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[Voltaire]

I suggest everyone voting Walrus go back and read his first 13 or so posts with fresh eyes.  They read so towny to me.

I have, a few times, and I don't really agree. His first post could be rolefishing on faust. He claims faust is overeager, and faust did in fact come out of the gate gung-ho, but we now know that faust was town. Walrus was clearly implying faust was different and different = scum. Then he removes his vote, says he still finds faust scummy, and we get the whole "revote"/permission situation. I just clearly see this as scum, as in, if I don't re-vote, they'll think (know?) I'm scum!

What I'm saying is it's not a slam dunk, but even in isolation, Walrus's first posts have a clear scum narrative too. And we do have the rest of the game to consider.

For the record, my lynch order of preference goes Walrus, Eevee, yuma now, in that order. Those are the three I will happily vote.

[Voltaire]

so still on my list are Eevee, yuma, Teproc and maybe Voltaire.

Teproc still on your list! Might I ask why?

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Here's where I currently stand. I'll also be around through deadline, especially after lunchtime.

Of the four that EFHW mentioned, I still prefer Voltaire. Recent activity has done nothing to convince me of his towniness. Eevee said this, which I think captured my thoughts well:

Well, this may sound ike I'm sure he is scum - I'm not. I'm just very much disagreeing with him being off the table and find the lack of suspicion on him very alarming. How do you see this as different from town!Eevee? Your case on me was lurking and PoE, how does that not apply to mail-mi? That's one of the alarm bells you've set up in my head - your reads don't feel genuine. TownVoltaire is someone who makes me reconsider my own reads with my insight (we agree almost always when we are both town!). Here your reads give me a completely opposite vibe - they feel arbitrary instead of insightful.

Which brings me to Eevee...still a solid second choice lynch, but I have some concerns now. First of all, he has been much more active lately, and the things he has said strike me as being townier. Now of course the fact that he's switched up his posting frequency is a bit questionable, so that nullifies part of it...maybe he's scum under fire who realizes he needs to up his game. But overall I give him a few townpoints.

I also feel maaaaaybe that the Eevee lynch feels a little like we're settling into a compromise lynch, like maybe scum wouldn't resist it too hard because they know it's a mislynch. That's sort of a vague feeling of existential dread though.

Teproc--well I still think he seems townier, and I think that a Voltaire flip would give us a lot of info about him considering their interactions. Not that we're lynching solely for information, but it is a nice bonus, and it's part of the reason why I believe a Voltaire lynch is superior to a Teproc lynch right now. To be honest I too was a little surprised to see him in EFHW's lynchpool.

yuma I'm not as sure about as I used to be. But I think there are better lynches today.

mail-mi...well you know that I was wary of mail-mi from the beginning, but others convinced me to drop it. Now I don't even know what to think. But Voltaire is also one of the ones who seems to be defending mail-mi, so I think a lynch there would be informative on this front as well.

[Voltaire]

So let's play pretend, that the scum team is the least likely - Teproc/mail-mi or something like that. What do they do as we eat up all this time and energy? Probably just lurk in the background, right?

Because what I see is a fair amount of effort and energy by everyone but mail-mi (part of how lynching him tells us the least of anyone, and I think he's second-least likely to flip scum). So I currently believe we have at least one scum on the ropes, realistically.

[EFHW]

Yeah, Teproc is on the list only because of the few recent things I mentioned.  He has otherwise been very towny.  I guess I'm worried about being bamboozled.  I keep putting off rereading yuma b/c there is so much.  But time is running short!

[Teproc]

I suggest everyone voting Walrus go back and read his first 13 or so posts with fresh eyes.  They read so towny to me. 

How do you read his unvoting (while still maintaining his main argument for voting, i.e. that faust's behaviour is out of character), then revoting for faust as towny ?

My guess is : Walrus wanted to be active very early on (this whole exchange happened in the first ~40 posts of the game or so) and to start the scumhunting for town credit. Only he realised his case was weak (since faust had done the exact same thing in another game), and backed off. This could all be read as eager town, if he hadn't gone right back to his vote after yuma's post. I'll note that he also called out lurkers in the post in which he revoted for faust, which fits my narrative.

