saying much)
Melisandre (Weird reaction to being pressured, I found. This is joga, right?)
Mixed feelings on this reads-list...
-it's meta-heavy so hard to counter
-you have me as a scum lean ;D
- did you fill in the reasons after you posted their name? (i.e "not actually saying much" could be applied to half the player-list)
-I only like your ADK read/reason.
[They are only leans so I do accept they won't have more tangible reasons atm though.]
As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
It was a stream of narrative (null). But I did appreciate his final conclusions (more meat to the info he presented).
Ok, this is Jan's best post so far (Post #455 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603682#msg603682)) - he's knuckling down to the nature of liopoil's reads.
I've landed as town on Melisandre
Come here!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1rQQjM3XCoYBq/giphy.gif)
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch.
Bad post Seprix.
Show me where he "clearly" wanted me lynched.
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I'll take the liopoil thing with me (since he already answered it) : he had declared that the next person to vote for JR would be scum : when I did he voted for me and that's what he's referring to.
FWIW, we're fine with multiposting here, if the multiquoting capabilities of this forum (which are... pretty bad) are annoying you.
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let the reread begin
First conclusion: faust does incorrect grammar in his flavor. In english, you do the comma before the closing parentheses during speech.
Good news guys, I'm actually town here. Please don't hurt my mislynch record.
Thanks.
PPE: :(
This is actually towny because of how much IG cares about not getting mislynched.
IG looks pretty nervous already for RVS...
he does. But that does not make him scummy.
Vote: Seprix
Actual vote by the way.
I like it. Townpoints for Awaclus.
Who is the most likely person to die d1 regardless of their alignment?
Asking for a friend.
What friend?
There is only one true reads list, and then Melisandre makes it. Seprix takes three tries to vote her for it. The lord does not shine his light on him.
Town points for Melisandre, more scum points for Seprix.
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Sure, why not? WIFOM
Bad reason because it can always apply.
Then ADK jumps onto Seprix, but not for a good reason. Interesting.
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
weird reason. not sure if scummy.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
The point was not so much to defend you as to question Seprix authenticity.
{post}
I wish I could vote for you twice.
this is a towny reaction
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
I don't like this. I'm finding ss and ADK scummy. vote: ss
Elaborate?
Sure. So rvs definitely has its purpose. We can't pretend it doesn't exist. And yes, there comes a point where you're definitely out of rvs, but that's not always obvious and sometimes it really is too early to have reads. The case on Teproc also seems forced and, dare I say, opportunistic.
bad, because it doesn't really explain the vote on me.
I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
JReggie is really not looking good. Starting to feel like this is inexperienced!scum!JReggie caught early
[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] :'(
I really like this enhanced usage of formatting. I'll probably start to use that more.
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
vote: JReggie
And I'm floating around because 14 13 of us are still in RVS.
STOP SAYING THAT OR I'LL START TO SMASH THINGS
townread on tone. Even though I disagree with the conclusions.
Seprix, I'm agreeing with your case on ADK. It's basically what I was thinking but couldn't put into words. vote: ADK.
how convenient.
Vote count?
Hmm which position on the wagon would I be? Better ask.
Scummy.
Umm, are there any scum!Seprix games I can look at? Because, well, usually acting different than normal is a red flag. And his posts came off a little like he was artificially picking a fight. Scummy.
What's with the ADK votes?
You shall also be town. It is known.
It is known.
Teproc/Melisandre back and forth. Looks fine.
So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
I'll take some of those scum points back.
Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point.
J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately.
Interesting how different players come to similar conclusions about those guys. A rare phenomenon. I wonder what it means?
Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
It's a pun on the flavor of this game.
Oh, yeah... :-[
I kind of forgot what flavor the game was.
I guess this is a town-slip, maybe not.
It is not remotely a town slip. Flavor is not relevant in this game, so everyone can read it as he likes, regardless of alignment.
Not a huge fan of gkrieg's reads because they include a lot of summarizing and not a lot of interpreting. Easy to fabricate.
really? the game started going kinda strong
Yeah, unusually so. That's nice.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
This post is not only the most Hydrad-post ever, it's also kinda scummy. There's been a lot of stuff happening. Not too hard to have reads.
RRR
Please don't do that. It looks abhorrent. you pronounce him RoadRunner, not RoadRunneRRRRRRRR.
Thanks for this post. If t stands for towny, n stands for null, s stands for scum, then I find each of the lines to be respectively: nnstnnnstsnntssss.
Interesting that you went through the trouble of actually evaluating them. Have further town points.
As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
I don't think that's really stream of consciousness, even if gkrieg said it himself. It's just a post-by-post summary. Stream of consciousness looks like this:
The lady on the hill creates a glorious departure from her everyday, her everyday life.
Constant swelling of the ankles...
A pleasant cry for help...
She began to unfold her story.
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
I just want to lynch someone who isn't me!
Let's do the test!
Hey friends of the meta-verse!
Does gkrieg post in this style regardless of alignment, is it a town thing or just a new thing that you rarely see done by him regardless of alignment?
asking for a friend.
Is this a joke?
I think you are all missing the true meaning of the waffle metaphor. The waffle is fortisian's buddying, if I'm not mistaken.
That makes sense.
Town Reads:
liopoil
fortsian
Awaclus
Scum Reads:
Seprix
JReggie
Jan
Hydrad
with descending confidence. Jan is added because he feels weird this game and he totally did not feel weird in the championship game.
Seprix is slightly worse than JReggie, so back to vote: Seprix
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@Seprix Yeah, all three things you quoted were meant to be cryptic. Not sure why you quoted the first, scummy thing to do really. The Teproc thing was because I said way early that the next person to vote for J Reggie would be scum, and that was Teproc. I would have had a legitamite scumread on anyone who voted J Reggie shortly after, but enough time passed that for Teproc it's null. The nts thing wasn't intended to be convenient for a reader; it was mostly just for myself, but okay.
@Jan the fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything, and that continued even further now. Why? I'm not that persuasive.
I read silver's championship game so I have a bit of meta on you and meli. Meli's way of defending himself is far different from there. But I don't rely on meta that much, mostly just a check on what I'd otherwise think. My scumread on Seprix would be much stronger if it weren't Seprix, for example.
Why should the fact that I disagree with you affect my read on your alignment?
I did not feel pressured to add more scumreads, in fact, I added in Awaclus afterwards because the ratio was a bit weird. Awaclus is the weakest read. Apart from that, the townreads are stronger than the scumreads, naturally.
Bad feels from this post -
You've stated reasons to scum-read Sperix, but are as yet unwilling to pursue/vote there (meta-reasons? I don't believe the sincerity of your reads.)
Your explanation for voting/unvoting Teproc is awkward too.
"fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything"- show me "literally everything"
(Post #459 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603687#msg603687)) - Thanks for this A Drowned Kernel.
He has two (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603429#msg603429) posts. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603619#msg603619) One was his typical catch-up post. Then the second one was what I called the most Hydrad post ever. It's super scummy, blatantly buddying the guy who is attacking him, and basically doing exactly what he has just been accused of.
The end result is Hydrad's not being town-read by me.
2.71828..... - you're like a passenger so far... :(
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Vote count?
Hmm which position on the wagon would I be? Better ask.
Scummy.
Okay, this jumped out at me from the SS novel. Why on earth is asking for a vote count scummy?
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Vote count?
Hmm which position on the wagon would I be? Better ask.
Scummy.
Okay, this jumped out at me from the SS novel. Why on earth is asking for a vote count scummy?
You asked that before you wanted to vote for someone, at a moment where we were nowhere near a lynch. The only motivation for that is to check your wagon position before you vote, something which scum is more concerned with than town.
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So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy
Yes, but was the thought-process behind "ADK looked scummy" - pick out the posts you personally thought looked scum-indicative.
Basically all of the posts where ADK was going after Seprix and defending your fake reads list. I thought it was scummy to stand by those reads, and also look like ADK was trying to keep us out of rvs when we weren't fully out of it yet.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
What does this part mean?
It means that I haven't played or read mafia anywhere but f.ds, and since you've played on a whole bunch of different sites my gut reads of you are probably going to be useless.
Haddock - as far as I can tell, you make a long post and then vote me just because I "look bad". People have been saying I'm scummy. This sort of feels like jumping on a trend without adding anything to it.
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Vote Count 1.4
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Melisandre (1): Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (3): Awaclus, 2.71828....., silverspawn
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (2): Teproc, Haddock
liopoil (1): Jan
Hydrad (1): A Drowned Kernel
Jan (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, liopoil
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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@faust
Unvote: Roadrunner7671
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I thought it was scummy to stand by those reads, and also look like ADK was trying to keep us out of rvs when we weren't fully out of it yet.
This sentence doesn't make sense. Let me rephrase it.
I think ADK was tying to look townie by defending Melisandre's fake reads list and got caught there. I also think that ADK was giving the appearance of keeping us from slipping back into rvs when it wasn't clear if we were out of it yet, at least not to me. Those things are what gave me an initial scum read on ADK.
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@faust
Unvote: Roadrunner7671
Fixed.
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2.71828..... D1 contributions (post RVS)
Humour: (Post #248 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603257#msg603257))
Votes Seprix (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603420#msg603420). No supporting reason posted with vote.
Playful: (Post #422 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603579#msg603579))
Game theory: (Post #479 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603732#msg603732))
Humour: (Post #494 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603778#msg603778))
- no attempt to sort players
- no attempt to push/pressure/poke his scum-reads
- no attempt to challenge/analyse other people's reads
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/11-01-2015/6WLDak.gif)
WIFOM demands we DO NOT lynch this guy today ;D
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gkrieg13 re-read (lot's of town-reads dished out)
gkrieg13's early reads (not much meat on them, but it's early):
I like teproc so far
Also ADK is making the sense. The reads list doesn't seem too contrived to me
Town-meta defends Roadrunner7671 after I made a naked-vote on him (Post #309 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603333#msg603333)).
gkrieg13 then interestingly decides to tackle the two leading wagons (an ISO on both Seprix (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603552#msg603552) and ADK (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603568#msg603568)). Conclusions? Sounds like gkrieg13 is town-reading Seprix and null-town-leaning on ADK. [Many were quick to town-read gkrieg13's efforts here]
(Post #441 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603646#msg603646)) - gkrieg13 warns us about how scum can use meta to hide behind.
I also agree that it was weird to put me in a mix of people you could actually already have reads on.
Town-weird or scummy-weird?
Note for later: gkrieg13 chose not to jump onto either of the leading D1 wagons. His early close-focus has been on two of the most talked-about players so far, I want to see that same close-analysis of other slots. His reads look like they are built on a player's tone ("genuine", "honestly", "he is trying") [instead of saying Player X is town for doing x, y and z]. You have to be very confident/comfortable with a slot to use such tonal analysis.
It will also be interesting if gkrieg13 scum-reads a player on tone (i.e 'not genuine', "dishonest', 'he is not trying'). Once I see gkrieg13 in attack mode I may get a better read of him.
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gkrieg13 re-read (lot's of town-reads dished out)
gkrieg13's early reads (not much meat on them, but it's early):
I like teproc so far
Also ADK is making the sense. The reads list doesn't seem too contrived to me
Town-meta defends Roadrunner7671 after I made a naked-vote on him (Post #309 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603333#msg603333)).
gkrieg13 then interestingly decides to tackle the two leading wagons (an ISO on both Seprix (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603552#msg603552) and ADK (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603568#msg603568)). Conclusions? Sounds like gkrieg13 is town-reading Seprix and null-town-leaning on ADK. [Many were quick to town-read gkrieg13's efforts here]
(Post #441 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603646#msg603646)) - gkrieg13 warns us about how scum can use meta to hide behind.
I also agree that it was weird to put me in a mix of people you could actually already have reads on.
Town-weird or scummy-weird?
Note for later: gkrieg13 chose not to jump onto either of the leading D1 wagons. His early close-focus has been on two of the most talked-about players so far, I want to see that same close-analysis of other slots. His reads look like they are built on a player's tone ("genuine", "honestly", "he is trying") [instead of saying Player X is town for doing x, y and z]. You have to be very confident/comfortable with a slot to use such tonal analysis.
It will also be interesting if gkrieg13 scum-reads a player on tone (i.e 'not genuine', "dishonest', 'he is not trying'). Once I see gkrieg13 in attack mode I may get a better read of him.
I will get to this game later. I haven't seen anything too scummy (I haven't been reading too closely because of V/LA. Had a red eye to Boston so running on little sleep as is).
I think I get more attacky when I'm fairly certain of a read. I think because I feel like people's tone is really all you can go for D1. My reads will become much more thing based when people start doing more things.
I can see there are other questions for me in the thread, but it's hard to answer them all and reread on mobile. However it will be a long time until I can be at a computer again so I'll try to get to those this afternoon
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vote: Seprix
Starting my reread and this stuck out to me. It seems very late to the party when the momentum for the wagon had already left. Also e tends to be more verbose and giving out town reads. I want to vote e, but I already think I am.
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By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
Amended.
Thanks !
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
"accusing people" - only Seprix. But we got to the bottom of his scum-read. Please read Post #301 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603325#msg603325). I could not see the forced-reads/bad-scum angle on Page 1-RVS. If I'd presented the same hollow/unsupported/naked readslist on this page - I think Seprix may have had an argument.
Obviously I read it, I see it as Seprix exaggerating his instinctual read (that your post was scummy) to move the game along, which is townie in my book. What I find amusing/hypocritical is the whole "LAMIS" thing, because that term completely applies to your first few posts.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
What's your take on the ADK-hate since making this early comment?
Do you think the scum-case/suspicion on ADK is reachy/tangible/weak/healthy-paranoia?
Of those, I'll got with "healthy-paranoia". More precisely, "early active player syndrome". Anyone who is active early willreceive suspicion because that's how the game gets started : you can only find people scummy if they post, and moreso if they post things of substance (I'm talking early game here). I don't agree with those people, but their votes seem fine, except for j-reggie, which gets us to...
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
Just re-reading that passage now...
Is this what you meant: 'Scum-J Reggie jumped on the town-players scum-reading town-you'? (Motivation: town-cred?)
Close. While I think ADK is town, I try to avoid arguments that are contingent on multiple alignments. It's more that I think J-Reggie saw a succession of two votes on someone, and did the apparently reasonable thing (I guess you'd call it LAMIST) of siding against them. It's just that his
[/quote]
I like this case from teproc
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@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
Man, why are you equating calling someone British with insulting them? :(
Anyway. Yeah I think I'm caught up now. There's way too much going on in this game for me to follow easily though. Phew.
Thoughts so far:
RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned. Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point.
J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately.
Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like. Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall.
I wanna have a closer look at ADK too, which I'll get to at some point.
I don't like the town read that he gives melis here
Just having the same posting style as someone is not a reason to town read them
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Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
Don't worry, he is just overly suspicious of you. Trying to create a case and all
More bad from e. Lots has happened in the game thus far and this is all he decides to comment on
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Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
I don't know why but there just seems like there is something off in this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it
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Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
I don't like this vote from JReggie
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Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
I don't like this vote from JReggie
Neither of those are my vote...
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Teproc did just claim scum, but only in an RVS way, so I suppose I should Unvote.
Now re-evaluating Seprix. Opting to read gkrieg's post rather than carve eyes out.
Then an unvote very quickly afterwards. Why the unvote lio?
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Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
I don't like this vote from JReggie
Neither of those are my vote...
Sorry. For*
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Also, vote: J Reggie
Vote: Teproc
I don't like this vote from JReggie
Neither of those are my vote...
Sorry. For*
Wow. So totally meant I don't like the Teproc vote from lio
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As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
Let's do the test!
Hey friends of the meta-verse!
Does gkrieg post in this style regardless of alignment, is it a town thing or just a new thing that you rarely see done by him regardless of alignment?
asking for a friend.
I mean a mean person would say that most of those post is rephrasing other peoples post without actually pushing new content in them.
(3 lines with addional content - 1 of them about mechanics, 1 about general mafia playstyles and 1 about the person he was reading at the time)
His conclusion is ok.
Talking about gkrieg :
"I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason."
you said earlier you believed the list could have been real as well as the content. or rather that it wasnt "too contrived".
you sadly didnt react to my question about said list.
Why did you think the list might have been genuine?
Which reads were you able to comprehend or share at the time?
Honestly it was because I didn't read the reads list very carefully and it didn't seem like there were many strong reads.
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@Seprix Yeah, all three things you quoted were meant to be cryptic. Not sure why you quoted the first, scummy thing to do really. The Teproc thing was because I said way early that the next person to vote for J Reggie would be scum, and that was Teproc. I would have had a legitamite scumread on anyone who voted J Reggie shortly after, but enough time passed that for Teproc it's null. The nts thing wasn't intended to be convenient for a reader; it was mostly just for myself, but okay.
@Jan the fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything, and that continued even further now. Why? I'm not that persuasive.
I read silver's championship game so I have a bit of meta on you and meli. Meli's way of defending himself is far different from there. But I don't rely on meta that much, mostly just a check on what I'd otherwise think. My scumread on Seprix would be much stronger if it weren't Seprix, for example.
Why should the fact that I disagree with you affect my read on your alignment?
I did not feel pressured to add more scumreads, in fact, I added in Awaclus afterwards because the ratio was a bit weird. Awaclus is the weakest read. Apart from that, the townreads are stronger than the scumreads, naturally.
This last part reads scummy to me. I don't think you ever need to add reads to your list just because
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@Meli, most of the things you bring up on your quotes of my posts I have already addressed satisfactorily, so I won't again. There were a few which I'll explain more though. Both you and Jan are asking questions in the same odd way, it's puzzling.
@gkrieg also answered that already
Obviously in my reads I filled in the reasons after writing the name, but I thought of the reasons before writing them. Generally I write left-to-right, like most people.
By 'not saying much' I meant that while she is in fact posting, the content is not so original. This has since changed.
In my next post I will show you "literally everything". Spoiler: It's figurative in the sense you probably interpretted it.
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@Seprix Yeah, all three things you quoted were meant to be cryptic. Not sure why you quoted the first, scummy thing to do really. The Teproc thing was because I said way early that the next person to vote for J Reggie would be scum, and that was Teproc. I would have had a legitamite scumread on anyone who voted J Reggie shortly after, but enough time passed that for Teproc it's null. The nts thing wasn't intended to be convenient for a reader; it was mostly just for myself, but okay.
@Jan the fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything, and that continued even further now. Why? I'm not that persuasive.
I read silver's championship game so I have a bit of meta on you and meli. Meli's way of defending himself is far different from there. But I don't rely on meta that much, mostly just a check on what I'd otherwise think. My scumread on Seprix would be much stronger if it weren't Seprix, for example.
Why should the fact that I disagree with you affect my read on your alignment?
I did not feel pressured to add more scumreads, in fact, I added in Awaclus afterwards because the ratio was a bit weird. Awaclus is the weakest read. Apart from that, the townreads are stronger than the scumreads, naturally.
This last part reads scummy to me. I don't think you ever need to add reads to your list just because
It was more: Hmmm, surely I can form more townreads. I proceed to look through the playerlist and yep, Awaclus is towny. Like, sure it wasn't needed, but not something that only scum does.
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@Meli, most of the things you bring up on your quotes of my posts I have already addressed satisfactorily, so I won't again. There were a few which I'll explain more though. Both you and Jan are asking questions in the same odd way, it's puzzling.
@gkrieg also answered that already
Obviously in my reads I filled in the reasons after writing the name, but I thought of the reasons before writing them. Generally I write left-to-right, like most people.
By 'not saying much' I meant that while she is in fact posting, the content is not so original. This has since changed.
In my next post I will show you "literally everything". Spoiler: It's figurative in the sense you probably interpretted it.
Sorry must not have read that part yet
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"Literally" everything:
Leopoil's Melisandre burn was spot on. I also dig his Teoroc vote and unvote.
We haven't seen Haddock, Hydrad, Fontisian or Liopoli yet.
Guys?
Actually, liopoli has been around and made some pretty sweet points earlier.
Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
This post is far more scummy that your reads list, which was slightly towny.
Off-topic: Why is roadrunner RR rather that RRR? I'm going to start calling him RRR, maybe
I have some real townreads on a few players, no real scumreads. That's how I always start the game it seems.
You shall also be town. It is known.
Make of it what you will. Not quite as much as I remembered, but it was at least notable. Now it feels less insightful though.
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I'm here. Having trouble getting into this game. No one really seems to have any thoughts either way on me. Maybe that's partially my fault.
I do know that I don't find gkrieg scummy anymore, so unvote
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
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this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
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Also, this is the internet and I can't even see you, but I want to be respectful of you so it'd be nice if people responded saying what their pronouns are.
He.
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
What does this mean?
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vote: silver. I'm getting them scum vibes.
PPE: 1
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I like teproc and haddock from the last page
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
What does this mean?
I think it's clear I'm town, and I think town!silver is usually better at recognizing town!me.
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
What does this mean?
I think it's clear I'm town, and I think town!silver is usually better at recognizing town!me.
I think it's clear you haven't done anything memorable yet
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
What does this mean?
I think it's clear I'm town, and I think town!silver is usually better at recognizing town!me.
I think it's clear you haven't done anything memorable yet
I get into games by how people read me. There's been a definitive dearth of reads on me this game. So, I'll do stuff so people can actually read me.
Right now, I'm feeling really lost in this game. I've gone back and reread all the stuff I've missed, but it's like it's just going in one ear and out the other.
uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment..
If I felt like this I would be poking everyone. I do not see that from you.
Hmm. Maybe I'll take this advice.
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*pokes silver*
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Having trouble getting into this game.
Yep, know the feeling.
@Haddock - when you have time add the supporting reasons to your early reads:
"RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves"
I probably have to retract the Awaclus read.
His usual town meta from a while back was always fairly brusque, only commenting with random stuff and grabbing onto random stuff for reasons that never make sense to anyone else. This kind of thing is very him:
Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
Which is not a scum trait for me.
I read again, though, and in posts other than the one above, he's just being way too helpful. If not an outright scumtell for Awaclus, it definitely points that way.
I dunno where my townread on him came from. Now I read more carefully, he's not towny at all.
RR on the other hand is towny. These posts are all absolutely classic town!RR as far as I'm concerned. Then again my ability to read RR lately seems to be nonexistent. So take this with a pinch of salt.
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Silverspawn I really hope you're town because you're the scary championship person expert. You have to read them and stop them from lynching me.
I'm thinking one mafia with a SK, but more PRs than expected in a normal game.
And I'm floating around because 14 13 of us are still in RVS.
This game is moving way to fast.
I don't even have a scum read yet. I'm still in RVS.
But who am I towny on?
Seprix
ADK
Liopoil
Faust?
Jan??
Null on pretty much everyone.
Maybe scummy on Fontisian? But not to a point where I can get a case.
I like teproc and haddock from the last page
Huh?
More coming (re J Reggie)
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I liked your posts from the last page but am unable to quote then because I'm on mobile
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
I am town reading you. Not much, but I am.
All I said was that your town slip is not a town slip. Which is obviously true. Do you think it was a townslip? No, you don't, because it wasn't. So what gives?
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
Could it be because it scumreads you?
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Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
I am town reading you. Not much, but I am.
All I said was that your town slip is not a town slip. Which is obviously true. Do you think it was a townslip? No, you don't, because it wasn't. So what gives?
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
Could it be because it scumreads you?
Does it? I think it's the language you use. It sounds more like something the other mafia championship people would say. I'll pick it out of the quote later on. Deleting text out of quotes is hard right now
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I'm so good with words.
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@Haddock - when you have time add the supporting reasons to your early reads:
"J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote"
Haddock - as far as I can tell, you make a long post and then vote me just because I "look bad". People have been saying I'm scummy. This sort of feels like jumping on a trend without adding anything to it.
OK, so list of posts Reggie has made so far that I didn't like, with reasons where possible.
16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
So you're not opening with "hi everybody"? That must mean you're town!
Hi everybody!
Scumslip, Vote: J Reggie
Haha, I was hoping someone would notice that.
I mean, jokes and everything, sure, but the town narrative for this has never been explained. Trying to throw off suspicion about something you said by saying "ha, glad someone noticed the funny joke I made" is scummy.
IG and Awaclus scum team. There, solved.
Proposing scumteams early on is always scummy as far as I'm concerned. It is an attempt to tie together players in people's minds and distort reads.
I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
I never trust a read saying "Oh this clash between these players looks like a townclash to me." Often that's a thing that town says, but it's also a very nice way for scum to look reasonable and helpful and well-reading. Without actually REALLY committing to a fullout townread on either player.
Have you been stalking me?
Haha, no, I think you and Awaclus have the easiest-to-describe metas. I do think you're one of the cooler people on f.ds though.
Buddying.
So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Well, I know I don't like this post. I can't put my finger on why.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
He, etc. Sorry not to reply to this earlier.
I guess this is a town-slip, maybe not. I feel like if you were mafia you would have been more aware of the flavor, and this doesn't seem like a thing you did on purpose. Although there's the whole debate over whether town-slips are real or not, but whatever.
This is like the hedgiest post in the universe. I'm not giving scum points for it, I hedge all the time on D1. But there it is.
vote: Jan
Maybe it's a scum read. Maybe it's omgus. Maybe it's Maybeline. Idk but this feels like the right vote.
If it's a gut read just say it's a gut read. I dunno, man. This jokeish thing is kinda ugly.
OK so it's all a stretch. But my D1 stuff always is, and especially so this game.
I'm sure I could find someone I'd rather vote for. But I'm so tired. Man 16 player mafia is TOUGH. I'll get to it.
PPE - gkrieg. OK, I wasn't sure if you meant liked the post, or "like the idea of voting Haddock or Teproc based on the last page".
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I'm so good with words.
Nah I understand. I guess I missed some of your earlier posts. I don't consider that thing about the flavor town slip even. I kinda forgot the flavor, but maybe I was just slow too :-[
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This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
But it's memorable right?
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I don't consider that thing about the flavor town slip even.
I knew you were sane. Let's be town buddies <3
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
But it's memorable right?
kinda
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Let's go with option a. pretty sure i just wanted to do things!
I don't think you yourself believe in what you are spouting there dear. Back to the drawing board and try again.
But let us not be hasty. Take your wordsalad, straighten it up and see if we get anything useful.
It's a doing stuff thing. There's no reason to accuse Seprix of things he didn't do, because he knows he didn't do them.
Reality check for a moment, what did i say to him, again? (will cut some parts of the quote to shorten it down.)
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
Wait you went out of your conversation with melisandre saying you would prefer not to lynch him today, right?
But why did liopoils analysis of gkriegs summary of your posts on melis play change your mind?
Like you give someone a day pass for reasons and a soon someone else wants to lynch said person you go back and say - "yes, we can!".
So I accused him of something he did do. He changed his mind. And I wanted to know why, because for me nothing that melisandre himself did between both moments should have changed his mind.
The people talking about their interactions didn't bring anything strong up either. at least not that i could see/remember.
It allows him to react more genuinely than he would if he were mafia because he knows he's in the right regardless of his alignment. So, why bother attacking a bunch of things that didn't happen when you could just explain your problem with his fencesit and get him to explain. Or talk about the fuckton of reads he has commited too. Or, or, realize that people are allowed to have null reads, there are other scummy things in the game to pursue, and it'd be pretty weird for someone to have no null reads now anyway.
And then you go on and talk some crap that sadly does not make a lot of sense anymore. Because i attacked something that happened and you are just not able to read. sad life.
Like I don't disagree that attacking someone when you already know the answer is pointless. But he said :
I forgot to unvote. Melis is playing well enough to keep alive for a day at least.
Just to then agree with someone else that wants to lynch melisandre.
There is an obvious change in his read without anything happening in thread that would be indicative to change said read. So yes i will question him for that.
Do you disagree that someone possibly slipping up and having two different reads on the same person is more of a scumtell than a towntell?
Do you disagree with following up on those to get some sort of reaction is the right thing to do? (you know, he might panic for slipping, or react calm, or have a good reason, only one way to find out)
You can argue about my wording and that i was having fun instead of shorten my question to 1 sentence, but arguing about my question is questionable in itself.
Maybe i am not getting what you are getting at .. but i might copy the copycat for once :
So, Fontisian, from your perspective there's:
Mafia reasoning: Because it looks towny to do things, so you feel the need to force more content.
Town reasoning: something something reaction test or a misinterpretation of the original Jan post.
You may now confess your sins.
Look how easy this is!
Except he didn't change his mind at the time you're pointing out. He was clearly calling Melisandre kind of scummy, but not enough to insta lynch, the entire time after unvoting. Your premise is faulty.
I'm a she, by the by.
@silver I have the best words.
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I don't consider that thing about the flavor town slip even.
I knew you were sane. Let's be town buddies <3
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
But it's memorable right?
kinda
Sure <3
We will vanquish all the scums together!
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
I kind of feel the same to some extent, but feel free to clutter the thread.
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
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I'm around, and everyone seems to want to ask me questions, so there's that.
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
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I'm around, and everyone seems to want to ask me questions, so there's that.
How do you read me this game?
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
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Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
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Oh yeah, almost forgot to unvote my town bud.
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
He dodged the question !!!1
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sorry...been really slack here. I still like my seprix vote.
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
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Missed this:
Also, this is the internet and I can't even see you, but I want to be respectful of you so it'd be nice if people responded saying what their pronouns are. I want to refer to you how you want to be referred to. For those of you who don't reply I will try to use neutral pronouns like they.
I'm male but as a Finn, I'm still not used to different genders having different pronouns so you can use whichever pronoun you want.
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I read again, though, and in posts other than the one above, he's just being way too helpful. If not an outright scumtell for Awaclus, it definitely points that way.
This is just bullshit. I'm always helpful as all alignments, as I have had to repeatedly point out as all alignments across multiple different games.
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
I think this is worth pursuing. Vote: Liopoil
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I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
Wow, that's so simple and it totally makes sense. vote: liopoil
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It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!
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I mean I even SAID that you were going to find it scummy. There literally is no towny response to that question, so I said it was stupid. And I knew RR what going to post exactly what he did, that I dodged the question, so I posted again. Like, what the heck am I supposed to do.
The above is defensive, but my original posts were not, they were dismissive of what is a ridiculous way to scumhunt. Let me demonstrate:
Teproc: Are you scum?
Note that no matter what you say I will be finding a way to interpret it as scummy. Because, your whole argument rests on the idea that only scum cares about how they look, which is just false. But my original posts even show that I didn't care that much, since this reaction was soooo predictable. I could have just said 'no' and moved on, but personally I would find that to be a much more scummy response.
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Interesting that RR first had to have someone else agree with him before he voted. And then J Reggie sheeps again, classic. I know it's hard to read people now, but sheesh.
It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!
The reason it's so simple is that it's dumb enough to assume I don't realize how things come off as either alignment. Only reason I posted it anyway was that I figured most people would realize that I know what I'm posting.
inb4 someone points out how defensive I'm being here and votes me just for that. It's a silly case so I'll call it as such.
inb4 someone points out how my first inb4 is clearly self-conscious scum pre-defending himself, and votes me just for that.
inb4 someone points at my second inb4 as... wait. It's not scummy anymore. It's just being aware of how people will read your posts. And wow, both alignments do that!
Also, yeah, two posts again. I'll be posting in doubles or more a lot this game, get used to it. My second post could easily have been appended to the first.
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Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
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vote: liopoil
I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go.
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vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)
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Not buying it.
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Not buying it.
Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
I don't know why you read me as scum every game we play, especially when you've been wrong every time so far.
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
I don't know why you read me as scum every game we play, especially when you've been wrong every time so far.
Wha? I'm sure I was right, like once at least. For sure I was right that you were scum in Flavorless.
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
I don't know why you read me as scum every game we play, especially when you've been wrong every time so far.
Wha? I'm sure I was right, like once at least. For sure I was right that you were scum in Flavorless.
Oh yes, I forgot I was scum in one game. But even so, a stopped watch is going to be right eventually.
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Cause we were partners in flavorless ;D
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Man, so long ago. I forgot all of that.
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wow L-3. At this point I can't even tell how serious you all are
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vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)
Note that you posted after I first made those posts but only found them noteworthy after Teproc pointed out the obvious.
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vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)
Note that you posted after I first made those posts but only found them noteworthy after Teproc pointed out the obvious.
There were other people watching the thread at the time; I'm not sure who.
I just agree with Teproc. Roadrunner did the same thing ftr.
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vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)
Note that you posted after I first made those posts but only found them noteworthy after Teproc pointed out the obvious.
There were other people watching the thread at the time; I'm not sure who.
I just agree with Teproc. Roadrunner did the same thing ftr.
Roadrunner actually started to voice suspicion though. You just ignored it. I'm not sure how you could have read my post and not already realized everything that Teproc said.
Also, have you read my response to Teproc? Ignoring it is just dodging accountability. Same for ADK.
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Yes, IG basically tunneled.
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It's kind of what you said before, and of course I read it. I think pressure on you gives us useful information, like the conversation we're having right now.
I don't always voice all my thoughts; I used to. Sometimes I won't tell people I have a scumread on them to see if they dig themselves deeper.
It's notable that you're trying to deflect suspicion to me now.
PPE: I'm not tunneling liopoil. Nice try though.
And...my internet is being stupid again.
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Interesting that RR first had to have someone else agree with him before he voted. And then J Reggie sheeps again, classic. I know it's hard to read people now, but sheesh.
It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!
The reason it's so simple is that it's dumb enough to assume I don't realize how things come off as either alignment. Only reason I posted it anyway was that I figured most people would realize that I know what I'm posting.
inb4 someone points out how defensive I'm being here and votes me just for that. It's a silly case so I'll call it as such.
inb4 someone points out how my first inb4 is clearly self-conscious scum pre-defending himself, and votes me just for that.
inb4 someone points at my second inb4 as... wait. It's not scummy anymore. It's just being aware of how people will read your posts. And wow, both alignments do that!
Also, yeah, two posts again. I'll be posting in doubles or more a lot this game, get used to it. My second post could easily have been appended to the first.
Yeah this just reads to me like you're super concerned with any possible misconstruance of your posts, even your defense of those earlier posts.
So just because you can see an accusation coming, that makes it invalid?
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It's kind of what you said before, and of course I read it. I think pressure on you gives us useful information, like the conversation we're having right now.
I don't always voice all my thoughts; I used to. Sometimes I won't tell people I have a scumread on them to see if they dig themselves deeper.
It's notable that you're trying to deflect suspicion to me now.
PPE: I'm not tunneling liopoil. Nice try though.
And...my internet is being stupid again.
Leaving a vote on someone other than wanting to lynch them is silly. If you want pressure that can be done with words.
I am not trying to deflect suspicion onto you. You're at null to slight town right now. I just want to hold you accountable for your actions.
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It's kind of what you said before, and of course I read it. I think pressure on you gives us useful information, like the conversation we're having right now.
I don't always voice all my thoughts; I used to. Sometimes I won't tell people I have a scumread on them to see if they dig themselves deeper.
It's notable that you're trying to deflect suspicion to me now.
PPE: I'm not tunneling liopoil. Nice try though.
And...my internet is being stupid again.
Leaving a vote on someone other than wanting to lynch them is silly. If you want pressure that can be done with words.
I am not trying to deflect suspicion onto you. You're at null to slight town right now. I just want to hold you accountable for your actions.
Fair enough. I think votes are a great way to pressure people, but I actually spend a lot of games not voting anyone for a long time.
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What I'm kind of hearing from you is that you thought the way you handled the question would look townie, or at least neutral; I guess people are going to "spin" your answer even if you don't answer it
Now, you're frustrated that your attempt to get out of it in the towniest way is backfiring. I think it's clear you know what you're doing.
Maybe people would suspect you no matter how you dealt with the question.
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Interesting that RR first had to have someone else agree with him before he voted. And then J Reggie sheeps again, classic. I know it's hard to read people now, but sheesh.
It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!
The reason it's so simple is that it's dumb enough to assume I don't realize how things come off as either alignment. Only reason I posted it anyway was that I figured most people would realize that I know what I'm posting.
inb4 someone points out how defensive I'm being here and votes me just for that. It's a silly case so I'll call it as such.
inb4 someone points out how my first inb4 is clearly self-conscious scum pre-defending himself, and votes me just for that.
inb4 someone points at my second inb4 as... wait. It's not scummy anymore. It's just being aware of how people will read your posts. And wow, both alignments do that!
Also, yeah, two posts again. I'll be posting in doubles or more a lot this game, get used to it. My second post could easily have been appended to the first.
Yeah this just reads to me like you're super concerned with any possible misconstruance of your posts, even your defense of those earlier posts.
So just because you can see an accusation coming, that makes it invalid?
Yes, in fact. If a player knows that their posts will by default come off scummy, then they have no reason to make that post as scum anymore. It turns into a ball of WIFOM. Scummy things are when a player does something which scum is more likely to do. But if something is known to be perceived as a thing scum is more likely to say, that makes it less likely for scum to say it. The only way that wasn't straight up terrible play for scum!me is if I thought it could trick you into townreading it for being bad scum play.
I say right in the quoted post that obviously I am being super self-aware of how my posts sound now. That's just not noteworthy
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What I'm kind of hearing from you is that you thought the way you handled the question would look townie, or at least neutral; I guess people are going to "spin" your answer even if you don't answer it
Now, you're frustrated that your attempt to get out of it in the towniest way is backfiring. I think it's clear you know what you're doing.
Maybe people would suspect you no matter how you dealt with the question.
This is what I said in my first post on the topic. Except that I didn't think it would look towny: just make people realize that the question was silly. Maybe people already realized it was silly, so I should have ignored it or whatever.
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What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.
Your responses are making me think it's less likely you're scum, but I'm also afraid that you're really good at fooling people. That itself isn't scummy. I'm just not sure of the key to telling when a good player is scum.
So, I guess I'll unvote.
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What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.
Me neither, it's been a while. Anyway, thanks for thinking it through
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What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.
Me neither, it's been a while. Anyway, thanks for thinking it through
Aah. This makes me nervous. You scare me :P
I'm sure someone will tell me what scum!lio looks like and then maybe I'll have a bit of peace of mind.
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
Good post! Pretty much as good as mint to be honest.
(Translator's note: mint means mine)
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Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.
Good post! Pretty much as good as mint to be honest.
(Translator's note: mint means mine)
You are my honest rolemodel ::)
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Okay? sO, lio is overly self conscious and IG votes, and then lio is being overly self-conscious and IG unvotes.
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Okay? sO, lio is overly self conscious and IG votes, and then lio is being overly self-conscious and IG unvotes.
He won me over, for better or for worse. I don't think his discussion with me was overly self-conscious, his initial defense was.
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So, before I leave for a camping trip:
I disagree with Lio that there's "no towny response" to RR's question, or at least as far as I'm concerned; I would have found a terse "no" or a sarcastic rejoinder at the very least null. But lio went from 0 to super nervous in no time flat. And his complaint about their being "no towny response" is indicative of a scum perspective, because as scum you're super aware of how your posts will be scrutinized.
I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'm fine if we lynch him before I get back.
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Vote Count 1.5
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (2): Awaclus, silverspawn
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (5): Jan, Teproc, Roadrunner7671, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (3): Melisandre, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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So, before I leave for a camping trip:
I disagree with Lio that there's "no towny response" to RR's question, or at least as far as I'm concerned; I would have found a terse "no" or a sarcastic rejoinder at the very least null. But lio went from 0 to super nervous in no time flat. And his complaint about their being "no towny response" is indicative of a scum perspective, because as scum you're super aware of how your posts will be scrutinized.
I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'm fine if we lynch him before I get back.
I wasn't nervous at all. As I've made abundantly clear, being aware of how your posts sound is completely independent of alignment. It's frankly irresponsible not to be.
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Good liopoil scum-narrative presented by Teproc via Roadrunner7671's 'Are you scum?' question:
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
[Nervous town or nervous scum?] Let's find out. Happy to see pressure on the liopoil slot.
Quick look at Awaclus' recent posts:
"What do you mean? You heard from me today. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603576#msg603576)" [Haddock asks where Awaclus was, Awaclus pops in to defend himself]
"Which is not a scum trait for me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603803#msg603803)" [Teproc highlights that Awaclus is playing reserved. I.e against his town-meta. Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]
"For reference, here are my most recent scum games (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603809#msg603809)" [Awaclus then shares links to his recent scum games to defend himself against Teproc's observation]
"This is just bullshit. I'm always helpful as all alignments (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604149#msg604149)" [Haddock accuses Awaclus of being "way too helpful"/i.e an "outright scumtell". Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]
Conclusion
Awaclus is spending way too much effort/time defending his own personal town/scum meta to others. I need to see him sorting the other 15 players. Talking about yourself is pure WIFOM (null) - unless you are challenging your accusers or mis-repping you...? (Haddock/Teproc) - which I don't think you are.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/14xs3v.jpg)
;D
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RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum).
Give me some examples of 'classic day 3 scum-Roadrunner7671'.
I wasn't quite sure what this meant:
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
Can you show me examples of "provocative"-Awaclus (I have seen the opposite so far).
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
This sounds contradictory. Are you town-reading ADK - why would he be an option if so?
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Show me town-"cool".
vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)
Note that you posted after I first made those posts but only found them noteworthy after Teproc pointed out the obvious.
Looking at the votes on you: do you view Ichimaru Gin's vote the most sheepish/opportunistic?
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Scum D3 RR claims a PR that doesn't exist.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
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Good liopoil scum-narrative presented by Teproc via Roadrunner7671's 'Are you scum?' question:
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
[Nervous town or nervous scum?] Let's find out. Happy to see pressure on the liopoil slot.
Quick look at Awaclus' recent posts:
"What do you mean? You heard from me today. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603576#msg603576)" [Haddock asks where Awaclus was, Awaclus pops in to defend himself]
"Which is not a scum trait for me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603803#msg603803)" [Teproc highlights that Awaclus is playing reserved. I.e against his town-meta. Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]
"For reference, here are my most recent scum games (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603809#msg603809)" [Awaclus then shares links to his recent scum games to defend himself against Teproc's observation]
"This is just bullshit. I'm always helpful as all alignments (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604149#msg604149)" [Haddock accuses Awaclus of being "way too helpful"/i.e an "outright scumtell". Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]
Conclusion
Awaclus is spending way too much effort/time defending his own personal town/scum meta to others. I need to see him sorting the other 15 players. Talking about yourself is pure WIFOM (null) - unless you are challenging your accusers or mis-repping you...? (Haddock/Teproc) - which I don't think you are.
Awaclus thinks that town should explain why they're town, rather than players explain why others are or aren't town. Therefore he never gives reasons for votes.
Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM. It helps people make informed decisions about me, which I absolutely want to happen because the correct conclusion (that I'm town) is beneficial for my alignment. That is why whenever someone appears to have misinformation about me (which is apparent from the fact that they're voicing suspicion against me), I make it a top priority to explain to them why they're misinformed. If someone made a case on me and I was unable to completely defend myself against all of the points, that would actually be a good reason to lynch me — not because of the case though (it wouldn't even matter what the case was), but because of my inability to prove it false.
As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):
Seprix
Everyone else
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Classic Awaclus there
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
I've been thinking about this and it's tough. I'll also answer meli's question. The problem is that I think all the votes are bad votes, but that completely different from coming from scum. So:
Jan: Still hasn't specified why he thinks I'm scum, really. His questions were weird and he misconstrues what my posts mean a little. So that's a bit scummy.
Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.
RR: He didn't feel strongly enough to vote until after Teproc agreed, but that's just RR I think. He just wants his question to have meant something. Null to slight town, I guess.
J Reggie: A real cop-out vote, but honestly probably town. Too blatant for new scum, I think.
ADK: Unfortunate he's just going to leave his vote on town without saying anything the rest of the day. At least he tried to consider my reasoning though. Null, I suppose.
Ichi: His vote was the first time it made me think that there was a real chance I get lynched today, so pretty opportunistic. I'd say ADK's was even moreso though. I can understand his thought process the best though because we actually discussed, and well he has since quite sensibly unvoted, which I'm not sure scum would have taken the time to do. He also responded well to my questioning. Townread.
I am slightly biased to be more likely to townread those who seem to have considered more carefully.
Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time.
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Lio, consider this:
I also disliked that series of posts you made, and reread both them and some of your earlier posts before deciding not to pressure you on it. Had I not townread you before then, I likely would have pressured you as Teproc did. This makes him look fairly good in my eyes.
By comparison, I don't quite know what to make of Ichi's vote and unvote. He said he considered voting to be a good form of pressure, but allowed your opinion on the matter (which is biased by the large wagon on you) to override his own. I don't like that he isn't sticking by his beliefs or, at least, explaining his change of heart. Further, the unvote allows him to look good if you're lynched afterwards and flip town.
Why exactly did you call ADK's vote "unfortunate." That implies he's town, does it not?
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
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ADK's vote is unfortunate because it makes it hard to hold him accountable for voting for town.
Interesting point on Teproc. I'm still waiting to reserve final judgement until he responds to my later posts.
Well, from my perspective I saw that Ichi thought it through and made the right choice. As scum, he also greatly reduced the chance I am mislynched by unvoting. I also thought he explained himself plenty.
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Clarification: I didn't see the case until Teproc pointed it out. It wasn't me 'refusing to be the first vote.' When Teproc pointed it out I was like 'oh yeah, cool.' So I voted.
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my mistake!
deep down hidden between possible roles in the other thread i found the answer that scum normally only have nightchat.
That might actually be coaching to make him give a good answer.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
I don't think this is even given information, but my guess is that the default is no daychat. Could be wrong though. Anyway, I on principle never consider scumteams until a scum is dead or lylo, and suggest others do the same.
Clarification: I didn't see the case until Teproc pointed it out. It wasn't me 'refusing to be the first vote.' When Teproc pointed it out I was like 'oh yeah, cool.' So I voted.
You said that I dodged the question. This is essentially what Teproc said. What didn't you realize I did that was so scummy? And why do you still consider it scummy?
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
I don't think this is even given information, but my guess is that the default is no daychat. Could be wrong though. Anyway, I on principle never consider scumteams until a scum is dead or lylo, and suggest others do the same.
Clarification: I didn't see the case until Teproc pointed it out. It wasn't me 'refusing to be the first vote.' When Teproc pointed it out I was like 'oh yeah, cool.' So I voted.
You said that I dodged the question. This is essentially what Teproc said. What didn't you realize I did that was so scummy? And why do you still consider it scummy?
I just figured 'whatever, he can reply whatever he wants, it's just a prank.'
Then Teproc was all like 'but he's taking this prank too seriously!'
And I was like 'You're right! Let's lynch him! That'll be a good prank!'
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People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
Town also benefits from hearing people's reads.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
Town also benefits from hearing people's reads.
How?
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
Town also benefits from hearing people's reads.
How?
It helps us evaluate and form our own reads? That's how mafia works.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
Town also benefits from hearing people's reads.
How?
It helps us evaluate and form our own reads? That's how mafia works.
They can do that with stuff besides reads. Like someone getting all tense after being asked if they're scum.
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Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
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Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now.
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How new and good is J Reggie as scum?
This is the stupidest read, but my gut told me he is town because
It helps us evaluate and form our own reads? That's how mafia works.
this is the worst gutread, but i think this wording here is so fucking town.
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spending 20 minutes between writing the first half, then being busy and then writing the 2nd half and posting without rereading.
I don't think 2x gut is needed to bring my point across.
Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now.
Explain why you are saying this.
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my mistake!
deep down hidden between possible roles in the other thread i found the answer that scum normally only have nightchat.
That might actually be coaching to make him give a good answer.
Because trying to get actual analysis is coaching. Right.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
Town also benefits from hearing people's reads.
How?
It helps us evaluate and form our own reads? That's how mafia works.
They can do that with stuff besides reads. Like someone getting all tense after being asked if they're scum.
Wut.
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my mistake!
deep down hidden between possible roles in the other thread i found the answer that scum normally only have nightchat.
That might actually be coaching to make him give a good answer.
Because trying to get actual analysis is coaching. Right.
normally you would look at a players reaction and read them on that.
not give them an easy out to give a somewhat towny reaction by telling them to analyze their vote.
Like .. i think you would wait to see how reacts under pressure instead of giving him a hand.
Esp when you disliked his initial reaction.
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He already reacted to pressure. You'll notice my questions were asked a day the whole thing went down. I'm trying to move past the "you're scum" "no I'm not stage." Why aren't you?
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He already reacted to pressure. You'll notice my questions were asked a day the whole thing went down. I'm trying to move past the "you're scum" "no I'm not stage." Why aren't you?
Why would you say that i am not?
What did i do this game that would make you assume that i am not trying to push information and reactions in the thread?
Almost everything I did so far had a purpose and you should see that.
You might disagree with my methods/phrasing etc, but you should realize that what you are saying there is not true.
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Really? Because all I see are joke questions these guys won't get and bad attempts at undermining me.
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Really? Because all I see are joke questions these guys won't get and bad attempts at undermining me.
The same way you undermined me earlier?
Like I am saying that you are possible partners with that guy for that question, that doesn't mean you can't continue your game, can you?
People can make up their mind about that. You know i give reads like that more often than not lately so a read like that should not surprise you at all.
I don't think you actually react this way as town. This reaction is over the top and misrepresenting what i have done.
You could complain that I am not as active as I would be in other games we played, but you cannot say that I didn't try to push people into reactions/content.
Like you calling me out for something while doing exactly the same. this time and last time?! what is going on with you?
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Anyways ..
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
Seprix
J Reggie
are the 4 town so far.
Roadrunner i thought earlier on, which was mostly gut. I explained it. The fact that several people said this is his townplay for other things, makes this most likely be right.
Seprixx,/Melisandre both felt towny in their conversation earlier on. I got a bit iffy later on about Seprix, because it felt like he changed his mind for no good reason. But his reaction to me pushing on that was good.
Melisandre seems to have an open mind. Kinda leaving his possibilities open a bit more than in the champs game (when he read people there he had a harder read most of the time). But i still like his approach here a lot.
Reggie .. i explained his latest post. liked it. the wording, using "us" when talking about town. if he is as much of a new player as i think he is, then that makes me think he is more likely town.
Silverspawn i thought towny early on .. but i have one problem with him. When he did his reread and all that the only thing i remember him pointing out about me was that he didn't get the "asking for a friend" line (which is a joke. someday you might get it)
And then reads me scummy for feeling weird, but he didn't point anything out that i did that he didn't like.
I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.
I am curious what people think about Awaclus. They said he plays very self centric/defensive as either alignment. He did that this game, but was any of it indicative of anything?
And is Ichimaru Gin claiming town a thing that confirms him as town? Silver said something close to that.
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I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.
It was 100% gut at that time. The joke wasn't scummy.
Your recent back and fourth with fontisian is scummy, though. And so is the fact that you aren't voting for her.
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Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.
From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". :-\
"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":
As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):
Seprix
Everyone else
:-\
Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.
Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?
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Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.
From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". :-\
"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":
As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):
Seprix
Everyone else
:-\
Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.
Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?
You literally just described Awaclus. I may link to this post in future games
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Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.
From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". :-\
"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":
As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):
Seprix
Everyone else
:-\
Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.
Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?
On f.ds, people never give any credit to reads of townies who get killed.
I don't really think the minimal associations to tie me with my scum partners thing is a thing. I'm voting for the person I want lynched, there's plenty of associations there, and I can only vote for one person so it's not like I could do much more anyway.
On the other hand, staying a closed book throughout the entire game is good, because it denies scum information. If they had all the information, they could just play perfectly and win every game, but denying them information makes it so that they don't always know which play is the right one.
I'm not particularly concerned in making sure people read me as town or actively finding scum. I'm only concerned in making sure town wins the game.
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Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM.
From my perspective: [if you were NK'd (by scum or vig) and flipped town, I'd look at your ISO and think, "well at least he knew he was town". :-\
"Did he give any reads...? Well he did leave us this one naked read":
As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):
Seprix
Everyone else
:-\
Moreover, if you were lynched and flipped scum, there are minimal associations to tie you with your scum-partners.
Therefore, staying a closed-book on D1 is bad on both accounts. At the moment I'm thinking: are you more concerned in making sure people read-you-as-town, than actively finding scum? Is this a play-style thing?
You literally just described Awaclus. I may link to this post in future games
Great, then I can link to my reply to that post whenever you do.
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I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.
It was 100% gut at that time. The joke wasn't scummy.
Your recent back and fourth with fontisian is scummy, though. And so is the fact that you aren't voting for her.
Reasons?!
Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not? For me the lio situation is not resolved enough to just switch my vote.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?
This reaction is awful.
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Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?
Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.
The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.
This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?
vote: Jan
you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.
You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.
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Really? Because all I see are joke questions these guys won't get and bad attempts at undermining me.
The same way you undermined me earlier?
Like I am saying that you are possible partners with that guy for that question, that doesn't mean you can't continue your game, can you?
People can make up their mind about that. You know i give reads like that more often than not lately so a read like that should not surprise you at all.
I don't think you actually react this way as town. This reaction is over the top and misrepresenting what i have done.
You could complain that I am not as active as I would be in other games we played, but you cannot say that I didn't try to push people into reactions/content.
Like you calling me out for something while doing exactly the same. this time and last time?! what is going on with you?
My call out was designed to a. go after something that wasn't helping, imo and b. done as a joke so you would be the only one to really get it, thus avoiding any undermining. It's not the partner thing that bothers me so much as implicitly supporting people when they say that trying to get reads and trying to push people out of omgus and into real content is scummy. /I/ would expect town you to be pushing for reads as well. At the very least, you should have corrected roadrunner when you saw his post. :/
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Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
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err, the part that's scummy about him is not the fact that he doesn't like you.
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But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
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Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
Well this is a bad policy...
Dang Jan. This pressure thing is nonsense; at this point I'm very confident that I won't be lynched today, anyway. And like I told ichi, pressure with you voice not your vote. But that's not even the bad thing. The bad thing is that you haven't commented at all on all the latest people who voted for me and you still haven't explained why you voted in the first place satisfactorily. Oh and you're still hung up on this scumteam thing, which is not only pointless to talk about right now but also way too obvious given our weird interactions. If you're town cut it out, if you're scum keep it up and we can lynch you.
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spending 20 minutes between writing the first half, then being busy and then writing the 2nd half and posting without rereading.
I don't think 2x gut is needed to bring my point across.
Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now.
Explain why you are saying this.
I am saying this because I believe that the possibility of a lio/fonti/Reggie scumteam is highly relevant to our current situation and thus we should spend the rest of the day discussing it to death, since after all it is just D1 so there is nothing more important to think about right now.
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excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.
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excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.
Okay well hopefully it was obvious. I thought it made the point more clear.
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excessive use of irony is... well, prob not scummy, but anti town, because it can create confusion.
I think excessive use is fine. It's the subtle use that can create confusion.
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Okay that's probably true
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But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
Is she, though? Where?
Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here. Which makes me think you're town. Seriously. Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.
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Also, yeah, Awa, back to the thing.
You are massively self-conscious as both alignments. Which is fine.
But you definitely haven't been helpful as town lately. Tunneling someone without giving reasons is not helpful.
(Here I'm defining helpful to mean "helping other people out right now in the current situation" rather than "helpful for the overall winning of the game)
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Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?
Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.
The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.
This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?
vote: Jan
you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.
You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.
I will explain again why i am not changing my vote. maybe you will understand it. most likely i won't care.
My initial read on fonti here is in big parts circumstantial.
If Leo flips is scum, then this is coaching. That also means if Leo is town, then her question is actually ok (that is why I was curious about scumchat, because with daychat she would ask him to do this in there and not in thread).
Her reaction is still meh, but we butt heads sometimes and her asking the question as scum to a town seems less likely, unless her partners are in a good positon and she wants said town to throw scum on other town.
So far understandable? Good.
Next step.
I can either stay with my vote on Lio to keep some pressure on him, or change my vote to fonti who won't actually get a lot of pressure by doing so (2nd vote?!)
The moment I switch my vote away from Lio the chances of him feeling less pressured and other people considering to unvote becomes real. I did not want the wagon to dissolve at the time.
On the other hand - if i actually get a townread on lio here, then Fonti looks several times better. So keeping pressure on him gives me a lot.
So overall my vote stays on someone who I think is scum. The only person who I would change it to at them moment would be you.
Why? For example :
You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.
This is a lie. Remember how i overreacted towards Klopp at least 2 times, because he played like shit and made the worst accusation towards me d1/2 and several people thought i am scum for overreaction and trying to rip his head off?
You should know better because that was the main reason several people considered me scum that game.
Try again.
But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
Is she, though? Where?
Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here. Which makes me think you're town. Seriously. Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.
And no - he is only side-slinging some mud in fontis direction. He is actually tunneling on me at the moment. For several made up reasons. And I agree if his reasoning was good that might be towny. But his make believe show is more a clownsfest than the work of a magician.
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Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.
I'm townreading fontisian. Do you mean Jan?
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But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
Is she, though? Where?
Here:
Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
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if you're scum keep it up and we can lynch you.
Cool, Vote: Jan
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Sherlock and John sit in the anteroom, waiting to be admitted. Upon Sherlock's lap sat a small cage, and within it a rather ragged-looking rat. The anteroom is almost empty, only an elderly couple sits across from them, their Labrador retriever at their feet. John browses through a magazine on vegan lifestyle that he picked up from the table.
"I still don't get why you didn't simply say you wanted to talk to her."
"We don't want to draw attention, John."
"And you think that this is more subtle, coming in here with some rat that looks like we caught it straight from the sewers, looking for treatment?"
"Well, it is straight from the sewers."
"I don't think I even want to know..."
The receptionist walks into the room. "Mr Watson?" Sherlock and John get up and follow her into the examination room. "Dr Gorman will be with you an a minute."
A short time later, a small, skinny woman enters the room, presumably in her late forties. "Hello. What can I do for you and your... oh, it's you."
"A pleasure to meet you again, Dr Gorman."
"Right... so what have you got here?" she asked. "A rat? You never quite struck me as the rodent type."
"It's not my rat. You can keep it if you want. I'm here for Betty."
"Betty? I don't know any Betty."
"You do," John explains. "A cat. Her owner brought her here about a week ago, with some sickness that you apparently could not identify."
Dr Gorman considers this for a while with a strained expression. Then she responded: "Yes, yes... I believe I remember. I'm afraid to say the fellow was a tad paranoid. Kept insisting that Betty had been poisoned or something. I ran all standard tests - rat poison and whatnot - but could not find anything. It was just a standard case of kitty flu. I prescribed her some medicine. But -" Dr Gorman stops for a short time "- why do you want to know?"
"Oh, you know," Sherlock answers, "the usual."
"I see. Well, I'm afraid that's all I can tell you. Now, if you'll excuse me. I have actual suffering patients out there waiting to be treated."
Vote Count 1.6
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (4): Jan, Teproc, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
fontisian (1): Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
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So which one of us is the rat? :)
Hmm, it looks like lio's response is actually more nervous town than nervous scum. I like going back to vote: Jan here.
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Back after a long grueling day at work. There's apparently some case on Jan, but I'm not seeing it. I'll look it over again, maybe it'll make sense to me.
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But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
I like to be interesting.
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<-- Ahem
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Week-ends are always tough for me, I've been following along but can't really respond to stuff before tonight, however I will say liopoil has not gotten any townier.
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Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now.
Scum-liopoil would need balls to say this ;D If either of "fontisian/J Reggie" are scum-partner(s), less so though. I.e calling for focus to stay on scum... not scared of associations... [enough of that pre-flip association theory though].
On the other hand, staying a closed book throughout the entire game is good, because it denies scum information. If they had all the information, they could just play perfectly and win every game, but denying them information makes it so that they don't always know which play is the right one.
OK - I can understand that motivation [but I expect you to lead us to the win later in the game ;D].
J Reggie, talk me through your votes... (there's some missing gaps I need to note down)
vote: Jan
Maybe it's a scum read. Maybe it's omgus. Maybe it's Maybeline. Idk but this feels like the right vote.
Is this a gut/tonal scum-read? Reasons?
Wow, that's so simple and it totally makes sense. vote: liopoil
Hmm, it looks like lio's response is actually more nervous town than nervous scum. I like going back to vote: Jan here.
How/when did something "so simple" become "nervous town"? (Point me to the posts).
[There is nothing wrong with wagon hopping, but it is suspect if it's only blind/unsupported influence to support the momentum of an opportune wagon.]
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Hmm, not much going on. Glad of that, I would be miles behind if it were.
Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
Silver, this is not fonti defending Jan. It's a weird statement, but not a defense.
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Hmm, not much going on. Glad of that, I would be miles behind if it were.
Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
Silver, this is not fonti defending Jan. It's a weird statement, but not a defense.
If you say something that someone did is not scummy, that sounds very much like a defense to me.
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will work on some focused rereads here shortly (after a league match). starting with people with the biggest wagons and working my way down.
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J Reggie, talk me through your votes... (there's some missing gaps I need to note down)
I had a gut read on Jan, then I liked the case on liopoil, then I stopped liking it and went back to my previous vote of Jan, who happened to have more votes now. It's pretty simple. The only wagon I hopped on was liopoil.
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O liopoil had a wagon that sounds like fun.
I'm going to go
Vote: fontisian though.
This is a more serious vote then the awaclus one.
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So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
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ADK - I like his analysis on a lot of things. Like, for example, in these posts:
How am I doing what I'm describing? Seprix voted for melisandre for having "contrived reads" because it's "too early". I'm saying that that's nonsense, and also suspicious because it's an easy position to take, so I'm voting for him.
I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
I've landed as town on Melisandre, just because I think town is much more likely to do the reaction-fishing "gotcha" thing. Also probably town on Jan, I might sheep him on liopoil.
Mmm I need to be less literal. I think on average town waffles more than scum, scum tries to look super certain of their reads.
Overall, I think ADK is making a good effort to scumhunt. He doesn't glare town to me like liopoil does, but I think he is definitely on the townier side.
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Jan - the first half of all his posts were like 100% questions. All he did. Ask questions and make jokes. Then he continued on and began posting more, questions disappeared, analysis began.
Town points for all the town reads he has given. I like the analysis. A solid null-town read just because I don't know him that well. We have better lynches
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gkrieg's game has consisted entirely of the following two things:
I like the read/post/etc by X person
I don't like the read/post/etc by Y person
So yeah, a lot of 'input' by gkrieg but nothing that is difficult for him. Just going off whatever other people say. I am happy keeping my vote here.
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and for my next reread:
Rolled 1d16 : 7, total 7
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O liopoil had a wagon that sounds like fun.
I'm going to go
Vote: fontisian though.
This is a more serious vote then the awaclus one.
Want to give a reason?
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So let's see how much i remember of this game :
1. liopoil
Unsure - poor reactions to the pressure. Poor reads so far. I dislike the fonti/lio thing.
2. gkrieg13
I mainly remember the 2 chunks of text on Seprix and ADK. Both are kinda boring. 10 times more information than actual read (he uses a lot of word for pushing very little content).
His ADK read
he says I feel like scum!ADK is usually easy to spot later on in the game.
- then why did you decide to reread him over anyone else in the first place?
A for effort, but someone that will always slip up late game isn't my first second go to reread, is he?
I like him pointing out that lio adding weak reads if whe doesn't believe in them is scummy.
He has given more content than i remembered -> has mentioned almost everyone in the game so far (isoing him right now).
Has not done any real hard pushes so far, only very light prodding.
IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town.
3. fontisian
disliked the lio thing. if he is town, then she looks better.
General actions and interactions are enough that i don't want to lynch her right now.
Her first push on me was really odd. I have trouble sorting through if that is more likely 2 towns being stupid or her as scum trying to discredit me from the get go, because i disliked her initial case a lot. Neutral for now.
4. silverspawn
I liked him loosely explaining metas at the start, but most of the things afterwards were bad. His "case" on me is hot air and feelings at best, together with misrepresenting meta.
Someone said him tunneling d1 is towny, which is like .. he is scumreading me for the last 24 hours in a small dispute.
If you want to see him tunnel, check the champs game where he was tunneling on a single person for 3-4 gamedays.
I think if I should die today then silverspawn should not be copchecked, because that would be the obvious copcheck to fuck areound with one way or another. But he needs to be pressured hard tomorrow. Don't give that guy an inch.
5. Roadrunner7671
Don't remember him doing a lot of in depth work, more lightly touching everything and everyone while running a long (much like the roadrunner!).
Several people identified him as likely town, i agree with what i remember. Don't think he did anything scummy.
6. Melisandre
Reads different than in the champs game, but this game he reads just a bit more offensive/proactive instead of reserved and giving his reads from the backline.
Which is a good thing. I expect his scumgame to be quite good, but I still think he is likely town. Never the kill today.
7. Seprix
I said why i read him town. Hasn't changed.
8. Hydrad
Completly Missing in Action. 2 posts total.
1 is saying sorry for missing out on the game start.
2 is explaining his vote with it being a placeholder vote that he would make just because killing awaclus is better than a possible no lynch, i guess?
Hard to give a read. 2 seems genuine. But like .. no content at all.
Wouldn't miss him but not my #1 lynch
9. Awaclus
Nothing. Apparently he is playing close to his meta. But he hasn't given me anything that peeks my itnerest or makes me think he is town.
10. A Drowned Kernel
Disliked his reaction to the pressure he got for the Seprix vote :
Man, I'm not even voting for you right now, Seprix.
I felt a certain way when I read that post. I gave my reason for that vote. Maybe it's a bad reason! It felt right at the time. I've since changed it, and since changed my read on Seprix, so that's not even relevant at the moment.
Just a bit much. Funny enough that he tells liopoil that lios reaction to RR was not good. Because neither was/were his reactions to the Seprix thing.
Lio/ ADK are not both scum, but there is not unlikely one between them. Unless he is know to be a serial busser.
Dislike the weak hydra vote, that Haddock alread pointed out.
The main reason to not go for him would be that he apparently is on a camping trip, which means he might not be able to defend himself at all.
11. J Reggie
I like his one response. Easy to fake as scum, but hearing that he is a newish player it felt just genuine towny.
He feels more like a sheep than anyone thar would bring the game to new heights for now.
12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
13. Ichimaru Gin
42 posts, mostly 1 liners/short posts. I think the content reads ok. Him jumping on the lio train and then jumping off it afterwards feels good as it is very independent, before that i was a bit afraid that he is just purely a sheep people will push around all game.
14. 2.71828.....
very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
RR is meta nothing - look again day 3
Meli is seems honest - town
lio - might want to lynch him in the future maybe but i have no idea
fonti/jan - not today
gkrieg - votes on me in rvs, hasn't change. kill with fire.
silverspawn is playing the game
I voted Sprix, but i have no idea what i am doing. but let's kill gkrieg!
hydrad is like RR - look again day 3
Awaclus is - i don't even know not a real read.
ADK is in the game. But we should kill gkrieg!
Haddock is scummy or not or maybe. But i don't have resons. But at least I have words.
Ichi town.
Teproc scum because no reason.
I do not understand :
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Doing something that you normally do does not imply at all that you are scum, because you are town around 70% of them time.
So what does that read even mean?
Also you say this is how Hydrad usual plays. does he always have only 2 posts and close to no content at all? And people are fine with that and don't push him to actually play the game?
Yeah he can stay on the scumside of things. Actually he just moved up quite high on that list. Calling his conclusion on the reread "A lot" while actually not giving a lot at all.
Just not town.
15. Jan
Openly wolfing all game. Have you seen his case on the numbers person (i will refuse calling him e, because that just becomes a stupid typo way too fast) just now?
Plain bad.
16. Teproc
I like most of the content he is pushing.
Unsure about the Reggie thing ( i feel like i have to reread reggie when i am done with this all, but that is something to do tomorrow).
His points on reggie are valid, just not sure if it is just new town.
Overall not the lynch for today, Town lean.
Mostly approach to the game/tone and the points whre he is pushing seem genuine.
Only a soft read because he is more likely a capable player and as thus able to fake it.
Unsure about the ADK townread, i would like to have that explained. (unless i missed that, then just quote it).
That was a lot .. will take a break for a while .. will create a generic signature right now. I just realized how annoying it is without.
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I'm back, and plan on a big catchup post later tonight. Stay tuned.
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Seprix. He has that early vote on Melisandre because of the RVS reads post. I mean, it is a nice little vote that he has decent enough reason for and defends it well. Very protective of his vote, which could go either way. I know I like to vote with a case and defend it well as scum or town. I think really the one thing that we can learn from it is that Melisandre and Seprix are not scum together. One might be, or the other....but not both. Basically, if you are going to vote for your partner you don't mistakenly vote for Jan. You vote for your partner.
I am fairly null on Seprix right now. He has been around and had some fun interactions, nothing super townie or scummy so far. I think he lands slightly on the scummy side of null though.
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I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
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Sheesh, I disagree with the majority of Jan's reads:
1. Nope
2. gkrieg has way more content than the average player in this game
3. Her questions made sense. And you refuse to give up the alignment contingency things.
4. His case is good, and he's not tunneling. Why are you telling cops what to do.
7. Well, I'm still suspicious, but alright
8. He just made another post and moved his vote, but yeah he should post more.
10 His reaction was towny and genuine. And more alignment contingencies.
14. e's reads are just about as good as one can have now. And I generally agree wth them. You openly twist his words a bit.
15. Hey I agree with this!
16. Well I don't like his content obviously but am still withholding judgement for now...
At least this helped me form reads a bit.
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I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
nevermind. I actually read Jan's post. Two can play this game:
Jan - very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
1. liopoil - null
2. gkrieg13 - IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town. So......null then
3. fontisian - null
4. silverspawn - talks a lot....doesn't give any reads....kind of feels null/scum?
5. Roadrunner7671 - town
6. Melisandre - town
7. Seprix - town
8. Hydrad - he needs to post more, wouldn't mind lynching
9. Awaclus - null
10. A Drowned Kernel - scum, but not voting because he is V/LA right now
11. J Reggie - town
12. Haddock - town
13. Ichimaru Gin - town?
14. 2.71828..... - scum because his reads list was awful and I am getting to the end of players and I have to find at least one person scummy
15. Jan - let's call myself scum. They don't seem to react negatively to that here.
16. Teproc - town lean
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vote: Jan
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening. I mean, he did the same thing that he called me scummy for.
And yeah, that null-town read I had earlier. Well, let's switch it to scummy. I mean, seriously, everything I called him town for I could also call him scum for. Nice how early reads can progress. All those questions to get a feel for the game before jumping in exactly where he was comfortable to insure he didn't slip up in an unfamiliar environment. How is that for twisting around what I said to make it sound scummy?
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Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
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Not sure why gkrieg and Haddock are in there. I just forgot everything about them for a minute and so added them. The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet.
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So let's see how much i remember of this game :
1. liopoil
Unsure - poor reactions to the pressure. Poor reads so far. I dislike the fonti/lio thing.
Also, leave your vote there on liopoil. I mean, he is the biggest wagon and you helped start it. Have to try to keep those scum wagons viable as long as possible. The longer the idea of a liopoil lynch is on people's minds, the more likely it is to actually happen.
Probably just forgot to vote for me. Or for himself, for that matter. I mean, we are the only two real scum based on that reread. But now it will be OMGUS for you not for me, since I voted you first.
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Coming back to take a glympse at possible reaction and feel like i hit a gold mine.
And this is how i outted a scum for you.
You are welcome.
Was not even hard. Nice try misrepresenting my reads in an attempt to copy what i did to your shallow readslist.
Vote: 2.71828.....
The right summar owuld have been
If ADK is scum then GKrieg looks bad for the summary and his "early read on him" while knowing that it was useless (because he knows he is someone to catch altegame not early).
That felt like more distancing than not.
If Lio is scum then Fonti looks bad for the possible coaching part.
I don't think ADK/Lio are scum together for the way ADK continued attacking Lio when he got pressured. DIdn't feel like a partner bussing to me.
You on the other hand are just one independent scumread and your first reaction was
"i know that guy is town, i read him town before let's continue with it"
But you had to switch because you realized my case is spot on and your attempt of undermining my readslist won't help, because i actually gave reasons why i read the people the way i do. You did not.
Goodnight and Goodbye son.
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Do not understand that at all. ^
Can you explain how he just scumslipped?
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Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
Yeah this is most likely the worst scum list i have seen all game. Not talking about me, but like .. You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
Just look at their post. They are just better. Sure there could be a scum between them. But that would be the hard scum to find, ebcause they are playing fairly well.
Hydrad is just a cop out. could be scum could be town, has no content.
I am split between you and "Number two", but he hardclaimed with his reaction while you might be just wrong on everything as town.
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Do not understand that at all. ^
Can you explain how he just scumslipped?
It is not a slip.
But his reaction is completly ungenuine and the point of his reactionpost is only to undermind the reads i just gave as a mockery to what i did to his post.
The difference being that i pushed quite a lot of content with mine, while he gave vague nothings.
That together with him blindy townreading me from the get go, because he knew I am town.
Either he gives the townread for the list without reading it, which means he is bad (oh look a wall of text that has to be town) or he knows i am town because he is scum.
Or he reads it completly within the 3 minutes between our posts, but doesn't understand what he reads and just reads me town for what?
And then he switches the list i made and my accusation by absically just changing or names. nothing but a mockery. Which would be fine if it was accurate (like i did to fonti earlier), but it is just not.
Lynch me if you want. i gave you some outted mafia to lynch right away. Have fun.
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Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
Yeah this is most likely the worst scum list i have seen all game. Not talking about me, but like .. You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
Just look at their post. They are just better. Sure there could be a scum between them. But that would be the hard scum to find, ebcause they are playing fairly well.
Hydrad is just a cop out. could be scum could be town, has no content.
I am split between you and "Number two", but he hardclaimed with his reaction while you might be just wrong on everything as town.
You continue to blatantly misrepresent. This was not a reads list. It was not intended to be persuasive. It was not even a list of people I find scummy. It was "Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool", and indeed this is exactly what I said.
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Coming back to take a glympse at possible reaction and feel like i hit a gold mine.
And this is how i outted a scum for you.
You are welcome.
Was not even hard. Nice try misrepresenting my reads in an attempt to copy what i did to your shallow readslist.
Vote: 2.71828.....
The right summar owuld have been
If ADK is scum then GKrieg looks bad for the summary and his "early read on him" while knowing that it was useless (because he knows he is someone to catch altegame not early).
That felt like more distancing than not.
If Lio is scum then Fonti looks bad for the possible coaching part.
I don't think ADK/Lio are scum together for the way ADK continued attacking Lio when he got pressured. DIdn't feel like a partner bussing to me.
You on the other hand are just one independent scumread and your first reaction was
"i know that guy is town, i read him town before let's continue with it"
But you had to switch because you realized my case is spot on and your attempt of undermining my readslist won't help, because i actually gave reasons why i read the people the way i do. You did not.
Goodnight and Goodbye son.
The most OMGUS post of all time. If you read his post carefully, you'd realize that he is not actually summarizing your reads, but mocking the way you misrepresent his own reads in your summary. In noticing that he is misrepresenting you, you accidentally implicitly admit to misrepresenting him. And his original reads list was high quality.
e's flip-flop screams completely genuine to me, and I think others will agree. What you accuse e of you yourself commit at least as much.
I doubt we will find a better lynch than Jan today.
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Vote e
I'm with Jan. Reasons after work.
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Eh. I'm thinking I'm siding against Jan on this one.
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Vote e
I'm with Jan. Reasons after work.
Yeah, well:
Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
Not particularly surprising.
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E's post read like he decided to lynch Jan and then figured out the reasoning afterwards.
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E's post read like he decided to lynch Jan and then figured out the reasoning afterwards.
That's how Jan's post read!
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Man, I need to actually participate.
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Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
-
E's post read like he decided to lynch Jan and then figured out the reasoning afterwards.
That's how Jan's post read!
How so?
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Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
I think this discussion is keeping progress going.
Its interesting to see.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
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E's post read like he decided to lynch Jan and then figured out the reasoning afterwards.
That's how Jan's post read!
How so?
I could ask you the same question. Anyway:
1. The original entry on e in his reads post is just so contrived.
2. He pretty much HAD to vote for e after e called him out. So he throws this big "hahaha I caught scum" thing and doesn't even justify it at all in the post where he votes for him. The RR is like "wut." and Jan realizes he has to come up with something, so he calls e's flip-flop fake. But the scum narrative for it is really hard to see for the initial townread post if he's going to vote for him. Town changes their mind, not scum.
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Good. You should ask me.
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening. I mean, he did the same thing that he called me scummy for.
"Jan is correct that I wasn't paying attention to his posts, but he's mafia anyway because."
And yeah, that null-town read I had earlier. Well, let's switch it to scummy. I mean, seriously, everything I called him town for I could also call him scum for. Nice how early reads can progress. All those questions to get a feel for the game before jumping in exactly where he was comfortable to insure he didn't slip up in an unfamiliar environment. How is that for twisting around what I said to make it sound scummy?
"Everything I called you town for could also make you scum, because I didn't think about my original read at all. I would like to call you scum now. Watch me make up logic."
-
There might be something here after all. I'm going to have to look deeper.
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OK, time for to catch up via a player-by-player reread:
liopoil:
There's a lot going on with liopoil, and some strong emotional reactions. I'm not really used to that from him, but I haven't played in that many games with him. I have a hard time understanding we're he's coming from a lot of the time, and his posts seem to contain a lot of contradictions. The easy explanation is that's because he's scum and his stances are fabricated, but it might be town and approaching the game differently than me.
Notable posts:
439 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603640#msg603640) stood out to me because of the hedgey position on RR. He feels it's important to point out that he didn't explicitly townread RR, then says that he does in fact townread RR.
201, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) 446, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603654#msg603654) and 448 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603658#msg603658) stand out because he gives an RVS baiting post (null) but carries it over to far after actual discussion has begun, then immediately backs off on it. It's scummy for a couple of reasons: first, I would expect town to have forgotten about/dropped their baiting by that point, and second, the immediate unvoting suggests that he was feeling self-conscious about it.
570 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604098#msg604098) and the next post, there's not a whole lot to say except that liopoil looks extremely self-conscious. His following posts seem frustrated which can come as easily from town as from scum but it's the original reaction that's important.
601 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604237#msg604237) this might just be a playstyle disagreement but I don't like that's he's discouraging voting as a means of applying pressure.
623 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604317#msg604317) I don't think his analysis of his wagon is bad, although he does some overly hesitant to outright call anyone scum. But I don't like the last line, I find trying to direct conversation like that scummy. Your wagon is what's happening, people have a right to discuss it and give their thoughts and pursue it.
697 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604589#msg604589) is a weird lynchpool, and 704 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604618#msg604618) is frankly bizarre. What's a lynchpool if not a list of players you find at least somewhat scummy? Are you willing to lynch players you have a townread on?
Summary: Hedgey, self-conscious, weird. Status: Would lynch.
gkrieg:
Other than his stream-of-consciousness posts, almost all of his posts are one or two lines long. He puts a lot of things in terms of “I like this” or “I don't like that” without much elaboration into his thought process. Honestly it reads as towny; scum bends over backwards to justify themselves. He pokes and prods and seems generally engaged, if overly reluctant to commit to actual reads.
Notable posts:
420 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603569#msg603569) something about this post and his whole consideration of the Seprix/Melis/me situation reads towny to me. He seems like he's very engaged in the situation and working to form reads.
528, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603955#msg603955) 529 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603956#msg603956) again, gkrieg is brief with his posts but does seem like he has something to say.
Summary: Natural, engaged, doesn't seem forced. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Fontisian:
After a strong initial post, seems to take a long time to get into the game. Brusque reactions to a lot of things, willing to put herself out there. A little on the lurky side, and seems to be more reactive than proactive. Not putting a whole lot of her own reads out there, but the ones that she does are strong reads, which I think ends up as towny.
Notable posts:
496 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603793#msg603793) this sort of analysis looks towny.
620 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604306#msg604306) is one of those posts that's so towny, it's scummy. But I don't think that it could be coaching, scum generally knows better than to do that kind of thing. If anything it makes me think that lio and font are less likely to be partners.
657 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604372#msg604372) and on the flip side, this is one of those things that's so scummy it couldn't possibly be coming from actual scum.
Summary: Slightly lurky, but forward and willing to stand by her opinions. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Silverspawn:
A lot of well though-out analysis. I don't 100% agree with all of it, but he's very engaged with the game and is one of my strongest townreads on this reread so far. Has a very relaxed tone, talks a bit about things unrelated to the game.
Notable posts:
514 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850) the big reread. This kinds of posts aren't impossible to fake as scum and silver is absolutely a good enough player to do so, but it makes me not want to vote for him today.
561, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604033#msg604033) 611 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604252#msg604252) Silver gives IG a townread but is soon after willing to question IG's flop on Teproc. Towny; scum isn't so quick to change reads.
655 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604369#msg604369) Silver's reasoning seems spot on here. I like what I see.
Summary: On the ball, engaged, relaxed. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
RR:
Eh. Pretty typical Roadrunner stuff. Says a bunch of stuff that would scummy coming from anyone else. Completely misunderstands RVS and seems to be playing a different game than everyone else (not a different mafia game, like he's playing parcheesi or something). But I like the whole liopoil thing, and he does have enough actual content that I don't want to lynch him.
Notable posts:
627, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604323#msg604323) 630 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604326#msg604326) does a good job of explaining himself against pressure.
Summary: Typical Roadrunner. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Melisandre:
Bold play, not afraid of controversy, lot of poking of players and looking for reactions. Seems to put a lot of consideration into his reads. Asks a lot of pointed questions, and seems to genuinely consider the answers. Confident, conversational, flippant at times with his reaction gifs. Another strong townread.
Notable posts:
617, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604298#msg604298) one of the few Melis posts I didn't like. At that point I think the lio situation demanded a stance, or at least a good explanation for not taking a side, rather than humor.
Status: Bold, confident. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Also:
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
When are you going to start playing?
hahahahahahaha
Seprix:
Was very active at the start of the game, then gets a little lurkier. I like his early argument with Melis but my town read fades as I read him as the day goes on. I would like to see more commited reads from him on people who aren't Melisandre.
Notable posts:
457 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603685#msg603685) do you have a read on liopoil?
516 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603859#msg603859) do you have a read on silverspawn?
589 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604218#msg604218) do you have a read on IG?
Summary: Somewhat lurky, and a strong shift in playstyle throughout the day. Status: Would lynch.
Hydrad:
A grand total of three four posts. There's seriously almost nothing here. Even Hydrad isn't usually this lurky, right?
Summary: Super lurker. Status: Would lynch.
Awaclus:
Ok, I'm going to try and overcome my Awaclus-bias here.
Typically closed-mouthed. I guess he finds Seprix scummy! I'm not expecting him to explain why. Although if he was town, I would expect more people would be pushing his lynch, since being anti-Awaclus is so easy, so I think that's worth at least a scumlean.
Summary: Awaclus. Status: Would lynch.
Yeah, couldn't overcome it.
J Reggie:
Seems relaxed. Seems very aware of people's metas for a newer player. I'll admit he's a bit enigmatic to me, I'm pretty much null on him. Is little shifty, willing to change his votes a lot. Well, there's a few posts that do look towny:
305 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603329#msg603329) willing to change his mind without making a big deal about it.
480 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603740#msg603740) the tone of this feels relaxed and towny.
570 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604169#msg604169) the original liopoil vote is pretty bold, especially from a new player.
The one thing that still stands out to me is this:
314 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603340#msg603340) J Reggie: why was gkrieg, specifically, on this list? He had made barely any posts by that point.
Summary: Hanging back, but relaxed. Not the townies but not the scummiest. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Haddock:
Few posts, but some of them are pretty long. Is tunneling J Reggie pretty hard. His reads seem kind of floaty, like he doesn't quite know where he's landed yet. I would like to see more from him but he's landed on town for now. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Ichimaru Gin:
Fairly quiet for Ichi, although I suppose no one's put any pressure on him so we haven't had the classic Ichi blow-up yet. Does seem to get more involved as the day goes on, especially in his interactions with liopoil. The turn-around there makes me lean town for now.
327, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603355#msg603355) 547 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603991#msg603991) casual, gut-based votes for people who don't currently have big wagons on them. Towny.
608 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604245#msg604245) again, casual, conversational. Towny.
Summary: Casual, a little quiet. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
e:
Not really liking what I see here. OMGUS's hard against Jan, doesn't seem to have strong opinions on anyone else. A lot of his early posts seem kind of empty and forced. e's usually more on the ball than this I think.
Notable posts:
282, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603298#msg603298) 494['url] this kind of empty posting is odd from e.
[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604193#msg604193]583 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603778#msg603778) this reread list seems kind of lazy and faked to me.
Summary: Removed, disengaged, reactive. Status: Would lynch.
Jan:
Somewhat abrasive. Asks a lot of questions, prods people a lot. Seems to focus his attention on the people he's already played with, but that's understandable.
500 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603798#msg603798) Jan/fontisian looks like town fighting town to me.
668 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604403#msg604403) a very involved explanation of his reasoning. I buy it as a genuine explanation of his thought process, even if I disagree with the conclusion.
690 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604575#msg604575) massive player-by-player reread. Those are, like, super towny.
Summary: Abrasive, proactive, opinionated. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Teproc:
Teproc is always next to impossible for me to read, but I'm leaning town here. He's reserved and rational. He went out on a limb with the liopoil thing. Another player that I want a little more from at this point.
376 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603433#msg603433) I feel like Teproc should get that what Melis was doing (or was claiming to have done) was posted the reads list as a reaction test. But eh.
575 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604147#msg604147) for me what stands out as towny about this is the “this is going to look ridiculous, but...” line. Scum's going to try and be super confident in their reads. Teproc also I think tries to present himself as super rational as scum, and wouldn't qualify his vote like that.
Summary: Reserved, fairly typical of his meta. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
So my lynchpool looks like:
liopoil, Hydrad, Awaclus, Seprix, e. The liopoil read is probably the strongest, with e after that, and I think those would be the most informative lynches. I'm going to go with
Vote: e
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Lynchpool: People without a Day one pass. And I actually did mess that lynchpool up a bit anyway. Oh, and anyone who isn't hedgy on day one is faking it.
Damn, seems that literally nobody got the Teproc vote-unvote. They happened within minutes of each other. It was an RVS after RVS had ended, and you can't just leave those lying around. I don't think I ever quite contradict myself.
As for the rest of your post, it reads like the towny version of Jan's reads list. The specific references to posts are much stronger and have real content.
Interestingly, I'm seeing eye-to-eye with e right now, and it seems most people read us the same way.
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Votecount:
e: 4
Jan: 4
fontisian: 2
seprix: 1
ADK: 1
J Reggie: 1
liopoil: 1
What, you expected names? This is a vote count, not a vote list.
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I'll be interested to see who melisandre votes for. Seems like he's been holding back until he's read a lot and knows who he wants to lynch. Anyway, I'm done for today.
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I think I like where my vote is now. Here's the problem, and maybe this is too deep.
On f.ds, we are very concerned with meta. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. When someone's been playing here for long time, people get an idea of what they're usually like. That player also has an idea of how other people here read them and can use that to their advantage. When someone hasn't been playing here for a long time, they're usually a new player, and that in itself brings certain things that make them easier to read.
Jan is neither of these things. Jan has been playing mafia for a long time but is completely new to f.ds. A lot of the things that Jan is doing right now look really scummy from my perspective, but I'm only used to f.ds mafia. I'm sure that Jan knows better than to do things that are this scummy so obviously, aside from for WIFOM's sake, but I'm not seeing that right now.
It currently looks like a Jan lynch is the best option, but I don't want to make the mistake of lynching someone because they're an outsider. It's almost like we speak a different language, and Jan is saying "here are my honest reads" and I'm hearing "here's a fake reads list". So I'd like to hear what people have to say about this. I'm pretty new so I don't really know if any of this is right or not.
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Damn, that long ass readlist from ADK, with post numbers and an e vote. I think I'm going to swoon.
Man, I need to actually participate.
Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
"Man, if I keep saying man, maybe people won't attack me for my indifference."
Hydrad: If you could, please explain your vote on me, explain why the current situation is "interesting" and commit to an opinion on E. Or die. I'm not picky.
Reggie: Jan's hasn't actually been playing forum mafia for that long. I invited him to his first game a few months ago. I imagine, he, like me, doesn't what specific things are considered scummy or towny on this site, but most mafia sites tend to follow certain patterns. Jan can and will do things that he knows are seen as scummy (especially in a joking manner) for the wifom and because he finds it amusing. I suggest you ask him and others about the specific things you find scummy or towny, both because it will likely help your read and because it will help others read you.
I had thought you had a fair bit of experience, based on your prior confidence. The hint of vulnerability here makes me want to townread you, but I'd like some f. dsers to chime in first on whether you're likely to play the newb card as mafia.
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Man, I need to actually participate.
Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
"Man, if I keep saying man, maybe people won't attack me for my indifference."
If you notice an apparent overuse of the word man, it's probably because Donald X (the creator of Dominion) uses it a bunch.
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Oh. Interesting.
The point is more about the sentiment behind those two posts. I think it stands.
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Damn, that long ass readlist from ADK, with post numbers and an e vote. I think I'm going to swoon.
Man, I need to actually participate.
Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
"Man, if I keep saying man, maybe people won't attack me for my indifference."
Hydrad: If you could, please explain your vote on me, explain why the current situation is "interesting" and commit to an opinion on E. Or die. I'm not picky.
Reggie: Jan's hasn't actually been playing forum mafia for that long. I invited him to his first game a few months ago. I imagine, he, like me, doesn't what specific things are considered scummy or towny on this site, but most mafia sites tend to follow certain patterns. Jan can and will do things that he knows are seen as scummy (especially in a joking manner) for the wifom and because he finds it amusing. I suggest you ask him and others about the specific things you find scummy or towny, both because it will likely help your read and because it will help others read you.
I had thought you had a fair bit of experience, based on your prior confidence. The hint of vulnerability here makes me want to townread you, but I'd like some f. dsers to chime in first on whether you're likely to play the newb card as mafia.
From my little experience (he doesn't even have a finished game here) he does not seem like one to pull the newb card as scum. But like I said, that's from very little experience
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Suddenly there's a lot of content. Not quite caught up yet. Just a few things
Yo, silver, Jan and I don't like to vote each other Day 1. It's not scummy.
See, this is something that could only happen to me. I read that post several times before now but I still thought it said' "Jan and I don't like each other Day 1. It's not scummy."
That's why I called it a defense. The more you know.
Vote e
I'm with Jan. Reasons after work.
You need a colon.
e's flip-flop screams completely genuine to me, and I think others will agree. What you accuse e of you yourself commit at least as much.
They do. I am they.
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Vote Count 1.7
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (2): Roadrunner7671, Hydrad
Jan (4): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
That's in roughly 36 hours.
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E's post read like he decided to lynch Jan and then figured out the reasoning afterwards.
That's how Jan's post read!
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yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening. I mean, he did the same thing that he called me scummy for.
"Jan is correct that I wasn't paying attention to his posts, but he's mafia anyway because."
And yeah, that null-town read I had earlier. Well, let's switch it to scummy. I mean, seriously, everything I called him town for I could also call him scum for. Nice how early reads can progress. All those questions to get a feel for the game before jumping in exactly where he was comfortable to insure he didn't slip up in an unfamiliar environment. How is that for twisting around what I said to make it sound scummy?
"Everything I called you town for could also make you scum, because I didn't think about my original read at all. I would like to call you scum now. Watch me make up logic."
Your argument here is basically that he admitted his previous read was weak/not thought through and therefore his new read must be too.
But that does not make sense. I had the same happen to me as town several times. You casually go along, give a few reads, then you reread and realize that your old reads were pretty bad, throw them overboard, make better reads. It's towny.
But more importantly, his new reads aren't contradicting or weak based on substance.
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I like ADK's reads list, except for the part on e. I think his recent play, the 180° on his reads, is much more likely to come from town than scum.
Granted, it would be very good play coming from scum for that reason - giving you a way to adjust your reads where you like them more and earn towncred in the process. Still. Town.
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It was an RVS after RVS had ended, and you can't just leave those lying around.
That was my problem with it. It's surprising that you were still thinking about your "trap" or what have you at the point in the game. And surprising is in the same ballpark as scummy.
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I need to consolidate my reads today.
I'd suggest we get a player to L-1 tonight - we'd then have plenty of time to chat about the claim/defence and build a new wagon if need be.
If there is a risk of a D1 no lynch, we lynch one of the lurkers.
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It was an RVS after RVS had ended, and you can't just leave those lying around.
That was my problem with it. It's surprising that you were still thinking about your "trap" or what have you at the point in the game. And surprising is in the same ballpark as scummy.
Oh, but I was pretty excited about it! I was disappointed when nobody voted J Reggie right away.
I need to consolidate my reads today.
I'd suggest we get a player to L-1 tonight - we'd then have plenty of time to chat about the claim/defence and build a new wagon if need be.
If there is a risk of a D1 no lynch, we lynch one of the lurkers.
Sounds like a good plan.
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I need to consolidate my reads today.
I'd suggest we get a player to L-1 tonight - we'd then have plenty of time to chat about the claim/defence and build a new wagon if need be.
If there is a risk of a D1 no lynch, we lynch one of the lurkers.
I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
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I'll reread later
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Vote: e
Cheers.
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Vote: e
Cheers.
Bad vote though.
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Ok, I really am back this time. Catching up.
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@Hydrad - are you struggling to express your thoughts / reads this game... or finding it difficult to interact with players?
Do you have weak reads? At the moment it looks like you don't want any confrontation - i.e no one to counter your scum-reads/votes. [That playstyle makes me paranoid].
Why are you voting fontisian right now?
This is the only read/reason you have fully expressed/explained:
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
You are on the wrong side of null for me at the moment.
Null scum lean.
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Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
When Melisandre/Charlton Heston observed e's inactivity, I was about to come in and say that scum!e would have felt more pressure to act and would probably have come up with a big townie-looking reread post by now. This reads pretty relaxed, but still, somewhat scummy.
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What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.
Your responses are making me think it's less likely you're scum, but I'm also afraid that you're really good at fooling people. That itself isn't scummy. I'm just not sure of the key to telling when a good player is scum.
So, I guess I'll unvote.
Very townie.
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Ok, e's rereads are looking pretty townie, and I usually hate them.
I'm having a lot of trouble reading Jan, and fontisian to a lesser extent. Obviously it's the not-knowing them, but I feel pretty strongly that Melisandre is town despite that now (I know there was that early thing, but every post since then has been super duper townie).
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Not sure why gkrieg and Haddock are in there. I just forgot everything about them for a minute and so added them. The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet.
This is at least the 4th or 5th threat liopoil makes re: me. It's all "well, we'll see if Teproc changes his mind when he comes back", or "well I'm not findin Teproc scummy... for now", etc. It's a very nicely disguied version of OMGUS coupled with some intimidation...
Why has the liopoil wagon disappeared ?
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Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.
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And I'm up to date.
So... I still like the liopoil lynch. It's not that town can't be nervous and overreact mind you, but liopoil isn't exactly the type, and he never stuck me as being particularly self-conscious either before (as either alignment, to be fair). His reaction... I suppose an indignant response would be what I'd expect from town, but the way liopoil is adressing me in particular strikes me as extremely scummy. He doesn't want to quite vote for me because he know it'll look OMGUSy, but he does leave the door open in case I persist. Basically now that I'm still pushing him, he's set himself up to vote for me and looking like I'm the one being unreasonable.
That's not how town thinks. Town wants to find scum, while scum is interested in the equilibrium of votes and getting people on their side or going after them. This is what liopoil is doing : not interested in finding out information, just interested in how the votes are going to go.
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Melisandre, ADK are super townie.
e and Ichi are townie.
Haddock and Awaclus are scummy-ish. Various reasons, but I can't remember anything by Haddock this game, and he's a player I tend to be find very interesting.
J Reggie (who disappeared once his wagon did) and liopoil are priority lynches.
Everyone else I'm null on, more or less. I need to reread Jan and fontisian : there should be some revealing stuff in there, Jan especially.
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When Melisandre/Charlton Heston observed e's inactivity, I was about to come in and say that scum!e would have felt more pressure to act and would probably have come up with a big townie-looking reread post by now. This reads pretty relaxed, but still, somewhat scummy.
Ok, e's rereads are looking pretty townie, and I usually hate them.
I noticed e had up'd his output too - I'll look at his posts tonight.
I'm having a lot of trouble reading Jan, and fontisian to a lesser extent. Obviously it's the not-knowing them, but I feel pretty strongly that Melisandre is town despite that now (I know there was that early thing, but every post since then has been super duper townie).
Funny you should mention them - I noted associations-galore between them (could be scum-theatre, could be innocent coincidence, so null on it for D1). I'm unlikely to spend time highlighting the 'uncomfortable' associations between those two slots, but will try to read them individually later.
Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.
I feel like A Drowned Kernel has been going from strength to strength as the game has gone on.
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Haddock:
Few posts, but some of them are pretty long. Is tunneling J Reggie pretty hard. His reads seem kind of floaty, like he doesn't quite know where he's landed yet. I would like to see more from him but he's landed on town for now. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Yeah I'm really struggling to contribute here. Gonna try to put something in tonight, right now I'm taking a break from writing a talk.
I wanna say: I'm not really tunnelling Reggie, I just voted him a while back and haven't had enough of a coherent thought about this game yet to find someone I really want to vote for.
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12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan
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I'm starting to wonder if rejecting townreads isn't actually a towntell here.
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Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.
That was not why you read him town initially, he made his big townpost after you said it. Unless I am missing it and he made one before the one he made lately.
I accept the townread in itself, but i am still curious why you read him towny before he made that list.
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Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.
That was not why you read him town initially, he made his big townpost after you said it. Unless I am missing it and he made one before the one he made lately.
I accept the townread in itself, but i am still curious why you read him towny before he made that list.
The reads list is just a very obvious example of it for everyone, but I got that right away. It's hard to define, it's something I get from having played a lot with him, but whenever he's scum his posts are always feel wrong, to me.
ADK did post a link where I was wrong about that (thinking he was scum when he was not), but I've also caught him three times this way, one of which was pretty recently. I don't think I've been wrong the other way around ? Apparently I've often been scum when he was town, so I suppose that helps. In any case my track record is enough for me to trust my gut when it comed to him, at least the first few days.
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12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan
It's fine. I don't enjoy this game as much as I should, because you guys are so stuck up on your meta that you are unable to read anything new. Not faulting you for it because it is something most of you do (which means it is not only the scum between you).
If it comes to the point that i need to claim, then i will do that and leave you guys with my legacy if need be (you know some parts of it, but some things changed recently). Fairly busy at the moment with personal things, but we have like 24 hours or something till EoD, so that is more than enough time to resolve that part. (I don't see a lot of people siding with me, which makes it unlikely that anyone but me will be the lynch at the end of the day.
The sad part is that it will be the 2nd time that i actually get misslynched ever, and both games silver rolled scum. (@fonti I do not count the witchhunt where i suicided myself d1 as gambler, because I asked to get lynched to become an angel and noone at the time thought i was scum)
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Not sure why gkrieg and Haddock are in there. I just forgot everything about them for a minute and so added them. The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet.
This is at least the 4th or 5th threat liopoil makes re: me. It's all "well, we'll see if Teproc changes his mind when he comes back", or "well I'm not findin Teproc scummy... for now", etc. It's a very nicely disguied version of OMGUS coupled with some intimidation...
Why has the liopoil wagon disappeared ?
Read my posts, nowhere do I even suggest that I have a scumread on you. I don't. Well, I didn't, but now you're here so I can get a read on you, so there's a chance I might soon. We'll see. I've been saying this from the start.
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12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan
It's fine. I don't enjoy this game as much as I should, because you guys are so stuck up on your meta that you are unable to read anything new. Not faulting you for it because it is something most of you do (which means it is not only the scum between you).
If it comes to the point that i need to claim, then i will do that and leave you guys with my legacy if need be (you know some parts of it, but some things changed recently). Fairly busy at the moment with personal things, but we have like 24 hours or something till EoD, so that is more than enough time to resolve that part. (I don't see a lot of people siding with me, which makes it unlikely that anyone but me will be the lynch at the end of the day.
The sad part is that it will be the 2nd time that i actually get misslynched ever, and both games silver rolled scum. (@fonti I do not count the witchhunt where i suicided myself d1 as gambler, because I asked to get lynched to become an angel and noone at the time thought i was scum)
I don't like this giving up. The only wincon-motivation I can see is if you are scum pulling the AtE card. And I like to assume people play to their wincons.
Also, I think you are wrong about the reliance on meta here.
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Also, have you read my response to Teproc? Ignoring it is just dodging accountability. Same for ADK.
Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.
Interesting point on Teproc. I'm still waiting to reserve final judgement until he responds to my later posts.
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
Not sure why gkrieg and Haddock are in there. I just forgot everything about them for a minute and so added them. The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet.
You'll see that I didn't say you have a scumread on me : I'm saying you're laying the groundwork to do so if I don't back off, so that it doesn't look like OMGUS.
Here's the thing : why would you wait for me to respond to express a read ? It's not like I hadn't said anything up to that point. Maybe my response will change your mind, but why would you not state your read yet ? If we always waited for new information before giving reads, we wouldn't get anywhere... because you're not trying to get anywhere, that's why.
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snip
I've been townreading you so far but I find your resignation to your lynch somewhat suspicious. The lynch is still very much up in the air as far as I'm concerned, but it's scum-indicative (to borrow Melis's phrasing) that you feel that your lynch is inevitable.
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And I'm up to date.
So... I still like the liopoil lynch. It's not that town can't be nervous and overreact mind you, but liopoil isn't exactly the type, and he never stuck me as being particularly self-conscious either before (as either alignment, to be fair). His reaction... I suppose an indignant response would be what I'd expect from town, but the way liopoil is adressing me in particular strikes me as extremely scummy. He doesn't want to quite vote for me because he know it'll look OMGUSy, but he does leave the door open in case I persist. Basically now that I'm still pushing him, he's set himself up to vote for me and looking like I'm the one being unreasonable.
That's not how town thinks. Town wants to find scum, while scum is interested in the equilibrium of votes and getting people on their side or going after them. This is what liopoil is doing : not interested in finding out information, just interested in how the votes are going to go.
And I'm up to date.
So... I still like the liopoil lynch. It's not that town can't be nervous and overreact mind you, but liopoil isn't exactly the type, and he never stuck me as being particularly self-conscious either before (as either alignment, to be fair). His reaction... I suppose an indignant response would be what I'd expect from town, but the way liopoil is adressing me in particular strikes me as extremely scummy. He doesn't want to quite vote for me because he know it'll look OMGUSy, but he does leave the door open in case I persist. Basically now that I'm still pushing him, he's set himself up to vote for me and looking like I'm the one being unreasonable.
