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[nkirbit]

what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then.  Nobody thinks we should random lynch.

But is this the case if the anti-town is accompanied by a higher chance of actually being a town member (which many people appear to think is true)?  If I think that lynching an anti-town member isn't great if they're less likely to be mafia.

[yuma]

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!
SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!
Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.
SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

This seemed shady to me.  Like I said, instead of digging your heels in over this, why not just chose two random people?  Because I am town, the choices I make won't be that useful to anyone if I get lynched.  So it doesn't seem to matter much.

If you are going to paraphrase me go back and look at the original quote.

This is what I actually said...

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

spiritbears acknowledged the request and refused to participate. I took at that to mean "I have no idea" just like I said I would in the post in which you failed to quote accurately.

vote: modest

[liopoil]

correct. but at this point, anti-town isn't a good reason to be lynching people, because we don't have just one post, we have over 250, soon to be even more.

[yuma]

woah, this is a stretch, I usually hate argument saying x is scum because he is misrepresenting info, because hey townies do it all the time to get scum lynched you gotta build a good case which involves embellishment but man that is so not what happened.

I disagree about part of this. to get scum lynched you do not have to embellish. Not at all. Doing so is a great disservice to town because it provides an opportunity for scum to weasel out of something because it appears to be based off embellishment.

I do agree that town sometimes misrepresents info, accidentally. It happens. But to say that someone shouldn't be held accountable is wrong. I am not saying they should be lynched for it, but I think pressure needs to be applied and a gauge of their reaction should be taken. Scum embellishes all the time as well. I certainly have. The difference is that as scum it is often intentional, because you have to embellish as scum. As town it is accidental. Finding the difference is crucial, hence the pressure and the votes.

[mcmcsalot]

what MPG is saying makes sense. Before anyone has posted, if you had to lynch someone right away, it should be random. Then let's say the first post is anti-town. That person is suddenly the best lynch right then.  Nobody thinks we should random lynch.

I do not think he was saying I have no reads on anyone so anti town is the best lynch currently, its early enough you could just not vote. He voted saying it was a good lynch because sb was anti town and backed it up with saying its better than random which I think is a scummy way to back up a vote.

[nkirbit]

I'm fairly convinced that SB is town now.  I was worried for a bit, but he has since drifted way towards likely being town in my eyes.

When SB asked Yuma to restate his case for Robz being scum, he felt a bit scummy to me.  It seemed like he wanted to again bring up Robz's scumminess, which hadn't been discussed recently, but wanted to do so in a way that showed everyone his main reason was someone else's read.  I was particularly concerned with his interaction with Yuma.  When he asked Yuma to restate his opinion, Yuma said practically nothing new on the subject, simply quoting his original post.  Yet, the restating of the old information was enough to make SB switch his vote?  The feeling I got from this was that SB was looking for a reason to vote Robz, rather than trying to figure out who was most likely scum. 

I was trying to decide if SB was:
(a):  Legitimately responding to Robz's accusation, or
(b):  Using Robz's accusation as an excuse to focus on Robz once again.

That being said, I have been impressed with the consistency SB has shown responding to MGP's accusation.  He responded with the exact same aggression towards his accuser (in terms of accusing them of being scum).  This makes me think that his initial accusation of Robz was based on the accusation rather than an underlying motive, and my initial read was wrong.  Coupled with his resistance to Yuma's question (It would be very risky for a scum to take this position -  this isn't 100% evidence, but certainly points towards SB being a town in my eyes), I am more convinced of SB being town than I am of anyone else.

[modestguineapig]

Alright, sorry for the paraphrase before... I was multitasking (playing Dominion with husband).  Here is the actual quotes for any interested parties.  I put my paraphrase underneath each quote.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!

I'll take your response to be a "no idea" response and remember it for later.

Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.

No. I told you I didn't care for it, you correctly read it as "I don't know"

SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

I'm not sure what I am being blamed for here.  I don't feel my paraphrasing was biased or trying to misrepresent sb.  Please tell me, sb, how you would paraphrase the above to accurately portray the situation, since I did such a terrible job.  I did leave off the qualifier in yuma's first post.  Simply put, I didn't remember it.  Obviously, anyone can go back and see what was really said.  My intention was not to mislead but to quickly reference the exchange.

I think lio has a grasp on what I was trying to convey.  At this point, I don't see any strong scum candidates. So, at this point on D1 in lieu of a strong scum candidate, I am voting for an anti-town candidate. 

