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[mcmcsalot]

Here is what I personally consider newbie, average player, and vet.

A newbie is a player that is new to the game(obviously) they usually need some of the lingo explained and are likely to bring a different(not wrong) approach to the game. These players are often found scummy because they don't follow our expected town behavior, though they are also more likely to have an apparent change in playstyle when they are scum.

An average players is one that has played enough to have been both town and scum, and have played a few different setups. This means they understand all the lingo and different game mechanics(soft deadline, mass claim, no lynch, ect.) however they still have not played a plethora of roles or enough to know all individual players play styles. I think these players are the most dangerous because they have a good grasp of the game, are able to change their meta and confuse us, and are often given a pass to "ask a vet" their opinion of another, which often times a vet is found scummy for doing to another vet.

A vet is a player that has played long enough to grasp all the roles and what one should do with them, can point out individual players habits, and often use previous games to judge other players. These players are very self aware and thus dangerous as both scum and town.

So I would consider mail and lio as average(and dangerous) players, they have been scum and town but I can't think of many pr's they have been nor can I say they would have large experience with all the other vets.

[mcmcsalot]

As far as xeiron goes, I will have to reread him and probably that game, all I remember was getting caught and hammered much earlier than I expected and looking terrible as far as connecting myself to xeiron. I was almost positive he would not make it all the way due to how obvious I made it that he was my partner. So I don't believe he was actually that scummy in that game but I can double check when I have time.

[mcmcsalot]

Reads while I am at it.

Scum: liopoil(my case), ashersky(advantageous position)
Slight scum: xeiron(case out if nowhere), ahoppy(mega-lurking)
Null: eevee, mail-mi (need to reread)
Slight town: spiritbears(does seem similar, and wants to figure things out)
Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Dunno if I missed anyone, I'm on mobile so I am cross checking now. Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

[liopoil]

Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 

But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!

what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?

[mcmcsalot]

Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 

But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!

what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?

Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.

[ashersky]

Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 

But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!

what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?

Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.

Man, who does this?  "I know!  I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both!  That'll work awesomely!"

You honestly see scum!ash doing that?  Am I not a vet to you?  Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum?  That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.

Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.

[ashersky]

I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.

What makes you think this?  Emotionally this makes sense, but logically it sounds like something newbie/average scum uses to misdirect.  It's probably true, though.

(Side note: the three you mention would make an awesome team, either kicking butt or failing epically!)

I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.

I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.

[yuma]

I'm no vet! I've finished 4 normal games and 1 bastard, that's all.

Really? Only five games? Maybe it is because of our time in quicktopics together, but I feel like you have been around a lot more than that...

[yuma]

Town: robz, Yuma(gut read should probably reread)

Wow I just spent about 10 min scrolling down and up checking why I only had 9+me and there were 11 players. Finally realized yuma's post count skips the number 7...

That alone is good enough grounds for an RVS vote! shame we're in the middle of D2 

But really, a gut town read on Yuma is essentially a scumread!

what do you mean by advantageous position for ashersky?

Ash saying me and you are scum together. I know I am town, so lynching me and you is either 1 town, 1 scum, or 2 town. Normally 1 for 1 is good for town, and I still think it is here but I am and have been pushing your lynch for a long time. So lets say chances you are going to get lynched are higher than average I think then, 1 for 1 is good for scum(better than 1 for 0) and if I am wrong about you 2 town lynches is amazing for scum. So if you are town or scum, ash pushing for the fact that me and you are a scum team together is really good for scum!ash and really bad for town!ash, I think that makes ash much more likely to be scum.

Man, who does this?  "I know!  I'll just say TWO players are scum so we can mislynch them both!  That'll work awesomely!"

You honestly see scum!ash doing that?  Am I not a vet to you?  Actually, do you see anyone doing that as scum?  That you argue it is "really good for scum" tells me you are building fake cases to take the heat off of you, which you have.

Insanely terrible case from obv!scum.

I think the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!

All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)

All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)

How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?

[yuma]

I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.

