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[sudgy]

So I've reviewed LOTR 1.  My thoughts on scum!sudgy's behavior there, to the extent germane to this game:

- He spent most of Day 1 looking for defensible places to put his vote. 
- He reacted defensively and aggressively to a town player (raerae) building a case on him, by seeking to build a case on raerae (for "semitunneling") and arguing for her scummitude for pretty much the rest of the game.
- He made effort trying to figure out where other people were leaning lynchwise, apparently so his own joining that wagon to push it through wouldn't draw attention.
- He did not pull any self-endangering gambits.  He played very, in my eyes, "safe."

The sudgy I'm seeing in this game feels a lot more like LOTR 2 town!sudgy then LOTR 1 scum!sudgy.

Robz, your thoughts on LOTR 2?

Two notes on this: First, I had a legitimate scumread on raerae until both Orcs were dead.  Second, in Shakespeare, I pulled off a huuuuuuge gambit.

And, I know I had a post somewhere in MXXV (Mean Girls) explaining why I change how I play each game (based on how busy I am, how it is at the start, etc.).


PPE: Yay!  Vote: Jimmmmm (note that this isn't boldfaced)

[Jimmmmm]

Hi all! So I'm a little way towards being caught up, halfway or less.

My first impression is Vote: ashersky.

My second is a major Vote: faust for these atrocities:

Yup, and everyone opposed to the plan is scum. Out yourselves, scum.

Are they though? The weird thing about this plan is that noone really has strong incentive to oppose it. It helps town by reducing the lynch pool, it helps scum by reducing their NK pool.

... this has me worried a little. I think an outed doctor will die as soon as one scum team has the upper hand. If it's two scum A/one scum B/town, scum B won't shoot the doctor, they need to hit scum A. Scum A can safely shoot the doctor, and that's good for them, because they don't want a reduced lynch pool at this point (and they don't have much incentive to shoot scum B because that would mean one NK less and thus a longer game).

I'm not so sure anymore that this doctor claim is really a good idea.

NOT happy with the doc claim. He'll be killed as soon as we get our first correct lynch in. But you guys didn't even bother listening to me. I am again unhappy that I can't be around when the important discussions happen...

And now that I've checked the last vote count it seems that will put him on L-1, so I'll Unvote for now. Can someone please summarise the case on faust for me?

[sudgy]

Jimmmmm: I had a plan that he somewhat fell into (I made a controversial (but not scummy) statement and he jumped on it saying it was scummy), his reaction to it seemed scummy, and there -might- be a scumslip with his saying "do not kill".

[sudgy]

It would probably be better to read everything to see it though, I think it's said better when each thing happens.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm: I had a plan that he somewhat fell into (I made a controversial (but not scummy) statement and he jumped on it saying it was scummy), his reaction to it seemed scummy, and there -might- be a scumslip with his saying "do not kill".

What was the statement?

[Robz888]

Jimm, other people are voting faust for reasons I don't think are very good. Here's why I am voting faust:

Wow, okay, I just totally missed this--and all comentary on this--until now. Makes me think I am reading really lazily.

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

"Do not lynch, do not kill." I read this as his advice to himself, which WOULD indicate that he is scum. It could be as simple as, these are private notes he kept for himself, and he didn't realize he hadn't properly santized them.

I mean there's no context to me where "Do not lynch, do no kill" makes any sense, apart from the one where faust is scum.

I don't think he meant it as a coded message to the other team though.

[Voltaire]

Robz, aren't you a "there's no such thing as scumslips" guy?

[sudgy]

Jimmmmm: I had a plan that he somewhat fell into (I made a controversial (but not scummy) statement and he jumped on it saying it was scummy), his reaction to it seemed scummy, and there -might- be a scumslip with his saying "do not kill".

What was the statement?

We were talking about if the doctor should claim or not, and I started trying to POE the doctor (only to see if someone would jump on it).

[Jimmmmm]

So you think he was approaching it from the point of view of things that he could participate in. Others think he was trying to coordinate with the other scumteam. I think I read someone say they thought it was a language thing or just a mistake. But he's claiming that he was in fact telling both scumteams not to kill him. As if they would listen to what a non-them said.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmmmm: I had a plan that he somewhat fell into (I made a controversial (but not scummy) statement and he jumped on it saying it was scummy), his reaction to it seemed scummy, and there -might- be a scumslip with his saying "do not kill".

What was the statement?

We were talking about if the doctor should claim or not, and I started trying to POE the doctor (only to see if someone would jump on it).

Yeah I thought it was just that. Seriously? That's such a minor, non-controversial thing to say. The controversial thing is whether or not it's best for the Doctor to claim. If the majority think it is, of course PoEing is possible and will be done by scum.

[sudgy]

Jimmmmm: I had a plan that he somewhat fell into (I made a controversial (but not scummy) statement and he jumped on it saying it was scummy), his reaction to it seemed scummy, and there -might- be a scumslip with his saying "do not kill".

What was the statement?

We were talking about if the doctor should claim or not, and I started trying to POE the doctor (only to see if someone would jump on it).

Yeah I thought it was just that. Seriously? That's such a minor, non-controversial thing to say. The controversial thing is whether or not it's best for the Doctor to claim. If the majority think it is, of course PoEing is possible and will be done by scum.

That was the point.

[Jimmmmm]

My read on sudgy or faust doesnt change much because of the interaction (=I don't read much into it) I guess what robz is saying resonates with me the best, so slightly scummier on sudgy.

Are you closer to A, B, C, or D?