[mcmcsalot]

woah, this is a stretch, I usually hate argument saying x is scum because he is misrepresenting info, because hey townies do it all the time to get scum lynched you gotta build a good case which involves embellishment but man that is so not what happened.

I disagree about part of this. to get scum lynched you do not have to embellish. Not at all. Doing so is a great disservice to town because it provides an opportunity for scum to weasel out of something because it appears to be based off embellishment.

I do agree that town sometimes misrepresents info, accidentally. It happens. But to say that someone shouldn't be held accountable is wrong. I am not saying they should be lynched for it, but I think pressure needs to be applied and a gauge of their reaction should be taken. Scum embellishes all the time as well. I certainly have. The difference is that as scum it is often intentional, because you have to embellish as scum. As town it is accidental. Finding the difference is crucial, hence the pressure and the votes.

yuma you are king of embellishment as town, noone wants to admit it, once people get revved up they stretch things like crazy and I have noticed you do it on a few occasions. Also I completely disagree, I am 4/4 as scum, we lynch people over a million different things that they actually do. I think scum takes care to make sure there argument is as close to what really happened as possible. So I think it is more likely for town to make small embellishments(hence why I find those arguments crappy) In this scenario however the case mgp has presented is so far from the truth that he had to have done it knowingly which means he has to be scum(town has no reason to knowingly do it)

You may have misunderstood me, I mean to say town embellishes often because when putting a case together you think you found scum and you really try and hammer your case home and you embellish things. Scum rarely does it because they are careful not to get caught, they know they are building a case on town and they are much less likely to get overexcited.

[mcmcsalot]

Alright, sorry for the paraphrase before... I was multitasking (playing Dominion with husband).  Here is the actual quotes for any interested parties.  I put my paraphrase underneath each quote.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

Yuma: Everyone must participate or you will be seen as anti-town!

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

SB: I don't want to be bullied, I don't get the point!

I'll take your response to be a "no idea" response and remember it for later.

Yuma: I think he means he doesn't know.

No. I told you I didn't care for it, you correctly read it as "I don't know"

SB: Yeah, I meant I don't know who I would choose.

I'm not sure what I am being blamed for here.  I don't feel my paraphrasing was biased or trying to misrepresent sb.  Please tell me, sb, how you would paraphrase the above to accurately portray the situation, since I did such a terrible job.  I did leave off the qualifier in yuma's first post.  Simply put, I didn't remember it.  Obviously, anyone can go back and see what was really said.  My intention was not to mislead but to quickly reference the exchange.

I think lio has a grasp on what I was trying to convey.  At this point, I don't see any strong scum candidates. So, at this point on D1 in lieu of a strong scum candidate, I am voting for an anti-town candidate.

My issue is those were not the only post, more went down than that and the way you portray it puts sb in a much scummier position.

[yuma]

@nk: one thing to keep in mind... and maybe that you don't know... is that spiritbears (sorry if I am saying anything that I shouldn't be saying here sb, but you have stated it publicly before, so I feel pretty safe) has a medical condition that makes using a computer difficult for him. I think he currently uses a phone and posting and rereading can sometimes be difficult for him. I saw his request for my case to simply be asking for help. And I was very willing to provide it to help him out. Maybe there is more to it than that, but that is how I saw it.

@ mgp: I think the crux of it is that you found sb scummy for doing something when you see the full context of our posts isn't that suspicious. It is actually a pretty expected response that follows what was being said. As for blame... I don't blame you for missing it, but I would and do expect town to be more thorough. But just because you aren't thorough doesn't mean you are scum. but it does mean I am going to focus on you a bit more, because it stands out (see my post above), hence the vote and the inquiries.

[yuma]

yes mcmc, I think we are on the same page. I hope I don't embellish, and you are right I dont' think that I do... but I think what we are both saying is that town doesn't intentionally embellish... whereas I am saying that I know that I have intentionally embellished as mafia before. In every game I have done this. As town I try to just give it straight, but naturally I get things wrong.

[nkirbit]

Yuma:  Thank you for letting me know that, I did not before.  In that case, that pretty much alleviates any lingering concerns I had about SB.

[modestguineapig]

@mcmc
Here's the only other quote from sb that occurred after the first refusal.

@ ash: I added in a later post mcmc and lio to my list if you care to add them. If I had to pick between lio and mcmc I think I would pick lio.

