/in
/in
Also, I've never seen this movie. I hope that's okay.
/in
Also, I've never seen this movie. I hope that's okay.
Wait, what movie????
Also, the D1 lynch will be determined by a quiz on the movie so...study hard, friend, study hard.This statement has been certified as "probably true"
I'm like SO in, omg!
/in
Also, I've never seen this movie. I hope that's okay.
Well, you have time before the game opens. Also, the D1 lynch will be determined by a quiz on the movie so...study hard, friend, study hard.
This is a twelve player game and mafia will be allowed to pick their partners.
This is a twelve player game and mafia will be allowed to pick their partners.
Who ever is made mafia first should make Robz their mafia partner... I hear he hasn't been mafia enough lately...
Only if it helps the town!/in
Also, I've never seen this movie. I hope that's okay.
Well, you have time before the game opens. Also, the D1 lynch will be determined by a quiz on the movie so...study hard, friend, study hard.
I look forward to being lynched on D1 then.
prediction: yuma is lynched D1.prediction: If he isn't scum, he's the default nightkill.
prediction: yuma is lynched D1.prediction: If he isn't scum, he's the default nightkill.
prediction: yuma is lynched D1.prediction: If he isn't scum, he's the default nightkill.
Hey! You guys be nice! This is just like high school all over again...
nooo, they'll want to get him lynched by making people think that he would have been chosen!Or would they?
True. shall we all make our cases for why scum should pick us then? :DNaw. I'd rather lie about why I'm not scum when the game starts.
Man I really want to play but I need to /out for now, I am way to busy for mafia atm. I just moved into my new house am starting a new job, and pretty much switching from school(20 hrs of class/work a week) to real life(70 hrs a week of work/housekeeping)
Man I really want to play but I need to /out for now, I am way to busy for mafia atm. I just moved into my new house am starting a new job, and pretty much switching from school(20 hrs of class/work a week) to real life(70 hrs a week of work/housekeeping)
Well now I'm picturing you in a french maid costume...thanks.
Also, doesn't look like this is opening anytime soon so keep us in mind :)
Of course, ill /in the minute I think I'll have time. I guess I'm sure I would have time just not as much as would like to have, I take this game as a pretty serious commitment.
/in
/inGreat!
My brother just recommended this forum.. I've played in person, but never online before. Looking forward to it! :D
Yep! He's done a game or two so far - I think - and enjoyed them.Brother of an IC. Scumtell.
His name's Twistedarcher.
I've never played mafia on here, but I figure a normal game is where I should start outWelcome!
/in
Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
The "links" in the OP aren't links. Just plain text. But I will check out those other links. Thanks everyone!Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
Look at the OP, it has rules, and links to the mafia wiki.
The "links" in the OP aren't links. Just plain text. But I will check out those other links. Thanks everyone!Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
Look at the OP, it has rules, and links to the mafia wiki.
The "links" in the OP aren't links. Just plain text. But I will check out those other links. Thanks everyone!Since I've never played, could someone point me towards some resources for how you guys play on here? I've only played IRL, and I can imagine it's much different here
Look at the OP, it has rules, and links to the mafia wiki.
Oh my. Raerae, you should probably fix those.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is my first time co-modding. Can anyone give me some tips?
I can't do it, I just keep checking the thread hoping its not full because I don't want to miss it then I realized it was going to come to a point in time where there was one spot left and I...just...don't...have...yea /in
Basically, I'll just do the things, then let y'all take the credit.;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is my first time co-modding. Can anyone give me some tips?
Oh honey, it's my first time modding. Just hang tight and hope for the best! :)
Basically, I'll just do the things, then let y'all take the credit.;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is my first time co-modding. Can anyone give me some tips?
Oh honey, it's my first time modding. Just hang tight and hope for the best! :)
I was all excited that we only needed one more but then I saw archetype was listed twice :( anyway, close enough to full, so you might as well send me my PM.
I was all excited that we only needed one more but then I saw archetype was listed twice :( anyway, close enough to full, so you might as well send me my PM.Darn. You're right. I thought raerae had taken me out.
I was all excited that we only needed one more but then I saw archetype was listed twice :( anyway, close enough to full, so you might as well send me my PM.Darn. You're right. I thought raerae had taken me out.
Oh I haven't seen the movie either...
I haven't seen the movie, so I won't in, but I'm available to sub.
Oh I haven't seen the movie either...
I haven't either. I don't think it matters.
Yeah, I haven't either, but have heard a lot about it. you should play!
join now and get a PM right away! (well, soon afterwards at least).I was all excited that we only needed one more but then I saw archetype was listed twice :( anyway, close enough to full, so you might as well send me my PM.
Don't you mean:
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31021317.jpg)
Why is everybody looking at me? Just because i'm smart doesn't mean im a nerd.That's pretty mean. And not very smartish.
Oh yeah, and vote: nkirbit for being a newbie.
If Kanto were a highschool, and Pokemon students, this: (http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/e/e2/133Eevee.png) would definitely be a Plastic.
Vote: Eevee
So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
This is a twelve player game and mafia will be allowed to pick their partners.
Scum picked the least obvious person. Who is the least obvious person?
Scum picked the least obvious person. Who is the least obvious person?
Newbie, right? So nkirbit or AHoppy. Maybe mgp?
Scum picked the least obvious person. Who is the least obvious person?I think that would be you. After all no one would expect the obiousr choice right?
Good point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
3 mafia out of 12 seems fitting, yes. Still somewhat relevant if they did it popcorn-style or if one guy picked both partners, as if there was only one guy picking, I'd expect him often to pick people from different "categories".
mcmc is sort of an under the radar scum mastermind too, he is a very potential recruit I would think (not too obvious but is known to pull strong performances).
I mean no offense to anyone here (or in any of these analysis posts), but I think we are middling because we are very experienced and won't (usually) screw up majorly, but we aren't the best either. "Safe choice", not a big risk like someone newer you don't know anything about, but not like yuma or Robz who probably run Cosa Nostra for a living or something. In the middle of the wifom-spectrum.Good point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
Why am I middling? Why are you? Granted, I'm a terrible choice for scum partner, given my penchant for somehow being seen as super scummy, but I thought I had a fair chance at being picked.
I definitely would have gone with vet over newbie, I think. Even with a night to plan and get to know someone in a QT, a partner you already know is going to be better, I think.
I agree. Well, I think there are three categories. "The most obvious" "middles" "the newer unknown players". If one guy did the picking, I'd expect him to pick from two different categories.3 mafia out of 12 seems fitting, yes. Still somewhat relevant if they did it popcorn-style or if one guy picked both partners, as if there was only one guy picking, I'd expect him often to pick people from different "categories".
mcmc is sort of an under the radar scum mastermind too, he is a very potential recruit I would think (not too obvious but is known to pull strong performances).
Ooh, mcmc, good call. He's definitely on the radar. With a three-man team, you go vet + newbie, right? Spread out the wifom.
How about we all say who we think everyone would choose to be their partner?
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?
But dunno, probably very random and dependant on the mood at the moment. Like, I doubt I would actually have thought about it much on the spot.
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?
because ashersky said "their partner" not "their partners"
If I picked another it would probably be you, eevee, or mcmc or lio.
I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
How about we all say who we think everyone would choose to be their partner?
For once I actually think this is something that would benefit town and has no benefit to scum so I will participate.
I would have picked ashersky so that we could bicker and fight like an old couple all game long like usual and everyone would just chalk it up to me and ashersky fighting like usual.
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?
because ashersky said "their partner" not "their partners"
If I picked another it would probably be you, eevee, or mcmc or lio.
Can we be sure of scum numbers? 3-4/13 is standard (see my C9++ games), so maybe high for 12. Definitely 2 or 3. If someone could enlighten us, that'd be great.
I would have chosen Eevee, I think. A reunion from MAII. For a third, I think someone no one would associate with me, but that I know well from modding, like mail-mi or Lio.
Game set-up (mostly) closed. This is a twelve player game and mafia will be allowed to pick their partners. There will be three rounds of PMs pre-game and each player will receive one PM per round. Once again, anybody who hints at or claims their flavor name, will be mod-expelled.
I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
How did you not realize this? What did you think those three PMs were all about then? You know the ones that you had to keep confirming?
Does anyone else find this post odd? Especially after this post:So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
Where it is apparent that Robz had read through the game setup because he knows we don't know what PRs are in the game.
vote: Robz
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?
because ashersky said "their partner" not "their partners"
If I picked another it would probably be you, eevee, or mcmc or lio.
Can we be sure of scum numbers? 3-4/13 is standard (see my C9++ games), so maybe high for 12. Definitely 2 or 3. If someone could enlighten us, that'd be great.
I would have chosen Eevee, I think. A reunion from MAII. For a third, I think someone no one would associate with me, but that I know well from modding, like mail-mi or Lio.QuoteGame set-up (mostly) closed. This is a twelve player game and mafia will be allowed to pick their partners. There will be three rounds of PMs pre-game and each player will receive one PM per round. Once again, anybody who hints at or claims their flavor name, will be mod-expelled.
Well pick their "partners" and the three rounds of PMs seems to indicate 3 scum.
Knowledge of a scum qt and planning timeGood point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
Why am I middling? Why are you? Granted, I'm a terrible choice for scum partner, given my penchant for somehow being seen as super scummy, but I thought I had a fair chance at being picked.
I definitely would have gone with vet over newbie, I think. Even with a night to plan and get to know someone in a QT, a partner you already know is going to be better, I think.
I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
How did you not realize this? What did you think those three PMs were all about then? You know the ones that you had to keep confirming?
Does anyone else find this post odd? Especially after this post:So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
Where it is apparent that Robz had read through the game setup because he knows we don't know what PRs are in the game.
vote: Robz
That makes two then. I thought it was just flavor alsoI didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
How did you not realize this? What did you think those three PMs were all about then? You know the ones that you had to keep confirming?
Does anyone else find this post odd? Especially after this post:So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
Where it is apparent that Robz had read through the game setup because he knows we don't know what PRs are in the game.
vote: Robz
I clicked over to page 1, scanned it for a list of PRs, found none, and gave up. I thought the three PMs thing was flavor related.
I'm an idiot.
I should note that "play dumb" is a valid tactic that even vets have used. Yuma tried it in Mafia XIX. I called him out for it repeatedly.
Quote from: ashersky loverlook c=8000.msg240592#msg240592 date=1368446053Knowledge of a scum qt and planning timeGood point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
Why am I middling? Why are you? Granted, I'm a terrible choice for scum partner, given my penchant for somehow being seen as super scummy, but I thought I had a fair chance at being picked.
I definitely would have gone with vet over newbie, I think. Even with a night to plan and get to know someone in a QT, a partner you already know is going to be better, I think.
And trying to get us to overlook soon-to-come scummy actions ( "somehow being seen as super scummy") as just our predisposition to think him scummy (I had no such predisposition)
vote:ash
Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ash
Yeah I'd say out of those two votes, ashersky's was clearly clearly worse..
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
What's up with the wagon on me? Man, you do one thing last year and suddenly every body's on you.
I should note that "play dumb" is a valid tactic that even vets have used. Yuma tried it in Mafia XIX. I called him out for it repeatedly.
What's up with the wagon on me? Man, you do one thing last year and suddenly every body's on you.
Do you mean last game? What happened?
I should note that "play dumb" is a valid tactic that even vets have used. Yuma tried it in Mafia XIX. I called him out for it repeatedly.
Hi everyone!
FWIW, in the movie....there is one central "mean girl" and two followers. BUT...(here's the interesting part), the socially-awkward lead character [Lindsay Lohan] joins their group in the middle of the movie to try to sabotage them. She starts to become one of them, being mean, and then she realizes the error of her ways...after becoming homecoming queen, no less. (Haha, this movie is better than I am making it seem in summary.)
Okay, let's see what people have responded to my question:
yuma: ashersky
ashersky: Eevee, mail-mi/lio
mail-mi: ?
Eevee: mcmc, mgp
liopoil: ?
Robz888: ?
nkirbit: ?
AHoppy: ?
modestguineapig: ?
mcmcsalot: ?
spiritbears: ?
sudgy: Robz888 (joke?)
So, not a lot of responses so far.
Also, I'll note that mcmc has yet to post in this game. I know he's got a new busy schedule, so hopefully he shows up soon.
Okay, let's see what people have responded to my question:
yuma: ashersky
ashersky: Eevee, mail-mi/lio
mail-mi: yuma, newbie
Eevee: mcmc, mgp
liopoil: Eevee, mgp
Robz888: ?
nkirbit: random, being new
AHoppy: ?
modestguineapig: ?
mcmcsalot: ?
spiritbears: ?
sudgy: Robz888 (joke?)
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.Sorry, this is like my fourth game and I think I've only played in one that had a qt. A couple of those were bastard games and the real bastardy one had multiple qts. So I have only played one partial real mafia game (with one scum (Mc)) and there was no qt that I know about in it
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.Sorry, this is like my fourth game and I think I've only played in one that had a qt. A couple of those were bastard games and the real bastardy one had multiple qts. So I have only played one partial real mafia game (with one scum (Mc)) and there was no qt that I know about in it
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
But all this is all kindof besides the point. My better argument (and the one Ash is really avoiding and probably the reason why he omagus'd was it was close to right on.....he is preemptively making excuses for scum behavior (ie his omagus vote) "everyone always thinks I'm scummy".....so my vote stands
1&2 are opinions. Not fact. And they are yours alone. You are not a bad target at this point. Really no-one is.Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.Sorry, this is like my fourth game and I think I've only played in one that had a qt. A couple of those were bastard games and the real bastardy one had multiple qts. So I have only played one partial real mafia game (with one scum (Mc)) and there was no qt that I know about in it
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
But all this is all kindof besides the point. My better argument (and the one Ash is really avoiding and probably the reason why he omagus'd was it was close to right on.....he is preemptively making excuses for scum behavior (ie his omagus vote) "everyone always thinks I'm scummy".....so my vote stands
"Everyone always thinks I'm scummy" is not an excuse for scummy behavior. And excuse for scummy behavior would be "oh, didn't realize the set-up has mafia picking its partners" or "huh, didn't realize all games use QTs." Those are excuses. Everyone thinks I'm scummy is a fact.
I know you are new, and you've never been in a "regular" game with me (I'm not counting eHal's craziness). But go read like every single game ever. Bankers just ended -- there's a good example of me being super town but misread as super scummy. It's just the way it is.
It's early in the game, we're all looking for the little things right now. You are (wrongly) doing that, which is good. One thing I've noticed about you, though, is that you like to vote for someone, and then keep it there forever, even when it's clearly not the best vote. That's something I've noticed from modding and reading.
Okay, let's see what people have responded to my question:
yuma: ashersky
ashersky: Eevee, mail-mi/lio
mail-mi: yuma, newbie
Eevee: mcmc, mgp
liopoil: Eevee, mgp
Robz888: ?
nkirbit: random, being new
AHoppy: ?
modestguineapig: ?
mcmcsalot: ?
spiritbears: ?
sudgy: Robz888 (joke?)
Updated. Eevee and mgp in the lead for this popularity contest. (Does that fit the flavor?)
yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
yuma: ashersky, mcmc/lio
ashersky: Eevee, mail-mi/lio
mail-mi: yuma, newbie
Eevee: mcmc, mgp
liopoil: Eevee, mgp
Robz888: liopoil
nkirbit: random, being new
AHoppy: ?
modestguineapig: Eevee, AHoppy
mcmcsalot: ?
spiritbears: ?
sudgy: Robz888 (joke?)
I think the only game MGP is in is still ongoing, so actually no, we cant' give you a rundown.
Ashersky, "super towny" might be bit of a stretch about your play in bankers beware..
Actually these longer "more analytical" posts (which I find better as a town playing style) are actually a trait I attribute to scum ashersky. Vote: ashersky, only semi-rvs.
yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
Also, hilarious that you now think I'm being "better town." Here's the formula for town!ashersky: post a lot, suggest some sort of claiming scheme, gain lots of suspicion, self-vote, unvote, get called out for unvoting the self-vote, self-vote again, catch scum but fail to be believed. Next time I'm scum, I'm going to try and fake it.
yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
Also, hilarious that you now think I'm being "better town." Here's the formula for town!ashersky: post a lot, suggest some sort of claiming scheme, gain lots of suspicion, self-vote, unvote, get called out for unvoting the self-vote, self-vote again, catch scum but fail to be believed. Next time I'm scum, I'm going to try and fake it.
I laughed at this, then realized in almost every game I've been in with you or read with you, it's true.
I'm here!
So a few things, yall need to watch the movie(not really)
The scum are "the plastics"(the hot fake girls) There are three of them. One is a ringleader, the other two are her dumb minions.
The town is most likely has power roles based off of the "good" main characters. The main three characters who are not the plastics are an emo girl a gay guy and the new chick(lindsey lohan)
Bit of story, lindsey is really smart hangs out with the "losers", lindsey is also really hot and gets noticed by the plastics. The losers then devise a plan to destroy the plastics from the inside by turning lindsey into one of them. Middling storyline has potential game related material
This backfires as indsey love love loves being noticed and actually becomes a plastic. Ending part probably not relevant A book of the plastics evil thoughts gets out and the whole movie turns into a lesson about bullying Really not necessarily Lindsey tries to apologize to the main plastic who gets hit by a bus and everyone thinks lindsey pushed her, the end.
Like I said the important part is that the lindsey character may be able to win with either/may be a traitor/may be a spy in the mafia qt.
Like I said the important part is that the lindsey charactermay be able to win with either/may be a traitor/may be a spy in the mafia qt.
yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
For a newbie, this person is making a lot of sense.
Side question: are you TA's brother?
Also, hilarious that you now think I'm being "better town." Here's the formula for town!ashersky: post a lot, suggest some sort of claiming scheme, gain lots of suspicion, self-vote, unvote, get called out for unvoting the self-vote, self-vote again, catch scum but fail to be believed. Next time I'm scum, I'm going to try and fake it.
I laughed at this, then realized in almost every game I've been in with you or read with you, it's true.
Of course, my big fear now is if I stop some of the not-so-constructive parts of this, I'll be called scummy. Like, if I don't self-vote at some point during the first three days, will I get called out for it?
I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
A traitor spy? Like, they can see the QT, not post, but if they get targeted for a night kill they get recruited and can post in the QT?
I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).
I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.
Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ash
Really?Yeah I'd say out of those two votes, ashersky's was clearly clearly worse..
You are kidding, right?Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
At least Robz makes a good point.
He could be confused town. Or his vet partner(s) that he chose coached him to play up newbieness for town cred. I can see Robz/Yuma/mcmc (especially mcmc!) suggesting that in a QT during pre game.
I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).
I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.
yes traitor I doubt, survivor/win with any I can see
No, that's traitor. Survivor just has to live till the end to win.I'm all for discussing this of course! If the first player chosen has a say in who the third player is then this is certainly helpful (unless ANOTHER person who doesn't know anybody is chosen). But I agree, everyone should comment on this I think.yeah, if one of MGP, ahoppy, or nkirbit is the randomly chosen scum then this is all worthless.
I disagree.
I disagree as well. First of all, we aren't exactly sure the process the selection went through. Was it A pick B and C, or A pick B, then A+B pick C? If it's the second, the list still matters if MGP, Ahoppy, or I were chosen. Even if it wasn't, it's still good info to have, and it's something constructive to discuss, which is plenty for D1.
Once we have lynched a plastic we won't be able to analyze who they would have chosen, because we probably won't know if they became scum in the first, second, or third PM. (that's assuming one player became scum each round of PMs, which might not be true).
I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.
yes traitor I doubt, survivor/win with any I can see
What is survivor/win? Someone who is chosen to be night-killed becomes mafia?
I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)
What is survivor/win? Someone who is chosen to be night-killed becomes mafia?
Okay I believe I was asked to say who I would be scum with.
Man this would be a really hard decision, I would probably say:
Robz/eevee: I have won with both these guys, picking my brother is just too obvious a choice not to make.
Honorable mention of yuma: really respect his scum play and would love to be on his team.
The if I had more time strategy: ash/spiritbears: way to good a team for sending mixed signals, I have in previous games defended spirit very hard, I would do the same, defend him like crazy anytime he got suspected and if I got suspected I would pull a low blow and say it's because I really think I understand him better than most and that people are stupid for suspecting him when hes obviously town and has a different damn approach than you #Oscar speeches. Ash is necessary for the strategy because that man finds a way to be so scummy yet triple everyone's post counts aand be town. I cant see robz/eevee/yuma voting out three crazy vocal players like that. Did I mention I like winning....
That's me for sure.Really liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)
I think some of us were in mafia game withdrawal and now we're compensating!
yeah, even 3/12 is tough. according to http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=The_EV_Project, in a game with 3 goons and 9 VTs town only has a 16.4% chance of winning. and believe it or not, even with just TWO scum, town still only has a 35.2% chance. (this is given random lynch).I really doubt there is a traitor. 4/12 players being anti-town is really tough.
4/12 would be insanely hard, given 3/12 is already though, as I noted earlier.
At 4/12, can we even mislynch twice? 4 vs 8 becomes 4 vs 6 on D2 if we mislynch and mafia NKs. A mislynch and NK puts it at 4 vs 4, and we lose. I mean, it can't be 4 scum in 12. It wouldn't be fair.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
That's sort of what I was shooting for with my Mean Girls game but I really wanted a three person scum team and that math doesn't work out so well.
I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum. As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum. Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner. Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.I knew I remembered something! valuable info this is!! granted this is from a while ago so it may have changed.
Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
oh dont want this to go away, quoted it up. This is spirit we are talking about(no offense) the guy has a history with being confused town. And that ash omgus very scummy.
Digging way back in the mafia game index:That's sort of what I was shooting for with my Mean Girls game but I really wanted a three person scum team and that math doesn't work out so well.I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum. As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum. Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner. Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.I knew I remembered something! valuable info this is!! granted this is from a while ago so it may have changed.
Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
I disagree. It's meaningless now to me, for sure, but when players start to get lynched and killed, this could be useful information to look back on. On the otherhand, it could be worthless, but it's so easy to do, so why not?
oh dont want this to go away, quoted it up. This is spirit we are talking about(no offense) the guy has a history with being confused town. And that ash omgus very scummy.
Purposefully or not, this defense of spiritbears lines up with your own reasons for why you would choose spiritbears as a scum partner.
Actually, my "argument" with sb, (which I don't see as an argument--he thought he saw something scumy about me and voted, I thought it was a scummy reason to vote, it was at least an interaction that will exist for analysis when needed) would fit your mcmc-ash-sb team narrative well. SB gets newbie cred, I get normal ash seems scummy vibes, you get to defend sb. My head just exploded from your wifom.
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
Digging way back in the mafia game index:That's sort of what I was shooting for with my Mean Girls game but I really wanted a three person scum team and that math doesn't work out so well.I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum. As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum. Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner. Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.I knew I remembered something! valuable info this is!! granted this is from a while ago so it may have changed.
Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.
Nice! So reading this, it's A pick B, B pick C? It's not 100% clear to me.
As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.uh-oh, I think we can break the game by paraphrasing the flavour in our second PM. (or at least make one IC). This is kinda similar to the station-aligned thing in DS9. I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....
So what does everyone think about Lio's idea to no-lynch Day1? If we can't do any better than a guess, I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to it. My only worry is that if we decide to no-lynch too early, it might lead to a loss in meaningful discussion that would be harmful because it would lessen the chance that scum could slip up. I'm just not sure of it, I suppose.It wasn't really my idea... It was something I thought worth noting, but like I explained I am very much opposed to it.
What do you all think?
Where does self-voting ashersky fit? I take offense at you not agreeing that I was super towny in Bankers Beware. I called the scum team...eventually. You know, when you (well, not Eevee) mislynched me. Had we lynched raerae as I proposed, she never would have gotten the double VK and we would have won (I believe).
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile. Like I said. Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us
I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....play mafia, don't break mafia. Now it's been addressed.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Okay :DI think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....play mafia, don't break mafia. Now it's been addressed.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
I disagree. It's meaningless now to me, for sure, but when players start to get lynched and killed, this could be useful information to look back on. On the otherhand, it could be worthless, but it's so easy to do, so why not?
This. The reason I suggested we do it is not to figure anything out right now, but to be able to look at the lists when we have more information (hopefully dead scum). It's for looking back at, not finding scum on the list.
Although, if we were going to choose someone at random, the person who's name shows up the most is probably better than true random. But, really, no random. (Although the one time we random lynched on D1, one scum picked his partner as the random lynch and it went through.)
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile. Like I said. Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us
So what does everyone think about Lio's idea to no-lynch Day1?
...
What do you all think?
So what does everyone think about Lio's idea to no-lynch Day1?
...
What do you all think?
NO
So what does everyone think about Lio's idea to no-lynch Day1?
...
What do you all think?
NO
Lol we really do aaaalways have this discussion.
So what does everyone think about Lio's idea to no-lynch Day1?
...
What do you all think?
NO
Lol we really do aaaalways have this discussion.
With regards to who I would choose as my partners:
I'm in the same boat as nkirbit. I would probably have some more fun with it though, like go back through Isotropic rankings and generate a random number weighting players with a higher level... I don't feel like going back and doing that right now, so just assume I would pick randomly.
and now that we actually are having a discussion about things, i'm going to have to
Unvote
and go back and re-read all the arguments once I have more time. So probably tomorrow.
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile. Like I said. Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us
yay... now I am a bully again?
Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.
So while I don't like his answer, I respect it and feel inclined to move on, but I am guessing some parts of town won't want to.
So while I don't like his answer, I respect it and feel inclined to move on, but I am guessing some parts of town won't want to.
I do. I think that this is all going to end up as a bunch of WIFOM stuff, but other's dont.
So while I don't like his answer, I respect it and feel inclined to move on, but I am guessing some parts of town won't want to.
I do. I think that this is all going to end up as a bunch of WIFOM stuff, but other's dont.
I agree with this, but it still could help. And, of course, it's made for a lot of discussion.
Have we heard from all the kids here yet? Seems like we are missing a few...everyone has posted
Ok. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
How did you not realize this? What did you think those three PMs were all about then? You know the ones that you had to keep confirming?
Does anyone else find this post odd? Especially after this post:So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.
Where it is apparent that Robz had read through the game setup because he knows we don't know what PRs are in the game.
vote: Robz
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.
Robz doesn't do RVS...
I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.
if robz did RVS, then Yuma would also do RVS, then suddenly we're just 5 RVS votes away from RLS!Robz doesn't do RVS...
It does stand for Robz Voting Stage, usually...
That's pretty much what I meant, yeah.I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.
I think his adamant stance on not answering the question is anti-town. Anti-town doesn't = scummy, though.
Ok. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
at least there is nothing to mass (flavor or role or map) claim this time
I think Yuma is probably a safe town read, and I remembered he was on robz early...likely for a good reasonOk. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
Why do you want Yuma's case, as opposed to anyone elses? How do you know Yuma isn't scum?
I think Yuma is probably a safe town read, and I remembered he was on robz early...likely for a good reasonOk. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
Why do you want Yuma's case, as opposed to anyone elses? How do you know Yuma isn't scum?
Together with his flip on me that's enough for me to join the wagon
vote:robz
I guess this is an honor of sorts? Not scum though, please don't lynch me!Maybe I am. But I don't think so. All I'm saying is his case + the robz switch on me are good enough for me to join the wagon. I do have a town read on him, but I'm always willing to listen to a reasonable case.
spirit, I think you are trusting yuma a little too much. Now, I don't disagree with your conclusion, the Robz case is better than anything we've seen yet (well, I acknowledge the merit on the "case" against me in that apparently people would pick me / at least they say they would pick me). It's wifom though, in would scum name their partner? Maybe this actually clears me and liopoil a bit?
I seem to be rambling, sleepy time.
HE's been pretty active and active with a purpose....scum hunting imoI think Yuma is probably a safe town read, and I remembered he was on robz early...likely for a good reasonOk. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
Why do you want Yuma's case, as opposed to anyone elses? How do you know Yuma isn't scum?
Together with his flip on me that's enough for me to join the wagon
vote:robz
What's your reasoning for this read? It's not one I share (I'm extremely neutral on Yuma atm)
HE's been pretty active and active with a purpose....scum hunting imoI think Yuma is probably a safe town read, and I remembered he was on robz early...likely for a good reasonOk. But I unvoted kooshie
Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all
Why do you want Yuma's case, as opposed to anyone elses? How do you know Yuma isn't scum?
Together with his flip on me that's enough for me to join the wagon
vote:robz
What's your reasoning for this read? It's not one I share (I'm extremely neutral on Yuma atm)
I haven't seen anything from him I would label as scummy at all. Are you saying I missed something?
Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
Yeah. He then followed that up with vote for me. I don't understand Mc's game here...Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.Exactly what did I do that was "shady". You are far out on the proverbial limb....
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.again, anti-town is not the same as scummy. We should certainly lynch scummy players. If we don't lynch scummy players who do we lynch? anti-town players, not necessarily. For people we believe to be playing anti-town we have to figure out if the anti-town play is intentional.
Exactly what did I do that was "shady". You are far out on the proverbial limb....I don't think we was referring to you, just people in general. and by shady he really just meant scummy I think.
Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?
mcmc, I don't understand what you are saying. MGP just said it's better to lynch a scummy person than a random person. That's true, obviously.Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.
vote: modestguineapig
Yes I thought that statement a little strange. But I dont feel like I have enough info on gp at this point to know whether he's confused town or scumslipping mafiaEevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.
vote: modestguineapig
Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?
Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!Now I'm really beginning to wonder about you. That is not at all how that went down. Are you twisting it as scum or just confused. Fos mgp
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.
This seemed shady to me. Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people? Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched. So it doesn't seem to matter much.
ppe: @mcmc, yeah I mentioned the random lynch because it was thrown around as an idea. I am saying I would rather lynch anti-town than random.
This seemed shady to me. Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people? Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched. So it doesn't seem to matter much.
I understand mgp is saying he would rather lynch anti town than random, but there is no reason to lynch random. Also this is specific because mgp is using the argument to lynch anti town(he voted sb) If he was saying don't lynch random he would not be voting for sb. I think at any time you want to lynch someone you think is mafia, which is better than someone who is anti town. Using the argument anti town is better than random is still detrimental to town(hence mgp being anti town himself by voting as such) though I think mgp put some thought into that and wanted to get a sb lynch to gain traction because he's being anti town and hey, "it's better than random"
I thought that the most scummy person is the person who is most likely to be mafia, just by nature of the term. So scummy means more like anti-town? but it doesn't really matter, I get the point and agree with it.Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?
It means (to me) that you should always try to lynch the player you think is most likely to be mafia, which isn't necessarily the person that is the most "scummy" to you. I think "lynch mafia, not anti-town" is a better way to put it, but it doesn't sound as good, and isn't necessarily what he means.
As an example, take xieron on D1 of Bankers. He quick-hammered, which is always a "scummy" move. Even though Kooshie turned out to be mafia, if xieron had survived N1, he would have taken a lot of heat on D2 from all of us. In the end, he was town though, so just because he made a scummy move, he wasn't mafia.
Annnnnnnnd, exactly WHO "threw out" the "random lynch" idea?????
Mgp that's the first I've heard if it. Scumslip I think
Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!Now I'm really beginning to wonder about you. That is not at all how that went down. Are you twisting it as scum or just confused. Fos mgp
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.
This seemed shady to me. Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people? Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched. So it doesn't seem to matter much.
ppe: @mcmc, yeah I mentioned the random lynch because it was thrown around as an idea. I am saying I would rather lynch anti-town than random.
what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.
Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.
This seemed shady to me. Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people? Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched. So it doesn't seem to matter much.
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
woah, this is a stretch, I usually hate argument saying x is scum because he is misrepresenting info, because hey townies do it all the time to get scum lynched you gotta build a good case which involves embellishment but man that is so not what happened.
what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
I'll take your response to be a "no idea" response and remember it for later.
No. I told you I didn't care for it, you correctly read it as "I don't know"
woah, this is a stretch, I usually hate argument saying x is scum because he is misrepresenting info, because hey townies do it all the time to get scum lynched you gotta build a good case which involves embellishment but man that is so not what happened.
I disagree about part of this. to get scum lynched you do not have to embellish. Not at all. Doing so is a great disservice to town because it provides an opportunity for scum to weasel out of something because it appears to be based off embellishment.
I do agree that town sometimes misrepresents info, accidentally. It happens. But to say that someone shouldn't be held accountable is wrong. I am not saying they should be lynched for it, but I think pressure needs to be applied and a gauge of their reaction should be taken. Scum embellishes all the time as well. I certainly have. The difference is that as scum it is often intentional, because you have to embellish as scum. As town it is accidental. Finding the difference is crucial, hence the pressure and the votes.
Alright, sorry for the paraphrase before... I was multitasking (playing Dominion with husband). Here is the actual quotes for any interested parties. I put my paraphrase underneath each quote.And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!I'll take your response to be a "no idea" response and remember it for later.
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.No. I told you I didn't care for it, you correctly read it as "I don't know"
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.
I'm not sure what I am being blamed for here. I don't feel my paraphrasing was biased or trying to misrepresent sb. Please tell me, sb, how you would paraphrase the above to accurately portray the situation, since I did such a terrible job. I did leave off the qualifier in yuma's first post. Simply put, I didn't remember it. Obviously, anyone can go back and see what was really said. My intention was not to mislead but to quickly reference the exchange.
I think lio has a grasp on what I was trying to convey. At this point, I don't see any strong scum candidates. So, at this point on D1 in lieu of a strong scum candidate, I am voting for an anti-town candidate.
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile. Like I said. Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us
There's a difference between scummy and anti-town, though. He was anti-town in both your shortened version and the actual events, and I don't think many people will deny that. There certainly would have been no good reason not to pick two people at random. It's just that I personally don't want to lynch based on anti-townness (and others have stated they feel the same)
Your version made SB appear a lot more scummy than he actually is, though. Your version implies that SB changed his mind about what he meant, when I think the full context shows that that's not what happened. In reality, SB was consistent about not caring for the question.
Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!
1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9
I didn't take out pre-game posts.
Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!Is that count right for mgp? She has 3 posts on this page alone. Robz low numbers stand out a little
1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9
I didn't take out pre-game posts.
Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!Is that count right for mgp? She has 3 posts on this page alone. Robz low numbers stand out a little
1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9
I didn't take out pre-game posts.
and yes, modest has 10 posts thus far. I count by going to the print screen utility and type "postsby: XXX" to pull up the number of posts quick and easy.
I noticed that as well but I think he is semi-vla... he said so somewhere... Nothing else really stood out to me.Ok. But when he has posted it has been a little off too though. (At least it seems so to me)
I'm very busy, and about to be even more busy for the next few days. Any questions for me?Yeah
I'm very busy, and about to be even more busy for the next few days. Any questions for me?Yeah
Why the big turnaround on me? And if not you, who should we be looking at?
But I did answer. I said I didn't know. Others said the same thing and you didn't "obvivote" them.I'm very busy, and about to be even more busy for the next few days. Any questions for me?Yeah
Why the big turnaround on me? And if not you, who should we be looking at?
Because you refused to help the town. You should interpet my vote as pressure: I want you to do the townie thing and answer questions.
Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile. Like I said. Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us
Btw
I keep seeing Mc's 4/4 stat and keep thinking, well that doesn't count the busted game...in which he was busted day one and his partner on thin ice......but for some stupidity on my behalf that should read 4/5!
No, you misunderstand Mc. And yes you were being very pushy, no doubt about that.Quote from: Robz888 link=topic=800hard itsg241503#msg241503 date=1368592983Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
Three pages during my not that long beauty sleep!I agree mgp is likely confused town (and her tunneling me for "not doing what I did" (peer pressure, lol) is just more of the same. (Out her ten posts, I think at least 3/4 are about my failure to "do exactly what I did). That said, I really don't appreciate her blatant misrepresentation, and will be keeping an eye on her for sure.
Fos at anyone voting for sb over that. Its pretty far-fetched to view that as a mafia action, it was like an epitome of a disinterested townie action (disinterested in that particular topic, not the game on the whole). Spirit is a medium-sized townread for me.
I absolutely don't understand the witch hunt against mgp. I think his reaction reads confused towny, and the mafianess of his actions is greatly overstated. if the deadline was pressing, I'd much rather try to lynch some under the radar noncontributor.
Now, I don't think that pressure is bad by any means, but it conflicts with pressuring the people we should be pressuring - under the radar middle contributors.
MGP isnt under the radar really, she seems to be quite willing to take stances. As she noted, most topics of discussion we've had this far have been such that she hasn't really been able to contribute.I think I agree with this. Anyone willing to tunnel that hard and that aggressively is probably not flying under the radar even if she started kindof late. I think robz with his quick hits (with little to no explanation and Sudgy are far more under the radar
No, you misunderstand Mc. And yes you were being very pushy, no doubt about that.Quote from: Robz888 link=topic=800hard itsg241503#msg241503 date=1368592983Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
But I'm calling bull Robz changing/shifting explanations and his description of what happened. He's flipflopped so hard it's unreal. And notice he doesn't want to answer the question who else we should be looking at. Dodge
Yes that is probably trueNo, you misunderstand Mc. And yes you were being very pushy, no doubt about that.Quote from: Robz888 link=topic=800hard itsg241503#msg241503 date=1368592983Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
But I'm calling bull Robz changing/shifting explanations and his description of what happened. He's flipflopped so hard it's unreal. And notice he doesn't want to answer the question who else we should be looking at. Dodge
Ah, I was confused, that is understandable, robz lack of answer is a tad frustrating though I do believe it is par for the course for robz regardless of alignment.
Also, it was my fault for not explaining my comment better. I was having s very rough night and it was all I could muster at the time, so I'm glad you let me explain myself today.No, you misunderstand Mc. And yes you were being very pushy, no doubt about that.Quote from: Robz888 link=topic=800hard itsg241503#msg241503 date=1368592983Yeah, but I didn't like the way you made it sounds like you were being persecuted.That is complete bull
But I'm calling bull Robz changing/shifting explanations and his description of what happened. He's flipflopped so hard it's unreal. And notice he doesn't want to answer the question who else we should be looking at. Dodge
Ah, I was confused, that is understandable, robz lack of answer is a tad frustrating though I do believe it is par for the course for robz regardless of alignment.
I would like the opinions of others on this matter...was I tunneling sb and "riding his wagon" hard?I think it's pretty easy to figure out, and you don't really need any backup on this, look at your post count, now how many of those were not about me/not answering the way you did....even after it has been explained to you why it's not a very good case for my comments being the work of mafia, you are still riding me.....
[Re: travel--I have not been to Switzerland, but I have found that customs take longer getting back into the States than into other countries. I think it depends on the "security threat" of the country you visited also. Coming back from Tanzania, I got grilled by the customs agent. Coming back from England, not so much. Sorry I'm not much help)
MGP isnt under the radar really, she seems to be quite willing to take stances. As she noted, most topics of discussion we've had this far have been such that she hasn't really been able to contribute.I think I agree with this. Anyone willing to tunnel that hard and that aggressively is probably not flying under the radar even if she started kindof late. I think robz with his quick hits (with little to no explanation and Sudgy are far more under the radar
unvote on mgp. I guess I am a bit surprised that so many people are strongly declaring both mgp and sb to be town... Seems like it is the cool thing to do.
At this juncture I don't have strong enough reads on anyone to even say that. For me, SB is a slight town read and mgp is more or less a null read--and as for your activity... I think you are doing fine and it wasn't my intent to say that you should be posting more. It was more that you were in the middle of the pack in regard to contributions, and that I thought you fit the bill for what eevee was describing as a middling under the radar player... not a lurker. There is a difference between that and a lurker.
As for your tunneling question: I don't think you were "tunneling" but I do think that at that time your sole focus was on him. For me tunneling is persistent and over an extended period of time while completely ignoring other solid other cases and rebuttles. This game has been going for only three days and isn't very long, nor have their been solid cases or responses.
Students:
1. Yuma
2. Ashersky
3. mail-mi
4. Eevee
5. liopoil
6. Robz888
7. nkirbit
8. AHoppy
9. modestguineapig
10. mcmcsalot
11. spiritbears
12. sudgy
(SB: I've been to the Zurich airport in Switzerland, and it was a breeze to get through. Passport control was extremely quick, everything in the airport was amazing. Your longest wait by far is going to be getting back to North America, I would guess).Thanks! Exactly when do you go through customs? When you depart or when you arrive?
No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?Oh come on. It's not like there s anything else going on in here.
No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?Oh come on. It's not like there s anything else going on in here.
I was being facetious. But really this game seems like it's not going anywhere until some of the low-shows get off the sideline or else we force them to....No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?Oh come on. It's not like there s anything else going on in here.
I agree. Let's keep this mafia focused. A post or two is ok. But if it is going to be a multi-post then I think you should move it to a PM. Just to keep out the clutter. I know you don't often do rereads, but for those of us that do, these sorts of posts can muck up the thread and make rereads a little bit more difficult. Moving it to a PM can't be that big of a hassle right?
as for there isn't anything else going on in here... well whose fault is that?
I was being facetious. But really this game seems like it's not going anywhere until some of the low-shows get off the sideline or else we force them to....No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?Oh come on. It's not like there s anything else going on in here.
I agree. Let's keep this mafia focused. A post or two is ok. But if it is going to be a multi-post then I think you should move it to a PM. Just to keep out the clutter. I know you don't often do rereads, but for those of us that do, these sorts of posts can muck up the thread and make rereads a little bit more difficult. Moving it to a PM can't be that big of a hassle right?
as for there isn't anything else going on in here... well whose fault is that?
facetious if fair. It is sometimes hard to see in a forum setting.
as for Robz... I still find him a bit scummy from the earlier stuff, but remember that he is semi-VLA. So don't expect a lot from him in the next day or so, vote or no vote.
ash... good analysis on the post count trends (I should note that you should expect less participation and thereby less leading from me as I am now working full time, but I will still try to be leader where I can be). I took a look at eevee and I thought his posts were as you said a bit on the "acti-lurking" side, I still kinda dislike that term though... He has buddied a bit, perhaps less than you say, but I did see some.
An interesting point about him: he thought TA was in this game when talking about who he would have chosen. This very slightly makes me think he is more town as I would expect mafia to give a very thorough read over in trying to pick partners. But it appears perhaps he didn't... Or maybe just forgot after he looked? Like I said it is very slight, but worth noting.
Since I am currently talking to you ash, what are your current reads? Say... top and bottom? I remember you voted for SB, is it still there or are you feeling elsewhere?
Actually, it is pretty funny how nobody has noticed me. Maybe I should start lurking ;)
facetious if fair. It is sometimes hard to see in a forum setting.Oh didnt know that. vote: Eevee then.
as for Robz... I still find him a bit scummy from the earlier stuff, but remember that he is semi-VLA. So don't expect a lot from him in the next day or so, vote or no vote.
Do we have a deadline? Haven't seen a vote count in awhile. I think this game has gotten off to a good start (regardless of some of you feeling maybe it's slowed down).
Since this game doesn't have bankable time (I think), do we really need a soft deadline? It should only be 3 days away from the hard deadline, at most.
Vote Count 1.4
spiritbears (1): modestguineapig
Eevee (3): nkirbit, mail-mi, spiritbears
Robz (1): sudgy
Ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting(3): Ahoppy, ashersky, Yuma
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Friday, May 24th at 8 p.m. Forum Time from the first day postOh thanks.
Sorry for the confusion everyone, the due date for Chapter 1 is Friday, May 24th at 8 p.m. Forum Time.
ashersky
spiritbears
yuma
liopoil
nkirbit
mcmcsalot
mail-mi
Eevee
Robz888
modestguineapig
sudgy
AHoppy
Here's a new post count, listing the players in order of posting frequency. This removes per-game posts.I'm kinda surprised that I'm near the high end, I feel like I haven't been contributing that much.
ashersky (51)
spiritbears (39)
yuma (32)
liopoil (25)
nkirbit (25)
mcmcsalot (21)
mail-mi (18)
Eevee (15)
Robz888 (14)
modestguineapig (10)
sudgy (8)
AHoppy (2)
only 9 people are listed in the vote count. Robz, mcmc, and I aren't listed.I think robz still on me, not sure where Mc is now. And have you voted Lio?
I have not voted. I think I'm gonna be more reserved in voting now, mainly only voting when it's for someone who I really am sure I'm willing to lynch. If I voted right now it would be for eevee.Well no one is in danger of being lynched right now. Do you not followthe pressure theory discussed earlier? I'm just not sure what good withholding a vote does....but I'm sure you have your reasons
Wait, did I miss a case on Eevee? If I did, could you guys tell me it?
Oh I'm not worried about quickhammering or anything. I just want my vote to mean more when I do cast it. If I vote just to put pressure on someone, then my vote isn't a vote because I think they're scummy. If the person doesn't think I think them scummy, then they're hardly under pressure by me are they?
Well, you can put me down as currently the most suspicious of eevee and can hold me accountable for that later, say if eevee dies at some point and is town. Why does it matter that I actually am voting? I'm just as commited to the read this way.
Hey, hey, hey!
Hey, hey, hey!
I will now forever picture raerae as Fat Albert.
Hey, hey, hey!
I will now forever picture raerae as Fat Albert.
That certainly doesn't jive with the image I had of her as Tina Fey
Hey, hey, hey!
I will now forever picture raerae as Fat Albert.
That certainly doesn't jive with the image I had of her as Tina Fey
Does that make Shraeye Alec Baldwin and TheMunch Tracy Morgan?
Ahhh, you're saying it's easier to notice/remember/track. that's certainly valid, I'll keep that in mind.
I also think it is a townvtown argument.just an agreement to a previous post, adds nothing to the discussion
No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?has nothing to do with the game
which to me just looks like he wants to throw a name out there to get people talking about someone he knows is town, and to up his post count.I was being facetious. But really this game seems like it's not going anywhere until some of the low-shows get off the sideline or else we force them to....No offence to spiritbears or anyone, and that's really cool, but can we move the conversation about Switzerland to another thread or PMs?Oh come on. It's not like there s anything else going on in here.
I agree. Let's keep this mafia focused. A post or two is ok. But if it is going to be a multi-post then I think you should move it to a PM. Just to keep out the clutter. I know you don't often do rereads, but for those of us that do, these sorts of posts can muck up the thread and make rereads a little bit more difficult. Moving it to a PM can't be that big of a hassle right?
as for there isn't anything else going on in here... well whose fault is that?
I say force. vote: Robz.
andfacetious if fair. It is sometimes hard to see in a forum setting.Oh didnt know that. vote: Eevee then.
as for Robz... I still find him a bit scummy from the earlier stuff, but remember that he is semi-VLA. So don't expect a lot from him in the next day or so, vote or no vote.
not adding meaningfully to discussionVote Count 1.4
spiritbears (1): modestguineapig
Eevee (3): nkirbit, mail-mi, spiritbears
Robz (1): sudgy
Ashersky (1): Eevee
Not voting(3): Ahoppy, ashersky, Yuma
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
What's the deadline?
more post count uppingFriday, May 24th at 8 p.m. Forum Time from the first day postOh thanks.
Here's a new post count, listing the players in order of posting frequency. This removes per-game posts.with 6 of his posts being the aforementioned not adding much to the discussion. Mostly what I'm seeing from him is trying to throw people off his trail, laying low but also trying to make it look like he is participating. I didn't go back further to look at his earlier posts, but for now I'm going to
ashersky (51)
spiritbears (39)
yuma (32)
liopoil (25)
nkirbit (25)
mcmcsalot (21)
mail-mi (18)
Eevee (15)
Robz888 (14)
modestguineapig (10)
sudgy (8)
AHoppy (2)
vote: AHoppy until he/she starts participating.
on spiritbears, I actually think his activity level is pretty equal to the "game that shall not be named" in the beginning before it came to its unfortunate close. Whereas in ninjas he subbed in and was behind all game long.I didn't realize that. It's positive really, makes me more confident in my town read!
on mail-mi: mail-mi has said before that his style is generally one of one liners. And while I think that is true it is also a great place for mafia to hide as one liners are generally pretty easy to reproduce.There are one liners and there are one liners. You know, "I support xxx's reasoning on yyy" is a one-liner but still a clear stance and an opinion you can be held accountable of.
Really seems like you are putting me in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation just because I wasn't around to open the thread for one or two days.
Well, d'uh, me too. What was I supposed to do after being gone enough to not have seen the last three pages? There wasn't any discussion ongoing I felt I had anything to add to / I couldn't participate in through my read list.Really seems like you are putting me in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation just because I wasn't around to open the thread for one or two days.
Yeah, I see that you might feel that way and that wasn't my intent. I don't know. I mean those sorts of posts are good for catching up and getting your ideas collected--that is generally why I do them--so I do agree that it could have been something you did to just catch up. But I have also seen others produce something similar after being called out for low activity. So I wouldn't say "damned if you do, damned if you don't." Rather... slightly scummy if you have low activity, slightly scummy if you respond in a certain way to pressure. All things being equal, I would rather have you had posted your list than not, because it gives us something to go off regarding you and your reads.
on eevee: I kinda found his last post on the suspicious side. Firstly because it was a result of being called out.is not true, but I guess you can't know that. Situation: I've been gone enough for there to be three new pages, I want to catch up. A couple of people are noticing my absence and wishing I'd contribute more. I think the same before even reading, notice people saying and don't really disagree, decide to lay out my thoughts on everyone in a big read post. Yuma says "it's suspicious because he only did it because he was called out on lurking".