This feels like answering to a math problem. I think sudgy is slightly scummier than an average player, faust is as scummy as an average player. Those are the assumptions I'd plug in to the equation, should I do the math or is this sufficient?

There's nothing wrong or scummy in this statement, but if it was posted out of context with no author, and you asked me to guess which forum games veteran wrote it, I'd get it wrong 100 times out of 100.  It's like Eevee gave his phone to someone else to answer.

This actually sounds like a great game. We should play it sometime.

[sudgy]

Oops, I forgot, put Eevee on my would be fine lynching list.

[Jimmmmm]

We have what, three days until deadline? What happens if we don't lynch before then?

[Voltgloss]

Rules don't say explicitly so I assume the usual: no lynch.

[Jimmmmm]

This two scum team situation is so weird.. I absolutely agree with not giving scum free information, hence being firmly against it at first. Then I realized that we have a common enemy with both scum teams (the other scum team). It all comes back to which side is the favorite here. Take one townie out pregame, town would be in such a rough spot, scum would surely prioritize killing each other instead of going after us. Here, I'm not sure.

One thing is that if the doctor manages to live until the end unclaimed, it's a real power role. Any kind of claiming makes that small chance even smaller.

You all seem to keep forgetting that we share a common enemy with each scum team - the other scum team! We're all scumhunting here, so if I give out directions for all scumhunters ("do not lynch"), I might as well give directions to a subgroup of scum hunters ("do not kill"). Are they gonna listen to me? Probably no. But is that a reason not to write it?

More importantly, the scum narrative for me seems to be "he wanted to remind himself not to kill the doctor". Now look back at what I said regarding the doctor claiming. It should be abundantly clear from this that as scum, I would be really happy to kill the doctor as soon as one of the other scum is dead, which could already be tonight. So even if you think that I would slip like that (and I have yet to see a case where someone was correctly caught after a "scumslip"), it doesn't make sense because that's not even what my opinion as scum would be.

Just noticed this. These two phrases are eerily similar.

[Jimmmmm]

Rules don't say explicitly so I assume the usual: no lynch.

Yeah, this is a major part of the rules that seem to be missing in a lot of games.

[Robz888]

Robz, aren't you a "there's no such thing as scumslips" guy?

Uh, no. Not at all? I enthusiastically voted Voltgloss for his 'scumslip' in Wibbly Wobbly, and I would do it again. And this one is better than that one (or at least, faust hasn't provided nearly as compelling a rationalization as Voltgloss did).

I don't remember ever having a "there's no such thing as scumslips" stance, so you must be remembering someone else.

[Voltaire]

I don't remember ever having a "there's no such thing as scumslips" stance, so you must be remembering someone else.

You're right, must be a different vet. I know yuma is one, but he's not voting faust, so that makes sense.

Also, faust was talking about me with his "do not kill", right? I'm seeing some posts which seem to imply people think faust was talking about himself.

[Robz888]

Also, faust was talking about me with his "do not kill", right? I'm seeing some posts which seem to imply people think faust was talking about himself.

He was talking about you, based on what I read.

[ashersky]

Welcome back Jimmmmm.

Why vote me?

I made several case posts on Faust (and Eevee).  Nice catch on wording.  I bet we see that same language in their scum QT.

[Voltaire]

Welcome back Jimmmmm.

Why vote me?

I made several case posts on Faust (and Eevee).  Nice catch on wording.  I bet we see that same language in their scum QT.

That "catch" on wording is not a catch at all. It's simply part of the collective terms we've created to describe this setup. I've used other people's phrases as town in past games when I find them useful.

[2.71828.....]

Ok.  I have reread all of fausts posts and it seems like the wagon on him stems from two seperate posts

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

The first quote caused people to question faust as scum because of how quickly he jumped to vote sudgy as opposed to merely questioning the statement itself.  That line of reasoning carries little weight IMO and sudgy garnered more suspicion in that whole exchange.

The second quote is what brought people really after faust.  The "Scumslip" quote.  Lots of discussion as to whether it was or was not one, the most ridiculous explanation coming from yuma (the language explanation-which was agreed upon by archetype).  This cast some suspicion about a faust/yuma scumteam, which may be a possibility, I just don't see enough to really go there yet.

However, fausts penultimate post before he goes V/LA until Sunday has me most confused about him.

Overall: I actually don't think it is of great importance for us to lynch scum today (in fact, we might be better off lynching town).

What do you mean that "we might be better off lynching town"  That just seems absurd.  I don't really see a situation where lynching town is a good thing.  There is a reason it is called a "mis-lynch" when you lynch a member of the town.  However, this doesn't really read like a scum-slip to me, just something that was not really thought out.  Is faust trying to build some sort of meta about "not-really-thought-out" posts.  I mean, he has another one this game:

NOT happy with the doc claim. He'll be killed as soon as we get our first correct lynch in. But you guys didn't even bother listening to me. I am again unhappy that I can't be around when the important discussions happen...

which he explains as "as soon as one scum team is killed" which is a reasonable misgiving about the doctor reveal.  But he didn't say it that way.

I am not ready to switch over to faust with my vote or anything, but that is some explanation as to why he is on my "also want to lynch" status

[sudgy]

While your two original quotes are what sparked the discussion, what he said after them and explaining himself is the biggest thing.

[2.71828.....]

While your two original quotes are what sparked the discussion, what he said after them and explaining himself is the biggest thing.

True.  His lack of a solid defense for the statement was really what gave the wagon some wheels.