That's not how town thinks. Town wants to find scum, while scum is interested in the equilibrium of votes and getting people on their side or going after them. This is what liopoil is doing : not interested in finding out information, just interested in how the votes are going to go.
My read on you is contingent on how you react, not if you change or not. I leave the door open because I had no way of deciding whether to close or walk through it yet.
I'm honestly not sure where people see nervous or overreaction, even self-conscious. All I see is a towny defending himself while being aware of how people are reading him.
I think others will find (from a more neutral perspective) that my posts are indeed quite interested in who's scum rather than who's getting lynched.
PPE: oops yeah you didn't say that sorry.
The very little you had said so far was not substantial, just a poorly supported case. I could only form a null to a maybe very slight scum read on you. There were some specific things I said that I wanted you to respond to. I'll pull them up in a minute...
Waiting for information was fair because at the moment I was posting plenty and you were not. And I had a specific thing in mind.
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Oops, double quote. Also thought it would be nice to see what happens if you knew I was basing my read off what you say. So far you've responded to thah in an infortunate but mostly towny way.
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Vote Count 1.8
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (2): Roadrunner7671, Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 23 hours.
A heads up that I may not be around for the deadline, in which case the flip (if any) will be delayed an hour or two.
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snip
I've been townreading you so far but I find your resignation to your lynch somewhat suspicious. The lynch is still very much up in the air as far as I'm concerned, but it's scum-indicative (to borrow Melis's phrasing) that you feel that your lynch is inevitable.
Believe what you want i have been awake for 20 hours. need tog et up early tomorrow and have no time to fight it right now.
Half of you guys are unable to read me, the other half says the will do it later, when getting reads on those people should be the most important thing to do by far now.
I could explain every little detail of my play, but not now. maybe tomorrow when i get hope, but that is msot likely to late unless people are around for a CFD.
My two hardest scumreads at the moment (lio/e) are both on my wagon, with my townflip you should have a way easier time reading the wagon and try to find the scum.
Look at the people and their reasoning for why they are voting me. Most of it is poor reasoning and just excuses.
(He will hate me for saying that) but the towniest vote on me is haddock who is afraid that i am buddying him.
Reggie is just pure excuses. He votes for me because he doesn't have any meta and justr eads everything i do as scummy, which would be fine, but he doesn't even mention his read on E which should be the one to compare it to. If he has good reasons to townread E for meta then it is fine, but what he wrote is not good. (and that is the 2nd towniest vote because he is jsut new and might not know any better, him talking about meta when he hasn't finished a single game is still kinda weird to me).
SS is just .. I don't know rubbing me the wrong way with a lot, but i am slightly afraid that it is just omgus on my part. (in the nearest sense of the word, bwcause him not reading me town means that he just sounds if he is town, which makes him more likely mafia)
E .. i explained my reasoning. fonti explained hers. I have no idea why a single person in this game would believe him to be town.
Lio is also highly suspect. The only difference is that he sounds like a less experience player just with the way he acts, which makes him possible dumb town.
Not sure if anyone else is voting me right now. If so then their reason was so bland that i forgot it.
/rant.
Have fun goodnight.
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Sorry I might not get around to this today. Packing and moving taking up much more time than I thought
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Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?
Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.
The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.
This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?
vote: Jan
you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.
You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.
This post makes me want to vote Jan.
Jan's defence/reply makes me feel better about his slot though: (Post #668 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604403#msg604403)) Jan's reasons for keeping his vote on liopoil and not on fontisian sound well thought out.
I haven't liked fontisian's vibe this game but this looks like a player comfortable with the attention on herself:
I like to be interesting.
I had a gut read on Jan, then I liked the case on liopoil, then I stopped liking it and went back to my previous vote of Jan, who happened to have more votes now. It's pretty simple. The only wagon I hopped on was liopoil.
Yup that is shamelessly "simple" ;D - with no attempt to flower it up with reasons. WIFOM tells me to like this.
Nothing jumps out scummy/contradictory with 2.71828's four reads on liopoil (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604552#msg604552), A Drowned Kernel (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604555#msg604555), Jan (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604560#msg604560) and gkrieg13 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604572#msg604572). However, I was intrigued by his "shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town." comment.
2.71828 sounds offended by Jan's attack on his reads-list (Post #695 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585)) - I'm town-leaning this sensitivity. 2.71828 isn't afraid to follow up his disgust with a vote on Jan too (Post #696 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604588#msg604588)).
Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
Not sure why gkrieg and Haddock are in there. I just forgot everything about them for a minute and so added them. The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet.
liopoil is open to many lynches, even players he's not scum-reading ;D Does not scum-liopoil care about the backlash? Clearly not. He is happy to openly admit he'd support information lynches. Wouldn't scum be more cautious here?
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Either he gives the townread for the list without reading it, which means he is bad (oh look a wall of text that has to be town) or he knows i am town because he is scum.
Ok, I can see what you're saying:
- 2.71828 rushed out a town-read on you (a naive skim-read read?)
- 2.71828 flipped on his town-read on you to a scum-read (despite liking parts of your very same post)
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening.
Is scum-2.71828 more likely to react in this way?
Yes, on the surface the dramatic switch looks very bad as either alignment: (scum-bad-OMGUS), but is it just town-bad? I.e does scum-2.71828 really dump his scum-reads to enter an emotionally-charged attack on you... someone he'd just said he was loving the reads/posts of? [I'd need convincing there. Right now, I'm thinking town incensed-2.71828.]
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I think Jan's flailing makes him more likely to be scum. He was all but a guaranteed lynch before he made that post - e was only 1 lynch behind. Now though? Pretty sure I don't want to move.
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*1 vote
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I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
Why is silverspawn scum? (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/185/5/d/rushing_dash_by_raidho36-d3kzvuy.gif)
I am not sure this near-deadline vote is doing anything :-\
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Haddock may have been promoted to null-town-lean with this comment - it carries an air of 'honesty' to it.
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I mean I even SAID that you were going to find it scummy. There literally is no towny response to that question, so I said it was stupid. And I knew RR what going to post exactly what he did, that I dodged the question, so I posted again. Like, what the heck am I supposed to do.
The above is defensive, but my original posts were not, they were dismissive of what is a ridiculous way to scumhunt. Let me demonstrate:
Teproc: Are you scum?
Note that no matter what you say I will be finding a way to interpret it as scummy. Because, your whole argument rests on the idea that only scum cares about how they look, which is just false. But my original posts even show that I didn't care that much, since this reaction was soooo predictable. I could have just said 'no' and moved on, but personally I would find that to be a much more scummy response.
Teproc do you have anything more to say with regard to this post?
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I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
Why is silverspawn scum? (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/185/5/d/rushing_dash_by_raidho36-d3kzvuy.gif)
I am not sure this near-deadline vote is doing anything :-\
I don't want to vote Jan now for at least a day, purely based on the fact that I haven't played with him before. I don't like the liopoil case, and everyone but me thinks ADK is town. Well, I have no choice really but to vote SS, who has been consistently scum in every game I've been in so far lately.
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My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
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My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
!!!
Is it the one I found?
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OK, time for to catch up via a player-by-player reread:
liopoil:
There's a lot going on with liopoil, and some strong emotional reactions. I'm not really used to that from him, but I haven't played in that many games with him. I have a hard time understanding we're he's coming from a lot of the time, and his posts seem to contain a lot of contradictions. The easy explanation is that's because he's scum and his stances are fabricated, but it might be town and approaching the game differently than me.
Notable posts:
439 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603640#msg603640) stood out to me because of the hedgey position on RR. He feels it's important to point out that he didn't explicitly townread RR, then says that he does in fact townread RR.
201, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) 446, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603654#msg603654) and 448 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603658#msg603658) stand out because he gives an RVS baiting post (null) but carries it over to far after actual discussion has begun, then immediately backs off on it. It's scummy for a couple of reasons: first, I would expect town to have forgotten about/dropped their baiting by that point, and second, the immediate unvoting suggests that he was feeling self-conscious about it.
570 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604098#msg604098) and the next post, there's not a whole lot to say except that liopoil looks extremely self-conscious. His following posts seem frustrated which can come as easily from town as from scum but it's the original reaction that's important.
601 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604237#msg604237) this might just be a playstyle disagreement but I don't like that's he's discouraging voting as a means of applying pressure.
623 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604317#msg604317) I don't think his analysis of his wagon is bad, although he does some overly hesitant to outright call anyone scum. But I don't like the last line, I find trying to direct conversation like that scummy. Your wagon is what's happening, people have a right to discuss it and give their thoughts and pursue it.
697 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604589#msg604589) is a weird lynchpool, and 704 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604618#msg604618) is frankly bizarre. What's a lynchpool if not a list of players you find at least somewhat scummy? Are you willing to lynch players you have a townread on?
Summary: Hedgey, self-conscious, weird. Status: Would lynch.
gkrieg:
Other than his stream-of-consciousness posts, almost all of his posts are one or two lines long. He puts a lot of things in terms of “I like this” or “I don't like that” without much elaboration into his thought process. Honestly it reads as towny; scum bends over backwards to justify themselves. He pokes and prods and seems generally engaged, if overly reluctant to commit to actual reads.
Notable posts:
420 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603569#msg603569) something about this post and his whole consideration of the Seprix/Melis/me situation reads towny to me. He seems like he's very engaged in the situation and working to form reads.
528, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603955#msg603955) 529 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603956#msg603956) again, gkrieg is brief with his posts but does seem like he has something to say.
Summary: Natural, engaged, doesn't seem forced. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Fontisian:
After a strong initial post, seems to take a long time to get into the game. Brusque reactions to a lot of things, willing to put herself out there. A little on the lurky side, and seems to be more reactive than proactive. Not putting a whole lot of her own reads out there, but the ones that she does are strong reads, which I think ends up as towny.
Notable posts:
496 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603793#msg603793) this sort of analysis looks towny.
620 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604306#msg604306) is one of those posts that's so towny, it's scummy. But I don't think that it could be coaching, scum generally knows better than to do that kind of thing. If anything it makes me think that lio and font are less likely to be partners.
657 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604372#msg604372) and on the flip side, this is one of those things that's so scummy it couldn't possibly be coming from actual scum.
Summary: Slightly lurky, but forward and willing to stand by her opinions. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Silverspawn:
A lot of well though-out analysis. I don't 100% agree with all of it, but he's very engaged with the game and is one of my strongest townreads on this reread so far. Has a very relaxed tone, talks a bit about things unrelated to the game.
Notable posts:
514 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850) the big reread. This kinds of posts aren't impossible to fake as scum and silver is absolutely a good enough player to do so, but it makes me not want to vote for him today.
561, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604033#msg604033) 611 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604252#msg604252) Silver gives IG a townread but is soon after willing to question IG's flop on Teproc. Towny; scum isn't so quick to change reads.
655 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604369#msg604369) Silver's reasoning seems spot on here. I like what I see.
Summary: On the ball, engaged, relaxed. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
RR:
Eh. Pretty typical Roadrunner stuff. Says a bunch of stuff that would scummy coming from anyone else. Completely misunderstands RVS and seems to be playing a different game than everyone else (not a different mafia game, like he's playing parcheesi or something). But I like the whole liopoil thing, and he does have enough actual content that I don't want to lynch him.
Notable posts:
627, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604323#msg604323) 630 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604326#msg604326) does a good job of explaining himself against pressure.
Summary: Typical Roadrunner. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Melisandre:
Bold play, not afraid of controversy, lot of poking of players and looking for reactions. Seems to put a lot of consideration into his reads. Asks a lot of pointed questions, and seems to genuinely consider the answers. Confident, conversational, flippant at times with his reaction gifs. Another strong townread.
Notable posts:
617, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604298#msg604298) one of the few Melis posts I didn't like. At that point I think the lio situation demanded a stance, or at least a good explanation for not taking a side, rather than humor.
Status: Bold, confident. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Also:
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
When are you going to start playing?
hahahahahahaha
Seprix:
Was very active at the start of the game, then gets a little lurkier. I like his early argument with Melis but my town read fades as I read him as the day goes on. I would like to see more commited reads from him on people who aren't Melisandre.
Notable posts:
457 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603685#msg603685) do you have a read on liopoil?
516 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603859#msg603859) do you have a read on silverspawn?
589 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604218#msg604218) do you have a read on IG?
Summary: Somewhat lurky, and a strong shift in playstyle throughout the day. Status: Would lynch.
Hydrad:
A grand total of three four posts. There's seriously almost nothing here. Even Hydrad isn't usually this lurky, right?
Summary: Super lurker. Status: Would lynch.
Awaclus:
Ok, I'm going to try and overcome my Awaclus-bias here.
Typically closed-mouthed. I guess he finds Seprix scummy! I'm not expecting him to explain why. Although if he was town, I would expect more people would be pushing his lynch, since being anti-Awaclus is so easy, so I think that's worth at least a scumlean.
Summary: Awaclus. Status: Would lynch.
Yeah, couldn't overcome it.
J Reggie:
Seems relaxed. Seems very aware of people's metas for a newer player. I'll admit he's a bit enigmatic to me, I'm pretty much null on him. Is little shifty, willing to change his votes a lot. Well, there's a few posts that do look towny:
305 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603329#msg603329) willing to change his mind without making a big deal about it.
480 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603740#msg603740) the tone of this feels relaxed and towny.
570 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604169#msg604169) the original liopoil vote is pretty bold, especially from a new player.
The one thing that still stands out to me is this:
314 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603340#msg603340) J Reggie: why was gkrieg, specifically, on this list? He had made barely any posts by that point.
Summary: Hanging back, but relaxed. Not the townies but not the scummiest. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Haddock:
Few posts, but some of them are pretty long. Is tunneling J Reggie pretty hard. His reads seem kind of floaty, like he doesn't quite know where he's landed yet. I would like to see more from him but he's landed on town for now. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Ichimaru Gin:
Fairly quiet for Ichi, although I suppose no one's put any pressure on him so we haven't had the classic Ichi blow-up yet. Does seem to get more involved as the day goes on, especially in his interactions with liopoil. The turn-around there makes me lean town for now.
327, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603355#msg603355) 547 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603991#msg603991) casual, gut-based votes for people who don't currently have big wagons on them. Towny.
608 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604245#msg604245) again, casual, conversational. Towny.
Summary: Casual, a little quiet. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
e:
Not really liking what I see here. OMGUS's hard against Jan, doesn't seem to have strong opinions on anyone else. A lot of his early posts seem kind of empty and forced. e's usually more on the ball than this I think.
Notable posts:
282, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603298#msg603298) 494['url] this kind of empty posting is odd from e.
[url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604193#msg604193]583 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603778#msg603778) this reread list seems kind of lazy and faked to me.
Summary: Removed, disengaged, reactive. Status: Would lynch.
Jan:
Somewhat abrasive. Asks a lot of questions, prods people a lot. Seems to focus his attention on the people he's already played with, but that's understandable.
500 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603798#msg603798) Jan/fontisian looks like town fighting town to me.
668 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604403#msg604403) a very involved explanation of his reasoning. I buy it as a genuine explanation of his thought process, even if I disagree with the conclusion.
690 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604575#msg604575) massive player-by-player reread. Those are, like, super towny.
Summary: Abrasive, proactive, opinionated. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Teproc:
Teproc is always next to impossible for me to read, but I'm leaning town here. He's reserved and rational. He went out on a limb with the liopoil thing. Another player that I want a little more from at this point.
376 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603433#msg603433) I feel like Teproc should get that what Melis was doing (or was claiming to have done) was posted the reads list as a reaction test. But eh.
575 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604147#msg604147) for me what stands out as towny about this is the “this is going to look ridiculous, but...” line. Scum's going to try and be super confident in their reads. Teproc also I think tries to present himself as super rational as scum, and wouldn't qualify his vote like that.
Summary: Reserved, fairly typical of his meta. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
So my lynchpool looks like:
liopoil, Hydrad, Awaclus, Seprix, e. The liopoil read is probably the strongest, with e after that, and I think those would be the most informative lynches. I'm going to go with
Vote: e
Sorry for reposting a long thing, but I'm on mobile. This was by far easier.
It's bolded, near the top.
PPE: Probably not.
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Yeah, I don't think that's a scum slip. And I want an ADK lynch. Nice try though. :)
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Yeah, I don't think that's a scum slip. And I want an ADK lynch. Nice try though. :)
What's your ADK scumslip?
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Vote: Liopoil
Tired of messing around. I'm about to get 2 VP and a bunch of Golds.
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Vote: Liopoil
Tired of messing around. I'm about to get 2 VP and a bunch of Golds.
because we are going to completely discard your reads?
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Vote: Liopoil
Tired of messing around. I'm about to get 2 VP and a bunch of Golds.
...I don't get it, but just to be safe I'm revealling watchtower.
Oh, Tunnel. I should play more Dominion.
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Yes, yes, OMGUS post because you voted me, whatever. I said the excuse already, and it's not the reason.
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
It feels like you're trying and looking hard for some good reason to curtail what I'm doing. Why are you so worried about people getting pressured? What if the people putting the pressure on are scumhunting? And what if the people calling for that to stop are scum...?
Seriously, this 'reason' for me being scum just feels like you're trying to find some justification to vote for me.
This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll
No, this is good.
But wait, you're okay with the pressure going on here... But you're not over there.
It's not a scum slip as much as it is an inconsistency, but apparently I'm wrong, so whatever.
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Vote: Liopoil
Tired of messing around. I'm about to get 2 VP and a bunch of Golds.
because we are going to completely discard your reads?
Mark my words homie. You may be the certified Mafia player, but I'm the only guy who hasn't gone under any fore by anyone.
I'm basically an IC.
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I'm basically an IC.
Oh hoh ho, those are big mighty words.
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I'm basically an IC.
Oh hoh ho, those are big mighty words.
If everyone has a town read on you, you have achieved IC status. Of course, I'll lose it when I botch a fake claim people decide I did a thing and I can't defend myself, but it happens.
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Be careful before you draw to conclusions. Last I checked, you can't even draw a card, Scout.
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Be careful before you draw to conclusions. Last I checked, you can't even draw a card, Scout.
Vote: Seprix
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Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
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Dude, I was making a joke because your favorite card is Scout.
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And to think that just a minute ago you were dropping smiley emojis and prancing around because you finally got someone to join your hopeless ADK case. But noooooo, Seprix has to cut all ties.
See you in the speccy.
Dayvig: Seprix
PPE
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Dude, I was making a joke because your favorite card is Scout.
Oops.
Undayvig: Seprix
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Am I missing something?
PPE: 1
I'm not sure how what Seprix said could be construed as an insult.
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I didn't mean to make you upset at any rate.
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No, I'm not upset.
I assumed you were making a crack at the assumption that Scout can't draw cards because of Victory Cards or whatnot.
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No, I'm not upset.
I assumed you were making a crack at the assumption that Scout can't draw cards because of Victory Cards or whatnot.
I was.
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No, I'm not upset.
I assumed you were making a crack at the assumption that Scout can't draw cards because of Victory Cards or whatnot.
I was.
Redayvig: Seprix
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Scout is the worst card in the game. I'm sorry, RR. I have to confess it. You can file for a divorce now.
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No, I'm not upset.
I assumed you were making a crack at the assumption that Scout can't draw cards because of Victory Cards or whatnot.
I was.
And that breaks the civility pledge!?
PPEs
-
Anyways, back to the game. I've distracted long enough. I don't like the case on Jan much, and I'll explain why, let me pull some quotes.
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I'm not sure that joking about the civility pledge (I believe that's what was going on) is entirely appropriate. But maybe that's just me...
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I'm not sure that joking about the civility pledge (I believe that's what was going on) is entirely appropriate. But maybe that's just me...
It's probably not. Hopefully the mod doesn't notice.
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Well, I thought you were serious and I had missed something like really bad, but again, maybe that's just me.
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So since IG is here, I'll mine as well reread him.
He seems to be trying to distract us by joking anout the civility pledge, so I'll have to remember that during my careful analysis.
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I actually really liked this read from Jan. I guess it's bias, but other than the liopoil bit, I really agree with him on a lot of what he said.
Well, I thought you were serious and I had missed something like really bad, but again, maybe that's just me.
I thought he was serious too for a second.
So since IG is here, I'll mine as well reread him.
He seems to be trying to distract us by joking anout the civility pledge, so I'll have to remember that during my careful analysis.
You've got to be tied with schadd as one of my most favoritest users on f.ds
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So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
And guess what? That makes SS unbelievably scummy. I'm not sure if I can really explain this, but he got all the towncred for pointing out a 'slip' that clearly isn't a slip, so IG gets nothing, but ss still gets that towncred...
And you know what they say! Only scum tries to get town cred!
Vote: silverspawn
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So since IG is here, I'll mine as well reread him.
He seems to be trying to distract us by joking anout the civility pledge, so I'll have to remember that during my careful analysis.
I'm just a simple man that takes some things at face value, why must you torment me so :'(
PPEs: I've given up on trying to understand how you guys operate...
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I'm actually a little surprised RR has so much town cred. Usually, joking excessively is a scum tell.
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You've got to be tied with schadd as one of my most favoritest users on f.ds
<3
But I'll never be able to compete with schadd. I represent the unpopular opinion that people don't want to hear, which drives people away. They don't want to hear that they're wrong.
PPE 2-one is about me being scum!
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I'm actually a little surprised RR has so much town cred. Usually, joking excessively is a scum tell.
He has town cred? Huh, I didn't notice.
Why shouldn't we lynch him?
PPEs
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I'm actually a little surprised RR has so much town cred. Usually, joking excessively is a scum tell.
So?
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I'm actually a little surprised RR has so much town cred. Usually, joking excessively is a scum tell.
He has town cred? Huh, I didn't notice.
Why shouldn't we lynch him?
PPEs
And there goes my IC status. Thanks IG :'(
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I'm basically an IC.
Oh hoh ho, those are big mighty words.
If everyone has a town read on you, you have achieved IC status. Of course, I'll lose it when I botch a fake claim people decide I did a thing and I can't defend myself, but it happens.
This is not what IC status means, and your latest posts are mildly scummy in my book.
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My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
*votes for ss*
I agree with meli; you and seprix should move your votes.
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Just don't lynch me for like 17 hours. Come on, I want to make it through D1 as town for once!
PPE
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My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
*votes for ss*
I agree with meli; you and seprix should move your votes.
I've moved my vote three times in the past 30 minutes!
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guys....RR just went crazy. I don't know what to do.
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Just don't lynch me for like 17 hours. Come on, I want to make it through D1 as town for once!
PPE
Oh hey that snuck up quick. I'll be here a bit before the deadline, but not that much before. See you all tomorrow...
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guys....RR just went crazy. I don't know what to do.
What did I do??
If you think this is crazy, you're in for a treat on D3 (assuming I live that long)...
PPE
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Anyway, I don't see this coming from anything but town!RR. So yeah, you will live to D3. I will prepare.
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guys....RR just went crazy. I don't know what to do.
What did I do??
If you think this is crazy, you're in for a treat on D3 (assuming I live that long)...
PPE
I went and +1'ed this post:
1
-
And yeah. I wasn't tracking the deadline all that well. I still like my Jan vote.
-
Anyway, I don't see this coming from anything but town!RR. So yeah, you will live to D3. I will prepare.
I remember in Desperation Mafia, I pulled this really crazy thing where I did my stupid fake claim as usual then got super weird and indignant when I assumed people though my IQ was -3 but they were just as confused as I was and I got lynched. And I was scum.
So don't give me a town pass just because I make weird posts late at night.
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guys....RR just went crazy. I don't know what to do.
What did I do??
If you think this is crazy, you're in for a treat on D3 (assuming I live that long)...
PPE
I went and +1'ed this post:
1
Thanks, but why?
-
Anyway, I don't see this coming from anything but town!RR. So yeah, you will live to D3. I will prepare.
I remember in Desperation Mafia, I pulled this really crazy thing where I did my stupid fake claim as usual then got super weird and indignant when I assumed people though my IQ was -3 but they were just as confused as I was and I got lynched. And I was scum.
So don't give me a town pass just because I make weird posts late at night.
Wait I was town in desperation Mafia. People just told me I was scum so much that I started to believe it myself :'(
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So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
And guess what? That makes SS unbelievably scummy. I'm not sure if I can really explain this, but he got all the towncred for pointing out a 'slip' that clearly isn't a slip, so IG gets nothing, but ss still gets that towncred...
And you know what they say! Only scum tries to get town cred!
Vote: silverspawn
This actually makes sense
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No, it doesn't.
I'd like to point out that Jan is trying hard to solve the game and e is hardly doing anything.
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I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
Why is silverspawn scum? (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/185/5/d/rushing_dash_by_raidho36-d3kzvuy.gif)
I am not sure this near-deadline vote is doing anything :-\
I don't want to vote Jan now for at least a day, purely based on the fact that I haven't played with him before. I don't like the liopoil case, and everyone but me thinks ADK is town. Well, I have no choice really but to vote SS, who has been consistently scum in every game I've been in so far lately.
Hi.
What does the bolded mean?
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I will townread RoadRunner to help him towards his inno child status.
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Wow, so we're getting close to the deadline and I still don't have any solid scum reads. I still think Jan is the way to go, but I could be persuaded otherwise. I'm not sure why Teproc
is bussing me so hard reads me as scum. Does anyone else?
We don't have plurality lynch do we? This is going to be difficult.
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And yeah. I'm going to sleep now. I will in all likelihood be around for the deadline. I am slightly worried that my scumread on Jan is related to being unfamiliar with his playstyle. I do know that the way Mafia is played differs from site to site as well. Any info on this would be appreciated.
I actually don't feel like lynching Seprix right now. Surprises me even!
Seems like there hasn't been a vote count in a while...
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Oh -- and Roadrunner -- I'm not your nemesis anymore, right?
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I hope this is town!RR because he's playing a better town game now than he usually is.
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Vote Count 1.9
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (1): Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 11 hours.
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Holy crap! Deadline in 11 hours?
How did that happen?
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OK, OK. Let me think for a bit.
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Of Jan and e, I think e is more likely to be town. I don't really want those to be the only choices though; my read on Jan is weaksauce.
Silver is probably town.
I could probably go for Seprix or liopoil if that became a thing; I guess I have to leave my vote where it is for now. But this is not ideal.
Man I feel like this game only just started, I never have gotten into it, there's just too many people.
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Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.
Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.
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Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.
Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.
OK.
Let's try vote: liopoil. I don't think he's been very towny.
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So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
I don't even know what you're referring to
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I can get behind liopoil.
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@Hydrad - are you struggling to express your thoughts / reads this game... or finding it difficult to interact with players?
Do you have weak reads? At the moment it looks like you don't want any confrontation - i.e no one to counter your scum-reads/votes. [That playstyle makes me paranoid].
Why are you voting fontisian right now?
This is the only read/reason you have fully expressed/explained:
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
You are on the wrong side of null for me at the moment.
Null scum lean.
catching up again.
Basically I hadn't really planned on joining a mafia game as I don't know if I have much time for it right now. But I forgot that I signed up for this and I didn't want to delay it by outing so I'm trying to stay in and keep playing.
Its also more active then most games I feel like around here so it feels hard for me to keep up as I'm usually pretty lurky anyways. (although I will admit this is a new low for me right now :/. )
as for my vote on fontisian. Its mainly a gut feeling right now. we will see though as I haven't read the next few pages that I've missed if something changes.
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and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
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and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
You said it was fun before.
1) How is it 'fun'?
2) How is this acceptable?
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Haddock and RR: You have both Jan and me as scummy. Certainly that doesn't mean you think we are scumbuddies, but what do you make of our interactions?
You all tried to lynch me once today. It's not going to work this time either.
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Vote: liopoil
If Seprix isn't happening.
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vote: liopoil looks good to me.
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Haddock and RR: You have both Jan and me as scummy. Certainly that doesn't mean you think we are scumbuddies, but what do you make of our interactions?
You all tried to lynch me once today. It's not going to work this time either.
I have Jan as very mildly scummy. I'm really not convinced. I've just spent some time rereading and picked up some gut scumminess from you. Simple as that. It saddens me that that's the best I can do. But there you go. I really shouldn't play in games this huge.
I'm just trying to explore other options. Jan is an OK lynch, but the other options currently are not. At all.
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You can do way better than this. From my perspective it seems obvious that the scum narrative for me horribly contrived. e and fontisian realize it, so do ss and Seprix. You all have stopped posting reasons because I've rebuked all of your points and you don't have anything to say in response. Feels like I'm just sort of the fallback lynch, "oh some people voiced support for lynching this guy", I guess it's better than nothing. That's just lazy. Most of the people voting for me are on the lower end of the post count too. I also predict that I'll become more towny as the game goes on; at least that's what usually happens. In lynching me you actively discourage llaying in a different way and encouraging playing the way scum would like to, that is, laid back and staying out of conflicts. Feels really weak to me.
I'll be back a half hour before deadline or so. I mean I guess I don't have too many votes right now, but there are definitely others who I expect to say "not my first choice, but sure". So I openly admit to pre-emptively defending myself.
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Nah, this picked up too easily.
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You all have stopped posting reasons because I've rebuked all of your points and you don't have anything to say in response.
You haven't rebuked any of my points.
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I'm actually not at all opposed to this wagon
but I like Jan even better.
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So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
I don't even know what you're referring to
RR?
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So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
I don't even know what you're referring to
Didn't see this. I'll quote it.
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I don't consider that thing about the flavor town slip even.
I knew you were sane. Let's be town buddies <3
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
But it's memorable right?
kinda
Sure <3
We will vanquish all the scums together!
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Someone else poined the slip out, not me. I just said that it wasn't a slip. And I don't know anyone who has given me towncred for it.
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It was JReggie. Here:
Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
It might be a purposeful misspelling of 'sure'?
It's a pun on the flavor of this game.
Oh, yeah... :-[
I kind of forgot what flavor the game was.
I guess this is a town-slip, maybe not. I feel like if you were mafia you would have been more aware of the flavor, and this doesn't seem like a thing you did on purpose. Although there's the whole debate over whether town-slips are real or not, but whatever.
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Vote Count 1.10
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, fontisian
liopoil (5): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Jan (4): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828.....
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 7.5 hours.
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Call it confirmation-bias, but I do not like the make-up of the liopoil wagon (namely the non-active voters Hydrad and Awaclus) - it makes me ever more distanced from this wagon.
@Hydrad/Awaclus
What are your feelings on 2.71828, Jan and silverspawn?
Right now, I am leaning Jan. To be honest, I have no firm scum-reads but I want a Jan roleclaim to hopefully help clear the picture...
Vote: Jan
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Call it confirmation-bias, but I do not like the make-up of the liopoil wagon (namely the non-active voters Hydrad and Awaclus) - it makes me ever more distanced from this wagon.
@Hydrad/Awaclus
What are your feelings on 2.71828, Jan and silverspawn?
My feelings are that I'm voting for liopoil instead of any of the people you mentioned.
Right now, I am leaning Jan. To be honest, I have no firm scum-reads but I want a Jan roleclaim to hopefully help clear the picture...
Vote: Jan
Why would you want a roleclaim?
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Vote Count 1.10
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, fontisian
liopoil (5): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Melisandre
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 7.5 hours.
[i added melis vote in there by hand to make it accurate]
Really interesting development, esp considering that I have all 3 other people as scumreads (varying degrees) of mine and all 3 other possible people are voting for me.
Just for the people voting me. Do you believe I am scum and my team decided to focus on several people at once as masterplan to not get me lynched?
I think the silverspawn wagon is likely to be pure (only 2 people on it, which makes it easier)
I think if e is town then fonti is the only possible scum on that wagon (she would side with me if those wagons were w/w. - e is/was pretty convinced gkrieg is scum, i am less sure now that i think adk is more town)
And lio wagon has teproc, haddock and ADK as very likely towns, while i am unsure about the other 2 (who are almost never together because of wagon position, and lack of reason).
I personally don't see their motivation to push a new wagon against e and myself.
Does anyone believe there is a world where e and myself are scum on the same team?
So why which reason does any scumteam have to focus their efforts and form a new wagon this close to End of Day?
They might split their votes up because they don't care if the wagons are v/v, but even then the motivation behind the lio wagon would be town (because the scumvotes votes would be split)
@Milsandre - explain to me why those two (Hydrad/Awaclus) as scum help push a wagon against e/myself?
Unless we are w/w and created the wagons ourselves (i could have just stayed on lio at the time and not call e out if we were partners), I do not see it.
Like I am sure we are not dealing with the smartest mafia team ever, but 2 scum helping to push an new wagon there is really pointless.
I am fine with lynching lio as well, but i am unsure about silver. As I said silvers play so far was underwhelming outside of the meta-infos, but i feel like there might be some omgus in there on my part.
Curious to hear what fonti would be doing if it got down to wagons lio against myself.
Like .. the way she agreed with killing e and her having a solid scumread on him means she just cannot believe i am scum at this point, but she also gave those weird early townreads on lio.
for right now.
Unvote
I have to read some more before i make up my mind. Going to the store will be back afterwards.
I should be around for EoD. Whatever else happens there should never be a no lynch d1. That is just taking away information from town.
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This resurgence of the liopoil wagon is interesting. I think Jan is a much better option than liopoil. I will be around on my phone all day to vote to get a lynch. Whatever we do, we need a lynch today.
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Right now, I am leaning Jan. To be honest, I have no firm scum-reads but I want a Jan roleclaim to hopefully help clear the picture...
(https://m.popkey.co/8a83e8/G058r.gif)
How would my claim help you "clear the picture"?
I can see how my flip might help, but a claim? If I am scum i am prone to lie, so you could not trust that.
And how would your picture change if my claim suddenly blows your mind?
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I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
Busyness should decrease by the start of the next day
vote: liopoil
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Why would you want a roleclaim?
No roleclaim, no lynch.
No roleclaim, no reactions from the active crowd.
@Milsandre - explain to me why those two (Hydrad/Awaclus) as scum help push a wagon against e/myself?
My concern was: I don't like how two in-active players have shown up late to join the liopoil wagon and ignored the other current wagons. My suspicion is telling me that there is currently a wagon on scum OR scum have been low on activity on D1 (both situations could be true too). I.e why are scum waiting for town to choose the D1 lynch?
If I was playing 'follow my town-reads', I would be on the liopoil wagon - thus, there is a limit to my confirmation-bias ;D
How would my claim help you "clear the picture"?
I can see how my flip might help, but a claim? If I am scum i am prone to lie, so you could not trust that.
And how would your picture change if my claim suddenly blows your mind?
You reacted a certain way to 3/4 votes on you. I wanted to see if that reaction tallied up with the roleclaim [you had almost given off an early vibe of self-resignation and defeat]. The most active players this game have also been engaged with you - so further reactions to your roleclaim would be good information. If multiple lurkers occupied your respective wagon, I would not be on it. As I said you are not a firm scum read so I want resolution ASAP.
[FYI: another part of my scum-lean read on you is based on your reaction to 2.71828's switch of read on you. I feel like you immediately jumped to the conclusion of scum-2.71828, without weighing up the possibility that town-2.71828 could have been equally incensed/variable to your parody-reads list.]
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and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
!!!! Hydrad!
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So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
That being said, I find jan's unvote interesting. He doesn't immediately jump on the liopoil wagon (which makes sense from a self preservation perspective). But he doesn't close the door on it either. Doesn't want to be on a mislynch?
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I don't like either major wagon here at all. I'd rather lynch e than lio or Jan.
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Why would you want a roleclaim?
No roleclaim, no lynch.
No roleclaim, no reactions from the active crowd.
No roleclaim, scum doesn't get to know who our PRs are.
My concern was: I don't like how two in-active players have shown up late to join the liopoil wagon and ignored the other current wagons.
I'm not inactive. Well, right now I'm pretty inactive by my usual standards because I'm more active on 4chan thanks to the recent release of the Girls und Panzer movie, but for the most part, I have been very actively reading the game and just choosing not to post anything. It's pretty easy to find evidence that suggests that I browse f.ds a shit ton in general.
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No roleclaim, scum doesn't get to know who our PRs are.
I forgot to add: yes, no roleclaims before *intent to hammer*.
If we lynch before a roleclaim, I would quit ;D
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5 hours to go.
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I'll be here.
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I'll be here.
I saw RR's case on silver. What was yours? This is all I see:
I need to consolidate my reads today.
I'd suggest we get a player to L-1 tonight - we'd then have plenty of time to chat about the claim/defence and build a new wagon if need be.
If there is a risk of a D1 no lynch, we lynch one of the lurkers.
I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
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Granted, I am on my phone and didn't do a thorough search
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I don't think I'll be here right at the deadline, so don't quicklynch me.
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I don't think I'll be here right at the deadline, so don't quicklynch me.
Ok.
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@Milsandre - explain to me why those two (Hydrad/Awaclus) as scum help push a wagon against e/myself?
My concern was: I don't like how two in-active players have shown up late to join the liopoil wagon and ignored the other current wagons. My suspicion is telling me that there is currently a wagon on scum OR scum have been low on activity on D1 (both situations could be true too). I.e why are scum waiting for town to choose the D1 lynch?
If I was playing 'follow my town-reads', I would be on the liopoil wagon - thus, there is a limit to my confirmation-bias ;D
I get that concern. I am unsure why they would wait this long to push a new wagon if they could have jumped on either me or E before this happened. (they were inactive but did they not post at all before they voted/the new wagon formed?!)
Unless you think we are both (E/myself) the same alignment there is little motivation to wait this long.
both town = they don't care who gets lynched and don't want the heat for pushing the misslynch
both scum = they have no idea what to do and are waiting for an opportune moment.
How would my claim help you "clear the picture"?
I can see how my flip might help, but a claim? If I am scum i am prone to lie, so you could not trust that.
And how would your picture change if my claim suddenly blows your mind?
You reacted a certain way to 3/4 votes on you. I wanted to see if that reaction tallied up with the roleclaim [you had almost given off an early vibe of self-resignation and defeat]. The most active players this game have also been engaged with you - so further reactions to your roleclaim would be good information. If multiple lurkers occupied your respective wagon, I would not be on it. As I said you are not a firm scum read so I want resolution ASAP.
[FYI: another part of my scum-lean read on you is based on your reaction to 2.71828's switch of read on you. I feel like you immediately jumped to the conclusion of scum-2.71828, without weighing up the possibility that town-2.71828 could have been equally incensed/variable to your parody-reads list.]
The reason for the vibe of self resignation and defeat was mostly because the thread consensus felt like "we don't know you, we can't read you. die."
Some people had actual scumreads and gave reasons, but a lot of people mentioned similar things in this regard.
And i can and will not fight that behavior. (I'd rather form a good legacy read and hope people will remember it when i am gone in that case).
His switch was scummy in the way he did it. his initial reaction with the switch felt like he knew i was town, but then felt like omgus reading me for my read on him.
He didn't bother to go against my read at the time, he just mocked it. Which is not just not towny.
The only reason i am becoming slightly iffy on that is that our wagons stayed stale for quite a while after that initial burst of votes.
Scum not commiting to kill me means we might be both town and they don't care. (Which means they would split or dodge the wagons).
That being said, I find jan's unvote interesting. He doesn't immediately jump on the liopoil wagon (which makes sense from a self preservation perspective). But he doesn't close the door on it either. Doesn't want to be on a mislynch?
Don't worry. As of right now I am fine with voting you or Lio. I would have to convince myself a little bit to vote silver. So you can my vote to either of you without any hesitation.
I unvoted you because our wagons being stale for a while was weird if you are scum, unless your partners are :
lurking hard or
are commited to side with me/not vote me/distance from you or
are already on me.
I would like everybody that is not voting me right now (and isn't IG) to realize that the person they are voting on/scumreading right now is voting me.
Unless they believe said person was bussing me in a position of the game where i was getting a lot of pressure, then I cannot be mafia for them.
(If anyone believe me to be scum with either lio or e, then they have no idea what is happening and haven't read the game. Silverspawn would be possible from an objective point of view)
Will read up for a little while now, also dipping into another game for like an hour soon. I am around for questions more or less.
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I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
Why is silverspawn scum? (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/185/5/d/rushing_dash_by_raidho36-d3kzvuy.gif)
I am not sure this near-deadline vote is doing anything :-\
I don't want to vote Jan now for at least a day, purely based on the fact that I haven't played with him before. I don't like the liopoil case, and everyone but me thinks ADK is town. Well, I have no choice really but to vote SS, who has been consistently scum in every game I've been in so far lately.
Not a very fantasticly good reason to vote SS, but no one has questioned him so far so I want to look into SS, and seriously, SS has been scum a lot lately.
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Seriously, guys. I hate a Jan lynch. I refuse to participate in an obvious town player mislynch.
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Seriously, guys. I hate a Jan lynch. I refuse to participate in an obvious town player mislynch.
If SS does not get lynched,because as of right now You don't have the votes.
Can you tell me your thoughts on E and lio?
Who do you think is more likely to be scum? Do you think they are both town or scum? Reasons.
What do you think about the people voting for lio at the moment?
For reference liopoil right now:
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13
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Vote: Liopoil
L-2
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Yeah, I think Jan has successfully talked me off his wagon. Well played, whichever your alignment. ;D
Unvote: Jan
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You know what, lynching Jan today is just an awful idea. I need more time to be able to accurately read Jan, and it's also mean. Unvote
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I'll be back a half hour before deadline or so. I mean I guess I don't have too many votes right now, but there are definitely others who I expect to say "not my first choice, but sure". So I openly admit to pre-emptively defending myself.
That time is now.
@liopoil - over to you. It appears you are the chosen D1 lynch.
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Jan actually has a really good point about the way these weapons formed.
vote: e
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Wagons*
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ss has been scum a lot lately.
True. Way too often. Which is why I was so glad to get town now.
But you do know that this doesn't change the probability of me rolling scum again, yes? They are independent. Rolling scum after rolling scum 10 times is as likely as rolling scum after rolling town ten times.
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Vote: Seprix
This guy:
Votes in batshit nowhere because "ss always roles mafia."
Insists Jan is town after the wagon has started to disolve.
Is unreasonable sure.
Doesn't actually vote to save Jan.
Uses the same wording in consecutive posts to express boredom and excuse his lack of activity, indicating that his emotion is fake.
Let's fucking go.
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Vote: seprix.
Jan isn't happening and I really am not feeling liopoil. Seprix is a good alternative wagon.
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Vote: seprix.
Jan isn't happening and I really am not feeling liopoil. Seprix is a good alternative wagon.
Why is this happening
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Vote: seprix.
Jan isn't happening and I really am not feeling liopoil. Seprix is a good alternative wagon.
Why is this happening
?
This isn't happening yet. It might be of more people vote
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Vote: Seprix
This guy:
Votes in batshit nowhere because "ss always roles mafia."
Insists Jan is town after the wagon has started to disolve.
Is unreasonable sure.
Doesn't actually vote to save Jan.
Uses the same wording in consecutive posts to express boredom and excuse his lack of activity, indicating that his emotion is fake.
Let's fucking go.
Let's look at your claims.
1. Votes in batshit nowhere because "ss always roles mafia."
That was not the only reason, and I said that reason was bad already. I wanted to look more into SS.
Insists Jan is town after the wagon has started to disolve.
Is it really dissolving though? I don't think it is.
Is unreasonable sure.
Prove it.
Doesn't actually vote to save Jan.
I don't like the liopoil case either, unless this is not what you meant.
Uses the same wording in consecutive posts to express boredom and excuse his lack of activity, indicating that his emotion is fake.
This is the only legitimate concern you have placed thus far, because I am bored. I haven't seen much of anything to look into so far in this game after the initial stuff.
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I am basically the worst town player of all time though, as liopoil, J Reggie, and Gkreig can agree to.
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Vote Count 1.11
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Seprix (2): fontisian, 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre, J Reggie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 3 hours and 41 minutes.
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Not what I was talking about.
I'm a little distressed that my other scumread is the first one to vote with me.
Seprix: You seek certain Jan is town. /I'm/ not certain Jan is town. Where is that certainty coming from and why did you get it /now/.
Re Jan wagon: Lio's wagon took the lead and half a dozen people have talked about not wanting to lynch Jan.
Why, if you are trying to look into ss, aren't you asking him questions, talking about his posts, or trying to convince other people to vote him?
And that gets to the protecting Jan point. You're calling him town, but you're not pushing any other vote.
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Vote: Seprix
This guy:
Votes in batshit nowhere because "ss always roles mafia."
Insists Jan is town after the wagon has started to disolve.
Is unreasonable sure.
Doesn't actually vote to save Jan.
Uses the same wording in consecutive posts to express boredom and excuse his lack of activity, indicating that his emotion is fake.
Let's fucking go.
The wagon started to dissolve AFTER he said that.
Look at the timing. Noone was actually defending me at the time, sure the lio wagon was building up, but i had the same votes.
I actually just got Melisandres vote and Melisandre started pushing on me at the time and asked for me to be put into L-1.
His intial defense was don't kill Jan or lio, kill E.
He then later said killing Jan is bad.
Why would you lie to me?
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The wagons were six-five against lio, with you having defenders and lio having none. Also, he's not voting e and only said that when the e wagon died.
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Vote Count 1.11
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (3): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Seprix (2): fontisian, 2.71828......
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 3 hours and 41 minutes.
I unvoted. Do I need to also state the player name?
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Not what I was talking about.
I'm a little distressed that my other scumread is the first one to vote with me.
Seprix: You seek certain Jan is town. /I'm/ not certain Jan is town. Where is that certainty coming from and why did you get it /now/.
Re Jan wagon: Lio's wagon took the lead and half a dozen people have talked about not wanting to lynch Jan.
Why, if you are trying to look into ss, aren't you asking him questions, talking about his posts, or trying to convince other people to vote him?
And that gets to the protecting Jan point. You're calling him town, but you're not pushing any other vote.
Legitimate questions I can answer. I cannot say that Jan is town 100%, but I do not like his wagon at all, because it is based on foolish presumptions and poor reasoning. Jan has been entirely reasonable throughout this game.
As for SS, I did not ask him questions or look into serious reasons for lynching him, yes. But SS is an incredibly good player, and you won't catch him just slipping up in posts. I wanted to start a wagon on him to see his reaction to it, but obviously that hasn't started yet.
I don't really know who to vote for so far, besides ADK, and nobody else wants an ADK vote. People are generally playing a good game.
PPS: I said I did not like the liopoil wagon already, and I've stated it before. Font is trying incredibly hard to find some kind of legitimate mislynch it seems.
Not to mention, I saw some reactions e had to the Jan/liopoil lynch (I forgot which, but I can find it) where I found it to be incredibly scummy, and I would not oppose an e lynch.
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Actually, I'll start here instead of a "useless" SS vote.
vote: e
Reasons in a moment.
-
How did you expect a wagon to form on ss without any reasoning?
And if you want an e lynch, then prove it.
Vote: e
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# anticlimactic
-
Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
-
Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
Talk to me about the why.
I have seen you play one time. I know you can use words.
The are not as good as mine, but they are still words.
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Seprix >>>> liopoil > Jan
Not going to be on any other wagon today.
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1. e has posted very little of actual substance throughout the entire game
Sure, he's voted for Seprix, gkreig, Hydrad, Jan, Seprix again, and sure he's made 1 or 2 readslists, but that's incredibly basic stuff.
2. e's reaction to Seprix
I go from scum to null-scum to town to scum again. Highly inconsistent.
3. e jumped on the Jan wagon
I think that Jan was a terrible wagon to begin with. Yes, Jan is a little tryhard with reads and content by perhaps overdoing it a bit, but that is overall much better than e has been doing throughout the game, which is basically very little.
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Seprix >>>> liopoil > Jan
Not going to be on any other wagon today.
I think you should switch to seprix in that case
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I didn't find that incredibly scummy post though. Man, let me go find it. I went through e's posts, so it wasn't him.
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So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
That being said, I find jan's unvote interesting. He doesn't immediately jump on the liopoil wagon (which makes sense from a self preservation perspective). But he doesn't close the door on it either. Doesn't want to be on a mislynch?
Before I continue with my search, this is not terrible by e. I can see this. I don't disagree with it.
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I unvoted. Do I need to also state the player name?
Fixed.
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Yes, Jan is a little tryhard with reads and content by perhaps overdoing it a bit
I would still lynch Jan, but I really don't get people pushing a "tryhard = scum" thing.
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I can't find it so far, someone was reacting to Jan and wrote something really odd. I actually think it was liopoil...
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Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
Talk to me about the why.
I have seen you play one time. I know you can use words.
The are not as good as mine, but they are still words.
The case I made on you still applies. Your reaction to being the biggest wagon was not good at all, you gave the impression of scum flailing in sight of your inevitable lynch, instead of town who tries to avoid a stupid mislynch. Your weird semi-tunneling of me without voting isn't good either.
e is a strong (relative to day1) townread for me. His reaction/flip is genuine, I've talked about that I believe
Seprix just seems to get himself into trouble unnecessarily, and his pushing of me is not good but weird as scum. I put him on the towny side of null.
and lio I don't really have a grasp on, but with how the others stand he's definitely between you and Seprix
-
and the way your wagon dissolved was weird, because your defense wans't towny at all. It could have been scum recognizing a chance to hop off.
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Man, I just can't find it at all. Sorry guys. :/
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and the way your wagon dissolved was weird, because your defense wans't towny at all. It could have been scum recognizing a chance to hop off.
Then who was the scum bussing me that jumped off?
There were 5 people voting me total.
3 jumped off.
Melisandre was on me for merely a minute and jumped on when the lio wagon was building (worst timing if he was my partner)
E is a strong townread for you.
That leaves .. Reggie. So you think reggie is a possible scum for jumping off?
I give you that his phrasing was weird, when voting and unvoting me.
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and lio I don't really have a grasp on, but with how the others stand he's definitely between you and Seprix
What is your opinion on the people voting lio right now?
Who is town who is possible scum?
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@Fontisian
Compare wagons with me.
E at his height :
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
you can add Seprix to that list since he is voting him now.
Lio at his height :
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel, gkrieg13,
you can interchange RR with ADK since they both voted lio.
Talk to me about the people on those wagons.
ADK and gkrieg being on both. (Feel free to add me to that list since i was voting lio before switching to E and would vote either at this moment)
What do you think of the people pushing lio and the timing of the push.
What do you get out of it?
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And yes i have my own opinions, but i want yours before i talk too much about it.
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and the way your wagon dissolved was weird, because your defense wans't towny at all. It could have been scum recognizing a chance to hop off.
Then who was the scum bussing me that jumped off?
There were 5 people voting me total.
3 jumped off.
Melisandre was on me for merely a minute and jumped on when the lio wagon was building (worst timing if he was my partner)
E is a strong townread for you.
That leaves .. Reggie. So you think reggie is a possible scum for jumping off?
I give you that his phrasing was weird, when voting and unvoting me.
I had not looked into it more closely. Now you did the work for me, so... thanks.
e might be a "strong town read", but that's a read and it's day 1. It means ~20% instead of ~30% chance to be scum. He could still be a partner scum jumping off. and yes, JReggie. It could also be townies jumping off, it's just that it's weird to see a wagon dissolve after the defense should make it more attractive than before, in my mind.
Melisandre I'm with you, not looking like a partner inmteraction.
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1. If you are mafia, gkreig and ADK are likely partners.
2. If e is mafia and lio isn't, the mafia are probably around slot 3 or 4 on his wagon, but not consecutive.
3. The shift to lio benefited e more than it did you.
4. The players on this site like to bandwagon all at once.
5. If neither you nor e are mafia, then ADK and gkrieg are probably town? for shifting from one towny to another when they could have coasted.
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liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Now the championship feature where it links to every post where the vote was made would be useful. Let me search them by hand.
Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.
Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.
OK.
Let's try vote: liopoil. I don't think he's been very towny.
and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
Vote: liopoil
If Seprix isn't happening.
vote: liopoil looks good to me.
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
Busyness should decrease by the start of the next day
vote: liopoil
Vote: Liopoil
L-2
Haddock: good. People have started calling lio's posts towny, and I can totally understand him going like "... what why lio is not towny let's vote"
Hydrad: Well it's Hydrad but he is overplaying his Hydradness. Scummy.
Awaclus: Nothing really, it's like every other Awaclus vote.
ADK: hard to say. It was an important vote to turn it into a serious wagon, but I don't think the wagon is bad. So it's okay I guess.
gkrieg: no idea. "I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game." could be from anyone.
RR is likewise null be he is towny for other reasons
So the only vote here that really seems like "I want a mislynch" is Hydrad's
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and the way your wagon dissolved was weird, because your defense wans't towny at all. It could have been scum recognizing a chance to hop off.
Then who was the scum bussing me that jumped off?
There were 5 people voting me total.
3 jumped off.
Melisandre was on me for merely a minute and jumped on when the lio wagon was building (worst timing if he was my partner)
E is a strong townread for you.
That leaves .. Reggie. So you think reggie is a possible scum for jumping off?
I give you that his phrasing was weird, when voting and unvoting me.
I had not looked into it more closely. Now you did the work for me, so... thanks.
e might be a "strong town read", but that's a read and it's day 1. It means ~20% instead of ~30% chance to be scum. He could still be a partner scum jumping off. and yes, JReggie. It could also be townies jumping off, it's just that it's weird to see a wagon dissolve after the defense should make it more attractive than before, in my mind.
Melisandre I'm with you, not looking like a partner inmteraction.
Wait you believe it is possible that e and I are scum together?
Do you mind looking at my initial case, his reactions and then my reactions? the fact that we were voting at each other and noone for the longest time was trying to get a wagon outside of us going.
Can you explain why you are thinking that is a world ever?
You might have found the words, but the order you put them in is lacking the logic, son.
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Why do we need to be 2 horus before end of day for you people to do some work. finally something worth reading, maybe.
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Wait you believe it is possible that e and I are scum together?
Of course it is possible. It's also possible that the scum team is RR/e/Mesliandre.
The momentum argument is separate from the reads argument, and since reads are weak, it doesn't affect it too much.
Do you mind looking at my initial case, his reactions and then my reactions?
The honest answer to this is "yes", but I can do it anyway.
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Wait you believe it is possible that e and I are scum together?
Of course it is possible. It's also possible that the scum team is RR/e/Mesliandre.
The momentum argument is separate from the reads argument, and since reads are weak, it doesn't affect it too much.
Do you mind looking at my initial case, his reactions and then my reactions?
The honest answer to this is "yes", but I can do it anyway.
don't do it if you have made up your mind about it anyway. my point is not to waste your time, it is to open your eyes.
You keeping your options open and the way you are doing it here is just kind of suspect to me.
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Oh right that was the big fight. Had forgotten that it was you too.
It doesn't look scummy. I'd say it makes you less likely to be partners. But not by much. I've staged big fights with partners before and people gave more town cred to that then they should have as one of us flipped. It's not that hard.
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my point is not to waste your time, it is to open your eyes.
Aren't we arguing about a detail here? Even if I came to the conclusion that you and e being partners is monumentally unlikely, it would hardly change my mind on you.
How am I "keeping my options open?"
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1. If you are mafia, gkreig and ADK are likely partners.
2. If e is mafia and lio isn't, the mafia are probably around slot 3 or 4 on his wagon, but not consecutive.
3. The shift to lio benefited e more than it did you.
4. The players on this site like to bandwagon all at once.
5. If neither you nor e are mafia, then ADK and gkrieg are probably town? for shifting from one towny to another when they could have coasted.
What do you think about the fact that i called ADK and gkrieg likely partners if one of them flipped scum, because of gkriegs initial read on gkrieg?
overall those are the answers i expected, but you already know that. (well #4 is not something i would have mentioned)
Do you have reads yourself to fit into this analysis for now?
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my point is not to waste your time, it is to open your eyes.
Aren't we arguing about a detail here? Even if I came to the conclusion that you and e being partners is monumentally unlikely, it would hardly change my mind on you.
How am I "keeping my options open?"
I am unlikely to die today at this point today, right?
E might, considering some people trying to push it recently.
If you are scum with E and he flips scum today, then you are basically keeping me in your lynchpool.
That is keeping your options open.
I am not saying i should be lock town forever and always, but like .. the way you talk about it is just so vague. Sure d1 and all that.
But if you believe everyone is capable to do anything then you just rng-lynch because reads don't matter.
And yes this is a detail, but details matter too. and it might help me getting a read on you.
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But if you believe everyone is capable to do anything then you just rng-lynch because reads don't matter.
That makes no sense and I know that you know that it makes no sense. Whether or not we can reach certainty (which we can't, you're right about that, we can't even come close to it) has nothing to do with whether or not we should use reads to get a few points above the average.
See, this post has just made you about 0.25% more likely to be scum. Such progress!
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ADK and gkrieg would have to be wifoming to vote consecutively like that as partners. I don't think this site is aware of that kind of vote analysis, so it seems unlikely.
Here, have a rainbow:
fontisian
Reggie
Roadrunner
Ichi
ADK
Teproc
Haddock
lio
gkreig
Jan
silverspawn
Melisandre
Awaclus
Hydrad
Seprix
e
-
I like rainbows!
-
I might actually put Melisandre lower. He's posted a lot, but nothing has seemed towny, and that bit about consolidating on a lurker was shit tier.
Lio may also be too high. Meh.
The Ichi read is partially based on the way silverspawn read him and the implication that he's an easy read.
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Vote Count 1.12
2.71828..... (3): A Drowned Kernel, Seprix, fontisian
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre, J Reggie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 1 hour, 57 minutes.
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I might actually put Melisandre lower. He's posted a lot, but nothing has seemed towny, and that bit about consolidating on a lurker was shit tier.
Lio may also be too high. Meh.
The Ichi read is partially based on the way silverspawn read him and the implication that he's an easy read.
I should be higher, too.
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
-
I should be higher, too.
There's an easy solution to that problem — just smoke more weed.
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liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Now the championship feature where it links to every post where the vote was made would be useful. Let me search them by hand.
Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.
Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.
OK.
Let's try vote: liopoil. I don't think he's been very towny.
and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
Vote: liopoil
If Seprix isn't happening.
vote: liopoil looks good to me.
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
Busyness should decrease by the start of the next day
vote: liopoil
Vote: Liopoil
L-2
Haddock: good. People have started calling lio's posts towny, and I can totally understand him going like "... what why lio is not towny let's vote"
Hydrad: Well it's Hydrad but he is overplaying his Hydradness. Scummy.
Awaclus: Nothing really, it's like every other Awaclus vote.
ADK: hard to say. It was an important vote to turn it into a serious wagon, but I don't think the wagon is bad. So it's okay I guess.
gkrieg: no idea. "I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game." could be from anyone.
RR is likewise null be he is towny for other reasons
So the only vote here that really seems like "I want a mislynch" is Hydrad's
you forgot teproc.
my point was more do you have reads on the people on said wagon, since you are unsure about lio alignment, reading the people voting on him might help you reading him at least up to an extend.
I for one think that there might be 1 scum between hydrad and awaclus. wagon position, vote strength (you mentioned that one), general gameplay would be the reason. rarely both, mabe none of them. (that is regardless of lios alignment, they would be the buss or the scum for the misslynch).
Other might think ADK/Gkrieg is a thing (fonti mentioned it) .. but i have trouble seeing that knowing that i am town. They are kinda aligned with me for their positions on each of my counterwagons.
Everyone else i read as town.
I could ask you if Lio and I are likely aligned for similar reasons as the thing between E and myself, but I am sure if the gain is that big because you don't believe in anti alignments.
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Right now, of the wagons, I like
Seprix > Jan >>>> liopoil >>>>>>>>> e
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ADK and gkrieg would have to be wifoming to vote consecutively like that as partners. I don't think this site is aware of that kind of vote analysis, so it seems unlikely.
Here, have a rainbow:
fontisian
Reggie
Roadrunner
Ichi
ADK
Teproc
Haddock
lio
gkreig
Jan
silverspawn
Melisandre
Awaclus
Hydrad
Seprix
e
If you exchange our names kick lio from green to orange, put reggie only in light green and seprix higher then it is good.
Awaclus and Hydrad as orange is tricky, they can go either way but they are more yellow than orange for it.
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Of course, "wagon" is pretty liberal for my one vote on seprix
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
I am fine with you or lio. Said that several times and voted each of you for quite some time today.
My gut says lio at this point, because of the way the wagons worked out for the last 1-2 days before his wagon built up.
He is close enough to be misshammered by accident (as in someone ending the day early by accident), so i will not vote him just yet.
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
I am fine with you or lio. Said that several times and voted each of you for quite some time today.
My gut says lio at this point, because of the way the wagons worked out for the last 1-2 days before his wagon built up.
He is close enough to be misshammered by accident (as in someone ending the day early by accident), so i will not vote him just yet.
We don't mis-hammer. We might quickhammer, derphammer, or hammer for no apparent reason, but I have never seen someone get accidentally hammered
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
I am fine with you or lio. Said that several times and voted each of you for quite some time today.
My gut says lio at this point, because of the way the wagons worked out for the last 1-2 days before his wagon built up.
He is close enough to be misshammered by accident (as in someone ending the day early by accident), so i will not vote him just yet.
We don't mis-hammer. We might quickhammer, derphammer, or hammer for no apparent reason, but I have never seen someone get accidentally hammered
Isn't derphammering exactly that though?
-
The way this day is going, I might be convinced to vote liopoil. Only reason: I know I'm town, but he might not be.
-
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
I am fine with you or lio. Said that several times and voted each of you for quite some time today.
My gut says lio at this point, because of the way the wagons worked out for the last 1-2 days before his wagon built up.
He is close enough to be misshammered by accident (as in someone ending the day early by accident), so i will not vote him just yet.
We don't mis-hammer. We might quickhammer, derphammer, or hammer for no apparent reason, but I have never seen someone get accidentally hammered
i have .. two people voting at the same time. less likely to happen here with the forum warning. or someone not counting votes/being 1 off and thinking they are putting it to L-1.
I have seen things like that happen.
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Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
Didn't someone say it is L-2 earlier?
-
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
That's freaking sheeping. So if I don't want to commit, I'm scum, and if I commit, I'm a freaking sheep and I'm scum anyways?
-
Isn't derphammering exactly that though?
This is possible. I might not have the right definition in my head. I meant "scum hammering scum" type of hammer. Derp might not be the right word
-
Our "not voting" people need to go somewhere
Ok. I'm here. Catching up a bit. Deadline is in less than 2 hours, correct?
PPEs
-
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
Didn't someone say it is L-2 earlier?
Last vote count has him at 6 votes
-
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
That's freaking sheeping. So if I don't want to commit, I'm scum, and if I commit, I'm a freaking sheep and I'm scum anyways?
Sounds good to me
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Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
That's freaking sheeping. So if I don't want to commit, I'm scum, and if I commit, I'm a freaking sheep and I'm scum anyways?
Sounds good to me
Well oh my god, you suck.
-
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
Didn't someone say it is L-2 earlier?
Last vote count has him at 6 votes
Adk switched his vote to you, missed that one
Vote: Liopoil
Just for you.
I have this thought in my head. Will write it down to see what people think.
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So Lio is at L-1? If so, I won't hammer.
-
So Lio is at L-1? If so, I won't hammer.
I mean, I could, and I might, but I won't currently.
-
Pretty sure he's still at L-2, but could we get a vote count?
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Vote Count 1.13
2.71828..... (3): A Drowned Kernel, Seprix, fontisian
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 1 hour, 28 minutes.
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Is liopoil going to be here for the deadline? I might jump on the wagon if I need to.
Also, has liopoil claimed anything?
-
I like rainbows!
-
here. Haven't read anything yet, but am guessing people haven't read all I've said either
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Oh. I didn't realize it was 7/2 now. That's bizarre.
let's try vote: Hydrad. Last hour switch, anyone?
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Wow my wagon is bullshit. Not a single person has posted a single reason I am scum in the past 12+ hours, yet I have gotten 6 votes in that time.
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I am being voted as the default "oops we didn't catch anyone" lynch, while there is absolutely no reason I should be that lynch. I've been active and productive and have produced many reads for myself and others, and this will cotinue in later days.
Deflection time. Vote: Hydrad
-
*shrug*
vote: Hydrad
-
Now that I think about, it, if we need a default lynch, it really should be Hydrad.
Seprix is also a decent lynch. He is somewhat scummy. Jan is still my number one choice but that wagon had its chance.
-
Now that I think about, it, if we need a default lynch, it really should be Hydrad.
Seprix is also a decent lynch. He is somewhat scummy. Jan is still my number one choice but that wagon had its chance.
Get your tower out of the clouds, I am not scummy.
-
Vote: Hydrad
Baaaa
-
e lynch is awful. I highly encourage fontisian and ADK to move their votes, that lynch is not happening. ADK will probably vote for me, oh well.
PPE: hey!
-
So there are people in this game .. and there is timing.
And this is mostly my gut, but depending on the flips and what happens i want to write it down just so people maaaybe remember it in later days. I know people won't read my posts once i am dead, but here's for hoping.
Let us start with the mainwagon - Lio.
Something that i disliked and that people should take a closer look at IF lio flips scum.
Melisandres push timing on me was at a moment where the lio wagon was getting stronger.
That timing in itself might be him trying to derail the lio wagon.
His accusation on me in itself was weak, but if he is scum and knows i am town, then he might not want to overcommit there.
He didn't think i was really scum, he just wanted me to get into roleclaim territory.
Uncertainty on day 1 is a thing, so it is not damning, but something to look at if Lio flips scum.
To add to that is the fact that he unvoted when RR put lio on L-2.
That might be a coincidence, but it is something to at least look at if lio is scum. If lio is town this though process doesn't matter at all.
To add to that is that I think Melisandres reads this game differ a bit from the champs game.
In the champs game he iso read people and was fairly certain that they are town from it (not every time but more often than not)
This game he felt less sure about his conclusion. Which might just be because it is a different game with different people.
I just remember him read christian d1 hard town, then rad chdog hard town d2 despite him having awful content, just for tone/attitude alone. Calling Yatta the obvious Lynchbait d2.
This game might still be in d1, but the gametimes is longer and the content most people have given is similar to the ones those people gave that game.
Maybe I am remembering this wrong and he gave several clear reads this game, but he felt less commited in what i remember. (something to check back on, just wanted to push it out there).
Moving on!
Now I want to talk for a minute about E! I will refer to him as "number two" or #2 because he is the 2nd wagon and well E.
If #2 is scum then taking a look and Silverspawn might not be the worst idea.
I mentioned how i felt like silver is keeping his options open with me being aligned to E because people fake certain situations/interactions.
While he did that he instantly agreed to clear Melisandre (he townread both E and Melisandre). I gave the reason that Melisandres push timing was weird to be my partner, considering the lio wagon, BUT faking a bad push just to make me look better is as easy as faking a fight.
So yeah .. if #2 is scum, then there is a good chance silverspawn is with him and Melisandre is town.
Next step would be my dear fontisian aka fonti aka devils bride aka fartface.
I am split about her as of right now, because several towny things she did are not exactly working out fine.
I think if lio is town then she is likely to be town too, because of the questioning with was either just helpful or coaching.
If lio is scum then they might be partners. Nothing I am 100% sure about, but iI disliked some of their interactions. Her read on him early, his weak push against it, without actually caring. Then him kinda flipping his read if i remember correctly (not looking stuff up right now). Possible partners, his reaction towards her was slightly off i think.
I am unsure where to put #2 in that case. I can see them splitting between myself and #2, fonti knows her pushing on me there would basically out her instantly and the moment i flip town she would always be the next lynch.
I am not sure if #2 is town in that case, because fontis momentum to jump on #2 was perfect for a veteran to bus a partner that they felt just fucked up.
#2 got soft protected by several other people, so nothing bad happened to him.
Will have to think a little bit more about that. Might add more soon.
As said this are mostly theories and behavior analysis if at one point either lio or #2 become confirmed scum.
-
Another note, probably not noteworthy:
I have actually played this entire game on mobile. And the timestamps on my double posts are not that far apart. As scum I spend way more time on my posts and there are fewer of them, like most scum players.
PPE haven't read yet. I have skimmed everything else since this morning.
-
Talking and refelcting about that.
my top lynch eprsonally would actually #2
close followed by liopoil.
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
-
Talking and refelcting about that.
my top lynch eprsonally would actually #2
close followed by liopoil.
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
Information in terms of general reads is always complete bull as a criteria for lynches. Just completely insignificant imo. Much more important are lynching scum and also we want people alive who contribute. This is why lynch all lurkers is a thing.
-
Talking and refelcting about that.
my top lynch eprsonally would actually #2
close followed by liopoil.
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
If you go by that, scum can lurk day 1 and never get caught
And we might not have interactions, but we do have information based on how people are treating him.
-
Hydras is in like the bottom three people I want to lynch :-\
-
Rather lynching Hydra than noone, but he is the best misslynch as well as bustarget, there is no info to be gained from the lynch.
-
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
-
Vote Count 1.14
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, liopoil, Seprix, fontisian
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 50 minutes.
-
Talking and refelcting about that.
my top lynch eprsonally would actually #2
close followed by liopoil.
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
If you go by that, scum can lurk day 1 and never get caught
And we might not have interactions, but we do have information based on how people are treating him.
How are people treating him? what did you get until now?
If you knew his alignment right now, what would change for you?
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Now is not the time for a new wagon.
Have you considered Liopoil?
-
Get your tower out of the clouds, I am not scummy.
You are not just scummy, you're actual scum too.
Also the Hydrad wagon is awful. We should just lynch liopoil at this point.
-
Rather lynching Hydra than noone, but he is the best misslynch as well as bustarget, there is no info to be gained from the lynch.
lynching for info is the best way to lose. Anyway, I guarrantee you'll get more info from me on D2+ and hopefully realize I'm town. Whereas if Hydrad is town he probably ends up needing to be mislynched eventually for inactivity and gives no info. But info is irrellevant anyway.
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
1. No lynch is stupid always.
2. If he's PR he should be here, sheesh.
3. Damn info is such a copout. Like, just a worthless sentence.
These are just awful policies. Suppose I took a page out of Hydrad's book. Are you telling me that would be a better strategy? No. This is why lynching lurkers os the policy.
-
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
I think you're right here, actually. Like, even if I die, that's more information than a Hydrad lynch.
unvote
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Get used to it. I do create alignments and anti alignments before people flip. If i see interactions that seem clearing or damning then i will call them out if i find the time.
And it is not a must be scum, it is a is likely to be scum and is likely to be town.
-
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
I think you're right here, actually. Like, even if I die, that's more information than a Hydrad lynch.
unvote
Okay. Please people, I can't believe we are discussing this now:
Low postcount is not a reason not to lynch. That's just trivial.
-
For me it's liopoil = seprix > Hydrad > silver>>>>>e
Dunno where silver suddenly came from.
I find seprixs playstyle generally scummy but have played with him twice so who the hell knows.
And no its obvious that a Hydrad lynch is better than a no lynch.
-
Liopoil-I don't think he is scum and lynching for info is bad in your mind.
So why should we lynch Hydrad?
-
Oh, to hell with it.
vote: liopoil
L-1
-
Liopoil-I don't think he is scum and lynching for info is bad in your mind.
So why should we lynch Hydrad?
And low postcount isn't a reason. So I guess there's no reason...?
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Not happening.
We can try a Seprix wagon too. But you all should realize that you gain nothing by my death unless I'm scum. Like, I know I'm town and it's not helping me form reads.
-
Unvote
-
Oh, to hell with it.
vote: liopoil
L-1
Oh, to hell with it.
vote: liopoil
L-1
No hammering for now please
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Now is not the time for a new wagon.
Have you considered Liopoil?
I have and still am to some extent. It seems bad.
-
If lio wants to claim the time is now.
Fine with seprix too. And RR Hydrad could well be scum. There's just no way to know. That makes him better than a no lynch.
-
Rather lynching Hydra than noone, but he is the best misslynch as well as bustarget, there is no info to be gained from the lynch.
lynching for info is the best way to lose. Anyway, I guarrantee you'll get more info from me on D2+ and hopefully realize I'm town. Whereas if Hydrad is town he probably ends up needing to be mislynched eventually for inactivity and gives no info. But info is irrellevant anyway.
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
1. No lynch is stupid always.
2. If he's PR he should be here, sheesh.
3. Damn info is such a copout. Like, just a worthless sentence.
These are just awful policies. Suppose I took a page out of Hydrad's book. Are you telling me that would be a better strategy? No. This is why lynching lurkers os the policy.
I get the reasoning for yourself and people who are sure you are town.
I think you are likely scum, which means you are a good lynch and if you actually are town then i get at least some infos from it.
If hydra is town then all i learn is that he was in the game for a short while.
I would be fine with a #2 lynch instead of you, but those are the two people are read scummiest right now.
-
Liopoil-I don't think he is scum and lynching for info is bad in your mind.
So why should we lynch Hydrad?
1. Lurking is a generic scumtell
2. He's not contributing to the game, so we lose little with his lynch if he's town
3. I'm town, and useful, so I am a terribad lynch
-
Vote Count 1.15
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Jan, Seprix
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (3): silverspawn, liopoil, fontisian
silverspawn (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, Roadrunner7671
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 39 minutes.
-
Where the hell is ichi?
-
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Not happening.
We can try a Seprix wagon too. But you all should realize that you gain nothing by my death unless I'm scum. Like, I know I'm town and it's not helping me form reads.
If you are town who do you think is scum and why?
Like i know you dislike me. I am town, deal with it.
But what about your wagon here and how it developed. Who is scum who is town and why?
-
JReggie looks terrible here. Distances himself from lio while avoiding the alternative.
-
OK I thought about it. It's the best thing to do right now.
vote: liopoil
L-1
-
Liopoil-I don't think he is scum and lynching for info is bad in your mind.
So why should we lynch Hydrad?
1. Lurking is a generic scumtell
2. He's not contributing to the game, so we lose little with his lynch if he's town
3. I'm town, and useful, so I am a terribad lynch
A player who is known to lurk as either alignment. And that point lurking is not a scumtell. it is bad play, yes. But it is a no tell.
The other points are fine if you are actually town.
-
Rather lynching Hydra than noone, but he is the best misslynch as well as bustarget, there is no info to be gained from the lynch.
lynching for info is the best way to lose. Anyway, I guarrantee you'll get more info from me on D2+ and hopefully realize I'm town. Whereas if Hydrad is town he probably ends up needing to be mislynched eventually for inactivity and gives no info. But info is irrellevant anyway.
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
1. No lynch is stupid always.
2. If he's PR he should be here, sheesh.
3. Damn info is such a copout. Like, just a worthless sentence.
These are just awful policies. Suppose I took a page out of Hydrad's book. Are you telling me that would be a better strategy? No. This is why lynching lurkers os the policy.
I get the reasoning for yourself and people who are sure you are town.
I think you are likely scum, which means you are a good lynch and if you actually are town then i get at least some infos from it.
If hydra is town then all i learn is that he was in the game for a short while.
I would be fine with a #2 lynch instead of you, but those are the two people are read scummiest right now.
You continue to claim that "infos" have non-negligible value, which is false.
-
Unvote
I want a claim or a commitment to no claim before i keep it at L-1.
-
unvote
-
Liopoil you should claim.
-
I want to see the continued interaction with Jan and Liopoil. We're running out of time, he's probably dead anyways, but I want as much info as I can get.
-
Liopoil you should claim.
-
Liopoil-I don't think he is scum and lynching for info is bad in your mind.
So why should we lynch Hydrad?
1. Lurking is a generic scumtell
2. He's not contributing to the game, so we lose little with his lynch if he's town
3. I'm town, and useful, so I am a terribad lynch
A player who is known to lurk as either alignment. And that point lurking is not a scumtell. it is bad play, yes. But it is a no tell.
The other points are fine if you are actually town.
In this case I will lurk in every game from now on, as this benefits my wincon on average with your policy.
-
Liopoil you should claim.
-
In this case I will lurk in every game from now on, as this benefits my wincon on average with your policy.
Then you go and do that. We shouldn't hurt the odds of winning this game just because it might make future games less enjoyable.
-
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
-
Liopoil you should claim.
Also silver makes a good point. I'd be OK with a reggie quicklynch.
-
Liopoil you should claim.
If I claim you might as well lynch me. If you read my posts more carefully you might realize that. So I'm not claiming.
Not to late to switch to Seprox, I guess. But shame on you allfor thinking I'm scum. I think the posts are out there for you to see otherwise, but I'm biased.
-
I'm here. Ready to put my vote somewhere useful.
I'm fine with Hydrad lynch. His lurking this game has been extreme this game, even for him.
PPE: 4
-
I'm here. Ready to put my vote somewhere useful.
I'm fine with Hydrad lynch. His lurking this game has been extreme this game, even for him.
PPE: 4
You should put it on liopoil.
-
Liopoil you should claim.
Also silver makes a good point. I'd be OK with a reggie quicklynch.
Nope.
-
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Nope, my claim benefits scum more
-
I'm here. Ready to put my vote somewhere useful.
I'm fine with Hydrad lynch. His lurking this game has been extreme this game, even for him.
PPE: 4
You should put it on liopoil.
nope
-
I'm here. Ready to put my vote somewhere useful.
I'm fine with Hydrad lynch. His lurking this game has been extreme this game, even for him.
PPE: 4
You should put it on liopoil.
Why?
-
But shame on you all for thinking I'm scum.
Yeah, that's not convincing at all. That's just AoE.
-
No claim? Okay.
vote: liopoil
-
That's L-1 again?
-
I think we have 6 votes tops on Hydrad, so perhaps we should try Seprix instead. Hey, more info there, does that make you happy RR?
Vote: Seprix
-
No claim? Okay.
vote: liopoil
lol scummy not-hammer
-
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Nope, my claim benefits scum more
vote: Seprix
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
-
I think we have 6 votes tops on Hydrad, so perhaps we should try Seprix instead. Hey, more info there, does that make you happy RR?
Vote: Seprix
I'd be happy if you claimed.
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
True. I'd expect scum to have some claim ready to go at this point.
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
for the record, scum!lio fakeclaims 10/10 times. Check my games if you have time.
-
Seprix is eh
-
We should lynch Hydrad. He's not even trying.
-
Dice mafia I invented a role from left field, conpletely fabricated
Clue mafia I counterclaimed town
I'm not scum often, that's all I remember
-
Hydrad or seprix both fine by me.
Starting to chicken out of the lio lynch.
-
We should lynch Hydrad. He's not even trying.
Well I'll go back if it looks like it will happen
-
vote: Hydrad
That's L-something. Let's do this!
PPE: 2
-
Vote: Liopoil
-
Whoa, whoa, whoa, is taht the hammer?
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
What role in the world of ever would be better off if they dont claim?
It just does not add up for me.
Like if he claims and dies for it in the night, that is always better than us misslynching him and town getting additional kp.
I can't comprehend where he is coming from.
-
UNVOTE
PPE: ...I hope to god that wasn't the hammer...
-
OK I thought about it. It's the best thing to do right now.
vote: liopoil
L-1
wow are you scum?
Also every time I get put at L-1 somebody unvotes
-
Dice mafia I invented a role from left field, conpletely fabricated
Clue mafia I counterclaimed town
I'm not scum often, that's all I remember
And you're also fakeclaiming here. You're just leaving out the part where you actually claim.
-
UNVOTE
PPE: ...I hope to god that wasn't the hammer...
I hope to god that it was, and that was the worst unvote ever if it wasn't.
-
Vote Count 1.16
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., liopoil, J Reggie
Hydrad (3): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin
Not Voting (3): Melisandre, Jan, Seprix
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 25 minutes.
-
It's like L-5. But OK Hydrad is fine.
vote: Hydrad.
Ppe unless that was the hammer...
-
Sweet, still alive
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
What role in the world of ever would be better off if they dont claim?
It just does not add up for me.
Like if he claims and dies for it in the night, that is always better than us misslynching him and town getting additional kp.
I can't comprehend where he is coming from.
He is betting he won't actually get lynched?
PPEs
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
What role in the world of ever would be better off if they dont claim?
It just does not add up for me.
Like if he claims and dies for it in the night, that is always better than us misslynching him and town getting additional kp.
I can't comprehend where he is coming from.
This this this.
-
Dice mafia I invented a role from left field, conpletely fabricated
Clue mafia I counterclaimed town
I'm not scum often, that's all I remember
And you're also fakeclaiming here. You're just leaving out the part where you actually claim.
Um. ?
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
Why?
Dude. He's done basically nothing. Like 3 posts I think.
-
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
What role in the world of ever would be better off if they dont claim?
It just does not add up for me.
Like if he claims and dies for it in the night, that is always better than us misslynching him and town getting additional kp.
I can't comprehend where he is coming from.
Then you are not comprehending very well
-
And he's on lio's wagon because it's "fun". I think that's crazy even for Hydrad.
PPE: 1
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
Why?
Dude. He's done basically nothing. Like 3 posts I think.
EXACTLY!
We get no information and everyone has a null read on him.
And Liopoil said that we shouldn't lynch based on post count!!!!!!
-
Definitely Seprix is the best option.
-
Definitely Seprix is the best option.
No.
-
Um. ?
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
Nope, my claim benefits scum more
You're fakeclaiming that your claim would benefit scum more.
-
E's not happening? vote: liopoil l-2?
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
Why?
Dude. He's done basically nothing. Like 3 posts I think.
EXACTLY!
We get no information and everyone has a null read on him.
And Liopoil said that we shouldn't lynch based on post count!!!!!!
Not what I said.
-
Definitely Seprix is the best option, but do we have enough people who are actually for it?
-
E's not happening? vote: liopoil l-2?
catch up first and rethink
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
Why?
Dude. He's done basically nothing. Like 3 posts I think.
EXACTLY!
We get no information and everyone has a null read on him.
Fixed.
-
We've got 23 minutes. Plenty of time.
-
Definitely Seprix is the best option, but do we have enough people who are actually for it?
I think we might. Many people don't want to lynch me
-
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
Why?
Dude. He's done basically nothing. Like 3 posts I think.
EXACTLY!
We get no information and everyone has a null read on him.
And Liopoil said that we shouldn't lynch based on post count!!!!!!
Oh ok. So scum can just make a nonsense post every day to not get modkilled (I don't think Hydrad even has a post for every day).
And then we will never lynch them because of course we'll get no info from it.
Lurking to the level he has is scummy.
PPEs
-
Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
-
Vote: 2.71828.....
Instead of lio if people want to keep him alive for today.
-
vote: e
-
Vote: Seprix
-
Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
-
Also I'm fine lynching through pretty much any claim at this point. Claims are worth a lot than people seem to think.
-
Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
We should just lynch RR I think.
Unfortunately, it probably won't happen.
-
Vote Count 1.17
liopoil (5): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (4): 2.71828....., liopoil, J Reggie, Awaclus
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock
2.71828..... (2): Jan, Seprix
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 18 minutes.
-
Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
I don't need to do this so I won't
-
Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
We should just lynch RR I think.
Unfortunately, it probably won't happen.
I don't think RR is a good D1 lynch.
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A lot less is what I meant.
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Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
We should just lynch RR I think.
Unfortunately, it probably won't happen.
Let's not lynch RR now that he's actually playing decently.
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Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
I don't need to do this so I won't
So you think you're safe now?
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Liopoil claim this: are you a VT?
We should just lynch RR I think.
Unfortunately, it probably won't happen.
I don't think RR is a good D1 lynch.
Oh guess I forgot about that. Why is that a thing again?
I just recall the one game we played where he made it to endgame.
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Have no idea what is going on but would be fine with a Seprix lynch at this point
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Also I'm fine lynching through pretty much any claim at this point. Claims are worth a lot than people seem to think.
This too.
Maybe RR should think some more over night after we lynch Seprix, maybe he'll figure something out
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I don't want to lynch Seprix. I think he's actually doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
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[Liopoil softed a PR.]
Do we (A) let the nightphase deal with him, or (B) force the hardclaim?
Let's answer that now.
(A)
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I can claim, if needed.
I don't want to lynch Seprix. I think he's actually doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
What? Even I don't think that.
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Where are fontisian, Melisandre and e?
This is the time to show up or shut up.
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I can claim, if needed.
I don't want to lynch Seprix. I think he's actually doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
What? Even I don't think that.
Why not?
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And there are scummy people on the seprix wagon.
But still Hydrad or seprix over e at this point.
Lio is still acceptable in spite of everything.
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
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Where are fontisian, Melisandre and e?
This is the time to show up or shut up.
9 to lynch. We need all the votes we can get when people finally settle on someone.
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No Hydrad lynch.
He isn't here to claim.
He'll be sorted by D2.
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[Liopoil softed a PR.]
Do we (A) let the nightphase deal with him, or (B) force the hardclaim?
Let's answer that now.
(A)
B
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[Liopoil softed a PR.]
Do we (A) let the nightphase deal with him, or (B) force the hardclaim?
Let's answer that now.
(A)
I would rather Lynch him.
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[Liopoil softed a PR.]
Do we (A) let the nightphase deal with him, or (B) force the hardclaim?
Let's answer that now.
(A)
You cannot force anything
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
Bad idea.
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
Did I completely miss something about Seprix? Why does everyone want to lynch him?
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I don't want to lynch Seprix. I think he's actually doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
You should want to lynch the obvious scum even when he's doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
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I'm not going to be available after this for the rest of the day. I have one request: lynch scum.
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Vote: Liopoil
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What, would you all not lynch somebody who claims a PR right at the end? That's dumb
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I don't like that liopoil is now going on the offensive. He thinks he is safe. I'm for lynching him.
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I'm not going to be available after this for the rest of the day. I have one request: lynch scum.
Make sure you're on the Liopoil wagon before you leave. He's thr most likely to get lynched but we'll need ever vote we can get.
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I don't want to lynch Seprix. I think he's actually doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
You should want to lynch the obvious scum even when he's doing a superb job of moving the game forward and getting reactions out of people.
Ok. What did I miss that makes him obv!scum?
bunches of PPEs
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
but I don't like Seprix as much as Hydrad. Seprix is about as good as you are now in my book.
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I don't like that liopoil is now going on the offensive. He thinks he is safe. I'm for lynching him.
True, I agree.
-
Liopoil over Seprix, but would be fine with either
-
Why am I posting faster than everyone else?
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Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
Did I completely miss something about Seprix? Why does everyone want to lynch him?
His defense against the case for him is that it's a "bad idea".
-
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
FTFY
-
Why am I posting faster than everyone else?
Cause you don't have an iPhone
Ppe
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I don't like that liopoil is now going on the offensive. He thinks he is safe. I'm for lynching him.
I do not think I am safe. Chances are I am lynched
-
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
Truth.
With the way people are acting, I guess scum can just lurk their way to victory in this game.
-
Hydrad seems like a no information lynch
-
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
FTFY
Tried to quote your post and ended up downloading your band's album for free.
But it looks like I'm agreeing with Awaclus. That's bad.
-
Vote: Hydrad
Hydrad seems like a no information lynch
Have you read, anything? This is so stupid
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
-
Hydrad seems like a no information lynch
Well, yeah. Obviously.
-
Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
Did I completely miss something about Seprix? Why does everyone want to lynch him?
His defense against the case for him is that it's a "bad idea".
yes, because he, like most people, is of the opinion that others should provide a case and he should then defend against that case, not others provide nothing and he makes up reasons.
This is based on a theoretical disagreement.
-
Vote Count 1.18
liopoil (5): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Hydrad (5): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock, liopoil
2.71828..... (2): Jan, Seprix
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 10 minutes.
-
Oh, and crap, now we have like 10 MINUTES.
I will probably shift my vote wherever to actually get a lynch since no lynch is like especially terribad with this amount of players.
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
He is always wrong and he could convince RR into doing something bad, so sure. :)
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Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
Truth.
With the way people are acting, I guess scum can just lurk their way to victory in this game.
Have some empathy my dude. We can always lynch him tomorrow after he gets a chance to talk.
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
I'd support that over lio and Seprix.
-
12 people are looking at the topic. I believe in us.
-
Oh, and crap, now we have like 10 MINUTES.
I will probably shift my vote wherever to actually get a lynch since no lynch is like especially terribad with this amount of players.
Hydrad has the same number of votes as me now
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
He is always wrong and he could convince RR into doing something bad, so sure. :)
Like drugs?
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
Id be OK with that. Don't see it happening though.
-
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
Truth.
With the way people are acting, I guess scum can just lurk their way to victory in this game.
Have some empathy my dude. We can always lynch him tomorrow after he gets a chance to talk.
Is he VLA?
-
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
I'd support that over lio and Seprix.
lol sure
-
vote: Awaclus
Let's make it happen.
-
vote: Awaclus
-
Vote: Awaclus
Stop talking about it and do it!!!
Go go go!
-
Vote: Awaclus
-
vote: Awaclus
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lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
-
vote: awaclus
-
10 minutes is still enough to go 180° and lynch lio if this does not work out.
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
true words.
-
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
Go go go!
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lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
he has posted way more and this end of day is super interesting
-
That is 6 votes.
-
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
He's posted a bunch lately.
-
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
Interactions with RR
-
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
he has posted way more and this end of day is super interesting
This.
-
actaully yeah he has posted more.
But information is secondary anyway.
-
Liopoil hardclaim or NO LYNCH.
This is where it is heading.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
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lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
he has posted way more and this end of day is super interesting
Awaclus's posts are like ethereal or something though. You really think lynching Awaclus is gonna give us info?
-
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
And I like no lynches.
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Vote Count 1.19
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Hydrad (2): fontisian, Ichimaru Gin
2.71828..... (1): Jan
Awaclus (6): Seprix, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 5 minutes.
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Come on, this is a Lynch we can believe in!
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He is the largest wagon.
Now who should claim? nooooobody
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Liopoil hardclaim or NO LYNCH.
This is where it is heading.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
1. No lynch is awful.
2. Awaclus plays like that every game. It's a null tell.
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Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
A reasonable assumption from your perspective, but you're wrong. Awaclus always does this. It's not a PR tell.
-
Liopoil hardclaim or NO LYNCH.
This is where it is heading.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
No that is just awaclus.
-
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
And I like no lynches.
No lynch is so bad though...
You really don't like killing people? C'mon it's fun.
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BTW this setup is probably multiball.
And I like no lynches. vote: Liopoil
I'm getting frazy lag
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lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
he has posted way more and this end of day is super interesting
Awaclus's posts are like ethereal or something though. You really think lynching Awaclus is gonna give us info?
decent chance he's scum.
Jan, Fonti?
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Man, we're going to get a no lynch at this point. Come on, Awaclus votes now.
-
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
And I like no lynches. vote: Liopoil
I'm getting frazy lag
I have 4 votes, not happening. Awa will happen
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Vote: Awaclus
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Everyone should agree to switch back to lio if we haven't lynched Awaclus with a minute to go.
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Everyone should agree to switch back to lio if we haven't lynched Awaclus with a minute to go.
Yes sir.
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lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
he has posted way more and this end of day is super interesting
Awaclus's posts are like ethereal or something though. You really think lynching Awaclus is gonna give us info?
decent chance he's scum.
Jan, Fonti?
Ok. I feel like I know nothing about Awaclus every game.
How many votes is he at now?
-
6
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HAMMER AWACLUS NOW. OTHERWISE WE NO-LYNCH.
-
Vote: Awaclus
We need to lynch. Now.
-
Fuck it, vote: Awaclus.
It's too close.
-
Vote: Awaclus
I dislike it, but no lynch is not an option.
-
HAMMER AWACLUS NOW. OTHERWISE WE NO-LYNCH.
Yo chill no lynched aren't too bad.
-
epic
-
I guess I was wrong in how much time 10 minutes really is.
-
Muh hammer
RIP
-
Awaclus is at L-1
HAMMER.
-
He just got hammered
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Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.
-
;D
-
I think we got him.
-
Phew.
-
wtf why do I always get quicklynched within minutes whenever I'm town's strongest PR?
-
Awaclus was lurking, so I think we actually got scum here.
-
Feels bad man. I should've unvoted.
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Awaclus was lurking, so I think we actually got scum here.
wat
-
Oh.
-
wtf why do I always get quicklynched within minutes whenever I'm town's strongest PR?
Feels worse man.
-
"Meta"
-
They say 70% of you is H2O...
-
Looking at the little wooden cross, Molly sighs loudly. "Is this really necessary?"
"What is the matter?" Sherlock asks. "Do you have a problem with dead cats? You don't seem to have a problem with dead humans." And on these words, he rams his shovel into the ground.
"It's not that just... oh, forget it. Do you even have the owner's permission for digging up the body?"
"He said we should find out who killed her. This is us finding out. Why would he have a problem?"
"Nevermind."
Hours later, Sherlock and John wait in front of Molly's lab.
"Do you really think the cat was poisoned?" John asks.
"Please. Who would go through that trouble?"
"Then why are we even investigating?"
"It's Dr Gorman. She's lying."
"Gorman?" John looks at Sherlock perplexed. "You think she killed the cat? Why would a vet kill a cat without the owner's permission?"
"Her office hours changed."
"Sorry, what?"
"Did you see it? She only opens three days a week, and then only for half a day. That should mean that she has a lot more free time. Yet when we were there, she looked stressed. She clearly hadn't slept much for many nights. What does she do with all her free time?"
"I don't know. But..."
John wants to disagree, but at that point, Molly enters the room.
"I found no obvious signs of killing. Some blood tests still need to be run. It's clear that she lost weight before she died though. And there were remnants in her stomach... bones. They seem to come from a mouse."
"Isn't that what cats do, eat mice?"
"Yes... but that's not an ordinary field mouse we're talking about. The species is rattus norvegicus... they don't usually appear in the wild in this area. They're lab rats."
Sherlock opens his mouth to respond, but at that moment, John's phone rings.
"Yes, hello? ... Why? ... I see. ... How soon? ... Alright." John ends the call. "It's Mycroft. He wants to see you. Something happened. Something to do with Moriarty."
Awaclus has been lynched! He was Mycroft Holmes, the Modified Multiple User Personality!
THREAD LOCKED!
Night 1 start now and lasts 48 hours. Night actions are due within 24 hours.
-
Night action deadline in 5 hours.
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Night action deadline has passed. (sorry about the slight delay) Day 1 starts in 24 hours.
-
Sorry about the delay. Things had to be resolved. (finding a replacement)
Sherlock looks at John suspiciously. "Did Mycroft mention anything about a rose garden?"
John seems confused. "Yes, how do you know? He said to meet him at a bar right across a rose garden."
"It's a trap. That has been our code since we were children."
"You... had a code since you were children for 'this meeting is a trap'?"
"Of course not. Far too specific. We had a general code. If we used it, the other one would know that something's wrong. In this case... I suppose the government did not like him first saving me and then bringing me back here."
"Does that mean..."
"Yes, they wanted to catch me. Probably still do." He pulls out a phone from his pocket and breaks it over his leg.
"What should we do?"
"We solve the case."
"Do you really think that's a priority right now?"
"Yes."
At this point, John's phone rings again. He picks up. "Hello?" Sherlock gives him signs to be careful.
"Hello, inspector Lestrade. What can I do for you?" Sherlock's hand signs intensify.
"What do you mean, bad news?"
iguanaiguana has replaced Hydrad!
Ichimaru Gin has been killed in the night! He was Mary Morstan, the Forensic Investigating Vigilante!
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (14): liopoil, gkrieg13, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, Seprix, iguanaiguana, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Haddock, 2.71828....., Jan, Teproc
Day 2 starts now and ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
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Reading the last few pages was infuriating but I guess it's my fault for not having been there.
The Awaclus lynch is pretty unfrotunate, especially because it was just a bunch of people rallying around a uncontroversial last minute lynch, something both town and scum want to do. WHile I'm on the Awaclus subject.
"Meta"
That's fine, but really Awaclus was behaving no differently than in every other single game he's been in as far as not explaining his votes. It's been his thing. We've fought over it, numerous times. THe fact that he ended up being a PR is not indicative that you were right about that particular thing being indicative of him being a PR, nor is it indicative of meta not being useful. Ignoring meta is like ignoring history : you're bound to repeat the same mistakes over and over.
More importantly... guys, how is liopoil alive ? Oh, because of this ?
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
Awaclus got it right actually :
Dice mafia I invented a role from left field, conpletely fabricated
Clue mafia I counterclaimed town
I'm not scum often, that's all I remember
And you're also fakeclaiming here. You're just leaving out the part where you actually claim.
Also, this post...
I am being voted as the default "oops we didn't catch anyone" lynch, while there is absolutely no reason I should be that lynch. I've been active and productive and have produced many reads for myself and others, and this will cotinue in later days.
is textbook "You're lynching me for the wrong reasons !" What really annoys liopoil is that we didn't even really catch him, yet we were going to lynch anyway ! Town gets furious at being lynched, yeah, but not like this (he does a better job at replicating it later but this comes before, more significant).
-
vote: liopoil
Puzzled by the Ichi kill, anyone have a theory on that ? I should reread him.
-
Reading the last few pages was infuriating but I guess it's my fault for not having been there.
The Awaclus lynch is pretty unfrotunate, especially because it was just a bunch of people rallying around a uncontroversial last minute lynch, something both town and scum want to do.
Is it, though? I think scum might prefer staying off wagon: don't be on a town lynch, and end the day with a no-lynch.
Don't agree with the second attempt at a lio wagon.
-
Reading the last few pages was infuriating but I guess it's my fault for not having been there.
The Awaclus lynch is pretty unfrotunate, especially because it was just a bunch of people rallying around a uncontroversial last minute lynch, something both town and scum want to do.
Is it, though? I think scum might prefer staying off wagon: don't be on a town lynch, and end the day with a no-lynch.
Don't agree with the second attempt at a lio wagon.
Third, actually.
Maybe... I know I tend to dislike no lynches as scum, it just feels like a waste (assuming it'd be a mislynch), not sure if this is true of everyone. You think the wagon is relatively townie then ?
-
Puzzled by the Ichi kill, anyone have a theory on that ? I should reread him.
He was pretty townie.
-
Feels like Teproc is just cherrypicking what he can make an argument for.
Anyway, I will be playing differently today. However, VLA for the next 24 hours. Then I'll say more. I thinj the awaclus lynch was largely my fault for causing the ridiculous end-of-day.
-
Reading the last few pages was infuriating but I guess it's my fault for not having been there.
The Awaclus lynch is pretty unfrotunate, especially because it was just a bunch of people rallying around a uncontroversial last minute lynch, something both town and scum want to do.
Is it, though? I think scum might prefer staying off wagon: don't be on a town lynch, and end the day with a no-lynch.
Don't agree with the second attempt at a lio wagon.
Third, actually.
Maybe... I know I tend to dislike no lynches as scum, it just feels like a waste (assuming it'd be a mislynch), not sure if this is true of everyone. You think the wagon is relatively townie then ?
yes
-
I thought I was going to be around at the end of the day but got pulled into a meeting at work....new bosses and they are trying to change the duties and responsibilities of my job...so yeah.
Anyway, since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
I am going back to vote: Seprix
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
This is also interesting. RR, do you say that because of the size of the game, or what? I mean, sure, but you seem fairly confident and I don't see anything that says multiball
-
Still moving and will reread the end of the day tomorrow
-
Hi everyone, my name is Hydrad. Sorry for lurking. Looks like I have some reading to do.
-
So I have a feeling we're not in multiball, what do people think?
-
So I have a feeling we're not in multiball, what do people think?
Depends what you call multiball : I think mafia+SK is more likely than two scum teams, but only one scumteam and everyone else town is very unlikely.
It's also not super relevant right now : what did you think of how the lynch went down ? Not just Awaclus, but the previous wagons before that.
-
So I have a feeling we're not in multiball, what do people think?
Depends what you call multiball : I think mafia+SK is more likely than two scum teams, but only one scumteam and everyone else town is very unlikely.
It's also not super relevant right now : what did you think of how the lynch went down ? Not just Awaclus, but the previous wagons before that.
I don't like it but at least it wasn't me. It's hard to say what I would have done had I been there, but I probably would have argued against the Awaclus lynch.
-
I'm kinda all over the place right now trying to catch up. I've read pages 1-15 or so and the weird EoD where Awaclus got lynched and where my Hydra was MIA. I haven't read anything in the middle of the day and really need to re-read everything to get anywhere and add something helpful. Unfortunately I don't think I'll get a chance to do that until Tuesday. Until then, I'll do my best to react to everything new as it happens.
As of now I have no firm scumreads because I just haven't had the chance to evaluate everyone yet and analyze their posts like I normally would have by Day 2. This is similar to the beginning of D1 for me.
My gut feeling though is actually to look closest at the players off the Awaclus wagon because I don't think scum wants to participate too heavily in a last minute snap-mislynch like that.
-
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan. Like, being town is so much harder than scum because when you're scum you have information and can just make up reads based on things people say, but when you're town anyone could be scum (except yourself).
-
I am incapable of doing good.
-
I thought I was going to be around at the end of the day but got pulled into a meeting at work....new bosses and they are trying to change the duties and responsibilities of my job...so yeah.
Anyway, since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
I am going back to vote: Seprix
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
This is also interesting. RR, do you say that because of the size of the game, or what? I mean, sure, but you seem fairly confident and I don't see anything that says multiball
/Says the lynch felt like scum were pushing it away from other scum
/Votes someone who didn't vote Awaclus
There were five different ways those wagons could have gone. You're telling me you think the Awaclus runup was specifically to save Seprix, when Seprix didn't even try to save himself?
Vote: e
General suggestion: Stop randomly running people up just before the deadline. Jeez.
Looking forward to seeing Lio's thing and iguana's catch up.
-
Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.
Uh....Seprix started the awaclus movement
-
I am saying that scum exists in the pool of people who were lynch candidates at the end of day. So {liopoil, seprix, e, jan}
I am not scum. I don't think liopoil is. Seprix started the movement, as awaclus is an easy enough target to get quick votes due to his sometimes abrasive personality.
-
Well, I had a little time this afternoon after all. So I am going to do a portion of the re-read and see how far I get.
I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
I'll take Kermit the frog, who I imagine to be friend of iguanas everywhere.
vote: Melisandre
(all my votes are serious, always)
If you want a voice, imagine the voice of a dude looking at a map and trying to figure out what he'll do once he gets those 5 extra cards.
Don't like this mix of a joke and "I'm always serious tho"
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Town on this.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
vote: Teproc
Agree with this reaction.
