Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:29 pm

Title: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:29 pm
M133: Among Us Mafia

This is a Semi-Open Set Up Normal Game for 12 players invented by Ashersky.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.

MOD: Dylan


Sign Up List:
1. LaLight (Killed N1)
2. MiX (Killed N3
3. Swowl (Exiled D4)
4. faust
5. mathdude
6. gkrieg13 (Exiled D2)
7. Jimmmmm
8. jotheonah
9. iguanaiguana (Exiled D3)
10. EFHW (Killed N2)
11. WestCoastDidds
12. 2.71828..... (Killed N4)

Tags:

Game Tracker:
Day 1 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876510#msg876510)
Day 2 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877393#msg877393)
Day 3 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878266#msg878266)
Day 4 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878893#msg878893)
Day 5 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879369#msg879369)

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, Blue text is reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:56 pm
Setup Information


Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (“Either” Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2

C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2

D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3

Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2

Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)

Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3

Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail.  If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: LaLight on August 07, 2021, 07:10:54 am
good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on August 07, 2021, 10:58:42 am
/in

Normal games are cool too!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Swowl on August 07, 2021, 04:18:20 pm
/innnn
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2021, 01:55:33 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: ehunt on August 21, 2021, 12:38:57 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on August 21, 2021, 07:16:33 am
Ok. I'll jo/in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: ehunt on August 22, 2021, 12:06:54 am
/out, i'm sorry, will have limited availability in patches of september
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 22, 2021, 01:03:18 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 23, 2021, 08:55:05 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 31, 2021, 02:41:13 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 02, 2021, 10:15:06 pm
/out, sorry
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 09, 2021, 02:10:13 pm
Bump.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: jotheonah on September 09, 2021, 02:20:22 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 01:14:18 am
Back /in lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 01:14:32 am
I'm gonna lurk
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 10, 2021, 01:22:32 am
I'm gonna lurk

Preemptive prod issued
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: EFHW on September 10, 2021, 10:24:20 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 10, 2021, 03:49:10 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 04:18:26 pm
/in

Welcome :)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 10, 2021, 05:02:51 pm
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 10, 2021, 11:14:40 pm
/in

Welcome :)

Thanks, friend
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Galzria on September 10, 2021, 11:17:34 pm
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!

good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice

No no no - I think you’re good. LaLight in’ed twice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 11, 2021, 12:07:44 am
Yeesh, stop being a troll and hammer
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 11, 2021, 02:47:23 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:23:34 am
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!

good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice

No no no - I think you’re good. LaLight in’ed twice.

I thought about listing him twice, but I probably would have forgotten I did it until I had already locked the thread lol.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:34:20 am
Thread locked.

PMs going out now. Game will start after all players confirm in their QT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:04:23 pm
What is this ship? Where is it going? You don't know. The one thing you do know: not everyone on the ship is supposed to be here. Who are the imposters?! If only it wasn't so hard to see who (or what) is inside these colorful spacesuits...

Day 1 begins. Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (12): LaLight, MiX, Swowl, faust, mathdude, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, iguanaiguana EFHW, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on September 11, 2021, 03:30:38 pm
Let's go!

This topic should be moved. I can do it, but so can you, Dylan.

Also the topic name should probably say Day 1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 04:22:36 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? I’d like a light purple one, please.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 11, 2021, 04:29:43 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? I’d like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 11, 2021, 05:03:46 pm
heyyyy haven't been in a normal  game for a while, and this setup brings all the good memories!

vote: iguanaiguana goad to have you back!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 11, 2021, 05:04:27 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 11, 2021, 05:12:40 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

Vote: LL

This is arguably the best flavor because now no one will be obliged to do a RMM.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 11, 2021, 06:54:20 pm
Howdy all!
This started fast all of a sudden. Which is awesome, because starting tomorrow, I am sitting on a beach for like 4 days with nothinnggggg to do.



Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 11, 2021, 07:43:13 pm
Morning!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 08:41:01 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? I’d like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.

No, I just care about fashion! Light purple is universally flattering
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 08:41:51 pm
Jimmmmmmm! Hi friend! How you been? It’s been a minute.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 11, 2021, 09:11:06 pm
Jimmmmmmm! Hi friend! How you been? It’s been a minute.

Hey Didds! Not too bad. Been stuck at home under lockdown for a couple of months. Yourself?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 11, 2021, 10:01:40 pm
Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 11, 2021, 10:16:14 pm
Vote: iguana for now. More during the week hopefully.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 11, 2021, 10:22:38 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

I've also never played. But I don't know the memes. This meant nothing to me.

Vote: MiX
Because... it's MiX?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 11, 2021, 11:23:05 pm
Hi Everybody!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 01:17:40 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 12, 2021, 01:18:41 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

Given that it's a (semi)-open setup, I can't imagine so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 03:54:25 am
Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:40:03 am
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

I've also never played. But I don't know the memes. This meant nothing to me.

Vote: MiX
Because... it's MiX?

Don't worry, it means nothing to anyone.

Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

Not at all.

Vote: joth

Yeah honestly joth's probably outed scum already.

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:40:44 am
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 05:26:42 am
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:26:38 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

It seems like it’s pop culture moment is waning… You could play one game and simultaneously get it and be not impressed. It’s like speed mafia… everyone is a little dude in a colorful space suit, and the “imposters” go about killing the crew members while the crew members try to complete their tasks.. A crew member can call a conference and vote for someone to be ejected into space. It’s super fast, there is no vote count analysis and everyone is “sus” (suspicious).

The colorful space suit dudes are cute though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:28:03 am
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also I’m writhing with envy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:05:30 am
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? I’d like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.

No, I just care about fashion! Light purple is universally flattering

this is my mod color!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:06:03 am
Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.

I am ALWAYS the comod.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:08:00 am
mmhm vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:08:39 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:18:13 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:24:55 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But I’m not planning to… unless I already have? It’s all pretty subjective I suppose.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 10:30:50 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But I’m not planning to… unless I already have? It’s all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:01:36 am
I feel like I have completely missed RVS not posting the first almost 24 hours
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:08:43 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 11:16:48 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.

You mean..gkrieg?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:37:52 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.

You mean..gkrieg?

Yes. That's the one
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 12:01:03 pm
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
I mean, those were some good reasons, can't argue with myself.

Vote: iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:02:11 pm
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
I mean, those were some good reasons, can't argue with myself.

Vote: iguana

They're good reasons, but I think they're a scum play to exile town!iguana. I just can't stand by and watch him go through this.

It's too clean. Too easy. I don't see scum!iguana doing this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:06:41 pm
It was fun being IC last game, so let's be MIC this game with some effort and cases in RVS.

Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.

This is superficially scummy: iguana dodges the RVS decision with voting someone predetermined (which answers the "do I vote my partner in RVS" question which has plagued at least my mind as scum) while simultaneously avoiding being active for 3 days to see how the thread's going. However, scum!iguana would know how this looks, and could not in good faith make a post that does not make him townie.

If you look at his previous town game, he was almost upset at being so widely townread, yet I don't think that's how scum!iguana would think about the game this early into D1. He would most likely try to be in the same position as before, which implies being townread first. This post does not accomplish that, and therefore was not made by scum!iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:07:40 pm
Early wagons are great. We need another.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:10:09 pm
MiX analyzes my post in great detail... but misses that I was making a throwback to how I started the last game by voting for the comod for three days straight?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:12:02 pm
MiX analyzes my post in great detail... but misses that I was making a throwback to how I started the last game by voting for the comod for three days straight?

That's what I meant by "voting someone predetermined".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:14:30 pm
I think I predetermine my first post in every game I play. That's how I ended up voting Lalight last time. So NAI there I guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 04:24:42 pm
Early wagons are great. We need another.

Vote: Joth

You wanted a 3rd wagon? Or you didn't like MiX as a 2nd wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 12, 2021, 04:28:30 pm
I think I predetermine my first post in every game I play. That's how I ended up voting Lalight last time. So NAI there I guess.

But when you do it, you are more likely town, so I guess I have to townread you for it. unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 04:29:55 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But I’m not planning to… unless I already have? It’s all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?

Claiming town is meaningless, but I guess I can do it if you want me to.

Ahem

I am town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:34:15 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But I’m not planning to… unless I already have? It’s all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?

Claiming town is meaningless, but I guess I can do it if you want me to.

Ahem

I am town

I believe you.

Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 04:35:40 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. She’s got scary mind control skills. (Also, I’m still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:37:32 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. She’s got scary mind control skills. (Also, I’m still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Considering they were caught for basically no reason D2, I disagree with this statement.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 05:15:12 pm
Caught but not exiled! Super powers!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 12, 2021, 07:48:37 pm
The crew was all gathered around the cafeteria table trying to figure out who didn't belong. Cyan spoke up, "Well, a few people here obviously don't belong here, but since those of us who do belong already know our tasks, let's get to work. Maybe we can figure out who the imposters are by seeing who is faking it."

Day 1 begins. Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.1

iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., faust
MiX (2): mathdude, LaLight
jotheonah (1): iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (5): Swowl, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 12, 2021, 08:01:39 pm
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also I’m writhing with envy.

Cabo San Lucas!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 08:04:53 pm
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 08:15:50 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 12, 2021, 08:17:49 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:18:07 pm
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also I’m writhing with envy.

Cabo San Lucas!

Dude! That’s amazing! Is DisSwan laying on the beach, too?,
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:35:22 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. She’s got scary mind control skills. (Also, I’m still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Considering they were caught for basically no reason D2, I disagree with this statement.

This.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:37:22 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Did you guys read the mafia QT?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:40:07 pm
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 09:54:09 pm
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 10:33:58 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Did you guys read the mafia QT?

No one did… there was never a link posted
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:37:32 pm
I should post that. For the sake of everyone having info. I’ll do it in that thread tho.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:45:29 pm
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:50:52 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:48:32 am
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:50:03 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 02:03:39 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:17:30 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 02:38:29 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:29:52 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:38:26 am
Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Did you guys read the mafia QT?

Is there anything there that you'd like to be known? It matters for this game for your interaction with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:54:55 am
I read gkrieg's single post again and I realized it's either NAI or townie. Kinda forgot how gkrieg functions, or how people that are busy post in general.

Vote: joth, I think.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 05:23:23 am
Vote: joth

You've missed your chance, math!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:23:34 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Where’s the “V”?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:25:51 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.

If you must know it was a very oblique Simpson’s reference but nobody chimed in with “Hi, Doctor Nick” so there you go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:41:53 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.

If you must know it was a very oblique Simpson’s reference but nobody chimed in with “Hi, Doctor Nick” so there you go.

Isn't that "Hello"? Or was that the response? I feel like I've gotten this wrong for years...

Do you usually do things like this as town? What about as scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:51:04 am
I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 08:51:26 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Where’s the “V”?

I was talking to faust. This was your only post before he voted for you without explanation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:52:12 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Where’s the “V”?

I was talking to faust. This was your only post before he voted for you without explanation.

Oohhh got it
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 09:02:09 am
I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

Okay, okay, I get it, you're town.

Wanna RVS on someone?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:14:19 am
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 11:30:25 am
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 12:04:41 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 12:26:25 pm
For all the discussion of us not being RVS, the weekend start we've had feels very RVSy even for a normal game.

Mathdude's comments here

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

remind me a bit of when he OMGUSed me in the last game here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20798.msg875111#msg875111)

It has that same attitude of scumreading someone for reading the game differently than you. He was town there, so for right now I'm reading it as Math is town again and would want to blend in more if he was scum.

Joth and Jimmm are my biggest unknowns this game.

I vaguely remember Jim as someone who played occasionally, didn't post much, but had a reputation for being good at finding the scums with short, decisive posts. I don't remember if I've ever read a scum Jim game though...

Joth I've seen as mod and I did some reading into his old games already, but I don't know his scum meta either.

@Joth, could you point me in the direction of a scum game you are proud of?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 12:42:49 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 12:48:19 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:03:04 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 01:06:22 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:09:15 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.

yeeeah no. it's like this on paper, but in games on D1 most town wants to exile someone pretty mich the same as scum. let this someone be MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:11:06 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:13:25 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

He won a recent game, just look for it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:14:41 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:20:27 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:22:39 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

I agree with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:23:45 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Not sold on the case
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:24:58 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
If 3 posts with less than 50 words between them are enough to get a solid read on me then I definitely need to put some serious work into my scum game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:25:12 pm
I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:26:54 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
If 3 posts with less than 50 words between them are enough to get a solid read on me then I definitely need to put some serious work into my scum game.

Never said anything about a solid read, and by "good read" I mean what I believe my skill in reading you correctly in a game is, not just in early D1.

I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

Are you joth's partner?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:29:06 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:30:30 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:37:28 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

Oh whoops. I also lost Memento as scum recently. I'll keep digging for a real win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:38:59 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:40:48 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

Oh whoops. I also lost Memento as scum recently. I'll keep digging for a real win.

I also lost as mafia in RMM56. Man, I'm not great at this game am I?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:42:41 pm
Ok, here we go: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20294.0
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 01:44:07 pm
I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

But... what Joth was calling "new things" was just him opening the game by saying "Hi Everybody"

How can that possibly be a reason to not exile him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:44:51 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:49:19 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 02:01:59 pm
Hi hi! I am SWAMPED at work today so I am falling a bit behind.

I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.  I don't have any real read on math, e, Jimmmm, Swowl, or iguana.  Who else is playing? The fact that I don't know isn't a good sign.

I should be able to catch up this evening.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 02:04:49 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 02:19:19 pm
I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a “viable” wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe it’s possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagons’ sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 02:33:49 pm
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 13, 2021, 02:36:54 pm
Prod dodge.

Reading along. Will be back this evening.

Ppe Math - in my experience, yes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:53:07 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.
Wagons lead to wagon analysis which is good. Having wagons forces people to express opinions on the people that are wagoned when they might otherwise prefer to ignore them. It also forces the player that the wagon is on to engage, which also provides useful interactions.

I think if you went through the games on record you'd find that a bigger number of D1 wagons is positively correlated with town wins.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:53:44 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 02:54:50 pm
I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a “viable” wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe it’s possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagons’ sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.

I, hilariously enough, disagree. I think my role fishing in RMM60 is what allowed me to get great reads, and that there is no better way to get them in a closed RMM. In this setup, however, role fishing is very anti-town and should not be done. It does provide excellent reads, but those aren't needed since town PRs are already almost always town.

Viable wagons are in practice the only wagons, and as such are useful for VCA.

Also what faust said.

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.

8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:55:01 pm
Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.
I do not think discussing what sucm would and would not claim is a useful topic of discussion. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 04:18:22 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 13, 2021, 05:34:52 pm
"Why does this download always take so long? I just know I'm going to get stabbed in the back here," thought Red. Meanwhile, Orange walked around and saw Blue and Black together by some broken wires in the electrical room, Yellow filling up their gas can in storage, and Purple taking out the trash.

Vote Count 1.2

iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., mathdude
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): Jimmmmm
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:05:04 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:06:20 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:10:45 pm
Is there anything there that you'd like to be known? It matters for this game for your interaction with faust.
No, just offering evidence for not having super powers.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:11:48 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 06:15:42 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:32:46 pm
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:33:46 pm
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.

Here is the exhorting I mentioned in my last post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 07:50:27 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
. By this do you mean that WCD frequently scum reads you early on?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 07:51:04 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
. By this do you mean that WCD frequently scum reads you early on?

Yes, with that exact sentence.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 07:56:03 pm
@EFHW, obviously you're not voting. Any scum reads though?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:07:53 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:23:01 pm
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:23:25 pm
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

EBWOP.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 09:06:27 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:15:01 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Believe them. Or disbelieve them. Depending on your reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 09:21:09 pm
Responding to EFHW….

It is true that I scum read EFHW often. She is hard for me to read, no question. I find her cagey and super sharp, but for me the difference between scum!EFHW and town!EFHW is the quality of her questions. When she’s town, the questions are smart and incisive. When she is scum the questions don’t do much or reveal anything.

Thus far in this game, I find her questions more like the latter than the former. It’s early in the day so this could change, obvi, but since yesterday her questions have not been probing, and today she has been defensive about a tiny wagon.

The post was the scummiest to me:
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

The assumption that all the votes thus far were RVS has been discussed by faust and others who don’t think about their votes as random. So, the first assumption is flawed. And then her question isn’t incisive or probing.

It’s just seems like EFHW-lite, to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 09:28:47 pm
Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:48:58 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isn’t usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 09:52:57 pm
@EFHW, obviously you're not voting. Any scum reads though?

I'm feeling influenced by past games at the moment, so I'm trying to get oriented. It's only been one day, you know! I don't want to throw out names based on nothing. Give me some time.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 09:55:30 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 09:58:48 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isn’t usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.

I’m trying to be more confident and assertive! So, it’s true that it isn’t characteristic but that is deliberate. I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 10:00:28 pm
Responding to EFHW….

It is true that I scum read EFHW often. She is hard for me to read, no question. I find her cagey and super sharp, but for me the difference between scum!EFHW and town!EFHW is the quality of her questions. When she’s town, the questions are smart and incisive. When she is scum the questions don’t do much or reveal anything.

Thus far in this game, I find her questions more like the latter than the former. It’s early in the day so this could change, obvi, but since yesterday her questions have not been probing, and today she has been defensive about a tiny wagon.

The post was the scummiest to me:
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

The assumption that all the votes thus far were RVS has been discussed by faust and others who don’t think about their votes as random. So, the first assumption is flawed. And then her question isn’t incisive or probing.

It’s just seems like EFHW-lite, to me.

Apologies to those who don't feel they were doing RVS. I was stuck in it, so getting out of it myself was the main point of what I was saying. I actually think my question to mathdude was sufficiently incisive. Why is he calling for people to join him on the wagon at the same time he is calling it RVS, maybe, he isn't sure?

I am lacking insight into which posts sound defensive. Can you point to them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 10:02:33 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?

If you read the preceding post you'll find that Didds offered an explanation for her read on EFHW.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 10:03:45 pm
EFHW, This is the one that felt defensive to me

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.


PPE: 1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 10:05:59 pm
I don't see it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 10:07:45 pm
EFHW, This is the one that felt defensive to me

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.


PPE: 1

Hmm I can see that.

I don't see it.

From an outside perspective, the bolded statements can look defensive.

I don't think that's quite what Didds was thinking about though, at least I would be very surprised to have the same thought process as her.

Didds, what did you see in that post that made EFHW sound defensive, and why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 10:13:57 pm
It’s perception, so I think it’s fair for other people not to see it.

I see it as defensive because it begins with a deflection on the topic (MiX wanted an answer), then a shrug (I don’t play this way but some people do), then a deflection (maybe that’s what Joth vote was).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 10:25:13 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?

If you read the preceding post you'll find that Didds offered an explanation for her read on EFHW.

So, sheeping? Do you trust Didds enough to do that here? Do you feel nervous yet with 3 votes sitting on you?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 10:32:41 pm
I don't need any amount of trust to move my vote at this point.

No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 01:47:32 am
I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 02:12:58 am
I don't need any amount of trust to move my vote at this point.

No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end.
Or we'll exile you. That would be the preferred outcome.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 02:22:49 am
Why's that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 02:23:35 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 02:37:27 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 04:40:42 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 06:59:36 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 07:06:30 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 07:23:53 am
I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

xoxo
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 08:37:50 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

i see Jimmmmm's question as simple curiosity tbh. But maybe I'm judging by myself. Let's ask Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 09:16:35 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.

Really my question meant "Do you realise you implied that you want to exile me without providing reasons?" Turns out that was what he meant to imply.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:33:58 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Not more than any town exile is bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:37:33 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:38:49 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 10:41:13 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:44:39 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:45:32 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.

I'm not sure we're any closer to exiling scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:49:04 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:49:49 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.

I'm not sure we're any closer to exiling scum.
So why did you engage in this discussion?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:51:15 am
I didn't, until LL asked me a question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:53:05 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.

Are you suggesting that I should argue my own Towniness absent any arguments for my scumminess?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 10:54:00 am
I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 14, 2021, 10:57:12 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 10:59:35 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:27:30 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Welcome to playing with MiX! And apparently faust is being MiX now too. I can't scumread MiX for it... But faust was doing this last game as scum for scum reasons and now he's doing it again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:29:12 pm
I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 12:34:58 pm
I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.

Don't worry, a good player such as myself has one of the worst win records, so clearly this means you're skilled.

The real way to win is to never be town, isn't that right Dylan? Or be survivor 3 times...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:35:18 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:46:21 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?

As for EFHW... I am also voting for her because of what I perceived as defensiveness. The majority of her posts so far (other than saying hello & asking a question to Math) are literally her defending herself... so I don't see how anyone can see it as anything but being defensive. I get that she was responding to having two votes on her before she'd even made a substantial post, but her defense seems over-exaggerated to me.

So for me EFHW is scummy because she has done hardly any scumhunting, even if I ask.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 14, 2021, 12:53:38 pm
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 14, 2021, 01:01:04 pm
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 03:09:21 pm
I’m frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.

I didn't say you weren't in the club ;)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:10:53 pm
I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?
Probably not. You never know though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:20:12 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Welcome to playing with MiX! And apparently faust is being MiX now too. I can't scumread MiX for it... But faust was doing this last game as scum for scum reasons and now he's doing it again.
What is it that i am doing that I was doing as scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:21:49 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:22:36 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?
Can you point me to posts where Jimmmmm scumhunts?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:27:56 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
This is in my personal QT from that game by the way, I could share that if it helps and if joth thinks it's fine. Otherwise joth can confirm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:30:39 pm
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.

Are you suggesting that I should argue my own Towniness absent any arguments for my scumminess?
Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 14, 2021, 04:15:43 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
This is in my personal QT from that game by the way, I could share that if it helps and if joth thinks it's fine. Otherwise joth can confirm.

I don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:48:04 pm
I forgot this game existed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:52:26 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

Which post was this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:53:44 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.

This seems pretty bold for a D1 faust read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:55:07 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm

Is this just some weird buddying?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:55:59 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:57:27 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed

While I agree with this wagon stuff, ironically, it doesn't mean much after you have said it, because then people will just think that the first few wagons are unlikely to be exiled, which makes them easily controlled by scum. But also, that's why you have to have some surprise hammers now and again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:58:37 pm
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.

Has anyone ever shown that wagon analysis is helpful? I mean I do it too, but do we know if it is meaningful?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 05:59:59 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?


I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:00:54 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:03:09 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isn’t usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.

I think I agree with Joth here. I also would argue that EFHW has been defensive because she has an early wagon on her.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:04:39 pm
I feel like I'm seeing a lot more of EFHW D1 than is usual.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:05:24 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Not more than any town exile is bad.

Scum could likely get away easier on a wagon with no explanation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:08:34 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.

Not sure, but I think it's that the reason would have looked "set-aside", which is maybe why you didn't give it (didn't read that game).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:09:57 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?


I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.

But in that same post (the part I snipped) you gave another list of people that you didn't know about. So did you just make a quick decision on them being townie for now? If so, what has made them townie so far?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 06:46:20 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?

I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.

But in that same post (the part I snipped) you gave another list of people that you didn't know about. So did you just make a quick decision on them being townie for now? If so, what has made them townie so far?

Eh…it’s mostly gut reads. I thought Joth’s “Hi Everybody!” line was nice, not scummy. Most of us just finished the game Joth modded so he was in it, but he didn’t get to play. MiX is being town Mix. When he’s scum he’s more erratic. LL seems like his usual towny self. At the time I found faust towny mostly because he was asking towny questions. In the day since I wrote that, though, he’s become more cagey and less forthcoming. Iguana on the other hand has moved up in towniness. So, I think I’d  replace faust with iguana now.  Jimmm gave me a cookie. I like cookies. Not sure it’s town, but I’m here for the cookie, for sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 14, 2021, 07:02:20 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:20:51 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.

So can you explain what the supposed pro town reason of routinely hiding the reasons for your D1 votes is? Can you point to any recent town game where you've done this?

When I used to play with you, I have no memory that you withheld reasoning like this D1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:24:16 pm
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.

For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:27:45 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

Which post was this?

The post he quoted. It was a sort of a joke because I made a longish post and asked Joth a question in it randomly. My thought was that a careless person wouldn't even see the question directed to them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:41:39 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?
Can you point me to posts where Jimmmmm scumhunts?

Sure.

I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth

Given that this was post #81, to me it was the most scumhunting post that had been made so far in the game. It struck me as someone who looked at what had been posted with seriousness and wanted to get out of RVS and into looking for possible scumtells already.

I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

This shows someone looking for scum and not able to find any.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

Here, Jim changed his mind and was convinced to vote EFHW based on a case by WCD. I guess what made this look like scumhunting to me is that he didn't vote EFHW (who was already a sort of alternative wagon to him) until WCD gave reasons, and implies that the reasons convinced him. As scum, I think maybe he would have already been voting EFHW before WCD made the case. So, it is sheeping, but it looks like sheeping because he's looking for scum.

Could he be scum just fabricating this? Sure. Anyone could be still. But on D1 I don't see the point to punish a player for scumhunting unless there is a good argument that they really look like scum themselves. So I think Jim is a bad vote.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 14, 2021, 09:46:33 pm

Here, Jim changed his mind and was convinced to vote EFHW based on a case by WCD. I guess what made this look like scumhunting to me is that he didn't vote EFHW (who was already a sort of alternative wagon to him) until WCD gave reasons, and implies that the reasons convinced him. As scum, I think maybe he would have already been voting EFHW before WCD made the case. So, it is sheeping, but it looks like sheeping because he's looking for scum.

Could he be scum just fabricating this? Sure. Anyone could be still. But on D1 I don't see the point to punish a player for scumhunting unless there is a good argument that they really look like scum themselves. So I think Jim is a bad vote.
.

On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

I also want to clarify that this:
Quote
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.
was a joke. I accidentally hit post before I could add an emoji :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 09:53:39 pm
On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

Thanks for the reason!

It's tough when you have a reputation for inactivity. I'd like to get away from it, and it's not really worth playing if I'm not going to be actively involved in the game, but any attempt to be more active is inevitably going to be seen as scummy. I'm certainly not going to limit my posting in order to avoid suspicion.

If it helps, I'm stuck at home due to lockdown, so I have more time on my hands than I would otherwise have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 14, 2021, 10:10:24 pm

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.
It’s perception, so I think it’s fair for other people not to see it.

I see it as defensive because it begins with a deflection on the topic (MiX wanted an answer), then a shrug (I don’t play this way but some people do), then a deflection (maybe that’s what Joth vote was).

This is decent textual analysis, but it is a misinterpretation. I think I introduced it the way I did because MiX's question wasn't in the quote and I wanted it to be clear that I was responding to him. Each of those comments was in response to MiX's previous post, acknowledging what he said about joth's vote and also noticing that math gave a similar reason. I then went on to criticize math's response. I kind of tunneled math last game (oh wait, I was scum), so I held back on voting for the moment.

Then I provided evidence for my observation:
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.

Here is the exhorting I mentioned in my last post.

I'm still seriously considering voting math, but I'm learning that he can be kind of awkward and that could explain the confusion I have about is he joking or is he serious.

I really wasn't fussed about the two votes on me. It's pretty much par for the course after winning as scum in the game just finished.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:17:08 pm

I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 12:51:09 am
Having done some re-reading I'm less than convinced about the EFHW wagon and will probably move my vote soon.

Didds, do you think you could be tunneling EFHW?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 01:52:30 am
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.

Has anyone ever shown that wagon analysis is helpful? I mean I do it too, but do we know if it is meaningful?
There is a significant lack of research on mafia game theory unfortunately.

Scum could likely get away easier on a wagon with no explanation.
No they couldn't. It would in fact be harder for them to get away with that. If reasons were provided, then scum can just say "I agreed with the reasons given by gkrieg". If no reasons were provided, then they have to come up with convincing reasons themselves.

So can you explain what the supposed pro town reason of routinely hiding the reasons for your D1 votes is?
Yes, sure. The first reason is it makes it harder for scum to hide. As explained in my answer to gkrieg above, having reasons makes it easy for scum to engage with the case - they just choose to agree or disagree with the reasons. If reasons are not given then they have to actively come up with a fake read without the guide of reading other player's reads. That is harder and thus playing that way makes it easier to catch scum.

Secondly, the person who is being wagoned cannot just argue their townieness by arguing against the reasons. It's easy, especially on D1, to pick apart any reasons given for any wagon. It is harder to argue your own townieness. Thus the latter gives better insight into their alignment.

Thirdly, if I do not give reasons, I can vote someone for pressure and have them not know that is why, which makes the pressure more effective. However if I give reasons for any "proper" vote, then it will be obvious when a vote is just for pressure.

Finally, reasons are often not much more than a confirmation-biased reread of someone you already gut-read as scum. If you type them out you only lean more into that confirmation bias. And you've created a position now that you will feel that you need to defend, which psychologically makes it even harder to remain open and fight the bias.

Can you point to any recent town game where you've done this?
You can probably look at any recent game where I've been town. However I replaced out early from Memento and Dwarves was bastard, so the best reasource is probably M134. I have a bunch of unexplained votes there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:31:08 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 02:42:51 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:46:16 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:46:51 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:55:12 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 03:10:35 am
Having done some re-reading I'm less than convinced about the EFHW wagon and will probably move my vote soon.

Didds, do you think you could be tunneling EFHW?

Oh, yes. That definitely happens… she even alluded to it earlier. And there’s some residual suspicion from the last game about both her and faust.  I’m not feeling rushed to move my vote at the moment since we’re only what? halfway through D1? My weeks are front loaded so I’m underwater at work now (thus why I’m up at 2am) but am out from under starting on Thursday. Plus watching her reactions and the wagon generally is really helpful to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:21:28 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:22:13 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with for the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.
EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:24:22 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
Oh yeah, and now a policy vote! I'm sure that is going to move the game forward.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:26:43 am
I am leading us down?

Yep. You have the most posts and zero helpful content. The only conclusion one can come to trying to analyse your game is "Why is he refusing to contribute?" So we either have to go ahead and give you that free pass, or argue with you about how anti-Town you're being.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:29:25 am
I am leading us down?

Yep. You have the most posts and zero helpful content. The only conclusion one can come to trying to analyse your game is "Why is he refusing to contribute?" So we either have to go ahead and give you that free pass, or argue with you about how anti-Town you're being.
In the very post that you quoted I have argued why what I posted was helpful content. If you disagree (which you do by saying that none of my content was helpful) then you need to argue against that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:31:16 am
And so on down the rabbit-hole.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:34:13 am
Here is a selection of helpfup content. Please explain how the content wasn't helpful in each instance.
Vote: joth
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?
...okay, I'm going to stop here, you get my point I believe.

PPE: You are conflating two things there. It is helpful for me to argue my townieness. You claim it is helpful for you to give reasons for your vote, so you'd have to think it good to do that. The rabbit hole I was complaining about is useless meta talk about playstyles.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:34:40 am
On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

Thanks for the reason!

It's tough when you have a reputation for inactivity. I'd like to get away from it, and it's not really worth playing if I'm not going to be actively involved in the game, but any attempt to be more active is inevitably going to be seen as scummy. I'm certainly not going to limit my posting in order to avoid suspicion.

If it helps, I'm stuck at home due to lockdown, so I have more time on my hands than I would otherwise have.

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:39:45 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.

I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:41:35 am
Vote: joth

Unexplained vote. Unhelpful.


Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!

Sounds jokey to me. Are you suggesting this is an actual reason for a legitimate scumread on MiX?


I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?

Unexplained vote that never happened. If I was to infer a reason it would simply be to join a wagon.


I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.

You get offended at an RVS comment, but make no effort to justify it not being RVS or meaningless.


Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.

Cryptic and unhelpful.


Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Question about wagon theory. The only thing we can infer is that you think mathdude's attitude to wagons is NAI, which isn't helpful.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:44:57 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.

I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 03:45:12 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:49:21 am
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.

And by refusing to talk about your reads, you're limiting discussion about you to this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:52:01 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.
I am focused on winning this game. If you want to have that discussion we can make a separate thread for it once this game is over.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:57:30 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:58:29 am
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.

And by refusing to talk about your reads, you're limiting discussion about you to this.
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though. My votes are there, I tend to vote for my scumreads. Sometimes I even state my reads on players I am not currently voting for. You are free to use this information to infer my alignment. I am not sure how my giving reasons for every vote would help you in that process.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:59:42 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 04:01:21 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:04:33 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:05:17 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?

Can you also answer this question?

Actually, can someone of the scum alignment answer this question too?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:09:38 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:11:31 am
Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:14:33 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.

It's probably the way you referred to his paragraph of useless things, it sounded like something only town can do (the paragraph, that is).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:15:52 am
And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:16:16 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?
I was about to write a snarky response, but it's no use escalating this. I do not deny that there are things that I refuse to talk about. I am sure that there are things that you refuse to talk about, too, otherwise you would tell me your role now. The only difference is where we draw the line. i am willing to discuss some things when I feel it is beneficial to discuss them. Someone I think is scum wanting to know is not grounds for me to change my mind though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 04:17:25 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:19:12 am
The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.
What does is matter what I think?

Also, the fact that scum can be honest and genuine about these things was like, the entire point i tried to make earlier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:20:43 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:22:05 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:22:17 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.

I don't understand how so. I think it's def not scum v scum, but one of them may as well be. I think faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:22:39 am
Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

yeah, this
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:23:06 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
I have little faith in reaching a consensus. Also, the fact that different people have different playstyles is a plus in my book, I wouldn't want to change that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:29:18 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
I have little faith in reaching a consensus. Also, the fact that different people have different playstyles is a plus in my book, I wouldn't want to change that.

yeah, it's good but only when these playstyles don't clash cluttering the thread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:31:15 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:04:49 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 05:06:55 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)

Well, if they're voting scum, they're probably town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:08:05 am
Yeah that doesn't cut it either.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:08:47 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)
Again, I am not willing to engage in discussion about playstyles. How you get your reads is your business. I am putting enough content out there to be read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 05:14:32 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?

This actually looked like a sarcasm, which would make even more posts appear that distract people (which actually happened!)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:15:30 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:23:47 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:27:41 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?

This actually looked like a sarcasm, which would make even more posts appear that distract people (which actually happened!)
I was being sarcastic, but I also genuinely wanted Jimmmmm to explain why he is town, something that he by the way has refused to do so far.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:30:53 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:34:21 am
I was being sarcastic, but I also genuinely wanted Jimmmmm to explain why he is town, something that he by the way has refused to do so far.

If you have a case against me I'm happy to engage with it, but I'm not going to spend time defending myself against a non-case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 07:52:26 am
Ok, I'm going to respond to one question directed at me, then give my 2 cents on the 2 pages of excessive banter while trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!

Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?

Specifically, the quoted post felt artificial. Then looking at the post he quoted, and the 2 or 3 that followed, it felt to me like Jimmmmm was trying to create interaction ... I don't know, it just didn't feel like genuine town posting to me.  (No, don't ask me what town posting feels like... it was just my gut feel.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 08:03:37 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
This is a continuation of discussion from the Oz game. I am really happy to see faust's explanation of why he does naked votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 08:11:47 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 08:12:34 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

and this is actually why I think all the "give me reasons you're town" questions are meaningless unless there's something like "I helped exile two scum already"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 08:14:48 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.

This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.

If faust is town, it helps him get better reads as others reply, respond, react, and interact. If people get defensive, or ignore things, or jump on a wagon, or infer reasons or add reasons from their own confirmation bias, it can tell him things, since he knows what reasons he started things for.

But if faust is scum, it allows him to put "reads" on people without giving reasons, it lets him test where others want to start wagons, let's him look involved (shows up in vote counts) without actually saying much, and generally seem "town" (in his opinion) because he's following his meta.

He's got (and/or is building) a meta that lets him completely fly under the radar when he is scum because it doesn't require faking anything.

The problem with this whole thing is that it seems helpful to him, from his perspective, no matter his alignment. But it does nothing to make the rest of us believe he's town because it's just as easy for him to claim that he's doing the same thing he always does, whether town or scum. So the responses to his blind votes don't mean anything to us since we don't know why he initially posted it.

So overall, faust's strategy is good for him, bad for the rest of us. The biggest problem is that he could be genuinely trying to be helpful town, but just as easily could be scum easily hiding behind his D1 meta.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 08:16:13 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

and this is actually why I think all the "give me reasons you're town" questions are meaningless unless there's something like "I helped exile two scum already"

This.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 08:31:32 am
Finally, reasons are often not much more than a confirmation-biased reread of someone you already gut-read as scum. If you type them out you only lean more into that confirmation bias. And you've created a position now that you will feel that you need to defend, which psychologically makes it even harder to remain open and fight the bias.

This is probably the only part of faust's arguments that I think is helpful. I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.

But saying that, I don't agree that posting a naked vote is any more helpful. Even if I don't post reasons, I still likely have reasons (sometimes just gut feel), and I'm still susceptible to the confirmation bias. Better to just be aware of the bias, and work to look around it (similar to how I almost always find MiX scummy D1, but that doesn't mean I tunnel him D1 every game... I keep a more open mind).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:46:28 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.

This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.

If faust is town, it helps him get better reads as others reply, respond, react, and interact. If people get defensive, or ignore things, or jump on a wagon, or infer reasons or add reasons from their own confirmation bias, it can tell him things, since he knows what reasons he started things for.

But if faust is scum, it allows him to put "reads" on people without giving reasons, it lets him test where others want to start wagons, let's him look involved (shows up in vote counts) without actually saying much, and generally seem "town" (in his opinion) because he's following his meta.

He's got (and/or is building) a meta that lets him completely fly under the radar when he is scum because it doesn't require faking anything.

The problem with this whole thing is that it seems helpful to him, from his perspective, no matter his alignment. But it does nothing to make the rest of us believe he's town because it's just as easy for him to claim that he's doing the same thing he always does, whether town or scum. So the responses to his blind votes don't mean anything to us since we don't know why he initially posted it.

So overall, faust's strategy is good for him, bad for the rest of us. The biggest problem is that he could be genuinely trying to be helpful town, but just as easily could be scum easily hiding behind his D1 meta.

He waa obviously scum last game. There are key differences in town!faust and scum!faust that makes this strategy pro-town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:48:02 am
You should just have a playstyle as town that maximizes scum flips. Who cares if it's easy to fake if you win your town games? That just means you always win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:49:34 am
Prod: e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:56:34 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:59:41 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him. Like he’s really trying in good faith to get past an argument he finds unproductive.

Jimmmmm is trying to have the meta-argument while also gently implying faust is scum wherever possible. The vote was just a little over the top. Thinly veiled OMGUS.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 09:09:17 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:13:46 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI
Oh look you conveniently ignored my other post which contains stuff that is not meta-based!

I also think "you know meta so none of this is worth anything" takes are a bit simplistic. My town meta is to get killed early or get exiled later on; doesn't mean it makes sense for scum!me to replicate that. Scum can focus all their energy on following their town meta and probably do a pretty good job at it; but that is not how scum wins. They need to do something different because they need to push for town exiles, protect their partners etc. Otherwise they just fly under the radar, letting town do their thing, until they are PoE'd and lose.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:21:46 am
trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!
I'm afraid you failed, unfortunately.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:31:40 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him.
...thanks?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 09:40:14 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him.
...thanks?
No, thank you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 09:40:30 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.

:P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 09:43:21 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him. Like he’s really trying in good faith to get past an argument he finds unproductive.

Jimmmmm is trying to have the meta-argument while also gently implying faust is scum wherever possible. The vote was just a little over the top. Thinly veiled OMGUS.

OMGUS strikes me as a lazy argument. I have no reason to care that faust is voting for me; his vote doesn't mean anything until the Day ends or he decides to start playing the game. I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 10:45:30 am
OMGUS is (almost) never a tactical decision. It's a way of expressing frustration. Granted, town can also get frustrated with town (or scum) but that usually happens when someone is being annoying or intransigent and I just don't see faust doing that. He's making good, cogent points in response to your criticism of caseless voting. So your frustration, expressed through an OMGUS vote, reads to me as scummy frustration at not being able to make progress dissolving a day one wagon on you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 10:50:42 am
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 15, 2021, 11:02:00 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

Ugh. You aren’t supposed to know this about yourself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 11:28:44 am

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

I do want to call out a fallacy here, possibly a scummy one, which is that town-driven wagon =/= wagon on scum. If Jimmmmm thinks that the EFHW wagon is a misguided, but town-driven, wagon, then it's not the case that it's beneficial to join it and also not the case that faust has voted for scum. faust has tried to create a dichotomy here but has intentionally excluded an option to make that dichotomy seem to exonerate him. So, some scumpoints for faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 11:30:32 am
Prod: e

Hi.

Need to reread some, will do that tonight. Sorry, got behind a bit here
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 12:05:33 pm

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

I do want to call out a fallacy here, possibly a scummy one, which is that town-driven wagon =/= wagon on scum. If Jimmmmm thinks that the EFHW wagon is a misguided, but town-driven, wagon, then it's not the case that it's beneficial to join it and also not the case that faust has voted for scum. faust has tried to create a dichotomy here but has intentionally excluded an option to make that dichotomy seem to exonerate him. So, some scumpoints for faust.
I guess? Though if anyone feels this way about the EFHW wagon then I think that person should tell us that and explain why they feel that way. If you feel so strongly about a wagon that you are willing to go against a bunch of your townreads then you have some insight that is worth sharing. That hasn't happened, so I think it's safe to assume that noone believes it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:14:55 pm
Wow, my question to Faust was answered in detail it turns out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:35:57 pm
[-snip-]
I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.

I don't think you can say this any more in good faith. faust has divulged quite a bit. He shared his opinion on the EFHW wagon, gave more of a read on MiX, etc. He's playing less one dimensionally than you are giving him credit for in your argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:40:44 pm
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

Given you're voting faust, isn't this argument basically "The fact that you look like your town self means you're scum?" I get that someone can look town and be scum but if faust looks like town faust shouldn't we wait until scum!faust appears? I realize this is rich coming from someone who failed to do that recently but still.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:47:01 pm
Prod: Swowl

I think he's realized that the thing he wants to do while sunbathing at the beach is not forum mafia.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 01:35:39 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 15, 2021, 02:01:17 pm
Prod: Swowl

I think he's realized that the thing he wants to do while sunbathing at the beach is not forum mafia.

Prod sent.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 15, 2021, 02:21:37 pm
Here and Iguana is right.
Sorry all - DisSwan keeps getting mad at me while I’m on my phone.

I will make some time and also I am back home like 24 hours from now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 02:36:49 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Which ones, the meta posts? They did nothing for this game, so I would not call them good.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:18:12 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.

MiX throwing out way too early partner teams. This is how you get yourself exiled, MiX. Don't worry, I still trust you are town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:19:52 pm
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.

Not a valid defense, but I don't like exiling jimmmm just out of personal bias. I should probably reread jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:23:00 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:23:39 pm
trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!
I'm afraid you failed, unfortunately.

Matter of opinion. I think things are moving forward in a more meaningful way today, compared to yesterday. To steal the format given earlier, there's more "[person] is [alignment] because [reasons]" happening than before. However, I'd guess my posts have very little to fo with it. So I digress.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:23:46 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:25:31 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:28:15 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:29:41 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.

Hey, I had bravado about my reads before MiX even starting playing on this site.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:30:48 pm
It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:31:00 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:31:32 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:32:17 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?

Ah, I see. You needed to give me more material to prove that you are scum.

Greatly appreciated
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:32:48 pm
It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right

This. Last game was cool though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:33:43 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 03:34:38 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

I explained in subsequent posts. TL;DR he seemed less authentic than faust and his vote for faust was OMGUS-y.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:36:13 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?

Ah, I see. You needed to give me more material to prove that you are scum.

Greatly appreciated

There's a lot that has happened since my vote. I just haven't moved it yet because I don't see a need to yet. But most of his posts did happen after my vote, IIRC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:43:22 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:55:27 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:56:23 pm
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

The latter.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 04:00:09 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Joth has a D1 pass, remember?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 04:01:26 pm
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

The latter.

I hadn't gotten around to looking at the EFHW wagon either. I read jimmm first and it just stuck out to me and I told myself, "me, there is scum on that wagon"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 06:26:04 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Which ones, the meta posts? They did nothing for this game, so I would not call them good.

Well, I’m glad I wasn’t taking a poll! To me, they demonstrate that math is learning more about how we play and settling more into our culture. He is actively changing and adapting… for example, he used to make gigantic wall posts that people needed up skimming, but he stopped that. This posts about naked votes from town or scum faust show growing insight, so I’m giving him props. I didn’t say they moved us forward, but they did move math forward, for me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 07:06:22 pm
yeah didds is town. thank goodness.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 08:20:16 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:32:57 pm
I would join this wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 10:27:22 pm
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.

Not a valid defense, but I don't like exiling jimmmm just out of personal bias. I should probably reread jimmmmm

I don't understand what you're saying here. What's the invalid defense, who has the personal bias and is it positive or negative?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 10:53:44 pm
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 10:56:20 pm
If angry is too strong a word, then when did your negative feelings peak?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 11:24:24 pm
Yeah I wouldn't say I'm angry, and I did lean into the argument a bit because I think getting into early-game arguments helps me get into the game, particularly when at least one side has/has expressed a scumread on the other.

I really think faust's strategy is not only damaging to Town, but damaging to the game. If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it, and if everyone did it we wouldn't have much of a game left. I think it was #238 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876795#msg876795) when it became clear to me that this was something that faust was really going for. I think it's something of a devious strategy because it potentially makes him effectively unexileable. If we misexile him once then all the better for him as he can then point to that in the future. I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 11:49:31 pm
I guess we can add “advocating for a policy exile” to the Jimmmmm is scum bingo card.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 11:51:29 pm
Only if I flip scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:01:25 am
If angry is too strong a word, then when did your negative feelings peak?
Peak negative feelings was definitely here:
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:03:02 am
If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it
This is a fallacy.

I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Please explain how what I do is worse than lurking.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:05:13 am
I did lean into the argument a bit
This to me really illustrates how disingenuous the post i quoted for my peak negative feelings really was.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:08:50 am
If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it
This is a fallacy.

How? Are you suggesting you're the only one who should do it?


Quote
I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Please explain how what I do is worse than lurking.

Well for one, normally when lurkers are called out for lurking they try to stop. When you're called out for acti-lurking it results in this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:11:52 am
I did lean into the argument a bit
This to me really illustrates how disingenuous the post i quoted for my peak negative feelings really was.

Nope. Never said I did or said anything disingenuous.

Regarding the post you quoted, the fact that not giving you a free pass inevitably leads us down this rabbit hole is one of the major problems with your strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:15:19 am
And then for you to chide others for debating playstyles when it's the only talking point you allow for yourself is part of the deviousness of the strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:16:47 am
I am not engaging with this further.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:40:06 am
[-snip-]
I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.

I don't think you can say this any more in good faith. faust has divulged quite a bit. He shared his opinion on the EFHW wagon, gave more of a read on MiX, etc. He's playing less one dimensionally than you are giving him credit for in your argument.

Looking through faust's posts, I stand by my statement.


