Ok, more to come, but here's the most interesting coherent narrative I found in my re-read: Jimmm is very concerned that people are scumreading EFHW but at the same time is trying really hard to look nonchalant about it. Here's a bunch of evidence of that:
Thought so far...
-I'm not sure that I'm capable of forming Day 1 reads in a game this big. It's very difficult to keep track of who's who, especially when most posts happen overnight for me.
-I'm hella confused about the flavour and bringers and breakers and runners and dancers (although to be fair I seem to have somehow missed the details provided in #2 until now).
- I have no opinion about Eddie.
- I expect that the distribution of scum in houses is completely random.
- I expect that scum kills do not cost spheres.
- EFHW's stealing pact suggestion seems reasonable, and I'm inclined to give her a small amount of Town points for it. I think generally speaking (assuming scum kills don't cost spheres), having more spheres around is good for Town. If scum get their kills for free, then whatever they can get from the spheres is probably worth less than the opportunity of Townies to get results and stop kills. So while it doesn't cost spheres to steal, it costs spheres to prevent stealing. However I agree that each house should come to consensus among themselves, as it will be a heck of a lot easier to do with so many fewer voices.
- joth's suggestion of a no-lynch sounds reasonable in theory, but in practice early no-lynches just make the game more difficult. I don't think it was a scummy suggestion.
This post from Jimmmm seems worth surfacing, as it feels like it could be a partner defense -- heavily downplayed and couched in the middle of a post about other things, so as to keep it from being obvious.
Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.
Man, I thought I had a shot at being first, and now I'm not even 2nd... I think my assumption with a game this big is that there is probably 3rd party regardless of setup posts, I mean come on 18 people is massive!
This would be a ballsy post if he's 3rd party. So I'd say he's less likely than average to be.
It is? I was thinking of suggesting a no stealing pact to my housemates.
Scum would have no problem breaking that pact, and town (in my mind) would be suspicious of the others in their house since there's no reason for there not to be at least 1 scum or non-town person in your house. The trust here could be scummy, rather, it's scummy enough for a D1 Vote: EFHW.
This is a stretchy vote at best. EFHW didn't say, "We should all have a no stealing pact". She was thinking of suggesting it. It seems a reasonable thing to discuss within a house, even if it ends up being a bad idea. I'm mostly willing to chalk this vote up to it being early Day 1 in which it's okay to vote for someone just for disagreeing with them about something.
I don't understand how this makes sense. Scum overall spends more stormlight anyway because they can do both town and scum things.
What makes you think the factional abilities scum has would cost stormlight the same way the knight radiant powers do? And what "scum things" (emphasis on the plural "things") can scum do in addition to the factional kill and surge powers? Scumslip? Vote: MiX
Ehh. I don't have a problem with this vote, but I don't agree that it was a scumslip, just an assumption about the setup. If MiX had a wrong assumption and had it corrected by being scum, he would be more careful about giving that information away.
Most of the rest of Dylan's early posts are setup-related, discussing possible house plans etc, which I don't think is interesting or alignment-indicative.
As for the whole Dustbringer thing, I don't have a strong opinion on that either way, but I think Dylan comes out of it looking mildy Towny, and mildly Towny is where I would put him.
Wow, Jim's second post of the game -- same thing. Soft little defense of EFHW couched in the middle of a big post.
Yes YES the tiger is out!
EFHW: Lean scum. Mostly gut at this point. I’ve never seen town EFHW, but she feels the same as she did in Ashersky’s game.
faust: Lean scum. He started out strong. However, he’s been throwing really persistent shade in my direction lately. No suspicion, per se, just trying to imply that my reads and play are not to be trusted. (see the end of #325, then it ramped up in #526, #582). What’s the change? I think it’s my case on GHS. I suspect faust is doing the “defend one buddy while attacking another buddy” tactic, and GHS is the buddy he is defending. (Who’s he attacking? EFHW). I also think he is a little more derisive toward people in general this game than I’ve seen him be; using his charisma to create an acidic atmosphere that is non-conducive to town finding each other and trusting each other.
GreatHallScout: Scum. That readlist, man.
How seriously are you calling out a 3-man team here?
Jimmm continues to be concerned with people scumreading EFHW.
faust
There are a lot more note-worthy posts here than for other re-reads. I have them saved if I need to use them down the track, but I'm not going to use them now; I'll just give my overall thoughts.
I'd like to know why faust is scumreading and calling for votes on EFHW. Is that still a thing?
I'm not convinced that the Dustbringer thing was pro-Town, but I don't think it makes faust scummy.
faust's feeling on Galz, cayvie and the GHS wagon are somewhat similar to mine.
