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[mcmcsalot]

Also, hilarious that you now think I'm being "better town."  Here's the formula for town!ashersky: post a lot, suggest some sort of claiming scheme, gain lots of suspicion, self-vote, unvote, get called out for unvoting the self-vote, self-vote again, catch scum but fail to be believed.  Next time I'm scum, I'm going to try and fake it.

I laughed at this, then realized in almost every game I've been in with you or read with you, it's true.

Of course, my big fear now is if I stop some of the not-so-constructive parts of this, I'll be called scummy.  Like, if I don't self-vote at some point during the first three days, will I get called out for it?

I will continue to find you scummy for self voting every time you do it.

Sorry about the spoiler tags, I was unaware and I didn't want to ruin the movie for anyone seeing as they are actually spoilers.

[liopoil]

yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.

I disagree.

I disagree as well.  First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through.  Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C?  If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen.  Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.

I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.

Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

[sudgy]

If you're looking for specific people I would choose, I would probably choose mail-mi as the middle person and yuma for scum.

[mcmcsalot]

A traitor spy? Like, they can see the QT, not post, but if they get targeted for a night kill they get recruited and can post in the QT?

I don't want to discuss the way in which the mafia spy would manifest itself, it will just give mafia better ideas about it, and it doesn't help us any.

Note that I said she could also be a traitor to town/win with any/miller or something

[mcmcsalot]

yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.

I disagree.

I disagree as well.  First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through.  Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C?  If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen.  Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.

I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.

Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

yes traitor I doubt, survivor/win with any I can see

[mcmcsalot]

Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ash

Really?

Yeah I'd say out of those two votes, ashersky's was clearly clearly worse..

You are kidding, right?

Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.

I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!

At least Robz makes a good point.

He could be confused town.  Or his vet partner(s) that he chose coached him to play up newbieness for town cred.  I can see Robz/Yuma/mcmc (especially mcmc!) suggesting that in a QT during pre game.

oh dont want this to go away, quoted it up. This is spirit we are talking about(no offense) the guy has a history with being confused town. And that ash omgus very scummy.

[nkirbit]

yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.

I disagree.

I disagree as well.  First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through.  Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C?  If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen.  Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.

I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.

Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

yes traitor I doubt, survivor/win with any I can see

What is survivor/win?  Someone who is chosen to be night-killed becomes mafia?

[mail-mi]

yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.

I disagree.

I disagree as well.  First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through.  Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C?  If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen.  Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.

I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.

Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

yes traitor I doubt, survivor/win with any I can see

What is survivor/win?  Someone who is chosen to be night-killed becomes mafia?

No, that's traitor. Survivor just has to live till the end to win.

[liopoil]

Really liking the fast start this game has gotten  . I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)

[ashersky]

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

4/12 would be insanely hard, given 3/12 is already though, as I noted earlier.

At 4/12, can we even mislynch twice?  4 vs 8 becomes 4 vs 6 on D2 if we mislynch and mafia NKs.  A mislynch and NK puts it at 4 vs 4, and we lose.  I mean, it can't be 4 scum in 12.  It wouldn't be fair.

[ashersky]

Really liking the fast start this game has gotten  . I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)

I think some of us were in mafia game withdrawal and now we're compensating!

[mcmcsalot]

Okay I believe I was asked to say who I would be scum with.

Man this would be a really hard decision, I would probably say:

Robz/eevee: I have won with both these guys, picking my brother is just too obvious a choice not to make.

Honorable mention of yuma: really respect his scum play and would love to be on his team.

The if I had more time strategy: ash/spiritbears: way to good a team for sending mixed signals, I have in previous games defended spirit very hard, I would do the same, defend him like crazy anytime he got suspected and if I got suspected I would pull a low blow and say it's because I really think I understand him better than most and that people are stupid for suspecting him when hes obviously town and has a different damn approach than you #Oscar speeches. Ash is necessary for the strategy because that man finds a way to be so scummy yet triple everyone's post counts aand be town. I cant see robz/eevee/yuma voting out three crazy vocal players like that. Did I mention I like winning....

[ashersky]

What is survivor/win?  Someone who is chosen to be night-killed becomes mafia?

RMM5 and RMM7 both employed traitors.  One was recruitable, the other wasn't (I don't think).  In both cases, they were anti-town, although in my game, the traitor could only win by being the last person alive if he never got recruited.  While those were both RMM games and not normal games, it is a "normal" role.

[ashersky]

Okay I believe I was asked to say who I would be scum with.

Man this would be a really hard decision, I would probably say:

Robz/eevee: I have won with both these guys, picking my brother is just too obvious a choice not to make.

Honorable mention of yuma: really respect his scum play and would love to be on his team.