I assume regarding the EFHW wagon you're referring to this:

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This is a nothing argument. You don't get credit for voting for a group that may contain scum, certainly not pre-flip and not necessarily post-flip. The extent of faust's shared opinion on the EFHW wagon is "I've voted for EFHW-voters, so either I'm right or EFHW is scum (or at least should be exiled)". This is not plainly true, unhelpful in itself, and moreso given that it's based on unhelpful votes.


Comments on/to MiX:

Don't you think you can buddy me!

I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.

Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.
What does is matter what I think?

Also, the fact that scum can be honest and genuine about these things was like, the entire point i tried to make earlier.

Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

...
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

Nothing here sheds any light to me on either of their alignments or faust's read on MiX. Is there something I've missed?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:59:25 am
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
[...]
Nothing here sheds any light to me on [...] faust's read on MiX.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:06:37 am
Yep you said the words "MiX is scum" early on Day 1. Perhaps I should have said it sheds no light on your scumread on MiX. If you are Town and have some strong reason to believe MiX is scum, I'd love to hear it. Until I do, the statement is meaningless as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:09:16 am
Taking a closer look at EFHW, particularly the defensiveness claim.


Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

This seems reasonable. I don't know what happened last game, but I can understand not wanting to let it cause problems for this game.


so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?

I could see an argument for this being defensive - joth didn't mention the last game but EFHW guesses it as the reason for joth's vote. Could be read as a light-hearted jab.


I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.

This seems reasonable if the WCD/EFHW thing is as common as it sounds.


so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

The fact that she quotes her own post to justify it without prompting rings a small bell.


math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.

I'm having some trouble parsing this post, but Didds pointed it out as the one that felt defensive. MiX pointed out the bolded statements as the ones that can look defensive. I don't see the first bolded statement as defensive, rather as an intro to the post, which makes sense to clarify that she was replying to MiX but quoting math. The context of this was EFHW's question to math about whether his vote was RVS or serious; the response being that it was wagon-based / maybe RVS. EFHW's response seems to be that she wouldn't join the wagon for wagon's sake, but connects it to joth's vote on her by suggesting it might be the reason for that. But only one sentence out of six is about joth's vote; the rest is about math's response to EFHW's question, so I don't see this as defensive at all.



I think the RVS/non-RVS thing is pretty moot. Whatever you call it, votes at the start of Day 1 are different because there has been little or no opportunity to develop reads. Most people in my experience call that RVS. Just because some bristle at the term doesn't make it ("is this a serious vote"?) an invalid question.


So, aside from possibly a couple of minor things, I disagree with the EFHW defensiveness argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:13:07 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.

And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.

MiX, what and when was the change in your attitude towards me between these posts, which are 17 hours apart?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:22:04 am
Ok, I'm going to respond to one question directed at me, then give my 2 cents on the 2 pages of excessive banter while trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!

Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?

Specifically, the quoted post felt artificial. Then looking at the post he quoted, and the 2 or 3 that followed, it felt to me like Jimmmmm was trying to create interaction ... I don't know, it just didn't feel like genuine town posting to me.  (No, don't ask me what town posting feels like... it was just my gut feel.)


I still don't really understand this. The quoted post was sarcastic, and probably trying to be a bit clever, so it was artificial in that sense, but the meaning was genuine - disbelief that a vote based only on that post was a serious "Let's exile joth" vote. Of course it could have been for some other reason, such as putting pressure on him to get a reaction, but to me that still falls within RVS.

What do you mean that I was trying to create interaction? It's not clear to me which the 2 or 3 posts you're talking about are.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:31:44 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.

And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.

MiX, what and when was the change in your attitude towards me between these posts, which are 17 hours apart?

The first one was a joke. I wanted to stay on your wagon despite toenreading you, so I said that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:32:20 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 16, 2021, 05:36:27 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:47:00 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?

Because she brought up the faust/Jimmmmm argument again, for what it seems like no real reason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 06:07:27 am
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 07:10:37 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?

Because she brought up the faust/Jimmmmm argument again, for what it seems like no real reason.

So.... Not a policy exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 09:52:45 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

I want to sort out if either of them is scummy for that argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 09:54:43 am
Ok, I caught up. Sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:10:53 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

I want to sort out if either of them is scummy for that argument.

What were/are your reads on them before/after this question?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:15:31 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:17:31 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:19:56 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:20:34 am

Are you wanting a response from me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:21:15 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

There are more than those 6 playing this game?
/sarcasm

Most recent official vote count (I know, a lot has changed since then)...
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

iguana
e
WCD
LL
Swowl
gk

So, yes, e has been participating.  I believe iguana has also been in-and-out.  Didds seems to be her usual self, D1... happy to be hanging out with people here, talking friendly, etc.  But LL, Swowl, and gk have been almost non-existant (and if they have been around, they haven't posted anything worthwhile that I have noticed).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:23:29 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).

Thanks.

We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:23:38 am

Are you wanting a response from me?

You can respond if you want.  But I was more interested in other people's opinions of your meta.  As has already been mentioned this thread (regarding faust or joth, I forget which)... when someone knows their own meta well enough to comment on it, it does seem to make it NAI.  But if you can tell me which of those options (or another option) it is, that can help, I guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:26:18 am
Vote: iguana

Request Vote Count. Not trying to imply you didn't post frequently enough, just that the thread moved fast.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:27:55 am
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:35:32 am
You can respond if you want.  But I was more interested in other people's opinions of your meta.  As has already been mentioned this thread (regarding faust or joth, I forget which)... when someone knows their own meta well enough to comment on it, it does seem to make it NAI.  But if you can tell me which of those options (or another option) it is, that can help, I guess.

Yeah I agree with that sentiment, but I'll weigh in.

I don't think level of effort is particularly alignment-indicative for me. I might be slightly less likely to be lurky as scum overall, because I feel a responsibility to my teammate/s. But I've definitely had games both ways in which I've put in a lot of effort. The problem is that when I fall behind I have a really hard time catching up.

I think as scum under pressure my goal is generally to ignore the pressure and try to emulate my Town self by doing productive-looking re-reads etc. I don't recall ever OMGUSing or going hard after someone because they were going hard after me as scum.

If I was scum in this game, I would feel the same about faust's strategy but I highly doubt I would have argued with him anywhere near as much as I have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 10:42:56 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 10:53:00 am
vote: mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:59:58 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 11:01:09 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

Should I even bother asking for reasons?

vote: mathdude

Thanks for your participation!  It's so very helpful.

I just looked back at your posts this game, and it does appear you have about 16 of them.  Almost none of them are memorable.  It's almost like you're putting posts out there, but making sure you're not standing out and drawing any attention to yourself.  (The one I remembered was where you told faust "you aren't supposed to know that about yourself").  Trying to slide just under the radar for some reason?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 11:03:53 am
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 16, 2021, 11:14:18 am
Lime Green watched some interesting things happen on the cams. Orange and Brown walked into security together. Purple walked past the doors to administration, and a moment later Black emerged from admin and followed Purple back into the cafeteria. At that moment someone sneakily walked under the camera in the hallway just beyond the security room. Lime Green turned around to see who it was...

Vote Count 1.4

iguanaiguana (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Jimmmmm (2): EFHW, jotheonah
faust (2): LaLight, Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): faust

Not Voting (2): Swowl, mathdude

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:39:35 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
I think the problem with answering this is that Jimmmmm has not been playing a lot recently, and when he did oftentimes he just ended up lurking and eventually getting exiled/replaced for that.

I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:40:58 am
Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!
It's because you are scum!



Was it everything that you hoped for?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 11:46:25 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:48:20 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

Should I even bother asking for reasons?
I don't know if you should. I definitely respond more positively to a third party asking for reasons for my vote than the person I'm voting for.

Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town. The overinflated townread on me. The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology). Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:49:27 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?
At this point, it is a bit unclear which wagons you are referring to with this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 11:50:42 am
I was thinking Jimmmmm and EFHW, but I see the EFHW wagon has sputtered out.

Anyway, let's get rid of Jimmmmm, he's being very scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:57:11 am
You've convinced me. I've also convinced myself.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:58:28 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
I think the problem with answering this is that Jimmmmm has not been playing a lot recently, and when he did oftentimes he just ended up lurking and eventually getting exiled/replaced for that.

I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 12:05:35 pm
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

Nice vocabulary word there
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:00:42 pm
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.

Truth be told, this is a new look from Jimmm for most of us. He's in Australia so he tends to be active when most of us are sleeping so his interactions are often out of time from the rest of us. I've played with him a handful of times and he tends to be rather lurky and then gets exiled, but has a reputation for being smart and solving games that predates my actual experience with him.

He doesn't usually lock horns with faust (although lots of other people do) but I am completely sympathetic to being bored and locked up so engaging more as a result. 

I find his level of engagement pretty towny, but on closer inspection it is probably NAI.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:05:50 pm
Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:21:49 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:29:14 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 01:40:46 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 01:47:28 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:48:37 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is e scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:48:59 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:50:38 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?

How to scum:

- Buddy faust
- Vote partner
- Wait for partner to get in an argument with faust
- Say they're both town and unvote
- Open up the option to bus
- ???
- Let Jimmmmm be exiled D1
- Infinite towncred

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e

Neither. Not sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 16, 2021, 01:55:45 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:00:32 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 02:17:28 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:32:06 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?
Didds is the third, clearly.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:37:28 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg
Is this the time you choose to abandon the Jimmmmm wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:38:27 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW

Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:39:50 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW

Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post

No, not at all. Did you mean to quote the previous post?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:40:56 pm
Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post

In what way did I, or anyone else for that matter, imply that the options were between faust and Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:41:50 pm
No, I quoted the post I intended to. What was the reason for your vote, if I am wrong that it was my leaving the Jimmmmm wagon? I might have made an erroneous assumption.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:42:00 pm
MiX has decided he want to look at
LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e
because they weren't talked about much, then proceeded to vote for the most talked about within that group, and now is back to voting for the player who got the most votes this game and is not part of that group mentioned above - and that's after she did what he wanted and went from voting his supposed townread Jimmmmm to voting gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:43:46 pm
I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:45:55 pm
No, I quoted the post I intended to. What was the reason for your vote, if I am wrong that it was my leaving the Jimmmmm wagon? I might have made an erroneous assumption.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

It was for this post.

MiX has decided he want to look at
LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e
because they weren't talked about much, then proceeded to vote for the most talked about within that group, and now is back to voting for the player who got the most votes this game and is not part of that group mentioned above - and that's after she did what he wanted and went from voting his supposed townread Jimmmmm to voting gkrieg.

iguana was someone I gave a D1 pass to because I assumed they would clear themselves if town. Because they were busy, they have not done that, so I voted them. Then I realized that there's little reason to push them because they're busy (which is not something I had actually remembered when I voted them) and so I went back to my initial townread on them. I then reread gkrieg and found them to be townie. LL and e are not people I want to push today, and Swowl is not here at all. And I was thinking of voting EFHW from earlier today anyway.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:49:32 pm
Swowl is not here at all.
I thought if last game taught you anything, it would be to not give people who aren't around a free pass.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Why do you want to know?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:50:39 pm
Swowl is not here at all.
I thought if last game taught you anything, it would be to not give people who aren't around a free pass.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Why do you want to know?

Last game taught me that if you let lurkers lurk D1, you catch them D2.

Because, faust. Because. I don't think I can change my read on you anyway, but others might.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:51:10 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:52:44 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:53:51 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:56:03 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:57:39 pm
Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 02:57:55 pm
I am not following your argument here, MiX. Can you explain what you mean? I am a fab of more active Jimmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:58:42 pm
Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You're clearly not trying to argue in good faith.

So are you voting Jimmmmm or me?

I am not following your argument here, MiX. Can you explain what you mean? I am a fab of more active Jimmmm.

Which one, I lost track.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 02:59:53 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:01:45 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 03:02:46 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:03:17 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?

joth as well, it seems like.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 03:04:49 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?

joth as well, it seems like.
joth has definitely not been voting for (or, to my knowledge, scumreading) Jimmmmm since the start of the game. Indeed, he was part of the EFHW wagon before.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:04:59 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

I mean I did reread the game and post about it but no one seemed to respond much to the posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 03:07:08 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:08:07 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

To be fair, those contributions were from yesterday, so it's not like I haven't been doing anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:08:59 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?

How to scum:

- Buddy faust
- Vote partner
- Wait for partner to get in an argument with faust
- Say they're both town and unvote
- Open up the option to bus
- ???
- Let Jimmmmm be exiled D1
- Infinite towncred

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e

Neither. Not sure.

You can brutally bus a partner D1 and ride the towncred to a victory. Been done with me before.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 03:09:17 pm
Wow, a lot going on today.  I like it.  It actually gives us something to look back at D2!  (Granted, I was pretty poor at putting the pieces together last game, so there's nowhere to go but up).

I do like that Jimmmmm's trying to be active, but...
I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This seems pretty convincing.  This is almost exactly what seemed to happen here!

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:11:24 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

I mean I did reread the game and post about it but no one seemed to respond much to the posts.

Oh yeah lol I could only notice once I saw the timestamps.

Wow, a lot going on today.  I like it.  It actually gives us something to look back at D2!  (Granted, I was pretty poor at putting the pieces together last game, so there's nowhere to go but up).

I do like that Jimmmmm's trying to be active, but...
I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This seems pretty convincing.  This is almost exactly what seemed to happen here!

Vote: Jimmmmm

This is part of why I'm okay with a Jimmmmm exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:14:46 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:18:39 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

Also, what has made my posts so far townie?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:22:36 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

This post seems genuine. You're just throwing it out there: EFHW not scum. I like it a lot.

I feel like I'm seeing a lot more of EFHW D1 than is usual.

With your defense of EFHW, there is no reason to post this if you're partners. So, why are you defending EFHW if you're scum? The answer is: you're not, because you're not scum.

vote: mathdude

There is no reason for scum!you to go after math in particular, and I think math gets town's vote more than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 03:50:25 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.

This is absolutely terrible in my opinion. "Oh, feels like everyone thinks they are scum, let's exile and find out"

Feels like the same reason MiX exiled me D1 in wizard of Oz. And then exiled Galzria D2. It felt as though that line of thought is exactly what put town in such a hole they couldn't dig out D3

Let's exile the stuck in the mud people, not their target.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 04:03:24 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

Ah, yes. I see the lock tight case now.
-policy exile talk is just bad play, but both town and scum engage in bad play
-omgus is what it is, again, not scum or town tell to me
-and partner calling!

What a great case.

I personally think the first two really point more toward an engaged town!jimmm that got himself in trouble through being active. (MiX should understand getting himself in trouble through activity)

So.... Next case? That was pretty weak on jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 16, 2021, 04:34:43 pm
You can brutally bus a partner D1 and ride the towncred to a victory. Been done with me before.

I did that a couple of times. Also vote: MiX

I would love to see a Mix or faust exile. not Jimmmmm, no.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 04:35:36 pm
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 04:53:02 pm
-policy exile talk is just bad play, but both town and scum engage in bad play
-omgus is what it is, again, not scum or town tell to me

Wrong and wrong.

What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Policy exile talk is the perfect example of this -- you're literally saying 'we should exile this person' without saying 'this person is scum'. So there's no backlash if you're wrong. You can just say 'It's a shame they were town, but we're better off without them.' So that's scummy.

OMGUS is a little different, because it's not generally something scum does intentionally and tactically, but it is something scum does more often than town because it's an emotional reaction associated with emotions scum are more likely to feel. It's basically the same argument as "defensiveness as scum tell".

Everyone will get defensive when they think they're going to be exiled. But for scum, being exiled is a much worse hit for their team. They also feel more of an affinity for their team because they know who they are and have actually worked with them as a team. So when you think you might be the day 1 exile and you're scum, there's just more pressure all around. Getting killed hurts your team more, and you're more worried about letting down your team. So you're more likely to respond with more frustration to less pressure. This is, in my mind, the single strongest scum tel, although it does diminish with player experience to some extent.

An OMGUS vote, just to close the loop, is not just any vote for someone who's voting for you. It's a reactive, frustration-driven vote for someone who is voting for you. In this case, Jimmmmm sort of disguised it as a real vote, which is pretty common, but it read to me as an OMGUS vote based on the context and the timing.

TL;DR both these things are scum tells, not just bad play, don't @ me, let's exile Jim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 04:55:25 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.

This is absolutely terrible in my opinion. "Oh, feels like everyone thinks they are scum, let's exile and find out"

Feels like the same reason MiX exiled me D1 in wizard of Oz. And then exiled Galzria D2. It felt as though that line of thought is exactly what put town in such a hole they couldn't dig out D3

Let's exile the stuck in the mud people, not their target.

Correct. This was not why town lost.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2021, 05:10:15 pm
Ok here. More accurately I’m at the airport but I have the last day and a half loaded up on my phone so I will read on the flight and then jump in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 05:15:35 pm
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 06:33:57 pm
I think this is right…

Vote count 1.WCD

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1):  LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 08:24:47 pm
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20724.0) is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 08:56:12 pm
Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

Ah yes, this game I really tried to put in more effort than normal, as indicated here:

Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.

If you look at my whole game, I have several flurries of activity in the form of wallpost re-reads wherein I try to follow this plan. After the point you mentioned, I made one long post responding point-by-point to joth, and two smaller posts responding to hypercube, and then continued what I'd been previously doing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 16, 2021, 09:27:14 pm
As Lime Green looked back at the door, the lights faded out. Just before their vision completely vanished, they saw the silhouette of somebody slowly approaching...

Vote Count 1.5

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:41:21 pm
In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813512#msg813512) came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:45:49 pm
Also, and I can't stress this enough, I have felt zero pressure this game from faust or MiX's votes. The most pressure I've felt is from EFHW, since she made a reasonable point that I could very much see people agreeing with and exiling me for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:48:16 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

Are you only going by faust's examples? Do you agree with them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:03:50 pm
I'm looking through some previous games, and the relevance of this made me laugh:

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

That's more like it. :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:07:00 pm
The game that came to mind as feeling the most like this one for me is Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.0). Admittedly that was a very long time ago, and I played a good game that game (would have been MVP if Town had won); I'm not suggesting I'm playing a good game this game.

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.

The game included arguments such as this (note that Robz was also Town):

Jimm, I really think is scum.

First off, this is a level of activity I've never seen from Jimm, or least not in recent memory. Jimm is usually town, he usually is pleasant, psuedo-lurking. He's very active here, and this questioning strategy, I've never seen from him. I've been on him since the beginning because of our exchange over me being considered an IC.

Thoughts...

Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
...

It's abnormal because he's scum. Go with the simple explanation!

It's not just that town Jimm is a lurker, it's that his content is mild and unmemorable and inoffensive.

Here, you have been in the driver's seat, and you are raising questions like I've never seen from you before. Yo are different, AND you had the scummy reaction to the prospective Morgrim lynch.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:10:17 pm
In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813512#msg813512) came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.

Whoops, just realised I put the same quote in twice. The "starting Day 2" post should be:

Sorry, behind again. I was mid-way through catching up when the site went down. At this stage the case on raerae seems a bit of a stretch to me but I'll try to look into it more tomorrow night.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:19:26 pm
because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

Nothing about my game has been careful. I am definitely capable of playing the careful scum game. Picking a fight with faust of all people is not the way to do that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 01:01:35 am
I am home and I am caught up. I spent the flight reading, and I have thoughts, but I have been traveling all day. Many apologies, but I need 8 hours and I will get thoughts out first thing in the morning.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 01:22:34 am
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20724.0) is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
You are free to offer up a better example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 01:27:37 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 01:28:19 am
You are free to offer up a better example.

I have; regardless a better example is not necessary to justify that something is a bad example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 01:28:54 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

You're free to offer up a better example  :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 02:58:00 am
What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 03:01:26 am

I started thinking, "Maybe I should try this sort of thing in my next scum game, so I can point to this game as a defense," but then was like, "Nope."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 03:42:29 am
Vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 03:44:03 am
Examining this case.

Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town. The overinflated townread on me. The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology). Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum.


The Townread posts I found:

Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm

I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?


I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.

But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.


He waa obviously scum last game. There are key differences in town!faust and scum!faust that makes this strategy pro-town.

I can't pretend to understand MiX's initial Townread on faust or how serious it was. After that it was the Town v Town conclusion, which is not an unreasonable takeaway from an argument. I'm not seeing the overinflation, but perhaps one of them can help me read between the lines.


I guess the "exile all lurkers" thing is referring to this?

Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).

Thanks.

We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

This seems to be wanting to exile someone other than those who have already been suspected. While there's a correlation between activity and being suspected, I'm not sure this is the same as "exile all lurkers".

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 04:48:33 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 04:57:17 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 04:59:18 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 05:09:37 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 05:12:16 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

I know, it's just I know for a fact that I am checking this game much more often than my last n games (excluding legacy). And also every time I am checking, I post something.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 05:17:52 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

I think a major similarity between the two games is level of confidence. As Town I'm rarely confident of my reads. As scum I'm not confident of my convincingness and know not to be confident in my reads. In the other game I knew I was right and so was not going to back down. Here I'm not confident that you're scum, but I'm confident that your strategy is harmful and should be resisted. In the scum games you mentioned, I addressed the specific points against me and then continued what I was otherwise doing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:19:37 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?
I give reasons and you basically say "oh doesn't matter, it all confirmation bias". Like, if that's the level of engagement I can expect then I might as well not give my reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:23:42 am
What about the rest of what I said?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:32:41 am
Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:38:09 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:41:15 am
Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?
I'm no longer voting you, if you noticed. I'm cured!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:41:35 am
You don't think I'm scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:42:38 am
You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:56:43 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 07:27:10 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 07:34:14 am
What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.

Don't know about joth, but I never thought you were trying to exile faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 07:36:05 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).
They aren't lurking, either. They have been not available.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 08:04:21 am
They're just flying under the radar.

I admit that. I find it hard to engage in discussions D1 and meta-discussions as a whole.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 08:59:00 am
Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. But… it’s the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jim’s seat.

And yeah, I am being a bit stubborn. But with good reason. I feel like I always see this day 1 strat of poking around until we find a consensus exile, usually a last-minute one. And of course that’s always town because that strategy gives scum a lot of power. So I’ve been really trying to stick to my guns here.

But also, I’ve spotted a few things now in Faust’s play that just seem sloppy as town (which is out of character) or subtly manipulative as scum (which is in character). Things like:

- the aforementioned false dichotomy on EFHW
- selecting Jim games for comp but not mentioning relative things like posting restrictions and bastard games

Idk, dollars to donuts I think one of {Jim, faust} is probably scum. But that’s always a dangerous road too.

I think I’m way too I’m my head and I need to re-read or something.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 09:14:03 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.
Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:24:57 am
I guess the problem is the two sentences you say are substance are the two vague ones that I don't know what to do with, so I'd rather deal with the examples, which I'm not convinced by. I think I have some understanding of where you're coming from now though.

Regarding my read on MiX, I'm trying not to be influenced by his Townread on me but boy is that hard sometimes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:31:04 am
Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?

I have no idea what else I can do this game that helps you townread me. I haven't even been performative.

What do you think of my gkrieg reread? What do you think of my joth scumread? What do you think of my read on e being partnered with joth? What do you think of my EFHW scumread? What do you think of my Jimmmmm townread (although you probably already talked about this)?

Do you not think we should talk about people that have been completely ignored today? Do you think there's scum in faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/math/joth with 100% certainty?

And how can you seriously look at this D1 and the previous game's D1 and not say you've been much more townie here than before?

Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 09:32:02 am
Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
You're scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:32:45 am
I'm probably against exiling MiX for now. He's one of those people who I really don't know how to get a read on, to the point where it doesn't really feel worth trying.

Things seem to be improving at the moment (not just because I'm looking less likely to be exiled than I was). I'll spend some time tomorrow having a good look at alternatives.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:33:19 am
Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
You're scum.

No.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:34:24 am
I mean honestly this should be the cherry on top of the town!faust cake.

If I die today because, I don't know, reasons, just sheep me on faust. I don't even care.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:35:44 am
Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. But… it’s the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jim’s seat.

I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. Being understood and disbelieved/disagreed with in this game beats the heck out of feeling like we're typing past each other.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:38:03 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

This made me laugh!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:41:38 am
Let's just look at the wagons:

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

The people under the radar have either been on VLA or are actually townie (or both, see: Didds) so we can let them slide for today. faust is town so let's not do that, besides it's never correct to exile them D1. And I kinda agree with e that joth should get a D1 pass, but it's mostly because I can't see scum!joth flipping today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:43:50 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean this if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:44:11 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean this if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?

Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:44:33 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean that if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:44:45 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

MiX, how are you feeling about Joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:46:00 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

MiX, how are you feeling about Joth?

Null IIRC, but honestly I forgot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:46:43 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:47:30 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

I kind of did, at least regarding the defensiveness case. I'm make sure to look at her tomorrow. (As always, annoying that it's bedtime just as activity is picking up.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:49:48 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:50:13 am
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. Hmmm…. I haven’t carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

I’m not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 09:54:18 am
vote:  EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:56:48 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

I think if the criteria is not moving the game forward (what faust said math was doing), she meets it. If the criteria is not scumhunting, I think she meets that, too. She has asked very few questions and some of them kept us spinning, like the way is faust mad at Jim’s no vice versa questions. Iguana indicated in regard to the defensiveness line, that she ha been playing defense meaning that she is only responding to people and not advancing things on her own. So, while there is nothing scummy, I don’t see anything towny.

BUT, as she point out, I have a hard time letting her start with a blank slate, largely because when she is scum, I am town or 3p, alive at the end, and then she wins. So, I’ve got a chip on my shoulder.

I don’t want to be pubby! Convinced of my own rightness even when it’s wrong and not helpful as a result. So, if someone really thinks she’s town, tell me why.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:59:10 am
A million typos. Sorry! On my phone at the doctors office.

faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 10:00:54 am
vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 10:12:32 am
vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 10:25:00 am
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 11:16:23 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 11:18:38 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 11:19:27 am
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.

Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 12:44:27 pm

I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE

I'm gonna back us up a million years and point this post out. I thought it was townie. I basically was trying to articulate a town read on Jim and he rejected my townread as a misreading of his posts. If you are scum, I think you take the free town points when you are under pressure.

At the time, I was going to share this as a reason to think that Jim was town. Then, e pointed out if Jim is the towniest, we should look on wagon for scum and went for Mathdude. That's why I ended up there. Then Jim did a million things, and some of them were scummy as hell TBH and recently he's been hella towny again and I'm starting to lose track.

But the fact remains that this was a townie post and it was produced not before any pressure was on him but at least before tons and tons of people were starting to say he was the best exile and so I think it has more weight to it than posts he was making specifically knowing that he was fighting for his life.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 12:52:15 pm
Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

I didn't know either thing before I asked. I'm sorry there were more argument posts, but there weren't THAT many, and I know I gained some insight from it. What do you see as the problem?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 12:59:07 pm
As for Math himself, that is a tough one to read.

Last game Math was town, and I didn't share this but I read almost everything Math said as scum. I also noticed in the speccy at the end, where MiX and Galz had solved most of the game, they continually thought Math was the last scum with EFHW/faust instead of Dylan up onto the innocent result on him. And I remember also that outside of Dwarves mafia and Oz mafia he has been exiled D1 a lot, correctly and incorrectly, or something like that.

But there was one post last game that really made me think Math was town and so I just ignored the other scummy stuff. I'm gonna quote the relevant part:

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people.

So here it is not just what he said but the way he said it that is just so townie a new player couldn't make that stuff up. "I'm starting to become aware." He's right there in the thread... realizing that he OMGUS voted me for no good reason and starting to become aware of his biases. Well... scum isn't starting to become aware of anything... they already know most things. So based on that one sentence I had a townread on Math.

This game... there is not that one sentence. There's actually a similar sentence.

-snip
 I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.
-snip

But this time, Math is talking about it as a hypothetical. Last game he was "starting to become aware" of his biases in the present tense. This game he's talking about it as a hypothetical... something he's seen many times but its not happening now.

Okay... so I'm realizing now as I type this all out that I've become incredibly fixated on a single sentence from a previous game that I used as my be-all-end-all to read a player who to be honest I sometimes find confounding and even aggravating.

But... as a whole... I think the argument still stands that Math is scummy because there is a lack of any kind of town-slip type post like he had in Oz. 

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:00:42 pm
Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

I didn't know either thing before I asked. I'm sorry there were more argument posts, but there weren't THAT many, and I know I gained some insight from it. What do you see as the problem?

Lol, every night when I go to bed while being extremely busy IRL, I wake up to find 3-4 more pages of mafia I have to read to be caught up, and 80% of it is faust vs. Jim. There are THAT many IMO
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 01:08:45 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and I’d like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But it’s MiX, so it’s hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:29:33 pm
So EFHW. EFHW started out scummy and then there were some posts that made me question it. This one is important I think.

I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm

"I think I see careful maneuvering." To me, this about face on Jim of going from "Let's not restrict ourselves to faust and Jim" and then back to Jim again but for what look like very authentic reasons is a townie looking post. It was also one of the better arguments that Jim could be scum. So when I was reading along it was here that I was thinking, maybe Jim is actually doing this big scum show.

That being said, now I am thinking Jim is town again... so I am back to EFHW is tunneling and pushing an exile I don't feel good about. Last game I thought I had her as scum... and then she convinced me with a pretty nice case on pubby (who I thought was scum but he was town). So I know she can make a strong argument for a townie being scum as scum.

I also agree with MiX that her posts kind of egging on faust and Jim could be a scum thing. She has the town defense of really wanting to know, which she just now articulated, but as scum I think fanning those flames could be a legitimate tactic in order to distract. I also thought her most recent post saying that she didn't extend the discussion that much was kind of disingenous. Besides... the result has nothing to do really with the attempt.

So... bleh... I'm kind of all over the place with EFHW right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:34:40 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. Hmmm…. I haven’t carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

I’m not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:36:58 pm
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 01:37:48 pm
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)

None.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:41:28 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This is the hedgy post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:42:28 pm
Sorry, got PPEd there….

MiX…. What’s your sense on EFHW? I really don’t want to be stubborn, but I don’t think jimmm or faust are scum. And I’m just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)

None.

The fact that you have no thoughts about someone is something I just can't wrap my head around.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:48:07 pm
So WCD I think has got to be town for now for my sanity's sake. MiX said that I remind Mix of himself or faust but I don't really see that. Actually the person here who reminds me of myself is WCD (except she's nicer; I'm a jerk). I noticed that last game... both of us were often reading the game the same way. So that has continued this game with us starting the EFHW wagon at first as a sort of RVS but then she was saying that EFHW was defensive right as I was reading EFHW's response to the the wagon and finding it scummy & defensive.

Also, there are a smattering of posts throughout from Didds that I agree with. Here's one:

Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

So... I don't actually agree on Math. But I have similar feelings about Jim, and am starting to feel the same way about Swowl because despite his continual assurances that he's going to show up, he still hasn't. And at some point that kind of activity goes from null to scummy when you haven't actually posted a VLA.

I realize that it's dangerous to assume that someone who has the same thought process as you is therefore town... but it worked out last game, so for now I am townreading WCD and just leaving that as very much not set in stone.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 01:49:56 pm
yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:00:26 pm
Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 02:05:15 pm
I don’t think you’re a jerk, iguana!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:09:05 pm
yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people.

Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum.

The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:09:35 pm
I don’t think you’re a jerk, iguana!

You should read 2018 me!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 02:28:01 pm
Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips.

EOL = EAL = Exile all Lurkers (used to be LAL), wow, that is a bad time for a typo.

Ya, I'm going back and forth on EFHW. I thought she was getting a lot of flak for being defensive in her posts, which is something you tend to do when you are being voted for and accused (and commonly gets me misexiled). But then I actually think her question to faust and jimmmmm is scummy. Definitely feeling math over EFHW, but I think they are both pretty good exiles, and I would likely hammer EFHW if it came to it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:34:32 pm
MiX is also here... I really don't want to read MiX.

So reading MiX sucks because I've never had to do it before. Last game I just knew he was town and I was like "haha he is town but he is a wrongo" when actually... well... enough about that.

Much has been made about MiX's super-early-townread of faust. But... isn't that what MiX is notorious for? I don't even play with him and I know that.

Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Pulling this up because it seems like an inconsistency. I just read MiX saying that he has literally no thoughts on Math. But earlier he had thoughts on Math enough to make a pretty decent sized post. I realize this was from WAY EARLIER in the game. But... does MiX just forget his own opinion on Math? Maybe if it was a fabricated opinion to start with that would be more likely.

Another inconsitency related to the same "no opinion on mathdude" post:

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Earlier in the day... Mix wanted more wagons. When a wagon pops up on Math... he has no opinion? Why wouldn't someone who wants to have more wagons engage with a wagon when a new one shows up?

He also blankly scumreads e... who I think is town here and is also an easy misexile (and has been for years).

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.


So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

Wait.. so this is actually a serious inconsistency. He claims to have JUST REREAD all of EFHW/Jim/Math/Himself? but has no opinions on Math. What? MiX, I demand you give opinions on Math.

vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...

What the hell?

Ok, and then the final post saying no opinion on Math that I've already heavily scrutinized.

So I came into this reread positive that I would land flatly null of MiX but I'm actually slightly scumreading him. I can't say it's a strong read though because he's all over the place. And some of it is based on a scum!math partner narrative which I'll admit is terrible to do D1. So... when you remove the confirmation bias effect... slight scum on MiX with a lot of confusion and also please answer my questions.









Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:36:37 pm
Sorry about all that blank space at hte bottom of my post  :o I must have been doing some sloppy quoting
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 02:49:53 pm
Let's just look at the wagons:

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

The people under the radar have either been on VLA or are actually townie (or both, see: Didds) so we can let them slide for today. faust is town so let's not do that, besides it's never correct to exile them D1. And I kinda agree with e that joth should get a D1 pass, but it's mostly because I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

To those 4 "viable wagons", I'd probably add faust and/or joth, just based on opinions that have been shared in thread by multiple people. But you do address them too and consciously didn't add them, so fair enough, from your perspective.

Obviously, I'd rather not be voted out myself, as I know that isn't helpful. I feel like MiX is likely given, based on his posting, scumhunting, etc. But I realize that might be biased by his IC status last game, and even the fact that he was town-reading me here, (though I think he said his current read is null).

Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:51:05 pm
Okay, who is left to take a look at?

Lalight, Swowl, Joust'emmmmmm, 2.7

2.7: There's not much there, but I think what's there is towny.

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

IDK why, but to me that little bit of flair of Jim "screamed" town is something town says, not scum. Maybe it's just something e says though.

And as I've said... I like the Math case.

Lalight: I see nothing strongly alignment indicative in their posts themselves, and they are focused on faust and MiX... two of the players I have less figured out. I am just null on Lalight.

Joust'emmmmmmm:

What can I say? They definitely jousted. So they lived up true to their name. If I had to pick a scum from one of them... I'd pick faust because I'm sick of faust beating me literally every time he's scum. But actually I am null-ish on faust and town-ish on Jimmmmmmm and really don't want to exile either one today. And I kind of don't want to reread all of their ISOs because they're huge and it's about to be my weekend.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:53:57 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 02:59:32 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. Hmmm…. I haven’t carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

I’m not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

I post what I can to try to stay engaged. Many of you confidently say if you think someone is town or scum, based on tells. I have no such reads. Maybe I'm still too new to know. But you could also ask my wife... I'm really bad at reading people IRL too.

I do try to poke people and ask questions that could get them in hot water if they're scum. But yes, I do find myself engaging more in theoretical and meta discussions, rather than direct scum reads and town reads. And like Didds says here, I definitely think this is still more helpful overall than just lurking and not saying much.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 03:02:15 pm
Re reads (super summary) then just jumping in...

Jimmmm:
Town... unless he is just playing the skum game of his life. The initial wagon on him was weak, no issue there, early day 1 fine. However, the people that started it on said weak reasons are literally the easiest two players on the planet to sheep (mix and faust). After that we pick up Mathdude, EFHW, and Joth. Those 3 are literally my top 3 skum reads after my re read. So all that added up, beats out the one skum vibe I get from Jimmm, which is this....

Post 174 - Jimm says "No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end."

... but then posts from there up to #195 with faust all kind of scream the opposite (that being, yes I am nervous, stop voting me without giving a reason).
... but that is it. Outside of that everything else rings town. Or they are just super using ATE in the 1v1s they are having, but again I don't recall Jimmm being similar to let's say someone like Ash at all... so town. pretty sold on that. 



EFHW:
Skum - It is not so much that a ton of things they have done is skummy... outside of this:
#349 - "@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?
@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm."

Mainly I think their tunneling of Jimmm to be skummy. They got on at a advantageous time and then keep pushing him. Problem there is that the only argument she is making is "he could play this way as skum". There is not really any more of a being made that doesn't fixate on the idea of "yes he is playing towny, but that is because he is skum". See posts 452 and 517... which is pretty much their entire listed case for going back to Jimmmm after hopping around to GK and MiX for a moment.


Mathdude:
Null/Skum
- Opens with RVS on MiX. Then in post #80 tries to rally troops to mix suggesting "he is a good wagon", which would suggest he has reasons. But then in #90 the reason is evidently just "because it was a wagon at the time". Which idk, is fine technically, but the whole thing about skum not caring about who is lynched thing.
- #172 provides imo a decent reason to why they like to just get wagons going on Day 1. Negates some of the skum vibes from the previous posts.
- #165 policy votes Jimmm at a time that creates a wagon of 3. Kind of some skum vibes on that one. Stuck bc Math is normally pretty meticulous and that feels lazy. But also, IDK if they would be lazy as skum. So just chalk it up as weird/skummy.
- #173 decent skum hunting. towny.
- #204 partner pairing reasons. skummy.
- Everything from that point on feels pretty much like good effort Math. With the potential exception of #440 which could be an opportunistic sheep of faust back to Jimmm as it contradicts the reason he unvoted Jimmm in the first place (i.e wall posts and such).
So yeah all in all... middle leaning skummy.


WCD
Town.
- RVS vote on EFHW. Doesn't move. Provides reasons that I obviously agree with. Not gonna waste space, everything they have done thus far rings town!didds.


K I got like 2 more I need to get out, but I need to do some work now, so they will be later today.

Vote: EFHW

ppe several
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 03:05:10 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

no one is a jerk. It's on me. I apologized, but I will again. Me not being around was not helpful.
Honestly, I should of subbed as it probably would of been a better decision for town to have someone here posting...  but I just knew I would be back home and realllllyyyy wanted to be in a game. Sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:05:21 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:11:24 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. Hmmm…. I haven’t carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

I’m not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.

Don't take me out of context. I didn't say let's go exile a lurker who we haven't talked much about. I said we still had over 48 hours to look at some people we hadn't yet. We had time to ask them questions, solicit their responses and their opinions since most of them hadn't given much opinion yet at that point, IIRC.

I was saying lurkers don't get a free pass. But I definitely wasn't saying exile the lurkers. I was saying let's engage them. We had a few decent wagons already. But we were missing many opinions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 03:15:01 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:17:09 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This is the hedgy post.

Maybe it looks that way to you. Maybe that's how you hedge. But to me, it was mobile posting, responding to MiX, and not having time to go lik up 4 or 6 people's contributions to the game. I responded with what I could at the time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 03:20:45 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 03:21:32 pm
mathdude is striking me as pretty towny, but in a way that is unfortunately pretty easy to fake.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:25:01 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:29:19 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

I almost forgot ti actually comment on your Swowl post... at this point, less than 24 hours to deadline, there is no "best shot in the dark exile". We have viaible wagons. We pick the one we think is most likely scum, then get to look back at people D2 based on flip and where they stood in the argument. Exile a lurker gives us nothing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:35:04 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Connect him to a lie detector and ask him straight up?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:36:41 pm
MiX is also here... I really don't want to read MiX.

So reading MiX sucks because I've never had to do it before. Last game I just knew he was town and I was like "haha he is town but he is a wrongo" when actually... well... enough about that.

Much has been made about MiX's super-early-townread of faust. But... isn't that what MiX is notorious for? I don't even play with him and I know that.

Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Pulling this up because it seems like an inconsistency. I just read MiX saying that he has literally no thoughts on Math. But earlier he had thoughts on Math enough to make a pretty decent sized post. I realize this was from WAY EARLIER in the game. But... does MiX just forget his own opinion on Math? Maybe if it was a fabricated opinion to start with that would be more likely.

Yes I did forget about this post. But I do remember townreading math earlier. It's just that I don't have that read anymore.


Another inconsitency related to the same "no opinion on mathdude" post:

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Earlier in the day... Mix wanted more wagons. When a wagon pops up on Math... he has no opinion? Why wouldn't someone who wants to have more wagons engage with a wagon when a new one shows up?

At least from my perspective, the math wagon came out of nowhere from the shadows. As you can see, it's comprised of 3 players that haven't posted much, so in my mind I didn't register it as a wagon when the votes were being placed. When I saw it, I just thought "hmm, people voting math, that's to be expected" and moved on. Later on I looked at it more closely and realized it was still the same, at that point I thought "if 3 people are scumreading math...maybe math's scum?", but I didn't believe that fully, or really had any concrete basis to believe it, which is why I made the "math wagon's interesting" post.


He also blankly scumreads e... who I think is town here and is also an easy misexile (and has been for years).

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?



So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

Wait.. so this is actually a serious inconsistency. He claims to have JUST REREAD all of EFHW/Jim/Math/Himself? but has no opinions on Math. What? MiX, I demand you give opinions on Math.

No, that's me saying I will reread them. I haven't done that yet, because I'm a lazy bastard and I've been having fun with other stuff today.


vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...

What the hell?

I once caught joth posting only a vote when he was scum, scumread the hell out of it as it did not make any sense in the world joth was portraying to be and it reeked of opportunism. I was right then, and so I made a mental note (or better yet, strengthened the note) saying "joth posting nothing but a vote is a scumslip". And here I am, using it, except I don't think it's quite as strong, and my rational brain's telling me it's townie.


Ok, and then the final post saying no opinion on Math that I've already heavily scrutinized.

So I came into this reread positive that I would land flatly null of MiX but I'm actually slightly scumreading him. I can't say it's a strong read though because he's all over the place. And some of it is based on a scum!math partner narrative which I'll admit is terrible to do D1. So... when you remove the confirmation bias effect... slight scum on MiX with a lot of confusion and also please answer my questions.

Did that answer your questions?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:36:55 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Connect him to a lie detector and ask him straight up?

Oh, so naive... :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:38:54 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. Hmmm…. I haven’t carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

I’m not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.

Wait, didn't I do this? I'm really sorry if you went over what you think of me bringing up that list of players, but can you please go over how me and math approached this topic?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:41:34 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:47:30 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

no one is a jerk. It's on me. I apologized, but I will again. Me not being around was not helpful.
Honestly, I should of subbed as it probably would of been a better decision for town to have someone here posting...  but I just knew I would be back home and realllllyyyy wanted to be in a game. Sorry.

Nah you don't need to sub, just don't go on vacation again during this game :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:51:07 pm
Mathdude:
-snip-
- #165 policy votes Jimmm at a time that creates a wagon of 3. Kind of some skum vibes on that one. Stuck bc Math is normally pretty meticulous and that feels lazy. But also, IDK if they would be lazy as skum. So just chalk it up as weird/skummy.

Second time this has come up. The first got lost in all the posts and I forgot to respond to it. Here it was...
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Scum is concerned with how their vote looks. Town wants discussions, especially first half of D1, and will use questions, accusations, wagons, etc. to get them. I don't get what the problem with "3rd on the wagon" is. Are you both honestly saying it's better to not have a "wagon" get above 2 votes until the few hours before deadline? Not a chance. I pushed up the early iguana wagon (don't remember if I was vote 2, 3, or even if we got to 4... I don't care. It was early, and the wagon wasn't jumping to 7 that early), then that wagon vanished. I believe votes sat at 1 or 2 per person, so I pushed Jimmmmm up to 3 votes to generate discussion. It worked. Call me scummy if you want, but when it takes 7-ish to exile, I'll push votes up to 3 or 4 in the first few days of D1 every single game.

And yes, I unvoted for a bit too make sure it wasn't a quick-exile, but the one argument raised me to go back shortly after. I stand by my votes and unvotes this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:57:05 pm
Well, catching up took longer than expected. Iguana spamming the thread this afternoon didn't help... that was a lot more to read (and a few more things to respond to) than I expected.

So my reread of a few people, mentioned here...
Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
... wil have to wait a few hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:12:27 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:16:39 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

This is demonstrably wrong. My LL, Joust'emmmmm, Joth, & EFHW rereads don't mention you. My WCD read IIRC only mentions you tangentially.

Rereading e, you can't not mention mathdude because e's main contribution to the game so far is starting the mathdude wagon.

Gkrieg has also mainly defined his game by scumreading EFHW and Mathdude. For him in particular, looking at how his reads of other players match up with mine was necessary because I find his playstyle really opaque.

MiX...yes I focused on on how MiX was reading Mathdude more than his other posts. But that was because those posts jumped out at me as requiring explanation and the rest of his posts are so all over the place that i didn't know what to do with them. I also think that MiX's mathdude posts up to my reread of him could be scummy regardless of Math's alignment. They are just... weird. An inconsistency is an inconsistency.

I realize I am focusing on you. But that is because I am voting you. And the extent to which I am doing so is not as much as you are making it out to be.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:17:31 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

I almost forgot ti actually comment on your Swowl post... at this point, less than 24 hours to deadline, there is no "best shot in the dark exile". We have viaible wagons. We pick the one we think is most likely scum, then get to look back at people D2 based on flip and where they stood in the argument. Exile a lurker gives us nothing.

Weren't you the one saying exile a lurker just a few days ago??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:20:56 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.

Yeah everyone should read this game, where I do all the things that I am currently scumreading Jim for but somehow still survive to the end. But if you're using it for comps, you should note I was traitor there which is a very specific kind of scum to be.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:26:42 pm
Quote from: MiX
Quote from: Iguana Iguana
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?

You are calling e, gkrieg and iguana lurkers. I singled out e because of what I said about him being a common D1 misexile and generally misunderstood player. gkrieg doesn't have that problem. If it helps, I was also super annoyed that you called iguana a lurker when he was too busy vaccuuming up massive piles of confetti late into the night after an EDM concert to respond.

Thank you for answering my other questions. The Joth scumslip thing is... entertaining. Calling that a scumslip though is patently ridiculous.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:27:57 pm
Ironically, this game from February that I had all but forgotten existed is M134 and we're currently playing ... M135. So idk what that says about my memory, or this community's interest in non-crazy mafia these days.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:28:52 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.

Yeah everyone should read this game, where I do all the things that I am currently scumreading Jim for but somehow still survive to the end. But if you're using it for comps, you should note I was traitor there which is a very specific kind of scum to be.

I actually think its scummy in a vacuum that there was a recent relevant scum game that you won and you didn't produce it when asked. But as mod you proved yourself to be so forgetful that it's like... w/e NAI
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:29:44 pm
I mean no offense but pubby was supposed to die
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 04:34:49 pm
Quote from: MiX
Quote from: Iguana Iguana
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?

You are calling e, gkrieg and iguana lurkers. I singled out e because of what I said about him being a common D1 misexile and generally misunderstood player. gkrieg doesn't have that problem. If it helps, I was also super annoyed that you called iguana a lurker when he was too busy vaccuuming up massive piles of confetti late into the night after an EDM concert to respond.