Second because some of the reads seemed forced (I hate it when people say that, but I am going to say it as well, because what does forced even mean?) Well to me Eevee is basically saying that he has a bunch of null reads on almost everyone. Those he is suspicious of? Those who aren't being scummy.... By saying that he has a great way to get out of suspecting them.... because all he has to say is "they are being pro-town afterall and it really isn't fair for me to suspect them for being pro-town" and his town reads are "these guys are making waves and pressuring people" I wonder if they are actually scum trying to force a mislynch. I don't know. Maybe it is just these list types of posts when come w/o pressure I find them a more townie tell. But when they come as a response to lurker pressure I find them a bit scummy.I don't think my post was "just a bunch of null reads on everyone". Looking through it, there are really no nullreads at all - even the guys who I put in the middle such as yourself I had reasons for. Quite literally it was "what I thought of everyone in this game", obviously day 1 I'm not going to have super strong feelings on everyone or even on many people, would you?
on mail-mi: mail-mi has said before that his style is generally one of one liners. And while I think that is true it is also a great place for mafia to hide as one liners are generally pretty easy to reproduce.
He was certainly that was in Ninjas, as scum. I just looked and I would say that about 3/4ths of his posts are one to two sentences. But I also looked at Bankers, where he was town and it was the same, perhaps even more one-liners...
So I don't think I would be willing to vote mail-mi just based off this.
Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
sudgy: I've got nothing. I didn't have anything on scum sudgy in the LOTR game until WS got the cop investigation, so this fits his scum narrative in my opinion. Slightly scummy for not making waves which is what I think he'd do as scum.
I don't find yuma scummy for it, as going against me with a fake case doesn't strike to me as a particularly smart scum play. But it's just that obviously yuma isnt going to take my word for it, so I'd like others to comment/analyze and hopefully see what I'm saying.Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
I find questions like this SO, SO scummy. It's like you are asking permission to pursue this line of offense against yuma.
No. Look, some people here are scum, and that's true whether some people go balls to the walls anti-town or not. We can either analyze scummy behavior and try to find them that way, but especially before the first scum flip and the interaction analysis it opens, I find process of elimination a better method. "Who plays like their scum self?" "Who wouldn't do that unless they were town?" I think your play matches the lotr-game rather well in that you aren't really doing anything. I could have forgotten you were playing! Maybe town sudgy would be more careless, more bold, more aggressive, something? So it's more that you aren't being ANYTHING, not towny or scummy, not helpful or unhelpful.sudgy: I've got nothing. I didn't have anything on scum sudgy in the LOTR game until WS got the cop investigation, so this fits his scum narrative in my opinion. Slightly scummy for not making waves which is what I think he'd do as scum.
Wait, you think I'm scummy for not being scummy?
No. Look, some people here are scum, and that's true whether some people go balls to the walls anti-town or not. We can either analyze scummy behavior and try to find them that way, but especially before the first scum flip and the interaction analysis it opens, I find process of elimination a better method. "Who plays like their scum self?" "Who wouldn't do that unless they were town?" I think your play matches the lotr-game rather well in that you aren't really doing anything. I could have forgotten you were playing! Maybe town sudgy would be more careless, more bold, more aggressive, something? So it's more that you aren't being ANYTHING, not towny or scummy, not helpful or unhelpful.sudgy: I've got nothing. I didn't have anything on scum sudgy in the LOTR game until WS got the cop investigation, so this fits his scum narrative in my opinion. Slightly scummy for not making waves which is what I think he'd do as scum.
Wait, you think I'm scummy for not being scummy?
sudgy: I've got nothing. I didn't have anything on scum sudgy in the LOTR game until WS got the cop investigation, so this fits his scum narrative in my opinion. Slightly scummy for not making waves which is what I think he'd do as scum.
Vote: Eevee for saying something then realizing it was a bad idea to say it, so he said that it was a mistake.Hmm, what? So you think I didn't originally mean to say "He isn't making waves, that's coherent with scum sudgy"?
Vote: Eevee for saying something then realizing it was a bad idea to say it, so he said that it was a mistake.This seems like a very weak case/reason. I thought eevee's response to your question eas reasonable. However, I don't follow eevee's belief that Yuma was builiding a fake case. Yuma made what I thought were legit points which I'm glad to see you answer.
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
I take some issue with this.
If everyone starts putting lists out there with X,Y, and Z being "slightly scummy" that's all the ammunition mafia need to start fanning the flames of those lynches (knowing that X, Y, and Z are all townies). I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
Question for Eevee, mail-mi, nkib and sudgy [the people who felt that the uproar between sb and I was town v. town]: What do you make of the other voices who interjected into the exchange between myself and sb?
Yuma: Objects to MGP's summary, and immediately votes for MGP. He's trying to nail MGP for misrepresenting information, which I think is a much more legitimate case than mcmc's case. This could mean one of two things: town!yuma sees a mistake that MGP made, and think she's mafia, and points it out, or scum!yuma thinks that MGP has made a sufficient enough mistake that it's possibly enough to get people to vote forYumaMGP. For now, I have no idea which of the two it is, but if town!MGP comes up dead at some point, Yuma would be one of the first people I would be looking at.
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
I take some issue with this.
If everyone starts putting lists out there with X,Y, and Z being "slightly scummy" that's all the ammunition mafia need to start fanning the flames of those lynches (knowing that X, Y, and Z are all townies). I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
I have an issue with this. If you have such an issue with the suggestion, why did you say this:Question for Eevee, mail-mi, nkib and sudgy [the people who felt that the uproar between sb and I was town v. town]: What do you make of the other voices who interjected into the exchange between myself and sb?
What is the difference between Ash's question and your question. Both are asking others to say how they feel about each other. Yours is about a more specific context, but I don't view that as a huge difference.
It seems extremely bizarre to me that you would have an issue with someone else asking a type of question that you yourself asked two posts ago. What's up with that? It's odd enough to me that I'm going to
Vote: ModestGuineaPig
I guess I see the difference, but it's not a very satisfying one to me. I disagree that more information is worse... up to a ridiculous point which I don't think we'll come anywhere close to reaching, I would like to see as much information as possible. The more the better. I think the mafia has an interest in stifling discussion, which I think you're attempting to do here.
I think Eevee is squirming a lot more than usual.
Vote: Eevee
RE: the post count analysis. I think it is important to note that scum can easily talk game theory and set-up speculation to give the impression that they are involved in playing the game. But the game is scum-hunting, which these players may not be doing at all. I think content and quality of posts speak volumes more than quantity.
Question for Eevee, mail-mi, nkib and sudgy [the people who felt that the uproar between sb and I was town v. town]: What do you make of the other voices who interjected into the exchange between myself and sb?
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
I take some issue with this.
If everyone starts putting lists out there with X,Y, and Z being "slightly scummy" that's all the ammunition mafia need to start fanning the flames of those lynches (knowing that X, Y, and Z are all townies). I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
My post in response to ash was more of a..."let's take caution in having a mass claim of reads." I think one or two people doing reads now is fine. I think if the whole town were to rate everyone from scummiest to towniest, it gives the mafia targets for mislynches. (Like, if 5 people list X as "slightly-scummy" that is a good person For the mafia to work towards lynching). Does that make sense?
I think we should do a pop's style quiz of reads later in the day. I can see mgp's point and that we maybe shouldn't do it right away.
I guess I see the difference, but it's not a very satisfying one to me. I disagree that more information is worse... up to a ridiculous point which I don't think we'll come anywhere close to reaching, I would like to see as much information as possible. The more the better. I think the mafia has an interest in stifling discussion, which I think you're attempting to do here.
I actually prefer mpg's request over ashes. Because it a specific request and asks people to focus and answer a much more specific question. Scum I think tends to like generalities and broad statements and can do that more easily in answering ash's question than say mpg's. The downside is that mpg's only hits a handful of players, whereas ash's is for everyone. But neither make me think they are scum. MPG not liking the question... well I think that is a difference in play style more than anything, and I think those pop's style quizzes--as we tend to call them, after a player who played with us a while ago--have proven beneficial in the past, especially in helping town come to a consensus in times where it doesn't look like we will be able to get to a lynch. But she is right in that they can become subject to manipulation by mafia.
Actually uh, what exactly do you mean by forced? First of all, thison eevee: I kinda found his last post on the suspicious side. Firstly because it was a result of being called out.is not true, but I guess you can't know that. Situation: I've been gone enough for there to be three new pages, I want to catch up. A couple of people are noticing my absence and wishing I'd contribute more. I think the same before even reading, notice people saying and don't really disagree, decide to lay out my thoughts on everyone in a big read post. Yuma says "it's suspicious because he only did it because he was called out on lurking".Second because some of the reads seemed forced (I hate it when people say that, but I am going to say it as well, because what does forced even mean?) Well to me Eevee is basically saying that he has a bunch of null reads on almost everyone. Those he is suspicious of? Those who aren't being scummy.... By saying that he has a great way to get out of suspecting them.... because all he has to say is "they are being pro-town afterall and it really isn't fair for me to suspect them for being pro-town" and his town reads are "these guys are making waves and pressuring people" I wonder if they are actually scum trying to force a mislynch. I don't know. Maybe it is just these list types of posts when come w/o pressure I find them a more townie tell. But when they come as a response to lurker pressure I find them a bit scummy.I don't think my post was "just a bunch of null reads on everyone". Looking through it, there are really no nullreads at all - even the guys who I put in the middle such as yourself I had reasons for. Quite literally it was "what I thought of everyone in this game", obviously day 1 I'm not going to have super strong feelings on everyone or even on many people, would you?
Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
Actually uh, what exactly do you mean by forced? First of all, thison eevee: I kinda found his last post on the suspicious side. Firstly because it was a result of being called out.is not true, but I guess you can't know that. Situation: I've been gone enough for there to be three new pages, I want to catch up. A couple of people are noticing my absence and wishing I'd contribute more. I think the same before even reading, notice people saying and don't really disagree, decide to lay out my thoughts on everyone in a big read post. Yuma says "it's suspicious because he only did it because he was called out on lurking".Second because some of the reads seemed forced (I hate it when people say that, but I am going to say it as well, because what does forced even mean?) Well to me Eevee is basically saying that he has a bunch of null reads on almost everyone. Those he is suspicious of? Those who aren't being scummy.... By saying that he has a great way to get out of suspecting them.... because all he has to say is "they are being pro-town afterall and it really isn't fair for me to suspect them for being pro-town" and his town reads are "these guys are making waves and pressuring people" I wonder if they are actually scum trying to force a mislynch. I don't know. Maybe it is just these list types of posts when come w/o pressure I find them a more townie tell. But when they come as a response to lurker pressure I find them a bit scummy.I don't think my post was "just a bunch of null reads on everyone". Looking through it, there are really no nullreads at all - even the guys who I put in the middle such as yourself I had reasons for. Quite literally it was "what I thought of everyone in this game", obviously day 1 I'm not going to have super strong feelings on everyone or even on many people, would you?
Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
First part: I agree that doing that sort of a list can be very useful as a townie catching up and consolidating thoughts. I have said that already above. But I also think that it is a tactic used by scum when they are being called out for not contributing... Kind of a "see! I do have opinions! So I am not scummy sort of feel." Do you remember Kooshie's post in Bankers? While I think yours has more substance--and I would kinda expect it to coming from your more thorough experience as mafia--I thought it had the potential to be scummy. I also remember Grujah doing something similar in Masquerade... something that I think jumped out to both me and Galz.
Second part: As for null reads... I didn't mean that they lacked reasons, but rather that many of the players had a "he is scummy for this reason but also townie for this reason" resulting in null middling reads. Examples: (PS I am paraphrasing with the quotes) ash... "isn't crazy so town, but I expect him to be crazy so scum." lio... "laying low so scummy, but also makes sense as a townie." mcmc "isn't taking a bold role as mafia so townie, but wouldn't have the time since he is busy so maybe scummy."
You see what I mean? You just kinda left the door open on some people to go either way. And I get that it is day1 and pretty early day1 so a lot of those opinions make sense. But it was enough for me to perk my ears up and question it... and I think in the end it has been positive as it has resulted in a reaction from you that I and others can gauge.
Well, I'm halfway through my re-read (of the whole entire game, mind you). Will finish tommorow. saying this because I do think I haven't contributed much in the way of reads thus far so assuring ya'll that I'm doing that now :P
I guess I see the difference, but it's not a very satisfying one to me. I disagree that more information is worse... up to a ridiculous point which I don't think we'll come anywhere close to reaching, I would like to see as much information as possible. The more the better. I think the mafia has an interest in stifling discussion, which I think you're attempting to do here.
I actually prefer mpg's request over ashes. Because it a specific request and asks people to focus and answer a much more specific question. Scum I think tends to like generalities and broad statements and can do that more easily in answering ash's question than say mpg's. The downside is that mpg's only hits a handful of players, whereas ash's is for everyone. But neither make me think they are scum. MPG not liking the question... well I think that is a difference in play style more than anything, and I think those pop's style quizzes--as we tend to call them, after a player who played with us a while ago--have proven beneficial in the past, especially in helping town come to a consensus in times where it doesn't look like we will be able to get to a lynch. But she is right in that they can become subject to manipulation by mafia.
Like I said, I think mpg's request was a good one, for the information it produced. Popsquizzes work, as you note. I think both of these types of questions, and way more, should be asked. Ask questions, see how people answer.
I'll also say that mgp's request specifically pointed attention away from her and onto others. Classic deflection tactic.
Question for Eevee, mail-mi, nkib and sudgy [the people who felt that the uproar between sb and I was town v. town]: What do you make of the other voices who interjected into the exchange between myself and sb?
I don't find yuma scummy for it, as going against me with a fake case doesn't strike to me as a particularly smart scum play. But it's just that obviously yuma isnt going to take my word for it, so I'd like others to comment/analyze and hopefully see what I'm saying.Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
I find questions like this SO, SO scummy. It's like you are asking permission to pursue this line of offense against yuma.
I don't find yuma scummy for it, as going against me with a fake case doesn't strike to me as a particularly smart scum play. But it's just that obviously yuma isnt going to take my word for it, so I'd like others to comment/analyze and hopefully see what I'm saying.Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
I find questions like this SO, SO scummy. It's like you are asking permission to pursue this line of offense against yuma.
Vote: eevee I totally agree with robz here, and eevve does tend to slip quickly under pressure as scum(sk in MAII I believe)
I don't find yuma scummy for it, as going against me with a fake case doesn't strike to me as a particularly smart scum play. But it's just that obviously yuma isnt going to take my word for it, so I'd like others to comment/analyze and hopefully see what I'm saying.Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
I find questions like this SO, SO scummy. It's like you are asking permission to pursue this line of offense against yuma.
Vote: eevee I totally agree with robz here, and eevve does tend to slip quickly under pressure as scum(sk in MAII I believe)
Eevee was a WW in MAII, but same difference. He came under pressure when he was fingered for having a QT by another power role (on D1!) then his fake claim didn't hold up. Lynched D2.
I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
I take some issue with this.
If everyone starts putting lists out there with X,Y, and Z being "slightly scummy" that's all the ammunition mafia need to start fanning the flames of those lynches (knowing that X, Y, and Z are all townies). I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
Participation check! It's 50% of your grade, after all.
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
I take some issue with this.
If everyone starts putting lists out there with X,Y, and Z being "slightly scummy" that's all the ammunition mafia need to start fanning the flames of those lynches (knowing that X, Y, and Z are all townies). I think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
I have an issue with this. If you have such an issue with the suggestion, why did you say this:Question for Eevee, mail-mi, nkib and sudgy [the people who felt that the uproar between sb and I was town v. town]: What do you make of the other voices who interjected into the exchange between myself and sb?
What is the difference between Ash's question and your question. Both are asking others to say how they feel about each other. Yours is about a more specific context, but I don't view that as a huge difference.
It seems extremely bizarre to me that you would have an issue with someone else asking a type of question that you yourself asked two posts ago. What's up with that? It's odd enough to me that I'm going to
Vote: ModestGuineaPig
Here's the difference I see, take it or leave it:
I felt like ash was suggesting that everyone should put their reads out there.
I feel like I am asking a specific question to specific people.
My post in response to ash was more of a..."let's take caution in having a mass claim of reads." I think one or two people doing reads now is fine. I think if the whole town were to rate everyone from scummiest to towniest, it gives the mafia targets for mislynches. (Like, if 5 people list X as "slightly-scummy" that is a good person For the mafia to work towards lynching). Does that make sense?
Hey Ash, here's what I saidI think a better approach is to make mental notes, gauge reactions/interactions, ask questions, make observations, and vote.
I think comprehensive reads lists later (D2 and following) are more helpful.
I don't know what to make of ash suggesting this. Maybe I am alone in thinking it is unnecessary this early.
You've accused me of:
"fighting against a pro-town request so hard, misrepresentation, and trying to undermine town's play."
1. I'm not fighting against anything, and certainly not hard. Yeah, I'm a newbie, and I realize these lists are standard. But I am thinking outside the box. Pointing out the fact that mafia can use reads lists against town seemed helpful to town in case someone hadn't thought of that angle. If I was mafia, why would I bring it up at all?
2. It has been a while since my graduate school hermeneutics class, but basically I used the term "mass claim" in a general sense, not specific. I meant to express "all town participates in an action." Sorry for the confusion.
3. I'm all for information. Great. If you have anything you want to ask me, fire away. Others have agreed that information can also be used against town. Pointing this out doesn't seem to undermine anything.
I feel ash's response was out of proportion to my thoughts on the topic. If I "lambaste" you...you'll know... ;)
2. It has been a while since my graduate school hermeneutics class, but basically I used the term "mass claim" in a general sense, not specific. I meant to express "all town participates in an action." Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry thus is going to be short as I am more limited than I hoped. I'm feeling less likely that mgp is town. The truthstretching and misleading is just piling up. Eeevee I think has reacted fine to the pressure and I'm not concerned about him right now. I still see robz making quick dirty hits..leaning scum. And I've noticed Mc's gameis way off from the normal mc leading town. Null-to scum. Watching that.
vote mgp
Eevee- can you further explain what you meant by [sorry can't quote it right now] "juggling the wrong and genuine and those taking advantage of townies who are wrong and genuine"? (If I didn't get that right, please don't read into it...I am quoting it from memory) I think I agree with you, but I want to be sure what you meant.I actually don't know what this is referring to. Oh right, I do, about me.
@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.townread for being vocal in general, this post is an example of that.
And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices
townread on this. in my experience, defensive, surprised when people find him scummy ashersky is town!ashersky.Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ash
Really?Yeah I'd say out of those two votes, ashersky's was clearly clearly worse..
You are kidding, right?
Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ashhuh?
I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.
So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.are in a bit of a contradiction in terms of awareness about the setup. His response:
I clicked over to page 1, scanned it for a list of PRs, found none, and gave up. I thought the three PMs thing was flavor related.Is adequate I think, but the "I'm an idiot" reads scummy to me because it's kinda AtE and he isn't being stupid at all here really.
I'm an idiot.
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.A solid point which I think is more likely to be written by town. I've been quoting more of robz's posts than anyone else, not sure why.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.a weird thing to do as scum. He explains later it was partially to gauge reactions, partially serious.
Starting on Thursday, May 9th, I had finalsbeginning of a good long post on mail-mi. So yeah, free pass for now.
Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes senseQuoted this before for sounding like he knows spiritbears is town, and quoting it again. Interaction with spiritbears in general seems off.
lio I am a bit confused on your read on Robz.hehe, looking at my post, I can see how you would be rather confused:
Robz888: like yuma pointed out, these posts:In making that post, I went through the game and quoted interesting posts, then afterwards went through gave a read on each. I guess I forgot to do that for robz because the bit I wrote about robz was already long so I thought I already had given a read. When I went to make the ranking thing I just put down what I thought I had thought in the re-read anyway:I didn't even realize the scum were picking their partners. Fascinating.So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.are in a bit of a contradiction in terms of awareness about the setup. His response:I clicked over to page 1, scanned it for a list of PRs, found none, and gave up. I thought the three PMs thing was flavor related.Is adequate I think, but the "I'm an idiot" reads scummy to me because it's kinda AtE and he isn't being stupid at all here really.
I'm an idiot.Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.A solid point which I think is more likely to be written by town. I've been quoting more of robz's posts than anyone else, not sure why.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.a weird thing to do as scum. He explains later it was partially to gauge reactions, partially serious.
I wasn't joking! He refused to answer a question. I'm not going to excuse poor behavior.
(I chose to leave it ambiguous whether it was a joke, because on wanted to gauge how he--and others--reacted to it.)
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)This was when liopoil himself only had posted theory and nothing about individual players.
This was liopoil's idea but for me it's a null tell as scum could propose it quite easily knowing the mods wouldn't let it happen.As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.uh-oh, I think we can break the game by paraphrasing the flavour in our second PM. (or at least make one IC). This is kinda similar to the station-aligned thing in DS9. I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....
I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.) is the first one where he comments anything on any other player (instead of strategy, theory or jokes or praising how fast the game is moving).
Good point in my opinion.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.Town points for this. The MGP witchhunt was running rampant (for no good reason imo), and mafia could have wanted to fan the flames by staying out of it or even joining them mob (assuming MGP is town).
I know he plays like this in general but the total lack of posts I interpret towny makes me feel good enough about this.
he's saying the opposite, that mail-mi DOESN'T have any posts that he sees as towny.yes :)
Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
"Have a great weekend, guys! Will you please try to get some work done though? You know you do a better job when you don't wait until the last minute."
"Have a great weekend, guys! Will you please try to get some work done though? You know you do a better job when you don't wait until the last minute."
see even the mod thinks we should have a soft deadline. And mcmc I see that you requested to move it to thursday.... I believe that is because you are more active on thursday yes... and while I understand that request, I would feel much more comfortable with it on a wednesday. So that we have thursday as a back up before we hit the no man's land that is friday night.
Anyway, I'm not going to vote Robz (even though he is my highest scum read mostly for the setup speculation inconsistency and lurking before VLA) because he is on VLA.Not that I have a problem with you not voting for robz, but why should him being on V/LA matter? He's still just as likely to be scum.
Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.
Well I mean that's all it was, Eevee does seem a bit squirmy, but you know I do know that he is generaly inclined to squirm more than other people. He likes being viewed positively and has a curious, inquisitive nature that can come across as scummy in the sense that I tend to identify (the asking permission thing.)
I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!
Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.These sound like he cares about looking scummy. Town hardly cares about that at all.
Well I mean that's all it was, Eevee does seem a bit squirmy, but you know I do know that he is generaly inclined to squirm more than other people. He likes being viewed positively and has a curious, inquisitive nature that can come across as scummy in the sense that I tend to identify (the asking permission thing.)
You make him sound like a wild animal species...! But I see what you are saying. Do you think your vote was opportunistic. Or rather do you think that it could be viewed that way?
...he's an eevee... he is an animal! ;)I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.These sound like he cares about looking scummy. Town hardly cares about that at all.
I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!"Mail-mi is sheeping, I should sheep to him!" Vote: robz
...he's an eevee... he is an animal! ;)I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.These sound like he cares about looking scummy. Town hardly cares about that at all.
I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!"Mail-mi is sheeping, I should sheep to him!" Vote: robz
I can't think of anything either. But, yuma, I thought you didn't like meta-arguments...
I'm ready to Vote: Robz888
We gotta get this game rolling again, soft deadline on wednesday and we've hardly discussed any cases! Robz is currently my top lynch candidate, and now that I've re-read I'm confident enough to put a vote down.
Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc.
Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensesounds like you know SB is town, like I've said
woah there. That was hardly a case on you, in fact, I didn't say any of my reasons for being suspicious of you there. you aren't even my top choice for a lynch right now, robz is. I'm not sure what you're reacting to there, but I'll explain why I'm suspicious of you:
- A likely choice to be chosen for a scum partner
-Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensesounds like you know SB is town, like I've said
- completely missunderstands/missinterprets/twists MGP's post
- Votes SB for not doing something which mcmc believes to be pro-town, and SB doesn't. I disagree that this makes him scummy and so doesn't need a vote.
So of course it isn't much, D1 cases never are. But this is far more solid than some of the other things so far, like the stuff on SB/MGP
mcmcsalot: One of the more likely to be chosen to be a scumbuddy, but hasn't been mentioned as much as Eevee or me, making it seem even more likely that he was chosen.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes senseQuoted this before for sounding like he knows spiritbears is town, and quoting it again. Interaction with spiritbears in general seems off.
scummy to towny:
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
liopoil
As far as your reasons, my post to spirit was an attempt to explain to him why h should answer the question. I think a typical town issue is "I know I'm town I don't need to go out of my way to do townie things" so I was saying to him even though he knows he is town(if he is) he still needs to convince everyone else he is town. Next I still stand by there is never a point where an anti town lynch is good, is it better than a random lynch yes I understand that but we should never random lynch and MGP voted based off this "its better than a random lynch" idea. Which is ridiculous because if you find noone scummy don't vote its not like he was at deadline and said oh well this is the best because noone is scummy, he just made the attempt to start a wagon on someone quite early because "its better than random". So you claiming I have not just misunderstood but twisted his post is complete crap. Lastly my vote on sb was out of compounding frustration from multiple games and irl stuff which I took a break and came back and unvoted.- I agree with your point about why SB should answer the question (and he did answer the question as far as I'm concerned), it is the way you phrased it. I'm not a big fan of scumslips, but this one seems more valid than others.
Eevee- can you further explain what you meant by [sorry can't quote it right now] "juggling the wrong and genuine and those taking advantage of townies who are wrong and genuine"? (If I didn't get that right, please don't read into it...I am quoting it from memory) I think I agree with you, but I want to be sure what you meant.I actually don't know what this is referring to. Oh right, I do, about me.
Well, the mini-wagon on me grew sort of fast. People seemed genuinely interested in lynching me, so for me, as I have the benefit of knowing I'm town, it's a situation where I want to try analyze if the people calling for my head are just mistaken, or if they are taking advantage of a situation where enough townies are mistaken and it can actually happen (or if they are trying to convince other townies to make a mistake, but as I said, I don't believe that was yuma's intent as the "case" on me came sort of out of the blue and he couldn't have known it would get traction like that - very risky for scum). I don't know if that's any more clear though..
So I thought a bit about Robz's most recent responses and once again they leave me feeling a bit undecided. Because I would have expected town Robz to lambast and vocally go against my points about him--even if they are solid, and I think they are.
When I think of Robz that is what I think of. Someone who when he gets under pressure as town fights extremely hard against the arguments, even when the arguments are pretty good. But Robz is a player that is constantly changing his meta, that is what makes him so good and exciting to play with! (See the last blitz game where Robz took on the vitriolic and caustic persona as mafia, something we have rarely seen from him as mafia.) So what does seeing a more level headed Robz mean? Ultimately I don't know, hence my slight undecidedness....
However, I think meta aside his actual posts and content (specifically the spiritbears flipflop, the theory confusion, the opportunistic vote on eevee, and I suppose you can add in his "sheepy" vote on mail-mi, regardless of him calling himself out on it) are all scummy regardless of his meta. So I will keep my vote on him, but I am interested in what people think his meta in this game regarding his scumminess...
A very fair portrayal of me.
@yuma, what did you mean by saying Robz flipflopped on sb? I think I must of missed that. I saw his vote and explanation.
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!
Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.
I wasn't joking! He refused to answer a question. I'm not going to excuse poor behavior.
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.A solid point which I think is more likely to be written by town. I've been quoting more of robz's posts than anyone else, not sure why.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.a weird thing to do as scum. He explains later it was partially to gauge reactions, partially serious.
Anyway, I'm not going to vote Robz (even though he is my highest scum read mostly for the setup speculation inconsistency and lurking before VLA) because he is on VLA.
Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.
I don't really have any reads, sorry to be so utterly useless.
Vote: mail-mi, I guess?
I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!"Mail-mi is sheeping, I should sheep to him!" Vote: robz
Yeah, I didn't actually notice that when I made the post. But I realized it here:Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.A solid point which I think is more likely to be written by town. I've been quoting more of robz's posts than anyone else, not sure why.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.a weird thing to do as scum. He explains later it was partially to gauge reactions, partially serious.
I noticed this bit about Robz in liopoil's re-read. I bolded the important bits. Basically, Robz points out a very good reason for why sb could be town. Pretty valid point. Later in the day (5 hours later, not long enough to forget, I'd say), he votes sb for "obvious reasons" which were I think based on being anti-town. But just earlier in the day, he was pointing out why sb is probably town.
That's pretty scummy.
robz says that he thinks spiritbears is town and he made a genuine mistake. Then there's the vote on spiritbears, for "obvious reasons". It seems a tad contrary to what was said previously
Anyway, I'm not going to vote Robz (even though he is my highest scum read mostly for the setup speculation inconsistency and lurking before VLA) because he is on VLA.Shoot, I was typing a post about how I'm not really sold at all on voting Eevee, and my computer restarted as I was writing, and now yuma has voted me and it's going to look reactive. But oh well.
I don't really have any reads, sorry to be so utterly useless.
Vote: mail-mi, I guess?I'm sheeping the vote on mail-mi for sheeping. Great!"Mail-mi is sheeping, I should sheep to him!" Vote: robz
See the above posts, in chronological order. Does anyone else feel like that's scripted or forced? It's like an interaction that had no reason to take place, but they both wanted it to be on the record opposing each other. Who does that in a mafia game? Oh right, mafia.
Ashersky is correct, spiritbears. Scum always have a qt.A solid point which I think is more likely to be written by town. I've been quoting more of robz's posts than anyone else, not sure why.
I very much doubt that this was anything other than a mistake though, ash. In fact, I think it's a genuine mistake, which means he has no knowledge that scum have a qt. What does that make him? Town. He's town, you retaliator!Vote: spiritbears, for obvious reasons.a weird thing to do as scum. He explains later it was partially to gauge reactions, partially serious.
I noticed this bit about Robz in liopoil's re-read. I bolded the important bits. Basically, Robz points out a very good reason for why sb could be town. Pretty valid point. Later in the day (5 hours later, not long enough to forget, I'd say), he votes sb for "obvious reasons" which were I think based on being anti-town. But just earlier in the day, he was pointing out why sb is probably town.
That's pretty scummy.
PPE: I'm not so sure about that being scripted, but it is weird that mail-mi said he wouldn't vote robz but then did.
Anyway, I'm not going to vote Robz (even though he is my highest scum read mostly for the setup speculation inconsistency and lurking before VLA) because he is on VLA.See the above posts, in chronological order. Does anyone else feel like that's scripted or forced? It's like an interaction that had no reason to take place, but they both wanted it to be on the record opposing each other. Who does that in a mafia game? Oh right, mafia.
Because I thought his vote on me then subsequent post was very scummy. And no, my vote was not meant to be an OMGUS
PPE: I'm not so sure about that being scripted, but it is weird that mail-mi said he wouldn't vote robz but then did.
And this also.Anyway, I'm not going to vote Robz (even though he is my highest scum read mostly for the setup speculation inconsistency and lurking before VLA) because he is on VLA.See the above posts, in chronological order. Does anyone else feel like that's scripted or forced? It's like an interaction that had no reason to take place, but they both wanted it to be on the record opposing each other. Who does that in a mafia game? Oh right, mafia.
I will say on the part about mail-mi that the reason mail-mi gives for not voting Robz is because he is VLA. But then robz comes back and makes a post, so he is no longer VLA? So then, mail-mi doesn't have that reason anymore so he can then vote and does. That is how I saw it at least.
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
He wasn't close to being lynched back then. Not sure what you were worried about. Losing a partner?
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
He wasn't close to being lynched back then. Not sure what you were worried about. Losing a partner?
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
I'm sorry, but this just screams as scummy to me. Vote: mail-mi.
You could easily be the one choosing.
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
He wasn't close to being lynched back then. Not sure what you were worried about. Losing a partner?
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
I'm sorry, but this just screams as scummy to me. Vote: mail-mi.
Okay, so the thing about Robz is, for him the inconsistencies and unrefined play is just disinterested townie. I see the case against him, I really do, but he has been mislynched like this so often. Have we ever nailed scum Robz day 1? Of course he could be scum and banking on someone to say this but man, intentionally appearing scummy as scum to look towny is just so far-fetched he deserves it if that's the case.
So, much like in bankers beware the scummy Jimmm we were seeing was not the scum Jimmm I know, this isnt the scum Robz I know. I dont know if its everyone rallying against him all of a sudden or what, but this now reminds me of Robz in mafia noir. Annoingly scummy, but town.
I like the mail-mi lynch better. We caught him for "obvious scum play" once already, so while the case on Robz is similar, I think the same behavior is a MUCH bigger scumtell for mail-mi.
Hey look, our first day one real interaction! And ash is voting someone for not knowing about the scum QT! Why wouldnt a newbie scum know about that? Vote: ash
I also think it is a townvtown argument.
I say force. vote: Robz.
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
Robz flip on me wss just careless play imo. Not townyactingscummy
Wine + whisky = AMA.
Robz flip on me wss just careless play imo. Not townyactingscummy
It wasn't careless. I did it for a reason. I wanted to see what would happen. I wanted to see how you--and others--would react. I thought, and continue to think, that you are town.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
that was my initial thought as well, but now I am not so sure... the first possibility really does make sense.
A fatal flaw in option 2 is what I have been saying over and over again in different games...
That is a strategy that as scum, it is possible... but is very, very risky. Because eventually scum will get called out on it. And when they do there is a very high likelyhood that they will be lynched. I said the same thing about Robz in the blitz game recently--he was actually scum--and was called out on it and was lynched day2. It is risky and one that I think scum tends not to do.... that is go into a game and plan on playing badly and then say, "I am just town playing badly!"
I feel life I somehow missed the case on mail-mi... I know there was something about him voting for Robz when he said he wasn't... but I thought that explained itsself pretty well. What am I missing?
PPE: softdeadline isn't tomorrow, it is wednesday.
oh... is it already tomorrow in australia?
I do not support the mail-mi lynch. his play seems like normal mail-mi play. Looks like the easy D1 mislynch. I do support the robz lynch. It seems like there are 6 people who support each lynch (nkirbit and ashersky look like they support both), and two people who haven't said much about either one, mcmc and MGP. speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Also reread mail-mi, didn't take much time. He has taken some stances, but they've seem to been really "easy" or sheepy in that he goes with whatever is the current consensus without really sticking his neck out for his read. Also, he has a lot of short posts that aren't really saying anything. Vote: mail-mi is better than not having my vote anywhere, I know he plays like this in general but the total lack of posts I interpret towny makes me feel good enough about this.
PPE: I'm not so sure about that being scripted, but it is weird that mail-mi said he wouldn't vote robz but then did.
I think it's weirder because of this series of things:
1) mail-mi says Robz is his biggest scum read
2) mail-mi says he won't vote for Robz even though #1
3) Robz888 votes mail-mi randomly in a post about Eevee
4) Robz888 jokes about how he sheep voted mail-mi for sheeping
5) mail-mi votes Robz in a clear OMGUS -- not for Robz being scummy or his top scum read
That sequence of events just feels unnatural.
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
He wasn't close to being lynched back then. Not sure what you were worried about. Losing a partner?
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
I'm sorry, but this just screams as scummy to me. Vote: mail-mi.
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
This:I'm sorry, but this just screams as scummy to me. Vote: mail-mi.
and this:You could easily be the one choosing.
vote: mail-mi Really, that was almost scumslip territory.
I like the mail-mi lynch better. We caught him for "obvious scum play" once already, so while the case on Robz is similar, I think the same behavior is a MUCH bigger scumtell for mail-mi.
I do not support the mail-mi lynch. his play seems like normal mail-mi play. Looks like the easy D1 mislynch. I do support the robz lynch. It seems like there are 6 people who support each lynch (nkirbit and ashersky look like they support both), and two people who haven't said much about either one, mcmc and MGP. speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
I don't support the robz lynch I'll check out the mail-mi thing. I support the liopoil lynch.
speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Um, scroll up to the top of the page and see Nkirbit's long case on mail-mi. Go back a page to mine and another page for lio's. Have you two not been reading?
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
Bolded for possible scumslip. Town then, but not now?
sudgy, that is ridiculous... how serious are you being?
Town then, but not in the game where we lynched town!mail-mi D1.yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
Bolded for possible scumslip. Town then, but not now?
I'll vote mail-mi tomorrow (Tuesday) unless something else happens.this. agree with Yuma here, would you care to state any rationale?
While he usually is lynched for lurking and such, I think there's more here.
sudgy, that is ridiculous... how serious are you being?
Which post are you talking about?
Here is how I feel about mail-mi
@nkribit's case: Your first quote means nothing to me. Very early in the day, I don't mind those sorts of early votes. Your second quote looks like it was an attempt to get Robz to be more active... so nothing there. Same as the Eevee vote... These types of votes don't really need reasons except to say that this person should be posting more, I disagree that they are effective, but don't read much into it. As for the third quote, I agree that it is weird although I honestly kinda agree with him... I wouldn't pick him as a scum partner (even for WIFOM reasons) I am sure he is a competent player, but he did make a pretty fatal mistake in the Ninjas game, so I kinda see why he said it. So I do think that it makes him slightly less likely to be scum than other players. Sure he coudl be the original mafia chooser, but that puts his odds around 1/12 rather than 3/12...
@ Eevee's case: being sheepy is scummy and brief, I agree. But if that is basically the whole of your argument, I don't know if that is enough to lynch.
@ ash's case: I don't see how unnatural it is and even if I did it would require me to see both mail-mi and robz be scum partners. I guess I am just not comfortable with naming pairs this early? I already explained that I thought mail-mi didn't vote because Robz was VLA, when Robz came back, he voted. That makes sense to me.
@ sudgy's case: See the above post (the lower part) of my response to nkirbit. Weird, but perhaps not enough to justify a vote alone?
@ ash's case again: I dont' see how it is a slip?
So I guess I see that mail-mi did something kinda weird in talking about how people wouldn't choose him as a partner. I agree, but I don't see how it is that great of a defense. And he has been sheepy and brief with his posts. So I would put him on the scummy side of things, but I don't think I would vote for him at this juncture.
sudgy, that is ridiculous... how serious are you being?
Which post are you talking about?
oh I don't know... maybe the one right above where you accused someone of a scumslip for using the word "then" Do you have multiple posts that are ridiculous... I might go back and see because now I am intrigued
sudgy, that is ridiculous... how serious are you being?
Which post are you talking about?
oh I don't know... maybe the one right above where you accused someone of a scumslip for using the word "then" Do you have multiple posts that are ridiculous... I might go back and see because now I am intrigued
yeah, actually, I thought you were saying it about the one where he said he was going to vote for mail-mi tommorow.sudgy, that is ridiculous... how serious are you being?
Which post are you talking about?
oh I don't know... maybe the one right above where you accused someone of a scumslip for using the word "then" Do you have multiple posts that are ridiculous... I might go back and see because now I am intrigued
It isn't the strongest case in the world, but it is D1 and it's pretty good.the case on robz is not just the thing about being more laid back and disinterested. Not at all.
Robz is the other viable lynch at this point. I think "disinterested town Robz" is more likely than "disinterested town mail-mi" which seems to be the defense both of them are using (note: this adds to the scumpair theory). I get the case (and supported it earlier) on Robz, and can see the merits there. Just think mail-mi is probably the better choice.
I'm open to other cases, but haven't seen many made or brought back up recently. I think there was some liopoil talk, but he's been pretty towny to me.
It isn't the strongest case in the world, but it is D1 and it's pretty good.the case on robz is not just the thing about being more laid back and disinterested. Not at all.
Robz is the other viable lynch at this point. I think "disinterested town Robz" is more likely than "disinterested town mail-mi" which seems to be the defense both of them are using (note: this adds to the scumpair theory). I get the case (and supported it earlier) on Robz, and can see the merits there. Just think mail-mi is probably the better choice.
I'm open to other cases, but haven't seen many made or brought back up recently. I think there was some liopoil talk, but he's been pretty towny to me.
The only person talking about a liopoil lynch is mcmc.
The use of the word "then" seems perfectly natural regardless of whether lio is scum or not this game. I think I would use it in both cases. It literally means "I was scum in that game" .... absolutely no bearing on this game, IMO
The use of the word "then" seems perfectly natural regardless of whether lio is scum or not this game. I think I would use it in both cases. It literally means "I was scum in that game" .... absolutely no bearing on this game, IMO
I agree, but I thought that bringing it up is interesting (I thought it was sudgy, but was actually ashersky) and thought it might have been a joke and it appears that it was?
It isn't the strongest case in the world, but it is D1 and it's pretty good.the case on robz is not just the thing about being more laid back and disinterested. Not at all.
Robz is the other viable lynch at this point. I think "disinterested town Robz" is more likely than "disinterested town mail-mi" which seems to be the defense both of them are using (note: this adds to the scumpair theory). I get the case (and supported it earlier) on Robz, and can see the merits there. Just think mail-mi is probably the better choice.
I'm open to other cases, but haven't seen many made or brought back up recently. I think there was some liopoil talk, but he's been pretty towny to me.
The only person talking about a liopoil lynch is mcmc.
Well, if his defense is unrelated to the case, that isn't much of a defense is it?It isn't the strongest case in the world, but it is D1 and it's pretty good.the case on robz is not just the thing about being more laid back and disinterested. Not at all.
Robz is the other viable lynch at this point. I think "disinterested town Robz" is more likely than "disinterested town mail-mi" which seems to be the defense both of them are using (note: this adds to the scumpair theory). I get the case (and supported it earlier) on Robz, and can see the merits there. Just think mail-mi is probably the better choice.
I'm open to other cases, but haven't seen many made or brought back up recently. I think there was some liopoil talk, but he's been pretty towny to me.
The only person talking about a liopoil lynch is mcmc.
No, the case on Robz isn't that--Robz's defense is the disinterested thing.
Mail-mi, I should also point out that I could well be convinced to not vote for you. That's why I haven't voted yet. I just want you to answer the questions I asked of you.
1. What do you think of AHoppy's case that you hadn't been contributing at all, to that point. Is it something other than your playstyle?
2. What was your reason for switching your vote to Eevee when you heard Robz was V/LA. Why did you feel the need to have a vote without explaining your reasons for voting? Did you think Eevee was scum?
Mail-mi, I should also point out that I could well be convinced to not vote for you. That's why I haven't voted yet. I just want you to answer the questions I asked of you.
1. What do you think of AHoppy's case that you hadn't been contributing at all, to that point. Is it something other than your playstyle?
2. What was your reason for switching your vote to Eevee when you heard Robz was V/LA. Why did you feel the need to have a vote without explaining your reasons for voting? Did you think Eevee was scum?
I'll go look up Ahoppy's case right now, but as for number 2, I was trying to get Robz back in and play, but he was v/la and Eevee was also lurking so I voted for him.
sure of it? man, don't be sure of anything in the game of mafia, especially not in D1. now, to address your post:
I'm lining up my misslynches? what I said: "Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc." Anyone of any alignment would say that about their second choice for a lynch. Robz has been getting by far the most attention, and that's good. You haven't been getting enough attention. this statement makes just as much sense to be made as town or scum
You were previously my top choice for a lynch. Now you and robz have switched places. What's scummy about that? Once I've picked my reads I'm not allowed to ever change my mind or be persuaded? If everyone followed that philosophy we could never come to a consensus on who to lynch.As far as your reasons, my post to spirit was an attempt to explain to him why h should answer the question. I think a typical town issue is "I know I'm town I don't need to go out of my way to do townie things" so I was saying to him even though he knows he is town(if he is) he still needs to convince everyone else he is town. Next I still stand by there is never a point where an anti town lynch is good, is it better than a random lynch yes I understand that but we should never random lynch and MGP voted based off this "its better than a random lynch" idea. Which is ridiculous because if you find noone scummy don't vote its not like he was at deadline and said oh well this is the best because noone is scummy, he just made the attempt to start a wagon on someone quite early because "its better than random". So you claiming I have not just misunderstood but twisted his post is complete crap. Lastly my vote on sb was out of compounding frustration from multiple games and irl stuff which I took a break and came back and unvoted.- I agree with your point about why SB should answer the question (and he did answer the question as far as I'm concerned), it is the way you phrased it. I'm not a big fan of scumslips, but this one seems more valid than others.
- anti-town lynch is better than a random lynch, and at the time MGP didn't have anything better than a random lynch. Voting for who you think the best lynch is at the time can't be scummy.
- You were voting SB without wanting to lynch him? Well, that's anti-town and a bad idea, but if it is true then it is not scummy, you're right.
I'll admit, your last two posts do read town!mcmc to me. scum!mcmc isn't so defensive.
PPE: votecount. why are people still voting MGP?
Ahoppy's case: I post 6 one-liners that dont add to discussion to up my post count.
My defense: Um, huh? When do post counts really matter in the beginning stages of Day 1? I really don't want to be using this defense, but that's just how I do things.
@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.That's more like it!
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
woah there. That was hardly a case on you, in fact, I didn't say any of my reasons for being suspicious of you there. you aren't even my top choice for a lynch right now, robz is. I'm not sure what you're reacting to there, but I'll explain why I'm suspicious of you:
- A likely choice to be chosen for a scum partner
-Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensesounds like you know SB is town, like I've said
- completely missunderstands/missinterprets/twists MGP's post
- Votes SB for not doing something which mcmc believes to be pro-town, and SB doesn't. I disagree that this makes him scummy and so doesn't need a vote.
So of course it isn't much, D1 cases never are. But this is far more solid than some of the other things so far, like the stuff on SB/MGP
I am responding to the fact that you made a statement that seemed fishy to me, the whole I'll vote robz but lets look at mcmc later is such a scum tactic. It's what you do when you know robz lynch is a good mislynch and you want to set up another one tomorrow on me. It is a tactic I have used as scum before. Also you previously said thismcmcsalot: One of the more likely to be chosen to be a scumbuddy, but hasn't been mentioned as much as Eevee or me, making it seem even more likely that he was chosen.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes senseQuoted this before for sounding like he knows spiritbears is town, and quoting it again. Interaction with spiritbears in general seems off.
scummy to towny:
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
liopoil
So previously I was your top choice for a lynch.
As far as your reasons, my post to spirit was an attempt to explain to him why h should answer the question. I think a typical town issue is "I know I'm town I don't need to go out of my way to do townie things" so I was saying to him even though he knows he is town(if he is) he still needs to convince everyone else he is town. Next I still stand by there is never a point where an anti town lynch is good, is it better than a random lynch yes I understand that but we should never random lynch and MGP voted based off this "its better than a random lynch" idea. Which is ridiculous because if you find noone scummy don't vote its not like he was at deadline and said oh well this is the best because noone is scummy, he just made the attempt to start a wagon on someone quite early because "its better than random". So you claiming I have not just misunderstood but twisted his post is complete crap. Lastly my vote on sb was out of compounding frustration from multiple games and irl stuff which I took a break and came back and unvoted.
Vote: liopoil
I have played with him as scum, this is scum liopoil I'm sure of it.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
So, after being called out for it, he says this:@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
yuma, eevee, ash, and others who may have played with mcmc...what are your reactions to this bit between lio and mcmc?
I agree with lio that mcmc responded defensively. lio says that he thinks that is town!mcmc, what do you make of it or of lio's points on mcmc in general?
The only reasons you have for thinking I'm scum that I can find in that post is that you say I'm lining up my mislynches and that you dissagree with me on a few different things.
I've never seen anyone try to inflate their post count. Really tough to do, will get called out for it, and doesn't get you much towncred for being high in post counts.That's more like what? Being town or inflating my post count?@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.That's more like it!
yuma, eevee, ash, and others who may have played with mcmc...what are your reactions to this bit between lio and mcmc?
I agree with lio that mcmc responded defensively. lio says that he thinks that is town!mcmc, what do you make of it or of lio's points on mcmc in general?
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
Bolded for possible scumslip. Town then, but not now?
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
Bolded for possible scumslip. Town then, but not now?
Not a scumslip.
yep, for sure. I wasn't sure how long she had been gone for, all I knew was I didn't remember anything recently.speaking of MGP, have we heard from her at all recently?
Her last post was at 4 p.m. on Sunday. That's what, 29 hours ago? Everyone gets 48 hours before we really focus on them for disappearing, I think.
well, in a game where I was scum we lynched town!mail-mi D1 (but I think that was for lurking). The one time he was scum he got lynched D2, but then there was a way more solid case than there is now, and he hinted at being a godfather. Was also lynched in bankers I think, for similar reasons I think. I believe this lynch looks like the same lynch from bankers. I was town then and was on the wagon, and I'm not going to make the same mistake again. (of course, if he's scum I'm going to sound really silly later.) But if we lynch him and he flips scum, I'm happy, because we lynched scum, and that's gotta be good right!? (edge case: DS9 :()
Bolded for possible scumslip. Town then, but not now?
Not a scumslip.
