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Author Topic: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)  (Read 177597 times)

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Swowl

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #450 on: September 16, 2021, 05:10:15 pm »

Ok here. More accurately Iím at the airport but I have the last day and a half loaded up on my phone so I will read on the flight and then jump in.
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EFHW

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #451 on: September 16, 2021, 05:15:35 pm »

I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #452 on: September 16, 2021, 06:33:57 pm »

I think this is rightÖ

Vote count 1.WCD

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1):  LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #453 on: September 16, 2021, 08:24:47 pm »

I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #454 on: September 16, 2021, 08:56:12 pm »

Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here).

Ah yes, this game I really tried to put in more effort than normal, as indicated here:

Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.

If you look at my whole game, I have several flurries of activity in the form of wallpost re-reads wherein I try to follow this plan. After the point you mentioned, I made one long post responding point-by-point to joth, and two smaller posts responding to hypercube, and then continued what I'd been previously doing.
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Dylan32

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
« Reply #455 on: September 16, 2021, 09:27:14 pm »

As Lime Green looked back at the door, the lights faded out. Just before their vision completely vanished, they saw the silhouette of somebody slowly approaching...

Vote Count 1.5

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
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Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 14 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104, M119, M126, RMM56, M133, M134, RMM58, RMM59, RMM61, RMM60; Losses 15 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, RMM47 M109, M110, M120, M127, M129, M131, M132, M136; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #456 on: September 16, 2021, 09:41:21 pm »

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #457 on: September 16, 2021, 09:45:49 pm »

Also, and I can't stress this enough, I have felt zero pressure this game from faust or MiX's votes. The most pressure I've felt is from EFHW, since she made a reasonable point that I could very much see people agreeing with and exiling me for.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #458 on: September 16, 2021, 09:48:16 pm »

The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

Are you only going by faust's examples? Do you agree with them?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #459 on: September 16, 2021, 10:03:50 pm »

I'm looking through some previous games, and the relevance of this made me laugh:

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

That's more like it. :P
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #460 on: September 16, 2021, 11:07:00 pm »

The game that came to mind as feeling the most like this one for me is Mafia and the Chocolate Factory. Admittedly that was a very long time ago, and I played a good game that game (would have been MVP if Town had won); I'm not suggesting I'm playing a good game this game.

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.

The game included arguments such as this (note that Robz was also Town):

Jimm, I really think is scum.

First off, this is a level of activity I've never seen from Jimm, or least not in recent memory. Jimm is usually town, he usually is pleasant, psuedo-lurking. He's very active here, and this questioning strategy, I've never seen from him. I've been on him since the beginning because of our exchange over me being considered an IC.

Thoughts...

Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
...

It's abnormal because he's scum. Go with the simple explanation!

It's not just that town Jimm is a lurker, it's that his content is mild and unmemorable and inoffensive.

Here, you have been in the driver's seat, and you are raising questions like I've never seen from you before. Yo are different, AND you had the scummy reaction to the prospective Morgrim lynch.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #461 on: September 16, 2021, 11:10:17 pm »

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.

Whoops, just realised I put the same quote in twice. The "starting Day 2" post should be:

Sorry, behind again. I was mid-way through catching up when the site went down. At this stage the case on raerae seems a bit of a stretch to me but I'll try to look into it more tomorrow night.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #462 on: September 16, 2021, 11:19:26 pm »

because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

Nothing about my game has been careful. I am definitely capable of playing the careful scum game. Picking a fight with faust of all people is not the way to do that.
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Swowl

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #463 on: September 17, 2021, 01:01:35 am »

I am home and I am caught up. I spent the flight reading, and I have thoughts, but I have been traveling all day. Many apologies, but I need 8 hours and I will get thoughts out first thing in the morning.

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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #464 on: September 17, 2021, 01:22:34 am »

I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
You are free to offer up a better example.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #465 on: September 17, 2021, 01:27:37 am »

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #466 on: September 17, 2021, 01:28:19 am »

You are free to offer up a better example.

I have; regardless a better example is not necessary to justify that something is a bad example.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #467 on: September 17, 2021, 01:28:54 am »

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

You're free to offer up a better example  :P
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #468 on: September 17, 2021, 02:58:00 am »

What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #469 on: September 17, 2021, 03:01:26 am »


I started thinking, "Maybe I should try this sort of thing in my next scum game, so I can point to this game as a defense," but then was like, "Nope."
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #470 on: September 17, 2021, 03:42:29 am »

Vote: MiX
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Jimmmmm

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #471 on: September 17, 2021, 03:44:03 am »

Examining this case.

Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town. The overinflated townread on me. The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology). Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum.


The Townread posts I found:

Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm

I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?


I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.

But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.


He waa obviously scum last game. There are key differences in town!faust and scum!faust that makes this strategy pro-town.

I can't pretend to understand MiX's initial Townread on faust or how serious it was. After that it was the Town v Town conclusion, which is not an unreasonable takeaway from an argument. I'm not seeing the overinflation, but perhaps one of them can help me read between the lines.


I guess the "exile all lurkers" thing is referring to this?

Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).

Thanks.

We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

This seems to be wanting to exile someone other than those who have already been suspected. While there's a correlation between activity and being suspected, I'm not sure this is the same as "exile all lurkers".

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #472 on: September 17, 2021, 04:48:33 am »

I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #473 on: September 17, 2021, 04:57:17 am »

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.
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faust

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Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #474 on: September 17, 2021, 04:59:18 am »

I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).
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