I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.

yay! More scum team predictions!!! So is it mcmc/lio/yuma or mcmc/yuma/?

[yuma]

quote fail: fixed

I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.

I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.

yay! More scum team predictions!!! So is it mcmc/lio/yuma or mcmc/yuma/?

[liopoil]

I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.

What makes you think this?  Emotionally this makes sense, but logically it sounds like something newbie/average scum uses to misdirect.  It's probably true, though.

(Side note: the three you mention would make an awesome team, either kicking butt or failing epically!)

I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.

I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.

I think it because scum chose their partners. Unless Ahoppy was the one doing to choosing or something, I think they would very likely choose a vet. Sure, WIFOM, but if I'm scum, I want someone who definitely knows what their doing on my team.

Yeah, I thought something felt off about that post, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Interested to see what you saw.

I'm no vet! I've finished 4 normal games and 1 bastard, that's all.

Really? Only five games? Maybe it is because of our time in quicktopics together, but I feel like you have been around a lot more than that...

really. DS9, another dinner party, bankers, S&N, ehalc's bastard game.

the big problem with both of your statements is that you both are making assumptions that neither of you should be making!

All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that lio is his partner and that they are staging an argument/bussing...)

All of mcmc's arguments assume that lio is scum. and force fits everything else to fit into that belief. (ie that ash must be trying for a 1 v 1 trade since he figures that lio is going to get lynched anyways...)

How bout we lynch one player at a time and then worry about the rest after we get a flip, huh?

Strongly agree.

[ashersky]

I feel like there's gotta be a scum veteran here. It isn't robz, and I don't think it's mcmc. That leaves me with Yuma, ashersky, and Eevee. I think at least one of those is scum, but I have no clue which.

Don't forget to include yourself!!! (yes I consider you a veteran!)

But this is something worth considering in this game where a statement like this would be worthless in another game. Obviously I am not going to consider myself, but regardless of what people said about who they woud choose as scum--there is just a lot of WIFOM in those statements--both eevee and ash would make for good partners as scum and likely choices.

I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...

Eevee on the other hand has kinda stayed away from the mcmc/lio argument for whatever reason and has pushed toward mail-mi. I don't mind that push... but given that mail-mi is VLA starting tomorrow? for a week? I hate to say it because I hate it when VLA impacts games and especially when it might prevent us from lynching scum... but hey, this is a game and we have to role with those sort of setbacks... given that mail-mi is VLA he might not be the best lynch candidate for today. Eevee has also been a bit gone today with VLA stuff. There were still a handful of things that I found eevee scummy for day1.

So I guess both are on the scummier side... probably both a bit scummier than say mcmc/lio at this point, but not scummier than where I am voting on xeiron. Guys we have seen.... well at least some of us have seen scum xeiron before. In the sad broken game he was partners with mcmc.

Mcmc is maybe the best person to ask: do you think that his play here is similar to his play there. And spiritbears was able to pinpoint both of them pretty well--aside from being distracted by me--from what you remember sb, do you think xeiron compares in these games? I think he does.

This may be a bit stream of consciousness, since I'm not going to break the quote into multiples.

Main point: I think this is how scum would respond to liopoil's innocent-seeming post about veteran scum.

Breakdown:

--jokey first line, doesn't actually apply given liopoil's "non-veteran" status.  I mean, he's been around, but look at the names he lists.  He's talking about the old-timers.

--second paragraph is a nothing paragraph, sounds smart and good, not really making any statements

--third paragraph is about me, we'll get to that in a minute

--fourth paragraph is about Eevee; points out something that bothered me about Eevee's redirect to mail-mi.  I think there's merit in looking at mail-mi, but I'm not sure D2 is the right place for it.  We have better targets already.  But compared to the length of the paragraph, there's very little there about Eevee and more about mail-mi.  I don't think we end up anywhere but a null Eevee read there.

--fifth...both scummier than lio/mcmc?  Really?  What?

--sixth and final paragraph, asks mcmc of all people a question.  Granted, Xeiron is on the scummy side of null, but I think that's his style.