I need to better understand the whole Eddie/Dylan thing.
Overall I would put faust as moderately Towny. I'm not sure I would ever fully trust him because I think he's more than capable of seeming very Towny as scum, but I'm not interesting in lynching him Today.
And again. Ok, maybe Jim defends EFHW too much to be her partner. BUT MAYBE NOT. After all those soft sly defenses, his dedicated re-read of EFHW is, surprisingly, expressing a scum read.
EFHW
vote: joth. No lynch seems bad for town and his reasons were strange.
Fine and null early vote.
And actually, this brings up a good point on the whole claiming house idea. It would be beneficial for anyone to be the last person standing in their house, as they could recharge spheres freely without risk of theft (barring secondary, role-related methods of theft). So as soon as that knowledge is out there, it could affect how people vote (and how scum kills). So we should not claim to get true reads and opinions out before anyone can start trying to use that knowledge strategically.
ppe several
On the other hand, this is a townslip.
Vote: cayvie
Townslip? It's pretty scummy to be planning to kill players because they are in your house regardless of alignment.
Are you saying that Dylan is scummy for this, or just that it's not a Townslip?
vote: hypercube
Was this just for agreeing with faust's Dustbringer plan?
Have we heard from Eddie about Dylan's report on their QT? I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.
I'm very confused about Dylan saying he didn't full claim to Eddie. What is left to claim? Was there more Eddie wanted included?
I'm still trying to understand the whole Eddie thing. Did either one of them say that Dylan part-claimed? Did Dylan house-claim at some point? I don't think Dylan saying he didn't full-claim implies that he part-claimed; I take it to mean that he didn't claim. My understanding is that full-claiming to Eddie is in official action one must choose to take, whether or not Eddie already knows the details of that player's claim?
No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.
Scumslip here? Or 3rd party slip? Knowing someone's order does not tell you the special power that goes with it.
Regarding this and Didds' post, is the suggestion that House and Order is not a full-claim unless it also includes what that Order's unique power is, or that because some player/s claim to have one or more extra abilities as Town therefore all Town must? I'm not sure the first is much more than semantics, and the second seems to be a huge assumption and requires something close to a massclaim to verify. I guess the second is moot now since the IC has provided a counter-example.
Why wouldn't a town!neighbor tell us the whole story of what Eddie wanted?
What are you trying to gain from this? Surely if Town neighbours are keeping quiet it's because they have a reason to. Do you think any scum among them would be caught out if they had to open up about it (genuine question)? I doubt that any scum not aligned with Eddie (whether or not he's 3rd party) have given anything away to him they didn't want to.
vote: MiX.
Ppe: Still want to vote MiX.
Why? For disagreeing that Rhand scumslipped? For not revealing more about the Eddie business?
vote: Didds. Possible third party slip and over-emphasis on being pro-town. Why should Eddie be pro-town if he is a third party? We haven't heard any confirmation that he changed alignment.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the Didds scumslip was disproved by Glooble (#835). Did you miss that or was the scumslip about something else?
With the pro-Town thing, are you talking about #954? Is there a reason why it's scummy, or is this just a vote to express your disagreement? Why in particular would scum complain about a 3rd party not being pro-Town?
So... some scummy things here. Scumpoints for votes on hypercube and MiX without explanation. More for seemingly being fixed on scumslips and in particular 3rd party slips (with Eddie already being 3rd party, both Didds and Rhand have been accused of 3rd party slipping - that's a lot of parties!), and for using it as a reason to vote for Didds even after it was disproved by the IC. Overall I'm inclined to put her down as mild-moderate scum.
I hope this doesn't invalidate all the work I've done on this. I will say at this point it seems like EFHW is relatively "safe". But still, seems weird to be so paranoid about her lynch and then suddenly bus. Although, worth noting, this scum read is not paired with a vote. The vote comes later and it's for Galz:
9/16 rereads (not counting Glooble). Here's my summary so far:
Moderate Town
faust
Mild Town
Dylan
Null
GHS
Mild scum
LaLight
joth
Eddie
chairs
Mild-Moderate scum
EFHW
Moderate scum
Galz
It occurs to me that this is weighted towards mild scum.
It's becoming apparent that I'm not going to finish before deadline without it becoming a major case of going through the motions. I'll check the votecount tomorrow and prioritise whoever seems viable. For now, Vote: Galz.
Here's his EFHW vote:
Sure, looks like this is far more likely than Galz. Vote: EFHW (L-5)
He is quick to express willingness to switch back:
Vote: Galzria
Competing wagons!