The if I had more time strategy: ash/spiritbears: way to good a team for sending mixed signals, I have in previous games defended spirit very hard, I would do the same, defend him like crazy anytime he got suspected and if I got suspected I would pull a low blow and say it's because I really think I understand him better than most and that people are stupid for suspecting him when hes obviously town and has a different damn approach than you #Oscar speeches. Ash is necessary for the strategy because that man finds a way to be so scummy yet triple everyone's post counts aand be town. I cant see robz/eevee/yuma voting out three crazy vocal players like that. Did I mention I like winning....

Here's a good reason to have chosen mcmc as your partner, if whoever is scum out there did.  The guy gives 5 possible answers to a 1-2 person question, all with good information and wifom built in.

Also, I think it's important to note he's 4/4 as scum, having never lost when scum.

[liopoil]

Really liking the fast start this game has gotten  . I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)

I think some of us were in mafia game withdrawal and now we're compensating!

That's me for sure.

I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.

4/12 would be insanely hard, given 3/12 is already though, as I noted earlier.

At 4/12, can we even mislynch twice?  4 vs 8 becomes 4 vs 6 on D2 if we mislynch and mafia NKs.  A mislynch and NK puts it at 4 vs 4, and we lose.  I mean, it can't be 4 scum in 12.  It wouldn't be fair.

yeah, even 3/12 is tough. according to http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=The_EV_Project, in a game with 3 goons and 9 VTs town only has a 16.4% chance of winning. and believe it or not, even with just TWO scum, town still only has a 35.2% chance. (this is given random lynch).

Also, worth noting, that if the following it true, No Lynch D1 is strictly the best strategy:

-There is no chance of more than one kill in a night (No vigs, SK, vengeful, lovers, etc.)
-There is no chance of a kill being prevented (doc, Roleblocker, JK, etc.)

Chances are very good that one of the above exists though, and if they don't we have no way of knowing it, so we absolutely should  not No Lynch D1.

[spiritbears]

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

[mcmcsalot]

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.

[liopoil]

Digging way back in the mafia game index:

That's sort of what I was shooting for with my Mean Girls game but I really wanted a three person scum team and that math doesn't work out so well.

I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum.  As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.  Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner.  Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.

Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.

I knew I remembered something! valuable info this is!! granted this is from a while ago so it may have changed.

[nkirbit]

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

I disagree.  It's meaningless now to me, for sure, but when players start to get lynched and killed, this could be useful information to look back on.  On the otherhand, it could be worthless, but it's so easy to do, so why not?

[ashersky]

oh dont want this to go away, quoted it up. This is spirit we are talking about(no offense) the guy has a history with being confused town. And that ash omgus very scummy.

Purposefully or not, this defense of spiritbears lines up with your own reasons for why you would choose spiritbears as a scum partner.

Actually, my "argument" with sb, (which I don't see as an argument--he thought he saw something scumy about me and voted, I thought it was a scummy reason to vote, it was at least an interaction that will exist for analysis when needed) would fit your mcmc-ash-sb team narrative well.  SB gets newbie cred, I get normal ash seems scummy vibes, you get to defend sb.  My head just exploded from your wifom.

[mcmcsalot]

Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sense

[nkirbit]

Digging way back in the mafia game index:

That's sort of what I was shooting for with my Mean Girls game but I really wanted a three person scum team and that math doesn't work out so well.

I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum.  As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.  Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner.  Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.

Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.

I knew I remembered something! valuable info this is!! granted this is from a while ago so it may have changed.

Nice!  So reading this, it's A pick B, B pick C?  It's not 100% clear to me.

[ashersky]

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

I disagree.  It's meaningless now to me, for sure, but when players start to get lynched and killed, this could be useful information to look back on.  On the otherhand, it could be worthless, but it's so easy to do, so why not?

This.  The reason I suggested we do it is not to figure anything out right now, but to be able to look at the lists when we have more information (hopefully dead scum).  It's for looking back at, not finding scum on the list.

Although, if we were going to choose someone at random, the person who's name shows up the most is probably better than true random.  But, really, no random.  (Although the one time we random lynched on D1, one scum picked his partner as the random lynch and it went through.)

[mcmcsalot]

oh dont want this to go away, quoted it up. This is spirit we are talking about(no offense) the guy has a history with being confused town. And that ash omgus very scummy.

Purposefully or not, this defense of spiritbears lines up with your own reasons for why you would choose spiritbears as a scum partner.

Actually, my "argument" with sb, (which I don't see as an argument--he thought he saw something scumy about me and voted, I thought it was a scummy reason to vote, it was at least an interaction that will exist for analysis when needed) would fit your mcmc-ash-sb team narrative well.  SB gets newbie cred, I get normal ash seems scummy vibes, you get to defend sb.  My head just exploded from your wifom.

Well it came out that way because I was thinking about it lol. And the scum team idea was formed because its believable for that to happen and have anyone/all of us be town.

[spiritbears]

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.

Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile.  Like I said.  Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us