Thank you for answering my other questions. The Joth scumslip thing is... entertaining. Calling that a scumslip though is patently ridiculous.

I specifically did not call them lurkers. faust did.

Ironically, this game from February that I had all but forgotten existed is M134 and we're currently playing ... M135. So idk what that says about my memory, or this community's interest in non-crazy mafia these days.

It speaks of our interest in modding crazy games.

I mean no offense but pubby was supposed to die

Hider isn't inherently Weak. This is the first and only time I will dispute this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:40:22 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:43:15 pm
Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust.

I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 05:07:05 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

You have me on two wagons

I'll be gone for a while. Will try  to check in before deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 05:07:34 pm
oh  deadline is in the afternoon.  Yeah I can def. be around for it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 05:43:20 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

EBWOP I literally always do that
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 05:58:53 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and I’d like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But it’s MiX, so it’s hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Ah sorry, I don't want to share more about my reads right now, they are also still quite volatile. I do not like the EFHW wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 06:05:19 pm
Ok, thanks
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:09:59 pm
Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 06:10:37 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and I’d like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But it’s MiX, so it’s hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Ah sorry, I don't want to share more about my reads right now, they are also still quite volatile. I do not like the EFHW wagon.

Vote: joth

This follow logically.

I agree with you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 08:15:08 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Me: "This oughta be good... Oh."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 08:19:57 pm
It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

In other words, if we're both Town, scum aren't the ones who led us away from camping there? Potentially useful if true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 08:22:11 pm
It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

In other words, if we're both Town, scum aren't the ones who led us away from camping there? Potentially useful if true.

As someone that tried to do this: yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 09:59:00 pm
No one else finds it scummy that Jimmmmm was exaggerating the argument? Or do you not believe him when now he says he wasn't angry?

Town Jimmmmm never posts this much. The deliberateness of his posts since the argument points to careful crafting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 10:18:10 pm
No one else finds it scummy that Jimmmmm was exaggerating the argument? Or do you not believe him when now he says he wasn't angry?

By "lean into", I didn't mean exaggerate. I meant that at times when I thought, "Maybe I should just let it go because it's getting unproductive", I also thought, "No this is helping me engage with the game so it's helpful", and also that I was willing to use slightly stronger/blunter language that I would normally filter out, which presumably was what led you to ask why/if I was angry.

Quote
Town Jimmmmm never posts this much. The deliberateness of his posts since the argument points to careful crafting.

I never post this much, particularly Day 1. This game is, and I think will remain, an outlier. I don't think I've ever felt this strongly about something on Day 1. This is the first game in which I've encountered faust's strategy, and while in future games I won't support it, I'll also avoid repeating all the arguments.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 11:47:01 pm
Well, catching up took longer than expected. Iguana spamming the thread this afternoon didn't help... that was a lot more to read (and a few more things to respond to) than I expected.

So my reread of a few people, mentioned here...
Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
... wil have to wait a few hours.

I'm disappointed in my mobile posting... a bunch of auto-corrects I'm noticing now that I didn't see when posting.  Mostly not affecting anything (like the word "wil" instead of "will", above), but there were 1 or 2 I noticed where I missed a word, or it completely changed a word.  I think the meanings are still there.

Anyway, sitting down with the laptop now, and CFL on the TV... instead of going to bed.  Let's see how far I can get.  Rereading those I was referring to above... time to look at EFHW, Jimmmmm, MiX, and also joth and faust.  Looks like more than 4!  Whose math is this?  (I think I meant 4 on top of Jimmmmm).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 12:04:40 am
I just re-read EFHW's posts.  As I was reading through, I kept thinking "that's scummy"... "so's that"... "I get why people called that out"... "I was called scummy for something like that".

But as I kept going, I began to realize that I agree with just about everything she has posted through the whole D1, and since I'm being called scummy for a few things, it's not surprising that people are calling her scummy too.

Early mild scum-read on Jimmmmm, an awareness and attempt to avoid getting locked into a 1 vs. 1 with Jimmmmm/faust, some concerns briefly raised with a few others, namely MiX and gkrieg, then cycling back and landing on Jimmmmm.

All in, everything EFHW has said makes sense to me.  I give her almost full town-cred at this point.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 12:32:49 am
Reading MiX next.  Stop posting so much!  Why can't you post a lot less like EFHW?  It was much easier looking through her posts.  Just kidding, it's helpful.

So far, not much that looks different than the usual MiX I'm used to seeing.  A few things (mainly strategy) I disagree with... though there are some things I agree with too.  A few reads on people I disagree with him about (such as his town-read on Jimmmmm through the faust/Jimmmmm ordeal), but that's par for the course.

Maybe there's a bit less random, "100% sure" posts than I've seen from him before.  Maybe he's being a little more careful this game?  There's actually a good amount of trying to keep discussions moving productively, not letting people lurk, calling out for opinions on people we hadn't heard much about, etc.

Then this:
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!

He realizes he may be being just a little too helpful and less like himself, then starts backing off again.

This strikes me as interesting:
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

He points out my wagon at the time, calls the people lurkers, but deflects that call and says "I'm not calling them lurkers, it was faust who called them that".  It is true though that votes on me this game have been by people who haven't posted as much this game.

Then more towards the present, he's really hedging on the Jimmmmm vote.  Back to his usual self, absolutely confident that Jimmmmm is town.  (Who can be that sure at this point except scum?  Oh, right... MiX can too, regardless of alignment).  But when he says we might as well exile Jimmmmm if we have nothing else, to sort out people, it's like he seems to know a town result, and that that will make for another easy misexile for his team D2.

Maybe I'm just finally getting back to my usual "I always find MiX scummy", or maybe I'm onto something.  At this point in my re-reads, I'd say it's MiX or Jimmmmm, but almost guaranteed not both.  If MiX is town, he's misreading Jimmmmm.  If MiX is scum, he went too far in his confidence that Jimmmmm is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 12:34:33 am
Vote: joth

So this prompted me to do a re-read on Joth, because I don't get what you and MiX get at glance.
TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

Joth:
#44 Hi Everybody - Not skummy. Not anything. What IS weird is the amount of skumminess that MiX was assigning to people for different reasons. Joth for using punctuation, Iguana for having a pre-determined vote? That is all nonsense. This is a Joth read though, will get to that later.

#56/#58 - all about mix and faust wagon and how he will over-react. These are weird posts. Especially because he assigns town points to MiX and Faust. So if you think you know what they are doing... and you think they are towny... why say that? That is moderately skummy.

#104 - "trying something new, which should be towny for reasons I am not going to explain". Totally lost. No clue why you would say that. Or why it should be assumed towny.

#108 - votes Math because Math wants wagons. I disagree that Math's way of looking at things is skummy, and I disagree with #110 "skum just wants to exile skum" to be applied vs town caring so early in the game... but ultimately, not skummy.

#129 - Asks faust to say more about having wagons being the best way to catch skum. That question is skummy. It deflects the conversation, he doesn't give any insight himself, and if it works (which it does) it gets a big ole' convo going about shit that just floods the thread. skummy.

#144 - TR on MiX and Didds. Null on MiX. Finds a nice way in a middle spot onto EFHW... who I think is skummy, so I guess that is not skummy. Or I am wrong about EFHW, in which case it could be skummy.

#163 - self aware post of possibly altering read on WCD. starting to talk myself into towny joth at this point.

#300 - Votes Jimmm. Switching from the only other wagon of EFHW. Reason being that the back and forth between faust and Jimmm was "enlightening" and that Jimmm came out skummy. Bias skum points simply because I disagree with 100% of the entire post. It was not enlightening, it was a waste of space about semantics (no offense, just my opinion). And Jimmm, if there is anyway to say someone is skummy when talking about a bunch of nothing, def did not come off skummy to me.

#301 - ok... follows it up with a decent reason on why he thought faust was towny and jimm was skummy. Still disagree, but def lessens the skumminess previously felt. 

#309 - "OMGUS is (almost) never a tactical decision. It's a way of expressing frustration. Granted, town can also get frustrated with town (or scum) but that usually happens when someone is being annoying or intransigent and I just don't see faust doing that. He's making good, cogent points in response to your criticism of caseless voting. So your frustration, expressed through an OMGUS vote, reads to me as scummy frustration at not being able to make progress dissolving a day one wagon on you." - this entire paragraph contradicts itself. This is skummy af imo. This is just trying to get a point across while not actually making a point in order to further push the person you want to push.

#312 - calls out faust on potentially trying to take advantage of TVT wagon situation. Which... he is just all over the map so far. IDK, up to now been thinking possibly protecting faust, but this would kind of throw that out the window.

#347 - says will join Math with no reasons given. this is right after they were asking people not to diverge off of current wagons, of which MAth was not one of them.

#406 - Calls skum team of MiX/Jimmm. Opens the door for a mix vote.

#412 - Lists reasons why Jimmm is skummy:
"-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).
1. Ok yes fair. But like a really smallllll thing imo. Not enough to deserve this tunnel.
2. already said, think that happens more as town than skum, so disagree.
3. againnnnnnn with the partnery day 1 thing which I just never see any reason for town to say out loud and see tons of reasons for skum to soft ball in there.

#449 - ok this is the cumulation post of explanations of why he thinks Jimmm is skummy that actually makes sense. I don't agree with all of it. But also it is towny.

#491 - gives credit to jimmm for mounting a defense that is good. However, does the efoo thing and chalks it up to "but jimmm could do it as skum". Then also adds in a partner pair possibility of Faust and Jimmm. THIS IS WHY THIS IS SUPER SKUMMY - There has been talk at this point of Jimmm/EFHW and there has been a bit of talk about MiX/Faust. That just opened the door to go for either MiX or Faust, as he already opened it for MiX multiple times earlier. It also goes way back on the previous read of Town!Faust vs Skum!Jimmm.

#511 - random move back to EFHW after hard tunneling Jimmm.

#551 - Now math is towny all of sudden?


TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

PPE
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:37:13 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!

He realizes he may be being just a little too helpful and less like himself, then starts backing off again.

I read this as MiX sarcastically saying that faust was returning to wackyness. His next few posts after this one seem more productive than wacky.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:47:57 am
faust, what changed in the 16 hours between these posts?

Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:49:52 am
Also, here you're still arguing that I'm scum.

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 12:54:23 am
I just re-read EFHW's posts.  As I was reading through, I kept thinking "that's scummy"... "so's that"... "I get why people called that out"... "I was called scummy for something like that".

But as I kept going, I began to realize that I agree with just about everything she has posted through the whole D1, and since I'm being called scummy for a few things, it's not surprising that people are calling her scummy too.

Early mild scum-read on Jimmmmm, an awareness and attempt to avoid getting locked into a 1 vs. 1 with Jimmmmm/faust, some concerns briefly raised with a few others, namely MiX and gkrieg, then cycling back and landing on Jimmmmm.

All in, everything EFHW has said makes sense to me.  I give her almost full town-cred at this point.

To bolded - I get what you are saying, but like... that is skummy right? Early shade for weak reasons. then says no 1v1 lock in. so they can't go back yet. then the faust/jimm thing ends and they back on Jimmm. How is that not skummy?

ppe jim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:01:23 am
Well, I was going to read joth next.  But it seems Swowl has just posted a full recap of joth's posts with commentary.  So I guess I'll just steal little bits from there instead of going back through everything myself.

The game opening by joth being "trying something new" does not strike me as townie.  As Swowl says, there are a lot of things that read as scummy, but I agree that this just isn't a joth thing to do, leaving so many scummy bits out there for us.  I think that makes it more likely that this is a careless town!joth than a scum!joth.

Until we get to this:
I would join this wagon.
After e votes for me an iguana joins, joth hypothetically wants to continue building a wagon on me.  But he wants to avoid that (apparently) dreaded 3rd vote on someone, so he tries to lure someone else into it first.

Then tunneling Jimmmm.  Then jumping wagons to EFHW.  Then I have no idea.  Then calling out partner pairs.  ... I'm not sure where to go with this?  I expected less "issues" from reading joth.  Sounds like a Traitor or a weird 3rd party to me, but pretty sure we don't have those here.

I guess I'll end by saying I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.  It's not one of those "in-the-middle, slightly leaning one way" deals.  Except that it is, because I don't know which way I'm leaning.  Not a viable wagon D1 at this point anyway here, so I'll check back again D2 if/when relevant.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:09:55 am
TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

Without actually having re-read joth (or even fully read this post), I'm feeling similarly. Something about his #490 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877111#msg877111); it's either really Towny or really scummy, and I can't put my finger on which. The last two sentences suggest he's either genuinely trying to figure things out but some doubts are creeping in, or things didn't continue down the path he was expecting, so he needs to give himself the option to change tact without fully giving up on the Jim v faust thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:16:24 am
Time for faust.

He wanted to join me and make a real early wagon on MiX, but either I moved on too fast or he showed up too slow.  I don't know... NAI?

I don't like this at all:
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
If this were stated today, and we had very little discussion about MiX all D1, then it makes sense.  But it was early D1.  On its own, chalk it up to being faust.  Now combined with his desire to vote MiX early without actually doing it, looks like buddying to me.

[I'm fading here... it's too late for me to be up!]
Skimming the rest of faust's posts, looks on par with what I expect.  Like my "connection" to MiX, I disagree with a bunch of things he says, but that's normal.  Not much standing out.  Throwing votes onto MiX, and most recently joth seem on par.

I think I'm leaning town-ish for faust for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:26:30 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:27:50 am
Final comments on checking Jimmmmm again before my eyes close for good...

Still seeing the same as I was seeing before.  If this is a new town!Jimmmmm and we need to note this going forward that he really gets into it instead of just lurking, I think that's an overall win.  But to me, right now, it still sits as differents/scummy.

I do see some of his most recent posts (last 24 hours maybe) coming across as more genuine and townie, compared to the first 5 days.  But that's a read I can't break myself from at this point.  Maybe I just doubled down with a bias, but that's what it is then.

... back tomorrow.  And I'm sure there will be a flurry of night posts for me to read in the morning, as there always are.  Leaving my vote on Jimmmmm for now.  Probably willing to switch it over to MiX if that's where we want to go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:33:04 am
Still seeing the same as I was seeing before.  If this is a new town!Jimmmmm and we need to note this going forward that he really gets into it instead of just lurking, I think that's an overall win.  But to me, right now, it still sits as differents/scummy.

As mentioned previously, I doubt I'll have another Day 1 like this one. I do intend to only play when I can be reasonably active, but it's also about momentum for me; if I fall behind I generally stay behind for some time. I would say that of all the factors that determine my activity level, alignment may be on the list, but it's towards the bottom.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 03:13:13 am
faust, what changed in the 16 hours between these posts?

Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
My read on you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 03:14:37 am
What changed your read on me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 03:18:41 am
What changed your read on me?
I'm not willing to give scum a primer on how to talk me out of scumreading them, sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 08:29:12 am
Having another look at EFHW. This jumped out at me:

Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote

EFHW votes MiX in agreement with joth's assertion that policy exiles are scummy (or rather, policy votes or advocating for a policy exile). Then when MiX states that he now scumreads EFHW for that post and is no longer trying to policy exile her, EFHW immediately unvotes. Why would the fact that he's now saying it's also scummy change the scumminess of the original call for a policy exile?

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:03:20 am
Whoa, this could be something. Swowl mentioning joth asking about wagons as a way to flood the thread reminded of something I saw recently.

This game:

Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.


Czech Mafia, in which joth was scum:

...
But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.
...


Why is joth asking the same question again?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:21:26 am
Hang on. Earlier he demonstrated that he understands the wagons thing perfectly and that it's a good, Towny plan, only to later bemoan the f.ds meta of using wagons to put pressure on people:

I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that I’ll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. It’s a good plan, town points all around.

I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a “viable” wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe it’s possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagons’ sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 09:27:47 am
I'm more curious about why joth has ignored my support of exiling you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 09:32:21 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
In you,  I'd say town. Scum!you wouldn't get carried away by emotion, and I don't think you did in this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:34:23 am
ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

joth does have a bunch of opinions about wagons that are weird. In fact, this is most of his posts early in D1.

joth then votes EFHW to sheep, then scumreads Jimmmmm and votes there, then scumreads faust after townreading them before. Then votes EFHW. Hmm.

I think joth's town. But this looks really weird. It probably means joth is scum, but I don't know, I like wall posts from joth and he's been making enough...

This isn't an easy person to read today I'd say.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:37:15 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
In you,  I'd say town. Scum!you wouldn't get carried away by emotion, and I don't think you did in this game.

I don't know why, but I found this funny. Like, using the fact that I said I wasn't angry to argue that I'm scum, even though you thought I was angry. Do you think as scum I would allow myself to be perceived as angry?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:52:57 am
EFHW is town.

What is there to say about this...her Jimmmmm case is very strong and townie. It's logical, consistent, and yet has that tiny bit of not knowing Jimmmmm's alignment. It reveals EFHW's been reading the game closely for scumhunting.

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:54:44 am
...
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

This struck me as odd at the time; how can you PoE someone early Day 1? Then I realised it must have been PoE out of the wagons and yeah joth's attitude to wagons is super weird.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:55:34 am
...
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

This struck me as odd at the time; how can you PoE someone early Day 1? Then I realised it must have been PoE out of the wagons and yeah joth's attitude to wagons is super weird.

I've been assuming it's a joke.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 09:57:19 am
What can I say guys? I’m a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:59:53 am
What can I say guys? I’m a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.

Vote: joth

A smart man once said, the only sure way to know someone's alignment...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 10:08:17 am
Seriously I can address some of this if it’s helpful but since no one but faust seems to actually think I’m scummy enough to vote for, might not be a great use of energy rn. Also I’m not gonna promise explanations will be 100% satisfying.

I have a really disorganized brain and a really poor working memory. I think that sets me apart from most forum mafia players. It’s definitely not going to do me any favors when you’re declaring a contradiction with a post from 2018. But contradictions within this game I feel deserve to be addressed, so let’s talk about wagons and nonsense some more.

I guess the bottom line is that I find F.DS’s day 1 meta exhausting. We always run around in circles for 20+ pages arguing about nothing because we have no info and end up on a weak consensus exile that’s significantly worse than random. And some of the tactics we use to do this inane dance have to do with wagons and pressure voting.

Which, to paraphrase Churchill, is the worst way of doing things except for all the others.

So I really like to challenge the conventional wisdom around wagons and pressure votes and things partly because it gives me something to talk about out the gate and partly because deep down I hope to find a better way of doing things that sticks going forward.

But often I end up coming back to wagons and pressure myself because it’s a learned behavior and it sort of works sometimes?

This game I really wanted to just pick a read and stay on them for the sake of limiting scum’s ability to manipulate and maybe I should have stuck to my guns there. The switch to EFHW was a bit of a whim and looking back not really helpful in any way.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:11:41 am
What was your purpose in asking faust to say more about wagons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 10:19:41 am
What was your purpose in asking faust to say more about wagons?

I think I wanted to draw out the difference between productive wagon analysis and wagonning for waggoning’s sake. I do think there’s an important distinction.

Like the other thing we were arguing about today was unexplained votes.

Wagons do two things— one they create pressure that creates reactions that can be alignment-indicative, and they do that regardless of whether the votes that make them up are genuine votes based on genuine scumreads.

But the other thing they do is allow for wagon analysis, which is where we start construct theories about who’s scum based on the web of who’s voted for whom. The problem is, votes without reasons or votes that were just done for pressure or to create wagons sort of make this kind of analysis less useful.

So I think I wanted to make a case a bit more nuanced then “wagons are good no wagons are bad”. Certain wagons are useful, but that doesn’t mean that all wagons are good and therefore you can do whatever you want as long as it makes a wagon. But I asked faust the question because I wanted to get their in a Socratic way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:29:18 am
I accept that. Obviously you've been mulling over the wagon stuff, and that seems to be the cause of the weirdness. I'm not so much into past-game meta analysis, but I had a quick look at a couple of your recent scum games and couldn't find any more similar example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 10:31:47 am
This game I really wanted to just pick a read and stay on them for the sake of limiting scum’s ability to manipulate and maybe I should have stuck to my guns there. The switch to EFHW was a bit of a whim and looking back not really helpful in any way.

Vote: Jimmmmm
I'm confused about this. Weren't you voting for EFHW before you ever started suspecting Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:33:24 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

I was thinking Jimmmmm and EFHW, but I see the EFHW wagon has sputtered out.

Anyway, let's get rid of Jimmmmm, he's being very scummy.

So this is you trying to stick with your read and advocating against running around in circles?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:35:48 am
I would join this wagon.

This was about mathdude. Were you considering having mathdude be your read for Today, or would joining that wagon be non-committal?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:37:12 am
I would join this wagon.

This was about mathdude. Were you considering having mathdude be your read for Today, or would joining that wagon be non-committal?

Wait no this was after you were already on me. How did this relate to your plan?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:38:46 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

This seems to directly contradict your being open to joining the mathdude wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:40:03 am
(You said the two wagons were me and EFHW, although math had the most votes at the time.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 10:46:33 am
Having another look at EFHW. This jumped out at me:

Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. It’s not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote

EFHW votes MiX in agreement with joth's assertion that policy exiles are scummy (or rather, policy votes or advocating for a policy exile). Then when MiX states that he now scumreads EFHW for that post and is no longer trying to policy exile her, EFHW immediately unvotes. Why would the fact that he's now saying it's also scummy change the scumminess of the original call for a policy exile?
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:52:23 am
I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.

I would like to know why MiX said joth voting for EFHW was a scumslip - was that ever explained? Was it just because it contradicted his plan?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 10:54:32 am
I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.

I would like to know why MiX said joth voting for EFHW was a scumslip - was that ever explained? Was it just because it contradicted his plan?
He explains in #555.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:56:28 am
Ah, thanks.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:57:19 am
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.

So, you would only find a policy exile suggestion scummy if it's accompanied by a vote? Does the fact that it's not accompanied by vote indicate it's not serious?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:05:02 am
I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

I'm trying to understand this. faust is Town in this scenario, yes? Is the idea that get myself into some deep water, and trust my ability to reason my way out with the Towny posts I could make with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:09:00 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and I’m not going to have service. It’s a bad happenstance!

So I’m looking for advice… if not EFHW, who?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:09:33 am
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

Should there be some kind of a "but" between these sentences? IE, this is explained by your #451 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877066#msg877066)?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 11:11:18 am
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.

So, you would only find a policy exile suggestion scummy if it's accompanied by a vote? Does the fact that it's not accompanied by vote indicate it's not serious?
He made it clear he was resisting the urge. Very different from advocating.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:11:53 am
Can anyone do a vote count?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:15:00 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and I’m not going to have service. It’s a bad happenstance!

So I’m looking for advice… if not EFHW, who?

Oh shoot! I've been super mixed up by timezones. I thought the deadline had been pushed back for some reason, as first it was saying September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time, and then it changed to saying September 19 at 5:00 AM. But I went back and checked just now and the latter has changed to saying "Today at 5:00 AM" and I realised that it's showing the time in my timezone. So deadline is in fact less than 4 hours away, and it's already past 1am for me. I thought I'd have tomorrow to settle on a vote. :(
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:17:36 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and I’m not going to have service. It’s a bad happenstance!

So I’m looking for advice… if not EFHW, who?

joth? That's my guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:21:57 am
Can anyone do a vote count?

Vote Count 1.MiX

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (0):

EoD is in 3:39 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:23:01 am
Can anyone do a vote count?

Vote Count 1.MiX

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (0):

EoD is in 3:39 hours.

I hereby veto the faust wagon on the grounds of "it's never correct to exile faust D1. No, this is not why town lost last game".

All the other wagons are viable though. This is fun.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 11:24:10 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and I’m not going to have service. It’s a bad happenstance!

So I’m looking for advice… if not EFHW, who?
I'm pretty sure everyone's adivce is going to be "the person I'm voting for".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:24:18 am
If we end up defaulting to a lurker exile I would suggest e. He's posted a bit without really contributing, whereas Swowl has made a couple of solid-looking posts despite having a lower post count.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:25:00 am
I better look at mathdude.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:33:43 am
Thank you for the vote count, MiX.

I’m straight up sheeping my town reads. I’m sorry I don’t have more time. I thought I was couch lounging today, not going to the lake. I might be able to check in later, but I’m just not sure.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:41:08 am
Initial thought on mathdude. His re-reads don't seem super genuine to me. Could be that he was tired, so he had to struggle through them, and could be that I already knew he started on me and never moved.

Checked the votes on him, and there is no case, beyond "eager for wagons" and "third on the wagon". I'm not joining a late-Day wagon full of reasonless votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:42:22 am
I'm not loving any of the wagons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:47:21 am
LaLight would be another contender for the lurker exile. Has basically no content aside from that he'd love to see MiX or faust exiled but not me. I kind of feel like scum would make more of an effort to contribute something though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 11:48:02 am
Thank you for the vote count, MiX.

I’m straight up sheeping my town reads. I’m sorry I don’t have more time. I thought I was couch lounging today, not going to the lake. I might be able to check in later, but I’m just not sure.

Vote: Joth

Can I suggest Jim?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:56:33 am
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 01:17:27 pm
I'm here. I would exile elsewhere to avoid nexile, but right now where I'm at looks best.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:29:15 pm
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

I realize I'm after those 10 minutes, and I'm guessing you voted me solely for self-preservation since I had the most votes. But you really should have looked at one of the people others have actually expressed a willingness to vote for. Someone whose some will actually give us reads on other people once we see a flip.

I honestly don't get the votes on me. There's nothing to defend against.

e voted me early, hasn't moved, hasn't participated much.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).

gkrieg had a naked vote, I believe as well. And he hasn't said much else... regarding me or others. Just let the vote stick.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 01:36:18 pm
Almost no activity 2 hours before deadline.

What a time to exile people.

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 01:44:19 pm
Almost no activity 2 hours before deadline.

What a time to exile people.

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Didds is voting Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 01:51:01 pm
EFHW (1): Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (3): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 01:54:18 pm
Swowl and LaLight really need to be here, but with LaLight in particular I'm doubtful that we'll see them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:02:03 pm
MiX, I never read that Joth game. What about it made him look similar to here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:03:45 pm
MiX, I never read that Joth game. What about it made him look similar to here?

Which game?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:04:21 pm
I don't know! You linked one and I never had time to look at it!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 18, 2021, 02:05:02 pm
So how much time do we have?

It has been a very busy last two days, sorry for the inactivity. Still like my math vote, don't like jimmmm wagon, would exile joth if necessary
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:07:13 pm
So how much time do we have?

It has been a very busy last two days, sorry for the inactivity. Still like my math vote, don't like jimmmm wagon, would exile joth if necessary

55 minutes.

I don't know! You linked one and I never had time to look at it!

In both games joth is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:08:08 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 18, 2021, 02:14:26 pm
Just popping in. Likely won’t be around for the deadline. Happy with my vote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:15:11 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

I linked the game because joth was trying really hard to find a game where he was scum but was failing to do so. So I did. It has nothing to do with me comparing him to that game or anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 18, 2021, 02:15:49 pm
I don’t like the Jimmmmm wagon, people on it are scummy. Could change my vote to joth if needed, I’ll try to come back right before deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:18:11 pm
I'm here. I'll move if necessary for an exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:18:52 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

I linked the game because joth was trying really hard to find a game where he was scum but was failing to do so. So I did. It has nothing to do with me comparing him to that game or anything.

And here I was thinking you had actual reasons for voting Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 02:24:03 pm
I’m at work and attempting to multi task here.
Obv EFHW isn’t happening so I’ll go Joth

I’ll be able to check back like 15 mins out

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:27:11 pm
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:44:56 pm
Fine, vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:49:01 pm
We need 2 more votes to exile joth.

Who's even here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 02:54:05 pm
Mobile. Here ish but also already on Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:54:38 pm
The 3 of us can switch to math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:54:54 pm
The 3 of us can switch to math

Meh.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:54:58 pm
vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:55:16 pm
5 min
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:57:15 pm
Seriously?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:57:30 pm
Seriously?

Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:57:44 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:58:26 pm
 Do you and Swowl  both prefer no exile?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 02:59:59 pm
Thread Locked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 03:06:06 pm
Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 03:12:03 pm
A buzzer rang out through the ship's halls. Everyone gathered in the cafeteria around Cyan and the emergency meeting button they had pressed. Many accusations were made, but no conclusive evidence had been found, so the crew decided not to throw anyone out the airlock.

Nobody was exiled. N1 begins now and will end September 20, 2021, 03:00:00 pm. Night actions are due at least 12 hours before then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 20, 2021, 03:06:44 pm
After some more time working on tasks, a buzzer rang out. This time, Yellow ran into the cafeteria. "I found a body! Lime Green's body was in security!"

LaLight has been killed. They were a Crew-Aligned Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 begins now. Thread unlocked.

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): MiX, Swowl, faust, mathdude, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: MiX on September 20, 2021, 03:14:50 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 20, 2021, 03:19:35 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 20, 2021, 03:20:16 pm
Oh! Poor LaLi!

Also, hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!!!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: MiX on September 20, 2021, 03:21:12 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math

Yeah. Even I make mistakes :P

It's not like me voting math would've changed anything, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:03:29 pm
sorry I didn't come back for deadline. RL stuff.

I guess no exile is OK.

why math?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:04:14 pm
this isn't JUST day 1 again, we at least have one flip. Should probably try to divine something from it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:12:16 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 04:13:56 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math

Yeah. Even I make mistakes :P

It's not like me voting math would've changed anything, right?

as it turns out no it wouldn't of. I PPEd moving to Math by like 8 seconds on the thread lock :/


Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 04:14:50 pm
Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 20, 2021, 05:11:01 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 20, 2021, 07:51:25 pm
why math?

Because he wants to start acting scummy now on D2. Town-read math D1, then start saying I'm scummy now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 20, 2021, 08:03:42 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

Bold added for emphasis. I know my experience here is fairly limited. But I have noticed that through my games here, the dead have an above average probability of having correct reads, yet we almost never do anything about it.

I doubt we're lucky enough that LL picked 2 on D1. But between the two, I still feel MiX is town-ish, so to start the day, I'll sheep LL's faust suspicion for now.

Vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:18:03 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:22:21 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:24:47 pm
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.

I don't think even if I had switched that an exile would have happened, so that's my only consolation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 09:09:02 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLight’s an IC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 09:12:26 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLight’s an IC.

Don't you know that ICs have worse information than you because they only know their own alignment, and everyone else knows their alignment plus the IC's alignment??

(Read this in an awaclus voice lol)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:42:54 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 20, 2021, 09:51:46 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 09:54:10 pm
I'm inclined to think mathdude is Town. He had a very similar reaction to joth as I did, and I'm not sure that it's a reaction that someone who knew joth's alignment would have.

I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.

it's either really Towny or really scummy, and I can't put my finger on which.

(Even though my post is immediately after mathdude's,  I hadn't actually read his post properly until after the Day was over.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:54:13 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLight’s an IC.

Well a dead IC. So don't really get the value in town sheeping there. Its not like you know LL was right, you just know they were town.

Also..... abbreviate "dead innocent child" and tell me you don't lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:55:36 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 10:15:19 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 10:22:36 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

For one, deadline was 5am for me. I'm typically not showing up for that regardless of alignment. Others in more favourable timezones may have had other reasons they couldn't be around, and some have indicated so. It might be worth having a soft deadline in future.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 10:38:17 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

I didn’t understand this post at all.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:05:46 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:09:09 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

I didn’t understand this post at all.

TLDR; I think you are skum because I think one of either Math or Joth are skum. And I pick you over Math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:11:03 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

For one, deadline was 5am for me. I'm typically not showing up for that regardless of alignment. Others in more favourable timezones may have had other reasons they couldn't be around, and some have indicated so. It might be worth having a soft deadline in future.

efoo's note mentioned "they didn't bother to show up". Obvious IRL timezone stuff or whatever you just have to disregard. My question was based on the language leading me to believe she thought they purposefully did not come into the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:16:06 pm
So Swowl, you're basing your vote on joth, who you fairly recently said you didn't think was scum, on the assumption that the wagons weren't Town v Town and the unconfirmed alignments of those on the wagons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:25:30 pm
So Swowl, you're basing your vote on joth, who you fairly recently said you didn't think was scum, on the assumption that the wagons weren't Town v Town and the unconfirmed alignments of those on the wagons?

You would make a great lawyer.
Yes, that is what I am saying. It was also day 1, so there were no confirmed alignments.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:31:59 pm
No I'm talking about now. I get voting for the least bad alternative leading up to deadline, but an early Day 2 vote suggests your read on joth has changed. Given you now have ten other alternatives, I'm not finding your reasoning convincing, particularly in contrast to the long, thought-out post in which you concluded joth was Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:39:44 pm
No I'm talking about now. I get voting for the least bad alternative leading up to deadline, but an early Day 2 vote suggests your read on joth has changed. Given you now have ten other alternatives, I'm not finding your reasoning convincing, particularly in contrast to the long, thought-out post in which you concluded joth was Town.

1. I said I think either Joth or Math are skum. Regardless of how you feel about it, that is what I think. So, I do not have 10 to pick from, I have 2.
2. As you said, I thought yesterday that Joth was the "least bad alternative".
3. Joth opened with a vote for MiX, which I find as a skummy vote.

Add 1+2+3 = vote Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:41:18 pm
I am actually a little confused of your fixation on this. Would you of asked me the same (yet different) question if I had opened with a Math vote?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:42:58 pm
And you now think that joth isn't playing too scummy to scum, and that he does do that as scum? Are you sure you haven't just talked yourself into scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:44:29 pm
I am actually a little confused of your fixation on this. Would you of asked me the same (yet different) question if I had opened with a Math vote?

No, the only read I see of yours on math is a "middle leaning scummy" read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:45:46 pm
I would still question the assumption that one of them is scum though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:46:39 pm
And you now think that joth isn't playing too scummy to scum, and that he does do that as scum? Are you sure you haven't just talked yourself into scum?

you know I was actually just thinking that I could be after I posted the previous.

ppe 2
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:48:37 pm
so then you are entertaining the idea that it was TVT and also skum didn't show up to make it happen?

You are not voting math, so then you think that skum was just trapped where they were?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:58:39 pm
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:03:41 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:04:06 am
fuck *exile* sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:08:35 am
fuck *exile* sorry.

I've had to replace "lynch" with "exile" in my posts a whole bunch of times, and I'm sure sooner or later one will get through.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:09:41 am
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

I also want to know about this. You claimed that Joth was too scummy to be scum and I thought you said that Math was your second scum read after EFHW. Then when time came to vote... you voted Joth.

What happened there?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:13:04 am
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:15:34 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

I would have thought the sample size here would be low enough that you couldn't really conclude anything.

To make sure I understand:
There are three scum in this game. You're arguing that what happened was (at least, but presumably exactly) one scum was a candidate, and the remaining two refused to bus them in a situation where if they were Town they would have helped get an exile through, and those two scum made the difference between an exile going through or not?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:18:26 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 21, 2021, 12:38:04 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

We're talking the difference between probable and possible. Discussions so far today have been focused on what's stated as "probable". It would be tough to crunch numbers on such a situation, since it's not perfectly random, independent events. We're talking interactions, teammates, time zones and online times, etc.

Probable is helpful D1, especially toward end of day. And if we don't sort stuff out through 5 or 6 days in D2, maybe we look back at "probable" EoD2 as well. But tunneling on it for 7 days is not helpful.

Let's look at what else is possible. Open up the conversation. I'll leave my vote for now - because it's possible he's scum. I don't know yet how probable, but that will likely sort itself out over the next couple days.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:40:05 am
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.

I don't think even if I had switched that an exile would have happened, so that's my only consolation.
Yeah, I was also 3 minutes late. I feel that having the deadline on a weekend didn't help things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:43:11 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:45:03 am
vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:46:07 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

We're talking the difference between probable and possible. Discussions so far today have been focused on what's stated as "probable". It would be tough to crunch numbers on such a situation, since it's not perfectly random, independent events. We're talking interactions, teammates, time zones and online times, etc.

Probable is helpful D1, especially toward end of day. And if we don't sort stuff out through 5 or 6 days in D2, maybe we look back at "probable" EoD2 as well. But tunneling on it for 7 days is not helpful.

Let's look at what else is possible. Open up the conversation. I'll leave my vote for now - because it's possible he's scum. I don't know yet how probable, but that will likely sort itself out over the next couple days.

I'm not talking about possible vs probable. Anything that I don't know to be impossible is possible. "Certain" may have been the wrong word - I meant "consider sufficiently probable". I'm not convinced that Swowl's theory is more probable than random, let alone sufficiently probable. And I also have to weigh it against the fact that I think mathdude and joth are each some amount more likely than average to be Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:46:29 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:48:59 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:50:09 am
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:51:46 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.

No, I mean who had the chance to exile them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:59:36 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.

No, I mean who had the chance to exile them?
Pretty much anyone? It's easy to justify a last-minute switch in the face of "we need an exile".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:07:26 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

I would have thought the sample size here would be low enough that you couldn't really conclude anything.

To make sure I understand:
There are three scum in this game. You're arguing that what happened was (at least, but presumably exactly) one scum was a candidate, and the remaining two refused to bus them in a situation where if they were Town they would have helped get an exile through, and those two scum made the difference between an exile going through or not?

No clue on what you mean about sample size. In the very small amount of sites I have played on since I started I would very much argue that you can pro-town argue policy anything with group over pretty much anywhere else I have played.

And... yes, or at least kind of. Just like... why would skum not take advantage of a claim situation potential like that if they could go for either/or?

PPE a lot
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:10:19 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

this. also, they would be thinking they could get a town claim out of it, not just defense on skum not having to claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:17:40 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

? the certainty I have is based on the things I have said about how I think one of them are skum. If you disagree, that is cool. But we did not get an exile, so yeah... the majority of my focus during the night was on the wagons we had from Day 1. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:05:05 am
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:07:38 am
That's an excellent reason to focus on them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:17:00 am
Player     Vote     Last post (time before deadline)     Wagons at time of last post     Ability to be around at deadline     Willingness to change vote
MiXjothAround at deadline     math 5, joth 4YesUnwilling to move to mathdude
SwowljothAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesDid not move to mathdude, but later said he tried to
EFHWmathAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesYes
iguanamath30 minutesmath 4, joth 4, Jim 3No indicationIndicated willing to avoid nexile
gkriegmath45 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated likely inabilityjoth yes, Jim no
emath55 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationjoth yes, Jim no
faustjoth1 hourmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationNo indication
mathJim1.5 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationPresumed willing due to self-preservation
Jimmath3 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated inability due to timezonesNo indication
jothJim3 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to RL stuff     Presumed willing due to self-preservation
Diddsjoth3.5 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Unsure due to going to the lakeYes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 02:24:28 am
Why is it relevant to include what joth said about his availability after the fact, but not for me or iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:26:59 am
I'm not seeing too many opportunities to get an exile through. MiX and Swowl could have exiled math, so you could argue for a math/MiX/Swowl team.
Aside from from those around at deadline, at the time of each person's last post, the biggest wagon was 4 (X - 3), and for most the biggest opposing wagon was 3 (X - 4). You could argue iguana should have switched to joth or faust or Didds should have switched to math, or that you don't believe people who say they weren't available, but given how late it was when anyone hit 4 or 5 votes, I would attribute the no exile to general disorganisation and failure to come to consensus, rather than 1-2 people not doing what they should have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:27:27 am
Why is it relevant to include what joth said about his availability after the fact, but not for me or iguana?

Thanks, I should have checked. Hang on.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:33:27 am
Player     Vote     Last post (time before deadline)     Wagons at time of last post     Ability to change vote before deadline     Willingness to change vote
MiXjothAround at deadline     math 5, joth 4YesUnwilling to move to mathdude
SwowljothAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesDid not move to mathdude, but later indicated he tried to but was late
EFHWmathAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesYes
iguanamath30 minutesmath 4, joth 4, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to being pulled away, and then was late     Indicated willing to avoid nexile
gkriegmath45 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated likely inabilityjoth yes, Jim no
emath55 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationjoth yes, Jim no
faustjoth1 hourmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated he tried to but was lateNo indication
mathJim1.5 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationPresumed willing due to self-preservation
Jimmath3 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Inability due to timezonesNo indication
jothJim3 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to RL stuff     Presumed willing due to self-preservation
Diddsjoth3.5 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Unsure due to going to the lakeYes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:55:05 am
Actually funnily enough both joth and mathdude had their votes on me instead of each other, so if you want to argue that scum were responsible for the no-exile, I think there's a stronger argument that they're both scum than that one of them is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 04:28:59 am
Hey Jimmmmm, could you explain in more detail what made you vote mathdude over joth? Your EoD1 posts are a bit terse on the issue, which is understandable given the lack of time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 04:50:25 am
I'm not seeing too many opportunities to get an exile through. MiX and Swowl could have exiled math, so you could argue for a math/MiX/Swowl team.
Aside from from those around at deadline, at the time of each person's last post, the biggest wagon was 4 (X - 3), and for most the biggest opposing wagon was 3 (X - 4). You could argue iguana should have switched to joth or faust or Didds should have switched to math, or that you don't believe people who say they weren't available, but given how late it was when anyone hit 4 or 5 votes, I would attribute the no exile to general disorganisation and failure to come to consensus, rather than 1-2 people not doing what they should have.
This analysis is alright, and I don't think the nexile was due to people maliciously skipping the deadline. However "General disorganisation" is something that scum definitely had an impact on. The leading wagon at the end was joth, and it started fairly late, and at the time a lot of people were hesitant to join for very lackluster reasons. Here is a timeline:

Vote: joth
Me starting the joth wagon. T-21 hours.

Vote: joth

This follow logically.

I agree with you.
MiX voices agreement but won't join me in voting. T-21 hours.

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?
[...]
TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.
Swowl investigates joth and does a weird "too scummy to be scum" defense. T-14.5 hours.

I guess I'll end by saying I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.  It's not one of those "in-the-middle, slightly leaning one way" deals.  Except that it is, because I don't know which way I'm leaning.  Not a viable wagon D1 at this point anyway here, so I'll check back again D2 if/when relevant.
mathdude does not perceive joth to be a viable option and that's his main reason against voting there. T-14 hours.

I think joth's town. But this looks really weird. It probably means joth is scum, but I don't know, I like wall posts from joth and he's been making enough...

This isn't an easy person to read today I'd say.
MiX is also very ambivalent about joth, which seems in contrast to his earlier reaction to my vote. T-5.5 hours.

What can I say guys? I’m a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.

Vote: joth

A smart man once said, the only sure way to know someone's alignment...
MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours.

I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.
Jimmmmm joins the club of "uh I don't really know but let's look at this tomorrow". At least this point has an actual read in it. T-4 hours.

Vote: Joth
This vote from Didds makes joth a semi-viable option. I feel like they can't be partners. T-3.5 hours.

Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude
Jimmmmm joins a wagon he expressed dislike for rather than the wagon on joth. T-3 hours.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.
mathdude calls joth a "good vote" but prefers to stick to the dying Jimmmmm wagon. T-1.5 hours.

And from there we go into EoD territory explored by Jimmmmm. It strikes my as extremely odd how many people were hesitant about the joth wagon despite barely anyone actually townreading him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 07:08:49 am
"MiX is also very ambivalent about joth, which seems in contrast to his earlier reaction to my vote. T-5.5 hours"

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 07:10:20 am
"MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours."

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 07:28:19 am
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

Cool. We’re sympatico. I’ve been thinking a lot about our inability to exile Joth (or EFHW, but there was less traction there) and what could have made it so hard. Scumminess has been my answer.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 07:49:24 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, there’d have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? I’ll need to go grad all the VCs when I’m on a computer, but I’m curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. I’ll do that later today!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:00:06 am
"MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours."

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.

EBWOP
This ignores that you seemed about ready to vote at T-21 hours, but delayed for 16 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 08:08:18 am
Meh.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 08:11:14 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:14:59 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, there’d have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? I’ll need to go grad all the VCs when I’m on a computer, but I’m curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. I’ll do that later today!
Earlier joth wagon was really quite early.

joth (4): iguana, Jimmmmm, MiX, faust

Early Jimmmmm wagon:

Jimmmmm (5): faust, MiX, mathdude, EFHW, joth

So compared to the end-of-day wagons, the people on Jimmmmm just stayed there, other than me and MiX who went back to joth.

I suppose iguana and Jimmmmm's later unwillingness to switch to joth is somewhat suspect. Looking back I especially found these back-to-back posts curious:
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Fine, vote: joth
The former is the last post iguana makes. Assembling a vote count does not seem like the action of a player who's about to disappear. iguana says this:
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.
Now I know that is probably not a precise measurement, but EFHW's vote was more than 10 minutes before deadline.
iguana: Can you confirm of deny that you saw EFHW's vote before D1 ended?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 08:16:24 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:19:02 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:22:22 am
Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, there’d have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

Ha, I knew you'd comment on it! :)

As far as I can see, the only time either of them got to 5 votes was when EFHW put them there about 15 and 5 minutes before deadline. It's not like a stalemate 6-6 where everyone refused to budge. Only 9 people were on the two main wagons at Day's end, which means in order to get an exile, all but 2 of them would have to end up together.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:27:02 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 08:27:46 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.

But it's not beneficial for other scum teams to kill them to push us, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:34:38 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.

But it's not beneficial for other scum teams to kill them to push us, right?
Why not? What I wrote above provides a reason for why scum!us would kill LaLight, and thus if LaLight dies we can be pushed with that reasoning.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:36:53 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:44:42 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:46:42 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Is anyone assuming this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 21, 2021, 08:50:11 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

They would have assumed that town would make sure an exile went through. Jimmmmm was the only one with an inconvenient time zone, I think. I'm not saying I think this is what happened. I'm saying it is just as likely as your theory.

Loath though I am to admit it, I am agreeing with Jimmmmm here. Your conclusion that one of them has to be scum is flimsy at best, and then you say there are only two choices, math and joth.

The no exile is also complicated by the fact that MiX says he was policy not-voting math because of all the early exiles math has had.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:55:31 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Is anyone assuming this?

Hopefully not any more.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 09:00:04 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.

Which is exactly what makes math and me town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 09:02:23 am
Well, Town also wants to make sure the other guy is exiled.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 09:06:31 am
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.
A wise man would call this
Thinly veiled OMGUS.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 21, 2021, 09:06:44 am
I had the same issue as Didds - Didn't realize I had 50 more posts to read, and no PPE. I still agree with my post, but it seems to ignore subsequent comments because I hadn't read them yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 10:39:32 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, there’d have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? I’ll need to go grad all the VCs when I’m on a computer, but I’m curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. I’ll do that later today!
Earlier joth wagon was really quite early.

joth (4): iguana, Jimmmmm, MiX, faust

Early Jimmmmm wagon:

Jimmmmm (5): faust, MiX, mathdude, EFHW, joth

So compared to the end-of-day wagons, the people on Jimmmmm just stayed there, other than me and MiX who went back to joth.

Thanks for doing this for me, faust. That is a bit different than I remembered (I didn't recall that it was really early) but I can see wht I had the sense that Joth was scummy most of the day in that I think that wagon you listed above is all town.

