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[Eevee]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

[Voltaire]

I'm not exactly sure what the policy towards ongoing games is. Can I say stuff about Robz in M34, as we're both dead there?

My understanding is no, because there are players (like me) also in M34 who are not dead.

[Voltaire]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

[mail-mi]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

It has now been 24 hours since NHS was prodded. 24 more hours from now, he's eligible for replacement in my understanding of the rules. mods, pretty-please line up a replacement for him in case it is needed? And NHS, if you're reading this and come back, welcome back! This statement is nothing personal, just trying to make sure we have a complete team here and we're glad to have you!

Can do.

[Robz888]

faust, do you stand by your scummy opinion of Robz? If so, is it still for the reason(s) you can't explain? (just say yes or no about that)

Yes, I am actually more convinced now that Robz is scum than I was before. Yes, I still can't explain.

Huh.  I'm surprised by this.  I thought I understood what faust was thinking re: Robz, but apparently not.

Agreed, btw.

I'm not exactly sure what the policy towards ongoing games is. Can I say stuff about Robz in M34, as we're both dead there?

Yeah, I thought that's what it is. The answer, unfortunately, is NO, you can't. Ongoing games shouldn't be discussed.

[faust]

So I think It would be B >  D > A > C. But I am not sure right now.

Really, D > A? You know the statistical probability of D (from your perspective, assuming you're town) is 7.2%, and that of A 38.2%? You'd need to be pretty darn confident in your reads to think that D is more likely than A.

[Voltaire]

I just read re-read sudgy in LOTR1.

[sudgy]

So sudgy, you've been around, but didn't bother answering this:

I don't think what I said was scummy, but that it was controversial.

Okay then, why do you think it's scummy to react to a controversial statement?

and this:

help me realize more how your statement (as ridiculous as I thought that it was) can be used as a part of a plan to garner reactions and get reads from there.

Maybe you just don't have good answers to these questions?

So, first, the reason I think it's scummy to find me scummy for a controversial statement (not for some to react to it, as you said) is that controversial statements aren't scummy.  And, my vote on you solidified more from your reaction, which also seemed somewhat scummy.

My plan, was to make a controversial statement, and see who would jump on it as scummy.  I think that people who find non-scummy statements are more likely to be scum than not.  And, it makes more reactions as well.

More thoughts on Sudgy voting (dealing with the L-2 "wagon" that came up on Robz)

To put Robz at L-2 we have Sudgy:
Reply #213 on: November 05, 2013, 11:03:47 am

E has been pretty useful, so I'll move to Vote: Robz888.

And the first to remove their vote, ending the "wagon" is sudgy:
Reply #231 on: November 05, 2013, 01:05:52 pm

My vote was mainly for pressure, and Robz has had time to respond, so Unvote.

A mere 17 posts  and almost 2 hours between the sudgy's self-proclaimed "pressure" vote and the recall when "sufficient time had elapsed for Robz to respond". 

These are a few of the posts that occured during that time:

My vote is part-RVS, part-ongoing-game-reasons. Sorry that I can't say anything else.

Obi Wan Kenobi was pretty smart. Siths were the mafia of star wars, and Robz's play matches the sith narrative Obi Wan proposed to the dot!

but Robz made such a bold claim that I want to hear more from him, rather than his agreement with others

and the only thing we get from Robz during that time is

Well my statement wasn't a serious statement...

So Faust was RVS, with something else that he never talked about.  maybe this:

Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.

I definitely read Eevee as a RVS vote having a bit of fun with the Star Wars quote, and I asked for further explanation from Robz, which was not given except to say the statement was not serious.


Whatever the case, I don't buy the "Robz has had time to respond" line.  Sure, I can agree that it was a pressure vote, but to be the first one to leave after almost no additional content is interesting.  Not enough to make me read sudgy as scummy, but then combined with the other stuff it adds up.  I am content with my sudgy vote for now.

Robz had posted more, he mentioned how an L-2 wagon had built up on him quickly.  I could tell he wouldn't say anymore so I got off.