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
This feels like a lot of an overstatement though.
Oh, that. Well, that's partially for meta reasons, and also because I'm usually automatically a little suspicious of people who claim to have a town read on me.
Nope, don't like this. "Meta reasons" is a big cop-out. ADK is giving Teproc a chance to explain ADK's scumread away, which is exactly what he does here:
PPE : Well, I only scumread you when you're scum is the thing, but I see.
So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK.
Okay, now the whole Seprix vs. Melisandre fight is starting up, which I remember following before I was in the game and thinking "This looks like town vs. town." Before I dip back into that, I'm going to go enjoy my Saturday.
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Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.
Uh....Seprix started the awaclus movement
Oh, oops. I swapped Reggie's and Seprix's names in my analysis somehow.
unvote
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Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
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Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
so you made a list and I don't see a clear delineation between the start and the end (the scum --> I have no idea)
to be clear, you think that: Teproc, myself, Haddock and ADK might be scum
You have no idea if Jan, Melisandre, fontisian might be scum
You are happy with a wagon on any of the top 4, or all 7?
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Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
so you made a list and I don't see a clear delineation between the start and the end (the scum --> I have no idea)
to be clear, you think that: Teproc, myself, Haddock and ADK might be scum
You have no idea if Jan, Melisandre, fontisian might be scum
You are happy with a wagon on any of the top 4, or all 7?
You read it right, and I would be happy with a wagon on all 7 (well not at the same time).
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Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
so you made a list and I don't see a clear delineation between the start and the end (the scum --> I have no idea)
to be clear, you think that: Teproc, myself, Haddock and ADK might be scum
You have no idea if Jan, Melisandre, fontisian might be scum
You are happy with a wagon on any of the top 4, or all 7?
You read it right, and I would be happy with a wagon on all 7 (well not at the same time).
Does that mean you have townreads on everyone else?
If so would you mind giving reasons on why you townread them?
If not do you mind giving reasons why the first mentioned 5 are scummy for you?
(I would assume you have reasons for at least one of those (scum or townreads), maybe both)
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We might have a slight problem.
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Does that mean you have townreads on everyone else?
If so would you mind giving reasons on why you townread them?
If not do you mind giving reasons why the first mentioned 5 are scummy for you?
(I would assume you have reasons for at least one of those (scum or townreads), maybe both)
I don't have town reads on everyone else. Some are null.
A lot of this is based on what happened yesterday being compared to what I know of these players' metas.
Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him. I know that Teproc is a good player, but I haven't been getting good vibes. Teproc, why are you tunneling me?
I don't know what Seprix is like as scum, but this looks like town!Seprix to me.
On another note:
We might have a slight problem.
What's your problem?
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I was wrong about the set-up, it's fine.
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I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
vote: Teproc
Let's start here.
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vote: Awaclus
Let's make it happen.
vote: Awaclus
Vote: Awaclus
Stop talking about it and do it!!!
Go go go!
Vote: Awaclus
vote: Awaclus
vote: awaclus
Vote: Awaclus
We need to lynch. Now.
Fuck it, vote: Awaclus.
It's too close.
Vote: Awaclus
I dislike it, but no lynch is not an option.
The first 5 were all within one minute. The next three within 26 seconds. Total time: 7 minutes, 7 seconds.
Melisandre saw (correctly) that Awaclus was a PR and defended him. Scum doesn't point that out at that critical juncture. I am very confident that Melisandre is town. Not lynching today.
3 people rebuffed that defense
Liopoil hardclaim or NO LYNCH.
This is where it is heading.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
1. No lynch is awful.
2. Awaclus plays like that every game. It's a null tell.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
A reasonable assumption from your perspective, but you're wrong. Awaclus always does this. It's not a PR tell.
Liopoil hardclaim or NO LYNCH.
This is where it is heading.
Awaclus has basically been softing a PR role all game with his 'there is a reason I'm not explaining anything I post" mantra.
No that is just awaclus.
2 people posted with confidence that Awaclus was scum
I think we got him.
Awaclus was lurking, so I think we actually got scum here.
So really, silverspawn and Seprix look the worst from this whole exchange. I doubt both are scum. I think one of them is scum. I think that scum is Seprix. My vote is already there.
And yeah, Melisandre is town. This isn't scum faking disappointment in the lynch. This is town shaking their head in disbelief about what just happened. Because Melisandre was right. And no one listened.
"Meta"
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And yeah. Lynching D1 is important. And yeah, it is easy to sit back on the sidelines and critique the lynch because I wasn't around to vote. But really. Throughout the day, Awaclus had 4 other votes. 4. One was RVS. Wait, no, they ALL were RVS. Until the lynch.
We had wagons on Seprix. We had wagons on Liopoil. We had wagons on me. We had wagons on Jan. We had wagons on ADK. We had wagons on Hydrad.
We lynch Awaclus. My question. Why? I can tell you why. Because he gave off the appearance of being scummy, without being scum. Basically, the perfect PR game. No one voted him seriously throughout the game because, well, he didn't do anything to deserve a vote. But he gave off "that scummy vibe." Which made it super easy to lynch him with that mob like mentality when people are just voting without really thinking. Couldn't build a wagon on him, so just mob-lynch him.
And don't give me any of the excuses that scum wouldn't be involved in this lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606546#msg606546). The "oh we just had to get a lynch through so it wasn't scummy" is such an easy excuse. I mean, those last 3 people have almost a scummier position (well, only 2 alive now since Ichi got NKed) because "they held out as long as they could" to see if another lynch was viable.
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Seprix is town. Let's vote Teproc.
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e, I have some questions for you.
Melisandre saw (correctly) that Awaclus was a PR and defended him. Scum doesn't point that out at that critical juncture. I am very confident that Melisandre is town. Not lynching today.
1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.
It is easily explainable that Melisandre was scum, so knowing Awaclus was town and defending him for town cred. He got an incredibly lucky hit when Awaclus turned out to be the most critical PR in the game. I don't think Melisandre could be explained away as town at all from this. I think you're dreaming.
The "oh we just had to get a lynch through so it wasn't scummy" is such an easy excuse.
2. So a no-lynch was better?
Yes, it completely goddamn sucks we hit Awaclus. It really does. Yes, I voted first for Awaclus. I admit his playstyle infuriated me enough to want him lynched. It wasn't the best lynch. It was a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he flipped scum even, as it was not the correct lynch. But we were running out of time to think. Town in general screwed up, and I was part of that. But the important bit is that we have some information now, at the very least. IG is dead, and so is Awaclus. We have something to work with.
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre. Teproc also distances himself from the lynch with his initial post, stating that he would never have approved such a thing. Like, how weird is that?
3. What do you think of Teproc?
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Why do we think Awaclus is our best PR? We don't even know what his powers were.
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Why do we think Awaclus is our best PR? We don't even know what his powers were.
He reacted as such.
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1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.
[other stuff Seprix posted]
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre.
No. I can't prove that Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. I do think Melisandre had a good read on Awaclus [that proved to be correct] as an outsider evaluating his posts.
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e, I have some questions for you.
Melisandre saw (correctly) that Awaclus was a PR and defended him. Scum doesn't point that out at that critical juncture. I am very confident that Melisandre is town. Not lynching today.
1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.
It is easily explainable that Melisandre was scum, so knowing Awaclus was town and defending him for town cred. He got an incredibly lucky hit when Awaclus turned out to be the most critical PR in the game. I don't think Melisandre could be explained away as town at all from this. I think you're dreaming.
The "oh we just had to get a lynch through so it wasn't scummy" is such an easy excuse.
2. So a no-lynch was better?
Yes, it completely goddamn sucks we hit Awaclus. It really does. Yes, I voted first for Awaclus. I admit his playstyle infuriated me enough to want him lynched. It wasn't the best lynch. It was a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he flipped scum even, as it was not the correct lynch. But we were running out of time to think. Town in general screwed up, and I was part of that. But the important bit is that we have some information now, at the very least. IG is dead, and so is Awaclus. We have something to work with.
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre. Teproc also distances himself from the lynch with his initial post, stating that he would never have approved such a thing. Like, how weird is that?
3. What do you think of Teproc?
What?
Also, just realized you might have meant Teproc when you said Melisandre. So that last post doesn't quite have the same affect.
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I will reread Teproc now
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I meant Melisandre at all times. I just randomly cut to Teproc right after, so it doesn't look like it meshed well.
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1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.
[other stuff Seprix posted]
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre.
No. I can't prove that Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. I do think Melisandre had a good read on Awaclus [that proved to be correct] as an outsider evaluating his posts.
...when the rest of us could not tell the difference between Awaclus then and now. Because there was no difference. He does that playstyle every game. Yes, Melis could also simply be "misreading" Awaclus and it so happened to be correct, good for him.
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My point is that Melisandre was either right for the wrong reasons, or scum setting it all up because he knew what was going to happen. I mean, Melisandre's excuse that Awaclus was simply softclaiming PR by his playstyle was pretty weak and not really there in the first place. It feels like an excuse to not hop on the Awaclus bandwagon besides not wanting to hop on, so Melis ends up looking better.
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I will reread Teproc now
He could be scum. Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into
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I will reread Teproc now
He could be scum. Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into
Let's not and say we did.
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I will reread Teproc now
He could be scum. Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into
I do not advise this.
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Teproc did not feel quite as useful as he usually does. Which, I mean, doesn't really tell us much of anything. I don't know, he talked about meta a lot (relatively) which is an easy out for scum.
He has a couple posts about Awaclus from D1:Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
LEt's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
See, this is what a scum read looks like. JR is concerned that the first thing he said wasn't clear enough, so he completes it to be extra clear and to make sure that everyone sees how much he's contributing to the game by stating clear reads. Town rarely thinkgs like that : town assumes you got it until you don't.
Stray thoughts :
Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
RR slightly townie (as much as it's possible for me to read him).
liopoil townie.
Which, I mean, aren't like amazing posts or anything. But overall I think we have better options for the lynch out there.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)). A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently). I think B slightly over A.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.
What do you mean by this? You mean scum will try to contrive to look one way or another based on my answers? Good. Scum looking contrived is a good way to catch them
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.
Actually, I think it makes it easier to find scum right now.
The idea that you shouldn't ever give a read away because meta is ridiculous.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)). A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently). I think B slightly over A.
Ok, but you just attacked Seprix and Silver based on the idea that A is more likely than B.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)). A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently). I think B slightly over A.
Ok, but you just attacked Seprix and Silver based on the idea that A is more likely than B.
yes I did. Is there something wrong with that? I made a rule than found an edge-case for it. How very f.ds of me.
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So yeah, generally, I do not think scum will gloat over a lynch. silverspawn posted a 'gotcha' before Awaclus, Seprix posted his 'gotcha' 10 seconds after Awaclus posted [probably didn't see Awaclus' post] and then immediately posted hi 'oops we hit town' 20 seconds after that.
Some people post more in twilight than others. I think for people who do post in twilight a lot (people like Seprix and silverspawn) they will probably be more confident about their lynch as scum and more reserved and anxious as town. Or maybe I should rethink go home and rethink my life. anyway, sleep.
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I will be online at the end of today or tomorrow (weekends are bad for me).
First I will look at the D1 lynch-wagon (I believe there were opportunistic scum taking advantage of townies who genuinely lusted for a EoD lynch). [Some scum on / some scum off - look at players who chose to watch it from afar and keep 'blood off their hands'.].
We can also look at the nature of how certain wagons were dismantled (I've calmed down now after the lynch-without-a-roleclaim; but my patience is at its limit for unexplained/unsupported "Player X is town" remarks... and uses of meta to defend someone. Sometimes certain behaviour can be objectively scummy/townie in isolation.]
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so on the Melisandre issue
I agree with Seprix that the read on Awaclus can't have been more than a coincidence
I agree with e that Melisandre is towny regardless
e: I think the primary drive behind the Awaclus wagon was ADK:
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
which could be scum. It could be ADK hiding behind his anti-Awaclus-ness because that's not a tell for him. Problem is, it's still not a tell for him, generally.
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clarification: I think Melisadnre is towny for his EoD regardles. It doesn't really matter if the Awaclus' thing really indicated a PR or not. Why post it as scum and risk to prevent that wonderful mislynch? The only good reason is WIFOM.
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Seprix being super regretful about this lynch is weird. I don't think it was a bad lynch. I didn't like the alternatives. I think it's a scummy thing to fake regret; if you're town you feel justified in the moment of the lynch, but if you're scum you know you've been driving a mislynch and, well, might fake regret.
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so on the Melisandre issue
I agree with Seprix that the read on Awaclus can't have been more than a coincidence
I agree with e that Melisandre is towny regardless
e: I think the primary drive behind the Awaclus wagon was ADK:
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
which could be scum. It could be ADK hiding behind his anti-Awaclus-ness because that's not a tell for him. Problem is, it's still not a tell for him, generally.
Still haven't read everything yet but this post seems on point. Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?
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Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.
I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.
In the other I was read as scum throughout d.
In one RMM game I barely got to play.
In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.
So you can't really conclude this at all.
The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.
Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing. Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable. Sorry about that.
E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start. I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.
Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie
This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.
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*"throughout d1."
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Seprix being super regretful about this lynch is weird. I don't think it was a bad lynch. I didn't like the alternatives. I think it's a scummy thing to fake regret; if you're town you feel justified in the moment of the lynch, but if you're scum you know you've been driving a mislynch and, well, might fake regret.
I said it sucks and we may have made a mistake. I also said what happened happened, and we still got information out of it. It's not the end of the universe for sure, but it still kind of sucks.
SS is town this game, I think. He's playing not like his scummy self.
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Seprix, I know you haven't played in a while, but do you have any notable games as scum?
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Seprix, I know you haven't played in a while, but do you have any notable games as scum?
Long ago, in a galaxy far far in the past. It wasn't notable for me, but I was caught fairly early on, and I somehow escaped by doing some crazy appeal to emotion, but I was dead fairly quickly afterwards.
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I don't like how e is going after Seprix, knowing full well that Seprix can be an easy mislynch target.
Haddock's last big post gives me a slight town read on him.
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Haddock's last big post gives me a slight town read on him.
I appreciate it, but I have repeatedly proven that I make big posts as both alignments.
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Irony Irony.
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Haddock's last big post gives me a slight town read on him.
I appreciate it, but I have repeatedly proven that I make big posts as both alignments.
Not that you made a long post, but what you referenced in your post.
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Fair dos.
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Vote Count 2.1
liopoil (1): Teproc
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
Teproc (2): J Reggie, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Haddock
Not Voting (9): liopoil, gkrieg13, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, iguanaiguana, A Drowned Kernel, Jan, fontisian
Day 2 starts now and ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
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Vote Count 2.1
liopoil (1): Teproc
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
Teproc (2): J Reggie, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Haddock
Not Voting (9): liopoil, gkrieg13, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, iguanaiguana, A Drowned Kernel, Jan, fontisian
Day 2 starts now and ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
I feel like we've been kind of lethargic so far D2, do let's give meaning to "Day 2 starts now". People who aren't voting for Teproc right now should vote for Teproc. Alternatively we could vote for e.
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Or we could not. :(
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Vote Count 2.1
liopoil (1): Teproc
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
Teproc (2): J Reggie, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Haddock
Not Voting (9): liopoil, gkrieg13, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, iguanaiguana, A Drowned Kernel, Jan, fontisian
Day 2 starts now and ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
I feel like we've been kind of lethargic so far D2, do let's give meaning to "Day 2 starts now". People who aren't voting for Teproc right now should vote for Teproc. Alternatively we could vote for e.
I haven't reread yet but I don't get the votes on Teproc from what I remember of D1.
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wow this is a long game already. My reread will have to wait for a while, and then start at the end of the day D1.
Is there anyone I should look at in particular?
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wow this is a long game already. My reread will have to wait for a while, and then start at the end of the day D1.
Is there anyone I should look at in particular?
Uh Teproc maybe, since apparently you don't get the votes on him...
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Rereading again,
I strongly feel that the early Seprix vs. Melisandre "fight" (more of a drawn-out misunderstanding) makes both look town. Seprix's early play is a lot of scumhunting, which makes ADK's read here
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
look quite bad to me. So more scum feeling on ADK.
Fontisian's first long post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603385#msg603385) feels very on point. Town on him from this post.
These two posts
What's the case?
Wait I started this wagon.
feel very authentic. Town on RR.
And I see now an ADK wagon is forming. Now I'm curious to see where it goes, I haven't read any of this yet. Obviously, ADK survived it somehow.
Man, I'm not even voting for you right now, Seprix.
I felt a certain way when I read that post. I gave my reason for that vote. Maybe it's a bad reason! It felt right at the time. I've since changed it, and since changed my read on Seprix, so that's not even relevant at the moment.
More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say.
How inconsistent, ADK. Care to explain?
Calling those posts inconsistent is a stretch at best. I mean, I guess it's totally possible you're just mistaken (with some confirmation bias), but my guess it that it's at least a little manufactured. Vote: Seprix
Don't love this.
vote: Seprix
Especially don't love this bandwagoning here. e is still pushing this case, no? Scummy.
Seprix has a new playstyle. I like it, though I have no idea what it means re: his alignment.
J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
More importantly though, Melisandre is getting scummier by the minute. Though... silver, did she/he tend to overreact to pressure in the championship game ? Melisandre was town there right ?
Do not like this. "He's scummy, but he's even scummier" is a lot of shade to throw at a time, especially with hardly any reason given, especially from Teproc.
I agree with the Seprix case. What he did felt like voting for the unknown guy and then beckpedaling once he saw that it wouldn't really lead anywhere. Thinking Melisandre isn't a bad player should not move your vote. He can be a good scum player.
I'd vote for him but I'm already voting.
Hm, no. I don't buy it. I don't like any of these cases on Seprix.
Melisandre still super-towny as well.
I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
First towny post from ADK I've seen
So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
Feels like J Reggie is trying to buddy the whole thread with this post. Kinda scummy.
Gkrieg's rereads @416 & 419 seem towny. Town on him.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
This vote felt super out of nowhere. May be a scummy vote. Maybe Jan just saw something I didn't see at all?
Liopoil - you decided to read 2 ppl you have not play with as scum. What about the people you played with?
A lot of people have been talking about meta reads and all that. do you do metareads or are you ignoring meta normally?
This is a good point. I did not like Liopoil's reads post at all.
Hydrad seems much less active than usual. Like he's usually acti-lurking but this is just lurking. It's unusual so potentially a scumtell?
vote: Hydrad
Is it too late for a much delayed-OMGUS on behalf of my former self? This feels a lot like ADK asked himself who looks the most defenseless and voted them.
Alright, that's another ten pages. Enough for now.
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On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him. But I'm going to wait to vote until I've read this whole thing. I have another 20 pages to do tomorrow.
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My reads have got kind of muddled here, besides Melis definitely being town.
My gut tells me vote: silverspawn
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Whoops, it became two days of VLA. Promise to catch up today.
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I still want to hear from Teproc before I move my vote, but I think ADK is scum here.
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I've written and thought of everything currently, so I await other people to respond. Preferably people who haven't posted much.
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What's the reasoning for the Teproc votes?
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What's the reasoning for the Teproc votes?
I've given my reasons already. Teproc hasn't been playing quite to his usual self, he absolved himself of blame from the Awaclus lynch in a weird way.
I still want to hear from Teproc before I move my vote, but I think ADK is scum here.
I think ADK is town.
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I am also okay with a Melisandre lynch. I think scum is within Teproc/Melis, possibly both.
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Looking at D2 before digging up D1 - PAGE 48, 49
More importantly... guys, how is liopoil alive ? Oh, because of this ?
Because liopoil soft-claimed a PR, he's unfortunately going to forever hover between lynch-bait and WIFOM-nuisance. Ideally, he'll be sorted sooner (D2 or D3) than later (LYLO/MYLO) - I'm going to try to read him outside of his soft-claim though.
Puzzled by the Ichi kill, anyone have a theory on that ? I should reread him.
Probably the usual: mass town-read/possible PR/his reads (let's look at his ISO later).
Is it, though? I think scum might prefer staying off wagon: don't be on a town lynch, and end the day with a no-lynch.
Scum on, scum off.
Scum would have been salivating at our last-minute scramble for a lynch. I can envision scum wanting to push a D1 deadline wagon on lynch-bait (ideally someone who couldn't defend themselves at the deadline). Sadly, awaclus was that poor soul. However, I can't see all the (3 or 4 player) scum-team on the wagon either (cash in on some free dirty town-cred).
I thinj the awaclus lynch was largely my fault for causing the ridiculous end-of-day.
Town-humility or scum-trying-to-redeem-themselves?
I'm siding 55% town-humility.
So I have a feeling we're not in multiball, what do people think?
1 night-kill indicates 1 scum faction - but that doesn't take in account any roleblock/protective/bulletproof power.
With 16 players, I'm hunting 4 scum.
My gut feeling though is actually to look closest at the players off the Awaclus wagon because I don't think scum wants to participate too heavily in a last minute snap-mislynch like that.
Possible - if the full awaclus-wagon is town (I personally can't see it), scum would lie in the players who didn't show up, and watched the wagon reach hammer unopposed. I think I was the only one who opposed it, (but I do not share the game-history with awaclus as others do, so I could understand a townie lynching Awaclus as a null-read).
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan.
this looks like town!Seprix to me.
Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
I can understand the null on liopoil and Jan, I was continually flipping 180 on both slots on D1.
Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
Are these scum-reads through process of elimination? You "had no real scum reads"...
[Is this scum-J Reggie playing terribad, by being open to many wagons and voting the flavour of D2, Teproc?
Or is this town-J Reggie being vague/undecisive/unsure about his reads?
I'm siding 52.5% town-J Reggie :P
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre.
Is that how you're seriously reading end-of-deadline D1?
You're town, aren't you. No way does scum-Seprix try to push this. ;D It would be the laziest scum-push I have ever witnessed. [Yeah.. this is surely town-Seprix thinking the only reason for me defending awaclus on D1 was because I was scum and wanting to cash in on town-cred on D2. I can't see it any other way. Is this scum-Seprix trying to push this as an actual case to force a lynch? NO F*****G CHANCE 8)]
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I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
It's quite simple. Melisandre, you have been driving the game forward like a good little town. However, you're not lynched yet. Why? Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds, so how is he not dead yet? I think it's very reasonable to conclude (especially with a very odd IG NK) that one of you, and possibly both (I won't go that far) is scum.
I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre.
Is that how you're seriously reading end-of-deadline D1?
You're town, aren't you. No way does scum-Seprix try to push this. ;D It would be the laziest scum-push I have ever witnessed. [Yeah.. this is surely town-Seprix thinking the only reason for me defending awaclus on D1 was because I was scum and wanting to cash in on town-cred on D2. I can't see it any other way. Is this scum-Seprix trying to push this as an actual case to force a lynch? NO F*****G CHANCE 8)]
[/quote]
[/quote]
Belittling my reads with such moral outrage screams appeal to emotion and only strengthens my read.
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Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds
he is? I didn't know that.
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Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds
he is? I didn't know that.
Is he a great player?
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It's quite simple. Melisandre, you have been driving the game forward like a good little town. However, you're not lynched yet. Why? Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds, so how is he not dead yet? I think it's very reasonable to conclude (especially with a very odd IG NK) that one of you, and possibly both (I won't go that far) is scum.
I'll tell you why IG was night-killed on D3 (if I'm still alive). In the mean-time I recommend you re-read D1.
Clue: the primary focus of scum is hunting town PR's. Scum want to lynch town PR's. Scum want to night kill town PR's.
Your logic to lynch me because I haven't been nightkilled yet is inane (fortunately for you, town-like logic, as it feeds off healthy-paranoia)
"Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds," - I don't give a f**k. Is he scum in this game though? Show me scum-Teproc. Not, 'Teproc-is-still-alive-kill-the bast**d'.
"driving the game forward like a good little town" - well I could have lurked out the whole game, not expressed my views and not give a s**t, but that is not in my nature.
Belittling my reads with such moral outrage screams appeal to emotion and only strengthens my read.
Your quite welcome to share your reads. Because their 'logic'/motivation help me with my developing read of you. My "moral outrage" is the one thing that will hopefully keep me motivated today.
@Teproc. Apparently, you are "widely considered the best town player on f.ds". Why haven't you found scum yet? >:( [Should I hammer?]
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Ok end of day reread because I wasn't there.
Right off the bat RR seems townie. Even him talking about his IC status is pretty townie, even if he gets the meaning of IC wrong.
So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
And guess what? That makes SS unbelievably scummy. I'm not sure if I can really explain this, but he got all the towncred for pointing out a 'slip' that clearly isn't a slip, so IG gets nothing, but ss still gets that towncred...
And you know what they say! Only scum tries to get town cred!
Vote: silverspawn
This post in particular seems townie, because it is RR trying to do something.
I'm basically an IC.
Oh hoh ho, those are big mighty words.
If everyone has a town read on you, you have achieved IC status. Of course, I'll lose it when I botch a fake claim people decide I did a thing and I can't defend myself, but it happens.
This is not what IC status means, and your latest posts are mildly scummy in my book.
I don't agree with this post. I think the last posts of RR are pretty townie.
My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
*votes for ss*
I agree with meli; you and seprix should move your votes.
I also don't like fake votes. Scum points to Lio
Wow, so we're getting close to the deadline and I still don't have any solid scum reads. I still think Jan is the way to go, but I could be persuaded otherwise. I'm not sure why Teproc is bussing me so hard reads me as scum. Does anyone else?
We don't have plurality lynch do we? This is going to be difficult.
JReggie seems to be very concerned with how people read him this game. Almost all of this post is scummy, extremely hedgy and asking other peoples' reads on him.
Liopoil wagon
So liopoil wagon gets to Teproc,Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, ADK. RR reacts that he doesn't like the wagon, ss says he isn't opposed at all, but likes a Jan lynch better
Melis doesn't join the wagon because he doesn't like the voters on the wagon. e says that he would rather go for Jan still.
I don't really understand Jan's wagon analysis
RR then votes for lio and the Jan wagon dissolves pretty quickly. I guess it dissolves after he defends himself, which is good. It seems to dissolve pretty naturally.
and the way your wagon dissolved was weird, because your defense wans't towny at all. It could have been scum recognizing a chance to hop off.
This doesn't seem like very good reasoning. I don't think scum would be bussing Jan the way the wagon formed. I guess thinking about it more, you may be right. Either town jumped off it when they believed the defense, or scum jumped off their partner because they made a defense they could believe. I still lean towards town jumping off the wagon because they believed the defense.
ADK and gkrieg would have to be wifoming to vote consecutively like that as partners. I don't think this site is aware of that kind of vote analysis, so it seems unlikely.
Here, have a rainbow:
fontisian
Reggie
Roadrunner
Ichi
ADK
Teproc
Haddock
lio
gkreig
Jan
silverspawn
Melisandre
Awaclus
Hydrad
Seprix
e
This reads list seems interesting to me. Why do you townread IG and JReggie?
Well I got to #950 and will do stuff more later
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Liopoli's *votes for SS* thing wasn't a fake vote, it was a remark that I had voted for ss even though he wasn't on my scummy people list.
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JReggie seems to be very concerned with how people read him this game. Almost all of this post is scummy, extremely hedgy and asking other peoples' reads on him.
I was unconcerned with how people read me in Fruit Ninja. Just a reminder. I'm town here.
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Hmm. It seems like my question about Teproc earlier didn't go through. Can someone elaborate on the case against him? I liked a lot of his D1 stuff, iirc.
Gkrieg: I don't think a relatively new player would be capable of faking the combination of hesitancy, aggro and game solving that Reggie has as scum. Ichi, I was informed to be an easy meta read and he seemed fairly town.
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I'd like to hear from Teproc before I explain that vote.
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I don't think a relatively new player would be capable of faking the combination of hesitancy, aggro and game solving that Reggie has as scum.
That's a dangerous assumption, but luckily you're right at the moment.
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Gkrieg: I don't think a relatively new player would be capable of faking the combination of hesitancy, aggro and game solving that Reggie has as scum. Ichi, I was informed to be an easy meta read and he seemed fairly town.
I thought so too, then he completely pounded us as scum in his first game ever a couple days ago. I trust him much less now.
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Hmm. It seems like my question about Teproc earlier didn't go through. Can someone elaborate on the case against him? I liked a lot of his D1 stuff, iirc.
Gkrieg: I don't think a relatively new player would be capable of faking the combination of hesitancy, aggro and game solving that Reggie has as scum. Ichi, I was informed to be an easy meta read and he seemed fairly town.
Ya he is a great scum player and I think is capable of changing his game after drawing scum twice in a row so that his two games looked different
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I don't know whether to be flattered or concerned. It's good to be cautious, but let's find actual scum.
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I don't think a relatively new player would be capable of faking the combination of hesitancy, aggro and game solving that Reggie has as scum.
That's a dangerous assumption, but luckily you're right at the moment.
^town
My gut says e is mafia but his responses to me were pretty solid. Should I resist the urge to tunnel?
Nah.
Vote: e
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Urgh there's still way too much happening way too fast in this game. I'm going to bed and promise to do my best to catch up tomorrow.
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Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet.
Anyway, so I resolve today not to focus on defending myself like I did yesterday but to be more helpful in finding the real scum. If you would like me to respond to something please say so. Responding to everything yesterday just made everyone focus on me more and I'm surprised I wasn't mislynched.
With regard to claiming:
@Meli: I have not softclaimed anything. There are posts you could go quote and point at as softclaiming, but don't bother please. They aren't, though I understand why they look like that.
I will not be claiming anything this game. There are multiple roles for which this makes sense. If it comes down to "claim or we lynch you" then I will be lynched. Note that I am in part saying this now so that scum!lio, who some think exists, would have no outlet to try to fake anything down the road. Part of the reason meli and others wanted me to claim was that so if I was scum then I was committed to one role. Well now I am committed to never pretending to be a role I am not.
I have read most of the D2 posts, but not yet thoroughly.
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First questions:
Jan: Why was your only post in the last 15 minutes of day 1 your last-minute vote for Awaclus? What was going on in your head as everything unfolded?
Same question for fontisian, except replace 15 with 60.
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First questions:
Jan: Why was your only post in the last 15 minutes of day 1 your last-minute vote for Awaclus? What was going on in your head as everything unfolded?
I wanted to lynch either you or E day 1. I tried to get people to lynch either of you.
But I was willing to settle with a lynch on anyone not inside my extended townreads.
Awaclus could have gone either way (same as hydraguy), I didnt't think either would have been good lynches d1, mostly coinflips that don't give a lot of infos.
And close to zero infos now that he flipped town.
I was mostly watching the last 15 minutes from the outside because at that point i knew my top targets were not dying on that day regardless of what i say.
I am not a big friend of those kind of End of days tbh. I am fine with having a cfd, but when your days are this long then the main wagons should be clear 24 hours before EoD which is the point where the claim for the first person/wagon happens.
Makes it harder for scum to snack a misslynch in the chaos with town having more than enough time to evaluate the lynch and move on. But every site has different metas on that front.
The post/vote in itself was what was needed to be sure that we get the/any lynch.
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I had thought the deadline was an hour later.
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Looking back at D1... liopoil was the ideal D1 info-lynch. A liopoil-flip would have given us the most information [i.e there were players pushing for his roleclaim/lynch and those pushing counter wagons.] But I've read enough of liopoil's meta trust-tells and trust-me-or-lynch-me pleas. We'll have to dig apart liopoil's D1 wagon once he flips (which is unlikely to be today).
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I'd rather go for 2.7 today than lipoil. Much rather, actually.
Let's go with a Vote: 2.7
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gkrieg13 re-read
Meta-defends Roadrunner7671 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603333#msg603333)
Ya he is a great scum player and I think is capable of changing his game after drawing scum twice in a row so that his two games looked different
- does gkrieg13 have enough playing experience with Roadrunner7671 to say this?
gkrieg13 highlights that Seprix "points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic". I like the fact gkrieg13 follows this up with an ISO re-read on ADK.
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
Does gkrieg13 follow up this scum-read on silverspawn with any pressure/vote/questioning?
Some more meta-defence:
Classic Awaclus there
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
vote: liopoil
This amount of words needed to explain this liopoil vote is slightly concerning.
Have no idea what is going on but would be fine with a Seprix lynch at this point
gkrieg13 doesn't have an up-to-date grip of the game but airs his support for the Seprix lynch - unsure of this, I am sure Seprix was in gkrieg13's D1 good books.
gkrieg13 narrows it down to Liopoil and Seprix (did gkrieg13 sill have scum-feelings for silverspawn at this point?):
Liopoil over Seprix, but would be fine with either
gkrieg13 opposes the no-information Hydrad lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605510#msg605510).
@gkrieg13
- talk me through your read of silverspawn (from D1 through to D2).
- I didn't like your distanced pushing of the liopoil and Seprix wagons at deadline hour. I never felt like you had expressed your full feelings on why they could be scum. It felt more like you were merely agreeing with the popular wagons of that time.
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I'd rather go for 2.7 today than lipoil. Much rather, actually.
Let's go with a Vote: 2.7
I ended D1 town-lean reading 2.7 (after the 2.7-Jan episode), so look forward to going over those reasons later.
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I'd rather go for 2.7 today than lipoil. Much rather, actually.
Let's go with a Vote: 2.7
I ended D1 town-lean reading 2.7 (after the 2.7-Jan episode), so look forward to going over those reasons later.
I don't look forward to it.
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First half of D1, I felt 2.7 was the easy lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603896#msg603896) (so was scared off from voting for him based on WIFOM).
I could not understand the nature of his ADK read (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604304#msg604304).
"I was intrigued (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604978#msg604978) by his "shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town." comment."
2.7 was null-to-scum-lean at this point. But then my read changed:
2.71828 sounds offended by Jan's attack on his reads-list (Post #695 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585)) - I'm town-leaning this sensitivity. 2.71828 isn't afraid to follow up his disgust with a vote on Jan too (Post #696 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604588#msg604588)).
Either he gives the townread for the list without reading it, which means he is bad (oh look a wall of text that has to be town) or he knows i am town because he is scum.
Ok, I can see what you're saying:
- 2.71828 rushed out a town-read on you (a naive skim-read read?)
- 2.71828 flipped on his town-read on you to a scum-read (despite liking parts of your very same post)
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening.
Is scum-2.71828 more likely to react in this way?
Yes, on the surface the dramatic switch looks very bad as either alignment: (scum-bad-OMGUS), but is it just town-bad? I.e does scum-2.71828 really dump his scum-reads to enter an emotionally-charged attack on you... someone he'd just said he was loving the reads/posts of? [I'd need convincing there. Right now, I'm thinking town incensed-2.71828.]
My town-lean read of 2.7 was based on his emotional reaction and flip-flop to Jan's readslist.
[In my head I reasoned that scum-2.7 wouldn't dare demonstrate such a dramatic 180/omgus on Jan.]
@Roadrunner7671 - talk me through scum-2.7 in that 2.7-Jan episode.
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@Roadrunner7671 - talk me through scum-2.7 in that 2.7-Jan episode.
Um...
If I play all my cards, I'll have an empty hand.
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Ya he is a great scum player and I think is capable of changing his game after drawing scum twice in a row so that his two games looked different
- does gkrieg13 have enough playing experience with Roadrunner7671 to say this?
I think gkrieg was talking about me and not RR there. But I'm pretty sure they have played together a bunch.
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url=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604304#msg604304]ADK read[/url].
That seems to be the wrong link
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fix:
ADK read (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604304#msg604304).
That seems to be the wrong link
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@Roadrunner7671 - talk me through scum-2.7 in that 2.7-Jan episode.
Um...
If I play all my cards, I'll have an empty hand.
Do you want to lynch scum?
I've/we've got no time to play games with two powerful town PR's already dead.
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I had thought the deadline was an hour later.
What is this post supposed to mean? It looks like a lame excuse to me.
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I had thought the deadline was an hour later.
What is this post supposed to mean? It looks like a lame excuse to me.
I believe it means that she thought the day was ~1 minute from being over, not about ~1 hour, so she cast her vote and left thinking that was the end of the day.
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Do you want to lynch scum?
I've/we've got no time to play games with two powerful town PR's already dead.
Why are you in such a hurry?
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I had thought the deadline was an hour later.
What is this post supposed to mean? It looks like a lame excuse to me.
I believe it means that she thought the day was ~1 minute from being over, not about ~1 hour, so she cast her vote and left thinking that was the end of the day.
Bzzt. It means I thought I had two hours to figure stuff out, so I left for 45 Minutes, and then cams back to 7 new pages, a bunch of cfds, and 5 minutes left in the day.
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Sorry, wasnt around yesterday. I want to do some more rereads and really look at all the wagons.
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Why are you in such a hurry?
I don't want a repeat of the clusterf**k of D1. If someone is scum-reading my town-lean I want to know why. It's a team game.
Plus, my activity is going to drop from Friday.
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fix:
ADK read (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604304#msg604304).
That seems to be the wrong link
It's the right link, maybe I didn't explain it better:
2.7 said: "ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now."
I am unsure how could-be-town-ADK could be an "option" (did he just meta-clear ADK?). I.e ADK shouldn't even be in the same discussion as his gkrieg13 read.
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gkrieg13 re-read
Meta-defends Roadrunner7671 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603333#msg603333)
Ya he is a great scum player and I think is capable of changing his game after drawing scum twice in a row so that his two games looked different
- does gkrieg13 have enough playing experience with Roadrunner7671 to say this?
gkrieg13 highlights that Seprix "points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic". I like the fact gkrieg13 follows this up with an ISO re-read on ADK.
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
Does gkrieg13 follow up this scum-read on silverspawn with any pressure/vote/questioning?
Some more meta-defence:
Classic Awaclus there
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
vote: liopoil
This amount of words needed to explain this liopoil vote is slightly concerning.
Have no idea what is going on but would be fine with a Seprix lynch at this point
gkrieg13 doesn't have an up-to-date grip of the game but airs his support for the Seprix lynch - unsure of this, I am sure Seprix was in gkrieg13's D1 good books.
gkrieg13 narrows it down to Liopoil and Seprix (did gkrieg13 sill have scum-feelings for silverspawn at this point?):
Liopoil over Seprix, but would be fine with either
gkrieg13 opposes the no-information Hydrad lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605510#msg605510).
@gkrieg13
- talk me through your read of silverspawn (from D1 through to D2).
- I didn't like your distanced pushing of the liopoil and Seprix wagons at deadline hour. I never felt like you had expressed your full feelings on why they could be scum. It felt more like you were merely agreeing with the popular wagons of that time.
So my end of day voting was purely because I felt bad that I couldn't get into the game because I was moving. It was a fine line to walk between being helpful in our move and playing the game. I thought my vote would be helpful on liopoil, as I still feel he is scum, but I wasn't up to date enough to really know for sure who I wanted to vote for. I would've gone for Seprix from what little I had read that felt a lot different from his beginning of the day. He has become a little more null than he was at the beginning of the day.
I didn't have full feelings on why either of them could be scum. I believe at that point, it was between 3 different people. Hydrad, lio, and Seprix. I was saying essentially that my preference was lio>Seprix>>>Hydrad. I didn't think that the Hydrad lynch would be good because people hadn't really taken stances on him, and it was almost a random lynch in my opinion. He clearly got replaced, which means that he was actually just busy, not just lurking because he was scum.
I still have to reread ss, but I'm very weary of him because he is such a good scum player. He kinda disappeared in my mind in the sea of people, so I kinda just forgot about him.
I'm going to finish my game reread, then do some targeted rereads sometime today.
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ok getting back into this from #950 onward
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605310#msg605310) by Seprix is interesting. I feel like his wagon is just picking up while he should just want to lynch lio for self-preservation. They could both be scum, which would make this interaction make sense. Saying he was for the wagon, without actually lynching him.
ugh. I don't like how ss starts a last minute wagon on Hydrad (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605323#msg605323)
I also don't like how Seprix and lio vote right after each other to follow onto the Hydrad wagon
vote: lio
so far I'm liking this conspiracy theory that they are both scum.
I like Jan's analysis (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605339#msg605339) of fontisian and lio. I feel like they could be partners as well.
this vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605368#msg605368) from Seprix kinda doesn't fit my conspiracy theory.
Haddock also says he is fine with either lio or Seprix
But then Seprix unvotes when lio is at L-1. Kinda goes back to my conspiracy theory.
Liopoil you should claim if you think if would benefit town more than scum.
This is a very interesting wording from JReggie.
I also don't really like when lio tells us what he does as scum. I feel like I only do that when I'm scum.
ok the Hydrad wagon actually gets fairly large. Hydrad (5): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock, liopoil. I'm not surprised ss stays on there. I am surprised by IG and Haddock. I don't know, I still think the Hydrad lynch would've been a bad idea. iguana has also felt townie with his last posts.
Melis seems town for this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605548#msg605548)
interesting that RR says the setup is most likely multiball. I don't think that comes from scum.
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
Also IG seems like a very strange kill. Like somehow they knew he was PR? I'll have to go and reread IG because I obviously missed something
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
Yes, this has got me thinking again:
Would scum-silverspawn and scum-Seprix really set themselves up like this?: ;D
HAMMER AWACLUS NOW. OTHERWISE WE NO-LYNCH.
Awaclus is at L-1
HAMMER.
Man, we're going to get a no lynch at this point. Come on, Awaclus votes now.
I think we got him.
Awaclus was lurking, so I think we actually got scum here.
- no pre-lynch hesitancy
- no attempt to fake town paranoia/indecisiveness
- no post-lynch doubt
- no attempt to save face in expectancy of a town flip
Based on WIFOM, I can't see both silverspawn and Seprix forcing awaclus' lynch down our throats without a care for self-image. If scum, it's a brilliant gambit that hides their opportunistic motivation behind WIFOM-theatre. But I'm not going there. There was no reason to out themselves like that.
Does anyone think scum-silverspawn/scum-Seprix could pull off that confident stunt? Or are you null on it?
@J Reggie, did you answer this?
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan.
this looks like town!Seprix to me.
Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
@Seprix - can you explain your scum-read of Teproc. He was in my D1 comfortable pile.
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
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The end of yesterday makes me read Seprix as much more likely to be town. He just had lots of genuine split-second reactions. So I'll assime he's town for now. Makes me feel suspicious of hydrad/iguana, because that wagon had way too much resistance. If iguana is town, then all the end-of-day wagons were town, and so scum is likely to be waiting and just letting town choose their mislynch. Either way, makes me lean town on everyone who pushed the Hydrad lynch. Who was that? I'll go check.
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Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
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The end of yesterday makes me read Seprix as much more likely to be town. He just had lots of genuine split-second reactions. So I'll assime he's town for now. Makes me feel suspicious of hydrad/iguana, because that wagon had way too much resistance. If iguana is town, then all the end-of-day wagons were town, and so scum is likely to be waiting and just letting town choose their mislynch. Either way, makes me lean town on everyone who pushed the Hydrad lynch. Who was that? I'll go check.
This makes much more sense to me.
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According to gkrieg13's wagon analysis:
Hydrad (5): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock, liopoil
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Vote Count 1.18
liopoil (5): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Hydrad (5): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock, liopoil
2.71828..... (2): Jan, Seprix
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 10 minutes.
Okay so this was the height of the Hydrad wagon. Well we all know ichi was town, and I'm town too. Townpoints to silver and haddock, who I remember really pushed the wagon. Fontisian just put a vote down, so she only gets townpoints if Hydrad is scum, and I don't like contingencies.
@Meli: Why have you never voted for me this game?
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Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Well most of them are pretty obvious. Seprix and lio are scum, IG was town and I have a town read on ADK and RR. You and fonti look like possible partners for the lio/Seprix team and Jan is null and Haddock is slight town
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Does anyone think scum-silverspawn/scum-Seprix could pull off that confident stunt? Or are you null on it?
It looks townie of Seprix. I don't put anything past silverspawn.
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I do agree it makes them seem like they are not teammates.
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@J Reggie, did you answer this?
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan.
this looks like town!Seprix to me.
Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
I don't think Seprix would have spearheaded the Awaclus lynch as scum, and this is also looking like Seprix in Fruit Ninja.
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e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
Yes, this has got me thinking again:
Would scum-silverspawn and scum-Seprix really set themselves up like this?: ;D
HAMMER AWACLUS NOW. OTHERWISE WE NO-LYNCH.
Awaclus is at L-1
HAMMER.
Man, we're going to get a no lynch at this point. Come on, Awaclus votes now.
I think we got him.
Awaclus was lurking, so I think we actually got scum here.
- no pre-lynch hesitancy
- no attempt to fake town paranoia/indecisiveness
- no post-lynch doubt
- no attempt to save face in expectancy of a town flip
Based on WIFOM, I can't see both silverspawn and Seprix forcing awaclus' lynch down our throats without a care for self-image. If scum, it's a brilliant gambit that hides their opportunistic motivation behind WIFOM-theatre. But I'm not going there. There was no reason to out themselves like that.
Does anyone think scum-silverspawn/scum-Seprix could pull off that confident stunt? Or are you null on it?
@J Reggie, did you answer this?
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan.
this looks like town!Seprix to me.
Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
@Seprix - can you explain your scum-read of Teproc. He was in my D1 comfortable pile.
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
No, they wouldn't. That is my point.
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Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Well most of them are pretty obvious. Seprix and lio are scum, IG was town and I have a town read on ADK and RR. You and fonti look like possible partners for the lio/Seprix team and Jan is null and Haddock is slight town
So it is not based on their wagon position, but based on other stuff?
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@Meli: Why have you never voted for me this game?
Here I am on you:
D1
- I didn't like your out-of-RVS RVS vote on Teproc.
- I did not like your "it's not like he would get towncred for sheeping Seprix" comment.
- I didn't like your early reads list - it was heavy meta-based. I didn't feel its sincerity.
- I didn't believe your scum-read of Seprix was real
- I could not see this: "fortisian thing is mostly that she is agreeing with me on literally everything"
[At this point, you were under pressure from many players so I didn't feel I needed to add a pressure vote, as I was still figuring you out and didn't want you to enter defence-mode].
- I liked Teproc's scum-narrative (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604297#msg604297) on you.
[At this stage I was wondering if you were nervous town or nervous scum - I liked the pressure on you.]
- I personally didn't like the speed of your wagon (empty votes).
- Then I saw you didn't mind the focus on you - using sarcasm (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604478#msg604478).
- I noticed that you were open to many lynches, even players you were not scum-reading. I felt scum-liopoil would have been more cautious here (especially when facing a lynch of his own). I kind of ruled out opportunistic-liopoil here.
- the make-up of your wagon made me feel distanced from your wagon (namely Awaclus' and Hydrad's votes).
- you then softed a PR to escape a lynch. There is no denying that. If you'd roleclaimed VT you would have been the D1 lynch. (I would have voted you here to ensure a D1 lynch.)
[This is when I begin becoming frustrated with your slot].
- End of Day 1, I wanted your full hardclaim or no lynch. I wasn't a fan of any other wagon. (Jan had talked me out of my vote on him.)
D2
- I sensed town-humility in your comment: "I thinj the awaclus lynch was largely my fault for causing the ridiculous end-of-day." (NOT scum-liopoil trying-to-redeem-himself).
- Re-reading D1, I realise you were the prime D1 info-lynch. When you do flip we'll have one further wagon to look at. I do not like your trust-me-or-lynch-me mantra, but if you find scum you won't be a policy lynch/lynch bait for scum to manipulate.
So why have I never voted for you this game?
- timing: I didn't feel like my vote was needed. My interactions with you were producing enough information.
- confirmation-bias: I didn't like the speed of your wagon.
- WIFOM: I don't think scum-liopoil would be that obvious being opportunistic and desperate to save themselves from a lynch.
- your-hardclaim-without-actually-hardclaiming: it basically says "f**k-off-you're-not-lynching-me-only-on-my-terms".
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I do agree it makes them seem like they are not teammates.
Yeah, if we're dealing with one scum team this game, this is something to note for later.
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fontisian
Reggie
Roadrunner
Ichi
ADK
Teproc
Haddock
lio
gkreig
Jan
silverspawn
Melisandre
Awaclus
Hydrad
Seprix
e
How does D1's events effect the rainbow?
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Bleh.
I wanted to finish reading D1 today, and it didn't happen. I had a lot of chores and they ate up my day, now I'm going to work. I'm on, like, page 25, and still have not read 25-40ish. I'll keep trying to read a few pages at a time. I think that commenting on everything that catches my eye like I did for the first 20 pages will be too ambitious though. I need to get through reading this stuff so that I can participate in voting before we get too close to the deadline for it to matter.
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Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
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I mean I even SAID that you were going to find it scummy. There literally is no towny response to that question, so I said it was stupid. And I knew RR what going to post exactly what he did, that I dodged the question, so I posted again. Like, what the heck am I supposed to do.
The above is defensive, but my original posts were not, they were dismissive of what is a ridiculous way to scumhunt. Let me demonstrate:
Teproc: Are you scum?
Note that no matter what you say I will be finding a way to interpret it as scummy. Because, your whole argument rests on the idea that only scum cares about how they look, which is just false. But my original posts even show that I didn't care that much, since this reaction was soooo predictable. I could have just said 'no' and moved on, but personally I would find that to be a much more scummy response.
Towny on this response from Lio.
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Was this the game where people were discussing conspiracy theories? This post
vote: liopoil
I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go.
is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy.
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Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Well most of them are pretty obvious. Seprix and lio are scum, IG was town and I have a town read on ADK and RR. You and fonti look like possible partners for the lio/Seprix team and Jan is null and Haddock is slight town
So it is not based on their wagon position, but based on other stuff?
yes. But it fits in my conspiracy theory of lio/Seprix scum team, they would want an alternative wagon to pop up quickly if they were the two default lynches
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Agree with almost all of this
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
I've been thinking about this and it's tough. I'll also answer meli's question. The problem is that I think all the votes are bad votes, but that completely different from coming from scum. So:
Jan: Still hasn't specified why he thinks I'm scum, really. His questions were weird and he misconstrues what my posts mean a little. So that's a bit scummy.
Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.
RR: He didn't feel strongly enough to vote until after Teproc agreed, but that's just RR I think. He just wants his question to have meant something. Null to slight town, I guess.
J Reggie: A real cop-out vote, but honestly probably town. Too blatant for new scum, I think.
ADK: Unfortunate he's just going to leave his vote on town without saying anything the rest of the day. At least he tried to consider my reasoning though. Null, I suppose.
Ichi: His vote was the first time it made me think that there was a real chance I get lynched today, so pretty opportunistic. I'd say ADK's was even moreso though. I can understand his thought process the best though because we actually discussed, and well he has since quite sensibly unvoted, which I'm not sure scum would have taken the time to do. He also responded well to my questioning. Townread.
I am slightly biased to be more likely to townread those who seem to have considered more carefully.
Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time.
but I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
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People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....
Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
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I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.
It was 100% gut at that time. The joke wasn't scummy.
Your recent back and fourth with fontisian is scummy, though. And so is the fact that you aren't voting for her.
Agree
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
Not knowing if scum has daychat is a townslip, although fairly easy to fake.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
If he's scum, then he knows whether scum has daychat in this game. So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
Obviously, it's possible that as scum he cleverly decided to pretend to question this (maybe, he was actually thinking about it before the game started, and waited until now to think about it.) I consider this less likely.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
Not knowing if scum has daychat is a townslip, although fairly easy to fake.
I think it's more that Jan's line of thinking here wouldn't actually occur to scum, who know the answers. Therefore the entire line of thinking would need to have been fabricated. That's harder to fake than just saying "Oh, I forgot daychat." (This is something that silverscum actually did in the championship game as scum.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
If he's scum, then he knows whether scum has daychat in this game. So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
Obviously, it's possible that as scum he cleverly decided to pretend to question this (maybe, he was actually thinking about it before the game started, and waited until now to think about it.) I consider this less likely.
Yes, I did in fact miss it. That is a total town slip.
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well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
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*vote: iguana
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well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
!!!
vote: Iguana
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Excellent play, SS! You are the master. 8)
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Not sure if I believe this from ss.
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[silverspawn's usual bullshit]
okay then, you always scumread me though
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[silverspawn's usual bullshit]
okay then, you always scumread me though
do you have any evidence of games where I was town and scumread you or did you just want to make an OMGUS post?
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On my catchup reread, first two things I noticed.
1)
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Not really game related, but don't downplay yourself! You were brutally bussed by both your partners. Hell, I LED that wagon.
This:
well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
I actually buy this. Happy to vote iguana once I check I'm not derphammering or something stupid.
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[silverspawn's usual bullshit]
okay then, you always scumread me though
You didn't even say scum had a day chat...
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vote: iguana
More to come.
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not derphammering
You're not but it's still
something stupid.
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well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
But scum probably don't have daychat right?
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Excellent play, SS! You are the master. 8)
WOW what a flip-flop
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People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....
Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?
Well e is super towny so there's that. I agree with most everything he says, and it sounds like hr means it. And it's mostly the same people who suspect both of us. I mean, he could be buddying me, but he's just making too much sense for that. So I can repeat the thing he said about being ashamed for voting lio about him.
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Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
Did I explain my meta-reason for townreading Seprix? (I know you don't love meta reasons, but they're what I got). I think I mentioned it. Basically, read Fruit Ninja Mafia, where I was scum. He was town there but I enjoyed painting him as scummy because of some weird behaviour he had. If he's scum here, he's imitating that behaviour pretty damn well.
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
It's quite simple. Melisandre, you have been driving the game forward like a good little town. However, you're not lynched yet. Why? Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds, so how is he not dead yet? I think it's very reasonable to conclude (especially with a very odd IG NK) that one of you, and possibly both (I won't go that far) is scum.
WIFOM WIFOM.
This is weak about Meli in particular.
I CAN kinda see the Teproc argument, though that's WIFOM too. Teproc hasn't looked outright scummy to me so far, and I'm thinking I might targetted reread him in a bit.
In other news, my gut is still finding lio's latest stuff scummy. There's probably some confirmation bias here, but this:
The end of yesterday makes me read Seprix as much more likely to be town. He just had lots of genuine split-second reactions. So I'll assime he's town for now. Makes me feel suspicious of hydrad/iguana, because that wagon had way too much resistance. If iguana is town, then all the end-of-day wagons were town, and so scum is likely to be waiting and just letting town choose their mislynch. Either way, makes me lean town on everyone who pushed the Hydrad lynch. Who was that? I'll go check.
This makes much more sense to me.
I disagree with. To me, this looks like lio coming up with a pretty convoluted reason to find people-pushing-Hydrad towny, and in doing so perhaps he distances himself from a partner? That's a long shot, sure.
But I don't agree that this argument makes a whole lot of sense. Too many ifs and buts.
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Man I can't even remember whether or not I find e towny in this game. I can't read e well in general. I guess I'll reread him as well as Teproc.
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But scum probably don't have daychat right?
well the argument works both ways. If I'm right about igu then I'd say they prob do, because that should make it more likely to have been on his mind.
Excellent play, SS! You are the master. 8)
WOW what a flip-flop
yeah that was odd.
What do you think about the argument?
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But scum probably don't have daychat right?
well the argument works both ways. If I'm right about igu then I'd say they prob do, because that should make it more likely to have been on his mind.
Excellent play, SS! You are the master. 8)
WOW what a flip-flop
yeah that was odd.
What do you think about the argument?
I think your argument is nearly irrelevant because I put it at under a 1 in 5 chance that scum have daychat.
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Just read all of Teproc. I think he's really towny overall. No idea where the people voting him are coming from.
Three things I set aside as I passed them:
1)
PPE : Boo, silver. Boo.
?
Explaining metas. Not only would it have been entertaining, it could have been revealing. Possibly annoying too, but ohwell.
PPE : Well, I only scumread you when you're scum is the thing, but I see.
That's demonstrably false.
I actually don't think it is. I'm very good at catching you. Maybe I was wrong once, but I can think of three separate times where my "ADK isn't obvtown to me, must be scum" method worked.
This is the one outright scummy thing Teproc has done that I've seen. This kind of "Oh I have this method, it works so well, at least well enough to be worth going with" is like hedging, but one step sideways: it lets you say later, "Oh no, my method! Disaster!" Rather than actually being accountable.
2)
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Was it J Reggie trying to encourage conversation... was J Reggie going to present his reads on gkrieg/Teproc? I read it as he's having problems trying to sort those two slots. Null on the 'hey-guys-how-are-you-reading-me-right-now?' - it shows he is comfortable, but I wouldn't call it town confidence right now: I need to hear him be more expressive with his reads.
This post jumped out to me as well. J Reggie is a new player, so I don't know any more than you here, but I have the opposite read on it : I think it shows that he's nervous on what people think of him, which I think is generally a scummy trait.
Jumping on Silver? I missed that.
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
This is super townie and I agree entirely, by the way. Reggie is still a bit scummy. Read Fruit Ninja.
3)
The big thing is his pushing liopoil. He actually posts that he finds lio mildly towny, quite early on, then suddenly throws this out
I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This is super towny. Scum really don't like to go for such a big flip-flop, the more so when the original read was a weak one. If they've been reading someone as really strongly town, scum can get away with a drastic flip on the back of "Oh my god, why does everyone find this person scummy, what the hell, all my assumptions must be rethought!" But scum like to avoid going from mild town to strong scum, because they think it looks hedgy.
Plus his case on lio is pretty good and he's been driving that hard. If lio is town, scum would not want to be pushing that hard for a mislynch. If lio is scum, well, why bus this early? Seems crazy.
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fontisian
Reggie
Roadrunner
Ichi
ADK
Teproc
Haddock
lio
gkreig
Jan
silverspawn
Melisandre
Awaclus
Hydrad
Seprix
e
How does D1's events effect the rainbow?
Roadrunner
Reggie
Haddock
Teproc
ADK
silverspawn
Seprix
lio
Melisandre
Jan
gkreig
Iguana
e
I think the best point Haddock just made in Teproc's favor is the quote of his flipflop on lio. I'll add that Teproc's phrasing, where he was clearly worried about being scumread for going after someone who was mostly townread but made the case anyway, was hella towny.
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Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?
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Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
This summarises my current stance pretty nicely.
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Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
That's not a townslip at all, unless I'm missing something.
If he's scum, then he knows whether scum has daychat in this game. So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
Obviously, it's possible that as scum he cleverly decided to pretend to question this (maybe, he was actually thinking about it before the game started, and waited until now to think about it.) I consider this less likely.
Lmao, what? You think Jan would slip up as scum by claiming day chat either exists or doesn't exist. Seriously?
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Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
This summarises my current stance pretty nicely.
It is know.
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Ok, I just realized something that would make this scum!ii make more sense. Nothing was said in thread that indicated Hydrad needed to be replaced, not even a prod or anything. Simply art the start of the day, ii was there instead of Hydrad. This seems a little weird and could be because Hydrad or Hydrad's buddies were talking about it in the scum cutie. It would also make sense as it's more critical for every scum to be dedicated to the game than for every town. This along with the recent case on ii leads me to vote: ii.
Sorry, I was really hoping not to vote for you this game after the way I tunneled you in Fruit Ninja, but the case is just too good.
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Oh, I'm joining a wagon. Cool.
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Wow, that wagon grew quickly. I think it's L-3.
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vote: iguana
I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch.
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We should probably wait to hear from ii before someone hammers.
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vote: iguana
I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch.
This seems scummy though.
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Request Vote Count
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Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
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Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. RR saying "isn't that scummy" used to be a rocksolid scumtell for RR. And it just ISN'T any more. So annoying.
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Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. RR saying "isn't that scummy" used to be a rocksolid scumtell for RR. And it just ISN'T any more. So annoying.
Sorry bud. If you want to read me, ask EFHW. She knows the secret and she's told a few people (like Liopoil).
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@Seprix - can you explain your scum-read of Teproc. He was in my D1 comfortable pile.
My case on Teproc has dissolved, and taking out all of the WIFOMs I had, it all highly depends on liopoil's alignment. If lio flips as town, Teproc looks bad. If he flips scum, Teproc is probably town.
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Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. RR saying "isn't that scummy" used to be a rocksolid scumtell for RR. And it just ISN'T any more. So annoying.
Sorry bud. If you want to read me, ask EFHW. She knows the secret and she's told a few people (like Liopoil).
Here's a good way: RR, are you scum?
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Where is Teproc anyway? Last post was more than three days ago.
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Should we request a prod?
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He's been online. He's likely lurking.
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Come out come out wherever you are Teproc.
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request prod on Teproc
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Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. RR saying "isn't that scummy" used to be a rocksolid scumtell for RR. And it just ISN'T any more. So annoying.
Sorry bud. If you want to read me, ask EFHW. She knows the secret and she's told a few people (like Liopoil).
Here's a good way: RR, are you scum?
Negative
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Bleh I still don't know how to feel about Teproc. I agree with the recent things that have been said in his favor. But why is he tunnelling me?
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Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?
Okay this is a terrible vote:
"scum!iguana implies scum!lio [thus lio is strictly more likely to be scum], so vote iguana". Okay, not quite what she said, but this vote just doesn't have a rationale.
Increasingly getting a scum vibe from fontisian.
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People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
People who have stated any good reason to suspect iguana recently: liopoil, J Reggie
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Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?
Okay this is a terrible vote:
"scum!iguana implies scum!lio [thus lio is strictly more likely to be scum], so vote iguana". Okay, not quite what she said, but this vote just doesn't have a rationale.
Increasingly getting a scum vibe from fontisian.
Iguana is likely scum regardless of your alignment, but if he is scum, you're at the top of list of potential partners.
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People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
And, y'know. Silverspawn. And me-sheeping-silverspawn.
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Why is that even worth mentioning now.
This is my beef with all sentences which hinge on "If x is scum". They are a complete waste of space. Only time I can consider using those words not ridiculous is at lylo or during twilight, or perhaps when a PR claims something.
People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
And, y'know. Silverspawn. And me-sheeping-silverspawn.
uhh yes you are both on that list.
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ok going to reread the first part of D2 now.
I like Teproc's post that opens the day.
This post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606545#msg606545) from JReggie is scummy
Iguana seems hard to read because D1 was super long and it is hard to get in the game. I think it would be fishier if he had reads coming into the day. Saying he has no scum reads seems townie to me.
I thought I was going to be around at the end of the day but got pulled into a meeting at work....new bosses and they are trying to change the duties and responsibilities of my job...so yeah.
Anyway, since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
I am going back to vote: Seprix
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
This is also interesting. RR, do you say that because of the size of the game, or what? I mean, sure, but you seem fairly confident and I don't see anything that says multiball
/Says the lynch felt like scum were pushing it away from other scum
/Votes someone who didn't vote Awaclus
There were five different ways those wagons could have gone. You're telling me you think the Awaclus runup was specifically to save Seprix, when Seprix didn't even try to save himself?
Vote: e
General suggestion: Stop randomly running people up just before the deadline. Jeez.
Looking forward to seeing Lio's thing and iguana's catch up.
This from fonti isn't even true. Seprix did vote for Awaclus, he was the first person on the wagon.
Interesting that iguana pretty much only picks out stuff from ADK and Teproc.
Currently think might be scum: Teproc, e, Haddock, ADK, any of the new players I have no idea.
Would be happy with a wagon on any of those. vote: Teproc.
Why Teproc out of that whole group?
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606611#msg606611) from Seprix is just strange
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
vote: Teproc
Let's start here.
Is that really your case on Teproc? I didn't expect Teproc to be killed N1 at all. Sure he was townie, but he wasn't doing the work that Melis was doing. After everything that has happened, why did you pick Teproc?
Up to #1225 now.
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@Gkreig
@Seprix - can you explain your scum-read of Teproc. He was in my D1 comfortable pile.
My case on Teproc has dissolved, and taking out all of the WIFOMs I had, it all highly depends on liopoil's alignment. If lio flips as town, Teproc looks bad. If he flips scum, Teproc is probably town.
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Fail. Lemme try again:
People who have stated any good reason to suspect iguana recently: liopoil, J Reggie
And, y know. Silverspawn. And me.
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I will reread Teproc now
He could be scum. Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into
Mega Scummy post here from e
e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
I want to ask this question back to fonti What do you think they would do?
e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.
Actually, I think it makes it easier to find scum right now.
The idea that you shouldn't ever give a read away because meta is ridiculous.
I don't actually get what you mean by this
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606687#msg606687) from e looks slightly better.
Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.
I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.
In the other I was read as scum throughout d.
In one RMM game I barely got to play.
In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.
So you can't really conclude this at all.
The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.
Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing. Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable. Sorry about that.
E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start. I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.
Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie
This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.
Why did you go in depth about e and Teproc then vote JReggie and completely not talk about anything else?
I am also okay with a Melisandre lynch. I think scum is within Teproc/Melis, possibly both.
The longer he keeps going with this, the more I want to lynch him
and it looks like I've commented on mostly everything up to this point. Now I just need to get it all straight and put some reads together. Then do some rereads.
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Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.
I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.
In the other I was read as scum throughout d.
In one RMM game I barely got to play.
In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.
So you can't really conclude this at all.
The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.
Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing. Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable. Sorry about that.
E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start. I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.
Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie
This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.
Why did you go in depth about e and Teproc then vote JReggie and completely not talk about anything else?
what? Have you, like, even read that post?
I talk about plenty of other things. Seprix for instance.
And I don't go into any detail about e and Teproc, just throwing out my first thoughts about them. Notice that I reread Teproc just now and gave detail then.
Seriously. I don't even understand what you mean by this question.
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So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
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Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.
I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.
In the other I was read as scum throughout d.
In one RMM game I barely got to play.
In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.
So you can't really conclude this at all.
The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.
Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing. Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable. Sorry about that.
E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start. I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.
Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie
This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.
Why did you go in depth about e and Teproc then vote JReggie and completely not talk about anything else?
what? Have you, like, even read that post?
I talk about plenty of other things. Seprix for instance.
And I don't go into any detail about e and Teproc, just throwing out my first thoughts about them. Notice that I reread Teproc just now and gave detail then.
Seriously. I don't even understand what you mean by this question.
Missed the Seprix part of this post completely, was just going off of what I was reading at the time, instead of looking at what you said about Teproc later.
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So your question is:
Why have I reread Teproc and not specifically e or reggie or any of the many other players?
Or something similar to that.
That may actually be a legit question.
Answer: cant reread everyone. I have to prioritise. Lots of people scumreading Teproc so that seemed a good place to start.
Rereading reggie would make a lot of sense now that I think about it, so yeah I guess I'll do that, tomorrow maybe.
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No wait, I misread your most recent post. I thought you were saying you WERE including my Teproc reread which was why the question asked why I had gone into detail about Teproc.
In which case I go back to my original stance. Your question makes no sense and I need you to rephrase it.
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Vote Count 2.2
liopoil (2): Teproc, gkrieg13
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (6): silverspawn, Seprix, Haddock, fontisian, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4): liopoil, Melisandre, iguanaiguana, Jan
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
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So L-2?
Uh oh.
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So L-2?
Uh oh.
Is ii you're scum partner?
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request prod on Teproc
Teproc has been prodded.
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*your
And I hope ii shows up soon.
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So L-2?
Uh oh.
Is ii you're scum partner?
No, he is town.
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So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
There is a guy with quite some votes on himself. You have him in the middle right next to me. Can you see him? Good.
So your plan right now is reading some people to maybe get a sure towncircle (good idea if you are fast enough to be done with it within 24/48 hours).
And then .. you go to the slight-scum/scum-pile to make a case .. at which point you still don't have an opinion on the guy in the middle that has half of the game voting on him.
I don't mind giving a sub some breathing room to get into the game, but not having him on your list of people to get a read on at this point?!
Do you mind telling me why that is this way?
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Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
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Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
???
But he does...?
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Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
I told myself to not do things for a few days until other people have done things that are fun.
Deal with it.
Still reading and if you have actual questions and not pointless demands, feel free to ask. I am not your puppet. (But i will now listen to master of puppets for a while, good idea myself!)
I mean when you redid your readslist it just looked closer to my d1 list.
Could you explain to me why you had liopoil as such a high townread and what exactly changed your mind?
And why do you think silverspawn is town, i think he moved up a bit if i recall correctly.
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if you like metal then you have the possibility to enjoy actually good music. you don't have to listen to master of puppets.
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And why do you think silverspawn is town, i think he moved up a bit if i recall correctly.
The better question is why I was I down in the first place?!?
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Seprix and ADK, maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't you oppose the Hydrad lynch yesterday? What changed your mind, other than SS's post?
My current lynch candidates:
Teproc
Iguanaiguana
Jan
fontisian
I'd be willing to consider others, but these are the main people I want to look more closely at for now. I have townreads of varying degree on:
myself
e
RR
SS
Haddock
Melisandre
This leaves ADK, Seprix, J Reggie, and gkrieg floating somewhere in the middle.
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So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
There is a guy with quite some votes on himself. You have him in the middle right next to me. Can you see him? Good.
So your plan right now is reading some people to maybe get a sure towncircle (good idea if you are fast enough to be done with it within 24/48 hours).
And then .. you go to the slight-scum/scum-pile to make a case .. at which point you still don't have an opinion on the guy in the middle that has half of the game voting on him.
I don't mind giving a sub some breathing room to get into the game, but not having him on your list of people to get a read on at this point?!
Do you mind telling me why that is this way?
This is partially because I thought we had a lot of time left (we kinda do) before the deadline. I don't think there is enough of him to reread, and I don't think he is scummy from what I reread of him. I feel like I would rather make sure that my reads that aren't very strong are stronger, and I also think they are the people who need some scrutiny on my part
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Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
I told myself to not do things for a few days until other people have done things that are fun.
Deal with it.
Still reading and if you have actual questions and not pointless demands, feel free to ask. I am not your puppet. (But i will now listen to master of puppets for a while, good idea myself!)
I mean when you redid your readslist it just looked closer to my d1 list.
Could you explain to me why you had liopoil as such a high townread and what exactly changed your mind?
And why do you think silverspawn is town, i think he moved up a bit if i recall correctly.
Both were already explained, babe.
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I have some reservations about all four candidates:
Teproc: He clearly thought he had found something on me originally. I need to reread what he's done after that
iguana: So part of the thing was that his lynch was opposed yesterday, but it has been really easy today. So I'm not convinced yet.
Jan: At least his posting habits have been consistent.
fontisian: Mostly gut, but it's suddenly feeling like she's playing a really easy scum game. I don't actually have anything to give her towncred for anymore. Hm.
Well, like I said, I still need to think more about all four. I'm aware that there isn't much content in the last couple posts, I'm just putting it out there.
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iguana: So part of the thing was that his lynch was opposed yesterday, but it has been really easy today. So I'm not convinced yet.
J Reggie instantly shot that read down, just saying. Others opposed it, saying it was farfetched. Despite that, here we are at L-2. I think it's a better case than you give it credit for, and if Iguana flips scum, it looks bad on J Reggie, and if Iguana flips town, it looks bad on SS.
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Discredit what I said there, please. I just went back there to find 'others', and of course there are none, and J Reggie backpedaled and voted II anyways.
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I still think it's a good case.
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if you like metal then you have the possibility to enjoy actually good music. you don't have to listen to master of puppets.
i like a lot of music that involves guitars.
Master of puppets is fun because of memories of seeing it live. And I do like old metallica sometimes.
But I agree there are some fun metal bands out there (as a warning i am not that much into black/trash/death metal) .. i prefer clean vocals most of the time.
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Discredit what I said there, please
I already had.
Haddock said it was far-fetched, but it still makes sense to me and it doesn't assume too much.
I also liked iguana's reaction to SS's post.
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if you like metal then you have the possibility to enjoy actually good music. you don't have to listen to master of puppets.
i like a lot of music that involves guitars.
Master of puppets is fun because of memories of seeing it live. And I do like old metallica sometimes.
But I agree there are some fun metal bands out there (as a warning i am not that much into black/trash/death metal) .. i prefer clean vocals most of the time.
Bands I like that are not metal but are still with lots of guitars: Tame Impala (1st + 2nd Album); Weezer (only have heard first two albums, but they are great)
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Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
I told myself to not do things for a few days until other people have done things that are fun.
Deal with it.
Still reading and if you have actual questions and not pointless demands, feel free to ask. I am not your puppet. (But i will now listen to master of puppets for a while, good idea myself!)
I mean when you redid your readslist it just looked closer to my d1 list.
Could you explain to me why you had liopoil as such a high townread and what exactly changed your mind?
And why do you think silverspawn is town, i think he moved up a bit if i recall correctly.
Both were already explained, babe.
You explained that lio would be a possible igi partner.
Did not explain silver. (At least not in the little bit of thread i reread)
So your only reason to scumread liopoil right now is that you believe igi was distancing?
Or do you have more?
Which just means all of you changes just depend on that single read you got?
Which would be okay, but if that guy is scum then he spewed me as town and you know that and didn't include it in your readlist?
Curious to why.
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if you like metal then you have the possibility to enjoy actually good music. you don't have to listen to master of puppets.
i like a lot of music that involves guitars.
Master of puppets is fun because of memories of seeing it live. And I do like old metallica sometimes.
But I agree there are some fun metal bands out there (as a warning i am not that much into black/trash/death metal) .. i prefer clean vocals most of the time.
Bands I like that are not metal but are still with lots of guitars: Tame Impala (1st + 2nd Album); Weezer (only have heard first two albums, but they are great)
Have to check out Tame Impala. Know weezer, they are fun depending on my mood.
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Seprix and ADK, maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't you oppose the Hydrad lynch yesterday? What changed your mind, other than SS's post?
I remember being down for a Hydrad lynch yesterday. Did I oppose it? I'll go check.
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He was always in my lynchpool, I don't recall there ever being much momentum on his wagon.
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He was always in my lynchpool, I don't recall there ever being much momentum on his wagon.
I just reread it a little bit.
Silver just called out the name, lio, seprix and fonti jumped on it (in that order).
RR and Awaclus defended hydrad. I said it is a 0 information lynch, which made seprix unvote.
Awaclus is dead now (flipped town). RR is still pretty adamant on his townread on the hydrad-slot.
I am less sure. I personally would prefer the lio kill and then moving forward looking and the sub.
Day is long and full of terror, so we have time to decide.
I will do this for now :
Vote: liopoil
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Liopoil is also a fine lynch.
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Seprix and ADK, maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't you oppose the Hydrad lynch yesterday? What changed your mind, other than SS's post?
I remember being down for a Hydrad lynch yesterday. Did I oppose it? I'll go check.
My bad then, and it looks like Seprix waffled too.
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iguanaiguana (6): silverspawn, Seprix, Haddock, fontisian, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
Looking at the case on iguanaiguana now.
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What is the Dominion Strategy Mafia Forum's conventions/standards on day scum-chat on normal games (16 players)?
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What is the Dominion Strategy Mafia Forum's conventions/standards on day scum-chat on normal games (16 players)?
The normal thing is not to have it.
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Sorry mate, I need to get this clearly in my head... :-X
Can you talk me through it one more time:
- from the perspective of Jan (with his "If this game does not have scumchat" comment)
- from the perspective of iguanaiguana (with his "If he's scum, then he knows whether scum has daychat in this game. So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town." comment)
- from the perspective of Seprix (with his change from "Yes, I did in fact miss it. That is a total town slip" to "Excellent play, SS! You are the master")
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Okay. It ultimately does not matter whether scum actually does or doesn't have daychat.
Jan: Could be of either alignment. No particular meaning behind his post.
Iguanda: So, I admit this is a bit convoluted. It seemed clearer when it happened.
The argument is that he would only think of Jan's comment as a town slip if he thought that whether or not scum has daychat is written in the setup. If it's not written in the setup, then that's just town!Jan making a harmless comment, or scum!Jan making a post like any other, i.e. pretending not to have information. If it is written in the setup then town should know it, and not knowing it is then a town slip, real or fabricated.
So that's why I think he thought it was written in the setup. And the only scenario where he thinks that is if he's scum. He knows anyway, he can forget that it wasn't in the setup. If he was town, he wouldn't know at all, so there's no way he could think it was in the setup.
Seprix: I have no idea what his thought process was.
It's good that you asked me to explain it, because now I realize that it's not as strong as I thought initially. Nonetheless, I don't think it's weak, and I think igu's reaction is bad on its own.
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Jan is towny for asking about a daychat.
Scum already knows whether or not they have one. Would scum Jan! really ask?
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Jan is towny for asking about a daychat.
Scum already knows whether or not they have one. Would scum Jan! really ask?
If i was scum then I would be inclined to ask something like that the moment i realize it is not written in the setup. Free towncred is the best towncred.
Would i realize that it is not written in the setup as scum?
Hard to say I only looked it up because I had a reason to look for it in the first place (fontis comment).
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Jan is towny for asking about a daychat.
Scum already knows whether or not they have one. Would scum Jan! really ask?
If i was scum then I would be inclined to ask something like that the moment i realize it is not written in the setup. Free towncred is the best towncred.
Would i realize that it is not written in the setup as scum?
Hard to say I only looked it up because I had a reason to look for it in the first place (fontis comment).
It's a closed setup though...
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I don't think asking about day chat is scummy or townie. It is "new-to-f.ds-y"
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Not sure what to make of this iguana wagon. The case seems a little...well....fabricated. I will have to go back and look at iguana more carefully
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I'd rather go for 2.7 today than lipoil. Much rather, actually.
Let's go with a Vote: 2.7
Did you have time to explain scum-2.7 yet (in regard my post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg607339#msg607339))?
Did I explain my meta-reason for townreading Seprix? (I know you don't love meta reasons, but they're what I got). I think I mentioned it. Basically, read Fruit Ninja Mafia, where I was scum. He was town there but I enjoyed painting him as scummy because of some weird behaviour he had. If he's scum here, he's imitating that behaviour pretty damn well.
Noted - thanks for this meta-defence.
Okay. It ultimately does not matter whether scum actually does or doesn't have daychat.
Yes, that is partly my confusion. I didn't know if you were saying 'iguanaiguana knows that scum have day chat because he is scum' or 'iguanaiguana knows that scum do not have day chat because he is scum'. To be fair, I'm still not 100% in my understanding.
The argument is that he would only think of Jan's comment as a town slip if he thought that whether or not scum has daychat is written in the setup. If it's not written in the setup, then that's just town!Jan making a harmless comment, or scum!Jan making a post like any other, i.e. pretending not to have information. If it is written in the setup then town should know it, and not knowing it is then a town slip, real or fabricated.
So that's why I think he thought it was written in the setup. And the only scenario where he thinks that is if he's scum. He knows anyway, he can forget that it wasn't in the setup. If he was town, he wouldn't know at all, so there's no way he could think it was in the setup.
Yes, the only part that concern's me is that he called it a "town slip". He should be null on it. It could be town-Jan not knowing the set-up, or scum-Jan faking not-knowing-the-set-up. I need to go through in my head a few more times whether iguanaiguana presuming that scum daychat is written in the setup is scum-indicative (thus, I'm uncertain if it was an out-right scum-slip).
It's good that you asked me to explain it, because now I realize that it's not as strong as I thought initially. Nonetheless, I don't think it's weak, and I think igu's reaction is bad on its own.
Yes, he reacted by not actually tackling the points raised by you step by step (it sounded like he was not scum-reading you before this post, and not scum-reading you after your case on him either):
[silverspawn's usual bullshit]
okay then, you always scumread me though
iguanaiguana didn't stay online to challenge the votes that poured onto his wagon either... :-\
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I need to go through in my head a few more times whether iguanaiguana presuming that scum daychat is written in the setup is scum-indicative
IT IS. There's freaking never a scum day chat on f.ds, so since II has assumed it exists for some odd reason, it is apparent that II is scum, and that there is a scum day chat.
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iguanaiguana didn't stay online to challenge the votes that poured onto his wagon either...
Because we caught him! Try defending that accusation. You cannot. The best thing to do is to ignore it. It's already going away somehow because II isn't addressing it, which I cannot believe.
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Ok, I just realized something that would make this scum!ii make more sense. Nothing was said in thread that indicated Hydrad needed to be replaced, not even a prod or anything. Simply art the start of the day, ii was there instead of Hydrad. This seems a little weird and could be because Hydrad or Hydrad's buddies were talking about it in the scum cutie. It would also make sense as it's more critical for every scum to be dedicated to the game than for every town. This along with the recent case on ii leads me to vote: ii.
This is an interesting angle - however, if I'm to play devil's advocate, his slot wasn't under too much pressure going into D2, the scum-team could have let that slot naturally fade into the periphery and be replaced D2, UNLESS that slot had an active scum-power that only HE could choose to use N1.
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The good thing is, if it is a scum-slip, we can conclude that his scum team also know it was a scum-slip, and are very likely already on his wagon with bus votes 8)
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The good thing is, if it is a scum-slip, we can conclude that his scum team also know it was a scum-slip, and are very likely already on his wagon with bus votes 8)
On the other hand, if it wasn't a scumslip, we can still conclude the scum team also knows it wasn't....which might scare them off the wagon constructed around a scum slip.
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I am confident that scum exists on that wagon, I just have never been too convinced by "scumslip" arguments. Still need to read iguana as a whole and see how he looks
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But also, who is more likely to initiate a scum slip argument? Town or scum? I think town.
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But I think scum!seprix totally jumps onto the argument
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I've had time to explain the 2.7 case, but there isn't a case. We'll call it gut.
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The good thing is, if it is a scum-slip, we can conclude that his scum team also know it was a scum-slip, and are very likely already on his wagon with bus votes 8)
3 meta 5 me
But I think scum!seprix totally jumps onto the argument
Wrong.
I am confident that scum exists on that wagon, I just have never been too convinced by "scumslip" arguments. Still need to read iguana as a whole and see how he looks
I don't know, the argument looks very reasonable here. We could ignore it and lynch liopoil instead if you like.
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iguanaiguana didn't stay online to challenge the votes that poured onto his wagon either...
Because we caught him! Try defending that accusation. You cannot. The best thing to do is to ignore it. It's already going away somehow because II isn't addressing it, which I cannot believe.
Goodness gracious, I'm at work! I had a double shift: 2:30PM-10:30PM one night, 5:30am-2:45PM the next morning.
I'm on lunch. I'll respond to all of this when I get off work.
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iguanaiguana didn't stay online to challenge the votes that poured onto his wagon either...
Because we caught him! Try defending that accusation. You cannot. The best thing to do is to ignore it. It's already going away somehow because II isn't addressing it, which I cannot believe.
Goodness gracious, I'm at work! I had a double shift: 2:30PM-10:30PM one night, 5:30am-2:45PM the next morning.
I'm on lunch. I'll respond to all of this when I get off work.
Oh... Sorry. :(
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Teproc reread:
RVS says Hydrad is most likely to be lynched D1. Also puts Seprix on that list
ADK votes for him for buddying ADK and his reaction seems genuine.
Generally tries to get us out of RVS
claims to be good at reading ADK
I like his reaction to the whole Melis reads list thing. I think it reads very genuine.
His reasoning for finding Melis at this point also seems like genuine scum hunting. It is meta driven, but that is something good enough for the beginning of D1.
This post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603471#msg603471) especially looks like solid evaluation and townie from Teproc. Hopefully he keeps this up in the later days.
votes for JReg
His desire for everyone to have personal text so he can reread them is also townie. Rereads in general looking for scum is townie.
here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603801#msg603801) he townreads RR and lio, while scum reading Awaclus
Then that town read on lio evaporates with this post:
I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
I think this change in read is also townie
says e is somewhat scummy
but then says his rereads look townie
changes his read on melis to town
Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.
This post goes along earlier with him saying he has a great ability to read ADK
Melisandre, ADK are super townie.
e and Ichi are townie.
Haddock and Awaclus are scummy-ish. Various reasons, but I can't remember anything by Haddock this game, and he's a player I tend to be find very interesting.
J Reggie (who disappeared once his wagon did) and liopoil are priority lynches.
Everyone else I'm null on, more or less. I need to reread Jan and fontisian : there should be some revealing stuff in there, Jan especially.
This is great! I thought I was going to have to put this together myself.
So his reads that changed are ADK and Melis. Somewhat his read on e changed. His liopoil read did a complete 180. The only thing surprising about this reads list is that he doesn't have Seprix on it. Slight scum points for not taking a stance on him.
Says that e vs. Jan is town v town
His first post of the day looks townie. Originally I thought it looked too put together until I realized the time stamps were 3 hours apart between the opening of the day and his post. I like his reaction to the lynch and to the claim from lio.
goes into more theory/meta stuff and then disappears.
So Conclusion
My townread on Teproc got a lot stronger after this. He seems to be scumhunting, moving the game along, taking hard stances on the more controversial stuff. His case on lio is very genuine, and a good case. His push of his wagon is warranted.
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ADK reread:
votes for Seprix for voting for Melis
believes that the Melis reads list didn't look that contrived
votes Teproc for buddying
says he wants to vote for Awaclus most of the time
keeps talking about his Seprix vote, that it was a good one and that Seprix was trying to discourage discussion. I'm not sure this is the best case on Seprix. I do think it reads pretty townie though. But I don't really like this case. I think scum is more likely to sit back and not get into the discussion D1. Although some people are unable to do that because of their meta.
his defense here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603403#msg603403) also seems townie
Vote count?
Basically, the problem I have is this: You suddenly changed your read on me as I apply the pressure on you. You cracked. If it didn't work out like that, you would have kept your original read, and you know it. You never mentioned that you were changing your opinion on me before. Seems weird to suddenly bring it up now.
I like my vote. I say ADK is as good a D1 lynch as any.
I changed my opinion on you when you were having your discussion with Melis. About when I made the "this is good" post I think.
Here he changes his opinion on Seprix
I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
Then he actually defends Seprix. This looks like a naturally evolving read.
points Melis to a lot of his games. I don't think scum is very likely to do that.
votes Hydrad for lurking
vote: liopoil
I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go.
Here is his vote on the lio wagon the first time.
Wow then he has a super long catchup post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604692#msg604692)
So my lynchpool looks like:
liopoil, Hydrad, Awaclus, Seprix, e. The liopoil read is probably the strongest, with e after that, and I think those would be the most informative lynches. I'm going to go with
Vote: e
I think this is the most important part of that big post. All 5 of these people actually get wagons on them at the end of the day, which I found somewhat strange. I have no idea if that is scummy, townie, or just a coincidence.
votes lio then e
wants more to lynch lio, then gets the Awaclus lynch put together. This doesn't seem that scummy from him. His end of day play really does look good considering he was fine with lynching any of the wagons, which is what his reread indicated.
D2:
calls Melis town, then votes for ss
votes for iguana and then looks back for his stance on Hydrad
Conclusion
His town read was also strengthened, so I don't want to lynch him. Mainly it was the content of his big long reread post. His stances on there seem very well-founded and genuine. Not as strong as a town read as Teproc, because I don't think he has taken as strong of stances and his scum hunting hasn't been as strong.
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To be honest, I'm not really sure if Iguana's thing was a scumslip or not. But, it was more bad analysis from a slot that was inactive and refused to give any reasoning yesterDay and hasn't improved much toDay.
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I'll do my best to respond to the votes on me one at a time, since everyone is more or less voting me for a different reason.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
The crux of silver's argument revolves around the definitions of scumslip and townslip. When I made my post, I was thinking of a townslip as any line of thought that indicates it is coming from town, and would be difficult for scum to fake. Probably, I should have said it was a strong town-tell, not a slip. silver however believes that I, as scum, believed that daychat was posted in the setup and scumslipped.
1) Most games on this site don't have daychat. Already has been said.
2) Why would I make the mistake of thinking that something is posted in the setup when literally almost nothing is posted in the setup? This setup is completely closed, and we're given two paragraphs of very general information on it.
3) Look at the timestamps. I made the townslip comment #1333 at 2:46PM. Seprix responded with post #1335 at 2:49PM. I responded at #1338 with a clarification of what I meant at 2:54PM. The entire space of the interchange was 8 minutes. This was not me inventing a fake explanation to cover up a mistake; that would have taken me longer. It was me clarifying an idea that was already in my head. I read and responded to Seprix's comment within 5 minutes.
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Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?
You say I was thinking "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Actually, the line of thinking was:
"Teproc's case looks good in isolation, but in the context it makes Teproc look scummy and Liopoil looks town because Teproc's play has been scummy.
I shared my developing scumread on Teproc here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606575#msg606575) and here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606882#msg606882) I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with, only to come back and make a snap case on Liopoil based on him being self-conscious. I don't know what Teproc has done in the middle of the game, because I wasn't there, but his not being around for the EoD1 looks bad, and continuing to tunnel Liopoil after Liopoil has only made towny contributions to the game since the initial 'case' looks bad too.
I will admit that confirmation bias may have played a role. I hesitated to scumread Liopoil for the awkward comment because I was already scumreading Teproc, and he was making the case.
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when you are done responding to your accusers could you do me the favor and tell us who you think is likely town and/or scum in-between them, thanks.
(Not sure if anyone but me gets the pure joy i get from asking this here)
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Lmao, what? You think Jan would slip up as scum by claiming day chat either exists or doesn't exist. Seriously?
I do not understand this question at all, as that's not even remotely close to what I was trying to say. Let's look at the original statement again.
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Jan is thinking out loud here. His line of thought is "I wonder if there is daychat for scum, because if there is, this could be Fontisian coaching Liopoil on how to play."
This is a fairly unique thought, the kind which is hard to make up. It's even harder to make up as scum because as scum, you're not wasting your time wondering whether or not daychat exists in the setup, you already know. So you're vastly less likely to just throw something like that thought out into the thread and see where it goes.
But why am I even arguing about this when we can settle this easily.
Jan: Do you think that you would have been likely to have made up that line of thinking about Fontisian possibly coaching Liopoil if you knew for a fact that daychat for scum did or did not exist?
Bleh, what an awful question. This is super complicated and I feel like I'm doing a terrible job explaining myself : (
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when you are done responding to your accusers could you do me the favor and tell us who you think is likely town and/or scum in-between them, thanks.
(Not sure if anyone but me gets the pure joy i get from asking this here)
You got it.
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Ok, I just realized something that would make this scum!ii make more sense. Nothing was said in thread that indicated Hydrad needed to be replaced, not even a prod or anything. Simply art the start of the day, ii was there instead of Hydrad. This seems a little weird and could be because Hydrad or Hydrad's buddies were talking about it in the scum cutie. It would also make sense as it's more critical for every scum to be dedicated to the game than for every town. This along with the recent case on ii leads me to vote: ii.
Sorry, I was really hoping not to vote for you this game after the way I tunneled you in Fruit Ninja, but the case is just too good.
Alright, this one is fun: there is actually a story here!
First, I was in, then I was out, then I was in, then I was out, then the game filled up. Then I felt really bad that I didn't get to play with all the cool championship people so I pestered Faust about being a sub if anyone wanted to /out. N0 Faust almost subbed me for Hydrad, but ultimately told me that Hydrad had confirmed and he didn't need me. So I watched D1 happen, and I watched Hydrad make a total of 3 posts or whatever the whole day. So I told Faust that if he had reconsidered subbing Hydrad, I still wanted to do it. He told me that he was going to ask Hydrad if he wanted me to sub for him, and if by the end of the night he didn't get a response he would default to letting me sub in. I assume Hydrad did not get a response, because here I am.
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Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
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Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.
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Iguana reread (at Jan's request):
I have arived!
Why is there like 5 pages of posts already! I missed RVS!
also. Totally forgot that I had signed up for this game I got my message. We will se how this goes.
First thoughts.
Hey we have some championship guys here. Thats pretty neat. This should be a fun game.
Seprix feels like a new person. But I don't think hes played for a while so maybe he just changed a bit? still weird.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
O liopoil had a wagon that sounds like fun.
I'm going to go
Vote: fontisian though.
This is a more serious vote then the awaclus one.
Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
I think this discussion is keeping progress going.
Its interesting to see.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
@Hydrad - are you struggling to express your thoughts / reads this game... or finding it difficult to interact with players?
Do you have weak reads? At the moment it looks like you don't want any confrontation - i.e no one to counter your scum-reads/votes. [That playstyle makes me paranoid].
Why are you voting fontisian right now?
This is the only read/reason you have fully expressed/explained:
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
You are on the wrong side of null for me at the moment.
Null scum lean.
catching up again.
Basically I hadn't really planned on joining a mafia game as I don't know if I have much time for it right now. But I forgot that I signed up for this and I didn't want to delay it by outing so I'm trying to stay in and keep playing.
Its also more active then most games I feel like around here so it feels hard for me to keep up as I'm usually pretty lurky anyways. (although I will admit this is a new low for me right now :/. )
as for my vote on fontisian. Its mainly a gut feeling right now. we will see though as I haven't read the next few pages that I've missed if something changes.
and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
So this is all of Hydrad's posts. I quoted them all because there aren't very many of them. The only two that seem scummy are the liopoil wagon one and then his vote on Awaclus at the beginning. His vote on fonti seems pretty genuine, so I would go pretty null on these as a whole though.
now Iguana:
This post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606546#msg606546) from Iguana seems pretty townie. I think scum would've taken a different approach than this. I think they would've looked at a leading wagon and done a reread of them to support it if it was on town.
So here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606575#msg606575) he has almost the entirely opposite reaction to the Teproc/ADK stuff as I had. I feel like scum don't want to have that much interaction together so early in the day. Still don't know what throwing suspicion onto these two would do for him.
I like the analysis he is putting into these reread posts
Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Eh I don't like this. I think if a case is good, it is a good case. It doesn't matter so much that it comes from one of your scum reads.
So then we have the whole townslip/scumslip thing. I think someone who is rereading and notices someone say something about daychat is something you think about. You have to figure out whether it is more likely to come from scum or to come from town. I think it is either a townslip or a fabricated one personally.
then people start to react to that and he gets defensive. I understand his defensiveness. You sub into a game with a lot on your plate and then people start to get to you about something that you still think is a townslip and that you thought was something people hadn't noticed before. I think this reaction is pretty townie.
Conclusion
I don't think there is anything here to make me want to lynch iguana over others today. I think he is still in my would lynch at deadline category, but I don't think he has done anything to deserve so many votes on him. I think I actually lean slightly townie on him.
PPE more stuff from him.
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Alright so currently voting for me are:
Seprix - Town. But I always townread Seprix. But Seprix is always town. Dude is grasping at serious straws here looking for scum, willing to believe almost anything. It's super hard to imitate that kind of cluelessness when you have the game solved.
Fontisian - Uhm....a town??? Her reasons for voting me seem pretty legitimate, although I do think some of it is based in misunderstanding my original posts. She's not buying the scumslip thing, which is a ridiculous argument, so that's town points. But really... she's the mafia champion something something, how am I supposed to be able to tell when she's scum?
Haddock - Pretty null. I can believe that Haddock genuinely thinks I'm scum. He usually does.
J Reggie - IDK. Seriously, IDK. Sorry. No clue how to read this guy.
silverscum - I was townreading him, now I'm not so convinced. His argument was just, awful. It's hard for me to believe he genuinely believes it & it really feels like he's just trying to push a mislynch because he's good with words, has a good reputation, and therefore he can get away with it.
ADK - Scum. I've already talked about this read. Also he just jumped on the wagon hardly commenting.
Is anyone else voting for me?
Also, these reads are weak, mainly because I still haven't read the entire game yet ><
Better get working on that...
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Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.
So you're not IC?
With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.
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Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.
So you're not IC?
With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.
I mean, no. Is anyone? It's a closed setup.
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Thank you gkrieg for the rereads!
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Thank you gkrieg for the rereads!
No problem. I'll do scum reads later today or tomorrow
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Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Slight Town
iguanaiguana
Null
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So now this is the reads list. I think I'll reread e then Seprix then lio. As that is the order of my scum reads on them.
e reread:
after RVS, he votes for Seprix
he has a lot of empty posts then says that he has a lot of empty posts but that he likes his Seprix vote
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong.
Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
I guess I OMGUS'd a little bit from this. But I also made it a little bit easier to read now. This is an interesting reads list. I also think the case on me isn't a particularly good one. The other thing about this reads list is that it doesn't really add anything to the game because he doesn't really give good reasons for any of his reads.
here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604552#msg604552) he says that lio is totally town from his posts. Something to keep in mind if lio flips scum.
I actually just don't like how all of his rereads look.
he comes out on the scummy side of null on Seprix, then reads me as scummy, then votes for Hydrad after Jan's post.
here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585), he gives a good case on Jan actually. This is a very natural feeling case on someone.
stays on the vein that he doesn't want a lio lynch but is fine with the Seprix lynch when he doesn't think the Jan lynch is going to happen.
stays on Seprix
I am saying that scum exists in the pool of people who were lynch candidates at the end of day. So {liopoil, seprix, e, jan}
I am not scum. I don't think liopoil is. Seprix started the movement, as awaclus is an easy enough target to get quick votes due to his sometimes abrasive personality.
This wagon analysis is interesting. He thinks that both he and lio are town and that Seprix started the Awaclus wagon to ensure that he wasn't the lynch. I think if he really thinks that both he and lio are town, why would everyone try to switch to Awaclus instead of just pushing the existing "town" wagons. I'll have to think more about this analysis to see if it makes any sense to me.
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606628#msg606628) and this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606633#msg606633) seem actually pretty townie to me.
Rereads Teproc and says that there are better lynches out there, but he doesn't want to defend him.
says that Iguana's thing that he commented wasn't a townslip or a scumslip. Just a new to f.ds-slip
Says that scum is on Iguana's wagon, and thinks it feels fabricated.
Is still insistent that Seprix is scum.
Conclusion
This reread actually weakens my scum read on him. He is still in the scum lean section of my reads list. I think he has some much townier posts today, but his D1 looks really bad actually.
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Seprix will probably wait until later.
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Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
In what world am I scum with seprix?
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Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
In what world am I scum with seprix?
You weren't on my conspiracy team. You were independently scummy.
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Gkrieg's reads:
People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch
And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e
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Gkrieg's reads:
People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch
And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e
Not really. I have Teproc and iguana as town reads. I think it would be pretty easy to get iguana lynched seeing as I can put him at L-1.
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Seprix will probably wait until later.
I was looking forward to that.
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lio
Melisandre
Jan
gkreig
Iguana
e
@fontisian - Talk me through your scum/scum-leans reads.
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Seprix will probably wait until later.
I was looking forward to that.
It might be there before you go to bed. You just have more posts than most people, so I know it will take longer
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Ok now for the Seprix reread to make him happy.
Starts with the misvote on Jan for the Melis reads list.
SAys the reads list looks very contrived.
It's actually kinda strange to me that so many people gave him a hard time for the Jan vote. I don't think he is any more likely to make the mistake as town or as scum.
His whole too scummy to be scum argument seems strange on a new person. I'm not sure why he doesn't just scum read him there. I mean I guess his reads seem townie.
His little scuffle with ADK comes out with this:
Yes, yes, OMGUS post because you voted me, whatever. I said the excuse already, and it's not the reason.
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
It feels like you're trying and looking hard for some good reason to curtail what I'm doing. Why are you so worried about people getting pressured? What if the people putting the pressure on are scumhunting? And what if the people calling for that to stop are scum...?
Seriously, this 'reason' for me being scum just feels like you're trying to find some justification to vote for me.
This actually seems like a good case on ADK from Seprix.
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
This is a very scummy stance on Melis at this point. This leaves him with the option to switch onto the Melis wagon if one starts to form, but then go back and say that he wasn't scum.
Not buying it.
Not buying the liopoil case either.
I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.
This post is his first defense of lio.
Also says he doesn't like the Jan case.
votes ss to help consolidate onto a person to get their wagon higher.
I agree with this plan. Here, I'll help:
vote: SS
Why is silverspawn scum? (http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/185/5/d/rushing_dash_by_raidho36-d3kzvuy.gif)
I am not sure this near-deadline vote is doing anything :-\
I don't want to vote Jan now for at least a day, purely based on the fact that I haven't played with him before. I don't like the liopoil case, and everyone but me thinks ADK is town. Well, I have no choice really but to vote SS, who has been consistently scum in every game I've been in so far lately.
This is an extremely scummy post. His defense of Jan is very weak, which is an awful reason to not vote for someone. And his reason for voting ss is equally as bad.
keeps defending lio and Jan without any good reasons.
votes for e after no one follows him onto ss.
makes a case on e (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605237#msg605237)
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605298#msg605298) just makes my conspiracy theory more likely.
So Lio is at L-1? If so, I won't hammer.
Especially with this post.
votes for Hydrad
puts lio at L-1
then unvotes
votes for liopoil again after he says he won't claim.
UNVOTE
PPE: ...I hope to god that wasn't the hammer...
but then has this post.
votes e then starts the votes on Awaclus
Then his reaction is that Awaclus wasn't there so he must be scum. Pretty null tell reaction.
his setup posts are a little strange
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
vote: Teproc
Let's start here.
This case is just complete garbage.
he has this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606640#msg606640) where he asks e a bunch of questions that is townie.
town reads ss.
votes iguana after ss puts the first case on him.
@Seprix - can you explain your scum-read of Teproc. He was in my D1 comfortable pile.
My case on Teproc has dissolved, and taking out all of the WIFOMs I had, it all highly depends on liopoil's alignment. If lio flips as town, Teproc looks bad. If he flips scum, Teproc is probably town.
Says this stuff about Teproc.
He gets really excited about the iguana lynch for some reason.
he also wants to go for lio again.
Conclusion
Overall a lot of his posts are pretty empty. He has a lot of comments on what is going on, but only has reads on a subset of the players. He hasn't really said anything about many of the people, and doesn't really seem like he is scumhunting. He has some townie posts, so he isn't my top choice for the lynch today, and when lio flips scum people will realize my conspiracy theory is completely right.
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Rereading myself, I have played awful. If I get lynched, I won't feel too terrible about getting punished for extremely poor town play.
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I mean, some of the stuff I threw out there was to see reactions, but some of it was just plain stupidity, especially the incredibly-meta read on Melis/Teproc N1 kill.
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Let's try to lynch people for being scum and not for poor town play.
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here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585), he gives a good case on Jan actually. This is a very natural feeling case on someone.
This is interesting to read. I will take all the credit for his post. Why?
Because his natural feeling case is a copy paste of my case on him and i called him out on it, because it was total bullshit and people ignored it.
Here for you to compare, maybe you see it if i put them next to each other. I will go so far and even bold the parts that are identical including grammatical mistakes :
14. 2.71828.....
very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
RR is meta nothing - look again day 3
Meli is seems honest - town
lio - might want to lynch him in the future maybe but i have no idea
fonti/jan - not today
gkrieg - votes on me in rvs, hasn't change. kill with fire.
silverspawn is playing the game
I voted Sprix, but i have no idea what i am doing. but let's kill gkrieg!
hydrad is like RR - look again day 3
Awaclus is - i don't even know not a real read.