This isn't the only way to read it (although the revote is really not townie to me), but it's good enough for me, considering the alternative is Voltaire, whom* I have a town read on. As I said earlier, I'm also fine with a mail-mi or a yuma lynch, but those don't seem to be happening, so I'm fine with Walrus.

* correct ?

[EFHW]

I suggest everyone voting Walrus go back and read his first 13 or so posts with fresh eyes.  They read so towny to me. 

How do you read his unvoting (while still maintaining his main argument for voting, i.e. that faust's behaviour is out of character), then revoting for faust as towny ?

My guess is : Walrus wanted to be active very early on (this whole exchange happened in the first ~40 posts of the game or so) and to start the scumhunting for town credit. Only he realised his case was weak (since faust had done the exact same thing in another game), and backed off. This could all be read as eager town, if he hadn't gone right back to his vote after yuma's post. I'll note that he also called out lurkers in the post in which he revoted for faust, which fits my narrative.

This isn't the only way to read it (although the revote is really not townie to me), but it's good enough for me, considering the alternative is Voltaire, whom* I have a town read on. As I said earlier, I'm also fine with a mail-mi or a yuma lynch, but those don't seem to be happening, so I'm fine with Walrus.

* correct ?

It reads post-noob to me.  I can easily see all those things happening to me as town.  Of course, I am a scummyish town player, as has been apparent in this game.  It seems to me he is doing exactly what he said - trying to put himself forward more now that he has a few games under his belt, and having a few bumps along the way.  Each one of his posts addresses multiple points, his reasoning develops naturally, his emotional responses feel genuine.  I have no problem with the vote change. 

[EFHW]

I haven't finished rereading yuma, but I'm removing him from my list.  He is clearly scum-hunting, and the only scummy stuff was towards me, so I should divide that by 2 or something.

[EFHW]

Leaving Teproc to the side for the time being, that leaves Eevee and Voltaire.  Eevee has been much townier lately, but he almost has no other choice.  He backed off on mail-mi quite gracefully.  He's a really nice guy.  But I can't rule him out.  I'll look at Voltaire some more.

[EFHW]

Teproc - have you explained your town read on Voltaire?

[EFHW]

Teproc, Eevee and Voltaire are the 3 people on Walrus.  Is anyone else considering voting Walrus? 

Walrus, mail-mi and yuma are on Voltaire.  Eevee is also considering him. 

Who here is open to an Eevee lynch?

[yuma]

one major hangup i have with voltaire is that if he is scum I didn't die in the night.

I pursued him aggressively day1 and he probably would have known that i would continue to be aggressive day2...

I am not sure what to make of that to be honest...if he is scum maybe he thought i would be a mislynch possibility or maybe he was scum PR hunting like he said at beginning of day2... or maybe he thought the argument that the longer yuma lives the more likely he is scum (that he was setting up throughout day1) would be worth the risk of being scum hunted day2.

Or maybe he is town and scum left me alive to pursue a mislynch... I have to consider that... actually that brings up another big point.... if voltaire is town that means I am 0/3 in scum hunting. I think town voltaire would find that unacceptable from me and would be pursuing my lynch today much more aggressively.... but he hasn't... maybe cause he knows I am right on this one?

[Voltaire]

Who here is open to an Eevee lynch?

*raises hand*

[yuma]

Teproc, Eevee and Voltaire are the 3 people on Walrus.  Is anyone else considering voting Walrus? 

Walrus, mail-mi and yuma are on Voltaire.  Eevee is also considering him. 

Who here is open to an Eevee lynch?

I won;t vote walrus. I would vote teproc over walrus.

I might vote eevee over volt, but prefer volt I think.

[Voltaire]

Or maybe he is town and scum left me alive to pursue a mislynch... I have to consider that... actually that brings up another big point.... if voltaire is town that means I am 0/3 in scum hunting. I think town voltaire would find that unacceptable from me and would be pursuing my lynch today much more aggressively.... but he hasn't... maybe cause he knows I am right on this one?

