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[yuma]

@2.7: I think it's more likely that yuma is scum, actually. In a two man scumteam I'd fight hard for my partner if he scumslipped.

How can you say this w/o knowing faust's alignment... I really didnt' want to vote for you arch. Because you are constantly mislynched... but is these sort of things that sometimes force my hand. Seriously... do you see that these sort of things make you look scummy? Or do you think that we are just a bunch of dummies who keep mislynching you. Someone is to blame, I thought that it might have just been f.ds getting you wrong, but now I am thinking that a lot of the blame falls on you for being a scummy player when town, you have to take some responsibility for that... so I guess I won't vote for you, but maybe you are scum this time?

[yuma]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

In all honesty when I saw this I thought it was a language mistake. Faust is from Germany yes? His grammar is generally pretty good (as is almost all of our non-native-English speaking players) but sometimes makes mistakes. I thought this was one of them which basically meant to be said "isn't going to be killed" which is probably true as it is the whole premise for why we had the doc claim.

Ouch, don't like this at all. I mean if faust had said it was a language mistake, that would be one thing. But I've generally thought him grammar is perfect, and would not have chalked it up to language myself. If he had proposed this explanation I might have said okay. This actually does rub me as scum defending scum buddy. Well I know that's getting ahead of myself x a billion. But I don't think this was a grammar mistake, and don't like yuma covering for faust in this way prior to faust explaining himself.

I wasn't covering up for faust. I was explaining how I read it the first go around in response to voltaire's question of Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?" I felt that faust's explanation was perfectly adequate for my purposes and have already stated this...

I don't believe in scum slips... let me pull up a quote to remind all of you.

I told you so. I am going to PM myself the link to this post so that I can quote it from here on out when someone tries to convince me that something was a "slip." Because they aren't.

And now we have a dead townie, a dead cop, and ashersky is dead (probably a townie). And voltgloss's flip did nothing for us. How can I tell? Because right now no one is talking about who was where or volt's wagon or who had opinions about volt's wagon. Why? Because there isn't anything to talk about. That situation is the same as theory--a person is going to react to it exactly the same as town or as mafia, thus it isn't useful for scum hunting. Anything you try to get out of it is a major stretch.

Mostly I am extremely frustrated. My reads are exactly the same as they were before volt's <i>slip</b>. Meaning... probably not very good. I have spoken in the past about how much I rely on that day1 flip to solidify my reads and how much better they are after the context of a flip. And right now, I don't have that. So. Thanks. Good job town.

So yeah, I dont' like the case on faust that much.

I am really, really surprised that I am the only player here who thinks it is more likely that both sudgy and faust are town. No one else thinks that? Maybe I am completely off... but what happened to the idea that the first wagons that forms is rarely on a mafia player (I don't count the wagon on robz... that thing was completely RVS) and the next two wagons have been on sudgy and faust... I think it is very likely that both are town and all four mafia players are focusing all our energy on this area leaving them and everyone else for the most part getting very little light or examination. I am partially to blame, but I haven't had the time to compile a case like I normally would. Come Tuesday I can... but that is past deadline, so you will have to make due with what I can offer for now.

[sudgy]

Yuma, my main thing isn't the "slip", it's all the other stuff.

[Voltaire]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

[yuma]

Additional thought for the yuma/faust scumpairing:  Not only has yuma defended faust - and in an "explaining things for him" way that I find scummy (I think town!yuma would want faust to explain things himself) - but yuma has also made a standard scum defensive move:  trying to get another wagon going.  By which I mean the vote on Gveoniz, someone that hasn't really been considered yet.  That could very easily be scum!yuma hoping to distract us.

Or it could be town!yuma saying "hey let's actually look somewhere than this town v town fight" ... but that doesn't really seem like a good option for scum to suggest about me.

This reminds me of voltgloss in LoR2 where he suspected me and tried to get me lynched day1 and day2 because I think he knew I was onto him and feared me somewhat...

[yuma]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

wait I have something to run by you

[yuma]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

wait I have something to run by you

I was musing about something.

So we have a confirmed doc and two mafia teams. I was wondering if we can figure out a way to use the scum team's night kills to our advantage.

My thought was this.

What if voltaire gives out a list of say 4-5 players that he is 100% not going to protect during the night. That means that if mafia targets that player they don't have to worry about a doctor protection. yes this means a kill goes through, but it would go through on a player(s) that we are suspicious of as a town and that would have a high chance of being lynched the next day? That way we can kinda use the mafia NK as a semi-town Vig. Or else mafia will have to risk killing a player that might be protected by the doc?