ADK is in the game. But we should kill gkrieg!
Haddock is scummy or not or maybe. But i don't have resons. But at least I have words.
Ichi town.
Teproc scum because no reason.
My case/read on him did go on afterwards.
And his natural feeling case on me as reaction to it :
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
nevermind. I actually read Jan's post. Two can play this game:
Jan - very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
1. liopoil - null
2. gkrieg13 - IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town. So......null then
3. fontisian - null
4. silverspawn - talks a lot....doesn't give any reads....kind of feels null/scum?
5. Roadrunner7671 - town
6. Melisandre - town
7. Seprix - town
8. Hydrad - he needs to post more, wouldn't mind lynching
9. Awaclus - null
10. A Drowned Kernel - scum, but not voting because he is V/LA right now
11. J Reggie - town
12. Haddock - town
13. Ichimaru Gin - town?
14. 2.71828..... - scum because his reads list was awful and I am getting to the end of players and I have to find at least one person scummy
15. Jan - let's call myself scum. They don't seem to react negatively to that here.
16. Teproc - town lean
How can you call his post a natural feeling case, when there is evidence that it is not made by him and just a mocking of someone else work.
I have not looked too much at him today. Will most likely start playing again later today or tonight, but .. I could not let this stupidity stand, sorry.
@Gkrieg14 Curious what you think about his post in comparison if it makes it more towny more scummy or null.
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Vote Count 2.3
liopoil (2): gkrieg13, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (6): silverspawn, Seprix, Haddock, fontisian, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (4): liopoil, Melisandre, iguanaiguana, Witherweaver
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time.
Witherweaver has replaced Teproc!
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@gkrieg13, I've been enjoying your re-reads - however, I'm not quite sure your conclusion on Seprix fully fits the analysis you wrote on him:
Conclusion
Overall a lot of his posts are pretty empty. He has a lot of comments on what is going on, but only has reads on a subset of the players. He hasn't really said anything about many of the people, and doesn't really seem like he is scumhunting. He has some townie posts, so he isn't my top choice for the lynch today, and when lio flips scum people will realize my conspiracy theory is completely right.
You wrote (about Seprix):
"This is a very scummy stance"
"This is an extremely scummy post"
"his setup posts are a little strange"
"This case is just complete garbage."
I feel like your scum-feels for him should be stronger...(?)
Do you think Seprix can be scum if liopoil flips town?
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Witherweaver has replaced Teproc!
Oh great, by J Reggie's logic, we can just lynch me, then lynch him, and the game will be half won ^^
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Good news everyone! Teproc was town.
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I haven't read too much. Initial thoughts, but bear in mind these are from skimming along and not reading too much:
Not too thrilled about Gkrieg's rereads. Seemed like a lot of confirmation bias. Something felt off with one of them, but I'd have to go back and look.
Not really thrilled about Iguana's reaction to his quickwagon. I expect more indignation. Though he was apparently away for a lot of it, so there's that. Also, Iguana's initial thing (assigning townslips) was bad in and of itself.
That being said, the wagon itself seems pretty poor. Whatever Silver said was weird. Someone had a really scummy jump on the wagon.. I noted it in the speccy.. looks like it was JReg.
I think that's all I have for now.
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I mean, some of the stuff I threw out there was to see reactions, but some of it was just plain stupidity, especially the incredibly-meta read on Melis/Teproc N1 kill.
I died?
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@gkrieg13, I've been enjoying your re-reads - however, I'm not quite sure your conclusion on Seprix fully fits the analysis you wrote on him:
Conclusion
Overall a lot of his posts are pretty empty. He has a lot of comments on what is going on, but only has reads on a subset of the players. He hasn't really said anything about many of the people, and doesn't really seem like he is scumhunting. He has some townie posts, so he isn't my top choice for the lynch today, and when lio flips scum people will realize my conspiracy theory is completely right.
You wrote (about Seprix):
"This is a very scummy stance"
"This is an extremely scummy post"
"his setup posts are a little strange"
"This case is just complete garbage."
I feel like your scum-feels for him should be stronger...(?)
Do you think Seprix can be scum if liopoil flips town?
Yes I do. I was actually just surprised that he had some townie stuff thrown in with the scummy stuff that I had forgotten. It made it so it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, his scummy posts are extremely scummy, and I still think he is scum, I'm just not as sure as I was.
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here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585), he gives a good case on Jan actually. This is a very natural feeling case on someone.
This is interesting to read. I will take all the credit for his post. Why?
Because his natural feeling case is a copy paste of my case on him and i called him out on it, because it was total bullshit and people ignored it.
Here for you to compare, maybe you see it if i put them next to each other. I will go so far and even bold the parts that are identical including grammatical mistakes :
14. 2.71828.....
very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
RR is meta nothing - look again day 3
Meli is seems honest - town
lio - might want to lynch him in the future maybe but i have no idea
fonti/jan - not today
gkrieg - votes on me in rvs, hasn't change. kill with fire.
silverspawn is playing the game
I voted Sprix, but i have no idea what i am doing. but let's kill gkrieg!
hydrad is like RR - look again day 3
Awaclus is - i don't even know not a real read.
ADK is in the game. But we should kill gkrieg!
Haddock is scummy or not or maybe. But i don't have resons. But at least I have words.
Ichi town.
Teproc scum because no reason.
My case/read on him did go on afterwards.
And his natural feeling case on me as reaction to it :
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
nevermind. I actually read Jan's post. Two can play this game:
Jan - very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
1. liopoil - null
2. gkrieg13 - IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town. So......null then
3. fontisian - null
4. silverspawn - talks a lot....doesn't give any reads....kind of feels null/scum?
5. Roadrunner7671 - town
6. Melisandre - town
7. Seprix - town
8. Hydrad - he needs to post more, wouldn't mind lynching
9. Awaclus - null
10. A Drowned Kernel - scum, but not voting because he is V/LA right now
11. J Reggie - town
12. Haddock - town
13. Ichimaru Gin - town?
14. 2.71828..... - scum because his reads list was awful and I am getting to the end of players and I have to find at least one person scummy
15. Jan - let's call myself scum. They don't seem to react negatively to that here.
16. Teproc - town lean
How can you call his post a natural feeling case, when there is evidence that it is not made by him and just a mocking of someone else work.
I have not looked too much at him today. Will most likely start playing again later today or tonight, but .. I could not let this stupidity stand, sorry.
@Gkrieg14 Curious what you think about his post in comparison if it makes it more towny more scummy or null.
Woah ya I didn't realize that. E can be jokey like that as either alignment, so I guess it's pretty null. The reads list itself is fairly townie though. The non-copied part. I'll have to think more about the copied part, but right now I don't think it is more likely by one alignment over the other
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here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585), he gives a good case on Jan actually. This is a very natural feeling case on someone.
This is interesting to read. I will take all the credit for his post. Why?
Because his natural feeling case is a copy paste of my case on him and i called him out on it, because it was total bullshit and people ignored it.
Here for you to compare, maybe you see it if i put them next to each other. I will go so far and even bold the parts that are identical including grammatical mistakes :
14. 2.71828.....
very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
RR is meta nothing - look again day 3
Meli is seems honest - town
lio - might want to lynch him in the future maybe but i have no idea
fonti/jan - not today
gkrieg - votes on me in rvs, hasn't change. kill with fire.
silverspawn is playing the game
I voted Sprix, but i have no idea what i am doing. but let's kill gkrieg!
hydrad is like RR - look again day 3
Awaclus is - i don't even know not a real read.
ADK is in the game. But we should kill gkrieg!
Haddock is scummy or not or maybe. But i don't have resons. But at least I have words.
Ichi town.
Teproc scum because no reason.
My case/read on him did go on afterwards.
And his natural feeling case on me as reaction to it :
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
nevermind. I actually read Jan's post. Two can play this game:
Jan - very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
1. liopoil - null
2. gkrieg13 - IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town. So......null then
3. fontisian - null
4. silverspawn - talks a lot....doesn't give any reads....kind of feels null/scum?
5. Roadrunner7671 - town
6. Melisandre - town
7. Seprix - town
8. Hydrad - he needs to post more, wouldn't mind lynching
9. Awaclus - null
10. A Drowned Kernel - scum, but not voting because he is V/LA right now
11. J Reggie - town
12. Haddock - town
13. Ichimaru Gin - town?
14. 2.71828..... - scum because his reads list was awful and I am getting to the end of players and I have to find at least one person scummy
15. Jan - let's call myself scum. They don't seem to react negatively to that here.
16. Teproc - town lean
How can you call his post a natural feeling case, when there is evidence that it is not made by him and just a mocking of someone else work.
I have not looked too much at him today. Will most likely start playing again later today or tonight, but .. I could not let this stupidity stand, sorry.
@Gkrieg14 Curious what you think about his post in comparison if it makes it more towny more scummy or null.
Woah ya I didn't realize that. E can be jokey like that as either alignment, so I guess it's pretty null. The reads list itself is fairly townie though. The non-copied part. I'll have to think more about the copied part, but right now I don't think it is more likely by one alignment over the other
Oh wait now I get this whole post. He is summarizing your reads after you summarized his. Hmmmmm. That changes a lot of things. I also feel dumb for not realizing that was what was happening. I think this post goes from townie to null/scummy. There is some OMGUS in there
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Why does this realization make you think his post is scummy?
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Why does this realization make you think his post is scummy?
It just seems a little out of place for e. I also thought it was his own reads list.
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e was parodying Jan. I don't think that's scummy.
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Witherweaver has replaced Teproc!
Oh great, by J Reggie's logic, we can just lynch me, then lynch him, and the game will be half won ^^
Well, the difference was that Teproc was prodded and Hydrad wasn't. But actually I'll unvote because your responses have been towny.
Also, I'm super excited to play with WW now!
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Witherweaver has replaced Teproc!
Oh great, by J Reggie's logic, we can just lynch me, then lynch him, and the game will be half won ^^
Well, the difference was that Teproc was prodded and Hydrad wasn't. But actually I'll unvote because your responses have been towny.
Also, I'm super excited to play with WW now!
I'm glad.
Vote: J Reggie
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Witherweaver has replaced Teproc!
Oh great, by J Reggie's logic, we can just lynch me, then lynch him, and the game will be half won ^^
Well, the difference was that Teproc was prodded and Hydrad wasn't. But actually I'll unvote because your responses have been towny.
Also, I'm super excited to play with WW now!
I'm glad.
Vote: J Reggie
Is this serious or rvs?
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Votes are serious business.
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e had to be joking with that Jan read. Is that something he normally does? That is really weird to me.
I'll take requests for a random reread of someone.
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e had to be joking with that Jan read. Is that something he normally does? That is really weird to me.
I'll take requests for a random reread of someone.
ADK!
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e had to be joking with that Jan read. Is that something he normally does? That is really weird to me.
I'll take requests for a random reread of someone.
ADK!
Alrightie.
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I wouldn't say that Jan read was joking. I would say it was more, well, almost a satire of his post pointing out how ridiculous his read on me was based on the post he just made.
I was trying to be clever and I guess some people missed out on that.
The scum read, however, was not fabricated. I think scum is more likely to accuse someone as scum for a collection of null reads (as mine were characterized as) than town. At least at that point of D1.
My scum read on Jan has mellowed somewhat since then, but I am grateful for the opportunity to explain my post, which makes it funny
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While reading over the conversation with e - some small things I am curious about :
Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
Yeah this is most likely the worst scum list i have seen all game. Not talking about me, but like .. You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
Just look at their post. They are just better. Sure there could be a scum between them. But that would be the hard scum to find, ebcause they are playing fairly well.
Hydrad is just a cop out. could be scum could be town, has no content.
I am split between you and "Number two", but he hardclaimed with his reaction while you might be just wrong on everything as town.
You continue to blatantly misrepresent. This was not a reads list. It was not intended to be persuasive. It was not even a list of people I find scummy. It was "Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool", and indeed this is exactly what I said.
Can you tell me what the point was of making a day 1 lynchpool list at the time?
If it is not representing your reads at the time ("not a reads list"), what exactly was it supposed to be?
Why did you have those people on your list at the time?
For me to make a list like that there are 2 reasons :
1. i think those are people that are scummy and if they are town i would not miss them
2. i think everyone else is towny or really useful even if they are scum, so those people are my lynchpool via PoE.
You seemed to have another reason for it. with all the e drama i had no time to ask you back then, why did you put those people on your day 1 lynchpool?
Aaannd a second one for liopoil, cutting down the quote to make it a little smaller:
The most OMGUS post of all time. If you read his post carefully, you'd realize that he is not actually summarizing your reads, but mocking the way you misrepresent his own reads in your summary. In noticing that he is misrepresenting you, you accidentally implicitly admit to misrepresenting him. And his original reads list was high quality.
e's flip-flop screams completely genuine to me, and I think others will agree. What you accuse e of you yourself commit at least as much.
I doubt we will find a better lynch than Jan today.
Could you do me the favor and tell me what about/why you thought that e's initial readslist was "high quality"?
And while you are at it could you explain to me the sentence before that?
It does not make any sense in my head. I legit don't get the part where you say me acknowledging his post as what it is implies me admitting to something i didn't do.
You could say that my parody of his readslist was slightly over the top, which is the point of a parody in most cases. But the point at its core stands and stood. His list was of the lowest quality imaginable at the time, because it was the facade of information, while not bringing forth anything new. (or not a lot new considering the amount of words he used).
Going full circle - why was his list "high quality" to you?
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ADK first votes me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603234#msg603234) for “repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS”. He also posts an RVS comment right before with Melisandre’s Awaclus vote, so it’s a little silly. To keep this in context, the vote on Awaclus is Melisandre's awful awful beginning reads list that means absolutely nothing, but I already fought with Melisandre about this, you know all about that already.
ADK then pleads that RR vote for me, defends Melisandre's 'LAMIST' post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603240#msg603240) in a bad way. Seriously. Read his explanation. I don't like it at all. However, he defends his reasoning in this way (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603246#msg603246) later on when replying to SS. They can't all be the best explanation ever, but this is a solid one if Melis's reads were legitimate. However, they were absolutely not (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603250#msg603250), so the explanation doesn't hold up after all. ADK doesn't even backtrack on his comments on this when Melis reveals this.
When my wagon is getting nowhere, he jumps aboard Teproc (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603242#msg603242) for stating ADK was obviously town. Not sure what to think of this.
This is interesting. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603253#msg603253) ADK firstly claims that my vote on him for contrived reads was obvious, and because of this, it was a bad vote. Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it is a bad vote. ADK honestly feels like he is stifling the discussion right now. In addition, he says he is still voting for me, when he is actually voting for Teproc. I don't know how useful that is, but there you go.
But wait, there's more. ADK then admits (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603255#msg603255) that he thought the Melis reads were real, but thinks the Awaclus vote was fake, which then proves beyond a doubt his comments on it were RVS, but he still attacks me on pulling people out of RVS. It's just very odd to me. I don't know.
ADK spats with Teproc a little about metas and not liking it when people townread him. Well, I scum read ADK and he didn't like it, but ADK is just skeptical in general, which is a good stance to take. I'm okay with it. Anyways, ADK ends his argument with Teproc and says he'll keep his vote there.
Oooh, this is bad (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603289#msg603289). This is very bad. Melisandre asks ADK what reads he agrees with on his initial reads list (the bad one), which is a bad question in itself, and then ADK says that he didn't even take the reads list all that seriously, but he still claims that I did wrong. Well, it wasn't wrong enough to vote for me instead of Teproc. It feels like ADK is keeping his options open.
Wow, the interaction just got worse (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603305#msg603305). ADK liked the vote on Awaclus, but he already said he knew it was RVS. Well, that's a little useless and a completely empty post. In ADK's defense, Melisandre's post was completely devoid of any content in the first place, but ADK feels the need that he has to defend his stance on early reads being scum despite knowing it was pretty useless anyways. Man, oh man.
We finally get to the post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603370#msg603370) where I build a case on ADK (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603398#msg603398). It's a good one, I think. I like it even more, now that I'm rereading ADK. His early play was terrible.
Then, ADK sidesteps and deflects (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603403#msg603403). He has been against me the entire game, and then whines about not even voting for me, despite that not so long ago, he firstly voted for me, then even when switching to Teproc, he continues to harp on my 'poor play'. See what I mean when I say it feels like he is keeping his options open?
His response to my calling this out is even more excuse driven keeping options open (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603407#msg603407)! Wow, he suddenly forms a town read on me, like that's going to placate me. Didn't ADK say before that having a town read on someone flat out is scummy? For a skeptical player, ADK seems to be bowing out of this fight and hoping it all blows over. I don't like it at all.
And now ADK has had time to think (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603472#msg603472), and has settled into an acceptable position. He was nervous, but he's had time to think, and now he has his alibi. He won't be playing half as badly now.
From here on out, ADK plays a much more solid game, happy to have his early case on him ignored. He never mentions all of that ever again. He lists recent games he played, which is somehow a town-tell even though it really isn't, he votes for Hydrad because he isn't active (which is another bad vote, voting for inactivity D1 isn't all that great), he votes for liopoil and jumps on the wagon (along with IG notably), posts a solid reads list.
He votes liopoil again despite not moving his lynch, which I can only assume is for extra pressure. He then instantly jumps on e. Then liopoil again. Oh, it's that panic town end of D1 moment. Then ADK starts the Awaclus lynch, simply because he is pissed at him.
Next day, he votes SS right out of the gate for no real reason given. Then votes Iguana for no real reason given right after. Then he says he voted for Hydrad, and then has never posted since then.
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Well, since there's nothing better to do, vote: ADK
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Yeah, screw it, vote: ADK. I talked myself into voting him again.
PPE:
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I'll reread someone else shortly.
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
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Not really thrilled about Iguana's reaction to his quickwagon. I expect more indignation.
Clearly you didn't catch on to the seething rage that was undermining literally every sentence I wrote.
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
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I wouldn't say that Jan read was joking. I would say it was more, well, almost a satire of his post pointing out how ridiculous his read on me was based on the post he just made.
I was trying to be clever and I guess some people missed out on that.
The scum read, however, was not fabricated. I think scum is more likely to accuse someone as scum for a collection of null reads (as mine were characterized as) than town. At least at that point of D1.
My scum read on Jan has mellowed somewhat since then, but I am grateful for the opportunity to explain my post, which makes it funny
I am not sure if you got the point of what i was saying.
Being null on someone (early on) is okay. You are allowed to be unsure or have no read.
But you gave reads on the whole game without actually giving reads on any/most of them.
Your post was an empty flood of words for the most part, which you then called "a lot", which was a fancy frame for a boring post in my book.
2.71828.....
very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either loose meta jibs or just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything.
I will color in his scumread on gkrieg as well just because he repeated it several times.
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.[/color]
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
So what is left afterwards is you repeating a scumread on gkrieg and a townread on melisandre.
And the loose lio might get lynched for his playstyle not for being scummy. Which might be a meta thing as well, not sure.
The point is that you talked about rereading the game, but the game itself didn't seem to influence your reads that much, because you didn't mention a lot of things that had happened.
You being null after reading the game is ok. you not talking about the game after stating you had read it was weird.
Most of your post could have been made by a random member of this forum without reading the thread. (Because they have the meta information on players that they can just talk about)
You did not go in depth on anything, which is something i would expect of a player making a reread and stating that there was "a lot there".
Oh also what was the teproc thing at the end? you quoted me talking about the mod. Why does that make teproc scummy?
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
Well Teproc is a smart guy. But it has little to do with ADK, much like Seprix's post itself.
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
Well Teproc is a smart guy. But it has little to do with ADK, much like Seprix's post itself.
My entire post is about ADK. What are you talking about?
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
Well Teproc is a smart guy. But it has little to do with ADK, much like Seprix's post itself.
I would say the post has a lot of confirmation bias and omgus in it. Not sure if it is on purpose or just a man in a tunnel with noone around to show him some light.
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
Well Teproc is a smart guy. But it has little to do with ADK, much like Seprix's post itself.
My entire post is about ADK. What are you talking about?
Not really. It's a recollection of things done, with a lot of insistence that said things were 'bad'. What the things were (and, by extension, who did those things) does not seem extremely correlated with the judgement of 'bad'. Meaning you could have picked anyone, linked some posts they made, and had identical conclusions about that person.
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That seems like a very forced "need to make things sound scummy" read.
Well, you and Teproc sure do think alike! He's been defending ADK all game.
Well Teproc is a smart guy. But it has little to do with ADK, much like Seprix's post itself.
I would say the post has a lot of confirmation bias and omgus in it. Not sure if it is on purpose or just a man in a tunnel with noone around to show him some light.
If only we had someone here to protect us from the night, which is dark, and full of terrors.
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Not really. It's a recollection of things done, with a lot of insistence that said things were 'bad'. What the things were (and, by extension, who did those things) does not seem extremely correlated with the judgement of 'bad'. Meaning you could have picked anyone, linked some posts they made, and had identical conclusions about that person.
It's a read. What on earth do you want, some objective standpoint? Nothing is objective, especially in mafia.
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@Jan I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot when I say this.
Meta is not a dirty thing. It is not a lazy thing. It is not an inferior thing.
Using it as a dirty word is just so... stupid. Ignoring meta should be a dirty word, only it's not a word at all, because that means willingly disregarding relevant information. So if you go through e's post and color everything that's meta related and then conclude that his reads list is bad that makes zero sense.
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Not really. It's a recollection of things done, with a lot of insistence that said things were 'bad'. What the things were (and, by extension, who did those things) does not seem extremely correlated with the judgement of 'bad'. Meaning you could have picked anyone, linked some posts they made, and had identical conclusions about that person.
It's a read. What on earth do you want, some objective standpoint? Nothing is objective, especially in mafia.
probability is, even in mafia
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@Jan I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot when I say this.
Meta is not a dirty thing. It is not a lazy thing. It is not an inferior thing.
Using it as a dirty word is just so... stupid. Ignoring meta should be a dirty word, only it's not a word at all, because that means willingly disregarding relevant information. So if you go through e's post and color everything that's meta related and then conclude that his reads list is bad that makes zero sense.
I don't disagree with you, but reducing your play to empty meta phrases is a cop out that is the easiest way for scum to take.
Meta is a crutch and as such it is useful as a help in your gameplay, but reducing your play to meta only is almost always not the way to solve a game.
I didn't use it as a dirty word. I said there was nothing beyond it.
A good metaread gives you information on the person. It is not .. Well according to meta - nothing.
I will paste the meta parts i marked again just for you, because it seems like you are a special care child today :
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum).
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum.
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to.
Meta is a good and precious thing. But he does not actually give a reasonable read with most of his meta statements (which is not what meta reads are for)
I am fine with him saying RR and hydrad are self resolving reads on d3 onward because they just crumble as scum.
The Awaclus thing has 0 information in it. He reads a playstyle (and as such gives non alignment meta information) without reading anything beyond it.
The seprix thing is him saying that he can't read seprix because he reads his playstyle scummy. which is also meta with 0 information.
The ADK read is - what?
ADK is well in his meta range, no information. The second part does not make any sense. I would assume that he wanted to say scum and not town because that is the only way he can fit the gkrieg part in there.
Haddock omgus reads him, when he calls him scum. Also no information.
A useful meta read on someone has some sort of information about that persons alignment in it.
"X is scum because he posts too much/not enough fluff which is a scumtell for him/her."
Something like that would be a useful meta read on someone else, those reads were not for the most part.
You saying his reads were good because meta is as bad as me saying his reads are bad because meta. Go in depth and look what his reads actually are and in this case they are mostly hot air with a slight odour of rotten eggs.
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Not really. It's a recollection of things done, with a lot of insistence that said things were 'bad'. What the things were (and, by extension, who did those things) does not seem extremely correlated with the judgement of 'bad'. Meaning you could have picked anyone, linked some posts they made, and had identical conclusions about that person.
It's a read. What on earth do you want, some objective standpoint? Nothing is objective, especially in mafia.
probability is, even in mafia
Closed set up. We have very limited information to work with.
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Not really. It's a recollection of things done, with a lot of insistence that said things were 'bad'. What the things were (and, by extension, who did those things) does not seem extremely correlated with the judgement of 'bad'. Meaning you could have picked anyone, linked some posts they made, and had identical conclusions about that person.
It's a read. What on earth do you want, some objective standpoint? Nothing is objective, especially in mafia.
probability is, even in mafia
Closed set up. We have very limited information to work with.
And yet those resourceful among us still scavenge for opportunities to be annoying.
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Whatever, let me know when something real happens here.
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Whatever, let me know when something real happens here.
What games have you been scum in?
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Whatever, let me know when something real happens here.
What games have you been scum in?
It might have been Adventures mafia ages ago. I was scum in one game, it might have been that one.
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Whatever, let me know when something real happens here.
What games have you been scum in?
It might have been Adventures mafia ages ago. I was scum in one game, it might have been that one.
It wasn't that one.
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It wasn't that one.
I don't know which one it was, then. It was forever ago, and I've been playing differently than I have then. Not to discredit that game or anything.
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Closed set up. We have very limited information to work with.
Yeah, I didn't mean this game. I was just debating your statement in general.
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While reading over the conversation with e - some small things I am curious about :
Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
Yeah this is most likely the worst scum list i have seen all game. Not talking about me, but like .. You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
Just look at their post. They are just better. Sure there could be a scum between them. But that would be the hard scum to find, ebcause they are playing fairly well.
Hydrad is just a cop out. could be scum could be town, has no content.
I am split between you and "Number two", but he hardclaimed with his reaction while you might be just wrong on everything as town.
You continue to blatantly misrepresent. This was not a reads list. It was not intended to be persuasive. It was not even a list of people I find scummy. It was "Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool", and indeed this is exactly what I said.
Can you tell me what the point was of making a day 1 lynchpool list at the time?
If it is not representing your reads at the time ("not a reads list"), what exactly was it supposed to be?
Why did you have those people on your list at the time?
For me to make a list like that there are 2 reasons :
1. i think those are people that are scummy and if they are town i would not miss them
2. i think everyone else is towny or really useful even if they are scum, so those people are my lynchpool via PoE.
You seemed to have another reason for it. with all the e drama i had no time to ask you back then, why did you put those people on your day 1 lynchpool?
Aaannd a second one for liopoil, cutting down the quote to make it a little smaller:
The most OMGUS post of all time. If you read his post carefully, you'd realize that he is not actually summarizing your reads, but mocking the way you misrepresent his own reads in your summary. In noticing that he is misrepresenting you, you accidentally implicitly admit to misrepresenting him. And his original reads list was high quality.
e's flip-flop screams completely genuine to me, and I think others will agree. What you accuse e of you yourself commit at least as much.
I doubt we will find a better lynch than Jan today.
Could you do me the favor and tell me what about/why you thought that e's initial readslist was "high quality"?
And while you are at it could you explain to me the sentence before that?
It does not make any sense in my head. I legit don't get the part where you say me acknowledging his post as what it is implies me admitting to something i didn't do.
You could say that my parody of his readslist was slightly over the top, which is the point of a parody in most cases. But the point at its core stands and stood. His list was of the lowest quality imaginable at the time, because it was the facade of information, while not bringing forth anything new. (or not a lot new considering the amount of words he used).
Going full circle - why was his list "high quality" to you?
Okay it was mostly for my own benefit - hmm these are the people who could be good lynches today, I'll read their posts more carefully. I posted it in case anyone was interested. I don't seem to have much of a filter this game. I believe I explained why those people were in the list multiple times.
e's list I thought had plenty of content and I agreed with most of it. High quality. Not sure what else you want to know. The sentence before that is pretty much gibberish, so you can go ahead and ignore.
Mostly your parody didn't make sense. You can call it over the top, but it seemed to barely relate to what e said at all.
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Closed set up. We have very limited information to work with.
Yeah, I didn't mean this game. I was just debating your statement in general.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I said subjectivity is the only thing possible, I meant for this game as well. But yes, Probabilities are actual facts, albeit not reliable ones.
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lio
Melisandre
Jan
gkreig
Iguana
e
@fontisian - Talk me through your scum/scum-leans reads.
Bump.
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e's list I thought had plenty of content and I agreed with most of it. High quality. Not sure what else you want to know.
I talked again about said list a few posts ago because of a slight disagreement. Could you go into detail what you liked/agreed with?
I am trying to get a grasp on your play and part of that is understanding what you see as good/high quality and what not.
Mainly because I seem to disagree with a lot of the things you are saying and I am unsure if that is a difference in playstyle or something else.
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e's list I thought had plenty of content and I agreed with most of it. High quality. Not sure what else you want to know.
I talked again about said list a few posts ago because of a slight disagreement. Could you go into detail what you liked/agreed with?
I am trying to get a grasp on your play and part of that is understanding what you see as good/high quality and what not.
Mainly because I seem to disagree with a lot of the things you are saying and I am unsure if that is a difference in playstyle or something else.
That is what you liked/agreed with in the initial list. not my argument with silver about the list.
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Hey, so my Internet provider is out in my area. Operation Find Nets has also failed. So I'm phone posting.
Melisandre: e's push on Jan felt fake. Iguana stuff has been explained. The nulls are people I don't townread. I don't know how to read you and the way you emphasize parts of your posts is wrecking my tone reads. Jan dropped when he didn't do anything today. His reads are nice though. Lio dropped when content was increasingly awkward and lacked a scum hunting mindset. Gkrieg read thoughs, while requiring a lot of effort, seem easy to fake and I don't like a lot of his conclusions.
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I mean, some of the stuff I threw out there was to see reactions, but some of it was just plain stupidity, especially the incredibly-meta read on Melis/Teproc N1 kill.
I died?
God, I want this to be a townslip.
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Jan, do you still want to lynch e today? I'd be interested. If not, who do you want to lynch?
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Oh yeah, Iguanaiguana was Hydrad. So I'd be more open to an iguana lynch.
OTOH, ADK isn't terrible either.
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Oh yeah, Iguanaiguana was Hydrad. So I'd be more open to an iguana lynch.
OTOH, ADK isn't terrible either.
You were defending hydrad yesterday.
Fine Jan, I'll go find the reads list again. Pretty sure it's just playstyle though.
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Oh yeah, Iguanaiguana was Hydrad. So I'd be more open to an iguana lynch.
OTOH, ADK isn't terrible either.
You were defending hydrad yesterday.
Fine Jan, I'll go find the reads list again. Pretty sure it's just playstyle though.
I was defending because I wanted your lynch. But when Awaclus flipped town, scum must've helped pivot the lynch off you or Hydrad and onto Awaclus.
I don't think you're scum anymore, so that leaves my boy Iguanaiguana.
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There's talk of an e lynch. I guess I'd better not reread e, since I'm so obviously biased.
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since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
He doesn't mention ADK, despite ADK starting the Awaclus thing. He does mention me though, and ends up voting for me. Scum team could be ADK/e/someone else. Hmmm.
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Jan, do you still want to lynch e today? I'd be interested. If not, who do you want to lynch?
I am trying to finalize my opinion on e and liopoil at the moment.
Outside of those two silver is still in my pool of suspects (i am still curious why you think he is town).
Reggie is doing all he can to work himself into that list as well.
Roadrunner, Melisandre, Teproc-slot, Gkrieg are people i dont think i would to lynch. Haddock would be the lowest of the townreads, don't remember a lot he has done today.
Hydraslot / adk / seprix .. if someone makes a really good case maybe, but i havent seen anything convincing yet.
Not sure if there is someone i have not mentioned yet.
for now i will take a nap. let me know in skype when your internet is stable again.
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Jan, do you still want to lynch e today? I'd be interested. If not, who do you want to lynch?
I am trying to finalize my opinion on e and liopoil at the moment.
Outside of those two silver is still in my pool of suspects (i am still curious why you think he is town).
Reggie is doing all he can to work himself into that list as well.
Roadrunner, Melisandre, Teproc-slot, Gkrieg are people i dont think i would to lynch. Haddock would be the lowest of the townreads, don't remember a lot he has done today.
Hydraslot / adk / seprix .. if someone makes a really good case maybe, but i havent seen anything convincing yet.
Not sure if there is someone i have not mentioned yet.
for now i will take a nap. let me know in skype when your internet is stable again.
Jan, did you read my post on ADK? Do you think it is unusable, or do you think it is acceptable?
Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
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Reggie is doing all he can to work himself into that list as well.
Well what else can I do?
But really I feel like this recent discussion hasn't been useful. But maybe that's just me.
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Reggie is doing all he can to work himself into that list as well.
Well what else can I do?
But really I feel like this recent discussion hasn't been useful. But maybe that's just me.
No, I get you. I don't know really what to do. I reread ADK, nobody liked that. I feel like I can't contribute at all. I don't know what else to do, and we're running out of time. I don't want a repeat of last night.
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Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
Yeah, for all this talk of empty posts I feel like Jan has had a lot of them.
We need more people to vote for ADK.
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Or how about vote: Jan?
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Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
Yeah, for all this talk of empty posts I feel like Jan has had a lot of them.
We need more people to vote for ADK.
ADK is town, but you could join the lio wagon if you would like.
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Jan, did you read my post on ADK? Do you think it is unusable, or do you think it is acceptable?
Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
The point is that those people are not as high on my priority list. If someone makes a convincing case then i might be swayed but as of right now, no.
It is not lazy anti-town. It is the truth.
I read your post on ADK, it read tainted with your opinion. I don't think he did anything that i liked today, but i liked a few things yesterday.
The reason why i want to be sure on liopoil and e is in part because i think gkrieg and adk are the same alignment. if the other two are both town, then gkrieg and ADK might be scum.
As of right now i have trouble thinking the other two are town. But that reread with a bit distance has priority and will happen early tomorrow (after i wake up).
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I read your post on ADK, it read tainted with your opinion.
What is this even supposed to mean? We've been over this. Of course reads have opinions in them. You're painting it like it's such an awful thing and it's really not.
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Vote Count 2.4
liopoil (2): gkrieg13, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (1): Witherweaver
A Drowned Kernel (1): Seprix
Jan (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (3): liopoil, Melisandre, iguanaiguana
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time. That's in 35 hours.
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Jan, did you read my post on ADK? Do you think it is unusable, or do you think it is acceptable?
Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
The point is that those people are not as high on my priority list. If someone makes a convincing case then i might be swayed but as of right now, no.
It is not lazy anti-town. It is the truth.
I read your post on ADK, it read tainted with your opinion. I don't think he did anything that i liked today, but i liked a few things yesterday.
The reason why i want to be sure on liopoil and e is in part because i think gkrieg and adk are the same alignment. if the other two are both town, then gkrieg and ADK might be scum.
As of right now i have trouble thinking the other two are town. But that reread with a bit distance has priority and will happen early tomorrow (after i wake up).
This seems like a very dangerous way to think
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Jan, did you read my post on ADK? Do you think it is unusable, or do you think it is acceptable?
Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
The point is that those people are not as high on my priority list. If someone makes a convincing case then i might be swayed but as of right now, no.
It is not lazy anti-town. It is the truth.
I read your post on ADK, it read tainted with your opinion. I don't think he did anything that i liked today, but i liked a few things yesterday.
The reason why i want to be sure on liopoil and e is in part because i think gkrieg and adk are the same alignment. if the other two are both town, then gkrieg and ADK might be scum.
As of right now i have trouble thinking the other two are town. But that reread with a bit distance has priority and will happen early tomorrow (after i wake up).
vote: Jan
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Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
Yeah, for all this talk of empty posts I feel like Jan has had a lot of them.
We need more people to vote for ADK.
Or how about vote: Jan?
These posts push Reggie townier to me, fwiw. They have a towny feel.
I don't find the cases on ADK or e convincing at all. e is basically null for me at the moment, can never read e, and I stand by my town!Teproc/WW read.
Silver is making a lot of sense, but that's a null tell for him.
I still like lynching either iguana or lio.
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Haddock, you were scum with J Reggie. J Reggie you were scum with Haddock.
Both of you are very good players. If one of you is town, watch the other. If you guys are both scum, we're in trouble.
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I'm a bit lost here. Trying to catch up has been super hard. Right now I want to vote ADK, but feel like that's a pretty uninformed vote and that I need to rethink it. Meanwhile I'm becoming the default lynch and part of it I know is because I haven't had the time to put in the effort to actually analyse this game and form decent reads.
I don't have work tomorrow morning. I am going to give my best efforts then and place a vote.
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When was the last time ADK posted?
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He was always in my lynchpool, I don't recall there ever being much momentum on his wagon.
Wow, over 2 days ago.
Request prod on ADK
Is Hydrad even part of this game still?
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Oh right, Iguana is Hydrad.
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liopoil:
There's a lot going on with liopoil, and some strong emotional reactions. I'm not really used to that from him, but I haven't played in that many games with him. I have a hard time understanding we're he's coming from a lot of the time, and his posts seem to contain a lot of contradictions. The easy explanation is that's because he's scum and his stances are fabricated, but it might be town and approaching the game differently than me.
I am doing some rereading on liopoil right now. (won't spoil you with my opinion just yet) Can someone who knows him better talk to me about the bolded part?
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fuck. burned my hand 30 minutes ago. been cooling it ever since, but as of right now the pain is unbearable whenever i stop cooling for longer than 5 seconds.
only left handed at the moment.
will delay my plans. might go to the hospital if it does not get better within the hour.
will keep you in the loop.
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Everyone yell at Jan to go to the fucking hospital, please.
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back.
upside 4 different painmeds and i get to visit the hospital every morning for a while to change bandages.
downside. cant use my right hand for a little while. i might need to get myself a girlfriend for the duration of this predicament.
anyways. should be able to play. slowly one handed. less input/spammy.
if faust deems my contribution as unworthy then he may decide to sub me out, but i think it is not needed.
unvote
also the reason i took a rather long time to get back into the game is because i was a bit unsure about some of my reads.
in other words, i decided that liopoil is town, which makes me reconsider on several things. and is also the reason i wanted him to explain the e read and/or look at e's list again.
because i want to evaluate if i was wrong on 1 person or two yesterday.
gone for now. have to visit another doctor to get more painkillers.
oh yeah it is a 2nd degree burn of 3 fingers of my right hand just as info for the curious people.
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Request prod on ADK
Prod sent.
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Okay, I guess I will read things. Surprised no one wants to lynch JReggie.
Hydrad:
I have arived!
Why is there like 5 pages of posts already! I missed RVS!
also. Totally forgot that I had signed up for this game I got my message. We will se how this goes.
First thoughts.
Hey we have some championship guys here. Thats pretty neat. This should be a fun game.
Seprix feels like a new person. But I don't think hes played for a while so maybe he just changed a bit? still weird.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Vote: Awaclus for now though.
Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.
One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.
O liopoil had a wagon that sounds like fun.
I'm going to go
Vote: fontisian though.
This is a more serious vote then the awaclus one.
Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
I think this discussion is keeping progress going.
Its interesting to see.
Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.
Wow that was a tough one. Par the course for Hydrad. My generally feeling is a slight inclination that this is him as town. I think he's more likely to say the kind of 'hey I haven't been paying attention I missed stuff!' in his first post as someone that hasn't been chatting in a QT. Yes that's a meta argument, whoever was complaining about that this game.
Then a wild Iguana appears:
Hi everyone, my name is Hydrad. Sorry for lurking. Looks like I have some reading to do.
I'm not going to quote everything he says because there's more than Hydrad. He doesn't show up until Day 2, and Hydrad was gone after early Day 1, so there's little relating to the lynch with this slot.
Says this in his second post:
My gut feeling though is actually to look closest at the players off the Awaclus wagon because I don't think scum wants to participate too heavily in a last minute snap-mislynch like that.
Could be of interest.
Starts reading back, I guess that's what you have to do. Starts saying stuff about Teproc being scum. Man who does this guy think he is? Also:
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
Town on this.
No, that's scummy. Are you playing backwards game? Anyone been voting for Silverspawn? Also, claims scummy on ADK for ADK finding Teproc's instatownread suspicious. That's fair from ADK, though Teproc comes out with strong opinions early. Ends this post with a 'town v. town' statement about Sperix and Melisandre. Generally a scummy thing to say, but he prefaces it by saying that he thought that before he was in the game. Well, way to play preemptive defense.
Continues to think we should move towards ADK, points out ADK started the Awaclus thing. Also says people should look at Teproc. Man, Teproc was good people.
Doubles down on the 'town v. town' on Seprix and Melisandre. Uses it to tunnel ADK. Claims town on RR for flawed reasons. Finds everyone that votes for Seprix scummy. Town on Gkrieg, an implied scum on Lio. Says J Reggie is kind of scummy, heyyo.
Settles on wanting to lynch ADK, but doesn't vote because he hasn't caught up yet. Man, where's your sense of irresponsibility?
I don't really agree with his conclusions thus far (well, Seprix is likely town), though he's read more than I have. I don't really get a scummy feel.. the only thing I don't like is the consistency. Starts with a couple town, a couple scum, and then reads just confirm this.
Continuing, more solidification of scum reads on Teproc and ADK.
Okay, then the townslip thing. Man, that's bad:
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
There's a lot of bad here, really. Calling fontisian's question coaching is a bit of a stretch, in the sense that it's completely garbage. Even if scum had daychat and fontisian and Lio were partners, this post would probably still happen. More likely this is simply fontisian (a) scumhutning or (b) pretending to scumhunt. Jan's response here is pretty empty, like very so. So bad on Jan, bad bad on Iguana.
Moving on, Iguana questions Lio's reads. Well that's good. Talks more about the daychat thing:
I think it's more that Jan's line of thinking here wouldn't actually occur to scum, who know the answers. Therefore the entire line of thinking would need to have been fabricated. That's harder to fake than just saying "Oh, I forgot daychat." (This is something that silverscum actually did in the championship game as scum.
Why would that line of thinking not occur to scum? It's a trivial thing to fake. If anything, Jan even considering daychat makes them more likely to be scum. Town doesn't think about such things. Scum does, because they need to post something and look like they're trying to 'figure stuff out'.
Then Silver says something, votes Iguana, Seprix gets really excited (I just do not see scum behaving this way. Looking at what Silver says.. well, he's right about it not being a townslip. But man, why does he need the weird 'scum has daychat and Iguana is scum and forgot about it' scenario? Overexplained, too. Classic scummy. Would it be scummy if Iguana were scum? Not sure.. less so I think.
[silverspawn's usual bullshit]
okay then, you always scumread me though
+1 for this. Not townie or scummy though. Then a big wagon forms on him, but he's away. This is what initially made me think he was scum when I saw it in the speccy, because it seemed like a 'I'm caught, better keep a low profile and see if it blows over' reaction. Other people seem to think this way too, but Iguana comes back explaining he was at work. Starts responding to the wagon:
I'll do my best to respond to the votes on me one at a time, since everyone is more or less voting me for a different reason.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
The crux of silver's argument revolves around the definitions of scumslip and townslip. When I made my post, I was thinking of a townslip as any line of thought that indicates it is coming from town, and would be difficult for scum to fake. Probably, I should have said it was a strong town-tell, not a slip. silver however believes that I, as scum, believed that daychat was posted in the setup and scumslipped.
1) Most games on this site don't have daychat. Already has been said.
2) Why would I make the mistake of thinking that something is posted in the setup when literally almost nothing is posted in the setup? This setup is completely closed, and we're given two paragraphs of very general information on it.
3) Look at the timestamps. I made the townslip comment #1333 at 2:46PM. Seprix responded with post #1335 at 2:49PM. I responded at #1338 with a clarification of what I meant at 2:54PM. The entire space of the interchange was 8 minutes. This was not me inventing a fake explanation to cover up a mistake; that would have taken me longer. It was me clarifying an idea that was already in my head. I read and responded to Seprix's comment within 5 minutes.
Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy. And now I just got to this:
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?
You say I was thinking "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"
Actually, the line of thinking was:
"Teproc's case looks good in isolation, but in the context it makes Teproc look scummy and Liopoil looks town because Teproc's play has been scummy.
I shared my developing scumread on Teproc here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606575#msg606575) and here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606882#msg606882) I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with, only to come back and make a snap case on Liopoil based on him being self-conscious. I don't know what Teproc has done in the middle of the game, because I wasn't there, but his not being around for the EoD1 looks bad, and continuing to tunnel Liopoil after Liopoil has only made towny contributions to the game since the initial 'case' looks bad too.
I will admit that confirmation bias may have played a role. I hesitated to scumread Liopoil for the awkward comment because I was already scumreading Teproc, and he was making the case.
"Look how consistent I am!"
Summarizes his wagon:
Alright so currently voting for me are:
Seprix - Town. But I always townread Seprix. But Seprix is always town. Dude is grasping at serious straws here looking for scum, willing to believe almost anything. It's super hard to imitate that kind of cluelessness when you have the game solved.
Fontisian - Uhm....a town??? Her reasons for voting me seem pretty legitimate, although I do think some of it is based in misunderstanding my original posts. She's not buying the scumslip thing, which is a ridiculous argument, so that's town points. But really... she's the mafia champion something something, how am I supposed to be able to tell when she's scum?
Haddock - Pretty null. I can believe that Haddock genuinely thinks I'm scum. He usually does.
J Reggie - IDK. Seriously, IDK. Sorry. No clue how to read this guy.
silverscum - I was townreading him, now I'm not so convinced. His argument was just, awful. It's hard for me to believe he genuinely believes it & it really feels like he's just trying to push a mislynch because he's good with words, has a good reputation, and therefore he can get away with it.
ADK - Scum. I've already talked about this read. Also he just jumped on the wagon hardly commenting.
Is anyone else voting for me?
Also, these reads are weak, mainly because I still haven't read the entire game yet ><
Better get working on that...
And we're basically caught up.
I'm a bit lost here. Trying to catch up has been super hard. Right now I want to vote ADK, but feel like that's a pretty uninformed vote and that I need to rethink it. Meanwhile I'm becoming the default lynch and part of it I know is because I haven't had the time to put in the effort to actually analyse this game and form decent reads.
I don't have work tomorrow morning. I am going to give my best efforts then and place a vote.
Seems sincere.
Well, that was fun. If there's a conclusion from this I don't know what it is. Maybe targetted rereads aren't the smartest thing since all the responses are out of context. His reaction to his wagon is not really scummy. Scummiest thing about him is the consistency of his reads. Feels like he came in with an idea and just found things to support that idea as he read.
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back.
upside 4 different painmeds and i get to visit the hospital every morning for a while to change bandages.
downside. cant use my right hand for a little while. i might need to get myself a girlfriend for the duration of this predicament.
anyways. should be able to play. slowly one handed. less input/spammy.
if faust deems my contribution as unworthy then he may decide to sub me out, but i think it is not needed.
unvote
also the reason i took a rather long time to get back into the game is because i was a bit unsure about some of my reads.
in other words, i decided that liopoil is town, which makes me reconsider on several things. and is also the reason i wanted him to explain the e read and/or look at e's list again.
because i want to evaluate if i was wrong on 1 person or two yesterday.
gone for now. have to visit another doctor to get more painkillers.
oh yeah it is a 2nd degree burn of 3 fingers of my right hand just as info for the curious people.
I hope you feel better soon!
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I'll do ADK next, but not immediately.
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WW, do you have a case on me? I'm not sure why you're so sure I'm scum.
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WW, do you have a case on me? I'm not sure why you're so sure I'm scum.
The way you voted for Iguana. The way you unvoted the couple of cases you've been on. A couple of other things that I've come by and seemed scummy out of context.
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It's not like I'm sure, it's just the best thing so far.
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WW, do you have a case on me? I'm not sure why you're so sure I'm scum.
The way you voted for Iguana. The way you unvoted the couple of cases you've been on. A couple of other things that I've come by and seemed scummy out of context.
Ok, hopefully they won't seem scummy in context.
Also, really why do people keep disappearing?
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WW, do you have a case on me? I'm not sure why you're so sure I'm scum.
The way you voted for Iguana. The way you unvoted the couple of cases you've been on. A couple of other things that I've come by and seemed scummy out of context.
Ok, hopefully they won't seem scummy in context.
Also, really why do people keep disappearing?
I think it's more likely in big games.
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Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.
This is a great summary of why I'm having so much trouble finishing this goddamn reread.
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Does anyone have, like, spark notes?
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Does anyone have, like, spark notes?
That's kinda what my rereads are :)
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Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
Here's e's reads post in question, and boy this was way back. Important to remember that in thjs stage in the game I wouldn't trust anyone with strong reads.
RR not a good D1 lynch (This was my view too)
Meli: Yep, same
lio: Very good prediction and indeed I was starting to get this feeling too.
fontisian/Jan okay I agree hard to read (at that point)
gkrieg: This is just a good catch, to keep glrieg accountable for where his vote is
ss: pass
Seprix: I also was wavering on whether it was playstyle or not (the scummy stuff he did). Now K lean town.
Hydrad: Not much more to say here.
Awaclus: Okay this one just says that grass is green
ADK, J Reggie, Ichimaru: ?????
Haddock: Interesting
Teproc: Wait what?
Not quite how I remembered it. Clearly he just included some people for the sake of conpletion, but the players with comments are good. And it would be weird for e to have good comments on everyone. In particular, he made good observations on RR, lio, gkrieg, and Haddock which not many others were saying but I agreed with.
It's also notable that e had made a few more focused rereads RIGHT before your post saying he bad no real content, and these were more fresh in my mind.
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I'll do ADK next, but not immediately.
Probably a good idea. I'd like to see someone else do ADK.
i might need to get myself a girlfriend
Join the club.
in other words, i decided that liopoil is town
Explain your reasoning?
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Oh hey:
Witherweaver: Are you scum?
Sorry, it's just that Teproc still owes me an answer on this one
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Here's my super short, rushed summary of the middle of D1:
No idea why everyone wanted to lynch Jan; didn't you guys see the town slip???
like the votes on e lead by Jan, thinking e could be scum for sure.
Liopoil wtf I don't even... He's so all over the place.
Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.
Ok and near the end here everyone is rushing through short posts near the deadline, no one feels like they have time to think about anything. I still really don't like how ADK starts the Awaclus wagon. So few people had scumread him during the game. It feels like the most insane cop-out ever.
Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e
for now Vote: ADK
Well, that was a mess. Good luck reading 60 pages in 24 hours Witherweaver! It's, uh, not going to be fun.
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Does anyone have, like, spark notes?
That's kinda what my rereads are :)
I'm sure they are not biased at all.
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Does anyone have, like, spark notes?
That's kinda what my rereads are :)
I'm sure they are not biased at all.
Nope! But so are sparknotes ;)
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Oh hey:
Witherweaver: Are you scum?
Sorry, it's just that Teproc still owes me an answer on this one
It turns out I already answered!
Good news everyone! Teproc was town.
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No idea why everyone wanted to lynch Jan; didn't you guys see the town slip???
That was not a townslip.
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Sorry for my absence, I promise I will catch up tonight.
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Sorry for my absence, I promise I will catch up tonight.
In the meantime, you should vote: ADK.
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vote: J Reggie
Opportunist.
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Very Meh. Much lack of approval.
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I think I need to read J Reggie, I haven't been paying much attention to him.
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Vote Count 2.5
liopoil (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, Seprix
A Drowned Kernel (2): iguanaiguana, J Reggie
Not Voting (3): liopoil, Melisandre, Jan
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time. That's in 15 hours.
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I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
I hear a lot about "town vs. town" arguments being scummy, and J Reggie said it here, for what it's worth.
Seprix, I'm agreeing with your case on ADK. It's basically what I was thinking but couldn't put into words. vote: ADK.
And with that I bid you goodnight.
Everyone also hates the ADK case, so J Reggie jumping on it could be seen as bad for some of you, who knows. J Reggie votes for ADK today as well in the end, spoilers.
So my thought process is as follows: I thought ADK looked scummy, then realized I didn't know why I thought that, then Seprix made a case and I agreed with it. And I definitely don't have a hard scum-read on anyone, so I'm going with what I've got and seeing how people react, which is how I play the game.
The opinion poll was partially because I was having trouble forming an opinion on the two others, partially because I thought people weren't talking about them enough for how much they had continued, and also because I'm always surprised by how people read my posts. Apparently people are finding me scummy this game. That's interesting; I guess it's fine. I'm still getting used to all these new people.
I'm currently feeling pretty town on melisandre, but I'm wary of that because we might just be used to different metas.
Also, if anyone has a preference for what pronouns you would like to be referred to by, let me know. I go by he/him/his. I feel like this is a thing we should do when we /in, but that probably won't catch on.
Pretty safe post, but it's not bad by any means. I can give J Reggie some town points for this.
J Reggie is pretty scummy too : his jumping on silver and ADK feels forced, not in a good way.
What is a good way to feel forced? Is that even a thing? And honestly yes, it is a little forced. I kind of have to force reads early with very little information. What happens after that is where the real reads come from.
Hmm. I like what Teproc thinks, I have no idea why I thought he was scum. J Reggie counters with a good point, town points for that.
I think I like where my vote is now. Here's the problem, and maybe this is too deep.
On f.ds, we are very concerned with meta. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. When someone's been playing here for long time, people get an idea of what they're usually like. That player also has an idea of how other people here read them and can use that to their advantage. When someone hasn't been playing here for a long time, they're usually a new player, and that in itself brings certain things that make them easier to read.
Jan is neither of these things. Jan has been playing mafia for a long time but is completely new to f.ds. A lot of the things that Jan is doing right now look really scummy from my perspective, but I'm only used to f.ds mafia. I'm sure that Jan knows better than to do things that are this scummy so obviously, aside from for WIFOM's sake, but I'm not seeing that right now.
It currently looks like a Jan lynch is the best option, but I don't want to make the mistake of lynching someone because they're an outsider. It's almost like we speak a different language, and Jan is saying "here are my honest reads" and I'm hearing "here's a fake reads list". So I'd like to hear what people have to say about this. I'm pretty new so I don't really know if any of this is right or not.
I found this very interesting. Could be Jan/J Reggie scum team, but he repeatedly votes Jan, and I think this is genuine enough to say that both are town or one is scum.
Wow, so we're getting close to the deadline and I still don't have any solid scum reads. I still think Jan is the way to go, but I could be persuaded otherwise. I'm not sure why Teproc is bussing me so hard reads me as scum. Does anyone else?
We don't have plurality lynch do we? This is going to be difficult.
Is J Reggie indecisive in the other game when he was scum? This could easily be scum playing confused town, but it could also be confused town. Man, all of this makes me want to read J Reggie in the other game.
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I'm here! And will be all evening.
I intend to have another look at iguana to see if I still agree with recent!me. lio still looks really scummy and I could go there, but will stay where I am for now since there's no lio wagon to speak of.
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Haven't reread iguana yet, but will do in a minute.
In the meantime, catching up, I realised that @gkrieg, you never did clarify that question you asked me that made no sense. As I understood it to mean, it misrepresented me pretty hard. So yeah I'm not gonna let you pretend you never asked the question. I need you to tell me what you actually meant by it.
I also just saw my Reggie case from ages ago. It's actually not a bad case, for D1!me, anyway.
As it stands, pre-iguana reread, my instinct is:
Would lynch:
iguana, liopoil, maybe Reggie.
Meh, could do I guess:
fontisian, ADK, gkrieg
Wouldn't lynch:
Witherweaver, silver
Probably wouldn't lynch: everyone else
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OK, so iguana does look bad in general, to my mind. That's separate from the apparent scumslip.
There's lots of little things, but just a couple of posts I noticed on reread, which stood out as things I hadn't yet commented on:
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
This is really scummy from my perspective, amplified by the fact that I strongly disagree with his read on Teproc/Witherweaver.
People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....
Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?
Disagreement is not a scumtell. And e is actually looking towny lately, fwiw (in his most most recent posts, anyway, which are not THAT recent).
Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.
...
Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e
for now Vote: ADK
Well, that was a mess. Good luck reading 60 pages in 24 hours Witherweaver! It's, uh, not going to be fun.
He's been nullreading me up to this point. I just think it's wonderfully ironic that he's accusing me of treading water when he's actually had way more posts than me saying "I'm trying to catch up, I promise!" Since I'm town, though, and I have been struggling this game, I can hardly scumread him for such posts. And he's being quite hypocritical by using that as a reason to scumread me.
The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
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The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
That's one of the least convincing arguments not to lynch someone I've ever heard.
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I'll be lurking in-and-out of the end-of-day 2 deadline.
Current wagons
liopoil (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, Seprix
A Drowned Kernel (2): iguanaiguana, J Reggie
Would not lynch today:-
- Seprix (one of the most 'honest' voices in this game, his guilt-free execution of the awaclus wagon gains him town-WIFOM-points). His playstyle demonstrates that he doesn't want to hide this game.
Muddled reads but not interested:-
- 2.71828 (Began the game as obv-scum, but I town-leant on 2.71828's D1 emotional outrage of being scum-read by Jan, and the subsequent OMGUS-parody. I didn't see it as scum-theatre).
- A Drowned Kernel/J Reggie (I'll need to remind myself why I was town-leaning J Reggie and A Drowned Kernel from Day 1) less town-feels today though.
- liopoil (he'll never be night-killed after his trust-me-or-lynch-me counter. I don't see scum selling themselves that short though). Was the main focus of D1 (info for later).
- iguanaiguana (reading now) - the lack of enthusiastic counter wagons is interesting.
For now:
Vote: fontisian - is your play this game purposefully unreadable? I feel like you are holding back...
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The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
That's one of the least convincing arguments not to lynch someone I've ever heard.
I agree. And it's the best reason I can come up with. Hence me, y'know, still voting iguana.
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The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
That's one of the least convincing arguments not to lynch someone I've ever heard.
I agree. And it's the best reason I can come up with. Hence me, y'know, still voting iguana.
Oh, I didn't realize you were. I was about to call you scummy for holding back the vote.
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I'd like to hear something from e, just cos it's been a little while. I realise I can't really talk, it's just frustrating that for the first time I'm actually HERE for a while, the massive amount of activity that seemed to happen when I was busy and elsewhere has evaporated.
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I'd like to hear something from e, just cos it's been a little while. I realise I can't really talk, it's just frustrating that for the first time I'm actually HERE for a while, the massive amount of activity that seemed to happen when I was busy and elsewhere has evaporated.
Hi
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I'd like to hear something from e, just cos it's been a little while. I realise I can't really talk, it's just frustrating that for the first time I'm actually HERE for a while, the massive amount of activity that seemed to happen when I was busy and elsewhere has evaporated.
Hi
Well, that's something at least.
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I'd like to hear something from e, just cos it's been a little while. I realise I can't really talk, it's just frustrating that for the first time I'm actually HERE for a while, the massive amount of activity that seemed to happen when I was busy and elsewhere has evaporated.
Hi
Oh hey, cool! Not to nag, or anything, but, any thoughts? :P
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That sounds incredibly passive-aggressive and wasn't intended as such.
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I'd like to hear something from e, just cos it's been a little while. I realise I can't really talk, it's just frustrating that for the first time I'm actually HERE for a while, the massive amount of activity that seemed to happen when I was busy and elsewhere has evaporated.
Hi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oYfscwjw7s
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Well, grr. The timezones are problem now.
I will get up in time for deadline, but I need to sleep now. I expect any possibly lynch will have to happen without me since so many people will not be up at 5am US time.
I like my vote where it is, so I guess it's all OK. Still, the timing sucks.
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Wow ya definitely won't be awake at 3AM.
vote: JReggie
I don't want an iguana lynch, and I'm the only one on lio.
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WOW that snuck up fast. Will place a vote soon
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I think J Reggie is towny, not sure what the case is really. Sure he sheeps everything but whi cares?
ADK and fontisian are the two people I am considering right now.
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I think J Reggie is towny, not sure what the case is really. Sure he sheeps everything but whi cares?
ADK and fontisian are the two people I am considering right now.
Yeah, there's not that great of a case on me. I'd be fine with either of those lynches. I'm already voting ADK do no need to change.
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I think J Reggie is towny, not sure what the case is really. Sure he sheeps everything but whi cares?
ADK and fontisian are the two people I am considering right now.
I would definitely support the fonti lynch. Not so sure about the ADK lynch
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I think J Reggie is towny, not sure what the case is really. Sure he sheeps everything but whi cares?
ADK and fontisian are the two people I am considering right now.
I would definitely support the fonti lynch. Not so sure about the ADK lynch
And by not so sure, I mean I definitely think he is town and would oppose it. Two games at once is hard sometimes.
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I might stay up for the deadline but do not count on it.
I'll probably just look at the two wagons and place my vote on the scummier person. No need to do a repeat of the Awaclus blunder.
Ppe
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Wow that sounded scummy. Of course pointing out that you sound scummy is supposed to be scummy, but by pointing out that I know it's supposed to be scummy, I'm creating WIFOM, aren't I?
Fun!
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Still think seprix is the best lynch.
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Wow that sounded scummy. Of course pointing out that you sound scummy is supposed to be scummy, but by pointing out that I know it's supposed to be scummy, I'm creating WIFOM, aren't I?
Fun!
hey, same.
let's start with Vote: fontisian, will say more before I leave
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that sudden "let's lynch fontisian" thing seems highly suspect to me. I a) get a town vibe from her posts and b) she's a new player who plays in an odd way on her first game. Who is more likely to adapt their playstyle, town or scum? Well, scum. Obviously.
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I could be swayed by a good case, though. But right now, scummy business.
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Fontisian hasn't played too well, but it feels like a "we can't agree so let's all get on this wagon nobody could object to". It feels like a repeat of Awaclus to me. Lio and Melisandre are both voting for her, and I consider them both to be somewhat/moderately scummy. I don't know, I don't like it.
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
If you think he's town, than that's pretty awful.
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Vote Count 2.6
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (3): Witherweaver, Seprix, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (2): iguanaiguana, J Reggie
fontisian (2): Melisandre, liopoil
Not Voting (1): Jan
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time. That's in 10 hours.
If there is a lynch prior to the deadline, twilight will probably last until the deadline. Because I need to sleep and all that.
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
If you think he's town, than that's pretty awful.
Does it matter what I think? I'd dare to say that out of active players, my reads are the worst. Definitely bottom three.
PPE-Hi Faust
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Unvote
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Vote: ADK
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
If you think he's town, than that's pretty awful.
Does it matter what I think? I'd dare to say that out of active players, my reads are the worst. Definitely bottom three.
PPE-Hi Faust
Yes, it matters what you think. You can only improve as you play.
Vote: ADK
I'd love to hear your case, speaking of.
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
If you think he's town, than that's pretty awful.
Does it matter what I think? I'd dare to say that out of active players, my reads are the worst. Definitely bottom three.
PPE-Hi Faust
Yes, it matters what you think. You can only improve as you play.
Vote: ADK
I'd love to hear your case, speaking of.
You think I have a case? Act now, talk later.
(I'll get you a case)
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Trying to lynch Liopoil after his weird claim thing and then suggesting the Awaclus lynch.
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Thinking about it, fontisian doesn't seem like a good lynch. If we were to lynch and of the new people I'd go for Jan, but I don't think that's happening. I just don't want to get quicklynched.
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Reggie: why did you vote for Seprix at the end of D1?
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I think iguana is trying to say that the fact that Jan had the thought process about day chat at all to be a town. Which, whatever, it's wrong but not terrible.
But he's doing other shit like this:
for now Vote: ADK
"I want to vote an easy target but if ADK comes back and posts another wall, I don't want to be held accountable for my."
In my experience, the "for now" thing is a from scum more than half the time.
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Reggie: why did you vote for Seprix at the end of D1?
Because Seprix's play looked scummy, without taking into about Seprix's alignment in Fruit Ninja. Now I think the two playstyles match up and Seprix is probably town here. It was also the best place to have my vote as I wouldn't be around for the deadline.
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ADK's early D1 is very indicative of town!ADK in my opinion. Look at his reaction to the Seprix vote and case on him. Very townie imo.
He hasn't been around much recently which is unfortunate, but I think his early play speaks for his towniness. I could actually be interested in iguana here. As a sub he wasn't around for the early D1 stuff and is relatively easy to look over in a reread....and ADK is a good target here. Pushing an ADK lynch is something that scum might want to do
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Trying to lynch Liopoil after his weird claim thing and then suggesting the Awaclus lynch.
Okay, so you think ADK is scum because he pushed for a liopoil lynch, then suggesting the Awaclus lynch that ended badly. I have two questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that town!ADK was fed up at Awaclus's play and decided to tunnel Awaclus at the last moment? Rereading that section seems to conclude that, at least for me.
2. Why do you think liopoil is town? Is it because he claimed? Is it not true that all players basically end up claiming when they're on the noose?
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Liopoil didn't claim.
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Reread iguana here and didn't get scum vibes from him. Which probably means he is scum. Because I always push a mislynch on him when he is actually town.
Not enough for me to vote him right now, but I might if we haven't had movement somewhere else later on in the day. And yeah, deadlines late at night...most likely not going to be around.
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Trying to lynch Liopoil after his weird claim thing and then suggesting the Awaclus lynch.
Okay, so you think ADK is scum because he pushed for a liopoil lynch, then suggesting the Awaclus lynch that ended badly. I have two questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that town!ADK was fed up at Awaclus's play and decided to tunnel Awaclus at the last moment? Rereading that section seems to conclude that, at least for me.
2. Why do you think liopoil is town? Is it because he claimed? Is it not true that all players basically end up claiming when they're on the noose?
1. Yes, it's possible.
2. Yes, yes.
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Uh. Wtf deadline? It's in 8 hours. I'll have to wake up... early... uw... fine.
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I won't be here for the deadline.
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I'll be lurking in-and-out of the end-of-day 2 deadline.
Current wagons
liopoil (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, Seprix
A Drowned Kernel (2): iguanaiguana, J Reggie
Would not lynch today:-
- Seprix (one of the most 'honest' voices in this game, his guilt-free execution of the awaclus wagon gains him town-WIFOM-points). His playstyle demonstrates that he doesn't want to hide this game.
Muddled reads but not interested:-
- 2.71828 (Began the game as obv-scum, but I town-leant on 2.71828's D1 emotional outrage of being scum-read by Jan, and the subsequent OMGUS-parody. I didn't see it as scum-theatre).
- A Drowned Kernel/J Reggie (I'll need to remind myself why I was town-leaning J Reggie and A Drowned Kernel from Day 1) less town-feels today though.
- liopoil (he'll never be night-killed after his trust-me-or-lynch-me counter. I don't see scum selling themselves that short though). Was the main focus of D1 (info for later).
- iguanaiguana (reading now) - the lack of enthusiastic counter wagons is interesting.
For now:
Vote: fontisian - is your play this game purposefully unreadable? I feel like you are holding back...
Ah aha haha. God, that timing.
Hey.
Hey, melisandre?
Are you scum?
I think you might be scum, melisandre?
So, what's your problem with the iguana lynch? You haven't examined the cases, that much I'd gathered. It can't be the lack if other wagons you've been talking about, because iguana's wagon got cut in half with almost no effort on his part and everyone's been pushing in every direction. You'd best come up with a good reason if you want to fight this lynch.
Have I been holding back? A bit. So have you. A lack of strong reads comes with so many new faces, especially for someone as meta based as me. I find that the guns blazing approach is also less enjoyable in an unfamiliar environment.
So, here's where I'm at. I've had too many town teads, over the course of the game, for all of them to possibly be real. I've found a likely mafia in iguana. And I want a fucking useful flip. Get on board or get out of the way.
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That goes for the rest of you, too. A lot of us won't be here later. We need the majority on iguana now. (Looking at you e).
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Thinking about it, fontisian doesn't seem like a good lynch. If we were to lynch and of the new people I'd go for Jan, but I don't think that's happening. I just don't want to get quicklynched.
The last sentence is strongly in favor of Reggie. He is being completely honest about his fears.
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That goes for the rest of you, too. A lot of us won't be here later. We need the majority on iguana now. (Looking at you e).
you are right. We at least need to get someone L-1 or something. We haven't had any productive wagons yet today.
vote: iguana
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Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
Nightkill me then.
Haha, yes seprix, almost all players do claim when they're on the noose.
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that sudden "let's lynch fontisian" thing seems highly suspect to me. I a) get a town vibe from her posts and b) she's a new player who plays in an odd way on her first game. Who is more likely to adapt their playstyle, town or scum? Well, scum. Obviously.
Cheers.
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Thank you, e
Three more vote slots available on Iguana. Get me while they're hot.
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Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
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Vote Count 2.e
iguanaiguana (5): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel, 2.7 (L-3)
J Reggie (3): Witherweaver, Seprix, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (3): iguanaiguana, J Reggie, RR
fontisian (2): Melisandre, liopoil
Not Voting (1): Jan
14 alive is 8 to lynch
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time. That's in 10 hours.
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Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
We can always do a mass switch to RR at the end of the day....
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My fontisian read is hard to articulate. I get the feeling she's playing a very easy scum game. Hasn't done anything crazy, no walls of text, and is never alone on a wagon. Nothing to stand our. What's more, her positions are pretty convenient. She sided with me when I was under some early pressure that would predictably fade, and now that I'll be a viable mislynch for the rest of the game she's moved to the scum side. Strange absense from the madness at the end of the day yesterday until she had to force the awaclus (mis)lynch through. She claims that she got the deadline wrong, okay. The ways she deals with disagreements are weird too. They somehow never escalate but she also doesn't concede or anything. I'm on mobile so it's hard to go find exact quotes, but does anyone else get the same vibe?
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Wagon preferences:
fontisian > ADK >>>>> iguana > J Reggie
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Really melisandre summed it up with 'purposefully unreadable'. Also her response to it is odd.
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Mah, it's more like I'm having more and more trouble justifying my townread on you. Doesn't help that my laptop always go to page 15 when I open this game, and the page begins with me defending you.
I don't think you were inevitably living yesterday and I think you're a harder lynch now. People like to confirmation bias. With so many people mafia reading you and then coming around to townread, it's very likely you won't be lynched at all, and I'm no longer comfortable with that.
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There's also iguana's partnery comments towards you (I'd love to lynch this guy, I really would, but look how scummy the guy attacking him is) and you now chain saw defending him back into me.
Call iguana town for me. Give me a reason you don't want him to be lynched. Hint: being pushed on by me doesn't count.
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Really melisandre summed it up with 'purposefully unreadable'. Also her response to it is odd.
Really melisandre summed it up with 'purposefully unreadable'. Also her response to it is odd.
If you want to try to read me, try looking where I'm pushing, babe.
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So I've got a piano lesson tomorrow morning and I've got to get to bed super early. I'm going to leave with a vote: ii. I think this is our best chance at lynching scum tonight. I might be up a few more minutes to respond to some stuff, but don't count on too much more. I think there's a reasonable chance of ii being scum.
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Two more, let's go.
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vote: iguanaiguana
of the 4 people available it is ii > reggie > adk >>> fonti.
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I want a fucking useful flip. Get on board or get out of the way.
That goes for the rest of you, too. A lot of us won't be here later. We need the majority on iguana now. (Looking at you e).
...am I supposed to be intimidated or something?
My fontisian read is hard to articulate. I get the feeling she's playing a very easy scum game. Hasn't done anything crazy, no walls of text, and is never alone on a wagon. Nothing to stand our. What's more, her positions are pretty convenient. She sided with me when I was under some early pressure that would predictably fade, and now that I'll be a viable mislynch for the rest of the game she's moved to the scum side. Strange absense from the madness at the end of the day yesterday until she had to force the awaclus (mis)lynch through. She claims that she got the deadline wrong, okay. The ways she deals with disagreements are weird too. They somehow never escalate but she also doesn't concede or anything. I'm on mobile so it's hard to go find exact quotes, but does anyone else get the same vibe?
Actually, yes.
I don't know if I like the II wagon. I'll vote there if nothing else pops up before I go, but man, I think we can do better. For example, I'm not liking Fontisian a lot right now.
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fonti is around 80-85% town at the moment.
you can try to find another wagon, but that is not it.
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No, I expect you to die, Mr. Bond.
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Hello gift horse. How did you come to townread me?
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There's also iguana's partnery comments towards you (I'd love to lynch this guy, I really would, but look how scummy the guy attacking him is) and you now chain saw defending him back into me.
Call iguana town for me. Give me a reason you don't want him to be lynched. Hint: being pushed on by me doesn't count.
He's town. His reaction to SS's bad scumslip thing was spot on and also the substitution thing is towny. I think I explained more a while back.
Hmm I think iguana is at L-1 too, let me check
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bleh I need to go to sleep soon, should I move my vote to ADK? Also iguana is indeed at L-1, assuming J Reggie's nickname 'ii' counts. I guess this is his chance to claim now.
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fonti is around 80-85% town at the moment.
you can try to find another wagon, but that is not it.
So if there are say, 3 scum, then each player has a 78% chance of being town as a baseline, so all you are saying is that she is a weak townread.
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And if there are 4 scum, then there's a 71% chance of being scum. You are being pedantic.
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It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
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It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Oh stop it with the theatrics already. Iguana is town.
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And if there are 4 scum, then there's a 71% chance of being scum. You are being pedantic.
of being town*. And like, still not saying much. My point is that his percentages don't mean what he thinks they mean.
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Oh stop it with the theatrics already. Iguana is town.
Seprix should we try to lynch fontisian or ADK? I don't have much time
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nvm, I remember now Seprix thinks ADK is town. Honestly I don't see too much there either. I'm pretty pessimistic about us avoiding an iguana probable mislynch.
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It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Oh stop it with the theatrics already. Iguana is town.
Such a blunder, I sometimes wonder why I even bring the thunder.
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And if there are 4 scum, then there's a 71% chance of being scum. You are being pedantic.
of being town*. And like, still not saying much. My point is that his percentages don't mean what he thinks they mean.
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Oh stop it with the theatrics already. Iguana is town.
Seprix should we try to lynch fontisian or ADK? I don't have much time
Font.
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Not going to happen. Try again.
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Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
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Iphone 1s and the dominion forum do not mix well.
I want iguanaiguana to claim, I won't hammer without it
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Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
Can you feel my eyes rolling?
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Iphone 1s and the dominion forum do not mix well.
I want iguanaiguana to claim, I won't hammer without it
Hey scum, don't claim and you will never be hammered. scum!iguana sees this and can decide to (regrettably) miss the rest of the day.
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Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
Can you feel my eyes rolling?
Yes, I can. Can you feel my vote changing?
vote: seprix
I can always go back to iguana later. Will move before I go to sleep tonight if needed.
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I'm going to try and be concise and not post another huge wall of text here. This is me doing a day 2 catchup.
-The Ichi kill: I never really voiced my opinion on this, but I think that it's a telling kill, in the sense of being super safe. Ichi wasn't going after anyone particularly strongly yesterday; the fact that he was killed over any of the more vocal players suggests to me that one or more of the big wagons yesterday was on a scum player, and that they didn't want to incriminate themselves by killing someone who was going after them.
-I don't like how e has slammed on the awaclus lynch today. We were at deadline, a lot of people were sitting on their votes and not willing to move. Quick lynches can catch scum with their pants down; I'm not going to apologize for voting the way I did.
-J Reggie looks increasing reactive and opportunistic. I would be willing to place my vote there.
-Seprix seems a lot more town to me today then he day late yesterday. I'm not voting there.
-gkrieg is ringing some alarm bells for me, he also looks like he's pursuing the easy lynches.
-I actually kind of buy silverspawn's scumslip argument on Iguana. And also melis's read of silver based on his posts during the awaclus wagon. I'm currently voting for Iguana I believe? That's a good place for my vote to be.
-Uh okay my lynch is a bad lynch. I'm here, I would vote for iguana or e as my top choices I think. Sorry I let this get this game get away from me, it's been a rough couple of weeks.
PPE: claiming is less much valuable than people give it credit for, scum almost certainly has fakeclaims in a setup like this.
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Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
Can you feel my eyes rolling?
Yes, I can. Can you feel my vote changing?
vote: seprix
I can always go back to iguana later. Will move before I go to sleep tonight if needed.
You've never been that high on me.
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
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meh, who am I kidding. no way seprix gets any momentum right now.
vote: iguana
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Nice totally-not-wall-of-text.
Increasingly feeling like there is no alternatie to iguana unless he shows up soon and does something.
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
what player who hasn't had a wagon today would you quicklynch?
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I'd like to at least see him claim if he has to die, so whoever hammers is an idiot and is an auto-lynch for tomorrow.
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
you would like that
I'd like to at least see him claim if he has to die, so whoever hammers is an idiot and is an auto-lynch for tomorrow.
this is such a terrible stance to take.
vote: seprix
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
Nope! And iguana is looking inevitable but I've randomly convinced people to change their minds en masse before.
Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
what player who hasn't had a wagon today would you quicklynch?
Well pretty much all of my scumreads have had wagons today so... no one.
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Is e changing his vote every five seconds towny, or scum trying too hard to look towny? I'm leaning toward the latter.
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Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
Nope! And iguana is looking inevitable but I've randomly convinced people to change their minds en masse before.
Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
what player who hasn't had a wagon today would you quicklynch?
Well pretty much all of my scumreads have had wagons today so... no one.
Darn I was hoping you would name somebody and then we would know that player was town, likely a PR too.
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E, iguana is more likely scum than Seprix and more likely to die today. Get back on the wagon.
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Is e changing his vote every five seconds towny, or scum trying too hard to look towny? I'm leaning toward the latter.
No he's just messing around because Seprix is his preffered lynch but iguana is the real lynch. I wish there were more Seprix and I could try to stop it though. So many people won't be around, myself included. Half-tempted to hammer now just because I don't see a scenario where anything else besides no lynch happens. But I'll wait out in case something happens, you never know
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E, iguana is more likely scum than Seprix and more likely to die today. Get back on the wagon.
calm down, he's effectively on the wagon.
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Is e changing his vote every five seconds towny, or scum trying too hard to look towny? I'm leaning toward the latter.
No he's just messing around because Seprix is his preffered lynch but iguana is the real lynch. I wish there were more Seprix and I could try to stop it though. So many people won't be around, myself included. Half-tempted to hammer now just because I don't see a scenario where anything else besides no lynch happens. But I'll wait out in case something happens, you never know
???
Dog, a lynch is going to happen. What are you talking about?
-
I would ask you to wait for a claim as long as you can, lio.
-
TBH, I've dealt with enough no lynch bullshit to last a lifetime. #neveragain
-
Day doesn't end for 8+ hours, there's no need to hammer right now.
TBH, I've dealt with enough no lynch bullshit to last a lifetime. #neveragain
#FirstWorldProblems
-
Relax, I never seriously considered hammering. Just half-tempted.
-
There was a point yesterday where it was half-tempting to self-hammer too, lol. But I don't do things that dumb.
-
You know what, I'm just going to leave. My vote is ln fontisian for the rest of the day. Please lynch somebody. See you on day 3, probably.
-
Boooo.
-
on*
Also, maybe tomorrow we should actually take meli's advice and get a wagon to L-1 or something at least 24 hrs before the deadline. We are just not catching scum this way.
-
I'm bored and I want this flip.
-
I'm bored and I want this flip.
-
OK, one of you people need to hammer or I will lose it.
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I think iguana is trying to say that the fact that Jan had the thought process about day chat at all to be a town. Which, whatever, it's wrong but not terrible.
But he's doing other shit like this:
for now Vote: ADK
"I want to vote an easy target but if ADK comes back and posts another wall, I don't want to be held accountable for my."
In my experience, the "for now" thing is a from scum more than half the time.
It was a for now as in, I'm voting him for now but if it proves to be a pointless single vote 8 hours from the deadline, I will switch to these others. That is all. ADK is the scum.
-
I'm already voting iguana!
-
AHHHHHH
Claim your role, please.
-
that is all?
no claiming?
-
Also any last thoughts. Legacy. Etc.
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
-
Iguana, you're at L-1...
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
Okay, I actually don't like the guilt tripping going on here.
-
Iguana, you're at L-1...
i am actually back on you for now. so l-2
-
vote: Iguana
Not anymore.
-
Hammer pls.
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
"I'm doomed scumbuddy, just bus me!"
-
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Tracker. No fricken result. Hydrad didn't submit a night action. : (
-
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Tracker. No fricken result. Hydrad didn't submit a night action. : (
unvote
-
Who did you intend to track?
-
Sorry, I started from where I left off and read forward.
-
Tonight, that is.
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
That was a fleeting thought but I'm cool lynching Liopoil or EFHW, so I don't know.
-
Who did you intend to track?
I wasn't informed I had the role until the start of the day.
-
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Tracker. No fricken result. Hydrad didn't submit a night action. : (
Just tracket? Plain tracker?
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
That was a fleeting thought but I'm cool lynching Liopoil or EFHW, so I don't know.
Well I feel the same way about you. It's not buddying. I didn't like killing you in desperation, especially when you got really pissed.
-
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Tracker. No fricken result. Hydrad didn't submit a night action. : (
Just tracket? Plain tracker?
you should just hammer me ;)
-
Vote: Iguana Iguana
-
I hate being scum.
-
No, no no.
-
Ayyyy, lmao.
No hammer, let us discuss.
Unvote
-
No, no no.
We all have to die sometime!
-
Wait
-
...plain Tracker? That seems odd given what's already flipped.
PPE: oh hey?
-
trying to post thoughts then reading the PPEs then my posts are out of date. I will just power this one through though.
That claim had a very pulled-out-of-a-hat feel to it. I don't know. Not impressed with iguana's resignation posts here at the end.
-
He just claimed scum right?
-
Did I? I thought it was a town slip.
-
He just claimed scum right?
Looks like it to me.
-
vote: II
-
wait what?
thats convenient. we don't have to wait for the flip I guess.
I think we have enough votes already but vote: iguana
-
Would town say that?
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
That was a fleeting thought but I'm cool lynching Liopoil or EFHW, so I don't know.
Well I feel the same way about you. It's not buddying. I didn't like killing you in desperation, especially when you got really pissed.
Two things:
1. What makes you think I got really pissed?
2. Don't lynch this lid! He's vengeful!
-
Welp time for bed then.
PPE: what?
-
Iguana claimed scum after he got hammered?
-
I'm sorry II. I'll see you next game. :) I like playing with you, dude.
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
That was a fleeting thought but I'm cool lynching Liopoil or EFHW, so I don't know.
Well I feel the same way about you. It's not buddying. I didn't like killing you in desperation, especially when you got really pissed.
Two things:
1. What makes you think I got really pissed?
2. Don't lynch this lid! He's vengeful!
You told everyone that they needed to kill me to avenge you after you died.
-
Iguana claimed scum after he got hammered?
Before I believe, but after he had self-voted.
Also I would take most of his comments as WIFOM at this point.
-
He's scum. Likely some bussing towards the end of the wagon. Maybe not e since he kept bouncing, but I did force him onto the wagon.
Do not like melisandre for trying to push me at all. Definitely no more than one scum between lio and Seprix, since they were both opposing the lynch. Lio got forced into but Seprix did it of his own volition, so Seprix is probably town and Lio should be the next lynch.
The interactions with roadrunner and the guilt felt real. RR is town.
Silver probably town for the slip argument and pushing the lynch. Also defending me.
Jan is w/e. Late to the party.
-
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
-
I said I hate being scum. Technically that's not claiming anything. ::) ::) ::)
-
Well, this flip makes Font!town, pretty much. Lio is likely second scum, and we can probably find the third/fourth dude through interactions with II.
-
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
That was a fleeting thought but I'm cool lynching Liopoil or EFHW, so I don't know.
Well I feel the same way about you. It's not buddying. I didn't like killing you in desperation, especially when you got really pissed.
Two things:
1. What makes you think I got really pissed?
2. Don't lynch this lid! He's vengeful!
You told everyone that they needed to kill me to avenge you after you died.
You were a tracker in that game too...
-
Reggie's vote didn't feel like a bus at the time.
The votes came in two waves. Make sure to look at them if I'm not around tomorrow.
-
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
1. How do you know this?
2. That sounds incredibly scary...
-
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
1. How do you know this?
2. That sounds incredibly scary...
I won't claim an investigational role, but I hope you revoted after the hammer
-
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
What are you even talking about.
-
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
1. How do you know this?
2. That sounds incredibly scary...
I won't claim an investigational role, but I hope you revoted after the hammer
Wow.
vote: Silverspawn
-
That is such a ludicrous claim that I believe it.
-
That is such a ludicrous claim that I believe it.
Even from Roadrunner?
Like, there's no way that's a real role.
-
That is such a ludicrous claim that I believe it.
Even from Roadrunner?
Like, there's no way that's a real role.
We'll find out soon enough.
Night, hope I don't die!
-
I'm bored and I want this flip.
I feel like ADK gets me on a lot of levels. Could be a pocket, but I think town. The Teproc doubtcast means he's probably town.
Uh, what is RR on about? That's way too op to be real?
-
I'm bored and I want this flip.
I feel like ADK gets me on a lot of levels. Could be a pocket, but I think town. The Teproc doubtcast means he's probably town.
Uh, what is RR on about? That's way too op to be real?
Overpowered? Yeah, sure. Balanced? Probably, cause bussing.
-
Lmao, if it's real, unvoting saved my ass.
-
I'm bored and I want this flip.
I feel like ADK gets me on a lot of levels. Could be a pocket, but I think town. The Teproc doubtcast means he's probably town.
Uh, what is RR on about? That's way too op to be real?
I mean, in faust's Lost RMM game there was a role that had at least the potential to kill every player in one action, but this game is supposed to be "normal", whatever's that worth.
More likely, I'm thinking RR may have misinterpreted some investigative result he got?
-
It took 8 to lynch, so we'll be at 5 tomorrow? Potentially LyLo.
-
Possible Melisandre was bad town that lio was taking advantage of. Would lynch Lio first.
-
It took 8 to lynch, so we'll be at 5 tomorrow? Potentially LyLo.
Assuming this is real, are you thinking that everyone on the Iguana wagon was therefore town?
-
Are we in twilight? Because I'm really squicky about posting in twilight. Feels too much like cheating.
-
Fuck it.
Keep an eye on gkrieg tomorrow.
-
It took 8 to lynch, so we'll be at 5 tomorrow? Potentially LyLo.
Assuming this is real, are you thinking that everyone on the Iguana wagon was therefore town?
No, I think there are 2 scum not on wagon. I'm not sure, all I know is that the game is abour to be cracked wide open.
-
Fuck it.
Keep an eye on gkrieg tomorrow.
Wasn't he on wagon?
-
No, gkrieg is still on Reggie, iiirc.
-
I remember him being kind of wishy washy about the iguana wagon.
Who joined it with the first rush and then left? Watch those people. Especially if they left to vote someone else, not because they said iguana was town.
-
Note for scum: I didn't claim investigation.
I guess I sorta claimed PR, but my role might be invented (if I am a PR, that is. It would be pure gold if I got night killed and I was a VT).
But yeah. Don't kill me.
-
Well I just read my PM.
I'm actually a VT.
-
Snerk.
-
i am now spewed town. winning.
-
Are you joking or did I get redirected?
-
Weldone fortisian for stepping up and driving home the iguanaiguana lynch 8)
-
You ... bother me.
-
What the hell is going on?
II is hammered, right?
I'll unvote just in case RRs ranting has any truth to it.
-
Day 2 Final Vote Count
iguanaiguana (8): silverspawn, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Jan, iguanaiguana, Seprix, 2.71828.....
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
fontisian (2): Melisandre, liopoil
Not Voting (1): fontisian
With 14 alive, it took 8 to lynch.
-
Sherlock and John arrive at the crime scene only minutes after Lestrade's call. Mary had been checking the surrounding area. A small shack stands there on the fields, now surrounded by police.
Sherlock walks up straiht to Lestrade. "What happened here?"
"We are not sure yet. Apparently there has been a fight. A woman took here dog for a walk here and heard screams from within the shack. She called the police. When we arrived here, we only found... Mary... and another body."
John walks straight past the barrier, heading towards the door of the shack. "What are you doing? No civilians are allowed in. That includes you two." Sally Donovan tries to stop him.
"It's my wife!" John yells, and shoves Donovan aside. She exchanges a quick look with Lestrade, and the two follow John inside. There, amidst furniture that looks as though it stood there since the 50s, lie the corpses of Mary and a man in his late 20s. Traces of a fight are all around the room. John stumbles towards Mary's bodyand breaks down to the floor.
In the meantime, Sherlock lets himself sink onto the sofa, and taps it with his fist. "You should probably move this."
"Why?" Lestrade asks.
"Just look at the floor. See these cuts? They would indicate some kind of trap door."
iguanaiguana has been lynched! He was a Mafia Goon!
Night 2 starts now and lasts 48 hours. Night actions are due within 24 hours. Day 3 begins June 13 at 5 am forum time.
THREAD LOCKED!
-
Day start is delayed. Everyone, please check your PMs and QTs.
-
Sherlock opens the trap door, smiling. "Let's see what we have here." Meanwhile, John still sits next to Mary's body, holding her hand.
"Wait a second!" yells Sgt Donovan. "This is still a crime scene. I will enter first."
"But without me, you oafs would never have found it... oh, fine then."
Sgt Donovan descends on the ladder leading downwards. "This is... impressive. Some sort of secret lab."
"Alright, enough waiting!" Sherlock follows her down into the secret room. John looks up for just a moment, seeing his friend descend into the basement. Suddenly, the ground trembles. "Everyone out!" yells Lestrade. Only moments later the whole place erupts in a giant explosion.
John gets thrown several yards through the air. For a couple of minutes, he hear anything. Around him: burnt bodies, burning police cards, wounded officers. What happened to Sherlock?
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
Seprix has been killed in the night! He was Sally Donovan, the Neighborizing Jailkeeper!
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting (11): liopoil, gkrieg13, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, 2.71828....., Jan, Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 starts now and ends June 20 at 10 am forum time.
-
? :(
-
our PRs :'(
I hope we have more, otherwise we have to find the remaining scum in a vanilla game.
-
That's, what, 4 PRs gone already? (3 NKd, one lynched)
Scum aim has been ludicrously good so far.
This is really bad.
-
The good news is, analysing that wagon should be very helpful. I'll get to that at some point.
-
Also, lio's weird PR softclaim is looking really really unlikely now.
And he was offwagon.
And he's scummy.
Yep.
vote: lio
-
That's, what, 4 PRs gone already? (3 NKd, one lynched)
Scum aim has been ludicrously good so far.
This is really bad.
... right. I had forgotten about IG.
So he was a... vig.
Ichimaru Gin has been killed in the night! He was Mary Morstan, the Forensic Investigating Vigilante!
This probably means that our second NK wasn't due to a town vig. And that could mean a SK. I hope it doesn't. I hate SKs.
It could also mean scum has another way of killing someone... maybe a one-shot thing. Maybe more likely, given how coordinated the kills have been.
-
PRs are overrated, we win this game by lynching scum, which we did yesterday. I'm happy about that.
The first question is, who on the wagon was bussing (besides iguana)? Well, maybe e, but they also killed Seprix, who is the only other player in an obvious bussing spot.
Really the result of that wagon is that my scumreads of all the people off it have gone up. I think I'm going to have to do a thorough reread of Melis at some point especially.
-
Also, lio's weird PR softclaim is looking really really unlikely now.
And he was offwagon.
And he's scummy.
Yep.
vote: lio
Good point.
This is a normal game, not an RMM. Is there even room for 5 PRs?
-
I can get on board with vote: liopoil for now.
-
Yeah I'm glad the iguana thing turned out to be accurate. scumslips ftw.
-
Do we actually know what Awaclus was? I mean, Multiple User Personality something, but I have no idea what that means. Not sure whether knowing would actually help us though.
Also, lio's weird PR softclaim is looking really really unlikely now.
And he was offwagon.
And he's scummy.
Yep.
vote: lio
Good point.
This is a normal game, not an RMM. Is there even room for 5 PRs?
I can't imagine that there would be. I don't want to be set in stone from 5 minutes into day 3, but it would take quite some convincing for me to not think lio is scum.
A very good claim might do it. Town PRs probably shouldn't be afraid of claiming at this point, the accuracy so far suggests that scum have some way of finding out town PRs anyway.
-
why are the kills "coordinated"?
Both reggie and seprix were scumread by some folks, which makes them better targets for a possible sk instead of a 2nd mafia kill.
-
why are the kills "coordinated"?
Not sure what you mean.
Both reggie and seprix were scumread by some folks,
This is further evidence that scum knew they were PRs. Scum generally like to kill towny people to leave the scummy people as possible mislynches.
Your analysis about SKs may well be sound as well.
-
why are the kills "coordinated"?
Who are you quoting?
-
This probably means that our second NK wasn't due to a town vig. And that could mean a SK. I hope it doesn't. I hate SKs.
It could also mean scum has another way of killing someone... maybe a one-shot thing. Maybe more likely, given how coordinated the kills have been.
i was talking to/quoting silver.
-
This probably means that our second NK wasn't due to a town vig. And that could mean a SK. I hope it doesn't. I hate SKs.
It could also mean scum has another way of killing someone... maybe a one-shot thing. Maybe more likely, given how coordinated the kills have been.
i was talking to/quoting silver.
Got it.
-
And right now I have no real scum reads. I think Seprix is town and I'm null on liopoil and Jan. Like, being town is so much harder than scum because when you're scum you have information and can just make up reads based on things people say, but when you're town anyone could be scum (except yourself).
early d2.
good chance that seprix was the n1 check. will look further.
-
I will reread Teproc now
He could be scum. Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into
Let's not and say we did.
Yeah seprix was 100% his check.
-
also fairly certain that reggie was the more likely scum kill, if there is a scum kill and an sk kill.
But funny enough .. rereading reggies post makes it more likely that they killed the cop and his greencheck, and that would be coordinated.
How did you know that this fast silver?
-
why are the kills "coordinated"?
well because they all hit PRs. You think that's coincidence? Seems very unlikely. I think it is more reasonable to assume a source of knowledge.
-
why are the kills "coordinated"?
well because they all hit PRs. You think that's coincidence? Seems very unlikely. I think it is more reasonable to assume a source of knowledge.
I agree that those two kills might be done by one mafia team, if they realized that reggie had a green on seprix.
They might have some sort of rolecop too, which makes it easier. Hard to say.
Silver - can you explain to me why you wanted to keep lio alive around EoD1 and pushed for a CFD on Hydrad?
-
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
If Detective means what it usually means that at least strongly implies the presence of a SK. I'll go check faust's standardized list.
-
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
If Detective means what it usually means that at least strongly implies the presence of a SK. I'll go check faust's standardized list.
I assumed it just means cop - am i wrong? :O
-
Silver - can you explain to me why you wanted to keep lio alive around EoD1 and pushed for a CFD on Hydrad?
Hydrad was on the scummy side of null and that made him better than liopoil who I thought was unlikely scum after his claim
-
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
If Detective means what it usually means that at least strongly implies the presence of a SK. I'll go check faust's standardized list.
I assumed it just means cop - am i wrong? :O
Usually detective is a cop variant that gets "SK/not SK" but it's not on faust's list.
-
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
If Detective means what it usually means that at least strongly implies the presence of a SK. I'll go check faust's standardized list.
I assumed it just means cop - am i wrong? :O
Usually detective is a cop variant that gets "SK/not SK" but it's not on faust's list.
Is it? I see no entry in the wiki. I know that role as "FBI Agent"
-
D1 response to the hydra push around EoD:
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
Hydras is in like the bottom three people I want to lynch :-\
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Get your tower out of the clouds, I am not scummy.
You are not just scummy, you're actual scum too.
Also the Hydrad wagon is awful. We should just lynch liopoil at this point.
That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips.
I think you're right here, actually. Like, even if I die, that's more information than a Hydrad lynch.
unvote
The people speaking up for hydra are 3 flipped town (Reggie Awaclus Seprix) one spewed town (myself) and one person who is fairly townread in general (rr).
If liopoil is some sort of scum pr, then the hydrad wagon might be a planned bus. Just something to keep in mind.
If liopoil is town then the wagon is at least 3/4 town, likely 4/4.
-
Is it? I see no entry in the wiki. I know that role as "FBI Agent"
[/quote]
You're right, I was misremembering. The only other place I can find it is in yuma's setup (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11779.0) where it returns a result of "has killed/has not killed". faust is... probably using that?
-
I want a State of the Game from Melisandre.
-
So I was wrong about a few things. First of all, seprix.
Jan's analysis here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg610010#msg610010) is really good and we need to do more of that. I think one thing that it could mean is that if hydrad's partners weren't willing to defend him d1 then they might bus iguana d2. Obviously not just giving RR and Jan free passes as town here, but he was right about seprix, Reggie, and Awaclus
-
Off the top of my head, ADK is likely Town. Didn't get to do my reread of him. I didn't realize I subbed in like a day before deadline.
Surprised about JReggie. His treatment of the Iguana wagon looked bad even given Iguana flipped scum. Seprix is less surprising. He's the only one that has stuck out as likely town.
-
I want a State of the Game from Melisandre.
Certainly - my town-reads have been on-point this game so I look forward to revisiting the whole game and consolidating my reads.
The two night-kills reveals we are still in a precarious position though (3 scum remaining expected).
I am encouraged by your push on iguanaiguana [post my final thoughts of D2: Post #1593 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608976#msg608976)] - I feel you have enough town-cred to be cleared as not group-scum for today (obviously not confirmed-town, but you are now no longer in my null pile: your motivations were evident and expressive, IMO you are no longer "holding back".).
It will be interesting to gauge at which point iguanaiguana became dead-weight scum/the inevitable lynch on D2. When I left the thread he was not confirmed scum (prior to his hammer, I had no positive/direct part in his lynch) but there was enough meat on his case to get my teeth into (J Reggie and silverspawn with their two respective angles) [NOTE: revisit both their scum-cases on iguanaiguana.] Actually, the fact there was a lack of any "enthusiastic counter wagons" intrigued me at the time - was iguanaiguana that really dead and buried? (I honestly was not fully convinced by the scum-slip angle).
-
Wow. Well I was completely wrong about a lot of things. I'll have to look at everything again and make new reads.
liopoil still seems like a good place to look.
-
I thought my iguanaiguana thing was funny.
So I said this was RMM, didn't I?
And funnily enough, I look super scummy on D3, but for once I'm not scum.
I still don't think Liopoil is mafia. Scum, maybe.
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regardless of who we lynch today, please let us end the day at a better time than last time.
that eod was kinda meh and stupid. Since the mod just makes it 7 day long phase could we maybe end it after 6,5 days?
thanks.
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Ok now knowing that I am town is a very useful thing indeed because there aren't too many off-wagon people. Maybe I can have good reads now.
Looks like fontisian is town pretty much for suresies. That iguana lynch was totally avoidable for scum. Haddock and silver are on the town side too.
I should have a lot more coming once I look back a bit...
Despite the bad town deaths I think we are in great shape.
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Ok now knowing that I am town is a very useful thing indeed because there aren't too many off-wagon people. Maybe I can have good reads now.
Looks like fontisian is town pretty much for suresies. That iguana lynch was totally avoidable for scum. Haddock and silver are on the town side too.
I should have a lot more coming once I look back a bit...
Despite the bad town deaths I think we are in great shape.
Vote: Liopoil
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Okay I think there should be a scum between gkrieg and witherweaver. Probably Witherweaver.
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lol I didn't see WW's vote before that post
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I continue to insist that I have not softclaimed anything. Only if you read more into my posts than what is there would you get that impression.
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Liopoil you should claim.
If I claim you might as well lynch me. If you read my posts more carefully you might realize that. So I'm not claiming.
Not to late to switch to Seprox, I guess. But shame on you allfor thinking I'm scum. I think the posts are out there for you to see otherwise, but I'm biased.
This looks very much like a softclaim to me.
If not, it's just an incredibly scummy deflection.
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vote: liopoil
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Liopoil you should claim.
If I claim you might as well lynch me. If you read my posts more carefully you might realize that. So I'm not claiming.
Not to late to switch to Seprox, I guess. But shame on you allfor thinking I'm scum. I think the posts are out there for you to see otherwise, but I'm biased.
This looks very much like a softclaim to me.
If not, it's just an incredibly scummy deflection.
Nope, just all honesty. If I claimed you should and would have just lynched me. In retrospect it would have been hard but possible to realize that before, the second line is mostly just cryptic. So I didn't claim. Obviously the next line is deflection, but it's not scummy.
Note that I am at L-2 and the easiest lynch ever.
What's remarkable is that you all are only saying this now, rather than on D2.
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It's also completely silly to think that there can't be 5 PRs. If I were a spectator I would honestly estimate ~6 PRs at this point.
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It's also completely silly to think that there can't be 5 PRs. If I were a spectator I would honestly estimate ~6 PRs at this point.
Why is this the case? It is a normal game. I wouldn't expect that many PRs in a normal game.
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PRs are overrated, we win this game by lynching scum, which we did yesterday. I'm happy about that.
The first question is, who on the wagon was bussing (besides iguana)? Well, maybe e, but they also killed Seprix, who is the only other player in an obvious bussing spot.
Really the result of that wagon is that my scumreads of all the people off it have gone up. I think I'm going to have to do a thorough reread of Melis at some point especially.
I can agree with this.
I would also ask that everyone, myself included, reread the iguana wagon in context, not just the final votecount.
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It's also completely silly to think that there can't be 5 PRs. If I were a spectator I would honestly estimate ~6 PRs at this point.
Why is this the case? It is a normal game. I wouldn't expect that many PRs in a normal game.
There are 16 players, which is a ton, and the first four deaths being PRs trivially raises the expected number of PRs. I doubt scum are that good.
I just thought of something. Seprix is a neighbor/jailkeeper person right? So he probably found scum last night. Who did he find scummy?
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Liopoil you should claim.
If I claim you might as well lynch me. If you read my posts more carefully you might realize that. So I'm not claiming.
Not to late to switch to Seprox, I guess. But shame on you allfor thinking I'm scum. I think the posts are out there for you to see otherwise, but I'm biased.
This looks very much like a softclaim to me.
If not, it's just an incredibly scummy deflection.
Nope, just all honesty. If I claimed you should and would have just lynched me. In retrospect it would have been hard but possible to realize that before, the second line is mostly just cryptic. So I didn't claim. Obviously the next line is deflection, but it's not scummy.
Note that I am at L-2 and the easiest lynch ever.
What's remarkable is that you all are only saying this now, rather than on D2.
Throughout D2, we were going with the assumption that you had softclaimed, since you seemed to have done so and you hadn't said "I didn't softclaim, as you did just now." Plus, in D2, we didn't know about 4 other PRs.