I think you missed the part where we talked ad naseum about how it wasn't a scumslip, and were just gauging reactions to the notation.
I actually kind of like mcmc's lio case.Of course you would. Funny how he doesn't support your lynch either.
I should note that "play dumb" is a valid tactic that even vets have used. Yuma tried it in Mafia XIX. I called him out for it repeatedly.
Am I being paranoid / too thin-skinned, or is yuma going a bit out of his way to paint me in a bad light?
I find questions like this SO, SO scummy. It's like you are asking permission to pursue this line of offense against yuma.
I think Eevee is squirming a lot more than usual.
Vote: Eevee
Well I mean that's all it was, Eevee does seem a bit squirmy, but you know I do know that he is generaly inclined to squirm more than other people. He likes being viewed positively and has a curious, inquisitive nature that can come across as scummy in the sense that I tend to identify (the asking permission thing.)
Well I mean that's all it was, Eevee does seem a bit squirmy, but you know I do know that he is generaly inclined to squirm more than other people. He likes being viewed positively and has a curious, inquisitive nature that can come across as scummy in the sense that I tend to identify (the asking permission thing.)
You make him sound like a wild animal species...! But I see what you are saying. Do you think your vote was opportunistic. Or rather do you think that it could be viewed that way?
Yes, I just didn't really care, gotta vote for somebody.
So I thought a bit about Robz's most recent responses and once again they leave me feeling a bit undecided. Because I would have expected town Robz to lambast and vocally go against my points about him--even if they are solid, and I think they are.
When I think of Robz that is what I think of. Someone who when he gets under pressure as town fights extremely hard against the arguments, even when the arguments are pretty good. But Robz is a player that is constantly changing his meta, that is what makes him so good and exciting to play with! (See the last blitz game where Robz took on the vitriolic and caustic persona as mafia, something we have rarely seen from him as mafia.) So what does seeing a more level headed Robz mean? Ultimately I don't know, hence my slight undecidedness....
However, I think meta aside his actual posts and content (specifically the spiritbears flipflop, the theory confusion, the opportunistic vote on eevee, and I suppose you can add in his "sheepy" vote on mail-mi, regardless of him calling himself out on it) are all scummy regardless of his meta. So I will keep my vote on him, but I am interested in what people think his meta in this game regarding his scumminess...
A very fair portrayal of me.
Okay, so the thing about Robz is, for him the inconsistencies and unrefined play is just disinterested townie. I see the case against him, I really do, but he has been mislynched like this so often. Have we ever nailed scum Robz day 1? Of course he could be scum and banking on someone to say this but man, intentionally appearing scummy as scum to look towny is just so far-fetched he deserves it if that's the case.
So, much like in bankers beware the scummy Jimmm we were seeing was not the scum Jimmm I know, this isnt the scum Robz I know. I dont know if its everyone rallying against him all of a sudden or what, but this now reminds me of Robz in mafia noir. Annoingly scummy, but town.
I like the mail-mi lynch better. We caught him for "obvious scum play" once already, so while the case on Robz is similar, I think the same behavior is a MUCH bigger scumtell for mail-mi.
Correct, except I don't think I'm being that bad sheesh!
Mail-mi looks like a fine and useful lynch.
Alright, it's today, Vote: mail-mi. I think that's L-1, I don't remember anyone else voting or unvoting.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
So, after being called out for it, he says this:@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
This is a good point. I'm not sure why a town makes the first point. They either fight their lynch, or don't post at all, right? Does anyone have another view on this?
yuma, eevee, ash, and others who may have played with mcmc...what are your reactions to this bit between lio and mcmc?
I agree with lio that mcmc responded defensively. lio says that he thinks that is town!mcmc, what do you make of it or of lio's points on mcmc in general?
I've played with/modded mcmc enough to know that he's a tough read. That said, I think there's a different in his posting style that he can't hide when he's town/scum, and I lean town so far on D1 for him. Doesn't make him correct about lio, as mcmc is definitely one to get an idea in his head and push it hard, even if he's wrong (huh, sounds familiar...).
So I lean town!mcmc for now, but that doesn't make lio scummy.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
So, after being called out for it, he says this:@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
This is a good point. I'm not sure why a town makes the first point. They either fight their lynch, or don't post at all, right? Does anyone have another view on this?
I have actively used "scum strategies" as town when I came under suspicion. So that first post could have been a town ate, also its a way to try and stay calm instead of be "to defensive" which is always scummy.
yuma, eevee, ash, and others who may have played with mcmc...what are your reactions to this bit between lio and mcmc?
I agree with lio that mcmc responded defensively. lio says that he thinks that is town!mcmc, what do you make of it or of lio's points on mcmc in general?
Well in regard to mcmc in general this game I lean toward the town side: his vote/unvote on spiritbears a while back read townie to me (the frustration read townie that is, I think frustration is hard to come by as scum, and also somewhat hard to feign, mcmc's frustration looked genuine).
As for his response to lio... a sentence stood out to me, "It's a major issue, I think I'm always a huge scum threat which makes me an easy target for scum to lynch but it also means town is extra cautious about me" because I have felt the same way in regard to this. Based off my reputation I feel like people are always extra cautious around me and scum does try and get me mislynched, so I understand the feeling, but it is a feeling that I have rarely, if ever at all (I can't think of a time I used it as a defense, at least not as town) used before.
I do think it was an over reaction to lio's response, maybe only slightly over reactive.
As for mcmc's case on lio:
I have a hard time seeing scum actively trying to set up not only today's mislynch, but also the next day's. I just don't think that is a very viable scum strategy... If I am scum I am not thinking very much about tomorrow, my focus is on today and I'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. Playing otherwise just gets you in trouble. Maybe lio is doing it. If lio is scum I think it is more likely that he is potentially setting up two viable mislynchs for today, but I don't think he is doing that. I think he is trying to find the best lynch and is saying he thinks it is Robz, but if no one goes for that, people should look at mcmc. I don't really see anything "fishy" about that. So I disagree with his case on lio and am surprised that he is "so sure" about it...
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
So, after being called out for it, he says this:@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
This is a good point. I'm not sure why a town makes the first point. They either fight their lynch, or don't post at all, right? Does anyone have another view on this?
I have actively used "scum strategies" as town when I came under suspicion. So that first post could have been a town ate, also its a way to try and stay calm instead of be "to defensive" which is always scummy.
I'd disagree that being defensive is always scummy: town should defend themselves too when they come under fire. But I do see your point.
mcmc, I know that we play scum differently, but I never try to set up mislynches as scum. I'll think of a fakeclaim, and play like I am that role. Nothing else.
mcmc you are right that we have different scum strategies... but that isn't really the focus. The question is whether or not lio is playing scummy. I acknowledge that you might try to set up mislynches a day in advance. I really have no idea if lio does that or not. But I don't really see him doing that. Like I said above I see it more as scum hunting and trying to get a lynch through ("if not Robz today, maybe we should look at mcmc...."). Now that can be done as town or scum, but right now there isn't anything making me think that it is mafia.
mcmc you are right that we have different scum strategies... but that isn't really the focus. The question is whether or not lio is playing scummy. I acknowledge that you might try to set up mislynches a day in advance. I really have no idea if lio does that or not. But I don't really see him doing that. Like I said above I see it more as scum hunting and trying to get a lynch through ("if not Robz today, maybe we should look at mcmc...."). Now that can be done as town or scum, but right now there isn't anything making me think that it is mafia.
See my point is that I have played with liopoil as scum and do believe this is how he would act.
wow... sorry there is a very confusing run-on sentence in there...
What I am trying to say is that right now I need more than you saying "lio does this as scum, he must be scum." Even for a day1 case that isn't enough for me.
wow... sorry there is a very confusing run-on sentence in there...
What I am trying to say is that right now I need more than you saying "lio does this as scum, he must be scum." Even for a day1 case that isn't enough for me.
Understandable. Sorry I'm not working harder to present a case, drunk AMA btw
Anyone care to read our scum QT together??Serious question. We do indeed try to plan future mislynches there I think. However, I would certainly not dare to plan the next day's lynch IN THREAD the day before. And as Yuma states, it would be foolish to play the same scum game twice.
The only reasons you have for thinking I'm scum that I can find in that post is that you say I'm lining up my mislynches and that you dissagree with me on a few different things.Sorry this is not clear at all. It was intended to be a question for mcmc. In the post the only reasons you sound like you might have is that one sentence where you think I might be lining up my mislynches, and that you disagree with me about some things. Do you have any other reasons for thinking I'm scum right now?
Anyone care to read our scum QT together??Serious question. We do indeed try to plan future mislynches there I think. However, I would certainly not dare to plan the next day's lynch IN THREAD the day before. And as Yuma states, it would be foolish to play the same scum game twice.The only reasons you have for thinking I'm scum that I can find in that post is that you say I'm lining up my mislynches and that you dissagree with me on a few different things.Sorry this is not clear at all. It was intended to be a question for mcmc. In the post the only reasons you sound like you might have is that one sentence where you think I might be lining up my mislynches, and that you disagree with me about some things. Do you have any other reasons for thinking I'm scum right now?
wow... sorry there is a very confusing run-on sentence in there...
What I am trying to say is that right now I need more than you saying "lio does this as scum, he must be scum." Even for a day1 case that isn't enough for me.
Understandable. Sorry I'm not working harder to present a case, drunk AMA btw
Are you scum? ;)
no strong reasons for your suspicion, not following up harddissagree with this. while I have changed my mind a few times, I've stated reasons many times. Compare to this:
I'll vote mail-mi tomorrow (Tuesday) unless something else happens.
While he usually is lynched for lurking and such, I think there's more here.
Alright, it's today, Vote: mail-mi. I think that's L-1, I don't remember anyone else voting or unvoting.Which isn't good.
Soft deadline is what time today? Given the time difference, I'll probably not be around for it.
Mail-mi is doing his Tuesday VLA thing...do we take that into account?
I'd like to see a bit more participation from Robz -- he's one of the likely lynch candidates at this point, but he's not contributing much. A lot of one-liners. I know he was just traveling, and he's into another game, but if he's town, it's in our best interest for him to step it up a notch.
a bit lost here at the moment (focus obviously more elsewhere). Robz still seems too fine with the idea of being lynched to be scum, so i still think the mailmi lynch is way better. interested to see his defense tomorrow!
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
worried that it's likely both robz and mail-mi are town. It isn't too late to look elsewhere yet, but it will be soon.
yeah, I'd like to hear from mgp. I'm a littele surprised that ashersky is on mail-mi. He said quite a few things he found scummy about robz, but never voted. as I've said before, I don't like sudgy's vote, because it looks to me like pure sheep.
a bit lost here at the moment (focus obviously more elsewhere). Robz still seems too fine with the idea of being lynched to be scum, so i still think the mailmi lynch is way better. interested to see his defense tomorrow!
Soft deadline is what time today? Given the time difference, I'll probably not be around for it.
Mail-mi is doing his Tuesday VLA thing...do we take that into account?
I'd like to see a bit more participation from Robz -- he's one of the likely lynch candidates at this point, but he's not contributing much. A lot of one-liners. I know he was just traveling, and he's into another game, but if he's town, it's in our best interest for him to step it up a notch.
Tomorrow at 8 forum time--same time as the deadline is on Friday. PS, by soft deadline I mean we should be at a consensus by tomorrow. We dont' need to hammer at that time however. We can use the extra time til Thursday for claiming or whatever else might happen, but I think we need to be very close to a decision by tomorrow's soft deadline... like intent to hammer close.
Mail-mi is being techno free tuesday. I think that as long as he is on tomorrow afternoon we should be ok.
I get the "bad town" label so quick these days!
The big post he made after being called out a didn't sound as genuine though. Eevee was also said to be the most popular choice by scum, being named twice as often as everyone who I don't know to be town. So, not my top choice for a lynch anymore.especially since you suspect him for something in this... really the only reason you give for not suspecting him is that he was named as the most popular choice by scum? Really that is why you stopped suspecting him. Guys this is kinda a red flag on its own.... Although at the end of that post you do have him listed as fourth behind robz, mcmc, and sudgy... so maybe you meant that you didn't stop suspecting him, but just that he wasn't your top lynch choice? He probbed a lot during the mail-mi lynch and ultimately came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to support it. If mail-mi is scum I will be more suspicious of lio...
Vote: Eevee for saying something then realizing it was a bad idea to say it, so he said that it was a mistake.but not because of the case he specifically asked for and said that he missed (eevee was at 3 votes at that point), his vote on mail-mi because he wasn't saying much... compared to who? You?... I would argue that mail-mi has said more (if not a lot more) than you and then he voted again for mail-mi because this:
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.Quote"screamed scum." and then again voted mail-mi again... I think there is a potential lynch that would hit scum here...
So at this point my focus is on Robz and sudgy.
Maybe: lio, mail-mi
Possibility (but more likely a closer look tomorrow): eevee, mpg, mcmc, ahoppy
Not happening: spirit, nkirbit, yuma
let's try a vote: sudgy. People look at his posts and let me know what you think, if he is a better lynch option than robz?
I am off to bed and will be around during the deadline.
My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
2. Ashersky - 99 - the highest poster. Is one of the few players willing to go to both wagons... somewhere I could see scum being.
Do we have a deadline? Haven't seen a vote count in awhile. I think this game has gotten off to a good start (regardless of some of you feeling maybe it's slowed down).
We don't, but we should.... That is if you mean a soft deadline. I don't want to distract too much from any discussion we are having, so if you agree with this deadline you don't need to post that you agree. If you disagree, go ahead and post.
Deadline is Deadline is Friday, May 24th at 8 p.m. Forum Time. As this is a Friday and a weekend. I would again suggest that we try to make sure we have a lynch before then and weekends aren't the best for that. Since we have some time I suggest about a week from now. Wednesday, May 22 8 pm forum time. That will give us a bit of time in case we don't meet the softdeadline, but is far enough away I think we can get some good stuff down before then.
So I thought a bit about Robz's most recent responses and once again they leave me feeling a bit undecided. Because I would have expected town Robz to lambast and vocally go against my points about him--even if they are solid, and I think they are.
When I think of Robz that is what I think of. Someone who when he gets under pressure as town fights extremely hard against the arguments, even when the arguments are pretty good. But Robz is a player that is constantly changing his meta, that is what makes him so good and exciting to play with! (See the last blitz game where Robz took on the vitriolic and caustic persona as mafia, something we have rarely seen from him as mafia.) So what does seeing a more level headed Robz mean? Ultimately I don't know, hence my slight undecidedness....
However, I think meta aside his actual posts and content (specifically the spiritbears flipflop, the theory confusion, the opportunistic vote on eevee, and I suppose you can add in his "sheepy" vote on mail-mi, regardless of him calling himself out on it) are all scummy regardless of his meta. So I will keep my vote on him, but I am interested in what people think his meta in this game regarding his scumminess...
ashersky, isnt fighting day 1 (town!) wagons what town eevee likes to do? do you mean I'm scummy for opposing lynching robz?
I like your spunk, nkirbit, but it's too early to call scum pairs.
However, Yuma would have known that while this may create a case for Robz, he was in no immediate danger of being risk. To further make sure of this, Yuma was the first to suggest a definite time for a soft deadline:
My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
Hey guys,
I had a family medical emergency come up last night, so I need to drop out of my games. Sorry for the inconvenience! I sent a PM to the mods already, but I wanted to let you all know as well.
Sorry to here that, MGP.Yes
Mods: Are we proceeding with the D1 deadline as planned?
This quote from Sudgy is really problematic. Mostly because it eas perfectly announced that pressure eas going to be put on eevee. So claiming that he didn't really want eevee to know it was pressure is just not true.My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
So do you admit that your other votes were weird and sheepy? Since you only refute your eevee vote, I must assume that you agree with the rest of my comments?
This quote from Sudgy is really problematic. Mostly because it eas perfectly announced that pressure eas going to be put on eevee. So claiming that he didn't really want eevee to know it was pressure is just not true.My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
So do you admit that your other votes were weird and sheepy? Since you only refute your eevee vote, I must assume that you agree with the rest of my comments?
Vote: sudgy for using the term acti-lurking, which I hate!
My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
This struck me as a very fast response in defense of yourself, especially after being called out for acti-lurking.
Sorry this just doesn't make any sense to me. I think I agree with Eevee that. Being on the right wagon is exactly what town tries to do all the time. The kind of meta planning you are talking about just seems too far fetched.ashersky, isnt fighting day 1 (town!) wagons what town eevee likes to do? do you mean I'm scummy for opposing lynching robz?
Fighting wagons is definitely an Eevee tell. But you have been building a meta-rep for never being on the wrong wagon, ever. I feel like that could have been meta-planning for your scum games.
Vote: sudgy for using the term acti-lurking, which I hate!This is exactly why we need to lynch robz first.
Fair enough if true. But if someone rereads and it's not true, then you have no defense.This quote from Sudgy is really problematic. Mostly because it eas perfectly announced that pressure eas going to be put on eevee. So claiming that he didn't really want eevee to know it was pressure is just not true.My vote on Eevee was for pressure. I didn't mention it then because I didn't want Eevee to not be reacting under pressure.
So do you admit that your other votes were weird and sheepy? Since you only refute your eevee vote, I must assume that you agree with the rest of my comments?
I remember us saying that pressure was being put on Eevee after my vote.
Vote: sudgy for using the term acti-lurking, which I hate!This is exactly why we need to lynch robz first.
Hi.
I have been kind of following this game, but I am not up to date.
I will read the game to catch up, but I would be nice if someone could sum up the main cases.
Do we have a a deadline?
Mail-mi, you said previously that the only reason you weren't voting for him already was that he was V/LA. why did that matter to you and why did you decide that didn't matter anymore?Because I didnt want him quick lunched before he got back, but then he came back with a super scummy post, so I voted.
He wasn't close to being lynched back then. Not sure what you were worried about. Losing a partner?
Really. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.A misslynch hurts town, always. If you are town, fight your lynch, if you are scum, carry on.
So, after being called out for it, he says this:@all: sorry about not being in this game really, I will try to get into it more. Don't lynch me cuz im town and that would be bad.
(This post starts off in a random direction, but you'll see what I'm getting at here)
I've noticed a couple things about my mafia playstyle:
1. Depending on certain random conditions (availability, who I am in the game, etc.), my playstyle significantly changes. This is kind of nice usually, as it will make it harder to read me when I'm scum. But sometimes it isn't (see below)
2. I tend to make decisions without saying them in thread. This is probably a result of being an introvert. This usually isn't nice.
Now, this game, I was V/LA for the first bit. As such, it was harder to get into it later. This affected my playstyle, as I didn't want to post much. To fix this, however, I decided to force myself to post. Whatever I could. So I usually would just post a little bit at a time.
And what does that look like? Acti-lurking. I don't mean to do it, but it happened anyway.
I know that this is kind of a weird and sudden-ish defense, but I wanted to get this out there.
xeiron has subbed in for modestguineapig. Starting now.Thank you X!
Vote: Ahoppy
Gotta lynch all the lurkers.
Of course he doesn't this is just more of the same.Vote: Ahoppy
Gotta lynch all the lurkers.
Do you really think that's going to happen today?
I think none of the cases is particularly strong.
Not strong enough to make me vote yet.
Well, do need to vote for someone though, the despair of the deadline is near.I think none of the cases is particularly strong.
Not strong enough to make me vote yet.
I agree.
mail-mi (3): Eevee, sudgy, ashersky
Robz (3): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): yuma
aHoppy (1): Robz888
Not voting: AHoppy, xeiron, liopoil
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
I feel like nothing has happened this game and I don't know why.
I feel like nothing has happened this game and I don't know why.
Argh. vote: Robz
Nothing is happening because you aren't making it happen, man. Town makes things happen, scum avoids the happenings.
I feel like nothing has happened this game and I don't know why.
Argh. vote: Robz
Nothing is happening because you aren't making it happen, man. Town makes things happen, scum avoids the happenings.
But I'm complaining about things happening!
Do you really think I'm scum, really?
I feel like nothing has happened this game and I don't know why.
Argh. vote: Robz
Nothing is happening because you aren't making it happen, man. Town makes things happen, scum avoids the happenings.
But I'm complaining about things happening!
Do you really think I'm scum, really?
My heart says no, probably not. My head screams yes. Which do I believe?
I feel like nothing has happened this game and I don't know why.
Argh. vote: Robz
Nothing is happening because you aren't making it happen, man. Town makes things happen, scum avoids the happenings.
But I'm complaining about things happening!
Do you really think I'm scum, really?
My heart says no, probably not. My head screams yes. Which do I believe?
Feet.
Where is everyone??? Less than 2 hours until the deadline.
Where is everyone??? Less than 2 hours until the deadline.
Deadline is friday
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
How will you defend yourself if I am town.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
How will you defend yourself if I am town.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
How will you defend yourself if I am town.
If you are town? Scum slip?
Oh, if we lynch you and you're town. I see. I'll just say I was mistaken.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.oh man, the timing of this vote is sooo suspicious. I prefer a sudgy lynch over a robz lynch now.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
let's get reads from people! I think I've given mine. I'll go see who else has and hasn't.
Yuma made a bit of a case on me for strangely voting for Eevee (when I was trying to give him pressure), and for acti-lurking, and here was my defense for it:
12. sudgy - 34 - if there is a lurker lynch, it is probably sudgy. He has had four posts longer than three sentences, and none that were longer than three sentences. One was RVS. One was sheeping my vote on Robz, one was a vote for mail-mi and one talking about mail-mi being at L-2 and not L-1. Basically all of his votes have been weird. His sheep of me onto robz, a weird vote on eeveeQuoteVote: Eevee for saying something then realizing it was a bad idea to say it, so he said that it was a mistake.but not because of the case he specifically asked for and said that he missed (eevee was at 3 votes at that point), his vote on mail-mi because he wasn't saying much... compared to who? You?... I would argue that mail-mi has said more (if not a lot more) than you and then he voted again for mail-mi because this:QuoteReally. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum."screamed scum." and then again voted mail-mi again... I think there is a potential lynch that would hit scum here...
So at this point my focus is on Robz and sudgy.
Maybe: lio, mail-mi
Possibility (but more likely a closer look tomorrow): eevee, mpg, mcmc, ahoppy
Not happening: spirit, nkirbit, yuma
let's try a vote: sudgy. People look at his posts and let me know what you think, if he is a better lynch option than robz?
I am off to bed and will be around during the deadline.
mail-mi (1): Eevee
Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, sudgy
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (2): yuma, liopoil
aHoppy (1): Robz888
Not voting: AHoppy, xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
This is not scum Robz people! I guess he could be intentionally playing like this, but as this game shows, it's not a very good option for him and man he loves winning his scum games, so..
I'd be willing to vote sudgy now if it's going to be Robz otherwise.
I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.This is not scum Robz people! I guess he could be intentionally playing like this, but as this game shows, it's not a very good option for him and man he loves winning his scum games, so..
I'd be willing to vote sudgy now if it's going to be Robz otherwise.
I get what you are saying here... and the only problem I have with it is that I was basically saying the same thing in the last blitz game where robz was being crazy. You remember? I basically said, no way this is scum!Robz. he is attracting too much attention and basically everyone agreed with me and we let him live. But like I said before, because of this and other examples, I can't rely on meta to understand robz. I hvae to rely on behavior and right now his behavior is scummy.
Eevee let me ask you this... if this behavior were from another player--one that was brand new... lets call him ZobR... would you find it scummy? Remove the Robz meta from it and analyze it just as behavior.
Don't support the aHoppy suspicion, just come back to sud-gee Robz!
I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.
Yuma, Eevee, and anyone else who can answer this:
What does town!Robz play like? Is it this? Or does his town meta change as much as you say his scum meta does?
So far I've only heard you talk about if this Robz makes sense with other scum!Robz you have seen previously. But what about the opposite?
Yeah, I know you can't just believe me..I would! So so scummy. I think the cases on Robz and mail-mi were quite similar actually, and for Robz I thought that behavior was actually a towntell but for mail-mi a scum tell. I would in fact probably be voting for Robz now if it was anyone but Robz. I feel quite good about my abilities of distinguishing between town and scum Robz these days btw. Not in a "he is easy to catch" kind of way, but in a "I think fooling me is harder for him than fooling others is". I might just have gotten lucky though.
What about the "he's my scum partner that I chose because duh he's Robz" way? Cause this could be that, where you are saving a partner.
From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta. In a sense. It's always changing.That is actually a fair point.
Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum. My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory. Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least). In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself. And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.
Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot. Especially when I'm town.
From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta. In a sense. It's always changing.
Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum. My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory. Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least). In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself. And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.
Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot. Especially when I'm town.
This makes me want to go back to mail-mi. Or try to find a new wagon, such as mcmc.
From what I've seen, Robz doesn't have a meta. In a sense. It's always changing.
Now, something I'd like to note: in almost every single game I've played here, I've been seriously considered of being scum. My first game (MXXI) I was mislynched for a flawless scum victory. Another one (RMM7), I was scum and got lynched (although that one was one of the ones I was suspected the least). In MXXII, I would have been lynched if I hadn't managed to bring IC status to myself. And in MXXIV, people were starting to say they thought I was like I was in RMM7 but then got un-suspiciouned when I was on a scum wagon two times in a row.
Anyway, long story short: People seem to think I'm scum a lot. Especially when I'm town.
nobody hammer robz. I agree with eevee to an extent about him.
So I kinda just skimmed, I haven't been able to get back to this for a while and a lot has been discussed. I feel like I have not been participating much because I only want to participate if I'm going to have anything substantial to say, and with all the mud throwing that has been going around with very very little data, I haven't had anything I felt would be valuable to say. So I haven't. I think I'm going to go back to vote: Mai-mi since I don't see a better case against someone else. I'm not sure i can vote robz, because I have no idea what to think about him. His strange behavior comes off a little more towny to me, but really, I don't know how to read people yet, this being my first game. And being D1...
I would also like to note that the two people who are currently also possible to lynch, mail-mi and sudgy, are both voting for robz. If they are scum, I would bet robz is not. I don't realy know if this has any bearing on things though...
I understand that that's how D1 goes, which is why I will probably be more useful and participatory later (I sure hope that's a word).So I kinda just skimmed, I haven't been able to get back to this for a while and a lot has been discussed. I feel like I have not been participating much because I only want to participate if I'm going to have anything substantial to say, and with all the mud throwing that has been going around with very very little data, I haven't had anything I felt would be valuable to say. So I haven't. I think I'm going to go back to vote: Mai-mi since I don't see a better case against someone else. I'm not sure i can vote robz, because I have no idea what to think about him. His strange behavior comes off a little more towny to me, but really, I don't know how to read people yet, this being my first game. And being D1...
I know it's your first game, but I think you'll find that the bolded bit there is basically every D1 in every game. There's not much "data" available in these games, especially when the set-ups are closed. If I run a C9++ game again, you'll love the data/set-up/theory talk available in those types of open set-ups. But in these, we're looking at behaviors and trying to glean something from them.
Vote: mail-mi
If sudgy, Robz and yuma joined me, it would be L-2. We'd need mcmc (your liopoil vote not so hot at the moment!) and someone from the wagon to make it happen. I think still doable.
Yuma, you've played with Robz a bunch. This isn't scum Robz. Scum Robz isn't this easy to nail day 1. You know that.
ashersky, do you really think this is scum Robz? You've been around long enough!
Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.Because I realized I've suspected sudgy when he was town before and not suspected him when he was scum, so this play actually matches him being town narrative better.
Scum Robz never gets to L-1 day 1. Never.ashersky, do you really think this is scum Robz? You've been around long enough!
Like I said, heart says no, head (and feet) say yes.
How dumb have we all felt in the past when fooled by Robz. I'm thinking especially of the Blitz game I didn't play that Robz super supported his partner and no one believed he would do it.
If he was to, it wouldn't be a weak performance like this.Scum Robz never gets to L-1 day 1. Never.ashersky, do you really think this is scum Robz? You've been around long enough!
Like I said, heart says no, head (and feet) say yes.
How dumb have we all felt in the past when fooled by Robz. I'm thinking especially of the Blitz game I didn't play that Robz super supported his partner and no one believed he would do it.
If we never lynch robz D1 because scum!robz never gets lynched D1 then scum!robz will never be lynched D1.
If we never lynch robz D1 because scum!robz never gets lynched D1 then scum!robz will never be lynched D1.
If we never lynch robz D1 because scum!robz never gets lynched D1 then scum!robz will never be lynched D1.
Also, I made this point a page ago when I described Robz's town play. He used to get lynched D1 EVERY GAME. He's used that to his advantage to now never get lynched on D1.
{L-1} Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): liopoil
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
{L-1} Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): liopoil
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Eevee, mail-mi has 2 votes. That isn't viable. Even if I switch, that's 3, and we lose our only L-1.
PPE: sudgy -- so we lost our L-1, mail-mi is at 3.
Woah, Robz wasn't at L-1?
Also, I'll still go back to Robz if need be.
I'm not talking about 1, 3 or even 10 games. I have probably played like 50 games with him! He knows this type of play gets you lynched day 1, h wouldn't do it as scum. As town, he just shrugs it off and signs up for another game.
eevee, you've made your case for why robz is town. why is mail-mi scum?I think his behaviour is pretty similar to Robz's. We've seen scum mail-mi once, and for him the "textbook" scum stuff was actually a scum tell then. Should I go back to find yuma's case / a summary of it?
really want reads from people, especially robz.
I don't think robz lynch is going to happen guys. Let's lynch sudgy instead!
eevee, you've made your case for why robz is town. why is mail-mi scum?I think his behaviour is pretty similar to Robz's. We've seen scum mail-mi once, and for him the "textbook" scum stuff was actually a scum tell then. Should I go back to find yuma's case / a summary of it?
really want reads from people, especially robz.
Yuma ,any interest in mail-mi now that it's viable again?
I don't think robz lynch is going to happen guys. Let's lynch sudgy instead!
We're still at L-2 (I believe) and there are two people online (including you!) so said they would vote for Robz. I think it could easily either happen or not happen.
eevee, you've made your case for why robz is town. why is mail-mi scum?I think his behaviour is pretty similar to Robz's. We've seen scum mail-mi once, and for him the "textbook" scum stuff was actually a scum tell then. Should I go back to find yuma's case / a summary of it?
really want reads from people, especially robz.
Yuma ,any interest in mail-mi now that it's viable again?
Eevee, this is crazy. Here's you: "Robz's behavior means he's town." "Mail-mi's behavior is the same as Robz's behavior. That means he's scum."
Does not compute.
It should after playing so much with Robz though. It should.I don't think robz lynch is going to happen guys. Let's lynch sudgy instead!
We're still at L-2 (I believe) and there are two people online (including you!) so said they would vote for Robz. I think it could easily either happen or not happen.
Right, he was L-1 with sudgy until sudgy bailed. Either one or both voting would help.eevee, you've made your case for why robz is town. why is mail-mi scum?I think his behaviour is pretty similar to Robz's. We've seen scum mail-mi once, and for him the "textbook" scum stuff was actually a scum tell then. Should I go back to find yuma's case / a summary of it?
really want reads from people, especially robz.
Yuma ,any interest in mail-mi now that it's viable again?
Eevee, this is crazy. Here's you: "Robz's behavior means he's town." "Mail-mi's behavior is the same as Robz's behavior. That means he's scum."
Does not compute.
I guess we can agree to disagree on Robz and both vote mail-mi, yuma?
I do think it's a bit alarming that yuma disagrees with me about Robz so heavily. Like, if mail-mi or sudgy flips scum, I'll be pretty suspicious of yuma (assuming Robz is town too).
really, there are close, but not enough people who have robz as their top choice. Yuma and Nkirbit, come join me!
Anyone for an Eevee lynch? Crazy defense of Robz, odd case on mail-mi, overuse of AtE...
I don't think robz lynch is going to happen guys. Let's lynch sudgy instead!
We're still at L-2 (I believe) and there are two people online (including you!) so said they would vote for Robz. I think it could easily either happen or not happen.
Right, he was L-1 with sudgy until sudgy bailed. Either one or both voting would help.eevee, you've made your case for why robz is town. why is mail-mi scum?I think his behaviour is pretty similar to Robz's. We've seen scum mail-mi once, and for him the "textbook" scum stuff was actually a scum tell then. Should I go back to find yuma's case / a summary of it?
really want reads from people, especially robz.
Yuma ,any interest in mail-mi now that it's viable again?
Eevee, this is crazy. Here's you: "Robz's behavior means he's town." "Mail-mi's behavior is the same as Robz's behavior. That means he's scum."
Does not compute.
Anyone for an Eevee lynch? Crazy defense of Robz, odd case on mail-mi, overuse of AtE...why is that scummy?
not true yuma, there are more people willing to vote. you, me, nkirbit, robz, and maybe xeiron/mcmc/ashersky.Anyone for an Eevee lynch? Crazy defense of Robz, odd case on mail-mi, overuse of AtE...why is that scummy?
I think what he is trying to say is that Robz is a more experienced player and knowing robz, him looking like he's scum doesn't matter to robz. if robz is setting himself up constantly for future scum games, then his D1 behavior can very well be scummy as town. However, he does not think mail-mi would do the same thing, so scummy behavior from m-m is more likely to actually be scum than scummy behavior from robz.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure that eevee is saying every game where robz is scum is that mythical future game. so yes, this could be itI think what he is trying to say is that Robz is a more experienced player and knowing robz, him looking like he's scum doesn't matter to robz. if robz is setting himself up constantly for future scum games, then his D1 behavior can very well be scummy as town. However, he does not think mail-mi would do the same thing, so scummy behavior from m-m is more likely to actually be scum than scummy behavior from robz.
How do we know that this game isn't that mythical "Future Game"? Isn't that fact that you think Robz is capable of something like this at least bring up a worry that this is the game where he pulls it off?
Didn't work out all that well, if it wasn't for my "crazy defense", he would already be lynched, right?I think what he is trying to say is that Robz is a more experienced player and knowing robz, him looking like he's scum doesn't matter to robz. if robz is setting himself up constantly for future scum games, then his D1 behavior can very well be scummy as town. However, he does not think mail-mi would do the same thing, so scummy behavior from m-m is more likely to actually be scum than scummy behavior from robz.
How do we know that this game isn't that mythical "Future Game"? Isn't that fact that you think Robz is capable of something like this at least bring up a worry that this is the game where he pulls it off?
Mods, can we get more frequent vote counts as we near the deadline? Thanks.The last vote count was an HOUR ago. The one before that only 6 hours ago. I'll make vote counts as necessary, but we're doin' just fine right now.
I'll be quite busy tomorrow at this time. Actually, I don't think I'll be able to post at all tomorrow.
None really, as if someone doesn't come online, we can't know what they would have done if they did?
Well, we'd need flips from the lynch alternatives to glean anything from that, but makes it likely he isn't scum if Robz is town and the alternative wagon at the time (mail-mi?) is scum? Cant think of what else.. Some town points from me though, as I strongly believe Robz is town.None really, as if someone doesn't come online, we can't know what they would have done if they did?
He DID come online though, but didn't vote for Robz.
Well, we'd need flips from the lynch alternatives to glean anything from that, but makes it likely he isn't scum if Robz is town and the alternative wagon at the time (mail-mi?) is scum? Cant think of what else.. Some town points from me though, as I strongly believe Robz is town.None really, as if someone doesn't come online, we can't know what they would have done if they did?
He DID come online though, but didn't vote for Robz.
I'm leaning more and more town on nkirby as well, really helpful participation around the soft deadline.
Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.
gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
Mcm--
No one is buying your Lio case. Will you help us and get on either wagon or not?
I think mail-mi is town for similar reasons that you think robz is town. This is really just ordinary mail-mi play, which he has been misslynched for before.I would nominate you (as I disagree with that notion), but no, it's starting to be pretty late for that. Sliding into a nolynch would just suck so bad.
is it possible that anyone besides robz or mail-mi mightbe lynched today?
Anyone for an Eevee lynch? Crazy defense of Robz, odd case on mail-mi, overuse of AtE...
If we're trying to get a lynch through tonight, is that even an option? I seriously doubt that we could find 6 players to vote for Eevee.
No one had really answered this before, so I'll ask it again:I think we should work towards a (good) lynch asap. It's pretty clear where everyone stands, and it shouldn't be very hard to find a lynch if everyone moves their vote to their most preferred viable target.
What's the plan now? Do we want to set another soft deadline for Thursday night?
Why am I scummy for crazy defending Robz? Once again I think we area heading to a mislynch, I'm doing my best to not have that happen. Ashersky you really should know this isn't how Robz acts as scum!
Why is "my" case on mail-mi odd? Should I repeat it? How about the 5 other voters, all scummy or just me?
Overuse of AtE? Hmm, I don't know, I'm starting to be pretty emotionally invested in getting people to trust me about Robz.
Really guys, robz is town, eevee is right 100% about him. I have heard him talk about ds9 and samurai's in which he was NOT happy with his partners D1 play, also I don't even think he's being crazy scummy, crazy but not scummy. Lastly so he's not helpful at scum hunting D1, very few are, most of the newbie blame it on not being used to bigger games early on, I use the I'm terrible as town excuse, many of us are terrible unhelpful scum hunters d1. Some games were great. Robz just doesn't care to make an excuse because excuses get you lynched(bad for town) being outlandish and creating reaction(good for town) so ugh, don't lynch him.
Next OMG liopoil is scum...Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
Vote Count 1.12
{L-2} Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): liopoil
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
Agree with this 100%.Vote Count 1.12
{L-2} Robz (5): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): liopoil
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
Lio should vote for Robz and mcmc and Robz should move to mail-mi. that'll give us L-1 on Robz and L-2 on mail-mi with Xeiron to come. There are Robz voters willing to move to mail-mi and vice versa.
If we get to a clear point like that, we can weigh Robz and mail-mi reactions/claims/info/etc. before finalizing the decision.
On another soft deadline: the more soft deadlines we set, the less meaning any of them have. "Oh, I missed this one? I'll just wait for the next one."
We should lynch soon.
I think you are the only one not seeing what I'm saying. Even nkirbit who hasn't played before says he sees my point of view, but can't take my word for it without experiencing it himself. Yuma not agreeing with me is weird, but at least he just says/has a different read.Why am I scummy for crazy defending Robz? Once again I think we area heading to a mislynch, I'm doing my best to not have that happen. Ashersky you really should know this isn't how Robz acts as scum!
Why is "my" case on mail-mi odd? Should I repeat it? How about the 5 other voters, all scummy or just me?
Overuse of AtE? Hmm, I don't know, I'm starting to be pretty emotionally invested in getting people to trust me about Robz.
It's scummy in a few ways. You know you just ripped liopoil for his confidence that mail-mi is scum? Yeah, that's you and Robz. SAME THING.
It's scummy if you know he's town and you're doing this for town!cred as scum.
It's scummy if you derail the viable lynch and we hit deadline without a lynch.
Your case on mail-mi is odd because IT IS THE SAME AS THE CASE ON ROBZ and you are saying the two exact cases have different outcomes, when I'm saying it's just as likely they are both scum as it is that they aren't. You've turned this into a Morgrim defense: basically, if Morgrim derphammered, he'd just get a "oh well, that's Morgrim!" but others would get grilled. Now it's Robz being super scummy and you've giving him the "oh well, that's Robz!" instead of looking at it clearly.
You keep saying "man ash you should KNOW that Robz is town because COME ON you've played a million games with him too and should KNOW." That's an AtE for sure.
I don't want to turn the spotlight of attention to me and ashersky disagreeing (again :)). We've derailed these threads (when both being town too!) often enough for me to know better by now.
I can talk about it and feel rather strongly about my side, but somehow I think we won't agree even if we spend 3 pages arguing..
We missed the deadline, we need to get something going. I don't think mail-mi is going to happen.
Stating intent to hammer Robz888.
It's extremely unfortunate that neither mail-mi nor robz was online tonight.
I think we should give robz until tomorrow (real life time), but if he hasn't shown up by then, I would be fine hammering at that point. We can't wait forever.
It's extremely unfortunate that neither mail-mi nor robz was online tonight.
I think we should give robz until tomorrow (real life time), but if he hasn't shown up by then, I would be fine hammering at that point. We can't wait forever.
Robz was online tonight. He posted here. He posted elsewhere.
robz is online right now. I hope to hear from him before I head to bed. I still feel pretty good about this lynch
Vote Count 1.13
{L-1} Robz (6): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma, liopoil
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
unvote
See, he was being scummy!
unvote
See, he was being scummy!
Yeah, but deliberately provokingly so, not in a way I would ever actually act if I were scum, duh.
Too bad this didn't happen earlier, this is almost like we have a whole wagon with the flip to analyze on D1. I'm going to Vote: mail-mi though, we need to get a lynch going before it's too late, and he was on wagon.
Also, Robz, it's amazing how you always choose those old-school (some not quite so old) Nintendo songs.
Unvote
Did not expect this, at all. What a twist!
It's very funny that we nearly lynched an innocent child. That would've been impressive.
Out of curiosity.. did you plant the confusion with knowing that we didn't know the PRs, but didn't know why we were getting 3 PMs? Or was that a legitimate slip?
I'm going to go to bed in a few minutes. Since robz is obviously no longer my top scumread, I have Sudgy and Mail-mi at the top of my list, but I have to re-evaluate. I'll be around most of the day tomorrow since I'm now done exams.
Regina spies a new face. Friend or foe? She struts up to this New Kid to see what her story is...
Regina: Why don't I know you?
Cady: I'm new. I just moved here from Africa.
Regina: What?
Cady: I used to be home-schooled.
Regina: Wait... what?
Cady: My mom taught me at home...
True story, kids, Robz is Cady Heron, your Student body-aligned New Kid.
It's very funny that we nearly lynched an innocent child. That would've been impressive.
unvote
See, he was being scummy!
Yeah, but deliberately provokingly so, not in a way I would ever actually act if I were scum, duh.
But because you'd never do that on purpose, you could be doing it on purpose!
Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
I thought it was a bad lynch, yes. That's because I thought he was more likely to be town than other players. and I was right. If I'm suspicious for that, Eevee is way more suspicious.
I'll take a look at Yuma and Ashersky later today.
Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
It's a scummy position because you seemed (to me) pretty sure it was a bad lynch.
Sudgy doesn't have any town points with me, so he's probably in the would lynch portion of my reads.
Vote Count 1.13
{L-1} Robz (6): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma, liopoil
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
SB is town. Confused town, but town. Nkiribit, this is his first game, so it's hard to gauge anything. Ashersky I thought was at least understandable in his anti-me case. Yuma on the other hand, I thought was hiding behind that "Robz did this in that other blitz game!" argument. Mail-mi, it's hard to read anything into him, because he's the alt lynch, of course he should vote for me. Lio and sudgy looking pretty scummy tho!
Alleviated a bit by ash's second post on the matter, although I'm just now realizing I'm way way too eager to give towncred for people for agreeing with me. Actually there might be something there. This is starting to remind me of mafia noir ashersky with our totally unreasonable day 1 arguments I later forgot to town's demise. I'll pull up some quotes when I get to my computer after my weekly floorball thing (so later tonight).
Really freaking glad I was right about robz and also that we have an interested town robz to work with now. This is just great. m
I thought it was a bad lynch, yes. That's because I thought he was more likely to be town than other players. and I was right. If I'm suspicious for that, Eevee is way more suspicious.unvote
I'll take a look at Yuma and Ashersky later today.
Wow unvote that was... eventful. In a good way. Well, seeing as I'm one of the lynch canidates, and sudgy looks like the other one, I'll put down a vote: sudgyI take it you don't see the IC's pick as viable?
Unofficial Vote Count 1.1x
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (4): Eevee, AHoppy, Sudgy, Ashersky
Yuma (1): Robz
Sudgy (4): Liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron
Not voting: spiritbears, nkirbit
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
This is such a weasely, scummy post.Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
This is such a weasely, scummy post.Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
I don't get why Lio is viewing Sudgy as scummy here? Isn't that exactly what Lio was doing? Going back and forth between the Robz and Sudgy lynch to see which would go through?
Why am I scummy for crazy defending Robz? Once again I think we area heading to a mislynch, I'm doing my best to not have that happen. Ashersky you really should know this isn't how Robz acts as scum!
Why is "my" case on mail-mi odd? Should I repeat it? How about the 5 other voters, all scummy or just me?
Overuse of AtE? Hmm, I don't know, I'm starting to be pretty emotionally invested in getting people to trust me about Robz.
It's scummy in a few ways. You know you just ripped liopoil for his confidence that mail-mi is scum? Yeah, that's you and Robz. SAME THING.
It's scummy if you know he's town and you're doing this for town!cred as scum.
It's scummy if you derail the viable lynch and we hit deadline without a lynch.
Your case on mail-mi is odd because IT IS THE SAME AS THE CASE ON ROBZ and you are saying the two exact cases have different outcomes, when I'm saying it's just as likely they are both scum as it is that they aren't. You've turned this into a Morgrim defense: basically, if Morgrim derphammered, he'd just get a "oh well, that's Morgrim!" but others would get grilled. Now it's Robz being super scummy and you've giving him the "oh well, that's Robz!" instead of looking at it clearly.
You keep saying "man ash you should KNOW that Robz is town because COME ON you've played a million games with him too and should KNOW." That's an AtE for sure.
I don't want to turn the spotlight of attention to me and ashersky disagreeing (again :)). We've derailed these threads (when both being town too!) often enough for me to know better by now.<
I can talk about it and feel rather strongly about my side, but somehow I think we won't agree even if we spend 3 pages arguing..
I guess I'm coming across wrong. I can understand where you are coming from. That's why I've said my heart yearns for Robz to be town. But my brain can't ignore the signs that Robz is scummy. You and I agree that scummy =/= mafia, but man, it's D1 (productive one at that!) and there's not a lot to go on.
I've mentioned that I think there are cases on both Robz and mail-mi. I don't expect to convince you on Robz, and I think you won't convince me that Robz is obvtown. And really, I'm okay with the mail-mi lynch. So I don't know why we're arguing.
If mail-mi is lynched and town though, man you are getting a lot of attention on D2.
I have an idea, I don't know how good it is. We need a lynch. Quickly. From the vote count, me, mail-mi, and yuma all seem like they might be lynched. This isn't good when we're a day from the deadline.we have time to come to a consensus. We will not no lynch.
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but maybe we should have Robz pick who to lynch and we lynch that person. I can see why this could be a bad idea, but we need to avoid a no lynch.
Now, could someone actually say a case on me so that I can respond to it? All I can say at the moment is that I'm town, and nothing else because I don't see anything wrong (other than things I've already mentioned and switching from mail-mi and Robz, and I only did that because I didn't want to no lynch). I would like you who think I'm scum to actually say why you think I'm scum. That's a lot more helpful than saying I'm scum.
I have an idea, I don't know how good it is. We need a lynch. Quickly. From the vote count, me, mail-mi, and yuma all seem like they might be lynched. This isn't good when we're a day from the deadline.
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but maybe we should have Robz pick who to lynch and we lynch that person. I can see why this could be a bad idea, but we need to avoid a no lynch.
Now, could someone actually say a case on me so that I can respond to it? All I can say at the moment is that I'm town, and nothing else because I don't see anything wrong (other than things I've already mentioned and switching from mail-mi and Robz, and I only did that because I didn't want to no lynch). I would like you who think I'm scum to actually say why you think I'm scum. That's a lot more helpful than saying I'm scum.
I chose you because you're the IC. I didn't even notice that you weren't advocating my lynch.Comeon. That's just not believeable
Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
Vote Count 1.14SB, this votecount is recent, but inaccuate. Before this post, xeiron voted for sudgy, and after it, robz did. I believe he is at 5 votes, but I agree with waiting for a new votecount.
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy, ashersky
sudgy: (3)liopoil, mail-mi, yuma
yuma: (2)Robz888, xeiron
Not voting: spiritbears, nkirbit
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
I'll hammer. But I need to hear a claim from Sudgy firstAlso, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Back, caught up. This is scum talking.
vote: sudgy
Anyone with intent to hammer? Deadline approaches.
I'm on the bus currently, will post more from a computer in a bit.
why is that scummy? I wouldn't claim unless I was in such a situation, regardless of alignment.I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Back, caught up. This is scum talking.
Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Back, caught up. This is scum talking.
vote: sudgy
Anyone with intent to hammer? Deadline approaches.
I'm on the bus currently, will post more from a computer in a bit.
Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Back, caught up. This is scum talking.
vote: sudgy
Anyone with intent to hammer? Deadline approaches.
I'm on the bus currently, will post more from a computer in a bit.
Ash and I are scumbuddies! :O [/joking]
Anyway, am I really at L-1? I thought I needed a couple more votes. Also, I can't even defend myself (as I've already said multiple times) until someone says what I've done wrong.
You said l-1 and intent. Well I intend and you still don't answer. Last chanceAlso, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
Back, caught up. This is scum talking.
vote: sudgy
Anyone with intent to hammer? Deadline approaches.
I'm on the bus currently, will post more from a computer in a bit.
Ash and I are scumbuddies! :O [/joking]
Anyway, am I really at L-1? I thought I needed a couple more votes. Also, I can't even defend myself (as I've already said multiple times) until someone says what I've done wrong.
