Okay let me preface, this is the exact same style reread and copy quote/compile into a word doc/respond after complete reread I did when building a case on eevee as scum in pirates. That is because I scumhunt in extremely similar ways whether I am scum or town. When I am scum I simply forget and look for what I find scummy. When I am town I tend to use town reads more because I have less faith that what people(even myself) consider scummy actually relates scumminess.
Next, I went into this as a complete reread(so a bit different I ctrl-f’ed eevee) though I came out with pretty much a case on liopoil.
Lastly I will post more thoughts and keep up now that I am caught up. So this is a bit more of a catch up/my thoughts and it may have inconsistencies due to “this is how I felt then/now” attitude I am trying to take as I think it is going to be the most helpful.
As a warning, this is probably going to have “hey you misrepresented that” moments and “that’s a stupid scummy way to look at it moments” but hey that’s how it goes, townies have their own opinions that differ from other townies so rather than writing things off try and look at it a different way(and suggest your own way of looking at it) because I think cooperation and a need to find scum is the advantage town has over scum.
Good point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
Why am I middling? Why are you? Granted, I'm a terrible choice for scum partner, given my penchant for somehow being seen as super scummy, but I thought I had a fair chance at being picked.
I definitely would have gone with vet over newbie, I think. Even with a night to plan and get to know someone in a QT, a partner you already know is going to be better, I think.
Knowledge of a scum qt and planning time
And trying to get us to overlook soon-to-come scummy actions ( "somehow being seen as super scummy") as just our predisposition to think him scummy (I had no such predisposition)
vote:ash
Going at this thread clean this still came off scummy, without reading who posts it puts it in a different perspective and I do think is a scummy statement. I mean really its just the vote that seals the deal for scumminess, I mean personally voting says I’m serious and everyone pay attention, and that’s just not something to vote over.
3 mafia out of 12 seems fitting, yes. Still somewhat relevant if they did it popcorn-style or if one guy picked both partners, as if there was only one guy picking, I'd expect him often to pick people from different "categories".
mcmc is sort of an under the radar scum mastermind too, he is a very potential recruit I would think (not too obvious but is known to pull strong performances).
Ooh, mcmc, good call. He's definitely on the radar. With a three-man team, you go vet + newbie, right? Spread out the wifom.
I agree. Well, I think there are three categories. "The most obvious" "middles" "the newer unknown players". If one guy did the picking, I'd expect him to pick from two different categories.
Yup I agree with the vet+newbie thing, I think it really depends on what your gameplan is(if you have one) I think the first scum we find will say a lot, it gives all the possibilities of why pick or not pick this person from every other persons perspective. I do think eevee looks a bit scummy trying to say hey mcmc is a great scum pick(I know I wasn’t picked) so if he is scum hes safe to make the above statement.
So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
Interesting in retrospect because you are a PR
Hey guys, I just realized, TA isn't actually in this game, so yeah, I think a couple of us mentioned him.
I actually was thinking about who I would choose a bit pre-game. I was leaning toward choosing Eevee and MGP.
Interesting that I think they could be scum partners it still fits my description with mgp/sb
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?
I think I would have chosen mcmc+MGP or something like that, afraid of going to the extremes on either end but still wanting some experience in my team. But dunno, probably very random and dependant on the mood at the moment. Like, I doubt I would actually have thought about it much on the spot.
Funny liopoil picked eevee+mgp, I think eevee wanted to up mgp’s potentially picked thing but not list liopoil and copy so closely.
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten 
. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)
Scummy in my opinion to state re-reads ect.
Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sense
just noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
I don’t see how this was scummy, I was explaining the thought process behind trying to act townie as town, I was mislynched before for running away with myself after getting a little town cred and thinking I was an IC.
Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.
vote: modestguineapig
mcmc, I don't understand what you are saying. MGP just said it's better to lynch a scummy person than a random person. That's true, obviously.
Oh I'm not worried about quickhammering or anything. I just want my vote to mean more when I do cast it. If I vote just to put pressure on someone, then my vote isn't a vote because I think they're scummy. If the person doesn't think I think them scummy, then they're hardly under pressure by me are they?
