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[faust]

I tried to put together some thoughts on the players so far. It's hard. The strange thing about this game is everyone has an incentive to scumhunt, but that at the same time makes it harder to scumhunt. So all I got is this:

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.
ashersky - town read for previously explained reasons.
Voltgloss - helps keeping the game moving, do not want to lynch
Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.
sudgy - when we hadn't yet decided if the doctor should claim, he was trying to POE the doctor. Scum read.

[Gveoniz]

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

[faust]

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

[Gveoniz]

Voltaire - doc. Do not lynch, do not kill.

Why are you talking about "do not kill"?  Informing the other scum team not to kill him?

Err... I'm informing all scum teams not to kill him? They are all scumhunting in a way, so maybe they find reads lists helpful to find opposing scum. If I were scum, why would I want to inform the other scum team of anything? They would be a bigger threat to me than town.

I guess your explanation is reasonable, still feel really strange though.

[Voltaire]

NOT happy with the doc claim. He'll be killed as soon as we get our first correct lynch in. But you guys didn't even bother listening to me. I am again unhappy that I can't be around when the important discussions happen...

faust, ultimately the only person you had to convince is me. I decided the pro-claim arguments out-weighed the anti-claim arguments. Ideally I would have waited a bit longer to claim, but the deadline on Monday doesn't give us a terrible amount of time post-claim with slow weekends.

[Gveoniz]

By the way, here is my thought on the doctor claim:

I think this is a fair trade, I am unable to judge how good it really is though. But since the claim have already happened this don't really matter any more.

Voltaire started off liking the claiming idea, then asked for reasons for votes (which I think I can understand but not fully comprehend its use, can you explain it to me?) I feel that it is totally reasonable for him being the actual doctor. But we have too wait and see. (sudgy, liopoil, Archetype, Yuma and NHSederholm have yet to post here since the claim)

It is possible that the doctor does not counter claim right now (happened in mafiascum open 434 mentioned by voltgloss and me) to see if the other mafia team would kill him. However I suggest one to counter claim now if applicable (as suppose to what one scum suggested in the mafiascum game, and even worse, having the real doctor adopting it) since the other team would not know whether the claimed doctor belongs to the other team and therefore feel safe to shoot.

(This does open the possibility for scums to shoot the claimed doctor thinking that the doctor can be of the other team even without CC. But it probably wouldn't.)

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

I don't understand this, especially with an actually claim now by someone saying it is good.
But since this is his most recent post, he  would have answer it, with other already questioning it.

[Eevee]

vote: nhs

when he gets here, it'll be easier for him to start contributing if we give him something to talk about!

[mail-mi]

NHS has been prodded.

[Voltaire]

Also, no plan.  Except someone needs to draw both NKs so that there are no NKs.  So, I do have a plan.

What town PR is most likely to get NKed?  Maybe they can claim, force wifom, and either not die from two kills or not die because both teams dodge them?

Oh, 8 freaking VTs?  Yeesh.

Doctor can claim, force both teams to decide who shoots him, either both or neither.  Lives forever?

Homework:  Is "ash who hasn't carefully reviewed the setup pregame" generally town!ash, or generally scum!ash?

Results:

ash as scum
ash's most recent scum game was M25 (Mean Girls), where he had a plan for everyone to say who they would have picked if they were mafia (in this game, mafia got to pick their partners pre-game). He had clearly read the setup closely. Prior to that, ash was last scum in M18, and had no obvious plan D1. He seemed to pretend he didn't know multiball, but it was long enough ago he quite possibly didn't yet know multiball. At this point, the games were so old ash's meta has almost certainly changed and I don't see any value in looking further back.

ash as town
In M32, ash came roaring out of the gate with a plan. Same for M30. In M29, he came out with a massclaim plan, but appeared to convince himself of it after stating it (talking out loud, in a way) after his first post. In M28, he had an intentionally horrible plan and had clearly read the setup. In M27, ash staunchly opposed a plan proposed by others due to theory disagreements about its usefulness. He had clearly read the setup. M22, he had a plan to be silly and see if anyone would vote him for it. M19, ash had some claiming plans for later days involving semi-follow-the-cop. At this point, I stopped going back.

I looked at every ash game M18 to the present. Honestly, I can't find a single example of ash not reading the setup closely pre-game. The closest would be M29. This is a null tell for ash, or maybe 1% town, but overall I get nothing from this line of inquiry.

ash, any comments on not having your plan fully formed?

[Robz888]

Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.

