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[Captain_Frisk]

Grrr.

I have 2 options.

Either the Asher + Qvist newbie scum pair did something crazy (letting the cop activate)

OR

Crafty scum voltgloss (and member of my scummy 5!) let the cop through with the nefarious goal of outing the PRs so that they wouldn't have to have switch craziness for the rest of the game.

I reread Asher last night, and if he's been scumteam tunnelling Voltgloss, its been EPIC.

[Captain_Frisk]

So - why was Yuma killed? 

Simple answer: because he was going to vote for Qvist and I had a chance of going either way.

Crafty answer: because after stating that he would vote Qvist - being left alive would make him think that Qvist was town.

[Captain_Frisk]

The whole problem with this damn game is that Qvist was crazy tunnelling me day 1 and day 2, and mysteriously backed off on day 3 - well in advance of volt's plan.

[Voltgloss]

Either the Asher + Qvist newbie scum pair did something crazy (letting the cop activate)

I still don't think they thought this was so crazy.  Remember, ash loves breadcrumbs.  This is the guy who breadcrumbed VT as scum.  Of course he's going to be looking out for other power roles to breadcrumb - and Eevee's behavior Day 2 could easily be construed as breadcrumbing Cop.

And if they concluded that, they'd expect the Doctor to think the same; and then they HAVE to switch off the Doc and try to kill the suspected Cop, otherwise they're ALREADY doomed via Follow-the-Cop.

[Voltgloss]

The whole problem with this damn game is that Qvist was crazy tunnelling me day 1 and day 2, and mysteriously backed off on day 3 - well in advance of volt's plan.

This is explained equally well by "Cop Switch Qvist was setting up to fakeclaim Cop" as it is by "Qvist is actually the Cop." 

[Voltgloss]

Either the Asher + Qvist newbie scum pair did something crazy (letting the cop activate)

I still don't think they thought this was so crazy.  Remember, ash loves breadcrumbs.  This is the guy who breadcrumbed VT as scum.  Of course he's going to be looking out for other power roles to breadcrumb - and Eevee's behavior Day 2 could easily be construed as breadcrumbing Cop.

And if they concluded that, they'd expect the Doctor to think the same; and then they HAVE to switch off the Doc and try to kill the suspected Cop, otherwise they're ALREADY doomed via Follow-the-Cop.

Actually, wait, this doesn't explain why they simply didn't kill Munch (who was the clear frontrunner for being Doctor) and switch off the Cop.  Hmm.

[Captain_Frisk]

The whole problem with this damn game is that Qvist was crazy tunnelling me day 1 and day 2, and mysteriously backed off on day 3 - well in advance of volt's plan.

This is explained equally well by "Cop Switch Qvist was setting up to fakeclaim Cop" as it is by "Qvist is actually the Cop."

Why not just fake claim cop and say you were blocked?

[Insomniac]

I confirm that NO ONE has any information about the setup EXCEPT myself. I have NO mods, nor have I ever. I have had assistance from people not knowing the setup with locking the thread.

Had anyone known the setup they would never have been allowed to place in

[Captain_Frisk]

Either the Asher + Qvist newbie scum pair did something crazy (letting the cop activate)

I still don't think they thought this was so crazy.  Remember, ash loves breadcrumbs.  This is the guy who breadcrumbed VT as scum.  Of course he's going to be looking out for other power roles to breadcrumb - and Eevee's behavior Day 2 could easily be construed as breadcrumbing Cop.

And if they concluded that, they'd expect the Doctor to think the same; and then they HAVE to switch off the Doc and try to kill the suspected Cop, otherwise they're ALREADY doomed via Follow-the-Cop.

Actually, wait, this doesn't explain why they simply didn't kill Munch (who was the clear frontrunner for being Doctor) and switch off the Cop.  Hmm.

Also - qvist was willing to scumbus his buddy when he easily could have just insisted on lynching you because he "knows" your scum.

You however....

[Captain_Frisk]

I confirm that NO ONE has any information about the setup EXCEPT myself. I have NO mods, nor have I ever. I have had assistance from people not knowing the setup with locking the thread.

Had anyone known the setup they would never have been allowed to place in

Thanks

[Voltgloss]

The whole problem with this damn game is that Qvist was crazy tunnelling me day 1 and day 2, and mysteriously backed off on day 3 - well in advance of volt's plan.

This is explained equally well by "Cop Switch Qvist was setting up to fakeclaim Cop" as it is by "Qvist is actually the Cop."

Why not just fake claim cop and say you were blocked?

A few possible reasons:

1) Having a result makes the claim more "verifiable" (a "blocked Cop" fakeclaim is as unverifiable as a Doctor fakeclaim), especially in contrast to a claim that Qvist knew was going to be backed up with a result.
 
2) Claiming to have confirmed Player X as Town could get that player to support you in the "which Cop is real" debate.

3) Claiming to have confirmed Player X as Town could throw suspicion on Player X when you flip scum.

4) In the interest of "lying as little as possible," Qvist knew the Cop wasn't turned off - and so claimed based on that information.