Liopoil defends mgp here very hard, laater finds him scummy. Not a strong point
I just laid out all my thoughts, but I have some free time now, I guess I could reread someone. liopoil? Lets do liopoil.
49 posts, 9 of them pre game.
-Criticizes RVS. I agree with this.
-Says ge would have chosen Eevee and MGP
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten . I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)
This was when liopoil himself only had posted theory and nothing about individual players.
-As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.
uh-oh, I think we can break the game by paraphrasing the flavour in our second PM. (or at least make one IC). This is kinda similar to the station-aligned thing in DS9. I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....
This was liopoil's idea but for me it's a null tell as scum could propose it quite easily knowing the mods wouldn't let it happen.
Interestingly liopoils 15th post (I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.
) is the first one where he comments anything on any other player (instead of strategy, theory or jokes or praising how fast the game is moving).
-Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sense
just noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
Good point in my opinion.
-what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.
Town points for this. The MGP witchhunt was running rampant (for no good reason imo), and mafia could have wanted to fan the flames by staying out of it or even joining them mob (assuming MGP is town).
-Suspects me but wants to hold off from voting so that his vote will eventually mean more.
At this point he does the reread and puts some thoughts down on people and I agree with most of the conclusions / point he makes. Comparing our lists, mine (top to bottom scum)
mail-mi
liopoil
ashersky
sudgy
mcmc
Robz
yuma
MGP
nkirbit
AHoppy
spiritbears
and his
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
we seem to mostly agree. So, had I reread him before that big post, I would have been seriously suspected him for posting a lot but never saying anything until now, but it makes sense to need a reread to form an opinion so I'm fine with him now. Don't get a townread from anything, but not a scummy feel either. I'd move him to the middle of the pack in an updated list. Liopoil, I'd advice you to try to avoid just talking theory and taking more stances on people even without rereads (as the situations arise). The cautious way you've been playing (no voting at all!) makes it seem like you are trying to stay out of trouble.
Funny eevee did liopoil and in the end came to the conclusion, liopoil is a!!!! null read…really after all that, throw in some coaching at the end and you’ve got an obvi scum team chatting away.
Now, that scumpair is more likely in my mind than most others, but that's still gotta be very unlikely.
the things on robz are adding up though:
- weird play this game, highlighted by yuma.
- likely to be chosen by scum
- the sequence ashersky pointed out
- flip on spiritbears
- not knowing scum chose partners, but knowing we don't know what PRs there are.
worried that it's likely both robz and mail-mi are town. It isn't too late to look elsewhere yet, but it will be soon.
Didn’t you yell at me for calling a scum team(I know you said it was unlikely) but really
mail-mi (3): Eevee, sudgy, ashersky
Robz (3): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): yuma
aHoppy (1): Robz888
Not voting: AHoppy, xeiron, liopoil
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Updated. So with yuma and liopoil changing/unvoting, they've successfully derailed our most likely lynch options right before the soft deadline. Good job scum!
Yup they did, something to always look at is how people moved wagons during mid day, I hold scum wants to make a ton of useless wagons.
Vote: sudgy
Vote: sudgy Didn't realize the mail-mi wagon died like that. Sort of weird that, uh?
Don't support the aHoppy suspicion, just come back to sud-gee Robz!
Eevee and liopoil voting and starting the push to sudgy(easy mislynch)
Really guys, robz is town, eevee is right 100% about him. I have heard him talk about ds9 and samurai's in which he was NOT happy with his partners D1 play, also I don't even think he's being crazy scummy, crazy but not scummy. Lastly so he's not helpful at scum hunting D1, very few are, most of the newbie blame it on not being used to bigger games early on, I use the I'm terrible as town excuse, many of us are terrible unhelpful scum hunters d1. Some games were great. Robz just doesn't care to make an excuse because excuses get you lynched(bad for town) being outlandish and creating reaction(good for town) so ugh, don't lynch him.
Next OMG liopoil is scum...
Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.
gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
So here was my case on liopoil, I still think it’s a great case, especially knowing robz is town and was playing scummy, liopoil moved his read on him a bunch because he knew he was town.
A quick skim puts nkirbit and lio in scummy positions on the Robz wagon, I think.
Robz's reveal doesn't really affect the mail-mi read.
I will go on record as saying this shouldn't give Eevee a billion towncred points.
Agree
This is such a weasely, scummy post.
Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
Yup, glad you did and continued to push that town lynch through, it worked.
I chose you because you're the IC. I didn't even notice that you weren't advocating my lynch.
Comeon. That's just not believeable
Intent to vote Sudgy. But I'd like a count first so I don't quickhammer plz
Why was sudgy lynched when his wagon was CLEARLY scum driven and thus he was town. Why so quick to want to hammer when people were kinda like hes probably scum.
Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Oooh scummy claim push. As well as smart town sudgy not letting scum get a free claim.
agree that scum should claim VT sometimes. VT claim does make me a bit nervous, but I still like this lynch.
Scum liopoil and I agrued quite a bit over claiming, his opinion is scum should claim, here he says scum might claim vt and then says hes worried about the vt claim(does he think its actually a vt then?) but still likes the lynch. Sorry that’s just an all over the place post.
Vote: Sudgy
I hope we're right.
Scummy hammer, glad you were nk’d and I didn’t have to tunnel you all day and instead I can get scum liopoil lynched.
Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
Good old wagon analysis, totally think on wagon is the scummy spot for both wagons, late on robz wagon/early on sudgies. Sudgies was forced through, robz took time to grow and almost ended quick that exactly where you find scum.
I'be generally preferred toblook off wagon when we HAVE a goodbkynch and on wagon when we miss.
But mire specifically, look at who has been helpful and who haasnt pulled weight is where I'm looking. Mc has not played a good game whether he's town or not. Even if Lio flips scum whst had he added to out efforts? Mai as well, sure he has been a heavy target, but such a minimal defense for the number one lynch target most of the game
And while I'm at it. Robzzz hasn't lead us at all as IC and I wouldn't expect that to change. We HAVE to find scum on our own. If we wait for his leadership it will be too late.
So vote mc
Remember, he KNEW robz was town. Insisted he knew. He knew because he wasn't me thinks.
I also just knew robz was town because it was obvious, he doesn’t play scum like that. I agree I have played crappy(sorry) but I think lio flipping scum will be extremely helpful and due to me so I will gloat and take credit at that time thank you very much.
I do think a vote: mom salon is in order.
Scummy, too easy.
My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. 
How do you read mcmc this game?
And sb?
Sb def town. Mcmc not so sure.
Agree on sb. Nothing in his ways has changed from any previous game and (no offense sb) I think we will notice a difference when he's scum.
Scum read on mcmc, interested to see more activity from him.
Can you guys explain the townread on sb a bit more, I am open to it I think I have trouble reading him.
oooooooohkay, vote: liopoil still totally think he is scum.
Oh man, this is terrible. Let me show you why:
ugh robz claimed something... i will reread tomorow
I will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.
These posts show that you have not been paying attention at all this game. IF you are not paying attention, how in the world can you have solid reads, when you haven't even noticed:
Robz is Cady Heron, your Student body-aligned New Kid.
You're last post of day 1 was over a day and a half before the actual end of day 1.
You are not caught up, you have not read, and you have not looked at anyone besides myself. Please place informed votes, thanks.
And man, I kinda lean town on mcmc because of that, because scum!mcmc would know what was going on and wouldn't place votes like that.
Hehehe sorry this makes me soo giddy because I have felt this way before. What he is really saying “omg mcmc you’re a jerk for finding me out on nothing, your not even posting/reading, why don’t you just drop it. I’ll call him out because only scum would tunnel and make no case. Though it’s mcmc he always tries really hard as scum and is obvi town here. Fine…I…have…a…town…read…on…mcmc.
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Topic: Mafia XXV: Mean Girls (Fourth Quarter) (Read 200451 times)