I suppose iguana and Jimmmmm's later unwillingness to switch to joth is somewhat suspect. Looking back I especially found these back-to-back posts curious:
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Fine, vote: joth
The former is the last post iguana makes. Assembling a vote count does not seem like the action of a player who's about to disappear. iguana says this:
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.
Now I know that is probably not a precise measurement, but EFHW's vote was more than 10 minutes before deadline.
iguana: Can you confirm of deny that you saw EFHW's vote before D1 ended?

EFHWs Joth vote was like 15 minutes before deadlines, so I am not super suspicious of someone estimating that as ten minutes. But its a fair point.
Title: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 21, 2021, 10:46:30 am
Orange spoke up, "I saw Blue and Black in electrical, and there is a vent connecting those two rooms, so if one left without the other maybe the second one to leave vented up and killed!"

Vote Count 2.1

mathdude (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
MiX (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (1): mathdude
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 10:56:05 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 10:59:40 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 11:59:08 am
faust's case makes a ton of sense, but it's faust and he literally always convinces me, even when he's scum.

Joth's case is not super convincing. It's basically, let's sheep Lalight. But I townread Joth for more of the day yesterday, and I still am not seeing it now.

This is all making me even more frustrated that I didn't manage to get my vote to Joth yesterday. If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile. 

I am very much not sorted right now and suspicious of everyone who came in and voted right away before any discussion.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 11:59:46 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:01:02 pm
faust's case makes a ton of sense, but it's faust and he literally always convinces me, even when he's scum.

Joth's case is not super convincing. It's basically, let's sheep Lalight. But I townread Joth for more of the day yesterday, and I still am not seeing it now.

This is all making me even more frustrated that I didn't manage to get my vote to Joth yesterday. If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile. 

I am very much not sorted right now and suspicious of everyone who came in and voted right away before any discussion.

more=most

To be clear the only time I was starting to consider a possible scum joth was the very end of the day after WCD voted.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:02:18 pm
Well, Town also wants to make sure the other guy is exiled.

Yes, I'm annoyed with both of them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:05:02 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:06:21 pm
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?

I don't understand this post. Can you explain. What were you calling a waste of time?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:09:38 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 01:12:21 pm
If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile.

On the other hand, I'm alive right now which is nice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:00:46 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.

We need Space back!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:03:48 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??

Night time is 2 days, I think it's reasonable to get a read like "I think he's scummy".

Yes I care about what people say, which is why I haven't explained why I scumread him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:08:34 pm
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?

I don't understand this post. Can you explain. What were you calling a waste of time?

Jimmmmm's...posts D2. Like, all of them. The way he was arguing about the wagon analysis felt like he was shooting down any meaningful discussion.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:09:25 pm
Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 02:20:10 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:27:53 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Lol Didds. I don't even know what you're trying to do here.

I've mentioned you're town right? Didds' town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 02:36:02 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

They would have assumed that town would make sure an exile went through. Jimmmmm was the only one with an inconvenient time zone, I think. I'm not saying I think this is what happened. I'm saying it is just as likely as your theory.

Loath though I am to admit it, I am agreeing with Jimmmmm here. Your conclusion that one of them has to be scum is flimsy at best, and then you say there are only two choices, math and joth.

The no exile is also complicated by the fact that MiX says he was policy not-voting math because of all the early exiles math has had.

I am absolutely not arguing with you on "flimsy". It is just the best I have to go with.
LL did not really have any like relevant interaction day 1 from what I see, so trying to potentially partner search or something just keeps bringing me back to a base of who I think is likely skum. And because Day 1 is all I have to go on, I think it is one of Joth or Math.
Like I am not saying that there is not anyone else that I would not vote for, I just think by comparison that Math/Joth is the best and/or most informative pool.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 02:43:12 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?

1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.
2. My skummy read on you, which I did make sure to put "moderately" in front of, is also based on more gut than anything else.
3. I don't get your IIRC comment. You were voting Math. I thought you were kinda acting skummy. That deterred me from voting Math.

If it helps, the town reads on MiX and WCD weighed far heavier into my decision then my skum reads in the other direction.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 02:57:29 pm
Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.

It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:09:14 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

As someone whose never had to actually read MiX before, any advice? Because I'm having a hard time
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:19:59 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??

Night time is 2 days, I think it's reasonable to get a read like "I think he's scummy".

Yes I care about what people say, which is why I haven't explained why I scumread him.

I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 03:21:10 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:26:19 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?

1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.
2. My skummy read on you, which I did make sure to put "moderately" in front of, is also based on more gut than anything else.
3. I don't get your IIRC comment. You were voting Math. I thought you were kinda acting skummy. That deterred me from voting Math.

If it helps, the town reads on MiX and WCD weighed far heavier into my decision then my skum reads in the other direction.

The point is, at one point you said Math was your second top scumread after EFHW. At that point, the Math wagon was pretty much the same then as it was later on when you came in and voted your too-sKummy-to-b-sKum read instead. The only difference on the Math wagon was that Jim joined it, who you are saying was your town read on the Math wagon. Did you not take who was voting Math into consideration when you initially read Math as sKum?

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:27:28 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 03:28:42 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.

What have we learned about thinking each other's wrong?

That's right. Everyone is wrong. So what does that matter?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:31:23 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.

What have we learned about thinking each other's wrong?

That's right. Everyone is wrong. So what does that matter?

Well, exactly one of us is wrong about Math. More later.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 21, 2021, 04:09:37 pm
Sorry, falling behind. Will catch up tomorrow, been a couple crazy days
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:41:17 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Lol Didds. I don't even know what you're trying to do here.

I've mentioned you're town right? Didds' town.

Well, he said he followed me to Joth. I feel like I’m vibing with iguana…. So he should get right on this. You’re being way to restrained to be scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:42:19 pm
If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile.

On the other hand, I'm alive right now which is nice.

We do so enjoy you
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:52:09 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

As someone whose never had to actually read MiX before, any advice? Because I'm having a hard time

So, my impression is that town MiX is very analytical and will push the game forward. He’ll do things to draw out players would are chilling on the side. He’s pretty much the a one man anti-stall. That is what I’m attributing the early vote to. Plus, I think it’s very likely that he did arrive at a conclusion during N1 because he is a re-reader. I think if he read the move as a way to jump start the day, he was successful.

Scum mix flies around a lot and votes erratically. Sometimes he’ll get aggro and tussle with someone else without any real point other than clouding the thread. With only a couple of exceptions, I’ve been able to tell when he’s been “off”.

A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations “x is town!” And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

In the game I find him calm and methodical. For me, that is town mix.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:53:33 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that he’s not pushing for an exile. He’s voting for someone. I don’t think those are the same thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 05:54:53 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations “x is town!” And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that he’s not pushing for an exile. He’s voting for someone. I don’t think those are the same thing.

Well...hmm...I'm okay with quickexiling math. Last time that happened I shot the hammering scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 06:08:22 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations “x is town!” And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

Yeah, deep space nine. I do t think I came around on you until after you said you felt bad for vengekilling me in whatever game that was!


I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that he’s not pushing for an exile. He’s voting for someone. I don’t think those are the same thing.

Well...hmm...I'm okay with quickexiling math. Last time that happened I shot the hammering scum.
[/quote]
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 06:37:54 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations “x is town!” And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

Yeah, deep space nine. I do t think I came around on you until after you said you felt bad for vengekilling me in whatever game that was!

Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.


I was thinking of rereading stuff, but I'm liking the thread right now, gonna let it marinate for a bit while e and a bunch of other people settle in.

Hmm, I really should've voted math yesterday, huh, there's not much to do today. Oh well, hindsight says it didn't matter anyway  8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 06:42:58 pm
I love the imagery of letting a game marinate
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 07:00:05 pm
*snip*

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.

What? That is literally exactly the language I when first asked about all this.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:13:37 pm
*snip*

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.

What? That is literally exactly the language I when first asked about all this.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs

Okay, you are right, I'm sorry. I was conflating something you said yesterday with something you said today. I was thinking EoD1 you called the Math wagon scummy but I looked back and saw you didn't
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:14:30 pm
Vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:15:13 pm
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:23:59 pm
Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.

What did I do??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 21, 2021, 08:27:24 pm
Still need to catch up. We’ll probably do it tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 09:57:35 pm
Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.

What did I do??

MiX has an encyclopedic memory. This is almost two years ago (when he vengekilled me instead of scum!you). Prepare to suffer his wrath…one day…

I don't have words for this game, so I'm gonna choose to say "screw Jimmmmm for not being active D1 enough for me to vig him" and...and yeah.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 10:11:40 pm
Apparently not quite encyclopedic. In DS9 (Redux) I was lurky Town and died Night 1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 21, 2021, 10:30:23 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 10:54:14 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.

You should see my actual spreadsheet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 11:00:25 pm
Jimmmmm's...posts D2. Like, all of them. The way he was arguing about the wagon analysis felt like he was shooting down any meaningful discussion.

I feel like this is the opposite of what I was doing. Like, "Give me something meaningful about this assumption." And surely questioning a change in someone's read is always a discussion worth having.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 12:10:34 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

It doesn't have to be both! Trust me, I can be town and also be super detrimental. That is most likely the case here.

At any rate, I wasn't sheeping you, and actually I had no idea you were even voting faust.

I really honestly believe that you can't write a good case against faust. He has played in near every game I've played in since 2015, and I don't think I've ever been able to read him accurately. Mostly I find him to be towny even when he is scum. Last game I trusted that read and lost.

This game, I am not feeling the case against Jim at all. EFHW seemed scummy at first but has largely come back from that. I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town. I'm least sure about Joth, but a large part of that is just PoE from my other townreads.

So those are the major wagons that we've had, and I don't feel great about any of them. So it begs the question, if all of those people are town (possible), who is scum? Probably someone who is playing quite well. Hence, the vote on faust, who I think always plays well as scum.

You can call that grasping at straws if you want. But I have certainly put thought into it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 22, 2021, 12:25:05 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

so you tried to see who would bite. then someone bit. and then you outted your plan and bailed.
How does that make sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 12:52:06 am
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.
There isn't a lot I can do about that, is there?

I think you may have been looking for scum in the wrong places. And I guess - you are continuing to do so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 01:00:41 am
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:36:11 am
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 05:38:58 am
Apparently not quite encyclopedic. In DS9 (Redux) I was lurky Town and died Night 1.

What does that have to do with anything? That was before the venge game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 05:49:12 am
DS9 was the game Didds mentioned, but I guess you were referring to "whatever game that was". My bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 05:51:04 am
DS9 was the game Didds mentioned, but I guess you were referring to "whatever game that was". My bad.

Ok I see where the musunderstanding is.

What are your reads at this point?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 07:32:20 am
My sense of towncore currently tracks pretty strongly with level of engagement. I’m wary about that, but also would really like to know how gkrieg and e see the game.

EFHW, do you have a scum to chum list?

Jimm, sorry for confusing you. I was talking about two different games. DS9 is the one where MiX was my not so great intro to MiX and Glooble’s Spark game was there one where he vengekilled me instead of scum!you and then you later won the game. It was a lesson in scum!luker!Jimmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 07:36:25 am
What are your reads at this point?

I don't really have any strong scumreads at the moment, but I have a number of Townreads. I would exile faust, and the others I want to look at are gkrieg, iguana and e. I did have Swowl as a slight Townread, but I still don't know what to make of his reversal on joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 07:45:17 am
My sense of towncore currently tracks pretty strongly with level of engagement. I’m wary about that, but also would really like to know how gkrieg and e see the game.

I feel similarly.

Quote
Jimm, sorry for confusing you. I was talking about two different games. DS9 is the one where MiX was my not so great intro to MiX and Glooble’s Spark game was there one where he vengekilled me instead of scum!you and then you later won the game. It was a lesson in scum!luker!Jimmmm

All good, I think I saw DS9 and then glossed over the rest of the sentence. If nothing else it's nice to have some evidence that I don't only lurk as Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:05:38 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Can someone look at this post and tell me with a straight face that math is town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 08:10:46 am
Why exactly?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 08:12:50 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
This is a really strange post. For some reason math is offended that iguana joined the faust wagon, to the point that he unvotes. This outrage feels like an excuse to get off the wagon. He could be protecting partner faust, or more likely trying to frame him.

vote: mathdude

PPE MiX saying the same thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:15:43 am
Why exactly?

At least answer my rhetorical question first :(

Because this has a lot of scum tells: overanalysing someone's vote, thinking their vote is really important, instantly moving his voting, and I can just feel math saying "good luck catching my scumbuddies!" to iguana there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:16:45 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
This is a really strange post. For some reason math is offended that iguana joined the faust wagon, to the point that he unvotes. This outrage feels like an excuse to get off the wagon. He could be protecting partner faust, or more likely trying to frame him.

vote: mathdude

PPE MiX saying the same thing.

Am I supposed to believe you looked at the same exact post as me at around the same time?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 08:18:17 am
Another strange thing is iguana not commenting on how bizarre the post is and simply defending himself.

PPE: MiX  you are joking, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:20:47 am
Another strange thing is iguana not commenting on how bizarre the post is and simply defending himself.

PPE: MiX  you are joking, right?

I presume the PPE was a joke then? As in, PPE the post that's after yours?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 08:22:25 am
Another strange thing is iguana not commenting on how bizarre the post is and simply defending himself.

PPE: MiX  you are joking, right?

I presume the PPE was a joke then? As in, PPE the post that's after yours?
I wasn't joking. We really did comment on the same post at the same time. It's an odd post, so that's not so surprising,  I think.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:23:04 am
Oh my god. Lol. It's my bad, for some freaking reason my post appears after yours, with a timestamp that says it was written before your post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 08:23:57 am
Oh my god. Lol. It's my bad, for some freaking reason my post appears after yours, with a timestamp that says it was written before your post.

Wait, no. I am...blind.

Another strange thing is iguana not commenting on how bizarre the post is and simply defending himself.

PPE: MiX  you are joking, right?

I presume the PPE was a joke then? As in, PPE the post that's after yours?
I wasn't joking. We really did comment on the same post at the same time. It's an odd post, so that's not so surprising,  I think.

This makes more sense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 22, 2021, 08:24:51 am
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 08:57:18 am
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 08:58:18 am
We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 09:00:28 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
This is a really strange post. For some reason math is offended that iguana joined the faust wagon, to the point that he unvotes. This outrage feels like an excuse to get off the wagon. He could be protecting partner faust, or more likely trying to frame him.

vote: mathdude

PPE MiX saying the same thing.
How does that post frame me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 22, 2021, 09:39:19 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Can someone look at this post and tell me with a straight face that math is town?

I'm sorry for my lack of participation the last day and a bit.  I don't like to use real life as an excuse - I try to still pop in and stay relevant as much as possible (it's usually easy to pull out the phone, catch up on reading, and add a though, or respond to something).  But a lot of stuff is happening right now, between current work, prospects for future work, repairs at a rental I own, and some stuff in my family that I have to attend to.  It all came together at the wrong time (all at the same time), and I'm still dealing with a bunch of it.

Last night, I wrote the quoted post, in my heading really not sure where iguana was at - I had been feeling he's a bit scummy for a while, but that post of his I quoted really set off scum-bells for me.  I started a re-read of him (on phone, in bed), then fell asleep.  I was planning to follow up that post (where I "unvoted") with a post about iguana and likely a vote for him.  That quoted post wasn't meant to be the end of my thoughts, which is why it seems incomplete.  I still haven't gotten to it, and I may not today.  But by tomorrow morning, I'm hoping to get back to a full iguana reread, and decide what I think of him.  Hopefully 2 of the 4 main issues will be mostly complete by then, and tomorrow I can start looking through job prospects (which is conveniently on the computer, not on my phone!)

If someone wants to save me a little time and summarize iguana's posts through D1 and D2, that might save me a bit of time.  But I will go through them for sure, as I feel he's one person I've basically ignored this game so far - probably the most active person I've ignored (I also have almost no thoughts on e or gk, since almost nothing they have said has stood out to me, other than their basically naked votes of me D1).

Again, sorry I left that post hanging like that.  It wasn't meant to be the of my thoughts.  (Consider after my previous post, that I posted again saying "iguana, I think you're scum because ... [these reasons]", then I vote for him).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 09:41:43 am
Hmm. Let it be known that was a townie post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 09:51:33 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
This is a really strange post. For some reason math is offended that iguana joined the faust wagon, to the point that he unvotes. This outrage feels like an excuse to get off the wagon. He could be protecting partner faust, or more likely trying to frame him.

vote: mathdude

PPE MiX saying the same thing.
How does that post frame me?
Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 09:57:14 am
Again, sorry I left that post hanging like that.  It wasn't meant to be the of my thoughts.  (Consider after my previous post, that I posted again saying "iguana, I think you're scum because ... [these reasons]", then I vote for him).

It wasn't incompleteness that caught my attention. It was the vehemency of your apparent outrage and your abandoning a presumed scumread on faust just because iguana joined the wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 10:00:43 am
Hmm. Let it be known that was a townie post.

Except that he didn't address the odd reaction to iguana, and focused on completeness instead, which no one had mentioned.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 10:08:03 am
I might be getting hung up on math the way a lot of people got hung up on MiX. His posts with content tend, to me, to feel either aggressive or fake or both. If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think. As it is, I am assuming newbie!scum play.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 10:19:23 am
I don’t know, EFHW. I was scum with math in the dwarf bastard game, and he was really calculating in his posts. They weren’t the kind of contemplative train-of-thoughts posts we’re seeing here. So newbie!scum!math was deliberate with his words.

I’m not seeing that so far in this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 10:24:44 am
I don’t know, EFHW. I was scum with math in the dwarf bastard game, and he was really calculating in his posts. They weren’t the kind of contemplative train-of-thoughts posts we’re seeing here. So newbie!scum!math was deliberate with his words.

I’m not seeing that so far in this game.

I'll look back at that game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 22, 2021, 10:50:04 am
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 11:10:57 am
Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.
Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 22, 2021, 11:14:05 am
Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.
Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?
My thought was that given how close he came D1 to being exiled, he might be trying to make the most of it, assuming he would be the exile today. Could be far-fetched. How do you explain the post?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 12:08:41 pm
@EFHW, I was seeing a lot of posts like that last game too, when Math was town.

One thing I've noticed about Math is that he sort of describes things in black and white. In a way, it makes sense for a game like mafia because either you're scum or you're town. But he doesn't often seem to leave room for the uncertainty of things like "you might be town" or "you might be right, but you might be wrong." But the way he said I'm either super helpful or lying scum, it's like he had this gut reaction and he didn't even consider the in between.

And I think I was seeing that from Math and having a hard time not scum reading it in Oz as well.

I'll be honest. I'm still having trouble not reading every third thing Math says as scum. But I think there are enough reasons to consider him town right now that he shouldn't be the exile today. IMO we need to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 12:13:09 pm
Two scenarios. One (partner) where he was bussing you for distance but wanted to get off before the wagon kept growing larger. Two (framing) where he wanted it to look like that. Because he seemed to want to get off that wagon in a hurry.
Well, I'm town, so I'm ignoring the first scenario. What you are saying is... scum!mathdude is actively trying to look like scum in order to implicate me?
My thought was that given how close he came D1 to being exiled, he might be trying to make the most of it, assuming he would be the exile today. Could be far-fetched. How do you explain the post?
Dunno, he got paranoid when a scumread of his joined his vote with flimsy reasoning? It happens to me all the time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 12:17:30 pm
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 12:19:11 pm
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.
That would be preferable. Though it would be best if you went for joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 12:25:38 pm
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

We are waiting with bated breath!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 12:35:49 pm
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

Well, I could also go for gkrieg. I believe I said that.
That would be preferable. Though it would be best if you went for joth.

All game long, joth has been demonstrating his towniness absent any argument for his scumminess. How could you possibly be voting him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 12:44:42 pm
iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 01:22:33 pm
iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 01:45:51 pm
Okay, fair point on D2 busy. I am missing the town!joth pushing the game forward bit. Instead he's doing that scummy thing of "wait for it..." and we wait.

I know I am especially suspicious of him because I am townreading so many people and he is on the edge of that (out past the edge are 2.7 and gkrieg). So, while I am not voting for him yet, I think that is probably where I end up. If he's not scum, then at least his flip is informative.  (So freaking smart for scum to off someone whose flip gave us no information at all. Grrrrr.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 02:05:11 pm
iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 02:09:03 pm
iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?

Blah, no! Remember? I asked you to summarize that EoD1 and you said it was irrelevant!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 02:15:59 pm
iguana, what is it that you are finding towny about Joth?

I keep getting stuck on, he's voting his reads and pushing the game forward, and I looked at two of his scum games and did not see him do that at all. Like, he played super weak as scum. It wasn't obvious scum. It was just... I'm going to try to fade into the background scum. Like maybe D1 Oz scum Dylan was doing.

Now maybe that argument applies more to D1 than to D2 so far... but given that he says he's busy and a big case is coming... I'd like to hear it.

Did you end up reading the scum game where he actually won?

Blah, no! Remember? I asked you to summarize that EoD1 and you said it was irrelevant!

That's not how I remember that conversation going. I just reread it and I still wouldn't know that you wanted me to summarize that game.

Just read it yourself. I died before I started looking at joth that game so I don't actually know how joth posted then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 02:44:26 pm
That's fine. I didn't have time to do it EoD1 which is why I asked for a summary then. I'll have time before EoD2 so I'm happy to do it myself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 02:46:10 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:05:57 pm
going to iso Joth and faust, will post thoughts then go from there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:17:29 pm
going to iso Joth and faust, will post thoughts then go from there.

I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

Its going to be a good one, lets not exile Joth D2.

That being said, I feel as thought Joth is playing a very open unafraid game that I associate with town. Basically, you know who you are, you don't know who anyone else is, and you just go for it. His D1 reads evolved in a very (in my opinion) natural way as opposed to scum trying to force a read. Opening D2 talking about reading LaLight's posts and deciding to vote MiX could be WIFOM coming from scum who did that analysis at night, but it felt very town just rereading the game to me.

Really, nothing from Joth sticks out as scummy.  I disagree with him at points, but I don't see his positions coming from scummy motives.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:20:17 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:23:47 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Which does not make any sense when you think about it.

I think I assumed that you thought I linked the spark game because joth was also scum and also won there, but from what I remember that fact was only brought to me today, so I am simply somewhat confused as to how this whole thing came to be.

It's clear that this back-and-forth we had EoD1 was riddled with misunderstandings. We should just ignore it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:38:39 pm
Reading faust was most enjoyable. He was fun, charming, and full of wonderful anecdotes that inspire the rest of us to play the game of mafia better.

I also think there is a decent chance that he is scum.

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

I could quote more, but he has been quite the prolific poster, so I will settle for this one example. I am going to go back and reevaluate mathdude, lets see where that takes me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 03:40:42 pm
Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.
If you can make a better case for yourself being town at that stage of the game then I'm eager to hear it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 03:43:33 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Ok, so that's my bad. Sparknotes is a really common tool that American public school kids use in literature classes. Basically, it summarizes the main points and themes and stuff of a book so that the kids don't have to actually read the book and can still pass a test about it.

So, when I said I was looking for the sparknotes version, I meant I was looking for a quick summary of why Joth looked scummy in the game you referenced because I didn't have time to read it and form my own opinion.

None of this is really relevant anymore but that's where our misunderstanding came from.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:45:18 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Ok, so that's my bad. Sparknotes is a really common tool that American public school kids use in literature classes. Basically, it summarizes the main points and themes and stuff of a book so that the kids don't have to actually read the book and can still pass a test about it.

So, when I said I was looking for the sparknotes version, I meant I was looking for a quick summary of why Joth looked scummy in the game you referenced because I didn't have time to read it and form my own opinion.

None of this is really relevant anymore but that's where our misunderstanding came from.

Oh, then I did answer your question properly the first time!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 03:47:04 pm
Lol : (

I think what you meant then and meant now is that you don't actually have any conclusions about Joth's scum meta from the game you linked, but what you wanted was for me to read it and form MY conclusions and tell you about them.

I can only assume you are doing this out of some machiavellian ploy to divine my alignment. Nevertheless, I will do what you want in due time when I get a chance to sit down and look.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:49:01 pm
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

I realize I'm after those 10 minutes, and I'm guessing you voted me solely for self-preservation since I had the most votes. But you really should have looked at one of the people others have actually expressed a willingness to vote for. Someone whose some will actually give us reads on other people once we see a flip.

I honestly don't get the votes on me. There's nothing to defend against.

e voted me early, hasn't moved, hasn't participated much.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).

gkrieg had a naked vote, I believe as well. And he hasn't said much else... regarding me or others. Just let the vote stick.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.

I like this post.  Just honest run-through on the wagon.  2 lurker votes, good vote from iguana, self-preservation from Jimmmmm.  Feels like frustrated town (maybe frustrated isn't the right word, but something along those lines). My reread leaves me much townier on math.

vote: faust

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up on faust? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:50:34 pm
Lol : (

I think what you meant then and meant now is that you don't actually have any conclusions about Joth's scum meta from the game you linked, but what you wanted was for me to read it and form MY conclusions and tell you about them.

I can only assume you are doing this out of some machiavellian ploy to divine my alignment. Nevertheless, I will do what you want in due time when I get a chance to sit down and look.

It's because I never actually read that game to read joth this game. In fact, I barely even read that game overall, and I played in it!

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up on faust? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

What do you mean opened up?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:50:42 pm
MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up [D2] on faustmathdude? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

sorry, I was thinking a name and typed another one
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:51:45 pm
MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up [D2] on faustmathdude? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

sorry, I was thinking a name and typed another one

I think he's scummy, and someone that I felt like people voted without saying much D1, so he seemed like the best person to solve. Also someone I'm okay with "oops you've been the wagon for the entirety of D2, guess you die" for him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 03:54:35 pm
also, interesting note:

faust + MiX have 265 posts / 882 total posts (including pre-game, too lazy to remove).  30% of all posts are from those two individuals. Just factoids to consider.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 22, 2021, 03:57:17 pm
I'm sorry but the case for faust is not forthcoming because I have decided that faust is probably town for reasons. I will continue re-reading and come at you guys with a great, wonderful, game-changing case on someone else TBD.

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:58:27 pm
I'm sorry but the case for faust is not forthcoming because I have decided that faust is probably town for reasons. I will continue re-reading and come at you guys with a great, wonderful, game-changing case on someone else TBD.

Unvote

I'm so happy I decided to vote math instead of you. It's like I'm improving!

Welcome to the town, joth!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 22, 2021, 04:03:18 pm
"Blue and I left electrical together. We were together the whole round, so it couldn't have been Blue," replied Black. Blue agreed, "I don't know who did it, but it wasn't Black. Who else was on the left side of the map?"  Nobody answered...

Vote Count 2.2

mathdude (2): MiX, EFHW
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (2): , iguanaiguana, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, mathdude, jotheonah

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 04:06:26 pm
I like MiX's game.  I did read MiX very much in light of the fact that while both faust and MiX could be town, I seriously doubt they are both scum.

There are playstyle differences that are obvious, but nothing about MiX's posts felt off to me. Not afraid to prod the game along, actively working for more involvement toward the end of D1, everything felt very town to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 04:07:00 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

I call it cliff notes!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 04:23:34 pm
I am glad to see e showing up. I also think Joth's lack of a case on faust is interesting. It makes him feel more town for me, but I am not sure exactly why.

More concerning is this dude:

Still need to catch up. We’ll probably do it tomorrow.

This is the entirety of his D2 so far. He tends to show up and respond in clumps so maybe that is coming, but the sheer length of lurk is impressive.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 04:23:54 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 04:30:32 pm
so, read joth, faust, math, MiX, LL, and iguana.  From that group I would say:

more scummy: faust, iguana
more towny: joth, math, MiX

I am suspicious of my fellow lurkers, especially because of the no exile on D1, but I like my vote where it is at for now.  Remind me to read EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg later. I don't need to read Jimmmmm, I am confident in my D1 read that he is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 22, 2021, 04:52:50 pm
Hmm. Let it be known that was a townie post.

Except that he didn't address the odd reaction to iguana, and focused on completeness instead, which no one had mentioned.

Just skimming to keep up. I'll read in more detail tomorrow morning. And I will reread and post my thoughts on iguana tomorrow too (when I'm sitting at the computer). And my incomplete post is actually related to my odd reaction to iguana, as will become clear at that time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 05:05:37 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana

I did explain my vote more when I responded to math who also questioned my vote, so look for that post.

No I have not reread Faust or anyone since start of D2 yet. So right now I am working on memory of things that occured and what I reread during N1. I do intend to look back at Faust and others, but I really honestly believe that the best way to catch Faust is PoE and that is based on the historical fact that I have failed to read him correctly again and again across many years of playing with him.... All the way to my very first game in 2015.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 06:30:56 pm
I've read like nothing today.

I'll write here that I'll reread math tomorrow or friday. I might not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 08:29:08 pm
ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

You ISO by reading a player's posting history? I ISO by ctrl Fing something unique in their profile or signature.

Found this while ISOing you looking for that Joth game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 22, 2021, 08:48:00 pm
Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 08:51:35 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

So, I was reading this game, and I was like, holy crap, Joth is playing so good here. I knew he was scum, did not know his partners (except McMc, who flipped D1), did not know his role. Then... this:

I found the traitor role to be very freeing. My reads were fake, but my interactions were genuine, which made the game like 50% easier, if that makes sense.

See, I think I get Joth. He has a really hard time with scum because he thrives on uncertainty. Knowing his partners takes the uncertainty out of the game and replaces it with duplicity, and I think he has a really hard time with that.

As a result, in the one example of a mafia game where he really played his heart out and fooled people, he was a traitor. The uncertainty was very much alive because he didn't know his partners.

So I guess if I am reading Joth correctly here, then that's because we are cut from the same cloth in that way. Both of us really struggle with being mafia. So as someone else who tends to lurk as scum and overplay as town, I guess I am seeing similar things from Joth's record and his current game. So he's actually one of the people I'm more confident in. The fact that he was traitor in that game really seals it.

I think Joth is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 09:37:41 pm
ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

You ISO by reading a player's posting history? I ISO by ctrl Fing something unique in their profile or signature.

Found this while ISOing you looking for that Joth game.

That’s how I do it, too, but the player history is good when you’re on a mobile device
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 22, 2021, 09:38:09 pm
I’m not sure scum iguana defends scum Joth this hard
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 10:33:37 pm

I like this post.  Just honest run-through on the wagon.  2 lurker votes, good vote from iguana, self-preservation from Jimmmmm.  Feels like frustrated town (maybe frustrated isn't the right word, but something along those lines). My reread leaves me much townier on math.

35 minutes after this post you said you were happy with your math vote. What are you seeing now that you didn't see then?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 11:35:44 pm

I like this post.  Just honest run-through on the wagon.  2 lurker votes, good vote from iguana, self-preservation from Jimmmmm.  Feels like frustrated town (maybe frustrated isn't the right word, but something along those lines). My reread leaves me much townier on math.

35 minutes after this post you said you were happy with your math vote. What are you seeing now that you didn't see then?

I was looking at wagons then and doing math vs jimmmm

I also hadn't read the thread very well. I would still probably vote math before I vote jimmmm, but now prefer to vote somewhere else entirely
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 22, 2021, 11:36:10 pm
Or math vs joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 12:54:52 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana
I feel like iguana has done me a great service with this vote. It's like a repellant for other votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 12:58:09 am
Doubly good becuase now this is no longer OMGUS:

Vote: 2.71828.....
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 12:58:38 am
Just wait until I take my crack and do you like I did Galzria  8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 01:28:22 am
Just wait until I take my crack and do you like I did Galzria  8)
In my experience, such grandiose announcements are followed by unvotes, so I'm not too worried.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:30:15 am
iguana: Can you confirm of deny that you saw EFHW's vote before D1 ended?

Looking at Faust again. I realize I missed this question from him when he asked it.

Yes. I did see EFHW's vote, but it wasn't immediately clear that switching to Joth was the way to go and at that point I still preferred Math. My intention was to switch if necessary 5m to deadline and I failed to be there at that time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 23, 2021, 01:51:14 am
Doubly good becuase now this is no longer OMGUS:

Vote: 2.71828.....

Triply good since now you can paint me as even scummier since my vote will now be OMGUS.

Vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 23, 2021, 01:52:21 am
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:53:48 am
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 01:55:00 am
Iguana:

"1. When the Traitor PM went out, that player was informed who the Mafia was."

Your argument doesn't hold water.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:56:12 am
Iguana:

"1. When the Traitor PM went out, that player was informed who the Mafia was."

Your argument doesn't hold water.

Blah, so why did he say that at the end?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 02:01:59 am
Iguana:

"1. When the Traitor PM went out, that player was informed who the Mafia was."

Your argument doesn't hold water.

Blah, so why did he say that at the end?

Because scum didn't know him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2021, 02:18:22 am
I would like to hear more from gkrieg about EFHW (and in general of course).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 02:29:54 am
Doubly good becuase now this is no longer OMGUS:

Vote: 2.71828.....

Triply good since now you can paint me as even scummier since my vote will now be OMGUS.

Vote: faust
Oh my god everyone, look at this OMGUS vote and how scummy it is!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 02:55:28 am
Doubly good becuase now this is no longer OMGUS:

Vote: 2.71828.....

Triply good since now you can paint me as even scummier since my vote will now be OMGUS.

Vote: faust
Oh my god everyone, look at this OMGUS vote and how scummy it is!

Oh my! Most scummy!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 04:05:57 am
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 23, 2021, 08:34:34 am
I will join you fausty!

Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 09:49:42 am
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

So, I was reading this game, and I was like, holy crap, Joth is playing so good here. I knew he was scum, did not know his partners (except McMc, who flipped D1), did not know his role. Then... this:

I found the traitor role to be very freeing. My reads were fake, but my interactions were genuine, which made the game like 50% easier, if that makes sense.

See, I think I get Joth. He has a really hard time with scum because he thrives on uncertainty. Knowing his partners takes the uncertainty out of the game and replaces it with duplicity, and I think he has a really hard time with that.

As a result, in the one example of a mafia game where he really played his heart out and fooled people, he was a traitor. The uncertainty was very much alive because he didn't know his partners.

So I guess if I am reading Joth correctly here, then that's because we are cut from the same cloth in that way. Both of us really struggle with being mafia. So as someone else who tends to lurk as scum and overplay as town, I guess I am seeing similar things from Joth's record and his current game. So he's actually one of the people I'm more confident in. The fact that he was traitor in that game really seals it.

I think Joth is town.

I feel very seen.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 09:50:43 am
Maybe the lesson is that it's not my interaction with partners that gives me away when I'm scum, but my partners' interactions with me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 09:51:50 am
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

So, I was reading this game, and I was like, holy crap, Joth is playing so good here. I knew he was scum, did not know his partners (except McMc, who flipped D1), did not know his role. Then... this:

I found the traitor role to be very freeing. My reads were fake, but my interactions were genuine, which made the game like 50% easier, if that makes sense.

See, I think I get Joth. He has a really hard time with scum because he thrives on uncertainty. Knowing his partners takes the uncertainty out of the game and replaces it with duplicity, and I think he has a really hard time with that.

As a result, in the one example of a mafia game where he really played his heart out and fooled people, he was a traitor. The uncertainty was very much alive because he didn't know his partners.

So I guess if I am reading Joth correctly here, then that's because we are cut from the same cloth in that way. Both of us really struggle with being mafia. So as someone else who tends to lurk as scum and overplay as town, I guess I am seeing similar things from Joth's record and his current game. So he's actually one of the people I'm more confident in. The fact that he was traitor in that game really seals it.

I think Joth is town.

I feel very seen.
You seem to agree with this even though it has been proven factually wrong. Why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 09:58:56 am
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

Do you scumread gkrieg?

Would you answer the question "why are you voting gkrieg" meaningfully if I asked it now? Do you think I would consider the answer meaningful?

Why are you voting gkrieg?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:00:55 am
You seem to agree with this even though it has been proven factually wrong. Why?

Even though it was wrong, it did capture my general feelings about the town role vs the scum role. I enjoy them both, but lying all the time is so much more work and more exhausting.

It's not so much the uncertainty I enjoy as that I find genuine interactions very freeing. And in the traitor role my interactions were genuine -- I basically played the game like I was town and tried to forget who my partners were as much as possible. And that was totally up to me because I didn't have to worry about them giving me away. In fact, I did too good a job because they tried to kill me when it would have been way better to try to kill town!

I didn't really even notice the inaccuracy until it was pointed out because the overall idea still felt right to me. But, yeah, it was actually not really right.

Idk, I'd love to sit here and talk theory all day but idk that it's a very productive street.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 10:17:40 am
Idk, I'd love to sit here and talk theory all day but idk that it's a very productive street.
Well, you are free to do with your time as you wish. It is your choice to not interact with anything in the game that doesn't directly relate to you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 10:19:50 am
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

Do you scumread gkrieg?

Would you answer the question "why are you voting gkrieg" meaningfully if I asked it now? Do you think I would consider the answer meaningful?

Why are you voting gkrieg?
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 10:22:32 am
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

Do you scumread gkrieg?

Would you answer the question "why are you voting gkrieg" meaningfully if I asked it now? Do you think I would consider the answer meaningful?

Why are you voting gkrieg?
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Ok.

Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2021, 10:31:51 am
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:32:50 am
I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:36:48 am
I'm kind of shocked that no one amongst all the veteran players voting gkrieg has brought this up yet.

This is why I was scumreading MiX and faust. As e points out, they are doing the vast majority of the posting and the laziest possible scumhunting. It feels like scum trying to lead town down a road to nowhere.

Now I know I said that I had a townread on faust but man I'm not sure now.

The case I was going to make was about MiX and faust playing a truly audacious scum game because their metas allow them to get away with it and they know it. I know that's a big swing, but tell me it doesn't pretty neatly explain the game so far!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 23, 2021, 10:37:24 am
I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

It’s not just the lurking… it’s that he’s outside of my town list. Now, I know my town list it too big, but if reduce my voting pool to those outside of it, it makes the choice easier.

So, since the tides are turning back to town!Joth, whose on the outs for you?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:40:00 am
When I was re-reading conference call mafia I came upon this quote from myself:

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

I'm always hesitant to call out the leader-y scum thing because I myself never attempt it. But I can see faust and MiX deciding to. Reread the opening of the game and tell me their banter doesn't feel a little too neat and tidy to be organic?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 23, 2021, 10:40:11 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Following up on this post of mine finally.  Sorry about the delay.  (And yes, I'm at a computer and have a lot to reply to.  This will be a wall post!)

I had sort of ignored iguana D1, since I had only played 1 other game with him (Oz), and wanted to focus more on people I had played multiple games with, in order to get a little more info about how to read him.  I was scum-reading him off-and-on last game, and I think that's just that his playstyle will get read that way to me (the same way I will, by default, think MiX, faust, and a few others not in this game are just scummy by the way they post D1 of games).  Again, I'm becoming more aware of this bias, and trying to take it into account in learning how to read people.

Back on D1...

A few RVS votes/discussion early, then
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

I don't like the excuse for not wanting to vote MiX.  Then, I get that it's D1 and we don't know much, but "saltiness" doesn't seem like a good reason to jump on a vote.

This post:
For all the discussion of us not being RVS, the weekend start we've had feels very RVSy even for a normal game.

Mathdude's comments here

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

remind me a bit of when he OMGUSed me in the last game here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20798.msg875111#msg875111)

It has that same attitude of scumreading someone for reading the game differently than you. He was town there, so for right now I'm reading it as Math is town again and would want to blend in more if he was scum.

Joth and Jimmm are my biggest unknowns this game.

I vaguely remember Jim as someone who played occasionally, didn't post much, but had a reputation for being good at finding the scums with short, decisive posts. I don't remember if I've ever read a scum Jim game though...

Joth I've seen as mod and I did some reading into his old games already, but I don't know his scum meta either.

@Joth, could you point me in the direction of a scum game you are proud of?
gets townpoints.  This is some of the most useful stuff I think he's posted, and it was very early D1.

Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.

For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
This looks like an easy way to avoid committing to doing much useful stuff D1 - something scum would want to do, as long as it looks like an exile will actually happen.

Now we get into some more of the good stuff!


Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude
Maybe it's a poor choice of words, but this case is definitely not "persuasive".  This is a good excuse to jump on a wagon (e provided a flimsy reason to vote me, why not jump on and see what happens?).  But it's not persuasive, by any means.  Scum!iguana makes it seem like there's more of a case on me than there really is.

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.
-snip-

The "Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum" is something I'll come back to later with iguana, and part of why I think he's scum.

Otherwise, in that post, he's all over the map, commenting about joth, but not really saying anything useful for us to use for or against in the future.

-snip-
(long post of his re-read on MiX)
In his re-read on MiX, he's almost fully focused on how MiX reads me, and switches his read on me, then ignores commenting on a read on me.  This fixation on how things relate to me is not fully founded at this point (I had not yet become a real viable wagon until almost the end of D1... even though I had a few votes on me earlier, there wasn't much to them).

Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

I believe I replied to this thought back on D1, but this was late enough in the day, a policy exile for not showing up would probably have been worse than no-exile (unless of course Swowl ended up flipping scum).  We actually had relevant thoughts/reads from many people on a few different wagons, so switching to a lurker with almost no info on people's reads would be something scum would want.

-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

This was an OMGUS reply.  And hedging on "especially scummy if Jim is town" already sounds scummy, but adding "which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet" sounds more like "I know he's town, but I can't say that here".

He then digs down and repeats these thoughts in his next post, arguing for why he's tunneling so much on me, because it's almost all that e and gkrieg had done (in their few contributions to the game, even though there were no real reasons given)... and since he was reading them, and MiX, therefore of course it would all connect back to me.

Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust
Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust.

I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.

That's a lot of people he doesn't like the look of and doesn't really trust.  It's one thing to not be townreading a lot of people D1.  But this looks like throwing shade on a lot of people, and seeing what will stick.


On to D2...

At the start, he is focused a lot on why people did or did not vote me.  This fixation actually makes sense here, since I was one of the potentially viable wagons EoD1.

Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.

It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
This quote and his previous post look like just trying to start something, where nothing needed to be started.  Scum trying to build up trouble start of D2 maybe?

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

These posts just came out of nowhere, in my opinion.  He had been so focused EoD1 with who was voting for whom, and not voting with people he thought was scummy.  He had been scum-reading me a fair amount now.  And I believe at this point, I was the only one voting faust, and he jumps on to maybe start a wagon.  This is inconsistent with his earlier play this game.

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

It doesn't have to be both! Trust me, I can be town and also be super detrimental. That is most likely the case here.

At any rate, I wasn't sheeping you, and actually I had no idea you were even voting faust.

I really honestly believe that you can't write a good case against faust. He has played in near every game I've played in since 2015, and I don't think I've ever been able to read him accurately. Mostly I find him to be towny even when he is scum. Last game I trusted that read and lost.

This game, I am not feeling the case against Jim at all. EFHW seemed scummy at first but has largely come back from that. I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town. I'm least sure about Joth, but a large part of that is just PoE from my other townreads.

So those are the major wagons that we've had, and I don't feel great about any of them. So it begs the question, if all of those people are town (possible), who is scum? Probably someone who is playing quite well. Hence, the vote on faust, who I think always plays well as scum.

You can call that grasping at straws if you want. But I have certainly put thought into it.

Fair enough to say he wasn't sheeping me.  Maybe I got over-reactive at that point.  Like I said earlier, I was planning to follow up that post with a re-read on you and likely a vote on you (which is what this is now!)  And part of the reason I'm thinking that is you are all-of-a-sudden now changing your mind on me.  "I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town".  Done with the argument, and just trying to deflect the attention, so I stop focusing on you?  If you town-read me now, maybe I'll ignore you?

Vote: iguana

When I had posted 2 days ago about iguana sheeping me, I was definitely under the mindset that he had been building up in scumminess throughout the game, and I'd have a big case.  But now that I've gone through all his posts, even with a lean on thinking he's scum, they aren't quite as bad as my initial gut read seemed to think they are (and I fully expect pushback on a few fo my comments).  However, I still don't like a bunch of what he said, and will leave my vote there for now.  I'll see how he responds.

PPE: 13!! (I'll go look at them now)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 10:51:10 am
I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

Why are lurkers more likely to be town than scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 10:53:37 am
When I was re-reading conference call mafia I came upon this quote from myself:

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

I'm always hesitant to call out the leader-y scum thing because I myself never attempt it. But I can see faust and MiX deciding to. Reread the opening of the game and tell me their banter doesn't feel a little too neat and tidy to be organic?

You uh. You were uh. You were scum that game. And faust was exiled as the Tracker. And ash died at night. That's enough proof of how wrong you are.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 10:58:53 am
Big math post, too big to comment in mobile, have a gut feeling that he wants to 1v1 iguana, could be townie but I don't think so.

Vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:59:19 am
I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

Why are lurkers more likely to be town than scum?

Because scum has a smaller team and therefore more responsibility for the team's goals and more incentive to participate in order to advance them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 10:59:47 am
Note to math: 13!! is a very big number.

I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

Why are lurkers more likely to be town than scum?

Because scum has a smaller team and therefore more responsibility for the team's goals and more incentive to participate in order to advance them.

Their responsability is not dying.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:59:55 am
When I was re-reading conference call mafia I came upon this quote from myself:

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

I'm always hesitant to call out the leader-y scum thing because I myself never attempt it. But I can see faust and MiX deciding to. Reread the opening of the game and tell me their banter doesn't feel a little too neat and tidy to be organic?

You uh. You were uh. You were scum that game. And faust was exiled as the Tracker. And ash died at night. That's enough proof of how wrong you are.

Maybe you and faust saw that comment and thought "hey that's not a bad idea" and filed it away.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 23, 2021, 11:00:09 am
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

I also find myself agreeing with faust's statements here.  And I add to that the fact that gkrieg camped on me all day, D1, with very flimsy reasoning (and when I responded to his one actual concern, that he thought I said "we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers", even though I responded to that, showing that's not at all what I said, and he didn't respond anymore).

He's posting just enough to feel like he's participating, but he's not really adding anything.  Just trying to stay relevant.  And it's not working.

I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

I also am not a fan of lurker exiles, because like you said, they're easy for scum to push through.  However, I have found scum tend to lurk a lot more than town, as it provides less that they can be caught saying.  As long as town is starting down the wrong roads, it's easy for scum to just let it happen, have a townie voted out, and have other townies look scummy the next day because of it.  It's only when a wagon is started on one of their partners (or themself) that they need to think about engaging... and even then, it's sometimes better for them to just lurk/bus and get town-cred for joining the wagon at the right time.

However, as I said above, I don't want gkrieg exiled because he's lurking.  I want him exiled because he's done nothing townie, he's made no effort to help through D1, especially toward EoD1.  He's around, but being scummy.

For now, I'm leaving my vote on iguana, but I'll gladly switch to gkrieg today too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 11:05:46 am
ANyway, if we WERE going to do a lurker exile (sort of) I would much prefer Swowl.

I think his opening today about "there must be scum between math and joth because we couldn't get an exile through" was absurd and scummy. It's the sort of argument scum thinks up overnight and then fires off at day start. It was especially glaring, as Jimmmmm said, because the biggest post Swowl had made in the game to date, one of a small handful of posts of substance, was about how towny I was. Then he switched to voting me. And then he started pushing my exile hard, without acknowledging his former case until Jimmmmm forced his hand.