Okay, back to this:

I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...

This just pisses me off.  HOW MANY TIMES DO I GET TO BE CALLED SCUMMY FOR NOT BEING SCUMMY ENOUGH?  I get it, I'm scummy in like every game ever.  But if I make any effort at all to be better at being town and helping, I get caled scummy for it because "he's not arguing enough" or "he's too calm" or "hmmm, he isn't being scummy, he must be scum!"  Eevee did this to me in Bankers.  This happens every game and it is getting ridiculous.

Yes, I've been focused on mcmc all D2.  Can you not think of a good town reason why this could be?  Really?  I haven't been this towny since DS9, man.  I'm doing my best to help town win a freaking game, given it's been so long, and the only time we win is when I mod, so I'm doing my best to fix it, and I'm doing a damn good job, if you would just listen to me.  Not just hear me, but really listen to what I've been saying.

The scum slip isn't ridiculous.  It isn't a "0% chance of flipping town" sort of scumslip.  It's a sign that he's scum and can't quite hide it sort of scumslip.

You, yuma, are being obtuse.  Maybe it's to get reactions, I don't know.  I've refrained from saying this, since I know how much you hate it, but here it is again: yuma very well may be scum because he's being so towny.  He's being towny and leading town (even when he's trying not to lead town by passing the buck to Robz) and we all know scum!yuma does that.  Go see every game ever in teh history of time.  When yuma is towny, he's scum.  Good luck arguing against that, scummyscumscumscum.

Now, if you will all just please listen to me and vote mcmc, we can get this game on track and win.  We can focus on catching his partners (lio, yuma, whoever) on D3.

[ashersky]

All of ash's arguments assume that mcmc is scum.

Yes.

[ashersky]

quote fail: fixed

I was ready to say Eevee was seeming scummier from the two possibles in this grouping, but then Yuma wrote his response, which is scummy enough to jump to possible mcmc partner status.

I'll respond to that when I get to a computer.

yay! More scum team predictions!!! So is it mcmc/lio/yuma or mcmc/yuma/?

It's mcmc/someone/someone.  My top choices for the two someones are lio and you for now.  You both are higher on my radar than the rest.

[spiritbears]

I wondered how long it would take till we saw defensive angry Ash.  But really that's a null read.  I still have him likely town....

[liopoil]

ashersky, you do not KNOW that mcmc is scum, just like mcmc doesn't KNOW that I'm scum (Inb4 you call that a scumslip). And many of us disagree with you that he is very scummy. You can't base reads off mcmc being scum until he has flipped scum.

I'm quite satisfied with a xeiron lynch, but I'm not about to say that Eevee is towny because xeiron, who I think is scum, wanted to lynch him before. I'll say that eevee is towny if we lynch xeiron and he flips town. (yes I know, bussing, but I lean towards not in this case)

[ashersky]

ashersky, you do not KNOW that mcmc is scum, just like mcmc doesn't KNOW that I'm scum (Inb4 you call that a scumslip). And many of us disagree with you that he is very scummy. You can't base reads off mcmc being scum until he has flipped scum.

You can't think of an edge case here?  This town is terrible.

[yuma]

I've reread ash previously and found him on the slightly town side. Since then he has been very focused on mcmc, even going so far as calling them out as a pair... I dont' know about that and as I said before mcmc/lio aren't as high on my reads as other players and I lean more that they are town v town or scum v town than scum v scum at this point... but my disagreeing doesn't make ash scum. But what I have noticed is that he isn't arguing as much today as yesterday or in other games in general. He seems to be a bit more calm and calculated? Although he does call out a ridiculous scum slip again on mcmc... and his last post is a bit more on the angry!ash side. So I could see ash here being scum trying to maintain some of his "persona" that we have come to expect from him, but only doing just enough to not make any huge waves and attract attention. I still think he is a bit scummy for being the lone player to support all 3 day1 wagons at the end...