Which means, someone has to make something to make me defend.for me to defend*
Vote Count 1.12Doesn't compute
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
yuma (1): Robz,
sudgy (L-1): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz, ashersky
Not voting: nkirbit, spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
Vote Count 1.12Doesn't compute
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy, sudgy
yuma (1): Robz,
sudgy (L-1): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz, ashersky
Not voting: nkirbit, spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Friday, May 24th.
12. sudgy - 34 - if there is a lurker lynch, it is probably sudgy. He has had four posts longer than three sentences, and none that were longer than three sentences. One was RVS. One was sheeping my vote on Robz, one was a vote for mail-mi and one talking about mail-mi being at L-2 and not L-1. Basically all of his votes have been weird. His sheep of me onto robz, a weird vote on eeveeQuoteVote: Eevee for saying something then realizing it was a bad idea to say it, so he said that it was a mistake.but not because of the case he specifically asked for and said that he missed (eevee was at 3 votes at that point), his vote on mail-mi because he wasn't saying much... compared to who? You?... I would argue that mail-mi has said more (if not a lot more) than you and then he voted again for mail-mi because this:QuoteReally. Who would choose me as a partner? Did you even see me in the Ninjas game? I suck at scum."screamed scum." and then again voted mail-mi again... I think there is a potential lynch that would hit scum here...
(This post starts off in a random direction, but you'll see what I'm getting at here)lio found this post of yours to be suspicious due to the timing:
I've noticed a couple things about my mafia playstyle:
1. Depending on certain random conditions (availability, who I am in the game, etc.), my playstyle significantly changes. This is kind of nice usually, as it will make it harder to read me when I'm scum. But sometimes it isn't (see below)
2. I tend to make decisions without saying them in thread. This is probably a result of being an introvert. This usually isn't nice.
Now, this game, I was V/LA for the first bit. As such, it was harder to get into it later. This affected my playstyle, as I didn't want to post much. To fix this, however, I decided to force myself to post. Whatever I could. So I usually would just post a little bit at a time.
And what does that look like? Acti-lurking. I don't mean to do it, but it happened anyway.
I know that this is kind of a weird and sudden-ish defense, but I wanted to get this out there.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
I have an idea, I don't know how good it is. We need a lynch. Quickly. From the vote count, me, mail-mi, and yuma all seem like they might be lynched. This isn't good when we're a day from the deadline.
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but maybe we should have Robz pick who to lynch and we lynch that person. I can see why this could be a bad idea, but we need to avoid a no lynch.
Now, could someone actually say a case on me so that I can respond to it? All I can say at the moment is that I'm town, and nothing else because I don't see anything wrong (other than things I've already mentioned and switching from mail-mi and Robz, and I only did that because I didn't want to no lynch). I would like you who think I'm scum to actually say why you think I'm scum. That's a lot more helpful than saying I'm scum.
I think we should do a pop's style quiz of reads later in the day. I can see mgp's point and that we maybe shouldn't do it right away.
(This post starts off in a random direction, but you'll see what I'm getting at here)
I've noticed a couple things about my mafia playstyle:
1. Depending on certain random conditions (availability, who I am in the game, etc.), my playstyle significantly changes. This is kind of nice usually, as it will make it harder to read me when I'm scum. But sometimes it isn't (see below)
2. I tend to make decisions without saying them in thread. This is probably a result of being an introvert. This usually isn't nice.
Now, this game, I was V/LA for the first bit. As such, it was harder to get into it later. This affected my playstyle, as I didn't want to post much. To fix this, however, I decided to force myself to post. Whatever I could. So I usually would just post a little bit at a time.
And what does that look like? Acti-lurking. I don't mean to do it, but it happened anyway.
I know that this is kind of a weird and sudden-ish defense, but I wanted to get this out there.
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but maybe we should have Robz pick who to lynch and we lynch that person. I can see why this could be a bad idea, but we need to avoid a no lynch.
Why wasn't he on Robz's bandwagon earlier? He could have switched over when Robz was on 4 or 5 votes, but didn't. Do we have a good explanation for this?
Gah, Vote: Robz888. This is getting kind of annoying, but his recent posts have been a bit scummier and it seems more people are willing to lynch him than others.
Also, xeiron, we're going to need you to vote soon anyway. We need to get a lynch somehow.
what do people think of the VT claim?
also, sudgy, if you are actually town, make sure to make a complete read list before you are lynched.
Yeah, I see what you're saying now, and I think you're right that a scum would have incentive to claim a PR. But if a scum knows we know that, he would want to claim a VT, at least occasionally.It's times like this it would be helpful for robz to be a little more helpful.....
I guess this weakens my read on Sudgy slightly. Are you the same way?
Oh, I missed your post where you talked about it. My bad.No problem. Yes I still think it's a good lynch but wanted to make sure IC still thinks so. I won't be on probably when deadline arrives so I'm hoping to hear a bit more first. If I'm not on are you willing to hammer still?
Ashersky: He seems to be normal, I noticed him "testing the waters" on Eevee, and he sheeped my vote on mail-mi. He was also on the Robz wagon, and now on mine. Like he's trying to find some mislynch on me. The strangest thing I noticed about him, is that while he's modded three games I've been in, he's dead wrong here. This is actually enough for me to Vote: ashersky, although I know it's a bit late. But seriously consider his actions coming up.
Ashersky: He seems to be normal, I noticed him "testing the waters" on Eevee, and he sheeped my vote on mail-mi. He was also on the Robz wagon, and now on mine. Like he's trying to find some mislynch on me. The strangest thing I noticed about him, is that while he's modded three games I've been in, he's dead wrong here. This is actually enough for me to Vote: ashersky, although I know it's a bit late. But seriously consider his actions coming up.
Well, you know what their alignments are so u can sort of figure out how they play scum/town.Ashersky: He seems to be normal, I noticed him "testing the waters" on Eevee, and he sheeped my vote on mail-mi. He was also on the Robz wagon, and now on mine. Like he's trying to find some mislynch on me. The strangest thing I noticed about him, is that while he's modded three games I've been in, he's dead wrong here. This is actually enough for me to Vote: ashersky, although I know it's a bit late. But seriously consider his actions coming up.
I also don't entirely see how him modding games you were in is that relevant. Sure, he knows what you were in those games, but he also never learned how to read you while modding those games... he wouldn't have had to think as critically about your actions while modding you because he already knew you were town, or scum, or whatever you were that game. I haven't modded a game, so I can't say for sure, but I would guess you learn much more about how to read a player from playing with them than modding them.
Well, you know what their alignments are so u can sort of figure out how they play scum/town.Ashersky: He seems to be normal, I noticed him "testing the waters" on Eevee, and he sheeped my vote on mail-mi. He was also on the Robz wagon, and now on mine. Like he's trying to find some mislynch on me. The strangest thing I noticed about him, is that while he's modded three games I've been in, he's dead wrong here. This is actually enough for me to Vote: ashersky, although I know it's a bit late. But seriously consider his actions coming up.
I also don't entirely see how him modding games you were in is that relevant. Sure, he knows what you were in those games, but he also never learned how to read you while modding those games... he wouldn't have had to think as critically about your actions while modding you because he already knew you were town, or scum, or whatever you were that game. I haven't modded a game, so I can't say for sure, but I would guess you learn much more about how to read a player from playing with them than modding them.
Vote: Sudgy
I hope we're right.
day1 post count!
posting quickly so that this is towards the top of day2 before I leave to an Arrested Development party!!!
1. Yuma - 93
2. Ashersky - 151
3. mail-mi - 44
4. Eevee - 79
5. liopoil - 122
6. Robz888 - 607. nkirbit - 109
8. AHoppy - 21
9. modestguineapig/xeiron - 25+5=30
10. mcmcsalot - 50
11. spiritbears - 7012. sudgy - 76
Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
What's with D1 newbie hammerers getting NKed N1? That seems to be a trend. Who does that?totally. But that NK made sense. Everyone had a solid townread on nkirbit.
Robz, where are you? Start leading, man.
I think mcmc would be a good lynch becauseVote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
ahoppy is my good guess.
ahoppy is my good guess.
Off-lynch, low post count are both there in his favor...any scummy behavior you'd like to note to back this up?
I think mcmc would be a good lynch because
- Post count (I also fall under this category)
- Off-wagon
- And he's a freaking awesome scum player and I would not hesitate to choose him.
PPE: post count. I did one of those too and got slightly different numbers... but nkirbit being largely unsuspected and a big contributer is a good reason for him to be NKed.
Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
I think this applies especially to yuma as he prides himself with his ability to realize when people are town (probably due to the fact he got mislynched so often at one point).
Should really do a big reread of this game, it's the only one I'm in and the catastrophe of the last game has me super motivated to redeem myself / town's of f.Ds in general. *checks how many pages this thread has* ... aww 40 is a lot, but I really think it would help a TON as we have essentially three flips already.
Really guys, robz is town, eevee is right 100% about him. I have heard him talk about ds9 and samurai's in which he was NOT happy with his partners D1 play, also I don't even think he's being crazy scummy, crazy but not scummy. Lastly so he's not helpful at scum hunting D1, very few are, most of the newbie blame it on not being used to bigger games early on, I use the I'm terrible as town excuse, many of us are terrible unhelpful scum hunters d1. Some games were great. Robz just doesn't care to make an excuse because excuses get you lynched(bad for town) being outlandish and creating reaction(good for town) so ugh, don't lynch him.
Next OMG liopoil is scum...Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
Mcm--
No one is buying your Lio case. Will you help us and get on either wagon or not?
No I won't, I think robz is town, mail-mi probably because liopoil is smart if liopoil flips scum(I think he will) he wants it to look like he for some reason wouldn't lynch mail-mi if it really came down to it(Tying to a townie)
Now that piratemafia is over and we know mail-mi was scum there, isn't he playing sort of similar there? I remember thinking "man, is it just his general playstyle?" when he was my top suspect in both games at once, but now that I know he was scum there, I sort of feel better about this suspicion.
Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
my gut instinct is to look on-wagon... because for me it isn't 5 v 4 it is 4 v 4--as I know that I am town and can eliminate myself.
And after Bankers Insomniac--and my own independent research--convinced me that scum teams tend to NK on the same side of the wagon as the majority of their players, partially for WIFOM implications.
But ultimately what Bankers taught me was that it is stupid to hold to this sort of thinking and limit yourself to only looking at one side of the wagon over the other.
My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
How do you read mcmc this game?
And sb?
My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
How do you read mcmc this game?
And sb?
Sb def town. Mcmc not so sure.
Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
my gut instinct is to look on-wagon... because for me it isn't 5 v 4 it is 4 v 4--as I know that I am town and can eliminate myself.
And after Bankers Insomniac--and my own independent research--convinced me that scum teams tend to NK on the same side of the wagon as the majority of their players, partially for WIFOM implications.
But ultimately what Bankers taught me was that it is stupid to hold to this sort of thinking and limit yourself to only looking at one side of the wagon over the other.
Fair enough. For me, finding scum in {liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron} or in {mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears}...I have stronger scum reads in that second group.
But man, 3 scum in those 8? That really seems like a lot of scum. Are we sure a game this small wouldn't dictate just 2 scum?
My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
Vote Count 1.13
{L-1} Robz (6): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma, liopoil (+sudgy)
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy,sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
_____________________________________________________________________
Vote Count Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
I strongly agree with this Yuma. Robz, we really need you to step up. Even if you just step up being robz i(yot would help.My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
I am right there with you. But right now you are our IC. So while I don't think you are expected to just find scum and have the rest of us sheep you, we do need someone that we know we can trust to figure out soft deadlines, mass claiming (if needed down the road), and be the main inquisitor in asking questions, probing, etc, etc. I think you and I already try and do that in every game I am in, but since no one else knows our alignments in those other games everything we say isn't always believed or used to its full potential because some people inevitably believe we are scum misguiding town... IC is a hard role, as you know, but I have full confidence in you despite both our shaky showings in recent games as town.
I will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.
Sorry I was so out of this game. Robz how do you feel about liopoil, you said you liked my case before, I still think its good.
I will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.Not sure how you possibly could have missed this. Strains credulity....
oooooooohkay, vote: liopoil still totally think he is scum.Oh man, this is terrible. Let me show you why:
ugh robz claimed something... i will reread tomorow
I will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.These posts show that you have not been paying attention at all this game. IF you are not paying attention, how in the world can you have solid reads, when you haven't even noticed:
Robz is Cady Heron, your Student body-aligned New Kid.
I mean, he isn't 'off the hook', I still want him to read and contribute of course. I just don't currently find him scummy for it. However, that gives him a motive (if he's scum) to not contribute. So if it's something that continues and I think it could be a valid scum strategy, it will become something to be found scummy for. It's really always a question of if the player is intentionally not contributing or not.
Vote Count 1.13
{L-1} Robz (6): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma, liopoil (+sudgy)
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
AHoppy (1): Robz888
mail-mi (3): Eevee, AHoppy,sudgy
Not voting: xeiron
_____________________________________________________________________
Vote Count Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
If we are going to wagon analyze, why not include Robz' wagon as well. It would have been a lynch had he not claimed IC (well, maybe some other fancy claim could have saved him as well).
On both wagons: mail-mi, nkirbit, ashersky, yuma, liopoil,
Only on Robz: spiritbears, sudgy
Only on Sudgy: Xeiron, Robz
On neighter: mcmcsalot, eevee, Ahoppy
My guess is that we find two scum among those who where on both wagons, and one off wagons.
the highest poster. Is one of the few players willing to go to both wagons... somewhere I could see scum being.
Ashersky is really hard to read. although, I don't think I've ever seen scum!ash, so there's that. I was right there with you in the "ashersky is obvscum" camp in bankers.
Lastly, knowing that Robz is IC makes reading through the thread again and seeing all of his posts pretty hilarious... Was the when/if "scumslip" that ash called out a deliberate slip?
Total Mentions:This is the number of mentions for scum partners when we did that survey earlier. Note how the lynch and NK are both at 0, and a third confirmed town at 1. This probably isn't useful, but this chart may still come in handy.
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
Also, hilarious that you now think I'm being "better town." Here's the formula for town!ashersky: post a lot, suggest some sort of claiming scheme, gain lots of suspicion, self-vote, unvote, get called out for unvoting the self-vote, self-vote again, catch scum but fail to be believed. Next time I'm scum, I'm going to try and fake it.So far he's on path to match this formula. Could this be that faking it he hints at in the future? hmm...
I'm really interested in seeing how mail-mi proceeds to play (won't comment further on this, as it would be very dumb to tell him how he should act so I'd think he's towny).Saying he won't advise m-m on how he should play to not come off as scummy. However, later he analyzes liopoil's game:
I just laid out all my thoughts, but I have some free time now, I guess I could reread someone. liopoil? Lets do liopoil.The bolded part, he gives liopoil advice on how to be more towny (make some waves).
49 posts, 9 of them pre game.
-Criticizes RVS. I agree with this.
-Says ge would have chosen Eevee and MGPReally liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)This was when liopoil himself only had posted theory and nothing about individual players.
-This was liopoil's idea but for me it's a null tell as scum could propose it quite easily knowing the mods wouldn't let it happen.As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.uh-oh, I think we can break the game by paraphrasing the flavour in our second PM. (or at least make one IC). This is kinda similar to the station-aligned thing in DS9. I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....
Interestingly liopoils 15th post (I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.) is the first one where he comments anything on any other player (instead of strategy, theory or jokes or praising how fast the game is moving).
-Good point in my opinion.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
-what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.Town points for this. The MGP witchhunt was running rampant (for no good reason imo), and mafia could have wanted to fan the flames by staying out of it or even joining them mob (assuming MGP is town).
-Suspects me but wants to hold off from voting so that his vote will eventually mean more.
At this point he does the reread and puts some thoughts down on people and I agree with most of the conclusions / point he makes. Comparing our lists, mine (top to bottom scum)
mail-mi
liopoil
ashersky
sudgy
mcmc
Robz
yuma
MGP
nkirbit
AHoppy
spiritbears
and his
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
we seem to mostly agree. So, had I reread him before that big post, I would have been seriously suspected him for posting a lot but never saying anything until now, but it makes sense to need a reread to form an opinion so I'm fine with him now. Don't get a townread from anything, but not a scummy feel either. I'd move him to the middle of the pack in an updated list. Liopoil, I'd advice you to try to avoid just talking theory and taking more stances on people even without rereads (as the situations arise). The cautious way you've been playing (no voting at all!) makes it seem like you are trying to stay out of trouble.
Total Mentions:
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
except that scum didn't necessarily tell the truth about who they would pick.True.
Yet another unpressured town claim :P
Why? You've done nothing but tunnel her this game.Yet another unpressured town claim :P
Eevee/liopoil scum team, I think so. I had suspicions of eevee that were put out if mind because he responded well. But scum can respond very well and townie when given the chance. The fact that I had suspicions in the first place still hold true.
Out of these two I would very much like to lynch liopoil first.
Total Mentions:
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eevee
it's only slightly better than random lynch now that I think about it... So yeah, let's not do that.
Yeeehaaaw!!!"Nice touch.
Okay how about this, eevee/liopoil/spiritbears. Eevee is the most popular pick(makes sense to be picked and fills vet requirement many people mentioned) liopoil also highly popular pick(fits nicely in the middle of vet and newbie) spirit I have already said he makes an easily defendable partner due to his past of being a confuse townie(fills in the newbie scum pick)
In that team composition(vet/middle/newbie) I would expect to see the vet take a laid back passive approach, the middle to take and aggressive approach, and the newbie to try to look like town.
Also liopoil has been buddying eevee a lot, I don't remember town!liopoil buddying many people(full disclosure I can't remember scum!liopoil doing it either)
Lastly someone said spirit seemed like town because he was playing similarly, but I find him slightly scummy for pushing robz pretty hard, I know I missed some stuff but if I remember correctly spiritbears pushed the robz lynch quite a bit, that fits something a newbie scum player would do.
ugh robz claimed something... i will reread tomorow
I will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.
oooooooohkay, vote: liopoil still totally think he is scum.
okay I did not reread as fully as I said I would, I skimmed but I did reevaluate my case on liopoil and came back to voting him. I will post a nicer looking case and fully read when I'm not trying to save my house from the elements(there is a tornado watch for east lansing, and my basement which has already flooded once is currently below the water table)
Yet another unpressured town claim :P
Eevee/liopoil scum team, I think so. I had suspicions of eevee that were put out if mind because he responded well. But scum can respond very well and townie when given the chance. The fact that I had suspicions in the first place still hold true.
Out of these two I would very much like to lynch liopoil first.
Okay how about this, eevee/liopoil/spiritbears. Eevee is the most popular pick(makes sense to be picked and fills vet requirement many people mentioned) liopoil also highly popular pick(fits nicely in the middle of vet and newbie) spirit I have already said he makes an easily defendable partner due to his past of being a confuse townie(fills in the newbie scum pick)
In that team composition(vet/middle/newbie) I would expect to see the vet take a laid back passive approach, the middle to take and aggressive approach, and the newbie to try to look like town.
Also liopoil has been buddying eevee a lot, I don't remember town!liopoil buddying many people(full disclosure I can't remember scum!liopoil doing it either)
Lastly someone said spirit seemed like town because he was playing similarly, but I find him slightly scummy for pushing robz pretty hard, I know I missed some stuff but if I remember correctly spiritbears pushed the robz lynch quite a bit, that fits something a newbie scum player would do.
your all wrong on me entirely, sorry im not paying attention my freaking basement is flooded because I lost power due to the thunderstorm that came with the tornado that hit last yesterday. When your power goes out your sub pump stops working and when that happens your basement floods so you want me to /out I will(i'll be pissed because I actually think I'm right) I'll make my case "pretty" and more fact based when I can reread I'm trying to stay a part of the conversation in the meantime(even when its just repeating what i've said)
For me tunneling is persistent and over an extended period of time while completely ignoring other solid other cases and rebuttles.
and now we are all jumping on you. Sorry if you feel like you are being attacked. Wish I lived close enough to come help you out!Yes. IRL I would help you if I could at all, as I'm sure most folks on here would.
unvote on mgp. I guess I am a bit surprised that so many people are strongly declaring both mgp and sb to be town... Seems like it is the cool thing to do.this is from a long time ago, but I don't understand why he unvoted here... just because everyone else is doing it?
No. To clarify I originally voted mpg because I thought she did something scummy and wanted to investigate it further.unvote on mgp. I guess I am a bit surprised that so many people are strongly declaring both mgp and sb to be town... Seems like it is the cool thing to do.this is from a long time ago, but I don't understand why he unvoted here... just because everyone else is doing it?
however, I thought I remembered having a reason for finding yuma scummy, but failed to find one. the above is the only significant thing.
but it does mean I am going to focus on you a bit more, because it stands out (see my post above), hence the vote and the inquiries.I focused on her for a bit and felt she reacted ok and unvoted. I didn't unvote because of everyone else. What I did was unvote and then express surprise at the "strong" reads people were expressing at that juncture in the game.
No. To clarify I originally voted mpg because I thought she did something scummy and wanted to investigate it further.unvote on mgp. I guess I am a bit surprised that so many people are strongly declaring both mgp and sb to be town... Seems like it is the cool thing to do.this is from a long time ago, but I don't understand why he unvoted here... just because everyone else is doing it?
however, I thought I remembered having a reason for finding yuma scummy, but failed to find one. the above is the only significant thing.but it does mean I am going to focus on you a bit more, because it stands out (see my post above), hence the vote and the inquiries.I focused on her for a bit and felt she reacted ok and unvoted. I didn't unvote because of everyone else. What I did was unvote and then express surprise at the "strong" reads people were expressing at that juncture in the game.
Total Mentions:
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eevee
Say what? I know you missed most of day1, but I'll have you remember that this is day2. Your vote here is completely ignoring everything that we have learned from yesterday! And I would say that we learned a fair amount...
Your vote above might have been a good idea say during RVS or immediately after it yesterday. But today!?! No. Not w/o anything else to back up an eevee lynch, and from your posts above it appears you don't have anything else to back it up.
vote: xeiron for proposing a completely anti-town suggestion that I am surprised no one has yet called him out for, and for doing it in a scummy way (shortly after I started suggesting that others take a look at xeiron).
he doesn't get a pass. I mean he should have and did get a pass late day1. That is fair, coming in ~ 24 hours from the deadline. He shouldn't be accountable for stuff from mpg specifically (because he can't know her thought process or anything else.) But we should take into account the general... I can't think of the right word... aura?... that surrounded her before she left. If she seemed townie overall or if she seemed scummy overall.
And you have to remember that the quote that lio pulled was like 3 days into the game... compared to my quote from today during day2. Reads change man.
he doesn't get a pass. I mean he should have and did get a pass late day1. That is fair, coming in ~ 24 hours from the deadline. He shouldn't be accountable for stuff from mpg specifically (because he can't know her thought process or anything else.) But we should take into account the general... I can't think of the right word... aura?... that surrounded her before she left. If she seemed townie overall or if she seemed scummy overall.
And you have to remember that the quote that lio pulled was like 3 days into the game... compared to my quote from today during day2. Reads change man.
True. But how much of a read did any of us have on xeiron? That's why I was asking how you were treating the changeover from mgp to him.
Your answer was fine, I guess.
I've maintained a slightly more scum read on mgp/x but I think the case is still pretty weak. The eevee thing is weird though.
Mc I'm afraid may be town just playing a bad game. Which means at least some of my town reads (Yuma, ash, Lio, evee) HAVE to be off. (Null read Ahoppy, and Mai)..I don't like this position. I feel like we haven't really learned anything and we are down 2 townies....
I'm ready to Vote: Robz888In his 48th post he is confident enought to to vote robz.
We gotta get this game rolling again, soft deadline on wednesday and we've hardly discussed any cases! Robz is currently my top lynch candidate, and now that I've re-read I'm confident enough to put a vote down.
Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc.
Yeah, Vote: Robz888. I do not support this lynch but it is better than mail-mi. L-1 now, please no derphammers.
Ahoppy, xeiron, mcmc, robz, wanna vote? I know mcmc and robz are already voting, but ahoppy isn't getting lynched and mcmc, your vote has been on me for ages and nobody has joined you.
Don't claim until someone states intent to hammer robz.
really, right now we need to hear from robz and xeiron.
You are not caught up, you have not read, and you have not looked at anyone besides myself. Please place informed votes, thanks.
good luck finding mcmc's case on me...
I don't say "I know I'm town" to defend myself, (because that's a terrible defense), I say it as a line of reasoning. Granted, it's not a great line of reasoning, because you guys can't trust it.
second I KNOW nobody has done a re-read of me because nobody has mentioned the REAL reasons a person might find me scummy. for instance, I have been incredibly inconsistant this game, and that would be evident upon a re-read. I am still waiting for your case on me, mcmc.
I'm lining up my misslynches? what I said: "Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc." Anyone of any alignment would say that about their second choice for a lynch. Robz has been getting by far the most attention, and that's good. You haven't been getting enough attention. this statement makes just as much sense to be made as town or scum
I am also way way way behind. I know SB isn't scum, I doubt mcmc is scum but he has fooled me countless times, and... yeah. Probably down for a xeiron or lio lynch. Know I'm going to be wrong no matter what.More of this please! (Analysis and telling us where you're at, i am not commenting on how you see me)
also, a mistake we've made in previous games is to only look at interactions from the current day, and forget about what happened previously. bad idea! that makes all the days essentially D1. So, let's re-read! I did some reading of over the night because I wasn't in pirates, but I need to do some more.This is so true, but I haven't even been able to follow this day.. I'll be spending 5 hours on a bus on saturday, planning on rereading day 1 then!
Okay, reading through day 2 and commenting.Not sure whst so could have done differently. I supported the lunch but agreed with those that wanted to give Sudgy s chance to defend himself. I knew I wouldnt be on at deadline, but nk assured me he would and would drop the hammer if need be. (Sudgy was at l-1) I dis contribute (plenty I think) to the discussion and would have followed our IC into that lynch if the time had worked out different.
Final votevount:
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
I kind of don't like how mcmc, sudgy and spirit planted their votes in places where they were surely not contributing to our lynch. I didn't join the sudgy-wagon because his defense "I always seem scummy to you when I'm town and you don't even notice me when I'm scum" really hit home to me. Mail-mi would have been a better lynch in my opinion, but I don't think anyone should have "known" sudgy was town so not fos'ing there.
Just by pure math 1 off 2 on seems most likely, but I don't know. I think it's noteworthy scum didn't have to jump to the lynch as there were really no alternatives (so no partners to save). I don't know, I think it's really hard to analyze where scum would want to be here.
I totally understand mcmc's tunneling on liopoil, because liopoil is scum.Thank you for reading and making a case. Response:
Here is the case mcmc did not have time to put together.
1. Liopoil have like no scumreads.
In his first 47 posts this one is the only one that can be seen as trying to find scum.
The rest are theory talk or interactin with other players.I'm ready to Vote: Robz888In his 48th post he is confident enought to to vote robz.
We gotta get this game rolling again, soft deadline on wednesday and we've hardly discussed any cases! Robz is currently my top lynch candidate, and now that I've re-read I'm confident enough to put a vote down.
Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc.
2. Liopoil never pushes his lynches
After he voted Robz he does not a single time argue why robz is a good lynch.
(actually, thats a lie, in post #504 he list some points made by others before him)Yeah, Vote: Robz888. I do not support this lynch but it is better than mail-mi. L-1 now, please no derphammers.
He even unvotes when the wagon is nearing lynch-size, and then votes again when it turns out there is problems with landing the lynch. Though not without stating he does not like the lynch. And not without trying to get the others to vote.Ahoppy, xeiron, mcmc, robz, wanna vote? I know mcmc and robz are already voting, but ahoppy isn't getting lynched and mcmc, your vote has been on me for ages and nobody has joined you.
Don't claim until someone states intent to hammer robz.really, right now we need to hear from robz and xeiron.
To me, it seems like liopoil tries to get robz lynched, without getting his own hands dirty.
3. Liopoil is to much conserned about how we read him.
You are not caught up, you have not read, and you have not looked at anyone besides myself. Please place informed votes, thanks.good luck finding mcmc's case on me...
I don't say "I know I'm town" to defend myself, (because that's a terrible defense), I say it as a line of reasoning. Granted, it's not a great line of reasoning, because you guys can't trust it.second I KNOW nobody has done a re-read of me because nobody has mentioned the REAL reasons a person might find me scummy. for instance, I have been incredibly inconsistant this game, and that would be evident upon a re-read. I am still waiting for your case on me, mcmc.
Day two he keeps focusing on how we do not have a real case on him. Why not focusing on catching scum instead? It is not like you had mor than one vote on you..
and then we have this post:I'm lining up my misslynches? what I said: "Apart from robz, I think people should take a closer look at mcmc." Anyone of any alignment would say that about their second choice for a lynch. Robz has been getting by far the most attention, and that's good. You haven't been getting enough attention. this statement makes just as much sense to be made as town or scum
This whole "both town and scum would do the same as I did" strikes me as scummy as it reminds me of how I was thinking (and arguing) when I was scum. Town usually do not think of how scum could act in just the same way as them.
Going at this thread clean this still came off scummy, without reading who posts it puts it in a different perspective and I do think is a scummy statement. I mean really its just the vote that seals the deal for scumminess, I mean personally voting says I’m serious and everyone pay attention, and that’s just not something to vote over.Quote from: ashersky loverlook c=8000.msg240592#msg240592 date=1368446053Knowledge of a scum qt and planning timeGood point about the flavor name claims, I hadn't realized that.
I've wished we get a game where scum gets to pick their partners for a long time, seems interesting. I think it's quintenssential wifom, everyone would most like to have yuma or Robz in their team but they are also the most obvious choices. I don't think scum would go for the total newbie, as no one has seen him play andthe risk of him being atrocious and totally destroying their team seems unnecessary. Mod question: Is there one "grand mafioso" who chooses the team, or how was that done? Do even even know how many mafia there are?
The middling choices I think are most likely "lets not go too obvious either way", so people like liopoil, ashersky, TwistedArcher, myself. But meh, it's so person dependentant, and the temptation of picking Robz or yuma must be pretty big.
Also yay for someone agreeing with me about RVS. This kind of theory talk also seems very unlikely to hurt town, the best case scenario is that mafia slips somehow / we lynch mafia and get to back to see what he thought picking partners.
Why am I middling? Why are you? Granted, I'm a terrible choice for scum partner, given my penchant for somehow being seen as super scummy, but I thought I had a fair chance at being picked.
I definitely would have gone with vet over newbie, I think. Even with a night to plan and get to know someone in a QT, a partner you already know is going to be better, I think.
And trying to get us to overlook soon-to-come scummy actions ( "somehow being seen as super scummy") as just our predisposition to think him scummy (I had no such predisposition)
vote:ash
Yup I agree with the vet+newbie thing, I think it really depends on what your gameplan is(if you have one) I think the first scum we find will say a lot, it gives all the possibilities of why pick or not pick this person from every other persons perspective. I do think eevee looks a bit scummy trying to say hey mcmc is a great scum pick(I know I wasn’t picked) so if he is scum hes safe to make the above statement.I agree. Well, I think there are three categories. "The most obvious" "middles" "the newer unknown players". If one guy did the picking, I'd expect him to pick from two different categories.3 mafia out of 12 seems fitting, yes. Still somewhat relevant if they did it popcorn-style or if one guy picked both partners, as if there was only one guy picking, I'd expect him often to pick people from different "categories".
mcmc is sort of an under the radar scum mastermind too, he is a very potential recruit I would think (not too obvious but is known to pull strong performances).
Ooh, mcmc, good call. He's definitely on the radar. With a three-man team, you go vet + newbie, right? Spread out the wifom.
So, this game is at first glance rather daunting. We have no idea what PRs are in effect.Interesting in retrospect because you are a PR
Hey guys, I just realized, TA isn't actually in this game, so yeah, I think a couple of us mentioned him.Interesting that I think they could be scum partners it still fits my description with mgp/sb
I actually was thinking about who I would choose a bit pre-game. I was leaning toward choosing Eevee and MGP.
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?Funny liopoil picked eevee+mgp, I think eevee wanted to up mgp’s potentially picked thing but not list liopoil and copy so closely.
I think I would have chosen mcmc+MGP or something like that, afraid of going to the extremes on either end but still wanting some experience in my team. But dunno, probably very random and dependant on the mood at the moment. Like, I doubt I would actually have thought about it much on the spot.
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)Scummy in my opinion to state re-reads ect.
I don’t see how this was scummy, I was explaining the thought process behind trying to act townie as town, I was mislynched before for running away with myself after getting a little town cred and thinking I was an IC.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
mcmc, I don't understand what you are saying. MGP just said it's better to lynch a scummy person than a random person. That's true, obviously.Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.
vote: modestguineapig
Oh I'm not worried about quickhammering or anything. I just want my vote to mean more when I do cast it. If I vote just to put pressure on someone, then my vote isn't a vote because I think they're scummy. If the person doesn't think I think them scummy, then they're hardly under pressure by me are they?Liopoil defends mgp here very hard, laater finds him scummy. Not a strong point
I just laid out all my thoughts, but I have some free time now, I guess I could reread someone. liopoil? Lets do liopoil.Funny eevee did liopoil and in the end came to the conclusion, liopoil is a!!!! null read…really after all that, throw in some coaching at the end and you’ve got an obvi scum team chatting away.
49 posts, 9 of them pre game.
-Criticizes RVS. I agree with this.
-Says ge would have chosen Eevee and MGPReally liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)This was when liopoil himself only had posted theory and nothing about individual players.
-This was liopoil's idea but for me it's a null tell as scum could propose it quite easily knowing the mods wouldn't let it happen.As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum.uh-oh, I think we can break the game by paraphrasing the flavour in our second PM. (or at least make one IC). This is kinda similar to the station-aligned thing in DS9. I think this should be addressed, and nobody should paraphrase any flavour....
Interestingly liopoils 15th post (I do not find spiritbears scummy. I disagree with him not answering the question (although, really, he did answer it by saying he has no clue who he would pick, which is good enough for me). I don't agree with his read on ashersky either, but I see no reason to find him scummy for it.) is the first one where he comments anything on any other player (instead of strategy, theory or jokes or praising how fast the game is moving).
-Good point in my opinion.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensejust noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...
-what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then. Nobody thinks we should random lynch.Town points for this. The MGP witchhunt was running rampant (for no good reason imo), and mafia could have wanted to fan the flames by staying out of it or even joining them mob (assuming MGP is town).
-Suspects me but wants to hold off from voting so that his vote will eventually mean more.
At this point he does the reread and puts some thoughts down on people and I agree with most of the conclusions / point he makes. Comparing our lists, mine (top to bottom scum)
mail-mi
liopoil
ashersky
sudgy
mcmc
Robz
yuma
MGP
nkirbit
AHoppy
spiritbears
and his
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
we seem to mostly agree. So, had I reread him before that big post, I would have been seriously suspected him for posting a lot but never saying anything until now, but it makes sense to need a reread to form an opinion so I'm fine with him now. Don't get a townread from anything, but not a scummy feel either. I'd move him to the middle of the pack in an updated list. Liopoil, I'd advice you to try to avoid just talking theory and taking more stances on people even without rereads (as the situations arise). The cautious way you've been playing (no voting at all!) makes it seem like you are trying to stay out of trouble.
Now, that scumpair is more likely in my mind than most others, but that's still gotta be very unlikely.
the things on robz are adding up though:
- weird play this game, highlighted by yuma.
- likely to be chosen by scum
- the sequence ashersky pointed out
- flip on spiritbears
- not knowing scum chose partners, but knowing we don't know what PRs there are.
worried that it's likely both robz and mail-mi are town. It isn't too late to look elsewhere yet, but it will be soon.Didn’t you yell at me for calling a scum team(I know you said it was unlikely) but really
Yup they did, something to always look at is how people moved wagons during mid day, I hold scum wants to make a ton of useless wagons.mail-mi (3): Eevee, sudgy, ashersky
Robz (3): mail-mi, spiritbears, nkirbit
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
sudgy (1): yuma
aHoppy (1): Robz888
Not voting: AHoppy, xeiron, liopoil
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Updated. So with yuma and liopoil changing/unvoting, they've successfully derailed our most likely lynch options right before the soft deadline. Good job scum!
Vote: sudgy
Vote: sudgy Didn't realize the mail-mi wagon died like that. Sort of weird that, uh?Eevee and liopoil voting and starting the push to sudgy(easy mislynch)
Don't support the aHoppy suspicion, just come back to sud-gee Robz!
Really guys, robz is town, eevee is right 100% about him. I have heard him talk about ds9 and samurai's in which he was NOT happy with his partners D1 play, also I don't even think he's being crazy scummy, crazy but not scummy. Lastly so he's not helpful at scum hunting D1, very few are, most of the newbie blame it on not being used to bigger games early on, I use the I'm terrible as town excuse, many of us are terrible unhelpful scum hunters d1. Some games were great. Robz just doesn't care to make an excuse because excuses get you lynched(bad for town) being outlandish and creating reaction(good for town) so ugh, don't lynch him.So here was my case on liopoil, I still think it’s a great case, especially knowing robz is town and was playing scummy, liopoil moved his read on him a bunch because he knew he was town.
Next OMG liopoil is scum...Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
A quick skim puts nkirbit and lio in scummy positions on the Robz wagon, I think.Agree
Robz's reveal doesn't really affect the mail-mi read.
I will go on record as saying this shouldn't give Eevee a billion towncred points.
This is such a weasely, scummy post.Yup, glad you did and continued to push that town lynch through, it worked.Vote:sudgy. why in the world am I in a scummy position on the wagon. I said very explicitly that I do not support that lynch, just preffered it over mail-mi. It's only a scummy move if mail-mi is scum, and I think he's town. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
Why was sudgy lynched when his wagon was CLEARLY scum driven and thus he was town. Why so quick to want to hammer when people were kinda like hes probably scum.I chose you because you're the IC. I didn't even notice that you weren't advocating my lynch.Comeon. That's just not believeable
Intent to vote Sudgy. But I'd like a count first so I don't quickhammer plz
Oooh scummy claim push. As well as smart town sudgy not letting scum get a free claim.Also, maybe you'd better claim Sudgy. If I'm right about the count. My vote will put you at l-1
I'll claim when I'm L-1 and someone says intent to hammer. No sooner.
agree that scum should claim VT sometimes. VT claim does make me a bit nervous, but I still like this lynch.Scum liopoil and I agrued quite a bit over claiming, his opinion is scum should claim, here he says scum might claim vt and then says hes worried about the vt claim(does he think its actually a vt then?) but still likes the lynch. Sorry that’s just an all over the place post.
Vote: SudgyScummy hammer, glad you were nk’d and I didn’t have to tunnel you all day and instead I can get scum liopoil lynched.
I hope we're right.
Good old wagon analysis, totally think on wagon is the scummy spot for both wagons, late on robz wagon/early on sudgies. Sudgies was forced through, robz took time to grow and almost ended quick that exactly where you find scum.Vote Count 1.Final
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
mail-mi (2): Eevee, AHoppy
LYNCHED--sudgy (7): liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xeiron, Robz888, ashersky, nkirbit
ashersky (1): sudgy
Not voting: spiritbears
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
So, wagon analysis.
Town lynch, plus NK was on-wagon. So there are 5 on wagon and 4 off wagon, total, to look at.
ON: liopoil, yuma, mail-mi, xerion, ashersky
OFF: mcmcsalot, Eevee, AHoppy, spiritbears
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Another reason to look off-wagon is the NK being on-wagon. Why would scum help us reduce the number there, unless they were worried we were going to look at the much smaller off wagon list?
So, I think folks should focus re-reads off-wagon first.
I'be generally preferred toblook off wagon when we HAVE a goodbkynch and on wagon when we miss.I also just knew robz was town because it was obvious, he doesn’t play scum like that. I agree I have played crappy(sorry) but I think lio flipping scum will be extremely helpful and due to me so I will gloat and take credit at that time thank you very much.
But mire specifically, look at who has been helpful and who haasnt pulled weight is where I'm looking. Mc has not played a good game whether he's town or not. Even if Lio flips scum whst had he added to out efforts? Mai as well, sure he has been a heavy target, but such a minimal defense for the number one lynch target most of the game
And while I'm at it. Robzzz hasn't lead us at all as IC and I wouldn't expect that to change. We HAVE to find scum on our own. If we wait for his leadership it will be too late.
So vote mc
Remember, he KNEW robz was town. Insisted he knew. He knew because he wasn't me thinks.
I do think a vote: mom salon is in order.Scummy, too easy.
Can you guys explain the townread on sb a bit more, I am open to it I think I have trouble reading him.My faith in my own ability to scum hunt is really, really shaken after Mafia XXIII. :(
How do you read mcmc this game?
And sb?
Sb def town. Mcmc not so sure.
Agree on sb. Nothing in his ways has changed from any previous game and (no offense sb) I think we will notice a difference when he's scum.
Scum read on mcmc, interested to see more activity from him.
Hehehe sorry this makes me soo giddy because I have felt this way before. What he is really saying “omg mcmc you’re a jerk for finding me out on nothing, your not even posting/reading, why don’t you just drop it. I’ll call him out because only scum would tunnel and make no case. Though it’s mcmc he always tries really hard as scum and is obvi town here. Fine…I…have…a…town…read…on…mcmc.oooooooohkay, vote: liopoil still totally think he is scum.Oh man, this is terrible. Let me show you why:ugh robz claimed something... i will reread tomorowI will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.These posts show that you have not been paying attention at all this game. IF you are not paying attention, how in the world can you have solid reads, when you haven't even noticed:Robz is Cady Heron, your Student body-aligned New Kid.
You're last post of day 1 was over a day and a half before the actual end of day 1.
You are not caught up, you have not read, and you have not looked at anyone besides myself. Please place informed votes, thanks.
And man, I kinda lean town on mcmc because of that, because scum!mcmc would know what was going on and wouldn't place votes like that.
Mcmc is back with a very nice reread. unvote.you agree with XEIRON'S case??? did you even read my response. mcmc's case is like a million times better, though still wrong.
I also agree with xeirons case and I think that I will vote: liopoil
I read your response, yes. And I do like Mcmcs case, just forgot to say it.Mcmc is back with a very nice reread. unvote.you agree with XEIRON'S case??? did you even read my response. mcmc's case is like a million times better, though still wrong.
I also agree with xeirons case and I think that I will vote: liopoil
Hmmm. Both responses dont quite seem legitimate. Fos for now.I read your response, yes. And I do like Mcmcs case, just forgot to say it.Mcmc is back with a very nice reread. unvote.you agree with XEIRON'S case??? did you even read my response. mcmc's case is like a million times better, though still wrong.
I also agree with xeirons case and I think that I will vote: liopoil
Mc, you have probably been in more games here with me than anyone else. I find it really odd you saying you can't read me. Also I really wonder about that "frustration" flip on me earlier. Exactly whst did I do to earn that? We have finished out other games and never had a problem. Also continually calling me "confused" is for whst???? I don't think I was confused when I helped nail you d1 in the unmentionable game.overall I think my record is probably just as good or better than yours was st this point in your gaming history. It's like you want to purposefully downplay my reads.
which responses are you referring to that you say don't seem legitimate?Hmmm. Both responses dont quite seem legitimate. Fos for now.I read your response, yes. And I do like Mcmcs case, just forgot to say it.Mcmc is back with a very nice reread. unvote.you agree with XEIRON'S case??? did you even read my response. mcmc's case is like a million times better, though still wrong.
I also agree with xeirons case and I think that I will vote: liopoil
Both in this string....pointing to xerions case when mc has just laid his out and then saying you forgot.which responses are you referring to that you say don't seem legitimate?Hmmm. Both responses dont quite seem legitimate. Fos for now.I read your response, yes. And I do like Mcmcs case, just forgot to say it.Mcmc is back with a very nice reread. unvote.you agree with XEIRON'S case??? did you even read my response. mcmc's case is like a million times better, though still wrong.
I also agree with xeirons case and I think that I will vote: liopoil
If, liopoil is town I will legitimately elect myself worst town mafia player in the game, I cannot see him being anything other than scum.unfortunate. thanks for doing that read. your big post reads so so town to me. Please consider that you might be locked into the lio-is-scum-mindset and can't get out of it. It's happened to me before, and we've seen it happen to many other people before. (see: pirates). I'll respond to the bits about me: (red text is by me, everything else is by mcmc.)
Hey guys, I just realized, TA isn't actually in this game, so yeah, I think a couple of us mentioned him.Interesting that I think they could be scum partners it still fits my description with mgp/sb
I actually was thinking about who I would choose a bit pre-game. I was leaning toward choosing Eevee and MGP.
Why just one name yuma? Three mafia, wouldn't there be two to pick?Funny liopoil picked eevee+mgp, I think eevee wanted to up mgp’s potentially picked thing but not list liopoil and copy so closely.
I think I would have chosen mcmc+MGP or something like that, afraid of going to the extremes on either end but still wanting some experience in my team. But dunno, probably very random and dependant on the mood at the moment. Like, I doubt I would actually have thought about it much on the spot.
Really liking the fast start this game has gotten :D. I'm already re-reading! (well, that's mostly because I kinda skimmed to catch up.)Scummy in my opinion to state re-reads ect. why? because it's like I'm declaring "look at me, I'm being pro-town!"? It's just a comment... and I mentioned the thing about re-reading because the reason I have anything to read is because the game had gotten a fast start.
Liopoil defends mgp here very hard, laater finds him scummy. Not a strong point Where do I find mgp scummy? I do find xeiron scummy now. and this is hardly defending mgp very hard, it is a clarification of his postmcmc, I don't understand what you are saying. MGP just said it's better to lynch a scummy person than a random person. That's true, obviously.Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view. I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum.
If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us. So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.
Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.
vote: modestguineapig
Now, that scumpair is more likely in my mind than most others, but that's still gotta be very unlikely.
the things on robz are adding up though:
- weird play this game, highlighted by yuma.
- likely to be chosen by scum
- the sequence ashersky pointed out
- flip on spiritbears
- not knowing scum chose partners, but knowing we don't know what PRs there are.
worried that it's likely both robz and mail-mi are town. It isn't too late to look elsewhere yet, but it will be soon.Didn’t you yell at me for calling a scum team(I know you said it was unlikely) but really What? you're missing the context. that post was ANTI-scumteam calling. It was in response to others calling a scumteam, and while that scumteam made more sense than most, I was still saying that it was meaningless. Then I went on to say different reasons that robz is scummy.
Vote: sudgy
Vote: sudgy Didn't realize the mail-mi wagon died like that. Sort of weird that, uh?Eevee and liopoil voting and starting the push to sudgy(easy mislynch) scumteam calling again!! stop!!
Don't support the aHoppy suspicion, just come back to sud-gee Robz!
Next OMG liopoil is scum... nopeSo here was my case on liopoil, (case? all you say here is that I change my mind and drag the day on.)I still think it’s a great case, especially knowing robz is town and was playing scummy, liopoil moved his read on him a bunch because he knew he was town.Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close. The bolded never happened. Have you ever seen scum actually try to drag a day on? nope, not a good idea, as they draw attention to them self and it's scummy behavior. I did change my mind over and over again D1, but is that scummy, or just a townie who has no info to work off of on Day 1?
A quick skim puts nkirbit and lio in scummy positions on the Robz wagon, I think.Agree
agree that scum should claim VT sometimes. VT claim does make me a bit nervous, but I still like this lynch.Scum liopoil and I agrued quite a bit over claiming, his opinion is scum should claim, here he says scum might claim vt and then says hes worried about the vt claim(does he think its actually a vt then?) but still likes the lynch. Sorry that’s just an all over the place post. All over the place? it's pretty clear. I think scum should sometimes claim VT, but more often than not they shouldn't. Therefore, a VT claim makes me less confident, but not enough to change my vote.
Hehehe sorry this makes me soo giddy because I have felt this way before. What he is really saying “omg mcmc you’re a jerk for finding me out on nothing, your not even posting/reading, why don’t you just drop it. I’ll call him out because only scum would tunnel and make no case. Though it’s mcmc he always tries really hard as scum and is obvi town here. Fine…I…have…a…town…read…on…mcmc.oooooooohkay, vote: liopoil still totally think he is scum.Oh man, this is terrible. Let me show you why:ugh robz claimed something... i will reread tomorowI will reread around 1 pm today, while were at it though why is robz ic. Did he claim before I left. And yes I have paid sooooooooo little attention to this game. I read nothing past my last post.These posts show that you have not been paying attention at all this game. IF you are not paying attention, how in the world can you have solid reads, when you haven't even noticed:Robz is Cady Heron, your Student body-aligned New Kid.
You're last post of day 1 was over a day and a half before the actual end of day 1.
You are not caught up, you have not read, and you have not looked at anyone besides myself. Please place informed votes, thanks.
And man, I kinda lean town on mcmc because of that, because scum!mcmc would know what was going on and wouldn't place votes like that.
Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.
gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
I agree I won't hammer because I don't support the lynch, but to me this is past deadline and someone who does find arch scummy should hammer as soon as possible
Okay let me preface, this is the exact same style reread and copy quote/compile into a word doc/respond after complete reread I did when building a case on eevee as scum in pirates. That is because I scumhunt in extremely similar ways whether I am scum or town. When I am scum I simply forget and look for what I find scummy. When I am town I tend to use town reads more because I have less faith that what people(even myself) consider scummy actually relates scumminess.
Next, I went into this as a complete reread(so a bit different I ctrl-f’ed eevee) though I came out with pretty much a case on liopoil.
Lastly I will post more thoughts and keep up now that I am caught up. So this is a bit more of a catch up/my thoughts and it may have inconsistencies due to “this is how I felt then/now” attitude I am trying to take as I think it is going to be the most helpful.
As a warning, this is probably going to have “hey you misrepresented that” moments and “that’s a stupid scummy way to look at it moments” but hey that’s how it goes, townies have their own opinions that differ from other townies so rather than writing things off try and look at it a different way(and suggest your own way of looking at it) because I think cooperation and a need to find scum is the advantage town has over scum.
I am also way way way behind. I know SB isn't scum, I doubt mcmc is scum but he has fooled me countless times, and... yeah. Probably down for a xeiron or lio lynch. Know I'm going to be wrong no matter what.
Sorry guys, I'm behind. Like haven't even read - behind. I'll try to get to it tonight.
Sorry guys, I'm behind. Like haven't even read - behind. I'll try to get to it tonight.
Undercontributing Eevee is a scum tell.YouTwo posts since you said this.
It's still tonight, I'm not done. I have a friend over, but I'm trying to finish the read of day 2 today,
You've falsely called undercontributing Eevee scum Eevee 4 games in a row now though!
I was going to quote and stuff, but man there are some long posts.
So, on the mcmc post, liopoil response, and the two in general:
I think there are a few possibilities here (one or the other is scum, one or the other is town, etc.) but am beginning to think the two of them are having a staged fight. They've played together enough to know each other pretty well, and it seems to me that they're just arguing past each other. This strikes me as a planned fight to convince us that it is town on town.
Why? A few reasons, including the fact that liopoil does have a number of scummy strikes against him, as shown by mcmc and others. Mcmc has been scummy on his own, as he's admitted himself. I think the interaction of the two, with mcmc tunneling lio but lio never OMGUSing or retaliating is completely out of character. I just don't buy the conflict there.
The staged fight leads well into epic bus territory, too, since if mcmc succeeds, he gets infinite towncred.
I still think mcmc is the way to go today, and this just added to it:Okay let me preface, this is the exact same style reread and copy quote/compile into a word doc/respond after complete reread I did when building a case on eevee as scum in pirates. That is because I scumhunt in extremely similar ways whether I am scum or town. When I am scum I simply forget and look for what I find scummy. When I am town I tend to use town reads more because I have less faith that what people(even myself) consider scummy actually relates scumminess.
Next, I went into this as a complete reread(so a bit different I ctrl-f’ed eevee) though I came out with pretty much a case on liopoil.
Lastly I will post more thoughts and keep up now that I am caught up. So this is a bit more of a catch up/my thoughts and it may have inconsistencies due to “this is how I felt then/now” attitude I am trying to take as I think it is going to be the most helpful.
As a warning, this is probably going to have “hey you misrepresented that” moments and “that’s a stupid scummy way to look at it moments” but hey that’s how it goes, townies have their own opinions that differ from other townies so rather than writing things off try and look at it a different way(and suggest your own way of looking at it) because I think cooperation and a need to find scum is the advantage town has over scum.
That's 4 paragraphs of "this is going to be scummy so I'm saying it is scummy first so you can't count it against me" stuff, but yes, we can count it against you. You did a reread of Eevee and built a liopoil case? It just really feels like you are forcing the liopoil issue.
So my vote stays on mcmc.
mcmc let me ask you a question... Does lio remind you at all of yourself in the M&M game? because he does to me... Remember that one where you said something very similar to what lio said here:Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
In M&M you said something similar about arch... that you didn't like his lynch, but were willing to vote for him. I remember because I pushed you on it hard as scum and eventually got you lynched for it. For clarification purposes here was your statement in that gameI agree I won't hammer because I don't support the lynch, but to me this is past deadline and someone who does find arch scummy should hammer as soon as possible
And now that I posted it, I see that I actually remembered wrong about this as your statements are actually kinda opposite of each other.
Hmmm.... I was reading lio a little townier because of this incorrect memory and was surprised that you found him scummy for doing something you yourself had previously done as town... but obviously that is incorrect as my memory was faulty... glad I went and check up on it.
I'm actually serious. I have a phase of mini-burnout on mafia again, and I feel guilty for not being active enough. I don't want to have a perceived meta of someone who is always scum when he posts less because that's not true, as it would require me to post more and more regardless of my alignment to not get lynched even when I don't feel like it (pro-my win con either way), and I'd hate these wonderful games becoming a chore to me.It's still tonight, I'm not done. I have a friend over, but I'm trying to finish the read of day 2 today,
You've falsely called undercontributing Eevee scum Eevee 4 games in a row now though!
At least I'm consistent.
I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)
Something is really bothering me about mc's response to me
Really mc---you of all people know I'm different and have seen me probably at my best and at my worst. If anyone can read me it's probably you. So this appealing to others for help reading me just comes across as fake (lol..autocorrected to "cake"). I just can't buy you not having a read on me. Even worse, saying I always come across scummy when you have never even see me play scum is just beyond puzzling.
.. sorry I'm probably taking real life stress out on you. :) I know you mean no harm!
Something is really bothering me about mc's response to me
Really mc---you of all people know I'm different and have seen me probably at my best and at my worst. If anyone can read me it's probably you. So this appealing to others for help reading me just comes across as fake (lol..autocorrected to "cake"). I just can't buy you not having a read on me. Even worse, saying I always come across scummy when you have never even see me play scum is just beyond puzzling.
That's the point, I have never seen you scum and have no idea how you will act once you are scum. So I am wondering where others have a town read on you. Although I have played with you quite a bit and feel we have a very strong(as well as one can online) friendship I do not think it makes me any more inclined to be able to catch you if you are scum. In fact I think it means I have more of a tendancy to read the things you post as honest statement(that or I am paranoid you will be scum and completely fool me thus I am over cautious about my read on you)
Sorry if I;m making no sense.
The thing about mcmc I find scummy is his conviction about liopoil when the facts don't really warrant such certainty. But I don't really know, I don't remember him doing this as scum or as town before. It's certainly a bit spotlight-y for what I'd expect from scum mcmc.
I don't think the case he is building looks super strong though. Like, I'm about 50-50 whether I think liopoil or mcmc is more likely to flip scum.. I certainly feel the liopoil-mcmc(-xeiron) interaction is very useful and deciphering what's what there could lead us to some very strong town reads / finding scum. The case he built on me on pirates was definitely outright terrible and I'm VERY wary of letting something like that happen eve again. Got to start to attack conviction I find unwarranted more aggressively and not let people off the hook too easily "just because we see things differently".The thing about mcmc I find scummy is his conviction about liopoil when the facts don't really warrant such certainty. But I don't really know, I don't remember him doing this as scum or as town before. It's certainly a bit spotlight-y for what I'd expect from scum mcmc.
Go read some old mcmc scum QTs. He likes to build strong sounding cases on a scummy town player and push it. He employed it in the newbie game I modded with him in it.
The thing about mcmc I find scummy is his conviction about liopoil when the facts don't really warrant such certainty. But I don't really know, I don't remember him doing this as scum or as town before. It's certainly a bit spotlight-y for what I'd expect from scum mcmc.I agree eevee. I have been screaming this all game. Something is just off with mc's game. It's hard for me to believe he would purposefully play this way as scum. But jeez. He just can't come off of Lio...even to help build/destroy other cases. I guess I should chalk it up to irl stuff. But ibreally don't have a good fallback position here. I guess Mai would be my second choice.
I would also like to note that the two people who are currently also possible to lynch, mail-mi and sudgy, are both voting for robz. If they are scum, I would bet robz is not. I don't realy know if this has any bearing on things though...
These are the types of things we'll get to analyze in depth on D2.
We should really analyze why the mail-mi wagon fell apart yesterday and got replaced with TWO townie wagons!!Yes. Good idea. I never did get on the Mai bandwagon even though he made some fairly strange posts. But ity gets back to (Yuma's?) Question earlier: could we really be wrong on all three scum reads (majority)? Probably Mai is the place to start ad I think the Lio-mc fight will just endlessly divide us without a lunch
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
Vote Count 1.9
{L-3} mail-mi (4): Eevee, Robz888, sudgy, ashersky
Robz (4): yuma, mail-mi, liopoil, spiritbears
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting: modestguineapig, nkirbit, AHoppy
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is sometime on Friday.
If I remember right, robz train kept growing and then when he came out of the closet, he pointed the finger st Sudgy and mist of us complied (I didn't because he wss st l-1, but I would have complied)OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
So uhm, as far as I can see, this was mail-mi's grand defense.. I'm trying to dig whose "fault" it was the votes stated going Robz's and sudgy's way. As far as I can tell, this was the mail-mi wagon at it's highest, but I'll continue digging.Vote Count 1.9
{L-3} mail-mi (4): Eevee, Robz888, sudgy, ashersky
Robz (4): yuma, mail-mi, liopoil, spiritbears
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting: modestguineapig, nkirbit, AHoppy
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is sometime on Friday.
So, on the mcmc post, liopoil response, and the two in general:ha, that would be totally awesome. But I don't think not OMGUSing mcmc is out of character for me. I do have a history of defending myself heavily, but I don't always find the people accusing me scummy. This looks like whoops-I'm-wrong!mcmc to me, Because he's been wrong about me before and I don't think that he would push my lynch so hard or fall so far behind as scum. This looks like let's-mislynch-liopoil!xeiron because his case is very exaggerated and came out of nowhere.
I think there are a few possibilities here (one or the other is scum, one or the other is town, etc.) but am beginning to think the two of them are having a staged fight. They've played together enough to know each other pretty well, and it seems to me that they're just arguing past each other. This strikes me as a planned fight to convince us that it is town on town.
Why? A few reasons, including the fact that liopoil does have a number of scummy strikes against him, as shown by mcmc and others. Mcmc has been scummy on his own, as he's admitted himself. I think the interaction of the two, with mcmc tunneling lio but lio never OMGUSing or retaliating is completely out of character. I just don't buy the conflict there.
The staged fight leads well into epic bus territory, too, since if mcmc succeeds, he gets infinite towncred.
Okay, rereading mail-mi thoroughly. We ran up three wagons day 1 and two of them already flipped town while the mail-mi wagon just mysteriously disappeared, so I think this is very much in order.Good points, I haven't given mail-mi close enough a look, just thought "oh, we're just gonna mislynch him again". But I remember in pirates the town got in trouble for not lynching him the next day after lynching TA instead of him the previous day.
I started rereading mail-mi's 51 posts(43 after game start) and summarizing his opinions with bulletpoints, but soon realized it is really pointless, his posts are so short you can all reread him yourself. I really encourage everyone to do that actually, as I think he is a key player for today because of yesterdays wagons.
The post count is really misleading, as most of his posts are really short and not about this game at all. The stances he commited to were supporting the Robz lynch, then supporting the sudgy lynch (both town) and now going after mcmc and then liopoil today. Really seems he is fine with whatever lynch the town is sailing towards. I think him flipping scum would make mcmc-liopoil likely town on town. Unless I missed something, the only players mail-mi expressed townreads on were MGP and by extension spiritbears, as he thought that their fight was town on town. He hasn't even mentioned most of the players.
And I think lio's vote in the latest vote count is wrong and should also be on xeiron.
Just getting back from a musical and about to head to bed. I have read through everything up to this point, but don't have time to comment on anything... aside to say that I am still comfortable voting xeiron. His lack of response to both me and lio (although he may not have been online yet to respond to lio) also raises my eyebrows... And I think lio's vote in the latest vote count is wrong and should also be on xeiron.
I am working this Saturday, but have Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday off and will be able to devote a bit more time then... I am about to start up my crazy 7-on, 7-off schedule... so bear with me as I get used to that.
And where is Robz???
Doin some other stuff. It's not like my input is very helpful anyway, I'll just be wrong :-[
Doin some other stuff. It's not like my input is very helpful anyway, I'll just be wrong :-[
Dude, you are hurting town if you aren't here trying to help scumhunt.
Yes!!!! Comone rob. Just because you got outed (when I know you would have preferred to stay underground, is no reason bot to help us! Even if it's just quickhits(which you are famous/infamous for), we could really use some input from the one mod-confirmed towny.Doin some other stuff. It's not like my input is very helpful anyway, I'll just be wrong :-[
Dude, you are hurting town if you aren't here trying to help scumhunt.
Thank you for reading and making a case. Response:
#1: It's true, I started the game off with lots of theory, but that's because it's impossible to have reads early. That was the post where I re-read and stuff. AND that post was only 5 real-life days into a 12-day D1. So really not too bad. And in that post, I re-read the whole game and talk about every single player. I've done my share of scumhunting. And posts previous to that do sometimes mention what I think of other players, but I don't push anything because I know I haven't done the research.
#2: When I voted for robz initially, I did push it a bit. I backed off and unvoted because I thought he wasn't the best lynch anymore, and I voted for sudgy. And when I did re-vote for robz, that was because it was clear that it was between robz and mail-mi. I very explicitly said that I did not support that lynch. And to say "Liopoil never pushes his lynches" is ridiculous. Why? sudgy, that's why. I am the first on that wagon, and while everyone else was between mail-mi and robz, I was saying we should lynch sudgy instead, and pushed that very hard. If it wasn't for me we likely would have lynched mail-mi instead of sudgy. I deserve a lot of the blame for that lynch.
#3: I say nobody has presented a case on me and nobody has read me because nobody had. Thank you for doing the work, xeiron. You can never find scum without re-reading, and if you did, you got lucky. You can sometimes find scum by re-reading. Therefore, I always encourage reading. I said it would make just as much sense as town or scum because mcmc was saying "that's something that would make sense to be done as scum". This is not a valid point, because you can say that about lots of things. Casting an RVS vote is something scum do sometimes. Does that make RVS votes scummy? no! why? because both alignments cast them. It's a perfectly good line of reasoning and even applies here. you say: "it reminds me of how I was thinking (and arguing) when I was scum." there, you've made the same mistake. Why it is a way one might think (and argue) as scum, it's a way which could be done as town too.
Just getting back from a musical and about to head to bed. I have read through everything up to this point, but don't have time to comment on anything... aside to say that I am still comfortable voting xeiron. His lack of response to both me and lio (although he may not have been online yet to respond to lio) also raises my eyebrows... And I think lio's vote in the latest vote count is wrong and should also be on xeiron.
I am working this Saturday, but have Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday off and will be able to devote a bit more time then... I am about to start up my crazy 7-on, 7-off schedule... so bear with me as I get used to that.
Total Mentions:
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eevee
Say what? I know you missed most of day1, but I'll have you remember that this is day2. Your vote here is completely ignoring everything that we have learned from yesterday! And I would say that we learned a fair amount...
Your vote above might have been a good idea say during RVS or immediately after it yesterday. But today!?! No. Not w/o anything else to back up an eevee lynch, and from your posts above it appears you don't have anything else to back it up.
vote: xeiron for proposing a completely anti-town suggestion that I am surprised no one has yet called him out for, and for doing it in a scummy way (shortly after I started suggesting that others take a look at xeiron).
Robz halp...am I an idiot, is Liopoil town and xeiron/ashersky are taking advantage of the situation as scum, or am I right and scum is just not letting the case gain any gound. The longer this game goes on my read gets weaker and weaker.
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
I don't understand mc--
You have been on the liocase the entire game, it's out there. Who do you think is blocking it? I have certainly not supported it, mainly because I want to see something more definite and I feel the case is primarily based on a meta. But I don't recall anyone preventing your case from being heard. The question is, why after all this time and very little support for your case do you not look elsewhere or st least give your opinion of the other cases being made. (Xerion case, Mai case etc)
Robz halp...am I an idiot, is Liopoil town and xeiron/ashersky are taking advantage of the situation as scum, or am I right and scum is just not letting the case gain any gound. The longer this game goes on my read gets weaker and weaker.
I don't understand your question. Xeiron agrees with you and is voting liopoil. I think you are scum, very possibly with liopoil. I'd say there are others that are not letting the case gain ground.
Ok. But even if you are right about Lio. Not every other case can be wrong. We would still have one or teo other scum out there. I'd just like to hear more in depth from you. If they are all bad cases, then why? Whst makes you so sure they are all town. And if so, who else do we need to be looking at? I am just so used to you having great insight on not just one but many players, the stuckononecase mc is one I don't recognize.I don't understand mc--
You have been on the liocase the entire game, it's out there. Who do you think is blocking it? I have certainly not supported it, mainly because I want to see something more definite and I feel the case is primarily based on a meta. But I don't recall anyone preventing your case from being heard. The question is, why after all this time and very little support for your case do you not look elsewhere or st least give your opinion of the other cases being made. (Xerion case, Mai case etc)
What I was saying wasn't that I felt people were stopping it from being heard, I was wondering why it was having soo much trouble gaining support(aka am I wrong or is scum defending liopoil).
Well I did comment on the other cases day 1, I said they were terrible and liopoil was the only one I was comfortable voting for. Now as far as xeiron's case on liopoil goes, I want to go "yes yes I agree!" but it did come out of nowhere, hence me asking robz if he thinks I am right and liopoil is scum, or if he thinks I'm wrong and other scum are now trying to get liopoil mislynched.
"It is indeed difficult, almost imossible, to have good scumreads early day one. I think you refrain making reads because you did not want to atract attention with a bad case. Probably because you are scum."
It is indeed difficult, almost imossible, to have good scumreads early day one. I think you refrain making reads because you did not want to atract attention with a bad case. Probably because you are scum.
Oh... You pushed the Sudgy lynch very hard. I must have missed that. Could you please point out those posts?
To me it seems like on solid post with a vote, and then a buch of asking/answering question, general statements and theory talk.
I totally believe that anyone of any alignment would say something about their second choice for a lynch. This point is not about saying scum and town always act differently, they would do the same in a lot of situations.
My point is that your phrase "Anyone of any alignment would say that about their second choice for a lynch" gives me an instant flashback to how I was thinking and arguing as scum. It therfore contribiute to my scumread on you.
Vote:sudgy. you know who is in a scummy position though? sudgy. he went back and forth between robz and mail-mi trying to see which lynch would go through. although, granted, robz888 was TRYING to get a wagon on himself, so lots of townies probably voted for him. anyway, I was pushing the sudgy lynch before, I'm pushing it now.
Yuma and Nkirbit, come join me!
I don't think robz lynch is going to happen guys. Let's lynch sudgy instead!
I do however prefer a robz lynch over a mail-mi lynch, if it comes to it. I think we have the votes to lynch sudgy.
Ahoppy, xeiron, mcmc, robz, wanna vote? I know mcmc and robz are already voting, but ahoppy isn't getting lynched and mcmc, your vote has been on me for ages and nobody has joined you.
So I see two optionsAre you implying that if I'm town Xeiron is probably scum, and that if I'm scum xeiron may or may not be scum? If my being town incriminates xeiron, that should be really solid evidence, not just for me, but for people who aren't convinced I'm scum.
Liopoil is scum, xieron agrees with me(bussing or town doesn't matter), you agree liopoil is scum(incorrectly guessing my alignment)
or
Liopoil is town, Xeiron is scum who sees an opportunity to push a mislynch through, you are scum trying to get two townies lynched because you see the opportunity.
So I see two optionsAre you implying that if I'm town Xeiron is probably scum, and that if I'm scum xeiron may or may not be scum? If my being town incriminates xeiron, that should be really solid evidence, not just for me, but for people who aren't convinced I'm scum.
Liopoil is scum, xieron agrees with me(bussing or town doesn't matter), you agree liopoil is scum(incorrectly guessing my alignment)
or
Liopoil is town, Xeiron is scum who sees an opportunity to push a mislynch through, you are scum trying to get two townies lynched because you see the opportunity.
Ok. I just can't see mc playing this way as scum. It's just way too risky. I'm going to have a little faith that he will give us better reads on Mai and xerion. And
unvote
Ash is a bit different his playing dumb reads scummy to me as does his opportunistic view of trying to say me and liopoil are scum. I think that does make ash scummy regardless if liopoil's flip. Because I know that scum!ash gets 2 mislynches, or a 1 for 1 bus out of lynching me and liopoil. I now need to reread ash.
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.and knowing that both robz and sudgy are/were town. His behavior is what I imagine scum would be doing toward the end of day. But that is really the whole of the case when you take away the parts about eevee/spiritbears... Aside from that case I don't think the three points xeiron makes are credible at all--note that I find mail-mi weird for agreeing with them... what?...
Ok, so I am not serious in wanting to lynch blindly from the total mentions list.but when he voted for eevee he said:
An eevee lynch looks quite good.Quite good? Just because he was at the top of the list? You dont' say anything else about him... so that must be your reasoning... And if it is "quite good" how can you say that you aren't serious about it? I think this is scum realizing that he made a mistake and is trying to crowd control and spin it... but not very well... Add in his case on lio that I mentioned above which just isn't very good at all and looks to be an attempt to get on lio early behind the support of mcmc. We do need to remember that xeiron subbed into the game and as such we should at least look at mpg... I don't think there was anything from MPG's play that made her obvious town... there were a handful of slightly scummy things... the jump on spiritbears, not having any even semi-solid reads as we approached the end of day and a handful of other small things... I think it is worth noting that mpg was voted a handful of times day1 by myself, nkiribt, ash and spiritbears... but that a wagon never formed on her... as I said before I don't expect xeiron to be held accountable for these things, but rather that we need to take them into account to get a full picture.
My eyebrows raised really high when mail-mi agreed with xeiron too. The points he makes are just crazy. Of the four you mention, my ranking for scummy to not scummy is xeiron, mail-mi, mcmc, liopoil, with a good amount of space between each.
In regard to the mcmc-lio thing, I agree that scum v. scum or town v. town make the most sense, and obviously I think it's town v. town. I'll add that it's automatically more likely to be town v. town because there's more town than scum.
Yes I noticed we all have hop immense towncred for the two big posts. Each of Them coming at a point when he had been called out for lurking/not being helpful. I know he mentioned something about irl stuff getting in his way, which I almost always take to be true.
But....realllllllly. invoklment has been beyond minimal. We are also giving him a ton of "newb room", which I wonder about. The posts he makes show that he understands the game, the lingo, etc at a pretty sophisticated level. Ate we sure this is not someone we know with an alterego screename?
Howeever even with my concerns, I don't think it makes much sense to lynch ahop today. There just isn't very much info we would get from it...which we badly need for today. Starting at -4.
Town may be dsmn near impossible to correct and win.
So I say watch ahop for today anyway....
deadline is next saturday at 8. Robz, wanna make us a soft deadline?
I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 ;)
Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 ;)
Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...
But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!
what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 ;)
Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...
But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!
what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?
Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.
I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.
I'm no vet! I've finished 4 normal games and 1 bastard, that's all.
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 ;)
Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...
But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!
what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?
Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.
Man, who does this? "I know! I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both! That'll work awesomely!"
You honestly see scum!ash doing that? Am I not a vet to you? Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum? That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.
Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.
I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.
I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.
yay! More scum team predictions!!! So is it mcmc/lio/yuma or mcmc/yuma/?
I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.
I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.
I think it because scum chose their partners. Unless Ahoppy was the one doing to choosing or something, I think they would very likely choose a vet. Sure, WIFOM, but if I'm scum, I want someone who definitely knows what their doing on my team.I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.
What makes you think this? Emotionally this makes sense, but logically it sounds like something newbie/average scum uses to misdirect. It's probably true, though.
(Side note: the three you mention would make an awesome team, either kicking butt or failing epically!)
I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.
I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.
really. DS9, another dinner party, bankers, S&N, ehalc's bastard game.I'm no vet! I've finished 4 normal games and 1 bastard, that's all.
Really? Only five games? Maybe it is because of our time in quicktopics together, but I feel like you have been around a lot more than that...
the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!Strongly agree.
All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)
All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)
How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?
I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.
Don't forget to include yourself!!! (yes I consider you a veteran!)
But this is something worth considering in this game where a statement like this would be worthless in another game. Obviously I am not going to consider myself, but regardless of what people said about who they woud choose as scum--there is just a lot of WIFOM in those statements--both eevee and ash would make for good partners as scum and likely choices.
I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...
Eevee on the other hand has kinda stayed away from the mcmc/lio argument for whatever reason and has pushed toward mail-mi. I don't mind that push... but given that mail-mi is VLA starting tomorrow? for a week? I hate to say it because I hate it when VLA impacts games and especially when it might prevent us from lynching scum... but hey, this is a game and we have to role with those sort of setbacks... given that mail-mi is VLA he might not be the best lynch candidate for today. Eevee has also been a bit gone today with VLA stuff. There were still a handful of things that I found eevee scummy for day1.
So I guess both are on the scummier side... probably both a bit scummier than say mcmc/lio at this point, but not scummier than where I am voting on xeiron. Guys we have seen.... well at least some of us have seen scum xeiron before. In the sad broken game he was partners with mcmc.
Mcmc is maybe the best person to ask: do you think that his play here is similar to his play there. And spiritbears was able to pinpoint both of them pretty well--aside from being distracted by me--from what you remember sb, do you think xeiron compares in these games? I think he does.
I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...
All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum.
quote fail: fixedI was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.
I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.
yay! More scum team predictions!!! So is it mcmc/lio/yuma or mcmc/yuma/?
ashersky, you do not KNOW that mcmc is scum, just like mcmc doesn't KNOW that I'm scum (Inb4 you call that a scumslip). And many of us disagree with you that he is very scummy. You can't base reads off mcmc being scum until he has flipped scum.
I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...
This just pisses me off. HOW MANY TIMES DO I GET TO BE CALLED SCUMMY FOR NOT BEING SCUMMY ENOUGH? I get it, I'm scummy in like every game ever. But if I make any effort at all to be better at being town and helping, I get caled scummy for it because "he's not arguing enough" or "he's too calm" or "hmmm, he isn't being scummy, he must be scum!" Eevee did this to me in Bankers. This happens every game and it is getting ridiculous.
Yes, I've been focused on mcmc all D2. Can you not think of a good town reason why this could be? Really? I haven't been this towny since DS9, man. I'm doing my best to help town win a freaking game, given it's been so long, and the only time we win is when I mod, so I'm doing my best to fix it, and I'm doing a damn good job, if you would just listen to me. Not just hear me, but really listen to what I've been saying.
The scum slip isn't ridiculous. It isn't a "0% chance of flipping town" sort of scumslip. It's a sign that he's scum and can't quite hide it sort of scumslip.
I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)
You, yuma, are being obtuse. Maybe it's to get reactions, I don't know. I've refrained from saying this, since I know how much you hate it, but here it is again: yuma very well may be scum because he's being so towny.
He's being towny and leading town (even when he's trying not to lead town by passing the buck to Robz) and we all know scum!yuma does that. Go see every game ever in teh history of time. When yuma is towny, he's scum. Good luck arguing against that, scummyscumscumscum.
Dude that isn't what I am saying... don't over react! I am not saying that your being too calm makes you scum... No. What I am saying is that the handful of things that I think of as "classic" ash look a bit more forced... that you are indeed trying to maintain a "persona." The calling out the scum slip, the blatant tunneling. Look, I am all for you trying to change your game style. Really. I am. Because your town meta drives me crazy and I honestly think that most of the time it is not beneficial to town. I am sorry and I am not trying to offend but this is the truth. Look at Bankers. You were right there! Completely on the ball! You nailed down the scum team, but the way in which you played: angry, defensive, tunneling, reactive, self voting, etc, etc, etc distracted everyone from listening to you. You are right when you say that we should actually listen to you, but it is hard when so distracted. But this is all beside the point.... What I am saying here is that in this game you are either 1. kinda changing your play style or 2. you are scum trying to put forward enough of your former play style to not turn any heads. What I really find you scummy for is supporting all 3 wagons day1 and am starting to find you more scummy for your arguments on mcmc (both of these things have very little to do with your meta or potentially changing meta and more to do with general scum behavior). So no I am not saying "he isn't being scummy, he must be scum." What I am saying is that his play style is different than usual. I wonder why? And then I am saying that aside from that you have done some scummy things! Hence you being on the scummy side. Now however, you making this whole conversation more about your meta is scummy. Because you don't address what is actually scummy and just distract and dilute my whole point about you!
I don't blame you for just focusing on mcmc. I blame the way that you are doing it... tying lio and mcmc together in a nice pretty package.
The scum slip isn't ridiculous. It isn't a "0% chance of flipping town" sort of scumslip. It's a sign that he's scum and can't quite hide it sort of scumslip.
No it is ridiculous. It is ridiculous because most of these slips (I would say in the 95% range are absolutely garbage. Let's look at the actual quote from mcmc shall we, highlighting the part you say was a slip?QuoteI'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)
Obviously mcmc is here talking about a hypothetical world in which he and lio are scum partners. Obviously in this hypothetical world he is going to be saying something to the sort of "if one of you flips scum" because that is the very point he is trying to make. How else can he make that point w/o using that sort of language.
now if you want to talk about the scumminess of using such hypothetical situations as a defense... the "this is/isn't what I would do if I were scum" argument I am all ears... but you dont' bring up that point at all and instead it is just a "scum slip"
I am being obtuse? Obtuse? How so? And if so, wouldn't that completely contradict what you are saying about me immediately below. Because how is me being difficult and slow and annoying (because that is how I define the word obtuse) so "towny." If I am being slow and annoying I am most certainly not being "towny."He's being towny and leading town (even when he's trying not to lead town by passing the buck to Robz) and we all know scum!yuma does that. Go see every game ever in teh history of time. When yuma is towny, he's scum. Good luck arguing against that, scummyscumscumscum.
This argument.... just sucks. You are right. I can't argue against it. I do think I am pro-town and I try to be pro-town in all my games. I was pro-town and leading in Ninjas, in Bankers and in Pirates... What alignment was I? Town! Just because I actually have a pro-town meta in both my town and mafia games... compared to yours which... well isn't... doesn't mean that I am automatically scum when I am pro-town. That is just dumb and evidence is obviously to the contrary on this. So I don't know how you can just say "scummyscumscumscum" and be done with it. It doesn't work that way and you know it.
No you are the one being obtuse and I can't help but wonder if you decided to fly off the handle after I said that it was unusual because you weren't...
I've never seen scum!ash. what's he like?
This is a really long paragraph to say "ash, you suck at this game because while you catch scum as town, we all think you are lying scum when you are town so fix it felix or gtfo."
Ugh, I'm still way behind in this, and unlikely to catch up until at least tomorrow. Deadline not for a while, right?
I'll try to keep it short since we are kinda dominating the thread at the moment...I don't think it is a problem. good interactions to look at later!
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 ;)
Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...
But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!
what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?
Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.
Man, who does this? "I know! I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both! That'll work awesomely!"
You honestly see scum!ash doing that? Am I not a vet to you? Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum? That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.
Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.
I think the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!
All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)
All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)
How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?
I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
That wasn't the question. A pretty weasly response....Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.That wasn't the question. A pretty weasly response....Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.That wasn't the question. A pretty weasly response....Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...Okay. Yes I have considered the case. I'd rather lynch mcmc.That wasn't the question. A pretty weasly response....Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
If there are not enough votes for an mc lynch would you be willing ginger on out wagon, or are you going to sit it out even if it costs us a no-lynch. Or do you find the the X case so meritless you are unwilling to join it at all? Or something else?
Ok. Let me try this again since we seem to be miscommunicating...
If there are not enough votes for an mc lynch would you be willing ginger on out wagon, or are you going to sit it out even if it costs us a no-lynch. Or do you find the the X case so meritless you are unwilling to join it at all? Or something else?
I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.
No kiddingI'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.
It's been more than 5 hours. Let's get this game active!
Why? You've now played with me as scum.Eh I'd much rather lynch mcmc.I think I'm on mcmc. If I'm not, vote: mcmcI don't think the votes are going to be there for that---have you considered the xerion case and joining our wagon?
That inferaction with Mai has me very comfortable with lynching either him or xerion....2 good targets, lets line up the votes. (Robzzzzz!?!)
I'm not sure what vla you're referring to. His techno free tuesday? How would that impact our soft deadline? He certainly had the opportunity to answer my questions but just like all game he just ducks itThat inferaction with Mai has me very comfortable with lynching either him or xerion....2 good targets, lets line up the votes. (Robzzzzz!?!)
Like I said above I am uncomfortable lynching mail-mi while he is VLA. Lynching him without giving him a a chance to fully respond, claim and provide reads before death isn't ideal. If he was obviscum, or if we were at mylo... maybe I would consider it, but we aren't right now. It sucks that VLA has to affect the game, especially if mail-mi is mafia and is getting a free pass today, but that is just the nature of online games that take weeks to complete.
I'm not sure what vla you're referring to. His techno free tuesday? How would that impact our soft deadline? He certainly had the opportunity to answer my questions but just like all game he just ducks itThat inferaction with Mai has me very comfortable with lynching either him or xerion....2 good targets, lets line up the votes. (Robzzzzz!?!)
Like I said above I am uncomfortable lynching mail-mi while he is VLA. Lynching him without giving him a a chance to fully respond, claim and provide reads before death isn't ideal. If he was obviscum, or if we were at mylo... maybe I would consider it, but we aren't right now. It sucks that VLA has to affect the game, especially if mail-mi is mafia and is getting a free pass today, but that is just the nature of online games that take weeks to complete.
Leaving for Hawaii on Monday, VLA til Friday or Saturday.
To help our IC who is obviously severely behind I am going to try and put together this catch up post... Sorry if I miss anything. I am going to try and be all inclusive, but if you feel I missed anything or placed too much emphasis on anything let it be known.
...
Hope that helps.
I'm here, dunno what to say, I gave reads, I have yet to reread the people I said I would, I'll do that during class breaks.
And Robz... I am significantly disappointed in you. If you are busy, I get it. Being busy is rough in these games especially with their pace... but you aren't just not rereading, you aren't directing, you aren't moving the game forward, you aren't doing anything. Obviously I am not pointing a FOS at you. But I am calling you out and saying "step up! We need you." But if you continue to not step up, I am. At this rate we are headed for a no-lynch, or a last minute scramble that in all likelyhood will result in another crappy mislynch.
I'm here, dunno what to say, I gave reads, I have yet to reread the people I said I would, I'll do that during class breaks.
I am right there with you on not doing the reread I said I would, but mostly I just feel like we needed a jump start. So I don't know if there is anything specific that I want from you... or from anybody (well I would like participation as a starter from some people) but would you agree that we somehow hit a wall? How do you think we fix that and get moving? Cause sitting back and doing nothing is a horrible option.
Best guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Alright. This is getting ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. This town needs some leadership and motivation and if that leadership and motivation isn't going to come from our IC then it needs to come from somewhere.
soft deadline: Thursday at 9 pm forum time. Be there or be anti-town.
Eevee, mcmc, xeiron, mail-mi, ahoppy you all get a FOS for not participating the way I would expect and want you to. VLA exists I know, but still our participation rate is steadily trending toward the bottom in a very not good way.
Really this has turned into a game played by myself, ash, spiritbears and lio of late.
And Robz... I am significantly disappointed in you. If you are busy, I get it. Being busy is rough in these games especially with their pace... but you aren't just not rereading, you aren't directing, you aren't moving the game forward, you aren't doing anything. Obviously I am not pointing a FOS at you. But I am calling you out and saying "step up! We need you." But if you continue to not step up, I am. At this rate we are headed for a no-lynch, or a last minute scramble that in all likelyhood will result in another crappy mislynch.
I don't work today and tomorrow and am going to try and push this town as much as I can during that time. Robz if you want to jump in at anytime... go ahead... until then, well I am going to do my best on my own.
It should probably be noted that I believe I was the first one to make a case on mc (for inconsistent play and riding Lio), but got off that train when I decided tunneling Lio for an entire game was just way too risky for scum (a feeling I'm not sure but I believe yuma doesn't share).
I'm here, dunno what to say, I gave reads, I have yet to reread the people I said I would, I'll do that during class breaks.
I am right there with you on not doing the reread I said I would, but mostly I just feel like we needed a jump start. So I don't know if there is anything specific that I want from you... or from anybody (well I would like participation as a starter from some people) but would you agree that we somehow hit a wall? How do you think we fix that and get moving? Cause sitting back and doing nothing is a horrible option.
I agree, okay, town lets go we are screwing ourselves. Everyone respond to how they feel ashersky has played. I think he is very hard to read and is often times all over the place, but one thing that I always notice, he is a huuuuuuge poster/contributor/stimulator. Lately hes just blah, I think it' because when he does contribute huge amounts, he is also usually a big lynch target, however he has said many times he is happy to be lynched if it leads to a town victory. I don't see that here. He sounded quite strong in his read on me but I don't think he is pushing it as hard as typical town!ash. Anyone else think hes playing differently?
I do think he is playing differently... But like I said above is it ash actually playing differently (seeing that his approach in recent games as town isn't working...) or is it ash playing as scum and adding just enough of his meta!townself to try and create his old "persona"?
I am not sure. And like I said above if he is trying to change his meta I fully support it (but don't demand it!!) and part of that I would imagine is not self voting or offering to kill himself off for town (something that if he is town--and when he has offered that he often was--I think is negative for town, because it means we are lynching a townie! How does that help town?)
I am trying to keep an open mind with him, because like we argued about above... it isn't just his responsibility to change... it is also our responsibility to make sure that we understand his arguments. If I had allowed myself to listen to him in Bankers maybe we would have helped me see the scum in that game that I ignored because of my emotional response to him...
rereading ash's arguments on mcmc and mcmc himself with as open as a mind as I can muster... This is less for everyone and more for myself and keeping track of my thoughts... I'll try to post a prettier, easier to read summary later.
Alright right out of the gates ash puts mcmc and mail-mi high on his list of scummy based off vote counts.
His next post is wagon analysis and says this:QuoteBest guess? We're better off finding scum off-wagon. One, maybe two scum there. mcmcsalot is there again. He and Eevee were most named as choices for scum partners, right?
Already according to ash, mcmc meets 3 qualifiers as why he is scum... 1. post count 2. wagon analysis and 3. most named for scum partners
He then immediately jumps into rereading mcmc and calls him out for not being around end of day1 and for his post about mcmc "knowing" robz is town.
From this he is calls mcmc a scum read... but he isn't finished with the scum read.
Mcmc then calls a scumteam with lio/spiritbears/eevee and that pushes ash over the edge and he votes for him and then creates a case. (note: my gut instinct is to find voting and then creating the case scummy, but the fact of the matter is that I do that all the time as town, but very rarely as scum...)
Ash's main points are: 1. off-wagon 2. likely partner of choice 3. lower post count 4. didn't "know" robz was confirmed IC 5. feigning indifference as a gambit 6. was on no day1 wagons 7. tunneling lio 8. trying to tie mail-mi and lio and then switching to lio-sb-eevee
Ash then theorizes in response to mcmc and lio that it is possible that mcmc and lio are staging a fight and adds a "scum slip" in there for fun... and also accuses him of misrepresenting.
1. Off-wagon. I think that's the best place to find scum, especially given the on-wagon NK. I think majority off-wagon scum killed on-wagon.I gotta disagree with many of these. I have a town read on mcmc, so I'll kinda defend him.
2. Likely partner of choice. This is subjective and WIFOMable, but I don't think it should be ignored. Mcmc is a very possible selection for a partner.
3. Lower post count. Mcmc wouldn't argue against this. He usually posts a lot more. History has taught us scum lurk more than town.
4. Didn't know Robz was an IC. This is still unfathomable to me. Missed it while it happened? Maybe. Didn't catch it when reading the thread to catch up? Impossible.
5. Feigning indifference. I think this is a possible gambit for mcmc because of his established meta that he really cares about winning as scum, and that he likes these games overall. "auto in for all regular and blitz" is his mantra.
6. No D1 wagons. As mention (and I think we disagree here, but that's fine), I think no wagons is scummy, while all or most wagons is towny. That's because I think scum is less likely to want to be on record voting for people, since we look at voting records all the time for analysis.
7. Lio tunnel. This is tricky, since I've made a few guesses as to why. Lio is always a good mislynch target when town, because he's kind of easy to lynch. So that's one thing. I could definitely see it as a staged bus, given their history together and the way Lio isn't OMGUSing or reacting at all.
8. Naming teams and switching around. This looked like scum flailing at the time, and still does on re-read. Tying folks together as a team, then going whoops, maybe this group instead is scummy.
Sorry if I wasn't clear ash, I don't think your scummy for not self-voting or dying for town. I think your scummy because your not as loud as I expect you to be. Self voting, and offering to be lynched I don't expect, but cases to back up your reads, lots of reads, challenging people on game theory, coming up with ideas, making people believe what you believe, are all things I expect from town!ash. All I see is ash who thinks I'm scum but doesn't push it or anything very hard. Not offering to be lynched and not wanting to stand out are two different things.Have to admit this does kindof make sense. Not ready to come off my town read oh ash yet though.
First off, it's worth note that this is Ahoppy's first game I believe. It also so happens that scum chose their partners this game. he is in the same boat as nkirbit in that they are unlikely choices. However, scum did know a little bit about Ahoppy pre-game. He has played in many non-mafia forum games and has 89 posts in the main forum, you know, the part about dominion? So while I think he is less likely to be chosen than others, he could still very well be chosen because whoever the scum was might have known a little bit about him. compare to nkirbit (who is town) who all that scum knew about him was that he was TwistedArcher's brother.by many, he means that I played in Agricola III (with none of you) and am currently in 7 Wonders IV with lio and NK, and which I requested be started. So yes, I've played forum games, but only 2 (well, I'm starting an Agricola IV). Some exaggeration on lio's part. All that people know about me is that I like Dominion, I'm not very good at it, as you could see by going back through my 89 posts. I played in the last IsoDom last year (Doing horribly). I improved considerably for the first Gokodom, but still only won 1 match and drew I think 2 of them. So yeah, that's a bit about me. And no spiritbears, I'm no alter ego :P If you look, my lingo and understanding only extends to what lingo and theories that have been discussed thus far.
I don't know what to do with all that information, but I do think that pushes AHoppy into townread territory. I just don't see scum going through all that trouble just to arrive at very little in the way of conclusions except to mention himself in the scummy group.
The numbers after each section is just a count of the votes. So now I then broke this down further (I have this on paper, not digital, so no copy-paste here). I took each person and just looked at who else that person had voted for. How do I use this information though? well, what do I know? I know 3 of these people are townies. So, let's look at who voted for the townies
key: [name] - [number of townies voted for]/[total number of different people voted for]
ash - 2/7
-> mm- 3/7
mc - 0/4
-> nk - 2/5
lio - 2/3
sb - 1/6
ah - 0/2
y - 2/3
mgp/x - 2/6
rob - 1/6
ev - 1/3
s - 1/4
I didn't say xeiron was scummy or not scummy. I din't say anything about him. In truth, my reads are weak, guys, even after re-reading. That tends to make me think lurkers are scum...Whether you think they are strong or weak is beyond the scope.... I think we are all I interested in your reads, 1) because of the sneaky way you were able to have reactions st the start of the game and 2) because you are the one person here without hidden motives that we can trust inherently. So please please please make the effort. Even a modest effort helps us.
I am making the effort, it's just that nothing is really jumping out of me, which makes me think lurkers are scum (because if they were posting more, things would be jumping out at me, presumably). This points me toward a mail-mi lynch.I don't disagree. Mai is a legitimate candidate, vla or otherwise. I'm not sure we can get consensus on that, but I'm certainly willing to join your wagon
Mail-mi is looking scummy to me too. I'm willing to jump on that wagon as well. If you guys say he looks scummy, even knowing his meta, then I will trust you. Previously, I was told my read was mostly based on his play style, but you're saying this is even more out of the ordinary. So I'm now willing to vote and lynch him. Vote: mail-miI am making the effort, it's just that nothing is really jumping out of me, which makes me think lurkers are scum (because if they were posting more, things would be jumping out at me, presumably). This points me toward a mail-mi lynch.I don't disagree. Mai is a legitimate candidate, vla or otherwise. I'm not sure we can get consensus on that, but I'm certainly willing to join your wagon
Well I don't know his Meta. My read is based 100% on his play this game. Hid weasly response to me kindof sealed the deal for me. But I'd like to hear from robz about how he thinks we should handle the vla problem beforeiI come over....Mail-mi is looking scummy to me too. I'm willing to jump on that wagon as well. If you guys say he looks scummy, even knowing his meta, then I will trust you. Previously, I was told my read was mostly based on his play style, but you're saying this is even more out of the ordinary. So I'm now willing to vote and lynch him. Vote: mail-miI am making the effort, it's just that nothing is really jumping out of me, which makes me think lurkers are scum (because if they were posting more, things would be jumping out at me, presumably). This points me toward a mail-mi lynch.I don't disagree. Mai is a legitimate candidate, vla or otherwise. I'm not sure we can get consensus on that, but I'm certainly willing to join your wagon
Total Mentions:
4: Eevee
3: liopoil
2: yuma, ashesrky, mail-mi, mgp, mcmc
1: robz, ahoppy, sb
0: nkirbit, sudgy
An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eevee
except that scum didn't necessarily tell the truth about who they would pick.True.
Eevee could have been on 5 or 6 if they had.
And we will find out by lynching him.
xeiron has just 18 posts, so not very hard to reread. Man being behind in a game sucks though, this'll teach me not to go multiple days without at least checking the threads..
I find xeiron's early vote on me extremely fishy. It was like "well the two new guys no one thought would get picked were town, so the guy named the most must be scum, vote: eevee, why not, we'll see if this was right after he flips". Really absolves himself of all the responsibility there. Backs out when it doesn't get traction, saying "it was just a joke".
Also, in the suoerhugemassivemonster post from ahop I really don't remember voting for eevee this game. I wonder about the contextI didn't remove RVS votes from the analysis. I wasn't sure if those could mean anything or not. Would scum vote RVS at the beginning? would they pick out a partner or just a random townie? No idea, I had no experience with this. So if you go back, your eevee vote could have only been during RVS.
Eevee I think I get most of what you're saying and where you're coming from. But I don't get how ash and Yuma are different reads for the (almost) exact same behavior. Seems to me if Yuma acting towny is town!Yuma, ash acting towny is probably town!ash.....I think ashersky has less of a reaction to the inactivity / his reaction didn't come until yuma already expressed dissatisfaction with what was going on. But, as I said earlier, it's possible ash just wasn't online or something, I don't know how the weekend went in "real time", just see the posts now.
For me it's not so much about robz absense but what he posts when he comes around....quickbhits with little or no explanation. I think there's a better scum case for him than eevee. But I'm interested to see how he reacts to a little pressure. So
vote eevee
xeiron has just 18 posts, so not very hard to reread. Man being behind in a game sucks though, this'll teach me not to go multiple days without at least checking the threads..
I find xeiron's early vote on me extremely fishy. It was like "well the two new guys no one thought would get picked were town, so the guy named the most must be scum, vote: eevee, why not, we'll see if this was right after he flips". Really absolves himself of all the responsibility there. Backs out when it doesn't get traction, saying "it was just a joke".
An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eevee
Ok, so I am not serious in wanting to lynch blindly from the total mentions list.
Liopoil is my prefered lynch candidate, but I can propably be convinced to lynch anyone of mcmc, eevee, yuma or mail-mi.
Ugh, I do not like that mail-mi is getting a pass in both on-going games.
I do think xeiron is our best lynch anyway though.
erm, also not being able to activate and IC status he might have is a factor. Imagine if robz hadn't showed up! we would have lynched him anyway.Well yeah, or give some power role result he might have, or whatever. My point exactly!
I think without the VLA thing, mail-mi would be an excellent candidate. yuma, why do you think that?
The problem is, xeiron is pretty much my only scumread. I think Ahoppy, spiritbears, and mcmcsalot are all town. mail-mi I am unsure on, and I still think there is a scum in yuma-eevee-ashersky. And in that group, I think Yuma is the best lynch, followed by eevee and ashersky. So:
Want to lynch: xeiron
Would definitely lynch: Yuma
Of course, since I was an IC, we know mail-mi isn't, so the worst case scenario is out.There could be two theoretically I guess, but true. He could still be a cop with an investigation result or something, which would be even worse.
General point I thought of when reading ash's case on mcmc: If we think scum has manipulated the "who would I choose" lists (and I do, as I know I wasn't chosen and I was at the top of the list), we should look for possible scum teams within people who listed the same guys, right?
Someone was saying that mcmc wouldn't continue the tunnel like he has here if he was scum, and I got to say I really disagree. I remember myself back in RMM3, some townies did some things I legitimely found scummy, so as scum I was super happy to just pound on them, insisting we need to lynch these guys. I knew they were town (or not on my team anyways), but it was easy to appear convinced as the things I called them out on were things I actually thought of as scummy. I think that could have happened to mcmc as well, I don't think holding onto suspicion others dont share with you is a town trait. When rereading things to remember what was what in this game, I happened to notice mcmc not answering not one but TWO questions I asked from him in two separate posts, despite being active and interacting with other people all the time, even in between said questions. First was "how did the timeline with your why is robz town? - confusion" go exactly, the second was about him calling scum teams and if him somehow getting the information I'm town would change his view about other members of "our team" he was calling. I'm getting a feeling mcmc could be avoiding these questions because he is realizing he is getting tangled in a web of lies and wouldn't be able to get out if he got scrutinized more.