What do you mean, I "always" seem scummy to you? The only other time we played together, we were both scum, so obviously I did, yeah.

[Voltaire]

The town that lurks together, loses together. Seriously, what the heck?

[faust]

Robz - always seems scummy to me, and here as well. He behaved differently from what I expected of him in this game, but I can't evaluate what that means yet.

What do you mean, I "always" seem scummy to you? The only other time we played together, we were both scum, so obviously I did, yeah.

It what I remember from reading through older games, and also *censored because ongoing game talk*

[ashersky]

Also, no plan.  Except someone needs to draw both NKs so that there are no NKs.  So, I do have a plan.

What town PR is most likely to get NKed?  Maybe they can claim, force wifom, and either not die from two kills or not die because both teams dodge them?

Oh, 8 freaking VTs?  Yeesh.

Doctor can claim, force both teams to decide who shoots him, either both or neither.  Lives forever?

Homework:  Is "ash who hasn't carefully reviewed the setup pregame" generally town!ash, or generally scum!ash?

Results:

ash as scum
ash's most recent scum game was M25 (Mean Girls), where he had a plan for everyone to say who they would have picked if they were mafia (in this game, mafia got to pick their partners pre-game). He had clearly read the setup closely. Prior to that, ash was last scum in M18, and had no obvious plan D1. He seemed to pretend he didn't know multiball, but it was long enough ago he quite possibly didn't yet know multiball. At this point, the games were so old ash's meta has almost certainly changed and I don't see any value in looking further back.

ash as town
In M32, ash came roaring out of the gate with a plan. Same for M30. In M29, he came out with a massclaim plan, but appeared to convince himself of it after stating it (talking out loud, in a way) after his first post. In M28, he had an intentionally horrible plan and had clearly read the setup. In M27, ash staunchly opposed a plan proposed by others due to theory disagreements about its usefulness. He had clearly read the setup. M22, he had a plan to be silly and see if anyone would vote him for it. M19, ash had some claiming plans for later days involving semi-follow-the-cop. At this point, I stopped going back.

I looked at every ash game M18 to the present. Honestly, I can't find a single example of ash not reading the setup closely pre-game. The closest would be M29. This is a null tell for ash, or maybe 1% town, but overall I get nothing from this line of inquiry.

ash, any comments on not having your plan fully formed?

Not much comment, no.  I generally read the setup closely, yes.  Not always ahead of time, though.  Honestly?  I was disappointed to roll VT (I'm always sad when I get the Dear VT letter) that I didn't think on the game much until it started.  I also personally prefer complicated set ups, which I can delve into a bit more.

I will mention that on D1 of Mean Girls, I honestly believed there were only two scum the entire time.  I didn't catch the three scum possibility in the setup from the start.

[sudgy]

Yay, doctor claim!  Good job!

2.7 isn't really scummy for it, to my mind. I like secret, unexplained strategies, so I can overlook faust. I have made RVS votes and then not moved them as well, so Voltgloss's is okay.

Eevee I just don't get it all, his explanation made me feel like I was playing a different game than him.

Sudgy's was the worst, probably. It's hard to argue that he actually thought he was pressuring me--to do what? I was active--and then came off so quickly. I mean he's most obviously lying that it was for pressure.

Well Vote: sudgy then.

Read almost any game I've played on here.  See how many votes I've made for pressure, trying to do something.  Then unvote.  It was also a great pressure vote because it put you to L-2, that was the main reason I did it.  And I didn't say the pressure worked, I was just saying that I couldn't really get many more reactions from it.

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

1.  Why do you think this?
2.  Why did you say it?

I actually wasn't sure if it was true, but I thought a way better way to get interactions was to say something controversial and see who would jump on it.  See:

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

[faust]

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

1.  Why do you think this?
2.  Why did you say it?

I actually wasn't sure if it was true, but I thought a way better way to get interactions was to say something controversial and see who would jump on it.  See:

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

Do I read this correctly? You said something scummy so you can find people scummy for pointing out it was scummy? Now, that's a great scumhunting scheme.

[chairs]

The toy chest was abuzz (not to be confused with a Buzz) with the sound of toys arguing amongst themselves.  They were so worried that even when one of the toys claimed to be Andy himself it only briefly paused their discussion before they went back to trying to find which of the toys would lock the toy chest, and what their motives could be.  Were they trying to stay New In Box? But if that were so, why would they damage Woody?  Nobody had an answer.  That is, nobody except the culprits...