[yuma]

Ultimately it should completely be voltaire's call on whether or not he does it (and to an extent he will be doing it if he posts any reads lists at all, but this would be make it a little more solidified and official) but thought that we could all discuss it to see if the plan has any merit at all?

[Archetype]

@2.7: I think it's more likely that yuma is scum, actually. In a two man scumteam I'd fight hard for my partner if he scumslipped.

How can you say this w/o knowing faust's alignment... I really didnt' want to vote for you arch. Because you are constantly mislynched... but is these sort of things that sometimes force my hand. Seriously... do you see that these sort of things make you look scummy? Or do you think that we are just a bunch of dummies who keep mislynching you. Someone is to blame, I thought that it might have just been f.ds getting you wrong, but now I am thinking that a lot of the blame falls on you for being a scummy player when town, you have to take some responsibility for that... so I guess I won't vote for you, but maybe you are scum this time?

The quote above was a hypothetical. If faust is scum, I think that you defending him like you did would be more likely a scum covering their partner.

I take almost all responsibility for me being mislynched so often. I am a scummy player. I don't think I've ever said I wasn't (not that you're saying I have). If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. They're your reads, man.

[yuma]

Yuma, my main thing isn't the "slip", it's all the other stuff.

I think I already talked about the other stuff as far as I can tell.

[yuma]

If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. They're your reads, man.

they are my reads, but my reads of you aren't very good.... see Pirates II as a great example.

[Archetype]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

wait I have something to run by you

I was musing about something.

So we have a confirmed doc and two mafia teams. I was wondering if we can figure out a way to use the scum team's night kills to our advantage.

My thought was this.

What if voltaire gives out a list of say 4-5 players that he is 100% not going to protect during the night. That means that if mafia targets that player they don't have to worry about a doctor protection. yes this means a kill goes through, but it would go through on a player(s) that we are suspicious of as a town and that would have a high chance of being lynched the next day? That way we can kinda use the mafia NK as a semi-town Vig. Or else mafia will have to risk killing a player that might be protected by the doc?

Not in favor of this. I've said it before, but scum will kill the Doctor. That's a player who's guaranteed to not be protected. Sure they could collide the opposite scumteam, but if I were scum I'd be willing to take the risk. And if the players were divided into Town to be protected/Town to not be protected I'd risk shooting into the "To be protected" (well, if the group is large enough) because there is likely a reason (read: strong player) that they'd be potentially protected.

I think we're being a little too optimistic about the scumteams helping us kill themselves.

[Robz888]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

wait I have something to run by you

I was musing about something.

So we have a confirmed doc and two mafia teams. I was wondering if we can figure out a way to use the scum team's night kills to our advantage.

My thought was this.

What if voltaire gives out a list of say 4-5 players that he is 100% not going to protect during the night. That means that if mafia targets that player they don't have to worry about a doctor protection. yes this means a kill goes through, but it would go through on a player(s) that we are suspicious of as a town and that would have a high chance of being lynched the next day? That way we can kinda use the mafia NK as a semi-town Vig. Or else mafia will have to risk killing a player that might be protected by the doc?

Not in favor of this. I've said it before, but scum will kill the Doctor. That's a player who's guaranteed to not be protected. Sure they could collide the opposite scumteam, but if I were scum I'd be willing to take the risk. And if the players were divided into Town to be protected/Town to not be protected I'd risk shooting into the "To be protected" (well, if the group is large enough) because there is likely a reason (read: strong player) that they'd be potentially protected.

I think we're being a little too optimistic about the scumteams helping us kill themselves.

Weird, weird post. Sounds like you are one of the scum teams trying to give the other team advice.

[yuma]

I'm leaving now. Let the record show that I currently lean towards thinking both sudgy and faust are town (agree with yuma). Make of that what you will.

wait I have something to run by you

I was musing about something.

So we have a confirmed doc and two mafia teams. I was wondering if we can figure out a way to use the scum team's night kills to our advantage.

My thought was this.

What if voltaire gives out a list of say 4-5 players that he is 100% not going to protect during the night. That means that if mafia targets that player they don't have to worry about a doctor protection. yes this means a kill goes through, but it would go through on a player(s) that we are suspicious of as a town and that would have a high chance of being lynched the next day? That way we can kinda use the mafia NK as a semi-town Vig. Or else mafia will have to risk killing a player that might be protected by the doc?

Not in favor of this. I've said it before, but scum will kill the Doctor. That's a player who's guaranteed to not be protected. Sure they could collide the opposite scumteam, but if I were scum I'd be willing to take the risk. And if the players were divided into Town to be protected/Town to not be protected I'd risk shooting into the "To be protected" (well, if the group is large enough) because there is likely a reason (read: strong player) that they'd be potentially protected.