Like idk, I don't even remember everyone here and need to reread more, but I can't get around the fact mcmc built a bad fake case against me as scum in pirates, I immediately realized the case is full of holes and now he is here calling scum trios day three and I should take note of it.
So sorta said it in the last post, this(xeiron's post) looks scummy as a standalone statement as well as with my scum read on ash.Liopoil is my prefered lynch candidate, but I can propably be convinced to lynch anyone of mcmc, eevee, yuma or mail-mi.
ie. he is willing to lynch anyone that isn't himself/IC or someone that obviously isn't getting lynched today (sb, ahoppy) and have more or less townreads all around... putting ash into that category of "unlynchable," which I think is always a bad idea is also a bit surprising...
If I was going on vacation for a week right before deadline and had a scum result on someone, I would share it first. So I think that's practically impossible. But yeah, he could be like a PR. That actually wouldn't really stop me, but the VLA excuse is legit, and the only reaosn I read him scummy is his lack of presence, which checks out.Lynching any power role with any result without getting a claim would suck tremendously! Do you remember my case from earlier though? There is definitely more to my suspicion to him than his lack of presence. If mail-mi is town, then we managed to run up three wagons on townies day 1.. which is possible, but I actually think there is a very good chance mail-mi is scum here. Really sucks that being vla makes him untouchable for today.
Okay, first of all, apologies here as well. Disappearing like I did is very inconsiderate for fellow players and the mods, real life just got in the way. Sorry, I'm back now.
This post will also be a catch up post for myself, I don't know if it was that there weren't even that much new stuff (like 3 new pages or so), or what, but I don't remember things very well at all. Robz's posts about having read but still not having a clue resonate with me.
General point I thought of when reading ash's case on mcmc: If we think scum has manipulated the "who would I choose" lists (and I do, as I know I wasn't chosen and I was at the top of the list), we should look for possible scum teams within people who listed the same guys, right?
Someone was saying that mcmc wouldn't continue the tunnel like he has here if he was scum, and I got to say I really disagree. I remember myself back in RMM3, some townies did some things I legitimely found scummy, so as scum I was super happy to just pound on them, insisting we need to lynch these guys. I knew they were town (or not on my team anyways), but it was easy to appear convinced as the things I called them out on were things I actually thought of as scummy. I think that could have happened to mcmc as well, I don't think holding onto suspicion others dont share with you is a town trait. When rereading things to remember what was what in this game, I happened to notice mcmc not answering not one but TWO questions I asked from him in two separate posts, despite being active and interacting with other people all the time, even in between said questions. First was "how did the timeline with your why is robz town? - confusion" go exactly, the second was about him calling scum teams and if him somehow getting the information I'm town would change his view about other members of "our team" he was calling. I'm getting a feeling mcmc could be avoiding these questions because he is realizing he is getting tangled in a web of lies and wouldn't be able to get out if he got scrutinized more.
Like idk, I don't even remember everyone here and need to reread more, but I can't get around the fact mcmc built a bad fake case against me as scum in pirates, I immediately realized the case is full of holes and now he is here calling scum trios day three and I should take note of it.
Sucks that mail-mi is V/LA. My case on him is 100% what it used to be, as he hasn't rebutted it at all. I think that's a very good place to look for a lynch, but is it good enough given that he isn't here to claim? Robz, what do you think? Do you remember my case on him?
Yuma is seeming so towny to me. I know he is always the leader and it has fooled me before, but it feels there would be no talking at all unless he stepped up. Similarly ashersky's not being super bummed about no one posting feels scummy to me, as I imagine town ash would have possibly done the thing yuma did as well. But I'm a little confused about when exactly what happened as I wasn't reading the posts (or the lack of them) in real time, so it's hard to say.
Spirit still seems towny to me, nothing new there.
eHalcyon did a similar "a lot of work" thing to aHoppy in O's huge game with two scum teams (and I totally thought he was obvtown for it, he was scum), so I wouldn't extend as much town cred to him for that as others seem to. However, I still have the earlier townread on him for other reasons, and no reason to deviate from that.
I'm probably getting xeiron and liopoil here and xeiron and liopoil in my other game mixed up, need to reread a bit to form any kind of opinion on them.
Eevee I think I get most of what you're saying and where you're coming from. But I don't get how ash and Yuma are different reads for the (almost) exact same behavior. Seems to me if Yuma acting towny is town!Yuma, ash acting towny is probably town!ash.....I think ashersky has less of a reaction to the inactivity / his reaction didn't come until yuma already expressed dissatisfaction with what was going on. But, as I said earlier, it's possible ash just wasn't online or something, I don't know how the weekend went in "real time", just see the posts now.
xeiron has just 18 posts, so not very hard to reread. Man being behind in a game sucks though, this'll teach me not to go multiple days without at least checking the threads..
I find xeiron's early vote on me extremely fishy. It was like "well the two new guys no one thought would get picked were town, so the guy named the most must be scum, vote: eevee, why not, we'll see if this was right after he flips". Really absolves himself of all the responsibility there. Backs out when it doesn't get traction, saying "it was just a joke".
My problem isn't that "it was just a joke" but rather that he dramatically backed of the idea after being called out on it. Let me pull up what was said about it earlier because I dont' remember the exact words from memory...An eevee lynch looks quite good.
The fact that eevee tops this list could actually mean that eevee had the highest probability of becoming scum in this game.
We already know that the "most unobvious" according to this list, nkirbit and sudgy are not scum. I believe none in the next step, robz, ahoppy and sb are scum eihter. So the number of mentions clearly isn't that off.
Why not start lynching from the top?
vote: eeveeOk, so I am not serious in wanting to lynch blindly from the total mentions list.
So here we can see the xeiron says that an "eevee lynch" is quite good. He says it is quite good solely based of the scum-partner list and absolutely nothing else. It is so quite good that he puts a vote down on it.
I then call him out on it and he backs off it dramatically, starts up a new wagon on lio, and then says he "is not serious." I don't get the change. Nothing changed in-between his two posts in regard to eevee except for me calling him out for a bad idea. He then tries to gracefully back away from it and move the conversation away from him and onto lio... with (might I add) a pretty bad case on lio.
So it wasn't that it was a joke, it was that he changed from serious to non-serious in response to pressure. This makes me think that the vote on eevee and then also the vote on lio were attempts to start up wagons (and potentially mislynches)
There was something rubbing me the wrong way about liopoil and now I see it: that level of confidence on mail-mi being town just seems scummy to me, as I really really don't see any base for it. Could be scum "stuck" in a read they had to fake for future wagon analysis reasons?Trying to find the quotes for mcmc (quite a task with a thread this long :(), stumbled upon this. Thought I'd share it, had completely forgotten myself.
Maybe too late for that today, but if I don't wake up tomorrow, please remember this!
General point I thought of when reading ash's case on mcmc: If we think scum has manipulated the "who would I choose" lists (and I do, as I know I wasn't chosen and I was at the top of the list), we should look for possible scum teams within people who listed the same guys, right?
Someone was saying that mcmc wouldn't continue the tunnel like he has here if he was scum, and I got to say I really disagree. I remember myself back in RMM3, some townies did some things I legitimely found scummy, so as scum I was super happy to just pound on them, insisting we need to lynch these guys. I knew they were town (or not on my team anyways), but it was easy to appear convinced as the things I called them out on were things I actually thought of as scummy. I think that could have happened to mcmc as well, I don't think holding onto suspicion others dont share with you is a town trait. When rereading things to remember what was what in this game, I happened to notice mcmc not answering not one but TWO questions I asked from him in two separate posts, despite being active and interacting with other people all the time, even in between said questions. First was "how did the timeline with your why is robz town? - confusion" go exactly, the second was about him calling scum teams and if him somehow getting the information I'm town would change his view about other members of "our team" he was calling. I'm getting a feeling mcmc could be avoiding these questions because he is realizing he is getting tangled in a web of lies and wouldn't be able to get out if he got scrutinized more.
Like idk, I don't even remember everyone here and need to reread more, but I can't get around the fact mcmc built a bad fake case against me as scum in pirates, I immediately realized the case is full of holes and now he is here calling scum trios day three and I should take note of it.
Woah now eevee, wanna support where I'm callin trios? I may have said I thought people could be connected but I know for a fact I have no scum team in mind. I find liopoil scummy, I find ash scummy, currently(I'll adress in the next post) I find xeiron scummy as well. They could be a team, it fits, and makes sense for ash to plop me and lio together, It makes sense for xieron to have a town read on one of his partners and bus the other. Now am I saying boom thats the scum team no, and I doubt I said that before. So dont make it sound like I'm claiming all kinds of stuff and being trapped in a web of lies. Also wanna repost those questions so I can answer(I'll look and see why I missed them)
Here's my big question for today, as we approach the soft deadline:
When it comes to the D2 lynch, how worried are we about a mislynch? To put it another way, is a mislynch worse today, or on D3?
Here's my big question for today, as we approach the soft deadline:
When it comes to the D2 lynch, how worried are we about a mislynch? To put it another way, is a mislynch worse today, or on D3?
A mislynch today and we are in lylo. Yes we are worried about a mislynch today.
Okay, I've held off for as long as I felt comfortable with this, and I think we got some good interactions to analyze.
I am a Tracker. I tracked mcmc last night; he targeted nkirbit.
I've been pressing so hard on mcmc because I did in fact know he's scum. I tried my best to get you all the see it without having to claim, since now I'm dead tonight (unless there's a doc, and please if there is, save me so I can report another track tomorrow). I hinted as much to this effect all over the place, probably too obvious for scum anyway.
Some other things to note: don't ask me about the flavor stuff (role names and all that), I am not talking about it, per the rules of this game. I thought about this for a long time, and the only way my result is wrong is (I think) if there's a Bus Driver. So I guess, if there is a Bus Driver AND you Drove mcmc with someone, a claim could be in order. Otherwise, we should just lynch mcmc.
I tracked mcmc because I believed from the get go he was a good option for people to choose as a partner and he was strangely inactive most of D1 and especially near the end.
Now, let's lynch mcmc to ensure no mislynch. I asked my question in case there was something I was missing about possibly trying to lynch a partner today, putting my result out there in twilight, then lynching mcmc tomorrow. I think it is too risky, and so I'm claiming now instead.
Did you mix your towns and scums there, sb?Don't think so. I've said all game long I read ash as town. Mc initially scum, but I thought tunneling Lio too risky for scum.
Uhm, why does this new information give you pause then? To me it makes ash being town and mcmc being scum much more likely, which is what you initially believed.Did you mix your towns and scums there, sb?Don't think so. I've said all game long I read ash as town. Mc initially scum, but I thought tunneling Lio too risky for scum.
Because it was unforced and not just a little unexpected. I don't know how anyone would not be taken aback by that claim coming as it did.Uhm, why does this new information give you pause then? To me it makes ash being town and mcmc being scum much more likely, which is what you initially believed.Did you mix your towns and scums there, sb?Don't think so. I've said all game long I read ash as town. Mc initially scum, but I thought tunneling Lio too risky for scum.
Unvote
People, unvote from mcmc until he's talked and we think this over.
unvote
I'm considering this new info. I've had town read on Ash all game so it's difficult for me to abandon that now
Mc. Initially read scum. And now have to reconsider that read.
vote: mcmcTHIS screams of mcmc!partner, should mcmc be scum.
this combined with him tunnelling mcmc all day makes it obvious that ash planned this claim from the start if he's scum. I'm leaning towards mcmc being the scum.ashersky, you do not KNOW that mcmc is scum, just like mcmc doesn't KNOW that I'm scum (Inb4 you call that a scumslip). And many of us disagree with you that he is very scummy. You can't base reads off mcmc being scum until he has flipped scum.
You can't think of an edge case here? This town is terrible.
vote: mcmcTHIS screams of mcmc!partner, should mcmc be scum.
mcmc might self-hammer if he's scum.
UnvoteI didn't understand this at all. Mc is more likely to talk st l-1 (or two maybe)....asking everyone to get off mc st that point seemed not only unnecessary but unhelpful.
People, unvote from mcmc until he's talked and we think this over.
:)Again unnecessary. Robz already fingered mc for one of his preferred lynches today. I'm not saying don't listen to robz. I'm saying I don't get your reaction to mc suddenly becoming a viable lynch.
Robz, you should probably direct how to proceed from here... Should something come up and mcmc being scum isn't quite so obvious, I'd probably be fine with him just making the decision for us. In this case in particular scum can swing things.
like I said before, I don't want to give him the oppourtunity to self-hammer! That would be very bad!Really? Is that so likely??? We didn't even have anyone with the intent to hammer mc. I just can't see him self hammering? If there's a chance he stays alive, he fights for it. Self hammering doesn't get him anywhere...especially so early
:)
Robz, you should probably direct how to proceed from here... Should something come up and mcmc being scum isn't quite so obvious, I'd probably be fine with him just making the decision for us. In this case in particular scum can swing things.
:)
Robz, you should probably direct how to proceed from here... Should something come up and mcmc being scum isn't quite so obvious, I'd probably be fine with him just making the decision for us. In this case in particular scum can swing things.
No, stop trying to thrust the burden to me. I think it's tactically unwise for town. If I had a strong, strong sense of who was scum, I would bark at you all to fall in line. Since I don't, I think a more natural process is better.
and even if self-hammering as scum is a bad move, putting him at L-2 so that he doesn't have the opportunity to self-hammer still can't hurt.
Okay, I've held off for as long as I felt comfortable with this, and I think we got some good interactions to analyze.
I am a Tracker. I tracked mcmc last night; he targeted nkirbit.
I've been pressing so hard on mcmc because I did in fact know he's scum. I tried my best to get you all the see it without having to claim, since now I'm dead tonight (unless there's a doc, and please if there is, save me so I can report another track tomorrow). I hinted as much to this effect all over the place, probably too obvious for scum anyway.
Some other things to note: don't ask me about the flavor stuff (role names and all that), I am not talking about it, per the rules of this game. I thought about this for a long time, and the only way my result is wrong is (I think) if there's a Bus Driver. So I guess, if there is a Bus Driver AND you Drove mcmc with someone, a claim could be in order. Otherwise, we should just lynch mcmc.
I tracked mcmc because I believed from the get go he was a good option for people to choose as a partner and he was strangely inactive most of D1 and especially near the end.
Now, let's lynch mcmc to ensure no mislynch. I asked my question in case there was something I was missing about possibly trying to lynch a partner today, putting my result out there in twilight, then lynching mcmc tomorrow. I think it is too risky, and so I'm claiming now instead.
Okay, I've held off for as long as I felt comfortable with this, and I think we got some good interactions to analyze.
I am a Tracker. I tracked mcmc last night; he targeted nkirbit.
I've been pressing so hard on mcmc because I did in fact know he's scum. I tried my best to get you all the see it without having to claim, since now I'm dead tonight (unless there's a doc, and please if there is, save me so I can report another track tomorrow). I hinted as much to this effect all over the place, probably too obvious for scum anyway.
Some other things to note: don't ask me about the flavor stuff (role names and all that), I am not talking about it, per the rules of this game. I thought about this for a long time, and the only way my result is wrong is (I think) if there's a Bus Driver. So I guess, if there is a Bus Driver AND you Drove mcmc with someone, a claim could be in order. Otherwise, we should just lynch mcmc.
I tracked mcmc because I believed from the get go he was a good option for people to choose as a partner and he was strangely inactive most of D1 and especially near the end.
Now, let's lynch mcmc to ensure no mislynch. I asked my question in case there was something I was missing about possibly trying to lynch a partner today, putting my result out there in twilight, then lynching mcmc tomorrow. I think it is too risky, and so I'm claiming now instead.
yay ash is scum not true!
Uh, yeah, ash is definitely not lying. Fine to hammer mcmc at any point.Then we need eevee/lio or you to get back on board and vote
Good work ash, let's read back and look for mcmc partners during night.
Vote Count 2.7
mcmcsalot (4): ashersky, mail-mi, xeiron, spiritbears
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
xeiron (1): yuma
mail-mi (1): AHoppy
Not voting: Robz888, Eevee
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Saturday, June 8th
I believe eevee unvoted to appease lio. But now that robz has weighed in they should both be fine with revoting. I do wish yuma had weighed in more (or at all since ash claim???) i know not everyone reads him as towny as I do, but he's an important voice nonetheless.VoI e Count 2.7
mcmcsalot (4): ashersky, mail-mi, xeiron, spiritbears
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
xeiron (1): yuma
mail-mi (1): AHoppy
Not voting: Robz888, Eevee
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Saturday, June 8th
Here's the latest. Liopoil isn't listed, but he's under the "Not voting" category, I believe.
Vote: mcmcL-1?
Vote: mcmcL-1?
Jesus. How come you guys are all up this late???
Yah forgot you were on Aussie time. For robz though this must be middle of the night.
so lets not lynch mcmc until we hear from mailmi. great to have you back!
Wow. The one time I have a late night and am unable to be online the thread absolutely explodes.
I see ash's claim and I am in a dilemma. Ugh... I have a piece of knowledge that I think makes ash's claim less likely to be true, but doesn't guarantee that it isn't and I don't know if I should reveal it or not.
I mean just typing this out implies that I have something worth revealing and is dangerous so maybe I should go ahead and say it, but at this juncture I am not so sure what to do. Give me a bit to think about it--weigh in if you want... although generally there is no one online when I am post this early in the morning.
Well, if you only give us that much, there is not much we can do to help with your decision. I'm quite sure you should just decide it yourself and not ask for input that vaguely. I mean, if i was in your shoes, you'd be the guy I'd probably turn for advice, so..
Just weigh the pros and cons of claiming and make a decision. mcmc's reaction to Ash's claim didnt read towny to me at all. I'm very much believing Ash at this point.
Look, I know what I know. I am not lying, I got a result that mcmc targeted nkirbit. Nkirbit died in the night. Mcmc has since claimed to not have targeted him at all, so there is no explanation other than he is caught scum.This is what it boils down to. It would take something like a cop result for me to believe mcmc over Ash at this point.
To me, no other town PRs should be claiming today.
Look, I know what I know. I am not lying, I got a result that mcmc targeted nkirbit. Nkirbit died in the night. Mcmc has since claimed to not have targeted him at all, so there is no explanation other than he is caught scum.This is what it boils down to. It would take something like a cop result for me to believe mcmc over Ash at this point.
To me, no other town PRs should be claiming today.
Uh, yeah, ash is definitely not lying. Fine to hammer mcmc at any point.
Good work ash, let's read back and look for mcmc partners during night.
When did youbsay that? Not wanting to be qhammered and asking for time to (to what, give us more reads??? After all. You told me you had nothing to add and would not counter claim....) Are not really the same thing. Maybe you meant that. I'll give you the benefit. But you should start talking if you're going to.Uh, yeah, ash is definitely not lying. Fine to hammer mcmc at any point.
Good work ash, let's read back and look for mcmc partners during night.
OMG cool you've heard enough just after I say I want some time.
Wow... a lot happened last night. so first of all Unvote. I'm willing to believe ash. Just one quick question: What is a bus driver? I can't seem to find that PR on mafiascum. I would be willing to hammer mcmc, if you guys think we have gotten enough of a response from him. Also, what does everyone think of waiting for mail-mi to respond before lynching? I'm fine with doing that as well, I think it would be good to get his input first.I'm not sure we will even hear from Mai again due to vla. I would like to hear yuma thoughts. But robz has already weighed in. Casting a vote for mc...
When did youbsay that? Not wanting to be qhammered and asking for time to (to what, give us more reads??? After all. You told me you had nothing to add and would not counter claim....) Are not really the same thing. Maybe you meant that. I'll give you the benefit. But you should start talking if you're going to.Uh, yeah, ash is definitely not lying. Fine to hammer mcmc at any point.
Good work ash, let's read back and look for mcmc partners during night.
OMG cool you've heard enough just after I say I want some time.
Alright, so hopefully ashersky is a mafia rolecop, and this is why he was smart enough to go for me, if not stupid town is stupid and screwed us bad.
I am a jailkeeper, I jailkept liopoil last night which means ash is scum because I 100% did not target nk. I can also explain why my claim is legitimate. I was not around for the end half of the day, then this went into night and I could pay more attention to my other games, I forgot about this game entirely. Luckily raere was kind enough to message me because she knew I was busy and make sure I remembered my action, still not having much time and not having read I jailkept my top scum read. Then this day starts and immediately people start talking about robz and his claim. My immediate reaction, ugh I should have jailkept him because A he can't be a potential pr I am blocking and B he is an IC. Now lets go with my scum read on liopoil, I do think that he could easily have not done the nk, so he could still be scum, and hes statement of robz is probably alive because we have a doctor read scummy to me. I thought he was breadcrumbing a doctor claim, which believe to be false because IC/doctor/jailkeeper is crazy strong. So I pushed really hard without explanation in hopes of drawing out his fake claim(I realized later doc wouldn't have been an unsafe claim because we don't know if it was jailkept or not so the plan was stupid) but anyhow it didn't work but I still found him scummy for the reasons I stated as well as the claim breadcrumbing.
BTW, bus driver is a role almost exclusively in bastard games it makes everyone target a different person, I doubt it exists in a normal game.
Also more unvotes should come, I want to hear more from robz than go ahead I have heard enough(before I said much of anything) and its 9 am, he will be up in about 5 hours
Also I think ashersky is so clearly scum and I think my case on him is good, I think it was good enough ashersky decided to in usual ashersky fasion die for his team I mean look at this, he has fake claimed(I know that) he will be lynched today or tomorow, I think he is a mafia rolecop and decided rather than getting caught and lynched(he was going to) he would die for his team and take out the jailkeeper. Even if we lynch ash, unless I jailkeep the scum doing the nk or am doctored I am dead, so he has helped his team the way he always wants to.
Alright, so hopefully ashersky is a mafia rolecop, and this is why he was smart enough to go for me, if not stupid town is stupid and screwed us bad.
I am a jailkeeper, I jailkept liopoil last night which means ash is scum because I 100% did not target nk. I can also explain why my claim is legitimate. I was not around for the end half of the day, then this went into night and I could pay more attention to my other games, I forgot about this game entirely. Luckily raere was kind enough to message me because she knew I was busy and make sure I remembered my action, still not having much time and not having read I jailkept my top scum read. Then this day starts and immediately people start talking about robz and his claim. My immediate reaction, ugh I should have jailkept him because A he can't be a potential pr I am blocking and B he is an IC. Now lets go with my scum read on liopoil, I do think that he could easily have not done the nk, so he could still be scum, and hes statement of robz is probably alive because we have a doctor read scummy to me. I thought he was breadcrumbing a doctor claim, which believe to be false because IC/doctor/jailkeeper is crazy strong. So I pushed really hard without explanation in hopes of drawing out his fake claim(I realized later doc wouldn't have been an unsafe claim because we don't know if it was jailkept or not so the plan was stupid) but anyhow it didn't work but I still found him scummy for the reasons I stated as well as the claim breadcrumbing.
This...this is all kinds of fail. You refused to claim, then came up with arguably the strongest town PR to use? You say you jailed lio, but if we look through all of D2, there's nothing there to make us think you had the knowledge that lio didn't do the kill, in fact you kept on tunneling...here's another instance of you really linking yourself with him. I really do find it a strong possibility that you two are partners.
Besides, IC+Tracker+? is more believable to me than IC+JK+? any day.
AND how does the JK NOT protect the IC???
Also I think ashersky is so clearly scum and I think my case on him is good, I think it was good enough ashersky decided to in usual ashersky fasion die for his team I mean look at this, he has fake claimed(I know that) he will be lynched today or tomorow, I think he is a mafia rolecop and decided rather than getting caught and lynched(he was going to) he would die for his team and take out the jailkeeper. Even if we lynch ash, unless I jailkeep the scum doing the nk or am doctored I am dead, so he has helped his team the way he always wants to.
What case is that, anyway? That you say I'm lying? Keep flailing, man.
Alright, so hopefully ashersky is a mafia rolecop, and this is why he was smart enough to go for me, if not stupid town is stupid and screwed us bad.
I am a jailkeeper, I jailkept liopoil last night which means ash is scum because I 100% did not target nk. I can also explain why my claim is legitimate. I was not around for the end half of the day, then this went into night and I could pay more attention to my other games, I forgot about this game entirely. Luckily raere was kind enough to message me because she knew I was busy and make sure I remembered my action, still not having much time and not having read I jailkept my top scum read. Then this day starts and immediately people start talking about robz and his claim. My immediate reaction, ugh I should have jailkept him because A he can't be a potential pr I am blocking and B he is an IC. Now lets go with my scum read on liopoil, I do think that he could easily have not done the nk, so he could still be scum, and hes statement of robz is probably alive because we have a doctor read scummy to me. I thought he was breadcrumbing a doctor claim, which believe to be false because IC/doctor/jailkeeper is crazy strong. So I pushed really hard without explanation in hopes of drawing out his fake claim(I realized later doc wouldn't have been an unsafe claim because we don't know if it was jailkept or not so the plan was stupid) but anyhow it didn't work but I still found him scummy for the reasons I stated as well as the claim breadcrumbing.
This...this is all kinds of fail. You refused to claim, then came up with arguably the strongest town PR to use? You say you jailed lio, but if we look through all of D2, there's nothing there to make us think you had the knowledge that lio didn't do the kill, in fact you kept on tunneling...here's another instance of you really linking yourself with him. I really do find it a strong possibility that you two are partners.
Besides, IC+Tracker+? is more believable to me than IC+JK+? any day.
AND how does the JK NOT protect the IC???
CAUSE I DIDNT KNOW THE IC EXISTED!
Also I think ashersky is so clearly scum and I think my case on him is good, I think it was good enough ashersky decided to in usual ashersky fasion die for his team I mean look at this, he has fake claimed(I know that) he will be lynched today or tomorow, I think he is a mafia rolecop and decided rather than getting caught and lynched(he was going to) he would die for his team and take out the jailkeeper. Even if we lynch ash, unless I jailkeep the scum doing the nk or am doctored I am dead, so he has helped his team the way he always wants to.
What case is that, anyway? That you say I'm lying? Keep flailing, man.
Ash saying me and youliopoil are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and youliopoil is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if youliopoil are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.
Man, who does this? "I know! I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both! That'll work awesomely!"
You honestly see scum!ash doing that? Am I not a vet to you? Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum? That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.
Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.
I think the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!
All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)
All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)
How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?
Woah yuma, thats not what I said. I said ashersky was in an advantageous position because if liopoil is scum it's a 1town(me) for 1scum(lio) which is normally good for town but take into account the likelyhood that just liopoil gets lynched(1scum) and 1 for 1 is better OR liopoil is town and then ash is just setting up two town lynches, saying we are scum together I guarantee he still thinks one of us is scum if the other flips town. And I viewed this from town!ash and scum!ash perspective, scum!ash is the one who benefits most from me and liopoil's lynch so I think ash is scum regardless of liopoil's alignment. If people wanted to lynch ash I would do that, hence him bieng a scum read of mine.
I'm here, dunno what to say, I gave reads, I have yet to reread the people I said I would, I'll do that during class breaks.
I am right there with you on not doing the reread I said I would, but mostly I just feel like we needed a jump start. So I don't know if there is anything specific that I want from you... or from anybody (well I would like participation as a starter from some people) but would you agree that we somehow hit a wall? How do you think we fix that and get moving? Cause sitting back and doing nothing is a horrible option.
I agree, okay, town lets go we are screwing ourselves. Everyone respond to how they feel ashersky has played. I think he is very hard to read and is often times all over the place, but one thing that I always notice, he is a huuuuuuge poster/contributor/stimulator. Lately hes just blah, I think it' because when he does contribute huge amounts, he is also usually a big lynch target, however he has said many times he is happy to be lynched if it leads to a town victory. I don't see that here. He sounded quite strong in his read on me but I don't think he is pushing it as hard as typical town!ash. Anyone else think hes playing differently?
Sorry if I wasn't clear ash, I don't think your scummy for not self-voting or dying for town. I think your scummy because your not as loud as I expect you to be. Self voting, and offering to be lynched I don't expect, but cases to back up your reads, lots of reads, challenging people on game theory, coming up with ideas, making people believe what you believe, are all things I expect from town!ash. All I see is ash who thinks I'm scum but doesn't push it or anything very hard. Not offering to be lynched and not wanting to stand out are two different things.
Alright, so hopefully ashersky is a mafia rolecop, and this is why he was smart enough to go for me, if not stupid town is stupid and screwed us bad.
I am a jailkeeper, I jailkept liopoil last night which means ash is scum because I 100% did not target nk. I can also explain why my claim is legitimate. I was not around for the end half of the day, then this went into night and I could pay more attention to my other games, I forgot about this game entirely. Luckily raere was kind enough to message me because she knew I was busy and make sure I remembered my action, still not having much time and not having read I jailkept my top scum read. Then this day starts and immediately people start talking about robz and his claim. My immediate reaction, ugh I should have jailkept him because A he can't be a potential pr I am blocking and B he is an IC. Now lets go with my scum read on liopoil, I do think that he could easily have not done the nk, so he could still be scum, and hes statement of robz is probably alive because we have a doctor read scummy to me. I thought he was breadcrumbing a doctor claim, which believe to be false because IC/doctor/jailkeeper is crazy strong. So I pushed really hard without explanation in hopes of drawing out his fake claim(I realized later doc wouldn't have been an unsafe claim because we don't know if it was jailkept or not so the plan was stupid) but anyhow it didn't work but I still found him scummy for the reasons I stated as well as the claim breadcrumbing.
This...this is all kinds of fail. You refused to claim, then came up with arguably the strongest town PR to use? You say you jailed lio, but if we look through all of D2, there's nothing there to make us think you had the knowledge that lio didn't do the kill, in fact you kept on tunneling...here's another instance of you really linking yourself with him. I really do find it a strong possibility that you two are partners.
Besides, IC+Tracker+? is more believable to me than IC+JK+? any day.
AND how does the JK NOT protect the IC???
CAUSE I DIDNT KNOW THE IC EXISTED!
Which I don't believe, nor do others. If that was true, and your claim was true, then dude, you SCREWED us. That would be up there with worst town play ever. Like vigging the IC bad.
Also, nice not actually responding to the giant holes in your claim.
I would like everyone to post a Believe: ash/mcmc, doesn't have to be right now, but I want to know where everyone stands.
Believe: ashersky.
I see no reason why scum-ashersky would claim like that.
well then for now I guess I'll keep my mouth shut. Maybe I'll reconsider when I get home from work ~ 10 hours. That will give me a bit more time to think it through and not be in such a rush when I try and make a decision...
I would like everyone to post a Believe: ash/mcmc, doesn't have to be right now, but I want to know where everyone stands.
Believe: ashersky.
I see no reason why scum-ashersky would claim like that.
There was something rubbing me the wrong way about liopoil and now I see it: that level of confidence on mail-mi being town just seems scummy to me, as I really really don't see any base for it. Could be scum "stuck" in a read they had to fake for future wagon analysis reasons?Okay so here you point out some scummy things liopoil was doing, I agree with it.
Maybe too late for that today, but if I don't wake up tomorrow, please remember this!
You still think liopoil is scummy but theres not enough time to start it, reasonable.I think mail-mi is town for similar reasons that you think robz is town. This is really just ordinary mail-mi play, which he has been misslynched for before.I would nominate you (as I disagree with that notion), but no, it's starting to be pretty late for that. Sliding into a nolynch would just suck so bad.
is it possible that anyone besides robz or mail-mi mightbe lynched today?
Alleviated a bit by ash's second post on the matter, although I'm just now realizing I'm way way too eager to give towncred for people for agreeing with me. Actually there might be something there. This is starting to remind me of mafia noir ashersky with our totally unreasonable day 1 arguments I later forgot to town's demise. I'll pull up some quotes when I get to my computer after my weekly floorball thing (so later tonight).So now you think ash is scummy, and point out to towns demise you forgot this in a past game(are you doing it now) Also want to point out, I am glad you understood robz was town, I do not find you scummy for that at all as I also knew robz was town, it was obvious and I agree it was wierd of yuma to not feel the same way.
Really freaking glad I was right about robz and also that we have an interested town robz to work with now. This is just great. m
Here's a big case you make on ash, I am bringing it up because I think it is validWhy am I scummy for crazy defending Robz? Once again I think we area heading to a mislynch, I'm doing my best to not have that happen. Ashersky you really should know this isn't how Robz acts as scum!
Why is "my" case on mail-mi odd? Should I repeat it? How about the 5 other voters, all scummy or just me?
Overuse of AtE? Hmm, I don't know, I'm starting to be pretty emotionally invested in getting people to trust me about Robz.
It's scummy in a few ways. You know you just ripped liopoil for his confidence that mail-mi is scum? Yeah, that's you and Robz. SAME THING.
It's scummy if you know he's town and you're doing this for town!cred as scum.
It's scummy if you derail the viable lynch and we hit deadline without a lynch.
Your case on mail-mi is odd because IT IS THE SAME AS THE CASE ON ROBZ and you are saying the two exact cases have different outcomes, when I'm saying it's just as likely they are both scum as it is that they aren't. You've turned this into a Morgrim defense: basically, if Morgrim derphammered, he'd just get a "oh well, that's Morgrim!" but others would get grilled. Now it's Robz being super scummy and you've giving him the "oh well, that's Robz!" instead of looking at it clearly.
You keep saying "man ash you should KNOW that Robz is town because COME ON you've played a million games with him too and should KNOW." That's an AtE for sure.I don't want to turn the spotlight of attention to me and ashersky disagreeing (again :)). We've derailed these threads (when both being town too!) often enough for me to know better by now.<
I can talk about it and feel rather strongly about my side, but somehow I think we won't agree even if we spend 3 pages arguing..
I guess I'm coming across wrong. I can understand where you are coming from. That's why I've said my heart yearns for Robz to be town. But my brain can't ignore the signs that Robz is scummy. You and I agree that scummy =/= mafia, but man, it's D1 (productive one at that!) and there's not a lot to go on.
I've mentioned that I think there are cases on both Robz and mail-mi. I don't expect to convince you on Robz, and I think you won't convince me that Robz is obvtown. And really, I'm okay with the mail-mi lynch. So I don't know why we're arguing.
If mail-mi is lynched and town though, man you are getting a lot of attention on D2.
Robz, do you think these posts are a contradiction? Do you remember what ashersky was like d1 of Mafia Noir?
Ashersky's analysis seems towny this far. I hate cases like this, but I'm getting a weird vibe from liopoil's tone. I'm on mobile and cant quote the relevant posts today, but his posts look like they could have been pre-planned (in a scum qt).Again you find liopoil scummy but your read changes on ash because of analysis(something I think ash could do as scum or town). I agreed liopoil was acting scummy. But your reason here is a weird vibe, that not easy to support but can be a strong read. Later when I make my case you say I feel too strong in my read for the legitimacy of my case, I think this is part of it, my scum read came from some things that are hard to explain as well as some things I couldn't say.
Mods, were nkirbit and sudgy VT's, or do we not know?
So here is question number 1, liopoil answered after, I was on liopoil before robz claimed. My case on liopoil has been based on scrictly the way liopoil was acting in which I felt he was setting up multiple lynches with his "lets lynch this guy but be careful of mcmc" post. As well as some reads based on playing with liopoil as scum. And then of course his claim that he though robz was probably doctored made me find him scummy because knowing I am JK, I doubt we have a IC/JK/Doc and I thought he might be breadcrumbing for a future fake claim.(something I believed scum would do, and they did, I was just wrong on who was breadcrumbing lol)also, a mistake we've made in previous games is to only look at interactions from the current day, and forget about what happened previously. bad idea! that makes all the days essentially D1. So, let's re-read! I did some reading of over the night because I wasn't in pirates, but I need to do some more.This is so true, but I haven't even been able to follow this day.. I'll be spending 5 hours on a bus on saturday, planning on rereading day 1 then!
Mcmc, can you explain how you can call your lio-case great if you didn't even know Robz is an IC? I mean that was a HUGE new piece of information.. How did the timeline go here, exactly?
Mcmc, I think you are GREATLY exaggareting how solid your liopoil-case is. It's not like the case you built on me in pirates, as I don't think it's as much you inventing things, but you are clearly choosing to interpret everything in a way that suits your case. Dude, most of what you find super damning hinges on you calling the entire scum team (if there even are 3 scum, could be 2+sk or something really) early day 2. Don't you see how ridiculous that is? No one in our history of 50 games has been able to do that yet, and you are pretty much using "this would imo make sense" as a justification. I obviously have the luxury of knowing you are wrong as I know my own alignment, but I think you are suffering from a bad case of tunnel vision and I don't know why. Last time I thought you were super unreasonable you were scum building a fake case on me.Here's the next question I have no idea how I missed it and I'm sorry. Really I don't know how to answer this, I mean like I said, I don't remember where I said liopoil had to be scum with other people, I think my case has always been that liopoil has been scummy for multiple reasons and I may have then taken the next step to look at who he might be partners with. Also after rereading you, I think you are very likely town so I still think liopoil is scum if you are town. I will go look back to find where people got this idea that I was claiming scum teams with certainty. Also I believe I have answerd why my case is not as strong as my read.
Hypotethical question: If you magically had mod confirmation I'm town, would that change your certainty about lio?
woah there. That was hardly a case on you, in fact, I didn't say any of my reasons for being suspicious of you there. you aren't even my top choice for a lynch right now, robz is. I'm not sure what you're reacting to there, but I'll explain why I'm suspicious of you:
- A likely choice to be chosen for a scum partner
-Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sensesounds like you know SB is town, like I've said
- completely missunderstands/missinterprets/twists MGP's post
- Votes SB for not doing something which mcmc believes to be pro-town, and SB doesn't. I disagree that this makes him scummy and so doesn't need a vote.
So of course it isn't much, D1 cases never are. But this is far more solid than some of the other things so far, like the stuff on SB/MGP
I am responding to the fact that you made a statement that seemed fishy to me, the whole I'll vote robz but lets look at mcmc later is such a scum tactic. It's what you do when you know robz lynch is a good mislynch and you want to set up another one tomorrow on me. It is a tactic I have used as scum before. Also you previously said thismcmcsalot: One of the more likely to be chosen to be a scumbuddy, but hasn't been mentioned as much as Eevee or me, making it seem even more likely that he was chosen.Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes senseQuoted this before for sounding like he knows spiritbears is town, and quoting it again. Interaction with spiritbears in general seems off.
scummy to towny:
mcmc
robz
sudgy
eevee
mail-mi
MGP
yuma
spiritbears
ashersky
Ahoppy
nkirbit
liopoil
So previously I was your top choice for a lynch.
As far as your reasons, my post to spirit was an attempt to explain to him why h should answer the question. I think a typical town issue is "I know I'm town I don't need to go out of my way to do townie things" so I was saying to him even though he knows he is town(if he is) he still needs to convince everyone else he is town. Next I still stand by there is never a point where an anti town lynch is good, is it better than a random lynch yes I understand that but we should never random lynch and MGP voted based off this "its better than a random lynch" idea. Which is ridiculous because if you find noone scummy don't vote its not like he was at deadline and said oh well this is the best because noone is scummy, he just made the attempt to start a wagon on someone quite early because "its better than random". So you claiming I have not just misunderstood but twisted his post is complete crap. Lastly my vote on sb was out of compounding frustration from multiple games and irl stuff which I took a break and came back and unvoted.
Vote: liopoil
I have played with him as scum, this is scum liopoil I'm sure of it.
This is my case on liopoil, the cases on robz and mail are weak, I know my case on liopoil is also weak but I like it better. It just somewhat of gut feelings based on all there's previous play.
my reasons are that you are playing a scummy game the way you did with me. setting up lynches keeping yourself safe while pushing(no strong reasons for your suspicion, not following up hard) and moving your read on robz quite a bit in an inconsistent way.
Really guys, robz is town, eevee is right 100% about him. I have heard him talk about ds9 and samurai's in which he was NOT happy with his partners D1 play, also I don't even think he's being crazy scummy, crazy but not scummy. Lastly so he's not helpful at scum hunting D1, very few are, most of the newbie blame it on not being used to bigger games early on, I use the I'm terrible as town excuse, many of us are terrible unhelpful scum hunters d1. Some games were great. Robz just doesn't care to make an excuse because excuses get you lynched(bad for town) being outlandish and creating reaction(good for town) so ugh, don't lynch him.
Next OMG liopoil is scum...Eevee, if you don't like the robz lynch, join the sudgy one! I think it has a better chance of going through than the mail-mi one. Also, I will hammer robz if it gets to the point where if I don't you will lynch mail-mi instead.gah, sudgy lynch isn't gonna happen. I'd really rather not lynch robz or mail-mi, so I'm not sure what to do...
So he says I'm his top scum read, say he put robz too high, then votes for robz, says I'm not his top scum read, then votes for sudgy says he will only vote for robz if mail-is the other lynch, now doesn't want to lynch either. All of this as we get closer to deadline. You know what scum likes to do D1 make sure there no good information, you know what he's doing dragging the day on pushing different wagons when one gets close(robz wagon got close he swapped, mail-mi is close he will vote robz to stop it, they are both close he will vote neither) watch him make a case on me as soon as sudgy gets close.
Wow. The one time I have a late night and am unable to be online the thread absolutely explodes.
I see ash's claim and I am in a dilemma. Ugh... I have a piece of knowledge that I think makes ash's claim less likely to be true, but doesn't guarantee that it isn't and I don't know if I should reveal it or not.
I mean just typing this out implies that I have something worth revealing and is dangerous so maybe I should go ahead and say it, but at this juncture I am not so sure what to do. Give me a bit to think about it--weigh in if you want... although generally there is no one online when I am post this early in the morning.
Look, I know what I know. I am not lying, I got a result that mcmc targeted nkirbit. Nkirbit died in the night. Mcmc has since claimed to not have targeted him at all, so there is no explanation other than he is caught scum.This is what it boils down to. It would take something like a cop result for me to believe mcmc over Ash at this point.
To me, no other town PRs should be claiming today.
Really, just because he claims he is automatically believed. That is stuuupid.
Okay, here is my first mention of a scum team. I really did a trrible job of explaining anything here, I baisically saw some connection between the two and posted hey they could be scum together.Yet another unpressured town claim :P
Eevee/liopoil scum team, I think so. I had suspicions of eevee that were put out if mind because he responded well. But scum can respond very well and townie when given the chance. The fact that I had suspicions in the first place still hold true.
Out of these two I would very much like to lynch liopoil first.
Okay how about this, eevee/liopoil/spiritbears. Eevee is the most popular pick(makes sense to be picked and fills vet requirement many people mentioned) liopoil also highly popular pick(fits nicely in the middle of vet and newbie) spirit I have already said he makes an easily defendable partner due to his past of being a confuse townie(fills in the newbie scum pick)Then I name a whole team, again really weak reads on eevee and spiritbears, but I was posting this because I didn't feel there was more to say on my liopoil case so I was looking at other things. Also check the time stamps, next couple posts people rightfully say what are you doing mcmc you are calling scum teams and saying nothing and being useless. My next post is this.
In that team composition(vet/middle/newbie) I would expect to see the vet take a laid back passive approach, the middle to take and aggressive approach, and the newbie to try to look like town.
Also liopoil has been buddying eevee a lot, I don't remember town!liopoil buddying many people(full disclosure I can't remember scum!liopoil doing it either)
Lastly someone said spirit seemed like town because he was playing similarly, but I find him slightly scummy for pushing robz pretty hard, I know I missed some stuff but if I remember correctly spiritbears pushed the robz lynch quite a bit, that fits something a newbie scum player would do.
your all wrong on me entirely, sorry im not paying attention my freaking basement is flooded because I lost power due to the thunderstorm that came with the tornado that hit last yesterday. When your power goes out your sub pump stops working and when that happens your basement floods so you want me to /out I will(i'll be pissed because I actually think I'm right) I'll make my case "pretty" and more fact based when I can reread I'm trying to stay a part of the conversation in the meantime(even when its just repeating what i've said)So yes, I wasn't explaining anything well, I was trying to stay relevant and updated without really being able too, that was bad on my part but we have had way to many people not participating while things are happening and too many people analyzing things later, I think this is giving scum the ability to take more informed stances because very few people are every actively posting at once. But anyway yes all my scum team mentions were not supported and not really strong stances.
QuoteOkay, this was a huge post by me, where I found more eevee/liopoil connections, though I also found a mgp/liopoil connection and didn't find much connecting spiritbears. At this point I was again pretty confident liopoil is scum and looking for people he could be scum with, not at all saying this is the scum team or that liopoil being scum relies on the others being scum. You see this is what I was doing before without supporting, in my big post I just see a couple connection, because I felt there wasn't much more to be said about my liopoil case but I wanted to still be doing things. My reads on eevee and spirit and mgp were all weak and simply speculation.
Robz halp...am I an idiot, is Liopoil town and xeiron/ashersky are taking advantage of the situation as scum, or am I right and scum is just not letting the case gain any gound. The longer this game goes on my read gets weaker and weaker.
I don't understand your question. Xeiron agrees with you and is voting liopoil. I think you are scum, very possibly with liopoil. I'd say there are others that are not letting the case gain ground.
Wow no offense man but you really need to read my posts through(I don't think I'm that confusing) you always seem to not understand my questions/statement. So let me say it slow
I know I am town
I know I made a case on Liopoil
I do not know liopoil's alignment
Day 1 I got very little support for my liopoil case
Day 2 It's gotten more attention
You claim me and liopoil could both be scum
Xeiron agrees with me that liopoil is scum
So I see two options
Liopoil is scum, xieron agrees with me(bussing or town doesn't matter), you agree liopoil is scum(incorrectly guessing my alignment)
or
Liopoil is town, Xeiron is scum who sees an opportunity to push a mislynch through, you are scum trying to get two townies lynched because you see the opportunity.
So I asked robz, is my case on liopoil good, or are xeiron and ashersky scum trying to take advantage of the interaction going on.
Really, robz sorry I am frustrated because you say ashersky is not to be believed automatically, but that what he says is more plauisible. Why I mean I just posted a whole lot and noone has said anything about it, you say you still believe ash, because its the obvious choice, but you don't adress why his claim makes sense and mine doesn't. He hasn't said why he targeted me, he hasn't given any reason why I am scummy other than his result. I have made huuge cases on him. So sorry I just don't get it.Look, I know what I know. I am not lying, I got a result that mcmc targeted nkirbit. Nkirbit died in the night. Mcmc has since claimed to not have targeted him at all, so there is no explanation other than he is caught scum.This is what it boils down to. It would take something like a cop result for me to believe mcmc over Ash at this point.
To me, no other town PRs should be claiming today.
Really, just because he claims he is automatically believed. That is stuuupid.
This is ridiculous. Ash is not automatically believed, he is believed because what he is saying is much, much more plausible than what you are saying. Getting angry doesn't make you look any better, by the way. I am really on guard about feigned outrage.
All that said, I do think there is a non-negligible chance that what we are seeing is masterful scum play from ashersky and careless, destructive town play from mcmc. Remember in Mafia XXIII, the fake claim was the polished, rehearsed, plausible one, and the true claim was the last minute counterclaim.
I even think there's some chance they are both scum and this is a ploy.
But.. well, I can't see myself banking on those alternatives, rather than the more obvious one. Just thought I'd mention them in case I die tonight.
You, by extension, didn't know I was IC? Jailed the wrong person? Said you wouldn't claim, and then did? These are all marks against you.I didn't know you were ic because I was waaaay behind. Jailed the wrong person...your alive arent you, so how is who I jailed the "wrong person". Do you think I should have immediately claims jk, because to me that's a horrible outing of our strongest pr. Now do you think I should have not claimed and let you guys lynch the jk without saying anything, I think that's horrible. So tell me what else should I have done to make my goddamn claim more believable. Oh I know I could have been scum and planned it out.
Also think of this, if I'm scum, why didn't I claim something that fit with ash's I mean read the scum qt with me and liopoil and our discussion of fake claiming, remember ds9 where I claimed my real role. Remember the end of pirates when I talk about fake claiming there, I do not fake claim.This is the one thing that really gives me pause. I've never seen you fakeclaim (I think), and it goes against whst I know of your play. But your back is really ho against the grindstone here... First time for everything? Also the anger is a new thing I think. I'm not sure I've ever seen you this pissed. Like I said...take a breath, and lets see what yuma says. We still have plenty of time....
Going back to my claim, why not claim rolecop or roleblocker and claim to have targeted as ash said. Why didn't eevee counterclaim cop, because as a town pr you are caught with your pants down when someone fake claims against you.