This just pisses me off.  HOW MANY TIMES DO I GET TO BE CALLED SCUMMY FOR NOT BEING SCUMMY ENOUGH?  I get it, I'm scummy in like every game ever.  But if I make any effort at all to be better at being town and helping, I get caled scummy for it because "he's not arguing enough" or "he's too calm" or "hmmm, he isn't being scummy, he must be scum!"  Eevee did this to me in Bankers.  This happens every game and it is getting ridiculous.

Dude that isn't what I am saying... don't over react! I am not saying that your being too calm makes you scum... No. What I am saying is that the handful of things that I think of as "classic" ash look a bit more forced... that you are indeed trying to maintain a "persona." The calling out the scum slip, the blatant tunneling. Look, I am all for you trying to change your game style. Really. I am. Because your town meta drives me crazy and I honestly think that most of the time it is not beneficial to town. I am sorry and I am not trying to offend but this is the truth. Look at Bankers. You were right there! Completely on the ball! You nailed down the scum team, but the way in which you played: angry, defensive, tunneling, reactive, self voting, etc, etc, etc distracted everyone from listening to you. You are right when you say that we should actually listen to you, but it is hard when so distracted. But this is all beside the point.... What I am saying here is that in this game you are either 1. kinda changing your play style or 2. you are scum trying to put forward enough of your former play style to not turn any heads. What I really find you scummy for is supporting all 3 wagons day1 and am starting to find you more scummy for your arguments on mcmc (both of these things have very little to do with your meta or potentially changing meta and more to do with general scum behavior). So no I am not saying "he isn't being scummy, he must be scum." What I am saying is that his play style is different than usual. I wonder why? And then I am saying that aside from that you have done some scummy things! Hence you being on the scummy side. Now however, you making this whole conversation more about your meta is scummy. Because you don't address what is actually scummy and just distract and dilute my whole point about you!

Yes, I've been focused on mcmc all D2.  Can you not think of a good town reason why this could be?  Really?  I haven't been this towny since DS9, man.  I'm doing my best to help town win a freaking game, given it's been so long, and the only time we win is when I mod, so I'm doing my best to fix it, and I'm doing a damn good job, if you would just listen to me.  Not just hear me, but really listen to what I've been saying.

I don't blame you for just focusing on mcmc. I blame the way that you are doing it... tying lio and mcmc together in a nice pretty package.

The scum slip isn't ridiculous.  It isn't a "0% chance of flipping town" sort of scumslip.  It's a sign that he's scum and can't quite hide it sort of scumslip.

No it is ridiculous. It is ridiculous because most of these slips (I would say in the 95% range are absolutely garbage. Let's look at the actual quote from mcmc shall we, highlighting the part you say was a slip?

I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)

Obviously mcmc is here talking about a hypothetical world in which he and lio are scum partners. Obviously in this hypothetical world he is going to be saying something to the sort of "if one of you flips scum" because that is the very point he is trying to make. How else can he make that point w/o using that sort of language.

now if you want to talk about the scumminess of using such hypothetical situations as a defense... the "this is/isn't what I would do if I were scum" argument I am all ears... but you dont' bring up that point at all and instead it is just a "scum slip"

You, yuma, are being obtuse.  Maybe it's to get reactions, I don't know.  I've refrained from saying this, since I know how much you hate it, but here it is again: yuma very well may be scum because he's being so towny. 

I am being obtuse? Obtuse? How so? And if so, wouldn't that completely contradict what you are saying about me immediately below. Because how is me being difficult and slow and annoying (because that is how I define the word obtuse) so "towny." If I am being slow and annoying I am most certainly not being "towny."

He's being towny and leading town (even when he's trying not to lead town by passing the buck to Robz) and we all know scum!yuma does that.  Go see every game ever in teh history of time.  When yuma is towny, he's scum.  Good luck arguing against that, scummyscumscumscum.

This argument.... just sucks. You are right. I can't argue against it. I do think I am pro-town and I try to be pro-town in all my games. I was pro-town and leading in Ninjas, in Bankers and in Pirates... What alignment was I? Town! Just because I actually have a pro-town meta in both my town and mafia games... compared to yours which... well isn't... doesn't mean that I am automatically scum when I am pro-town. That is just dumb and evidence is obviously to the contrary on this. So I don't know how you can just say "scummyscumscumscum" and be done with it. It doesn't work that way and you know it.