Because he forgot about that read. Because it was fake and made up.

Honestly, go iso Swowl. It will take you 10 minutes.

It will go like this:

Prod dodge
prod dodge
apologetic prod dodge
longish reads post that he doesn't really follow up on
post about how towny I am
vote for me
I'm here at (almost) deadline but i'm not moving my vote or trying particularly hard to push an exile through
math or joth must be scum and I think it's joth
big argument with Jim about that
disappears again
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 11:05:58 am
vote: Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 23, 2021, 11:07:36 am
Big math post, too big to comment in mobile, have a gut feeling that he wants to 1v1 iguana, could be townie but I don't think so.

Vote: math

Yes it's a giant post.  I know.  I've been trying to avoid those.  But I wasn't going to write 12 posts right after each other commenting about each of the things I wanted to reply that iguana said.

I don't need a 1v1 with iguana.  I just needed to get all those thoughts out there.

Speaking of 1v1, I see faust is done with his deal with Jimmmmm D1, but is now trying to start one with e.  Discuss?
(PPE: 2)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 11:08:41 am
I like your wall post and I think it deserves consideration, but I wish it weren't a case on the towniest person in the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 11:11:49 am
When I was re-reading conference call mafia I came upon this quote from myself:

I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

I'm always hesitant to call out the leader-y scum thing because I myself never attempt it. But I can see faust and MiX deciding to. Reread the opening of the game and tell me their banter doesn't feel a little too neat and tidy to be organic?

You uh. You were uh. You were scum that game. And faust was exiled as the Tracker. And ash died at night. That's enough proof of how wrong you are.

Maybe you and faust saw that comment and thought "hey that's not a bad idea" and filed it away.
Mmmh. It's right there in my file cabinet of mafia quotes. You nailed it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 11:13:55 am
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 23, 2021, 11:16:17 am
I like your wall post and I think it deserves consideration, but I wish it weren't a case on the towniest person in the game.

I disagree that he's the towniest.  But like I said near the end of it... I went into it with a big gut scumread on iguana, then as I was getting through the posts, they weren't seeming near as scummy as I remembered.  But I'm leaving my vote there now until he responds.  I assume it will either assure me that he is scum, or it will give me a reason to move my vote.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 23, 2021, 11:18:27 am
Also, I know there has been discussion about not liking to vote for "X" because all the people I scum-read are on the wagon, or vice versa.  I do plan to look at these throughout the game soon as well, as I was getting the same sort of feelings towards EoD1, but didn't get back before D1 ended to look at them all (I worked later than expected).  Now I get to look through D1 votes, as well as some D2 votes, and have more scum-reads and more town-reads.  Hopefully I'll get to this by this evening.  Back to the family now!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 23, 2021, 11:19:35 am
Speaking of 1v1, I see faust is done with his deal with Jimmmmm D1, but is now trying to start one with e.  Discuss?
(PPE: 2)
I think you're behind. I'm not voting e anymore.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 11:20:47 am
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?

Swowl lurked through day 1, but for well-explained RL reasons, then showed up on Day 2 and did explicitly scummy things.

gkrieg has just lurked throughout and now scum is seeing an easy misexile that won't stick to them.

Also I don't really like my you-and-mix scum theory well enough to commit to it at this juncture.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 11:21:43 am
I guess I should iso gkreig in case there's something there beyond XAL, which is terrible.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 23, 2021, 11:37:20 am
I have to admit, I kind of forgot Swowl was playing….
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 11:39:16 am
I'm having trouble keeping up content-wise. I remember also thinking Swowl came in scummy. Fine with gkrieg as lurker exile. I'll work on catching up today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 11:47:47 am
Maybe the lesson is that it's not my interaction with partners that gives me away when I'm scum, but my partners' interactions with me.

Your D2 performance in the game you won was impressive. You got caught early the next game because of it. I remember thinking "this sounds just like joth in the last game." And I think I said so. So, if you are scum, I wouldn't necessarily expect you to be consistent with past metas, since you can't use the previous approach anymore. I haven't formed an opinion about you in this game yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 12:01:33 pm
I saw one scummy thing in the iso, which was that at the end of day 1 he comes on and says

"Likely won't be around at deadline, happy with my vote."

but then shows up at deadline and offers to move his vote.

So you could see that as scum thinking they wouldn't need to help but then reconsidering when it looked like an exile might not be pushed through.

But mostly, not seeing it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 12:07:07 pm
Big math post, too big to comment in mobile, have a gut feeling that he wants to 1v1 iguana, could be townie but I don't think so.

Vote: math

I disagree with just about all of his interpretations of iguana's behavior, which makes that wallpost look really scummy. I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:41:49 pm
Big math post, too big to comment in mobile, have a gut feeling that he wants to 1v1 iguana, could be townie but I don't think so.

Vote: math

You got away from the math tunnel but boy did it not last long.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:53:05 pm
Vote: gkrieg

I spent my mafia time today looking at comments that faust made on a setup I am trying to open, then came to check the thread. That was a mistake because there is a lot in here that I should respond to and now don't really have time to. I was hoping to do a read through of Swowl, gkrieg, faust, Joth, EFHW, and Math.

That is obviously not going to happen and starting tomorrow I'll be gone for two days. However, I'll be back before deadline and hopefully can do some of that work then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:54:35 pm
I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 01:55:35 pm
And gkrieg is a high caliber player, who has also done nothing but push Math and lurk. So I would say that yes the things he has done are scummy things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 02:07:21 pm
A few notes to Math (I'm not going to even try to quote that monster post):

First of all, I can kind of see where you're coming from sometimes but you're barking up the wrong tree.

1) my "saltiness" vote on EFHW was essentially RVS. I hadn't seen anything worth a vote yet, so I voted a random player who didn't have content one way or the other yet. The only reason I stayed on EFHW was because of the way she responded to my and Didds' RVS votes, which I thought was scummy. Since then, she seemed townier for quite some time and I doubted my initial scumread. Lately, pushing you I think she's being scummy again.

2) "don't like the tryhard" Not wanting to vote someone SUPER EARLY because they are pushing the game forward is scummy? What? Why?

3) You are being really goofy for townreading me D1 for townreading me, then scumreading me for scumreading you, then finally scumreading you for townreading you. Like, do you realize that you are reading my play almost 100% through the lens of how I'm interacting with you? You are not the only one playing!

4) It's not fair to scumread me for not posting a case when I was too busy to post a case.

5) Yes there was a period of time where I thought you were scum and MiX was a likely partner. I no longer think that's the case. I wanted to point it out at that point in case I was on to something, which... now I see that I was wrong. How does being wrong make me scum?

6) When I said I didn't like the look of people voting Jim, I don't remember exactly who was voting him at the time, but I believe the main person who scared me off Jim was you. And maybe MiX? I think I've already explained that. AT THE TIME I thought you and MiX may both be scum.

7) Why bother to wallpost my faust vote when you've already attacked my faust vote in isolation and I've already responded? Are you just trying to make your post as big as possible? Because that's really weird.

Okay, that's about everything I see in your post that I want to respond to.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 02:41:52 pm
I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.

I'm surprised. You yourself noted that his narrative was problematic. I always scumread any post that seems to be distorting what really happened. It can be a sign of trying to mislead town or a sign of having trouble posting as scum. I can't dismiss everything in that post as "just town!math being town!math." If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 02:50:00 pm
I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.

I'm surprised. You yourself noted that his narrative was problematic. I always scumread any post that seems to be distorting what really happened. It can be a sign of trying to mislead town or a sign of having trouble posting as scum. I can't dismiss everything in that post as "just town!math being town!math." If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

Can you show me where you see that he is distorting what really happened? Also, how many games have you played with Math before?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 02:51:25 pm
What I see is a player who is super-laser-focused on how other people read him. To the extent that a lot of his votes are OMGUS spurred. And I know enough of his meta to know that he was doing this in Oz as well, at the very least, and as town. I don't agree with the methodology but I don't see it as scum either.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2021, 02:51:39 pm
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?

Swowl lurked through day 1, but for well-explained RL reasons, then showed up on Day 2 and did explicitly scummy things.

gkrieg has just lurked throughout and now scum is seeing an easy misexile that won't stick to them.

Also I don't really like my you-and-mix scum theory well enough to commit to it at this juncture.

I obv cannot argue day 1 lurk.
But what did I do earlier this day that was skummy to you exactly?

Pretty sure all of my contribution was the whole math/Joth bit.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 02:55:01 pm
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?

Swowl lurked through day 1, but for well-explained RL reasons, then showed up on Day 2 and did explicitly scummy things.

gkrieg has just lurked throughout and now scum is seeing an easy misexile that won't stick to them.

Also I don't really like my you-and-mix scum theory well enough to commit to it at this juncture.

I obv cannot argue day 1 lurk.
But what did I do earlier this day that was skummy to you exactly?

Pretty sure all of my contribution was the whole math/Joth bit.

How about lurking D2?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 02:55:41 pm
snip

See the post above.

Your case felt like the sort of case scum would think up overnight. It is a classic scum case that lets you push an exile without really committing to a scum read. And the fact that it blatantly contradicted your day 1 post about how towny I was being (and that you didn't mention that until you were called out on it) just made it seem even more fake and made up.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 03:10:38 pm
snip

See the post above.

Your case felt like the sort of case scum would think up overnight. It is a classic scum case that lets you push an exile without really committing to a scum read. And the fact that it blatantly contradicted your day 1 post about how towny I was being (and that you didn't mention that until you were called out on it) just made it seem even more fake and made up.

I think your case has some merit, and that's why I was questioning Swowl as well at the start of the day because his position EoD1 looked absurd to me.

But ultimately he did give his reasons for why he voted for each wagon at each point and it seems like maybe you are ignoring that.

1)  He didn't call you "towny" but "too skummy to be skum," which I guess is another way of saying suspicious but probably not actually scum. So to say he went from townreading you to voting you is a bit disingenuous.

2) When he voted you instead of Math, he's explained that pretty thoroughly. Since his initial post, two of his TRs pushed you and 1 of his scumreads pushed Math. So that changed the decision making.

3) I think it must be noted that your case is OMGUS. OMGUS isn't always wrong, but there's that.

All that to say, what I find suspicious about Swowl is that he came, gave all those responses, then bailed and has gotten away with not participating much in D2 so far. That could be a sign of someone who is having trouble participating with things not directly related to them because of being scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 03:13:34 pm
snip

See the post above.

Your case felt like the sort of case scum would think up overnight. It is a classic scum case that lets you push an exile without really committing to a scum read. And the fact that it blatantly contradicted your day 1 post about how towny I was being (and that you didn't mention that until you were called out on it) just made it seem even more fake and made up.

faust, Awaclus, others that might know: is this scum!joth that saw what gets him townreads and is now mimicking things that get him townreads, or is this town!joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 03:22:29 pm
Okay, Gkrieg reread is the only one I have time for since it's going to be so short:

So his first several posts are meta-related. In a way that just reflects where we were at that stage of the game, but it's also worth noting that it's incredibly easy for scum to give that type of participation and nothing more.

so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

To me, this seems potentially scummy. Partially because I am scumreading EFHW but also because it doesn't strike me as a particularly bold post that you could form a townread off of that. It does look like gkrieg and EFHW could be partners.

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

This is basically gkrieg's only contribution to D2. Just want to say, it is hard to fake changing your reads. Especially so if you are busy and having trouble keeping up as scum. But it is incredibly easy to just post a read, give a reason, then stick with that for the entire game. And that is what gkrieg is doing here so far.

Also, while I initially was townreading gkrieg for his case on Math, I think that because Math is an easy player to pick on, he's an easy target. So I can see the scum narrative there too in terms of trying to pick a town player as scum who looks scummy in order to have a case and look town. And then you naturally end up on someone who is misexiled often.

So, to me, it's not just gkrieg lurking. It's also the content of the lurking.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 03:23:02 pm
@MiX stop asking Awaclus questions, and now I have to go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 23, 2021, 03:24:40 pm
@MiX stop asking Awaclus questions, and now I have to go.

Never!

Well I will for this game. You got me there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2021, 03:26:26 pm
So joth, you don't like lurker exiles except for when you get to choose the lurker?

Swowl lurked through day 1, but for well-explained RL reasons, then showed up on Day 2 and did explicitly scummy things.

gkrieg has just lurked throughout and now scum is seeing an easy misexile that won't stick to them.

Also I don't really like my you-and-mix scum theory well enough to commit to it at this juncture.

I obv cannot argue day 1 lurk.
But what did I do earlier this day that was skummy to you exactly?

Pretty sure all of my contribution was the whole math/Joth bit.

How about lurking D2?

I mean last 24 hours or so sure, but I don’t think I would say lurking.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2021, 03:32:35 pm
snip

See the post above.

Your case felt like the sort of case scum would think up overnight. It is a classic scum case that lets you push an exile without really committing to a scum read. And the fact that it blatantly contradicted your day 1 post about how towny I was being (and that you didn't mention that until you were called out on it) just made it seem even more fake and made up.

So I made a plan to do something skummy which contradicts literally one of the only things I posted on Day 1?
And i am committing to a skum read. It’s just on you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 03:38:58 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs

This doesn't really seem like a scum read on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 23, 2021, 03:48:47 pm
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 23, 2021, 03:52:56 pm
*BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* *BRRRRRT* Alarms rang out signalling that something had gone wrong with the oxygen tanks. The crew rushed to the control panels to hopefully fix it in time.

Vote Count 2.3

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2021, 04:31:35 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs

This doesn't really seem like a scum read on me.

I mean if you wanna pick out the one post.
Pull the one from today where I voted for you - does that feel like a skum read?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 04:40:41 pm
Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2021, 05:19:58 pm
Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.

Sorry. Mobile.
But I was literally just saying “I’m voting for you today also, that is me saying I have a skum read”
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 06:04:37 pm
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Yep, I read faust, did not find anything super scummy, and concluded it was not the right exile for today. I have some thoughts on him that I can write up later when I get one last chance to use a computer before I go VLA.

I don't really regret the vote, which I said was a PoE vote anyway. It attracted votes to me, which may be useful to look at later. And I still see no reason why Faust couldn't be scum. I'm just null on him and moving on for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 06:05:52 pm
It doesn't help that so much of his D1 is a giant fight with Jim that felt like a big bag of null from Faust. Townie from Jim though
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 06:45:59 pm
Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.

Sorry. Mobile.
But I was literally just saying “I’m voting for you today also, that is me saying I have a skum read”

It seems to me that you went from townreading me, to voting for me without a strong scumread, to strongly scumreading me and the only thing that changed was what was convenient for you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 07:34:13 pm
I think EFHW is scummy. Her pushing Math is a lot like her pushing pubby. She's picking on someone whose ideas she can see as wrong, and arguing that makes them scum. I don't know if she does that as town but I know she does that as scum.

I'm surprised. You yourself noted that his narrative was problematic. I always scumread any post that seems to be distorting what really happened. It can be a sign of trying to mislead town or a sign of having trouble posting as scum. I can't dismiss everything in that post as "just town!math being town!math." If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

Can you show me where you see that he is distorting what really happened? Also, how many games have you played with Math before?

I think I played in most of his games. I wrote up 6 separate distortions in the wall post. But then I see he backed off at the end. So I'll back off (again).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 07:37:21 pm
I can post the distortions if people want me to. I didn't want to add a wall post unnecessarily.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 08:03:20 pm
I can post the distortions if people want me to. I didn't want to add a wall post unnecessarily.

Do it!!

You can always snip his quotes so that the post is smaller.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 08:27:58 pm
Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

Basically, I have a faust complex. And it stems from the fact that I think faust is, hands down, the best player on the site. I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down. No insult to anyone else, it's just my opinion and I don't even know who else shares it. 

At the same time, true or not, I think of myself as one of the worst mafia players on the site. And it can be attested to in the fact that I often have bad reads, that my winrate has never even approached 50%, that the only game I ever got MVP I was a survivor just having to do the one thing I'm good at which is surviving to the end.

And ever since I started playing, I had issues with faust basically. Because in my very first game, I actually had really good reads, and I thought faust was scum for most of the game, and he was a mafia traitor hider. And I was a loud jailkeeper. And I tried to jailkeep him, but he was hiding, so he still got to do the factional kill. And that misled me to think he couldn't be the killer (last scum left) and I chose that it was not him and it was him and I lost for town. And I felt faust was scum but I was a newbie and couldn't really convince people enough to get him exiled and that game was really rough.

And then the next game I played, faust and I were both scum together. And as soon as I saw that I was scum, my heart sank, and when I saw that faust was my partner, this guy who had stomped me in the last game, my heart sank even further. And as a result I just could not play scum at all and I lurked really hard, played really different from my first game where I was super active town, and faust... I don't remember exactly what he ended up doing. I think he honestly ended up bussing me out of the game, but still lost due to having partnery interactions with me before the bussing, and it was just a really rough game. But my take-away from that game was, faust is amazing and I suck and I ruined the game for him.

And ever since that second game, I've sort of had a faust complex because both of those games were kind of rough.

And then in Lost mafia, I don't really remember how it went exactly, but faust and I were scum together and I ended up being the mafia goon who got volunteered to be the one to claim poisoner, so as a result I was just insta-gibbed on D3 when the first poisoning took effect. So that was another game that cemented my faust complex of feeling like: faust is really good at this, and he's really good at scum AND town, and you are just bad scum and stupid town and not worth very much because you're the sacrificial lamb this game. (side note: posting the memes was cool.)

And there was another game, I don't remember which, where faust was scum and I was town and I remember that it went all the way to Lylo and I had to choose between faust and Robz. And I remember that I was actually leaning faust, but then I saw Robz check the thread at a weird time and I got paranoid that he was checking the thread to do a quick scum!hammer, and I voted Robz and then faust and Calamitas voted Robz and I singlehandedly lost the game for town because I backed off my scumread on faust. And that was sort of a crushing game and I think one of the last ones I played.

And then in Oz mafia, I came back and I townread faust THE WHOLE GAME and then he was scum and he stomped our team and we lost. And I repeated a lot of the stupid mistakes I can remember myself making throughout my mafia tenure that I kind of told myself, I'm not coming back making those mistakes again. So I had sort of come back thinking, I'm going to get over my faust complex and other issues that I used to have when playing mafia, and then that super didn't happen, and yeah here I am.

So when I was sitting here in this game throwing my hands up in the air and voting faust becaus (at the time) I didn't have any strong scum reads, it's because I honestly was/am very jaded about trying to read faust. I just read him backwards. I've done it a bunch of times. And I'm at the point where I've given up on trying to find alignment indicative stuff from him because I feel like he plays on a level that I would like to but cannot achieve.

OKAY FINALLY -- Faust is a great guy! He's super nice outside of mafia and he even is nice and careful about what he says inside of mafia. And I recognize that my issues with him are my own issues and not his fault in any way. But, they do exist and sometimes they make me vote for him when it doesn't make sense.

All that to say, I'm currently over it. Yes, faust could be scum, but I've looked around more and have some other leads and I am OK with voting those leads at this time.

SO -- Yes, I read some of faust's posts last night, before falling asleep. No, I didn't find anything particularly informative from them! And I've just decided, I'm not going to reread the rest of faust right now, because I don't think it's the most productive thing to do right now, and after reading through gkrieg I am much happier with that vote anyway.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 08:37:48 pm
I do think 2.7 is the towniest of the less active players. His read on Joth as being town because Joth is playing "a very open unafraid game" matches my own gut read of Joth. And the cases he is making are all making sense to me. The thing he pointed out about faust here:

Reading faust was most enjoyable. He was fun, charming, and full of wonderful anecdotes that inspire the rest of us to play the game of mafia better.

I also think there is a decent chance that he is scum.

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

I could quote more, but he has been quite the prolific poster, so I will settle for this one example. I am going to go back and reevaluate mathdude, lets see where that takes me.

I thought was quite insightful, and the sort of thing that I would never notice trying to reread faust and look for any signs of scum. But I also think that point is pretty small in the totality of the game to where it's not a huge thing pushing me to think faust is actually scum here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 23, 2021, 09:00:15 pm
 I'm going VLA for the next two days starting basically now. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg877633#msg877633)

I'm probably not going to post at all. I'm celebrating my wife's birthday on a weekend trip and she's not going to be keen on me checking mafia at that time.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 23, 2021, 10:33:12 pm
I'm going VLA for the next two days starting basically now. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg877633#msg877633)

I'm probably not going to post at all. I'm celebrating my wife's birthday on a weekend trip and she's not going to be keen on me checking mafia at that time.

I know that feel bro.

Thanks for being honest about your faust complex, which is also relatable.

Is there any chance of anyone joining me on Swowl, or is it time for me to switch to a more viable wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 10:46:59 pm
Iguana, you are WAY too hard on yourself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2021, 10:59:39 pm
I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

This is a reasonable approximation of my argument against faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 10:59:46 pm
I put my comments in bold italics under the portions they refer to. I did my best to be compact without losing context.

I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.
I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.
Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
I don't like the excuse for not wanting to vote MiX.  Then, I get that it's D1 and we don't know much, but "saltiness" doesn't seem like a good reason to jump on a vote.
This was clearly an RVS vote.

Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?
Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.
For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
This looks like an easy way to avoid committing to doing much useful stuff D1 - something scum would want to do, as long as it looks like an exile will actually happen.

This is conventional mafia wisdom not an excuse to not do anything. iguana has been one of the most active players, so I don't see how he can be accused of trying not to do anything useful.

Now we get into some more of the good stuff!

Third vote is scum
Vote: math
I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.
Vote: Mathdude
Maybe it's a poor choice of words, but this case is definitely not "persuasive".  This is a good excuse to jump on a wagon (e provided a flimsy reason to vote me, why not jump on and see what happens?).  But it's not persuasive, by any means.  Scum!iguana makes it seem like there's more of a case on me than there really is.

It's possible math missed iguana's humor/sarcasm here.

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.
Sure. So I will read Joth now.
Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.
And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.
That's my general impression.
-snip-
The "Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum" is something I'll come back to later with iguana, and part of why I think he's scum.

Otherwise, in that post, he's all over the map, commenting about joth, but not really saying anything useful for us to use for or against in the future.

Here he snips out part of the post and then says there was nothing useful in it. This is what was in the snip: "Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people. Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum. This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing." Helpful content.

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.
Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

This was an OMGUS reply.
It's not OMGUS when three separate reasons are provided.

Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust. I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.

That's a lot of people he doesn't like the look of and doesn't really trust.  It's one thing to not be townreading a lot of people D1.  But this looks like throwing shade on a lot of people, and seeing what will stick.
There's no indication that he is trying to throw shade to see what sticks. And distrust is healthy in mafia!

On to D2...

Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.
It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
This quote and his previous post look like just trying to start something, where nothing needed to be started.  Scum trying to build up trouble start of D2 maybe?
How is this trying to start trouble?

Vote: faust
And I believe at this point, I was the only one voting faust, and he jumps on to maybe start a wagon. This is inconsistent with his earlier play this game.
iguana's vote on faust came 130 posts after math's. "Jumping on" has a negative connotation here, but doesn't apply.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2021, 11:02:29 pm
I don't think faust and ash are the scum team, but it's pretty clear to me that if faust and ash were the scum team they could pretty much do whatever they want and get away with it and that seems like a problem.

I feel exactly the same way right now about faust and MiX.

This is a reasonable approximation of my argument against faust.
But this isn't an argument, it's a story. Literally a "what if ..."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 23, 2021, 11:15:20 pm
The argument is that it's a problem that should at least be considered.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 24, 2021, 01:43:03 am
-snip-.

Was not expecting a whole history.

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

I actually was thinking the two of you were partners doing a little partner bussing dance.

The whole history lesson is a bit compelling to pull me off that narrative, I will stick to just faust being scum

On the other hand....
I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down.

Who decided to NK lalight is still to be determined and someone who views them as strong town is a as compelling an argument as we have.

In the end, I think either you or faust could still be scum, leaning more towards faust, less toward both of you
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 24, 2021, 01:53:48 am
so, read joth, faust, math, MiX, LL, and iguana.  From that group I would say:

more scummy: faust, iguana
more towny: joth, math, MiX

I am suspicious of my fellow lurkers, especially because of the no exile on D1, but I like my vote where it is at for now.  Remind me to read EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg later. I don't need to read Jimmmmm, I am confident in my D1 read that he is town.

And to be honest, there is some PoE confirmation bias that makes me think faust is scum. Looking at 3 scum in 10.

I think joth, jimmmm, and MiX are town, 3/7 removing them.
If iguana v faust is town v scum, then it is 1 scum (faust) in that group of 5 with two more in {EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg, math}
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 02:20:51 am
If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 03:39:23 am
Unsurprisingly, I think joth makes some good points about Swowl, but I was like, "Does scum actually do that?" That is, come out as Swowl did Day 2, without acknowledgement of his prior post about joth.

I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.

Then I realised, this is exactly what Swowl was pushing. And increasing their activity by advocating a theory-based exile makes sense for a lurky scum who knows they need to start contributing more but isn't sure what reads they can justify.

I'm not suggesting scum purposefully allowed a no-exile; I don't see the evidence for that. But if it was TvT, which I'm inclined to think is likely, scum definitely want people to assume it wasn't.

Vote: Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 24, 2021, 03:59:24 am
I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.
The way I see it, scum wants to find PRs. Bringing townies close to exile results in claims, so scum wants that. It's less important that the exile actually goes through, but they'd at least want to push town to X-1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 04:01:04 am
Do you conclude anything about this game from that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 24, 2021, 04:01:25 am
Clearly that depends on the setup. If we're in a 2x Goons scenario, then scum is less worried about PRs, and probably more inclined to let town no-exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 24, 2021, 04:03:19 am
Do you conclude anything about this game from that?
I don't think we have enough information to make meaningful conclusions here. We don't know the setup, we don't know if it was TvT, I think we shouldn't base our reads upon that amount of uncertainty.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 04:11:11 am
We don't know the setup, we don't know if it was TvT, I think we shouldn't base our reads upon that amount of uncertainty.

I agree, and I'm not. I think I base my reads on other reads less than a lot of people here. But of course if joth (and to a lesser extent math) is scum, then Swowl is less likely to be and vice-versa, so it's part of the picture when looking at Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 24, 2021, 04:49:56 am
We don't know the setup, we don't know if it was TvT, I think we shouldn't base our reads upon that amount of uncertainty.

I agree, and I'm not. I think I base my reads on other reads less than a lot of people here. But of course if joth (and to a lesser extent math) is scum, then Swowl is less likely to be and vice-versa, so it's part of the picture when looking at Swowl.
Alright then, what is the rest of the picture?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 05:07:15 am
Everything he's said and any arguments made for or against him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 24, 2021, 05:20:40 am
Everything he's said and any arguments made for or against him.
I'm sorry, weren't you the guy who complained about my not giving reasons? Would you have been satisfied if I said my reasons were "everything"?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 05:31:40 am
I think we're missing each other a bit. My reasons are the reasons I gave in the post I voted, combined with previous things I've said and agreement with some of joth's points. By "the picture when looking at Swowl", I didn't mean my reasons, I meant anything that could possibly be inferred about Swowl and his likely alignment. I'm not hiding anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 07:14:58 am
Oh, iguana. I’m so glad you’re still playing with us. Also, I hope the birthday weekend is awesome.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 07:37:33 am
I feel like I’m having a tough time staying engaged. I think this is largely a result of the lack of flips that’s made it hard to analyze the votes meaningfully for me.

In lots of ways this feels like D1 redux and I’m just as lost as I get then. It’s frustrating me to feel adrift. I’m open to ideas about how I can get an foothold.

Right now, my town has Jimm, MiX, iguana in it and then the suburbs where (faust), (Joth), (EFHW) and (2.7) live.

My questionables are Swowl, math, and gkrieg.

More of my town are voting for gkrieg than math, so I’m cool with that vote.

TL;DR: lots of metaphors and little insight. I feel lost.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 08:13:25 am
Didds, what happened to your scumread on EFHW?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 09:11:37 am
Didds, what happened to your scumread on EFHW?

Its still there, but I am trying to be fair to her...I think I find her scummy because she is cagey. I am so open that I grapple with close to the vest folks. But, she was one of the few people trying to get an exile off at the EOD, and she was so willing to do it that I don't know that it was scummy.  Her wagon was 4 yesterday and never got an higher so I don't think there is enough town will to make that happen today. So, I have decided to just wait and see on her. Same with Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 10:09:43 am
Same with Joth.

Are you saying I'm cagey and close to the vest? Because that is the opposite of what I'm going for. I'm an open book. AMA.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2021, 10:14:22 am
Same with Joth.

Are you saying I'm cagey and close to the vest? Because that is the opposite of what I'm going for. I'm an open book. AMA.

No...that is not what Didds said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 10:17:43 am
Same with Joth.

Are you saying I'm cagey and close to the vest? Because that is the opposite of what I'm going for. I'm an open book. AMA.

No. I'm saying that I am waiting on making decision on you today. I need more data.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 10:29:31 am
Same with Joth.

Are you saying I'm cagey and close to the vest? Because that is the opposite of what I'm going for. I'm an open book. AMA.

No...that is not what Didds said.

Didds said a bunch of things about EFHW and then "Same with Joth" at the end and I wasn't sure how much of the preceding post that post-script applied to.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 24, 2021, 11:00:53 am
So here is what I can gather from various intermediate vote counts D1 (that landed between official vote counts, to make sure some people jumping on or off that didn't officially record get noticed in all these intermediates).  I don't have time to analyze it at the moment, but I'll come back to it, and get D2 similar summary if I can.

But I'm posting now, because maybe it can be useful for people to look back on.

LaLight - MiX, iguana
MiX - mathdude
jotheonah - faust
iguanaiguana - LaLight, gkrieg

LaLight - iguana
MiX - mathdude, LaLight
jotheonah - faust, MiX
iguanaiguana - gkrieg, 2.71

MiX - mathdude, LaLight
jotheonah - MiX, iguana
iguanaiguana - gkrieg, 2.71, faust

Vote Count 1.1
iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., faust
MiX (2): mathdude, LaLight
jotheonah (1): iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (5): Swowl, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, EFHW, gkrieg13

iguanaiguana - 2.71, faust, math
MiX - LaLight
jotheonah - Jimmmmm, MiX
EFHW - WCD, iguana

iguanaiguana - 2.71, math
MiX - LaLight
jotheonah - Jimmmmm, MiX, faust
EFHW - WCD, iguana
mathdude - joth

Vote Count 1.2
iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., mathdude
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): Jimmmmm
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (2): faust, MiX
Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

Vote Count 1.3
iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

iguanaiguana - 2.71
EFHW - WCD, iguana, joth
Jimmmmm - faust, MiX, math, EFHW
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm

iguanaiguana - 2.71
EFHW - WCD, iguana, joth
Jimmmmm - faust, math, EFHW
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm

EFHW - WCD
Jimmmmm - faust, math, EFHW, joth
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm
joth - MiX
math - 2.71, iguana

Vote Count 1.4
iguanaiguana (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Jimmmmm (2): EFHW, jotheonah
faust (2): LaLight, Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): faust
Not Voting (2): Swowl, mathdude

EFHW - WCD
Jimmmmm - EFHW, joth, faust
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg
iguana - MiX

EFHW - WCD, MiX
Jimmmmm - joth, faust
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg
gkrieg - EFHW

EFHW - WCD, MiX
Jimmmmm - joth, faust
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg
MiX - EFHW

Vote Count 1.5
iguanaiguana (1): [<--- error?]
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): Swowl

EFHW - WCD, MiX, joth, Swowl
Jimmmmm - math, EFHW
faust - Jimmmmm
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg
MiX - LaLight, faust

Jimmmmm - math, EFHW, joth
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg, Jimmmmm
MiX - LaLight
joth - faust, MiX, WCD, Swowl

Jimmmmm - math, joth
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg, Jimmmmm
MiX - LaLight
joth - faust, MiX, WCD, Swowl, EFHW

Vote Count 1.Final
Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 11:21:20 am
Same with Joth.

Are you saying I'm cagey and close to the vest? Because that is the opposite of what I'm going for. I'm an open book. AMA.

No...that is not what Didds said.

Didds said a bunch of things about EFHW and then "Same with Joth" at the end and I wasn't sure how much of the preceding post that post-script applied to.

Are we good now?  This is the part that applied to you "So, I have decided to just wait and see on her. Same with Joth. "
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2021, 01:54:13 pm
Maybe quote the post you mean? I looked back and that was from today right around when you voted for me.

Sorry. Mobile.
But I was literally just saying “I’m voting for you today also, that is me saying I have a skum read”

It seems to me that you went from townreading me, to voting for me without a strong scumread, to strongly scumreading me and the only thing that changed was what was convenient for you.


How in the world is that convenient for me if I was Skum? That’s like…. The opposite.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2021, 01:55:31 pm
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 03:02:46 pm
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

I think I've answered this.

I think the TVT wagon thing was a nighttime scum plan to shape the agenda for the day (I think Jim said as much above).

I think you picked me over math because you forgot about your previous fake read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:13:08 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

Just starting to reread through D2 now. Sorry I haven't been around much. I've been pretty busy IRL and haven't really had the time/energy to post. Going to try to go through D2 quickly now.

This post from joth reads townie. It reads like scum hunting, and really trying to get the game going. It looks less townie if math flips scum, I think, because then it could just be joth trying to get attention away from his partner, but that requires both math and joth to be scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:14:56 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

Bold added for emphasis. I know my experience here is fairly limited. But I have noticed that through my games here, the dead have an above average probability of having correct reads, yet we almost never do anything about it.

I doubt we're lucky enough that LL picked 2 on D1. But between the two, I still feel MiX is town-ish, so to start the day, I'll sheep LL's faust suspicion for now.

Vote: faust

Oh no. Now that I thought that joth and math could be scum together, that is all I'm going to see. This post makes it look like they are trying to use LaLight's reads to take attention off of them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:16:49 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

Also, this post seems very conscious about how Swowl will look, which is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2021, 03:36:43 pm
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

I think I've answered this.

I think the TVT wagon thing was a nighttime scum plan to shape the agenda for the day (I think Jim said as much above).

I think you picked me over math because you forgot about your previous fake read.

Okie dokie well pretty much hits a 10 on the ridiculous scale. If there was a plan, then "my entire team" would of had to miss it, not just me.
I don't know what to make of you when you tunnel like this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2021, 03:40:38 pm
Vote: Joth

Why’s that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

Also, this post seems very conscious about how Swowl will look, which is scummy.

1. Because I was being stupid.
2. Are you saying it is skummy that I answered a question about myself that was directed at me? I don't understand where the skumminess you see comes from here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 03:42:36 pm
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

I think I've answered this.

I think the TVT wagon thing was a nighttime scum plan to shape the agenda for the day (I think Jim said as much above).

I think you picked me over math because you forgot about your previous fake read.

Okie dokie well pretty much hits a 10 on the ridiculous scale. If there was a plan, then "my entire team" would of had to miss it, not just me.
I don't know what to make of you when you tunnel like this.

Maybe the scum team had a compelling reason to believe I was a higher priority misexile than mathdude. Or maybe the plan was not that detailed and you didn't run the part about choosing me over mathdude by them. Idk, i don't have access to your QT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:56:57 pm
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

Not sure what to make of this back-and-forth between Jimmmmm and Swowl. It may slightly feel like Swowl is overreacting to Jimmmm's questions, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:57:40 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

This seems like iguana actually trying to make sense of things, seems townie.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 03:58:55 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

I agree with faust here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 04:03:22 pm
Y’all are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time I’ll put together a cogent case.

I strongly disagree with this, especially in the way that it is trying to actively shut down wagon analysis.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 24, 2021, 04:05:20 pm
Cycling back all the D1 votes... I've re-compiled the info in a different format.  Here is who each person has voted for throughout D1.  Maybe I'll keeping it here more for my reference... but maybe others will find it useful too.

These are lists of who each person voted for, in what order.  I didn't note when people strictly unvoted (there were at least 2 cases where someone unvoted, then jumped back to the same person - I was one of them with Jim, but I don't remember the other).

MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth
iguana voted for: LaLight, joth, EFHW, math
math voted for: MiX, iguana, Jim
faust voted for: joth, iguana, joth, Jim, MiX, Jim, MiX, joth
LaLight voted for: iguana, MiX, faust, MiX
gkrieg voted for: iguana, math
2.71 voted for: iguana, math
WCD voted for: EFHW, joth
Jim voted for: joth, EFHW, faust, math
joth voted for: math, EFHW, Jim, EFHW, Jim
EFHW voted for: Jim, gkrieg, MiX, Jim, joth, math
Swowl voted for: EFHW, joth

So some people basically camped all day (and some toward the bottom took half the day before they even made their first vote).  Others jumped around and voted over half the available pool.  I'll cycle back to what I think of all this info later... out of time again.  (Also, I still hope to do a D2 vote summary similar to these as well... before EoD2).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 24, 2021, 04:07:52 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 04:35:04 pm
Quote
MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 04:36:25 pm
Quote
MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bW4vEo1F4E&ab_channel=GomesProClubs
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2021, 05:30:04 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).

I think so, yeah.

Quote
MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

I'm pleasantly surprised you got one with portuguese subtitles.

So, are you calling yourself spam?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 24, 2021, 06:07:25 pm
Quote
MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

He just missed a joth vote between his iguana and EFHW votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 24, 2021, 07:08:47 pm
If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.
I kept saying that because Didds and iguana had both said this is town!math.

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2021, 07:16:06 pm
No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2021, 07:17:48 pm
No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

I looked it over and I remembered that I thought you brought up one thing that was truly scummy and worth mentioning, but it's late and I'm not going to look for that right now.

So if anyone wants to vote math, you can read the EFHW post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2021, 07:50:39 pm
I’m not dead set against math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2021, 08:43:45 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Does Didds usually try to buddy people as scum? (I know she does it as town, but wondering if it is stronger as scum).

I think so, yeah.

Quote
MiX voted for: LaLight, joth, gkrieg, joth, Jim, joth, iguana, EFHW, joth

lol

I'm pleasantly surprised you got one with portuguese subtitles.

So, are you calling yourself spam?

It's not entirely unapt.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 24, 2021, 10:45:23 pm
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

All I know is that you concluded joth wasn't scum and math was middle leaning scummy, then voted for joth both Days for no given reason besides sheeping your Town reads. Have you noticed that both Didds and MiX have since more or less reversed their preference to math over joth? Does that change your preference, or do you have a read of your own?

One reason for picking joth over math could be thinking that the math wagon had enough steam of its own, so voting joth could be the best way to maintain both wagons. I'm not sure I agree that you simply forgot about your prior joth post, but there are any number of reasons you might decide to prefer joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2021, 12:31:11 am
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

All I know is that you concluded joth wasn't scum and math was middle leaning scummy, then voted for joth both Days for no given reason besides sheeping your Town reads. Have you noticed that both Didds and MiX have since more or less reversed their preference to math over joth? Does that change your preference, or do you have a read of your own?

One reason for picking joth over math could be thinking that the math wagon had enough steam of its own, so voting joth could be the best way to maintain both wagons. I'm not sure I agree that you simply forgot about your prior joth post, but there are any number of reasons you might decide to prefer joth.

You avoided my question, but I will still answer yours.

Yes I noticed they have switched. And I obviously have my own read at this point or I would not be voting for him currently. But yeah, it does make me question... like all my reads at least a little.
Have been attempting to finish a Joth v Math thing for a few days now. Hopefully will have it tonight.




Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 25, 2021, 12:45:35 am
What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2021, 01:45:35 am
What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)



Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 25, 2021, 01:54:52 am
I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2021, 02:28:12 am
I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".

I am not frustrated because of the "pressure". There is the guy I think is skum, and then you. I am frustrated because I was out Day 1 and am having trouble getting back in... and because I cannot seem to get anyone to see what it is I am seeing.

It is nearly midnight here, and I doubt it will do anything. But I will summarize my joth reasons when I get back from breakfast tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 25, 2021, 08:59:49 am
I don't get why you're frustrated. I've had enough lurky Day 1s to know that it catches up with you sooner or later. But you've only had 2 people putting any real amount of pressure on you. If you legitimately think joth is scum, then make some sort of case that goes beyond "one of them has to be scum and my Townreads voted joth".

I am not frustrated because of the "pressure". There is the guy I think is skum, and then you. I am frustrated because I was out Day 1 and am having trouble getting back in... and because I cannot seem to get anyone to see what it is I am seeing.

It is nearly midnight here, and I doubt it will do anything. But I will summarize my joth reasons when I get back from breakfast tomorrow.

I sooooooo feel you. (Although of course I do). I didn’t realize how much the D1 fizzle would cost us in energy. And the LL flip told us nothing because he was out there voting on his own, anyway. It wasn’t the same as a deliberate noexile…it was just a flop. Which means this is just D1 redux. BUT, it blame is shared among all of us. You shouldn’t feel bad for we all did together.

Our inability to get off an exile of Joth or math is interesting though. If one was sum and one was town, why wouldn’t scum just all hop on the town. If they were both scum, wouldn’t they bus some one? But both Joth and math ended the day voting for Jim, not one another. Why?!?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2021, 09:23:16 am

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math,

On this small point we agree. Does the fact that I am so dead against the gkrieg exile not affect your read on me at all?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 25, 2021, 11:51:24 am
If this turns out to be town!math, then I will have more insight into how to read him, I think.

I think I'm going to have to go with my scumread and if I'm wrong I'll make adjustments in the future.

If that turns out to be the case anyway, I will know that for the future.

I don't like this at all from EFHW; it's like she's pre-empting a misexile. Maybe someone can tell me if this is just a thing she says all the time, but the fact that she said it three times in a relatively short space of time indicates she really wanted to emphasise it and take pressure off of herself for having a read.
I kept saying that because Didds and iguana had both said this is town!math.

No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

Thank you for posting those! Helped me understand where you're coming from better. No real time to respond atm though
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 25, 2021, 11:53:36 am
Swowl saying most frustrating he's ever played seems like a suspicious hyperbole - would like to hear more about thst
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 25, 2021, 11:54:07 am
Really want to watch Portuguese Monty python but no time and I'm back to VLA
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 25, 2021, 12:48:20 pm
But both Joth and math ended the day voting for Jim, not one another. Why?!?

I did mention in passing (earlier D2) that I got stuck working at deadline. I was supposed to be done between 2 and 2:30. But we finished, I pulled out my phone, saw 3:00 on the dot, logged in, and see that mod was on the ball and shut it quick. If I was on in time, I would have switched vote... which, ironically, given my history, may have gotten me exiled somehow.

But regardless, in hindsight now, a flip D1 would have been better than no exile. This just feels like another D1, as has been said. I was hoping voting patterns would have shed some more light, but I don't see much in what I posted earlier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 25, 2021, 03:47:49 pm
I feel a bit talked out... let's look at the vote count.

Vote Count 2.faust

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (2): jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

So deadline is in less than 2 days. We should make sure to actually get an exile. The people who are not on a proper wagon should either move or make a case to convince people. The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2021, 05:28:09 pm

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math,

On this small point we agree. Does the fact that I am so dead against the gkrieg exile not affect your read on me at all?

Sigh…. Yes. A little. As did some things in my read over on second glance.
Need to think/read a bit. Back soon.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2021, 05:29:18 pm
I feel a bit talked out... let's look at the vote count.

Vote Count 2.faust

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (2): jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

So deadline is in less than 2 days. We should make sure to actually get an exile. The people who are not on a proper wagon should either move or make a case to convince people. The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

So you're basically saying this day should be math vs gkrieg?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 25, 2021, 07:47:32 pm
I do agree, it's time to consolidate... we're less than 2 days to deadline. I don't think it has to be me vs gkrieg. But even so, I just reread his D2 posts... all 10 of them. One on the 21st, one on the 22nd, none on the 23rd, 8 on the 24th, none today yet. Here is what he said:

1. Need to catch up
2. Still haven't reread. I'm keeping my vote on math. Votes me.
3. One joth post looks townie, but he could be scum covering his partner if math flips scum
4. Now I'm just thinking what if math and joth are both scum?
5. Swowl looks scummy
6. Swowl is overreacting to Jim's questions
7. Iguana seems townie
8. Agree with faust (quoted post)
9. Disagree with joth - he is shutting down wagon analysis
10.Didds buddies people as town. Does she as scum?

I would say I saved you all some time from rereading gkrieg... but to be honest, reading his posts would be just about as fast as reading this summary. He has literally contributed nothing. He has said a few 1-liners ... the type scum says to sound townie.

He has probably included a partner in his "townie" or "scummy" calls... just not sure which. He's just leaving them there to try to mess with us if we do follow through with voting him.

So whoever said gkrieg is just a lazy vote... I disagree. It's a calculated vote who looks like scum trying to sneak by without saying too much.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 25, 2021, 08:02:19 pm
.
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

Give me two good reasons the gkrieg wagon is better than the Swowl wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2021, 08:49:24 pm
gkrieg isn't posting a lot,  but many of his posts contain content in which he takes stances and expresses opinions. I feel like math is going for the easy lurker exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 25, 2021, 09:03:13 pm
I agree that Swowl's frustration seems overplayed, and I'm not seeing an argument that applies to gkrieg and not Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2021, 09:20:05 pm
My opinion on Swowl has swung townier. But one question,  the theory he put forth was a T v. S scenario. But since then everyone  including him has been calling it T v. T.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 25, 2021, 11:20:08 pm
gkrieg isn't posting a lot,  but many of his posts contain content in which he takes stances and expresses opinions. I feel like math is going for the easy lurker exile.

The posts are taking stances and expressing opinions. But he's hardly engaging. They are easy statements to make for town or scum. They are the type scum makes to seem engaged, without actually caring what happens.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 26, 2021, 12:00:02 am
My opinion on Swowl has swung townier. But one question,  the theory he put forth was a T v. S scenario. But since then everyone  including him has been calling it T v. T.

I don't recall referring to it as a TvT wagon situation?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 26, 2021, 01:47:49 am
I do agree, it's time to consolidate... we're less than 2 days to deadline. I don't think it has to be me vs gkrieg. But even so, I just reread his D2 posts... all 10 of them. One on the 21st, one on the 22nd, none on the 23rd, 8 on the 24th, none today yet. Here is what he said:

1. Need to catch up
2. Still haven't reread. I'm keeping my vote on math. Votes me.
3. One joth post looks townie, but he could be scum covering his partner if math flips scum
4. Now I'm just thinking what if math and joth are both scum?
5. Swowl looks scummy
6. Swowl is overreacting to Jim's questions
7. Iguana seems townie
8. Agree with faust (quoted post)
9. Disagree with joth - he is shutting down wagon analysis
10.Didds buddies people as town. Does she as scum?

I would say I saved you all some time from rereading gkrieg... but to be honest, reading his posts would be just about as fast as reading this summary. He has literally contributed nothing. He has said a few 1-liners ... the type scum says to sound townie.

He has probably included a partner in his "townie" or "scummy" calls... just not sure which. He's just leaving them there to try to mess with us if we do follow through with voting him.

So whoever said gkrieg is just a lazy vote... I disagree. It's a calculated vote who looks like scum trying to sneak by without saying too much.

I was the one that said he was a lazy vote.
I went and did an actual re read just cuz your summary was super... "summarized".

