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[Voltaire]

On a similar note... once I had decided that I was voting for voltaire, voltaire stopped trying to convince me of him being town and of trying to get me to vote for mail-mi... maybe he thought that I couldn't be convinced (I don't know... I probably can't, but I think town keeps trying)... but instead he switched gears and started to vote for me. It was as though he realized he lost my support and as a result felt that he had to start attacking the one player that was guaranteed to no longer support him.

No, the reason all of this happened is because since I think Teproc is town, I am left with three options:

yuma/mail-mi
yuma/Eevee
mail-mi/Eevee

I decided the third is incredibly unlikely. BAM, you just got POEd as scum. Case closed.

Also (though it is not much overall), I have way more interactions with mail-mi than you do. I challenge anyone to re-read the thread and conclude otherwise.

Also! mail-mi may not even be scum! Maybe the team is Eevee/yuma. I still have to do that re-read, and I haven't yet.

And I will make a case-based post on why yuma is scum, since I know that my POE only applies to myself since no-one else can know I am town.

[Voltaire]

I have tried to stand by it all game long... but people keep getting lynched instead of him.

...says the guy who started the faust quick-lynch (which I joined, yes) and drove the EFHW near-lynch.

[yuma]

No, the reason all of this happened is because since I think Teproc is town, I am left with three options:

yuma/mail-mi
yuma/Eevee
mail-mi/Eevee

I decided the third is incredibly unlikely. BAM, you just got POEd as scum. Case closed.

Did I miss the post where you eliminated eevee-mail-mi?

[Teproc]

You started the faust quick-lynch, Voltaire. Robz joined in, then yuma as well.

[Voltaire]

No, the reason all of this happened is because since I think Teproc is town, I am left with three options:

yuma/mail-mi
yuma/Eevee
mail-mi/Eevee

I decided the third is incredibly unlikely. BAM, you just got POEd as scum. Case closed.

Did I miss the post where you eliminated eevee-mail-mi?

Yes.

Eevee, it looks like you used this to try to get me lynched, not mail-mi. Do you see the difference I was talking about earlier? It looks like you want mail-mi to be considered but not lynched.

Well, you know, I thought your position on him was extremely off, so I called you out on it. There are more words about you because you actually answered to my posts. Mail-mi was never really viable, no one but me and teproc were even considering him. Maybe I abandoned it too easily, but you were the only one responding to my points about him and you had taken him off the table and were not budging on that, so..

Fair point.

I think I want to stop considering Eevee/mail-mi.

That leaves me with only two options. Eevee/yuma or yuma/mail-mi.

I think I'm ready to vote. But I won't until Teproc can give more extended thoughts, and mail-mi too.

The reasons are in the posts proceeding it.

[yuma]

I have tried to stand by it all game long... but people keep getting lynched instead of him.

...says the guy who started the faust quick-lynch (which I joined, yes) and drove the EFHW near-lynch.

actually you started it. I pointed out something and then you voted first. I believe I was the third vote (meaning I think you jumped on something that I pointed out and thought that it might be an escape route for you)

Hey... you were right there with me on the EFHW wagon. Sheeping I might say.

[Teproc]

Yuma was the first to comment on faust's post but he was clearly not sure if he wanted to lych faust right away before he got 2 votes on him. Relevant quote below.

And to be clear I am not finding him suspicious for not being around the rest of the day. Our deadlines are hard for european players, but I DO NOT like how he just ignored the case on voltaire and then plopped a really safe vote down right before deadline... And i am frustrated that I can't really go back to voting for him because he won't be around to claim if he does get up that high... is the risk worth going back to him? I don't know. If I wasn't somewhat certain about voltaire I might go back, but as it is, I think I have them about equal in terms of scumminess...

I agree, I would lynch him for this.

The question is thus: Do we lynch him today (or try to do so) or do we let him live until Day2 (I am assuming mafia won't be NKing him) and then consider lynching him then for this egregious behavior?

[yuma]

No, the reason all of this happened is because since I think Teproc is town, I am left with three options:

yuma/mail-mi
yuma/Eevee
mail-mi/Eevee

I decided the third is incredibly unlikely. BAM, you just got POEd as scum. Case closed.