No you are the one being obtuse and I can't help but wonder if you decided to fly off the handle after I said that it was unusual because you weren't...

[liopoil]

edge case? you mean like a PR or fake claim or the like that confirms him as scum to you? sure, possible I guess.

[yuma]

as for your post about my response about you and eevee. I'll answer that in a bit. Right now I am going to watch some arrested development with the wife.

[liopoil]

I've never seen scum!ash. what's he like?

[ashersky]

Dude that isn't what I am saying... don't over react! I am not saying that your being too calm makes you scum... No. What I am saying is that the handful of things that I think of as "classic" ash look a bit more forced... that you are indeed trying to maintain a "persona." The calling out the scum slip, the blatant tunneling. Look, I am all for you trying to change your game style. Really. I am. Because your town meta drives me crazy and I honestly think that most of the time it is not beneficial to town. I am sorry and I am not trying to offend but this is the truth. Look at Bankers. You were right there! Completely on the ball! You nailed down the scum team, but the way in which you played: angry, defensive, tunneling, reactive, self voting, etc, etc, etc distracted everyone from listening to you. You are right when you say that we should actually listen to you, but it is hard when so distracted. But this is all beside the point.... What I am saying here is that in this game you are either 1. kinda changing your play style or 2. you are scum trying to put forward enough of your former play style to not turn any heads. What I really find you scummy for is supporting all 3 wagons day1 and am starting to find you more scummy for your arguments on mcmc (both of these things have very little to do with your meta or potentially changing meta and more to do with general scum behavior). So no I am not saying "he isn't being scummy, he must be scum." What I am saying is that his play style is different than usual. I wonder why? And then I am saying that aside from that you have done some scummy things! Hence you being on the scummy side. Now however, you making this whole conversation more about your meta is scummy. Because you don't address what is actually scummy and just distract and dilute my whole point about you!

This is a really long paragraph to say "ash, you suck at this game because while you catch scum as town, we all think you are lying scum when you are town so fix it felix or gtfo."  Perhaps the way I catch scum is through my interactions with others, including how they react to me?  As you bring up Bankers, I would point you to the day or two where it was me vs. Ozle vs. you.  In the end, I was wrong about Ozle.  But man I was so convinced.  That was based on reads and interactions and reactions.  Did that invalidate the rest of my play that game?  Unfortunately so, and scum won.  I got that.  It was frustrated.  So I sat out a game (Pirates II) (which I hadn't done in ages), took stock.  And here I really, really have a chance to help town win, and I did try to be a bit more approachable and believable, but I got shit for it anyway.  It only took to Day 2 to get called out for not being scummy enough.  I cannot win.  I'm waiting for Eevee to FoS me for not self-voting.

As for addressing what you feel are scummy actions:  I did vote on all three possible wagons on D1.  I don't think that's scummy.  I think not voting is scummy.  Voting is leaving a record, and is making a statement.  It's trackable.  It isn't smart as scum to be all over the wagons.  I disagree with that point.  And I ask you, again, to rethink my "tunnel" on mcmc and ask why I might be doing that.  When I tunneled Ozle, I was wrong, but I was town.  My reasons on mcmc are better than when I was a VT in Bankers.

I don't blame you for just focusing on mcmc. I blame the way that you are doing it... tying lio and mcmc together in a nice pretty package.

See above on mcmc.  As for "tying the package" I do think through possible interactions when scumhunting.  Don't you?  Scum!mcmc would bus in a heartbeat, especially like this.  And especially without lio reacting at all to it.  You don't see that interaction as off?

The scum slip isn't ridiculous.  It isn't a "0% chance of flipping town" sort of scumslip.  It's a sign that he's scum and can't quite hide it sort of scumslip.

