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[ashersky]

Yeah, I dont get any read on sudgy (people say things like that, usually without any grand plan.. but it's natural to want to explain it that way) and faust (understandable vote, especially if you don't consider sudgy saying what he did something that happens in almost every game by someone).

Eevee's different this game.  Changing up a meta?  Lots of null reads and jokes, no buddying OR scum reads.  Hmmmm...

[Voltaire]

Apologies, I have thoughts about things, will post this afternoon

Did this happen?  If not, FOS.

Nope, it didn't.

[ashersky]

Alright everybody, you'll be seeing a lot more of me (real-world) today. Promise.

A reminder to my 8 fellow town players - you have better reads than I do, mathematically. You're all looking for 4 scum in 11. I'm looking for 4 scum in 12.

A reminder to the 4 scum players - you have better odds of lynching the other team now that I claimed. You're looking for 2 scum in 10. Sorry for taking our PR off the table. 

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

B = D > A > C

[Robz888]

Yeah, I dont get any read on sudgy (people say things like that, usually without any grand plan.. but it's natural to want to explain it that way) and faust (understandable vote, especially if you don't consider sudgy saying what he did something that happens in almost every game by someone).

Eevee's different this game.  Changing up a meta?  Lots of null reads and jokes, no buddying OR scum reads.  Hmmmm...

Yes, yes, good point.

As for lio, I do have to mention that this is becoming a thing for him. He replaced out of M31 and generally seems like he's struggling to make time for Forum Games stuff.

[ashersky]

So, you keep insisting that your statement wasn't scummy, only "controversial". Here's the thing: A statement is controversial if people have strong reactions in favor of it AND against it. It's not controversial if everyone basically agrees that it was a bad thing to say, and that's what happened.

So either your plan was flawed from the beginning because your statement wasn't what you needed it to be, or there was no plan at all and you try to cover up what might be perceived as a scummy statement with your big plan. If you had just said "sorry, I didn't think about that", I would not have found you nearly as scummy as I do now.

I disagree with this line of thinking while agreeing with sudgy's, and maybe that's why I come down on the faust is the scummy one side of the argument.

A statement like "a statement is controversial if people have strong reactions in favor of it AND against it.  It's not controversial if everyoen basically agrees that it was a bad thing to say..." isn't helpful (or true).

There are plenty of controversial statements that very few people agree with.  You can find many of them in the RSP forum.

Whether sudgy was actually executing a plan is an arguable point.  But I don't think arguing that the plan isn't believeable as a plan because it isn't great isn't the way to do it.

I think it's pretty well-known that I use controversy (or whatever you want to call it) to stir up games and get them going.  Sometimes it's really pissed some players off.  Other times it's fizzled and done nothing.  But there are definitely times when it has been a boon to town.

I tend to believe sudgy here, both that he said something anti-town (the doctor POE statement) on purpose to garner reactions AND that he voted Robz for pressure.

[Voltaire]

As for lio, I do have to mention that this is becoming a thing for him. He replaced out of M31 and generally seems like he's struggling to make time for Forum Games stuff.

On the other hand, lio is rather "ornery" as town. I re-read him as scum in B2B and he was more deferential. In the tiny number of posts he has here, he's been ornery.

He also hasn't scumhunted, ever.

[Voltgloss]

There are plenty of controversial statements that very few people agree with.  You can find many of them in the RSP forum.

+350,000

[ashersky]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

There's nothing wrong or scummy in this statement, but if it was posted out of context with no author, and you asked me to guess which forum games veteran wrote it, I'd get it wrong 100 times out of 100.  It's like Eevee gave his phone to someone else to answer.

[ashersky]

Archetype and liopoil are mega lurking.

I do think Arch has some IRL going on -- he posted elsewhere he might have to out of something.  Dunno.

I read Arch pretty well (when he posts).  Null here, as he hasn't posted enough.

Jokey Arch is slightly scummier than serious Arch.  So his Voltaire joke doesn't help his cred.

[ashersky]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

[ashersky]

Okay, caught up.  I'm current with you all.

Still fine with my faust vote.  Could definitely go Eevee.

[Voltgloss]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

There's nothing wrong or scummy in this statement, but if it was posted out of context with no author, and you asked me to guess which forum games veteran wrote it, I'd get it wrong 100 times out of 100.  It's like Eevee gave his phone to someone else to answer.

Sure you didn't accidentally send him his metamafia PM early?

[Robz888]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

There's nothing wrong or scummy in this statement, but if it was posted out of context with no author, and you asked me to guess which forum games veteran wrote it, I'd get it wrong 100 times out of 100.  It's like Eevee gave his phone to someone else to answer.

I totally agree, I'm so glad you said this. This was EXACTLY my reaction to Eevee's Star Wars explanation, too.

[Voltaire]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

[Voltaire]

Robz and Voltgloss, have you done your reading assignments? Please post your subsequent thoughts on sudgy ASAP.

[Robz888]

Robz and Voltgloss, have you done your reading assignments? Please post your subsequent thoughts on sudgy ASAP.

No, I didn't. I will though.

[Voltgloss]

Robz and Voltgloss, have you done your reading assignments? Please post your subsequent thoughts on sudgy ASAP.

I have not had the opportunity yet.  I expect to have it late this evening.

[Voltaire]

Very good.

Tomorrow I expect to - you guessed it, Robz!  - start narrowing our lynch pool. These will be suggested eliminations. I'm not going to go nearly as far as I normally do. I'm doing this so soon because I will be completely V/LA from late Friday to an unknown time on Sunday. With a deadline on Monday, I don't want to risk us running up only two ugly wagons or something.

Hopefully the rest of you (who are, again, statistically more likely to be successful) get some good stuff done this weekend.

[ashersky]

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

Yeah, this.  I remember thinking this was super bad when it happened, but we moved on.  I'm glad you re-mentioned it.

I'm already voting faust, though.

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

I think anyone, as scum, THINKS the words "do not kill."  I think a scum slip, by true definition, is when scum types and posts what they were thinking as scum.

So I think that, if faust is scum, he thought those words and posted them on accident.

It's more the explanation.  He's telling the scum teams not to kill him in case they use his list as a guide?  What?

If he had written "Voltaire - doc.  Do not lynch.  Likely no to be killed at night" it would have made sense.  Did he mean that, actually?  Maybe.  But his explanation doesn't say he meant that.  He says he was instructing the scum teams.

That's fishy.

[liopoil]

what? I am not in Utah, I'm on forum time. It is 5pm here. I have read everything and am going to post things now, including the abcd thing.

[Voltgloss]

Do you seriously think faust, as scum, typed out the words "do not kill" and posted them?

In a world where a good scumplayer types and posts "I have a 0% chance of flipping town," <i>anything</i> is possible.

I'm with ash in that I'm more curious about the explanation faust gave.  I've read it again several times now and I simply don't think I understand it.  faust, can you elaborate?

[Voltaire]

I echo the calls for faust to comment on this.

[Robz888]

Wow, okay, I just totally missed this--and all comentary on this--until now. Makes me think I am reading really lazily.

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

"Do not lynch, do not kill." I read this as his advice to himself, which WOULD indicate that he is scum. It could be as simple as, these are private notes he kept for himself, and he didn't realize he hadn't properly santized them.

I mean there's no context to me where "Do not lynch, do no kill" makes any sense, apart from the one where faust is scum.

I don't think he meant it as a coded message to the other team though.

[Robz888]

Vote: faust

[Archetype]

Sorry everyone, here. Been fairly busy, but I'll reread and post my thoughts.