Did I miss the post where you eliminated eevee-mail-mi?

Yes.

Eevee, it looks like you used this to try to get me lynched, not mail-mi. Do you see the difference I was talking about earlier? It looks like you want mail-mi to be considered but not lynched.

Well, you know, I thought your position on him was extremely off, so I called you out on it. There are more words about you because you actually answered to my posts. Mail-mi was never really viable, no one but me and teproc were even considering him. Maybe I abandoned it too easily, but you were the only one responding to my points about him and you had taken him off the table and were not budging on that, so..

Fair point.

I think I want to stop considering Eevee/mail-mi.

That leaves me with only two options. Eevee/yuma or yuma/mail-mi.

I think I'm ready to vote. But I won't until Teproc can give more extended thoughts, and mail-mi too.

The reasons are in the posts proceeding it.

which was immediately after I had decided that I was going to vote for you.

[Voltaire]

I have tried to stand by it all game long... but people keep getting lynched instead of him.

...says the guy who started the faust quick-lynch (which I joined, yes) and drove the EFHW near-lynch.

actually you started it. I pointed out something and then you voted first. I believe I was the third vote (meaning I think you jumped on something that I pointed out and thought that it might be an escape route for you)

Hey... you were right there with me on the EFHW wagon. Sheeping I might say.

Or...you tested the waters for a faust mislynch, saw two townies jump on it, and went for it.

I thought you had a good case. What was bugging me was the "EFHW brought it up" no town-reads thing. We were both wrong...unless one of us was shooting for a mislynch.

[Voltaire]

which was immediately after I had decided that I was going to vote for you.

Yeah, I was typing that post and then you voted for me.

[Voltaire]

Yuma was the first to comment on faust's post but he was clearly not sure if he wanted to lych faust right away before he got 2 votes on him. Relevant quote below.

Testing. The. Waters.

[yuma]

which was immediately after I had decided that I was going to vote for you.

Yeah, I was typing that post and then you voted for me.

if you say so, sure I'll believe you.

[yuma]

Yuma was the first to comment on faust's post but he was clearly not sure if he wanted to lych faust right away before he got 2 votes on him. Relevant quote below.

Testing. The. Waters.

if this is testing the waters what would you call what you have done to me all game long?

[mail-mi]

Oh gosh that's a lot of pages. I skimmed while at lunch and now class is about to start. I'm not comfortable with either vote actually, Eevee is the scum. Well, one of the votes is on his partner, but I'm not sure which. Wish I could say more, school happens at the most inconvenient time doesn't it?

[Voltaire]

Yuma was the first to comment on faust's post but he was clearly not sure if he wanted to lych faust right away before he got 2 votes on him. Relevant quote below.

Testing. The. Waters.

if this is testing the waters what would you call what you have done to me all game long?

Either

1. scum!yuma is really ****ing good at poisoning the well so a townie voting for him will look suspicious? I've pointed this out before, and so did EFHW.

or

2. being right 

[yuma]

no... i am not participating in a conversation here. volt is scum. anyone that wants to know can go back and look. i am done talking to volt. anyone else have questions? nothing volt says from this point out am i considering valid...

[yuma]

Oh gosh that's a lot of pages. I skimmed while at lunch and now class is about to start. I'm not comfortable with either vote actually, Eevee is the scum. Well, one of the votes is on his partner, but I'm not sure which. Wish I could say more, school happens at the most inconvenient time doesn't it?

nice job dodging the question at hand...

[Voltaire]

Also, yuma, it's not like I've been magically correct about you all game long. I started with a gut scum read, dismissed it as gut based, thought I started seeing evidence, decided other cases were better (including some you made), and now, D3, I've POEd you and that lets me see your behavior all game in a different light.

[Voltaire]

no... i am not participating in a conversation here. volt is scum. anyone that wants to know can go back and look. i am done talking to volt. anyone else have questions? nothing volt says from this point out am i considering valid...

scum!yuma again. He refused to debate because he has nothing to stand on and doesn't want to let himself get tripped up.

[Voltaire]

Oh gosh that's a lot of pages. I skimmed while at lunch and now class is about to start. I'm not comfortable with either vote actually, Eevee is the scum. Well, one of the votes is on his partner, but I'm not sure which. Wish I could say more, school happens at the most inconvenient time doesn't it?

nice job dodging the question at hand...