No it is ridiculous. It is ridiculous because most of these slips (I would say in the 95% range are absolutely garbage. Let's look at the actual quote from mcmc shall we, highlighting the part you say was a slip?

I'm town you wrong. Also I said that I reread eevee(town) in pirates(I was scum) and made a case on him the same way. So I was saying if it looked alot like my scum case on eevee that was why. Also omg liopoil and me are a scum team!!!!! I would not by any means make this case if that was so. I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad. It shows connection if one of you flips scum(I have talked about tying to a townie all the time) However I agree liopoil is scummy the way he is responding with no omgus(He used to, I think he's better now)

Obviously mcmc is here talking about a hypothetical world in which he and lio are scum partners. Obviously in this hypothetical world he is going to be saying something to the sort of "if one of you flips scum" because that is the very point he is trying to make. How else can he make that point w/o using that sort of language.

now if you want to talk about the scumminess of using such hypothetical situations as a defense... the "this is/isn't what I would do if I were scum" argument I am all ears... but you dont' bring up that point at all and instead it is just a "scum slip"

If you are going to use the "hypothetical world" argument to defend people, no one will ever be lynched.  This is all hypothetical world stuff.  We're trying to catch people lying by looking at what they say and figuring it out out of context.  That's why scum always underposts.  Too much text and its too easy to get caught.  Maybe you don't like it that I use the lingo "scumslip" when referring to what I see as a specific line in a post that points to a player being caught scum.  Maybe you want scumslips to be where someone actually accidentally says "derp I'm scum" but guess what, that hardly ever happens.  Instead, you get stuff like the quote above, where a little slip of grammar can just maybe provide insight into a player's thought process.

If lio is mcmc's partner, he can't NOT remember that.  So "I do not bus teammates like this because it is bad" can be a scumslip because why didn't he say "I would not bus teammates like that because it is bad"?  See the difference there?  It's slight, but reads and says something different to the reader.  Those are the things I look for when scumhunting.

I don't think the "I wouldn't do this" arguments are scummy.  They're normal.  You have to fall back on those anyway.  It's the way he said it that makes me wonder.  Is it foolproof?  Of course not.  It could be typing quickly on a phone and not thinking about it.  But it could be his subconscious betraying him.

I am being obtuse? Obtuse? How so? And if so, wouldn't that completely contradict what you are saying about me immediately below. Because how is me being difficult and slow and annoying (because that is how I define the word obtuse) so "towny." If I am being slow and annoying I am most certainly not being "towny."

He's being towny and leading town (even when he's trying not to lead town by passing the buck to Robz) and we all know scum!yuma does that.  Go see every game ever in teh history of time.  When yuma is towny, he's scum.  Good luck arguing against that, scummyscumscumscum.

This argument.... just sucks. You are right. I can't argue against it. I do think I am pro-town and I try to be pro-town in all my games. I was pro-town and leading in Ninjas, in Bankers and in Pirates... What alignment was I? Town! Just because I actually have a pro-town meta in both my town and mafia games... compared to yours which... well isn't... doesn't mean that I am automatically scum when I am pro-town. That is just dumb and evidence is obviously to the contrary on this. So I don't know how you can just say "scummyscumscumscum" and be done with it. It doesn't work that way and you know it.

No you are the one being obtuse and I can't help but wonder if you decided to fly off the handle after I said that it was unusual because you weren't...

I think you are being obtuse in your argument against me, while using it and other posts to align town on your side against me.  It's what you do.  You may do it as town, but you DEFINITELY do it as scum.  It's your superscumpower inherited at birth or whatever.  You have a "pro-town" meta, and it makes you way more dangerous to us town than mine.  The old adage about Robz that says if he hasn't died by D2, he's scum?  That's becoming about you now.

[ashersky]

I've never seen scum!ash. what's he like?

Good at being scum!ash is Mafia Noir RMM.  Easily caught scum!ash was Chicken Mafia and Switch Mafia.

[Robz888]

Ugh, I'm still way behind in this, and unlikely to catch up until at least tomorrow. Deadline not for a while, right?