He does do lots of 1 liners, but also it is GK... that is what he does.
I also agree with the majority of his TRs. He is also fairly consistent in his reads, and really only mentions the partner call out thing like once from what I can see. And I read it as kind of tongue  in cheek.

What is it that you think is the calculated part of the votes for him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 26, 2021, 02:49:01 am
So you're basically saying this day should be math vs gkrieg?
Anyone is free to argue their case. But whoever is just leaving their vote on a non-viable player without actively trying to convince people is trying to steer us towards another nexile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 26, 2021, 02:49:29 am
.
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

Give me two good reasons the gkrieg wagon is better than the Swowl wagon.
1. gkrieg has completely ignored the wagon on him.
2. Swowl is obviously town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 07:26:42 am
.
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

Give me two good reasons the gkrieg wagon is better than the Swowl wagon.
1. gkrieg has completely ignored the wagon on him.
2. Swowl is obviously town.
1. How is that scummy? He probably hasn't even seen it yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 07:28:25 am
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 07:51:48 am
Actually same question to Jim and the whole TVT wagon thing. What’s your theory for me isolating a TVT wagon today like you say, but also switching from Math to Joth?

I think I've answered this.

I think the TVT wagon thing was a nighttime scum plan to shape the agenda for the day (I think Jim said as much above).

I think you picked me over math because you forgot about your previous fake read.

Here's joth making the same mistake.  TvT came up a lot previously,  but Jimmmmm and faust spoke hypothetically rather than using  it to describe the theory. Just wondering if Swowl or joth might have scumslipped.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 07:55:25 am
No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

I looked it over and I remembered that I thought you brought up one thing that was truly scummy and worth mentioning, but it's late and I'm not going to look for that right now.

So if anyone wants to vote math, you can read the EFHW post.

Have you remembered what was scummy to you?

You are much quieter than usual.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 08:02:11 am

Here's joth making the same mistake.  TvT came up a lot previously,  but Jimmmmm and faust spoke hypothetically rather than using  it to describe the theory. Just wondering if Swowl or joth might have scumslipped.

I think this is Swowl saying "Why do you think it was TvT?", and joth replying "This is why I think it was TvT." It's discussing the idea that Swowl is scum who pushed for having the same wagons because they were TvT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:31:55 am

Here's joth making the same mistake.  TvT came up a lot previously,  but Jimmmmm and faust spoke hypothetically rather than using  it to describe the theory. Just wondering if Swowl or joth might have scumslipped.

I think this is Swowl saying "Why do you think it was TvT?", and joth replying "This is why I think it was TvT." It's discussing the idea that Swowl is scum who pushed for having the same wagons because they were TvT.
Read it again. It could well be nothing, but it's not what you just said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 08:35:39 am
No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

I looked it over and I remembered that I thought you brought up one thing that was truly scummy and worth mentioning, but it's late and I'm not going to look for that right now.

So if anyone wants to vote math, you can read the EFHW post.

Have you remembered what was scummy to you?

You are much quieter than usual.

No, I forgot I even posted that. I've been busy having fun with other stuff.

I don't know who scum is, and I can't see us exiling scum that wasn't wagoned already. So I'm just chilling in a wagon waiting for the day to end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 08:38:20 am
Read it again. It could well be nothing, but it's not what you just said.

One of us is misunderstanding. To me it seems like Swowl is asking me and joth why he as scum would push for the same wagons as Yesterday, which were TvT in this scenario (and also why he switched from math to joth), and joth is talking about the scum plan of pushing those same wagons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 08:39:51 am
If I had to take a guess, exactly one scum is active. Everyone else active is town. This is the vibe I'm getting.

The active scum is joth. Probably. I don't know.

Read it again. It could well be nothing, but it's not what you just said.

One of us is misunderstanding. To me it seems like Swowl is asking me and joth why he as scum would push for the same wagons as Yesterday, which were TvT in this scenario (and also why he switched from math to joth), and joth is talking about the scum plan of pushing those same wagons.

I think Jimmmmm is right on this one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 08:43:26 am
If I had to take a guess, exactly one scum is active. Everyone else active is town. This is the vibe I'm getting.

Given how many Townreads are going around, I feel like either we're doing really well and are close to PoEing the full team, or scum is doing really well hiding in the "Towncore". Of course, it's likely somewhere in the middle. One scum among the Towny folks seems reasonable.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 08:47:14 am
I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 08:51:44 am
Oh EFHW I think I understand where you're coming from. You could interpret Swowl's "isolating a TVT wagon" as Swowl saying "These wagons were TvT", which obviously he didn't do, he said they weren't. I interpreted it as he isolated the joth/math wagons, which happen to be TvT in the scenario being discussed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 10:04:26 am
Good morning, friendlies.

Vote Count 2.WCD

mathdude (4): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX, Joth
jotheonah (1): Swowl
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (1): Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

I am committed to getting an exile today (I think we all are). I prefer gkrieg to math, but I’ll vote for math if that’s the choice. I’ll wait until Swowl, e, and Jimm gave a chance to weigh in on the current state of the game, then I’ll put him at x-1. Cool? Cool.

In the meantime it’s Sunday so I’ve got done relaxing family stuff to do.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 10:05:59 am
Vote: gkrieg over math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 10:06:54 am
My personal deadline is about 24 hours from now FYI.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 10:09:01 am
I just realised the nice thing about the no-exile is that we're now odd, so exiling Today is a bit easier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 26, 2021, 10:25:31 am
Thanks for updated vote count. I didn't realize I hadn't moved my vote. But now that Jim moved there, my vote would put gkrieg at X-1. So for now, I'll just post intent to do it. Just Swowl and e now to weigh in on me vs gkrieg?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 11:06:26 am
If I had to take a guess, exactly one scum is active. Everyone else active is town. This is the vibe I'm getting.

The active scum is joth. Probably. I don't know.

Read it again. It could well be nothing, but it's not what you just said.

One of us is misunderstanding. To me it seems like Swowl is asking me and joth why he as scum would push for the same wagons as Yesterday, which were TvT in this scenario (and also why he switched from math to joth), and joth is talking about the scum plan of pushing those same wagons.

I think Jimmmmm is right on this one.
He's not, but whatever.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 11:10:03 am
No one commented on the distortions I found. The snipping and then mischaracterizing was the most serious to me.

I remember agreeing with them but not seeing how they make math more scummy. I also remember being confirmation biased about it.

I looked it over and I remembered that I thought you brought up one thing that was truly scummy and worth mentioning, but it's late and I'm not going to look for that right now.

So if anyone wants to vote math, you can read the EFHW post.

Have you remembered what was scummy to you?

You are much quieter than usual.

No, I forgot I even posted that. I've been busy having fun with other stuff.

I don't know who scum is, and I can't see us exiling scum that wasn't wagoned already. So I'm just chilling in a wagon waiting for the day to end.
Well math has been wagoned. Why are you so reluctant to share your opinion?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 11:44:52 am
Opinion on what? I obviously prefer math to gkrieg right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 12:02:22 pm
Unsurprisingly, I think joth makes some good points about Swowl, but I was like, "Does scum actually do that?" That is, come out as Swowl did Day 2, without acknowledgement of his prior post about joth.

I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.

Then I realised, this is exactly what Swowl was pushing. And increasing their activity by advocating a theory-based exile makes sense for a lurky scum who knows they need to start contributing more but isn't sure what reads they can justify.

I'm not suggesting scum purposefully allowed a no-exile; I don't see the evidence for that. But if it was TvT, which I'm inclined to think is likely, scum definitely want people to assume it wasn't.

Vote: Swowl

This is Jimmmmm assuming that it's TvT if Swowl's scum (and if Swowl's scum it's TvT, and he believes one of these is true because of reads). then Swowl's quoted post was about this hypothesis, because that's really the only reason to not trust Swowl's TvS scenario (that is, it only makes sense to not trust Swowl's TvS scenario IFF he's scum and it's TvT).

So yeah I think Jimmmmm is right. If you still disagree I think this should be discussed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 26, 2021, 12:46:40 pm
I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

The top of this post is a contradiction, no? Swowl is not active
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 12:49:26 pm
I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

The top of this post is a contradiction, no? Swowl is not active

That post is a glaring scumslip as town!joth never thinks like this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 26, 2021, 12:52:02 pm
I dislike Faust calling the Swowl wagon stupid quite a bit but I still prefer gkrieg today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 26, 2021, 01:59:48 pm
Forget waiting.

Vote: gkrieg

He hasn't posted in nearly 48 hours. But his profile says last active on forum at 12:34pm today. He's watching, and just hoping the wagon sways away from him. He's afraid if he says something, it will further incriminate him.

I believe that's X-1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:13:23 pm
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

This seems like it comes out of nowhere.

PPE: Oh wow, didn't realize I was at X-1. Also, me being active on the forum does not mean anything. The game is open in my browser, and is open to the last page I was looking at, so I didn't see the recent pages.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:13:50 pm
Well, at least let me catch up reading. I'm excited to get to the case on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:20:03 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

It doesn't have to be both! Trust me, I can be town and also be super detrimental. That is most likely the case here.

At any rate, I wasn't sheeping you, and actually I had no idea you were even voting faust.

I really honestly believe that you can't write a good case against faust. He has played in near every game I've played in since 2015, and I don't think I've ever been able to read him accurately. Mostly I find him to be towny even when he is scum. Last game I trusted that read and lost.

This game, I am not feeling the case against Jim at all. EFHW seemed scummy at first but has largely come back from that. I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town. I'm least sure about Joth, but a large part of that is just PoE from my other townreads.

So those are the major wagons that we've had, and I don't feel great about any of them. So it begs the question, if all of those people are town (possible), who is scum? Probably someone who is playing quite well. Hence, the vote on faust, who I think always plays well as scum.

You can call that grasping at straws if you want. But I have certainly put thought into it.

Faust is easy to read as the days go on. He will always tunnel someone the first few days and have a logical case against them, which usually makes them defensive and look guilty. Then faust will convince enough people that the exile goes through, and because his case was logical, people won't hold it against him. So it works for him as scum or town.

Later in the game though, it becomes more obvious, as he will vote for people without putting together very good cases, and will just generally feel wrong as scum. His cases make less sense, when there is more information from flips.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:21:03 pm
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.

I'm not sure this is actually true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:22:08 pm
My sense of towncore currently tracks pretty strongly with level of engagement. I’m wary about that, but also would really like to know how gkrieg and e see the game.

EFHW, do you have a scum to chum list?

Jimm, sorry for confusing you. I was talking about two different games. DS9 is the one where MiX was my not so great intro to MiX and Glooble’s Spark game was there one where he vengekilled me instead of scum!you and then you later won the game. It was a lesson in scum!luker!Jimmmm

I mean, most of the people in the game are highly active, so it is pretty unlikely that all of the high activity is coming from town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:25:11 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
This is a really strange post. For some reason math is offended that iguana joined the faust wagon, to the point that he unvotes. This outrage feels like an excuse to get off the wagon. He could be protecting partner faust, or more likely trying to frame him.

vote: mathdude

PPE MiX saying the same thing.

Have there been games yet where math was scum and didn't die in the first day? Have we seen what math does when bussing?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:29:40 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Can someone look at this post and tell me with a straight face that math is town?

I'm sorry for my lack of participation the last day and a bit.  I don't like to use real life as an excuse - I try to still pop in and stay relevant as much as possible (it's usually easy to pull out the phone, catch up on reading, and add a though, or respond to something).  But a lot of stuff is happening right now, between current work, prospects for future work, repairs at a rental I own, and some stuff in my family that I have to attend to.  It all came together at the wrong time (all at the same time), and I'm still dealing with a bunch of it.

Last night, I wrote the quoted post, in my heading really not sure where iguana was at - I had been feeling he's a bit scummy for a while, but that post of his I quoted really set off scum-bells for me.  I started a re-read of him (on phone, in bed), then fell asleep.  I was planning to follow up that post (where I "unvoted") with a post about iguana and likely a vote for him.  That quoted post wasn't meant to be the end of my thoughts, which is why it seems incomplete.  I still haven't gotten to it, and I may not today.  But by tomorrow morning, I'm hoping to get back to a full iguana reread, and decide what I think of him.  Hopefully 2 of the 4 main issues will be mostly complete by then, and tomorrow I can start looking through job prospects (which is conveniently on the computer, not on my phone!)

If someone wants to save me a little time and summarize iguana's posts through D1 and D2, that might save me a bit of time.  But I will go through them for sure, as I feel he's one person I've basically ignored this game so far - probably the most active person I've ignored (I also have almost no thoughts on e or gk, since almost nothing they have said has stood out to me, other than their basically naked votes of me D1).

Again, sorry I left that post hanging like that.  It wasn't meant to be the of my thoughts.  (Consider after my previous post, that I posted again saying "iguana, I think you're scum because ... [these reasons]", then I vote for him).

I know I'm just reiterating what others have said, but this post really doesn't address what was scummy about the post. I also think that overexplaining things with a lot of details is something scum does more often than town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:30:16 pm
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

Not sure why joth keeps promising this, but not just doing it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:31:39 pm
@EFHW, I was seeing a lot of posts like that last game too, when Math was town.

One thing I've noticed about Math is that he sort of describes things in black and white. In a way, it makes sense for a game like mafia because either you're scum or you're town. But he doesn't often seem to leave room for the uncertainty of things like "you might be town" or "you might be right, but you might be wrong." But the way he said I'm either super helpful or lying scum, it's like he had this gut reaction and he didn't even consider the in between.

And I think I was seeing that from Math and having a hard time not scum reading it in Oz as well.

I'll be honest. I'm still having trouble not reading every third thing Math says as scum. But I think there are enough reasons to consider him town right now that he shouldn't be the exile today. IMO we need to look elsewhere.

Why shouldn't math be the exile today? We have many wagons to look at on him, so knowing his flip would be very informative, and also, people have made pretty strong stances on him either way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:33:14 pm
Okay, fair point on D2 busy. I am missing the town!joth pushing the game forward bit. Instead he's doing that scummy thing of "wait for it..." and we wait.

I know I am especially suspicious of him because I am townreading so many people and he is on the edge of that (out past the edge are 2.7 and gkrieg). So, while I am not voting for him yet, I think that is probably where I end up. If he's not scum, then at least his flip is informative.  (So freaking smart for scum to off someone whose flip gave us no information at all. Grrrrr.)

Not exactly sure why, but the last parenthetical really seems like Didds waving her fist at herself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:34:59 pm
going to iso Joth and faust, will post thoughts then go from there.

I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

Its going to be a good one, lets not exile Joth D2.

That being said, I feel as thought Joth is playing a very open unafraid game that I associate with town. Basically, you know who you are, you don't know who anyone else is, and you just go for it. His D1 reads evolved in a very (in my opinion) natural way as opposed to scum trying to force a read. Opening D2 talking about reading LaLight's posts and deciding to vote MiX could be WIFOM coming from scum who did that analysis at night, but it felt very town just rereading the game to me.

Really, nothing from Joth sticks out as scummy.  I disagree with him at points, but I don't see his positions coming from scummy motives.

This post about Joth is very reasonable from e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:36:59 pm
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

I realize I'm after those 10 minutes, and I'm guessing you voted me solely for self-preservation since I had the most votes. But you really should have looked at one of the people others have actually expressed a willingness to vote for. Someone whose some will actually give us reads on other people once we see a flip.

I honestly don't get the votes on me. There's nothing to defend against.

e voted me early, hasn't moved, hasn't participated much.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).

gkrieg had a naked vote, I believe as well. And he hasn't said much else... regarding me or others. Just let the vote stick.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.

I like this post.  Just honest run-through on the wagon.  2 lurker votes, good vote from iguana, self-preservation from Jimmmmm.  Feels like frustrated town (maybe frustrated isn't the right word, but something along those lines). My reread leaves me much townier on math.

vote: faust

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up on faust? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

Is it just that post that lands you townie on mathdude? It seems like you skipped over the posts that other people have found scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:38:11 pm
I'm sorry but the case for faust is not forthcoming because I have decided that faust is probably town for reasons. I will continue re-reading and come at you guys with a great, wonderful, game-changing case on someone else TBD.

Unvote

Wow. Ok. So with this, joth slips into the mode of fading into the background that other people were saying he does in his scum games.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:39:08 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana

I'm agreeing a lot with e right now
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:41:56 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

So, I was reading this game, and I was like, holy crap, Joth is playing so good here. I knew he was scum, did not know his partners (except McMc, who flipped D1), did not know his role. Then... this:

I found the traitor role to be very freeing. My reads were fake, but my interactions were genuine, which made the game like 50% easier, if that makes sense.

See, I think I get Joth. He has a really hard time with scum because he thrives on uncertainty. Knowing his partners takes the uncertainty out of the game and replaces it with duplicity, and I think he has a really hard time with that.

As a result, in the one example of a mafia game where he really played his heart out and fooled people, he was a traitor. The uncertainty was very much alive because he didn't know his partners.

So I guess if I am reading Joth correctly here, then that's because we are cut from the same cloth in that way. Both of us really struggle with being mafia. So as someone else who tends to lurk as scum and overplay as town, I guess I am seeing similar things from Joth's record and his current game. So he's actually one of the people I'm more confident in. The fact that he was traitor in that game really seals it.

I think Joth is town.

My issue with joth is that it looks like he is playing the kind of game you play if you know you are bad at playing scum. He regularly does things to avoid interacting with people. His going back and reading LaLight's posts is an easy way to create reads and look like you are townie (scumhunting) without actually having to interact with people. Same thing with saying he has a case on faust, and stringing it along to just end up with nothing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:43:05 pm
Doubly good becuase now this is no longer OMGUS:

Vote: 2.71828.....

Interesting. This is not the conclusion I expected faust to draw.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 02:43:45 pm
Sorry, I kind of disappeared over the weekend.

I will read the people I haven't read, then go back and look at our top wagons. I should be around most of the day tomorrow except a few hours leading up to deadline (dinner, getting kids to bed), but I will be here at deadline
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:45:12 pm
I would like to hear more from gkrieg about EFHW (and in general of course).

An EFHW who kind of hangs back and doesn't seem to develop strong reads tends to be a town EFHW. I think she is town here.

I was just recently in a game with her where we were both town and the game came down to the final 3 (BSG 2?) and she read a lot like she does here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:46:02 pm
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

I will join you fausty!

Vote: gkrieg

So these two posts are how my wagon starts? and I'm at X-1?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 02:48:59 pm
Join me on faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:49:53 pm
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

Do you scumread gkrieg?

Would you answer the question "why are you voting gkrieg" meaningfully if I asked it now? Do you think I would consider the answer meaningful?

Why are you voting gkrieg?
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Ok.

Vote: gkrieg

I would argue that I have done townie things this game. I have been making cases on the people I scum read, I've been sharing town reads of players when I find them. I haven't been very active, but I have been trying to get into the game by asking people questions (which they don't usually respond to).

Also, how is this due to PoE with 11 people alive? You don't find anyone scummy right now? You would rather just exile a lurker that no one has really voiced hard reads about?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:52:53 pm
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

In a game where we no-exiled D1, the N1 kill was a lurker, and there has been a lot of discussion around several people (faust, joth, math), you want to exile someone because of PoE and XAL? How does my flip help you for the rest of the game?

When I flip town and someone like e is killed in the night, where does that leave town for the rest of the game?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:53:43 pm
I'm kind of shocked that no one amongst all the veteran players voting gkrieg has brought this up yet.

This is why I was scumreading MiX and faust. As e points out, they are doing the vast majority of the posting and the laziest possible scumhunting. It feels like scum trying to lead town down a road to nowhere.

Now I know I said that I had a townread on faust but man I'm not sure now.

The case I was going to make was about MiX and faust playing a truly audacious scum game because their metas allow them to get away with it and they know it. I know that's a big swing, but tell me it doesn't pretty neatly explain the game so far!

Exactly this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:55:04 pm
I am normally not a fan of lurker exiles because they are the easiest thing in the world for scum to push through and lurkers are, on balance, more likely to be town than scum. Furthermore, if gkrieg is town his flip will be more useless than LaLight's. Let's do better.

It’s not just the lurking… it’s that he’s outside of my town list. Now, I know my town list it too big, but if reduce my voting pool to those outside of it, it makes the choice easier.

So, since the tides are turning back to town!Joth, whose on the outs for you?

I don't think lurkers tend to be on people's town lists.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 02:59:12 pm
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

I also find myself agreeing with faust's statements here.  And I add to that the fact that gkrieg camped on me all day, D1, with very flimsy reasoning (and when I responded to his one actual concern, that he thought I said "we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers", even though I responded to that, showing that's not at all what I said, and he didn't respond anymore).

He's posting just enough to feel like he's participating, but he's not really adding anything.  Just trying to stay relevant.  And it's not working.
--snip--

I actually thought I did respond to that. Either way, it was the way you furthered the idea from MiX. Instead of saying, hey that's a good idea, I will look into the lurkers and pick one to target, you just passed on the buck, saying that we as a whole should do it. That is something that looks townie, without actually moving anything forward or expressing reads on any of the lurkers.

I've been pretty busy, and getting very behind in this game, where it takes quite a bit of time to catch up properly and not really miss things. Trying to stay relevant is not a bad thing, as it keeps me engaged in the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 26, 2021, 02:59:48 pm
But also,

Vote: gkrieg

Will you join me, iguana?

I will join you fausty!

Vote: gkrieg

So these two posts are how my wagon starts? and I'm at X-1?

Reminds me of the late D1 wagon on me. You and e sat on me most of the day, then all of a sudden I was 1 of the final 2 wagons.

I honestly don't know what the case is on me. But I do agree that there are finally enough thoughts and stances on me that it could help us D3 if I'm exiled today. However, that still puts us behind, so it would be better to just vote out scum.

gkrieg hasn't said anything to convince me he's town. But he does raise some valid points on faust. I don't know if both could be scum (I guess maybe... if he's godfather, and he figures it's better to bus a goon?) But likely at least 1 of them are.

And on top of that, there are definitely more people's opinions stated on faust, compared to gkrieg. I think a switch to faust could be a good idea.

PPE: 4
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:05:26 pm
And gkrieg is a high caliber player, who has also done nothing but push Math and lurk. So I would say that yes the things he has done are scummy things.

Thanks for the flattery. If you look at any of my games, I am a much better player once some flips have happened and I'm able to go back and reread things and form opinions. I have a pretty bad short-term memory, so if I don't look at things all at once, I don't tend to form opinions that last, so I would rather read things all at once to form stronger reads.

This whole game has been a little like a long D1 for my style of play. Rereading people right now does not allow for analysis with flips to inform my reads on people, so it's all the part of the game that I don't like very much and am not very good at.

Which is why I was willing to change my vote at EoD D1. I just really wanted to get an exile so we could have a good flip.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:07:43 pm
I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 26, 2021, 03:09:37 pm
I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?

You don't have to. But your stance is very helpful if we flip faust instead of me or gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:12:01 pm
Okay, Gkrieg reread is the only one I have time for since it's going to be so short:

So his first several posts are meta-related. In a way that just reflects where we were at that stage of the game, but it's also worth noting that it's incredibly easy for scum to give that type of participation and nothing more.

so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

To me, this seems potentially scummy. Partially because I am scumreading EFHW but also because it doesn't strike me as a particularly bold post that you could form a townread off of that. It does look like gkrieg and EFHW could be partners.

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

This is basically gkrieg's only contribution to D2. Just want to say, it is hard to fake changing your reads. Especially so if you are busy and having trouble keeping up as scum. But it is incredibly easy to just post a read, give a reason, then stick with that for the entire game. And that is what gkrieg is doing here so far.

Also, while I initially was townreading gkrieg for his case on Math, I think that because Math is an easy player to pick on, he's an easy target. So I can see the scum narrative there too in terms of trying to pick a town player as scum who looks scummy in order to have a case and look town. And then you naturally end up on someone who is misexiled often.

So, to me, it's not just gkrieg lurking. It's also the content of the lurking.

Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 03:14:28 pm
I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

The top of this post is a contradiction, no? Swowl is not active

He’s been quite active day 2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 03:15:18 pm
Well, at least let me catch up reading. I'm excited to get to the case on me.

Don’t be too excited because as far as I can tell there isn’t one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 03:16:21 pm
Sorry I’m having a lurky D2. I am reading along and planning to do some rereading but life is busy rn.
I thought you were going to give us the incredible case you have built on me. I guess those were empty promises.

Just you wait. It's going to crack this game wide open.

Not sure why joth keeps promising this, but not just doing it.

It’s a bit. It’s really funny.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:17:19 pm
I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?

Remind me again why.  Top 2 reasons faust is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:17:59 pm
Well, at least let me catch up reading. I'm excited to get to the case on me.

Don’t be too excited because as far as I can tell there isn’t one.

I think he already did.

I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?

Remind me again why.  Top 2 reasons faust is town.

- He got a town PM.
- He's not aligned with anyone else.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:18:29 pm
I feel a bit talked out... let's look at the vote count.

Vote Count 2.faust

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (2): jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

So deadline is in less than 2 days. We should make sure to actually get an exile. The people who are not on a proper wagon should either move or make a case to convince people. The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

So you want it to be me/math?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:19:39 pm
I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?

Remind me again why.  Top 2 reasons faust is town.

- He got a town PM.
- He's not aligned with anyone else.

I feel like these aren't enough.

- He's not pushing anything extra that helps scum
- He's trying to make town win
- He's the complete opposite of last game
- He's just like any one of his town games
- He's comfortable to talk with and about
- His posts are townie
- His actions seem to be helping town

What else do you need?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:24:52 pm
I mean, faust is still town. Do I need to talk about this?

Remind me again why.  Top 2 reasons faust is town.

- He got a town PM.
- He's not aligned with anyone else.

I feel like these aren't enough.

- He's not pushing anything extra that helps scum
- He's trying to make town win
- He's the complete opposite of last game
- He's just like any one of his town games
- He's comfortable to talk with and about
- His posts are townie
- His actions seem to be helping town

What else do you need?

That's a pretty decent list of nothing at all.  I'll allow it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:27:11 pm
Really liking all of the gkrieg posts, they feel very town.

Some of the recent iguana posts have me wanting to fall back to my iguana scum read. I also just ISO'd Didds, and they are still the happy and cheerful WCD we all know and love, but unfortunately I think she may be scum this time.

Iguana and WCD and one more person on their team.  Case to follow....
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:31:37 pm
.
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

Give me two good reasons the gkrieg wagon is better than the Swowl wagon.
1. gkrieg has completely ignored the wagon on him.
2. Swowl is obviously town.

I honestly did not know about the wagon on me. Now seeing it, it is pretty pathetic.

I have already quoted the four votes on me (other than math's, which I haven't gotten to yet in my reread).

Faust's vote was partially PoE, partially XAL. Both of those are horrible reasons. PoE makes more sense when there are fewer people, or when you have better reasons people are town (right now, most things have to be based on gut reads, or things that are fairly easy to fake as scum). XAL is just not good in a game with only one, non-informative flip. Also his vote really is trying to get iguana on board, which is kinda weird because iguana was looking at me and faust.

Didds sheeped for essentially the same reasons, which is even worse. Although she does join before faust gives his reasons

MiX joins the wagon after hearing faust's reasons. Does he think they are good reasons?

Iguana also votes for me after, where his case is that "when no one looks like scum, it's probably faust, or gkrieg". Which is basically faust's case, but without the XAL thrown in. This case is essentially that faust and gkrieg are the only two players who don't look like scum when they are scum, so if everyone looks like town, no one else could fake looking townie, so faust and gkrieg must be scum. It should be clear why this is a bad case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:36:43 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Then D2 there is this:

Didds, what happened to your scumread on EFHW?

Its still there, but I am trying to be fair to her...I think I find her scummy because she is cagey. I am so open that I grapple with close to the vest folks. But, she was one of the few people trying to get an exile off at the EOD, and she was so willing to do it that I don't know that it was scummy.  Her wagon was 4 yesterday and never got an higher so I don't think there is enough town will to make that happen today. So, I have decided to just wait and see on her. Same with Joth.

This feels extremely scummy to me. More specifically, it feels like scum who had moved on from her fake scum read on EFHW but then when reminded about it kept it alive, because you never know when you need to get that mis-exile in. Basically, I don't buy WCD's read on EFHW as being a genuine town reading another player as scum.

vote: WCD
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:39:00 pm
Vote: gkrieg over math.

Oh, just noticed this is the 4th vote on me. Not sure what to say about this one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 26, 2021, 03:40:50 pm
Forget waiting.

Vote: gkrieg

He hasn't posted in nearly 48 hours. But his profile says last active on forum at 12:34pm today. He's watching, and just hoping the wagon sways away from him. He's afraid if he says something, it will further incriminate him.

I believe that's X-1.

I'm never scared of saying something. Especially in this case, as I wasn't really incriminated in the first place. People are voting me for two reasons that are easy for me to fix by posting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:44:26 pm
To be honest, I am still a toss-up between iguana and faust.  I was starting to push more toward iguana as I read WCD as scum and saw some of the buddying that she did with iguana.  But that could just be white knighting.

I do think that WCD is scum though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:49:46 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Did you read the context? It should explain it. It feels like you didn't read it, because that was a naked joth vote (which I've already said is scummy) onto a wagon that at the time had 2 people on it (me and Didds) while joth hadn't talked about EFHW at all.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:51:05 pm
I have a funny feeling joth is scum, but I don't believe it. It's too convenient.

I also don't care about this game that much.

Oh, and uh, math has never died D1 as scum. Read the bastard dwarf game if you want to see scum!math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 03:51:59 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Did you read the context? It should explain it. It feels like you didn't read it, because that was a naked joth vote (which I've already said is scummy) onto a wagon that at the time had 2 people on it (me and Didds) while joth hadn't talked about EFHW at all.

No, I get the naked vote.  But at this point all WCD had done was justify why EFHW was scum this game.  I feel like as town you see the naked vote and you think "Yes! Someone finally listened to me!"

As scum, you engage differently.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 03:54:52 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Did you read the context? It should explain it. It feels like you didn't read it, because that was a naked joth vote (which I've already said is scummy) onto a wagon that at the time had 2 people on it (me and Didds) while joth hadn't talked about EFHW at all.

No, I get the naked vote.  But at this point all WCD had done was justify why EFHW was scum this game.  I feel like as town you see the naked vote and you think "Yes! Someone finally listened to me!"

As scum, you engage differently.

That's not how I remember the events surrounding that time. That would be true earlier in the day IIRC.

But eh I don't feel like going all the way back to justify this. I would be much more interested in Didds' interaction with iguana and vice-versa.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 26, 2021, 04:13:27 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Did you read the context? It should explain it. It feels like you didn't read it, because that was a naked joth vote (which I've already said is scummy) onto a wagon that at the time had 2 people on it (me and Didds) while joth hadn't talked about EFHW at all.

No, I get the naked vote.  But at this point all WCD had done was justify why EFHW was scum this game.  I feel like as town you see the naked vote and you think "Yes! Someone finally listened to me!"

As scum, you engage differently.

That's not how I remember the events surrounding that time. That would be true earlier in the day IIRC.

But eh I don't feel like going all the way back to justify this. I would be much more interested in Didds' interaction with iguana and vice-versa.

I mean, I definitely have a different view looking back than in the moment.  But that does not negate my read on the situation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 04:50:15 pm
The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

 (snip)

This feels extremely scummy to me. More specifically, it feels like scum who had moved on from her fake scum read on EFHW but then when reminded about it kept it alive, because you never know when you need to get that mis-exile in. Basically, I don't buy WCD's read on EFHW as being a genuine town reading another player as scum.

vote: WCD

Hmmmm..... you haven't discovered anything here.  I have an intrinsic scum read on her and I am open about that BUT I also fully recognize that it may have more do do with previous games, saltiness, and a genera difference in playstyle so I am trying to stay open to the idea that she is town instead of being stubborn about pushing her.  What I have said, and continue to hold, is that I am in wait-and-see mode on her.  Since we havent had any meaningful flips, this is all read and feels and thinks without any real evidence.

I asked Joth for his reasons to see if he was piling on or if he had scumming reasons. 

So, you are correct. I still have a scum read on her.  There was no fake scum read and I do not have a genuine townread, nor am I pretendinf to.  I am genuinely waiting to decide where she fits once there is actual evidence.

I don't know how you could possibly find my reads on her inauthentic, but that is not something I can argue regardless.  So, okay. 

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 05:09:06 pm

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.

Vote: WestCoastDidds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 05:32:10 pm

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

Vote: joth

Ok, we can just kill scum today. I want to win now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 05:35:37 pm
joth's ISO is literally riddled with scumslips. I've pointed out at least 2.

We could dance with math and gkrieg and exile math, but math is obviously town, gkrieg is obviously town, joth is not town, this should be apparent from just their posts, no need for interactions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 05:51:14 pm
Do you actually think I’m scum? I’m disappointed. I thought you knew me better than that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 05:53:12 pm

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

This kind of passive aggressive clawback from Ms. Positivity is a scum tell, IMO.

Idk what to make of MiX’s reaction unless it’s meant to distract everyone from the WCD wagon before it can get going.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 05:53:36 pm
*clapback, not clawback. Darn autocorrect.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 06:31:40 pm
Do you actually think I’m scum? I’m disappointed. I thought you knew me better than that.

If you keep acting like scum then I kinda have to.

I don't fully believe in any read anyway.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 06:44:46 pm

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

This kind of passive aggressive clawback from Ms. Positivity is a scum tell, IMO.

Idk what to make of MiX’s reaction unless it’s meant to distract everyone from the WCD wagon before it can get going.

There’s no passive aggressiveness, no clawback or otherwise. We need to consolidate votes. Let’s do that. Starting a whole new wagon on me is either begging for us to do something quick and not as well thought out, or he’s gonna camp out and not contribute to an exile. I’m not mad, or even annoyed. I just don’t think it’s helpful to start something new now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 06:46:22 pm
Also, I’m not a paragon of positivity. I’m friendly. There’s a difference.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 07:05:16 pm
Do you actually think I’m scum? I’m disappointed. I thought you knew me better than that.

If you keep acting like scum then I kinda have to.

I don't fully believe in any read anyway.

Yeah, scum loves to start new wagons at the end of the day just when town is consolidating. That’s a thing that only scum does and scum always does.

vote: mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 07:13:40 pm
Is this right? I think so….

Vote Count 2.WCD

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, Joth
jotheonah (2): Swowl, MiX
WCD (1): 2.71828.....
gkrieg13 (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jimmm, mathdude


With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:31:54 pm
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:32:43 pm
joth's ISO is literally riddled with scumslips. I've pointed out at least 2.

We could dance with math and gkrieg and exile math, but math is obviously town, gkrieg is obviously town, joth is not town, this should be apparent from just their posts, no need for interactions.

Can you make an actual organized case?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 08:33:29 pm
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Why is math not an option?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2021, 08:33:38 pm
joth's ISO is literally riddled with scumslips. I've pointed out at least 2.

We could dance with math and gkrieg and exile math, but math is obviously town, gkrieg is obviously town, joth is not town, this should be apparent from just their posts, no need for interactions.

Can you make an actual organized case?

No.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:39:05 pm

This is Jimmmmm assuming that it's TvT if Swowl's scum <snip>

So yeah I think Jimmmmm is right. If you still disagree I think this should be discussed.
This post by Jimmmmm is not relevant. He uses TvT as a hypothetical, as I mentioned earlier. Jimmmmm did ultimately see what I was trying to say. But I don't want to clutter the thread with this further. If you don't agree, that's fine.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 08:39:44 pm
I am willing to move to Joth or mathdude. I’m starting to cycle done for the evening but I’ll be around tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:43:08 pm
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Why is math not an option?

He only has 3 votes. You change your opinion on him every post, though, so maybe at EOD you will be anti-math. I don't know if he is scum anyway. I just think his post was dishonest and that's more likely to come from scum. But I could see town!him not quite understanding how to scumhunt yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 26, 2021, 08:44:32 pm
back from work. and on a sunday the ppe says 96... on sunday.
will read up.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 26, 2021, 08:44:40 pm

Here's joth making the same mistake.  TvT came up a lot previously,  but Jimmmmm and faust spoke hypothetically rather than using  it to describe the theory. Just wondering if Swowl or joth might have scumslipped.

I think this is Swowl saying "Why do you think it was TvT?", and joth replying "This is why I think it was TvT." It's discussing the idea that Swowl is scum who pushed for having the same wagons because they were TvT.

This is accurate, at least it is accurate for me. If I brought up TvT it was because I was responding to the concept of me being skum and it being TVT. My remained on Joth the entire time, obviously I thought it was not TVT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:45:36 pm
mathdude's gkrieg vote is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 08:47:27 pm
mathdude's gkrieg vote is scummy.

Just self-preservation, no?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2021, 08:52:19 pm
mathdude's gkrieg vote is scummy.

Just self-preservation, no?

How is that towny? He isn't anywhere near X-1, yet he puts gkrieg at X-1 for being gkrieg. Why not help himself by offering a different alternative?

I'm getting really cranky and I have work to do. I'll be checking in but I won't be on at deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 26, 2021, 08:54:06 pm
I'm turning out to basically not have time to play today. Girieg said something like there is no case on him, but when he quoted my case on him he quoted only the part where I voted and ignored my actual reread of him where I gave reasons and didn't respond to any of that.

So I am happy to still be voting gkrieg.

People are saying something about WCD being scum and us being buddies and that does not make sense to me at all.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 26, 2021, 08:55:44 pm
Also people keep scumreading me when I am busy IRL and so rushing through my posts. So just keep that in mind people who are scumreading me
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 26, 2021, 09:07:10 pm
mathdude's gkrieg vote is scummy.

Just self-preservation, no?

How is that towny?

It's not, but it's not scummy either.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 26, 2021, 09:09:43 pm
So you end of day follow E to a random attempt at a wagon on WCD....

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.
Followed by blaming mix for trying to squash the last minute WCD wagon...

Vote: WestCoastDidds

Then you call out like the one person we play with that "positivity" is actually not a skum tell for.

Voting for me, today, is a waste and being stubborn about it is scummy.  So, you get to decide how you want to be.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

This kind of passive aggressive clawback from Ms. Positivity is a scum tell, IMO.

Idk what to make of MiX’s reaction unless it’s meant to distract everyone from the WCD wagon before it can get going.


And then you say skum always tries to start a new wagon EOD... right after you attempted to start a new wagon on Didds. And then, after following along with Jimm's logic of MathvJoth being TvT all day... you move to Math.
Do you actually think I’m scum? I’m disappointed. I thought you knew me better than that.

If you keep acting like scum then I kinda have to.

I don't fully believe in any read anyway.

Yeah, scum loves to start new wagons at the end of the day just when town is consolidating. That’s a thing that only scum does and scum always does.

vote: mathdude

How does any of that make sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2021, 09:16:38 pm
Reading the last few pages…. I am still fully committed to getting an exile today but I think we have a better chance of hitting scum with Joth. I’m a bit worried that I’m reacting to him voting for me for a minute, but like I said…I’m around tomorrow

vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 09:52:27 pm

And then you say skum always tries to start a new wagon EOD... right after you attempted to start a new wagon on Didds.

that was sarcasm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 26, 2021, 09:53:18 pm
and I was moving back to math because it's late in the day and I didn't really want to try to start a new wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 26, 2021, 10:03:13 pm
With the Oxygen system fixed, everyone scattered back out through the ship. Cyan noticed that there was one person who didn't never came to the right side of the ship. Why didn't white come make sure the system got fixed??

Vote Count 2.4

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah,
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (4): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm. That is in 17 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 26, 2021, 10:09:56 pm
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 12:17:35 am
Hi! Sorry I wasn't around yesterday. Was helping a friend move, and then distracted by elections.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 12:23:02 am
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2021, 12:23:53 am
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.

My point was that you took a post with helpful content, snipped that content, and then presented what was left as an example of an unhelpful post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 12:26:31 am
I feel a bit talked out... let's look at the vote count.

Vote Count 2.faust

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (2): jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

So deadline is in less than 2 days. We should make sure to actually get an exile. The people who are not on a proper wagon should either move or make a case to convince people. The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.

So you want it to be me/math?
I want it to be you. mathdude would not have been my first choice for an alternate wagon, but what can you do?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 12:33:51 am
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

In a game where we no-exiled D1, the N1 kill was a lurker, and there has been a lot of discussion around several people (faust, joth, math), you want to exile someone because of PoE and XAL? How does my flip help you for the rest of the game?

When I flip town and someone like e is killed in the night, where does that leave town for the rest of the game?
In a better position than if we had exiled an active town player. Exiling people who are active because then there are opinions about them has always been a stupid play that punishes engagement with the game. We made a wagon on you and people have reacted to it, so it's not like we couldn't deduce anything from that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 12:37:35 am
gkrieg's one-line comments about the game are not really doing anything for me. it's the easiest type of content, like reaction videos on YouTube.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2021, 01:09:03 am
Okay, fair point on D2 busy. I am missing the town!joth pushing the game forward bit. Instead he's doing that scummy thing of "wait for it..." and we wait.

I know I am especially suspicious of him because I am townreading so many people and he is on the edge of that (out past the edge are 2.7 and gkrieg). So, while I am not voting for him yet, I think that is probably where I end up. If he's not scum, then at least his flip is informative.  (So freaking smart for scum to off someone whose flip gave us no information at all. Grrrrr.)

Not exactly sure why, but the last parenthetical really seems like Didds waving her fist at herself.

Yeah that does seem a bit much.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2021, 01:18:35 am
I would like to exile gkrieg. This is partially PoE, partially due to the fact that gkrieg hasn't done anything townie all game, and partially due to XAL.

Try as I might, I can't come up with a way to disagree with faust.

In a game where we no-exiled D1, the N1 kill was a lurker, and there has been a lot of discussion around several people (faust, joth, math), you want to exile someone because of PoE and XAL? How does my flip help you for the rest of the game?

When I flip town and someone like e is killed in the night, where does that leave town for the rest of the game?

This is just "I'm Town so don't exile me" and arguing for the least bad misexile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2021, 01:21:09 am
I think a switch to faust could be a good idea.

I'd switch to faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:27:18 am
Okay, Gkrieg reread is the only one I have time for since it's going to be so short:

So his first several posts are meta-related. In a way that just reflects where we were at that stage of the game, but it's also worth noting that it's incredibly easy for scum to give that type of participation and nothing more.

so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

To me, this seems potentially scummy. Partially because I am scumreading EFHW but also because it doesn't strike me as a particularly bold post that you could form a townread off of that. It does look like gkrieg and EFHW could be partners.

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

This is basically gkrieg's only contribution to D2. Just want to say, it is hard to fake changing your reads. Especially so if you are busy and having trouble keeping up as scum. But it is incredibly easy to just post a read, give a reason, then stick with that for the entire game. And that is what gkrieg is doing here so far.

Also, while I initially was townreading gkrieg for his case on Math, I think that because Math is an easy player to pick on, he's an easy target. So I can see the scum narrative there too in terms of trying to pick a town player as scum who looks scummy in order to have a case and look town. And then you naturally end up on someone who is misexiled often.

So, to me, it's not just gkrieg lurking. It's also the content of the lurking.

If this is the case I didn’t respond to then I know why I didn’t respond. I already talked about how changing reads is easy, and ironically, you can see my read change on EFHW throughout D1 if you look at my posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:30:07 am
I'm turning out to basically not have time to play today. Girieg said something like there is no case on him, but when he quoted my case on him he quoted only the part where I voted and ignored my actual reread of him where I gave reasons and didn't respond to any of that.

So I am happy to still be voting gkrieg.

People are saying something about WCD being scum and us being buddies and that does not make sense to me at all.

I’m not sure what part of your voting post I omitted when quoting it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:32:57 am
Vote: gkrieg

I spent my mafia time today looking at comments that faust made on a setup I am trying to open, then came to check the thread. That was a mistake because there is a lot in here that I should respond to and now don't really have time to. I was hoping to do a read through of Swowl, gkrieg, faust, Joth, EFHW, and Math.

That is obviously not going to happen and starting tomorrow I'll be gone for two days. However, I'll be back before deadline and hopefully can do some of that work then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2021, 01:43:28 am
Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

I'm not sure there's anything in this. You generally want people to provide reasons for their votes whether they align with yours or not. Also, I think Didds was looking for feedback on her EFHW read, being someone who often scumreads her. See #504 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877127#msg877127) and #506 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877129#msg877129) where she asks for others' opinions on EFHW. You could maybe make an argument that asking for more opinions on your scumread is scummy, but I don't think how you've described it is accurate.


Quote
This feels extremely scummy to me. More specifically, it feels like scum who had moved on from her fake scum read on EFHW but then when reminded about it kept it alive, because you never know when you need to get that mis-exile in. Basically, I don't buy WCD's read on EFHW as being a genuine town reading another player as scum.

Yeah, this could be something. Didds was pushing for EFHW fairly hard Day 1, and I don't believe she's mentioned her Day 2, except when prompted. She also hasn't seemed to develop a stronger scumread (which would warrant a shift in focus), with her scumreads being expressed as "past the edge of being Townread", "questionable", etc.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 03:03:06 am
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.

Didds, you shouldn't post on other people's accounts.

I don't understand this. What does your vote have to do with me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 03:07:19 am
Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 03:08:32 am

This is Jimmmmm assuming that it's TvT if Swowl's scum <snip>

So yeah I think Jimmmmm is right. If you still disagree I think this should be discussed.
This post by Jimmmmm is not relevant. He uses TvT as a hypothetical, as I mentioned earlier. Jimmmmm did ultimately see what I was trying to say. But I don't want to clutter the thread with this further. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I want to clutter the thread with this. It's part of my scumread on joth. Please, can you explain this in full detail once more so that at least I can understand?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 03:24:48 am
Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?
I mean, it was you who made that third wagon happen, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 03:53:29 am
Anyway uh now we have 3 viable wagons instead of 2. Congratulations everyone.

Now, are we actually going to consolidate?
I mean, it was you who made that third wagon happen, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

There was zero sarcasm in that post. I think that was a good thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 03:58:12 am
Oh. Well alright then. Having 3 viable wagons didn't pan out so well on D1, so I figured you were being sarcastic.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 03:59:05 am
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.

Didds, you shouldn't post on other people's accounts.

I don't understand this. What does your vote have to do with me?
You know how I like to keep you guessing!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 06:58:43 am
^^ all of this is hilarious.

I need to get up and going and drive get to work. I’ll move my vote in a couple of hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 08:16:30 am
I think a switch to faust could be a good idea.

I'd switch to faust.

To coin a phrase, faust is scum but he’s not the exile we need today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 08:17:14 am
(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 08:18:44 am
(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

To be more clear, I don’t currently think he’s actually scum. Not implying an alignment change.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 08:40:33 am
(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

To be more clear, I don’t currently think he’s actually scum. Not implying an alignment change.

Why couldn't you be town, joth :(

(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)

Who do you think is scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 08:43:37 am
(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)
How am I wrong? Do you think gkrieg is town? If so, why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 09:04:04 am
(I don’t actually think he’s scum currently. I think he and MiX are annoyingly wrong town together.)
How am I wrong? Do you think gkrieg is town? If so, why?

Because there is absolutely no good reason to think he's scum.