Well, it is, but

1. you were townier in the second half of my re-read (still scummy)
2. Our IC doesn't appear to want to lynch you, nor do many other players
2a. If you're scum, you have a partner, so I can be fine lynching them

But really, if you are town, I am not surprised scum left you alive. Like I said, I think there's no reason whatsoever to kill Robz unless you believe he is a town PR. That's what I think happened.

[Teproc]

I don't think I have.

The big thing is that we seem to think very similarly, to a point that I don't believe it's faked. I read his posts and they often say pretty much what I was thinking. I have a hard time believing scum could do that.

Now I have disagreed with him a few times (looking for scumpairs is not good I think), but I will also say that his day 2 seems very towny overall. The theory talk isn't very relevant, but he certainly didn't seem to have any ulterior motives there, and then he spent his time scumhunting. His dismissal of mail-mi is, I think, a necessity because you have to exclude some people from your lynch pool : I am doing something similar with Eevee actually.

Then there's the buddying he's been doing towards me, which worried me at first, but then got so over the top that I have a hard time believing it's a scum tactic (I recognize that it could be though).

It's not that I don't have doubts about him, it's that I feel like they're more due to the fear of being duped (kind of what you're saying about me actually), and I don't think that's a very constructive way to think about this game. At this point, you have to trust somebody. I will certainly question this a lot more if we're both alive day 3, but for now I don't feel comfortable voting for him when pretty much all the other options are more appealing to me.

PPE: 5 unread replies

[yuma]

I don't think I have.

The big thing is that we seem to think very similarly, to a point that I don't believe it's faked. I read his posts and they often say pretty much what I was thinking. I have a hard time believing scum could do that.

you want to see a real example of this... go read MVIII where C_frisk (scum) and I (town) share basically identical reads and thoughts through days1-3 to the point where it becomes apparent something weird is going on. I gave him tons of credit for thinking the same as me, but turns out he was just scum "mirroring" me. It worked really well and I was very hesitant to lynch him.

[Voltaire]

Yeah, but Teproc can also go read D1 where he was chairs.

[Voltaire]

There's also dozens of examples of this happening when it's town/town. I mean, yes, scum can do it, but it's one of those "what's more likely" things if you're looking at it objectively.

Something to note: yuma has planted the seeds of discrediting me every time he talks about me. He predicts what the case against him is, then says bringing it up is scummy. So if I ever advance my case against yuma, I'll look scummy. He just did it right now (the 0/3 thing), and he did it at the start of the day too:

Voltaire as well... I fully expect him to come in here and vote for me raging that I am still alive and had a town read on Robz for town credit... But I'll leave it to him to make the pseudocase on me.

[mail-mi]

Teproc, Eevee and Voltaire are the 3 people on Walrus.  Is anyone else considering voting Walrus? 

Walrus, mail-mi and yuma are on Voltaire.  Eevee is also considering him. 

Who here is open to an Eevee lynch?

I'm on Voltaire? I prefer walrus.

[yuma]

There's also dozens of examples of this happening when it's town/town. I mean, yes, scum can do it, but it's one of those "what's more likely" things if you're looking at it objectively.

That isn't the point. He says "I have a hard time believe scum could do that" and I am showing that scum can, in fact, do just that and basically get away with it. Frisk ended up getting lynched. But it wasn't a given conclusion to that, it was quite close.

[Voltaire]

Then yes, we agree, scum can do that.

[yuma]

Something to note: yuma has planted the seeds of discrediting me every time he talks about me. He predicts what the case against him is, then says bringing it up is scummy. So if I ever advance my case against yuma, I'll look scummy. He just did it right now (the 0/3 thing), and he did it at the start of the day too:

Hey man, you were the one that started the whole "if yuma is still alive tomorrow he is probably scum, cause yuma is SOOOO powerful as town that scum wouldn't dare leave him alive." You started that train of thought day1. So yeah, I am going to be on the lookout for you trying to make that argument, especially when I have repeatedly shown that in the history of f.ds it is in fact false.

[Voltaire]

My case on you has absolutely nothing to do with you being alive at this point.

[yuma]

My case on you has absolutely nothing to do with you being alive at this point.

I am aware, you think mafia killed Robz as PR hunting. But here I am responding to your quote from the beginning of day2 where I did fully expect you to come in making that sort of a case because you had brought it up so consistently throughout day1.