Also think of this, if I'm scum, why didn't I claim something that fit with ash's I mean read the scum qt with me and liopoil and our discussion of fake claiming, remember ds9 where I claimed my real role. Remember the end of pirates when I talk about fake claiming there, I do not fake claim.This is the one thing that really gives me pause. I've never seen you fakeclaim (I think), and it goes against whst I know of your play. But your back is really ho against the grindstone here... First time for everything? Also the anger is a new thing I think. I'm not sure I've ever seen you this pissed. Like I said...take a breath, and lets see what yuma says. We still have plenty of time....
Going back to my claim, why not claim rolecop or roleblocker and claim to have targeted as ash said. Why didn't eevee counterclaim cop, because as a town pr you are caught with your pants down when someone fake claims against you.
unvote whoa whoa whoa wasnt it Asher who said in the speccy of pirates 2: "I believe Eevee because the second claimant has never been scum in the history of f.ds." Or something like that?
Vote Count 2.8I'm voting ashersky. If not vote: ashersky
mcmcsalot (3): ashersky, xeiron, Robz888
liopoil (1): mcmcsalot
xeiron (1): yuma
Not voting: Eevee, AHoppy, liopoil, spiritbears, mail-mi
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Saturday, June 8th
Alright, so hopefully ashersky is a mafia rolecop, and this is why he was smart enough to go for me, if not stupid town is stupid and screwed us bad.
I am a jailkeeper, I jailkept liopoil last night which means ash is scum because I 100% did not target nk. I can also explain why my claim is legitimate. I was not around for the end half of the day, then this went into night and I could pay more attention to my other games, I forgot about this game entirely. Luckily raere was kind enough to message me because she knew I was busy and make sure I remembered my action, still not having much time and not having read I jailkept my top scum read. Then this day starts and immediately people start talking about robz and his claim. My immediate reaction, ugh I should have jailkept him because A he can't be a potential pr I am blocking and B he is an IC. Now lets go with my scum read on liopoil, I do think that he could easily have not done the nk, so he could still be scum, and hes statement of robz is probably alive because we have a doctor read scummy to me. I thought he was breadcrumbing a doctor claim, which believe to be false because IC/doctor/jailkeeper is crazy strong. So I pushed really hard without explanation in hopes of drawing out his fake claim(I realized later doc wouldn't have been an unsafe claim because we don't know if it was jailkept or not so the plan was stupid) but anyhow it didn't work but I still found him scummy for the reasons I stated as well as the claim breadcrumbing.
This...this is all kinds of fail. You refused to claim, then came up with arguably the strongest town PR to use? You say you jailed lio, but if we look through all of D2, there's nothing there to make us think you had the knowledge that lio didn't do the kill, in fact you kept on tunneling...here's another instance of you really linking yourself with him. I really do find it a strong possibility that you two are partners.
Besides, IC+Tracker+? is more believable to me than IC+JK+? any day.
AND how does the JK NOT protect the IC???
CAUSE I DIDNT KNOW THE IC EXISTED!
Which I don't believe, nor do others. If that was true, and your claim was true, then dude, you SCREWED us. That would be up there with worst town play ever. Like vigging the IC bad.
Also, nice not actually responding to the giant holes in your claim.
Cool, your nice and fun to play with, I guess angering people is a legitimate scum tactic, one I know you are employing but its totally not fun. I mean, hes still alive isn't he, its actually very likely scum don't shoot the ic night one in a closed setup for fear of the night kill being blocked. So it's not that terrible play, terrible play was not ever posting in a blitz game when my scum partner died. I was very busy during that time and didn't read so apologies again. But really I don't think it's terrible, and i know I'm not the best town player but I think I have done a fucking good job here finding out you were scum and I think liopoil might still be scum too. SO if you are just going to be an asshole I'm done talking to you, I will continue to adress the rest of town and argue my side so we can get you lynched and make the right choice for town. If I get lynched I hope town takes my reads to heart, you will be lynched tomorow so it doesn't matter me arguing with you more, just going to keep pissing me off which is clearly what you want so you can just scream obvi!scum flail with no backup.
Well, them both being town might actually be a legitimate explanation for all this absurdity.
Actually... yeah. Huh. That might be it.
Look I could go back to a Mai lynch. No problem. But I do believe ash. If that's true, and if ash is right, MC cAN't be be town....he targeted nk. Leaving him around means another death tonight. If ash is right. Only one claim can be right. They both can't be town. I guess my question is for you robzz. How do you read your brothers anger? Was it real or feigned? And Yuma. Hurry up.
Bus drivers mess with results, right? Assuming we are both town for a minute, who's flip helps us more?
Mcmc flips town, confirms a bus driver.
Ash flips town, doesn't confirm whether mcmc was bus driven or lying scum.
I still think mcmc is the right lynch.
Going for someone other than us both is an option, but is it smart? Is there a consensus scummy selection? I feel like that's what happened in Pirates on the last day.
I don't see how that's possible if Ash saw you target nk....I don't really understand this busdriver thing you keep pushing, but I don't see how that could have changed whst ash saw. If I believe ash I have to believe you're scum.Look I could go back to a Mai lynch. No problem. But I do believe ash. If that's true, and if ash is right, MC cAN't be be town....he targeted nk. Leaving him around means another death tonight. If ash is right. Only one claim can be right. They both can't be town. I guess my question is for you robzz. How do you read your brothers anger? Was it real or feigned? And Yuma. Hurry up.
Why does this keep being said this way? Am I just not understanding how things work?
Correct me if I am wrong but this is all that is true:
I could not have been bus driven as town because nk would not have died.
Ash could have been bus driven and got the result of someone else targeting nk.
3 possibilites are:
I could be town and ash scum
I could be scum and ash town
I could be town and ash could be busdriven town
I don't see how that's possible if Ash saw you target nk....I don't really understand this busdriver thing you keep pushing, but I don't see how that could have changed whst ash saw. If I believe ash I have to believe you're scum.Look I could go back to a Mai lynch. No problem. But I do believe ash. If that's true, and if ash is right, MC cAN't be be town....he targeted nk. Leaving him around means another death tonight. If ash is right. Only one claim can be right. They both can't be town. I guess my question is for you robzz. How do you read your brothers anger? Was it real or feigned? And Yuma. Hurry up.
Why does this keep being said this way? Am I just not understanding how things work?
Correct me if I am wrong but this is all that is true:
I could not have been bus driven as town because nk would not have died.
Ash could have been bus driven and got the result of someone else targeting nk.
3 possibilites are:
I could be town and ash scum
I could be scum and ash town
I could be town and ash could be busdriven town
I think mcmc is wrong on bus driver, but maybe I am. My understanding is bus driver chooses two targets and they are switched.
For example, ScumA and mcmc are bus driven by whoever. Now, when mcmc is targeted by someone (me), everything I see is actually from ScumA, but I think it is mcmc. If I had tracked ScumA, I would have seen whatever mcmc did. That's how a bus driver could be responsible for this.
Where mcmc is misleading here is saying that if I was bus driven, he'd be clear. Bus driving affects what happens to targets, not to action takers. Me being bus driven still means mcmc is scum, because I tracked him target nkirbit.
Mcmc flips town, confirms a bus driver.Bolded statement is false:
Ash flips town, doesn't confirm whether mcmc was bus driven or lying scum.
Well I think bringing busdriving into it just needlessly complicates it. Seems more bastsrdly than regular. So I am going to choose not to believe it.I agree with this. I've actually found myself nodding in approval to a bunch of spiritbears posts lately.
And without Yuma stepping up and sharing anything new, I'm probably just going to vote mc. Sorry for to go with my gut. But if mc flips town, I'm not going to believe and busdriving be and will take it to mean ash played us. Hey. Btw does mai's vla end before the new deadline?
The fact that you are continually making statements that are self serving and making you "look townie" and me "look scummy" is such proof you are scum I cannot believe this town is having a hard time figuring out who to lynch.
I find people thinking bus driver is a likely explanation EXTREMELY weird. I guess it's possible, yeah. But there is no way that narrative is more likely than either mcmc or ash being scum and lying. So, I think definitely lynching one of the two is best. I think one of them is scum something like 95% of the time, for the busdriver thing to be true, SO many variables need to go just right. Either of the two lying is just WAY simpler, way more likely.
As to whom I believe, it's still very muchly ashersky. I initially believed ashersky, their fight didn't change anything to me (and it didn't look very alignment-based anyways, just two heavily invested players getting a little too serious), I think ashersky's point of both JK+IC being in the same game being unlikely is actually very damning for mcmc and really, ashersky came out unclaimed, this is not a situation of a counterclaim as mcmc needed to claim something to not be lynched. Yeah, I think most everything points to ashersky being truthful and mcmc is greatly exaggerating the quotes he pulled up to prove his towniness. And I tend to have a HUGE bias for people who say I seem towny, but the facts are so convincing to me I STILL suspect mcmc way more. I'd estimate mcmc is scum 70%, ashersky is scum 25% and both are town 5%.
Vote: mcmc, unless yuma's info is something dramatic, I don't see this changing for me.
Okay that's L-1, so better stop voting until yuma gets here.Yes I realize that, but I'm beginning to think Yuma has no intention of posting prior to the lynch
Okay that's L-1, so better stop voting until yuma gets here.Yes I realize that, but I'm beginning to think Yuma has no intention of posting prior to the lynch
Oh yuma isn't the kind of guy to do something like that! People don't have access all the time! (Eevee of late would know..)Okay that's L-1, so better stop voting until yuma gets here.Yes I realize that, but I'm beginning to think Yuma has no intention of posting prior to the lynch
Right on time!Okay that's L-1, so better stop voting until yuma gets here.Yes I realize that, but I'm beginning to think Yuma has no intention of posting prior to the lynch
Ha! You have so little faith in me?
Wait yuma, why on earth would you not tell us what you learnt night 1? I see absolutely no benefit in that, you could very well die tonight now that you've claimed!
Okay. Just that literally any result you got would be new information for town, and potentially taking that information to your grave seems weird to me. But I don't mean to pry, I trust your judgement.Wait yuma, why on earth would you not tell us what you learnt night 1? I see absolutely no benefit in that, you could very well die tonight now that you've claimed!
who said I saw anything? Maybe I did, maybe I didn't... I am not telling at this point.
And Yuma, now that it looks like xerion is unfeasible, any thought to changing your vote or are you just going to jeep it there?
1For ash to be scum, he'd have to planned the claim from the day start (the breadcrumbs, his play that's consistent with the result), 2he'd have to be exactly a scum rolecop that targeted you day 1 and decided to go after a strong power role, a role that I btw think is unlikely to exist in a game with an IC. 3For you to be scum ash needs to be a tracker (makes sense with an ic) 4that tracked you (his reasons make sense) 5and you to be the mafia goon that made the kill. It basically comes down to this: 6Ash decided to come out, with a claim that makes 100% sense. His play fits his claim 100%, the narrative makes perfect sense. 7You needed to claim something as ash had already caught you, 8I think the unpressured vs pressured thing already makes a big difference in likelihood + all the other factors. 9Really, the only thing that points towards you being town is being upset (that has historically been a town trait here), but you are aware of that so you could have faked that / you could have been scum that got pissed.
I really am sorry you're frustrated mc. I wish you weren't. But I'm afraid I can't help that any...except to maybe move this along a little quicker
vote:mcmcsalot
Galz did 28 angry posts and lots of legwork as well. I don't know, to me your behavior just fits a scrambling caught scum trying all the tricks he can think of to avoid getting lynched.Yes. This is how I see it too
Ash just deciding to go for an out of the blue fakeclaim is just less likely than you being scum, that's the way I see it. I know I won't convince you of this, and everyone else seems to already agree with me, so..
Galz did 28 angry posts and lots of legwork as well. I don't know, to me your behavior just fits a scrambling caught scum trying all the tricks he can think of to avoid getting lynched.
Ash just deciding to go for an out of the blue fakeclaim is just less likely than you being scum, that's the way I see it. I know I won't convince you of this, and everyone else seems to already agree with me, so..
No worries. I'm glad you're not throwing things at your monitor right now!!I really am sorry you're frustrated mc. I wish you weren't. But I'm afraid I can't help that any...except to maybe move this along a little quicker
vote:mcmcsalot
Oh don't worry its not a "grr I'm frustrated" way its in a "egads! this game is so tricky and difficult" way, all smiles on this end(apologies if it doesn't sound like it)
Well I know that eas directed at eevee. But it could be directed st me too..
For starters. I have read ash as townie all game. His claim (and your counter) did nothing to dissuade me.
Mcmc, how dangerous is a scum fake claim without knowing any PRs? You know this. It is very.
How much easier is it to fake after roles are known? Much.
As for Yuma...I think if its true, it makes the bus driver theory more likely, but the JK claim EVEN more fake.
Mcmc is lying scum, we can decide on Yuma tomorrow, mostly because mcmc's flip will confirm me for the doubters.
I've dont think I ever had a solid read on ash before his claim. I've noticed some scummy things about his play but conversely some towny things as well. There wasnt anything nearly as concrete as the claims to analyze before! Soundi a bit like you are frustrated your good play earlier isnt rewarded now.
So I reread eevee, found so much helpfull info.There was something rubbing me the wrong way about liopoil and now I see it: that level of confidence on mail-mi being town just seems scummy to me, as I really really don't see any base for it. Could be scum "stuck" in a read they had to fake for future wagon analysis reasons?Okay so here you point out some scummy things liopoil was doing, I agree with it.
Maybe too late for that today, but if I don't wake up tomorrow, please remember this!You still think liopoil is scummy but theres not enough time to start it, reasonable.I think mail-mi is town for similar reasons that you think robz is town. This is really just ordinary mail-mi play, which he has been misslynched for before.I would nominate you (as I disagree with that notion), but no, it's starting to be pretty late for that. Sliding into a nolynch would just suck so bad.
is it possible that anyone besides robz or mail-mi mightbe lynched today?Alleviated a bit by ash's second post on the matter, although I'm just now realizing I'm way way too eager to give towncred for people for agreeing with me. Actually there might be something there. This is starting to remind me of mafia noir ashersky with our totally unreasonable day 1 arguments I later forgot to town's demise. I'll pull up some quotes when I get to my computer after my weekly floorball thing (so later tonight).So now you think ash is scummy, and point out to towns demise you forgot this in a past game(are you doing it now) Also want to point out, I am glad you understood robz was town, I do not find you scummy for that at all as I also knew robz was town, it was obvious and I agree it was wierd of yuma to not feel the same way.
Really freaking glad I was right about robz and also that we have an interested town robz to work with now. This is just great. mHere's a big case you make on ash, I am bringing it up because I think it is validWhy am I scummy for crazy defending Robz? Once again I think we area heading to a mislynch, I'm doing my best to not have that happen. Ashersky you really should know this isn't how Robz acts as scum!
Why is "my" case on mail-mi odd? Should I repeat it? How about the 5 other voters, all scummy or just me?
Overuse of AtE? Hmm, I don't know, I'm starting to be pretty emotionally invested in getting people to trust me about Robz.
It's scummy in a few ways. You know you just ripped liopoil for his confidence that mail-mi is scum? Yeah, that's you and Robz. SAME THING.
It's scummy if you know he's town and you're doing this for town!cred as scum.
It's scummy if you derail the viable lynch and we hit deadline without a lynch.
Your case on mail-mi is odd because IT IS THE SAME AS THE CASE ON ROBZ and you are saying the two exact cases have different outcomes, when I'm saying it's just as likely they are both scum as it is that they aren't. You've turned this into a Morgrim defense: basically, if Morgrim derphammered, he'd just get a "oh well, that's Morgrim!" but others would get grilled. Now it's Robz being super scummy and you've giving him the "oh well, that's Robz!" instead of looking at it clearly.
You keep saying "man ash you should KNOW that Robz is town because COME ON you've played a million games with him too and should KNOW." That's an AtE for sure.I don't want to turn the spotlight of attention to me and ashersky disagreeing (again :)). We've derailed these threads (when both being town too!) often enough for me to know better by now.<
I can talk about it and feel rather strongly about my side, but somehow I think we won't agree even if we spend 3 pages arguing..
I guess I'm coming across wrong. I can understand where you are coming from. That's why I've said my heart yearns for Robz to be town. But my brain can't ignore the signs that Robz is scummy. You and I agree that scummy =/= mafia, but man, it's D1 (productive one at that!) and there's not a lot to go on.
I've mentioned that I think there are cases on both Robz and mail-mi. I don't expect to convince you on Robz, and I think you won't convince me that Robz is obvtown. And really, I'm okay with the mail-mi lynch. So I don't know why we're arguing.
If mail-mi is lynched and town though, man you are getting a lot of attention on D2.
Robz, do you think these posts are a contradiction? Do you remember what ashersky was like d1 of Mafia Noir?
Yay yuma is here, so I believe his claim 100% that is an unprovoked claim that get credit because it doesn't put yuma in an advantageous scum position, it would mean multiple scum fake claimed(highly unlikely)
Also the fact that all of our power roles have been outed is another reason ashersky's well thought out claim was definitely helped scum.
I think I have to believe Yuma. Zero reason to fake that, right? I mean, maaaaaybe to save mcmc, his scum partner. But then, why not claim this the first time he mentioned it, and he's not pushing anything forcefully.
The Bus Driver is a role that can choose to switch two players each night. Thus, any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. The Bus Driver's night choices are only valid for that same night.
For example, suppose a Bus Driver switches John and Jack. That same night, a roleblocker tries to block John and a Goon tries to kill Jack. In the end, Jack will be roleblocked and John will be killed.
Very rarely, a Redirector will, instead of redirecting all Night actions that targeted a specific player, redirect all Night actions performed by a specific player. This role is rare enough that there is no unique name given to this role.
at this point I am ready to vote for mcmc.Your case seems legit to me. Solid. and yes, i did notice mc trying to bait lio. I'm not sure waiting for (if not when) a mai response, who is probably just thrilled not be have the noose around his own neck, should be any consideration on when you drop the hammer. I am fine with you doing it now. I would however note, that robz last had a little misgivings about whether or not the two were both town. You may want to give him a chance to evaluate your case. However, he did NOT unvote or place his vote elsewhere even given the chance. And he did say feel free to drop the hammer anytime (said before the suspension.
Vote Count 2.11
mcmcsalot (5): ashersky, xeiron, Robz888, Eevee, spiritbears
ashersky (2): mcmcsalot, AHoppy
Not voting: mail-mi, liopoil, yuma
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Sunday, June 9th
gosh I want yuma to get here so this can be over one way or the other. I am getting through to absolutely noone and its the most frustrating thing ever.You're getting through to ahoppy and I.
marks in ashersky's favor:ALL of this still applies. Add in yuma claiming watcher and I really prefer an ashersky lynch.
-claimed first
-might be a bad idea to do as scum, un-pressured.
-super-breadcrumb.
marks against mcmc:
-didn't put IC in jail.
-tunnels me even though he knows I didn't kill nkirbit.
marks in mcmc's favor:
-doesn't fakeclaim as scum usually.
-claimed second
-big townread of mine
-didn't seem to know robz was IC
marks against ashersky:
-only had a 1 in 9 shot of getting it right if telling truth
-mcmc likely wouldn't be the one to do the kill
-I think a JK is more likely than a tracker.
-This is totally something ashersky would try.
In regard to whether this claim is a good idea or not for scum!ash:
Right now scum needs to get 2 mislynches before all three of them get lynched, assuming 3 scum. After lynching mcmc and then ash, we're at a 2-scum-in-6 mylo, which benefits scum.
+whatever Yuma knows, which by the sound of it supports mcmc too.
Vote: Ashersky
P.S. this will be quite embarrassing if I'm totally wrong.
PPE: I don't see why nobody understands: yes mcmc is tunnelling, yes he is dead wrong, but that's no reason for me to suspect him. Everything he does looks like town!mcmc to me.
on a sidenote, I think xeiron is probably scum no matter what, but let's lynch mcmc or ash first.
Yuma, I urge you to read the last post I quoted and think about mcmc's meta. He doesn't do all this as scum. The weird stuff, like not jailing the IC and tunneling me even though I didn't do the kill for sure is stuff that only town!mcmc would do.
I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum. As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum. Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner. Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.So it could be outdated, but I think that the mafia are probably goons. Also, even if there is a bus driver, they would have had to be quite lucky to target the exact correct two people to frame mcmcsalot. Ashersky is scum. Vote: Ashersky.
Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.
I made this post during the night, so anything that might have come up since then is not accounted for here. This post assumes that Robz888 was nightkilled, because I think he is the most likely kill. I think this because for one, Yuma is still a suspect, and second, Yuma watching Robz888 won’t matter even if he’s town because ashersky probably did the kill, and we already know he’s scum. Also, I doubt we have another protective role, so scum probably isn’t worrying about that.Werent you and x mc's top suspects? I think that's probably right and with you trying that weasly "waiiiiit don't lunch mc when it eas all but inevitable makes me think mc was right from the beginning. I don't trust my own judgment after that debacle. But I am certainly going to rely on the work mc put in...may it not be in vain!
Oh man, I totally warned you all, but only Ahoppy agreed. It ought to have been clear that ashersky should have been the lynch. And ashersky is the lynch today, no doubt about it. I strongly doubt there is a bus driver. There can’t be a town bus driver because they would have claimed, and bus driver is usually a scum role. I also doubt there is a scum bus driver. Here’s one reason why, from this post by raerae in the game index that I quoted early D1:I wanted to have an 11 player game but also wanted one three person scum team (bet you can't guess who that'll be flavor-wise!) so shraeye advised me that 12 players would be better with that many scum. As far as mafia picking their team, I'll send a PM to all players, 10 of them will be the same but the 11th will identify the first scum. Everybody will be instructed to confirm receipt but the scum will also have to identify their partner. Once all PMs are received, the 2nd round will go out much the same as the first, then one more round of PMs will go out containing final instructions.So it could be outdated, but I think that the mafia are probably goons. Also, even if there is a bus driver, they would have had to be quite lucky to target the exact correct two people to frame mcmcsalot. Ashersky is scum. Vote: Ashersky.
Most of the town players will be VT, mafia will all be goons, but that's all I'm saying.
That said, let’s not put him at L-1 until we are ready to lynch him, because now moreso than before, the self-hammer is a threat.
Because mcmcsalot was town, he was telling the truth about putting me in jail N1. So you all know that I did not do the kill that night if I was mafia.
We are at mylo. That means if we mislynch we lose. We can afford to no-lynch though. I believe a no-lynch is probably in order tomorrow, to force scum to get rid of a suspect for us. We should either massclaim tomorrow before no lynch, or D5 after no lynch. I’m thinking D5, unless somebody knows something important, but if that’s the case they should probably claim today.
I have strong suspects for who the other two scum are, but I do not think it is a good idea to talk about that today. This is because it lets the mafia have a more informed choice tonight. It would be different if we weren’t sure who to lynch. But we are sure. We are lynching ashersky. Today, we make a plan of action, wait for everybody to have a chance to say something, then lynch ashersky.
obv you should mention any result you claim to have.
same goes to yuma, I really don't see
why you would not tell us what you know!! really glad you weren't nightkilled..
Vote Count 2.Final
mcmcsalot (6): ashersky, xeiron, Robz888, Eevee, spiritbears, yuma
ashersky (3): mcmcsalot, AHoppy, liopoil
Not voting: mail-mi
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Deadline is 8pm forum time on Sunday, June 9th
Ok. I don't know whether lio is right on his count. But if he is, ash just made a huge slip offering himself up. If we are at mylo and ash is town, his lunch ends the game for scumwin right? Town would NEVER offer that up. Ash is scum. Mc was right.
And enough with the bus driver lies already.
people, don't even respond to ashersky's posts. He's scum, nothing he can say will possibly help us.
marks in ashersky's favor:For those saying me being off-wagon is scummy: no it isn't. It's being one of two townies who didn't know for sure who figured it out. the quoted post are my totally valid reasons. I have no clue why he was blindly believed. Scum has to be on-wagon to make sure that their little gambit doesn't fall flat.
-claimed first
-might be a bad idea to do as scum, un-pressured.
-super-breadcrumb.
marks against mcmc:
-didn't put IC in jail.
-tunnels me even though he knows I didn't kill nkirbit.
marks in mcmc's favor:
-doesn't fakeclaim as scum usually.
-claimed second
-big townread of mine
-didn't seem to know robz was IC
marks against ashersky:
-only had a 1 in 9 shot of getting it right if telling truth
-mcmc likely wouldn't be the one to do the kill
-I think a JK is more likely than a tracker.
-This is totally something ashersky would try.
In regard to whether this claim is a good idea or not for scum!ash:
Right now scum needs to get 2 mislynches before all three of them get lynched, assuming 3 scum. After lynching mcmc and then ash, we're at a 2-scum-in-6 mylo, which benefits scum.
+whatever Yuma knows, which by the sound of it supports mcmc too.
Vote: Ashersky
P.S. this will be quite embarrassing if I'm totally wrong.
PPE: I don't see why nobody understands: yes mcmc is tunnelling, yes he is dead wrong, but that's no reason for me to suspect him. Everything he does looks like town!mcmc to me.
on a sidenote, I think xeiron is probably scum no matter what, but let's lynch mcmc or ash first.
I will be the lynch today. No one else.hey guys, wanna like, hold him to this?
And actually, I shouldn't have responded to ashersky just now, that was a mistake. The more we talk to him the more we semi-consider not lynching him, the more we lose track of what we know for sure. Today we wait for everyone to say anything that they need to say before night, then lynch ashersky. Tommorow we again wait for everyone to say anything they need to say before night, then no lynch. The day after tommorow (D5) we massclaim and scum hunt and all that good stuff.I'm fine with this. vote: ashersky
At least, that's what I think we should do.
calling it now, ash-mailmi-xeiron (or maybe lio but he seems very towny today)calling it now, ash-yuma-xeiron (or maybe mail-mi or eevee)
And actually, I shouldn't have responded to ashersky just now, that was a mistake. The more we talk to him the more we semi-consider not lynching him, the more we lose track of what we know for sure. Today we wait for everyone to say anything that they need to say before night, then lynch ashersky. Tommorow we again wait for everyone to say anything they need to say before night, then no lynch. The day after tommorow (D5) we massclaim and scum hunt and all that good stuff.
At least, that's what I think we should do.
Once mcmc flipped town, I knew our only hope rested on me tracking the bus driver, not the killer. I figured the best chance of that was still to track a scum read and hope for the best.
And I did it. I need to be able to make up for killing mcmc. I really know why Robz was being so lame at the start of D2, not wanting to lead town. It really crushes your confidence to be so sure you are right, and then to be wrong.
I'm so sorry mcmc.
And actually, I shouldn't have responded to ashersky just now, that was a mistake. The more we talk to him the more we semi-consider not lynching him, the more we lose track of what we know for sure. Today we wait for everyone to say anything that they need to say before night, then lynch ashersky. Tommorow we again wait for everyone to say anything they need to say before night, then no lynch. The day after tommorow (D5) we massclaim and scum hunt and all that good stuff.I'm fine with this. vote: ashersky
At least, that's what I think we should do.
very interested in what yuma says when he gets here though.
calling it now, ash-mailmi-xeiron (or maybe lio but he seems very towny today)
Right now scum needs to get 2 mislynches before all three of them get lynched, assuming 3 scum. After lynching mcmc and then ash, we're at a 2-scum-in-6 mylo, which benefits scum.
oh, yuma? that's a very interesting thought, what makes you think that?
I will be the lynch today. No one else.hey guys, wanna like, hold him to this?
well, I'm not sure, maybe we should talk about who we think the other scum are, so that whoever dies tonight and tommorow night has their reads out. But on the other hand, scum can make a more informed kill.
For those saying me being off-wagon is scummy: no it isn't. It's being one of two townies who didn't know for sure who figured it out. the quoted post are my totally valid reasons. I have no clue why he was blindly believed. Scum has to be on-wagon to make sure that their little gambit doesn't fall flat.
We shouldn't no lynch today because we have a claimed PR who will be useless because ashersky is no doubt the scum preforming the kills. No lynch tommorow. I do not, in fact, 100% know that ashersky is scum, but I must assume he is scum because he is the one we are lynching today and if he isn't scum we've already lost because it is indeed mylo.
Also, I do have strong reads on who the other two scum are like I said in my first post today. I can make a big post explaining them. I do not think this is a good idea today though because we are lynching ashersky today, not his partners.
PPE: #1: see quoted post above. #2: because he's an IC, that's why. #3: you don't need to have scummy things because we know you are scum.
oh, yuma? that's a very interesting thought, what makes you think that?many things.
Oh, and bravo on directing me to mcmc on D1. You KNEW investigative roles would target mcmc if you planted the seed of suspicion on him D1 as the possible partner. You were pushing that possibility, mentioning your previous experience. Talk about pre-game plans coming to fruition man. Well played.
I'm going to completely ignore the rest of your comments because talking about them will get us nowhere, and is just more likely to end up with someone besides you getting lynched. your points make no sense to me. But I'll comment on this one. are you saying that I am a bus-driver?
ignoring those who are assumed to be scum isn't scummy.
Yeah, I can't be a bus driver, mcmc put me in jail N1 :P
I've read your posts, but not particularly thoroughly. no real motive to. not because I'm scum (I'm not), but because nothing you can possibly say could change my mind about anything, because I know what you're saying is in the interests of your wincon, not mine.
This is just soooo unbelievable. Well maybe not considering the source. Ash directed the mc mislynch. We were all on xerion or mai before his epic claim. And I remember him directing traffic right up until the lynch....this just reeks. But ash' scumniness is really not even at issue. The real question is whether this is a staged spat with lio. Nevertheless. I don't think we need lots of time for scum to weasel us into another bad lunch.well, I'm not sure, maybe we should talk about who we think the other scum are, so that whoever dies tonight and tommorow night has their reads out. But on the other hand, scum can make a more informed kill.
Why are you saying crap like this? You know if you mislynch me, you win.
Oh, and bravo on directing me to mcmc on D1. You KNEW investigative roles would target mcmc if you planted the seed of suspicion on him D1 as the possible partner. You were pushing that possibility, mentioning your previous experience. Talk about pre-game plans coming to fruition man. Well played.
This is just soooo unbelievable. Well maybe not considering the source. Ash directed the mc mislynch. We were all on xerion or mai before his epic claim. And I remember him directing traffic right up until the lynch....this just reeks. But ash' scumniness is really not even at issue. The real question is whether this is a staged spat with lio. Nevertheless. I don't think we need lots of time for scum to weasel us into another bad lunch.well, I'm not sure, maybe we should talk about who we think the other scum are, so that whoever dies tonight and tommorow night has their reads out. But on the other hand, scum can make a more informed kill.
Why are you saying crap like this? You know if you mislynch me, you win.
Oh, and bravo on directing me to mcmc on D1. You KNEW investigative roles would target mcmc if you planted the seed of suspicion on him D1 as the possible partner. You were pushing that possibility, mentioning your previous experience. Talk about pre-game plans coming to fruition man. Well played.
Decided someone and never changing is what got us in this situation in the first place. You seem frustrated that no one listened to you about mcmc being town at the end of D2. So I think you can empathize with me right now. At least listen, you are already voting for me, so what does it hurt? Listen, process, whatever...you can at least give me that much respect.sure, I'll read your posts, but I'll read them knowing that you claimed to be a tracker that saw mcmc, a confirmed town jailkeeper, target nkirbit N1, who died.
Think about it this way, when I flip town, you'll feel terrible anyway. At least you can say you listened and gave me a fair chance.
I told you exactly how I would feel if mc flipped town---betrayed by you. I told I wouldn't be buying any bus driver nonsense.This is just soooo unbelievable. Well maybe not considering the source. Ash directed the mc mislynch. We were all on xerion or mai before his epic claim. And I remember him directing traffic right up until the lynch....this just reeks. But ash' scumniness is really not even at issue. The real question is whether this is a staged spat with lio. Nevertheless. I don't think we need lots of time for scum to weasel us into another bad lunch.well, I'm not sure, maybe we should talk about who we think the other scum are, so that whoever dies tonight and tommorow night has their reads out. But on the other hand, scum can make a more informed kill.
Why are you saying crap like this? You know if you mislynch me, you win.
Oh, and bravo on directing me to mcmc on D1. You KNEW investigative roles would target mcmc if you planted the seed of suspicion on him D1 as the possible partner. You were pushing that possibility, mentioning your previous experience. Talk about pre-game plans coming to fruition man. Well played.
spirit, why the huge change of direction from you? Other than the mcmc flip, you have no reason to suspect me, right? I feel like you had a pretty good town read on me all game.
I told you exactly how I would feel if mc flipped town---betrayed by you. I told I wouldn't be buying any bus driver nonsense.This is just soooo unbelievable. Well maybe not considering the source. Ash directed the mc mislynch. We were all on xerion or mai before his epic claim. And I remember him directing traffic right up until the lynch....this just reeks. But ash' scumniness is really not even at issue. The real question is whether this is a staged spat with lio. Nevertheless. I don't think we need lots of time for scum to weasel us into another bad lunch.well, I'm not sure, maybe we should talk about who we think the other scum are, so that whoever dies tonight and tommorow night has their reads out. But on the other hand, scum can make a more informed kill.
Why are you saying crap like this? You know if you mislynch me, you win.
Oh, and bravo on directing me to mcmc on D1. You KNEW investigative roles would target mcmc if you planted the seed of suspicion on him D1 as the possible partner. You were pushing that possibility, mentioning your previous experience. Talk about pre-game plans coming to fruition man. Well played.
spirit, why the huge change of direction from you? Other than the mcmc flip, you have no reason to suspect me, right? I feel like you had a pretty good town read on me all game.
Now mc made a very good point that gnawed on me all night...to believe you we have to think you (miraculously) target the one scum doing the night kill. And now we are to believe you (miraculousky) targeted the "bus driver"...man that's just not believable.
I am back. As I mentioned before I am a Watcher, 2-shot. Both nights I have watched Robz. I am not going to say anything about the first night, but last night I saw ash targeting Robz. I believe he killed him.
I see ash's arguments that there is a bus driver and acknowledge them. Yes it is possible... but still very unlikely compared to anything else. I think we have to lynch ash today. If we lose, then scum played the perfect game and got really lucky with their manipulation of this town, and there isn't anything more we can do.
vote: ashersky that is L-1 yes? Shortest day ever? Why not? I don't see the point of really continuing the discussion for today. Either the game continues and we can analyze the stuff that actually matters from previous days tomorrow... or the game is over. Extending the game longer than necessary I think just dilutes our memories of what happened and overly complicates the game with unnecessary fluff (see all the huge posts and crap from Pirates that we had to suffer through and ultimately led us to the wrong decision)...
I tracked x, he targeted me and Ahoppy.
So anything ahoppy did, it looked like it did it. That's the only explanation for me targeting Robz.
I tracked x, he targeted me and Ahoppy.
So anything ahoppy did, it looked like it did it. That's the only explanation for me targeting Robz.
I tracked x, he targeted me and Ahoppy.
So anything ahoppy did, it looked like it did it. That's the only explanation for me targeting Robz.
so what you are saying is that xeiron is mafia? and ahoppy is mafia?
WIFOM, man.
2--why do I kill Robz, who clearly believes in me and the possibility of a bus driver
In ash's favor: If he was this giant suspect, (and bus driving could be helpful in talking out of his lynch), why would the scum team use him to target Robz when the (claimed) watcher was sure to be tracking him?
In ash's favor: If he was this giant suspect, (and bus driving could be helpful in talking out of his lynch), why would the scum team use him to target Robz when the (claimed) watcher was sure to be tracking him?
if ash is scum he has to make the kill... because anyone else making the kill might get outed and then there would be one outed along with ash highly suspected! They don't have to worry about him being JK... unfortunately.
I have to go to bed. 10 hour days are starting to kick me all over the place.
I won't revote now. I think it is worth hearing how both xeiron and ahoppy respond to this. I don't think I believe it, but the responses I do think are useful to look at.
I don't know how we are going to get to 5 on ash. Even when Yuma devoted, the people still off train are the ones I think more likely to be scum
Ahop---major lurker.
Mai--played like scum all game now thinks ash is just peachy
Xerion--I was starting to see as townie down the stretch of the mc fiasco. Now I'm not so sure. Still my highest hope for a town in the bunch
Really. Can you see any of these characters throwing down the hammer?
Alright, what I think of ash:
I don't like his instant claim to lynch him today and now the major reversal where he is not scum and it would be a mislynch.
I think that waiting to not reveal his target until after yuma did is terribly scummy. Possibly the scummiest thing he has done all game. by waiting he ensured that he did not make a fool of himself by claiming the wrong targets. If he had claimed before yuma did and his targets had still made sense with yuma's target claim, then he would have gotten more cred from me. Unless of course it is an ash-yuma scum team, but that's not what happened. He waited, so I think he is scum
With regards to his claim that x drove me and ash, that claim is straight up false. I am a Vanilla Town, so if xerion did bus drive us, yuma would have seen ash do nothing. Which would have been pretty good for scum. But this is not the case. Yuma saw ash kill robz, therefore ash must be the scum that made the kill. Yuma made a good point earlier that ash had to be the one that made the kill so nobody else would be suspected. There is no bus driver (or if there is, ash is lying about who he saw driven), ash is scum and I am willing to Vote: ashersky. I'm fine with yuma hammering and getting on with finding his scum partners.
Alright, what I think of ash:
I don't like his instant claim to lynch him today and now the major reversal where he is not scum and it would be a mislynch.
I think that waiting to not reveal his target until after yuma did is terribly scummy. Possibly the scummiest thing he has done all game. by waiting he ensured that he did not make a fool of himself by claiming the wrong targets. If he had claimed before yuma did and his targets had still made sense with yuma's target claim, then he would have gotten more cred from me. Unless of course it is an ash-yuma scum team, but that's not what happened. He waited, so I think he is scum
With regards to his claim that x drove me and ash, that claim is straight up false. I am a Vanilla Town, so if xerion did bus drive us, yuma would have seen ash do nothing. Which would have been pretty good for scum. But this is not the case. Yuma saw ash kill robz, therefore ash must be the scum that made the kill. Yuma made a good point earlier that ash had to be the one that made the kill so nobody else would be suspected. There is no bus driver (or if there is, ash is lying about who he saw driven), ash is scum and I am willing to Vote: ashersky. I'm fine with yuma hammering and getting on with finding his scum partners.
I tracked x, he targeted me and Ahoppy.
So anything ahoppy did, it looked like it did it. That's the only explanation for me targeting Robz.
so we are no longer at mylo, we now can afford a mislynch!Why are you so eager to mislynch!!! How about we get it right again instead!
Post Count:Those are some lurky kids st the bottom of your list lio!
D1, D2, D3, TotalAshersky: 146, 87, 41, 274
Liopoil: 112, 81, 14, 207
Spiritbears: 69, 87, 10, 166
Yuma: 89, 57, 5, 151
Eevee: 73, 57, 4, 134Mcmcsalot: 44, 88, 0, 132
Nkirbit: 106, 0, 0, 106
Robz888: 57, 33, 0, 90
Sudgy: 72, 0, 0, 72
Mail-mi: 36, 15, 3, 54
Xeiron: 28, 21, 1, 50
Ahoppy: 17, 18, 1, 36
so we are no longer at mylo, we now can afford a mislynch!Yay! And yay for no NKs.
oh, I'd love to get it right again. I'm just happy knowing that even if we fail we aren't dead yet. If someone had died tonight, we would have had to lynch two scum in a row, which is really tough. Now we have two shots at it.Ok. Btw your count made me sure of Ash's scumslip so I'm going with it for now.
except that, it would make sense that Yuma was the one that got saved. ugh. we probably shouldn't speculate about this though. Let's hear from Yuma.No I mean maybe he lied about being s watcher and really had a rokeblocker power. Maybe two shot...but then why doesn't robzz get saved. To me that says no rokeblocker left.
massclaim today or tommorow? I'm leaning towards tommorow.
Yuma can't be the protector because he claimed watcher. do you mean protectee?
So let's see what we have:VT isn't really the auto-claim. That's ashersky twisting everything because he's scum. It's more the fact that you claimed at all - you shouldn't have said anything.'
xerion drops the hammer. Seeing as he was most of our scummiest reads, so dropping the hammer could give him some town cred. I personally don't give him any. I actually really like liopoil's case on yuma. I may have to go back and re-read him. I'm looking forward to yuma's response.
As to my VT claim, I didn't know that was the auto claim for scum, but a few seconds thought would probably have shown me that... I don't know what else I would have claimed, I'm not about to pretend I'm a PR as VT. it's much easier for scum to do that (as we saw with ashersky) because they have much more information. That final claim of ashersky's was enough to show me that he was scum, because it was an outright lie, so I voted and we're doing alright... Although with the absence of a night kill, we have less information, so we're down 2 town and a scum since D2 and not much has changed except the case on yuma. I'd still like to hear something substantial from mail-mi. He has been lurking the whole game (maybe not as much as me) but I don't remember a single one of his posts that constructively added to any discussion. I'd like to hear some more from him. Something with any meaning...
Post Count
except that, it would make sense that Yuma was the one that got saved. ugh. we probably shouldn't speculate about this though. Let's hear from Yuma.
massclaim today or tommorow? I'm leaning towards tommorow.
Yuma can't be the protector because he claimed watcher. do you mean protectee?
We can't pay any attention to anything ashersky said D3 or D2 because he knew he would be lynched soon, so everything he says is trying to manipulate us after he dies. What we should do is look at D1 ashersky.
Good stuff Yuma. Agree completelyWe can't pay any attention to anything ashersky said D3 or D2 because he knew he would be lynched soon, so everything he says is trying to manipulate us after he dies. What we should do is look at D1 ashersky.
And day2 before he claimed...
But even beyond that I strongly disagree. We need to pay attention to what ash said... But we need to remember that he said it as scum that was going to be lynched and treat it with caution... but to dismiss it completely... No. That isn't a good idea. Look at ash all around...
Yes he is trying to manipulate us, but we need to try and work around that manipulation.
I think it's more likely there's a doc, but really, we have no clue.
we think there's 3 scum because A) it fits mean girls flavor B) raerae strongly hinted at in the the mafia game index, and C) in the OP is says mafia choose their partnerS.
Yuma: Why did you claim 2-shot watcher yesterday and why did you use your last shot on night 2?
re: ash misdirection: we can't look at D2 before he claimed because he breadcrumbed it quite obviously and so was probably planning to claim already. You can look at it, but there's nothing to see. EVERYTHING will be WIFOM, and nothing can be gleaned.
I am not saying ash did the same thing here. But he might have. He "investigated" two players (Ahoppy and xeiron). We need to go back and see if we can figure out why he included those two players and see if we can glean anything from it. Maybe we can, maybe we can't. But again to just completely ignore it... I think that is the wrong move... As for day2. Again ash had interactions with players and players had interactions with him. Just ignoring it is the wrong move. Basing an entire read just off WIFOM is also the wrong move... and i am not suggesting that. But it can and should be part of any case that is presented as a viable narrative for what happened.
Mai---this is probably the first time I've agreed with you all game.Yay! (To the agreeing, not the first time)
I don't think a doctor wants to claim yet! What would that even accomplish, other than creating two IC's (his target and himself)?? It must be better to wait as claiming makes him an instant NK target, obviously if either the protected player or yourself are getting lynched, you need to claim. (I do think a doctor is more likely than roleblocker, town roleblockers are very rare I think.)I said if it is a Roleblocker.
I know, and I think I agree with you. Spirit I think extended it to all protective roles, which I think is a mistake.I don't think a doctor wants to claim yet! What would that even accomplish, other than creating two IC's (his target and himself)?? It must be better to wait as claiming makes him an instant NK target, obviously if either the protected player or yourself are getting lynched, you need to claim. (I do think a doctor is more likely than roleblocker, town roleblockers are very rare I think.)I said if it is a Roleblocker.
Not intentionally. I can see my response wasn't clear. I am speaking to rokeblockingI know, and I think I agree with you. Spirit I think extended it to all protective roles, which I think is a mistake.I don't think a doctor wants to claim yet! What would that even accomplish, other than creating two IC's (his target and himself)?? It must be better to wait as claiming makes him an instant NK target, obviously if either the protected player or yourself are getting lynched, you need to claim. (I do think a doctor is more likely than roleblocker, town roleblockers are very rare I think.)I said if it is a Roleblocker.
@doctor: I find it unlikely we have a doctor and a jk. I would probably say a Roleblocker. If you are a town Roleblocker, please claim so we can catch scum. If you are scum and would like to fake claim Roleblocker, don't worry we'll lynch you tomorrow.
Btw vets, if this is a bad suggestion, please say so.
I'm not suggesting mass claiming, in just suggesting one person claim. And yes, this was basically an aside, lets find scum.@doctor: I find it unlikely we have a doctor and a jk. I would probably say a Roleblocker. If you are a town Roleblocker, please claim so we can catch scum. If you are scum and would like to fake claim Roleblocker, don't worry we'll lynch you tomorrow.
Btw vets, if this is a bad suggestion, please say so.
I find it opposite. For starters if I continue the line of thought that you outline here I am very much more inclined to think that we have a doc over a JK. Because a jailkeeper is basically a roleblocker that also can protect. I mean we think of JK as a protective role for some reason, but really it is a roleblocking variant.
But like I said before... I don't necessarily see the utility of discussing this at this juncture. Let's try to find scum today--I think we have a pretty good chance--and then worry about mass claiming or not tomorrow.
I am not saying ash did the same thing here. But he might have. He "investigated" two players (Ahoppy and xeiron). We need to go back and see if we can figure out why he included those two players and see if we can glean anything from it. Maybe we can, maybe we can't. But again to just completely ignore it... I think that is the wrong move... As for day2. Again ash had interactions with players and players had interactions with him. Just ignoring it is the wrong move. Basing an entire read just off WIFOM is also the wrong move... and i am not suggesting that. But it can and should be part of any case that is presented as a viable narrative for what happened.
I have thought about why Ashersky chose me as the bus driver.
Lets imagine what would happened is we had listened to Ashersky last day, and lynched me instead of him. I would flip town and he would be 100% obvscum. Now, lets say I am scum. I would flip mafia goon (or som non-bus-driver powerrole) and he would still be 100% obvscum, because he needed me to be bus-driver for his claim to make sense. I would not flip bus driver as there is no bus driver in the game, at least there is no reason to think it is.
My point is, unless ashersky was 100% sure he would be lynched last day, he would be better of accusing a town player of being bus driver. I am not sure what to make of Ahoppy being named the goon.
I would have chosen Eevee, I think. A reunion from MAII. For a third, I think someone no one would associate with me, but that I know well from modding, like mail-mi or Lio.
Looking back, I'm still quite suspicious of xerion. He was looking scummy before the mcmc/ashersky fiasco, he jumped on mcmc the instant ash claimed, and I don't like that. This whole situation has tended to make xerion look better, especially how he made himself look better with this:Ooh nice point Ahops (can I call you that?), but xeiron is always seen as scummy. I really can't think of a game where he hasn't, and I don't think he's ever been scum (plz correct me if I'm wrong).
I am not saying ash did the same thing here. But he might have. He "investigated" two players (Ahoppy and xeiron). We need to go back and see if we can figure out why he included those two players and see if we can glean anything from it. Maybe we can, maybe we can't. But again to just completely ignore it... I think that is the wrong move... As for day2. Again ash had interactions with players and players had interactions with him. Just ignoring it is the wrong move. Basing an entire read just off WIFOM is also the wrong move... and i am not suggesting that. But it can and should be part of any case that is presented as a viable narrative for what happened.
I have thought about why Ashersky chose me as the bus driver.
Lets imagine what would happened is we had listened to Ashersky last day, and lynched me instead of him. I would flip town and he would be 100% obvscum. Now, lets say I am scum. I would flip mafia goon (or som non-bus-driver powerrole) and he would still be 100% obvscum, because he needed me to be bus-driver for his claim to make sense. I would not flip bus driver as there is no bus driver in the game, at least there is no reason to think it is.
My point is, unless ashersky was 100% sure he would be lynched last day, he would be better of accusing a town player of being bus driver. I am not sure what to make of Ahoppy being named the goon.
I think he's trying to make some WIFOM with this. Would he do this knowing we would believe him? Ash's claim that xerion was the bus driver does indeed make him look good, I'm just not sure I believe it. I'm willing to take yuma's word to be suspicious of xerion. so I think I'm going to have to Vote: Xerion
you can't expect me to believe that. Vote: Yuma until I have a reason not to. This is way too convenient for him to be town. I mean, look at your claim. It did NOTHING for town then. nothing. It does help you as scum though. And if you are indeed a two-shot watcher, you have no reason to watch N2. At that point ash was already obvscum and it was clear he would be doing the kill. It doesn't jive. I'm trying to think of possible things you might see that could change that, but I can't think of anything at all. Being able to claim like this for no reason, not tell us anything that could help us, wasting your last shot, and getting away with it is just ridiculous.Yuma: Why did you claim 2-shot watcher yesterday and why did you use your last shot on night 2?
I have my reasons. Trust them. Don't trust them. But I am not answering this.
The thing is, there never was any doubt that ashersky was going to be lynched. and he guaranteed this by lying about 2 players, which he knew would draw their votes. He did this at L-2. It was a pseudo-selfhammer. so no towncred for you.