And I think everyone needs to participate in this. Failure to participate will be seen as highly scummy behavior. And by participate I mean at least acknowledge it. Even an "I have no idea" post like nkirbit suffices

I don't appreciate being told what to do and I'm not sûre is at all worthwhile activity for anyone other than the long time players

Its extremely pro town for everyone to answer. Because if you flip scum I want to know who you wanted to pick(or lied about wanting to pick) as your scum partner. Making people name who they want to be partners with makes scum go on record talking about scum, this is always pro town. If you don't want to answer that is completely fine but I am going to assume it is because you are scum and can't think of a safe way to answer the question.

Whatever. I'm not going to be bullied into something I don't believe in just because "it's the town thing to do"
I don't have enough information on at least half the players here to make it worthwhile.  Like I said.  Fine for vets, not so helpful for the rest of us

Seems like more of the same?

@yuma, like I said before.  From my point of view, as a townie, I see no disadvantage in just randomly picking two people for the mafia-inquiry.  If I die, it won't matter!  So why is sb making a point about not doing it?  Even if you don't know anyone, just pick two people.  If you don't find that scummy or anti-town, that's fine.  I just don't feel that way. 

[nkirbit]

There's a difference between scummy and anti-town, though.  He was anti-town in both your shortened version and the actual events, and I don't think many people will deny that.  There certainly would have been no good reason not to pick two people at random.  It's just that I personally don't want to lynch based on anti-townness (and others have stated they feel the same)

Your version made SB appear a lot more scummy than he actually is, though.  Your version implies that SB changed his mind about what he meant, when I think the full context shows that that's not what happened. In reality, SB was consistent about not caring for the question.

[spiritbears]

Thank you Yuma.  I'm sorry I usually try to adress it before it become an issue, but I have very limited use of my hands and do my best to tap out responses on a phone (which I just changed and am still getting the hang of)..I have a very hard time correcting my typing so please excuse my typos.
It is very difficult for me to copy paste also and creating the kindof complicated posts most of you vets are very good at. So mostly I rely on my memory and it's true I do ask people to restate cases and help me with what eas said before.  I'm sorry if that comes across as laziness, I really am doing my best

[modestguineapig]

There's a difference between scummy and anti-town, though.  He was anti-town in both your shortened version and the actual events, and I don't think many people will deny that.  There certainly would have been no good reason not to pick two people at random.  It's just that I personally don't want to lynch based on anti-townness (and others have stated they feel the same)

Your version made SB appear a lot more scummy than he actually is, though.  Your version implies that SB changed his mind about what he meant, when I think the full context shows that that's not what happened. In reality, SB was consistent about not caring for the question.

Ah, thanks for clarifying that.  I don't really have a defense, I suppose.  I wasn't deliberately trying to make that the focal point of the exchange.  I was trying to highlight how he refused to answer because of perceived bullying on yuma's part. That why I didn't say, "and look how he changed his mind!"

[sudgy]

Sorry I haven't been doing much, I'm kind of busy this week.  It should be better by next week.

[yuma]

Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!

1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9

I didn't take out pre-game posts.

[spiritbears]

Btw
I keep seeing Mc's 4/4 stat and keep thinking, well that doesn't count the busted game...in which he was busted day one and his partner on thin ice......but for some stupidity on my behalf that should read 4/5!

[ashersky]

Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!

1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9

I didn't take out pre-game posts.

That a low number for Robz...this isn't RMM.

[spiritbears]

Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!

1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9

I didn't take out pre-game posts.

Is that count right for mgp? She has 3 posts on this page alone.  Robz low numbers stand out a little

[yuma]

I noticed that as well but I think he is semi-vla... he said so somewhere... Nothing else really stood out to me.

[yuma]

and yes, modest has 10 posts thus far. I count by going to the print screen utility and type "posts by: XXX" to pull up the number of posts quick and easy.

[ashersky]

Post count time!!! I know it is everyone's favorite, it certainly is mine!

1. Yuma - 25
2. Ashersky - 48
3. mail-mi - 20
4. Eevee - 18
5. liopoil - 32
6. Robz888 - 14
7. nkirbit - 26
8. AHoppy - 6
9. modestguineapig - 10
10. mcmcsalot - 24
11. spiritbears - 23
12. sudgy - 9

I didn't take out pre-game posts.

Is that count right for mgp? She has 3 posts on this page alone.  Robz low numbers stand out a little

10 is correct, I just did a check.

[ashersky]

and yes, modest has 10 posts thus far. I count by going to the print screen utility and type "posts by: XXX" to pull up the number of posts quick and easy.

Fixed that for you.