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[nkirbit]

Ok. But I unvoted kooshie

Also, Yuma can you give me your quick case on robz. I can't tell if his "obivote" on me was just humor (how I took it) or a quick dirty scum hit without any reason at all

Why do you want Yuma's case, as opposed to anyone elses?  How do you know Yuma isn't scum?

I think Yuma is probably a safe town read, and I remembered he was on robz early...likely for a good reason
Together with his flip on me that's enough for me to join the wagon
vote:robz

What's your reasoning for this read?  It's not one I share (I'm extremely neutral on Yuma atm)

HE's been pretty active and active with a purpose....scum hunting imo
I haven't seen anything from him I would label as scummy at all.  Are you saying I missed something?

No, I'm not. I was just asking for clarification.

[Eevee]

Ok, I understand. That's very reasonable.

I should really look back into that Robz scumslip-thingy. I was reading from mobile at the time and thought I'd analyze it further when I got back home and maybe saw Robz's defense but it feels it sort of got swept under the rug.

[modestguineapig]

Spiritbears,

why not just pick two people?  That's what I did.  I put like 2 seconds of thought into it.  It seems like you are refusing to do so just because yuma was aggressive.  Yeah, I thought yuma's post came off really aggressive, but I just rolled my eyes and moved on.  Why dig your heels in over something like this?  It seems anti-town. 

I agree with ash that being anti-town does not mean you are scummy, but in a situation where I could vote for someone who might be scum vs. someone who is proven to be anti-town...this early I'm voting for anti-town.
vote: spiritbears.

[Eevee]

I actually disagree with that MGP. Sadly the most blatant anti-towners, especially day 1, are almost always town. Scum doesn't make waves!

And that being said, spiritbears did answer the question. I don't view what he did super-antitown or anything like that.

[liopoil]

Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sense

just noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...

[modestguineapig]

Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view.  I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum. 

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

[spiritbears]

Secondly I know you(spiritbears) know that you are town. The issue is no one else does; so if you are town, you want to help town by helping us know you are town. So cooperating/doing anything that is pro town is a really great way to help town. Hope that makes sense

just noticed this. It sounds like mcmc knows that spiritbears knows he's town. I understand what he means but still...

Yeah. He then followed that up with vote for me.  I don't understand Mc's game here...

[spiritbears]

Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view.  I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum. 

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

Exactly what did I do that was "shady". You are far out on the proverbial limb....

[ashersky]

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum," so expect that response when he's online.  I agree with it, but on D1 we generally have so little to go on.

I think our D1 mafia lynches have generally been based on what the lynched person was saying about others.  (See Kooshie in Bankers Beware or WinterSpartan in Samurai and Ninjas).  I don't think it's been based on stuff like what sb is doing with refusing to answer a question.

[liopoil]

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

again, anti-town is not the same as scummy. We should certainly lynch scummy players. If we don't lynch scummy players who do we lynch? anti-town players, not necessarily. For people we believe to be playing anti-town we have to figure out if the anti-town play is intentional.

Exactly what did I do that was "shady". You are far out on the proverbial limb....

I don't think we was referring to you, just people in general. and by shady he really just meant scummy I think.

[mcmcsalot]

Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view.  I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum. 

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.

vote: modestguineapig

[liopoil]

Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"

What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?

[liopoil]

Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view.  I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum. 

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.

vote: modestguineapig

mcmc, I don't understand what you are saying. MGP just said it's better to lynch a scummy person than a random person. That's true, obviously.

[modestguineapig]

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

This seemed shady to me.  Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people?  Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched.  So it doesn't seem to matter much.

ppe: @mcmc, yeah I mentioned the random lynch because it was thrown around as an idea.  I am saying I would rather lynch anti-town than random.

[spiritbears]

Eevee, I am looking at it from a random-lynch point of view.  I would rather lynch someone who is being shady for no good reason (I guess just to oppose yuma) than a random person who may be scum. 

If we let town members act scummy when they aren't scum, it makes it easier for real scum to coexist with us.  So get rid of the confusion...and lynch anti-town players.

Which is much worse than looking from a whose scum point of view, scum wants a random lynch.

vote: modestguineapig

Yes I thought that statement a little strange. But I dont feel like I have enough info on gp at this point to know whether he's confused town or scumslipping mafia

[ashersky]

Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"

What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?

It means (to me) that you should always try to lynch the player you think is most likely to be mafia, which isn't necessarily the person that is the most "scummy" to you.  I think "lynch mafia, not anti-town" is a better way to put it, but it doesn't sound as good, and isn't necessarily what he means.