I just thought of something. Seprix is a neighbor/jailkeeper person right? So he probably found scum last night. Who did he find scummy?
If he was jailkeeping scum last night, fewer people would be dead...
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Okay arbitrary probabilities time. Suppose this is my prior expectation for number of PRs:
<2: ~0
2: .05
3: 0.1
4: 0.4
5: 0.3
6: 0.1
7: 0.05
>7: ~0
Then the first four (of ~12) town players are PRs. The probabilities of this happening with each number of PRs are:
0-3: 0
4: .002
5: .01
6: .03
7: .07
Then we have new probabilities:
4: .077
5: .291
6: .291
7: .340
Yay pointless math. Anyway you may disagree with my priors. If you tell me your priors I can give you your new estimation.
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Liopoil you should claim.
If I claim you might as well lynch me. If you read my posts more carefully you might realize that. So I'm not claiming.
Not to late to switch to Seprox, I guess. But shame on you allfor thinking I'm scum. I think the posts are out there for you to see otherwise, but I'm biased.
This looks very much like a softclaim to me.
If not, it's just an incredibly scummy deflection.
Nope, just all honesty. If I claimed you should and would have just lynched me. In retrospect it would have been hard but possible to realize that before, the second line is mostly just cryptic. So I didn't claim. Obviously the next line is deflection, but it's not scummy.
Note that I am at L-2 and the easiest lynch ever.
What's remarkable is that you all are only saying this now, rather than on D2.
Throughout D2, we were going with the assumption that you had softclaimed, since you seemed to have done so and you hadn't said "I didn't softclaim, as you did just now." Plus, in D2, we didn't know about 4 other PRs.
I just thought of something. Seprix is a neighbor/jailkeeper person right? So he probably found scum last night. Who did he find scummy?
If he was jailkeeping scum last night, fewer people would be dead...
False, I did say I hadn't softclaimed anything yesterday, and the 4 PRs should barely change anything.
Also false, if a scumteam has multiple players the other(s) killed Seprix.
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
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Also false, if a scumteam has multiple players the other(s) killed Seprix.
I still don't understand your point. Why does the fact that Seprix died make it more likely that Seprix found scum?
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
May as well tell us what this was then :P
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
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Also false, if a scumteam has multiple players the other(s) killed Seprix.
I still don't understand your point. Why does the fact that Seprix died make it more likely that Seprix found scum?
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
May as well tell us what this was then :P
Seprix jailkeeps scum, presumably also creating a neighborhood. Scum yaps about it in their scum QT. Now they know Seprix is dangerous so the other scum kill him.
Anyone want to claim being in a neighborhood with Seprix N1? Maybe I don't understand how his role works.
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
Same.
Also, lio, you seem to be thinking that the neighbourizing would happen immediately so that scum would know to target Seprix. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen, the neighbourhood would open the next day, I think.
So we could take something from this if Seprix targetted scum N1, I guess. That could explain things. Who did Seprix find scummy D1?
PPE. Right yeah I get you. I believe, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that the neighbourhood would open the next day. So we can only go on who he likely targetted N1.
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
J Reggie was towny, and how could they know ichi was a PR on night one?
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
J Reggie was towny, and how could they know ichi was a PR on night one?
a) I don't agree Reggie was that towny.
b) scum could have a N0 rolecop. Or any such thing.
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Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet
[snip]
With regard to claiming:
@Meli: I have not softclaimed anything. There are posts you could go quote and point at as softclaiming, but don't bother please. They aren't, though I understand why they look like that.
I will not be claiming anything this game. There are multiple roles for which this makes sense. If it comes down to "claim or we lynch you" then I will be lynched. Note that I am in part saying this now so that scum!lio, who some think exists, would have no outlet to try to fake anything down the road. Part of the reason meli and others wanted me to claim was that so if I was scum then I was committed to one role. Well now I am committed to never pretending to be a role I am not.
@Haddock, IIRC this was in one of my first day 2 posts
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All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
J Reggie was towny, and how could they know ichi was a PR on night one?
a) I don't agree Reggie was that towny.
b) scum could have a N0 rolecop. Or any such thing.
a) I doubt he would ever have been mislynched. I wouldn't have voted for him. Also remember that there very well may be a SK who may not want to kill towny people.
b) Occams razor says no for me.
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Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet
[snip]
With regard to claiming:
@Meli: I have not softclaimed anything. There are posts you could go quote and point at as softclaiming, but don't bother please. They aren't, though I understand why they look like that.
I will not be claiming anything this game. There are multiple roles for which this makes sense. If it comes down to "claim or we lynch you" then I will be lynched. Note that I am in part saying this now so that scum!lio, who some think exists, would have no outlet to try to fake anything down the road. Part of the reason meli and others wanted me to claim was that so if I was scum then I was committed to one role. Well now I am committed to never pretending to be a role I am not.
@Haddock, IIRC this was in one of my first day 2 posts
Fine. But then in the bit in red, you once again imply very strongly that you have a "role for which `not-claiming' makes sense".
All of the NKs have seemed kinda weird to me. The more I think about it, the more likely it is that scum had some way of knowing who is/was a PR.
Like they killed two fairly easily mislynchable people from my point of view. I think the Seprix wagon could've easily taken off again today.
It also killed my conspiracy theory..
They probably did know about Seprix, but definitely the Awaclus was just random and almost certainly Ichi too and likely J Reggie were mostly luck.
But Ichi and JReggie didn't seem all that townie to me. I would think other people would've gotten killed in their place if they didn't know they were PRs.
J Reggie was towny, and how could they know ichi was a PR on night one?
a) I don't agree Reggie was that towny.
b) scum could have a N0 rolecop. Or any such thing.
a) I doubt he would ever have been mislynched. I wouldn't have voted for him. Also remember that there very well may be a SK who may not want to kill towny people.
b) Occams razor says no for me.
a) I agree SK seems fairly likely. Flavourwise, Moriarty would be a good SK.
b) Maybe you're right. With Seprix explained by his N1 neighbourising and Reggie maybe-explained by an SK, they only need to have guessed Ichi right.
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Nope, VT is a role too. I remember I chose my words very carefully for that post. But go ahead, assume I am a PR, I don't care.
Not that it's super important, but Ichi could also be a SK kill. Somebody's kill didn't work on Night One, and it might as well have been the mafia.
Heck, we could have a vig who keeps screwing up.
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Nope, VT is a role too. I remember I chose my words very carefully for that post. But go ahead, assume I am a PR, I don't care.
Not that it's super important, but Ichi could also be a SK kill. Somebody's kill didn't work on Night One, and it might as well have been the mafia.
Heck, we could have a vig who keeps screwing up.
But Ichi was a vig. 2 vigs seems impossible
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Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
I assume you were just messing around right?
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Nope, VT is a role too. I remember I chose my words very carefully for that post. But go ahead, assume I am a PR, I don't care.
Not that it's super important, but Ichi could also be a SK kill. Somebody's kill didn't work on Night One, and it might as well have been the mafia.
Heck, we could have a vig who keeps screwing up.
But Ichi was a vig. 2 vigs seems impossible
Oh right, strike that out then
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Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
I assume you were just messing around right?
Yeah. I got Seprix (I think) but then he died. So ya know.
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NOTE: Up to page 30 in my complete re-read and liopoil is a town-read so far.
Vote count please.
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Vote Count 3.1
liopoil (4): Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, gkrieg13
Not Voting (7): liopoil, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, 2.71828....., Jan
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends June 20 at 10 am forum time.
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ADK, as promised:
Vote: Awaclus
Someone after my own heart.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
This early real vote a standard town ADK move. A couple of posts supporting his vote. Moves to Teproc:
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
vote: Teproc
Which is sensible, except wait that's me. What the hell guys.
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
Good points. Continues to explain his positions on Seprix and Teproc. Some back and forth with Teproc. More explanations. Some judgements:
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Why's gkrieg on the list? null, null, scum.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
Well, okay, but putting pressure on people early (for various reasons) is what you do, as town.
Man, that was my real reaction looking at Seprix's post. If it looks "fake" to you I don't know how to argue against that, sorry.
Sounds honest.
I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
Defending the person attacking you. A bit anti-OMGUS; scum sometimes does this when they're overly conscious about OMGUSing. Some more D1 reads:
I've landed as town on Melisandre, just because I think town is much more likely to do the reaction-fishing "gotcha" thing. Also probably town on Jan, I might sheep him on liopoil.
Discussing with the new people, links some of his own games where he's suspected D1 as town and scum. Scum tends to do this kind of thing more than town. ("Hey, I have nothing to hide.")
Games where I got early pressure as Town: [...]
Two of those are before I began playing and one is offsite. That might explain why I thought you never got early pressure.
I think they also stand larger in my own mind than in other people's. But the point is, it's happened, and maybe Melis will get something illuminating out of it.
It's difficult to form reads with this many damn people. Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?
I'd totally say this if Hydrad was my partner.
Mmm I need to be less literal. I think on average town waffles more than scum, scum tries to look super certain of their reads.
This is true. Votes Liopoil:
vote: liopoil
I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go.
Explains:
So, before I leave for a camping trip:
I disagree with Lio that there's "no towny response" to RR's question, or at least as far as I'm concerned; I would have found a terse "no" or a sarcastic rejoinder at the very least null. But lio went from 0 to super nervous in no time flat. And his complaint about their being "no towny response" is indicative of a scum perspective, because as scum you're super aware of how your posts will be scrutinized.
I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'm fine if we lynch him before I get back.
A big reads post that I'm not going to quote all of (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604692#msg604692).
Highlights:
*Hedges on Lio.. settles on he 'feels different/weird' rather than 'is scummy'. His uncertainty on Lio feels legitimate, though.
*Goes town on Gkrieg because Gkriek isn't elaborating much on his thought process, and scum tends to overexplain. I agree with this premise, but not so sure about the partciular case of Gkrieg. Gkrieg is an overxplainer as town.
*Goes town-side-of-hull on Fontisian. No comment there as I haven't read much of Font's posts.
*Town-reads Silverspawn for being engaged, critical, and relaxed. Not sure those are good reasons for Silver.
*RR-reads RR for being RR. I can't disagree with anything there.
*Melisandre: Strong townread for being bold, getting reactions from people. Seems fair enough without knowing Melisandre, but then again the night is dark and full of scum.
*Would lynch Seprix, doesn't say much about him. Seems a bit of a defacto scum read.
*Says Hydrad is ultra-lurky, would lynch.
*Says he'll try to overcome Awaclus bias, good luck buddy. Ends up wanting to lynch anyway.
*Town-side-of-null on JReggie. Looks like an honest read.
*Says Haddock is town, though not really much reasoning. Sounds more like "I don't have a read here."
*Says Ichi is townie, if not of a strong presence
*Scum reads e. Points sound fair enough, though I haven't read e yet.
*Says Jan/Font is town v. town. That seems to be happening a lot this game. Thinks Jan is town for basically the same reasons as he does Melisandre.
*Slight town on Teproc for being within town!Teproc meta.
*Finally gets to the bottom line:
So my lynchpool looks like:
liopoil, Hydrad, Awaclus, Seprix, e. The liopoil read is probably the strongest, with e after that, and I think those would be the most informative lynches. I'm going to go with
Vote: e
This whole post gives me a towny feeling on ADK. There is some evidence of applying formulaic principles to assign reads to people (opinionated, engaged, in meta => town; lurking, weird, forced => scum), but it's not like you're not going to do that to some extent as town (and legitimately so). Generally it's a high content post that isn't easily replicated as scum. I suppose it betrays a bit of symmetry... 5 scum in 16 players, that's about right-ish. A few strong town reads, a handfull of weaker town reads, a couple "look like themselves".
Goes back to Lio:
vote: liopoil looks good to me.
Then back to e:
Jan actually has a really good point about the way these weapons formed.
vote: e
Then back to Lio:
E's not happening? vote: liopoil l-2?
Also I'm fine lynching through pretty much any claim at this point. Claims are worth a lot than people seem to think.
I think you mean to say, not lynching someone because of their claim is far more skippable than people think.
Continues to prefer Lio, but doens't seem to be happening. Offers:
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
A man after my own heart. Votes Awaclus:
vote: awaclus
Pushes it, gets the lynch. Responds with a smiley face. Man you really don't do that as scum when you know you just lynched someone. (Note to self: do that as scum.) Though, I guess there's multiball and SK possibilities.
Day 2:
My reads have got kind of muddled here, besides Melis definitely being town.
My gut tells me vote: silverspawn
Silver was a strong town read before. This is kind of good from ADK. Not present through a good part of D2. After not posting much, goes with:
vote: iguana
I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch.
Kind of a scummy non-explanation explanation. But Iguana was scum, so there's that.
Seprix and ADK, maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't you oppose the Hydrad lynch yesterday? What changed your mind, other than SS's post?
I remember being down for a Hydrad lynch yesterday. Did I oppose it? I'll go check.
He was always in my lynchpool, I don't recall there ever being much momentum on his wagon.
Consistency is scummy here! Notable here is some soft defense on Hydrad from Lio.
A Day 2 catchup:
I'm going to try and be concise and not post another huge wall of text here. This is me doing a day 2 catchup.
-The Ichi kill: I never really voiced my opinion on this, but I think that it's a telling kill, in the sense of being super safe. Ichi wasn't going after anyone particularly strongly yesterday; the fact that he was killed over any of the more vocal players suggests to me that one or more of the big wagons yesterday was on a scum player, and that they didn't want to incriminate themselves by killing someone who was going after them.
-I don't like how e has slammed on the awaclus lynch today. We were at deadline, a lot of people were sitting on their votes and not willing to move. Quick lynches can catch scum with their pants down; I'm not going to apologize for voting the way I did.
-J Reggie looks increasing reactive and opportunistic. I would be willing to place my vote there.
-Seprix seems a lot more town to me today then he day late yesterday. I'm not voting there.
-gkrieg is ringing some alarm bells for me, he also looks like he's pursuing the easy lynches.
-I actually kind of buy silverspawn's scumslip argument on Iguana. And also melis's read of silver based on his posts during the awaclus wagon. I'm currently voting for Iguana I believe? That's a good place for my vote to be.
-Uh okay my lynch is a bad lynch. I'm here, I would vote for iguana or e as my top choices I think. Sorry I let this get this game get away from me, it's been a rough couple of weeks.
PPE: claiming is less much valuable than people give it credit for, scum almost certainly has fakeclaims in a setup like this.
Decent points on the Ichi kill analysis. If ADK is scum and this is the real reason, he probably does not say this. WIFOM, but best to keep people in the dark and wondering. If ADK is scum and this is not the real reason, then ADK probably doesn't think of this. It's not going to occur to you to come up with a fake (and not rote) reason for killing someone when you already have a good reason for it. Townier on ADK for this.
Stays on Iguana for the end of Day 2, doesn't seem thrilled about it but doesn't want to repeat what he did on Day 1. Well, scum!ADK would probably find a reason to not bus his partner here. Really, no need, and not his style.
And that brings us to today. Overall more town than scum on ADK. There is also the fact that Iguana was pretty consistently tunneling ADK, right up until his lynch, and I believe ADK was a viable wagon through some of that.
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vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
Putting pressure people who express strong opinions early is good for scum- they get to have an opinion without putting themselves at too much risk, and it can put people who are trying to scumhunt on the defensive. There's a scum motivation for doing what Seprix did.
Well, okay, but putting pressure on people early (for various reasons) is what you do, as town.
I should say by this I mean, what you, ADK, specifically do, when you are town. Not a general 'you'.
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I have now completed my Day 1 read.
Full detailed reads will follow my Day 2 reading (over the next 48 hours).
Here is my summary reads-list based on Day 1 (undeniably, there are some surprising shifts from my opening reads on D3):
Town
Jan
liopoil
fontisian
Town Lean
Roadrunner7671
2.71828.....
Null town lean
silverspawn
Null scum lean
Witherweaver/Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Scum lean
gkrieg13
Haddock
[I look forward to seeing how these reads develop during my Day 2 re-read.]
liopoil is currently L-2 so I will explain my town-read based on his D1 play:
liopoil
liopoil speaks with an independent fluency/freedom that I cannot see coming from mafia. He is undeniably the easy-lynch, prime lynch-bait material: the only possibility of him being scum is as a SK, not group-scum.
"it's not like he would get towncred for sheeping Seprix."
[Now we know Seprix was town-aligned it makes this remark intriguing: it may show how liopoil was feeling confirmation-bias on Seprix (i.e he didn't think/know Seprix was town).]
"in fact, I added in Awaclus afterwards because the ratio was a bit weird."
[liopoil admits to adding awaclus to his lite-reads to boost the town-to-scum ratio. I feel like this is ironically liopoil being too honest about being self-conscious]
"Now it feels less insightful though."
[liopoil admits quite freely that his earlier observation has lost its meaning/thrust. I feel like scum usually hold their positions more strongly and feel more cautious whether to back-down from an opinion]
"I just want to hold you accountable for your actions."
[I don't read this as an appeal to emotion, I read it as town-liopoil wanting everyone on his wagon to realise the gravity of their vote.]
"The only way that wasn't straight up terrible play for scum!me is if I thought it could trick you into townreading it for being bad scum play."
[liopoil talks explicitly about his possible scum-motivation - I think scum would shy away from this. Is scum-liopoil that confident to say this, with half of the players on his back?]
"being aware of how your posts sound is completely independent of alignment."
[I actually liked this point: town want to make sure their posts sound good too (there's no denying that)]
"Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time."
[Deflective? I think he was fed up of defending himself.]
"Yes, this sounds like an excellent topic to discuss right now."
[More people focus on him - what does liopoil do? Use sarcasm to keep the topic around him.]
"I am saying this because I believe that the possibility of a lio/fonti/Reggie scumteam is highly relevant to our current situation and thus we should spend the rest of the day discussing it to death, since after all it is just D1 so there is nothing more important to think about right now."
[More sarcasm. Yes, it's defensive, but I feel like town-liopoil had lost his s**t by now.]
"Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:"
[No fancy reads-list with quotes and colours. Just an unashamed lynchpool list. Liopoil was already out in the open, I can't see scum-Liopoil trying to hide in plainsight.]
"The other four are the only ones I think might be good lynches, but I don't even have scumreads on Teproc or Hydrad yet."
[Liopoil reveals he'd support lynches on players he doesn't even scum-read: this is a player who doesn't mind controversy/confrontation.]
"e's flip-flop screams completely genuine to me"
[My exact interpretation of the Jan-e episode too].
"[Hydrad: and we are close to deadline.Vote: liopoil]"
[Hydrad added his late support to the liopoil wagon. I don't see this as a bus.]
"there are definitely others who I expect to say "not my first choice, but sure"."
[I like this awareness-of-his-own-wagon.]
"[Ichimaru Gin: I'd expect scum to have some claim ready to go at this point. "
[A good point here from Ichimaru Gin - liopoil didn't even come up with a good fake-PR claim. Liopoil put himself into forever-lynchbait status.]
"Hydrad wagon should move to seprix"
[liopoil actively tries to move the wagon from mafia-Hydrad to town-Seprix - this was not optimum scum play - especially with the number of players already scum-reading him.]
-
Up to page 60 of my Day 2 re-read.
Here are some thoughts on iguanaiguana's interactions:
My gut feeling though is actually to look closest at the players off the Awaclus wagon because I don't think scum wants to participate too heavily in a last minute snap-mislynch like that.
Was this iguanaiguana laying the foundations to scum-distancing?
The Awaclus wagon (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Which leaves off-wagon:
Teproc, gkrieg13, 2.71828....., Melisandre
[There should be at least 1 mafia-scum in that list].
is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy.
I don't feel like iguanaiguana would have named both his mafia scum-partners here. Mafia-mafia not impossible. I feel like that there is strong possibility of 1 being scum though.
Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?
iguanaiguana's scum-motivation here was to possibly gain town-cred by 'town-reading' 'town' - in effect this gives Jan major town-cred.
iguanaiguana's TOWN-READS (attempts at town-cred):
"I strongly feel that the early Seprix vs. Melisandre "fight" (more of a drawn-out misunderstanding) makes both look town."
"Fontisian's first long post here feels very on point. Town on him from this post. "
"feel very authentic. Town on RR."
"Melisandre still super-towny as well."
"First towny post from ADK I've seen"
"Gkrieg's rereads @416 & 419 seem towny. Town on him."
"Towny on this response from Lio."
"Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?"
"I think it's more that Jan's line of thinking here wouldn't actually occur to scum, who know the answers."
iguanaiguana's SCUM-READS (guaranteed scum-distancing):
"So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK."
"Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?"
"So more scum feeling on ADK."
[On ADK]: "More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say."
[On liopoil:] "Don't love this."
[On 2.71828.....] "Especially don't love this bandwagoning here. e is still pushing this case, no? Scummy."
"Do not like this. "He's scummy, but he's even scummier" is a lot of shade to throw at a time, especially with hardly any reason given, especially from Teproc."
"I did not like Liopoil's reads post at all."
"On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him."
"I don't put anything past silverspawn."
"People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy."
"Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
"I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon"
"e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... "
"I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with"
Oh my god, Jan, do something other than asking other people to do things.
I told myself to not do things for a few days until other people have done things that are fun.
Deal with it.
Still reading and if you have actual questions and not pointless demands, feel free to ask. I am not your puppet. (But i will now listen to master of puppets for a while, good idea myself!)
I mean when you redid your readslist it just looked closer to my d1 list.
Could you explain to me why you had liopoil as such a high townread and what exactly changed your mind?
And why do you think silverspawn is town, i think he moved up a bit if i recall correctly.
Both were already explained, babe.
You explained that lio would be a possible igi partner.
Did not explain silver. (At least not in the little bit of thread i reread)
So your only reason to scumread liopoil right now is that you believe igi was distancing?
Or do you have more?
Which just means all of you changes just depend on that single read you got?
Which would be okay, but if that guy is scum then he spewed me as town and you know that and didn't include it in your readlist?
Curious to why.
Wow, this posts makes me want to take another look at fontisian-iguanaiguana.
-
Here are some more classic liopoil one-liners from D2 that fill me with town-feels via the holy medium of WIFOM: [up to page 60]
"I thinj the awaclus lynch was largely my fault for causing the ridiculous end-of-day."
[liopoil puts his hand up - I see this as town humility.]
"Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet."
[Not optimum scum-play - keep the focus on iguanaiguana not yourself!]
"If it comes down to "claim or we lynch you" then I will be lynched."
[liopoil sets himself up as an easy lynch for the future - I can't see any self-preservation in his tone. Who's going to defend him?]
"With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less."
[The optimum scum-play for D2 was to push the iguanaiguana wagon and collect a golden star D3 - not dismantle the wagon by preaching town-iguanaiguana to a bloodthirsty crowd]
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Hmmm. My scumread on lio is getting shakier by the minute... I need to reread and get back into the mindset.
Meantime, Meli, while I'm liking your reread, I'd be keen to know where your scumlean on me came from, since you haven't given a reason as far as I can see. Not to ram the point, or anything, but did you take into account my position on iguana's wagon? I was on pretty early and I seem to recall making some good points towards his case.
-
I am not down for a liopoil lynch.
-
iguanaiguana replaced in on D2 with strong "scum-feelings" of A Drowned Kernel [he had a whole Teproc-ADK scum-theory ready to push]:
"So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK."
"Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?"
"So more scum feeling on ADK."
[On ADK]: "More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say."
"On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
However, the next post makes me suspect the whole ADK-scum-feelings-'I-really-want-to-vote-him' is one big bussing facade:
I'm a bit lost here. Trying to catch up has been super hard. Right now I want to vote ADK, but feel like that's a pretty uninformed vote and that I need to rethink it.
If someone see's it as iguanaiguana trying to frame A Drowned Kernel please convince me, as the iguanaiguana-associations has destroyed my early town-lean read of ADK. iguanaiguana had expressed every reason to vote A Drowned Kernel but was hesitant to vote him. Why?
-
iguanaiguana replaced in on D2 with strong "scum-feelings" of A Drowned Kernel [he had a whole Teproc-ADK scum-theory ready to push]:
"So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK."
"Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?"
"So more scum feeling on ADK."
[On ADK]: "More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say."
"On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
However, the next post makes me suspect the whole ADK-scum-feelings-'I-really-want-to-vote-him' is one big bussing facade:
I'm a bit lost here. Trying to catch up has been super hard. Right now I want to vote ADK, but feel like that's a pretty uninformed vote and that I need to rethink it.
If someone see's it as iguanaiguana trying to frame A Drowned Kernel please convince me, as the iguanaiguana-associations has destroyed my early town-lean read of ADK. iguanaiguana had expressed every reason to vote A Drowned Kernel but was hesitant to vote him. Why?
I mean basically what you're saying is that two scum players decided to spend all of day two bussing each other. And that my master plan was, Step 1: plant my vote on my scum partner, Step 2: lurk until deadline. I mean I don't have the greatest record as scum but I'd like to think I'm a better player than that.
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I mean basically what you're saying is that two scum players decided to spend all of day two bussing each other. And that my master plan was, Step 1: plant my vote on my scum partner, Step 2: lurk until deadline. I mean I don't have the greatest record as scum but I'd like to think I'm a better player than that.
I did not witness you bus iguanaiguana "all of day two".
I did however witness the following uncomfortable vote from you:
"vote: iguana. I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch."
Paranoia says iguanaiguana had a limited time to make sure he scum-read scum, and town-read town to ensure effective distancing.
Who do you think iguanaiguana was framing for a miss-lynch, or scum-distancing in his following reads-list:
No idea why everyone wanted to lynch Jan; didn't you guys see the town slip???
like the votes on e lead by Jan, thinking e could be scum for sure.
Liopoil wtf I don't even... He's so all over the place.
Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.
Ok and near the end here everyone is rushing through short posts near the deadline, no one feels like they have time to think about anything. I still really don't like how ADK starts the Awaclus wagon. So few people had scumread him during the game. It feels like the most insane cop-out ever.
Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e
for now Vote: ADK
Or... do you think iguanaiguana chose to not mention his mafia scum-partners?
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Meantime, Meli, while I'm liking your reread, I'd be keen to know where your scumlean on me came from, since you haven't given a reason as far as I can see. Not to ram the point, or anything, but did you take into account my position on iguana's wagon? I was on pretty early and I seem to recall making some good points towards his case.
Certainly - I'll be going through my reads over the next 48 hours.
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Roadrunner7671
The good:
"I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say. It's lame, I know."
[Roadrunner7671 opens with a soliliquy: it felt like genuine town-frustration.]
"When Teproc pointed it out I was like 'oh yeah, cool.' So I voted."
[Roadrunner7671 is open/care-free to share when he sheeps].
"I'm basically an IC. "
"And there goes my IC status"
(https://media.riffsy.com/images/5cd2185177cb91193bb67b0ef5ddadc9/raw)
[Comfortable? Check. Confident? Check.]
"I don't look forward to it."
[I appreciated the 'honesty' here.]
"Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?"
[Conscious of players giving easy townreads of his slot].
"Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?"
[This speaks honesty: i.e an appearance of a lack of care for self-image, no matter how controversial the opinion].
"I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum."
"Hydrad is NOT fine. "
"Hydras is in like the bottom three people I want to lynch"
"Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching."
(https://media.riffsy.com/images/cabbc7d07cfcb7265978997f226b43bc/raw)
[This is NOT how you create distance from your mafia team-mate].
The bad:
"Seprix is being hostile"
"This is crazy. Seorix, you need to chillllllllllllllll"
"you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone."
[These posts are bad in the sense of 'I-disagree-with-you'.]
"BTW this setup is probably multiball."
[Some site-meta say set-up spec is a scum-tell...]
Town read
-
That was pretty cool. I guess that's what I sound like to other people. Okay then.
-
I think that disagreeing with Seprix/being weird to Seprix is actually towny, seeing as he is an IC. RIP.
But I got a town read, which is better than most. And the ADK case is quite convincing but I never feel good about ADK. I don't usually feel good about lynching anyone, but that applies here with ADK. So we'll see.
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
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Ugh. Time is disappearing on me somehow.
I like these Melisandre reads.
I will be fairly busy the next couple days with work/life. My game has lost meaning now that seprix is town. (Not really). I do need to do a reread with the flip in mind
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
Teproc was town though...
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
Teproc was town though...
What? He was on the scummy side. Absent at the end of D1 and just voted for me day 2.
-
Okay, today my wagon is actually very scummy (unlike D1) in that voting for me is scummy because at this point scum really ought to mislynch me.
Luckily this makes sense, because everyone on my wagon was scummy in the first place, except for Haddock, who will move his vote someday I'm sure.
Vote: Witherweaver for now.
-
Jan
"And then you go on and talk some crap that sadly does not make a lot of sense anymore. Because i attacked something that happened and you are just not able to read. sad life."
[On D1 I thought Jan-fontisian were playing out an episode of 'Scum Distancing Gone Wrong' - but I later realised this was town-Jan simply venting frustration at a player who does not see something the way he does.]
"And then reads me scummy for feeling weird, but he didn't point anything out that i did that he didn't like."
[Jan wants to dig into the detail of someone's scum-read: the sincerity of a read]
"Goodnight and Goodbye son."
[Jan expresses pride in his own scum-case on 2.71828]
"That together with him blindy townreading me from the get go, because he knew I am town."
[I usually find someone calling themselves town uncomfortable but Jan somehow pulls it off].
"[Hydrad: "Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him."]"
[I feel like this was Hydrad trying to invest in some town-cred, town-reading a 'town'.]
"I accept the townread in itself, but i am still curious why you read him towny before he made that list."
[Jan trying to analyse the development/progression of Teproc's town-read of ADK]
"The reason for the vibe of self resignation and defeat was mostly because the thread consensus felt like "we don't know you, we can't read you. die."
(https://m.popkey.co/e0a07a/mprGA.gif)
[I feel Jan's pain.]
"That hydra lynch is awful for a single reason. We have no interactions, nothing to go off regardless of what he flips."
"A player who is known to lurk as either alignment. And that point lurking is not a scumtell. it is bad play, yes. But it is a no tell."
[Jan takes a leaf out of Roadrunner's book: 'The Art of scum-distancing'.]
"[iguanaiguana: Did anyone comment on this classic townslip?]"
"[iguanaiguana: No idea why everyone wanted to lynch Jan; didn't you guys see the town slip???]"
[Town-slip-gate was one big scum-f**k-up (unless Jan has now successfully pocketed the whole town - doubt it though. I'm unlikely to vote Jan again this game].
"I am trying to get a grasp on your play and part of that is understanding what you see as good/high quality and what not."
[More scrutiny of other player's reads - pro-active scumhunting]
"i am now spewed town. winning."
(http://media0.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif)
Town read
-
Who do you think iguanaiguana was framing for a miss-lynch
I mean, me, for starters.
-
@everyone - who do you think iguanaiguana was framing for a miss-lynch, or scum-distancing in his following scum-reads:
"So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK."
"Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?"
"So more scum feeling on ADK."
[On ADK]: "More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say."
[On liopoil:] "Don't love this."
[On 2.71828.....] "Especially don't love this bandwagoning here. e is still pushing this case, no? Scummy."
"Do not like this. "He's scummy, but he's even scummier" is a lot of shade to throw at a time, especially with hardly any reason given, especially from Teproc."
"I did not like Liopoil's reads post at all."
"On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him."
"I don't put anything past silverspawn."
"People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy."
"Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
"I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon"
"e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio..."
"I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with"
"like the votes on e lead by Jan, thinking e could be scum for sure."
"Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it."
"I still really don't like how ADK starts the Awaclus wagon. So few people had scumread him during the game. It feels like the most insane cop-out ever."
"Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e"
iguanaiguana primarily focused on A Drowned Kernel, Teproc and 2.71828.
iguanaiguana also had (less) suspicion on Haddock and liopoil.
NOTE
gkrieg13 was on iguanaiguana's final "Could also lynch" list. Which was suprising as he'd previously made this remark:
"Gkrieg's rereads @416 & 419 seem towny. Town on him."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
This makes me think that Teproc and A Drowned Kernel cannot BOTH me mafia. IMO, not mafia-not mafia, or mafia-not mafia.
-
EDIT:
Add silverspawn to iguanaiguana's list of suspicions.
-
Vote: ADK
No reason not to.
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
So Gkrieg is your partner? I guess I'll reread him next.
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@everyone - who do you think iguanaiguana was framing for a miss-lynch, or scum-distancing in his following scum-reads:
"So currently feeling scum on both Teproc and ADK."
"Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?"
"So more scum feeling on ADK."
[On ADK]: "More scum feeling on this. Maybe some of this scumread is confirmation bias? Hard to say."
[On liopoil:] "Don't love this."
[On 2.71828.....] "Especially don't love this bandwagoning here. e is still pushing this case, no? Scummy."
"Do not like this. "He's scummy, but he's even scummier" is a lot of shade to throw at a time, especially with hardly any reason given, especially from Teproc."
"I did not like Liopoil's reads post at all."
"On that last point, now that I'm remembering that ADK also spearheaded mislynching Awaclus, I really want to vote him."
"I don't put anything past silverspawn."
"People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy."
"Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
"I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon"
"e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio..."
"I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with"
"like the votes on e lead by Jan, thinking e could be scum for sure."
"Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it."
"I still really don't like how ADK starts the Awaclus wagon. So few people had scumread him during the game. It feels like the most insane cop-out ever."
"Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e"
iguanaiguana primarily focused on A Drowned Kernel, Teproc and 2.71828.
iguanaiguana also had (less) suspicion on Haddock and liopoil.
NOTE
gkrieg13 was on iguanaiguana's final "Could also lynch" list. Which was suprising as he'd previously made this remark:
"Gkrieg's rereads @416 & 419 seem towny. Town on him."
"is more fuel for my Teproc/ADK scumteam conspiracy."
This makes me think that Teproc and A Drowned Kernel cannot BOTH me mafia. IMO, not mafia-not mafia, or mafia-not mafia.
Well, good points. Makes e look worse. He also tosses Silver and Gkrieg in there at the end.
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
So Gkrieg is your partner? I guess I'll reread him next.
Well, read, really, not reread.
-
Okay, today my wagon is actually very scummy (unlike D1) in that voting for me is scummy because at this point scum really ought to mislynch me.
Luckily this makes sense, because everyone on my wagon was scummy in the first place, except for Haddock, who will move his vote someday I'm sure.
Vote: Witherweaver for now.
But he was teproc before? I've always been bad at reading WW, but I feel like he is town here just based on him replacing teproc
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Okay, today my wagon is actually very scummy (unlike D1) in that voting for me is scummy because at this point scum really ought to mislynch me.
Luckily this makes sense, because everyone on my wagon was scummy in the first place, except for Haddock, who will move his vote someday I'm sure.
Vote: Witherweaver for now.
But he was teproc before? I've always been bad at reading WW, but I feel like he is town here just based on him replacing teproc
Why do you think Teproc was town?
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Okay, today my wagon is actually very scummy (unlike D1) in that voting for me is scummy because at this point scum really ought to mislynch me.
Luckily this makes sense, because everyone on my wagon was scummy in the first place, except for Haddock, who will move his vote someday I'm sure.
Vote: Witherweaver for now.
But he was teproc before? I've always been bad at reading WW, but I feel like he is town here just based on him replacing teproc
Why do you think Teproc was town?
Well you can look at the reread I did of him, but he just seemed townie to me. I feel like I can reread teproc pretty well
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Back from a road-trip. Will knuckle down on this later today.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure I was reading Teproc as town as well.
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Can't remember which of my reads are from this game and which from the other.
Will catch up a bit now I guess.
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OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
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Haddock, what did you think of the Reggie kill?
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OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
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Haddock, what did you think of the Reggie kill?
I think I said this already, but it surprised me. I thought reggie was scummy so it was an odd kill.
My conclusion is either that it's an SK kill or that scum have a Rolecop.
OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
In what sense is it grabbing for towncred? What's unusual enough about it for it to be any kind of tell whatsoever? You're not making sense.
And you STILL haven't answered my question.
Look at my position re. Iguana, and reconsider.
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I don't buy it.
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OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
If it is then he sure got me. I think it's a townslip or something close to one at least.
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure we're all town. Except Witherweaver and gkrieg.
So Gkrieg is your partner? I guess I'll reread him next.
It's quite plausible that he's yours, actually.
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I don't buy it.
Don't buy what?
PPE. Oh man. Seprix is dead, isn't he. Ffs.
Sorry guys.
:S
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vote: lio again.
My days. I must be tired.
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Haddock, what did you think of the Reggie kill?
Okay, this is the best question of all time
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Seprix is dead. Stop trying to get a town slip.
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Seprix is dead. Stop trying to get a town slip.
It's really not a town slip. Scum can forget about who died almost as well as town.
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Seprix is dead. Stop trying to get a town slip.
It's really not a town slip. Scum can forget about who died almost as well as town.
Well I think he'd remember who he killed. But there are two factions. It's still a solidly towny thing in my mind, and I'm not sure why you all think it might be faked.
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But there are two factions.
Are there?
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I wasn't saying I think it's faked, I just know that I forget about who is NKd as scum just as often than as town. Maybe it's different for other people.
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But there are two factions.
Are there?
That's been the consensus all day. What's your explanation for two nightkills?
I wasn't saying I think it's faked, I just know that I forget about who is NKd as scum just as often than as town. Maybe it's different for other people.
Mostly just gkrieg
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Seprix is dead. Stop trying to get a town slip.
It's really not a town slip. Scum can forget about who died almost as well as town.
Well I think he'd remember who he killed. But there are two factions. It's still a solidly towny thing in my mind, and I'm not sure why you all think it might be faked.
For me it was the feeling of the delivery that makes it seem fake to me.
Even the way he noticed it later doesn't feel genuine
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OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
If it is then he sure got me. I think it's a townslip or something close to one at least.
Lmao, what.
It's a scumslip. He's on the scumteam and literally didn't realize Seprix was killed along with their kill on Reggie
Vote: Haddock
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Mrgg. I mean, he knew two people died:
That's, what, 4 PRs gone already? (3 NKd, one lynched)
Scum aim has been ludicrously good so far.
This is really bad.
And it's p impossible to see that Reggie died but not Seprix:
Flavor to be added when I'm not working.
J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
Seprix has been killed in the night! He was Sally Donovan, the Neighborizing Jailkeeper!
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting (11): liopoil, gkrieg13, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Melisandre, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, 2.71828....., Jan, Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 starts now and ends June 20 at 10 am forum time.
Seems likely that he read the Seprix kill, remembered that there was an extra kill on a pr, but forgot who that person was while strongly remembering that Reggie died.
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OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
If it is then he sure got me. I think it's a townslip or something close to one at least.
Lmao, what.
It's a scumslip. He's on the scumteam and literally didn't realize Seprix was killed along with their kill on Reggie
Vote: Haddock
Okay, that means he's not the SK or whatever. How does it point to him being scum? I would thknk scum would be extra likely to notice that more people died than expected.
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Ok, let's say you've made a kill and spent all of the Night phase thinking about it and debating it. You're going to remember that one through basically anything. Now, say someone else makes a kill and you see it in the day start post. You'll remember that a kill happened, because that information is important, but you may not remember who died.
I do not think it is likely that Haddock would remember one player who died last night and forget the identity of the other, especially after talking about the kills at the beginning of the Day, unless he killed the one he remembered.
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People.
I just lost track of who was alive because I'm playing 2 games at once. Simple as that.
As for why I remembered that reggie was dead. Well.
A) you had literally just reminded me.
B) reggie was a weirder kill because seprix was townier than reggie.
This is not a thing. Can we move on?
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Tbh, when I went back, I was hoping for a solid "didn't bother to read the first post" tell, but whatever.
-
Also, fonti, your question combined with this particular follow up from you looks a lot like a setup now. You're completely manufacturing a slip here, trying to throw shade. I don't like it.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
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The two games thing is actually a fair point.
-
I'm curious as to why, exactly, lio was sure that was a town slip when there were two kills.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
I realise that now.
But you must realise that the nature of the question meant I would realise reggie was dead. To ask that question and then follow up with this argument about how I remember reggie dying but not seprix, is weak at best, and manufactured scum-taking-advantage-of-admittedly-idiot-town at worst.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
I realise that now.
But you must realise that the nature of the question meant I would realise reggie was dead. To ask that question and then follow up with this argument about how I remember reggie dying but not seprix, is weak at best, and manufactured scum-taking-advantage-of-admittedly-idiot-town at worst.
Really? Why exactly would the reminder of the kills just after you were talking about Seprix not remind you of his death?
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I think if Haddock was scum, this would be a rookie mistake, and I think Haddock is the best scum player who graduated in my class.
So I'd rather lynch ADK. Iguanaiguana's 'bussing that went nowhere but could be used as town Cred' argument is super convincing.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
I realise that now.
But you must realise that the nature of the question meant I would realise reggie was dead. To ask that question and then follow up with this argument about how I remember reggie dying but not seprix, is weak at best, and manufactured scum-taking-advantage-of-admittedly-idiot-town at worst.
Really? Why exactly would the reminder of the kills just after you were talking about Seprix not remind you of his death?
See point B in my earlier post. Reggie was a weird kill, seprix not so much.
This was not a scum slip. This was also not a town slip. Noone should be giving me points for it either way. It's totally null. I'm just an idiot. I'd like to forget this happened if possible.
So far gkrieg makes the most valid point. I could see scum doing that for the town slip cred. I've never done such a thing as scum though and probably never would.
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Interesting stuff.
I think font's case is towny, primarily. Also the way she said two games is a valid point. Which it is.
I think there are several explanations for Haddock's behavior. The most likely one is the above. Happened to me in past games as either alignment, as I said. A less likely one is the one proposed in the case. So... as much as I like scumslips, I think this is worth just a few scum points. Still something.
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Unvote
Yeah, alright.
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But there are two factions.
Are there?
That's been the consensus all day. What's your explanation for two nightkills?
I'm withholding judgement. But I like my vote on you more now.
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This was not a scum slip. This was also not a town slip. Noone should be giving me points for it either way. It's totally null. I'm just an idiot. I'd like to forget this happened if possible.
So far gkrieg makes the most valid point. I could see scum doing that for the town slip cred. I've never done such a thing as scum though and probably never would.
This is exactly why this is the best time to do this.
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I'm curious as to why, exactly, lio was sure that was a town slip when there were two kills.
I like this fontisian guy.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
I realise that now.
But you must realise that the nature of the question meant I would realise reggie was dead. To ask that question and then follow up with this argument about how I remember reggie dying but not seprix, is weak at best, and manufactured scum-taking-advantage-of-admittedly-idiot-town at worst.
Really? Why exactly would the reminder of the kills just after you were talking about Seprix not remind you of his death?
See point B in my earlier post. Reggie was a weird kill, seprix not so much.
This was not a scum slip. This was also not a town slip. Noone should be giving me points for it either way. It's totally null. I'm just an idiot. I'd like to forget this happened if possible.
So far gkrieg makes the most valid point. I could see scum doing that for the town slip cred. I've never done such a thing as scum though and probably never would.
Forgetting kills happens as both town and scum. Even when you're responsible for the kill. I've done it. It's just your post sounded constructed.
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@Haddock, yes I asked that question specifically to see if you would remember Seprix was dead.
It was fair play; I liked it.
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I'm curious as to why, exactly, lio was sure that was a town slip when there were two kills.
I like this fontisian guy.
Woman.
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I'm curious as to why, exactly, lio was sure that was a town slip when there were two kills.
Okay, I still maintain it was extremely towny. Scum just doesn't forget who's dead, and this is especially so because the mafia team is probably the one who killed Seprix. Either way he's more likely to be town that just about anyone in my mind now. I thought your question was great because it made him even more obv!town. Then you went and completely misinterpreted it somehow.
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But there are two factions.
Are there?
That's been the consensus all day. What's your explanation for two nightkills?
I'm withholding judgement. But I like my vote on you more now.
Dude, your confirmation bias is ridiculous here.
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Also, fonti, your question combined with this particular follow up from you looks a lot like a setup now. You're completely manufacturing a slip here, trying to throw shade. I don't like it.
Apparently so, though I thought it served to nearly clear you
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Like, even if Haddock was on a team that killed J Reggie, he would totally notice that Seprix was dead as he would have been a viable mislynch candidate today. Scum plots, town not so much.
At the very least it clears him from one of the teams, which is really quite significant.
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Vote Count 3.2
liopoil (3): Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): liopoil
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
Haddock (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (5): silverspawn, Melisandre, 2.71828....., Jan, fontisian
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends June 20 at 10 am forum time.
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I'm curious as to why, exactly, lio was sure that was a town slip when there were two kills.
I like this fontisian guy.
Woman.
Did you come here to argue semantics, or did you come to find scum?
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Why am I the only one on ADK? I thought someone said there was a case...
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2.71828.....
Re-reading through D1 and D2 I was actually suprised that there were not many posts by 2.71828 that pinged me strong town/strong scum (as compared to the play/direct activity of a Jan/liopoil). Here are a few posts that are worthy of note though:
"liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure."
"I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all."
[I shared similar thinking here with 2.71828 - in that I'm finding it hard to see the scum-motivation in liopoil's actions. liopoil is posting with a freeness that I would not usually associate with group-scum.]
"I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged."
[This post followed the Jan-2.71828 episode (where Jan attacked 2.71828 readslist): 2.71828 originally gave Jan a town-read after "skimming" Jan's post, but after a closer look then made a dramatic U-TURN, scum-reading Jan and posting a parody reads-list. Conclusion: I can't see Jan-2.71828 as mafia-mafia. I see 2.71828's dramatic 180 to be more likely a town-indicative reaction.
"I do not think scum will gloat over a lynch"
[Mine and 2.71828's thoughts were aligned here - we could not see Seprix's/silverspawn's push and subsequent reaction to the awaclus miss-lynch coming from scum. It would have been easier for scum-2.71828 to push Seprix/silverspawn as scum.]
[I couldn't find any s**t to throw at 2.71828's slot. That is the only scum-tell I could support ;D]
I am happy to lean town on 2.71828. I won't be voting him (today).
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I'm not so sure about setting up all these conditionals. I think scum tends to do that more than town, by way of trying to seem like they're being productive.
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Why am I the only one on ADK?
Because it's a bad vote.
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Grah.
OK.
So. I need to look for options other than lio.
Silver is worth reading at some point I think. I haven't paid him enough attention so far. Obviously his iguana position looks really good but if multi ball is a thing then he might be scum anyway. Definitely he's not a priority though.
RR is another one I want to reread. I haven't seen RR this crazy in a while.
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Oh yeah, and I still think ADK and WW are likely town.
I have too many townreads this game.
Meli is entirely null for me so I guess I need to fix that too.
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How common are multi ball setups on this site?
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How common are multi ball setups on this site?
not common, thankfully.
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Okay so Gkrieg
First post:
Well there is no WW to vote for so I guess
vote: e. Clear partner interactions there
Come on people.
Actually, I don't particularly remember joke-cracking Gkrieg. Noted.
Some comment on RR meta, says he likes Teproc, says ADK is making sense. More meta:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
I do not like this. RR's meta is to be weird for quite a while until things become more apparent later on. This is to early to town read RR. Elaborates:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
He hates voting so him leaving his RVS vote is well within his town meta. We have mislynched him way too many times recently
Hyperbolizing. Rereads Seprix:
Seprix reread:
RVS vote
makes some jokes then asks Awaclus to explain his vote
more jokes, and throws some dominion stuff in there
says that asking Awaclus was worth a shot, and that he doesn't want to put more energy into it
attempts three times to vote for Melis because of his early reads list
says that for WIFOM reasons Melis might open this way as scum
warns about Awaclus
says that he doesn't like the forced reads to get out of RVS
says he wants to vote for Melis twice
says once again that he really doesn't like the reads list of Melis. I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason.
gives some setup talk where he says we are either multiball, or a 4-person scum team. I think Mistborn Mafia was this size and it had a 5-person mafia team, but we kept thinking it was multiball. I wouldn't discount a large mafia team until we see otherwise.
says he thinks RVS is over
claims an ADK/Melis scum team but then doesn't want to express a case
Has a post where he says that he townreads Melis because he is too scummy to be scum. There is also some other great content in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603318;topic=14936.0;last_msg=603541)
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
votes ADK because ADK says that there is a scum motivation for making someone defensive. I agree with Seprix here. I don't think there is a scum motivation for attacking someone. Usually you want to hide in the shadows while two other townies fight. Especially in a game this large where you will have townies fight.
points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic
Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix. I think he is honestly looking for scum. He is rereading when appropriate, trying to make valid cases on people, and his responses have obviously been genuine.
Plays a bit of soft defense. I'm mostly bothered that everything so far is reactive instead of proactive. ADK reread follows:
ADK reread:
first post is voting for Seprix for trying to keep us in RVS
says he doesn't think Melis's reads were contrived
votes Teproc because of his townread on him
says it isn't risky to vote someone who looks like they have reads early
says again that he is suspicious of townreads on him from others early on
when asked which of the reads didn't look contrived, he responded "I mostly like that you were voting for Awaclus"
Says that is because of Awa's meta
wants the Seprix/Melis fight to continue
Says there is scum motivation for what Seprix did in trying to stop people from having reads. I don't agree (as I stated in the Seprix reread) that scum really tries to do this. Maybe in a 9-person game, but much less here.
says his reaction to Seprix's post was honest. I agree that his tone did seem genuine
says that his reasons for voting Seprix seemed fine at the time
says he has changed his read on Seprix and becomes very defensive about it
says that he doesn't agree with the votes on Seprix after all the backlash he got for scum reading him early. This looks like one of two things: a natural progression of a read on someone who had a lot of posts, or scum trying to make it look like a natural progression of a read. I would say it looks more like the former
Overall he seems genuine. I feel like scum!ADK is usually easy to spot later on in the game. I think he is trying to move the gane along so he comes out on the townie side of null. I definitely understand the votes on him though.
Seems hedgey. Some more talk on not-particularly-relevant-to-this-game-stuff (meta, theory). Has he voted for anyone yet? I think it was only the RVS vote on e.
In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.
But he's well within his town meta!
Posts about not being in the game yet, promises to go on the offensive eventually.
vote: Seprix
Starting my reread and this stuck out to me. It seems very late to the party when the momentum for the wagon had already left. Also e tends to be more verbose and giving out town reads. I want to vote e, but I already think I am.
Finds a reason to make his RVS vote on e a kind of real one. I don't like this.
By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
Amended.
Thanks !
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
"accusing people" - only Seprix. But we got to the bottom of his scum-read. Please read Post #301 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603325#msg603325). I could not see the forced-reads/bad-scum angle on Page 1-RVS. If I'd presented the same hollow/unsupported/naked readslist on this page - I think Seprix may have had an argument.
Obviously I read it, I see it as Seprix exaggerating his instinctual read (that your post was scummy) to move the game along, which is townie in my book. What I find amusing/hypocritical is the whole "LAMIS" thing, because that term completely applies to your first few posts.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
What's your take on the ADK-hate since making this early comment?
Do you think the scum-case/suspicion on ADK is reachy/tangible/weak/healthy-paranoia?
Of those, I'll got with "healthy-paranoia". More precisely, "early active player syndrome". Anyone who is active early willreceive suspicion because that's how the game gets started : you can only find people scummy if they post, and moreso if they post things of substance (I'm talking early game here). I don't agree with those people, but their votes seem fine, except for j-reggie, which gets us to...
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
Just re-reading that passage now...
Is this what you meant: 'Scum-J Reggie jumped on the town-players scum-reading town-you'? (Motivation: town-cred?)
Close. While I think ADK is town, I try to avoid arguments that are contingent on multiple alignments. It's more that I think J-Reggie saw a succession of two votes on someone, and did the apparently reasonable thing (I guess you'd call it LAMIST) of siding against them. It's just that his reaction to those votes felt forced : he had to do something because he was here, so he did that.
I like this case from teproc
(I added what I think is the correct quoting and finished the truncated sentence.) This is interesting; Teproc kind of criticizing Meli for the same thing that I just brought up. I'm finding myself agreeing with Teproc a lot... I swear I hadn't seen this before. On the Gkrieg side, more reaction and not proaction.
Following posts: doesn't like Haddock's poor reason for townreading Meli, which is fair. Continues to scumread (well, he says 'bad') e for e not posting meaningful stuff (also fair, but also consistent). Says a post by Jan feels off. I don't know why he says this:
Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
I don't know why but there just seems like there is something off in this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it
Post seems okay to me. Some mis-posting but ultimately wants to say he doesn't like Lio voting for Teproc (thanks <3), also questions Lio. Doesn't change votes, though.
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
This is apparently a Silverspawn post. I don't feel up to reading it.
Says he likes Teproc (<3) and Haddock, comments that Ichi hasn't done anything memorable. Says Awaclus is classic Awaclus. First time he's mentioned Awaclus I think.. I think there are a number of players he hasn't said much at all on at this point. Maybe only one or two posts (the Silver thing was the first about Silver, I think). A little low on activity for Gkrieg.
First vote change:
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
Busyness should decrease by the start of the next day
vote: liopoil
Is gone for a bit, comes back and says he'd be okay with Seprix, but prefers Lio. Doesn't try to bring up e again.
Hydrad seems like a no information lynch
This looks bad, given that Hydraguana was scum. Leaves vote on Lio, Awaclus ends up getting lynched.
Brings us to the end of Day 1. Gkreig was gone/VLA for some of the day, which could be why he seems less present. Overall, things I found scummy:
1) Does early 'rereads' of Seprix and ADK while they are getting a good deal of attention from anyone, but no others. Feels a little like a reaction from the need to have an opinion on what's going on, but he doesn't, so he reads to formulate one.
2) Pretty consistent with reads. RVS voted e lasted almost the entire day, became a 'real vote' by him pointing out something scummy e did. Called Lio scummy mid way through the day, moved his vote to Lio wIhen lynch was possible. Only ever voted twice, I think, one RVS and one Lio. Town reads were pretty consistent as well. Overall it doesn't feel like a lot of critical thinking from someone trying to figure out who scum is.
3) More reactive than proactive.
4) Pretty strong townreads early (e.g., RR)
I would have suggested lynching Day 1.
Day 2:
Says Teproc was town from D1 (<3). Rereads end of D1 because he was gone in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=607045;topic=14936.0;last_msg=611342)
More townie on RR. Calls Lio scummy, calls JReggie scummy, analyzes Lio wagon. I suppose the idea here is did scum deflect from partner!Lio to get a different lynch? Fair enough. Or maybe that's not his idea.. I'm not sure what the conclusion from the analysis is.
Talks about his vote on Lio towards the end of D1, gives reasoning in response to Meli questioning.
Votes Lio in the following post. Considers Seprix/Lio scum team, shows some evidence of going back and forth on it, goes town on Meli, stays town on RR, says IG kill was weird. Also summarizes his reads for people on the Awaclus wagon, which is quesitoned and explained:
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Well most of them are pretty obvious. Seprix and lio are scum, IG was town and I have a town read on ADK and RR. You and fonti look like possible partners for the lio/Seprix team and Jan is null and Haddock is slight town
Moves on to reread from D2:
Likes Teproc post (heart etc.), JReggie post scummy, says Iguana is hard to read (Iguana just subbed in) but his initial reaction is townie, questions J Reggie for voting Teproc, says a Seprix post is strange, criticizes Seprix case on Teproc.
More rereading:
Says e post is mega scummy, finds a post from e that looks less scummy, questions Haddock, wants to lynch Seprix (still voting Lio though I think).
Reads list:
So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
Well this could have been made by three-IRL-days-into-Day-1!Gkrieg. And he seems to intend to go reread with confirmation bias. I don't particularly like this, but I'm not sure scum actually wants to go out and say this. Funny that I remember looking at his subsequent rereads in the speccy and thinking they had a lot of confirmation bias, without having read this post.
So rereads Teproc and ADK, and strengthens town read as expected. Rereads Iguana here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608026#msg608026), says he is slightly townie.
Rereads e (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608075#msg608075), ends up being less scummy on e than before, but still thinks he's scum.
I'm going to go ahead and post this now because of continued risk of losing everything.
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Some back and forth with e, and rereads Seprix (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608128#msg608128). Pretty critical of Seprix's play, says he's scummy while doubling down on Lio.
Also, I think you should reread yourself instead of making other people present the case for you... Like, that's lazy and anti-town.
Yeah, for all this talk of empty posts I feel like Jan has had a lot of them.
We need more people to vote for ADK.
ADK is town, but you could join the lio wagon if you would like.
Dislike. Too sure of town!ADK. Ends up voting JReggie for the end of D2:
Wow ya definitely won't be awake at 3AM.
vote: JReggie
I don't want an iguana lynch, and I'm the only one on lio.
At the time the votes looked something like this:
Vote Count 2.5
liopoil (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): silverspawn, Haddock, fontisian, A Drowned Kernel
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, Seprix
A Drowned Kernel (2): iguanaiguana, J Reggie
Not Voting (3): liopoil, Melisandre, Jan
Day 2 ends June 11 at 5 am forum time. That's in 15 hours.
Well, not great there. Though actually you probably bus there as scum. But then again he said Iguana was town earlier, so it might look like a bit of an obvious bus.
Day 3 comes around, still on Lio:
Wow. Well I was completely wrong about a lot of things. I'll have to look at everything again and make new reads.
liopoil still seems like a good place to look.
Votes:
vote: liopoil
Talks about NKs, points out that he didn't think Ichi and JReggie seemed townie, which could be a way of trying to say he wouldn't have killed them if he were scum without blatantly saying that.
Moves to Haddock:
OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
I can't help but think this is a grab for towncred.
vote: Haddock
I actually like this. Just about the first thing he's done that doesn't follow what he's laid out since mid-Day 1.
Aaand that brings us up to now. Reading Gkrieg makes me want to lynch Lio a lot less.
Unvote
I'm going to finish my rereads before I place any more votes.
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Huh, somehow I hadn't realized how much he was tunneling me.
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Aaand that brings us up to now. Reading Gkrieg makes me want to lynch Lio a lot less.
What's your current read of gkrieg13?
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Aaand that brings us up to now. Reading Gkrieg makes me want to lynch Lio a lot less.
What's your current read of gkrieg13?
Good chance of being scum.
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I'll respond to this later
-
Will do RR next.
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To start things off:
16 is a lit.
Vote: Jan
A few unrelated posts and then
Interesting.
You're doing it on purpose! >:(
No. Well, maybe. Actually, yes.
Raid isn't overrated.
Anybody who thinks even remotely good things about Raid overrates it. And LastFootnote will never see this post, so he won't criticize me about it. :)
Vote: Seprix
But this still seems RVS. More unrelated posts and then
Vote: ADK
Even I 'know' that RVS isn't the place to be.
Which I don't understand.
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
I guess that's why I didn't understand it.
Please raise your hand if you thought I was being serious with that page one reads list / "solid scum-case" on Awaclus?
Vote: Melis
Changing votes a lot. Maybe slightly townier, in a vacuum.
I'm thinking one mafia with a SK, but more PRs than expected in a normal game.
Talking about scum composition always raises my hackles. Though, common for RR, and he was responding to a comment from Seprix.
RVS is over?
Man like days ago, where have you been?
Vote: Roadrunner7671
This isn't scum Roadrunner. Scum RR is good at Mafia. Town RR gets lynched D1 and causes everyone to win.
He is? That's good to know. Sounds like lynching RR is a win-win.
So opinion poll:
J Reggie, gkrieg, Teproc:
Mafia, town, neither
Discuss.
Town, neutral, town.
Anyone scum at this point for you?
Still pushing RVS 300 posts in:
And I'm floating around because 14 13 of us are still in RVS.
There is a lot of off-topic/metagame stuff sprinkled throughout everything.
Prediction time: At the end of this reread, I'm going to shrug and say I have no idea about RR and wouldn't oppose his lynch.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
@A Drowned Kernel - I still don't understand this: tell me why "repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scum-indicative?
A vote indicates that someone is doing the wrong thing so you want them to die, right?
So Seprix wants people who want to leave RVS to die. So we're still in RVS, which is scummy because people like me clog the thread.
Usual garbled RR stuff.
What's the case?
Wait I started this wagon.
Lots of good snippets in this game. You didn't really start the wagon as it was self-proclaimed RVS. Except you specifically pointed out that you voted because you misread his post. This can't really work together:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
It was RVS
Can't be both "I had a reason for voting but it's not valid because I misread" and RVS. That's like.. vote for X.. oh wait I was wrong, X doesn't apply. Oh well it's just an RVS vote then.
Sher locks like a good lynch to me.
Who is sher? Seprix?
Also, I guess you need to do a post outside of the forum-game section too if you want to get rid of the filling-in-numbers thing (and same for Jan).
Sure looks like a good lynch to me.
Pretty nonchalant, more likely from town RR than scum RR.
RR in particular I have a townread on based on his latest posts
I'm just playing up my meta for the benefit of those who I've never played with.
dotdotdot
RR isn't really that new. He has played more than 5 games
By my count I have 15. So definitely not a new player.
On an unrelated note, I would lynch ADK over Seprix, but I don't really want to lynch either. I don't have a scum read on anyone at this point. That will hopefully change soon though.
Okay, no scum reads. And:
This game is moving way to fast.
I don't even have a scum read yet. I'm still in RVS.
But who am I towny on?
Seprix
ADK
Liopoil
Faust?
Jan??
Null on pretty much everyone.
Maybe scummy on Fontisian? But not to a point where I can get a case.
I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Scummy thing to say, in general. All that's missing is the 'scum is really good at hiding this game'.
I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
Haha. Why did you choose Lio to ask this to?
I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.
It's lame, I know. :-\
Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.
Good idea.
Liopoil: Are you scum?
lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.
Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?
This is going to look ridiculous but...
vote: liopoil
Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?
The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !
Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.
I think this is worth pursuing. Vote: Liopoil
First real vote of the game. Side note, I was going to say the vote in the post he was replying to was scummy with the "This is going to look ridiculous but...", and then I saw it was from Teproc :(
Clarification: I didn't see the case until Teproc pointed it out. It wasn't me 'refusing to be the first vote.' When Teproc pointed it out I was like 'oh yeah, cool.' So I voted.
Townie post.
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
Sort of want to vote for you. The buddying is unreal, and even if liopoil is town, you (as scum) still benefit a ton by kmowing liopoil's reads on everyone.
You know what? Vote: Fontisian
I don't really see RR's point against Font here.
Can we talk about a Liopoil/fontisian/J Reggie scum team?
Pretty unlikely. Worth noting in case RR is scum. More reads:
My preferred lynches are Liopoil, Jan, ADK, and Fontisian, in no particular order. I have an ADK scumslip by the way, let me find it.
Why not J Reggie?
Claims to have an ADK scumslip, but it's bunk as expected (along with basically every 'slip' is). Goes back to Lio:
Vote: Liopoil
Tired of messing around. I'm about to get 2 VP and a bunch of Golds.
Claims to be an IC, because everyone townreads him. Not sure why he thinks that. More likely to think this as town, though.
Be careful before you draw to conclusions. Last I checked, you can't even draw a card, Scout.
Vote: Seprix
Seems to be reverting to RVS. Continues to have a very fake-looking 'argument' with Seprix. I'd say this looks like partner interaction, but Seprix wasn't scum.
Votes Silver:
So IG's most memorable thing was his 'forgetting the flavor slip,' which SS pointed out.
And guess what? That makes SS unbelievably scummy. I'm not sure if I can really explain this, but he got all the towncred for pointing out a 'slip' that clearly isn't a slip, so IG gets nothing, but ss still gets that towncred...
And you know what they say! Only scum tries to get town cred!
Vote: silverspawn
Some weird posts follow, and:
Anyway, I don't see this coming from anything but town!RR. So yeah, you will live to D3. I will prepare.
I remember in Desperation Mafia, I pulled this really crazy thing where I did my stupid fake claim as usual then got super weird and indignant when I assumed people though my IQ was -3 but they were just as confused as I was and I got lynched. And I was scum.
So don't give me a town pass just because I make weird posts late at night.
Then
I can get behind liopoil.
Nah, this picked up too easily.
Then
Vote: Liopoil
L-2
Hydras is in like the bottom three people I want to lynch :-\
Why? Oh, because of this:
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
Townier on this. Scum is less likely to oppose the lynch so overtly.
Still pushing Liopoil
I don't like how Jan does the "if this person is scum then this person must be scum" thing, that feels so scummy.
I am not for this Hydrad wagon.
vote: ss
Now is not the time for a new wagon.
Have you considered Liopoil?
Man Lio's received a lot of attention this game without getting lynched.
Seprix puts Lio to L-1, RR immediately unvotes. JReggie puts Lio back at L-1 and more people unvote. RR says Lio should claim. Vote Lio again:
Vote: Liopoil
Strongly opposes Hydrad lynch:
Hydrad is NOT fine.
Ppes
More pushing Lio to claim. Hasn't moved vote, but votes again:
Vote: Liopoil
Says this:
I'm not going to be available after this for the rest of the day. I have one request: lynch scum.
Make sure you're on the Liopoil wagon before you leave. He's thr most likely to get lynched but we'll need ever vote we can get.
Again on Hydrad:
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
Truth.
With the way people are acting, I guess scum can just lurk their way to victory in this game.
Have some empathy my dude. We can always lynch him tomorrow after he gets a chance to talk.
Gets onto Awaclus wagon
Vote: Awaclus
Stop talking about it and do it!!!
Go go go!
Votes Lio, then goes back to Awaclus. Displays some regret:
Feels bad man. I should've unvoted.
And that's Day 1. For RR, this could be either town or scum. I'm thinking more likely town, though. Lots throwing around votes with reckless abandon. Of course you can do that as scum, but you're always thinking 'this is going to get analyzed.. am I going to look bad?' so it's a little harder to seem so carefree.
Have to take a break, I'll finish him up later.
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Oh yeah, ADK had a scumslip. I'm keeping my vote here.
-
why is his "clarification" post towny?
-
why is his "clarification" post towny?
I don't think that it is. At all, really.
Oh yeah, ADK had a scumslip. I'm keeping my vote here.
What scumslip?
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So Day2.
Goes after e pretty early:
I'd rather go for 2.7 today than lipoil. Much rather, actually.
Let's go with a Vote: 2.7
A handful of empty posts follows. Says this:
Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
Well, at least he's aware.
Why am I so high on the rainbow? [I plan on it, but] I haven't contributed anything very meaningful. Isn't that scummy?
See, this is what I'm talking about. RR saying "isn't that scummy" used to be a rocksolid scumtell for RR. And it just ISN'T any more. So annoying.
Sorry bud. If you want to read me, ask EFHW. She knows the secret and she's told a few people (like Liopoil).
Wait, so Lio knows your alignment?
About Iguana:
So L-2?
Uh oh.
So L-2?
Uh oh.
Is ii you're scum partner?
No, he is town.
Apparently not.
Jan is towny for asking about a daychat.
Scum already knows whether or not they have one. Would scum Jan! really ask?
You're buying townslip now?
I've had time to explain the 2.7 case, but there isn't a case. We'll call it gut.
Alright then.
Oh yeah, Iguanaiguana was Hydrad. So I'd be more open to an iguana lynch.
OTOH, ADK isn't terrible either.
Um, why does that make you more open?
Oh yeah, Iguanaiguana was Hydrad. So I'd be more open to an iguana lynch.
OTOH, ADK isn't terrible either.
You were defending hydrad yesterday.
Fine Jan, I'll go find the reads list again. Pretty sure it's just playstyle though.
I was defending because I wanted your lynch. But when Awaclus flipped town, scum must've helped pivot the lynch off you or Hydrad and onto Awaclus.
I don't think you're scum anymore, so that leaves my boy Iguanaiguana.
I'm not sure I believe this reasoning.
Haddock, you were scum with J Reggie. J Reggie you were scum with Haddock.
Both of you are very good players. If one of you is town, watch the other. If you guys are both scum, we're in trouble.
Sigh.
I might stay up for the deadline but do not count on it.
I'll probably just look at the two wagons and place my vote on the scummier person. No need to do a repeat of the Awaclus blunder.
Ppe
Don't like this. Preemptive explanation of votes.
Wow that sounded scummy. Of course pointing out that you sound scummy is supposed to be scummy, but by pointing out that I know it's supposed to be scummy, I'm creating WIFOM, aren't I?
Fun!
Oh good, you see it too. Then why do you keep doing it? More weird:
Is it bad that I sort of want liopoil to die, not because he's scummy, but because I'm curious as to what role he is?
Unovtes from e (he was the only one on e):
Unvote
And moves to ADK:
Vote: ADK
For apparently this:
Trying to lynch Liopoil after his weird claim thing and then suggesting the Awaclus lynch.
What about that 'scumslip' thing though?
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
:/
Prompts Iguana to claim (this guy likes claims):
Iphone 1s and the dominion forum do not mix well.
I want iguanaiguana to claim, I won't hammer without it
Says some weird stuff, like:
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
(soft) Claims for no reason:
Note for scum: I didn't claim investigation.
I guess I sorta claimed PR, but my role might be invented (if I am a PR, that is. It would be pure gold if I got night killed and I was a VT).
But yeah. Don't kill me.
Are you joking or did I get redirected?
And that brings us to Day 3.
So Day 2 is a lot scummier than Day 1. However, his reaction to the Iguana lynch does not look a lot like a partner. He seemed genuinely surprised.
Well, except now he claims to just be making stuff up:
Guys wtf!
He's a Trapping Tracker!
The reason this game is so big is because everyone on his wagon gets vengekilled!!!!!!!!
I assume you were just messing around right?
Yeah. I got Seprix (I think) but then he died. So ya know.
Is now very anti lynching Liopoil:
I am not down for a liopoil lynch.
I think that disagreeing with Seprix/being weird to Seprix is actually towny, seeing as he is an IC. RIP.
But I got a town read, which is better than most. And the ADK case is quite convincing but I never feel good about ADK. I don't usually feel good about lynching anyone, but that applies here with ADK. So we'll see.
But ADK was so scumzorz. Votes a little later:
Vote: ADK
No reason not to.
Seprix is dead. Stop trying to get a town slip.
Way to ruin it~
I think if Haddock was scum, this would be a rookie mistake, and I think Haddock is the best scum player who graduated in my class.
So I'd rather lynch ADK. Iguanaiguana's 'bussing that went nowhere but could be used as town Cred' argument is super convincing.
Why am I the only one on ADK? I thought someone said there was a case...
So quite Anti-ADK now.
A lot of his D2/D3 votes come with preempted explanation/feelers. Like "hey I'm thinking about voting for this guy" *waits for reactions* *votes*. Not a huge fan of that. Or the shenanigans at the end of D2. I'm not sure it's scum or town from RR. I'd put him on the slight townie side of null.
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vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
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WW is towny, yeah. I always feel like big rereads are towny, even though they're a null tell.
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vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
Yep, Vote: gkrieg13
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Work has been......interesting. really sorry that I have neglected this game. I feel like gkrieg is the current fad. I remember a D1 scum read of him for some reason. I like WW and Melisandre for their rereads. Mostly finding people townie, which is what it is. Either way, not lynching today.
I used to have a big town read on liopoil, but he has had some posts recently that have mellowed that. Need a targeted reread (as well as being at my computer) to find them.
But then, like I started, gkrieg seems like a good option for today. Day ends the 20th (Monday), promise to read over the weekend. Do a load of laundry, reread liopoil. Vacuum the floor, reread gkrieg. That sort of thing
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I'm not getting to this today, but will definitely get to it tomorrow
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Have to dig back into this .. later today/tonight (need to get to the store and buy food before they close).
Any of you people around on a set time during the weekend? would be curious to have some real time talk over the thread with people.
More fun/good way to read people.
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Okay so Gkrieg
First post:
Well there is no WW to vote for so I guess
vote: e. Clear partner interactions there
Come on people.
Actually, I don't particularly remember joke-cracking Gkrieg. Noted.
I always joke at the beginning of a game.
Some comment on RR meta, says he likes Teproc, says ADK is making sense. More meta:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
I do not like this. RR's meta is to be weird for quite a while until things become more apparent later on. This is to early to town read RR. Elaborates:
Vote: Roadrunner7671
I'm sort of feeling that, but from his meta it seems like a bad idea.
I agree with this here. He seems very well within his meta here.
Was Roadrunner7671 "well within" his town meta in the below post? (you appeared slightly perturbed):
I misread ADK's post but I'm not gonna unvote.
Wait what?
He hates voting so him leaving his RVS vote is well within his town meta. We have mislynched him way too many times recently
Hyperbolizing. Rereads Seprix:
Seprix reread:
RVS vote
makes some jokes then asks Awaclus to explain his vote
more jokes, and throws some dominion stuff in there
says that asking Awaclus was worth a shot, and that he doesn't want to put more energy into it
attempts three times to vote for Melis because of his early reads list
says that for WIFOM reasons Melis might open this way as scum
warns about Awaclus
says that he doesn't like the forced reads to get out of RVS
says he wants to vote for Melis twice
says once again that he really doesn't like the reads list of Melis. I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason.
gives some setup talk where he says we are either multiball, or a 4-person scum team. I think Mistborn Mafia was this size and it had a 5-person mafia team, but we kept thinking it was multiball. I wouldn't discount a large mafia team until we see otherwise.
says he thinks RVS is over
claims an ADK/Melis scum team but then doesn't want to express a case
Has a post where he says that he townreads Melis because he is too scummy to be scum. There is also some other great content in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603318;topic=14936.0;last_msg=603541)
unvotes Melis and gives him a D1 pass
votes ADK because ADK says that there is a scum motivation for making someone defensive. I agree with Seprix here. I don't think there is a scum motivation for attacking someone. Usually you want to hide in the shadows while two other townies fight. Especially in a game this large where you will have townies fight.
points out the inconsistency with ADK's logic
Overall I don't get why people are voting for Seprix. I think he is honestly looking for scum. He is rereading when appropriate, trying to make valid cases on people, and his responses have obviously been genuine.
Plays a bit of soft defense. I'm mostly bothered that everything so far is reactive instead of proactive. ADK reread follows:
To be fair, I was not present in the beginning of the game because of IRL things like moving. So I didn't really have a choice but to be reactive.
ADK reread:
first post is voting for Seprix for trying to keep us in RVS
says he doesn't think Melis's reads were contrived
votes Teproc because of his townread on him
says it isn't risky to vote someone who looks like they have reads early
says again that he is suspicious of townreads on him from others early on
when asked which of the reads didn't look contrived, he responded "I mostly like that you were voting for Awaclus"
Says that is because of Awa's meta
wants the Seprix/Melis fight to continue
Says there is scum motivation for what Seprix did in trying to stop people from having reads. I don't agree (as I stated in the Seprix reread) that scum really tries to do this. Maybe in a 9-person game, but much less here.
says his reaction to Seprix's post was honest. I agree that his tone did seem genuine
says that his reasons for voting Seprix seemed fine at the time
says he has changed his read on Seprix and becomes very defensive about it
says that he doesn't agree with the votes on Seprix after all the backlash he got for scum reading him early. This looks like one of two things: a natural progression of a read on someone who had a lot of posts, or scum trying to make it look like a natural progression of a read. I would say it looks more like the former
Overall he seems genuine. I feel like scum!ADK is usually easy to spot later on in the game. I think he is trying to move the gane along so he comes out on the townie side of null. I definitely understand the votes on him though.
Seems hedgey. Some more talk on not-particularly-relevant-to-this-game-stuff (meta, theory). Has he voted for anyone yet? I think it was only the RVS vote on e.
In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.
But he's well within his town meta!
Posts about not being in the game yet, promises to go on the offensive eventually.
vote: Seprix
Starting my reread and this stuck out to me. It seems very late to the party when the momentum for the wagon had already left. Also e tends to be more verbose and giving out town reads. I want to vote e, but I already think I am.
Finds a reason to make his RVS vote on e a kind of real one. I don't like this.
By the way : Melisandre, could you get a signature, or personal text, or something ? As has been pointed out, we have no special feature for specifically looking at one player's post, and there's nothing I can Ctrl+F to isolate your posts right now (because "pawn" is in "silverspawn" and "posts: 1" also triggers Hydrad, e etc.).
Amended.
Thanks !
So, you're opening the game with a huge reads list, and accusing people voting for you of trying too hard to be towny ? You do see the irony there right ? More importantly, I'm curious how your games usually start : people taking strong stances on small things is the essence of day 1 mafia.
"accusing people" - only Seprix. But we got to the bottom of his scum-read. Please read Post #301 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603325#msg603325). I could not see the forced-reads/bad-scum angle on Page 1-RVS. If I'd presented the same hollow/unsupported/naked readslist on this page - I think Seprix may have had an argument.
Obviously I read it, I see it as Seprix exaggerating his instinctual read (that your post was scummy) to move the game along, which is townie in my book. What I find amusing/hypocritical is the whole "LAMIS" thing, because that term completely applies to your first few posts.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
What's your take on the ADK-hate since making this early comment?
Do you think the scum-case/suspicion on ADK is reachy/tangible/weak/healthy-paranoia?
Of those, I'll got with "healthy-paranoia". More precisely, "early active player syndrome". Anyone who is active early willreceive suspicion because that's how the game gets started : you can only find people scummy if they post, and moreso if they post things of substance (I'm talking early game here). I don't agree with those people, but their votes seem fine, except for j-reggie, which gets us to...
When silver and ADK were voting for me he criticized that and threw suspicion on both, though he focused more on ADK.
Just re-reading that passage now...
Is this what you meant: 'Scum-J Reggie jumped on the town-players scum-reading town-you'? (Motivation: town-cred?)
Close. While I think ADK is town, I try to avoid arguments that are contingent on multiple alignments. It's more that I think J-Reggie saw a succession of two votes on someone, and did the apparently reasonable thing (I guess you'd call it LAMIST) of siding against them. It's just that his reaction to those votes felt forced : he had to do something because he was here, so he did that.
I like this case from teproc
(I added what I think is the correct quoting and finished the truncated sentence.) This is interesting; Teproc kind of criticizing Meli for the same thing that I just brought up. I'm finding myself agreeing with Teproc a lot... I swear I hadn't seen this before. On the Gkrieg side, more reaction and not proaction.
Following posts: doesn't like Haddock's poor reason for townreading Meli, which is fair. Continues to scumread (well, he says 'bad') e for e not posting meaningful stuff (also fair, but also consistent).
e really wasn't posting anything with any content at that point. His D1 looks really bad. He has improved a little bit on D2. Being overly consistent is a scum tell, but tunneling often comes from town, which is consistently scum reading someone. Tell me what stuff e had said that was content full D1.
Says a post by Jan feels off. I don't know why he says this:
Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
I don't know why but there just seems like there is something off in this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it
Post seems okay to me. Some mis-posting but ultimately wants to say he doesn't like Lio voting for Teproc (thanks <3), also questions Lio. Doesn't change votes, though.
I think what feels off about this post is the tone of the sentence, I will do one better. It seems like a "look at me, I'm voting". It just seems like a weird thing to say
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
This is apparently a Silverspawn post. I don't feel up to reading it.
Says he likes Teproc (<3) and Haddock, comments that Ichi hasn't done anything memorable. Says Awaclus is classic Awaclus. First time he's mentioned Awaclus I think.. I think there are a number of players he hasn't said much at all on at this point. Maybe only one or two posts (the Silver thing was the first about Silver, I think). A little low on activity for Gkrieg.
First vote change:
I haven't had enough time recently for this game with moving and stuff. Of the two larger wagons, I would rather go liopoil based on what I remember from this game. Neither of lio and Jan stuck out as super townie/don't want to lynch, and more of my town reads are on the lio wagon.
Busyness should decrease by the start of the next day
vote: liopoil
Is gone for a bit, comes back and says he'd be okay with Seprix, but prefers Lio. Doesn't try to bring up e again.
Hydrad seems like a no information lynch
This looks bad, given that Hydraguana was scum. Leaves vote on Lio, Awaclus ends up getting lynched.
Brings us to the end of Day 1. Gkreig was gone/VLA for some of the day, which could be why he seems less present. Overall, things I found scummy:
1) Does early 'rereads' of Seprix and ADK while they are getting a good deal of attention from anyone, but no others. Feels a little like a reaction from the need to have an opinion on what's going on, but he doesn't, so he reads to formulate one.
I mean I did start moving at the start of D1, then got into my new place right before it ended. I did need to have an opinion of what was going on to figure out who was making sense and who wasn't. I didn't have a lot of time, so it seemed like it was a good idea to look at the people that were causing the most controversy and go from there.
2) Pretty consistent with reads. RVS voted e lasted almost the entire day, became a 'real vote' by him pointing out something scummy e did. Called Lio scummy mid way through the day, moved his vote to Lio wIhen lynch was possible. Only ever voted twice, I think, one RVS and one Lio. Town reads were pretty consistent as well. Overall it doesn't feel like a lot of critical thinking from someone trying to figure out who scum is.
Once again, was gone, not reading the game very much, so my consistency in reads was caused by little information.
3) More reactive than proactive.
4) Pretty strong townreads early (e.g., RR)
RR is someone who is pretty easy to get a town read on when he is pretty active. He has posts where he has town slips. It is hard to read him when he isn't posting very much or when he does stupid things.
I would have suggested lynching Day 1.
Day 2:
Says Teproc was town from D1 (<3). Rereads end of D1 because he was gone in this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=607045;topic=14936.0;last_msg=611342)
More townie on RR. Calls Lio scummy, calls JReggie scummy, analyzes Lio wagon. I suppose the idea here is did scum deflect from partner!Lio to get a different lynch? Fair enough. Or maybe that's not his idea.. I'm not sure what the conclusion from the analysis is.
Talks about his vote on Lio towards the end of D1, gives reasoning in response to Meli questioning.
Votes Lio in the following post. Considers Seprix/Lio scum team, shows some evidence of going back and forth on it, goes town on Meli, stays town on RR, says IG kill was weird. Also summarizes his reads for people on the Awaclus wagon, which is quesitoned and explained:
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Well most of them are pretty obvious. Seprix and lio are scum, IG was town and I have a town read on ADK and RR. You and fonti look like possible partners for the lio/Seprix team and Jan is null and Haddock is slight town
Moves on to reread from D2:
Likes Teproc post (heart etc.), JReggie post scummy, says Iguana is hard to read (Iguana just subbed in) but his initial reaction is townie, questions J Reggie for voting Teproc, says a Seprix post is strange, criticizes Seprix case on Teproc.
More rereading:
Says e post is mega scummy, finds a post from e that looks less scummy, questions Haddock, wants to lynch Seprix (still voting Lio though I think).
Reads list:
So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
Well this could have been made by three-IRL-days-into-Day-1!Gkrieg. And he seems to intend to go reread with confirmation bias. I don't particularly like this, but I'm not sure scum actually wants to go out and say this. Funny that I remember looking at his subsequent rereads in the speccy and thinking they had a lot of confirmation bias, without having read this post.
So rereads Teproc and ADK, and strengthens town read as expected. Rereads Iguana here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608026#msg608026), says he is slightly townie.
Rereads e (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608075#msg608075), ends up being less scummy on e than before, but still thinks he's scum.
I'm going to go ahead and post this now because of continued risk of losing everything.
Because this was a long post, I tried to respond to things in bold. It might not be the best formatting, but I couldn't figure out a better way to do it so there. I will respond to the other post as well.
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Actually the second post didn't have too much that I felt I needed to respond to.
WW's town read stayed pretty consistent from me through reading this though. He looks like he is really trying to find scum.
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vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
Yep, Vote: gkrieg13
I really don't like this vote from liopoil. I don't really like the haddock vote either. I think D3 is a point where you can't just sheep someone that you have a town read on.
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Like, even if Haddock was on a team that killed J Reggie, he would totally notice that Seprix was dead as he would have been a viable mislynch candidate today. Scum plots, town not so much.
At the very least it clears him from one of the teams, which is really quite significant.
I don't agree with this at all. It is such a big game, that I think it is very easy for scum to forget who is dead. Although my real problem with haddock's post was the tone. It just seemed like he was reading the game and "didn't realize" that Seprix was dead.
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Have to dig back into this .. later today/tonight (need to get to the store and buy food before they close).
Any of you people around on a set time during the weekend? would be curious to have some real time talk over the thread with people.
More fun/good way to read people.
I agree with this. Unfortunately, I have no way to know when I will be free today. I just had a little bit of time, but I have a lot more chores to do.
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hmmmm.
I was hoping that at least someone would be around all day to talk to. Especially because the deadline is soon.
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So I don't think I had reread iguana yet, so I will do that.
He says that silverspawn is town right out of the gate because of one of his posts.
feels scum on both Teproc and ADK
Doesn't like that ADK is being ignored.
Says that Seprix and Melis both look town.
gives fontisian a town read
gives RR a town read
says e is scummy
also says that Teproc has a scummy post
once again says that melis and Seprix are town
says J Reggis is kinda scummy for buddying
says I'm town
Says Jan's vote " May be a scummy vote"
says he doesn't like lio's reads post at all.
says that it looks townie on Seprix, he still isn't so sure about silver
says again that e's lurking is scummy
says a response from lio is townie
says Jan had the classic town slip
votes lio because he really doesn't like a reads post from him.
starts responding to the votes on him.
ok in the post where he talks individually about each vote on him he gives reads on all the people who have voted for him.
Seprix fontisian town
Haddock JReggie null
silver - null/scum
ADK - scum
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg608185#msg608185) is a little bit weird. Like I don't really get what he is trying to say here, or what this says about WW.
gives a list of people he could lynch: haddock, gkrieg, e, silverspawn, maybe Teproc
ok so those were basically just notes that might be nice for people to see. unfortunately I didn't really link anything until the very end because I wasn't thinking about posting them, but it might help other people so I figured I would post them anyway.
Conclusion
So here are a summary of the reads that he gave.
town: Seprix, Melis, fonti, RR, Jan <- these 5 people he said were townie and never wavered on his opinion of them
scum: ADK, Teproc, e <- These people he also gives scum reads and never really changes his mind. I mean he goes a little back and forth on Teproc but not much
Flip-floppy: silverspawn, haddock, liopoil, gkrieg, JReggie
So I'm thinking he would distribute his reads of the other scum pretty evenly across each of the groups. I guess the question is what kind of scum we have. I would say the two most likely are 4 + SK, or 5 mafia that have some interesting kill abilities. Like maybe they have a poisoner or something. But I would say that 4+SK is the most likely for this number and based on the kills that we have seen.
So there are 3 other scum that he knows about. So does he put 1 in each group? Or is he really not paying that much attention. I think the main thing that I can get out of this is who is town. The way that he went after ADK gives me a stronger town read on him. I just don't htink that scum goes for one of their partners like that right out of the gate.
I would guess that someone in the flip-floppy group has to be scum. I think that you want to have one of your partners in there. But I would guess there is also a scum in his scum reads and in his town reads. I don't think you have reads that stay the same the whole time without scum being one of them. I think that is the easiest way to not interact with your partners.
I guess long story short, that probably doesn't make much sense and I'm not really sure how to interpret these reads. But I compiled them and put them out there.
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
iguanaiguana (8): silverspawn, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Jan, iguanaiguana, Seprix, 2.71828.....
and this is the wagon at the end of the day. Based on how the wagon went down, I would think that there at least has to be 1 scum on the wagon. There are two people in his scum reads, 2 people from his flipflop reads, and one of his town reads that are on his wagon at the end of the day.
I think I'm trying to get too much information out of this, but this wagon makes me townier on ss, and scummier on Haddock. It also makes me scummier on e and Jan. Like I feel like there has to be scum among Haddock, e, and Jan. I mean I'm already voting for Haddock, but I think I need to look at e and Jan again. I would definitely lynch any of the three today.
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vote: iguanaiguana
of the 4 people available it is ii > reggie > adk >>> fonti.
eh this vote makes me not really want to go for Jan today.
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meh, who am I kidding. no way seprix gets any momentum right now.
vote: iguana
This is the much scummier vote of the two.
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vote: iguana
More to come.
This is Haddock's vote on him. He then gives this post later:
Vote: iguanaiguana
I'm good with killing lio too at this point.
This summarises my current stance pretty nicely.
People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
And, y'know. Silverspawn. And me-sheeping-silverspawn.
He also gives this post a little bit later. Out of the three votes that I wanted to look at on iguana, I think that e's looks the scummiest, it really looks like a scum bus at that point. Especially how he tries to change it just a little bit later.
vote: e
haddock's vote isn't exactly great, as it comes with the promise of a reason, but then doesn't really supply a reason, which is strange for him. It seems that people don't really want to lynch him, so e is a good alternative.
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Also I noticed that both e and Jan have looked at the thread since I started posting all of this stuff and haven't come in and join me. doesn't really mean anything, but I'm bored and so I was checking.
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Well I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to put into this tomorrow, hopefully it is some, because I don't think we are anywhere close to a lynch, and the deadline is on Monday I believe.
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Especially because the deadline is on Monday morning fairly early in the morning for me. But I do want to be around for the end of the day this time, so I plan on waking up if I need to.
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Have to dig back into this .. later today/tonight (need to get to the store and buy food before they close).
Any of you people around on a set time during the weekend? would be curious to have some real time talk over the thread with people.
More fun/good way to read people.
I'll probably be around tomorrow night.
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I think, based on the way iguana tried to "townclear" Jan, he was the type of player to pocket townies and try to look good by giving strong townreads on town. This, coupled with the fact that he replaced into a slot that came close to being lynched Day 1, makes me think most of his townreads are probably town (Jan, especially). This is a tad selfserving.
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gkrieg: You say that e's vote on iguana's looks the worst, but e made a point of saying that his vote was under duress and that he wanted to vote for Seprix. Do you really think mafia e would grumble about a wagon on a partner that much instead of just going with the flow and trying to get credit? It's not like the wagon was ever flipping to Seprix.
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Like, at this point, e, Jan, Roadrunner and Silver are in my "do not touch" pile. E for the needless vote flopping when the lynch was decided, Jan because that wasn't a partner interaction, Roadrunner because iguana spewed him clear, and Silver for basically forming the lynch.
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Actually, that just leaves liopoil, gkrieg13, Melisandre, ADK, Haddock and Witherweaver.
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I'll be around for the rest of the day with the exception of 3-5ish forum time for a league match.
Gkrieg, your reads thing is actually making me feel much better about you. It has also convinced me I need to read e again.
So well played (whatever your alignment! )
But two things.
1) I don't see how the iguana wagon can possible make you see me as scummy. It's like the one overwhelmingly towny thing I've done this game. I was on the wagon pretty dang early, and I contributed to the case even on top of the scum slip argument. I will find those posts later if you like. (Phone posting right now)
2) that post you isolate where I say "more to come." I can see how you would see that as me promising to explain my iguana vote. It wasn't intended as such. It was more just a general "I will do some rereads and say things". Not specific to iguana. Besides, i mean certain I made some iguana reasons later on. Like I say, I'll fish those out at some point.
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"i mean"=> "I'm"
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I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.
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Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
Just saw this while rereading.
Really awful.
I could go back to lio here. Gonna reread ADK and e first since I've been neglecting them recently.
Also, gkrieg, here's my posts where I actually contribute to the iguana thing. It's not the best thing ever, but it's there. (Note that I'm voting him before and after this)
OK, so iguana does look bad in general, to my mind. That's separate from the apparent scumslip.
There's lots of little things, but just a couple of posts I noticed on reread, which stood out as things I hadn't yet commented on:
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
This is really scummy from my perspective, amplified by the fact that I strongly disagree with his read on Teproc/Witherweaver.
People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....
Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?
Disagreement is not a scumtell. And e is actually looking towny lately, fwiw (in his most most recent posts, anyway, which are not THAT recent).
Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.
...
Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e
for now Vote: ADK
Well, that was a mess. Good luck reading 60 pages in 24 hours Witherweaver! It's, uh, not going to be fun.
He's been nullreading me up to this point. I just think it's wonderfully ironic that he's accusing me of treading water when he's actually had way more posts than me saying "I'm trying to catch up, I promise!" Since I'm town, though, and I have been struggling this game, I can hardly scumread him for such posts. And he's being quite hypocritical by using that as a reason to scumread me.
The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
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OK. Lots to say about e. This is his first post of real interest.
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
Much to say here. I don't like his hedge on RR.
He starts his defense of lio, which will become a theme. We won't know what to make of that until one or other of them dies.
He also begins his semi-tunnelling of gkrieg, which is ongoing. Again, we can't know what to say about that, really.
Big things: Defends Hydrad in an ugly way.
Starts pushing Seprix, which he does consistently.
I also think Teproc/WW is town, so not good.
More lio defense:
So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
Welp. I could be super disingenuous and say: "If lio is town this is whiteknighting. If lio is scum this looks bad." That's pretty poor though.
More pushing of gkrieg. I don't necessarily disagree actually. Worth noting though.
gkrieg's game has consisted entirely of the following two things:
I like the read/post/etc by X person
I don't like the read/post/etc by Y person
So yeah, a lot of 'input' by gkrieg but nothing that is difficult for him. Just going off whatever other people say. I am happy keeping my vote here.
Seprix. He has that early vote on Melisandre because of the RVS reads post. I mean, it is a nice little vote that he has decent enough reason for and defends it well. Very protective of his vote, which could go either way. I know I like to vote with a case and defend it well as scum or town. I think really the one thing that we can learn from it is that Melisandre and Seprix are not scum together. One might be, or the other....but not both. Basically, if you are going to vote for your partner you don't mistakenly vote for Jan. You vote for your partner.
I am fairly null on Seprix right now. He has been around and had some fun interactions, nothing super townie or scummy so far. I think he lands slightly on the scummy side of null though.
This does not mesh with other things he's said about Seprix. I really really don't like his treatment of Seprix here. It's like a hedgey scumread. Bleh.
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
Distancing? Feels that way. He's not committing a read, just using pressure as an excuse, so that he can get off as soon as Hydrad contributes.
Vote: seprix.
Jan isn't happening and I really am not feeling liopoil. Seprix is a good alternative wagon.
Blehhhh. More pushing of the Seprix wagon while trying to seem reluctant.
Liopoil is still L-3 anyway, so not committing just reads like you not wanting to make a decision and go with whatever everyone else does.
That's freaking sheeping. So if I don't want to commit, I'm scum, and if I commit, I'm a freaking sheep and I'm scum anyways?
Sounds good to me
Ewww.
Not sure what to make of this iguana wagon. The case seems a little...well....fabricated. I will have to go back and look at iguana more carefully
Ewwwwwwwwwww!
This too:
I am confident that scum exists on that wagon, I just have never been too convinced by "scumslip" arguments. Still need to read iguana as a whole and see how he looks
Gkrieg's reads:
People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch
And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e
Back to pushing gkrieg again. Worth noting, though I can't draw conclusions from it yet.
Tries desperately (several times) to get off the iguana wagon and lynch Seprix instead. This is ugly:
Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
Can you feel my eyes rolling?
Yes, I can. Can you feel my vote changing?
vote: seprix
I can always go back to iguana later. Will move before I go to sleep tonight if needed.
Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
you would like that
I'd like to at least see him claim if he has to die, so whoever hammers is an idiot and is an auto-lynch for tomorrow.
this is such a terrible stance to take.
vote: seprix
It's a pretty bad stance. But it's very Seprix. Bad reason for a vote.
I think I've got some of these in the wrong order. When I reread I open up interesting quotes in new tabs. And I think I lost track of order. Still though.
Adds up to vote: e. His positions are scummy and we actually get a ton of info from his lynch even if this is wrong. He has some really interesting interaction with gkrieg and lio in particular.
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Vote Count 3.3
liopoil (1): A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): liopoil
2.71828..... (2): gkrieg13, Haddock
Not Voting (6): silverspawn, Melisandre, 2.71828....., Jan, fontisian, Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends June 20 at 10 am forum time. That's in 22.5 hours.
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gkrieg: You say that e's vote on iguana's looks the worst, but e made a point of saying that his vote was under duress and that he wanted to vote for Seprix. Do you really think mafia e would grumble about a wagon on a partner that much instead of just going with the flow and trying to get credit? It's not like the wagon was ever flipping to Seprix.
I think he has to do this at that point. He has to make it look like it isn't a bus if he wants to get any town cred out of it.
-
I'm also surprised the lio lynch isn't happening again. I still don't think he is townie and the fact that he is hard to lynch just makes it more scummy in my eyes
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I just reread ADK.
I would like RR to elaborate on this:
I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.
Right now would lynch e or lio, and MAYBE gkrieg.
e>lio>>>>gkrieg.
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@Haddock, your quote where I say Hydrad wagon should move to Seprix completely out of context. I made it very clear that I would lynch Hudrad and was even one of the people who started the wagon. At the point of that post it was clear to me that it wouldn't happen.
More coming...
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Less than a day left :( It's going to be hard to finish rereads. I'll do one of the new people next.
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I think, based on the way iguana tried to "townclear" Jan, he was the type of player to pocket townies and try to look good by giving strong townreads on town. This, coupled with the fact that he replaced into a slot that came close to being lynched Day 1, makes me think most of his townreads are probably town (Jan, especially). This is a tad selfserving.
I actually do agree that iguana makes Jan look towny.
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Like, at this point, e, Jan, Roadrunner and Silver are in my "do not touch" pile. E for the needless vote flopping when the lynch was decided, Jan because that wasn't a partner interaction, Roadrunner because iguana spewed him clear, and Silver for basically forming the lynch.
Can you point out where iguana spews RR clear? I agree with the rest.
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vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
Yep, Vote: gkrieg13
I really don't like this vote from liopoil. I don't really like the haddock vote either. I think D3 is a point where you can't just sheep someone that you have a town read on.
Certainly this is not what I was doing.
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vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
Yep, Vote: gkrieg13
I really don't like this vote from liopoil. I don't really like the haddock vote either. I think D3 is a point where you can't just sheep someone that you have a town read on.
Certainly this is not what I was doing.
I'm positive that's what it looks like. Saying yep while quoting another person and saying yep before you vote is about the sheepiest you can look
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I mean I was referencing haddock with the sheep a townie person part
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Agree with almost all of this
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
I've been thinking about this and it's tough. I'll also answer meli's question. The problem is that I think all the votes are bad votes, but that completely different from coming from scum. So:
Jan: Still hasn't specified why he thinks I'm scum, really. His questions were weird and he misconstrues what my posts mean a little. So that's a bit scummy.
Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.
RR: He didn't feel strongly enough to vote until after Teproc agreed, but that's just RR I think. He just wants his question to have meant something. Null to slight town, I guess.
J Reggie: A real cop-out vote, but honestly probably town. Too blatant for new scum, I think.
ADK: Unfortunate he's just going to leave his vote on town without saying anything the rest of the day. At least he tried to consider my reasoning though. Null, I suppose.
Ichi: His vote was the first time it made me think that there was a real chance I get lynched today, so pretty opportunistic. I'd say ADK's was even moreso though. I can understand his thought process the best though because we actually discussed, and well he has since quite sensibly unvoted, which I'm not sure scum would have taken the time to do. He also responded well to my questioning. Townread.
I am slightly biased to be more likely to townread those who seem to have considered more carefully.
Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time.
but I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon.
I wonder if this means that my reads are bad and I should feel bad.
vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
Yep, Vote: gkrieg13
I really don't like this vote from liopoil. I don't really like the haddock vote either. I think D3 is a point where you can't just sheep someone that you have a town read on.
Certainly this is not what I was doing.
I'm positive that's what it looks like. Saying yep while quoting another person and saying yep before you vote is about the sheepiest you can look
Okay, duh. But I had been saying for quite some time that I was between you and Witherweaver, and I agree with Witherweaver that his reread indicated that he was the town and you the scum. Haddock only voiced an opinion I already agreed with.
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Agree with Haddock*. I would have done it soon anyway.
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I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.
Iguana had him as scum. What made it look like bussing to you?
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sup
I think it's time for a rainbow.
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liopoil
gkrieg13
fontisian
silverspawn
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
A Drowned Kernel
Haddock
2.71828.....
Jan
Witherweaver
hm. I seem to be too nice recently. I remember reasons to townread all of those players. I do agree on the ADK thing, though. He's probably my preferred choice.
Then again, that feels kind of easy.
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I'll take a closer look at those ADK rereads other people have done...
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liopoil
gkrieg13
fontisian
silverspawn
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
A Drowned Kernel
Haddock
2.71828.....
Jan
Witherweaver
hm. I seem to be too nice recently. I remember reasons to townread all of those players. I do agree on the ADK thing, though. He's probably my preferred choice.
Then again, that feels kind of easy.
So basically from this you are saying there are three scum and a SK among me/haddock/Jan/ADK?
Really?
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iguanaiguana primarily focused on A Drowned Kernel, Teproc and 2.71828.
iguanaiguana also had (less) suspicion on Haddock and liopoil.
Interesting. I think 1 scum 2 town in the 3 scum leans is the most likely spread. That fits nicely.
Except that he had ADK as his primary target. That miiiight make ADK a bit townier.
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liopoil
gkrieg13
fontisian
silverspawn
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
A Drowned Kernel
Haddock
2.71828.....
Jan
Witherweaver
hm. I seem to be too nice recently. I remember reasons to townread all of those players. I do agree on the ADK thing, though. He's probably my preferred choice.
Then again, that feels kind of easy.
So basically from this you are saying there are three scum and a SK among me/haddock/Jan/ADK?
Really?
No, that would be a preposterous claim. I am saying that Each of those is a bit more likely to be scum individually than any other player.
Idk if there is a SK. I hope not, he'd be super hard to find..
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So, Jan:
Officer Booty reporting for duty!
I really need to apply different voices in my head when reading you guys.
If anyone wants to be a specific voice, let me know.
Who is the most likely person to die d1 regardless of their alignment?
Asking for a friend.
We got a jokester. Interesting question. Why did your friend want to know?
But if i vote roadrunner now it looks like omgus not like me trying to go for the easy (miss)lynch!
who would want that?
Vote : Roadrunner7671
So to do this, apparently. Some empty posts about voices, doesnt post much, comes back with a reason:
Hi! Sorry for not posting a lot so far.
Subbed into the mash on mu 2 days ago and it is kinda time consuming. and since this is a 7 day dayphase and mash has 36 hours dayphase, the pressure is a bit higher over there.
Will do some rereading in here now for a while.
I actually have some trouble with this forum in itself because the quotestacks are not well made. Whatever.
If you guys have questions i should be around for a while doing the read.
really? the game started going kinda strong .. well at least the rvs part.
I want to say i think roadrunner is my earliest townread of the rvs stage, IF he is a new player. Rly depends a bit on his meta and people might need to confirm or deny that read for me.