Not really, I'm off it now so it's you and Didds. Would move back if it got more support though.
Ok, now this is really interesting. Jimm has previously said he's probably done with his re-reads. But look, he found time to do a hypercube re-read just as a viable counterwagon on hypercube was forming. If only it ended with a vote.
hypercube
None of his really early game particularly interest me; talk about cults and alignment changes and houses. Gives a few stances on people which is fine and good.
I don't want to comment on things related to Eddie before Eddie does, but rereading the part of the game where Dylan claimed made him look a lot worse than I remembered.
He seems uninterested in the benefits of identifying a potential scum Dustbringer or inhibiting their ability to use their powers, like here:
As there can be multiple people in a given order, no one else should claim Dustbringer or not. Then if someone claims it later, use the spheres to use reporter to prove it. A Dustbringers claim without reporter is scum.
I don't think this point is saying anything other than finding someone scummy for disagreeing about something.
I think that if a town!Dustbringer claimed here they would be more likely to want to force a claim from any other Dustbringers. They'd understand that the Dustbringer powers are pretty scum-sided and that since they're town an other Dustbringer is more likely to be scum.
People have very different ideas about what claiming plans should happen; this is far more of an individual thing than it is an alignment tell. And the second part is either a probability fallacy or an unfounded assumption about how roles/alignments were distributed.
Here he says he didn't considered the possibility of a scum Dustbringer at all:
Ooh, good point. Yeah, I think it would work that way. However, this is assuming that scum could roll this order. A scum with extra vig power does seem maybe unbalanced. And looking back, I don't see anything that says whether the alignment of individuals in a given order is random or assigned or random in limited fashion, only that the numbers in each are random.
He explains this oversight with a misunderstanding of the setup, which doesn't say that the numbers are random, just that they aren't uniform across the orders. It's certainly possible for someone to misread the setup, but less likely that they'd misread it again after going back to correct themself.
I don't think this was an oversight or a misreading. I think "Can scum be Vigs?" is a very reasonable question to ponder, and he checked the setup to see if there was anything to indicate they couldn't and found nothing.
I also don't think that there was a pressing force for him to claim when he did; less than half of everyone had claimed at that point. If he had serious objections to claiming he had time to bring them up and be convinced that a scum Dustbringer could exist. I think it's more likely that he's scum and claimed in hopes that that would make him look towny.
vote: Dylan
Well sure, there was no one saying "Dylan it's your turn to claim", but if the number of claimers was approaching half of the players, then the claiming is well and truly happening.
Also, I think cayvie's reaction to Dylan's claim was kind of strange, they bring up some good questions about how and why Dylan claimed but don't scumread him for it because of the use of spheres to make the mod-posted message. I admit I also found the claim more towny than maybe I should have because of that message, though.
Questions != scumread. cayvie's questions (that I found): "hey Dylan, what's this?", "why is pushing back on this impossible?" (etc, to Galz), "was [message] the message you had the mods post... could you have made the mods post [anything you wanted]?". She also mentioned that scum can work together to claim Dustbringer. The only question I'm seeing that could be more than just information-seeking is the one to Galz, and well at least two people agreed that it was too late to prevent the claiming. So I'm not sure what would lead you to believe that cayvie should have scumread Dylan for this.
So... I don't really agree with any of this post.
Do you think he's not a Dustbringer?
If he's scum it's possible he's not a Dustbringer and someone else on the scum team is. That's less likely than him just being a scum Dustbringer though.
The first sentence seems to be a hugely unlikely conspiracy theory. If Dylan flips scum non-Dustbringer then we know one of his teammates is one. If someone else flips scum Dustbringer then we can ask Dylan to re-prove his reporter ability. Scum don't tell lies that can easily be found out just for the sake of it. Of course scum Dustbringer is more likely, but that just makes the claim NAI.
So, I disagree with a lot of hypercube's reasons for voting, but how much that correlates to scumminess I'm still trying to figure out. Seems like a fine lynch.
And then he sort of peaces out and doesn't come back before deadline. So, Jimmmm's play is very scummy but he ultimately ends up on the EFHW wagon and doesn't participate in either of the counterwagons (thought he seems to set himself up to). I think if Jim is scum, he might be scum that missed the deadline by accident, or showed up before deadline, saw that there was nothing he could do without coming off super scummy, and then left. I do think he's probably the scummiest person on the EFHW wagon by a mile.
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Topic: RMM56: Stormlight Archive Mafia (Game Over!) (Read 262227 times)