I am not saying ash did the same thing here. But he might have. He "investigated" two players (Ahoppy and xeiron). We need to go back and see if we can figure out why he included those two players and see if we can glean anything from it. Maybe we can, maybe we can't. But again to just completely ignore it... I think that is the wrong move... As for day2. Again ash had interactions with players and players had interactions with him. Just ignoring it is the wrong move. Basing an entire read just off WIFOM is also the wrong move... and i am not suggesting that. But it can and should be part of any case that is presented as a viable narrative for what happened.
I have thought about why Ashersky chose me as the bus driver.
Lets imagine what would happened is we had listened to Ashersky last day, and lynched me instead of him. I would flip town and he would be 100% obvscum. Now, lets say I am scum. I would flip mafia goon (or som non-bus-driver powerrole) and he would still be 100% obvscum, because he needed me to be bus-driver for his claim to make sense. I would not flip bus driver as there is no bus driver in the game, at least there is no reason to think it is.
My point is, unless ashersky was 100% sure he would be lynched last day, he would be better of accusing a town player of being bus driver. I am not sure what to make of Ahoppy being named the goon.
Right. Now, if I was scum!ash, I would name one of my actual partners and one that wasnt. So that's mail-mi, liopoil, and Eevee. I can rule out myself, and then I'd put it at a slightly-greater-than-50%-chance lio or Eevee is scum.
I would have chosen Eevee, I think. A reunion from MAII. For a third, I think someone no one would associate with me, but that I know well from modding, like mail-mi or Lio.
While we are trying to analyze Ashersky, we also have this quote where Ashersky says he would pick Eevee and liopoil or mail-mi as scum partners.
Well I guess lio doesn't trust them.... I didn't really expect him to given his incredulous stance since I first claimed... But his vote on me isn't going to change my stance.I mean, I have really just no reason to trust you at all. I don't know how you can expect anyone to believe you...
Well I guess lio doesn't trust them.... I didn't really expect him to given his incredulous stance since I first claimed... But his vote on me isn't going to change my stance.I mean, I have really just no reason to trust you at all. I don't know how you can expect anyone to believe you...
Looking back, I'm still quite suspicious of xerion. He was looking scummy before the mcmc/ashersky fiasco, he jumped on mcmc the instant ash claimed, and I don't like that. This whole situation has tended to make xerion look better, especially how he made himself look better with this:Remember it was MC that first started pointing the finger at xerion. That I find significant.
I am not saying ash did the same thing here. But he might have. He "investigated" two players (Ahoppy and xeiron). We need to go back and see if we can figure out why he included those two players and see if we can glean anything from it. Maybe we can, maybe we can't. But again to just completely ignore it... I think that is the wrong move... As for day2. Again ash had interactions with players and players had interactions with him. Just ignoring it is the wrong move. Basing an entire read just off WIFOM is also the wrong move... and i am not suggesting that. But it can and should be part of any case that is presented as a viable narrative for what happened.
I have thought about why Ashersky chose me as the bus driver.
Lets imagine what would happened is we had listened to Ashersky last day, and lynched me instead of him. I would flip town and he would be 100% obvscum. Now, lets say I am scum. I would flip mafia goon (or som non-bus-driver powerrole) and he would still be 100% obvscum, because he needed me to be bus-driver for his claim to make sense. I would not flip bus driver as there is no bus driver in the game, at least there is no reason to think it is.
My point is, unless ashersky was 100% sure he would be lynched last day, he would be better of accusing a town player of being bus driver. I am not sure what to make of Ahoppy being named the goon.
I think he's trying to make some WIFOM with this. Would he do this knowing we would believe him? Ash's claim that xerion was the bus driver does indeed make him look good, I'm just not sure I believe it. I'm willing to take yuma's word to be suspicious of xerion. so I think I'm going to have to Vote: Xerion
Yuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
I think up to the point where he made the unpressured claim, he has played an extremely pro-town gameYuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
Here's where I think folks are on the level of participation as compared to what I would expect of them. Subjective, but useful. I highly suggest others do something of this nature. As mentioned, getting reads down helps us all in future days when we're trying to sort out interactions.
Participating at an expected level: ashersky, liopoil, nkirbit, mgp, mcmc, sb
Participating below the norm: yuma, mail-mi, Eevee, Robz888, AHoppy
Participating WAY below the norm: sudgy (VLA annoucement)
I think what sticks out to me is Robz/Eevee both undercontributing as compared to every other game we've all played. Robz likes to use the "I never participate on D1 of RMM games" argument to cover up his lurking on D1s of RMM games, but this isn't an RMM game. Eevee has acti-lurked, I think. A few well-timed posts with safe opinions that don't say much. AND he's not buddying like he usually does. yuma's just a bit under normal, I think. His normal leading town as town (or as scum) ways aren't coming out as usual.
I think the newbies, with the exception of AHoppy, are about right. Liopoil and mail-mi I could be mixing up--I do that often, as I associate them together since they started at around the same time.
but Yuma always does that. Pro-town people can easily be scum.I think up to the point where he made the unpressured claim, he has played an extremely pro-town gameYuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
However---right on cue, you quote my plea yuma has ignored!!
I'm am probably not going to vote for xeiron because everybody always finds him scummy.that's a terrible reason! if we followed that, scum!xeiron would always win. always.
so, I'm not sure what to make of eevee off of this. I lean scummy on him. Lean town on mail-mi for all that. Not much on anyone else. who is the leader of the plastics in mean girls? if it's gretchen, ashersky was choosing. if it isn't, someone chose ashersky.
But this looks more like town scummy xeiron than scum scummy xeiron.but Yuma always does that. Pro-town people can easily be scum.I think up to the point where he made the unpressured claim, he has played an extremely pro-town gameYuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
However---right on cue, you quote my plea yuma has ignored!!I'm am probably not going to vote for xeiron because everybody always finds him scummy.that's a terrible reason! if we followed that, scum!xeiron would always win. always.
I think up to the point where he made the unpressured claim, he has played an extremely pro-town gameYuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
However---right on cue, you quote my plea yuma has ignored!!
Well there goes my thing.
so, I'm not sure what to make of eevee off of this. I lean scummy on him. Lean town on mail-mi for all that. Not much on anyone else. who is the leader of the plastics in mean girls? if it's gretchen, ashersky was choosing. if it isn't, someone chose ashersky.
Google says Regina George is the leader.
Gretchen Wieners and Karen Smith are the other two. Meaning Ashersky did not do the picking.
this looks more like town scummy xeiron than scum scummy xeiron.any reasons at all?
Maybe in a game where all is equal. But here we have a couple other choices that are not just playing anti town but fairly scummy. I do not agree with mai's description of towny-scummy whateverbut Yuma always does that. Pro-town people can easily be scum.I think up to the point where he made the unpressured claim, he has played an extremely pro-town gameYuma--I've trusted you all game, but that kindof faith led me into trusting Ash. I do want to trust you and I certainly wouldn't compare your play our devious friend.....but I need something more to go on. If you're town (and I believe you are) and can help us nail one of the Last remaining scum....please do!why do you trust him?
However---right on cue, you quote my plea yuma has ignored!!I'm am probably not going to vote for xeiron because everybody always finds him scummy.that's a terrible reason! if we followed that, scum!xeiron would always win. always.
I wish I could talk about RMM6, but I can't, so I can't really give you my reason.this looks more like town scummy xeiron than scum scummy xeiron.any reasons at all?
hmm, okay, I guess that's fine. What do you think about Yuma? Can you think of a reason that a town player might claim 2-shot watcher and -seemingly- waste his last shot N2? and also claim for -seemingly- no reason?
f he were scum desperate for a mislynch it would be easier for him to put his vote on me. It is hard to guess the future, but i was feeling that we were heading towards lynching me before ashersky claimed. Why a 1-1 exchange with mcmc whhen you have a mislynch in front of me?
Even if you think I am scum, it do not make sense.
I would be in spotlight if ash flip scum. And 1 town against two scum is no good trade for scum.
I guess the only way asherskys actions would make sense as scum is if you believe he is lining up two mislynches, mcmc and me. But that is a long, complicated plan where much could go wrong. Better walk the safe road and mislynch me today.
Since scum ashersky does not make much sense, i believe Ashersky is town.
The stuff from back from D2 is very strong though, and ultimately I would not be opposed to a xeiron lynch, I just strongly prefer a Yuma lynch.
With this case, I am now not so hesitant to lynch xeiron, but I will definitely not bechammering.I have to wonder mai----do you ever??
Hammer? Yes. Who do I hammer? Myself :D. (See bankers, D2)With this case, I am now not so hesitant to lynch xeiron, but I will definitely not bechammering.I have to wonder mai----do you ever??
Can I have some questions to answer so I can prove I'm town and we can not lose this game, plz?
hmm, okay, I guess that's fine. What do you think about Yuma? Can you think of a reason that a town player might claim 2-shot watcher and -seemingly- waste his last shot N2? and also claim for -seemingly- no reason?
I am not... Just because he is in another game doesn't meanyoumail-mi can't talk about him in this game...
I mean...youmail-mi can't say xeiron did this in this game and in RMM6 and compare the two. Butyoumail-mi can go back, bring up specific posts and say "xeiron did this and I find it townie" w/o saying that it has anything to do with RMM6.
Saying "RMM6 stuff can't say anything more" is way too easy of an out and can easily be a way for scum to justify a read w/o putting any effort into it.
xeiron, what do you think about other people, particularly yuma? also, what do you have to say about the case presented against you?
So if your focus on me mostly in regard to my refusal to talk about my claim? You really can't think of a reason that I wouldn't want to talk about it? Mostly, this just seems like a crazy reason to vote. I am not asking you to 100% believe me, but I think you are missing an opportunity to lynch scum by placing your vote on me for a weird reason.Yuma, yes, most of my case on you is about the claiming thing, but there's also the mcmc hammer. I don't think you would hammer him in a rush on the way to work as town, because of what happened in pirates. I also think that you would be likely to realize that ash was scum if you are town.
why would scum try to kill him? He was a fair suspect for lynch the next day and claimed to have used up all his shots.xeiron, what do you think about other people, particularly yuma? also, what do you have to say about the case presented against you?
I think Yuma is town, because I think he was targeted with the night kill last night.
Because he is a PR and because he may very well have lied about being two-shot.why would scum try to kill him? He was a fair suspect for lynch the next day and claimed to have used up all his shots.xeiron, what do you think about other people, particularly yuma? also, what do you have to say about the case presented against you?
I think Yuma is town, because I think he was targeted with the night kill last night.
How could you possibly know this?xeiron, what do you think about other people, particularly yuma? also, what do you have to say about the case presented against you?
I think Yuma is town, because I think he was targeted with the night kill last night.
You said it yourself, WIFOM. You're drawing your conclution that this means I am scum because you already have a scum read on me and you want me to be scum. You could use this episode to say I am town as well, if you wanted.
Ok... here is my attempt to reread who I think is the most suspicious based off my skimming from during the night. As I already stated I think our best candidate today for finding scum is xeiron.
To reiterate my case on him I will post this link:
Where there is a summary, but will be brief and just list some key points here:
- his vote on eevee because of the "list"
- his backing of this vote and saying it wasn't serious when it was above
- his really bad case on lio
Now some new stuff...
I think it is important... despite what lio says... to look at day2 and the context of ash's claim.
Ash claimed here:
At this point in the game the vote count was thus:
mcmcsalot (2): ashersky, mail-mi
liopoil (2): mcmcsalot, xeiron
xeiron (4): yuma, liopoil, spiritbears, Eevee
mail-mi (1): AHoppy
Not voting: Robz888
with Robz expressing suspicion toward xeiron and a lot of people expressing suspicion toward ash. I think at this point ash realized that the town was moving toward a lynch of himself, a teammate in xeiron... and maybe a lynch of another team mate in lio or mail-mi (although I really don't see either of those wagons happening day2, they were dying off...)
So I see ash thinking this and thinking that at that moment was the opportune time to fake claim. Yes he had set it up... but if town was headed toward a mislynch (of xeiron if he is town) why would he do something so incredibly risky. Here I think lio is going to say WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM over and over again. yes lio... WIFOM. We get it. But that doesn't mean we should just shut our eyes and ignore what happened because it happened for a reason. We just have to figure out what the reason is and I think we are perfectly capable of doing that...
But you think I have posted more than enough for the rest of the game?
Next let's look at xeiron's reaction to ash's claim:
he was the very first player to post afterward and simply voted for mcmc. No reason. Just a vote. From there he said very, very little the rest of day2.
- he says he thinks ash could survive night2, sees no reason that ash would lie as scum and that is it. But really I dont' find what he says to be scummy, but just that he said so incredibly little during this whole process. It was like he went, "ash claimed! I don't need to post anymore!"
It is a good question you ask, and the answers I get is that it could make sense for Ashersky to name me whether I am scum or town, meaning we are back to WIFOM
Somehow I missed this as I browsed through that xeiron said late day2. I think it is the most interesting piece out of the three:Quotef he were scum desperate for a mislynch it would be easier for him to put his vote on me. It is hard to guess the future, but i was feeling that we were heading towards lynching me before ashersky claimed. Why a 1-1 exchange with mcmc whhen you have a mislynch in front of me?
Even if you think I am scum, it do not make sense.
I would be in spotlight if ash flip scum. And 1 town against two scum is no good trade for scum.
I guess the only way asherskys actions would make sense as scum is if you believe he is lining up two mislynches, mcmc and me. But that is a long, complicated plan where much could go wrong. Better walk the safe road and mislynch me today.
Since scum ashersky does not make much sense, i believe Ashersky is town.
As for day3. I agree with lio that xeiron hammering was the right thing to do as mafia or town. So nothing going there. There is the question of whether or not ash would put a scummate as one of his "pseudo-investigations." And xeiron does bring up the point that if xeiron were the teammate and were lynched he might not have flipped bus driver and then ash would still be lying. But at that point I think ash knew he was dead... so the question is would he pick two townies, two scummates or (like arch in bankers) one of each as his pseudo-investigation.
at this point I am ready to vote: xeiron my case from early day2 still stands and the addition of newer material adds to it and I think it is compelling.
You said it yourself, WIFOM. You're drawing your conclution that this means I am scum because you already have a scum read on me and you want me to be scum. You could use this episode to say I am town as well, if you wanted.
But you think I have posted more than enough for the rest of the game?
Should I take that as a compliment?
It is a good question you ask, and the answers I get is that it could make sense for Ashersky to name me whether I am scum or town, meaning we are back to WIFOM
Yuma, yes, most of my case on you is about the claiming thing, but there's also the mcmc hammer. I don't think you would hammer him in a rush on the way to work as town, because of what happened in pirates. I also think that you would be likely to realize that ash was scum if you are town.
I can think of reasons to explain some parts of your actions, but I cannot think of anything that explains everything except you being scum. The most logical explanation for me that you claimed watcher when you did on D2 and then the next day claimed to only have two shots and to have watched robz with your last shot and to not want to tell us what you saw N1 is that you are scum. Each of those things can individually be explained, but as a group, I don't see how they can.
I don't talk about yuma-ash because there is very little interaction between you two. Yeah, I still want to lynch you because scum don't always interact with each other and there are other things to base scumreads on. more to come soon.
Ahoppy have you continued to update your voting data? Anything useful now that we are 2 days removed from it and know 1 scum player?I've been busy, hopefully I'll catch that up tonight
Ahoppy have you continued to update your voting data? Anything useful now that we are 2 days removed from it and know 1 scum player?I've been busy, hopefully I'll catch that up tonight
Again. This seems like only something scum would know...unless you're claiming something else....How could you possibly know this?xeiron, what do you think about other people, particularly yuma? also, what do you have to say about the case presented against you?
I think Yuma is town, because I think he was targeted with the night kill last night.
I think Xeiron should claim.I second that and your intent to hammer
after xeiron claims, please don't hammer right away, at least not until everyone has posted. We have a ton of time.I agree with this to an extent, but we also forget stuff that has been going on / get less involved in this game as time passes. I would definitely prefer to keep a solid tempo going rather than wait too much.
also, if we lynch xeiron and he flips town, we aren't in too bad shape. I know I'm town, and have big big townreads on SB and Ahoppy. That means that if xeiron is town too then the scum are all in yuma-eevee-mm. an Eevee-MM scumteam makes little sense because of how aggressively eevee was persuing a MM lynch. It really did not look like bussing to me. That means if xeiron is town, I'm like 90% sure Yuma is scum. So potentially after lynching xeiron and yuma we just have to figure out which of eevee and mail-mi is scum! :DYyeah I'm not loving this post.
And if xeiron is scum, we're in even better shape, with two shots to find 1 scum in yuma-eevee-mm
that's assuming liopoil, SB, and ahoppy are all town, which is a big assumption, especially from the perspective from somebody who isn't me.
Once again I find myself agreeing with the friendly pokemon. I really wonder why every time we are about to lynch you panic lio. I guess that's just your personality. But it is noticeable. "Wait wait wait......after xeiron claims, please don't hammer right away, at least not until everyone has posted. We have a ton of time.I agree with this to an extent, but we also forget stuff that has been going on / get less involved in this game as time passes. I would definitely prefer to keep a solid tempo going rather than wait too much.
I think Xeiron should claim.
That's.. a bit lackluster. I'm fine with a hammer.
His data ain't going to save you....That's.. a bit lackluster. I'm fine with a hammer.
What about waiting for ahoppy's data?
I am interested in whether we can find something there.
That's.. a bit lackluster. I'm fine with a hammer.
only time xeiron was lynched was in the currently ongoing RMM game. He was a big candidate for a lynch in NMIII, and might have been lynched if the game continued. He was scum there.
Vote: Xeiron
Vote: Xeiron
Too bad, I am town.
Last prediction...
Eevee is scum together with either Liopoil or yuma.
Like Ahoppy, I'm struggling. Scum seems to be playing a GREAT game, it could be any of you grrrrrr.Agreed. This is not going the way I'd hoped! Certainly not like the last blitz!
I feel like eevee hasn't been around that much, which puts him up there on my scummy list too. But why should I trust your list if we all have you at the top of our lists too?Because if you lynch me scum wins.
First of all: I told you so.That he knew this immediately is troubling. Obviously thinking about it....probably counting the hours till scum win...
Next: we're in lylo guys, no voting!
Shouldn't town be just as worried about it? It doesn't feel scummy to me.First of all: I told you so.That he knew this immediately is troubling. Obviously thinking about it....probably counting the hours till scum win...
Next: we're in lylo guys, no voting!
Sorry sever, I know I've been least active... but I just didn't feel like I remembered many substantial posts from you. I may be wrong. But I do remember I had an FoS on you earlier. But yes, I also haven't liked mail-mi the whole game. He has been quite suspicious. Can you remind me of your D2 case on him?Heh, I wish this wasn't 70 pages long, digging back is really painful.
OKay guys really, Im just not into this game, I won't be a help to town later, and I'm not important. I do not care if i am the lynch, however i have learned from my mistake in bankers and will not self hammmer.
Yeah, and the first people to turn, if I'm not mistaken and I very well may be, were nkirbit and ashersky. Ashersky looks suspicious if mail-mi is scum, but I really hate calling pairs. My suspicion on mail-mi is totally independent and is not connected to ashersky at all , but I think that interaction is worth noting. Thinking about it more, I guess it actually was mostly the Robz claim getting all the attention and then Robz preferring sudgy though, so that was maybe less informational than I hoped.
Okay, rereading mail-mi thoroughly. We ran up three wagons day 1 and two of them already flipped town while the mail-mi wagon just mysteriously disappeared, so I think this is very much in order.This was the case early day 2.
I started rereading mail-mi's 51 posts(43 after game start) and summarizing his opinions with bulletpoints, but soon realized it is really pointless, his posts are so short you can all reread him yourself. I really encourage everyone to do that actually, as I think he is a key player for today because of yesterdays wagons.
The post count is really misleading, as most of his posts are really short and not about this game at all. The stances he commited to were supporting the Robz lynch, then supporting the sudgy lynch (both town) and now going after mcmc and then liopoil today. Really seems he is fine with whatever lynch the town is sailing towards. I think him flipping scum would make mcmc-liopoil likely town on town. Unless I missed something, the only players mail-mi expressed townreads on were MGP and by extension spiritbears, as he thought that their fight was town on town. He hasn't even mentioned most of the players.
Sorry sever, I know I've been least active... but I just didn't feel like I remembered many substantial posts from you. I may be wrong. But I do remember I had an FoS on you earlier. But yes, I also haven't liked mail-mi the whole game. He has been quite suspicious. Can you remind me of your D2 case on him?I didn't mean to imply your activity level hasn't been sufficient! I think we are on the verge of being an unwelcoming community for newer guys due to demanding such high commitment, so I don't want you to feel like you haven't been participating enough, you surely have.
And where is Robz???
I recall a town read on Ahoppy from earlier, butI don't remember why it was, which is a good indication that his presence today has been lacking this far.
Ahoppy, I don't know if you are really the persothink can call me out for not being active enough. :)Well, I'm pretty damn sure I was in favor of the x lynch right away, I'm not sure how that's relevant since we all did I tgink, but you're right, we should put mai under the microscope....hindsigt's a bitch....
No really, I don't actually think post counts really indicate alignment when everyone is relatively involved like here. It IS summer time, and I feel we've been progressing ok all the time.
I guess I should have pushed harder for my mail-mi case earlier, the ash-mcmc shenanigans kind of distracted me from that. Should maybe read back to who started pushing the xeiron lynch immediately yesterday? I feel that was a bit of a settle from me, I thought he was scummy but I was SUPER convinced my mail-mi read was correct already in day 2.
Can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Do you have a way to explain your lurkiness/lack of posts with much meaning besides that it is your play style? What do you think of eevee?
School, then summer vacationing. Also, my siblings use the computer, so mostly I'm on mobile.Can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Do you have a way to explain your lurkiness/lack of posts with much meaning besides that it is your play style? What do you think of eevee?
I can definitely relate to those. Looking forward to thoughts on eevee. Also, while you're at it, possibly thoughts on yuma? Or lio's Yuma caseSchool, then summer vacationing. Also, my siblings use the computer, so mostly I'm on mobile.Can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Do you have a way to explain your lurkiness/lack of posts with much meaning besides that it is your play style? What do you think of eevee?
I'll answer the second when I'm on a computer and after sleeps.
Can you give me a quick rundown for how this mass claim will work?Everyone will claim their role. The upside is town will have more information to analyze, the downside that scum can make more informed killing decision at night.
Sorry, but I've seen you post more in-depth on other threads during this time. That doesn't answer for your "I'm just not that into this game" statement...School, then summer vacationing. Also, my siblings use the computer, so mostly I'm on mobile.Can I have some questions to answer to prove I'm not scum?Do you have a way to explain your lurkiness/lack of posts with much meaning besides that it is your play style? What do you think of eevee?
I'll answer the second when I'm on a computer and after sleeps.
I'm reeeeally not sure about this, but I've been thinking and I think a massclaim could be in our best interest. I would want to go last myself, I think it could be VERY good for us. Like, I'm starting to realize we might actually be pretty much a lock if there is just one scum left and in a pretty good position in the more likely scenario of there still being two.I don't get this....how are you going to catch the lie that we aren't able to??
I guess it isn't super terrible if I don't get to go last, but I could potentially catch scum lying if they were made to claim before me.
Well, obviously I'm going to have something to claim indeed. I want to go last in the hopes of cornering a scum in a lie, but more on that after the claim to not help them.Couldn't you also be scum and pretending to corner scum in a lie when you're really cornering town?
Of course he could be....everyone could be lying. We just have to root out the liesWell, obviously I'm going to have something to claim indeed. I want to go last in the hopes of cornering a scum in a lie, but more on that after the claim to not help them.Couldn't you also be scum and pretending to corner scum in a lie when you're really cornering town?
Sigh... this is why I don't like this predicament... suspecting everyone...Yes it is difficult. But I see no reason to abandon reads we have on people just because everyone could be lying. For instance, I'm more likely to believe some of you that I have town reads on and less likely to believe others.
So start claiming. Or are you waiting on Yuma to show up?I think start. If Yuma refuses to claim it would be an anti-town move imo
Do we respond to the claim before the next claim or no? Sorry, just being a newbie :PThere is not much to analyze about a vt claim, especially not before we get the bigger picture. Just go on and claim!
First of all: I told you so.
With this case, I am now not so hesitant to lynch xeiron, but I will definitely not bechammering.
hmm, okay, I guess that's fine. What do you think about Yuma? Can you think of a reason that a town player might claim 2-shot watcher and -seemingly- waste his last shot N2? and also claim for -seemingly- no reason?
I am not... Just because he is in another game doesn't mean you can't talk about him in this game...
I mean... you can't say xeiron did this in this game and in RMM6 and compare the two. But you can go back, bring up specific posts and say "xeiron did this and I find it townie" w/o saying that it has anything to do with RMM6.
Saying "RMM6 stuff can't say anything more" is way too easy of an out and can easily be a way for scum to justify a read w/o putting any effort into it.
I kindof thought Is get the ax last night. But I wonder if scum isn't trying to throw us off by taking lio...knowing we would immediately point the finger at Yuma.
I agree with the dead liopoil, we have a very good chance of hitting scum with Yuma.
Because who else is there to suspect? Eevee? Ahops and SB have been very townie.I kindof thought Is get the ax last night. But I wonder if scum isn't trying to throw us off by taking lio...knowing we would immediately point the finger at Yuma.
I applaud you--if you are indeed town--for not immediately pointing the finger at me. That is obviously what mafia was trying to do.
As an example:I agree with the dead liopoil, we have a very good chance of hitting scum with Yuma.
But where the hell has yuma been?!?! Completely absent since the night. Also, I think he not online during the night we spent waiting for scum to make thier kill. I eat he'd for mai, and he was online as eas eevee so probably they weren't holding it up....
I'll be somewhat limited starting saturday evening through tuesday... and then I am back on my 10 hour on schedule for 7 days. we are tending three nephews so I am not sure about intertet while we are there.
And I agree with SB: where the heck is Yuma.
I'm begining to think Yuma may be the right move here...
If he was watching, why no info on xerion?...he could have cleared him. The only real info he has helped us at all with (and it was weasly to say the least) was "ash may not be actually be a watcher too"....if he's a power roll, I think he's been using it for the scum team.
And one more thing....
I have been his biggest supporter in this game...maybe that explains why I was left alive.
I think the order should be mailmi-ahoppy-spirit-yuma with targets-myself.
Ok Yuma
For the first part, night seemed to drag on...with only a few players left. During the night I noticed mai and eevee posting in other threads so it looked like it probably wasn't them holding it up. Your Vla (which I appologize for missing, I do watch that thread and just missed it...sorry) could explain the long night.
For the second part you wanted me to clarify..... I think it's pretty clear, I am wondering how if you're a town PR, why we didn't get any better info from you....you withheld, and I didn't push it. But now I think we have to....we need more info and you seem to have it. (As does eevee)...
Ok
I think I may believe you
But why are you still withholding when a miskynch kills us. Do you object to a mai lynch? I assume not
But what about eevee?
Yuma. How about getting your vote down now before you leave?
Consider this intent to vote mai
Yuma. How about getting your vote down now before you leave?No no no! Then scum!yuma and Eevee can come in and quick hammer me! No no no!
Consider this intent to vote mai
Look look, I know I've looked scummy, you guys have proved it to me. But can we at least wait til I can get on an actual computer to kill me? And what's the case on me? Sheeping and lurking? Please give me or repost an actual case that isn't from D1.You have a pulse!
That's what I suspected. This definitely explains Yuma's strange claims and liopoil's suspicions. The only other possible explanation is that both eevee and Yuma are scum, which I kind of doubt. And I agree, I think mail-mi is the best lynch option.If eevee and yuma are a scumteam and we miskynch, they deserve to win....seems unlikely to me though.
But you also have to think, I think we have 2 scum yet to find... which would mean both you (spiritbears) and mail-mi are scum... and you've seemed so Towny all game. And eevee seemed to be pretty eager to get him and Yuma free passes, saying they're both IC..How else do you explain the missing kill night 3?
Maybe they no killed to explain this very thing?But you also have to think, I think we have 2 scum yet to find... which would mean both you (spiritbears) and mail-mi are scum... and you've seemed so Towny all game. And eevee seemed to be pretty eager to get him and Yuma free passes, saying they're both IC..How else do you explain the missing kill night 3?
I really doubt scum would no-lynch. Yuma/eevee are either whst they say they are or they are the best scum team ever....How could I counter it? Like I said, I'm a VT.
Mai---any counter to this claim?? You seem to be on very thin ice.....
Good luck. I'm at work and should stop posting from my phone. I'll post later today/tonight.I really doubt scum would no-lynch. Yuma/eevee are either whst they say they are or they are the best scum team ever....How could I counter it? Like I said, I'm a VT.
Mai---any counter to this claim?? You seem to be on very thin ice.....
What I'm going to do is try to convince you and Ahops that they're wrong.
Who is they in this sentence?I really doubt scum would no-lynch. Yuma/eevee are either whst they say they are or they are the best scum team ever....How could I counter it? Like I said, I'm a VT.
Mai---any counter to this claim?? You seem to be on very thin ice.....
What I'm going to do is try to convince you and Ahops that they're wrong.
I believe you. I think mail-mi is scum, especially if he is trying to prove you wrong. It would be easier to try to convince everyone that SB and I are scum. But if SB is his partner, he wouldn't want to do that. So he's going for you two. I say lynch him.I'm not sure I understand this stuff about me. I'm obviously not mai's partner..am willing to vote him. ~
Toi agent trying ti blâme his escape on me are you?!This post really troubles me. Up until this point I have seen spiritbears as the biggest town read. The whole game everyone has been assuming 3 scum. With good reason: 3 PM's to start, fits with flavor (I think, haven't seen the movie), emphasis on partners (with an s), liopoils posts he pulled up from a while ago, and now the power of the towns PRs. And all of a sudden spirit bears goes all "I'm convinced we have 2 scum guys". Not buying it. Second of all, the only way he could be so convinced that I am town is if he is scum. I still think mai is scum, but I'm also ready to vote spirit bears after this too. Has anyone entertained the idea of one scum in eevee/ Yuma and one off? I bet it's possible, but I haven't thought through how that would work out
I have had a scum read on mai all game...
I think Ahoppy is town. In fact the only thing I'm sure about is ahop is town with me. Either we lynch mai and win, or it's a mislynch and you and yuma are scum and win. I think it's the first one...
I'm ready to cote mai if there's no objections,,, ,
I swear, this is going to be my last post while I'm at work, but ugh, this game just got so much more interesting :)You are totally misquoting me...and trying to make me look scummy...something scum does for sure in this situation. I said I was convinced you were town. Now I'm not so sure.Toi agent trying ti blâme his escape on me are you?!This post really troubles me. Up until this point I have seen spiritbears as the biggest town read. The whole game everyone has been assuming 3 scum. With good reason: 3 PM's to start, fits with flavor (I think, haven't seen the movie), emphasis on partners (with an s), liopoils posts he pulled up from a while ago, and now the power of the towns PRs. And all of a sudden spirit bears goes all "I'm convinced we have 2 scum guys". Not buying it. Second of all, the only way he could be so convinced that I am town is if he is scum. I still think mai is scum, but I'm also ready to vote spirit bears after this too. Has anyone entertained the idea of one scum in eevee/ Yuma and one off? I bet it's possible, but I haven't thought through how that would work out
I have had a scum read on mai all game...
I think Ahoppy is town. In fact the only thing I'm sure about is ahop is town with me. Either we lynch mai and win, or it's a mislynch and you and yuma are scum and win. I think it's the first one...
I'm ready to cote mai if there's no objections,,, ,
Besides: now that we know we have a doctor, if we mislynch is it still a loss if the doc is still around?
Where did I misquote?"I'm convinced we have two scum guys"
If there are two more scum is almost certainly the two that have claimed power rolls. I'm saying I think we just have one scum left. But if it's two it's probably eevee +__Yuma. I don't think that's right so I am in favor if mai lynch. As is Yuma btw...Happy? You say it here. One scum left.
Are you opposed to it eevee?
This big flip makes me wonder about you....
That is a damn far cry from the way you twisted it....If there are two more scum is almost certainly the two that have claimed power rolls. I'm saying I think we just have one scum left. But if it's two it's probably eevee +__Yuma. I don't think that's right so I am in favor if mai lynch. As is Yuma btw...Happy? You say it here. One scum left.
Are you opposed to it eevee?
This big flip makes me wonder about you....
I don't get all the finger pointing at me today. And ahopp you're still haven't backed off your misquote of me.Look, the fact that everyone only expressed townreads on you all game is very rare, it just doesn't happen. I think that it's very natural townies start looking at all the possibilities here. It's very hard!
N3 no kill just... Argh! If its Yuma-Eevee then you deserve the ein. But with this recent spout of posts I see Ahops and SB trying to separate themselves too much.The case is mostly your disinterested play...all game. For me your post where you say you don't really want to play was scummy. When you do post it hasn't been anything that really helps town. That's whst I see the case as. And yes you have narrowly escaped all game. That many of us can't be all wrong.
BTW you still have yet to post/repost a case on me.
Well, you are.N3 no kill just... Argh! If its Yuma-Eevee then you deserve the ein. But with this recent spout of posts I see Ahops and SB trying to separate themselves too much.The case is mostly your disinterested play...all game. For me your post where you say you don't really want to play was scummy. When you do post it hasn't been anything that really helps town. That's whst I see the case as. And yes you have narrowly escaped all game. That many of us can't be all wrong.
BTW you still have yet to post/repost a case on me.
I'm still not sure how I twisted it. Right now I feel like you're the one twisting my words. All I'm saying is everyone all game has said 3 scum, now you somehow think there were ever only two (unless I'm understanding you wrong). Please explain what makes you think that. I didn't mean to misquote you, I may have just read wrong. Please forgive me.That is a damn far cry from the way you twisted it....If there are two more scum is almost certainly the two that have claimed power rolls. I'm saying I think we just have one scum left. But if it's two it's probably eevee +__Yuma. I don't think that's right so I am in favor if mai lynch. As is Yuma btw...Happy? You say it here. One scum left.
Are you opposed to it eevee?
This big flip makes me wonder about you....
Comeon mai. I restated the case...is this the best you can do? It's going to get you lynched. (Hopefully correctly)Well, you are.N3 no kill just... Argh! If its Yuma-Eevee then you deserve the ein. But with this recent spout of posts I see Ahops and SB trying to separate themselves too much.The case is mostly your disinterested play...all game. For me your post where you say you don't really want to play was scummy. When you do post it hasn't been anything that really helps town. That's whst I see the case as. And yes you have narrowly escaped all game. That many of us can't be all wrong.
BTW you still have yet to post/repost a case on me.
TFT only on mobile and didnt have time. Later.Comeon mai. I restated the case...is this the best you can do? It's going to get you lynched. (Hopefully correctly)Well, you are.N3 no kill just... Argh! If its Yuma-Eevee then you deserve the ein. But with this recent spout of posts I see Ahops and SB trying to separate themselves too much.The case is mostly your disinterested play...all game. For me your post where you say you don't really want to play was scummy. When you do post it hasn't been anything that really helps town. That's whst I see the case as. And yes you have narrowly escaped all game. That many of us can't be all wrong.
BTW you still have yet to post/repost a case on me.
Look, you tried to make sound scummy for for speculating about whether or not there were two scum in the game...something I believe Yuma acknowleged first. You put in quotes and said I eas "CERTAIN" there where just two scum in the game...I have never been certain of that. I said it's a possibility. And it is.I'm sorry I used "certain". I wasn't trying to exaggerate, but I guess that's what happened in my head. I was on mobile and at work, so I didn't go over what I was saying carefully or what you said carefully. When you say you are certain of me being town however, when you also say that if there are two scum left, it's probably yuma+eevee. Which then tells me you are certain it is only one scum, because if you are certain that you are town, certain that I am town, then you must be certain that there is one scum, if you're assuming that if one of yuma+eevee are scum, then both are. So yes, I interpreted it as you being certain there is only one scum left. Sorry if that isn't what you really meant. But you still have not really answered my question: What makes you so sure that there really is only one scum left?
The only thing I said i was certain about was you being town....something I now have to reconsider. Bummer
Okay, I think this went well.
I'm a doctor.
Night 1 I protected Robz. (I believe yuma saw me this night and that's why he was so weird about claiming all the time, he suspected I must be something town-aligned and didn't want to out me)
Okay Ahoppy's answer was exactly the kind I was looking for (thanks!), wish spirit and mailm-mi get something similar in when they get there.
And obviously super interested in hearing what yuma thinks about all this.
Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?If you've been following me eevee you'd know that's not a departure....I've been on mai's case almost all game..
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Ive been too though, why is he still alive! I guess it's because he is mafia then. I don't know.Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?If you've been following me eevee you'd know that's not a departure....I've been on mai's case almost all game..
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?If you've been following me eevee you'd know that's not a departure....I've been on mai's case almost all game..
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
I think all the worry is justified! This is basically the lynch that decides the game, for one way or another. I really really want to get it right.Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Somewhat. I mean I need to take the whole game as a big picture and not just today... I mean today's info has merit, but I need it in context of the whole. So somewhat worrying, but I am not sure yet if that worry is justified.
Meh I keep being sure and then secondguessing myself again like crazy. I'm leaning towards obvious being obvious and mail-mi being scum now.
Going once, going twice?
Hammer right?Yea, that's 3 out of 5, it's enough.
Come on already. You guys are going to give me a seizure!
Ack!!!!Come on already. You guys are going to give me a seizure!
alas our good mods do not appear to be online. Raerae (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1663) was on earlier this afternoon. As was Shraeye (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=368). Kooshie (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1905) was last on this morning... so who knows when they will be here to tell us the news!
I leave you with this: If xeiron flips town and I am NKed, pleasepleaseplease lynch Yuma for me. Seriously, if you don't, and Yuma is scum, I will not be happy.I am not happy.
the only way I can fathom Yuma being town is if he is a full watcher and lied to survive the night. I have no problems outing him like this because that way I won't have to worry about mislynching him tommorow if he dies.>:( >:( >:(
Please remember this tommorow if I die: Yuma is obvscum.
Final Vote CountTypos now fixed
Mail-mi: yuma, Eevee, spiritbears
Not voting: mail-mi, AHoppy
With 5 players alive, it took 3 to lynch
I leave you with this: If xeiron flips town and I am NKed, pleasepleaseplease lynch Yuma for me. Seriously, if you don't, and Yuma is scum, I will not be happy.I am not happy.
>:( >:( >:(the only way I can fathom Yuma being town is if he is a full watcher and lied to survive the night. I have no problems outing him like this because that way I won't have to worry about mislynching him tommorow if he dies.>:( >:( >:(
Please remember this tommorow if I die: Yuma is obvscum.
more unhappy thoughts of mine: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KzPKQ9jNG6ks
oh man. Come on. So obvious.
Ugh. The hint should have been that eevee didn't protect robz night 3. That was the biggest thin I sawDang. I didn't see that.
Ugh. The hint should have been that eevee didn't protect robz night 3. That was the biggest thin I saw
Whst was with the no-kill???
Meh I keep being sure and then secondguessing myself again like crazy. I'm leaning towards obvious being obvious and mail-mi being scum now.
Whst was with the no-kill???
Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Somewhat. I mean I need to take the whole game as a big picture and not just today... I mean today's info has merit, but I need it in context of the whole. So somewhat worrying, but I am not sure yet if that worry is justified.
"I didn't know either of my scum mates until night1 and eevee didn't know I was on the team either. Nor did ash know who chose him..."
oh man. That's crazy.
Yuma, you don't think the things I pointed out about spiritbears's and Ahoppy's behaviour are worrisome signs?
Both seem a little too happy to lynch mail-mi?
Somewhat. I mean I need to take the whole game as a big picture and not just today... I mean today's info has merit, but I need it in context of the whole. So somewhat worrying, but I am not sure yet if that worry is justified.
Things people say read so differently once you know they are scum...
Meh I keep being sure and then secondguessing myself again like crazy. I'm leaning towards obvious being obvious and mail-mi being scum now.
I am right there with you on that one.
And lio... the other option was to NK spiritbears and then try to frame you using my "watcher" power. But that was a bit riskier.exactly. That's why no kill was best, and shouldn't have given eevee credibility.
And really lio... I think the correct play in that situation as a watcher is to lie about being a 2-shot watcher to help avoid the NK and to try to get behind the mafia. But I have probably ruined that move for the rest of f.ds mafia games....
You guys were great. No doubt. Lio was the only one saying you were obviscum. Which I discounted due to my town read on you Yuma....sometimes youngest something wrong early and you can't get away from it. I just didn't want to see you as scumWhst was with the no-kill???
We knew we needed to get the idea of a doc out there. And the no kill didn't really hurt us as the correct play that next day if we had killed would have been to no lynch, so we didn't really lose a kill.
And lio... the other option was to NK spiritbears and then try to frame you using my "watcher" power. But that was a bit riskier.
And really lio... I think the correct play in that situation as a watcher is to lie about being a 2-shot watcher to help avoid the NK and to try to get behind the mafia. But I have probably ruined that move for the rest of f.ds mafia games....
Argh! I knew it i knew it i knew it!!!!! Gg scum.Sorry Mai. I blew it. Blame me definitely.
Man that was painful.
Come join my game :D
And lio... the other option was to NK spiritbears and then try to frame you using my "watcher" power. But that was a bit riskier.exactly. That's why no kill was best, and shouldn't have given eevee credibility.
And really lio... I think the correct play in that situation as a watcher is to lie about being a 2-shot watcher to help avoid the NK and to try to get behind the mafia. But I have probably ruined that move for the rest of f.ds mafia games....
No it is not. why? because scum would see that you are obviously lying. Scum would HAVE to know that you couldn't be a 2-shot watcher. It's impossible, because no way would you watch robz. Scum would see straight through that. And more importantly, there is no way that town claims watcher D2 like you did. Nothing. that was why you were obvscum.
Yeah I almost felt bad at this point.Meh I keep being sure and then secondguessing myself again like crazy. I'm leaning towards obvious being obvious and mail-mi being scum now.
I am right there with you on that one.
Bad pokemonYeah I almost felt bad at this point.Meh I keep being sure and then secondguessing myself again like crazy. I'm leaning towards obvious being obvious and mail-mi being scum now.
I am right there with you on that one.
this is the problem with closed setups I think. Scum will always fakeclaim.
Yeah, bus driver is fine. Probably not the best idea in a closed set-up though. I mean, if you had given a cop a false positive in that game town would have insta-lost.
Sorry ya'll missed out on all the sweet end game flavor I had planned. Here's some QT's as consolation.
MOD: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/M47UQQU4ECX
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KzPKQ9jNG6ks
Plastics: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/FhwRneNXGie
Sorry ya'll missed out on all the sweet end game flavor I had planned. Here's some QT's as consolation.
MOD: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/M47UQQU4ECX
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KzPKQ9jNG6ks
Plastics: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/FhwRneNXGie
I still want the flavor... unless it will be like a massive amount of work for you. But if it is just lying around, I would love to see it. Really fun flavor all around!
Sorry ya'll missed out on all the sweet end game flavor I had planned. Here's some QT's as consolation.
MOD: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/M47UQQU4ECX
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KzPKQ9jNG6ks
Plastics: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/FhwRneNXGie
I still want the flavor... unless it will be like a massive amount of work for you. But if it is just lying around, I would love to see it. Really fun flavor all around!
Naw, we'll do a MG2 and start the game with it. (See? Drawing you in already!)
Sorry ya'll missed out on all the sweet end game flavor I had planned. Here's some QT's as consolation.
MOD: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/M47UQQU4ECX
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/KzPKQ9jNG6ks
Plastics: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/FhwRneNXGie
I still want the flavor... unless it will be like a massive amount of work for you. But if it is just lying around, I would love to see it. Really fun flavor all around!
Naw, we'll do a MG2 and start the game with it. (See? Drawing you in already!)
auto-in! But please don't base it of Mean Girls 2 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1679235/)!
This is so good I'm reposting and bolding.
This is so good I'm reposting and bolding. Go forth and spread the good word, friends.
Eevee's #1763 "Heh, I wish this wasn't 70 pages long, digging back is really painful."
Let it be known that there is such a thing as overtalking. And it should be considered at least as scummy as this lurking thing everybody is up in arms about. When did post counts become a permanent fixture of a game?? I don't give one toodle how many posts somebody is making, as long as they are contributing and also not flooding the topic with noise.
I feel like reading that scum QT is a crash course in how to be scum.
I totally agree, been saying this for ages.I feel like reading that scum QT is a crash course in how to be scum.
If I say take away anything it is thus: the scum team that talks together wins together. High posts in the scum speccy often corresponds with a win.
Man, so glad I can finally post again. :)
Awesome game guys, best scum team ever.
Town made a huge mistake on the last day, by not bringing in the idea that scum picked their own team when trying to call the final 2 scum in the group of AHoppy, spirit, mail-mi, Eevee, yuma. Like, there is literally no way that at least one of Eevee/yuma is not picked, and instead somebody picks a team like AHoppy/mail-mi.Well I thought mai would be a good pick.
Man, so glad I can finally post again. :)
Awesome game guys, best scum team ever.
Hooray! But really. We certainly made some mistakes along the way, but in the end I really, really enjoyed this game.
I still can't fully believe you decided to pull off that claim. I'll be honest I was a little annoyed because I had been working so hard that day to build up and get support for a xeiron mislynch... and then you had to come in and completely distract us.
What did you think of eevee's and my play after you died? Any comments?
Town made a huge mistake on the last day, by not bringing in the idea that scum picked their own team when trying to call the final 2 scum in the group of AHoppy, spirit, mail-mi, Eevee, yuma. Like, there is literally no way that at least one of Eevee/yuma is not picked, and instead somebody picks a team like AHoppy/mail-mi.
I still can't fully believe you decided to pull off that claim. I'll be honest I was a little annoyed because I had been working so hard that day to build up and get support for a xeiron mislynch... and then you had to come in and completely distract us.
PS:
Final vote count.
1. Yuma - 212
2. Ashersky - 285
3. mail-mi - 92
4. Eevee - 193
5. liopoil - 259
6. Robz888 - 93
7. nkirbit - 111
8. AHoppy - 77
9. xeiron - 40
10. mcmcsalot - 138
11. spiritbears - 244
12. sudgy - 79
and to answer why vote counts have become a thing... well I am doing them for stat keeping purposes... at some point I would like to get some data on posts ultimately with the intent of showing that posting habits really aren't all that indicative of alignement. As for why I post them in thread... 1. it is easier to access afterward that a bunch of random PMs sent to myself and 2. I think they are somewhat useful to the game... I rarely use them as scumminess factors in the games I am in, but more as a way for people to see where they are content wise. It is never intended as a shaming mechanism, just sometimes an opportunity to see where you are in relation to your fellow players
Also, I planted a HUGE scumslip the day I was lynched that literally no one picked up on.
It was right when yuma signed off after unvoting and I was hoping you were still reading and would call me on it. I thought it would have been great, given my propensity for calling scum slips.
Also, I want to hear from Robz. He believed me until the end. Thanks man. And sorry.
you were planning to kill someone else and frame me? Oh man, that would've been FUN! :D
...and then not fun at all once I got lynched...
Ooh its hard to choose between Eevee or Yuma. IT should definitely be one of those two, though.,I would say Yuma...he was too damn trickery! But I would also consider Ash's performance top notch and indispensible....threw us off big time
From my point of view, it's ash. He did so much day one: he heavily pushed the idea that there wouldn't be three vets on scum team to the point of everyone agreeing to it, which helped day 5. He was the biggest voice in pushing me to lynch sudgy, without being obvious about it. His claim got mcmc and set up the xeiron mislynch very well due to its timing. Yuma and eevee did great the last day, but ash did a ton of work getting them to that position.Yes agree with this so much
Question: I know MVP stands for most valuable player, is that literally what it means? As in, are we nominating who we thought played the best game, or who contributed the most to their faction's victory, or who was the most valuable player to their faction? all are very similar, but could have slight nuances.
I'm thinking Eevee because he evaded my suspicion completely until the last day and had the most plausible claim of the three I thought. He wasn't as high-profile I guess as ash or yuma, but I think had the biggest impact. Ashersky had a big impact, twisting the game in a new direction, I'm just not sure how much it helped scum.
Question: I know MVP stands for most valuable player, is that literally what it means? As in, are we nominating who we thought played the best game, or who contributed the most to their faction's victory, or who was the most valuable player to their faction? all are very similar, but could have slight nuances.
I'm thinking Eevee because he evaded my suspicion completely until the last day and had the most plausible claim of the three I thought. He wasn't as high-profile I guess as ash or yuma, but I think had the biggest impact. Ashersky had a big impact, twisting the game in a new direction, I'm just not sure how much it helped scum.
The definition of "player who played the best game" is player who "most advanced his team's win con." Obviously, if his team actually won, that is worth a lot, but occasionally someone not from the winning faction deserves MVP.
These are not always easy calls, especially for scum, since it's so often a team effort.