I am about ready to move to him just because I'd rather the exile not be me, but I really dislike the wagon.  It's a lazy nothing wagon. I guess he could be scum. But idk  why people don't see that Swowl is just the same exile but better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 09:20:24 am
But idk  why people don't see that Swowl is just the same exile but better.
If you believe that I am town then you should also believe that I have a good reason to call Swowl town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 09:24:12 am
Day 2 vote counts, extended... as of 6 hours to deadline:

Vote Count 2.1
mathdude (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
MiX (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (1): mathdude
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds

mathdude: MiX, 2.71
MiX: joth
joth: Swowl, faust
faust: math, iguana

mathdude: MiX, 2.71, EFHW
MiX: joth
joth: Swowl, faust
faust: iguana

Vote Count 2.2
mathdude (2): MiX, EFHW
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (2): , iguanaiguana, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, mathdude, jotheonah

mathdude: MiX, EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana
iguana: 2.71
2.71: faust

mathdude: MiX, EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana, 2.71
2.71: faust

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana, 2.71
gkrieg: faust, WCD, MiX
iguana: math

Vote Count 2.3
mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg, MiX, joth
joth: Swowl
gkrieg: faust, WCD, iguana, Jim, math
WCD: 2.71

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl, MiX
gkrieg: faust, WCD, iguana, Jim, math
WCD: 2.71, joth

Vote Count 2.4
mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah,
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (4): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (0):


For reference, here was the D1 extended vote counts:
-snip-
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 09:25:02 am
On D1:
joth was up to 3 votes once, 5 votes once
EFHW was up to 4 votes twice
Jim was up to 4 votes three times
math was up to 5 votes once
I don't believe any others were ever above 2 votes.
These 3 had no votes on them: 2.71, WCD, Swowl

On D2:
math was up to 3 votes a few times, 4 votes 2 different times, now at 3
gkrieg was up to 3 votes once, then up to 5 once, now at 4
joth is now up to 3 votes
I don't believe any others were ever above 2 votes.
These 2 had no votes on them D2 yet: EFHW, Jim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 09:30:42 am
Alright, well I would like to get claims and other X-1 shenanigans out of the way sooner rather than later and I would like to save my own hide which I'm increasingly concerned about and I guess if I'm going to townread faust then I suppose I can also sheep him so, though it pains me to do so, and though I suspect this preamble is going to look scummy if gkrieg flips town and my whole day will look scummy if he flips scum, which is going to make for a rough day 3 in any case,


vote: gkrieg

sigh.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 09:34:15 am
On D2:

MiX has voted for: math, gkrieg, math, joth
2.71 has voted for: math, faust, iguana, faust, WCD
joth has voted for: MiX, Swowl, math, WCD, math
Swowl has voted for: joth
faust has voted for: joth, 2.71, gkrieg
math has voted for: faust, iguana, gkrieg
iguana has voted for: faust, gkrieg
EFHW has voted for: math
gkrieg has voted for: math
WCD has voted for: gkrieg, joth
Jim has voted for: gkrieg


For reference, here was the D1 vote summaries:
-snip-

PPE: 1
(joth changing vote - is not included in this)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 09:35:32 am
Intent to hammer gkrieg at my lunch break (1:15 forum time)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 09:38:43 am
Player     Vote     Last post (time before deadline)     Wagons at time of last post     Ability to change vote before deadline     Willingness to change vote
MiXjothAround at deadline     math 5, joth 4YesUnwilling to move to mathdude
SwowljothAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesDid not move to mathdude, but later indicated he tried to but was late
EFHWmathAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesYes
iguanamath30 minutesmath 4, joth 4, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to being pulled away, and then was late     Indicated willing to avoid nexile
gkriegmath45 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated likely inabilityjoth yes, Jim no
emath55 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationjoth yes, Jim no
faustjoth1 hourmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated he tried to but was lateNo indication
mathJim1.5 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationPresumed willing due to self-preservation
Jimmath3 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Inability due to timezonesNo indication
jothJim3 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to RL stuff     Presumed willing due to self-preservation
Diddsjoth3.5 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Unsure due to going to the lakeYes

Just bringing this table back up for information now near EoD2... maybe this, combined with all the vote info I've summarized can help us sort some stuff out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2021, 09:44:16 am
Black and Orange decided to stick together after fixing the right side Oxygen tank and walked down towards shields. Orange paused thinking they heard the sound of rustling in the hallway vent, but they shrugged it off. Surely it was nothing.

Vote Count 2.5

mathdude (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (5): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm. That is in just over 5 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 27, 2021, 09:55:41 am
Jim has voted for: gkrieg

Also Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 10:09:24 am
Math, any conclusions from those votes?

Cause just throwing stuff out there is very scum indicative.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 10:10:02 am
Intent to hammer gkrieg at my lunch break (1:15 forum time)

If you don't really want joth, then

Vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 10:11:12 am
Alright, well I would like to get claims and other X-1 shenanigans out of the way sooner rather than later and I would like to save my own hide which I'm increasingly concerned about and I guess if I'm going to townread faust then I suppose I can also sheep him so, though it pains me to do so, and though I suspect this preamble is going to look scummy if gkrieg flips town and my whole day will look scummy if he flips scum, which is going to make for a rough day 3 in any case,


vote: gkrieg

sigh.

Sorry for distrusting you joth, I just can't accept misreading you ever.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 10:50:45 am
Alright, well I would like to get claims and other X-1 shenanigans out of the way sooner rather than later and I would like to save my own hide which I'm increasingly concerned about and I guess if I'm going to townread faust then I suppose I can also sheep him so, though it pains me to do so, and though I suspect this preamble is going to look scummy if gkrieg flips town and my whole day will look scummy if he flips scum, which is going to make for a rough day 3 in any case,


vote: gkrieg

sigh.

Sorry for distrusting you joth, I just can't accept misreading you ever.

Then stop doing it, my dude.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 10:54:10 am
Jim has voted for: gkrieg

Also Swowl.

You are correct... obviously.  Guess I missed it.  It happened shortly after official Vote Count 2.3, a couple days before you voted on gkrieg and stayed there.  I don't think it's worth reposting the big list and correcting that though... it's a small datapoint that doesn't seem that relevant, IMO.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 11:06:31 am
Math, any conclusions from those votes?

Cause just throwing stuff out there is very scum indicative.

My biggest "conclusion" is a question... why haven't we been able to consolidate and get a hammer off in nearly 2 days yet?  I'm fairly confident we will today, but it sounds like it might take some concessions.  There are some serious polarizing views, like "I won't vote ..." or "this person is scum", which is very helpful... unless we don't get the hammer.

So did we fail to hammer (or even get within X-1) D1 because scum wanted to keep everything in the dark?  I doubt it... an extra town death is helpful for them.
Was it because town didn't want to pull the trigger and look scummy if the flip ends up town?  That might be a possibility if we got to X-1 a few times.
Was it due to poor timing and inactivity?  I suspect this is more likely.  We waited too long and there weren't enough (or the right) people online near deadline.

Where are we at today?  4 hours to deadline.  We do have X-1 on gkrieg.  We have some people unwilling to vote there.  We still have a split between me and joth for currently preventing a second viable wagon.

I think we do flip gkrieg today.  His lurkiness and short bursts of participating may be par for his game, but they're also easy to mimic as scum.  We have polarizing opinions on him.  That helps tomorrow regardless, but when he flips scum, I think we're well on our way to finding partners.

If for some reason votes on him stall, it might make sense to flip me.  I have nothing "useful" to offer, other than the fact that I'm active.  There are enough reads on me, it would still help tomorrow.  The problem is, then we're another person behind in the game, and closer to scum endgaming us.

Also... "just throwing stuff out there" may be scum indicative if you do it, MiX.  But this is what I've got available, so this is what I post.  Until we start seeing useful flips, I don't have much for reads.  I can say "I see this and this happening", but I can't say "gkrieg did this D1 here, and in past games he normally does this instead if he's town", because I don't know much about his past games.  Once we see flips, I'll be able to look back at my summary posts here, if I'm still alive, and hopefully start putting some pieces together.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 11:11:20 am
A few more comments about the vote summaries I've listed...

On D2, MiX, e, and joth have all voted 5 times (MiX has for me 3 of those, the others have for 4 or 5 different people).  I get that this feels like D1 again.  But as a whole, we've been mostly consolidated.  Are these just ways for these 3 to prompt discussion beginning of D2?  Or are they looking around to see if anything will stick... scummy?

If we were going to have a 3rd viable wagon today, I would rather it have been faust instead of joth.  I think there had been enough interest expressed by a few people who would jump there (myself included), but no one ended up pulling the trigger and starting that wagon.  Going to re-read joth now, just because.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2021, 11:14:46 am
vote: Didds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 11:16:29 am
It seems joth has a lot more strong opinions about others than I remember others having about him.  I feel it's better to get a read on joth once we get a flip or two (from people he's commented about), rather than flipping him to try and use that to get reads on others.  If he's scum, it will come out soon, whether one of his strong townreads flips scum, or something else.  gkrieg has more people having opinions about him.  They both have made posts that can very easily fit the scum narrative, but I'd rather keep my vote on gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 11:17:17 am
vote: Didds

How is this helpful, less than 4 hours to deadline... without any reasons telling others why they should join?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 11:28:48 am
vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 11:29:38 am
It seems joth has a lot more strong opinions about others than I remember others having about him.  I feel it's better to get a read on joth once we get a flip or two (from people he's commented about), rather than flipping him to try and use that to get reads on others.  If he's scum, it will come out soon, whether one of his strong townreads flips scum, or something else.  gkrieg has more people having opinions about him.  They both have made posts that can very easily fit the scum narrative, but I'd rather keep my vote on gkrieg.

But wasn’t your post on me self preservation? Which isn’t necessary anymore?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 11:32:31 am
Just saw Didds intent. I’m VT
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 11:50:34 am
vote: faust
I'm sure you have some solid reasoning behind that considering how annoyed you were by the votes on you that didn't have reasoning.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:15:23 pm
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 27, 2021, 12:25:34 pm
vote: faust

Hmmm

2.5 hours to go and gkrieg is acting like wants to be exiled.

At least, not joining a viable alternative
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:35:25 pm
I am starting to become worried about Joth. MiX has mentioned scumslips from Joth and this one was brought up:

I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

So if I'm parsing MiX right, this is a scumslip because Joth says in (in one frame of mind) "all three scum are active and good at the game" -- He's telling a truth here at least about himself. He's proud of his high activity scum play, which is markedly different from many (but not all) of his scum games and considers that he's playing this game well so far.

Then he slips back into his deception mode, and considers what his fake scumreads should be. He lands on Swowl, who he feels others think should be scummy. And doesn't notice that he's made a contradiction in that he just said "all three scum are active" and switched to calling his top scumread, who has not been at all active.

So if that is actually a scumslip, it's sort of a convoluted one? But it's one that I can at least understand, which is more than I can say about many scumslip arguments.

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 12:48:28 pm
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 12:49:35 pm
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:51:59 pm
I'm not willing to vote gkrieg. And I think his wagon is scummy.

I'm really surprised there was no response from mathdude about my comments on his wall post.

I don't like my options here. I know we're all about consolidating, but if math isn't going to be an option then I'm leaning toward faust or Didds or MiX or Jimmmmm.

Reply to wall post... sort of.

I didn't think there was much there to respond to... the only main issue you seemed to have was that I skipped stuff and you thought I skipped the good stuff. There was a lot of posts I was quoting and responding to doing the reread. I had to pick some to skip. I kept the ones that stood out to me as I skimmed through. Even 1 or 2 of the long ones, I snipped, yes. I admit (and admitted at the time), I don't/didn't have a closed, condemning case. I was just providing my thoughts as I reread. Of course we would see the importance of some statements differ. That's part of the game.

My point was that you took a post with helpful content, snipped that content, and then presented what was left as an example of an unhelpful post.

And Math's point is that he found me wordy (true) and snipped out half of my post because he felt it was repetitive. If you look back on his comments, he wasn't cutting out a portion of my case so as to make it look like a weaker case. He was highlighting a portion of my reread of Joth because he wanted to highlight that I was townreading Joth and that we could be buddies.

To me, it makes sense that Math would have been suspicious of me because 1) I pushed his wagon all of D1 and 2) I pushed against Joth's wagon D1. Joth was the main D1 alternative wagon to him, so people who both rejected that wagon and pushed his wagon are going to look scummy to him.

So yeah at first when I looked at what you called the snipping distortion that you pointed out, I thought it looked bad. But actually... He never said I didn't give reasons. He accused me of buddying Joth. And if buddying Joth was what he was seeing, there was evidence for that both in the part he snipped and the part he left.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:53:50 pm
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:55:06 pm
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

That is a minor point about you. I thought you were scummy when I was closer to null on Joth as well.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 12:55:24 pm
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

So next time I'm not engaged in a game and have a wagon on me, I just shouldn't try to post anything because it has no chance of changing people's minds because it was written under pressure?

Cool. What a colossal waste of my time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:56:27 pm
-snip-

My read on EFHW has changed.  -snip-

You've mentioned this several times, but where in the thread, before you were at X-1, can we even see that? Mostly what I've seen is that you defended EFHW and EFHW defended you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 12:57:24 pm
Finally at a computer and able to look at the game carefully. It looks like gkrieg is about to be hammered?


Ugh, I just posted something long in relation to this post and then closed the window... stupid PPEs.

Anyway, it is easy for someone to change their reads. Everyone posts townie and scummy things, so you just cherrypick one of their posts and say it has changed your reads. Especially when there haven't been many flips.

At that point, math still hadn't done anything that screamed town to me, and a vote on someone is better than no vote.

Okay, so I see here you actually did respond to my read of you, actually you did twice now because I called you out for not doing that. But to me, the issue is--yes it's easy to fake changing your reads, but also it's even easier to fake keeping your reads the same when you don't even give reasons for any of those reads. And that was your D2 up to the point that you got pressure on you.

It's absurd for you in a way to be arguing that all of the cases against you are so flimsy. The cases on you are based on very little because you said very little until you had four votes on you. But that in itself is scummy.

My read on EFHW has changed. You are taking only my read on mathdude as not changing.

What do you think about any of my recent posts? Do they not matter?

I think they matter less unfortunately because they were written under pressure and I think you can create something convincing under pressure when necessary. I also didn't see anything in there that surprised me or caused me to re-assess my opinion on how you are seeing things this game.

So next time I'm not engaged in a game and have a wagon on me, I just shouldn't try to post anything because it has no chance of changing people's minds because it was written under pressure?

Cool. What a colossal waste of my time.

No, maybe next time don't lurk until you're at X-1 though?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 12:57:53 pm
Howdy hey… we have two hours?

Are we still thinking gkrieg? Iguana, it looks like you’re rethinking?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 12:58:02 pm
Didds, please do the honors.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 12:58:29 pm
Next time I will just not come back into the thread to engage.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 12:59:07 pm
I am starting to become worried about Joth. MiX has mentioned scumslips from Joth and this one was brought up:

I think all three scum are active and they’re just, idk, good at the game.

I really think Swowl is likely to be scum. But in the name of consolidation I’m moving to vote: mathdude who I at least think is more likely to be scum than gkrieg.

I would also switch to faust if that got viable. He’s being intentionally obtuse about this gkrieg/Swowl thing in a way that I don’t think town!faust does unless he knows something.


As for the TvT thing I think I just got swept up in a shorthand everyone else was using without really thinking about it. It was somewhat unclear I’ll admit.

So if I'm parsing MiX right, this is a scumslip because Joth says in (in one frame of mind) "all three scum are active and good at the game" -- He's telling a truth here at least about himself. He's proud of his high activity scum play, which is markedly different from many (but not all) of his scum games and considers that he's playing this game well so far.

Then he slips back into his deception mode, and considers what his fake scumreads should be. He lands on Swowl, who he feels others think should be scummy. And doesn't notice that he's made a contradiction in that he just said "all three scum are active" and switched to calling his top scumread, who has not been at all active.

So if that is actually a scumslip, it's sort of a convoluted one? But it's one that I can at least understand, which is more than I can say about many scumslip arguments.

Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

But Swowl has been active day 2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 12:59:20 pm
MIX, what’s you’re thinking?

PPE: some
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:00:54 pm
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:02:53 pm
Howdy hey… we have two hours?

Are we still thinking gkrieg? Iguana, it looks like you’re rethinking?

No, I think gkrieg is our best shot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:05:39 pm
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.

??? Swowl has the lowest # of posts in the thread, I just checked.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:06:05 pm
gkrieg's frustration here is relatable, but not alignment indicative. I could see this coming from scum or town.

the VT claim from gkrieg is pretty towny. all other things equal, scum should claim a PR at X1 so they can at worst get a counterclaim out of their exile and at best buy another day. That's best play in most cases.

scum!gkrieg should only claim VT if he thinks that it will somehow get him off the hook, and there was no indication here that it would. Doesn't that give anyone else pause?

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:06:51 pm
Considering that Joth may be scum is one of the things that makes me feel good about a gkrieg exile today because I do think they could be partners. In that, if Joth is scum, his partners would have been much more likely to be on the math wagon yesterday. And we would also be looking for someone who continued to push Math over Joth the following day. And gkrieg is the main person who fits that description.

Exiling someone because you think another non-flipped person is scummy is also not a great reason.

yeah I'm sorry I think my defense of you may have done more harm than good. to both of us.

??? Swowl has the lowest # of posts in the thread, I just checked.

So now you'll vote for him right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:09:39 pm
(just unvoting because I don't want Didds to hammer before someone replies to my post about the claim)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:10:02 pm
I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:12:09 pm
I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.

You really think that faust's reads are that good that you form your opinions based on his reads? And you are that sure about him being town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:12:18 pm
My reaction to VT was that it gave no indication it would come from scum because I've seen scum claim VT at X-1 a million times.

So I don't really know what to make of your argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:12:52 pm
I quoted the wrong Joth post there. I meant to quote him saying Swowl has been active D2.

I don't know if I would vote Swowl. faust made sure that was not a viable wagon today. I don't think I like voting Swowl when faust is saying that it's a bad choice. That could definitely change with my opinion of faust though.

You really think that faust's reads are that good that you form your opinions based on his reads? And you are that sure about him being town?

No, I'm not sure about faust being town. But I also don't really want to talk about this more right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:13:13 pm
My reaction to VT was that it gave no indication it would not come from scum because I've seen scum claim VT at X-1 a million times.

So I don't really know what to make of your argument.

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:16:45 pm
I've seen scum claim VT at X-1 a million times.

Ok. Name 3.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:17:29 pm
I haven't played a normal game in three years lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 01:18:01 pm
But Swowl has been active day 2.

More active than he was on D1 does not necessarily mean we call him active D2.  I feel Swowl is still one of the least active here today.  Like gkrieg, he shows up once in a while, makes a whole bunch of posts (presumably from catching up, and replying to everything at once), then disappears again for a while.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:19:30 pm
FWIW, joth seems townie to me. He is not doing any of the things people have said that scum!joth do (fade into the background, interact with people without actually making reads).

Math is still very scummy to me. He keeps posting things for other people to analyze, trying to look townie without actually pushing people.

EFHW is probably town here, she is fading into the background and will likely be left alive at the end of the game and will make the correct decision for town.

iguana is also town. His reads are not good and he is being very stubborn about them.

MiX may be scum. He hasn't really been pushed very much, and has weirdly been in the background. His responses to people have been much more terse than usual I think.

I actually think that faust is also likely town, and just adding to his horrible track record of reading me incorrectly.

Didds is also another person I would look toward as scum. Not exactly sure why.

e is playing very differently from the last game I was in with him. Not sure about him yet.

Jimmmm could also be scum.

My random called-on-D1-basically scum team is Didds/math/MiX, with Jimmmmmm as first alternate and e as second alternate. Faust could also be scum, but I'm not sure yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:20:30 pm
Oops, forgot about Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:20:58 pm
Oops, forgot about Swowl.

Swowl takes the first alternate position, Jimmmm gets moved to second alternate, e gets moved off the team.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 01:24:52 pm
gkrieg's frustration here is relatable, but not alignment indicative. I could see this coming from scum or town.

the VT claim from gkrieg is pretty towny. all other things equal, scum should claim a PR at X1 so they can at worst get a counterclaim out of their exile and at best buy another day. That's best play in most cases.

scum!gkrieg should only claim VT if he thinks that it will somehow get him off the hook, and there was no indication here that it would. Doesn't that give anyone else pause?

Unvote

I agree his claim wasn't alignment indicative.  Given the potential in the setup, if he's scum, he could go either way.  And regardless of whether he tries to claim PR for counterclaim or claim VT, it's WIFOM.  Also, I don't even see that a counterclaim would happen, since there are potentials in this setup for multiples of the same roles, unless I'm missing something.  Maybe his VT was exactly calculated to get your reaction... or maybe you're his partner, and are using a last-ditch effort to try and save him.

Regardless, it's all relatively useless, since he's purely defensive at the moment.

Even his "final reads" post is WIFOM.  If he flips town, then at least that's useful (more useful than LL left us yesterday!).  If he flips scum, then we basically don't read anything he said, since he's trying to manipulate us with it... it will be full of half-truths, half-lies, some full truths, and some flat out lies.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:26:26 pm
experience shows me that if he's town we'll ignore it anyway
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:27:02 pm
alright, I'll face the facts that we're not going to get a different exile off in the next  1.5 hours.

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:33:31 pm
hammer hammer hammer
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 01:37:32 pm
I’m back.

Are we ready?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:38:01 pm
I'm not feeling great about it but sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:39:52 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:42:30 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?

Sure.

faust made a bad suggestion
everyone else got onboard for some reason
a few of us tried to steer us to other places but nobody listened to us and everybody scumread us
I finally relented out of self-preservation and resignation
we're about to hammer someone who's I'd say 70/30 to be town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:43:16 pm
I should be more positive. maybe we'll get lucky.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2021, 01:43:53 pm
vote: Didds

How is this helpful, less than 4 hours to deadline... without any reasons telling others why they should join?
There has been recent interest expressed in a Didds exile and I disagree with the gkrieg wagon. This frees me up to vote wherever I want, since I know I won't be voting for him. Her intent to hammer was scummy because there is no case. She seems to be doing what other people want without having any strong feeling about gkrieg herself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:44:32 pm
vote: Didds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:44:52 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?

Sure.

faust made a bad suggestion
everyone else got onboard for some reason
a few of us tried to steer us to other places but nobody listened to us and everybody scumread us
I finally relented out of self-preservation and resignation
we're about to hammer someone who's I'd say 70/30 to be town

Dayvig: joth

Can anyone else give me a summary of events?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:45:00 pm
I sit here and I write the case and I write the case and people keep saying there is no case. Sorry, but that's scummy too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:45:17 pm
vote: Didds

Intent to hammer
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:45:47 pm
vote: Didds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:45:54 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?

Sure.

faust made a bad suggestion
everyone else got onboard for some reason
a few of us tried to steer us to other places but nobody listened to us and everybody scumread us
I finally relented out of self-preservation and resignation
we're about to hammer someone who's I'd say 70/30 to be town

Dayvig: joth

Can anyone else give me a summary of events?

I argued a lot with gkrieg and he pushed me really hard to back off my read. I continued to feel good about it. Joth and EFHW came in to try to save gkrieg. gkrieg claimed VT and Joth said "claiming VT at X-1 makes you town."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:46:23 pm
I sit here and I write the case and I write the case and people keep saying there is no case. Sorry, but that's scummy too.

it's because the case is bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 01:46:45 pm
vote: Didds

How is this helpful, less than 4 hours to deadline... without any reasons telling others why they should join?
There has been recent interest expressed in a Didds exile and I disagree with the gkrieg wagon. This frees me up to vote wherever I want, since I know I won't be voting for him. Her intent to hammer was scummy because there is no case. She seems to be doing what other people want without having any strong feeling about gkrieg herself.

I think there had been much more interest expressed in voting faust, rather than Didds. If you wanted to swing votes somewhere else, I think that would have been a more likely spot.

PPE... turns out I was wrong.  There seems to be a huge last-minute swing towards Didds now.  Why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:46:58 pm
Didds is obviously town you dumb-dumbs.

How's vote count?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:47:23 pm
the case against gkreig is 40% policy exile, 30% laziness, and 30% confirmation bias. It's a nothing burger.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:47:37 pm
alright, I'll face the facts that we're not going to get a different exile off in the next  1.5 hours.

vote: gkrieg

Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 01:48:23 pm
I think that’s 4 e, EFHW, Joth, gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:48:37 pm
Gkrieg has to be scum here.

You can hammer him now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:49:00 pm
gkrieg is at X-1. Didds has four votes and I don't know about the rest because they're all old.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 01:49:08 pm
Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:49:22 pm
Didds has been off all game honestly. More aggressive and less cautious than usual. Reads not as well backed up as usual.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 01:49:27 pm
I actually think that faust is also likely town, and just adding to his horrible track record of reading me incorrectly.
Lol this comes from the dude who tried ot start a last-minute wagon on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:49:30 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 27, 2021, 01:49:48 pm
Didds has been off all game honestly. More aggressive and less cautious than usual. Reads not as well backed up as usual.
Yeah that's not scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:50:13 pm
I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?

I don't think you can get a summary of events before the hammer anymore, no.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:50:28 pm
I haven't even read a whole page of posts.

Well, good night. Let's hope gkrieg is scum.

I'm here.

Before you hammer, can I get a summary of events?

I don't think you can get a summary of events before the hammer anymore, no.

Haha.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 01:50:44 pm
Didds has been off all game honestly. More aggressive and less cautious than usual. Reads not as well backed up as usual.

Not wrong, but not scum
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:51:05 pm
Didds has been off all game honestly. More aggressive and less cautious than usual. Reads not as well backed up as usual.
Yeah that's not scummy.

It's outside her town meta. Better than gkrieg, who is exactly inside his town meta.

Gkrieg has to be scum here.

absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:51:28 pm
dayvig: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:51:54 pm
I'm town, but I'm just happy this is over. Biggest waste of time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:52:20 pm
I seriously doubt we have two dayvigs but if all three of you would flip at once, it would actually be super helpful.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:52:31 pm
I'm town, but I'm just happy this is over. Biggest waste of time.

I'm shocked. Utterly shocked. FML.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 01:52:55 pm
I actually think that faust is also likely town, and just adding to his horrible track record of reading me incorrectly.
Lol this comes from the dude who tried ot start a last-minute wagon on me.

Seemed like the only thing that could get traction, and you somehow will escape any scrutiny for misexiling me once again as town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:53:41 pm
I seriously doubt we have two dayvigs but if all three of you would flip at once, it would actually be super helpful.

There are no dayvigs in this setup.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:54:10 pm
I actually think that faust is also likely town, and just adding to his horrible track record of reading me incorrectly.
Lol this comes from the dude who tried ot start a last-minute wagon on me.

Seemed like the only thing that could get traction, and you somehow will escape any scrutiny for misexiling me once again as town.

Joth and math were alternatives.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:54:20 pm
I seriously doubt we have two dayvigs but if all three of you would flip at once, it would actually be super helpful.

There are no dayvigs in this setup.

It's a joke
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 01:54:34 pm
Vote: gkrieg

I believe this is hammer.

My count:

jotheonah (1): Swowl
gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguana, Jim, math, MiX, WCD
WestCoastDidds (4): 2.71, EFHW, gkrieg, joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 01:54:44 pm
Still a little bit hoping that gkrieg is just lying.......
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:55:31 pm
We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:56:05 pm
I seriously doubt we have two dayvigs but if all three of you would flip at once, it would actually be super helpful.

There are no dayvigs in this setup.

It's a joke

Just had to make sure.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

No, we'll decide when it comes to that. Tonight a lot can happen.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 01:57:07 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:58:38 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

The wagon is trash and once again scum is always in math/joth. They dodged the exile today for no reason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 27, 2021, 01:58:49 pm
We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

No, we'll decide when it comes to that. Tonight a lot can happen.

Agree with MiX.  This is a big leap, joth, assuming there will be no successful doctors, roleblockers, or vigilantes (if any are in the setup) tonight.  Also, even cop results may be helpful, standalone, without a massclaim.  We will see what D3 brings.  Don't start hedging already.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 01:59:17 pm
It is more likely that my wagon is riddled with scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 01:59:40 pm
We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

No, we'll decide when it comes to that. Tonight a lot can happen.

Agree with MiX.  This is a big leap, joth, assuming there will be no successful doctors, roleblockers, or vigilantes (if any are in the setup) tonight.  Also, even cop results may be helpful, standalone, without a massclaim.  We will see what D3 brings.  Don't start hedging already.

Mathdude, joth, vig each other, thank you.

It is more likely that my wagon is riddled with scum.

If gkrieg is town I doubt it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 02:00:38 pm
It is more likely that my wagon is riddled with scum.

But that would mean that only town exiled me, which would just be so much worse.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:01:51 pm
It is more likely that my wagon is riddled with scum.

lolol. yes, as I said before, with no sarcasm and all seriousness, it is always scum who try to derail the wagon last minute, especially when the wagon is on town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 02:02:08 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

The wagon is trash and once again scum is always in math/joth. They dodged the exile today for no reason.

You understand that you were on the wagon right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:02:38 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

The wagon is trash and once again scum is always in math/joth. They dodged the exile today for no reason.

You understand that you were on the wagon right?

Only because you didn't vote math or joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 02:02:50 pm

It is more likely that my wagon is riddled with scum.

If gkrieg is town I doubt it.

Good point
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:03:01 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

The wagon is trash and once again scum is always in math/joth. They dodged the exile today for no reason.

You understand that you were on the wagon right?

I was not. I moved back to Didds again. I think. I went back and forth a lot of times.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:04:29 pm
MiX, I don't get you. Does the fact that you were wrong here not introduce any trace of humility, any inclination to re-examine whether you might be wrong about other things? Or do you just want to keep bull-headedly leading town down the same wrong path until we lose? Or are you just scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 02:05:54 pm
Well, like every other towns person who has had a wagon on them it is inconceivable to me that town is trying to boot me out!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:07:03 pm
MiX, I don't get you. Does the fact that you were wrong here not introduce any trace of humility, any inclination to re-examine whether you might be wrong about other things? Or do you just want to keep bull-headedly leading town down the same wrong path until we lose? Or are you just scum?

Excuse me? I voted gkrieg for like 10 minutes before today, and I just didn't want Didds to have to claim for no reason whatsoever. The case on her is even worse than the case on gkrieg, which is saying a lot when there's no case on gkrieg to begin with.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:07:22 pm
Didds' reaction to the last-minute wagon on her is worth a look too. I don't think she professed her towniness one time. She just expressed indignation at it and tried to ward it off on pragmatic terms (only existing wagons are viable). That doesn't jibe with my understanding of town Didds.

And the fact that MiX really wanted to get the hammer in before we could affectively course change (which we almost did) should also make us strongly consider him tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:08:26 pm
Didds' reaction to the last-minute wagon on her is worth a look too. I don't think she professed her towniness one time. She just expressed indignation at it and tried to ward it off on pragmatic terms (only existing wagons are viable). That doesn't jibe with my understanding of town Didds.

And the fact that MiX really wanted to get the hammer in before we could affectively course change (which we almost did) should also make us strongly consider him tomorrow.

The CFD was anti-town. Not going to math or joth would never, ever, flip scum. And Didds is townie, so what the hell.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:09:09 pm
Sorry, I'm being too salty here.

I like you guys, I don't want to be mean to you.

Tomorrow will be great. We'll have lots of info to work with.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:09:56 pm
Not going to math or joth would never, ever, flip scum.

This is provably, objectively untrue since there are three scum and only two of me and math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:11:29 pm
Not going to math or joth would never, ever, flip scum.

This is provably, objectively untrue since there are three scum and only two of me and math.

Well...not if you, math and gkrieg are all scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:12:35 pm
Not going to math or joth would never, ever, flip scum.

This is provably, objectively untrue since there are three scum and only two of me and math.

Well...not if you, math and gkrieg are all scum.

Well if that turns out to be the case, shame on gkrieg for trolling, shame on me for trolling, and good for you for catching the whole scum team and winning the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 27, 2021, 02:13:52 pm
Here. And glancing doesn’t look like I need to be. Are we done for the day?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:14:37 pm
Not going to math or joth would never, ever, flip scum.

This is provably, objectively untrue since there are three scum and only two of me and math.

Well...not if you, math and gkrieg are all scum.

Well if that turns out to be the case, shame on gkrieg for trolling, shame on me for trolling, and good for you for catching the whole scum team and winning the game.

...which is why it doesn't matter if things are objectively untrue, what matters is what things might as well be true because otherwise the game's a lock.

For example, if scum helps town CFD onto a scum partner for no reason, then yes, scum can flip, but why would they do that.

Here. And glancing doesn’t look like I need to be. Are we done for the day?

Unvote

Probably.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 02:14:43 pm
Joth is being really self righteous : ( Also scum often claims town after an exile because it can throw off exactly these kinds of twilight discussions. So there is absolutely still a chance that gkrieg is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 02:18:15 pm
What's a CFD?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:20:28 pm
Is it okay to be disappointed in Dylan not being here to close the thread instantly like before?

What's a CFD?

Chinese Fire Drill; in mafia, it means building up a new wagon quickly near deadline, kinda what was going to happen with Didds today.

Surely someone else can explain it better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:23:40 pm
Joth is being really self righteous :

I'm just frustrated because I spent all day yelling "gkrieg is town". It's frustrating when you're good at the figuring-it-out part of mafia but bad at the convincing-others part.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2021, 02:25:17 pm
Joth is being really self righteous :

I'm just frustrated because I spent all day yelling "gkrieg is town". It's frustrating when you're good at the figuring-it-out part of mafia but bad at the convincing-others part.

Why were you not parked on math then?

You moved to Swowl and stuff, right, but if you really wanted to save gkrieg, you would've pushed for math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 27, 2021, 02:25:57 pm
Is it okay to be disappointed in Dylan not being here to close the thread instantly like before?

What's a CFD?

Chinese Fire Drill; in mafia, it means building up a new wagon quickly near deadline, kinda what was going to happen with Didds today.

Surely someone else can explain it better.

Oh, no I get it. In garbage truck driver language, (I spent two years as a garbage truck driver) it's when the guy teaching you how to drive a truck yells that at a stoplight, gets out of the truck, and you have to quickly figure out that he wants you to get out of the passenger side and take over driving right then and there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 27, 2021, 02:27:28 pm
Joth is being really self righteous :

I'm just frustrated because I spent all day yelling "gkrieg is town". It's frustrating when you're good at the figuring-it-out part of mafia but bad at the convincing-others part.

Why were you not parked on math then?

You moved to Swowl and stuff, right, but if you really wanted to save gkrieg, you would've pushed for math.

I was parked on him for a while. But I'm not particularly sold on math either! I don't understand why you want to artificially constrain the scum pool so much, but it's not towny.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2021, 02:32:31 pm
Next time I will just not come back into the thread to engage.

If this is scum-driven then does that make a difference?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2021, 02:36:53 pm

What's a CFD?

Chinese Fire Drill; in mafia, it means building up a new wagon quickly near deadline, kinda what was going to happen with Didds today.

Surely someone else can explain it better.

That's an unusually apt metaphor
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 02:37:35 pm
Next time I will just not come back into the thread to engage.

If this is scum-driven then does that make a difference?

Maybe if all three scum are on, but otherwise not really.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 27, 2021, 02:38:51 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

The wagon is trash and once again scum is always in math/joth. They dodged the exile today for no reason.

You understand that you were on the wagon right?

Only because you didn't vote math or joth.

I was the last person to leave the math wagon. This is just the dumbest reason so far.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2021, 03:00:52 pm
Thread locked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2021, 03:06:53 pm
*HOOONK* Once again, someone decided to call for an emergency meeting. This time, the paranoia that somebody wasn't really doing their tasks got the better of the crew...

gkrieg13 has been exiled. They were a Crew-Aligned Vanilla Townie.

Vote Count 2.Final

jotheonah (1): Swowl
gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, MiX, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it took 6 to exile. Night 2 will end Wednesday, September 29, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2021, 03:09:51 pm
The ship was making progess, as tasks were being completed, and people were starting to pair up and find people they were comfortable walking around with. That's when Orange and Brown walked in to admin and found a body. Poor White...

EFHW has been killed. They were a Crew-Aligned 1-shot Doctor.

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9): MiX, Swowl, faust, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, iguanaiguana, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:15:12 pm
So, with that NK scum is what? Didds, Iguana, and joth?

Least confident about joth, but you get to a certain point and PoE does the rest
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:20:15 pm
Let's go with my best read from D2 that I should never have abandoned and (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877661#msg877661)

Vote: iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 29, 2021, 03:21:16 pm
Curious. Was this a gamble?

I feel that I need to reread. The gkrieg flip calls a few convictions into question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:21:54 pm
Still a little bit hoping that gkrieg is just lying.......

Also, things like this were super scummy in twilight
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 29, 2021, 03:22:12 pm
So, with that NK scum is what? Didds, Iguana, and joth?

Least confident about joth, but you get to a certain point and PoE does the rest
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 29, 2021, 03:22:54 pm
Still a little bit hoping that gkrieg is just lying.......

Also, things like this were super scummy in twilight
Why is that? That is what I felt while reading.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 29, 2021, 03:23:29 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2021, 03:25:04 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:25:18 pm
So, with that NK scum is what? Didds, Iguana, and joth?

Least confident about joth, but you get to a certain point and PoE does the rest
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

My gut reaction says not all of them.... Then I realize it gives pretty good PoE for off wagoners..... To include myself
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:26:29 pm
Still a little bit hoping that gkrieg is just lying.......

Also, things like this were super scummy in twilight
Why is that? That is what I felt while reading.


Oh, probably mostly confirmation bias of my read
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 29, 2021, 03:26:57 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?
Because he's scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:28:10 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?
Because he's scum.

Why is that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 03:28:24 pm
Also, totally not scum
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 29, 2021, 04:16:40 pm
Of the 4 that jumped to WCD EoD, only joth and e are still alive. I still don't get why it happened. And with the other 2 votes confirmed town now, I'm not sure what the play was. Is one of them scum? Both? Could they both be town? Why would 4 town make a last minute move like that? Sure, if they absolutely know someone is scum... but otherwise, they've left us with a useless EoD, which was effectively D1 and it doesn't help today. And because of that, I feel like the move was scum-driven.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 29, 2021, 04:22:46 pm
Also, MiX has been able to quite effectively stay out of the spotlight this game so far, while also putting a lot of influence into where votes go. I think we have enough to look at right now, and we don't need to go prying into him at the moment. But in 1-2 days if we're having trouble finding a 3rd, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being MiX. As for now, I'm just going to be keeping an eye on his reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2021, 04:24:37 pm
Also, MiX has been able to quite effectively stay out of the spotlight this game so far, while also putting a lot of influence into where votes go. I think we have enough to look at right now, and we don't need to go prying into him at the moment. But in 1-2 days if we're having trouble finding a 3rd, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being MiX. As for now, I'm just going to be keeping an eye on his reads.

Ooooooh look at my influence, I'm sure you AND joth flipped, which is who I was voting for this entire game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 29, 2021, 07:42:40 pm
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 09:01:26 pm
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 09:56:57 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 09:57:54 pm
Vote: WestCoatDidds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2021, 10:02:51 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 10:04:53 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??

Because i was right about gkrieg. And also, I mean, just look at me.

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 29, 2021, 10:07:50 pm
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2021, 10:20:20 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??

Because i was right about gkrieg. And also, I mean, just look at me.

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

I don’t know if you are so, so wrong or just scum. I want it to be so, so wrong (the aforementioned soft spot) but I’m not sure what would convince you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 10:23:39 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??

Because i was right about gkrieg. And also, I mean, just look at me.

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

I don’t know if you are so, so wrong or just scum. I want it to be so, so wrong (the aforementioned soft spot) but I’m not sure what would convince you.

Your flip?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 10:24:36 pm
Because i was right about gkrieg.

You just lost any Towncred you might have had from that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 10:24:58 pm
Didds, what was your reaction to the EFHW flip? Does it change how you'll read her in the future?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2021, 10:39:05 pm
Didds, what was your reaction to the EFHW flip? Does it change how you'll read her in the future?

Well, it has to, right? The cagey was more about her PR than scumminess. Okay. One thing I see is that her frustration with me was authentic, and I hope I’ll be able to discern that again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2021, 10:40:41 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??

Because i was right about gkrieg. And also, I mean, just look at me.

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

I don’t know if you are so, so wrong or just scum. I want it to be so, so wrong (the aforementioned soft spot) but I’m not sure what would convince you.

Your flip?

So, what will be the atonement if my flip demonstrates you were so, so wrong? Sadz that we lose? Beers for the speccy?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 10:41:11 pm
Didds, what was your reaction to the EFHW flip? Does it change how you'll read her in the future?

Well, it has to, right? The cagey was more about her PR than scumminess. Okay. One thing I see is that her frustration with me was authentic, and I hope I’ll be able to discern that again.

Were you surprised?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2021, 10:54:32 pm
Didds, what was your reaction to the EFHW flip? Does it change how you'll read her in the future?

Well, it has to, right? The cagey was more about her PR than scumminess. Okay. One thing I see is that her frustration with me was authentic, and I hope I’ll be able to discern that again.

Were you surprised?

Yes. Although not shocked or anything… I had decided D2 that I was going to wait and see on her and Joth because my scumreader is currently broken on each of them. I have thus far in all of my games only ever been able to catch people I either know well (Swowl, MiX, and Joth) or some legit POE.  So, now I’m 100% sure I suck at reading her and need to avoid knee jerks. But to be fair (to be fhar..), I took the stance yesterday that I wouldn’t let my stubbornness get in the way of an exile.

I think by the time we got to the last part of D2, lots of thought gkrieg was probably telling the truth but that we needed an exile. I think it was towny of EFHW to look for an alternative, but I wasn’t a good choice and I think MiX made the right call to vote rather than have another townie claim.

The most adamant gkrieg voter was faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 11:09:30 pm
Vote: e

Might as well.

Why vote? Why e?

I still think we should look into math and joth. I think the Didds CFD only happens if one of them is scum.

EFHW's off wagon...

Lolol I’m IC bitches.

Why’s that??

Because i was right about gkrieg. And also, I mean, just look at me.

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

I don’t know if you are so, so wrong or just scum. I want it to be so, so wrong (the aforementioned soft spot) but I’m not sure what would convince you.

Your flip?

So, what will be the atonement if my flip demonstrates you were so, so wrong? Sadz that we lose? Beers for the speccy?

Oh man I thought that post was from MiX. I would have been nicer if I’d correctly read it was from you.

I’m voting for you for all the reasons I was yesterday, plus the person you e been tunneling all game just flipped town, right plus I did not like how yesterday end of day played out.

If you want to convince me you’re town, step one is to convince me you and MiX aren’t partners. So I tell you what, if you vote for MiX I’ll join you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 11:12:46 pm
I am pro-mass claim btw.

Among other things, I think at least some of my reads have been confused by PRs, so I think I’m addition to any info PRs have, clearing things up will improve reads.

I’d be willing to wait one more day for the massclaim. We should only do it now if a majority of us agree.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 29, 2021, 11:15:02 pm
Again, there are 6 town players left and it takes 5 to exile. So we need to basically all agree which means the case is going to have to be as strong as possible. Any amount that we can narrow the pool with claims is going to help a lot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 11:17:49 pm
Yeah I'm fine with massclaim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 11:36:13 pm

Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

I could go with that.

MiX, Didds, iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 11:43:09 pm
Swowl, faust, Didds/e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 29, 2021, 11:52:17 pm
Swowl, faust, Didds/e

Is "Didds/e" one or the other, but both won't be scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 29, 2021, 11:54:09 pm
Swowl, faust, Didds/e

Is "Didds/e" one or the other, but both won't be scum?

It was more Swowl, faust and one other, with the other being Didds or e. I wouldn't rule anything out though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 12:06:41 am


But to be fair (to be fhar..)


to be fahrrrrrr (love that show)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 12:40:32 am
Also, MiX has been able to quite effectively stay out of the spotlight this game so far, while also putting a lot of influence into where votes go. I think we have enough to look at right now, and we don't need to go prying into him at the moment. But in 1-2 days if we're having trouble finding a 3rd, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being MiX. As for now, I'm just going to be keeping an eye on his reads.

Ooooooh look at my influence, I'm sure you AND joth flipped, which is who I was voting for this entire game.

Don't make me push you today.

If you are scum, you are trying to get us to vote certain people (me and joth), without pushing so hard that after I flip town, town will immediately suspect you. You are doing well, but just don't quite have enough sway to get the exiles you want.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 12:42:02 am
Scum team is MiX, Didds, and one more.

MiX, Didds, and joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 12:42:18 am
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 12:44:30 am
The more I think about it, the more I am starting to lean scum all being on wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 12:44:50 am
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

funny timing. I was just gonna ask E/Joth what they thought.
I am factoring in the EFHW exile rn. one sec.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 12:45:05 am
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 12:47:22 am
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Very good. I agree about the mass claim, and I have also solved the game.

So let's start with iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 12:47:44 am
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.

I'm not sold that massclaim is the right move. Yes, it gives us a bit more info, and might reveal inconsistencies. But it also gives scum info to play with. Might be better to wait until there's less time left in the game?

PPE: 3
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 12:50:36 am
Swowl, faust, Didds/e
You should reread; this list makes no sense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 12:53:19 am
Swowl, faust, Didds/e
You should reread; this list makes no sense.

Because you're on it?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 12:53:44 am
Swowl, faust, Didds/e
You should reread; this list makes no sense.

Because you're on it?

That's one of the reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 12:55:15 am
Swowl, faust, Didds/e
You should reread; this list makes no sense.

Because you're on it?
Also but I am not surprised by that; but the rest of the list makes no sense either.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 12:55:28 am
I have not solved the game, and absent detailed explanation remain very suspicious of anyone claiming to have done so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 12:59:33 am
I have not solved the game
Then maybe you should get to work on that!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:01:00 am
I have not solved the game
Then maybe you should get to work on that!

Well for starters your response to my list makes me more comfortable with it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 01:03:03 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 01:04:36 am
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

So... it ends up depending on WCD's alignment, who I think is town.
If town, it is either 1 in E/Joth and 2 in the rest, or they are all on GK.

If WCD is skum, then yeah I can see all skum being on there. But I could also see you (E!) being skum there sometimes.

ppe some.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:05:00 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

Well. Thank you for the detailed explanation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 01:06:34 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:07:48 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for

Yeah, we have a Doctor.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 01:09:07 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for

Yeah, we have a Doctor.
I'm not sure why you think so but if it is because of the 1-shot Doc flip that's not true. A single E can result in just a 1-shot Doctor and no full Doctor.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 01:09:32 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for

Yeah, we have a Doctor.

Are you talking about EFHW's flip or something else?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:09:50 am
EFHW's flip
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:10:12 am
Ah, my bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 01:10:34 am
Also I wasn't claiming that that was an exhaustive list.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 01:10:43 am
Obviously I'm not putting a lot of effort into solving the setup at this moment.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 01:12:10 am
I agree with Iguana
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Very good. I agree about the mass claim, and I have also solved the game.