Why do people not believe my plans are plans?  I've done things like this in almost every game before now, and now nobody believes me.  I guess I should just get lynched to take me out of the equation.  Vote: sudgy

jk, I'm not turning into ash .  Vote: faust again.


Also, anybody reading me in LotR, watch for my interactions with Jimmmmm (my scumpartner).

[Robz888]

So sudgy, you've been around, but didn't bother answering this:

I don't think what I said was scummy, but that it was controversial.

Okay then, why do you think it's scummy to react to a controversial statement?

and this:

help me realize more how your statement (as ridiculous as I thought that it was) can be used as a part of a plan to garner reactions and get reads from there.

Maybe you just don't have good answers to these questions?

So, first, the reason I think it's scummy to find me scummy for a controversial statement (not for some to react to it, as you said) is that controversial statements aren't scummy.  And, my vote on you solidified more from your reaction, which also seemed somewhat scummy.

My plan, was to make a controversial statement, and see who would jump on it as scummy.  I think that people who find non-scummy statements are more likely to be scum than not.  And, it makes more reactions as well.

Okay, but isn't it true that your vote on me--which precipitated this whole thing--was because I made a controversial statement? Shouldn't I find you scummy then, based on your logic?

[sudgy]

Okay, but isn't it true that your vote on me--which precipitated this whole thing--was because I made a controversial statement? Shouldn't I find you scummy then, based on your logic?

My vote on you was for pressure, and nothing else.

[Voltaire]

I have ABCD statements from: Voltgloss, faust, 2.7, Gveoniz, and Robz.

I still need them from: liopoil, Archetype, ashersky, sudgy, Yuma, Eevee, NHSederholm

[faust]

So, first, the reason I think it's scummy to find me scummy for a controversial statement (not for some to react to it, as you said) is that controversial statements aren't scummy.  And, my vote on you solidified more from your reaction, which also seemed somewhat scummy.

My plan, was to make a controversial statement, and see who would jump on it as scummy.  I think that people who find non-scummy statements are more likely to be scum than not.  And, it makes more reactions as well.

So, you keep insisting that your statement wasn't scummy, only "controversial". Here's the thing: A statement is controversial if people have strong reactions in favor of it AND against it. It's not controversial if everyone basically agrees that it was a bad thing to say, and that's what happened.

So either your plan was flawed from the beginning because your statement wasn't what you needed it to be, or there was no plan at all and you try to cover up what might be perceived as a scummy statement with your big plan. If you had just said "sorry, I didn't think about that", I would not have found you nearly as scummy as I do now.

[Eevee]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

[Voltaire]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

Please rank them, and if you find some of them trivial (1% odds or something like that), please indicate that. I understand I'm asking you to put what may be vague feelings into a statement - please do so anyway.

[sudgy]

I have ABCD statements from: Voltgloss, faust, 2.7, Gveoniz, and Robz.

I still need them from: liopoil, Archetype, ashersky, sudgy, Yuma, Eevee, NHSederholm

Oh right, I need to do that too... 

From my voting, it's somewhat obvious that I think it's B > A.  A is possible, of course.  And of course not C or D.

So, first, the reason I think it's scummy to find me scummy for a controversial statement (not for some to react to it, as you said) is that controversial statements aren't scummy.  And, my vote on you solidified more from your reaction, which also seemed somewhat scummy.

My plan, was to make a controversial statement, and see who would jump on it as scummy.  I think that people who find non-scummy statements are more likely to be scum than not.  And, it makes more reactions as well.

So, you keep insisting that your statement wasn't scummy, only "controversial". Here's the thing: A statement is controversial if people have strong reactions in favor of it AND against it. It's not controversial if everyone basically agrees that it was a bad thing to say, and that's what happened.

So either your plan was flawed from the beginning because your statement wasn't what you needed it to be, or there was no plan at all and you try to cover up what might be perceived as a scummy statement with your big plan. If you had just said "sorry, I didn't think about that", I would not have found you nearly as scummy as I do now.