I thought his reaction to claim scum "hi everyone" after not doing so from the get go was slightly ballsy play. I got into the game thinking he is a new player, if that is the case then i think it is towny.
oh and while at it :
#218 - liopoil says we should not misslynch roadrunner today, do you mind explaining your townread at that point on him?
Moving on ...
Well you are still voting him.
just checked the pregame again. i thought i remembered him saying he was new and all that. he was only talking about hit meta. misremembered that. (i was right remembering him being afraid of being misslynched)
not that sure on the rr read anymore. still want an answer to why liopoil thought rr is town.
I am curious why both gkrieg and adk think the readslist wasnt too contrived?
I am fine with being spewed town from the get go, but believing Joga who played a single game with me has a solid townread on me after 2 posts of mine?!
Like .. he didnt give 2-3 leans in either direction he gave a fairly hard town and scumread and some leans.
Anyways would like them to talk about that for 30 seconds.
Moving on ...
Jan is seeming genuine to me so far, more or less. Thinking process seems fair enough given that he doesn't know anyone. Good point on Lio treating RR as a mislynch.
Melisandre/Seprix reads good and involved.
fonti being a copycat is kinda boring.
Her pointing out the rolehunting and the adk thing read towny.
i need some sort of reason for the liopoil thing, because that guy is not towny in my book.
i will do one better :
Vote: liopoil
I think silver involvement and him trying to guide with helping with metareads is kind of towny?!
I can see him faking this as scum, because if he doesn't do it someone else will, but in the end the people who don't have meta infos might look scummy for pushing on people who look scummy but are well in their town meta.
I also have a few rolereads if people are interested.
So some early reads. Not sure what the rolehunting is because I haven't read Fonti, but generally town does 'rolefishing' things more than scum does, and it's an easy attack for scum. I'm not sure I follow the last line of thought. More reads:
Melisandre
Seprix
Silverspawn
Fontisian
Roadrunner
Are the people i read town in this order .. non of them being a really strong townread and the bottom two being very weak leans.
adk
2.71828 (pure gut)
liopoil
being the scum leans for now.
i considered reading gkriegs reads on adk and seprix, but the formating was so bad that i decided to rather carve out my eyeballs with a wooden spoon. it was a fun time!
From now on i will try solving the game while flying blind. you can thank gkrieg for that!
Why is Meli so high? And why Silver?
As painful as it was to read gkriegs posts, the stream of consciousness style was reasonable towny.
Let's do the test!
Hey friends of the meta-verse!
Does gkrieg post in this style regardless of alignment, is it a town thing or just a new thing that you rarely see done by him regardless of alignment?
asking for a friend.
I mean a mean person would say that most of those post is rephrasing other peoples post without actually pushing new content in them.
(3 lines with addional content - 1 of them about mechanics, 1 about general mafia playstyles and 1 about the person he was reading at the time)
His conclusion is ok.
Talking about gkrieg :
"I kinda agree with him here that the reads list could have been taken as serious and actually gave him a lot of towncred regardless of whether it was real or not for some reason."
you said earlier you believed the list could have been real as well as the content. or rather that it wasnt "too contrived".
you sadly didnt react to my question about said list.
Why did you think the list might have been genuine?
Which reads were you able to comprehend or share at the time?
I'm guessing this is just Jan's style of playing/personality, but I'm starting to feel town on Jan.
So clearly, it seems Liopoil wants a Melis lynch. I'm okay with his lynch as well, but I am satisfied enough to also let him live.
Wait you went out of your conversation with melisandre saying you would prefer not to lynch him today, right?
I mean the gameday is still going for another 4-5 days or something so we have all the time in the world.
But why did liopoils analysis of gkriegs summary of your posts on melis play change your mind?
Could you try and use words with 4 or less characters, i am afraid otherwise i won't be able to follow you.
Like you give someone a day pass for reasons and a soon someone else wants to lynch said person you go back and say - "yes, we can!".
This is not 2008. this is the time to make dominion strategy great again. and you are somewhere not caring about anything but looking good?
If you want to look good. Buy a new wig
I like this post.
Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Asking the important questions. Some back and forth with people, apparently waffles is for waffling, like not standing rigid, like hedging.
Okay a big post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=603798;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041).
He's starting to remind me of.. Axxle maybe? Explains in more detail here what his point against Seprix is. Basically that Seprix changing his reads without anything to cause that change could be scum forgetting what their reads were. Well evidently it wasn't. However, scum making this case would likely make it stronger in the first place, not question, question, finally explain when people aren't following. Townie on Jan for this.
Jan says Seprix response is fair enough.. is still on Lio. You could see this as scum trying to see if a wagon can form, and it doesn't so he lets it drop. But like I said, it came about in a more townier manner. Jan is gone for a while.
Ohhhh, he was the guy that did this:
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.
If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.
That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?
Like I said some time ago, this is bad because it is a pretty empty post. Sounds like someone that feels that they need to be saying something to stay involved in the game. Plus the implicit 'hey I don't know if scum has daychat or not. Hey I don't even know how chat works for scum. I totally can't be scum, because you see, if I were, I would know these things. But I don't know them. Ergo, I cannot be scum. You see.'
I guess trying to look for coaching is fair enough, but I don't think I've ever seen evidence of true partner coaching. It's one of those things people say scum do but they never do.
Gives a gutread town on J Reggie, questions Lio, some back and forth with Font:
He already reacted to pressure. You'll notice my questions were asked a day the whole thing went down. I'm trying to move past the "you're scum" "no I'm not stage." Why aren't you?
Why would you say that i am not?
What did i do this game that would make you assume that i am not trying to push information and reactions in the thread?
Almost everything I did so far had a purpose and you should see that.
You might disagree with my methods/phrasing etc, but you should realize that what you are saying there is not true.
Really? Because all I see are joke questions these guys won't get and bad attempts at undermining me.
The same way you undermined me earlier?
Like I am saying that you are possible partners with that guy for that question, that doesn't mean you can't continue your game, can you?
People can make up their mind about that. You know i give reads like that more often than not lately so a read like that should not surprise you at all.
I don't think you actually react this way as town. This reaction is over the top and misrepresenting what i have done.
You could complain that I am not as active as I would be in other games we played, but you cannot say that I didn't try to push people into reactions/content
Like you calling me out for something while doing exactly the same. this time and last time?! what is going on with you?
Smallish 'fight'. Haven't read Font.. Jan seems okay with this. Font maybe slightly suspicious because it was a bad case, but if Font really is scum it's a "caught for the wrong reason" kind of thing. Will note for when I do that reread.
Some more rereads:
Anyways ..
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
Seprix
J Reggie
are the 4 town so far.
Roadrunner i thought earlier on, which was mostly gut. I explained it. The fact that several people said this is his townplay for other things, makes this most likely be right.
Seprixx,/Melisandre both felt towny in their conversation earlier on. I got a bit iffy later on about Seprix, because it felt like he changed his mind for no good reason. But his reaction to me pushing on that was good.
Melisandre seems to have an open mind. Kinda leaving his possibilities open a bit more than in the champs game (when he read people there he had a harder read most of the time). But i still like his approach here a lot.
Reggie .. i explained his latest post. liked it. the wording, using "us" when talking about town. if he is as much of a new player as i think he is, then that makes me think he is more likely town.
Silverspawn i thought towny early on .. but i have one problem with him. When he did his reread and all that the only thing i remember him pointing out about me was that he didn't get the "asking for a friend" line (which is a joke. someday you might get it)
And then reads me scummy for feeling weird, but he didn't point anything out that i did that he didn't like.
I would like for him to do that in the near future, just to see if there is something behind what he is saying.
I am curious what people think about Awaclus. They said he plays very self centric/defensive as either alignment. He did that this game, but was any of it indicative of anything?
And is Ichimaru Gin claiming town a thing that confirms him as town? Silver said something close to that.
This feels like a pretty natural progression of reads.. doesn't feel constructed, reads move around.
Gets criticized by SS for not voting Font even though he made points against Font. Jan justfies not moving his vote. A bigger post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=604403;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041) follows.
Small absence and then another big post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=604575;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041), which contains some summaries. A good amount of if X is A then Y is B contingencies, which I generally don't like. Says 'kill' instead of 'lynch' about Meli. I'm pretty sure we lynched someone for that once. Criticizes e for generally not being in depth in his reads.
Then e responds hey good stuff, then e says hey wait bad stuff, then e votes Jan, then Jan:
Coming back to take a glympse at possible reaction and feel like i hit a gold mine.
And this is how i outted a scum for you.
You are welcome.
Was not even hard. Nice try misrepresenting my reads in an attempt to copy what i did to your shallow readslist.
Vote: 2.71828.....
The right summar owuld have been
If ADK is scum then GKrieg looks bad for the summary and his "early read on him" while knowing that it was useless (because he knows he is someone to catch altegame not early).
That felt like more distancing than not.
If Lio is scum then Fonti looks bad for the possible coaching part.
I don't think ADK/Lio are scum together for the way ADK continued attacking Lio when he got pressured. DIdn't feel like a partner bussing to me.
You on the other hand are just one independent scumread and your first reaction was
"i know that guy is town, i read him town before let's continue with it"
But you had to switch because you realized my case is spot on and your attempt of undermining my readslist won't help, because i actually gave reasons why i read the people the way i do. You did not.
Goodnight and Goodbye son.
I like what Jan is doing here. Specifically the scum-would-know-I'm-town-so-react-with-townread thing.
Liopoil's Day One Lynchpool:
Jan
Seprix
Hydrad
Haddock
Teproc
gkrieg13
6 << 16, so this is a lot of progress. Happy with my current vote.
PPE: haha nice one
Yeah this is most likely the worst scum list i have seen all game. Not talking about me, but like .. You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
Just look at their post. They are just better. Sure there could be a scum between them. But that would be the hard scum to find, ebcause they are playing fairly well.
Hydrad is just a cop out. could be scum could be town, has no content.
I am split between you and "Number two", but he hardclaimed with his reaction while you might be just wrong on everything as town.
Of note here: Hydrad is on Lio's lynch list. If you're Hydrad's partner, you're probably more likely to put him somewhere in the 'would lynch' list, because he stands a decent chance of becoming the defacto lynch, and you don't want to be defending or ignoring it.
Do not understand that at all. ^
Can you explain how he just scumslipped?
It is not a slip.
But his reaction is completly ungenuine and the point of his reactionpost is only to undermind the reads i just gave as a mockery to what i did to his post.
The difference being that i pushed quite a lot of content with mine, while he gave vague nothings.
That together with him blindy townreading me from the get go, because he knew I am town.
Either he gives the townread for the list without reading it, which means he is bad (oh look a wall of text that has to be town) or he knows i am town because he is scum.
Or he reads it completly within the 3 minutes between our posts, but doesn't understand what he reads and just reads me town for what?
And then he switches the list i made and my accusation by absically just changing or names. nothing but a mockery. Which would be fine if it was accurate (like i did to fonti earlier), but it is just not.
Lynch me if you want. i gave you some outted mafia to lynch right away. Have fun.
Well now he sounds like Ashersky.
12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan
It's fine. I don't enjoy this game as much as I should, because you guys are so stuck up on your meta that you are unable to read anything new. Not faulting you for it because it is something most of you do (which means it is not only the scum between you).
If it comes to the point that i need to claim, then i will do that and leave you guys with my legacy if need be (you know some parts of it, but some things changed recently). Fairly busy at the moment with personal things, but we have like 24 hours or something till EoD, so that is more than enough time to resolve that part. (I don't see a lot of people siding with me, which makes it unlikely that anyone but me will be the lynch at the end of the day.
The sad part is that it will be the 2nd time that i actually get misslynched ever, and both games silver rolled scum. (@fonti I do not count the witchhunt where i suicided myself d1 as gambler, because I asked to get lynched to become an angel and noone at the time thought i was scum)
This sounds genuine.
Day is almost over, Jan is actually the leading wagon, second is e. Then Lio wagon ramps up, and Meli votes Jan, worth noting. This follows an earlier post with a "I almost want to vote Jan for this" type of thing.
Jan reacts to his wagon, unvotes. Jan criticizes his wagon, says people are mostly voting him because they don't know him, manages to get some people to unvote him. Like Meli (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=605193;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041)and J Reggie (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=605196;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041). I don't like either of those, really, not that I liked the votes on Jan, but the general tone feels like scum getting off a wagon that they know they will look bad for. I think this was one of the posts that made me want to vote J Reggie. Well I guess I was wrong there.
Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
Talk to me about the why.
I have seen you play one time. I know you can use words.
The are not as good as mine, but they are still words.
Haha.
Several more back and forths with Silver follow. Jan is still for e or Lio but hasn't voted yet. Why not just vote Lio here? He's at 6 (L-3). Okay he finally does a little later, puts Lio at L-2.
Makes a post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=605339;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612041) about what things mean if his scum reads do turn out scum. This is a post unlikely to come from scum. General Day 1 flow makes me want to lynch Lio. I should do his reread next.
Seprix puts Lio to L-1, RR unvotes, J Reggie votes, Jan unvotes, wants a claim. 5 seconds later Seprix unvotes, revotes after no claim, RR votes.. people scared about hammer but he's not even close.
Jan moves to e:
Vote: 2.71828.....
Instead of lio if people want to keep him alive for today.
I find this weird. Like, why not keep pushing Lio? There are enough people to lynch him if everyone would stop the vote/unvote dance. e doesn't happen, Hydrad flares up, and then Awaclus flares up and gets lynched. Jan ends up hammering:
Vote: Awaclus
I dislike it, but no lynch is not an option.
This is fair enough, but really the treatment of near-lynch Lio was odd. This could have been prevented by sticking with Lio. Really, no reason to unvote when he was at L-1. Yes derphammers are a thing, but scum is generally more careful and conscious about this than town.
General townie Day 1, up until the final hours.
Will move on to Day 2 next.
-
RR needs to elaborate about ADK's interactions. I don't want to put up my thoughts on that matter until RR has said something.
-
EDIT:
Add silverspawn to iguanaiguana's list of suspicions.
oh, there's this. Did he really suspect me? I forgot. Well, argument still applies.
{probabilities post}
I would agree if we knew that scum didn't know who the PRs are. As is, the chance for them to hit PRs so easily seems low enough for me to assume that they do know somehow. Which is also why I don't know about that SK theory.
Ah, WW did a reread of ADK. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg610468#msg610468) Very good.
-
mh, mixed. Something meh is that Teproc has called him obv!town. I am townreading WW, so that's something in his favor.
-
maybe haddock is better?
-
So I don't fully agree with WW on ADK, but I do largely agree with him on Jan. I also agree with font's argument on Jan. So he's even more out of the pool for today.
... not that that's particularly relevant.
-
Wait I had him as black? I think he was supposed to be green. Well he's green now.
-
I don't know what your crazy shades of green mean, ss
@Witherweaver, did you miss the part where I ended up advocating Hydrad's lynch? Also, I totally would have been derphammered, since the end-of-day was so crazy.
-
I'm also surprised the lio lynch isn't happening again. I still don't think he is townie and the fact that he is hard to lynch just makes it more scummy in my eyes
I think it has more to do with the fact that scum already are/were on my wagon.
-
EDIT:
Add silverspawn to iguanaiguana's list of suspicions.
oh, there's this. Did he really suspect me? I forgot. Well, argument still applies.
{probabilities post}
I would agree if we knew that scum didn't know who the PRs are. As is, the chance for them to hit PRs so easily seems low enough for me to assume that they do know somehow. Which is also why I don't know about that SK theory.
Ah, WW did a reread of ADK. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg610468#msg610468) Very good.
They probably knew about Seprix, which makes the other three plausible. Even if they did have a way of getting information, it is highly unlikely that they find four PRs if there only are 4. So this is why I think [as a neutral observer] that there are more.
-
One of the championship players made a post on Iguanaiguana/ADK, but I can't remember who.
Basically iguanaiguana kept mentioning how ADK was sort of scummy but he never tried to pick a wagon up. So he gets massive towncres once ADK gets lynched. And iguanaiguana wasn't super focused on this game, so he probably would not have thought about is rereading like that.
-
I don't know what your crazy shades of green mean, ss
green is towny
teal is slightly less towny
-
Still haven't had the time to go through my D1/D2 re-reads on the following slots (detailed explanations to add later):
gkrieg13
The good:-
"I think it's clear you haven't done anything memorable yet"
"Hydrad seems like a no information lynch"
"I don't like how ss starts a last minute wagon on Hydrad"
"I also don't like how Seprix and lio vote right after each other to follow onto the Hydrad wagon"
"I still think the Hydrad lynch would've been a bad idea"
"I think it would be fishier if he had reads coming into the day. Saying he has no scum reads seems townie to me."
"His desire for everyone to have personal text so he can reread them is also townie."
"I don't think there is anything here to make me want to lynch iguana over others today."
"I don't want an iguana lynch, and I'm the only one on lio."
The bad:-
"I like teproc so far. Also ADK is making the sense. The reads list doesn't seem too contrived to me"
"I don't know why but there just seems like there is something off in this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it"
"this reread seems scummy to me"
"You literally just described Awaclus."
"Have no idea what is going on but would be fine with a Seprix lynch at this point"
"Liopoil over Seprix, but would be fine with either"
"Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch. "
"Is there anyone I should look at in particular?"
"I also don't like fake votes. Scum points to Lio"
A Drowned Kernel
The good:-
"I'm usually automatically a little suspicious of people who claim to have a town read on me."
"I can point you to a few games where I got early pressure, both as town and as scum, if you're interested."
"I might sheep him on liopoil."
"One of my recent scum games, where I got lynched Day One:"
"Not putting a whole lot of her own reads out there, but the ones that she does are strong reads, which I think ends up as towny."
The bad:-
"Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS."
"His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there."
"I don't like the votes on Seprix."
"That said I don't particularly like what I've seen of gkrieg. Would be on my could lynch" list.""
"Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?"
"vote: liopoil. I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go."
"The easy explanation is that's because he's scum and his stances are fabricated, but it might be town and approaching the game differently than me."
"vote: liopoil looks good to me."
"Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?"
"vote: iguana. I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch."
Haddock
The good:-
"WEEEAAAK. I don't think this is unusual for Hydrad whatsoever."
"I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying."
The bad:-
"RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned."
"Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point."
"J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately."
"Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like. Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall."
"And I'm not sure what to make of it."
"Man I feel like this game only just started, I never have gotten into it, there's just too many people."
"For me it's liopoil = seprix > Hydrad > silver>>>>>e. Dunno where silver suddenly came from. I find seprixs playstyle generally scummy but have played with him twice so who the hell knows."
"[iguanaiguana: Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.]"
"The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall."
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Meli I do not understand why half the stuff you have down as bad for me is bad.
Iguana's stance on me for instance. Man he was scumreading me hard for ages. This was not distancing.
The really ridiculous thing is the last one. I mean what the hell. I was voting iguana. And I came up with the best reason I could to not vote iguana PRECISELY TO MAKE THE POINT THAT NO GOOD REASON EXISTED NOT TO LYNCH iguana. Like, if that's the only reason not to vote iguana, then everyone should vote him. I explained this to silver. You also need to read me more carefully with regards to my stance on seprix, but the way. My original read on him was null because I was scum in an an ongoing fruit ninja game and it would have affected that.
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And RR, if that's your interactions reason I don't think it's enough. Read ADK himself, his interactions with the flipped players are quite towny. Particularly Re. Hydradguana.
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Who do you support and why?
Link me to your answer if you already answered.
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I just reread ADK.
I would like RR to elaborate on this:
I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.
Right now would lynch e or lio, and MAYBE gkrieg.
e>lio>>>>gkrieg.
Adding to this now that RR has said something. I think ADK is towny.
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e seems carefree relaxed town to me. lio seems weird jumpy town to me. I know I use the opposite to say both are town, but well I think that's reasonable considering their personalities. So I don't get either of them.
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I don't know what your crazy shades of green mean, ss
@Witherweaver, did you miss the part where I ended up advocating Hydrad's lynch? Also, I totally would have been derphammered, since the end-of-day was so crazy.
I haven't read you yet. I've only seen some of your interactions with those I've reread.
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I don't know what your crazy shades of green mean, ss
@Witherweaver, did you miss the part where I ended up advocating Hydrad's lynch? Also, I totally would have been derphammered, since the end-of-day was so crazy.
I haven't read you yet. I've only seen some of your interactions with those I've reread.
And, you mean you would have derphammered yourself? Even so, risk of self hammer would never deter me from putting someone at L-1.
-
So Day 2.
Not a lot of posts from Jan. Starts off questioning people, responds to Lio about his end of Day 1 and why he voted Awaclus. Then this:
So reads list:
Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Slight Town
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Null
iguanaiguana
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So I think rereads should probably start with Teproc and ADK to see if I can put them in a stronger town category.
Then go to the slight scums
Then to the scums to make cases.
There is a guy with quite some votes on himself. You have him in the middle right next to me. Can you see him? Good.
So your plan right now is reading some people to maybe get a sure towncircle (good idea if you are fast enough to be done with it within 24/48 hours).
And then .. you go to the slight-scum/scum-pile to make a case .. at which point you still don't have an opinion on the guy in the middle that has half of the game voting on him.
I don't mind giving a sub some breathing room to get into the game, but not having him on your list of people to get a read on at this point?!
Do you mind telling me why that is this way?
Which is interesting. It's a fair question; it also preemptively makes Gkrieg look bad, which can only be intended if Jan is a partner.
Some more questioning, this time of Font, some conversing. Some off topic about music, goes back to Lio:
He was always in my lynchpool, I don't recall there ever being much momentum on his wagon.
I just reread it a little bit.
Silver just called out the name, lio, seprix and fonti jumped on it (in that order).
RR and Awaclus defended hydrad. I said it is a 0 information lynch, which made seprix unvote.
Awaclus is dead now (flipped town). RR is still pretty adamant on his townread on the hydrad-slot.
I am less sure. I personally would prefer the lio kill and then moving forward looking and the sub.
Day is long and full of terror, so we have time to decide.
I will do this for now :
Vote: liopoil
Some talk (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=608158;topic=14936.0;last_msg=612158)about the him v. e thing that happened on Day 1. Gkrieg saying that e looks good for it, but it turns out he didn't get it.
Questions Lio, asking him to provide explanations for posts. Either scumhunting or made to look like it; I'm leaning legitimate scumhunting.
Continues with his general argument against e from Day 1, that e's posts look like doing stuff but are actually lacking in content.
Mid to late Day 2 reads, after I joined:
Jan, do you still want to lynch e today? I'd be interested. If not, who do you want to lynch?
I am trying to finalize my opinion on e and liopoil at the moment.
Outside of those two silver is still in my pool of suspects (i am still curious why you think he is town).
Reggie is doing all he can to work himself into that list as well.
Roadrunner, Melisandre, Teproc-slot, Gkrieg are people i dont think i would to lynch. Haddock would be the lowest of the townreads, don't remember a lot he has done today.
Hydraslot / adk / seprix .. if someone makes a really good case maybe, but i havent seen anything convincing yet.
Not sure if there is someone i have not mentioned yet.
for now i will take a nap. let me know in skype when your internet is stable again.
Iguana/Hydrad is null, along with a town Seprix and a seemingly townie ADK. Would be a place to put a partner. Iguana does have a big wagon on him, which Jan doesn't really address here.
Does some more of the "these two have same/different alignment" that I don't really like. Then:
back.
upside 4 different painmeds and i get to visit the hospital every morning for a while to change bandages.
downside. cant use my right hand for a little while. i might need to get myself a girlfriend for the duration of this predicament.
anyways. should be able to play. slowly one handed. less input/spammy.
if faust deems my contribution as unworthy then he may decide to sub me out, but i think it is not needed.
unvote
also the reason i took a rather long time to get back into the game is because i was a bit unsure about some of my reads.
in other words, i decided that liopoil is town, which makes me reconsider on several things. and is also the reason i wanted him to explain the e read and/or look at e's list again.
because i want to evaluate if i was wrong on 1 person or two yesterday.
gone for now. have to visit another doctor to get more painkillers.
oh yeah it is a 2nd degree burn of 3 fingers of my right hand just as info for the curious people.
So changes his read on Lio. I don't quite get why. Scum motivation would be that.. he thought the tunneling would make him look bad? You could see some evidence of this change before, his post saying he was trying to finalize his position on Lio and e. I could see this as a little bit faked to make it look more like he's actually figuring stuff out (we tend to assign a good deal of towncred to changing your mind).
Comes in late to vote Iguana (note: he was null before but could be swayed by a good case):
vote: iguanaiguana
of the 4 people available it is ii > reggie > adk >>> fonti.
This puts Iguana at L-2 I think. The other wagons were J Reggie and ADK at 3 and Fonti at 2.
And that's Day 2. Day 2 for Jan looks worse than Day 1. There's possible partnership with Iguana; that vote could be bussing. And he had very little to say on Iguana before that.. I don't think he actually mentioned the townslip thing that Iguana tried to peddle.
Still a little townie, moving closer to null.
Day 3, some discussion of night kills. Nullish.
Going to take a break for a bit and try to get back to it later.
-
Silver, I reread Haddock's day 2, and there were some posts against iguana that echoed my thought process at the time. I'm vetoing a lynch on him.
-
... if you want to sway my opinion you have to give me a bit more.
-
... if you want to sway my opinion you have to give me a bit more.
I agree with this. I am still on the fence with haddock, but his last few posts have been a little bit townier, so he isn't my top lynch choice for today.
Also why do we have so many people not voting when we are this close to deadline? I feel like only having half of the people voting on the final day is pretty bad. Especially because some of the players won't be around at deadline. I think we are falling asleep as town. There haven't been that many votes at all today, and not much posting either.
I would say at this point that scum is probably in the lurkers, who right now in my eyes are Jan, RR, e, ADK, and Melis (surprisingly). Wow that list is a lot larger than I thought it would be. Maybe I'll have to look back at ADK and what he has done lately. I only remember anything from his D1.
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J Reggie has been killed in the night! He was Sherlock Holmes, the Consultant Detective!
If Detective means what it usually means that at least strongly implies the presence of a SK. I'll go check faust's standardized list.
He has basically just talked about this in his posts today. Nothing else has been particularly in relation to actual game stuff. He just votes for lio and kinda comments on game setup stuff.
I still just can't shake the fact that he was targeted by iguana, and I don't think that iguana targets one of his partners that way. Although I guess he could be an SK, in which case iguana didn't know that he was targeting scum with his rereads.
-
How do other people feel about my theory that ADK could be SK? The thing that is making him look townie is the way that iguana talked about him and targeted him. Clearly they aren't partners, but he could still be scum.
Actually for the people voting him, do you really think that he was partners with iguana? I mean when iguana was the major lynch wagon, do you really think that he would try to get a wagon going on one of his partners instead of trying to get one started on a townie?
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How do other people feel about my theory that ADK could be SK? The thing that is making him look townie is the way that iguana talked about him and targeted him. Clearly they aren't partners, but he could still be scum.
Actually for the people voting him, do you really think that he was partners with iguana? I mean when iguana was the major lynch wagon, do you really think that he would try to get a wagon going on one of his partners instead of trying to get one started on a townie?
Hmm I think it would make sense for him to be on a scumteam other than iguana's. He still could be iguana's partner though in my mind. You are right that basically all he does is vote for me and fluff.
I'm very open to lynching ADK but am nervous about it being gkrieg who advocates it.
I also agree with fontisian that Haddock should be off the table today (probably all subsequent days too) and actually am fine with Jan not being an option either. Currently scared that there are scum in {e, silverspawn, melisandre, RR, fontisian} after all, but probably not viable lynches today. And I'm a bad lynch, so I guess I should just focus on the three I've been suspecting all day.
-
Still haven't had the time to go through my D1/D2 re-reads on the following slots (detailed explanations to add later):
gkrieg13
The good:-
"I think it's clear you haven't done anything memorable yet"
"Hydrad seems like a no information lynch"
"I don't like how ss starts a last minute wagon on Hydrad"
"I also don't like how Seprix and lio vote right after each other to follow onto the Hydrad wagon"
"I still think the Hydrad lynch would've been a bad idea"
"I think it would be fishier if he had reads coming into the day. Saying he has no scum reads seems townie to me."
"His desire for everyone to have personal text so he can reread them is also townie."
"I don't think there is anything here to make me want to lynch iguana over others today."
"I don't want an iguana lynch, and I'm the only one on lio."
The bad:-
"I like teproc so far. Also ADK is making the sense. The reads list doesn't seem too contrived to me"
"I don't know why but there just seems like there is something off in this post, but I can't quite put my finger on it"
"this reread seems scummy to me"
"You literally just described Awaclus."
"Have no idea what is going on but would be fine with a Seprix lynch at this point"
"Liopoil over Seprix, but would be fine with either"
"Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch. "
"Is there anyone I should look at in particular?"
"I also don't like fake votes. Scum points to Lio"
A Drowned Kernel
The good:-
"I'm usually automatically a little suspicious of people who claim to have a town read on me."
"I can point you to a few games where I got early pressure, both as town and as scum, if you're interested."
"I might sheep him on liopoil."
"One of my recent scum games, where I got lynched Day One:"
"Not putting a whole lot of her own reads out there, but the ones that she does are strong reads, which I think ends up as towny."
The bad:-
"Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS."
"His reads didn't look that contrived to me, there was a lot of null on there."
"I don't like the votes on Seprix."
"That said I don't particularly like what I've seen of gkrieg. Would be on my could lynch" list.""
"Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?"
"vote: liopoil. I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go."
"The easy explanation is that's because he's scum and his stances are fabricated, but it might be town and approaching the game differently than me."
"vote: liopoil looks good to me."
"Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?"
"vote: iguana. I can dig it, especially since he's so keen on setting me up for a mislynch."
Haddock
The good:-
"WEEEAAAK. I don't think this is unusual for Hydrad whatsoever."
"I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying."
The bad:-
"RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned."
"Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point."
"J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately."
"Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like. Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall."
"And I'm not sure what to make of it."
"Man I feel like this game only just started, I never have gotten into it, there's just too many people."
"For me it's liopoil = seprix > Hydrad > silver>>>>>e. Dunno where silver suddenly came from. I find seprixs playstyle generally scummy but have played with him twice so who the hell knows."
"[iguanaiguana: Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.]"
"The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall."
I wish we had the conclusions to these points.
-
How do other people feel about my theory that ADK could be SK? The thing that is making him look townie is the way that iguana talked about him and targeted him. Clearly they aren't partners, but he could still be scum.
Actually for the people voting him, do you really think that he was partners with iguana? I mean when iguana was the major lynch wagon, do you really think that he would try to get a wagon going on one of his partners instead of trying to get one started on a townie?
Hmm I think it would make sense for him to be on a scumteam other than iguana's. He still could be iguana's partner though in my mind. You are right that basically all he does is vote for me and fluff.
I'm very open to lynching ADK but am nervous about it being gkrieg who advocates it.
I also agree with fontisian that Haddock should be off the table today (probably all subsequent days too) and actually am fine with Jan not being an option either. Currently scared that there are scum in {e, silverspawn, melisandre, RR, fontisian} after all, but probably not viable lynches today. And I'm a bad lynch, so I guess I should just focus on the three I've been suspecting all day.
I just can't get past the fact that iguana could've tried to start a wagon on anyone, and I think he would pick the scummiest townie, instead of one of his partners to start a case and try to get it to stick. I mean if you look at the way that he tunneled ADK, I just really can't see that they were partners.
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Everyone should agree to switch back to lio if we haven't lynched Awaclus with a minute to go.
Okay I'm looking back at the end of day one and this is the first noteworthy thing I see. What's interesting is that Jan, fontisian, and ichimaru gin combine to hammer awaclus in 23 seconds just before one minute to go. If I didn't know better I'd say that they were liopoil's scumbuddies, so huh. But since I know that's false, it's interesting that Jan chose to hammer awaclus even though he had been wanting to lynch me all day. I suppose that's mildly scummy. I guess this 1-minute switch probably would not have happened though. It does strengthen my townread on Haddock though, because scum doesn't really prefer one mislynch over another.
This wasn't what I went back to D1 for though...
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Everyone should agree to switch back to lio if we haven't lynched Awaclus with a minute to go.
Okay I'm looking back at the end of day one and this is the first noteworthy thing I see. What's interesting is that Jan, fontisian, and ichimaru gin combine to hammer awaclus in 23 seconds just before one minute to go. If I didn't know better I'd say that they were liopoil's scumbuddies, so huh. But since I know that's false, it's interesting that Jan chose to hammer awaclus even though he had been wanting to lynch me all day. I suppose that's mildly scummy. I guess this 1-minute switch probably would not have happened though. It does strengthen my townread on Haddock though, because scum doesn't really prefer one mislynch over another.
This wasn't what I went back to D1 for though...
See bolded above. Scumslip?
Actually maybe I just don't understand, but from what it sounds like, it is a scum slip
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Vote Count 3.3
liopoil (1): A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): liopoil
2.71828..... (2): gkrieg13, Haddock
Not Voting (6): silverspawn, Melisandre, 2.71828....., Jan, fontisian, Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends June 20 at 10 am forum time. That's in 22.5 hours.
Also this is still the current vote count as far as I checked. So what gives? fewer than half of the people are voting.
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Actually maybe I just don't understand, but from what it sounds like, it is a scum slip
No, this is most definitely not a slip. Read again.
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So I just reread it, and now I get what he is saying. and I guess I agree with it. I mean obviously you can't really coordinate a triple hammer in 27 seconds I don't think, so I'm not sure I agree with it.
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So I just reread it, and now I get what he is saying. and I guess I agree with it. I mean obviously you can't really coordinate a triple hammer in 27 seconds I don't think, so I'm not sure I agree with it.
Wow just read what I wrote. I don't agree with it. I just was writing down my thought process while watching an incredibly close basketball game.
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Okay wow, half the people opposing the Hydrad lynch day one are confirmed town.
Yeah, not a slip, just like all the others this game. I don't even believe that iguana slipped really.
So I just reread it, and now I get what he is saying. and I guess I agree with it. I mean obviously you can't really coordinate a triple hammer in 27 seconds I don't think, so I'm not sure I agree with it.
Certainly not coordinated, but they all chose Awaclus over me, especially Jan.
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the other half is probably the scum team, then. Who is the other half?
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the other half is probably the scum team, then. Who is the other half?
Jan, Roadrunner. It's weird though, not as outright scummy as I suspected.
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All right, lets do this.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
Day 2 Final Vote Count
iguanaiguana (8): silverspawn, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Jan, iguanaiguana, Seprix, 2.71828.....
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
fontisian (2): Melisandre, liopoil
Not Voting (1): fontisian
Plenty of space for scum still on that Awaclus lynch. I think liopoil is the best bet today.
Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet.
People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
People who have stated any good reason to suspect iguana recently: liopoil, J Reggie
Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.
So you're not IC?
With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.
Nice totally-not-wall-of-text.
Increasingly feeling like there is no alternatie to iguana unless he shows up soon and does something.
Lynched Awaclus, defended iguana. I have a tendency to defend scum and lynch town. I think liopoil could be that person
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and we need wagons
vote: liopoil
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Woah, I do have a lot of townreads on people off wagon.
I'm willing to reconsider liopoil. My town read is based solely on the theory that his scum self would be more collected and calculated than what he has shown here. That might not be correct.
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Alright, vote: liopoil
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the problem is that I'm going to sleep soon, and won't be there for a while...
let's see how many hours to deadline.
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In 11:12. That's not good. I guess I can check in right before the deadline, but not in between.
Which means that I should find the best place for my vote, which may not be liopoil.
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well I think I will vote liopoil when I go to bed, seeing as the deadline is 7AM my time and I won't have a chance to be up for that long before the deadline. It seems like the best wagon on one of my scum reads.
vote: liopoil
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that is L-2
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No... this is dumb
vote: ADK
so I'll be back in 6 to 7 hours (which is not right before the deadline), and will then have sparse access for a short time. Enough to change my vote. Won't be there right before the deadline, then.
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Day One Hydrad Wagon (and other things):
Silverspawn and I are alone voting for Jan. SS switches to Hydrad, I follow (I am a 7/9 votes)
Seprix shrugs and votes, fontisian literally sheeps
Jan and Roadrunner immediately voice dissent:
Rather lynching Hydra than noone, but he is the best misslynch as well as bustarget, there is no info to be gained from the lynch.
I'd rather lynch no one than Hydrad. There's no information and I don't think he's scum.
And if he's a PR, it's likely he won't come online in time to claim before he's lynched or before we hit the deadline.
J Reggie says no thanks, Seprix changes his mind
Ichi and Haddock slowly jump on
RR is FREAKING OUT
Seprix/Jan try voting for e, Awaclus ignores everything and votes Seprix
ADK shows up and votes for me, says nothing of Hydrad.
I decide Seprix is more viable than Hydrad
Melisandre doesn't like the lynch bc he's absent
Haddock says there's too much Hydrad resistance (right!) and gkrieg finally shows up and pathetically says Hydrad is no-information.
I go back to Hydrad. Now we each have 5 votes.
ADK proposes Awaclus
We lynch Awaclus
ADK actually comes off really bad here. Hydrad totally could have been lynched. Teproc is just gone. Melisandre and gkrieg are also scummy
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and we need wagons
vote: liopoil
and we need wagons
vote: liopoil
Please actually read what happened, it's much more insightful. And now I remember you wree gone at the end of day 1 too.
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e's vote for me is just so... strange. I don't get it.
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well I think I will vote liopoil when I go to bed, seeing as the deadline is 7AM my time and I won't have a chance to be up for that long before the deadline. It seems like the best wagon on one of my scum reads.
vote: liopoil
Are we going to be doing this all over again?
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Right now, my want to lynch list is:
ADK, e, liopoil.
I would also be happy with a haddock lynch, but that doesn't look like it is happening.
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well I think I will vote liopoil when I go to bed, seeing as the deadline is 7AM my time and I won't have a chance to be up for that long before the deadline. It seems like the best wagon on one of my scum reads.
vote: liopoil
Are we going to be doing this all over again?
Well the big thing is that I don't think we are going to get a lynch in today just based off the activity that we have had so far today. There aren't a lot of people present, so I want to end up on the biggest wagon of the three people that I want to lynch today and that happened to be your wagon for the moment.
I think now it would be better to vote for ADK, as I think his lynch is actually more likely to go through.
vote: ADK
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Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
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Realistically I will probably end up voting for ADK too. I'll be back some undetermined amount of time before the deadline, at least an hour I hope.
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Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
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Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
He was already voting for ADK. I'm not sure why he does this.
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I really don't know what to think of this. gkrieg and silverspawn just sheeped me onto liopoil because someone else gave them an excuse to vote for liopoil, but then decide that sheeping me is bad.
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I really don't know what to think of this. gkrieg and silverspawn just sheeped me onto liopoil because someone else gave them an excuse to vote for liopoil, but then decide that sheeping me is bad.
I think it was more of just end of day close to deadline stuff
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Everyone should agree to switch back to lio if we haven't lynched Awaclus with a minute to go.
Okay I'm looking back at the end of day one and this is the first noteworthy thing I see. What's interesting is that Jan, fontisian, and ichimaru gin combine to hammer awaclus in 23 seconds just before one minute to go. If I didn't know better I'd say that they were liopoil's scumbuddies, so huh. But since I know that's false, it's interesting that Jan chose to hammer awaclus even though he had been wanting to lynch me all day. I suppose that's mildly scummy. I guess this 1-minute switch probably would not have happened though. It does strengthen my townread on Haddock though, because scum doesn't really prefer one mislynch over another.
This wasn't what I went back to D1 for though...
Hi. Jan hammered Awaclus because a lynch is better than a no lynch. Are you saying he should have tried to convince people with 20 seconds left in the Day?
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I oppose the ADK lynch, as gkrieg has a point about iguana's push making them unlikely partners, and that lowers his overall odds of being scum.
Like, even if there are two scum teams, ADK is unlikely to be on one, whereas liopoil could be on both.
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Vote liopoil
Reminder: make sure we lynch
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Vote Count 3.4
liopoil (3): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828....., fontisian
A Drowned Kernel (3): Roadrunner7671, silverspawn, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): liopoil
2.71828..... (1): Haddock
Not Voting (3): Melisandre, Jan, Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends June 20 at 10 am forum time. That's in 6.5 hours.
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i am here will be here for most of the remaining time and look at the part where adk and ii are not on the same team for a minute and other things that happened.
I just hope enough people will be around to lynch one way or another.
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Just started watching the newest game of thrones episode. the next hour might still be a bit slow depending on how good the episode is.
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vote: lio I guess.
Not my favourite thing ever but I think he's better than ADK
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Here for even shorter than expected.
I thoguht you'd be close to lynch? 3/3? Not switching, then.
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welp. Good Luck! Lynch scum!
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It's 4/3. So if you want a lynch you should probably switch so we have an l-1
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Hey. Non voters. Put some fucking votes down before the deadline.
I'm going back to sleep. Jan, make sure there's a lynch, preferably on lio. Thank.
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I will try. I am around and trying to get through the d1 votes at the moment. have a giant post with a lot of votes but didn't have the time to dive through them yet.
Or rather I am in the middle of that.
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Hey. Non voters. Put some fucking votes down before the deadline.
I'm going back to sleep. Jan, make sure there's a lynch, preferably on lio. Thank.
Thanks for posting this - it puts my mind to rest.
[Re-reading D2 for the fifth time I thought you were too confident on the iguanaiguana wagon/lynch]:
"You'd best come up with a good reason if you want to fight this lynch."
"I've found a likely mafia in iguana. And I want a fucking useful flip. Get on board or get out of the way."
"Call iguana town for me. Give me a reason you don't want him to be lynched."
[Seprix: "You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town."]
But you are exerting the same aggressive tone here, thus, a it's playstyle thing [moreover, I doubt you would be bussing for the 2nd night in a row]
Re: liopoil, I don't see him as mafia-scum, as I don't think he'd play like obv-mafia. Try to sell me on other/SK-scum though.
I'm trapped within the feels I got through my D1/D2 re-read: thus, would only vote in A Drowned Kernel, Haddock or gkrieg13 today.
Vote: A Drowned Kernel
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I will post a really long boring post in a second .. pure votemovement without any analysis just yet. don't want to lose it and I am not sure if i will get to all of it right now.
There are some movements i dislike a lot to say the least.
Maybe i will be able to talk more about it. I think i prefer adk lynch over lio but i am not 100% yet.
Oh and the reason i townread lio late yesterday was because i couldn't write a lot with my injured hand ( it is good again for the most part) and i felt changing my read like that mgiht be good enough that scum might think i have a green on lio.
Well Reggies soft on the seprix green was 10 times harder i guess.
Anyways .. I didn't die which makes me feel iffy about all that. I just have some trouble finding lios partners, unless he is a scum pr and they bussed the other guy to protect him (which makes silver a possible partner).
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4-4. I'll be here for a bit but no switching!
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Will look at the d1 votes again for a little bit to see how they shifted and who shifted when and all that.
This might be a bit of clutter for people who don't do votes.
Starting at the point where liopoil got a case on himself way before Eod at the height of his wagon and moving from there until Eod.
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (2): Awaclus, silverspawn
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (5): Jan, Teproc, Roadrunner7671, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel, Ichimaru Gin
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (3): Melisandre, liopoil,
Ichimaru Gin unvotes
Roadrunner7671 votes Fontisian
silverspawn votes Jan
liopoil votes Jan
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (4): Jan, Teproc, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....
fontisian (1): Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad votes fontisian
2.71828..... votes Hydrad
2.71828..... votes Jan
Jan votes 2.71828.....
Fontisian votes 2.71828..... [vote might have not counted but the intention is clear]
ADK votes 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (1): Awaclus
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (2): Roadrunner7671, Hydrad
Jan (4): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
[the official votecount here was wrong because fonti voted e before, unless the vote didn't count for some reason]
Seprix votes Silverspawn
Fontisian votes 2.71828.....
Haddock votes Jan
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (2): Roadrunner7671, Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Roadrunner7671 votes liopoil
Roadrunner7671 votes Seprix
Roadrunner7671 votes Silverspawn
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (1): Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Haddock votes liopoil
Hydrad votes liopoil
Awaclus votes liopoil
ADK votes liopoil
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, fontisian
liopoil (5): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Jan (4): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828.....
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Melisandre votes Jan
Jan unvotes
gkrieg13 votes liopoil
Roadrunner7671 votes liopoil
Melisandre unvotes Jan
ADK votes 2.71828.....
Fontisian votes Seprix
2.71828..... votes Seprix
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Seprix (2): fontisian, 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre, J Reggie
Seprix votes 2.71828......
Fontisian votes 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (3): A Drowned Kernel, Seprix, fontisian
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre, J Reggie
Jan votes liopoil
Silverspawn votes Hydrad
liopoil votes Hydrad
Seprix votes Hydrad
fontisian votes Hydrad
Vote Count 1.14
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, liopoil, Seprix, fontisian
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
J Reggie votes Silverspawn
Seprix unvotes
Seprix votes liopoil
Roadrunner7671 unvotes
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Jan, Seprix
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (3): silverspawn, liopoil, fontisian
silverspawn (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, Roadrunner7671
J Reggie votes liopoil
Jan unvotes
Seprix unvotes
Seprix votes liopoil
liopoil votes Seprix
J Reggie votes Seprix
Ichimaru Gin votes Hydrad
Roadrunner7671 votes liopoil
Seprix unvotes
Vote Count 1.16
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., liopoil, J Reggie
Hydrad (3): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin
Not Voting (3): Melisandre, Jan, Seprix
Haddock votes Hydrad
ADK votes liopoil
Jan votes 2.71828.....
Seprix votes 2.71828.....
Awaclus votes Seprix
Vote Count 1.17
liopoil (5): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (4): 2.71828....., liopoil, J Reggie, Awaclus
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Haddock
2.71828..... (2): Jan, Seprix
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
liopoil votes Hydrad
Won't finish the rest right now. I think the most important movement regarding liopoil is already in there.
Sorry for the spam, but we need this later anyway.
Just do not quote the whole thing unless you really need to.
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2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (1): Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Haddock votes liopoil
Hydrad votes liopoil
Awaclus votes liopoil
ADK votes liopoil
2.71828..... (3): gkrieg13, Jan, fontisian
liopoil (5): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, A Drowned Kernel
Jan (4): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828.....
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
Melisandre votes Jan
Jan unvotes
gkrieg13 votes liopoil
Roadrunner7671 votes liopoil
Melisandre unvotes Jan
ADK votes 2.71828.....
Considering that Silver tried to get a cfd going closer to eod on a now confirmed mafia goon means he as scum would only do that if lio is more important to have alive another night or two.
So lio is more likely a scum pr if he is scum. (Silver was one of the few people not voting him, which would make him a likely partner)
The way Hydrad jumps on the wagon might be w/w but him pushing the misslynch of a important scum partner is less likely.
and we are close to deadline.
Vote: liopoil
That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.
that was his post when voting for lio. It is not impossible that they are scumbuddies, but in that case lio is a goon or at least not that important, ebcause that vote was helping a lot in getting that wagon going.
Ok so .. if I think lio is more likely town then i look at ADKs vote.
vote: liopoil looks good to me.
He jumps on the wagon with everyone else and once the lio wagon is going good he jumps ship to vote in the middle of nowhere.
His reasoning was that one of my posts convinced him.
Jan actually has a really good point about the way these weapons formed.
vote: e
I think ADK and lio are not w/w because that unvote would love him all the cred a possible vote would get him. And the lio wagon was so likely at the time.
I don't think a partner that commits to a bus unvotes without trying to save his teammate.
If ADK is scum unvoting to look good because he believes lio will die and he knows lio will flip town, that makes sense.
You might argue why does he vote in the first place when I was the counterwagon, which is the only thing that makes me pause a bit, because he voted both my counterwagons.
This is not the most solid of cases. I think lio and ADK are not both scum because of the way ADK votes there. If one flips scum then the other is town.
I think ADKs unvote on lio there looked weird, weak and he didn't actually push hard on the e lynch as a coutnerwagon, just blanco voted.
If he believes what I said before, then he would try to rally town, but he didn't care at all.
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Vote: A Drowned Kernel
I think this is the better lynch right now.
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votes should be
5 - ADK
4 - lio
needs 6 to lynch.
Day ends in 2(?) hours i think.
I am around if people want to talk about things. Might look a bit more into wagons in the meantime or play some Path of Exile.
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Vote: adk
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Let's chat.
[Or anyone else who is here].
I feel like I'm voting on PoE to a degree - I don't want to vote from my comfortable pile (i.e likely not group-scum/mafia-pile).
I cannot see mafia-liopoil. Look at his posts:-
Shame-less chainsaw defence of Hydrad/Iguana:
"Hydrad wagon should move to seprix"
"With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less."
Reminding us he should be insta-lynched due to his actions/desperate roleclaim:-
"I thinj the awaclus lynch was largely my fault for causing the ridiculous end-of-day."
"Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet."
"If it comes down to "claim or we lynch you" then I will be lynched."
Has anyone who has played with liopoil seen him play a scum-game like this before?
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Interesting remark from iguanaiguana:
Agree with almost all of this
Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?
I've been thinking about this and it's tough. I'll also answer meli's question. The problem is that I think all the votes are bad votes, but that completely different from coming from scum. So:
Jan: Still hasn't specified why he thinks I'm scum, really. His questions were weird and he misconstrues what my posts mean a little. So that's a bit scummy.
Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.
RR: He didn't feel strongly enough to vote until after Teproc agreed, but that's just RR I think. He just wants his question to have meant something. Null to slight town, I guess.
J Reggie: A real cop-out vote, but honestly probably town. Too blatant for new scum, I think.
ADK: Unfortunate he's just going to leave his vote on town without saying anything the rest of the day. At least he tried to consider my reasoning though. Null, I suppose.
Ichi: His vote was the first time it made me think that there was a real chance I get lynched today, so pretty opportunistic. I'd say ADK's was even moreso though. I can understand his thought process the best though because we actually discussed, and well he has since quite sensibly unvoted, which I'm not sure scum would have taken the time to do. He also responded well to my questioning. Townread.
I am slightly biased to be more likely to townread those who seem to have considered more carefully.
Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time.
but I'm scumreading ADK out of this lio wagon.
How do you read that: in terms of how he was reading both liopoil and ADK?
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That was the hammer.
liopoil (3): A Drowned Kernel, fontisian, Haddock
A Drowned Kernel (6): Roadrunner7671, silverspawn, gkrieg13, Melisandre, Jan, 2.71828.....
gkrieg13 (1): liopoil
Not Voting (1): Witherweaver
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oh wow my vote wasn't needed. Just got here
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There it is! ;)
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Let's hope he's an SK or other scumteam because that was a bit too easy and I still could have been lynched. Particularly jan and e get townpoints if he's scum I think. I would have swotched to ADK, but WW would probably have voted for me and that would have been 6.
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I guess fontisian, Haddock, and WW are all in scummy off-wagon spots if he has scumpartners, but two of those people are very towny. Maybe I should just wait for the flip.
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If he's town I'm not sure what I conclude. Probably that gkrieg is scum? Or whoever made us lynch outside of {WW, gkrieg} where I still think there is scum.
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Crappy time for the forum to misbehave. I've been trying to post this (among other things) for ages.
So ADK is hammered? Hmm. I don't think I like that we didn't let him claim. Or the lynch in general. But I guess it could be worse.
If ADK is town, e's hammer is pretty bad. There was still lots of time.
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Are lynches without roleclaims common on here?
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Vote Count 1.14
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, liopoil, Seprix, fontisian
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
So lets play with this votal a bit. This is liopoils wagon as its height.
A few what if scenarios to play around with.
For starters we can expect a mafia team of 4. (I will not play around with possible smaller scumteams for now because that is rather unless we get hints that guide us in that direction)
If liopoil is scum then :
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, liopoil, Seprix, fontisian
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
Just look at Teproc trying to get the lio wagon going again and Haddock jumping on that. He basically gave the wagon its fuel.
I explained why ADK is almost always town in that world, because he would not jump of a partners wagon the way he did, when lio is almsot always going down
Silverspawn and fonti both never voted for liopoil d1 (i think), which would make them possible partners.
Them both voting for Hydrad indicates that liopoil had more value to them than hydrad. either because he is less likely to get lynched later on, or because he is a pr.
I am unsure on the 2nd part ..
I think it is unlikely that gkrieg and e are partners because of es first readlist where he attacked/scumread gkrieg 3 or 4 times total, mostly for leaving the rvs vote on him.
So at most 1 between them regardless of the worlds.
Roadrunner and Melisandre are kind of wildcards.
So that is world 1 :
In that world fonti continued to bus hydrad d2 and then went over to bus lio today. (if she is scum)
While silver would have bussed d1/2 and then now move on to go for ADK.
e and gkrieg are split over both wagons today.
Melisandre and RR both voting ADK today.
Let's check out the other world ..
Well that was the hammer I think, posting this before night time begins. not sure if i can complete the 2nd world in time.
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wanted to post that for like 30 minutes but the forum decided to be awful. was about to do the same for adk scum, but then e hammered.
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): A Drowned Kernel, fontisian, Haddock
A Drowned Kernel (6): Roadrunner7671, silverspawn, gkrieg13, Melisandre, Jan, 2.71828.....
gkrieg13 (1): liopoil
Not Voting (1): Witherweaver
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
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It has been two weeks since the explosion, and now John is on his own. Three officers had died in the explosion, including Sgt Donovan. Miraculously, Sherlock survived, but lay in a hospital comatose and under constant guard; the government was unlikely to let him leave now that they tracked him down.
The incident has been all over the news, but it seems that no progress has been made so far in finding whoever set this underground lab up. The explosion had also blown most of the evidence away, which had no doubt been the intent.
John stares at the wall across, with the smiley face. Mrs Hudson has allowed him to stay in Sherlock's room, "until his recovery". John doubts that Sherlock will ever return. This time, there is no way out. John looks at the pictures on the table in front of him, pictures shot at the crime scene, courtesy of Lestrade. He knows it is up to him now to find the killers, but he only feels numb and empty.
After a while, John notices that he has received a message. The sender: unknown. The only text: "I needs to talk to you. You know where."
A Drowned Kernel has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Officer!
Night 3 starts now and ends June 22 at 9 am forum time. All night actions due within 24 hours.
THREAD LOCKED!
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John enters the abandoned industrial complex, remembering the last time he came. Is she really alive? It may well be a trap, but John is beyond caring. Let them catch him! Suddenly, he hears footsteps behind him, and whirls around.
"Molly? What are you doing here?"
"Someone... invited me. Something to do with Sherlock, they said. It wasn't you?"
"Something to do with Sherlock... indeed."
On the opposite side of the hall, another woman enters. Her hair is cut short, but there is no mistaking. John clears his throat. "Miss Adler."
"Please," she says. "Irene."
"What brings you here?"
"Revenge."
Molly and John drive to Baker Street together. "Do you really think we can find who did this?" Molly asks.
"We don't have any more information on who did this. If what Irene says is true, then the Golem is back in London. But he's just a henchman. He is not one to set up a secret lab."
"I... may have something." Molly says. "I did not think it important, after everything that happened. But I got the test results from your dead cat. Apparently, she was indeed sick. But not with kitty flu."
The taxi arrives, and Molly and John get out. "What then?"
"Ebola."
John opens his mouth to answer, but that moment, his gaze falls on Baker Street 221b. Yellow barrier tape hangs before it. No... Then he sees Mrs Hudson, standing in front of the building. "Mrs Hudson! What happened here?"
gkrieg13 has been killed! He was Bill Wiggins, the Mafia Even-Night (Ninja Bus Driver)!
Jan has been killed! He was a Vanilla Officer!
Melisandre has been killed. He was a Vanilla Officer!
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (7): liopoil, fontisian, silverspawn, Roadrunner7671, Haddock, 2.71828....., Witherweaver
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 starts now and ends June 29 at 9 am forum time.
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Wowowow. I mean it makes sense for there to be lots of deaths in a 16-player game but sheesh.
Okay, so I was right about gkrieg! That means we don't have to waste a lynch on him. Still, with 7 players I'm not sure if we can afford another mislynch (?).
Gkrieg was an even night bus driver, which I guess was only night two. So he may have switched one of the deaths I guess. What does ninja mean?
Seems terribly unlikely that those were the only two mafia, so today we ought to find another.
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Well, I took notes over the night. Some are moot now but I'll post them anyway.
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The good thing that I only have to read 6 people! In no particular order:
Haddock is still town I think
E is really towny
Witherweaver isn't as scummy anymore
fontisian who knows really
silverspawn is towny
Roadrunner might be scummy, need to find out
That's just gut before having re-read much at all, very liable to change.
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Finishing up Jan reread:
Analyzes the end-of-day-1 Hydrad push. Is gone a good chunk of the day, comes back and proposes a planned time for some real-time discussion. Comes back closer to deadline. Seems to imply that his Lio town read was a ruse. A big post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph...12329#msg612329) compiling votes, followed by some analysis (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph...2332#msg612332). The effort is good, comes to the conclusion that ADK is morely scum than Liopoil based on Hydrad's late vote on Lio. This is a good point; Hydrad has no votes on him here, so not a likely position on bus for town cred. Hydrad could easily jump on Jan or e, but chooses the up-and-coming Lio wagon instead (had two votes and one stated willingness). Reasoning seems good.
Jan votes for ADK in the next post, putting him at L-1. He had the choice for ADK or Lio at L-1 here. e hammers shortly after, and Jan does some what-if analysis, which becomes mooted by the hammer.
Overall Jan looks townier than Day 2. If he's scum I guess he's doing some good work to look critical. Still a little iffy with his treatment of Hydrad/Iguana. I'd put him on slight-to-mid Town.
Still to read: Lio, e, Font, Melisandre, Haddock, Silverspawn. I guess I should do Lio next.
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Lio D1:
Starts of jokey, fine, null.
r218: Dislike, use of 'mislynch' implies RR is town; not evident even now, let alone early on D1. Scum more likely to strong townread RR early.
r366: Asks for scum Seprix games, I get an off feel from this post. Seems somehow disingenuous
r367: Criticizes ADK votes; I tend to agree with Lio here
r368: Votes Seprix; okay, kind of set it up two posts ago
r439: Defends his use of 'mislynch' on RR from before.. okay, I still don't like the first post
r444: Claims a gut town read on RR; I don't like it
r446: Votes Teproc for voting J Reggie. What gives.
r448: Weird post in which he unvotes Teproc while still kind of saying he's scum
r450: Town lean towards RR, J Reggie, Jan, ADK, Awaclus, scum leans on Seprix, font, Melisandre. Awaclus is a town lean for being 'Classic Awaclus', which is pretty bad. Also says he's town on SS in the next post.
r465: Explains his Teproc vote as a result of his 'next person to vote J Reggie is scum' thing from RVS. I'm not really sure what he was going for here. Though that do a cryptic thing for reactions is probably townier from Lio.
A few .. confrontational? posts follow.
r582: Continues generally argumentative or instigative including some self-aware metaposting.
Some back-and-forth with Ichi, gets Ichi to unvote.
r623: Analyzes wagon; Jan slight scum, Teproc slight scum, RR null to slight town, J Reggie town, ADK null, Ichi town, some more selfawareness.
r631: More reads, Jan and ADK have moved towards wanting to lynch, Meli has moved into don't want to lynch.
r671: Votes Jan
r697: Gives a lynch pool: Jan, Seprix, Hydrad, Haddock, Teproc, Gkrieg. Of course if you're Hydrad's partner you toss him in 'willing to lynch', but even as town you don't have a big reason to oppose it. Null here.
r698: Interesting, points against Lio being Hydrad's partner with the way he mentions him here.
Continues to argue towards Jan lynch
r840: Responds to Hydrad voting him. As I mentioned before (in regards to Jan pointing it out, I think), Hydrad voting for Lio here points against them being partners.
r845: More of the calling himself out on things before anyone else can. I don't really know what to make of this tactic.
r962: Voted Hydrad while calling his wagon terrible. Now this feels more like a bus; Lio now looks like he's going to be the lynch and goes for distancing. Also has a bit of a "caught for the wrong reasons" feel.
r969: More self-awareness, would be more compelling if it wasn't Lio himself stating this. Well, he does have a point; his posts are more quick and reactive instead of the carefully constructed we expect from scum. On the other hand he shows here he's aware of that. Should maybe look back to Dice Mafia. Who has the time though? :(
r970: Argues for lynching lurkers; well if Hydrad was a bus he's doubling down on it.
Continues to argue towards Hydrad
r995: This is sounding town. "I'm town, and useful, so I am a terribad lynch".
r1023: Moves to Seprix when Hydrad lynch is not looking like it's going to happen.
r1029: More metawareness
r1114: Goes back to Hydrad
r1132: Votes Awaclus
Takes us to end of Day 1. A bit of a rollercoaster. I think his end of Day 1 makes him look townier, even if not pro-town. Scum rarely acts that way in the face of getting lynched. Also Hydrad... a few points against partners, one for.. not too likely.
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Lio D2:
Says he'll be playing differently, takes blame for the way the end of day worked out. Is VLA for a bit.
r1288: Surprised people aren't still trying to lynch him; states he's not claiming this game
r1289: Questions Jan regarding end of D1. I had similar questions rereading Jan
r1313: Town on Seprix because of end of D1. Could be manufactured. Is suspicious of Iguana/Hydrad due to resistance of his lynch at the end of D1. (Well in all fairness, you seemed immune to lynching given how close you were multiple times)
r1384: Scum on Font for an Iguana vote
r1385: Says everyone but him and J Reggie are voting Iguana for no sufficiently justified reason. I don't understand the point of this, as either alignment. You don't have to divulge a reason for voting someone.
r1410: Lynch candidates: Teproc (dude), Iguana, Jan, Font. Townreads: himself, e, RR, SS, Haddock, Meli. ADK, Seprix, J Reggie, Gkrieg are implied null.
r1413: States reservations about all four lynch candidates. This feels townie.
r1463: "With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less." Bold if Lio is scum
r1527: Considers e's reads post that was under such contention to be of high quality, even though (I think) this was a mock-reads post that was criticizing Jan. I think Gkrieg did the same thign. Points to scum Lio and town e.
r1605: J Reggie has moved to town, says he's considering ADK (who I guess has moved over to scum) and Font now. Why ADK?
r1612: Votes font
r1646: Explains font vote, says it's feeling, sort of a 'in-the-background scum' kind of thing. Feels honest and townie from Lio.
r1647: Wagon preferences font > ADK >>>> Iguana > J Reggie
r1659, 1660: Iguana is at L-1, could hammer, is on font but considers moving to ADK.
r1665: Pushes ADK or Fontsian
Seems resigned to Iguana getting lynched, which he opposes. Leaves vote on Font and says he'll be gone for deadline. I think scum Lio is more likely to bus his partner at some point throughout all of this.
Day 2 ends. Pretty vocal against the Iguana lynch. A lot of the time scum doesn't like to be so strongly vocal about defending a partner, though sometimes you do it for exactly that reason. Hmmm.. what I don't like here is that he began with some reason to want to lynch Iguana, and then seemed to drop it once lynching Iguana became a thing. Changed mind or not wanting to follow through with bus? I'm now waffling on Lio.
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Lio D3:
r1816: First thing I really read from Lio. I voted here because "hey I'm town. I can use the fact that I'm town to help me read things. Even though we, as town, (did I mention I was town so I'm included in 'we'?) have had some bad deaths we're (Hey, I'm part of we, we means town. Did I mention I'm town?) are in good shape." Lots of red flags here. Also the "we're in good shape" thing is one of those phrases that it feels to me that scum says.
r1818: Says I'm likely scum. Probably because I was off the Iguana wagon. Not that I was around at all when lynches were happening. Interestingly, I originally came in thinking Iguana felt scummy (you guys can check the speccy after this), and talked myself away from it. Would I have gone for him towards the end of the day? Hard to say.
r1827: Says neighbor/jailkeeper Seprix probably found scum the prevoius night. Not sure why this would be.
r1829: A pointless arithmetic post. Perhaps more pointless than the armada of pointless arithmetic posts people like to do in Mafia games on this forum given that you can cherry-pick what numbers you want to be in there.
r1835: Oh, Seprix found scum N1, that's what he maent. That means we had two kills Night 1 and one got blocked. Would Seprix have known this going into D2? Well, or Seprix's target could have been killed; he doctors too. Not sure if there's good info there.
r1842: Okay, now Lio is repeating me... preemptively. Okay I probably read these before and didn't really pay enough attention.
r1867: Votes me, that's poor. Also says "voting for me is scummy because at this point scum really ought to mislynch me.", which I don't get.
r1887: Thinks Haddock is town because of his slip. Someone (Font?) brings up that being a different killing faction is equally valid as a legitimate slip, but Lio doesn't consider this, which is itself suspicious.
r1921: Why is the Mafia team any more likely to have killed Seprix than an SK? Why are we assuming Mafia + SK instead of multiball?
r1924: Doubles down on town-Haddock.
r1949: Votes gkrieg following Haddock. gkrieg was the scummiest of the people I've read
r2004: Yes, I hadn't read that before.
r2023: Considers ADK could be scum on a different team than Iguana.
r2026: :/ Notes how the Awaclus quickhammer at the end of D1 points towards Lio being scum with some of the late Awaclus voters. All that's missing here is the "I wouldn't point this out as scum, would I?" statement.
r2044: Says ADK looks bad, among others.
ADK becomes the popular choice, Lio says he'd probably vote, and ADK gets hammered without Lio having to vote.
Okay that brings us up to present on Lio. There's a lot of polar feelings here.. some feels pretty town, some feels pretty scummy. I think I'd lynch Lio above Jan. I think Gkrieg above Lio. Of those I've read, it probably looks like:
Gkrieg > Lio > Jan > RR.
ADK would have been at the bottom; I don't get why he got lynched.
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So Gkrieg being scum makes Lio less likely. I still need to reread e, Font, Haddock, Silver. Left is Lio and RR. RR is getting worse by default. The big thing against scum!RR was how he was treating Hydrad/Iguana.. it's not impossible for scum!RR to do that. Still, decent chance scum is in the unread people.
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So.. three deaths.
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Well yikes, I haven't read much if WW's posts yet but there's basically no way some of the stuff in there is fabricated. Clearly this had to have been written during the night before he knew everyone who would be dead and some of this stuff looks gold for him with gkrieg as confirmed scum.
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Can you link me to your RR re-read?
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It could just be a separate scum team. Could we have two teams plus an SK?
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Can you link me to your RR re-read?
It's this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=611471;topic=14936.0;last_msg=613188)
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Oh, that's the link to replying...
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg611471#msg611471
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It could just be a separate scum team. Could we have two teams plus an SK?
With only one death night one?
Also, it would be weird for gkrieg to be the only mafia PR. I'm pretty sure that there's a third mafia, and that they bussed Hydrad/Iguana.
A second ago I thought it was Roadrunner but now I'm not so sure. Actually moght be fontisian.
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It could just be a separate scum team. Could we have two teams plus an SK?
With only one death night one?
Also, it would be weird for gkrieg to be the only mafia PR. I'm pretty sure that there's a third mafia, and that they bussed Hydrad/Iguana.
A second ago I thought it was Roadrunner but now I'm not so sure. Actually moght be fontisian.
It's possible, things like that have happened before... Poison mechanic delays death; Faust had that mechanic in Buffy Mafia. That game actually had three killing factions, too. Plus Jailkeeping, multiple targetting can happen, etc. Ichi was Vig, but Vigs often don't shoot Night 1.
How do you think we had three deaths?
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Yesterday I said my wagon was scummy, and it was. But ADK was town, and Haddock/WW are more towny now. I guess they're mostly just towny in the not-mafia sense. But it could be that gkrieg was the only scum on my wagon.
It could just be a separate scum team. Could we have two teams plus an SK?
With only one death night one?
Also, it would be weird for gkrieg to be the only mafia PR. I'm pretty sure that there's a third mafia, and that they bussed Hydrad/Iguana.
A second ago I thought it was Roadrunner but now I'm not so sure. Actually moght be fontisian.
It's possible, things like that have happened before... Poison mechanic delays death; Faust had that mechanic in Buffy Mafia. That game actually had three killing factions, too. Plus Jailkeeping, multiple targetting can happen, etc. Ichi was Vig, but Vigs often don't shoot Night 1.
How do you think we had three deaths?
Probably two parties and another weird death like you mentioned, possibly caused (maybe indirectly) by town.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
That's presumptuous; it could be a Fibonacci sequence and we're looking at 5 deaths.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
Then why were there no deaths night zero?
That's presumptuous; it could be a Fibonacci sequence and we're looking at 5 deaths.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
That's presumptuous; it could be a Fibonacci sequence and we're looking at 5 deaths.
Then why were there no deaths night zero?
Fixed quotefail.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
That's presumptuous; it could be a Fibonacci sequence and we're looking at 5 deaths.
Then why were there no deaths night zero?
Fixed quotefail.
Fibonacci sequences are defined for any initial f0, f1. The standard is f0=f1=1, but you could start with f0=1, f1=2.
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yeah, WW looks pretty townie right now.
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Some of RR's early comments about there being multiple scum factions and stuff are especially interesting at this point in time.
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I think that they actually make him scummy. Sure, he could be town speculating about the setup. But at this point it seems clear that multiple factions exist. Or something. I think those comments are actually informed comments trying to give a show of theory talk when he actually knows some of the setup because he is in a faction and evaluated his faction's abilities and decided unless it was multi-ball of some sort there is no way that his faction was the only scum out there.
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I think that they actually make him scummy. Sure, he could be town speculating about the setup. But at this point it seems clear that multiple factions exist. Or something. I think those comments are actually informed comments trying to give a show of theory talk when he actually knows some of the setup because he is in a faction and evaluated his faction's abilities and decided unless it was multi-ball of some sort there is no way that his faction was the only scum out there.
I think RR didn't start that discussion, though.
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Anyway, if the pattern continues we'll have four deaths tonight, which pretty much means we lose.
That's presumptuous; it could be a Fibonacci sequence and we're looking at 5 deaths.
Then why were there no deaths night zero?
Fixed quotefail.
Fibonacci sequences are defined for any initial f0, f1. The standard is f0=f1=1, but you could start with f0=1, f1=2.
But shouldn't night zero be f0? We could say faust died N0 or something. My rule is more elegant though: deaths = night number.
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Any non-mafia who are still bad guys will be tough to catch, hmm.
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OK so WW is pretty much conftown.
lio looks way townier now as well.
Glad I was right about gkrieg.
I think looking at the ADK wagon and at II's and gkrieg's reads should be pretty fruitful. I'll do this when I get a chance.
Who's left?
Me (town)
WW, lio (probable town)
e, fonti, RR, silver.
Well, my instinct tells me e is scummy. The other three, eh. RR is maybe a bit scummy based on positions and stuff. Need to have a proper look though.
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Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
It's because we played dominion together in Michigan.
Look, it's okay Roadrunner, you can mislynch me.
Okay ADK pointed this out at the end lf day 2 but it got missed. Wow
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Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel
Slight Town
iguanaiguana
Null
Jan
Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock
Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....
So now this is the reads list. I think I'll reread e then Seprix then lio. As that is the order of my scum reads on them.
e reread:
after RVS, he votes for Seprix
he has a lot of empty posts then says that he has a lot of empty posts but that he likes his Seprix vote
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong.
Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
I guess I OMGUS'd a little bit from this. But I also made it a little bit easier to read now. This is an interesting reads list. I also think the case on me isn't a particularly good one. The other thing about this reads list is that it doesn't really add anything to the game because he doesn't really give good reasons for any of his reads.
here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604552#msg604552) he says that lio is totally town from his posts. Something to keep in mind if lio flips scum.
I actually just don't like how all of his rereads look.
he comes out on the scummy side of null on Seprix, then reads me as scummy, then votes for Hydrad after Jan's post.
here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604585#msg604585), he gives a good case on Jan actually. This is a very natural feeling case on someone.
stays on the vein that he doesn't want a lio lynch but is fine with the Seprix lynch when he doesn't think the Jan lynch is going to happen.
stays on Seprix
I am saying that scum exists in the pool of people who were lynch candidates at the end of day. So {liopoil, seprix, e, jan}
I am not scum. I don't think liopoil is. Seprix started the movement, as awaclus is an easy enough target to get quick votes due to his sometimes abrasive personality.
This wagon analysis is interesting. He thinks that both he and lio are town and that Seprix started the Awaclus wagon to ensure that he wasn't the lynch. I think if he really thinks that both he and lio are town, why would everyone try to switch to Awaclus instead of just pushing the existing "town" wagons. I'll have to think more about this analysis to see if it makes any sense to me.
this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606628#msg606628) and this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606633#msg606633) seem actually pretty townie to me.
Rereads Teproc and says that there are better lynches out there, but he doesn't want to defend him.
says that Iguana's thing that he commented wasn't a townslip or a scumslip. Just a new to f.ds-slip
Says that scum is on Iguana's wagon, and thinks it feels fabricated.
Is still insistent that Seprix is scum.
Conclusion
This reread actually weakens my scum read on him. He is still in the scum lean section of my reads list. I think he has some much townier posts today, but his D1 looks really bad actually.
Hmm I think e looks kind of bad from this
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Extremely likely NOT Mafia:
liopoil
Witherweaver
Haddock
fontisian
Could in theory be Mafia
Silverspawn
Probably one or both of these are Mafia:
Roadrunner
e
I think these are good odds for us.
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IIRC, at the end of the day yesterday, silverspawn, gkrieg, and e were all waffling between two mislynches: ADK and myself. Mafiapoints to ss and e for that. In fact I might switch ss and RR in my sorting post, even though ss supported the Hydrad/Iguana lynch.
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Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
Indeed, what DOES this mean?
-
Extremely likely NOT Mafia:
liopoil
Witherweaver
Haddock
fontisian
Could in theory be Mafia
Silverspawn
Probably one or both of these are Mafia:
Roadrunner
e
I think these are good odds for us.
I disagree with this only as far as fonti goes. I've been townreading her all game but right now I think I have to put her as null until I reread.
Chances are we have no mislynches in hand here.
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Extremely likely NOT Mafia:
liopoil
Witherweaver
Haddock
fontisian
Could in theory be Mafia
Silverspawn
Probably one or both of these are Mafia:
Roadrunner
e
I think these are good odds for us.
I disagree with this only as far as fonti goes. I've been townreading her all game but right now I think I have to put her as null until I reread.
Chances are we have no mislynches in hand here.
I agree that she is actually more likely to be some sort of other scum than most, but really, you think she could be mafia?
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I'm pretty sure somebody voted for gkrieg on day three besides Haddock and I, who was it?
-
Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
Indeed, what DOES this mean?
I was already voting for ADK, it was a joke to demonstrate how confident I was that he was scum (I'd vote for him twice if I could). Obviously that looks scummy now, but I think 2.7 will be a more likely lynch today.
-
Extremely likely NOT Mafia:
liopoil
Witherweaver
Haddock
fontisian
Could in theory be Mafia
Silverspawn
Probably one or both of these are Mafia:
Roadrunner
e
I think these are good odds for us.
I disagree with this only as far as fonti goes. I've been townreading her all game but right now I think I have to put her as null until I reread.
Chances are we have no mislynches in hand here.
I agree that she is actually more likely to be some sort of other scum than most, but really, you think she could be mafia?
Ah I was just thinking straight-up scum of any kind.
That's probably a good point.
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I'm pretty sure somebody voted for gkrieg on day three besides Haddock and I, who was it?
Nope. Just us, according to my Ctrl+F.
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I'm pretty sure somebody voted for gkrieg on day three besides Haddock and I, who was it?
Nope. Just us, according to my Ctrl+F.
I was think of e. e suspected gkrieg but never voted, and gkrieg voted for e but didn't pursue the lynch too much.
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I'm pretty sure somebody voted for gkrieg on day three besides Haddock and I, who was it?
Nope. Just us, according to my Ctrl+F.
I was think of e. e suspected gkrieg but never voted, and gkrieg voted for e but didn't pursue the lynch too much.
e voted gkrieg some time in D1. And vice versa I think. But no real commitment. So yeah I could see that as partner-distancing.
-
Now I remember it was ss who came up with the 'scumslip' argument against iguana. Bleh. He might have thought it wouldn't catch on, but idk...
My guess right now would be that there is just one mafia and one SK left, but I suppose that's a bit optimistic for a 16 player game. And if I have to call it now, I'd say e is the mafia and fontisian is the SK.
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Now I remember it was ss who came up with the 'scumslip' argument against iguana. Bleh. He might have thought it wouldn't catch on, but idk...
My guess right now would be that there is just one mafia and one SK left, but I suppose that's a bit optimistic for a 16 player game. And if I have to call it now, I'd say e is the mafia and fontisian is the SK.
Silver's play makes sense as a potential SK, including his push on iguana.
I could absolutely believe 4 mafia and 1 SK. meaning 3 scum from 7.
Hmmm. That may mean we basically HAVE to get the SK today. Otherwise 2 kills, and we straightup lose.
Most setups allow for 3 mislynches, though.
I don't think we can afford to SK-hunt. Better to try to find mafia and hope that there's only one mafia left. Or that the SK kills a mafia. So silver should be off the table as a lynch for today, I think.
-
I still think silver could be mafia.
Suppose there are two mafia and a SK left, and we lynch a mafia. Then with some luck, one will shoot the other and we'll have a 4-player mylo. Worst case they both hit townies and we are left with two townies, one mafia, one SK. At this point the game theory gets really interesting, which I'll ignore for now, but there is at least some chance town can get the mafia and SK to shoot each other the next night resulting in a town win.
So lynching mafia today is absolutely acceptable.
One troubling possibility is that and SK is likely at least 1-shot bulletproof. Could be that mafia tried to shoot them night one though, which would be nice.
-
Some of RR's early comments about there being multiple scum factions and stuff are especially interesting at this point in time.
Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
Indeed, what DOES this mean?
I was already voting for ADK, it was a joke to demonstrate how confident I was that he was scum (I'd vote for him twice if I could). Obviously that looks scummy now, but I think 2.7 will be a more likely lynch today.
Gunning for each other right out of the gate huh?
-
So I will probably be stream of conscious, what I remember paying from here out. Going on vacation, will keep posting and staying with the thread, I just will be phone posting basically exclusively
-
Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
With 16 alive, it took 9 to lynch.
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I refuse to believe that scum does not exist on that wagon. Silverspawn looks the worst because he pushed out so hard. Haddock, liopoil, RR, fontisian are the remaining people on the list.
I could see silverspawn/RR both scum here. I think these wagons are another point in favor of town!WW because I doubt three scum were all hanging out together on liopoil. Unless they are different factions, which is possible
-
Scum->town
RR, silverspawn, liopoil, fontisian, Haddock, WW, e
-
Why can't the awaclus wagon be all town? Not that I think it is
-
I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
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I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
Uh, for the moment, sure. I'm probably only going to vote once today.
-
I don't want to vote until I've finished all my rereads.
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E, claim your role. Now.
-
E, claim your role. Now.
What?
-
This is order. If my reason after he claims doesn't satisfy you, feel free to lynch me for it.
-
*an order
Phone posting is hard.
-
What will you do if he does not claim?
This is my first non-phone post of the game by the way.
-
Things and stuff.
-
Things and stuff.
Come on. All I do is phone post, it's not that bad. Care to elaborate?
-
That was a laptop post. I'm not answering the question right now, for reasons. I will explain those reason when e gets back. Please continue doing whatever you would be doing if I hadn't made that post.
-
Things and stuff.
I mean, if you think it's worth it we could make him choose between claiming and being lynched. I might be willing to go along with that depending on how important you think this is.
-
That would be lovely.
-
Sidenote:
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (6): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671
Jan (2): silverspawn, liopoil
silverspawn (1): Seprix
Seprix (2): fontisian, 2.71828......
Not Voting (4): Ichimaru Gin, Jan, Melisandre, J Reggie
Confirmed two mafia on liopoil, and there's likely another one between the other three. Considering how many wagons they could have been on and pushed, lio is very likely town.
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I mean, some of the stuff I threw out there was to see reactions, but some of it was just plain stupidity, especially the incredibly-meta read on Melis/Teproc N1 kill.
I died?
Also, this is filthy.
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E, claim your role. Now.
sure, why not.
I am a watching doctor. I doctor someone and receive the results of who targeted them at night.
N1 I targeted Melisandre. I received the result that Melisandre was targeted by both Seprix, J Reggie, and myself. This is one of the reasons that I pursued a Seprix lynch so much. I believed that Seprix was scum who targeted Melisandre and I shielded Melisandre from that kill. If it wasn't Seprix, I thought it would could have been J Reggie. Then everything was turned upside down when they both died and flipped town on N2
N2 I targeted you (fontisian). I received no result. Which was really strange to me. Because N1 I received the result that I had targeted my target myself, so I figured I would at least get myself. I didn't, so possibly roleblocked.
N3 I did not target anyone because I forgot to submit my action. It has been a rough few days and I just didn't do it. No excuses
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E, I accuse you of making up your reasoning for going after Jan.
vote: Jan
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening. I mean, he did the same thing that he called me scummy for.
And yeah, that null-town read I had earlier. Well, let's switch it to scummy. I mean, seriously, everything I called him town for I could also call him scum for. Nice how early reads can progress. All those questions to get a feel for the game before jumping in exactly where he was comfortable to insure he didn't slip up in an unfamiliar environment. How is that for twisting around what I said to make it sound scummy?
I accuse you of being the fourth, scummiest vote on the Seprix wagon with no reasoning:
Vote Count 1.2
2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Melisandre (2): Teproc, Roadrunner7671
gkrieg13 (1): Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (4): Awaclus, silverspawn, liopoil, 2.71828.....
Roadrunner7671 (2): Jan, Melisandre
Teproc (1): A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (3): fontisian, Seprix, J Reggie
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
Not Voting (1): Haddock
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.
sorry...been really slack here. I still like my seprix vote.
I accuse you of pushing gkrieg and Hydrad Day 1
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
gkrieg's game has consisted entirely of the following two things:
I like the read/post/etc by X person
I don't like the read/post/etc by Y person
So yeah, a lot of 'input' by gkrieg but nothing that is difficult for him. Just going off whatever other people say. I am happy keeping my vote here.
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
But not trying to convince anyone of those reads. (Seriously. I looked at all of his posts. There’s nothing until Iguana gets run up at the end of D2, where he starts /defending/ iguana. There’s a little skirmish with gkrieg at the end of D2 but it’s like a couple sentences.)
I accuse you of having one mafia and three town on your wagon, while three potential scum were on the Jan wagon and scum!Hydrad moved to make your wagon larger. In addition, gkrieg did not push your wagon and was on it with a meaningless vote from rvs.
Vote Count 1.9
2.71828..... (4): gkrieg13, Jan, A Drowned Kernel, fontisian
Seprix (1): Awaclus
liopoil (1): Teproc
fontisian (1): Hydrad
Jan (5): silverspawn, liopoil, J Reggie, 2.71828....., Haddock
silverspawn (2): Seprix, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (2): Melisandre, Ichimaru Gin
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 11 hours.
I accuse you of claiming not to like the liopoil wagon multiple times, yet not voting for Hydrad, someone you had already called scummy, when he arose as an alternate wagon:
Vote Count 1.14
2.71828..... (1): A Drowned Kernel
liopoil (7): Teproc, Haddock, Hydrad, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Jan
Seprix (1): 2.71828......
Hydrad (4): silverspawn, liopoil, Seprix, fontisian
Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Melisandre, J Reggie
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time. That's in 50 minutes.
Perhaps you weren’t around, as you made your last post of the day 20 minutes before. But you didn’t bring up the wagon the next day either.
I thought I was going to be around at the end of the day but got pulled into a meeting at work....new bosses and they are trying to change the duties and responsibilities of my job...so yeah.
Anyway, since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
I am going back to vote: Seprix
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
This is also interesting. RR, do you say that because of the size of the game, or what? I mean, sure, but you seem fairly confident and I don't see anything that says multiball
Wow, who could the partners have been? Oh wait, they were e and Hydrad. Hydrad and lio were the obvious choice to interrogate here, as the Awaclus wagon popped up in opposition to them, but you didn’t question Hydrad and your partners were already pushing lio.
I accuse you of pushing the Awaclus wagon as scum /because/ there were almost no mafia on it. All of e, gkrieg and Hydrad were off wagon.
And yeah. Lynching D1 is important. And yeah, it is easy to sit back on the sidelines and critique the lynch because I wasn't around to vote. But really. Throughout the day, Awaclus had 4 other votes. 4. One was RVS. Wait, no, they ALL were RVS. Until the lynch.
We had wagons on Seprix. We had wagons on Liopoil. We had wagons on me. We had wagons on Jan. We had wagons on ADK. We had wagons on Hydrad.
We lynch Awaclus. My question. Why? I can tell you why. Because he gave off the appearance of being scummy, without being scum. Basically, the perfect PR game. No one voted him seriously throughout the game because, well, he didn't do anything to deserve a vote. But he gave off "that scummy vibe." Which made it super easy to lynch him with that mob like mentality when people are just voting without really thinking. Couldn't build a wagon on him, so just mob-lynch him.
And don't give me any of the excuses that scum wouldn't be involved in this lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606546#msg606546). The "oh we just had to get a lynch through so it wasn't scummy" is such an easy excuse. I mean, those last 3 people have almost a scummier position (well, only 2 alive now since Ichi got NKed) because "they held out as long as they could" to see if another lynch was viable.
While admitting the reasoning was false in most cases:
e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?
I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)). A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently). I think B slightly over A.
Ok, but you just attacked Seprix and Silver based on the idea that A is more likely than B.
yes I did. Is there something wrong with that? I made a rule than found an edge-case for it. How very f.ds of me.
I accuse you of soft defending Iguana by going after the wagon, when you previously expressed suspicion of the slot:
Not sure what to make of this iguana wagon. The case seems a little...well....fabricated. I will have to go back and look at iguana more carefully
I am confident that scum exists on that wagon, I just have never been too convinced by "scumslip" arguments. Still need to read iguana as a whole and see how he looks
But I think scum!seprix totally jumps onto the argument
I accuse you of waffling about the Iguana lynch until I forced you to vote him:
Reread iguana here and didn't get scum vibes from him. Which probably means he is scum. Because I always push a mislynch on him when he is actually town.
Not enough for me to vote him right now, but I might if we haven't had movement somewhere else later on in the day. And yeah, deadlines late at night...most likely not going to be around.
That goes for the rest of you, too. A lot of us won't be here later. We need the majority on iguana now. (Looking at you e).
you are right. We at least need to get someone L-1 or something. We haven't had any productive wagons yet today.
vote: iguana
And, yet, still exploring other angles and hyping your Seprix tunnel:
Iguanaiguana is the person I feel worst about mislynching. I don't know why. If nothing better has appeared by 1:00 AM, I'll probably join. But reluctantly.
We can always do a mass switch to RR at the end of the day....
I accuse you of trying to coach your teammates:
Iphone 1s and the dominion forum do not mix well.
I want iguanaiguana to claim, I won't hammer without it
Hey scum, don't claim and you will never be hammered. scum!iguana sees this and can decide to (regrettably) miss the rest of the day.
“Iguana, either don’t come back or make sure you fakeclaim pr if you do.”
I accuse you of making a post questioning Iguana’s claim, when everyone around you already saw that he claimed mafia, because you wanted to be seen questioning him:
Ayyyy, lmao.
No hammer, let us discuss.
Unvote
...plain Tracker? That seems odd given what's already flipped.
PPE: oh hey?
trying to post thoughts then reading the PPEs then my posts are out of date. I will just power this one through though.
That claim had a very pulled-out-of-a-hat feel to it. I don't know. Not impressed with iguana's resignation posts here at the end.
He just claimed scum right?
I accuse you of /still/ not really pushing gkrieg. Where’s the vote, punk?
Work has been......interesting. really sorry that I have neglected this game. I feel like gkrieg is the current fad. I remember a D1 scum read of him for some reason. I like WW and Melisandre for their rereads. Mostly finding people townie, which is what it is. Either way, not lynching today.
I used to have a big town read on liopoil, but he has had some posts recently that have mellowed that. Need a targeted reread (as well as being at my computer) to find them.
But then, like I started, gkrieg seems like a good option for today. Day ends the 20th (Monday), promise to read over the weekend. Do a load of laundry, reread liopoil. Vacuum the floor, reread gkrieg. That sort of thing
“But I totally pushed him d1 guys!”
Oh here it is.
and we need wagons
vote: liopoil
On the likely town guy.
I accuse you of still pushing the Awaclus thing despite the fact that everyone who was around voted Awaclus to make sure a lynch happened. Being around at the deadline is not scum indicative.
Oh, and you claimed a role that's 1.way too powerful and 2.incompatible with mine. I'm an even night tracker. I tracked lio n2. He didn't target anyone.
You're scum e. Prepare to die.
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Well, I'm going to bed.
Write back soon.
<3 - fonti
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Oh, and you claimed a role that's 1.way too powerful and 2.incompatible with mine. I'm an even night tracker. I tracked lio n2. He didn't target anyone.
1. ok
2. I do not understand how this is incompatible with your role. There is no contradiction. I am a watcher, not a tracker. I watched you and no one else targeted you.
Thank you for getting excited about mislynching me though. It was a good case that I enjoyed reading immensely. There was a lot there about my position on Seprix. I wanted to lynch Seprix in part due to my result. So when I was faced with the Awaclus wagon and was looking at Seprix/silverspawn, I went for Seprix.
You also post things that make me look like I was pseudo-tunneling gkrieg without any real action against him, which yeah. Pick any few posts and you can do that. And you also quote the vote count 1.14, adding the bit about me not being around possibly. I wasn't.
Then there is some iguana stuff. Also, since you quote it, that quote about a mass switch to RR was very much a meta joke about previous games and lynching RR needlessly.
My post questioning iguana was slightly over a minute after he posted his scum claim. I had not seen it. There had been a flurry of posts at the time and I was trying to stay up to date before posting then I quit trying and just posted what I was thinking.
still pushing the Awaclus thing....because it is a thing. Being around at deadline is not scum-indicative, but it isn't town-indicative either. It just means you were around. The way everything shifted to Awaclus I thought (and still think) was awful and scummy.
Bed for now.
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Are you saying you don' think there would be a Tracker and Watcher in the same game? Or that him not having an even/odd modifier is inconsistent?
What roles have we seen so far?
Modified Multiple User Personality (I guess something like http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Multiple_User_Personality; I've never seen the role before)
Forensic Investigating Vigilante ( I guess http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Forensic_Investigator; can learn who has targetted a player during the game after the player dies)
Consultant Detective (Some kind of Cop/Cop variant)
Neighborizing Jailkeeper
And one Mafia role:
Even-Night (Ninja Bus Driver)
Claims:
Watching Doctor
Even-Night Tracker
Having both a Jailkeeper and a Doctor is iffy.
Font, you're just an Even-Night Tracker? No other modifications?
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I confirm that I did not target anybody on night 2. That confirms fontisian is some sort of tracker for real, since that would be a lucky guess otherwise.
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I mean, some of the stuff I threw out there was to see reactions, but some of it was just plain stupidity, especially the incredibly-meta read on Melis/Teproc N1 kill.
I died?
Also, this is filthy.
What does this mean?
-
I confirm that I did not target anybody on night 2. That confirms fontisian is some sort of tracker for real, since that would be a lucky guess otherwise.
Or that you two are a separate faction.
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
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Wait, did Font respond to Iguana claiming tracker? Also I thought he said he was VT.
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
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E, claim your role. Now.
sure, why not.
I am a watching doctor. I doctor someone and receive the results of who targeted them at night.
N1 I targeted Melisandre. I received the result that Melisandre was targeted by both Seprix, J Reggie, and myself. This is one of the reasons that I pursued a Seprix lynch so much. I believed that Seprix was scum who targeted Melisandre and I shielded Melisandre from that kill. If it wasn't Seprix, I thought it would could have been J Reggie. Then everything was turned upside down when they both died and flipped town on N2
N2 I targeted you (fontisian). I received no result. Which was really strange to me. Because N1 I received the result that I had targeted my target myself, so I figured I would at least get myself. I didn't, so possibly roleblocked.
N3 I did not target anyone because I forgot to submit my action. It has been a rough few days and I just didn't do it. No excuses
Well that N3 sure is convenient huh.
What were Seprix and J Reggie? Let me check...
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Okay here it is:
It's also entirely possible for iguana's reaction to silver to be real and iguana still be scum, if silver got any of the details wrong.
But I appreciate you taking a stand.
@Iguanaiguana You are at L-1. You will claim in your next post.
Tracker. No fricken result. Hydrad didn't submit a night action. : (
Who did you intend to track?
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I have a cop result!!!!
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
.. we're pretty late in the game for this kind of voting.
PPE: uh.. okay
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
I thought you wantsd to lynch e
Scum watcher is much more common, and it explains the J Reggie and Seprix kills
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It's not a cop result, but it's something similar.
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Cop: Results are Killing, investigative
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
.. we're pretty late in the game for this kind of voting.
It's never too late if you're Roadrunner!
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I have a cop result!!!!
See I told you all there were a lot of PRs.
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
I thought you wantsd to lynch e
Scum watcher is much more common, and it explains the J Reggie and Seprix kills
Why is scum watcher common?
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Cop: Results are Killing, investigative
Can you just full claim?
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Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
I thought you wantsd to lynch e
Scum watcher is much more common, and it explains the J Reggie and Seprix kills
Why is scum watcher common?
Because I've seen it in setups before? It's actually useful for scum, more than tracker
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Shit Fontisian is confirmed scum
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It was my own follower result! The actions Fontisian performed were killing and investigation!
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Fontisian, was the reason you asked e to claim just because he is scummy? I think that's not so great of a reason, but I won't lynch you just for that.
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It was my own follower result! The actions Fontisian performed were killing and investigation!
Hello? Vote for Fontisian!
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Roadrunner, please describe your role, in full, and accurately, alongg with who you taregetted each night and what result(s) you got. In a single post, which you won't reneg on. Thanks.
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fontisian why did you vote for me on day 3 after seeing I hadn't targetted anyone?
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Okay let's go.
I am a Motivator and one shot follower.
I have to target during the day. D1 I targeted no one because I thought I targeted at night.
D2 I motivated Liopoil and there were two deaths.
D3 I targeted Fontisian, there were 3 deaths and I followed her, receiving a Investigative and Killing result.
Elementary.
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I have a cop result!!!!
See I told you all there were a lot of PRs.
Oh and this was my own result. I got confused. I thought following meant I would see who Fontisian targeted. Wouldn't that make more sense?
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Okay let's go.
I am a Motivator and one shot follower.
I have to target during the day. D1 I targeted no one because I thought I targeted at night.
D2 I motivated Liopoil and there were two deaths.
D3 I targeted Fontisian, there were 3 deaths and I followed her, receiving a Investigative and Killing result.
Elementary.
What is motivator?
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Okay let's go.
I am a Motivator and one shot follower.
I have to target during the day. D1 I targeted no one because I thought I targeted at night.
D2 I motivated Liopoil and there were two deaths.
D3 I targeted Fontisian, there were 3 deaths and I followed her, receiving a Investigative and Killing result.
Elementary.
What is motivator?
Whoever I target can perform their PR role twice, but Mafia couldn't use their factional action twice. I checked.
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Follower, FYI; http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Follower
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Follower, FYI; http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Follower
Yeah, I thought I was a one shot tracker.
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Okay let's go.
I am a Motivator and one shot follower.
I have to target during the day. D1 I targeted no one because I thought I targeted at night.
D2 I motivated Liopoil and there were two deaths.
D3 I targeted Fontisian, there were 3 deaths and I followed her, receiving a Investigative and Killing result.
Elementary.
What is motivator?
Whoever I target can perform their PR role twice, but Mafia couldn't use their factional action twice. I checked.
Is the target informed? Well, they must be.
Did you motivate D3?
You Follow during the Day or at Night?
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And mafiscum motivator: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Motivator
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Lio can you confirm D2?
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Okay let's go.
I am a Motivator and one shot follower.
I have to target during the day. D1 I targeted no one because I thought I targeted at night.
D2 I motivated Liopoil and there were two deaths.
D3 I targeted Fontisian, there were 3 deaths and I followed her, receiving a Investigative and Killing result.
Elementary.
What is motivator?
Whoever I target can perform their PR role twice, but Mafia couldn't use their factional action twice. I checked.
Is the target informed? Well, they must be.
Did you motivate D3?
You Follow during the Day or at Night?
Yeah, I motivated Fontisian. And I don't know, but I assume night. That's when most PR actions happen.
PPE 2
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Sigh. Alright. I'm the serial killer. I shot Jan, seprix, ichi and Regi. I went for e today because I investigated him, know he's mafia, and have reason to believe they're close to over run.
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When did you submit your one-shot Follower action?
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Sigh. Alright. I'm the serial killer. I shot Jan, seprix, ichi and Regi. I went for e today because I investigated him, know he's mafia, and have reason to believe they're close to over run.
Yeah! Yeah! We lynch them both and win!
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When did you submit your one-shot Follower action?
Look!
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Rr, you need to unvote or you may just lose.
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Oh, wow.
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Rr, you need to unvote or you may just lose.
How?
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vote: 2.7
You're right
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Listen. I've been trying to both live and solve this game for three weeks. I'll be damned if scum win because I let myself get lynched here. Lynch e today, and I will either do my best to shoot mafia tonight or kill someone of the town's choice.
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Listen. I've been trying to both live and solve this game for three weeks. I'll be damned if scum win because I let myself get lynched here. Lynch e today, and I will either do my best to shoot mafia tonight or kill someone of the town's choice.
Or kill me because I caught you
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Why? You're a town who did well? I've been playing mafia for four years. I try not to hold grudges. Tbh, I was pretty sure something would happen when I got the kill.
Oh, also, Lio's town. The no action thing was a guess based on his D1 stuff.
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RR UNVOTE
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Calm the fuck down. I'm not mafia and I've personally killed both of the dead ones so far.
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Sigh. Alright. I'm the serial killer. I shot Jan, seprix, ichi and Regi. I went for e today because I investigated him, know he's mafia, and have reason to believe they're close to over run.
lol I knew it. Still, nobody vote yet.
Who shot gkrieg??!?
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Oh wait, my b, I shot gkrieg, not seprix.
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RR UNVOTE
BUT I'M VOTING FOR CONFIRMED SCUM
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Blah, that was stupid.
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wait, how did you shoot seprix AND Reggie?
If you want us to work with you, probably fullclaim.
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RR UNVOTE
BUT I'M VOTING FOR CONFIRMED SCUM
Yeah, I'm telling you to stop doing that for now.
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Oh wait, my b, I shot gkrieg, not seprix.
How did you shoot gkrieg and jan?
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I had two kills last night, curtesy of rr. I shot Jan with one because I knew he wouldn't appreciate being alive in a game he'd almost never win and I shot gkrieg because I thought he was scum.
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I had two kills last night, curtesy of rr. I shot Jan with one because I knew he wouldn't appreciate being alive in a game he'd almost never win and I shot gkrieg because I thought he was scum.
Wait what about Night 1?
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Tbh, shooting Jan was against my wincon, because he tends to side with me, but whatever. Sometimes you've got to be a bro and make the mercy kill.
Killed ichi n1. I'm guessing I doublestacked? The dude was pretty town.
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Vote Count 4.1
2.71828..... (1): Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (6): liopoil, fontisian, silverspawn, Haddock, 2.71828....., Witherweaver
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends June 29 at 9 am forum time.
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So scum did not kill N1
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Rr, lio, I give you my word that I will townside. I do not break my word in these scenarios, because I play for overall winrate, and breaking it now will undermine my credibility in the future. I swear I will do my best to shoot scum tonight.
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Tbh, shooting Jan was against my wincon, because he tends to side with me, but whatever. Sometimes you've got to be a bro and make the mercy kill.
Killed ichi n1. I'm guessing I doublestacked? The dude was pretty town.
Uh I think town (and Jan) is going to win.
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Rr, lio, I give you my word that I will townside. I do not break my word in these scenarios, because I play for overall winrate, and breaking it now will undermine my credibility in the future. I swear I will do my best to shoot scum tonight.
Sorry, your word means nothing. We wi pretend to trust you for now.
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How do we even know that e is scum? Or that fontisian isn't mafia? Like, I'm 90% sure that fontisian is SK and e is mafia, but we don't have actual results or contradictions to be certain.
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I'm here! and crazy shit happens. Gotta catch up.
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I guarantee you that if you lynch me, mafia will win?
What do you have to lose? You have a mafia in e, that should be obvious when a jailer and investigative role have already flipped. You know I'm not mafia because I killed iguana and my story matches up with rr's. If e is the last nafia, you just lynch me tomorriw. Hell, even if there's two left, they need to kill me now because I'll kill them if they don't.
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Come on, man, I don't want to hand them a fucking victory on a silver platter
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And if I have to call it now, I'd say e is the mafia and fontisian is the SK.
:D
fontisian you still need to claim all of your powers in full.
I guarantee you that if you lynch me, mafia will win?
What do you have to lose? You have a mafia in e, that should be obvious when a jailer and investigative role have already flipped. You know I'm not mafia because I killed iguana and my story matches up with rr's. If e is the last nafia, you just lynch me tomorriw. Hell, even if there's two left, they need to kill me now because I'll kill them if they don't.
Relax, we won't lynch you today. Doesn't mean you aren't dangerous.
We need to solve the game today to make sure we lynch exactly the right person and plan exactly correctly for the night. That's why I say nobody should be voting. If I were scum I might quickhammer e if I got the chance. So RR, please unvote.
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Fine, Unvote
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OK I'm still kinda catching up.
This is weird.
If fonti is indeed an SK I agree we should lynch e (probably) over him. I need to sort out the claims.
But this COULD be a scum gambit. If e is town, fonti as mafia might claim this to get us to lynch e (town) and thereby hand scum the win. It's possible.
Would pretty much require RR to be in on it though, since he would have to be lying about how his motivation works. Hmmm. Let's take this slow, guys. There's loads of time today.
PPE. I agree with lio, RR should unvote for now.
Also, fonti, can you explain how lynching you is an immediate scum victory? That can't be the case unless there are 2+ scum left AND scum have two kills.
Which can only happen AFAI can tell if there were 2x2 scum teams (+SK) and we've hit one of each. Seems unlikely. Even then it's not a guaranteed win for them.