Yeah, just tell us if you're yuma's partner please. It'll make everything so much simpler.

I promise I am trying to read up on Eevee/yuma during this but it's really difficult with all the posts coming in.

[Voltaire]

Still reading for Eevee/yuma but I found this by EFHW and it's her expressing better the point I also made that yuma is pre-emptively defending himself by painting his attackers as scummy.

Teproc you are missing my points.  yuma asked for evidence of his being aggressive when suspected.  That's why I provided it.  I don't think it makes him scummy, and I said so.  I think he uses that to keep from being accused and I am pointing it out to town b/c if he is scum that is a powerful defense if not recognized.  I voted for yuma, but most of those posts were my defense against his attack, not my case against him.

Note the correct cautious clauses EFHW put in there, because yuma is playing well and has not been obvious.

I pointed this out when he did something similar to me:

Something to note: yuma has planted the seeds of discrediting me every time he talks about me. He predicts what the case against him is, then says bringing it up is scummy. So if I ever advance my case against yuma, I'll look scummy. He just did it right now (the 0/3 thing), and he did it at the start of the day too:

Voltaire as well... I fully expect him to come in here and vote for me raging that I am still alive and had a town read on Robz for town credit... But I'll leave it to him to make the pseudocase on me.

[Voltaire]

It was a quotefail post by here so you may have missed it, but EFHW pulled examples of this from other games:

Regarding yuma reacting hostilely to suspicions against him - He is correct it has only happened between us in a couple games.  Pirates II must have made a very big impression on me.  However, going through the games we have played together I find that he is almost never seriously suspected, but when he is, he does respond more aggressively than his other posts in the same game.  Some examples:

Vote:Yuma for having a plan but actually being unclear on whether it's a plan or not. I still don't know!

of course it is a plan. I said it was a plan. So it is a plan! What do you take me for?

Unvote

While this gives Yuma a lot of town credit, I'm still not considering him 100% IC.  Maybe like 85%!

really... well I am inclined to vote: nkirbit just for that. You really think that putting everyone up to L-1 is the way to do this? Alright. Let's start with you.

The fact that yuma is against the plan and claims his role isn't on the wiki makes me more interested in following it.  Because if my theory is right, chairs is a Mentor and yuma is his Mentee, and yuma has to do everything in his power to not let chairs die.

then lynch me, see that I am town and be done with it. Seriously. If you think that I would rather go to the grave than have chairs die. (already anticipating you saying "further evidence!!! yuma would rather die as a mentee than watch his mentor die!!!) But seriously, let's hunt mafia... rather than go off on wild goose chases...

vote: voltgloss

This one is really long, so I'll just post the link:

Add to this his aggressive response in this game ....

Chairs, are you going to get in here and defend yourself? I want to lynch you.

I'll just say this. I think Yuma has been unusually careful in his stances. Keep that in mind if you do lynch me.

Back that up. Right now. Back it up.

I don't think it is inaccurate to say that yuma comes on very strong when suspected.  As I said before, I don't think this is scummy or bad play.  I am pointing it out b/c I think this strategy may make people less likely to vote for him.

As she says, she doesn't think this is scummy (which is...strange). But it's clearly what is happening right here, and I think this post is stronger evidence than she gave herself credit for.

[Teproc]

It's not strong evidence because those quotes come from a game where yuma is town IIRC.

[Voltaire]

It's not strong evidence because those quotes come from a game where yuma is town IIRC.

Oh, really? Sad face, I have confirmation bias on my own correct case. Let me double-check.

[Voltaire]

It's not strong evidence because those quotes come from a game where yuma is town IIRC.

Oh, really? Sad face, I have confirmation bias on my own correct case. Let me double-check.

You're right, those were from LOTR2, and yuma was town. That explains my "(which is...strange)" comment about EFHW then! Anyway, it's still what he's doing here.

Also, Teproc, note that one of us basically has to be scum. If we're both town, scum almost certainly would have quickhammered. Eevee and mail-mi have both been around, and that's the only possible combination if you're town.

Basically, I would like to use my Gladiator power against yuma.