As an example, take xieron on D1 of Bankers.  He quick-hammered, which is always a "scummy" move.  Even though Kooshie turned out to be mafia, if xieron had survived N1, he would have taken a lot of heat on D2 from all of us.  In the end, he was town though, so just because he made a scummy move, he wasn't mafia.

[spiritbears]

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

This seemed shady to me.  Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people?  Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched.  So it doesn't seem to matter much.

ppe: @mcmc, yeah I mentioned the random lynch because it was thrown around as an idea.  I am saying I would rather lynch anti-town than random.

Now I'm really beginning to wonder about you.  That is not at all how that went down.  Are you twisting it as scum or just confused.  Fos mgp

[spiritbears]

Annnnnnnnd, exactly WHO "threw out" the "random lynch" idea??
Mgp that's the first I've heard if it.   Scumslip I think

[mcmcsalot]

I understand mgp is saying he would rather lynch anti town than random, but there is no reason to lynch random. Also this is specific because mgp is using the argument to lynch anti town(he voted sb) If he was saying don't lynch random he would not be voting for sb. I think at any time you want to lynch someone you think is mafia, which is better than someone who is anti town. Using the argument anti town is better than random is still detrimental to town(hence mgp being anti town himself by voting as such) though I think mgp put some thought into that and wanted to get a sb lynch to gain traction because he's being anti town and hey, "it's better than random"

[ashersky]

This seemed shady to me.  Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people?  Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched.  So it doesn't seem to matter much.

I think, if you really want to find sb's choice not to participate as a scum move, here's the reasoning.  For town players, we know that saying who we would choose will have no tangible effect if we die*, since we didn't actually pick anyone.  For scum players, they know that if they die, the names they mention will be analyzed to the nth degree.  So townies won't have a problem providing names, and mafia might.

But we all know this, so it seems like bad scum play to refuse to participate.


* I guess, technically, when one of us is NKed, there could be some analysis made on the names we listed as we could possibly be more likely to be killed by someone who we named.

[ashersky]

I understand mgp is saying he would rather lynch anti town than random, but there is no reason to lynch random. Also this is specific because mgp is using the argument to lynch anti town(he voted sb) If he was saying don't lynch random he would not be voting for sb. I think at any time you want to lynch someone you think is mafia, which is better than someone who is anti town. Using the argument anti town is better than random is still detrimental to town(hence mgp being anti town himself by voting as such) though I think mgp put some thought into that and wanted to get a sb lynch to gain traction because he's being anti town and hey, "it's better than random"

mgp is a "she" I believe.

[liopoil]

Eevee's a big supporter of "lynch mafia, not scum,"

What exactly does that mean? scum are mafia. Does that mean like I was saying, that people we think are anti-town people aren't always good lynches?

It means (to me) that you should always try to lynch the player you think is most likely to be mafia, which isn't necessarily the person that is the most "scummy" to you.  I think "lynch mafia, not anti-town" is a better way to put it, but it doesn't sound as good, and isn't necessarily what he means.

As an example, take xieron on D1 of Bankers.  He quick-hammered, which is always a "scummy" move.  Even though Kooshie turned out to be mafia, if xieron had survived N1, he would have taken a lot of heat on D2 from all of us.  In the end, he was town though, so just because he made a scummy move, he wasn't mafia.

I thought that the most scummy person is the person who is most likely to be mafia, just by nature of the term. So scummy means more like anti-town? but it doesn't really matter, I get the point and agree with it.

[ashersky]

Annnnnnnnd, exactly WHO "threw out" the "random lynch" idea??
Mgp that's the first I've heard if it.   Scumslip I think

liopoil mentioned the words "random lynch" when he was discussing the merits of a no lynch, I believe.  I recall responding to it with a resounding "no" while also mentioning the only time we've ever actually used a truly random D1 lynch we hit scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

This seemed shady to me.  Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people?  Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched.  So it doesn't seem to matter much.

ppe: @mcmc, yeah I mentioned the random lynch because it was thrown around as an idea.  I am saying I would rather lynch anti-town than random.

Now I'm really beginning to wonder about you.  That is not at all how that went down.  Are you twisting it as scum or just confused.  Fos mgp

woah, this is a stretch, I usually hate argument saying x is scum because he is misrepresenting info, because hey townies do it all the time to get scum lynched you gotta build a good case which involves embellishment but man that is so not what happened. Spirit was strongly in favor of not answering, he eventually added that he didn't even know and it wouldn't matter.

[liopoil]

what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then.  Nobody thinks we should random lynch.