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Joat serial killer. I have three one shot abilities - ascetic, cop and bulletproof. I used ascetic n2, which makes me believe e dud target me that night, ironically because I was paranoid about mafia tracking me. Wish I saved it for last night. I held onto the cop claim for this long because I needed to be around in endgame to win anyway, it's more powerful late in the game, and I was worried we were approaching overrun.
I won't say whether I've used bulletproof.
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And fonti, you seem to be suggesting that you know (or think you know) who the last scum is other than e.
Can you confirm whether or not this is the case (don't say who, just whether you know/think you know).
PPE. So you copped e on N3, is that right? I've lost track. My next post will be claim collection.
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Haddock, there are 7 alive. Lynching me brings it down to 6. 3 scum win at that point.
I have strong suspicions on who the last two are.
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And fonti, you seem to be suggesting that you know (or think you know) who the last scum is other than e.
Can you confirm whether or not this is the case (don't say who, just whether you know/think you know).
PPE. So you copped e on N3, is that right? I've lost track. My next post will be claim collection.
Oh, I said I checked Lio earlier to get his sympathy
This was a lie.
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So I'm an IC right?
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He's still town though. The way e treated him makes that obvious.
And rr's always town.
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I'm confused. I need to make some sort of collection post before I draw any conclusions, otherwise I'll overlook something and mess up.
@font: do you know how many mafia we have left?
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Joat serial killer. I have three one shot abilities - ascetic, cop and bulletproof. I used ascetic n2, which makes me believe e dud target me that night, ironically because I was paranoid about mafia tracking me. Wish I saved it for last night. I held onto the cop claim for this long because I needed to be around in endgame to win anyway, it's more powerful late in the game, and I was worried we were approaching overrun.
I won't say whether I've used bulletproof.
You did use the cop N3 right?
PPE:And fonti, you seem to be suggesting that you know (or think you know) who the last scum is other than e.
Can you confirm whether or not this is the case (don't say who, just whether you know/think you know).
PPE. So you copped e on N3, is that right? I've lost track. My next post will be claim collection.
Oh, I said I checked Lio earlier to get his sympathy
This was a lie.
When did you say that?
How does bulletproof work? You choose a night to use it, then you are bulletproof that night only?
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I'm confused. I need to make some sort of collection post before I draw any conclusions, otherwise I'll overlook something and mess up.
@font: do you know how many mafia we have left?
Pretty sure it's just you and e.
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Claims.
e, Watching Doctor.
Targetted Meli N1, receiving "targetted by Seprix, Reggie and e"
Targetted fonti N2, receiving nothing.
Forgot to target N3.
RR, Motivator and 1-shot follower
Forgot to target anyone D1. Can you explain this please RR? You said you HAD to motivate so this should have been randomised or something, no?
Motivated Lio D2. (2 deaths, apparently by fonti and mafia)
Motivated fonti D3. Followed fonti, got investigative and killing.
Fonti, JOAT SK (ascetic, Cop, bulletproof)
Ascetic N2. (matches with e's target getting nothing)
Copped on N3, maybe? Hasn't said.
Won't say about bulletproof usage. Can you tell us at least whether this is passive or active?
Hmmm.
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So this is who we have:
liopoil
fontisian
silverspawn
Roadrunner7671
Haddock
2.71828.....
Witherweaver
Let's believe font, so SK and e is Mafia.
Triple kill is explained so we don't need multiball. Either e is last Mafia or there is more. If e is last Mafia, then we have 5 Town. It doesn't matter the order we lynch. If we lynch one, the other kills someone tonight, and we have 4v1. That would be.. three Mafia and one SK vs 12 Town. Maybe underpowered.
If e is not last Mafia, then we have 4 or less Town. If we lynch e, then Font and Mafia shoot tonight. Say Mafia hits Town, down to 3 or less, Font hits Mafia or Town. If Mafia then we lynch Font and (likely) win, if Town then we're down to 2 or less with at least one Mafia and an SK. That's uh.. lynch Font is a loss and Mafia wins, mislynch lose, lynch Mafia and Font wins. In any scenario we lose. If Mafia shoots Font instead, and Font hits Mafia, then we win or 3v1, good for us. If Mafia shoots Font and Font shoots Town, then we have 3v1 or we lose if there were two more Mafia.
If e is not last Mafia and we lynch Font, then Mafia shoots tonight, down to three or less, tomorrow we lynch e, they shoot again, it's 2v1 LyLo. Or a loss if there are more than two left. Though in that case it looks like we lose in almost any scenario.
If e is actually Town, then a mislynch means lose, I think. If we lynch Font today, Mafia kills tonight, down to 3v2 or lose if they have more. Two LyLos, lynching a town e would be a loss. If we lynch town!e today, then Mafia and Font shoot tonight, I think if either hits Town we're done, so suppose they shoot each other. If there is another Mafia left we'd be at 2v1 LyLo. So there's a slim chance if e is Town.
Is this correct?
PPEs
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Fonti, yes, 3 scum would win in that case.
But I cannot even remotely believe that this setup contained FIVE mafia and an SK. I don't think that's even winnable for town.
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And yes, I copped e last night.
If e flips town, kill me, no questions asked.
Silver: my wincon implies that there's a third faction that can support scum and e isn't acting like the last mafia. This means there are two left after him.
Ww: I have to shoot mafia to live. Town will absolutely help lynch me if I do not.
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Fonti, yes, 3 scum would win in that case.
But I cannot even remotely believe that this setup contained FIVE mafia and an SK. I don't think that's even winnable for town.
Mistborn had five Mafia, but no SK. Town had a Vig.
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And yes, I copped e last night.
If e flips town, kill me, no questions asked.
Silver: my wincon implies that there's a third faction that can support scum and e isn't acting like the last mafia. This means there are two left after him.
Ww: I have to shoot mafia to live. Town will absolutely help lynch me if I do not.
You mean a fourth faction? I'm not sure I can see that.
I could see this as a slip from fonti, saying third faction rather than fourth.
This could well be a gambit from mafia!RR+fonti. I don't know at this point.
A question for SK!fonti, if you are that. Sure, you have to shoot scum. Do you believe that you know who else is scum?
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Fonti, yes, 3 scum would win in that case.
But I cannot even remotely believe that this setup contained FIVE mafia and an SK. I don't think that's even winnable for town.
Deep space 9 had 2 scumteams of 3 in a 15 player game, IIRC. I was the last town player in a 3 player lylo with two scum on opposite teams but didn't realize both were scum and lynched one for the loss.
But I agree this would be even worse. So I'm betting that we win if we lynch e and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
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I mean, if it's just me and e, that's fine. I get to personally kill all the mafia and feel kind of good.
All of my abilities are active, because life suck and then you die.
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Okay, thanks. That looks accurate to me.
@font: I don't quite follow. So there's a pseudo-mafia? But then why two after e? Why not just one?
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And yes, I copped e last night.
If e flips town, kill me, no questions asked.
Silver: my wincon implies that there's a third faction that can support scum and e isn't acting like the last mafia. This means there are two left after him.
Ww: I have to shoot mafia to live. Town will absolutely help lynch me if I do not.
You mean a fourth faction? I'm not sure I can see that.
I could see this as a slip from fonti, saying third faction rather than fourth.
This could well be a gambit from mafia!RR+fonti. I don't know at this point.
A question for SK!fonti, if you are that. Sure, you have to shoot scum. Do you believe that you know who else is scum?
If it were a gambit, we'd have to explain the three kills last night.
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and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
Where is that coming from
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I think if e was the last, he claims VT and tries to ride it out. His claim backed himself into a corner. It only makes sense if he was just trying to live through the day.
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And yes, I copped e last night.
If e flips town, kill me, no questions asked.
Silver: my wincon implies that there's a third faction that can support scum and e isn't acting like the last mafia. This means there are two left after him.
Ww: I have to shoot mafia to live. Town will absolutely help lynch me if I do not.
You mean a fourth faction? I'm not sure I can see that.
I could see this as a slip from fonti, saying third faction rather than fourth.
This could well be a gambit from mafia!RR+fonti. I don't know at this point.
A question for SK!fonti, if you are that. Sure, you have to shoot scum. Do you believe that you know who else is scum?
If it were a gambit, we'd have to explain the three kills last night.
RR, 1shot scum motivator, motivates fonti.
and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
Where is that coming from
Simple enough. If there is scum past e and fonti, it basically has to be you.
If this were a gambit from fonti and RR I don't think fonti would have mentioned ascetic. I think he would have made sure e's results didn't make sense.
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and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
Where is that coming from
Pretty much POE, but will discuss more later. The only other options are WW and Haddock really...
I'm convinced that e is not the last, but how could there be TWO more mafia? Who could they even be?
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Motivation doesn't work on factional powers
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Motivation doesn't work on factional powers
This, and SK!fontisian is a total fit with her play while mafia!font is not at all
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Simple enough. If there is scum past e and fonti, it basically has to be you.
well it's not me. so PoE? I haven't done the PoE, but you and lio are both candidates. Lio not so much because I still townread him based on his play.
in any case @fonti - so you don't know who the remaining scum is? Which means if we let you live for tonight you'll have to guess?
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Motivation doesn't work on factional powers
This, and SK!fontisian is a total fit with her play while mafia!font is not at all
agreed. it hasn't been mafia play.
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and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
Where is that coming from
Pretty much POE, but will discuss more later. The only other options are WW and Haddock really...
I'm convinced that e is not the last, but how could there be TWO more mafia? Who could they even be?
you and haddock?
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Stop guys. There are three scum left: Fontisian, 2.7 and mystery man.
Carry on.
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Sorry, I meant third scum faction.
If I'm wrong about it, it's because getting info from faust is like trying to squeeze blood from a lemon.
I do not know who the remaining scum is. But hey, I've gotten three, so I have a decent track record.
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Motivation doesn't work on factional powers
Sure, but you might well as mafia have some such thing that allows a 1-shot extra kill. But then I guess we still need ANOTHER faction. I'm aware this is a stretch, but it IS a possibility.
and tell fontisian to shoot silver.
Where is that coming from
Pretty much POE, but will discuss more later. The only other options are WW and Haddock really...
I'm convinced that e is not the last, but how could there be TWO more mafia? Who could they even be?
I don't think there can be 3 mafia and an SK left. If there is we ALMOST can't win anyway, but have to lynch away from fonti. Fonti probably knows this and is playing up the likelihood of 3-remaining scum. But I guess it's possible.
Most likely scenario is that fonti is telling the truth, e is scum and there's one other. In which case we lynch e, and aski fonti nicely to shoot someone-we-think-is-scum (pseudo vote might be good for this). Of course she doesn't have to go with it, but fonti likely gets killed by mafia tonight.
PPE. a whole bunch.
@RR, how do you know that?
@silver. Tcha. You must realise that's a HUGE stretch.
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I don't know that but nothing else makes any sense.
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Sorry, I meant third scum faction.
If I'm wrong about it, it's because getting info from faust is like trying to squeeze blood from a lemon.
I do not know who the remaining scum is. But hey, I've gotten three, so I have a decent track record.
What exactly did your result on e say? What reason do you have to suspect a third scum faction?
On N1 there were 0 deaths not cause by fontisian
On N2 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Seprix)
On N3 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Melisandre)
Looks like just the mafia to me.
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Dear mafia,
I'm totally bulletproof tonight.
Totally.
Bulletproof.
(Nailed it.)
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Simple enough. If there is scum past e and fonti, it basically has to be you.
well it's not me. so PoE? I haven't done the PoE, but you and lio are both candidates. Lio not so much because I still townread him based on his play.
in any case @fonti - so you don't know who the remaining scum is? Which means if we let you live for tonight you'll have to guess?
WW is not a candidate for you? interesting
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Dear mafia,
Fontisian is totally not bulletproof tonight.
The only way she can win is by deflecting a mafia shot on Night 5. Thus she will be saving it for night 5. Therefore you should shoot her tonight.
Totally.
Not bulletproof.
(Nalled it.)
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Sorry, I meant third scum faction.
If I'm wrong about it, it's because getting info from faust is like trying to squeeze blood from a lemon.
I do not know who the remaining scum is. But hey, I've gotten three, so I have a decent track record.
What exactly did your result on e say? What reason do you have to suspect a third scum faction?
On N1 there were 0 deaths not cause by fontisian
On N2 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Seprix)
On N3 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Melisandre)
Looks like just the mafia to me.
It's like, I need to kill everyone to win, with an exception. And I don't know anything about the exception, except that it exists. That has to be a fourth party, right?
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I don't know that but nothing else makes any sense.
Tend to agree.
There are 4 scenarios on the table here. I'll lay them out from most likely to least likely. (BIG gaps in likelihood between these)
1) fonti is an SK as claimed, e is mafia and one other is mafia. (we should lynch e)
2) fonti is an SK as claimed, e is mafia and 2 others are mafia. (we should lynch e)
3) fonti is an SK as claimed, got redirected somehow and 2/3 others are mafia. (We should lynch who we think is scummiest - probably e anyway, but MAYBE fonti)
4) fonti and RR are concocting something, there's someone else out there, I'd guess silver, also killing, probably an SK. (we should lynch fonti)
I dunno guys, seems fairly clearcut to me.
One thing is: how have noone's results been affected by gkrieg's bus drive? I would have thought we'd have seen some sign of that.
PPE. lio. I tend to agree with your death analysis. N1 is interesting, it means that whoever claimed jailkeeper probably saved someone? We should look at that. (or e, I guess, but I cannot see town!e here really)
PPE. fonti. Not necessarily. That might be a flavour thing. Like, one scum can live because you're flavour-buddies with them.
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Vote: fontisian
My claim didn't back me in a corner, my claim validates me. With all the investigation you seriously think scum doesn't have some sort of ninja/bus driver/nexus/whatever? I would not be surprised if Melisandre was ninja killed N1, but my doctor saved him. Because scum is going to doctor their own kill N1. But oh wait, we were the evil masterminds who predicted this claiming scenario back on N1.....right.....
I think font/lio/RR make the most sense as remaining scum. Their claims all line up. Fontisian could very well be SK, but maybe they are in communication in some way? I don't know.
There can't be more than 3 scum remaining, or the game would be over. I mean, possibly multiple factions to add up to 4 scum, but either way. Scum need one mislynch. I am a great target for that. I just don't think they were expecting my claim but now they just have to power through with it since they committed
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Sorry, I meant third scum faction.
If I'm wrong about it, it's because getting info from faust is like trying to squeeze blood from a lemon.
I do not know who the remaining scum is. But hey, I've gotten three, so I have a decent track record.
What exactly did your result on e say? What reason do you have to suspect a third scum faction?
On N1 there were 0 deaths not cause by fontisian
On N2 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Seprix)
On N3 there was 1 death not caused by fontisian (Melisandre)
Looks like just the mafia to me.
It's like, I need to kill everyone to win, with an exception. And I don't know anything about the exception, except that it exists. That has to be a fourth party, right?
You don't know your own wincon in full? Wow. Probably you win if it's just you and a mafia left or something.
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Lio: Maybe? I'd like to repeat that life sucks and then you die.
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Lol, yeah, I'm with RR. That's why he outed me.
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Let's examine both separately.
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch SK -> 3 - 2 LyLo
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and scum gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
... Two Scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch SK -> Lose
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and SK get shot -> Lose
... Town and Mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Mafia and SK gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
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There is only one remotely plausible scenario where we shouldn't lynch e today:
Oh wait, it doesn't work. Okay, we're lynching e. But no voting yet.
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So in the second scenario, we can only win by letting font alive.
And in the first scenario, we probably have higher chances by leaving her alive, too.
So this does point towards lynching e first, however that's a) what font wants us to conclude, and b) falls apart if e is actually town.
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Vote: fontisian
My claim didn't back me in a corner, my claim validates me. With all the investigation you seriously think scum doesn't have some sort of ninja/bus driver/nexus/whatever? I would not be surprised if Melisandre was ninja killed N1, but my doctor saved him. Because scum is going to doctor their own kill N1. But oh wait, we were the evil masterminds who predicted this claiming scenario back on N1.....right.....
I think font/lio/RR make the most sense as remaining scum. Their claims all line up. Fontisian could very well be SK, but maybe they are in communication in some way? I don't know.
There can't be more than 3 scum remaining, or the game would be over. I mean, possibly multiple factions to add up to 4 scum, but either way. Scum need one mislynch. I am a great target for that. I just don't think they were expecting my claim but now they just have to power through with it since they committed
I think the explanation for the nokill night 1 is that Seprix jailkept e.
Just been rereading. Seprix's two scumreads were ADK and e. Pretty much just those two. lio maybe. But I think it's very likely that e was jailkept. Which makes him conf!scum.
Other possibility is that Seprix jailkept ADK and that saved him. I don't see it though. We also basically know that Seprix jailkept scum because that's how they knew to kill him (neighbourising).
Also I don't see mafia killing ADK, he had a fair number of votes against him D1 and was a potential mislynch, esp. since he started the Awaclus wagon.
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Let's examine both separately.
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch SK -> 3 - 2 LyLo
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and scum gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
... Two Scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch SK -> Lose
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and SK get shot -> Lose
... Town and Mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Mafia and SK gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
I like how 2 - 1 - 1 is a loss in the first place and potentially winnable in the second.
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Yes that pretty much convinces me. No way Seprix jailkept town, so the only explanation for the kill is that Seprix prevented it by jailkeeping one of his scumreads, which can only really be e at this point. lio perhaps but recent events make lio very towny.
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And lio didn't seem to be Seprix's main scumread.
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Yes that pretty much convinces me. No way Seprix jailkept town, so the only explanation for the kill is that Seprix prevented it by jailkeeping one of his scumreads, which can only really be e at this point. lio perhaps but recent events make lio very towny.
or mafia also killed ichi
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I like how 2 - 1 - 1 is a loss in the first place and potentially winnable in the second.
Good catch, that's potentially winnable in the first case, too.
if the pseudo scum does not control the kill, it is winnable just by lynching font then. If he does, we need weird NK shenanigans.
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Yes that pretty much convinces me. No way Seprix jailkept town, so the only explanation for the kill is that Seprix prevented it by jailkeeping one of his scumreads, which can only really be e at this point. lio perhaps but recent events make lio very towny.
or mafia also killed ichi
OK yeah this is all under the assumption that fonti is telling the truth, I guess. In which case e could still be town by redirect nonsense, but this pretty much kills that idea. If fonti is telling the truth e is conf!scum to my mind even with redirect nonsense.
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I think silver is a good shot tonight. Any other thoughts?
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OK, so on the assumption that we end up lynching e, I would
PseudoVote: silver
as fonti's kill.
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I would still like us to hold off on ending today.
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I will also:
PseudoVote: silver
Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
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OK, so on the assumption that we end up lynching e, I would
PseudoVote: silver
as fonti's kill.
but then we don't win. I want to win.
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To be honest, I think 3-scum+SK left is unlikely enough to want to kill fonti anyway.
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Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
Well as it looks now, if she tries to kill a townie then she might accidentally hit a scum.
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To be honest, I think 3-scum+SK left is unlikely enough to want to kill fonti anyway.
Then it will hopefully be a 5 player lylo. You think we'll win by lynching e and then silverspawn then?
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I am all about killing claimed scum. It worked with iguana
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I will also:
PseudoVote: silver
Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
Because if she does, either she gets killed by mafia or the game eventually reaches a kingmaker scenario in which case we kill her for lying to us.
To be honest, I think 3-scum+SK left is unlikely enough to want to kill fonti anyway.
Then it will hopefully be a 5 player lylo. You think we'll win by lynching e and then silverspawn then?
e I think almost certainly. The final one, not so sure.
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Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
Well as it looks now, if she tries to kill a townie then she might accidentally hit a scum.
She is confident I am town and is correct, so nope.
I will also:
PseudoVote: silver
Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
Because if she does, either she gets killed by mafia or the game eventually reaches a kingmaker scenario in which case we kill her for lying to us.
To be honest, I think 3-scum+SK left is unlikely enough to want to kill fonti anyway.
Then it will hopefully be a 5 player lylo. You think we'll win by lynching e and then silverspawn then?
e I think almost certainly. The final one, not so sure.
Yeah, it being you or WW instead of silver makes me hesitate enough to not want to do that.
If we lynch e and have fontisian kill ss it's okay even if ss is town. Town never plays kingmaker.
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I will also:
PseudoVote: silver
Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
/I can't win/
I couldn't win the moment RR claimed. The only thing left for me is choosing the terms of my defeat. I choose to destroy the scum team I've been hunting for three weeks. I choose to be the sk that shot only prs in early game and only mafia in late game.
I am a fontisian. I do not go quietly.
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I will also:
PseudoVote: silver
Problem is, why wouldn't fontisian opt to kill a townie instead?
/I can't win/
I couldn't win the moment RR claimed. The only thing left for me is choosing the terms of my defeat. I choose to destroy the scum team I've been hunting for three weeks. I choose to be the sk that shot only prs in early game and only mafia in late game.
I am a fontisian. I do not go quietly.
It is still possible for you to win and you know it too, otherwise you would have continued to pretend to be town.
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If we lynch e and have fontisian kill ss it's okay even if ss is town. Town never plays kingmaker.
This is only true if mafia choose to kill fonti.
If mafia and fonti both hit scum, town kingmake in the 2-1-1 (A no lynch just means that mafia and SK both win, I think, based on fonti's alternate win condition)
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If mafia and fonti both hit town*
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Why? I was outed, it was obvious.
The only way I win is if I kill mafia tonight, they shoot town, and you guys lynch outside of me tomorrow, and I don't die that night. This is a path that involves me killing mafia for you.
If a shoot a town, then mafia and town just lynch me, as they have every right to.
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Do you really think there's any way in that kingmaker scenario I don't just get lynched after breaking my word? Really?
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No. That's kinda my point. But lio was saying that kingmaking doesn't happen (presumably suggesting the no-lynch there, which I'm pretty sure is not the way to go, since it leaves the mafia+SK-both-win door open).
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No. That's kinda my point. But lio was saying that kingmaking doesn't happen (presumably suggesting the no-lynch there, which I'm pretty sure is not the way to go, since it leaves the mafia+SK-both-win door open).
Part of me does not want to explain this until it happens, but I expect 2-1-1 is a town win.
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Why? I was outed, it was obvious.
The only way I win is if I kill mafia tonight, they shoot town, and you guys lynch outside of me tomorrow, and I don't die that night. This is a path that involves me killing mafia for you.
If a shoot a town, then mafia and town just lynch me, as they have every right to.
No, because then (assuming what you are saying is true, which it isn't) it would be 4 people alive (lynch, 2 NKs)
Which then gives us 2 town, SK, scum. So lynching you tomorrow makes us lose again.
Now, we lynch you, scum kills, it is now 5 town, 2 scum (most likely) and we are in lylo. If it is actually 3 scum + SK I doubt a scenario exists where town wins
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No. That's kinda my point. But lio was saying that kingmaking doesn't happen (presumably suggesting the no-lynch there, which I'm pretty sure is not the way to go, since it leaves the mafia+SK-both-win door open).
Part of me does not want to explain this until it happens, but I expect 2-1-1 is a town win.
Not seeing it
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I never aim to shoot town in the first place, because it puts me in a spot where I'm always lynched.
Oh wait, it's e talking. Never mind.
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So I went back and looked at j Reggie to help my claim, but unfortunately for me, everything points to him targeting seprix. I can only assume results were muddled somehow on N1.
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Lets say we get to 2-1-1.
In the presence of fonti's alternate win condition, (if we say it lets her win with one scum left), this seems a guaranteed win for fonti+scum, they just openly coordinate.
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Hence fonti SHOULD kill town tonight as a possible win condition.
So we should lynch fonti? Right?
Unless lio would like to explain further.
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Lets say we get to 2-1-1.
In the presence of fonti's alternate win condition, (if we say it lets her win with one scum left), this seems a guaranteed win for fonti+scum, they just openly coordinate.
We don't know that's what her wincon is. It could be for some sort of other stalemate position. In fact I think this is what it is.
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Lets say we get to 2-1-1.
In the presence of fonti's alternate win condition, (if we say it lets her win with one scum left), this seems a guaranteed win for fonti+scum, they just openly coordinate.
We don't know that's what her wincon is. It could be for some sort of other stalemate position. In fact I think this is what it is.
"this" meaning what, sorry?
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Lio can you confirm D2?
I actually can't confirm this, because I don't have an active power.
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I think I MAYBE understand. Or have a theory.
Lio, who do you think we should lynch today?
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I think I MAYBE understand. Or have a theory.
Lio, who do you think we should lynch today?
I still want to lynch e and have fontisian kill silver.
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I probably come down on that side of things as well, in spite of everything.
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I think I'd rather lynch fontisian and hope for the 3/2 mylo.
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If there were 3 scum and fonti left, who could they be?
I'd say RR, silver and e. Probably. I need to think about that possibility, because it's the only one in which lynching fonti is the wrong thing to do.
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Lets say we get to 2-1-1.
In the presence of fonti's alternate win condition, (if we say it lets her win with one scum left), this seems a guaranteed win for fonti+scum, they just openly coordinate.
Ok, but I don't think that's what it means. :/
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
OK.
I'm still not certain lynching you isn't the right thing to do. (Sorry, I know it sucks for you, but as you mentioned, you basically can't win anyway.)
The ONLY scenario in which lynching you is wrong is if there are 3 scum left.
You think it's 2 scum + some other faction. Maybe that's so, but the final faction can't kill. That's pretty clear. So probably we can win with them too. In which case killing you is definitely right.
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
OK.
I'm still not certain lynching you isn't the right thing to do. (Sorry, I know it sucks for you, but as you mentioned, you basically can't win anyway.)
The ONLY scenario in which lynching you is wrong is if there are 3 scum left.
You think it's 2 scum + some other faction. Maybe that's so, but the final faction can't kill. That's pretty clear. So probably we can win with them too. In which case killing you is definitely right.
It's wrong with two mafia as well.
Going into night with 4-1-1 is better than a less-than-guarranteed 3-player lylo.
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
Could it be a win with town thing?
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
OK.
I'm still not certain lynching you isn't the right thing to do. (Sorry, I know it sucks for you, but as you mentioned, you basically can't win anyway.)
The ONLY scenario in which lynching you is wrong is if there are 3 scum left.
You think it's 2 scum + some other faction. Maybe that's so, but the final faction can't kill. That's pretty clear. So probably we can win with them too. In which case killing you is definitely right.
It's wrong with two mafia as well.
Going into night with 4-1-1 is better than a less-than-guarranteed 3-player lylo.
Disagree. I think the 2-1-1 is bad, even though I have a theory that makes it less bad than it looks. And I think fonti would be correct to kill town, and so would scum. And I think they'd target in such a way as to nullify my theory.
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That kind of goes against the whole serial killer thing?
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
Could it be a win with town thing?
No, that would be to good to be true.
4-1-1 at night can lead to a few scenarios:
- We win. Yay!
- 4 player mylo with fontisian. We win, yay!
- 4 player mylo with a mafia. Better odds than a 3-player lylo, especially because fontisian probably didn't kill obvtown.
- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
Whereas if we lynch fontisian and silver is town we probaby lose. I'd be especially concerned f Haddock or WW support lynching fontisian.
It takes four to lynch. RR, fontisian, and I will all vote for e. e votes for fontisian. Only if all three of ss, haddock, and WW vote for fontisian will that happen, in which case I just don't know who the last mafia is any more.
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Like, I don't think it's a win with mafia thing at all.
OK.
I'm still not certain lynching you isn't the right thing to do. (Sorry, I know it sucks for you, but as you mentioned, you basically can't win anyway.)
The ONLY scenario in which lynching you is wrong is if there are 3 scum left.
You think it's 2 scum + some other faction. Maybe that's so, but the final faction can't kill. That's pretty clear. So probably we can win with them too. In which case killing you is definitely right.
It's wrong with two mafia as well.
Going into night with 4-1-1 is better than a less-than-guarranteed 3-player lylo.
Disagree. I think the 2-1-1 is bad, even though I have a theory that makes it less bad than it looks. And I think fonti would be correct to kill town, and so would scum. And I think they'd target in such a way as to nullify my theory.
No, wait. OK. If my theory is correct, then lynching mafia is the way to go, and we get fonti to kill another mafia, which it would be in her interest to do (in the presence of my theory). Then it just relies on fonti/us being correct in who we kill.
- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
This is where we disagree.
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- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
This is where we disagree.
Like, you must be implying the existence of some PR that saves us in this scenario. In which case, what's to stop mafia killing that PR?
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I'm not so sure that mafia and fontisian will gun for town, and they also might accidentally shoot the same person. 3-1-1 would be very good for us because we can just lynch fontisian then mafia.
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- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
This is where we disagree.
Like, you must be implying the existence of some PR that saves us in this scenario. In which case, what's to stop mafia killing that PR?
I thought you already had a theory about that?
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- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
This is where we disagree.
Like, you must be implying the existence of some PR that saves us in this scenario. In which case, what's to stop mafia killing that PR?
I thought you already had a theory about that?
I have a theory about what the PR might be that could save us there.
But presumably mafia have the same thoughts and might aim to kill that PR. Even if not, they might kill that PR by accident.
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- 2-1-1. Like I said, this is OK.
This is where we disagree.
Like, you must be implying the existence of some PR that saves us in this scenario. In which case, what's to stop mafia killing that PR?
I thought you already had a theory about that?
I have a theory about what the PR might be that could save us there.
But presumably mafia have the same thoughts and might aim to kill that PR. Even if not, they might kill that PR by accident.
In this case I think your theory is wrong, I guess?
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I wouldn't mind some advice and arguments on who to shoot.
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I wouldn't mind some advice and arguments on who to shoot.
not me.
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Oh darn, fontisian's bulletproof really complicates things :(
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Well. I.
Ugh.
I want to say a thing but if I do it might be super harmful.
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Well. I.
Ugh.
I want to say a thing but if I do it might be super harmful.
unless it relates to your own role, don't say it.
Which reminds me. WW, Haddock, and ss, any of you feel like claiming anything?
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I don't think anyone should claim.
If there's a pr out there, even VTs claiming will help scum a LOT by PoE
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I don't think anyone should claim.
If there's a pr out there, even VTs claiming will help scum a LOT by PoE
If they are VTs they should not claim, of course. Only if they are a PR with something helpful to say.
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I don't think anyone should claim.
If there's a pr out there, even VTs claiming will help scum a LOT by PoE
If they are VTs they should not claim, of course. Only if they are a PR with something helpful to say.
Yes.
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I think we should mass claim
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I don't.
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I wouldn't mind some advice and arguments on who to shoot.
not me.
Yes, thanks, I'll just shoot that not me guy.
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I think we should mass claim
I think scum wants to mass claim.
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Mrs Hudson looks at John. "This young man came, the one Sherlock has been working with before. He said he needed to get something for Sherlock, so I let him into his room. Only a couple of minutes later, I heard shouts from the room; someone had broken in, there was fighting. I did not dare to enter. When the noise was gone, I found him like this."
Bill Wiggins lies in the middle of the room, bruised all over, and on his neck the same strangle marks John has seen before. Around him, the room is in complete disarray. Clearly someone has been searching it. But was it Bill, or his killer?
"Has Bill said anything else?" Molly asks.
"He inquired about Sherlock's most recent investigation. Something to do with a cat?"
John is baffled. How did Bill know about this? Did Sherlock inform him? But how? He is under constant surveillance. Or, maybe...
"We need to go." John says, pulling Molly away.
"What? Where?"
"We need to visit a certain veterinary surgeon."
Lucky for them, the taxi was still waiting. John tells him the adress. The speaker in the radio annouces that Britain has voted to leave the EU. Great. John thinks. Just when I thought this day couldn't get any worse.
Vote Count 4.2
fontisian (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (6): liopoil, fontisian, silverspawn, Haddock, 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Roadrunner7671
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends June 29 at 9 am forum time.
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I think we should mass claim
I think scum wants to mass claim.
So I guess you're with me on this one?
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I think we should mass claim
I think scum wants to mass claim.
So I guess you're with me on this one?
Good one. No. I have already full claimed, I don't think anyone who has not already should have to
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Well, since you're here e, can you explain a scenario where all of the following are true?
-You are town
-I am town
-Fontisian is SK
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Well, since you're here e, can you explain a scenario where all of the following are true?
-You are town
-I am town
-Fontisian is SK
RR and silverspawn are scum.
So right now, scum->town
Conf!scum!fontisian
RR
Liopoil
Silverspawn
Haddock (he is a tricky one)
Witherweaver
Conf!town!e
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Well, since you're here e, can you explain a scenario where all of the following are true?
-You are town
-I am town
-Fontisian is SK
Maybe I am missing some claim that makes what I am saying impossible, because you sound like this should be a hard thing to do.
To be honest, with everything that has gone down today I think you make the most sense with RR and fontisian, but I could see silverspawn in there
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I have my full claim. Fontisian can confirm this! So scum and the SK are in cahoots?
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I don't see how RR and Fontisian are partners here.
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I have my full claim. Fontisian can confirm this! So scum and the SK are in cahoots?
Isn't it great when scum work together?
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Falling behind slightly and will catch up tonight.
I still lean towards lynching fonti. It's a better deal in every scenario except the one where there are 3 mafia left. Which seems unlikely.
Letting fonti shoot for scum is probably no better than letting us lynch the proposed scum, and comes with the problem that fonti might be lying about one thing or another, somehow making it beneficial for her to shoot town instead.
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I don't see how RR and Fontisian are partners here.
Ok, assume that they aren't partners. Like, they are actually sk/scum, different factions. It is very convenient for them that at no time did scum/sk target the same person as a NK. I mean, sure. N1, large enough game. N2, still plenty of targets. N3, targeting 3 different people for kills on three different people. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it is staying to get harder to see.
Now, maybe not direct collaboration, but possibly SK has access to the scum qt without scums knowledge. I don't know
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I don't see how RR and Fontisian are partners here.
Ok, assume that they aren't partners. Like, they are actually sk/scum, different factions. It is very convenient for them that at no time did scum/sk target the same person as a NK. I mean, sure. N1, large enough game. N2, still plenty of targets. N3, targeting 3 different people for kills on three different people. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it is staying to get harder to see.
Now, maybe not direct collaboration, but possibly SK has access to the scum qt without scums knowledge. I don't know
Huh? Then SK would just know the scum team. Surely that can't happen.
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The other option is to lynch e. I cannot bring myself to believe that e is town here.
Pros of lynching e:
We potentially get an extra mafia kill from fonti.
Some nebulous 2-1-1 win scenario which lio is talking about.
Only way to win if there are 3 mafia left.
Potentially allows mafia and SK to wipe each other tonight.
Cons of lynching e:
He might maybe be town. Unlikely but possible.
Lets fonti potentially shoot town (whether by following what town think about who scum is or not), leading to what looks like a likely defeat.
Leaves two scum factions, more kills is generally bad. We don't know what powers they may have.
I don't see how RR and Fontisian are partners here.
Ok, assume that they aren't partners. Like, they are actually sk/scum, different factions. It is very convenient for them that at no time did scum/sk target the same person as a NK. I mean, sure. N1, large enough game. N2, still plenty of targets. N3, targeting 3 different people for kills on three different people. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it is staying to get harder to see.
Now, maybe not direct collaboration, but possibly SK has access to the scum qt without scums knowledge. I don't know
This is an outright scumslip. He can only know this if he knows that scum did not target Ichi on N1.
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I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
Wait.. you had a guilty result on Font from the beginning of the day. Why did you wait until Fonti made a case against e?
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RR's beginning Day 4 posts:
Gkrieg's vote is one I can get behind.
Vote: ADK
Wait what does this mean? Why did you wait for me to vote?
Indeed, what DOES this mean?
I was already voting for ADK, it was a joke to demonstrate how confident I was that he was scum (I'd vote for him twice if I could). Obviously that looks scummy now, but I think 2.7 will be a more likely lynch today.
I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
E, claim your role. Now.
What?
Things and stuff.
Come on. All I do is phone post, it's not that bad. Care to elaborate?
Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
Theory time: Fontisian is a scum tracker, and Iguanaiguana was put on the spot so he claimed tracker because it was the first thing he thought of, seeing as he already knew of a tracker.
.. I doubt that. I don't think it adds up.
It adds up perfectly, it's just out of the box.
Vote: Fontisian
I have a cop result!!!!
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I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
Wait.. you had a guilty result on Font from the beginning of the day. Why did you wait until Fonti made a case against e?
I didn't check my QT
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I'm not scum. Can you guys humor me and not vote for me? I personally am going to look for interactions with gkrieg.
Wait.. you had a guilty result on Font from the beginning of the day. Why did you wait until Fonti made a case against e?
I didn't check my QT
.... really?
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I'm not sure it matters about RR.
It kinda does. In that it's essentially only possible for e to be town if fonti and RR are collaborating. So yeah. RR could be lying. But if he is, we should lynch fonti anyway and sort out e and RR later.
RR might be lying and e still be scum. RR+e mafia and SK!fonti is not impossible.
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Ok, I assumed scum did not target ichi. Scumslip. Yay. Let's lynch me now.
Seriously? That's the best you have?
1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Also, lynching me (even if I am scum) is absolutely handing the game to fontisian.
Let's assume I am wrong about everything.
Fontisian is SK. I am scum. I have a mysterious partner somewhere out there (for the sake of the argument let's call this person "RR"). All you other guys are town
Lynch me. I flip. Who does fontisian shoot? My partner? Of course not. People play to their win cons. They don't play to lose unless they are just awful. Fontisian will shoot town.
Let's say font is BP as claimed (1-shot). Scum shoots font, survives.
5 alive, scum+sk
Lynch font, scum kills town.
3 alive, 1 scum
OK, theoretically that does work. But it actually doesn't because the base assumption is wrong
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To my mind e is conf!scum here. Nonetheless, lynching fonti seems better to me.
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Back to my scenario, if scum neglects to shoot font and instead kills town it is that 2-1-1 situation which is just ugly. Don't really know what to make of that
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1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Except it's practically inconceivable that Seprix didn't jailkeep you. So you shouldn't have been able to do anything, and moreover you should know this.
It's likelier that Seprix targetted scum, if he targetted still-alive town they would have claimed the neighbourhood by now. So he could only otherwise have targetted:
Reggie, Melisandre, Jan. And Meli or Jan would have claimed neighbourhood when Seprix died, almost certainly.
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1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Except it's practically inconceivable that Seprix didn't jailkeep you.
How do you get that? Like, really? What evidence is there for that?
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1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Except it's practically inconceivable that Seprix didn't jailkeep you.
How do you get that? Like, really? What evidence is there for that?
Because I missed where this was established fact
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1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Except it's practically inconceivable that Seprix didn't jailkeep you.
How do you get that? Like, really? What evidence is there for that?
Anyone can see this from rereading Seprix in the second half of D1.
Nonetheless I will happily give a case for this when I get home.
You should in the meantime at least concede the Seprix must have targetted scum on N1.
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1) I have it in my mind that scum targeted Melisandre (probably with ninja) for the nk because I protected Melisandre and we are missing a kill. Granted, what I view as fact you view with skepticism, so I will allow it.
Except it's practically inconceivable that Seprix didn't jailkeep you.
How do you get that? Like, really? What evidence is there for that?
Anyone can see this from rereading Seprix in the second half of D1.
Nonetheless I will happily give a case for this when I get home.
You should in the meantime at least concede the Seprix must have targetted scum on N1.
Yes, I forgot about the neighborhood thing. It is conceivable
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But he didn't target me
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But he didn't target me
Therefore, I am not scum the logic is flawless except for the logical fallacies
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So my Internet is down in my flat and am running out of mobile data.
Hence I'm essentially vla til tomorrow. :(
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If we lynch fontisian I just don't trust:
1) That we win for sure if we lynch only mafia afterwards
2) That we can lynch the rest of the mafia correctly afterwards
WW, who do you currently want to lynch?
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I want to lynch e then blindly trust a serial killer.
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Well, since you're here e, can you explain a scenario where all of the following are true?
-You are town
-I am town
-Fontisian is SK
RR and silverspawn are scum.
So right now, scum->town
Conf!scum!fontisian
RR
Liopoil
Silverspawn
Haddock (he is a tricky one)
Witherweaver
Conf!town!e
Roadrunner a confirmed motivator. You think a motivator could be scum? You also need to explain why fontisian decided to go after you before RR claimed a result on her.
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If we lynch fontisian I just don't trust:
1) That we win for sure if we lynch only mafia afterwards
2) That we can lynch the rest of the mafia correctly afterwards
WW, who do you currently want to lynch?
No one until I read everything.
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Holy shit, I can't win if I shoot town Tonight. I. Can't. I always, always get lynched afterwards. Shooting scum a. Let's me try to game solve and b. Maybe gives me a chance to win if town gets paranoid or if something happens with my other wincon??? But, I'm always trying to shoot scum tonight.
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Holy shit, I can't win if I shoot town Tonight. I. Can't. I always, always get lynched afterwards. Shooting scum a. Let's me try to game solve and b. Maybe gives me a chance to win if town gets paranoid or if something happens with my other wincon??? But, I'm always trying to shoot scum tonight.
Why would we lynch afterwards you if it makes us lose?
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Because it's better to kill the scum that betrayed you than the scum that didn't. How else would you enforce bargains in the longterm?
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Because it's better to kill the scum that betrayed you than the scum that didn't. How else would you enforce bargains in the longterm?
It isn't possible to enforce bargains in the longterm.
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Because it's better to kill the scum that betrayed you than the scum that didn't. How else would you enforce bargains in the longterm?
Are you claiming to have "not betrayed town"?!?!
Seriously? How many town have you claimed to kill? Ichi, {J Reggie/seprix}, Jan. I count 3 town deaths you claim to be accountable for, yet you never betrayed town. Right.
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Uh, what? I haven't had an agreement with the town until now.
Jesus, you guys really haven't negotiated with third parties before, have you.
Alright, so negotiating in these circumstances is all about meta, both for the individual and community. On an individual level, it's important to build up a level of trust, by honoring these sorts of agreements. On the community side, it's important to punish individuals who cheat, so to say, on the arangment. That is why you should always lynch me if I don't comply, because it will encourage the next person in my position to comply.
It's an extended series of prisoner dilemmas, and historically they lead to more cooperation than not. See: civilization.
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Uh, what? I haven't had an agreement with the town until now.
Jesus, you guys really haven't negotiated with third parties before, have you.
Alright, so negotiating in these circumstances is all about meta, both for the individual and community. On an individual level, it's important to build up a level of trust, by honoring these sorts of agreements. On the community side, it's important to punish individuals who cheat, so to say, on the arangment. That is why you should always lynch me if I don't comply, because it will encourage the next person in my position to comply.
It's an extended series of prisoner dilemmas, and historically they lead to more cooperation than not. See: civilization.
It's exactly a repeated series of prisoner's dilemmas, and note that for any finite number of those the optimal play is to defect every time. Luckily civilizations don't play optimally which turns out to be a very good thing. In a game I expect you to play optimally though.
Certainly we have had third parties negotiate or at least try to before. In every case one of the following happens:
-It was the right choice not to negotiate
-Negotiating turned out badly for town
-Negotiating worked out, but only because the third party made a mistake
-Negotiating worked out because it was actually to the third party's wincon to play nice
So we will only make deals with you when it is actually to your wincon to uphold your end. It's not clear whether it is or not.
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False, betraying every time is the right thing to do in one prisoner dilemma, but the wrong thing in an extended series, where you can be held accountable for your actions.
Also, there's no true betray action for me here, because you can always punish me for it.
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Let's try this argument: the longer I live, the more likely it is that my alt wincon may be discovered. Playing by your roles let's me live longer. Etc.
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Let's try this argument: the longer I live, the more likely it is that my alt wincon may be discovered. Playing by your roles let's me live longer. Etc.
This is why you might in fact actually try to shoot mafia. What more do you know about your alt wincon?
False, betraying every time is the right thing to do in one prisoner dilemma, but the wrong thing in an extended series, where you can be held accountable for your actions.
Also, there's no true betray action for me here, because you can always punish me for it.
We are capable of punishing you but ultimately have no incentive to do so, as it not only will not help our wincon but also does not deter anyone from betraying in a later game. Betraying is still the right thing in any finite series, and I can prove it if you want.
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It's not that I don't believe you, I just think you'll shoot town when you try to shoot scum.
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Re alt wincon: It's Day 3 and I know nothing. My hopes are slim.
Re incentives: Say I betray and one remaining mafia hits another town. We go into final 4 with two town, an sk and a mafia. The towns become the kingmaker, and get to lynch me out of spite or whatever. There's no incentive for me to go into that scenario.
Say I betray and there are three mafia. I get lynched. No incentive.
If I shoot a mafia, there's a chance the game continues, ??? happens and I get a shot at winning. I also enhance my reputation of cooperation and skill, which, frankly is more important to me than any individual game.
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SO HELP ME TRY TO HIT SCUM!
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Talk to me about reads, go over e and gkrieg's iso and look for partners or clears, help me figure this out.
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I'm won over. I believe this is our only hope. So I can go with it.
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Also, gkrieg (in my opinion) is good at distancing partners. If I was you, I'd reread 2.7 and look for his partner instead.
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Talk to me about reads, go over e and gkrieg's iso and look for partners or clears, help me figure this out.
makes sense. tomorrow, maybe.
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I am me, and I'm looking at them, but I'm not omniscient, and I don't know any of you, so please, get off your asses and help.
The towniest thing in the world is gamesolving. So, gamesolve!
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It would be easier to 'gamesolve' if
A. It wasn't a closed setup
B. Everyone wasn't against mass claiming
C. It's not a closed setup
D. All of the above
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Re alt wincon: It's Day 3 and I know nothing. My hopes are slim.
Re incentives: Say I betray and one remaining mafia hits another town. We go into final 4 with two town, an sk and a mafia. The towns become the kingmaker, and get to lynch me out of spite or whatever. There's no incentive for me to go into that scenario.
Say I betray and there are three mafia. I get lynched. No incentive.
If I shoot a mafia, there's a chance the game continues, ??? happens and I get a shot at winning. I also enhance my reputation of cooperation and skill, which, frankly is more important to me than any individual game.
I feel weird giving you reasons to gun for town, but town absolutely does not play kingmaker in 2-1-1.
I don't know, I think it's fairly clear-cut. WW, Haddock, RR, and I are all very towny.
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Hmm I think I know fontisian's alt wincon.
@Haddock, at first it seemed like your theory was very consistent with what I was thinking, but then you said something that made me think you had something else in mind. So I am pretty confused at what you were getting at now. Are you equally confused at what I'm getting at?
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Hey, e, since you're mafia, I have a question for you:
Hypothetically, if it came down to a scenario where your team had no chance to win, but you got to choose whether fontisian or the town wins, who would you choose?
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Hey, e, since you're mafia, I have a question for you:
Hypothetically, if it came down to a scenario where your team had no chance to win, but you got to choose whether fontisian or the town wins, who would you choose?
Funny guy, this liopoil.
It would probably depend on what I ate for breakfast that morning. Pancakes....SK is looking good. Waffles? Might be a bad day for the SK. Who knows.
Again, just started my vacation, I will be checking in, but don't expect anything grounbreaking from me. Specific questions are awesome. Lynching fontisian and actually trying to win the game is awesome.
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Re alt wincon: It's Day 3 and I know nothing. My hopes are slim.
Re incentives: Say I betray and one remaining mafia hits another town. We go into final 4 with two town, an sk and a mafia. The towns become the kingmaker, and get to lynch me out of spite or whatever. There's no incentive for me to go into that scenario.
Say I betray and there are three mafia. I get lynched. No incentive.
If I shoot a mafia, there's a chance the game continues, ??? happens and I get a shot at winning. I also enhance my reputation of cooperation and skill, which, frankly is more important to me than any individual game.
I feel weird giving you reasons to gun for town, but town absolutely does not play kingmaker in 2-1-1.
I don't know, I think it's fairly clear-cut. WW, Haddock, RR, and I are all very towny.
Oh.
Ohhhhh.
P sure I still get shot/die that way.
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Should I motivate Fontisian? I think yes.
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Hmm I think I know fontisian's alt wincon.
@Haddock, at first it seemed like your theory was very consistent with what I was thinking, but then you said something that made me think you had something else in mind. So I am pretty confused at what you were getting at now. Are you equally confused at what I'm getting at?
Yeah I have no idea what you're talking about. Particularly with regards to the 2-1-1. In that situation I basically can't see a picture in which town don't have to just kingmake. (Actually I can, but it relies on a PR, and the PR might just die.)
Should I motivate Fontisian? I think yes.
This seems really really dangerous. It potentially gives fonti a win condition which does not depend on her shooting scum. Not the best idea.
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I tend to agree that by PoE silver is the best target.
WW and I are very towny.
lio is pretty towny.
RR COULD be fakeclaiming but I'm not sure what scum role he could have that makes sense.
So silver is the only one left.
That said, let's say we lynch e and he flips scum (which I'm pretty certain of). Why don't we ask fonti not to kill anyone in that scenario? Then we end up 3-1-1 in the worst case. Maybe fonti will be unwilling to do that though, there's probably no path to her victory down that route.
If she's gonna shoot someone definitely though, then I think it can only be silver.
I think maybe I do half-understand what lio is saying about the 2-1-1. But it's a guess. Still no idea about fonti's alt-win-condition. @fonti, it would really help us if you could explain more about your alt-win condition. I'm starting to doubt that you don't know anything more than what you've told us. You must know more than you've said, surely.
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Okay, so, I should read e first:
First RVS vote is on Gkrieg:
Well there is no WW to vote for so I guess
vote: e. Clear partner interactions there
False. LAL. Vote: gkrieg
And Gkrieg voted for him.
Early posts are replies to not-too-relevant things. Then votes Seprix:
vote: Seprix
A few more posts that don't really have content, such as:
Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.
Then this, not sure if it's a joke or not:
you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
I mean it sounds like a joke but I remember it being quoted (mistakenly?) as a reason for something.
sorry...been really slack here. I still like my seprix vote.
This is true. 570 posts in and no content and one vote. This is classically scummy, but I don't think it's really e's style of scum. Though I've been thinking he's scum in all his recent town games, so what do I know.
Okay, a real post:
Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there.
RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum). So let's leave him be for now.
Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me. Town for now
liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such. Does he really do that as scum? not so sure.
fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist. I am fine keeping it that way on D1.
gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg
silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down. Scummy stuff not really.
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum. Which, could be right or could be wrong. Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now. He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status
Hydrad is so very Hydrad. We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real
I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good. He gets useful reactions out of people.
ADK does ADK stuff. He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.
Reggie is cool. Let's not lynch him
Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy. Half the time it isn't even real. I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to. This half...might actually be a real scum read.
Ichi is town. Because I said so.
Teproc is scum. Because you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.
I could get behind that case
But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.
PPE:2
Right, so this is why that joke quote was confusing. The "Teproc is scum, because" <joke quote about the mod>. Not sure if this is confusion or just a posting mistake. So, doesn't say a lot here but I couldn't say much more at this point in the game. Votes Gkrieg, that's probably the most interesting. Well, he does go out of his way to mention how much he wants to lynch Gkrieg.. he says "Gkrieg is a better lynch" while discussing other votes, even reiterates his case against Gkrieg while talking about Seprix. That could betray a bussing mindset. His reasoning for lynching Gkrieg is that Gkrieg voted e for RVS and left his vote there. So what are the wagons like here?
This is right after Teproc starts a case against Lio. Lio has four votes maybe. Gkrieg just had Ichi, but Ichi had unvoted. So scum!e can either get on the Lio wagon or start something else. Well, if e is scum here, Lio is more likely town, because why start an alternate wagon to your partner with your other partner? If Lio is scum, e is more likely town by the same reasoning. If Lio is town, then this is just distancing for scum!e for exactly this kind of future reread. Of note is that it's a very safe vote on Gkrieg with no real case.
Okay, e doesn't say anything about this growing Lio wagon, he's gone for a bit and:
will work on some focused rereads here shortly (after a league match). starting with people with the biggest wagons and working my way down.
So now on Lio:
So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
This starts out sounding townie by e, good points on Lio's posting. Ends a little too confident in his read.
ADK:
ADK - I like his analysis on a lot of things. Like, for example, in these posts:
How am I doing what I'm describing? Seprix voted for melisandre for having "contrived reads" because it's "too early". I'm saying that that's nonsense, and also suspicious because it's an easy position to take, so I'm voting for him.
I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.
I've landed as town on Melisandre, just because I think town is much more likely to do the reaction-fishing "gotcha" thing. Also probably town on Jan, I might sheep him on liopoil.
Mmm I need to be less literal. I think on average town waffles more than scum, scum tries to look super certain of their reads.
Overall, I think ADK is making a good effort to scumhunt. He doesn't glare town to me like liopoil does, but I think he is definitely on the townier side.
On Jan:
Jan - the first half of all his posts were like 100% questions. All he did. Ask questions and make jokes. Then he continued on and began posting more, questions disappeared, analysis began.
Town points for all the town reads he has given. I like the analysis. A solid null-town read just because I don't know him that well. We have better lynches
Doubles down on Gkrieg:
gkrieg's game has consisted entirely of the following two things:
I like the read/post/etc by X person
I don't like the read/post/etc by Y person
So yeah, a lot of 'input' by gkrieg but nothing that is difficult for him. Just going off whatever other people say. I am happy keeping my vote here.
This is kind of similar to what I think I remember seeing when reading Gkrieg.. much more reactive than proactive. Interesting that he doesn't actually post any quotes on this 'reread' (i.e., he doesn't actually need to read partner!Gkrieg), but he didn't for Jan also.
Seprix:
Seprix. He has that early vote on Melisandre because of the RVS reads post. I mean, it is a nice little vote that he has decent enough reason for and defends it well. Very protective of his vote, which could go either way. I know I like to vote with a case and defend it well as scum or town. I think really the one thing that we can learn from it is that Melisandre and Seprix are not scum together. One might be, or the other....but not both. Basically, if you are going to vote for your partner you don't mistakenly vote for Jan. You vote for your partner.
I am fairly null on Seprix right now. He has been around and had some fun interactions, nothing super townie or scummy so far. I think he lands slightly on the scummy side of null though.
Well I guess he stopped quoting at all. Does this 'player X and Y must share/not share alignments' thing that I don't like. Why isn't whatever made you want to vote Seprix earlier compelling now?
Votes Hydrad:
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
Well, scum!e would have spent almost all the day voting for his partners. I don't like the qualification/explanation on the vote though. It's not really much pressure if you say 'hey I'm trying to pressure you'.
Then reconsiders:
I like Jan's post there. I don't like his conclusion. I do agree that hydrad needs some pressure.
vote: hydrad
nevermind. I actually read Jan's post. Two can play this game:
Jan - very little posts. has made the effort to give 1 post with content on everyone one way or another.
His reads in itself don't rock my world. gives passes to half of the game without giving a read on them.
Reads are either lose meta jibsor just nothing, not a lot of depths to anything. Let me summarize his reads in my own words just to showcase this :
1. liopoil - null
2. gkrieg13 - IF ADK is scum then they might be partners. IF ADK is town then he feels town. So......null then
3. fontisian - null
4. silverspawn - talks a lot....doesn't give any reads....kind of feels null/scum?
5. Roadrunner7671 - town
6. Melisandre - town
7. Seprix - town
8. Hydrad - he needs to post more, wouldn't mind lynching
9. Awaclus - null
10. A Drowned Kernel - scum, but not voting because he is V/LA right now
11. J Reggie - town
12. Haddock - town
13. Ichimaru Gin - town?
14. 2.71828..... - scum because his reads list was awful and I am getting to the end of players and I have to find at least one person scummy
15. Jan - let's call myself scum. They don't seem to react negatively to that here.
16. Teproc - town lean
So he criticizes Jan's read list, and find's Jan scummy. Doesn't really explain why Jan's list is bad.. I guess the implied argument is that it feels constructed.
vote: Jan
yeah, I totally said I liked Jan's post and didn't really read it all that well. I saw he made a little case on me and kind of skimmed the rest. guilty as charged. But going back and really reading it was enlightening. I mean, he did the same thing that he called me scummy for.
And yeah, that null-town read I had earlier. Well, let's switch it to scummy. I mean, seriously, everything I called him town for I could also call him scum for. Nice how early reads can progress. All those questions to get a feel for the game before jumping in exactly where he was comfortable to insure he didn't slip up in an unfamiliar environment. How is that for twisting around what I said to make it sound scummy?
Lots of explanation for voting here.
So let's see how much i remember of this game :
1. liopoil
Unsure - poor reactions to the pressure. Poor reads so far. I dislike the fonti/lio thing.
Also, leave your vote there on liopoil. I mean, he is the biggest wagon and you helped start it. Have to try to keep those scum wagons viable as long as possible. The longer the idea of a liopoil lynch is on people's minds, the more likely it is to actually happen.
Probably just forgot to vote for me. Or for himself, for that matter. I mean, we are the only two real scum based on that reread. But now it will be OMGUS for you not for me, since I voted you first.
Kind of prods Jan a bit more.. makes e seem less scum here.
guys....RR just went crazy. I don't know what to do.
Have you met RR before?
Anyway, I don't see this coming from anything but town!RR. So yeah, you will live to D3. I will prepare.
I don't agree. Though, that one game e modded where RR was scum, e claimed to gain an understanding of scum!RR. He could have that in his mind here, as scum, to 'read' RR with confidence.
This resurgence of the liopoil wagon is interesting. I think Jan is a much better option than liopoil. I will be around on my phone all day to vote to get a lynch. Whatever we do, we need a lynch today.
Continues to push Jan, prefers him over Lio. Gkrieg and Seprix are forgotten. Actually I think if you're a scum busser here, you remember to throw in your partner. "I think Jan is a much better option than Lio.. could also do partner!Grkeig or mislynch!Seprix". This is less valid if Lio is scum.
So. Liopoil. Opens the game with a bit of fun. The scumslip argument (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603172#msg603172)....'next person to vote reggie' (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603198#msg603198) thing...we should make more dominion references (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603225#msg603225)...yeah. These are all liopoil getting into the game, getting comfortable. Finding his groove. Nothing wrong with that. I actually like the general flow and ease with which he posts these. Would have to be very contrived for scum!liopoil to be doing, and it doesn't look like that at all.
Then he jumps right into the game with some good input (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603409#msg603409) and a vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603410#msg603410). There is nothing scummy about this at all. In fact, I find it quite townie.
Continuing on we get a bunch of other posts....none of them scummy. Basically, shame on you guys for thinking liopoil is scum. Totally town.
That being said, I find jan's unvote interesting. He doesn't immediately jump on the liopoil wagon (which makes sense from a self preservation perspective). But he doesn't close the door on it either. Doesn't want to be on a mislynch?
Are you remembering to pay tax to Ichi for all this 'intersting' usage?
Vote: seprix.
Jan isn't happening and I really am not feeling liopoil. Seprix is a good alternative wagon.
What happened to Gkrieg?
He tries to get more people on Seprix over Lio, ends up absent for the deadline and the Awaclus quicklynch.
So that's Day 1.
Scum points:
*Any bussing that occurs is when partners are very safe (no real threat of being lynched)
*Case against Gkreig is not very convincing, admits no case for the Hydrad vote
*Only votes Seprix, Gkreig, Jan, Hydrad throughout the day. Town tends to change opinions more (e even said this).
Town points:
*Makes a case against Jan when lots of other stuff is going on. Scum here could continue to just slide under-the-radar. It's also a bit of OMGUS (as Jan called e out for, well, flying under the radar and being scummy), and scum tends to be conscious of OMGUS and avoid it. Town is more likely to not really care. However, mitigated a bit by e initially thinking Jan was townie when he found e scummy. However, if you're scum you don't often backpedal and do a read reversal like that.
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Day 2:
I thought I was going to be around at the end of the day but got pulled into a meeting at work....new bosses and they are trying to change the duties and responsibilities of my job...so yeah.
Anyway, since I wasn't a part of it, I will strongly condemn that lynch. It was absolutely awful. I know, lynching is important, but that lynch totally felt like scum pushing some last minute lynch away from a different last minute lynch of a partner.
I am going back to vote: Seprix
BTW this setup is probably multiball.
This is also interesting. RR, do you say that because of the size of the game, or what? I mean, sure, but you seem fairly confident and I don't see anything that says multiball
So starts off back at Seprix. Makes some more points.
I am saying that scum exists in the pool of people who were lynch candidates at the end of day. So {liopoil, seprix, e, jan}
I am not scum. I don't think liopoil is. Seprix started the movement, as awaclus is an easy enough target to get quick votes due to his sometimes abrasive personality.
Reads are consistent here from the previous Day. This is generally bad.
I suppose an e/Lio scum team is almost impossible now? Lio would have to be partners with Gkrieg which is hard. town!Lio here would just mean some white knighting from e, I guess. There were multiple times D1 where e deflects away from Lio (towards Jan in the mid-day, to Seprix closer to lynch). And now has an option to consider Lio but sticks with town read.
Analyzes the Awaclus wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg606628#msg606628) and concludes that Meli is town. Finds Seprix and Silver looking bad from it all, prefers Seprix. Doesn't really say why it can't be Silver except for the 'they can't both be scum' argument, which is weak.
Continues to criticize the end of Day 1. Either annoyed town or scum playing it up. I don't get a scummy vibe from it.
Rereads Teproc/me:
Teproc did not feel quite as useful as he usually does. Which, I mean, doesn't really tell us much of anything. I don't know, he talked about meta a lot (relatively) which is an easy out for scum.
He has a couple posts about Awaclus from D1:Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? :-\
You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.
LEt's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.
ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.
I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.
See, this is what a scum read looks like. JR is concerned that the first thing he said wasn't clear enough, so he completes it to be extra clear and to make sure that everyone sees how much he's contributing to the game by stating clear reads. Town rarely thinkgs like that : town assumes you got it until you don't.
Stray thoughts :
Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
RR slightly townie (as much as it's possible for me to read him).
liopoil townie.
Which, I mean, aren't like amazing posts or anything. But overall I think we have better options for the lynch out there.
Hedges. e doesn't seem to really consider options other than the person he wants to lynch at the moment.
More talk about the lynch and its reactions.
So yeah, generally, I do not think scum will gloat over a lynch. silverspawn posted a 'gotcha' before Awaclus, Seprix posted his 'gotcha' 10 seconds after Awaclus posted [probably didn't see Awaclus' post] and then immediately posted hi 'oops we hit town' 20 seconds after that.
Some people post more in twilight than others. I think for people who do post in twilight a lot (people like Seprix and silverspawn) they will probably be more confident about their lynch as scum and more reserved and anxious as town. Or maybe I should rethink go home and rethink my life. anyway, sleep.
Scum thinks about this too, when they're thinking on how to respond. I think what you have to consider is if posts/reactions feel genuine or contrived. I guess e's points aren't bad here.
Gone for a while, comes back, suddenly an Iguana wagon.
Not sure what to make of this iguana wagon. The case seems a little...well....fabricated. I will have to go back and look at iguana more carefully
The good thing is, if it is a scum-slip, we can conclude that his scum team also know it was a scum-slip, and are very likely already on his wagon with bus votes 8)
On the other hand, if it wasn't a scumslip, we can still conclude the scum team also knows it wasn't....which might scare them off the wagon constructed around a scum slip.
I am confident that scum exists on that wagon, I just have never been too convinced by "scumslip" arguments. Still need to read iguana as a whole and see how he looks
Doesn't look great for e.. knows he needs to form an opinion on Iguana, reminds us that he's going to do so in case Iguana gets lynched or something. Says this:
But also, who is more likely to initiate a scum slip argument? Town or scum? I think town.
which I suppose is about Silver? Continues to push scum!Seprix:
But I think scum!seprix totally jumps onto the argument
looks bad.
Some Gkrieg interactions:
But I think scum!seprix totally jumps onto the argument
Gkrieg's reads:
People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch
And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e
If e and Lio are town, then Gkrieg doesn't list any partners in people he's willing to lynch. Not too likely.
Gets around to reading Iguana:
Reread iguana here and didn't get scum vibes from him. Which probably means he is scum. Because I always push a mislynch on him when he is actually town.
Not enough for me to vote him right now, but I might if we haven't had movement somewhere else later on in the day. And yeah, deadlines late at night...most likely not going to be around.
Votes:
That goes for the rest of you, too. A lot of us won't be here later. We need the majority on iguana now. (Looking at you e).
you are right. We at least need to get someone L-1 or something. We haven't had any productive wagons yet today.
vote: iguana
That puts Iguana at L-3.
Moves back to Seprix:
Not going to happen. Try again.
You are way too aggressive to be town. You were quiet the whole game, now you step up randomly. There's no way you're town.
Can you feel my eyes rolling?
Yes, I can. Can you feel my vote changing?
vote: seprix
I can always go back to iguana later. Will move before I go to sleep tonight if needed.
Moves back to Iguana:
meh, who am I kidding. no way seprix gets any momentum right now.
vote: iguana
Moves back to Seprix:
Let's try this: does anyone have any questions for me? I'm not drunk but I have had a little to drink, so kind-of-tipsy-but-not-really AMA?
Are you scum? :)
yeah, Iguana might be inevitable.
you would like that
I'd like to at least see him claim if he has to die, so whoever hammers is an idiot and is an auto-lynch for tomorrow.
this is such a terrible stance to take.
vote: seprix
And maybe Iguana is already lynched but votes him:
wait what?
thats convenient. we don't have to wait for the flip I guess.
I think we have enough votes already but vote: iguana
This is after Iguana claimed scum.
And that's Day 2.
Not very good looking for e.. delays saying much on the big Iguana wagon or taking action until he has to, finally votes but moves it back and forth, still trying to push Seprix while showing that he's willing to lynch Iguana.
Okay, need to take a break for now and get some stuff done. Will finish later today or tomorrow.
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yeah, e's white knightib was very effective for a while. I had a strong townread on him until the end of day 3 when he started acting really funny.
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Should I motivate Fontisian? I think yes.
Uh... I don't know. let's see. Plugging that into my analysis post:
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Three town get shot -> 1 - 1 - 1 Probably a Loss
... Two towns and mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 Win
... Two towns and SK get shot -> 2 - 1 LyLo
... Both scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Three towns get shot -> Loss
... Two towns and SK get shot -> Loss
... Two towns and one mafia get shot -> 1 - 1 - 1 Probably a Loss
... Mafia and SK and Town get shot -> 2 - 1 LyLo
... Two Mafia and anyone get shot -> Win
Comparing that to the original:
Let's examine both separately.
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Two towns get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Town and scum gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
... Two Scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and SK get shot -> Lose
... Town and Mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Mafia and SK gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
And the answer is actually yes if we trust fontisian.
But if not, then no. Because then she gets a way to win with the very first line: We're at 4/1/1 after lynching e and all three scum shoot town. This might be the most likely outcome. So... yeah, yes if you trust her, no if you don't.
I personally like it because if she does shoot me, then an extra shot could still save the game. Particularly the first half, it could lead us to 2/1 vs the SK which is a win, rather than 2/1/1, which is probably a loss. Or, if mafia shoots the SK, it's the difference between a LyLo and an instant win.
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1-1-1 is indeed probably a loss because of fontisian's bulletproof. It's interesting that ss supports motivating fontisian though.
So, if you're mafia right now, how are you even trying to win? Fontisian obviously just wants e lynched and she'll kill somebody tonight; that's her only shot. But how do the mafia plan on winning this game right now? If it's ss/e, lynching fontisiam probably won't be enough. If it's haddock/e, it totally could be. If it's WW/e same. If e is town, mafia wins by lynching e.
But what are ss/e doing to try to win right now, if it's them? Because it looks like they might just both die before tomorrow.
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I am trying to lynch fontisian
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I am trying to lynch fontisian
You know, the person who claimed scum
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So, if you're mafia right now, how are you even trying to win?
You probably support the fontisian lynch and then hope to win in a normal game.
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I mean, e and Haddock are trying to lynch me. QED.
I could make no shots or two shots if that would be better.
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Definitely one shot. I'm not sure if I'll motivate you. If I do, if I were you I'd shoot two people. But I'm not you.
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I don't think I'll be able to finish up tonight. Will tomorrow.
It's certainly not clear to me that lynching e over Font is better for us, even if e is Mafia.
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Two shots would make things swingier, right?
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Two shots would make things swingier, right?
yeah, but also just better, I think.
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Two shots would make things swingier, right?
Even if fontisian shot, say, Haddock instead of you?
yeah, but also just better, I think.
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Possibly, Haddock could be scum.
But since she doesn't really know who scum is, and she might try to hit scum anyway, yeah I support two shots.
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I'm here briefly before bed.
I had forgotten that it was silver who pointed out iguana's slip. That makes me want to shoot him less. But who else is there? I don't see partners!RR and e, nor really lio as scum. And WW is really towny.
Ugh.
I guess lynching e and motivating fonti is ok. Im advocating for fonti lynch over e purely because we don't know the fullness of fonti's win condition and if she's hiding something from us then it may well be to her benefit to kill town. I'd really really like to know her other win condition.
But realistically yeah an e lynch and a motivation is ok if we wanna trust fonti. Especially if there's to be any serious talk of killing me. If that's a thing I'd obviously rather a Mafia died too.
There really shouldn't be such talk though. I'm the second towniest person here after WW. And I have been pushing the scum!e case hard today. When he flips scum you'll know I'm town.
Also all the other things that make me towny. Like my stance on gkrieg and ADK.
Seriously. I can't believe anyone is even considering killing me.
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You pushed e, who is not even confirmed scum, and would probably be lynched anyway.
I drove the lynch of a player who is now confirmed scum and who wouldn't have been lynched anyway.
Can you see which important observation is to be drawn from this?
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You're good at bussing?
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Remember you and Haddock in fruit ninja mafia?
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Remember you and Haddock in fruit ninja mafia?
er... no. The main thing that I remember about that game was that I had a narrow-minded argument and said some stupid stuff.
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I drove the iguana wagon too, friend.
I was second only to you on that front.
You were also second on the ADK wagon while I actively resisted it.
I honestly do not remotely see where this idea of scum!me is coming from.
Bedtime.
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OK Haddock is overreacting and it's mildly scummy. I don't think we should kill Haddock, but if fontisian is killing people, I think they should be silver > haddock > WW > RR > lio, so Haddock would be the second kill if I were calling the shots. Like, everyone is towny at this point. But ss sure looks like he might have gotten caught on the iguana wagon. Could easily have been what he thought was some harmless distancing with what was a bad scumslip argument that he then had to stick to.
Hey e, do mafia have daychat?
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No, the main towny thing that ss has done was voting for Hydrad on day 1, although he may have also gotten 'trapped' there since he was again the first vote.
The main towny thing Haddock has done isn't the iguana lynch either, it's his vote for gkrieg on day 3. Also his "ugh why is there so much resistance to the hydrad lynch" on day one.
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I really don't think that we should motivate fontisian though. 2-1-1 is just so much better than 1-1-1.
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Wait, if fontisian was motivated yesterday, and she also used cop on night three, shouldn't she have gotten to investigate two people?
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I was only able to shoot twice, for whatever reason.
Haddock, I don't know anything else about the alt wincon. It may not even be an alt wincon, and I may just be overinterpreting. I don't know. But do you seriously think if I had an anti town alternate wincon that I understood, I would bring it up?
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Probably because it's a one shot cop
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But, roadrunner's result said investigative too? How does this work then?
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But, roadrunner's result said investigative too? How does this work then?
I followed him
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Okay, finishing.
Day 3:
So I was wrong about a few things. First of all, seprix.
Jan's analysis here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg610010#msg610010) is really good and we need to do more of that. I think one thing that it could mean is that if hydrad's partners weren't willing to defend him d1 then they might bus iguana d2. Obviously not just giving RR and Jan free passes as town here, but he was right about seprix, Reggie, and Awaclus
Null post I guess.
Is somewhat absent with RL stuff, doesn't really have any scum reads:
Work has been......interesting. really sorry that I have neglected this game. I feel like gkrieg is the current fad. I remember a D1 scum read of him for some reason. I like WW and Melisandre for their rereads. Mostly finding people townie, which is what it is. Either way, not lynching today.
I used to have a big town read on liopoil, but he has had some posts recently that have mellowed that. Need a targeted reread (as well as being at my computer) to find them.
But then, like I started, gkrieg seems like a good option for today. Day ends the 20th (Monday), promise to read over the weekend. Do a load of laundry, reread liopoil. Vacuum the floor, reread gkrieg. That sort of thing
Lukewarm on Gkrieg. Also includes an alternate lynch (Lio). I'd prefer it if it was more, like, entirely changing way of thinking or going all-out for Gkrieg. Setting up here to lynch Lio over Gkreig if the tides swing that way.
Decides for Lio based on wagon position:
All right, lets do this.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
liopoil (3): Teproc, Hydrad, gkrieg13
Seprix (3): 2.71828....., J Reggie, Awaclus
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan
Not Voting (1): Melisandre
Day 2 Final Vote Count
iguanaiguana (8): silverspawn, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, J Reggie, Jan, iguanaiguana, Seprix, 2.71828.....
J Reggie (2): Witherweaver, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): Roadrunner7671
fontisian (2): Melisandre, liopoil
Not Voting (1): fontisian
Plenty of space for scum still on that Awaclus lynch. I think liopoil is the best bet today.
Interesting that I don't have much of a wagon yet.
People who are voting for iguana: ss, seprix, haddock, fontisian, j reggie, adk (L-2)
People who have stated any good reason to suspect iguana recently: liopoil, J Reggie
Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....
Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.
So you're not IC?
With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.
Nice totally-not-wall-of-text.
Increasingly feeling like there is no alternatie to iguana unless he shows up soon and does something.
Lynched Awaclus, defended iguana. I have a tendency to defend scum and lynch town. I think liopoil could be that person
And votes the next post:
and we need wagons
vote: liopoil
Says this
I really don't know what to think of this. gkrieg and silverspawn just sheeped me onto liopoil because someone else gave them an excuse to vote for liopoil, but then decide that sheeping me is bad.
Then moves to ADK:
Vote: adk
Oh, I realizes after jumping forward that that was actually the hammer. At this point it's ADK at 5 (L-1) and Lio at 4 (L-2), one of the four being e himself. There was about an hour left.
e, why did you choose to hammer here?
D4:
Says I'm townie, says RR looks suspicious for talking about multiple scum factions, then:
I think that they actually make him scummy. Sure, he could be town speculating about the setup. But at this point it seems clear that multiple factions exist. Or something. I think those comments are actually informed comments trying to give a show of theory talk when he actually knows some of the setup because he is in a faction and evaluated his faction's abilities and decided unless it was multi-ball of some sort there is no way that his faction was the only scum out there.
More analysis of the D1 Awaclus wagon:
I refuse to believe that scum does not exist on that wagon. Silverspawn looks the worst because he pushed out so hard. Haddock, liopoil, RR, fontisian are the remaining people on the list.
I could see silverspawn/RR both scum here. I think these wagons are another point in favor of town!WW because I doubt three scum were all hanging out together on liopoil. Unless they are different factions, which is possible
And reads:
Scum->town
RR, silverspawn, liopoil, fontisian, Haddock, WW, e
Then Font pressures to claim, and e does:
E, claim your role. Now.
sure, why not.
I am a watching doctor. I doctor someone and receive the results of who targeted them at night.
N1 I targeted Melisandre. I received the result that Melisandre was targeted by both Seprix, J Reggie, and myself. This is one of the reasons that I pursued a Seprix lynch so much. I believed that Seprix was scum who targeted Melisandre and I shielded Melisandre from that kill. If it wasn't Seprix, I thought it would could have been J Reggie. Then everything was turned upside down when they both died and flipped town on N2
N2 I targeted you (fontisian). I received no result. Which was really strange to me. Because N1 I received the result that I had targeted my target myself, so I figured I would at least get myself. I didn't, so possibly roleblocked.
N3 I did not target anyone because I forgot to submit my action. It has been a rough few days and I just didn't do it. No excuses
Okay.. this is an unlikely fake claim. First, we already have a Jailkeeper, which scum doesn't forget when they think about claims. Second, it's super powerful. Watcher is good, Doctor is decent, Watching Doctor is really good. Well scum had a Ninja, maybe they also have some kind of Strongman. Second, the targets. There is huge possibility to get counterclaimed. So Seprix and JReggie both target Melisandre. Meaning Seprix and Melisandre have a neighborhood. You have to hint that somewhere; I'll go back and look at D2, but I think people have said they didn't find it. What was JReggie? Consultant Detective.. well .. JReggie should have had something one way or the other regarding Meli on Day 2 (whatever Detective returns).
Need to do:
*Check D2 hints that Meli and Seprix had a neighborhood together N1.
*Check D2 hints that JReggie investigated Meli on N1.
Well, I guess it's convenient that all these people are dead now. I suppose we should also check that JReggie didn't breadcrumb anyone else, and that no one else hinted having a neighborhood with Seprix. That's a lot of work, but I guess a full read of D2 couldn't hurt. But more to the point, you have to worry about that if you're e fake claiming here. Makes it a little harder.
He claims to have gotten Roleblocked N2. Okay that's worse, and more convenient. Notably he wasn't Roleblocked by Seprix, else he would have claimed to have a neighborhood. Honestly that makes it look a little bit better, because that would be very convenient. I guess no one here has admitted to Roleblocking e, so if this is true it can only be from scum. If Font did it she'd probably admit it for towncred ('hey, I'm an open book' kind of thing). Otherwise if e is town here it was from the scum in {Lio, Haddock, Silver, RR}. RR being less likely since he and Font are confirming each other, conspiracy theories aside. I guess it's possible.
Claims to not submit an action N3. I think town legitimately does this more often than scum claims to. Of course, e might realize this.
I have to move locations now, will be back in ~15 minutes or so.
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Okay, so. Claim is less polished than a usual scum claim. But maybe it has to be with claiming that role, because of all the counterclaim possibilities.
Anyway, let's consider scum e, real claim. Scum has Watcher-Doctor. This makes multiball a lot more likely, I think. Basically two pro-town roles. I don't think I've ever seen Mafia with a Doctor role in a game with just Mafia+SK. I suppose it could be for balance issues, if SK were too powerful. Or, well, Vig. Or just to provide a claim that's more believable.
But, night kills makes two teams + SK not likely. So could it be Font+X against {Gkrieg, Hyguana, e}? So Font gets a guilty result on e, claims, then RR claims a result on Font, Font decides to claim SK to protect partner and finish off opposing team? If e gets lynched, then we believe Font, Font's team takes a shot against Town, we're sitting at 3-2 tomorrow, we lynch Font, Font's partner kills, we're at 2-1 LyLo. If Font gets lynched today, flips not SK, we're at 4-1-1 with two kills in night. e probably wants to try to shoot X, X probably goes e. So it could be 3-1, maybe no lynch for the 2-1 LyLo. If X doesn't go e and e shoots town it's 2-1-1, maybe that's actually better for them. So worse for Font+X than if e gets lynched, but not unwinnable.
X could be anyone here. If it were RR, they'd have to plan this ahead of time.. uh.. not sure there's a point. And Font would have to know (or guess) e was scum ahead of time, not just getting the result at day start. I guess they could have planned a contingency. But no one on the team has been lynched, neither RR or Font have a lot of suspicion.. you probably just ride the game out at this point. So RR not likely. Nothing precludes anyone else, though.
On the other hand, is there an advantage to Font doing this at all when caught? Yeah, I mean, you have the chance of living an extra night.. I guess not claiming SK would be the same scenario as if we lynched Font today with the SK claim, so same as above analysis.
Would this actually change our analysis any? We'd have to hit one scum after e+Font, whichever order we lynch them.. Oh, but if we lynch Font, then there would still be two Night kills, not 1. That's actually pretty bad for us.. if it ends the 2-1-1 scenario above.. if we lynch e we still lose.. we'd have to no lynch and hope they shoot each other? Town never wins in that situation.
So, lynching e would be better here.
What if it were Font+X but e were town? I don't think that's likely.. pointless gambit for them at this point.
Has anyone considered the teamFont scenarios?
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So deadline is Wednesday morning.
I don't think the scenarios where Font lies about e make sense, and e looks bad from Gkrieg and Hydrad/Iguana interactions. Even if e were town, and we lynch Font and Font flips SK, we basically have to lynch e tomorrow.
Scenario above doesn't change a whole lot, but makes lynching e better I think.
So, lynching e and directing Font seems like the right play.
I still need to read Silver and Haddock, so let's not vote until I finish that.
Have we ran the no shoot scenario?
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Thanks for all the thought, ww. Any ideas on what I should do with me kill would be appreciated.
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Has everyone else came to their conclusions? Are we waiting on me? I need to read Haddock and Silver; I hope to be able to finish that by sometime during the day tomorrow.
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Meh.
I've basically concluded that it will be impossible to make the correct decision without more information. Whether we lynch fonti or e, there is a possibility that the setup will be such that that is the wrong play.
Based on what I think about how the setup plays out, I have a very mild preference for lynching fonti over e, but I'm totally convinced that e is scum so that's fine too; which seems to be the consensus among others.
I don't think we should have fonti not shoot. If we want to be without a kill from fonti we'd be better just to lynch her.
Motivating is maybe fine; my shot preference would be
silver > lio >>> RR >>> WW > me.
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Why RR over WW?
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Why RR over WW?
Because he's enormously towny in the absence of any claim.
Your claim makes you towny but by no means completely clears you.
That said though I can't remember exactly why I was finding you scummy before your claim. Apparently I need to reread you.
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My claim actually does completely clear me, but whatever.
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My claim actually does completely clear me, but whatever.
I mean it really doesn't. It makes you look pretty good. But we know nothing about this setup, there are absolutely situations in which yours could be a fakeclaim, concocted along with fonti.
Eh, put you level with WW then. Realistically I don't want to see either of you killed tonight.
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My claim actually does completely clear me, but whatever.
I mean it really doesn't. It makes you look pretty good. But we know nothing about this setup, there are absolutely situations in which yours could be a fakeclaim, concocted along with fonti.
Eh, put you level with WW then. Realistically I don't want to see either of you killed tonight.
Can you paint a reasonable narrative for RR and Fonti planning this together?
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My claim actually does completely clear me, but whatever.
I mean it really doesn't. It makes you look pretty good. But we know nothing about this setup, there are absolutely situations in which yours could be a fakeclaim, concocted along with fonti.
Eh, put you level with WW then. Realistically I don't want to see either of you killed tonight.
Can you paint a reasonable narrative for RR and Fonti planning this together?
I sorta did earlier. It was incomplete but I'm fairly certain one could make it work.
Along the lines of:
RR and fonti are both mafia. RR has an ability that grants mafia an extra kill on a given night. Fonti makes up some stuff about investigating people, both to paint e as scummy and to allow RR to claim a followers result which fits.
So, 4 person scum team, and either an SK still out there somewhere (why would they claim at this point?) or mafia have had two factional kills all along.
There are lots of problems that makes that a stretch.
Among others, it basically relies on e being town, which I pretty much see as impossible at this point.
(Or Seprix jailkept the SK, which I guess COULD still be e).
Yeah it's all a stretch, but it's definitely possible. Hence RR is not TOTALLY cleared. But OK when I really look at it he is probably at least as towny as WW.
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Mafia with two kills every night is I don't think reasonable. So if Font and RR were both Mafia, then we'd still need a SK to account for three kills. If they were a separate Mafia team and had a one-shot extra kill or something (happened in Walking Dead), then it could be possible, but why would RR and Fonti bother doing this?
RR could just be part of the Mafia team, with the claim he actually made, while Font is SK. I suppose the idea would be to motivate town for town cred. I don't think anything rules that out completely.
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Yeah, why bother? E would get lynched today then Fontisian tomorrow. We could do better.
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My claim actually does completely clear me, but whatever.
Not important, but no way scum!RR says this.
I'm ready to lynch e
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I'm thinking of shooting Silver and Haddock, in that order. Haddock, would you mind making a case against lio? Ww, would you mind finalizing your input?
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I'm thinking of shooting Silver and Haddock, in that order. Haddock, would you mind making a case against lio? Ww, would you mind finalizing your input?
There's no way it can happen before tomorrow, sorry.
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I'm thinking of shooting Silver and Haddock, in that order. Haddock, would you mind making a case against lio? Ww, would you mind finalizing your input?
I'll do this tomorrow if that's OK. I'll throw in some defense of myself too I guess, though I really don't get how I'm the 3rd scummiest person all of a sudden. My play and my wagon positioning FOR THE ENTIRE GAME has been spectacularly towny. This is, like, the towniest game I've ever played.
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Tomorrow it is.
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Okay, Haddock reread. Sorry if this is a bit rushed. Things have been busy and this takes a good block of time.
Day 1:
Comes in a little bit after things have started, first real post:
@Roadrunner7671 - why did you ask Seprix to 'chill'?
We had an incident recently, someone left the forum over a Mafia game. It's an ongoing game and a touchy subject, so we won't dwell into that.
But I don't want Seprix to leave or cause someone else to leave. Like, why would he assume someone was British or trying to make him look like a fool?
Man, why are you equating calling someone British with insulting them? :(
Anyway. Yeah I think I'm caught up now. There's way too much going on in this game for me to follow easily though. Phew.
Thoughts so far:
RR and Awaclus are being their usual town selves as far as I'm concerned. Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
Seprix is meh. I come out null-scummy on him, but it's just gut, and my gut can't be reliable at all, I just don't have a feel for Seprix at this point.
J Reggie looks bad in places, and I think is worthy of a vote. Will check vote count before I do so, seems like lots of votes on him lately.
Melisandre does big posts in a kinda me-ish style, which I really like. Need to read him more carefully to get anything out of it, but I lean towny on him overall.
I wanna have a closer look at ADK too, which I'll get to at some point.
Townie-ish. Just opinions on what's taken place so far that seem genuine enough.
Next:
Though haven't heard from Awa in a while?
What do you mean? You heard from me today.
Don't worry, he is just overly suspicious of you. Trying to create a case and all
Not this again, e. Seriously.
Awa hadn't posted between my two posts, which given the amount of other activity felt like a long time. I didn't mean anything by it.
Anyhoo. SS is being really super-duper helpful. And I'm not sure what to make of it. He will usually offer good helpful commentary and useful stuff piecewise, but this feels slightly too much, maybe? Like it's slightly forced?
Also, obligatory "silver-hasn't-tunneled-anyone-yet-must-be-scum".
Does gkrieg usually do stream-of-consciousness rereads? I probably give mild town points there either way, such things can be hard to emulate. (OK, so prepost, apparently the answer is that he does do that.)
In general I think RRR is one of the easiest players to recognize as town. So if we mislynch him we're dumb, as Teproc said.
However, I do on fact lean town on RRR right now, though not very high confidence yet. Reads post incoming somewhat soon with explanations...
I think RR has become one of the hardest people for me to read now because he has stopped doing a lot of the newbie things that he started out doing.
This. So much of this. I swear I used to have such a good handle on him, and now I'm super paranoid. Still think he seems towny so far this game though.
Hydrad seems much less active than usual. Like he's usually acti-lurking but this is just lurking. It's unusual so potentially a scumtell?
vote: Hydrad
WEEEAAAK. I don't think this is unusual for Hydrad whatsoever. Also, anyone with mildly lurky metas is gonna look super extra lurky D1 and D2 this game because of player numbers.
Babe, why are you yelling about a waffle? Waffles are delicious.
waffles are delicious indeed. but are they a towns food of choice?
Yes. The more I play the more I think hedging and waffling comes from town.
This does not mesh at all with what I know about your reads in previous games. You have called me scummy for my D1 hedging in, like, every game we've ever been in together. At least, someone has, and I think it has often been you...
Debatable at the very least. I'll say that the more I forgetabout you, the more likely yo are to be scum, generally.
This is an interesting hypothesis, and probably has merit. Awa's scum-meta-defense is weak because it doesn't take into account (for contrast) how much of a royal pain in the derriere he can be as town.
Seprix perhaps looking less scummy than he did.
Still think a vote: J Reggie looks warranted.
Generally sounds good, townie. Response regarding Hydrad is less likely to come from a partner.
Okay don't want to quote everything.. says Awaclus is a little bit scummier for being helpful, which is generally an okay thought process, says RR is looking townie (not so sure there). Read on Awaclus changed, sounds fairly genuine, usually a good sign.
Makes a post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg604020#msg604020) on JReggie on stuff he doesn't like. Hm.. first point for making a joke early on.. man lots of people do this all the time, it isn't a tell one way or the other. Second for proposing scum teams... man lots of people do this all the time, it isn't a tell one way or the other. Criticizes an (effective) town v. town call from JReggie, okay I'm alright with that. Buddying, okay that can be a thing. One post he gets bad feelings from. Hedging, okay.. another criticism for joking. Well, then he admits it's a stretch, an we agree there. Hm.. town Haddock pretty often makes big cases/explanations for votes, which I usually find him scummy for and am wrong like.. 3/5 of the time or something. Not sure what him building up a case like this and calling it out as not that solid means. Null I guess.
But it's interesting that you're defending him why are you defending him?
Is she, though? Where?
Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here. Which makes me think you're town. Seriously. Town!SS always always tunnels someone on D1, and is usually found scummy for it.
Eh, I don't think so. SS is a pretty meta-aware player.
A number of posts on how he hasn't been around/can't get into it/etc. ... this:
Haddock:
Few posts, but some of them are pretty long. Is tunneling J Reggie pretty hard. His reads seem kind of floaty, like he doesn't quite know where he's landed yet. I would like to see more from him but he's landed on town for now. Status: Wouldn't lynch.
Yeah I'm really struggling to contribute here. Gonna try to put something in tonight, right now I'm taking a break from writing a talk.
I wanna say: I'm not really tunnelling Reggie, I just voted him a while back and haven't had enough of a coherent thought about this game yet to find someone I really want to vote for.
I think scum is usually more concerned with this than town.
Votes Jan for buddying him:
12. Haddock
Going slightly against "number two", but not really.
Calls out ADK for a weak vote on Hydrad, which is potentially good.
Then goes in depth about his reads and reasons. Open minded (changing his awaclus read on revisiting) reads well.
Reads like a useful player to have around, and all around towny.
Kinda ignored the reggie reread right now, but everythign else was good and fine.
You read 3 of the people who pushed the best content in this game (Teproc, Haddock, Seprix) that you know in your scum list, and you don't even have a reason. (I don't count fonti/meli since you don't know them)
I appreciate these two compliments from Jan, but don't feel like I've earned them at all, which makes me super paranoid; I'm struggling not to see this as buddying.
Sorry if these are genuine, Jan, I bet I look super ungrateful now.
But until I find something better,
vote: Jan
Not really sure how to take it. Sounds a little bit forced, could be a "hey I need to move my vote around so I look like I'm doing something".
Of Jan and e, I think e is more likely to be town. I don't really want those to be the only choices though; my read on Jan is weaksauce.
Silver is probably town.
I could probably go for Seprix or liopoil if that became a thing; I guess I have to leave my vote where it is for now. But this is not ideal.
Man I feel like this game only just started, I never have gotten into it, there's just too many people.
He hasn't really commented on any of the major wagons that arose throughout the day, or much else that had happened beyond his few individual reads. Once again comments about not getting into it. Goes for Lio:
Just reread Jan, don't have the time for a detailed reread but I don't want to lynch him. The e vs Jan thing feels like typical town v town overblowing things, but especially Jan's frustrated reaction to our meta reads townie : I think scum is a lot more likely to try to silently adapt to it while town will express that frustration and continue doing what they're doing.
Don't want to lynch e either (changing your mind radically is a town tell if anything, on top of everything else)... silverspawn I guess ? I don't know if I'll be around for deadline, but I feel fine leaving my vote where it is, the leading wagons are just not any good.
OK.
Let's try vote: liopoil. I don't think he's been very towny.
For me it's liopoil = seprix > Hydrad > silver>>>>>e
Dunno where silver suddenly came from.
I find seprixs playstyle generally scummy but have played with him twice so who the hell knows.
And no its obvious that a Hydrad lynch is better than a no lynch.
Hydrad in classic partner position.
If lio wants to claim the time is now.
Fine with seprix too. And RR Hydrad could well be scum. There's just no way to know. That makes him better than a no lynch.
Not sure if you bring a partner up specifically in this way (arguing why he should be lynched against someone strongly opposed).
It's like L-5. But OK Hydrad is fine.
vote: Hydrad.
Ppe unless that was the hammer...
Hydrad was at 3 votes, now 4. Possible bus.
And there are scummy people on the seprix wagon.
But still Hydrad or seprix over e at this point.
Lio is still acceptable in spite of everything.
Ugh. There should not be this much resistance to the Hydrad lynch.
Fine where I am for now.
Less likely a bus now.
Says he'd be okay with Awaclus lynch, gets on the wagon as the 5th vote (L-4), and Awaclus gets lynched.
End of Day 1. Starts of fairly townie, gets scummy, gets a little bit townier towards the end of the day. Sticking with the Hydrad vote when it's easy to move gets a little bit of town cred, but you don't want to appear too eager to get off your partner. Overall null I guess.
Day 2 next.
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Day 2:
Comes out gunning for J Reggie:
Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.
I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.
In the other I was read as scum throughout d.
In one RMM game I barely got to play.
In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.
So you can't really conclude this at all.
The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.
Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing. Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable. Sorry about that.
E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start. I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.
Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie
This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.
Generally don't like just using your read from yesterday to start off the next day.
Haddock's last big post gives me a slight town read on him.
I appreciate it, but I have repeatedly proven that I make big posts as both alignments.
He does not seem to appreciate being called town this game, continually reminding us how he hasn't earned it. Really, though, I'm not sure scum!Haddock would do this. Or at least not to this extent.
On my catchup reread, first two things I noticed.
1)
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
Not really game related, but don't downplay yourself! You were brutally bussed by both your partners. Hell, I LED that wagon.
This:
well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
I actually buy this. Happy to vote iguana once I check I'm not derphammering or something stupid.
Quick to buy the Iguana slip argument. Votes soon after:
vote: iguana
More to come.
Why do you town-read Seprix? [the only reasons I could see signs of 'town-Seprix' in his D1 play, are reasons based on WIFOM]. Do you have any tangible reasons?
Did I explain my meta-reason for townreading Seprix? (I know you don't love meta reasons, but they're what I got). I think I mentioned it. Basically, read Fruit Ninja Mafia, where I was scum. He was town there but I enjoyed painting him as scummy because of some weird behaviour he had. If he's scum here, he's imitating that behaviour pretty damn well.
I'd expect Teproc/Melisandre to be killed N1. I do not like the IG kill at all. I think Teproc or Melisandre is scum already, maybe even both.
Can you break this down to me. All of it. Line by line. Even if it's a wall-post. We sort this now.
It's quite simple. Melisandre, you have been driving the game forward like a good little town. However, you're not lynched yet. Why? Teproc is widely considered the best town player on f.ds, so how is he not dead yet? I think it's very reasonable to conclude (especially with a very odd IG NK) that one of you, and possibly both (I won't go that far) is scum.
WIFOM WIFOM.
This is weak about Meli in particular.
I CAN kinda see the Teproc argument, though that's WIFOM too. Teproc hasn't looked outright scummy to me so far, and I'm thinking I might targetted reread him in a bit.
In other news, my gut is still finding lio's latest stuff scummy. There's probably some confirmation bias here, but this:
The end of yesterday makes me read Seprix as much more likely to be town. He just had lots of genuine split-second reactions. So I'll assime he's town for now. Makes me feel suspicious of hydrad/iguana, because that wagon had way too much resistance. If iguana is town, then all the end-of-day wagons were town, and so scum is likely to be waiting and just letting town choose their mislynch. Either way, makes me lean town on everyone who pushed the Hydrad lynch. Who was that? I'll go check.
This makes much more sense to me.
I disagree with. To me, this looks like lio coming up with a pretty convoluted reason to find people-pushing-Hydrad towny, and in doing so perhaps he distances himself from a partner? That's a long shot, sure.
But I don't agree that this argument makes a whole lot of sense. Too many ifs and buts.
Generally townie post. Seprix read seems reasonable.
Reads Teproc, says he's townie. Some back and forths with people. Goes a little townier on J Reggie, doesn't agree with cases on e or ADK, I'm now in and townie, Silver nullish, he's for lynching Iguana or Lio.
I'm here! And will be all evening.
I intend to have another look at iguana to see if I still agree with recent!me. lio still looks really scummy and I could go there, but will stay where I am for now since there's no lio wagon to speak of.
Vote has stayed on Iguana for a long time. Bus is getting less likely, or else he thinks Iguana is a goner and is fully committed. I suppose he did that as scum before (he even brought it up).
Haven't reread iguana yet, but will do in a minute.
In the meantime, catching up, I realised that @gkrieg, you never did clarify that question you asked me that made no sense. As I understood it to mean, it misrepresented me pretty hard. So yeah I'm not gonna let you pretend you never asked the question. I need you to tell me what you actually meant by it.
I also just saw my Reggie case from ages ago. It's actually not a bad case, for D1!me, anyway.
As it stands, pre-iguana reread, my instinct is:
Would lynch:
iguana, liopoil, maybe Reggie.
Meh, could do I guess:
fontisian, ADK, gkrieg
Wouldn't lynch:
Witherweaver, silver
Probably wouldn't lynch: everyone else
Makes a big post about Iguana:
OK, so iguana does look bad in general, to my mind. That's separate from the apparent scumslip.
There's lots of little things, but just a couple of posts I noticed on reread, which stood out as things I hadn't yet commented on:
This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.
This is really scummy from my perspective, amplified by the fact that I strongly disagree with his read on Teproc/Witherweaver.
People I currently don't want to lynch today:
liopoil
e (towny reads post recently)
RR (towny and easier to read later)
Awaclus (townread has intensified, just meta though)
J Reggie (Still towny)
Meli (At this point has just too much content to lynch today. If he were scum I'd would expect him to at least be trying to direct a lynch or something if he posts so much, but he's not voting)
Ichimaru Gin (Thinking like town)
People I don't have a reason to want to lynch:
fontisian (Not worried about content or buddying anymore)
silverspawn, gkrieg13
Teproc (We'll see...)
People there is some reason to lynch:
ADK, Hydrad, Haddock (Lurking)
Jan, Seprix (Still a bit scummy)
e being high town on this reads post makes no sense at all. So there's something scummy from Lio... hmm....
Liopoil: Why'd you put e as town there?
Disagreement is not a scumtell. And e is actually looking towny lately, fwiw (in his most most recent posts, anyway, which are not THAT recent).
Haddock is like treading water the whole game, just popping in every so often to say "Still haven't caught up yet! I'll post some content later!" Don't like it.
...
Also could seriously go for a silverspawn lynch.... MAYBE Teproc (WW much townier, & his late-day play does not read like scum to me.) Could also lynch: Haddock, Gkrieg, e
for now Vote: ADK
Well, that was a mess. Good luck reading 60 pages in 24 hours Witherweaver! It's, uh, not going to be fun.
He's been nullreading me up to this point. I just think it's wonderfully ironic that he's accusing me of treading water when he's actually had way more posts than me saying "I'm trying to catch up, I promise!" Since I'm town, though, and I have been struggling this game, I can hardly scumread him for such posts. And he's being quite hypocritical by using that as a reason to scumread me.
The main reason to not lynch iguana, from my perspective, is the fact that he and I disagree so much. If he's town, then having someone whose reads disagree with mine probably increases the chance of winning, overall.
If he's bussing, he's really selling it.
Reaction to the weird Iguana claim:
What the hell is going on?
II is hammered, right?
I'll unvote just in case RRs ranting has any truth to it.
Null I guess.
D2 is townier than D1, because of some genuine-seeming analysis and heavy commitment to lynching Iguana.
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Day 3:
Goes Lio:
Also, lio's weird PR softclaim is looking really really unlikely now.
And he was offwagon.
And he's scummy.
Yep.
vote: lio
Talks about game setup stuff, kills, etc. Continue to find Lio scummy but then backs off.
OK, so brief catchup.
I still think lio has done some bad things, I strongly disagree with many of his reads and his stances are weird. So yeah he's still pretty scummy. But his recent stuff gives me town vibes.
Meantime, Seprix's stance re. iguana looks really terrible. He opposes the lynch, gets on the wagon eventually, unvotes as SOON as he possibly can after iguana's claim (in a weird-looking way, not in a genuinely-convinced-by-the-claim kinda way), and then eventually hammers after iguana's selfvote and scum claim.
I think frustrated partner is believable here.
vote: Seprix for now, and I'll give him a targetted reread later.
Moves to Seprix. This is townier, because his Seprix read has flip flopped throughout the days, and each one comes with legitimate new information.
Oh, hey, this was the slip where Seprix was actually killed. Who did Font claim to kill that night? I don't remember.. other target was J Reggie. Well if this was a constructed slip it goes against my reasoning above. His reaction to the fallout is townie-ish I guess.
Okay, he goes back to Lio:
vote: lio again.
My days. I must be tired.
Still voting Lio, but doesn't really like it:
Grah.
OK.
So. I need to look for options other than lio.
Silver is worth reading at some point I think. I haven't paid him enough attention so far. Obviously his iguana position looks really good but if multi ball is a thing then he might be scum anyway. Definitely he's not a priority though.
RR is another one I want to reread. I haven't seen RR this crazy in a while.
Goes Gkrieg:
vote: gkrieg
Call it OMGUS if you like. I can't be certain there isn't some such motivation.
But I do think he's scummy. Also WW is towny and his rereads indicate scum!gkrieg.
I don't really think there's a reason to do this as GKrieg's partner.
A big post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg612024#msg612024) about e, where he ends up voting e.
I just reread ADK.
I would like RR to elaborate on this:
I'm still happy with an ADK lynch. His interactions couldn't be worse.
Right now would lynch e or lio, and MAYBE gkrieg.
e>lio>>>>gkrieg.
Well now Gkrieg is lower, so the point above is mooted. So Gkrieg was at, hm, no votes then. It came right after my big read on Gkrieg, where I pointed out a number of scummy things. So if it was a bus here.. well, he would have had to thought the points I made seemed pretty reasonable but thought there would be time to change things. So by previous point still stands a little.
vote: lio I guess.
Not my favourite thing ever but I think he's better than ADK
Back to Lio, I think it was just Lio vs. ADK at this point.
ADK gets hammered, reaction:
Crappy time for the forum to misbehave. I've been trying to post this (among other things) for ages.