What I meant by "controversial" was that it probably shouldn't be said in the first place because some people might think I would be giving scum more information.  Also, I wouldn't want to say "sorry, I didn't think about that", because that would be plain lying, and it's bad to lie as town.

[Eevee]

I would like everyone, in their next post, to summarize (or state for the first time) their opinion on faust/sudgy. Do you think they are most likely:

A) town / town
B) town / scum
C) scum / scum (bussing)
D) scum / scum (dif. teams)

Ok, so I'm too lazy/incompetent to do the actual math, so I'm just putting out a list based on my gut feelings of the probabilities, which might actually contradict of what I think of said players. For someone who isn't drawing strong conclusions of either players alignments from the interaction, this feels quite pointless but I understand Voltaire must be trying to get somewhere.

B - A -       D -      C.

[Voltaire]

I have ABCD statements from: Voltgloss, faust, 2.7, Gveoniz, Robz, sudgy, and Eevee.

I still need them from: liopoil, Archetype, ashersky, Yuma, NHSederholm

Spoiler alert: I'd like us to lynch a lurker. Freakin' post, people.

[ashersky]

Okay, I'm here.  Will read and respond.

Don't forget my time zone.

[Voltaire]

Okay, I'm here.  Will read and respond.

Don't forget my time zone.

Yes, you I understand. Others not so much.

[2.71828.....]

So Voltaire, are you going to lead us?

vote: Archetype 

so you weren't kidding here were you.  Liopoil said he would post "this afternoon" (since from Idaho he still has some time left to get posts in during his "afternoon").  I have given up on NHS, and Ashersky and Yuma have been active enough they probably just haven't got around to posting for your ABCD yet, which is totally fine.  People have to work, no matter how much it gets in the way of other stuff.

[Robz888]

Archetype and liopoil are mega lurking.

[sudgy]

I just reread faust, and not much sticks out (just doc talk, robz talk, and our "debacle", to use someone else's language ()).  I reread him in NMIV too, and he seemed to be trying to push discussion more there than here, which brings up his scumminess a bit.

Also, there's this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

When I first read it, something felt weird about it but I didn't worry about it.  Now that I think about it more, it -could- be him covering a scumslip.  I don't think so, but it almost looks like it.  The way he says things (like his "Err...") seem to be more clumsy, which would make it seem more genuine.

[Voltaire]

People have to work, no matter how much it gets in the way of other stuff.

It looks more impatient than it is because they are two linked but not directly related statements.

It's the people who have been away for longer than that I'm upset with. Archetype and lio mostly. It sucks we have NHS not playing. Others have been here more recently but aren't saying much.

[ashersky]

Am I right that the only time sudgy has been mafia is LOTR1?  (He was SK in Dynasty Warriors, but that's rather a different animal than the type of scum we're dealing with here.)

Robz:  I get the sense your read on sudgy is informed by your experiences with him in LOTR1.  Mine is definitely informed by my experiences with him in LOTR2, where he was town and I was scum, and he was lynched Day 1 for - among other things - voting specifically (and admittedly) for pressure reasons in order to get interactions going.  I and my scumpartners (mail-mi, shraeye) argued this was scummy and he was lynched.  We, of course, were lying.

Now, I've never read LOTR1, so perhaps you're seeing parallels there to scum!sudgy that are not obvious to me - same way as I'm seeing a parallel to town!sudgy in LOTR2 that are not obvious to you.  I'll make a deal with you:  you read LOTR2 sudgy, and I'll read LOTR1 sudgy.  Sound good?  You only have one day of activity to read while I have three, so you've got the easier end of the bargain. 

Actually, LOTR1 is probably a good game for us all to look over, being a recent multiball game with two scumteams of two players each.

FWIW, as the LOTR mod, I didn't jump to a "this sudgy feels like Dragon sudgy" feeling.

[ashersky]

Apologies, I have thoughts about things, will post this afternoon

Did this happen?  If not, FOS.