I recall that scum!ash had some comment about the whole "both Cops claim they got results" thing almost immediately in response.  I'll go dig that up.

[Voltgloss]

Also - qvist was willing to scumbus his buddy when he easily could have just insisted on lynching you because he "knows" your scum.

You however....

If Qvist were the real Cop, he could not know for sure whether yuma or ash was scum.  (As I could not.)  So his putting ash at L-1, with my vote able to hammer, risked letting the game end in a scum win if the scumteam was me-yuma.

Would a town Cop risk letting scum do that? 

[Voltgloss]

This is ash's response to our dueling claims.

Given this is all huge, I do have to say that since both of you claim to have gotten a result, my big reason for wanting to not believe Qvist just went away.  Plus, awfully easy for the second claimer to match the first (since Qvist "risked" lying with the result claim first)....man, this is tough.

PPE--And you claim to have targeted the same person!  The claims are exact...

[Voltgloss]

Gonna be away from the thread for an hour or two.

[Captain_Frisk]

I hate knowing that if if I vote if I vote for Qvist - Volt wins either way. 

[Captain_Frisk]

Here's my problem volt:

As scum - qvist could simply not contest your claim.  At night - switch off the doctor, kill you, and everyone is happy.

[Voltgloss]

Here's my problem volt:

As scum - qvist could simply not contest your claim.  At night - switch off the doctor, kill you, and everyone is happy.

Not if I was about to out him or his partner as scum.  Lynch one scum Day 3, and they can't switch off the doctor while also nightkilling.

By claiming my role WITHOUT revealing my investigation result, I forced scum to choose between "do I fakeclaim and create a him-or-me situation" and "do I not fakeclaim, knowing that if he investigated me or my partner, we will lose if I don't fakeclaim."

[Voltgloss]

I hate knowing that if if I vote if I vote for Qvist - Volt wins either way.

...wow, seriously?  Have I played in some way that makes you want me to lose the game, no matter what my alignment?

[Captain_Frisk]

I hate knowing that if if I vote if I vote for Qvist - Volt wins either way.

...wow, seriously?  Have I played in some way that makes you want me to lose the game, no matter what my alignment?

Well, of course I can guarantee your loss as well

The issue is that I can't differentiate your motivation in explaining why qvist must be scum. 

[Voltgloss]

The issue is that I can't differentiate your motivation in explaining why qvist must be scum.

I'm not sure I follow this.  Qvist and I have the same motivation in explaining why the other is scum:  in order for either of us to win, we have to convince you to vote the other guy.

The fact that one of us (me) is town and the other of us (Qvist) is scum doesn't change our motivations.  Our motivation, either way, is to win; and in Lylo with an IC, the only way for us to win is to convince that IC.

[Voltgloss]

Crafty scum voltgloss (and member of my scummy 5!) let the cop through with the nefarious goal of outing the PRs so that they wouldn't have to have switch craziness for the rest of the game.

Frisk, if I were scum and planning to draw out the Cop with a fakeclaim on Day 3 - what do I gain by letting the Cop investigate? 

[Captain_Frisk]

I'd just go back and copy / paste whatever you said about why QVist would let you investigate.

[Voltgloss]

I'd just go back and copy / paste whatever you said about why QVist would let you investigate.

You think I, as scum, would prefer to gamble on Eevee being the Cop rather than switching off the Cop and killing almost-certainly-the-Doctor Munch?

I mean, yes, scum did that.  And from where you sit, that's explainable as either newbie scum Qvist making a mistake, or crafty scum Volt purposely making a "mistake" that you wouldn't think Volt would make.  So I guess this has to be a null point in your analysis.

Which is why I ask you to look at ash's and joth's behavior instead.  Any explanation I give for my own behavior can be met with the "well maybe you did the opposite of what I'd expect because you're crafty" response.  I mean, look, how can I respond to that?  I try to be crafty, I admit it!  I'm crafty regardless of my alignment!   

So look at joth and ash instead.  Does their behavior fit as scumpartners with Qvist, or as scumpartners with me? 

In particular:  Do you think that, if I were scum, joth and ash would have bandwagoned immediately on the yumawagon that I proposed at the start of Day 2, given that we would have had no opportunity to plan such a stratagem ahead of time?

Or do you think it more likely that scum!joth and scum!ash joined a plausible case I started, scum!Qvist expressed reluctance because he was scared to scumhammer a wagon with all of his scumbuddies on it, and then was stuck at being unable to finish the job when all the other townies balked?

[Qvist]

Now it seems that all is in your hands CF.
Another time the hammer was while I was just going offline. No chance to say something, man.
But you made the right decision, CF.

And Voltgloss hesitance to hammer his fellow scum was so obvious.
Please make the right decision.

Vote: Voltgloss

[Qvist]

So - why was Yuma killed? 

Simple answer: because he was going to vote for Qvist and I had a chance of going either way.

Crafty answer: because after stating that he would vote Qvist - being left alive would make him think that Qvist was town.

That what I'm asking myself currently. I mean, yeah, yuma would have probably voted for me. All in all it's still a WIFOM decision, right?