Vote Count 1.4:

Archetype (1): Voltaire
faust (2): Gveoniz, sudgy
Gveoniz (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
sudgy (2): faust, Robz888
Voltaire (1): yuma

Not Voting (4): Archetype, liopoil, NHSederholm, Voltgloss, 2.71828.....

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

[ashersky]

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

1.  Why do you think this?
2.  Why did you say it?

I actually wasn't sure if it was true, but I thought a way better way to get interactions was to say something controversial and see who would jump on it.  See:

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

Do I read this correctly? You said something scummy so you can find people scummy for pointing out it was scummy? Now, that's a great scumhunting scheme.

I agree!

vote: faust

[sudgy]

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

1.  Why do you think this?
2.  Why did you say it?

I actually wasn't sure if it was true, but I thought a way better way to get interactions was to say something controversial and see who would jump on it.  See:

I realized, we can rule out all people saying the doc claiming is good of being the doc...

That's great! Let's share it with all the scum!

Vote: sudgy

And my plan worked perfectly.  Vote: faust

Do I read this correctly? You said something scummy so you can find people scummy for pointing out it was scummy? Now, that's a great scumhunting scheme.

I don't think what I said was scummy, but that it was controversial.

[Robz888]

The toy chest was abuzz (not to be confused with a Buzz) with the sound of toys arguing amongst themselves.  They were so worried that even when one of the toys claimed to be Andy himself it only briefly paused their discussion before they went back to trying to find which of the toys would lock the toy chest, and what their motives could be.  Were they trying to stay New In Box? But if that were so, why would they damage Woody?  Nobody had an answer.  That is, nobody except the culprits...


Vote Count 1.4:

Archetype (1): Voltaire
faust (2): Gveoniz, sudgy
Gveoniz (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
sudgy (2): faust, Robz888
Voltaire (1): yuma

Not Voting (4): Archetype, liopoil, NHSederholm, Voltgloss

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

I believe 2.7 is no longer voting for me.

I know it's tough, but we have to strive for more accurate post counts, people.

[Voltaire]

unvote

[ashersky]

Also, how does Andy fit in a toy box?  Dude's a college kid.

[Robz888]

I couldn't have told you that Archetype or liopoil were even in this game, and NHS's absence is a problem. But everyone else seems to be doing stuff.

[2.71828.....]

Robz is correct that I unvoted him earlier when I joined the crew calling for the doctor reveal.  The portion of my vote that wasn't based on RVS (or really just a great opportunity for a movie quote) fell through when I joined that crew, so I thought it only fair that i recall my vote

[chairs]

The toy chest was abuzz (not to be confused with a Buzz) with the sound of toys arguing amongst themselves.  They were so worried that even when one of the toys claimed to be Andy himself it only briefly paused their discussion before they went back to trying to find which of the toys would lock the toy chest, and what their motives could be.  Were they trying to stay New In Box? But if that were so, why would they damage Woody?  Nobody had an answer.  That is, nobody except the culprits...


Vote Count 1.4:

Archetype (1): Voltaire
faust (2): Gveoniz, sudgy
Gveoniz (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
Robz888 (0):
sudgy (2): faust, Robz888
Voltaire (1): yuma

Not Voting (5): Archetype, liopoil, NHSederholm, Voltgloss, 2.71828.....

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

I believe 2.7 is no longer voting for me.

I know it's tough, but we have to strive for more accurate post counts, people.

Confirming that 2.71828..... is currently Not Voting.  The quote above has been corrected, corrections in italics

[ashersky]

The toy chest was abuzz (not to be confused with a Buzz) with the sound of toys arguing amongst themselves.  They were so worried that even when one of the toys claimed to be Andy himself it only briefly paused their discussion before they went back to trying to find which of the toys would lock the toy chest, and what their motives could be.  Were they trying to stay New In Box? But if that were so, why would they damage Woody?  Nobody had an answer.  That is, nobody except the culprits...


Vote Count 1.4:

Archetype (1): Voltaire
faust (2): Gveoniz, sudgy
Gveoniz (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
NHSederholm (1): Eevee
Robz888 (0):
sudgy (2): faust, Robz888
Voltaire (1): yuma

Not Voting (5): Archetype, liopoil, NHSederholm, Voltgloss, 2.71828.....

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day 1 ends Monday November 11 at 8ish FT.

I believe 2.7 is no longer voting for me.

I know it's tough, but we have to strive for more accurate post counts, people.

Confirming that 2.71828..... is currently Not Voting.  The quote above has been corrected, corrections in italics

Maybe a new vote count for clarity?  There was a new vote and an unvote since the last count not shown in the quote.