I think we're being a little too optimistic about the scumteams helping us kill themselves.

Weird, weird post. Sounds like you are one of the scum teams trying to give the other team advice.

I am... Hey Ice Mafia shoot Robz or Voltgloss during Night1 ok?

Or... maybe I am trying to find a way to optimize this setup toward town.

[liopoil]

I'm back again... but not for all that long and I will only have phone access tomorrow. I should have popped in earlier today.

So, I am getting a little convinced that faust's do not kill thing could be a scumtell. It clearly was not a language mistake, because if it was faust would have said as such. Instead, his excuse is that he was actually talking to scum. This seems less plausible to me. But still, I am less confident because it doesn't seem like something scum is likely to accidentally say and in prior experiences scumhunting on scumslips has not gone well.

Idea about voltaire claiming some people who he will not target has potential actually. It is actually possible that it increases the chance that there are fewer than 2 deaths tonight (because since scum value shooting each other more than having their kill go through they may take a risk of both shooting the same player to kill scum). So I think I support this plan. It may even make it worth it for the doctor to claim... wow this setup is way more complicated than it looks.

Reads off the top of my head, town to scum:

liopoil/voltaire: duh
ashersky: meta-based read, which is actually a good way to read ash I think.
E: strong contributions for his first game.
sudgy: explained elsewhere
voltgloss
eevee
Jimmmmm
yuma
gveoniz
robz: odd reaction to his wagon... didn't care enough.
archetype: weird stance on doctor claiming, lurking (though I'm not one to talk), sort of asking yuma to vote for him.
faust: explained elsewhere

the five in the middle are just gut.

Vote: faust. I'm sure enough that he is my preferred lynch now. And I don't have see why putting him at L-1 is a bad thing. However, reminder, This is L-1. Do not hammer without stating intent prior and giving everyone a chance to weigh in if possible.

[liopoil]

oh, I guess people are putting their reads in popsquiz format. I'll do that:

preferred lynch: faust
secondary lynch tier: archetype, robz
Might lynch: gveoniz, yuma, jimmmm, eevee, voltgloss
Don't want to lynch: sudgy, E, ashersky
Won't lynch: liopoil, voltaire

[yuma]

hmmm... hmmm... (there isn't a need to state intent to hammer lio. None at all...)

hammer time. faust is getting lynched anyways, that is pretty obvious. Maybe I am completely wrong about faust. I hate the idea of a player getting lynched two days in a row. But sometimes that is just the way it is.

But he is going to get lynched today. I don't really like it, but that's how it goes, so why prolong the inevitable....

vote: faust

Now at least day2 will be going when I am around a bit more (note... this isn't why I am doing this, but is certainly a small, but very selfish part.

[yuma]

t-minus about 1 minute until liopoil erupts into a furious rage...

[liopoil]

hmmm. I can get that it seems inevitable that he would be lynched anyway... but what's the benefit of it happening now? you say that the timing of D2 is just a small part... what's the rest?

[liopoil]

hmmm. I can get that it seems inevitable that he would be lynched anyway... but what's the benefit of it happening now? you say that the timing of D2 is just a small part... what's the rest?

also, not-furious-rage because well I did want him lynched anyway. But if I was faust (regardless of his alignment), I would be angry. Still, this is not my preferred method.

I guess that's why putting people at L-1 is dangerous.

[2.71828.....]

Our lynch deadline is Monday night, isn't it?

Yes. I will be hard V/LA from late this afternoon to sometime Sunday. No lynching anyone while I am gone unless someone claims scum. We'll still have time to put a lynch through early Monday after I'm back.

Robz, it's a bit unclear - did you actually re-read scum!sudgy in LOTR1, or are you just going off memory?

[2.71828.....]

I guess some people forgot to read that

[2.71828.....]

Or don't like the Doctor

[liopoil]

Our lynch deadline is Monday night, isn't it?

Yes. I will be hard V/LA from late this afternoon to sometime Sunday. No lynching anyone while I am gone unless someone claims scum. We'll still have time to put a lynch through early Monday after I'm back.

Robz, it's a bit unclear - did you actually re-read scum!sudgy in LOTR1, or are you just going off memory?

Oh wow... I missed that. (though I was not suggesting we should lynch him now of course) Yuma, explanation?

[2.71828.....]

As announced in the V/LA thread, I won't be around until Sunday, so I'd appreciate it if you gave me a chance to comment on stuff that happened over the weekend before you lynch me.

ninja'd