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[UmbrageOfSnow]

Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:

Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.

And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.

[Jimmmmm]

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

[Jimmmmm]

realised*

[MiX]

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

UoS is town.

I'll have to look at Didds' wall post later, for now I'll do this.

[Jimmmmm]

@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?

No, not at all. I find I need things to respond to, and D1 typically doesn't do a good job at providing that. Not that I'm blaming anyone but myself.

It's been a while since I've been scum, but I've had some pretty good scum games in the past, so I think I'm seen as a fairly strong scum player. Scum scum scum.

[Jimmmmm]

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

[MiX]

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

[Glooble]

What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

I never said day one was useless. I said day one lynches are essentially random. That's not the same thing at all. The reasoning people give, the reads they express on each other, when votes get thrown around and for who - all of this is extremely useful, and gets more useful as the game goes on and its given context by concrete information.

On day one, we don't have that context. All we have are reads. And competent scum players can fool those a lot more easily than they can fool other scumhunting techniques that don't become viable until later in the game.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Day 1 lynches aren't random though.

The more we assume there's no information to go off, the more random they become, but it isn't doomed to be that way. It's that way because people say, over and over and over "Day one is basically random, we have no information."

Good town have reads that are better than random. If scum are lynched Day 1, they (rightfully) lose the majority of games where scum is lynched on Day 1.

And the better we try to play on Day 1, the more scum have to commit to driving mislynches, which is good later on.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

MiX is hard to follow as town and presumably hard to follow as scum. I think he thinks differently than a lot of us.

Right now I think he'll be one of the players that's much easier to sort once we have some flips.

I'd say I don't want to lynch him Day 1 unless he basically scumclaims, but then we get into the don't lynch newbies Day 1, don't lynch good players Day 1, don't lynch hard-to-sort (Awaclus, MiX, Jimmm, Robz) Day 1 and pretty soon we can't lynch anyone.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

What else do you feel I've misrepresented?

[Robz888]

There's a chickenwarlord in this game? Vote: Chickenwarlord

[Uncleeurope]

What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

UoS is town.

Not necessarily, the one thing I have learned about Snow from all these years is he loves a good rant, rants that he can replicate in any situation.

Not to say he is scum from this, just that ranting is Snow!Snow

IMO anyway.

Vote: Awaclus

Because it would happen eventually.

[Glooble]

Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

What else do you feel I've misrepresented?

Just that one, really.

MiX is hard to follow as town and presumably hard to follow as scum. I think he thinks differently than a lot of us.

Right now I think he'll be one of the players that's much easier to sort once we have some flips.

I'd say I don't want to lynch him Day 1 unless he basically scumclaims, but then we get into the don't lynch newbies Day 1, don't lynch good players Day 1, don't lynch hard-to-sort (Awaclus, MiX, Jimmm, Robz) Day 1 and pretty soon we can't lynch anyone.

Why wouldn’t we lynch players who are hard to sort? Granted I’ve played one game with Awaclus, but in that one game 1. He was scum, 2. I kept saying he was scum, 3. People kept saying “nah, that’s just Awaclus being Awaclus har har.”

[Glooble]

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

[Jimmmmm]

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

That's more like it.

[raerae]

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I feel like I actually have a good track record with Jimmmmm and Awaclus. I want to say that about Robz but I'm not sure, I remember being right about scum Robz once, and then I know I've helped mislynch Robz a few times, but both those times I think I had an early townread on him and then grew to doubt it.

I think those players are more sortable the more game you have to go on.

I'd prefer to lynch scummiest player on Day 1, and being willing to lynch anyone makes it exciting.

[MiX]

MiX confuses me frequently. This is not all that interesting necessarily, but I do find it happening over and over again so I am going to say something now in case it starts happening when it matters. I find him really hard to follow. I don't think I think the same way he does about things, and it seems different than a wordsy person v. mathsy person distinction. I wonder if the experience of playing really fast games is significant? I am also troubled by the fact that he pays close attention to some posts and then glosses others. Why the selective attention paying? But he's new and I'd rather be friendlier than not at the outset, but still seems not quite right.

Now that I got around to read Didds' wall post, I just want to say that, although I don't answer to literally every post, I use them to write a little document with what said posts had and how they shape my reads on people. If you have a post that you think I missed, please quote which one.

What do you think about shraeye/UoS/Glooble? Do you think they're towny, scummy or null for their setup talk?

@UoS, that is a...very good case on faust. Very interesting. The only problem is that I felt the same thing: Uncle needs to die eventually, why not now, oh right, we can just postpone it. But I'm not sure faust would think the same way as me...

@Chicken, at this point I feel like voting for you to see if you wake up, I know that in my first game, I wanted to make a big impression, I believe you should try to do the same: it's pro town, it sets you up for future days, and it helps for future games if those ever exist. So overall it's a pretty good deal!

I want to kill you as fast as possible. WHy are you voting for the VLA guy? You make a good point for Snow, but I'm not sure scum!Snow would grab this much towncred as agressively as she is...

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

As one of these players, I don't really understand why hard-to-read players are a liability as town. They would be if their reads are bad or if they're anti town, but being hard to read is not an anti-town ability, as Awaclus would surely tell you. Oh, unless he thinks he's easy to get townread as town, in which case he's incredibly wrong.

[Glooble]

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

As one of these players, I don't really understand why hard-to-read players are a liability as town. They would be if their reads are bad or if they're anti town, but being hard to read is not an anti-town ability, as Awaclus would surely tell you. Oh, unless he thinks he's easy to get townread as town, in which case he's incredibly wrong.

If a player always comes off as scummy it makes them more likely to get mislynched when they’re town, it throws off other players reads and, as Awaclus demonstrated in RMM51, it makes it easy for them to hide behind their meta when they actually are scum.

[Awaclus]

I don't always come off as scummy.

[Glooble]

I don't always come off as scummy.

So far I’m not actually reading you as scummy this game. Hence why I’m voting for Jimmmmm right now.

[WestCoastDidds]

Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I think I’ve played most of my games with Awa and he is almost always in lynch discussions and it’s rarely a hard sell. Interestingly, the only time I’ve played with Scum!Awa was in the last game when he seemed towny and helpful. So now I think helpfulness may be a scum behavior from him. And being obstructionist is town, but not at all helpful to town from a communal-game perspective. I’m not sure what my conclusion to these thoughts are except that it won’t take much to push an Awa lynch, which scum can use as easily as town can.

[ashersky]

joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

I don't understand the question. Anyone who targets Martok with a nightkill gets killed, whether or not that nightkill happens. Unless they get roleblocked. People that target him with something else are fine.

Yeah, I though anyone who targets the bomb is killed. I guess that’s more PGO.  It’s an acceptable Bomb variant, too, I think.

[ashersky]

I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.

Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.

What cop are you planning on exposing?