So ADK is hammered? Hmm. I don't think I like that we didn't let him claim. Or the lynch in general. But I guess it could be worse.
If ADK is town, e's hammer is pretty bad. There was still lots of time.
End of Day 3. Fairly townie.
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That brings us up to today.
Overall I don't think Haddock is likely scum. He looks better than I remember RR being. Maybe better than Lio as well. My inclination is not to shoot here.
I will try to finish up during the day tomorrow.
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Can I just say that if WW is scum he deserves to win?
Also, if he's scum, he needs a hobby. Maybe Dominion?
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Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'
On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.
But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?
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Any strategy that does not involve lynching fontisian is ridiculous
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Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'
On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.
But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?
Hold up, you shoud KNOW based on your result that I am neither investigative nor killing, which is the truth. Indeed, I have claimed that I don't have an active role. There is absolutely no benefit to me claiming, srsly r u scum. If you want to know my role so badly you can reread me and mybe then you'll have a theory. I can only think of three roles which make sense with my play, and two of them are similar.
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The good news is that it's looking even mkre like e/silverspawn. I think that fontisian should kill silverspawn and nobody else.
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Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.
Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.
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I'm at this weird spot where I really believe that fontisian told the truth about everything but also think she should have lied.
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Honestly liopoli still looks bad because of his 'claim.'
On the night I motivated him there were 2 kills. I doubt that matters.
But liopoil, can you full claim? If not, why?
Hold up, you shoud KNOW based on your result that I am neither investigative nor killing, which is the truth. Indeed, I have claimed that I don't have an active role. There is absolutely no benefit to me claiming, srsly r u scum. If you want to know my role so badly you can reread me and mybe then you'll have a theory. I can only think of three roles which make sense with my play, and two of them are similar.
The investigative part of RR was one-shot.
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Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.
Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.
.... so, 1) how do you know fontisian is still bulletproof, 2) if so, how would we win tonight?
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Okay, Silverspawn.
Day 1:
First post,
I want to be the voice of Chihiro in Spirited Away.
IG's early entrance gives me a town vibe. vote: J Reggie
Not sure what in Ichi's posts would give a town vibe at this point.
Votes ADK (real vote) not too far after:
silverspawn I really hope you're town because you're the scary championship person expert. You have to read them and stop them from lynching me.
I am, don't worry... finally. had too many scum games recently.
Tryhard scum is tryhard.
Really? Do you think an experienced scum would open the game like this?
I wouldn't expect an experienced town player to do so either. Melisnandre being from a different site with a different meta makes this hard to evaluate, but "scummy" is where I'm landing.
And why?
Vote: Awaclus
Someone after my own heart.
vote: Melisandre
Vote: seprix for repeatedly voting for people trying to get us out of RVS.
vote: ADK
I disagree with the Melisandre vote, but I don't see how "voting for people trying to get us out of RVS" is scummy. If those votes are not RVS themselves, then why would voting for them get us back into RVS? Or is it bad for other reasons?
Seems okay.
Likes ADK voting Teproc, rude. Though he's still voting ADK. Talks about Awaclus meta, RR meta:
Let's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.
Actually, we probably should spoil it. It's better if we avoid too much confusion.
Awaclus thinks that town should explain why they're town, rather than players explain why others are or aren't town. Therefore he never gives reasons for votes. He also votes for me every game with his first post even if I'm the mod.
RR is paranoid, jumpy, and weird, and tries to replicate that if he's scum. Overreaction to pressure is not a scum tell.
The RR comment is interesting, as it's kind of a preemptive defense. Could see Silver treating a partner RR in this way.
Votes Teproc:
@silverspawn it's just a bad feeling I get when I see people pushing back against people who make real votes and reads early. Scum wants to try and shut down and discourage actual discussion. Also "you can't have a real read yet! vote so-and-so" is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing without taking a particularly risky position.
good enough for me to vote: Teproc instead
Calls JReggie scummy for joking in response to Meli's question, eh, I don't agree.
Policy votes:
vote: JReggie
vote: RR
vote: Seprix
RVS is a process. And that process is over. It's over over. It's not even close. We're past the point of arguing.
[Non-game related, will the site stop the-enter-the-letters-into-the-box-verfication-thing before every post?] :'(
yes, it will soon.
Strikes me as more town from Silver.
Discusses some Melisandre meta, agrees with the case against Seprix, but his vote is already there.
Comment about Hydrad:
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.
It felt very Hydrad to me.
Another player with a strange meta. You can tell that we're giving a lot of weight to meta. You may refer to his signature.
In this case his meta is making occasional, generally short and sort of uninvolved posts which casually comment on what's going on, which he imitates frustratingly well as scum. Telling the difference is not easy.
Some more discussion on player's meta. I think that's null for Silver.
Defends Hydrad:
It's difficult to form reads with this many damn people. Like I just looked at the player list and Hydrad's apparently in this game? What has he said?
He has two (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603429#msg603429) posts. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603619#msg603619) One was his typical catch-up post. Then the second one was what I called the most Hydrad post ever. It's super scummy, blatantly buddying the guy who is attacking him, and basically doing exactly what he has just been accused of.
All in all, think we can safely say that he has not been murdered and replaced by another person.
Does a reread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850). Stays townie on IG (first thing he's said about IG since his initial statement), town for Awaclus for voting Seprix, town for Meli and scum for Seprix based on their interaction earlier. Says ADK votes Seprix without a good reason and that's interesting, hedges on J Reggie, points out a townie thing Seprix did, says J Reggie is bad, says he's worse, makes a comment not relating to the game, then votes J Reggie. Complains to RR about RR's RVS thing, town on font, back to scummy on Seprix, a little less scummy on J Reggie, now decides that Hydrad is indeed kind of scummy and not just Hydrad-affected, town on Lio. Summarizes:
town: lio, font, awaclus
scum: Seprix, JReggie, Jan, Hydrad
Goes back to voting Seprix.
Treatment of Hydrad is a little suspicious.. interesting that he left IG out of his final 'town'. (The only thing's he's said about IG is that he looks town without much reason.) Maybe that indicates townier here, as if IG was a constructed read he'd probably remember to include him at the end. Fairly consistent with ultimate reads regarding Seprix and J Reggie; he assigned some town/scum points throughout, but those were his two targets before the read and they're his main targets after.
Oh. Yeah one thing I don't like is silver's reluctance to accept that I'm an IC.
This is one of the most absurd things you've ever posted in mafia.
I am town reading you. Not much, but I am.
All I said was that your town slip is not a town slip. Which is obviously true. Do you think it was a townslip? No, you don't, because it wasn't. So what gives?
this reread seems scummy to me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg603850#msg603850)
Could it be because it scumreads you?
Yeah but why is IG a townread? Actually this post from IG strikes me as scummy (IG emulating IG).
Doesn't buy the Lio case. Says Jan is scummy for back-and-forth with Meli. Then votes Jan in the next post:
Why does it make a huge difference to you if i vote on her or not?
Asking "why does it make a difference to you that I'm doing something?" is, like, inherently scummy. It makes a difference to me if you're scum, because I win this game by lynching scum. Everything scummy you (or anyone else) does automatically makes a difference to me. I shouldn't have to explain this.
The less scummy way of asking that would have been "why do you think it's scummy that I didn't vote?" It's scummy because it's a lack of commitment. Your phrasing indicated a pretty high level of confidence, and the case on lio is pretty bad, so a switch seemed to be appropriate.
This is a weak point and I knew it was weak when I just said it a minute ago, but I did it anyway because provoking people is good. And look here, it got you to say the next scummy thing right away.
As you might have read, there is a more than random chance that if one of them flips scum both might, (in my eyes) why do you think relieving pressure of lio without putting real pressure on fonti is useful?
vote: Jan
you're supposed to vote for whom you think is scum. Thinking too much in terms of pressure is a scum tell. And lio was not even close to being lynched.
You are likewise doing what lio was accused of, which is overreacting to pressure, except you're doing it in the way that scum would actually do it, i.e. not self-conscious at all. Which is another thing you didn't do in the championship game.
Strikes me as scummy. Like the "I think maybe I should vote for this guy but I need to make sure it looks justified first" kind of thing.
Also, I've lost track, but you seem to be at least semi-tunnelling fontisian here.
I'm townreading fontisian. Do you mean Jan?
God, weird choice of words. Makes him sound aloof from his actual opinions.
Some discussions with people, says he likes ADK, says e looks town, dislikes Font voting e, not opposed to Lio wagon but likes Jan better:
I'm actually not at all opposed to this wagon
but I like Jan even better.
This is a town point; Lio was a townread earlier, Silver pays attention to those things, scum!Silver probably feels the need to justify willingness to support lynching Lio. Wagon preference a bit later:
Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
Some explanation:
Jan > lio > Seprix > e
Not moving yet.
Talk to me about the why.
I have seen you play one time. I know you can use words.
The are not as good as mine, but they are still words.
The case I made on you still applies. Your reaction to being the biggest wagon was not good at all, you gave the impression of scum flailing in sight of your inevitable lynch, instead of town who tries to avoid a stupid mislynch. Your weird semi-tunneling of me without voting isn't good either.
e is a strong (relative to day1) townread for me. His reaction/flip is genuine, I've talked about that I believe
Seprix just seems to get himself into trouble unnecessarily, and his pushing of me is not good but weird as scum. I put him on the towny side of null.
and lio I don't really have a grasp on, but with how the others stand he's definitely between you and Seprix
Analyzes the votes against Lio here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14936.msg605264#msg605264).
Proposes Hydrad late:
Oh. I didn't realize it was 7/2 now. That's bizarre.
let's try vote: Hydrad. Last hour switch, anyone?
When Lio is at L-2. Some discussions..
JReggie looks terrible here. Distances himself from lio while avoiding the alternative.
until now I was fine with the lio lynch. But his claim doesn't seem to be something that comes from scum.
Hydrad wagon should move to seprix
but I don't like Seprix as much as Hydrad. Seprix is about as good as you are now in my book.
Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?
I'd support that over lio and Seprix.
vote: Awaclus
10 minutes is still enough to go 180° and lynch lio if this does not work out.
lol. How does lynching Awaclus give us any more information than Hydrad?
Contradiction much?
true words.
These are.. odd. The nature of how these reads changed. What happened to Hydrad as the alternative; why Lio? The statement regarding J Reggie doesn't make a lot of sense.. is the implication that Lio is scum and J Reggie is? He seemed to think Lio was town earlier in regards to his wagon and how it dissipated. Oh, maybe I'm misreading his analysis of the Lio wagon; he says it doesn't look like people trying for a mislynch, so Lio is less likely town. There are other posts in there besides the ones I linked but I'm trying to go kind of fast.
Day 1 for Silver goes townier to scummier overall, not strongly in either direction.
Have to get back to work. I'll continue with D2 later.
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I'm probably not going to be able to do a targeted reread of Font. I'm not sure if it would be worthwhile.
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Actually, Roadrunner, if we don't win tomight, I'll claim tomorrow and it might be useful; not harmful anymore.
Scum you should kill fontisian because if you don't she will still be bulletproof tomorrow and we won't lynch her and then either she or MAYBE town will win.
.... so, 1) how do you know fontisian is still bulletproof, 2) if so, how would we win tonight?
1) I'm assuming the worst
2) Probably fontisian will ot use the bulletproof tonight so the shot will go through.
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Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...
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Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...
She already said it was active. I think?
Case coming on lio, though it seems WW has done the work for me (thanks WW!)
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Pretty sure bulletproof would be passive...
She already said it was active. I think?
SK having passive 1-shot BP is pretty standard. Didn't see a claim that it was active.
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I was taking it from this:
I won't say whether I've used bulletproof.
Which is admittedly not much. Fonti can you confirm one way or the other? I'm not asking you if you've used it, just the type.
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It is active. Can we maybe stop talking about this?
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Crap. Major personal issue going down right now.
Can't bring myself to care about the game too much.
Shoot silver and then:
me or liopoil, it probably doesn't matter that much, I suspect we're both town. If you're bothered though I'll say lio is scummy for reasons, not least how difficult it has been to lynch him this game. And those that WW said.
And I'm towny.
I'm sorry. g2g.
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I'll vote before deadline if necessary.
Still mild preference for fonti but e is scum so that's fine.
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Silver D2:
Some pondering on kills, end of day, says scum might stay off wagon (he was on wagon), disagrees with starting off with Lio (not sure why, since he was a last-second alternative to Awaclus). Thinks Meli is townie, Seprix might be scummy for maybe faking regret, says some stuff like this:
Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan. That's the final Awaclus wagon. so if I color it, I get Awaclus (9): Seprix, silverspawn, liopoil, Haddock, A Drowned Kernel, Roadrunner7671, fontisian, Ichimaru Gin, Jan, which looks about right for the wagon.
What is that based on?
Also idk if I'm that good of a scum player. I got lynched pretty easily in Fruit Ninja Mafia which is my most recent scum game.
which worries me, various comments/questions with people that aren't very consequential, and then this:
well: iguana
Let me explain you what I believe just happened.
iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:
So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.
which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.
which is a pretty forced argument. Not sure the point of scum!Silver doing this.. he did go from decidedly null to scummy on Hydrad during Day 1, so he may come scummy on Iguana for consistency (intentionally or unintentionally). This was early in the day and he could have thought it wouldn't end up resulting in Iguana's lynch.. I'm actually surprised it got any traction at all. I guess also if we're looking at a team of four you're more likely to strongly bus one partner. So, a possible bus.
Says some things about people:
Okay. It ultimately does not matter whether scum actually does or doesn't have daychat.
Jan: Could be of either alignment. No particular meaning behind his post.
Iguanda: So, I admit this is a bit convoluted. It seemed clearer when it happened.
The argument is that he would only think of Jan's comment as a town slip if he thought that whether or not scum has daychat is written in the setup. If it's not written in the setup, then that's just town!Jan making a harmless comment, or scum!Jan making a post like any other, i.e. pretending not to have information. If it is written in the setup then town should know it, and not knowing it is then a town slip, real or fabricated.
So that's why I think he thought it was written in the setup. And the only scenario where he thinks that is if he's scum. He knows anyway, he can forget that it wasn't in the setup. If he was town, he wouldn't know at all, so there's no way he could think it was in the setup.
Seprix: I have no idea what his thought process was.
It's good that you asked me to explain it, because now I realize that it's not as strong as I thought initially. Nonetheless, I don't think it's weak, and I think igu's reaction is bad on its own.
Well he admits here his argument is convoluted. And he undermines it a bit here without backing off. He does open the door up here a little bit to looking elsewhere later.
Some other stuff happens, Silver defends Font:
that sudden "let's lynch fontisian" thing seems highly suspect to me. I a) get a town vibe from her posts and b) she's a new player who plays in an odd way on her first game. Who is more likely to adapt their playstyle, town or scum? Well, scum. Obviously.
But
I could be swayed by a good case, though. But right now, scummy business.
Might possibly be looking for a sound reason to get off Iguana. However, stays on Iguana, deadline comes up and Iguana gets lynched.
End of Day 2. Bus narrative is possible but not strong. Otherwise Silver's play this day was very.. under the radar, I suppose. Like present but not really involved, aside from initiating Iguana. Mostly null.
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Haddock: Hope whatever it is works out.
Rr: Make sure you say what you're doing wrt motivating so you don't die and leave me to get chewed out Tomorrow.
Ww: Considering almost everyone is really town, I'm taking a null read on silver as a good reason to shoot him.
Waiting on rr and ww and then I'm voting.
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Day 3:
our PRs :'(
I hope we have more, otherwise we have to find the remaining scum in a vanilla game.
Funny considering the comment on D2 about feigning regret. Reminds me of Xerxes "I may be the only town left alive" back in that Greater Idea game.
Some NK discussion:
That's, what, 4 PRs gone already? (3 NKd, one lynched)
Scum aim has been ludicrously good so far.
This is really bad.
... right. I had forgotten about IG.
So he was a... vig.
Ichimaru Gin has been killed in the night! He was Mary Morstan, the Forensic Investigating Vigilante!
This probably means that our second NK wasn't due to a town vig. And that could mean a SK. I hope it doesn't. I hate SKs.
It could also mean scum has another way of killing someone... maybe a one-shot thing. Maybe more likely, given how coordinated the kills have been.
Yeah I'm glad the iguana thing turned out to be accurate. scumslips ftw.
So scum does have daychat?
There is more discussion regarding kills, PRs, solving setup stuff.
Reads:
liopoil
gkrieg13
fontisian
silverspawn
Roadrunner7671
Melisandre
A Drowned Kernel
Haddock
2.71828.....
Jan
Witherweaver
hm. I seem to be too nice recently. I remember reasons to townread all of those players. I do agree on the ADK thing, though. He's probably my preferred choice.
Then again, that feels kind of easy.
Lots of town. Scum usually tries to be a little more balanced. A number of posts follow that don't feel very significant. Says Jan should actually be town. Says:
e seems carefree relaxed town to me. lio seems weird jumpy town to me. I know I use the opposite to say both are town, but well I think that's reasonable considering their personalities. So I don't get either of them.
A wild Lio wagon appears:
Woah, I do have a lot of townreads on people off wagon.
I'm willing to reconsider liopoil. My town read is based solely on the theory that his scum self would be more collected and calculated than what he has shown here. That might not be correct.
Alright, vote: liopoil
In 11:12. That's not good. I guess I can check in right before the deadline, but not in between.
Which means that I should find the best place for my vote, which may not be liopoil.
No... this is dumb
vote: ADK
so I'll be back in 6 to 7 hours (which is not right before the deadline), and will then have sparse access for a short time. Enough to change my vote. Won't be there right before the deadline, then.
Not really sure what's underpinning the Lio and ADK votes. Vote stays on ADK for the rest of the day and ADK gets lynched. Silver has actually been on every lynch so far.. Awaclus D1 (mislynch), Iguana D2 (scum), ADK D3 (mislynch).
End of D3, I have the same impression of D2.. present, not .. significant.
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I suppose I'll motivate Fontisian
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how is it that I seem to get no credit for introducing a scum lynch? Don't you usually give semi-IC status for that? And how can you call me non-present when I made the lynch happen?
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I suppose I'll motivate Fontisian
I suppose I want to lose too.
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So has everyone decided that I am scum?
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Because no one seems to be taking a font lynch seriously
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Brings us to Day 4. Isn't around until after the Fonti/RR thing happens. Well, most of the talk around today has been what the scenarios look like if we lynch Font vs. e, and who Font should shoot if we lynch e. Silver being the main target has been put on the defensive.
Overall Haddock is townier. So Silver over Haddock. Lio.. right, Lio is not a very likely partner because of the Gkrieg vs. Lio thing. Everyone has a scum player that makes partners less likely though.. Silver with Hydrad/Iguana, Lio with Gkrieg, and Haddock with with Iguana and to a lesser extent Gkrieg. RR I thought was unlikely because of his strong defense on Hydrad/Iguana. RR is a little unpredictable, though. In terms of just read, ignoring interactions, Haddock reads towniest (thought processes and play feels much more organic and unforced), RR is difficult for me to get a read on apart from interactions, I guess he's about the same as Lio who I have trouble reading, and Silver is worst. RR has gotten town cred for his claim, but he could simply be scum with that power.
Factoring in interactions, my preference would be:
Silver > RR > Lio > Haddock
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Because no one seems to be taking a font lynch seriously
I'm not entirely convinced it isn't better. But here's the real problem. If Font is actually SK and we lynch Font today, how can we not lynch you tomorrow? The scenario where Font lies about her target doesn't make sense.
So it's to whether or not the shot can help us.
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Haddock: Hope whatever it is works out.
Rr: Make sure you say what you're doing wrt motivating so you don't die and leave me to get chewed out Tomorrow.
Ww: Considering almost everyone is really town, I'm taking a null read on silver as a good reason to shoot him.
Waiting on rr and ww and then I'm voting.
Why aren't you voting already?
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Ok, well, worked for font, let's give claiming scum a go.
And no, liopoil, scum do not have daychat.
And yeah, I am scum. I mean, you guys are going to lynch me so I might as well claim. Font is SK, and my partner is going to win the game for us (scum).
However, follow my reasoning. It is in town's (and scum's) best interest to lynch the SK or no lynch.
1) no lynch.
Assume font helps town. Kills me. Scum kills town
It is now 5 alive, 1 sk, 1 scum. Lynch font. 3 alive, lylo.
Town has a good chance of winning. I mean, I hope my partner pulls it off, obviously, but it is anyone's game. In the last few lylos it has been a town win and a scum win. I am just hoping my partner is good.
2) lynch font.
Scum kills. Basically same as before. 5 alive, 2 scum. You lynch me, then lylo. Which as I stated above, is the best that town (and scum) can hope for
3) no lynch, motivated font. Kills 2 scum (lucky him). Town lynches him and wins. Which means.....font isn't going to do this. You play to your wincon. More likely:
4) no lynch, motivated font. Kills me/town. 5 alive, sk, scum. Lynch font, lylo to follow.
5) lynch me, motivated font. Kills scum/town (lucky him), it is now 4 alive with town, sk gets lynched, town wins. Great for town, but again. Play to your wincon. Not going to happen. More likely:
6) lynch me, motivated font. Kills town/town. 4 alive, sk, scum. No way town wins here. Impossible. It is either sk or scum, depending on who you lynch. Town should not want this. I don't want it either. I mean, font is claimed scum, but not my faction. I would rather trust my partner to win at lylo. Because even here, (accidentally) lynch town, it is 1-1-1 going into night, sk wins because bulletproof.
There might be more scenarios,but on my phone. Basically, those options give town a win if the SK decides to lose intentionally, or a (decent) shot at winning at lylo.
Now compared to lynching me:
Lynch me:
1) Motivated font. Kills my fellow scum and a town. 3v1 town wins. Not going to happen. You play to your wincon. More likely:
2) kills 2 town: 2v1v1. Situation as described above. Mislynch town, font wins. Kill font, scum wins. Kill scum, font wins. As scum, I don't feel comfortable with this.
3) Not motivated font: kills scum, 3v1 town wins. Again, wincon. I don't care that he says he is helping town, you play to win. More likely:
4) Kills town. 2v1v1. Been described. Town loses.
----
Also, note: scum kills town every time. Shooting a bulletproof sk does scum no good. And yeah, town can hope that scum and sk target the same town player, but do you really want to trust that?
And yeah, font might forfeit the game by killing my partner, or might think she is killing my partner and actually hit town. Do you really want to take that risk as town? Really? I would never. As the vt pm usually reads: your power is your vote. Town wins with their vote. Town doesn't win by trusting a SK whose wincon is totally different than towns own wincon.
I mean, you don't win by trusting me either. You won by finding scum. I win by trusting my partner. As town, I take the power of my vote over the power of a SK every time.
-
Didn't want a lynch until I was sure of my shot.
I guess I'm leaning towards silver and lio? Bleh.
I'm not shooting RR. I'm sure of that.
Eh, fuck it. Let's get this over with.
Vote: e
Ppe: Bitch please. I'm sure you only have one partner and I actually have a chance at winning. That's seems /so/ likely. If you want to make an appeal, convince me not to work with the town.
-
I mean, everything comes down to trusting a serial killer or trusting your vote. The day town decides to let a SK do its work instead of voting.....I don't even know.
If we do end up letting a serial killer do the dirty work for us, at least no lynch. Look at the scenarios I listed under lynching me. Town loses always if the SK plays to her wincon.
I assume people play to their wincon
-
Working against your own wincon is something that I assume you would not do as a reasonable person.
Everyone hates a kingmaking. Because you do have a chance to win
-
Kingmaking is a myth
-
I mean, I just can't imagine a situation where font plays against her wincon. Maybe that is naive of me. But scenarios do exist where a claimed sk can still win. And those scenarios mostly include lynching me. Yes, as non-sk, I actively want the SK to die. It hurts my teams chance of winning. It hurts towns chance of winning too.
-
But seriously. If we want to trust font, let's no lynch
-
So that's a no on working with me, e?
-
So that's a no on working with me, e?
I don't see that possibility. How would you work with me? Propose something
-
I mean, sure, I can work with you. I don't see it. Inspire me
-
We are just two scum from different factions. Not much we can do.
If you want me to say who my partner is, I laugh at you. Haha. Just like that. Haha.
-
If you had the numbers, we could lynch a town today, but I think that works out in my favor if you're not willing to test the extent of my bulletproof ability.
You could give me a safe town to shoot?
-
You could appeal to me to mafia side instead of townsiding? I'm pursuadable.
-
My entire case revolves around town wanting to do what town does best. What town is supposed to do. Lynch scum.
Lynch me (normal scum), town loses in almost every scenario unless font resigns by killing scum. There are scenarios where scum wins, where font wins, but not town.
Lynch font (sk scum), town might lose, but has a chance to win. I like my partner's chances better, or at least, I am willing to take that risk.
Just don't want town to give away the game to the SK. Just don't. Use your vote. Your power.
-
If you had the numbers, we could lynch a town today, but I think that works out in my favor if you're not willing to test the extent of my bulletproof ability.
You could give me a safe town to shoot?
I mean, it is ultimately up to my partner on if my partner wishes to test your ability. I have made my opinion clear.
I am not going to give a safe town to shoot either. I don't want to make an IC.
Plus, my wincon does not include you in it. And you win in a SK v scum. Every time. SK is always stronger than one scum alone. There is no "townside" or "mafia side" to you. There is only a SK side. I don't know why town doesn't see that
-
Oh well.
Hey, did you shoot Ichi with me n1?
-
Vote Count 4.3
fontisian (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): fontisian
Not Voting (5): liopoil, silverspawn, Haddock, Witherweaver, Roadrunner7671
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends June 29 at 9 am forum time. That's in 14 hours.
-
I will be around(ish) probably for the next few hours, then sleep, then check in again when I wake up. I really don't think there is much else to say though.
I am a great lynch.....tomorrow
-
oh e claimed scum. vote: e
-
oh e claimed scum. vote: e
Did you even read my post?
Fontisian also claimed scum, by the way
-
1) scum who might help town > scum who won't
2) I do not buy the theory that the SK can still win, which means that we should do the opposite of whatever you are advocating
3) I've already done the numbers. lynching you is better.
-
and call me naive, but I believe she's probably genuine.
-
Wacky idea time:
Don't listen to scum.
Wait, that's not a wacky idea. That's kinda smart! Why would the town listen to scum?
So let's not lynch Fontisian or no lynch.
But wait! Fontisian is also scum! And we can't listen to scum. So let's not lynch 2.7!
How do we feel?
-
Should I motivate Fontisian? I think yes.
Uh... I don't know. let's see. Plugging that into my analysis post:
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Three town get shot -> 1 - 1 - 1 Probably a Loss
... Two towns and mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 Win
... Two towns and SK get shot -> 2 - 1 LyLo
... Both scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Three towns get shot -> Loss
... Two towns and SK get shot -> Loss
... Two towns and one mafia get shot -> 1 - 1 - 1 Probably a Loss
... Mafia and SK and Town get shot -> 2 - 1 LyLo
... Two Mafia and anyone get shot -> Win
Comparing that to the original:
Let's examine both separately.
4 - 1 - 2
Lynch Mafia -> 4 - 1 - 1
... Two towns get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Town and scum gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
... Two Scum get shot -> Win
3 - 1 - 3
Lynch Mafia -> 3 - 1 - 2
... Two towns get shot -> Lose
... Town and SK get shot -> Lose
... Town and Mafia get shot -> 2 - 1 - 1 Could be winnable
... Mafia and SK gets shot -> 3 / 1 MyLo
And the answer is actually yes if we trust fontisian.
But if not, then no. Because then she gets a way to win with the very first line: We're at 4/1/1 after lynching e and all three scum shoot town. This might be the most likely outcome. So... yeah, yes if you trust her, no if you don't.
I personally like it because if she does shoot me, then an extra shot could still save the game. Particularly the first half, it could lead us to 2/1 vs the SK which is a win, rather than 2/1/1, which is probably a loss. Or, if mafia shoots the SK, it's the difference between a LyLo and an instant win.
Yeah, this analysis is assuming the SK plays against he wincon.
I know you silverspawn. I know you always play to your wincon, no matter what. Think through each of those scenarios with a green "win" and ask yourself, of you were the SK, would you pander to town and roll over and let them win? No. You might choose town over scum, yes. But never just give up.
While you are alive, there is hope. Dead, you have nothing. SK is still alive, still has hope. That 1v1v1 or 2v1v1 could both possibly be a SK win. I don't know.
But I do know you would never give up, and I question how you think fontisian would
-
Wacky idea time:
Don't listen to scum.
Wait, that's not a wacky idea. That's kinda smart! Why would the town listen to scum?
So let's not lynch Fontisian or no lynch.
But wait! Fontisian is also scum! And we can't listen to scum. So let's not lynch 2.7!
How do we feel?
I like it. We can't do anything.
Except you can
You can look at the numbers, and make an educated decision.
Yes, I don't want to get lynched. It might help me win. It will definitely make you lose.
-
2.7 already claimed a partner. So we're at 4 town 3 scum?
If we didn't have 2 night kills, we could lynch perfectly and win.
2.7, are you a PR? Is your buddy?
-
Silverspawn kindly unvote please.
-
Oh crap 14 hours. We actually need something.
I think we need one scum to kill another scum. So poE time.
Options that we can't do:
No lynch
Lynching 2.7
Lynching Fontisian
Lynching RR
Lynching WW
So that leaves?
Lynching ss
Lynching Haddock
Lynching Liopoil
-
I know you silverspawn. I know you always play to your wincon, no matter what.
What? That's not true. I was the one who didn't hammer a claimed Jester when he was survivor because I had promised to play with town.
-
Yeah, this analysis is assuming the SK plays against he wincon.
I know you are mafia this game, but if you want me to have a conversation with you, then don't say silly stuff. That analysis does obviously assume no such thing. It includes every case.
-
I believe Fontisian will try his best to shoot scum tonight, but I also think his alternate wincon will screw us over terribly.
I'm not listening to claimed scum. I hope Liopoil has a trick or 3 up his sleeve.
-
RR, I know you are crazy and all that, but you're advocating lynching neither of the two claimed scums. Think again.
-
when he was survivor
*I was survivor
-
Silverspawn kindly unvote please.
No thanks.
-
RR, I know you are crazy and all that, but you're advocating lynching neither of the two claimed scums. Think again.
And you're advocating to do what claimed scum wants.
So who's the real crazy one?
-
Does it take a 'crazy' person to know not to listen to claimed scum? Cause if so, I'm proud to be crazy.
-
if a bad person says the sky is blue, that doesn't make the sky yellow.
-
if a bad person says the sky is blue, that doesn't make the sky yellow.
One bad person says the sky is red and the grass is blue. The other bad person agrees the sky is red but they think the grass is purple.
And then there's me, looking at a gray sky and brown grass. You, on the other hand, see green grass and a blue sky. Even though the grass is dead and the sky is full of stormy clouds.
Analogies!
-
This'll make sense to Liopoil. I'm sort of confident in that.
-
I know you silverspawn. I know you always play to your wincon, no matter what.
What? That's not true. I was the one who didn't hammer a claimed Jester when he was survivor because I had promised to play with town.
What game was this? I don't recall it.
-
2.7, are you a PR?
-
So there's no rule about media.
Where's Awaclus? I need to make sure he's not the serial killer.
-
I know you silverspawn. I know you always play to your wincon, no matter what.
What? That's not true. I was the one who didn't hammer a claimed Jester when he was survivor because I had promised to play with town.
What game was this? I don't recall it.
The bastard game where I pretended to have a posting restriction and posted lots of mlp and other images.
-
Also, I had a thought. I was the serial killer in lost mafia (you know, the reinoe game). The SK had some seriously good powers. You know, like 1-shot death proof.
Check my QT from that game. Same mod, probably some of the same ideas. http://quicktopic.com/51/H/Bi4e2fkqhat
-
But it's kind of irrelevant whether I would do it, I think font will do it.
-
I know you silverspawn. I know you always play to your wincon, no matter what.
What? That's not true. I was the one who didn't hammer a claimed Jester when he was survivor because I had promised to play with town.
What game was this? I don't recall it.
The bastard game where I pretended to have a posting restriction and posted lots of mlp and other images.
Oh, yeah. I remember now. Probably forgot because it was bastard
-
2.7, are you a PR?
I'll assume you're ignoring this question. That's fair.
-
If font is death proof, all your scenarios where font can't win, throw them out.
-
2.7, are you a PR?
I'll assume you're ignoring this question. That's fair.
Very perceptive
-
2.7, are you a PR?
I'll assume you're ignoring this question. That's fair.
Very perceptive
I guess I can't communicate this to you softly. I'm thinking about motivating you if you can screw Fontisian up more.
-
2.7, are you a PR?
I'll assume you're ignoring this question. That's fair.
Very perceptive
I guess I can't communicate this to you softly. I'm thinking about motivating you if you can screw Fontisian up more.
If you weren't a claimed PR, this would be a pretty straight forward partner claim.
-
2.7, are you a PR?
I'll assume you're ignoring this question. That's fair.
Very perceptive
I guess I can't communicate this to you softly. I'm thinking about motivating you if you can screw Fontisian up more.
If you weren't a claimed PR, this would be a pretty straight forward partner claim.
See? Double strandeds. You want me to motivate your boy Fontisian but 2.7 is scary. Ooooohhhhh! You don't have a problem motivating claimed scum, do you want the SK to win or something?
-
Open your eyes, man! You're about to do EXACTLY what scum wants!
-
I actually told the truth about my role. I am actually a doctor/watcher.
I would love to be motivated. I can even doctor you!
-
I actually told the truth about my role. I am actually a doctor/watcher.
I would love to be motivated. I can even doctor you!
(If motivated, obviously. Right after I doctor my partner)
-
Okay, let's talk about that.
-
Planning on killing Fontisian tonight?
-
I want to lynch today though. No lynch seems bad, and I usually think no lynching is good.
-
I feel like this an attempt to save silver.
-
I feel like this an attempt to save silver.
I'd be willing to lynch silver today.
-
E's about to die, so he scum claims and /silver/, who's been doing shit all for days, is suddenly in my corner.
-
Vote: SS
Seems decentish.
-
Okay, let's talk about that.
The tricky thing about talking about doctor targets....scum knows who to kill. By scum, I mean fontisian. I obviously will know (as mafia) who mafia kills. I have already refused to work with font by giving him "safe" town targets. Working with you is fine, but discussing targets I will not confirm or deny.
I will use both targets if motivated
I will doctor my partner, but then I will also doctor another player not named fontisian.
-
Does watching help? I guess we learn if liopoil can target people, and Haddock, but it's a shot in the dark.
I want to talk about if you're killing Fontisian tonight, but I guess we'll just see.
-
Rr, are you crazy? If you lynch a town, we're both fucked.
Killing e at least buys time.
-
RR. I am voting for the player who claimed mafia. You are voting for a town. I'm pretty sure you are doing what scum wants, not me.
-
And if e isn't lynched, you'd better believe I'm using the bulletproof.
-
You are literally helping a player who ADMITS he wants MAFIA to win. You are helping a player who ADMITS HE WANTS MAFIA TO WIN. Jesus. I am doing the logical thing, which is to lynch the scum first who is harder to blackmail and won't help us no matter what.
-
This is one of those cases where so much has been said that players can pick arbitrary positions without immediately being called out on it, even though the fact base isn't really complicated. Happens disturbingly often recently.
-
Hey, silver, while you're here, could you actually advise my shot?
-
At this point, liopoil. Means I have been wrong on his reaction, but WW is unlikely, RR is town-crazy, Haddock was with me on the igu lynch.
By the way, RR, it would be nice if you unvoted. If scum can coordinate a quickhammer, the game will be lost, and it will frankly be your fault.
-
You might be right about that
Unvote
-
I was already conceding to you probably shooting me, to be honest. That's part of the reason why I advocate the motivation thing. If you shoot me + scum, according to the numbers I ran, that's winnable.
-
Oh crap 14 hours. We actually need something.
I think we need one scum to kill another scum. So poE time.
Options that we can't do:
No lynch
Lynching 2.7
Lynching Fontisian
Lynching RR
Lynching WW
So that leaves?
Lynching ss
Lynching Haddock
Lynching Liopoil
What?
-
We can't do what scum wants!
-
...
-
We're lynching one of them. I'm not sure I care who at this point.
-
We're lynching one of them. I'm not sure I care who at this point.
So WW is all for trusting the scum. Awesome.
Liopoil? Haddock?
-
RR is playing three-dimensional chess. Scum #1 advocates lynching scum #2 - because obviously no-one would be suicidal enough to advocate lynching town -, and Scum #2 advocates lynching scum #1 - because obviously no-one would be suicidal enough to advocate lynching town -, and RR's plan is to leave both scum alive so that he can avoid doing what either of them is suggesting.
-
Triviay we lynch e or fontisian today.
RR, motivate Haddock or WW tonight.
I think we should stick to the plan of lynching e and having fontisian kill only silverspawn.
Mafia should shoot fontisian or risk handing her the game.
RR I have so many tricks up my sleeve, you don't even know...
-
Hold up guys, Witherweaver is mafia. Remember, Teproc was the first to vote for J Reggie after I gave my warning?
Seriously though the ss/e team just doesn't fit with their D4 play and WW is actually the most likely alternative.
-
Wait what?
He's been /so/ town.
-
At this point, liopoil. Means I have been wrong on his reaction, but WW is unlikely, RR is town-crazy, Haddock was with me on the igu lynch.
By the way, RR, it would be nice if you unvoted. If scum can coordinate a quickhammer, the game will be lost, and it will frankly be your fault.
This is a towny post
-
Vote: WW
I am sorta confident liopoil is scum but whatever man.
-
Wait what?
He's been /so/ town.
Totally like scum to do that you know.
Mostly I am just messing around. You should still shoot silver. If not shoot the real scum. If you refuse to shoot scum, shoot me.
-
Vote: WW
I am sorta confident liopoil is scum but whatever man.
What the hell dude slow down and then STOP.
-
Jesus fuck, rr.
Vote me or vote e.
-
Jesus fuck, rr.
Vote me or vote e.
No! I am not agreeing with scum!
-
How the fuck am I supposed to shoot the /real/ scum?
Rr: ahhhhhhhhgsh f dh
-
Jesus fuck, rr.
Vote me or vote e.
No! I am not agreeing with scum!
Both scum would rather lynch town than each other, really. There are three total scum, who can quickhammer.
-
How the fuck am I supposed to shoot the /real/ scum?
Rr: ahhhhhhhhgsh f dh
Welcome to the Dominion forum!
-
I swear, I will vote ww and wash my hands of this game if you don't get your shit together.
-
How the fuck am I supposed to shoot the /real/ scum?
Rr: ahhhhhhhhgsh f dh
You know maybe you shouldn't shoot at all. I am just so torn.
-
I swear, I will vote ww and wash my hands of this game if you don't get your shit together.
If you vote ww we will insta-lynch you
-
Fontisian shouldn't shoot? That makes a bit of sense.
-
Roadrunner, not lynching scum today is just about the only way we lose this game. Lynching e feels like an 80%+ winrate to me.
-
No, that makes no sense.
-
Bring it!
Why is this even happening? We spent 6 fucking days hashing out a plan that everyone except e agreed with, and it all goes to hell when e claims mafia. Whyyyyyy
-
Vote: 2.71828.....
Not planning on moving this vote.
-
Roadrunner, not lynching scum today is just about the only way we lose this game. Lynching e feels like an 80%+ winrate to me.
If you want Fontisian to win, go ahead and lynch 2.7. Whatever, man.
Maybe I'l get the loser MVP nod for being the eye in the storm that is the 2.7 lynch.
-
Vote: 2.71828.....
Not planning on moving this vote.
Move your vote beforw the serial killer wins.
-
Look, RR.
The reason why each scum is advocating lynching the other scum is because they believe that's the best result they can achieve. It is logical, and does not mean that lynching scum is worse than lynching town.
For mafia: Lynching town > Lynching SK >> Lynching Mafia
For SK: Lynching town > Lynching Mafia >> Lynching SK
For Town: Lynching Mafia > Lynching SK >> Lynching Town
Please unvote.
-
OR, better yet, lynch e.
-
Roadrunner, fontisian has little chance of winning. She almost certainly has no more that 1-shot active bulletproof. And uh town has a million resources.
L-1 by the way, and I wouldn't mind a hammer.
-
Or here's how it works:
We lynch Fontisian: Mafia wins
We lynch 2.7: Fontisian wins
We no lynch: Mafia wins
We pull crazy shit: We have a chance
-
Roadrunner, not lynching scum today is just about the only way we lose this game. Lynching e feels like an 80%+ winrate to me.
If you want Fontisian to win, go ahead and lynch 2.7. Whatever, man.
Maybe I'l get the loser MVP nod for being the eye in the storm that is the 2.7 lynch.
I can't tell if you are delusional or mafia.
-
No hammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Roadrunner, not lynching scum today is just about the only way we lose this game. Lynching e feels like an 80%+ winrate to me.
If you want Fontisian to win, go ahead and lynch 2.7. Whatever, man.
Maybe I'l get the loser MVP nod for being the eye in the storm that is the 2.7 lynch.
I can't tell if you are delusional or mafia.
It's the boy whi cries wolf.
I am always wrong so the one time I'm right no one believes me.
-
Of course there's no hammer, I'm the fucking serial killer
-
Or here's how it works:
We lynch Fontisian: Mafia wins
We lynch 2.7: Fontisian wins
We no lynch: Mafia wins
We pull crazy shit: We have a chance
We lynch Fontisian: We probably win, maybe mafia
We lynch 2.7: We almost cetainly win
We no lynch: Uh probably some scum wins
We pull crazy shit: Some scum wins
-
Decide your night action and this day
-
Roadrunner has protested every single mafia lynch and even sheeped gkrieg.
-
Or here's how it works:
We lynch Fontisian: Mafia wins
We lynch 2.7: Fontisian wins
We no lynch: Mafia wins
We pull crazy shit: We have a chance
We lynch Fontisian: We probably win, maybe mafia
We lynch 2.7: We almost cetainly win
We no lynch: Uh probably some scum wins
We pull crazy shit: Some scum wins
You are incorrect
-
Roadrunner has protested every single mafia lynch and even sheeped gkrieg.
Then lynch me! You have your case!
-
Or here's how it works:
We lynch Fontisian: Mafia wins
We lynch 2.7: Fontisian wins
We no lynch: Mafia wins
We pull crazy shit: We have a chance
We lynch Fontisian: We probably win, maybe mafia
We lynch 2.7: We almost cetainly win
We no lynch: Uh probably some scum wins
We pull crazy shit: Some scum wins
You are incorrect
Do you know something I don't? Because I think I know something you don't.
-
Roadrunner has protested every single mafia lynch and even sheeped gkrieg.
Then lynch me! You have your case!
I totally might, tomorrow.
-
Roadrunner has protested every single mafia lynch and even sheeped gkrieg.
Then lynch me! You have your case!
I totally might, tomorrow.
There won't be a tomorrow! It's the end of the world, and all I can do is watch
-
Roadrunner has protested every single mafia lynch and even sheeped gkrieg.
Then lynch me! You have your case!
I totally might, tomorrow.
There won't be a tomorrow! It's the end of the world, and all I can do is watch
After lynching e there are one mafia, one SK. Maximum of two kills, resulting in at worst 2 town deaths, for 2-1-1 tomorrow. Not game over, and in fact should be a town win.
-
Fontisian, do not shoot tonight. I am unsure enough about the last mafia and 3-1-1 is actually quite good.
-
Understood.
-
PseudoVote: No shot
-
pseudoVote: double shoot
-
pseudoVote: double shoot
This is the one way to potentially actusmally hand the game to font, if the NKs are the worst. It's conceivable that she actually accidentally shoots two town anyway, and town!you should especially know that. Don't put the game on dice when we have it under some sort of control.
I'd rather she shot just me than a double shot, actually.
-
Based on what I know, the game could quite easily go to mafia if she shoots a town.
-
I believe lio is town. I am going to listen to him.
-
Based on what I know, the game could quite easily go to mafia if she shoots a town.
Uh, so she shouldn't shoot...
Just think about what happens at 2-1-1 during a nightphase with a claimed SK and a lot of information about who the mafia is.
-
Vote: WW
I am sorta confident liopoil is scum but whatever man.
... dude
-
Vote: WW
I am sorta confident liopoil is scum but whatever man.
... dude
Anything's better than handing the game to scum.
-
Vote: WW
I am sorta confident liopoil is scum but whatever man.
... dude
Anything's better than handing the game to scum.
Which is what you're trying to do.
-
WW you could just hammer e if you're ready.
Roadrunner, uh, please don't motivate fontisian. Actually motivating anyone is probably a bad idea.
-
WW you could just hammer e if you're ready.
Roadrunner, uh, please don't motivate fontisian. Actually motivating anyone is probably a bad idea.
Is he at L-1?
-
Yes.
-
Oh, Silver voted.
Vote: e
-
Gg I guess
-
WW you could just hammer e if you're ready.
Roadrunner, uh, please don't motivate fontisian. Actually motivating anyone is probably a bad idea.
Is he at L-1?
Yes. Votecount:
2.71828..... : fontisian, silverspawn, liopoil [L-1]
fontisian: 2.71828.....
Witherweaver: Roadrunner7828
Not Voting: Witherweaver, Haddock
PPE: okay cool
-
Good game fontisian. Congrats on the win. I really don't think town has a chance. Maybe scum does, but totally not town
-
Gg I guess
I don't understand how town!RR is coming to these conclusions.
What is your motivation plan tonight? We need to hold you accountable to what you do. I think you should not motivate anyone. In fact, maybe fontisian should shoot you if you motivate her.
-
Good game fontisian. Congrats on the win. I really don't think town has a chance. Maybe scum does, but totally not town
Do you have two partners or something?
-
Good game fontisian. Congrats on the win. I really don't think town has a chance. Maybe scum does, but totally not town
Called it
-
Anyway, mafia should definitely shoot fontisian. It's pretty straightforward. If they don't, then in all likelihood she will still have her bulletproof for night 5, when it will probably be too late for mafia. Whereas if you shoot fontisian you can win by avoiding being lynched, whoever you are.
-
Good game fontisian. Congrats on the win. I really don't think town has a chance. Maybe scum does, but totally not town
Called it
You realize e is just making stuff up right? Mafia do not actually know town's situation, and he's also sort of bitter that his team is going to lose.
-
Good game fontisian. Congrats on the win. I really don't think town has a chance. Maybe scum does, but totally not town
Called it
You realize e is just making stuff up right? Mafia do not actually know town's situation, and he's also sort of bitter that his team is going to lose.
Doesn't seem like 2.7.
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So this is kind of frustrating. Everyone thinks town is in a bad spot except for me, who thinks we are going to win. Guess I better just make it happen then.
I really don't see anything that scum could do that might result in them winning. They have no good options tonight, no matter who they are.
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Okay, look.
Fontisian is going to win via the SK alternative wincon. The end.
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Okay, look.
Fontisian is going to win via the SK alternative wincon. The end.
How do you know this?
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Okay, look.
Fontisian is going to win via the SK alternative wincon. The end.
Okay, what is this alt. wincon? Because I think I know what it is and am decidedly not scared of it.
Roadrunner, commit to what you will do tonight in your next post. I suggest motivating nobody, or equivalently, me.
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Chill. I still can't win. E's messing with you.
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I'm motivating ss
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I'm motivating ss
Why?
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Chill. I still can't win. E's messing with you.
Not exactly reassuring from you. But seriously, if Roadrunner motivates you I would advise shooting him. There is a mafia narrative here and it would basically require he motivates you. So I think only scum!RR should motivate you, and RR should promise not to do so right now.
PPE:
I'm motivating ss
Uh, so even if he is mafia he still doesn't get two kills, right? Then that's probably okay
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I'm motivating ss
Why?
I switched over from Fontisian to someone else.
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Roadrunner feels like he could be some weird traitor sort of role, which would be scary...
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Got it @lio
Also, reassuring you isn't my job. Everyone will see tomorrow.
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Roadrunner feels like he could be some weird traitor sort of role, which would be scary...
Survivor?
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If you are, now would be the time to claim.
Odds are, if you don't talk, you're gonna get shot.
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I think scum should shoot town.
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If you are, now would be the time to claim.
Odds are, if you don't talk, you're gonna get shot.
You can probably hear me sighing.
I am a town aligned motivator who had a one shot follow and a suspicion.
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Sadness.
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Okay, well I'll see you all tomorrow then.
Well, not you e. As well as 0-2 other people. But if ss follows e's advice, then I'll definitely see fontisian and ss tomorrow.
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Sadness.
You should be quite happy right now
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I am kind of excited to see the speccy. Interested what they think of everything. I mean, my first time to claim scum in a game. Didn't work out in the end.
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Day 4 Final Vote Count
fontisian (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (4): fontisian, silverspawn, liopoil, Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (1): Haddock
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
-
Suddenly, the speaker said "We interrupt this program for some breaking news."
"What's this?" Molly asks. They interrupt coverage of Britain leaving the EU for more breaking news?"
John asks their driver to turn the volume up. "Just a few minutes ago, a video released in the internet has caused major confusion. It has been posted by a group that calls themselves the Animal Liberation Front. In it, a hooded man claims that they have infected London's drinking water supply. According to the video, the water has been contaminated with mutated Ebola germs."
John and Molly exchange a quick, meaningful look.
"The terrorists claim that they have a cure, but they would only supply it if any captive animal within Great Britain was to be freed within the next 24 hours. Scotland Yard has not yet confirmed or denied if the threat is authentic; a press conference is scheduled for later in the afternoon. We will keep you informed as this story unfolds."
"Bioterrorists", Molly says, aghast. "Do you think the cat...?"
"Certainly. We must hope to get answers from this Dr Gorman."
Dr Gorman's office is already, closed, but John is beyond caring now. He hammers his fists against the door. "Open up!"
There is no response.
"We need to break in." John says, desperate. "Wait." Molly moves to the door and pushes. It is not locked. Careful, the two of them step in. "Dr Gorman?" Noone seems to be in the clinic. John and Molly move through the rooms until they enter the examination room.
There, they find Dr Gorman. She lies on the ground face down. Medical equipment is scattered all around her. "Irene." John thinks out loud. Could she have gotten here first, and exacted her revenge? But why would she not tell him?
"I don't think it was her," Molly objects, pointing towards Gorman's neck. They they were again, they same strangle marks John had seen before.
2.71828..... has been lynched! He was Amelia Gorman, the Mafia Watching Doctor!
Night 4 begins now and ends July 1 at 4 am forum time. Night will be shortened if all players with night actions request so.
THREAD LOCKED!
-
Behind them, a woman in her fifties steps into the room.She leans on a cane as she walks and wears a large pink hat. "I'm sorry, John. I am afraid you were too slow."
John turns around abruptly. "Who are you?"
"Oh, yes, introductions. Where are my manners? My name is Jane Moriarty. I understand you met my son?"
"Moriarty." John' eyes tightened. "You are behind it."
"You did not really think that my son rose from the dead, did you? Well, maybe you did." Moriarty looks at the body the lies between her and John. "I cannot help but be disappointed. I had high hopes that you and this Sherlock Holmes would figure out what my little terrorist group was up to."
"Your little terrorist group?"
"Of course they turned to me for help. And such ambition... infecting a whole city with a deadly virus. Yet, for what? To free some animals unfit to be free?" She makes a derogatory handwave. "I could think of so much more interesting things one might do with such leverage. And I will."
"You... you killed Mary!" John's eyes light with rage.
"Not me, personally. It was my friend Oscar." Out of the shadow behind her, a massive man moves behind her. "The Golem, they call him. Though it was an accident, really. I merely needed to rid myself of one little terrorist, and your Mary stumbled upom the scene in the wrong moment."
John picks up a scalpel form the tray next to him. "You will pay."
"Oh, am I the one who will pay?" Moriarty laughs mockingly. "It would seem to me that you are the ones who pay, for the role you played in my son's death. Oscar, if you would be so kind?"
The Golem takes four large steps towards John. John tries to hit him with the scalepl, but the Golem grab his arm mid-air, holding tightly. Molly picks up a large iron tube and smashes it against the Golem's back, but he only grunt and shoves Molly aside with his free arm. Molly's head bangs against a locker and she goes down, unconscious.
"Well, as nice as it is to watch you go down, I fear I must be going. There is much left to be done." With these words, Moriarty turns around and leaves.
Witherweaver has been killed! He was Jeremy Gibson, the Mafia 1-shot Lightning Rod 1-shot Nexus!
Roadrunner7671 has been killed! He was Mrs Hudson, the (1-shot Following) Motivator!
Haddock and liopoil have been endgamed.
fontisian, who was Oscar Dzundza, the (Ninja/Bulletproof/Ascetic) Oracle Serial Killer, wins!
silverspawn, who was Jane Moriarty, the (1-shot Bulletproof) JOAT Consultant Criminal, wins as well!
-
QTs:
Mafia QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/r4vniMf3DGee)
silverspawn/fontisian Neighborhood (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/7kMaGVDt3a9cs)
Seprix/Teproc Neighborhood (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/VjRnr86rtqka)
Speccy 1 (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/MTrvX5EcDwTk)
Speccy 2 (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tGdNETAYFAf)
Speccy 3 (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/wXSHUeHxfUa)
Mod QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/sdY6FumvFFp4)
fontisian (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UbDfqnbk2AsNy)
silverspawn (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/PjsYb7FnpZ2)
Teproc/Witherweaver (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jph5JgP5DQm)
2.71828..... (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/sxQTQmDh476Lb)
gkrieg13 (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ntbnYDvHdYE)
Hydrad/iguanaiguana (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/WyLggDtdiMyjs)
Roadrunner7671 (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/CGVejFNaBwP)
Seprix (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UFx62tZx23Cp)
J Reggie (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/N4F5X2W6jkEpm)
Ichimaru Gin (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Qx554yDbmhj)
Awaclus (http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/wyXCtF8NGJL5b)
-
dang
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Meh. We would never in a million years have lynched WW anyway. So it hardly matters.
So fonti's win condition was that she could win with silver? Which is what happened I guess?
Lynching her maybe better then, but it looks like we were toast in any case.
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So fonti's win condition was that she could win with silver? Which is what happened I guess?
Right yes.
Now trying to figure ways in which we could have won this 2-1-1, but I agree with faust that it's impossible.
Lio, can you explain just what the heck you were talking about?
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Faust, could you summarise what happened on the final night? It doesn't seem to be in the Mod QT, and there's a fair amount going on there. Not that I think you did anything wrong, I'm just interested.
Thanks for the game by the way. We were toast pretty early, lost way too many PRs way too soon.
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
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Well I was wrong about Seprix targetting e N1, though I did say it was e or ADK.
I wonder whether scum knowing who silver was actually affected the game? Maybe it aided in their coordination. Probably not that much though.
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Meh. We would never in a million years have lynched WW anyway. So it hardly matters.
So fonti's win condition was that she could win with silver? Which is what happened I guess?
Lynching her maybe better then, but it looks like we were toast in any case.
We could have totally lynched WW, and I was already talking about it. What is this 6 scum nonsense? I want to see PMs!
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
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Haddock were you VT?
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Meh. We would never in a million years have lynched WW anyway. So it hardly matters.
So fonti's win condition was that she could win with silver? Which is what happened I guess?
Lynching her maybe better then, but it looks like we were toast in any case.
We could have totally lynched WW, and I was already talking about it. What is this 6 scum nonsense? I want to see PMs!
He was dead, that actually wasn't the issue.
Silver is just a character who wins if town lose. Kinda silly but eh. And he told fonti it was him, so game set match right there.
The QTs are all there, friend.
Yes I was a VT.
I did kinda say we should have lynched fonti. MIGHT have won us the game. e for the next lynch and then it was a matter of lynching WW (which still probably wouldn't have happened, esp. with silver lurking).
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Yes I was a VT.
And so were you, to my shock. Man I don't think that was brilliant play from you. You had me totally believing you had a gamesaving PR. Not that my vote mattered or anything, being the only towny left other than you.
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Yes I was a VT.
And so were you, to my shock. Man I don't think that was brilliant play from you. You had me totally believing you had a gamesaving PR. Not that my vote mattered or anything, being the only towny left other than you.
And RR. Hmm that no lynch plan. Don't think that would have worked either. Man, we were totally done for, way too many scum left.
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Kinda silly but eh.
Sorry for spam. Just saw this and wanted to make it clear that this is not intended as a dig at the setup. The setup is actually pretty extremely badass.
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
Okay, I see now. Wow that is even worse than 6 scum actually. I can't help but think that's broken; we had only two mislynches, and the SK shot mafia twic. Literally unwinnable by day four I think. Not balanced in my mind.
I mean I expected fontisian to be defecting but I didn't expect her to literally have a scumbuddy. SKs generally don't work like that, you know.
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
Okay, I see now. Wow that is even worse than 6 scum actually. I can't help but think that's broken; we had only two mislynches, and the SK shot mafia twic. Literally unwinnable by day four I think. Not balanced in my mind.
I think the loss of PRs early contributed a lot to this. It would have felt much more balanced if scum's PR aim had been less insanely good. (Or we hadn't lynched Awaclus)
Hard to say for certain.
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(Or we hadn't lynched Awaclus)
Only 2 scum on that wagon, and no mafia at all. This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Yes I was a VT.
And so were you, to my shock. Man I don't think that was brilliant play from you. You had me totally believing you had a gamesaving PR. Not that my vote mattered or anything, being the only towny left other than you.
Okay I'm pretty sure I would have won us the game in actual 2-1-1 though. I was crumbind bulletproof townie so hard. At first it was terrible early on bc I was inadvertently funnelling kills away from me and towards townies. But in the end I have to think scum would have thought I was bulletproof and so would be even more incentivied to shoot each other. I would claim it of neccessary, and it totally fit. I dunno, I thought bulletproof (and bomb) were basically the only feasible explanations for my role. I was surprised nobody said it.
On day one I didn't claim bc you should just lynch vts when they claim (and PRs too). That os bad play for almost every PR, so I was surprised people didn't assume I was a VT. I never could draw the nightkill though bc I was scummy. But on day 4 I thought I had found a use for it, and I really do think we would have win 2-1-1, or 1-1-1 if font is no longer bulletproof.
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
Okay, I see now. Wow that is even worse than 6 scum actually. I can't help but think that's broken; we had only two mislynches, and the SK shot mafia twic. Literally unwinnable by day four I think. Not balanced in my mind.
I think the loss of PRs early contributed a lot to this. It would have felt much more balanced if scum's PR aim had been less insanely good. (Or we hadn't lynched Awaclus)
Hard to say for certain.
We had the gkrieg kill, which I don't think we should have had to count on. And like, the kills were just not in our control at all.
What did mafia know about silverspawn?
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As requested, night actions:
D1:
Nothing
N1:
Teproc uses Lightning Rod (success)
Teproc kills Melisandre (fails due to being jailkept)
J Reggie targets Jan and liopoil (redirected to Teproc)
Seprix targets ADK (redirected to Teproc)
e doctors Melisandre (redirected to Teproc)
fontisian uses Ascetic (success)
fontisian kills Ichimaru Gin (success)
D2:
RR motivates liopoil (no effect)
N2:
gkrieg Bus drives e and Seprix (success)
gkrieg kills e (redirected to Seprix)
e watches fontisian (fails)
fontisian uses Ascetic (success)
fontisian kills J Reggie (success)
J Reggie investigates RR twice (fails; killed before investigation)
D3:
RR motivates and follows fontisian (success)
N3:
Fontisian kills gkrieg and Jan (success)
Fontisian uses Bulletproof (success)
gkrieg kills Melisandre (success)
D4:
RR motivates silver (success)
N4:
WW kills RR (success)
fontisian kills WW (success)
silver redirects Haddock onto liopoil (success)
silver deflects form fontisian to RR (success)
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(and bomb)
My theory was that you were a passive town PR that allowed the SK to win with town if you were alive. All well and great except that was totally obvious so mafia would have just killed you.
Then you shot that theory down so I came to the conclusion that you were indeed a bomb. And then yeah we could have won the 2-1-1. If it were a 2-1-1.
As it is it ended up more like 2-2 and that really is unwinnable.
What did mafia know about silverspawn?
Everything. And they weren't really supposed to. But of course it seems he was within his rights to just claim in the QT, it's only the fact that he used his real login which happened to confirm that his claim was true.
PPE. Thanks faust :)
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Promise to myself: in the future I will always read my PM before I post
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
Okay, I see now. Wow that is even worse than 6 scum actually. I can't help but think that's broken; we had only two mislynches, and the SK shot mafia twic. Literally unwinnable by day four I think. Not balanced in my mind.
I mean I expected fontisian to be defecting but I didn't expect her to literally have a scumbuddy. SKs generally don't work like that, you know.
I think every team had rougly equal chances. The more teams there are, the smaller the chances for an individual team. 6 scum in 2 teams is fine for a game this size, and town had some pretty strong PRs.
Also, there was a way to town victory on D4 if town had listened to RR and lynched silver.
That said, mafia's Lightning Rod/Watcher combo was unfortunate. That's the one thing I would change if I were to run the setup again.
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Regardless of balance, I think the role I had was super cool and smartly designed.
That said, mafia's Lightning Rod/Watcher combo was unfortunate. That's the one thing I would change if I were to run the setup again.
Was that unintentional?
Reading QT's now.
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Everything. And they weren't really supposed to. But of course it seems he was within his rights to just claim in the QT, it's only the fact that he used his real login which happened to confirm that his claim was true.
PPE. Thanks faust :)
Well, they did not know his win condition. Though I was really surprised that WW did not realize what was going on when silver pushed the e lynch instead of securing the victory by lynching fontisian.
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Regardless of balance, I think the role I had was super cool and smartly designed.
That said, mafia's Lightning Rod/Watcher combo was unfortunate. That's the one thing I would change if I were to run the setup again.
Was that unintentional?
Reading QT's now.
I somehow didn't think it was that strong. Maybe I should have told Seprix who he had the neighborhood with; that would have weakened it a lot and outed Teproc as scum.
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Why the fuck were we endgamed?
It was unwinnable. Silver and fonti just force the no lynch then fonti kills one of us. Done and done.
What even is silverspawn?
Okay, I see now. Wow that is even worse than 6 scum actually. I can't help but think that's broken; we had only two mislynches, and the SK shot mafia twic. Literally unwinnable by day four I think. Not balanced in my mind.
I mean I expected fontisian to be defecting but I didn't expect her to literally have a scumbuddy. SKs generally don't work like that, you know.
I think every team had rougly equal chances. The more teams there are, the smaller the chances for an individual team. 6 scum in 2 teams is fine for a game this size, and town had some pretty strong PRs.
Also, there was a way to town victory on D4 if town had listened to RR and lynched silver.
We were unfortunate with the way the kills fell out. Was the Lightning Rod/Watcher combo what allowed mafia to be so accurate with PR sniping? Haven't read that yet.
Well RR was advocating the no lynch at first, which definitely wouldn't have worked.
As for lynching silver, I was certainly considering that, but I don't see how it could have happened anyway:
There were only 3 town left and the other 4 people knew everything between them. They had total control over who got lynched. They could in fact have just all come out publicly in thread and let town kingmake. Which is essentially what happened anyway. Town did some kingmaking unknowingly.
Besides, I think it's reasonable in 90% of situations to lynch people who you know are scum. Without knowledge of the setup, lynching conf!scum is going to be better than lynching someone who's been acting a bit scummily in almost all situations.
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well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
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well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
Quite.
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Well RR was advocating the no lynch at first, which definitely wouldn't have worked.
RR was never advocating no lynch. He said e was advocating no lynch, and therefore it shouldn't be done.
As for lynching silver, I was certainly considering that, but I don't see how it could have happened anyway:
There were only 3 town left and the other 4 people knew everything between them. They had total control over who got lynched.
I thought that once WW realized that silver betrayed him (he voted e over fonti after all), he might have jumped that wagon. Which really would have been better for him then any kingmaking scenario: fontisian would have to kill e (can't kill WW since e wa a Doctor), D5 starts with 4 alive (5 if WW shoots fontisian), claimed SK and a hidden scum. That's a good position.
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well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
But I think RR had a valid point: You cannot trust scum. I cannot think of a single instance where that went well.
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Wait, how did Roadrunner know anything? There was no actual reason from our information to lynch ss. It did become clear at the end that ss was not the only mafia, so I did start suspecting ww. But like, Moriarty is even worse than a single scum of any type.
It looks like ss rolecopped me, but like, he wasn't supposed to exist. I really don't think the moriarty role works at all.
well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
But I think RR had a valid point: You cannot trust scum. I cannot think of a single instance where that went well.
Nobody was trusting scum.
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Wait, how did Roadrunner know anything? There was no actual reason from our information to lynch ss. It did become clear at the end that ss was not the only mafia, so I did start suspecting ww. But like, Moriarty is even worse than a single scum of any type.
It looks like ss rolecopped me, but like, he wasn't supposed to exist. I really don't think the moriarty role works at all.
well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
But I think RR had a valid point: You cannot trust scum. I cannot think of a single instance where that went well.
Nobody was trusting scum.
Yet you lynched the person scum wanted you to lynch. You know, the person scum claimed to have an investigative result on even before being outed. That is how badly scum wanted them lynched.
Why do you think Moriarty doesn't work?
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Well RR was advocating the no lynch at first, which definitely wouldn't have worked.
RR was never advocating no lynch.
You're right. I'm thinking of a different thing.
well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
But I think RR had a valid point: You cannot trust scum. I cannot think of a single instance where that went well.
Sure. But we weren't exactly trusting scum. We had two scums there. Lynching neither was probably completely insane.
(yeah OK so there's a scenario in which it was correct, but it was a long shot. It also implied the existence of way more scum than would have made a win seem likely, so from a town perspective it's not unreasonable to discount that on the grounds that we were probably toast in that scenario anyway.)
So we had to lynch one or the other. By doing so it looks like we're "trusting" one scum or the other, but really we're just picking a lynch and crossing our fingers.
Your narrative for lynching silver being good is all well and fine but with the information we had there was no way in a million years for town to predict that.
RR may have been right as it happens, but he was as blind as the rest of us.
And it STILL relies on WW essentially siding with town.
I don't think town chose the wrong thing at the end. I'd do the same again. (Maybe would have lynched fonti but that wasn't likely to end well either.) Really we were just picking the manner of our demise.
PPE. Scum also wanted fonti dead. Like, one way or another we were lynching either e or fonti, and there were scums encouraging both of those lynches. There's nothing that town can realistically take from that. It's obvious to you from the perfect information, but going blind I don't think our play can be faulted on that final day. Fault town for poor choices in the early game.
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I think what I said in the thread was sound. If two scum are outed, it is expected that both are going to push for the other scum's lynch. That does not mean that lynching one of them is bad.
Without me it might have worked, too, and how could town know a role such as mine existed?
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Like, RR was right as it happens.
But equally it was possible that e and fonti were the only remaining scum. (That looks like a weakscum setup, but you never can tell, PRs can make up for such things.)
In that situation, e's claim looks weird but makes some kind of sense. He thinks he's done for, so he goes for a gambit where he tries to convince town to do exactly what RR ended up advocating. Then town lynch silver and e snatches victory from the jaws of defeat. A desperate play, but maybe his only option.
There's simply no way to know.
PPE. Couldn't agree more, silver.
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Wait, how did Roadrunner know anything? There was no actual reason from our information to lynch ss. It did become clear at the end that ss was not the only mafia, so I did start suspecting ww. But like, Moriarty is even worse than a single scum of any type.
It looks like ss rolecopped me, but like, he wasn't supposed to exist. I really don't think the moriarty role works at all.
well yes, lynching me (or anyone else) when there are 2 claimed scum is madness. That can't be expected of town.
But I think RR had a valid point: You cannot trust scum. I cannot think of a single instance where that went well.
Nobody was trusting scum.
Yet you lynched the person scum wanted you to lynch. You know, the person scum claimed to have an investigative result on even before being outed. That is how badly scum wanted them lynched.
Why do you think Moriarty doesn't work?
Obviously with our information, and with 5 scum in the game, we had to lynch fontisian or e. Qe lynched e not because we trusted font. but because we felt that we needed to lynch mafia before the SK. If we had lynched fontisian it would have had nothingnto do with trusting e.
Moriarty has to power to choose whichever scumteam is winning and tell then about the other scumteam AND get the losing scumteam to keep losing by still shooting town. He also gets to coordinate the two team's nightkills amd can appear towny very easily by "bussing" when actually this does not hurt his wincon (see: the fabricated iguana scumslip). His existence makes a scum win and a moriarty win highly probable. Not to mention that he is basically immune to NK. He nearly effectively has control of a 6-person scumteam with two kills, and town just doesn't stand a chance to that.
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Well, I think that in general there's something to be said about letting outed scum live if there is other scum still remaining. Lynching outed scum just doesn't give any additional information, and thus their lynch can be delayed until the last possible moment.
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Well, I think that in general there's something to be said about letting outed scum live if there is other scum still remaining. Lynching outed scum just doesn't give any additional information, and thus their lynch can be delayed until the last possible moment.
Disagree. Several reasons.
We couldn't know if there was even another scum left. It was likely but not confirmed.
Also allowing kills to happen assists with PoE in deciding who to pick to lynch.
Finally lynching scum means killing off some scum PRs.
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Moriarty has to power to choose whichever scumteam is winning and tell then about the other scumteam AND get the losing scumteam to keep losing by still shooting town. He also gets to coordinate the two team's nightkills amd can appear towny very easily by "bussing" when actually this does not hurt his wincon (see: the fabricated iguana scumslip). His existence makes a scum win and a moriarty win highly probable. Not to mention that he is basically immune to NK. He nearly effectively has control of a 6-person scumteam with two kills, and town just doesn't stand a chance to that.
fontisian was never forced to out herself to silver. Scum had it harder, but they could have banned silver from their QT, which they didn't. The mafia team made a big mistake in trusting silver too much, and that is why they lost. They could have easily lynched silver, but they didn't. They could also have nightkilled him if they tried hard enough. Moriarty was a boost to the SK and a nerf for the mafia mostly.
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How can the mafia team lynch me? I have all of their identities. And it's not like a prisoners dilemma where doing it loses my ability to blackmail; I can sell them out piece by piece if I want to.
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Can I just say again how terrible the ADK lynch was? Like, just, the absolute worst.
ADK was totally and consistently towny.
Hmm. Well half of ADK's wagon was scum, I guess. So that's a little less bad.
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How can the mafia team lynch me? I have all of their identities. And it's not like a prisoners dilemma where doing it loses my ability to blackmail; I can sell them out piece by piece if I want to.
Well, they claim an investigative result on you, you spill some names that you claim are mafia in your defense, get lynched, flip scum, and everyone forgets about your accusations. Similar thing happened in yuma's RMM28 with PPS.
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Everything you're saying is right, faust. But I still don't think you can conclude that town played incorrectly at the end. What little control we had only really existed for us to decide our fate.
Yes we could have tried to lynch silver. I maintain that in 99 out of 100 setups that would have been the wrong thing to do. It's a very intricate situation that led to that being the right thing, and relied on the existence of a role like silver's, which I've never seen before.
I feel like you're trying to tell town that we were wrong at the end there. As it happens it didn't work out, but I think statistically our play was basically fine. Fonti might have been a better lynch.
I think you are coming at this from a position where you knew everything all along and it's harder for you to see that we literally could never have known enough to make the right choice.
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How can the mafia team lynch me? I have all of their identities. And it's not like a prisoners dilemma where doing it loses my ability to blackmail; I can sell them out piece by piece if I want to.
Well, they claim an investigative result on you, you spill some names that you claim are mafia in your defense, get lynched, flip scum, and everyone forgets about your accusations. Similar thing happened in yuma's RMM28 with PPS.
Well. That could work, theoretically. But a) it starts with a 1 on 1. If things go bad, mafia gets lynched not me, and b) even if it doesn't, I can give a super extensive and detailed claim of mafia's players and and roles and plans if I want to, can you really have that out there? What if they do believe me... or see that I was right after they lynch just one of them... etc.
Also they were not even supposed to know my identity.
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Admittedly mafia made the same mistake I did and claimed all of their roles in the QT before reading their PMs carefully, which made life a lot easier for me.
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Everything you're saying is right, faust. But I still don't think you can conclude that town played incorrectly at the end. What little control we had only really existed for us to decide our fate.
Yes we could have tried to lynch silver. I maintain that in 99 out of 100 setups that would have been the wrong thing to do. It's a very intricate situation that led to that being the right thing, and relied on the existence of a role like silver's, which I've never seen before.
I feel like you're trying to tell town that we were wrong at the end there. As it happens it didn't work out, but I think statistically our play was basically fine. Fonti might have been a better lynch.
I think you are coming at this from a position where you knew everything all along and it's harder for you to see that we literally could never have known enough to make the right choice.
I don't think you played much wrong in the end. I just hoped that RR's argument would succeed because that would have made fo an exciting endgame.
Town went wrong early on mostly. The Awaclus lynch was terrible. Some PRs made questionable choices (RR did not motivate D1; Ichi did not shoot N1 (I'm in the camp "vigs should shoot N1"); Seprix did not jailkeep N2). After that, town was already in a bad spot.
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Also they were not even supposed to know my identity.
Well yes, your role was designed around you not claiming your identity. That Deflecting and Redirecting should help you move kills away from you. Then you could always end up having a wagon accidentally. And in order for that not to happen, you need to be townie (i.e. out scum), which further weakens scum.
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Everything you're saying is right, faust. But I still don't think you can conclude that town played incorrectly at the end. What little control we had only really existed for us to decide our fate.
Yes we could have tried to lynch silver. I maintain that in 99 out of 100 setups that would have been the wrong thing to do. It's a very intricate situation that led to that being the right thing, and relied on the existence of a role like silver's, which I've never seen before.
I feel like you're trying to tell town that we were wrong at the end there. As it happens it didn't work out, but I think statistically our play was basically fine. Fonti might have been a better lynch.
I think you are coming at this from a position where you knew everything all along and it's harder for you to see that we literally could never have known enough to make the right choice.
I don't think you played much wrong in the end. I just hoped that RR's argument would succeed because that would have made fo an exciting endgame.
Town went wrong early on mostly. The Awaclus lynch was terrible. Some PRs made questionable choices (RR did not motivate D1; Ichi did not shoot N1 (I'm in the camp "vigs should shoot N1"); Seprix did not jailkeep N2). After that, town was already in a bad spot.
Fair enough. :)
Yeah as I said before I agree that town lost in the early game.
I THINK this might be my first town loss? Not sure, would have to check that. Interesting. WW has ended up saving so many town games that looked hopeless.
I've still never been lynched.
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Also they were not even supposed to know my identity.
Well yes, your role was designed around you not claiming your identity. That Deflecting and Redirecting should help you move kills away from you. Then you could always end up having a wagon accidentally. And in order for that not to happen, you need to be townie (i.e. out scum), which further weakens scum.
Ah, really? I might have just claimed anyway, though-- or done some sort of nefarious as "I am one of X, Y, and Z." Because I really thought that I was in an untouchable position in terms of my ability to blackmail, and if they have to do what I say anyway, why not let them know who I am? That makes it a lot easier to avoid those annoying wagons.
I would certainly have claimed had they threatened to otherwise close the QT, which I would probably do as mafia.
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Well, back to work.
Well played silver and fonti.
Also well played WW. That was a ridiculously convincing scum game.
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I was extremely disappointed that Witherweaver lynched me
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I mean, my analysis was correct (mostly): town could not win lynching me. And would you know it, only one town voted me. 3 scum (partner, survivor, and sk) were the ones who killed me.
The part I lied about was the knowledge of the survivor. Lynching fontisian was an instant win for mafia because the 3-2 situation did not exist. It was always 2-2-survivor.
But still, even with that. No lynching. Some of silverspawn's final posts had me wondering "what team are you really on?" But I kept quiet about him being survivor. Right play? Maybe.
@silverspawn: did you make an actual decision to win with the SK or did you think you could still win with scum? And why on earth redirect haddock and not font?
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Moriarty has to power to choose whichever scumteam is winning and tell then about the other scumteam AND get the losing scumteam to keep losing by still shooting town. He also gets to coordinate the two team's nightkills amd can appear towny very easily by "bussing" when actually this does not hurt his wincon (see: the fabricated iguana scumslip). His existence makes a scum win and a moriarty win highly probable. Not to mention that he is basically immune to NK. He nearly effectively has control of a 6-person scumteam with two kills, and town just doesn't stand a chance to that.
fontisian was never forced to out herself to silver. Scum had it harder, but they could have banned silver from their QT, which they didn't. The mafia team made a big mistake in trusting silver too much, and that is why they lost. They could have easily lynched silver, but they didn't. They could also have nightkilled him if they tried hard enough. Moriarty was a boost to the SK and a nerf for the mafia mostly.
me in the scum qt:
yeah, one thing we can trust moriarty in (I mean, especially knowing that it is silverspawn) is that he will work toward his win con. If he thinks winning with scum is the best way to accomplish that, his evil mastermind ideas will work toward that end.
But we are in the classic survivor scenario that town is usually put in. Kill the survivor even though he might be useful to you, or let him live and risk being betrayed. I vote that we let moriarty live, and work for us....for now at least.
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@silverspawn: did you make an actual decision to win with the SK or did you think you could still win with scum?
Well, both. I decided to try to win with the SK early on, but if she had died unexpectedly, sure I would've won with scum. In the end, the SK thing seemed easily possible, so I went with that.
And why on earth redirect haddock and not font?
Er... why would I redirect font?
I chose haddock for the vague possibility that he's a doctor or vig.
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How can the mafia team lynch me? I have all of their identities. And it's not like a prisoners dilemma where doing it loses my ability to blackmail; I can sell them out piece by piece if I want to.
yeah, I do not like giving any non-mafia access to the mafia qt. We were forced to trust silverspawn because of the design of the game. He should have had some sort of restriction where if he gives off any knowledge learned from posting in the scum qt or he commits suicide or something.
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@silverspawn: did you make an actual decision to win with the SK or did you think you could still win with scum?
Well, both. I decided to try to win with the SK early on, but if she had died unexpectedly, sure I would've won with scum. In the end, the SK thing seemed easily possible, so I went with that.
And why on earth redirect haddock and not font?
Er... why would I redirect font?
I chose haddock for the vague possibility that he's a doctor or vig.
ok, good enough. you would redirect font and win the game with scum. after my lynch you still had a decision on whether you won with font or with mafia. redirect font onto town, ww kills town, you win with mafia. direct font onto WW, and you win with font.
being able to reveal scum to the SK in the qt I think is also outrageous. Like, huge design flaw.
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/m22
Teproc is the 1-Shot Lightning Rod / 1-Shot Nexus
2.7 is the watcher/doctor.
gkrieg is the Even night (Ninja Busdriver)
Hydrad is the Goon
like, this post in the SK neighborhood qt is just cheap. I think it is basically on the same level of how reinoe outed scum to everyone in Lost Mafia. Granted, SK is going to keep scum alive for longer period of time because she wins in the situation like we had at the end of the game, I just think the game is flawed when information like this can be handed out to non-mafia.
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I think that instead of voting to exclude the survivor, mafia should have been given the choice to include the survivor. same with SK.
Sure, we could ban silverspawn, but HE ALREADY KNEW WHO WE WERE. like, at that point it is too late. Yeah, we should have read and not outed all of our roles, but roles weren't so important. You shouldn't have to win with your role. You should win with your play in the thread.
I think having the option to vote (as a team) to include the survivor, would have been a much better mechanic
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Still, I enjoyed the game a lot. I basically killed myself because of my inactivity through most of the game. That was my fault. So really I have nothing to complain about. I am still baffled as to how town decides to lynch regular mafia over a SK though. Just baffled. I honestly don't know how any of them came to that decision.
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Still, I enjoyed the game a lot. I basically killed myself because of my inactivity through most of the game. That was my fault. So really I have nothing to complain about. I am still baffled as to how town decides to lynch regular mafia over a SK though. Just baffled. I honestly don't know how any of them came to that decision.
Well only one actually did come to that decision.
Lynching SK was still a town loss though thanks to the existence of silver.
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Sigh. Alright. I'm the serial killer. I shot Jan, seprix, ichi and Regi. I went for e today because I investigated him, know he's mafia, and have reason to believe they're close to over run.
Like, are you serious. This just makes me furious. THE SK SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO KNOW WHO SCUM IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, I mean, font's whole case thing, then "oh, btw, I investigated e"
right
Town trusted font's "investigation" (which was accurate) but it was really silverspawn playing the system by giving away information on who scum was to fontisian. WITHOUT THAT "INVESTIGATION" we lynch fontisian no problem.
I am not faulting silverspawn in any way for all of this. I think he is the MVP, not font. He convinced town with his bad numbers. He convinced WW to vote against his partner for the SK+survivor win. But he had way more information than he should have. And that is a design flaw.
irks
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Still, I enjoyed the game a lot. I basically killed myself because of my inactivity through most of the game. That was my fault. So really I have nothing to complain about. I am still baffled as to how town decides to lynch regular mafia over a SK though. Just baffled. I honestly don't know how any of them came to that decision.
Well only one actually did come to that decision.
Lynching SK was still a town loss though thanks to the existence of silver.
yes. But in a world without silverspawn being scum. With him being regular town like the fake numbers both silverspawn and I advocated, lynching SK at least would have given town a chance. It would have taken it to lylo. I think town (in their awful situation) should have seen that that was their best option. It was a false situation, but it would have been the best one.
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like, throw in an addendum like "revealing any information as to the identity of any scum or town as revealed by the mod or through a qt results in an immediate loss" for the survivor's wincon. He doesn't need to be mod-killed or anything, but he needs something to prevent him from sharing that information
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like, throw in an addendum like "revealing any information as to the identity of any scum or town as revealed by the mod or through a qt results in an immediate loss" for the survivor's wincon. He doesn't need to be mod-killed or anything, but he needs something to prevent him from sharing that information
I don't see what the big trouble is when the SK knows who the mafia is. Adding poting restrictions is certainly infinitely worse. Like, what does this even mean? Should I punish him if he votes for someone he knows is scum. What if he says "Because he's scum", Awaclus-style? This is just broken.
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posting restrictions never work, but I can see e's perspective.
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like, throw in an addendum like "revealing any information as to the identity of any scum or town as revealed by the mod or through a qt results in an immediate loss" for the survivor's wincon. He doesn't need to be mod-killed or anything, but he needs something to prevent him from sharing that information
I don't see what the big trouble is when the SK knows who the mafia is. Adding poting restrictions is certainly infinitely worse. Like, what does this even mean? Should I punish him if he votes for someone he knows is scum. What if he says "Because he's scum", Awaclus-style? This is just broken.
yeah, I don't know how it should work. I just think it doesn't work how it was implemented.
I think the one change to give scum and SK the option to include the survivor in their QT would have solved that problem. Because then it is mafia giving the survivor the information. I mean, you basically sent silverspawn a PM saying "here is the list of scum and their qt. Here is the SK and her QT. Everyone else is town. Figure out how to win."
No one should have full information about the setup. Even a survivor. And that is what silverspawn had. Sure, he didn't know the PRs and all, but he knew everything else.
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I don't know about this game.
I was fairly certain that Silver and E were not town d1, but there was no chance to get either of them lynched in the history of ever.
Silver being able to coordinate with 5 other non town on d1 made it 6 vs 10.
And you will almost never get all town to agree on something d1 without having a hard case (and my reasoning for scumreading e was solid because what i called him out on was real, people just didn't care to see it).
Sure town got unlucky with losing that many prs early on, but normally town should have around 50-60% win chance in a game like this. 25% scum and 10-15% SK .. silver wins with either which gives him the easiest easymode. That is balance in a way that i am used to normally at least.
Silvers role was fun on paper but maybe not balanced when given to a player that apparently noone wants to lynch even when they do not play towny.
A good town vig would have changed the game i guess. (not that he was bad, he just died n1 which is the worst outcome).
A good hero shot on a deep wolf or silver and town is likely to win the game.
Funny enough i actually reread liopoils d1 half was through d2 and thought to myself "why did you ever scumread that guy", that is when i randomly changed my read d2. I did the same with e and just thought "yeah that guy is just scum".
Anyways gg. not sure who played well this game, all the scum that died died to silver and fonti having perfect information. but i would not say that they played execptionally well.
It was well orchestrated which is what moriarty would have done. the role was fitting well with the character, we just had a lack of sherlock holmes this game. :D
rr and liopoil projected town well (haddock too, i think). ww and teproc before were really hard deep cover wolves. esp ww put a lot of legwork in his play to be towny. sadly no chance if the sk knows who you are anyway.
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but normally town should have around 50-60% win chance in a game like this. 25% scum and 10-15% SK
err, what? We balance games to have equal win % for all factions. 33% for town, 33% for mafia, 33% for the SK, and even 33% for me.
Why would you ever have over 50% for one faction? :o
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I think the one change to give scum and SK the option to include the survivor in their QT would have solved that problem. Because then it is mafia giving the survivor the information. I mean, you basically sent silverspawn a PM saying "here is the list of scum and their qt. Here is the SK and her QT. Everyone else is town. Figure out how to win."
from the scum qt :
"A player that is not part of your faction is able to read and post in this QT, under the pseudonym "Moriarty". If the majority of living mafia members decides to deny Moriarty access to your QT, another QT will be created in which only your faction can post and read. This decision is irreversible once made, and you will no longer be able to post here."
you had the chance .. he just knew your identities at the point which means you can never lynch him or he might out you.
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I feel a little better. Lynching ss would've been much better, lynching WW might've not been suicide. But bad stuff all around.
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but normally town should have around 50-60% win chance in a game like this. 25% scum and 10-15% SK
err, what? We balance games to have equal win % for all factions. 33% for town, 33% for mafia, 33% for the SK, and even 33% for me.
Why would you ever have over 50% for one faction? :o
i think 33% winchance for the sk is a bit much normally. winning as sk is hard because if someone gets on your track early on you just lose unless you outplay them (which is not easy).
You balance games for your community anyway. better (town-)players need a game that is way higher stacked against town, while bad players need more misslynches. That is why there are around 10 misslynches for every champs game and town still can't win 90% of the time.
i think towns win chances this game were way lower than 33% because of your role silver. unless you or the sk die early on town has close to no chance of winning just because the numbers are a big problem.
teproc being redchecked d2 and no one recognizing it was kinda funny. reggies interaction with seprix just looked way more like a green on seprix than a red on teproc (they both wanted to kill teproc which was the biggest hint on him being scum after both of them died n2).
I don't want to sound ungrateful, the game was fun. i was a bit salty when i heard about the numbers the first time, because I think it was stacked against town, but in the end all that matters is that I (or maybe we) had a good time.
GGWP. would play again.
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I think ww had the best game.
He was fairly townread all through the game and noone that didn't have perfect information wanted to kill him.
everything else on the last day played out well because of the amount of information people had. they played it off well, but the game mechanics made it easy.
I am unsure on how silver could have lost the game. Unless he is a polarized player that can't project town for his live. he cant die during the day because he has 5 people on his side that will not dare to actually lynch him (or he just outs them all) and during the night he is bulletproof so only the sk could ever dare to pop him (he would know if mafia target him in the night since they share a chat).
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I'm not saying the game was balanced. I'm saying that 33/33/33 (or 50/50) is the goal-- that we have on this site. Balance on this site, as I understand it, means equal win% for all factions. Otherwise, I would consider it unbalanced.
You balance games for your community anyway. better (town-)players need a game that is way higher stacked against town, while bad players need more misslynches. That is why there are around 10 misslynches for every champs game and town still can't win 90% of the time.
Ahm, what? So are you saying town plays worse on this site than on other sites? Or better? And that changes the balance significantly?
I doubt that skill has more than a negligible effect on balance. The champion site plays setups that could easily be hosted here. I actually think if the skill is higher, scum will be harder to track down.
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@silverspawn: did you make an actual decision to win with the SK or did you think you could still win with scum?
Well, both. I decided to try to win with the SK early on, but if she had died unexpectedly, sure I would've won with scum. In the end, the SK thing seemed easily possible, so I went with that.
And why on earth redirect haddock and not font?
Er... why would I redirect font?
I chose haddock for the vague possibility that he's a doctor or vig.
Can someone remind me who it was that swore up and down on all things sacred that if they were ever to roll Survivor, they would 100% always play to win with town and no one else?
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Can someone remind me who it was that swore up and down on all things sacred that if they were ever to roll Survivor, they would 100% always play to win with town and no one else?
I didn't have the choice to play with town.
You win when you are still alive at the end of the game, and the Town has not won.
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And I was not a survivor, either. Faust has named my role "Consultant Criminal."
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You balance games for your community anyway. better (town-)players need a game that is way higher stacked against town, while bad players need more misslynches. That is why there are around 10 misslynches for every champs game and town still can't win 90% of the time.
Ahm, what? So are you saying town plays worse on this site than on other sites? Or better? And that changes the balance significantly?
I do not know how town plays on this site.
I am saying in the champs game town gets a lot of misslynches because people don't know each other and have no meta and nothing so misslynches are more likely to happen.
I would not dare to judge the quality of the people playing on this site by 1 game.
I am saying that in general when the balance is nudging too much towards town because people play town too well the games gets balanced more into a scum direction either by reducing towns pr power or the number of misslynches they have.
Balance always depends on the community because you cannot have a 50/50 balance with the same setup across all communities. It just does not work that way.
I can bet you that the champs game setup played on here would result in way more town victories than it did in this years champ series.
Look at the number of free misslynches scum ahd in our game.
Pikachamp not claiming (which would result in him never getting lynched and scum needing to nightkill him), 2-3 selfvoted as town and basically refused to play the game.
And 2-3 other people played really low effort.
Sure you have those low effort people on every site, but you know their meta and have more infos on them.
Selfvoting and giving up as town is something i have not seen before in any game i played. At least not in a serious matter without a bigger play surrounding it.
And a pr being main wagon for 80% of the day not claiming for no reason .. also only something a really new palyer would do and unlikely to happen.
If just half of those people play the game then town is almost always winning that setup. Town has 1 misslynch more than in most games i have played before, i think.
(compared to this game 16 players with 6 scum and quite a lot of scum prs against 17 players 4 scum and the whole game being light on prs)
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silver redirects Haddock onto liopoil (success)
silver deflects form fontisian to RR (success)
So was this just a mistake?
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People way overestimated my role after I died. Basically the only information I gained was that several roles were redirected to one person night1. I had no clue who that person was. I never got to the point of having a "green" out "red" on someone.
I think the only thing I would change about this setup is the Lightning rod/watcher thing. I really like ss's role and would be interested to see it again.
Also: Jan, fontisian, and melisandre should totally play more games on f.ds. They were really fun to play with!
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silver redirects Haddock onto liopoil (success)
silver deflects form fontisian to RR (success)
So was this just a mistake?
I guess not. But if Font shot town Haddock or Lio we'd just win. So why?
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Oh, Font and SS had a QT.
Well, this was ridiculous.
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silver redirects Haddock onto liopoil (success)
silver deflects form fontisian to RR (success)
So was this just a mistake?
How would it be a mistake? Neither of those things would have affected targets in any way.
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silver redirects Haddock onto liopoil (success)
silver deflects form fontisian to RR (success)
So was this just a mistake?
How would it be a mistake? Neither of those things would have affected targets in any way.
I meant Silver submitting incorrect actions.
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I don't follow...
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I didn't know he could coordinate with the SK. Seemed a slight possibility when Font mentioned alternate win con, but I didn't really consider it.
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Why is Silverspawn scum in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
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Why is Silverspawn scum in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Lately e as well. Which is annoying because I still can't read him. At least not early on. The recent ones have been like, right, OK, by like the last day I know e is scum by PoE but not via any other method. I went back and forth on him D1 this game, but realistically I cannot rely on my e reads. I think I just always find him scummy, which isn't helpful.
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Yes, we have to just auto lynch SS and e next time around. ;D
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I can't remember how I played in this game, but it was probably horribly. I feel happy my 'gut read' on Teproc/WW was right, but it probably wasn't a legitimate read but pure chance.
In other news, I was convinced ADK was scum when I died, because I did my PR thing on him and he did not respond at all to it. But then he died and he was town.
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I can't remember how I played in this game, but it was probably horribly. I feel happy my 'gut read' on Teproc/WW was right, but it probably wasn't a legitimate read but pure chance.
In other news, I was convinced ADK was scum when I died, because I did my PR thing on him and he did not respond at all to it. But then he died and he was town.
Your day play seemed fine to me. People just need to get used to your meta - admittedly it's a slightly scummy-looking meta. As I said before, it served my Fruit Ninja agenda not to townread you for it at first in this game but once Fruit Ninja ended I was happy to say that your play there and here was similar and towny.
You got redirected I think? It wasn't ADK you ended up hitting but Teproc.
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I feel a little better. Lynching ss would've been much better, lynching WW might've not been suicide. But bad stuff all around.
Lynching WW would have had an identical outcome I think? Lynching fonti would have felt better at first but we still would have lost eventually.
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I can't remember how I played in this game, but it was probably horribly. I feel happy my 'gut read' on Teproc/WW was right, but it probably wasn't a legitimate read but pure chance.
In other news, I was convinced ADK was scum when I died, because I did my PR thing on him and he did not respond at all to it. But then he died and he was town.
Your day play seemed fine to me. People just need to get used to your meta - admittedly it's a slightly scummy-looking meta. As I said before, it served my Fruit Ninja agenda not to townread you for it at first in this game but once Fruit Ninja ended I was happy to say that your play there and here was similar and towny.
You got redirected I think? It wasn't ADK you ended up hitting but Teproc.
I did the exact same thing, which I think is why people thought I cop-checked Seprix. I couldn't say D1 "Seprix's play here is similar to that in Fruit Ninja where he's town, so I think he's town here" but I could do that once Fruit Ninja was done.
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Holy cow, reading the SS and Mafia QT in the beginning is so chilling. SS just flat out embraces Moriarty's role, and threatens to bring down all of the Mafia if they do not cooperate. Wow, this is like a novel or something.
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Why is Silverspawn scum in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
I mean, I am the last person who wants that! I used to have a really big town streak after my first 2 or so mafia games, now I had a pretty unlikely mafia streak. I just hope I roll town in the championship finals.
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I can bet you that the champs game setup played on here would result in way more town victories than it did in this years champ series.
Ah, I don't know. Last year's setup was 10-3 with one cop as the only PR I believe. That seems similar to what we do.
Look at the number of free misslynches scum ahd in our game.
Pikachamp not claiming (which would result in him never getting lynched and scum needing to nightkill him), 2-3 selfvoted as town and basically refused to play the game.
And 2-3 other people played really low effort
Well. That's very true. But wasn't our game special that way? I mean special as in a particularly fascinating trainwreck. I hope it's not representative of the other championship games.
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I feel a little better. Lynching ss would've been much better, lynching WW might've not been suicide. But bad stuff all around.
Lynching WW would have had an identical outcome I think? Lynching fonti would have felt better at first but we still would have lost eventually.
The doctor could've had skills
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I can bet you that the champs game setup played on here would result in way more town victories than it did in this years champ series.
Ah, I don't know. Last year's setup was 10-3 with one cop as the only PR I believe. That seems similar to what we do.
Look at the number of free misslynches scum ahd in our game.
Pikachamp not claiming (which would result in him never getting lynched and scum needing to nightkill him), 2-3 selfvoted as town and basically refused to play the game.
And 2-3 other people played really low effort
Well. That's very true. But wasn't our game special that way? I mean special as in a particularly fascinating trainwreck. I hope it's not representative of the other championship games.
Yes you are a special snowflake and not a t all simmilar to the other snowflakes in shape or form. Some of the games were similar.
G8 was a town sweep, mostly because it was just a good game with good players.
Having ~2 of those weak town players who don't play and just crash and burn happened in almost all the games, i think.
Or just really bad town vigs who shoot obv towns because they don't have a grip on the game at all. (that happened in 1 or 2 games)
Last years setup was better in every way or form in my opinion. But the numbers were better for sure.
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Why is Silverspawn scum in EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Because he was scum in Futuramafia.
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Last years setup was better in every way or form in my opinion. But the numbers were better for sure.
Really? The setup with just one cop was better? I thought that was way worse.
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Holy cow, reading the SS and Mafia QT in the beginning is so chilling. SS just flat out embraces Moriarty's role, and threatens to bring down all of the Mafia if they do not cooperate. Wow, this is like a novel or something.
I loved it. The role captured the flavor pretty well there.
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So the setup was designed around the Moriarty role. I really like this kind of win condition, and wanted to explore it more after I had it in Buffy (with Ichi's role) and it didn't really do anything. Having an evil mastermind just seemed like the thing to do for this flavor.
Balance is iffy. I still wouldn't change to much. Maybe limit access to the mafia somehow, like Moriarty can only communicate with one of them or something like that. Having him have a Neighborhood with 1 confirmed mafia and the SK might make it harder.
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I loved the setup. I think the only problem was that it basically turned into 2 v 4 v 10. SK + Moriarty was a team that had knowledge of the 4 team, and was able to talk to them and see what actions they were taking at night. I think it would've been harder than you think to kick Moriarty out of the scum QT because we had no way of talking about it without him seeing us talk about it.
I also think that having day chat helped them out tremendously. I mean I kinda knew that ss was talking to the SK, and I wanted to kick him out of the QT the night after I died, but obviously didn't have the chance.
I also think what hurt us the most was having two replacements. That makes it hard on any faction to win. I mean you really have to show that you blindly trust someone, which is really tough to do.
So I personally didn't like the Moriarty role, because I think it would've been really hard to get him out of the QT. Maybe it would've been better if we didn't know that it was ss, because then we could've easily built a case on him, not knowing that it was Moriarty. I just don't like being mafia when someone who is not of your faction knows who you are. That just kinda sucks.
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I was extremely disappointed that Witherweaver lynched me
It seemed safer. I went through it in my QT and it seemed we'd win either way. But if I side with you and you get lynched, we're both exposed. By the time I had finished rereads, it didn't look like Font would happen.
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I loved the setup. I think the only problem was that it basically turned into 2 v 4 v 10. SK + Moriarty was a team that had knowledge of the 4 team, and was able to talk to them and see what actions they were taking at night. I think it would've been harder than you think to kick Moriarty out of the scum QT because we had no way of talking about it without him seeing us talk about it.
I also think that having day chat helped them out tremendously. I mean I kinda knew that ss was talking to the SK, and I wanted to kick him out of the QT the night after I died, but obviously didn't have the chance.
I also think what hurt us the most was having two replacements. That makes it hard on any faction to win. I mean you really have to show that you blindly trust someone, which is really tough to do.
So I personally didn't like the Moriarty role, because I think it would've been really hard to get him out of the QT. Maybe it would've been better if we didn't know that it was ss, because then we could've easily built a case on him, not knowing that it was Moriarty. I just don't like being mafia when someone who is not of your faction knows who you are. That just kinda sucks.
I think the mistake was having him in the QT in the first place.
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I loved the setup. I think the only problem was that it basically turned into 2 v 4 v 10. SK + Moriarty was a team that had knowledge of the 4 team, and was able to talk to them and see what actions they were taking at night. I think it would've been harder than you think to kick Moriarty out of the scum QT because we had no way of talking about it without him seeing us talk about it.
I also think that having day chat helped them out tremendously. I mean I kinda knew that ss was talking to the SK, and I wanted to kick him out of the QT the night after I died, but obviously didn't have the chance.
I also think what hurt us the most was having two replacements. That makes it hard on any faction to win. I mean you really have to show that you blindly trust someone, which is really tough to do.
So I personally didn't like the Moriarty role, because I think it would've been really hard to get him out of the QT. Maybe it would've been better if we didn't know that it was ss, because then we could've easily built a case on him, not knowing that it was Moriarty. I just don't like being mafia when someone who is not of your faction knows who you are. That just kinda sucks.
I think the mistake was having him in the QT in the first place.
I think it would've been hard to vote him out then as well.
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It was kind of broken from the beginning. And people posted as their own name at first (I think).
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It was kind of broken from the beginning. And people posted as their own name at first (I think).
Well we didn't have a choice who we posted as. If we had the option to post under a pseudonym and vote him out and then post by our real names, I totally would've taken that route.
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Last years setup was better in every way or form in my opinion. But the numbers were better for sure.
Really? The setup with just one cop was better? I thought that was way worse.
I think the more vanilla the setup and the less mechanics are in it the more you depend on reading people, which should be the essence of champ games to me.
being able to read and exploit mechanics is a trait as well, but the more vanilla the setup the better it is to actually compare people, i think. more prs and more mechanics are just crutches. fun to play with but for me a champs game should not have a lot of roles and no variation in setup.
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But the Cop setup doesn't even have a higher skill factor, I don't think. PRs are just as imporant, the difference is that it that the PR part is more luck based.
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I think the cop setup is just the worst thing you can have no with either motivation.
Just have a vanilla game. No PRs, just reads.
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The win cons were confusing, too. Is it possible for Moriarty and Mafia to win together?
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I would not dare to judge the quality of the people playing on this site by 1 game.
I would!
8/10, would play here again.
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The win cons were confusing, too. Is it possible for Moriarty and Mafia to win together?
Yes. The way the game played out, Moriarty got to choose if he wanted mafia or the SK to win. He wins either way. I can't fault him for choosing sk as much as I would have preferred him choosing mafia
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I would not dare to judge the quality of the people playing on this site by 1 game.
I would!
8/10, would play here again.
You should sign up for this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15223.0) then.
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I agree with pretty much everything e said. This setup would be balanced if you replaced moriarty with a VT, and gave the SK some more powers. With moriarty I can't see town winning mire than 1/5th of the time.
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I do think I had an overly easy time as the SK, but I also believe SK wins should be much harder than winning as any other faction. /shrug
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Haha, I just realized, Faust built a Reinoe into the setup. Guess he wanted to account for it.
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Jan, by the way, like nailed almost all the scum early on.
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I think I have a new rule, which I really ought to have followed from when I started playing mafia: I won't play in games where it isn't common knowledge what all of the wincons are and how many players will have each wincon. These sorts of surprises are just never pleasant.
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Still missing mvp!
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This was a fun game
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Still missing mvp!
Oh yeah.
fontisian is MVP!
Sorry, silverspawn!
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No Problem.