So let's start with iguana

my order would be

Joth/Iguana
E!
Math
MiX/Faust
Jim/WCD
Swowl

But yes, if we did do it, I would be fine with Iguana being first. Though you suggesting it makes me slightly weary.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 01:12:34 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for

I would like you to explain exactly what you mean by this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 01:15:21 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

That is not the solution you are looking for

I would like you to explain exactly what you mean by this.

actually no I don't.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 01:20:37 am
The issue I have with a mass claim is that if someone had a skum result, they would just say it at this point. And as that is the only thing that really makes it super viable, I can't decide if it would be better to wait or not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 01:24:14 am
I agree with Iguana
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Very good. I agree about the mass claim, and I have also solved the game.

So let's start with iguana

my order would be

Joth/Iguana
E!
Math
MiX/Faust
Jim/WCD
Swowl

But yes, if we did do it, I would be fine with Iguana being first. Though you suggesting it makes me slightly weary.

I was agreeing that we do NOT want to mass claim

Starting with iguana was to say we exile iguana.

Seemed like I needed to clarify
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 02:10:38 am
We have to do a massclaim now.

I agree with Swowl's order.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 02:11:11 am
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Isn't this exactly why we should massclaim?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 02:17:20 am
We have to do a massclaim now.

I agree with Swowl's order.
I guess it's probably fine. But e is scum anyways so we might as well exile him first.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 02:24:10 am
We have to do a massclaim now.

I agree with Swowl's order.
I guess it's probably fine. But e is scum anyways so we might as well exile him first.

No reason not to make his team claim before they know which scum role flips first.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 02:29:04 am
We have to do a massclaim now.

I agree with Swowl's order.
I guess it's probably fine. But e is scum anyways so we might as well exile him first.

No reason not to make his team claim before they know which scum role flips first.

No, my team shouldn't claim so scum can't target our PRs with their NK
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 02:43:06 am
Alright, alright, we should do the massclaim, and do it in Swowl's order.

Noone has put me and MiX in their scum team suggestion, so now you can trust that at least one townie advocates for this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 02:44:39 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 02:45:21 am
Alright, alright, we should do the massclaim, and do it in Swowl's order.

Noone has put me and MiX in their scum team suggestion, so now you can trust that at least one townie advocates for this.

I don't know if you actually agree with it.

I'm not that married to the massclaim. But it just seems correct.

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

:(

Let it be known I believed you until the end, even when I knew you were PoE'd scum!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 02:59:50 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:01:10 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Should this change the order in which we exile them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:06:42 am
I guess we probably should exile e because scum wants us to exile iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 03:09:19 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Should this change the order in which we exile them?

I would wait for the rest of the massclaim.

You've been rushing this too much I feel. Just wait for scum to trap themselves.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 03:10:09 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?

I was wondering who would bring that up first.

I am just a lowly one shot cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 03:10:57 am
This is a fun exercise to see who believes me and who doesn't.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:11:26 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Should this change the order in which we exile them?

I would wait for the rest of the massclaim.

You've been rushing this too much I feel. Just wait for scum to trap themselves.
That's what happens I feel like.

I think right now we as town have the info we need and further claiming will just give scum more info for the nightkill. They could, for instance, answer the question "is Swowl a 1-shot or a full Cop?" And that has an impact on the NK decisions if we manage to exile their Roleblocker today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 03:11:51 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Should this change the order in which we exile them?

I would wait for the rest of the massclaim.

You've been rushing this too much I feel. Just wait for scum to trap themselves.

Also, why do you still want the rest of a mass claim, MiX?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:12:08 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:12:22 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Are you guessing or have you solved it?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:13:00 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Are you guessing or have you solved it?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 03:16:26 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)

That is correct.

With a no exile, no info, I took a risk and didn't investigate
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:17:22 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)

That is correct.

With a no exile, no info, I took a risk and didn't investigate
Because you thought "no info is good, let's have no info for longer"?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:18:45 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Are you guessing or have you solved it?
I'm not sure I understand your question.

Which part?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:18:54 am
e-xile now!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:19:27 am
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Are you guessing or have you solved it?
I'm not sure I understand your question.

Which part?
What, in your mind, is the distinction between guessing and having solved it?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:19:44 am
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:20:45 am
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:22:24 am
What, in your mind, is the distinction between guessing and having solved it?

Are you suggesting that in your mind they are the same?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:23:49 am
What, in your mind, is the distinction between guessing and having solved it?

Are you suggesting that in your mind they are the same?
They are at least not mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:26:50 am
Solved implies certainly. Guess implies uncertainty.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:28:23 am
Solved implies certainly. Guess implies uncertainty.
I have found enough town to be fairly certain that we will win the game if we exile among the non-town group. That does not mean I know exactly who the scum are in that group.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:31:06 am
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.

What you are suggesting is that E! is skum faking a result on partner!iguana here yes?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:32:00 am
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.

What you are suggesting is that E! is skum faking a result on partner!iguana here yes?
Yes. It's a play for towncred.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:32:11 am
I have found enough town to be fairly certain that we will win the game if we exile among the non-town group. That does not mean I know exactly who the scum are in that group.

So there are 4 players about whom you're certain 3 of them are scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:33:50 am
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.

What you are suggesting is that E! is skum faking a result on partner!iguana here yes?
Yes. It's a play for towncred.

who agrees with this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:34:28 am
I have found enough town to be fairly certain that we will win the game if we exile among the non-town group. That does not mean I know exactly who the scum are in that group.

So there are 4 players about whom you're certain 3 of them are scum?
Five really, but I am confident once the first flips come in we can suss out who the town among them is. There are subsets of these 5 that cannot be scum together. I also used to be more confident that I could take you out of the pool, which would have brought it down to 4.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:35:14 am
What shook your confidence?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:36:08 am
What shook your confidence?

you should already know the answer to that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:36:53 am
What shook your confidence?
The way you reacted to me, and the way you continue to focus on this conversation rather than address e vs iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:41:07 am
What shook your confidence?
The way you reacted to me, and the way you continue to focus on this conversation rather than address e vs iguana.

Okay a) that's sounding a lot like a threat and b) if you had given me a straight answer this conversation could have been a lot shorter.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:41:47 am
I have found enough town to be fairly certain that we will win the game if we exile among the non-town group. That does not mean I know exactly who the scum are in that group.

So there are 4 players about whom you're certain 3 of them are scum?
Five really, but I am confident once the first flips come in we can suss out who the town among them is. There are subsets of these 5 that cannot be scum together. I also used to be more confident that I could take you out of the pool, which would have brought it down to 4.

so your idea is to go for E!.
If E! is skum, then go for Iguana.
And if E! is town, obv also go for iguana?
But you wanna go for E! first?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:42:33 am
I have found enough town to be fairly certain that we will win the game if we exile among the non-town group. That does not mean I know exactly who the scum are in that group.

So there are 4 players about whom you're certain 3 of them are scum?
Five really, but I am confident once the first flips come in we can suss out who the town among them is. There are subsets of these 5 that cannot be scum together. I also used to be more confident that I could take you out of the pool, which would have brought it down to 4.

so your idea is to go for E!.
If E! is skum, then go for Iguana.
And if E! is town, obv also go for iguana?
But you wanna go for E! first?
e isn't town. But yeah.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:43:04 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:43:18 am
What shook your confidence?

you should already know the answer to that.

Is the answer as you see it the same as the one faust gave?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:44:05 am
What shook your confidence?
The way you reacted to me, and the way you continue to focus on this conversation rather than address e vs iguana.

Okay a) that's sounding a lot like a threat and b) if you had given me a straight answer this conversation could have been a lot shorter.

What part of that seems like a threat?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:44:13 am
What shook your confidence?
The way you reacted to me, and the way you continue to focus on this conversation rather than address e vs iguana.

Okay a) that's sounding a lot like a threat and b) if you had given me a straight answer this conversation could have been a lot shorter.
I can't give a straight answer if I don't know what the question is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:44:32 am
What shook your confidence?

you should already know the answer to that.

Is the answer as you see it the same as the one faust gave?

no.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:46:02 am
I can't give a straight answer if I don't know what the question is.

Oh come on. You don't understand what "Are you guessing or have you solved it?" means?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:46:33 am
I can't give a straight answer if I don't know what the question is.

Oh come on. You don't understand what "Are you guessing or have you solved it?" means?
That's what I already said. Not sure why you need to ask again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:46:58 am
What part of that seems like a threat?

It sounds like "Step in line and do what I want or I'll scumread you".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 03:48:36 am
I can't give a straight answer if I don't know what the question is.

Oh come on. You don't understand what "Are you guessing or have you solved it?" means?
That's what I already said. Not sure why you need to ask again.

You understood the question and were capable of providing an answer.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:51:30 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:52:19 am
What part of that seems like a threat?

It sounds like "Step in line and do what I want or I'll scumread you".

I do not agree, but I see how it could come off that way I guess.
Is that skummy?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 03:52:45 am
What part of that seems like a threat?

It sounds like "Step in line and do what I want or I'll scumread you".

Spooky scary scumread!

Just catch 2 scum. Then who cares if you flip?

Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?

Cause he's caught?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 03:53:14 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)

That is correct.

With a no exile, no info, I took a risk and didn't investigate

Can you go over this decision with more detail?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:55:04 am
What part of that seems like a threat?

It sounds like "Step in line and do what I want or I'll scumread you".

Spooky scary scumread!

Just catch 2 scum. Then who cares if you flip?

Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?

Cause he's caught?

where was he caught? we were discussing amass claim. to do it right then is towny af to keep an claim that is not needed from going forth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:55:48 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:56:26 am
I can't give a straight answer if I don't know what the question is.

Oh come on. You don't understand what "Are you guessing or have you solved it?" means?
That's what I already said. Not sure why you need to ask again.

You understood the question and were capable of providing an answer.
Well, yes. After you clarified.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 03:58:14 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

If e is who scum wants to flip, then we flip iguana, right? So this contradicts what you said before.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 03:59:24 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

If e is who scum wants to flip, then we flip iguana, right? So this contradicts what you said before.
Well scum definitinely wants us to flip iguana before e. And if iguana is town, then they are okay with e being flipped next. But I don't think iguana is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:00:12 am
(+ if iguana is town then we shouldn't flip him of course)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:04:47 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

So you think we were finding skum today, or at least that skum thought that we were finding skum today?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:05:58 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

So you think we were finding skum today, or at least that skum thought that we were finding skum today?
Yes. As a rule, scum tends to overestimate the amount of danger they are in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:06:05 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

If e is who scum wants to flip, then we flip iguana, right? So this contradicts what you said before.
Well scum definitinely wants us to flip iguana before e. And if iguana is town, then they are okay with e being flipped next. But I don't think iguana is town.

that's like... what "contradicts" means....
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:07:39 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

If e is who scum wants to flip, then we flip iguana, right? So this contradicts what you said before.
Well scum definitinely wants us to flip iguana before e. And if iguana is town, then they are okay with e being flipped next. But I don't think iguana is town.

that's like... what "contradicts" means....
I'm very confused now. Where is the contradiction?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:08:03 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

If e is who scum wants to flip, then we flip iguana, right? So this contradicts what you said before.
Well scum definitinely wants us to flip iguana before e. And if iguana is town, then they are okay with e being flipped next. But I don't think iguana is town.

that's like... what "contradicts" means....
or personal bias I guess is the more correct term . But still, you are basing the whole thing on your read that II is skum
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:08:43 am
ppe sorry - contradict was not the correct term
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:09:43 am
or personal bias I guess is the more correct term . But still, you are basing the whole thing on your read that II is skum
That's clearly not true. If anything, I am biased towards thinking that e is scum; I mean, I was voting for the guy before the claim. I had not made up my mind about iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:11:35 am
or personal bias I guess is the more correct term . But still, you are basing the whole thing on your read that II is skum
That's clearly not true. If anything, I am biased towards thinking that e is scum; I mean, I was voting for the guy before the claim. I had not made up my mind about iguana.

need to read to make sure that is true. but if it is, yeah that is fair.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:13:18 am
I mean my argument is thus:

If iguana is scum, then we should exile e first, because scum wants us to exile iguana.

If iguana is town, then we should exile e, because... iguana is town.

So no matter iguana's alignment it's best to exile e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:14:29 am
I mean my argument is thus:

If iguana is scum, then we should exile e first, because scum wants us to exile iguana.

If iguana is town, then we should exile e, because... iguana is town.

So no matter iguana's alignment it's best to exile e.

.... or you know... E is town and Iguana is skum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:16:38 am
or personal bias I guess is the more correct term . But still, you are basing the whole thing on your read that II is skum
That's clearly not true. If anything, I am biased towards thinking that e is scum; I mean, I was voting for the guy before the claim. I had not made up my mind about iguana.

I can't find you really pushing E! outside of just like earlier today. Is that what you are referencing  here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 04:18:12 am
Yes. I have also been voting e for a brief moment during D2, before annoyingly deciding to go for gkrieg instead.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:19:13 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

why would you say this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 04:23:19 am
I have no clue how to respond to faust at this point. He is so lost in his own little world

I mean, he is doing great eroding my read that since iguana is scum, faust must be town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:29:58 am
its 130am here. I will read E! as a cop tomorrow tahh bahhh fairrrr - and let you know what I see.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 04:31:11 am
would also appreciate a WCD and MiX opinion on this
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 04:35:44 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)

That is correct.

With a no exile, no info, I took a risk and didn't investigate

Can you go over this decision with more detail?

There were multiple factors that went into it not the least of which was indecision.

I did not consider myself at risk of drawing the NK, and with a godfather there is always a chance that I investigate the worst possible person and get a town result on scum. To some extent, I selfishly wanted a better read on the game to get a better result. I did feel as though my reads were disconnected with a majority of town and that I would just investigate everyone thought was obv!town and it would be wasted. And also the later the investigation the more useful it is, but also riskier. I mean, does a full cop claim a N1 town result on D2? Not typically. I felt like I was super likely to just get a town result and then claim D2 and just create easy NK targets for scum.

Was I right? We will see how this turns out. We did get a D2 wagon and a N2 NK not influenced by my result.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 04:38:06 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

So you think we were finding skum today, or at least that skum thought that we were finding skum today?
Yes. As a rule, scum tends to overestimate the amount of danger they are in.

I tend to underestimate the amount of danger I am in.

I claimed when I did because I did not want anyone else to claim. I mean, sure, iguana is going to claim what he prepped last night, but I don't want town to claim.

For example, we don't need our UB outed. (If we have one)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 04:41:12 am
I also deliberated over when to claim? First post out the gate? String it along? I chose to string it along and probably posted a bit too loosely just having fun with it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:22:08 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

So you think we were finding skum today, or at least that skum thought that we were finding skum today?
Yes. As a rule, scum tends to overestimate the amount of danger they are in.

I tend to underestimate the amount of danger I am in.

I claimed when I did because I did not want anyone else to claim. I mean, sure, iguana is going to claim what he prepped last night, but I don't want town to claim.

For example, we don't need our UB outed. (If we have one)

You are completely detached from this world if you think there's even a chance of an UB being in this game.

I still think we massclaim. If there's more PRs scum can't kill them all.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:23:09 am
Yes. I have also been voting e for a brief moment during D2, before annoyingly deciding to go for gkrieg instead.

Could you have tried to sheep me instead? At least attempt to?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 06:24:23 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

why would you say this?
If I'm right then scum probably already suspects all of this. If I'm wrong then maybe someone can point out to me why that is. Too many people have been suspecting MiX/Didds and I figured maybe this will give them something to think about.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 30, 2021, 06:24:51 am
TIL I'm completely detached from this world.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 06:25:51 am
Yes. I have also been voting e for a brief moment during D2, before annoyingly deciding to go for gkrieg instead.

Could you have tried to sheep me instead? At least attempt to?
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.
At the time I wasn't seeing the potential for Masons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:31:33 am
Yes. I have also been voting e for a brief moment during D2, before annoyingly deciding to go for gkrieg instead.

Could you have tried to sheep me instead? At least attempt to?
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.
At the time I wasn't seeing the potential for Masons.

 :'(

Well I thought only Swowl was onto it anyway. So I guess it's fine.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:32:50 am
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

Not caught up. I answered this EOD yesterday. Quite likely. If not all three than 2/3.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:37:02 am
Right, a 1-shot Cop who just decided to not use their power N1  ::)

That is correct.

With a no exile, no info, I took a risk and didn't investigate
Because you thought "no info is good, let's have no info for longer"?

Still not caught up, but +1 faust. This is the kind of humor I come here for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:40:31 am
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?
Because scum wants to get to LyLo and sees e as their most disposable member. That second part is why I think it's more likely that iguana is scum; there aren't many scumteams I can think up where the sacrifice is chosen to be e.

It's more likely that this claim is serving a dual purpose of giving e towncred and calling your Cop status (and thus IC status) into question. But it is certainly worth rereading once e has flipped, before deciding on the next exile.

So you think we were finding skum today, or at least that skum thought that we were finding skum today?
Yes. As a rule, scum tends to overestimate the amount of danger they are in.

Yes but not enough to do a mad sacrifice play while they’re currently bowligg by a perfect game…. Cmon faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:44:39 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

why would you say this?
If I'm right then scum probably already suspects all of this. If I'm wrong then maybe someone can point out to me why that is. Too many people have been suspecting MiX/Didds and I figured maybe this will give them something to think about.

I thought the masonry was you and MiX. Which kind of blinded me to the possibility of MiX and Didds. You might be underestimating the clarity that knowing your own role gives you.

If they are masons, that makes MiX’s behavior eod look a lot better. But it takes always the main reason I was trusting you :(
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 06:44:55 am
Yes but not enough to do a mad sacrifice play while they’re currently bowligg by a perfect game…. Cmon faust.
What do you think is going on?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:45:08 am
Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:49:54 am
Yes but not enough to do a mad sacrifice play while they’re currently bowligg by a perfect game…. Cmon faust.
What do you think is going on?

Either e is a cop and iguana is scum or e is scum and iguana is town. Scum might be scared enough to take the 1v1 here.

Hmm, the more I think about it, we really would never exile e if we went for iguana now and he flipped scum. But I also know that if we went for e and he flipped scum.

What if this is the world’s greatest Xenatos gambit and faust, e, and iguana are all scum? And it’s like in those heist movies where you think the thieves are caught but then the cop who has caught them is just another thief?

I guess this is a long way of saying I like what you’re saying but I don’t trust you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:50:02 am
Ok well. Swowl is a Cop (probably 1-shot and has investigated EFHW N1. MiX and Didds are Masons. Scum is among the remaining players.

why would you say this?
If I'm right then scum probably already suspects all of this. If I'm wrong then maybe someone can point out to me why that is. Too many people have been suspecting MiX/Didds and I figured maybe this will give them something to think about.

I thought the masonry was you and MiX. Which kind of blinded me to the possibility of MiX and Didds. You might be underestimating the clarity that knowing your own role gives you.

If they are masons, that makes MiX’s behavior eod look a lot better. But it takes always the main reason I was trusting you :(

Sorry! This was on purpose. I just expected Didds to always be townread and faust to not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:51:20 am
Blah I like this even more. It backfired but I like it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:53:52 am
I stupidly brought up the mass claim yesterday, ensuring that scum would plan for it overnight. Which makes something like “if a massclaim looks like it’s a go, I’m going to immediately pre-empt it by claiming cop” a much more likely scum QT scenario.

Ok, faust has me convinced. Though I’m really gonna feel like a dick if e is actually a cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 06:54:14 am
Sorry! This was on purpose. I just expected Didds to always be townread and faust to not.
Ha! The thing is though, Masons tend to look like scum. They are a group of people that has alignment information on one another and does not want to get each other exiled.

Also I feel like I suspected you too much for this to really work.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:56:58 am
One nice thing is that it’s no longer possible that iguana and e are both town. Which means the scum team can’t, for instance, be Didds/MiX/faust.

But faust could be scum who figured out the masonry and decided to put if for town cred.

MIX, what makes you trust faust here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 06:57:03 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 06:57:34 am
e, why iguana instead of me or math or faust?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:58:39 am
Sorry! This was on purpose. I just expected Didds to always be townread and faust to not.
Ha! The thing is though, Masons tend to look like scum. They are a group of people that has alignment information on one another and does not want to get each other exiled.

Also I feel like I suspected you too much for this to really work.

I mean, figuring it out is a good exercise in reading this game. If you read it carefully, it was obvious we weren't masons, but otherwise your distrust of me could be seen as "sheep me, not the other way around".

One nice thing is that it’s no longer possible that iguana and e are both town. Which means the scum team can’t, for instance, be Didds/MiX/faust.

But faust could be scum who figured out the masonry and decided to put if for town cred.

MIX, what makes you trust faust here?

Faust is town. Like...I don't need to justify it.

Just look at today. And then look at D3 the other game. Do you see any similarities? There are none.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 06:59:40 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

Bad faust. Bad. No theory talking before massclaim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:01:26 am
Well you jumped the order in the massclaim, so don't you complain about me!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:01:43 am
+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 07:02:39 am
Ok I’m sold. With a towncore of MiX/Didds/faust from where I’m sitting I just need to figure out two more townies. I can add Swowl if I trust faust.

So that leaves e, iguana, mathdude, and Jimmmmm as 3 town and a scum.

So it’s probably Jim or iguana.

vote: e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 07:03:18 am
Am I up for claims?

Are we still even doing that now the game is solved?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 07:04:08 am
Well you jumped the order in the massclaim, so don't you complain about me!

You're the one that claimed for me.

+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"

Yes, but this is trivial. What you said is not trivial. Claiming UB is never a good idea regardless of setup.

Am I up for claims?

Are we still even doing that now the game is solved?

I'm waiting for iguana. You can do whatever.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:06:46 am
Yes. I have also been voting e for a brief moment during D2, before annoyingly deciding to go for gkrieg instead.

Could you have tried to sheep me instead? At least attempt to?
MiXy, I wish I could trust you. Alas. My vote stays where it is.
At the time I wasn't seeing the potential for Masons.

 :'(

Well I thought only Swowl was onto it anyway. So I guess it's fine.

So MiX and Didds are masons. That changes things
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:07:47 am
faust's case does assume I somehow knew MiX and Didds were masons, which is not the case
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:08:26 am
faust's case does assume I somehow knew MiX and Didds were masons, which is not the case
Where do I assume that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:09:04 am
Also, even more suspicious of faust.

Claiming masons for MiX/Didds is MVP play right there... If scum win (and faust is scum)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:09:19 am
+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"

Here
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:10:59 am
+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"

Here
What...? MiX said that after you claimed and it doesn't have anything to do with why I think you're scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 07:12:59 am
Good morning! 6 pages! It’s gonna make me a minute…

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 07:13:11 am
Also, even more suspicious of faust.

Claiming masons for MiX/Didds is MVP play right there... If scum win (and faust is scum)

If me, faust and Didds are scum...then I planned to claim masons with one of them from D1. Just read it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 07:13:51 am
Good morning! 6 pages! It’s gonna make me a minute…

Welcome! I claimed already by the way. Faust kinda tied my hands though :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:14:12 am
+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"

Here
What...? MiX said that after you claimed and it doesn't have anything to do with why I think you're scum.

Ok, true. Jumping around on mobile and conflating/mixing things up.

But the idea that I am telling alleged partners not to claim UB is absolutely in contradiction to the idea that I am scum claiming a cop result against iguana.

If I were scum doing something like that you know it would have been discussed at night
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:15:02 am
Also, even more suspicious of faust.

Claiming masons for MiX/Didds is MVP play right there... If scum win (and faust is scum)

If me, faust and Didds are scum...then I planned to claim masons with one of them from D1. Just read it.

No, I am saying you and Didds are town, faust is scum who figured it out
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 07:21:12 am
I wrote and deleted a post last night to Joth about being so, so wrong about WCD/MiX scum team but it said too clearly “were a team. Think harder” but turns out faust doesn’t need such an obvious post to know.

So, hooray! Masons!

Swowls voting pattern is the only one that screams town, so he’s in my core. If faust outed us for towncred, it doesn’t make much sense because it he’d be the only scum in the core and loses. So, I’m at WCD, MiX, Swowl, and faust. Joth is my guess for next town in, but it’s just a guess.



Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:21:23 am
+ basically told scum "don't claim UB"

Here
What...? MiX said that after you claimed and it doesn't have anything to do with why I think you're scum.

Ok, true. Jumping around on mobile and conflating/mixing things up.

But the idea that I am telling alleged partners not to claim UB is absolutely in contradiction to the idea that I am scum claiming a cop result against iguana.

If I were scum doing something like that you know it would have been discussed at night
This was not directed at you, but at MiX.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 07:23:13 am
Good morning! 6 pages! It’s gonna make me a minute…

Welcome! I claimed already by the way. Faust kinda tied my hands though :P

I was always going to wait for you, by virtue of not wanting to make your head explode generally and specifically.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:25:22 am
This is the game I am looking at:

Conf!town
MiX/Didds- mason
e - 1 shot cop

Conf!scum
iguanaiguana

All Else- 2 scum in 5
Swowl
faust
mathdude
Jimmmmm
jotheonah

I have been town reading basically all of the people in this group of 5. Reiterating some of my recent posts as well as my D2 reads, I could totally see faust/iguana as scum partners. I was thrown off by iguana's long post detailing his history with faust, but the actual interactions read scum to me.

Who does that leave? Swowl? Joth? I really don't know. But that is a choice for lylo
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 07:25:45 am


But to be fair (to be fhar..)


to be fahrrrrrr (love that show)

That’s whats I appreciate about you Swan
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 07:30:29 am
Are we going to do the rest of the claims or is it a bad idea?

Has Swowl claimed cop or was that just Faust’s solve?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 07:31:26 am
Good morning! 6 pages! It’s gonna make me a minute…

Welcome! I claimed already by the way. Faust kinda tied my hands though :P

I was always going to wait for you, by virtue of not wanting to make your head explode generally and specifically.

Yes, so sorry about not waiting for you.

FWIW, I would be fine with us claiming whenever you felt like it even if faust said nothing. But we hadn't actually talked about it,so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:32:33 am
Are we going to do the rest of the claims or is it a bad idea?

Has Swowl claimed cop or was that just Faust’s solve?

Faust's guess
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:34:56 am
Are we going to do the rest of the claims or is it a bad idea?

Has Swowl claimed cop or was that just Faust’s solve?

Faust's guess

faust telling his partner to claim cop
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:35:16 am
Haha, I am living in my own little world, aren't I?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 07:38:58 am
Haha, I am living in my own little world, aren't I?

Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:41:12 am
Haha, I am living in my own little world, aren't I?

At least when I am confronted with facts I adjust and adapt.

Unlike faust who has created a world where I am scum, then summarily reject my claim to conform to his read.

Acknowledge, you don't just accept all claims. That would be silly. But did you go back and read iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 07:42:34 am
But did you go back and read iguana?
How would that help me overcome my scumread on you? Because he's so obviously scum? If it's that obvious then why did you check him in the first place?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:45:22 am
Ok I’m sold. With a towncore of MiX/Didds/faust from where I’m sitting I just need to figure out two more townies. I can add Swowl if I trust faust.

So that leaves e, iguana, mathdude, and Jimmmmm as 3 town and a scum.

So it’s probably Jim or iguana.

vote: e

I feel like this is where my blind spot is this game. I just really don't see math or jimmmm as scum at this point. But the numbers don't lie, one (or both) of them are very likely scum.

Joth, why landing on voting me here? Pure persuasion from faust?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:46:45 am
But did you go back and read iguana?
How would that help me overcome my scumread on you? Because he's so obviously scum? If it's that obvious then why did you check him in the first place?

I checked him because he is not so obviously scum, but I had the crazy read D2 and thought he was.

And guess what? I was right. Such a great feeling.

I just have had a terrible job of it presenting my result.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:49:09 am
To be honest, in the crazy world I live in right now convincing myself faust is scum, I don't really care to prove iguana is scum

And a large portion of my initial read on iguana was entirely based on the premise that he was scum with you [faust]
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:51:30 am
-snip-.

Was not expecting a whole history.

Looking at Faust again.

The anticipation is killing me

Don't wait up. I'm not finishing until I get some sleep

Still holding my breath.

Ok, so, this post is going to be kind of a doozy but here goes.

I believe you voted me / are still scum reading because you believe that I fabricated a vote on faust as a sort of scum tactic to see if anyone else was interested in voting him / to get rid of him / whatever.

But the real reason I voted faust is much more complicated than that and is related to like every game of mafia I've ever played.

I actually was thinking the two of you were partners doing a little partner bussing dance.

The whole history lesson is a bit compelling to pull me off that narrative, I will stick to just faust being scum

On the other hand....
I used to think it was faust and gkrieg and Galzria and Ashersky and Lalight and Robz that were all really really good and he was up there with them, but I now think he's the best, hands down.

Who decided to NK lalight is still to be determined and someone who views them as strong town is a as compelling an argument as we have.

In the end, I think either you or faust could still be scum, leaning more towards faust, less toward both of you
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 07:54:01 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Following up on this post of mine finally.  Sorry about the delay.  (And yes, I'm at a computer and have a lot to reply to.  This will be a wall post!)

I had sort of ignored iguana D1, since I had only played 1 other game with him (Oz), and wanted to focus more on people I had played multiple games with, in order to get a little more info about how to read him.  I was scum-reading him off-and-on last game, and I think that's just that his playstyle will get read that way to me (the same way I will, by default, think MiX, faust, and a few others not in this game are just scummy by the way they post D1 of games).  Again, I'm becoming more aware of this bias, and trying to take it into account in learning how to read people.

Back on D1...

A few RVS votes/discussion early, then
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

I don't like the excuse for not wanting to vote MiX.  Then, I get that it's D1 and we don't know much, but "saltiness" doesn't seem like a good reason to jump on a vote.

This post:
For all the discussion of us not being RVS, the weekend start we've had feels very RVSy even for a normal game.

Mathdude's comments here

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

remind me a bit of when he OMGUSed me in the last game here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20798.msg875111#msg875111)

It has that same attitude of scumreading someone for reading the game differently than you. He was town there, so for right now I'm reading it as Math is town again and would want to blend in more if he was scum.

Joth and Jimmm are my biggest unknowns this game.

I vaguely remember Jim as someone who played occasionally, didn't post much, but had a reputation for being good at finding the scums with short, decisive posts. I don't remember if I've ever read a scum Jim game though...

Joth I've seen as mod and I did some reading into his old games already, but I don't know his scum meta either.

@Joth, could you point me in the direction of a scum game you are proud of?
gets townpoints.  This is some of the most useful stuff I think he's posted, and it was very early D1.

Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.

For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
This looks like an easy way to avoid committing to doing much useful stuff D1 - something scum would want to do, as long as it looks like an exile will actually happen.

Now we get into some more of the good stuff!


Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude
Maybe it's a poor choice of words, but this case is definitely not "persuasive".  This is a good excuse to jump on a wagon (e provided a flimsy reason to vote me, why not jump on and see what happens?).  But it's not persuasive, by any means.  Scum!iguana makes it seem like there's more of a case on me than there really is.

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.
-snip-

The "Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum" is something I'll come back to later with iguana, and part of why I think he's scum.

Otherwise, in that post, he's all over the map, commenting about joth, but not really saying anything useful for us to use for or against in the future.

-snip-
(long post of his re-read on MiX)
In his re-read on MiX, he's almost fully focused on how MiX reads me, and switches his read on me, then ignores commenting on a read on me.  This fixation on how things relate to me is not fully founded at this point (I had not yet become a real viable wagon until almost the end of D1... even though I had a few votes on me earlier, there wasn't much to them).

Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

I believe I replied to this thought back on D1, but this was late enough in the day, a policy exile for not showing up would probably have been worse than no-exile (unless of course Swowl ended up flipping scum).  We actually had relevant thoughts/reads from many people on a few different wagons, so switching to a lurker with almost no info on people's reads would be something scum would want.

-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

This was an OMGUS reply.  And hedging on "especially scummy if Jim is town" already sounds scummy, but adding "which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet" sounds more like "I know he's town, but I can't say that here".

He then digs down and repeats these thoughts in his next post, arguing for why he's tunneling so much on me, because it's almost all that e and gkrieg had done (in their few contributions to the game, even though there were no real reasons given)... and since he was reading them, and MiX, therefore of course it would all connect back to me.

Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust
Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust.

I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.

That's a lot of people he doesn't like the look of and doesn't really trust.  It's one thing to not be townreading a lot of people D1.  But this looks like throwing shade on a lot of people, and seeing what will stick.


On to D2...

At the start, he is focused a lot on why people did or did not vote me.  This fixation actually makes sense here, since I was one of the potentially viable wagons EoD1.

Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.

It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
This quote and his previous post look like just trying to start something, where nothing needed to be started.  Scum trying to build up trouble start of D2 maybe?

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

These posts just came out of nowhere, in my opinion.  He had been so focused EoD1 with who was voting for whom, and not voting with people he thought was scummy.  He had been scum-reading me a fair amount now.  And I believe at this point, I was the only one voting faust, and he jumps on to maybe start a wagon.  This is inconsistent with his earlier play this game.

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

It doesn't have to be both! Trust me, I can be town and also be super detrimental. That is most likely the case here.

At any rate, I wasn't sheeping you, and actually I had no idea you were even voting faust.

I really honestly believe that you can't write a good case against faust. He has played in near every game I've played in since 2015, and I don't think I've ever been able to read him accurately. Mostly I find him to be towny even when he is scum. Last game I trusted that read and lost.

This game, I am not feeling the case against Jim at all. EFHW seemed scummy at first but has largely come back from that. I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town. I'm least sure about Joth, but a large part of that is just PoE from my other townreads.

So those are the major wagons that we've had, and I don't feel great about any of them. So it begs the question, if all of those people are town (possible), who is scum? Probably someone who is playing quite well. Hence, the vote on faust, who I think always plays well as scum.

You can call that grasping at straws if you want. But I have certainly put thought into it.

Fair enough to say he wasn't sheeping me.  Maybe I got over-reactive at that point.  Like I said earlier, I was planning to follow up that post with a re-read on you and likely a vote on you (which is what this is now!)  And part of the reason I'm thinking that is you are all-of-a-sudden now changing your mind on me.  "I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town".  Done with the argument, and just trying to deflect the attention, so I stop focusing on you?  If you town-read me now, maybe I'll ignore you?

Vote: iguana

When I had posted 2 days ago about iguana sheeping me, I was definitely under the mindset that he had been building up in scumminess throughout the game, and I'd have a big case.  But now that I've gone through all his posts, even with a lean on thinking he's scum, they aren't quite as bad as my initial gut read seemed to think they are (and I fully expect pushback on a few fo my comments).  However, I still don't like a bunch of what he said, and will leave my vote there for now.  I'll see how he responds.

PPE: 13!! (I'll go look at them now)

Don't trust me, trust math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:00:59 am
To be honest, in the crazy world I live in right now convincing myself faust is scum, I don't really care to prove iguana is scum

And a large portion of my initial read on iguana was entirely based on the premise that he was scum with you [faust]

Prove iguana is scum to faust, that is.

I sincerely hope I can convince the rest of you and we do exile iguana to avoid the triple lylo
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:08:31 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

There isn't room for swowl to be a cop.

Why are you convinced of that?

Right now we are likely sitting at
ECMTTT

There is totally room to flip those Ts to:
ECMMMT
ECCCMT

Both much less likely.

But really, the narrative you created makes it me vs swowl for cop claims, what happens when I flip 1-shot cop? Swowl is scum too?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:09:58 am
I stupidly brought up the mass claim yesterday, ensuring that scum would plan for it overnight. Which makes something like “if a massclaim looks like it’s a go, I’m going to immediately pre-empt it by claiming cop” a much more likely scum QT scenario.

Ok, faust has me convinced. Though I’m really gonna feel like a dick if e is actually a cop.

But hey, you can feel good that you didn't vote gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:12:27 am
I stupidly brought up the mass claim yesterday, ensuring that scum would plan for it overnight. Which makes something like “if a massclaim looks like it’s a go, I’m going to immediately pre-empt it by claiming cop” a much more likely scum QT scenario.

Ok, faust has me convinced. Though I’m really gonna feel like a dick if e is actually a cop.

But that really is the thing too.

Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?

So in your world where I am scum, am I framing town!iguana or and I doing a gambit for scum!iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 08:13:05 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

There isn't room for swowl to be a cop.

Why are you convinced of that?

Right now we are likely sitting at
ECMTTT

There is totally room to flip those Ts to:
ECMMMT
ECCCMT

Both much less likely.

But really, the narrative you created makes it me vs swowl for cop claims, what happens when I flip 1-shot cop? Swowl is scum too?

The two masons has to be MMM though, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:13:50 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

There isn't room for swowl to be a cop.

Why are you convinced of that?

Right now we are likely sitting at
ECMTTT

There is totally room to flip those Ts to:
ECMMMT
ECCCMT

Both much less likely.

But really, the narrative you created makes it me vs swowl for cop claims, what happens when I flip 1-shot cop? Swowl is scum too?

The two masons has to be MMM though, right?

"Two masons" is you and MiX, and we still have a UB
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 08:14:02 am
I am going to look at some vote counts using mathdude's info dumps (thanks!).

D1

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

For anyone believing that e can be town, this should dissuade you from an iguana/joth/Jimmmmm team.

EFHW - WCD, iguana, joth
Jimmmmm - faust, MiX, math, EFHW
faust - LaLight, Jimmmmm

The Jimmmmm wagon is curious -  with me, MiX, EFHW, there's 3 town. math is the only unknown, which makes him more likely scum. Or i suppose Jimmmmm is scum. Both being town seems unlikely (note that joth joins this wagon later also, but not for some time).

EFHW - WCD, MiX, joth, Swowl
Jimmmmm - math, EFHW
faust - Jimmmmm
math - 2.71, iguana, gkrieg
MiX - LaLight, faust

Everyone on the EFHW wagon is town except for joth. Pair that with the EoD1 wagon:

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

where the joth wagon is all town (and town!EFHW was also briefly there) - this makes me quite suspicious of joth.

D2

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg, MiX, joth
joth: Swowl
gkrieg: faust, WCD, iguana, Jim, math
WCD: 2.71

The mathdude wagon is all town until joth joins... which again casts doubt on his townieness.

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah,
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (4): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....

Here, again, we have an all-town wagon on joth.

jotheonah (1): Swowl
gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, MiX, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah

The EoD2 Didds wagon was supported by 2 townies, it definitely makes sense that joth might join a scumpartner!e there in order to not be on the misexile.

PPE: 5
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 08:16:10 am
Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?
I love the self-report. "Actually, I didn't yet know that I was going to claim Cop."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:17:58 am
Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?
I love the self-report. "Actually, I didn't yet know that I was going to claim Cop."

Haha, it is true I didn't know if I would claim full cop or 1-shot cop.

I was very tempted to lie and make up a N1 target
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:18:36 am
Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?
I love the self-report. "Actually, I didn't yet know that I was going to claim Cop."

Also, not directed at you, don't bias joth's reread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2021, 08:25:23 am
Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?
I love the self-report. "Actually, I didn't yet know that I was going to claim Cop."

Haha, it is true I didn't know if I would claim full cop or 1-shot cop.

I was very tempted to lie and make up a N1 target

Oh? Can you talk about what ultimately lead to your decision?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 08:26:31 am
Wow, I went to bed late, and still have many pages to catch up on this morning. Reading now, but off to work soon. Will be on mobile reading through the day.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 08:41:42 am
Read my posts before the mass claim? Do they feel like scum that thought through exactly how they would claim the next day?
I love the self-report. "Actually, I didn't yet know that I was going to claim Cop."

Haha, it is true I didn't know if I would claim full cop or 1-shot cop.

I was very tempted to lie and make up a N1 target

Oh? Can you talk about what ultimately lead to your decision?

I was not 100% on anyone for sure being town and anyone who read my D2 would know any sort of "investigation into gkrieg or EFHW" would just not be genuine which would erode confidence in my claim. And really same goes for other people who haven't flipped.

I played D2 the same way I played D1. Poorly, and with no information beyond knowing that I am town.

So in the end, the adventurous daring me lost out to the much more rational "town tells the truth always" principled me.

I did play with it a bit, yeah. But I was always very clear that I exclusively claimed N2.

A premise I was kind of playing with was that scum would ask the N1 target. Because they want to know for sure if I am a full cop (worth NKing) or a 1-shot cop (maybe leave alive if a better target presents itself). That was presumptuous of course, I really wasn't anticipating mass immediate rejection of my claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 09:04:48 am
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 09:51:32 am
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 10:24:50 am
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?

But if there are town who make his role unlikely/impossible, they’d say something, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 11:00:49 am
I’m not trying to be dense…
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 11:10:15 am
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?

But if there are town who make his role unlikely/impossible, they’d say something, right?

One hopes. The logic of when we do and don’t believe claims in this community is pretty opaque to me too.

I also have been hard townreading iguana and less so e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2021, 12:00:24 pm
Yeah, but you were also convinced I was scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:06:01 pm
Lots to respond to. I will have to make some time later.

Vote: e for now

and I'm VT
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:10:04 pm
I don't know why e picked me. When I am town, I have endless capacity to prove it by explaining every detail of my thoughts and feelings at any given moment. Go ahead and fire away, I'm happy to answer any question about my play.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:12:44 pm
It does seem like scum wanted to get to the strong LyLo position through my exile and don't mind sacrificing a player to get there. I would suspect they have another gambit lined up to try to win them LyLo.

Looking at Faust lining up both our exiles... I would say Faust is e's partner here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 12:17:34 pm
Yeah, but you were also convinced I was scum?

For a handful of reasons all explained by you being a mason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on September 30, 2021, 12:18:27 pm
Also I’m a VT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 12:35:54 pm
Looking at Faust lining up both our exiles... I would say Faust is e's partner here.
I'm not following. Without my intervention, you would be exiled, (presumably) flip town, and then e gets exiled.

With my intervention, e is exiled first, and then you have a shot at proving your townieness.

I am in fact doing the opposite of lining up exiles.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:43:47 pm
I find it presumptuous that you say I would be exiled without your intervention. But sure.

 The part where you said we are probably both scum and I'm next was the part where I felt like you were lining up exiles lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:48:12 pm
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 12:49:57 pm
So I guess it's e/iguana/X?

Should this change the order in which we exile them?

Here is you putting us in a literal line
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on September 30, 2021, 01:31:12 pm
I guess anyone who's calling a scumteam is lining up exiles then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2021, 03:28:08 pm
DisSwan out of town and Galz and Raptor and me should not be left alone.
will either be back tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 07:04:15 pm
Let me make sure I haven't missed anything.

E claims 1-shot cop with guilty result on iguana.

Faust is sure e is lying, has the game figured out, and isn't sure why the rest of us don't yet.

Faust said MiX/WCD are masons which they have confirmed.

Faust says Swowl is 1-shot cop who likely had innocent result on EFHW, but this isn't confirmed or denied.

And we've had some speculation about the setup.

Anything else important I've missed? It definitely looks like e or iguana tonight. I'll be back with my take after a reread and after kids are in bed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 07:15:26 pm
So, time to defend myself. I am going to try to walk people through what I was thinking during some of the major phases of the game so far

Ironically, a lot of my D1 scumread on Mathdude was actually informed by how I thought that 2.7 and his case on Math were towny and therefore the Math wagon was town driven.

I got a very towny vibe from the posts (starting here) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876898#msg876898) that 2.7 made when he came into the game and suspected Math. Specifically, 2.7 made the "Jim screamed town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876902#msg876902)" comment that really stuck out to me as something I thought a town would say. It also jived with my own sense that Math was saying a lot of scummy sounding things and Jim was saying a lot of townie sounding things and that the Jim wagon had to have scum who hopped on it trying to capitalize on faust's scumread.

That being said, Mathdude sounded scummy during the Oz game a lot, but turned out to be town and really only made a few townie comments that I could use to know he was town and a lot of just either off-the-wall comments or scummy sounding comments in that game. So to me, just hearing scummy comments from Math wasn't enough reason to vote him. That's why 2.7's case that it was Math's placement on a wagon that was scummy was what pushed me over the edge to really seeing a scum!Math narrative.

My Math scumread persisted until EoD1, when I looked back at the wagons over night and concluded that if Math had been scum and Joth had been town, Math would almost certainly have moved his vote onto Joth. No one had moved to the Jim wagon that he was on over a long period of time, and people were starting to leave it. So if scum!Math had moved to Joth, Joth would have come much closer to exile, so for Math to hesitate on switching his vote off Jim before he left for the day seemed really townie to me. If you're scum, why not just take the pressure off yourself when you know you can get a misexile either way? But if you're town, you don't always want to move onto another player if you don't feel good about it, so you hold off until the last minute and maybe miss a deadline. So with Joth & Jim being two of my top townreads D1, I felt that Math's hesitation to move from Jim to Joth even when it would preserve his own life was actually very towny.

The same argument didn't really apply to Joth, because at the point he signed off, there was only faust and MiX voting him, so although I thought he was towny based on his meta, I didn't see his failure to switch wagons at EoD as a towny move. That was part of the reason that I've been going back and forth of Joth so much. Because if Math is town, that would mean that the wagon on him was most likely either T v T or scum!Joth v Town!Math.

That is why I came into D2 and immediately picked a fight with MiX  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877519#msg877519)because for some reason (that I still don't understand!) MiX had reread the EoD1 and actually come to the opposite conclusion from mine about Math, and that made very little sense to me. At the time, though, I didn't want to share my reasoning for why I found Math towny because I felt like scum would still want to push the Math exile, and that if I held back on my reads, scum would feel more likely to push him again D2 and that I would be able to analyze those interactions and find scum D2 better than the nothing D1.

I ended up thinking gkrieg was scum mostly because of his placement on the Math wagon, and pushed him equally for his lurking and also because the more I looked back at D1, the more it felt like the Math wagon from D1 had scum on it whether Joth was town or Joth was scum. I also was having a love-hate kind of relationship with faust at that point, to where I had to kind of convince myself that even though my gut was calling him scum for no good reason, he's still more likely town than scum, and usually when faust is town he's a really good scum hunter. So with faust pushing gkrieg, and gkrieg looking like the scummy vote on the Math wagon, I started to feel really good about a gkrieg exile.

WCD was saying she didn't think gkrieg was scum by the end, but just wanted an exile. But I had total tunnel vision that gkrieg was lying scum right up to the flip, and the facts of his Math vote and my townread on Math were pushing me to think that way regardless of what he tried to say to defend himself. I also really did not like that he wasn't elaborating much on his Math vote when defending himself, which made me think even more that his Math votes were just manufactured scum votes.

The final irony is kinda like the first one. It turns out I actually was right about there being scum on the Math wagon, but I just had picked the wrong Math voter. 2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it. Then he started to suspect faust shortly after I announced that I suspected faust. What I didn't realize is that most likely he was looking at my posts for cues about how he should be reading things and copying my opinions D2 because I was a player who sheeped him D1. So yeah that basically brings us up to today where I am kicking myself for pushing gkrieg yesterday when I should have been pushing 2.7.

Other than that, I'm in a really awkward position here as VT because I don't have any special information I can share that reveals my towniness. I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate. I'm also thinking that scum is among players who don't know my meta very well, because everyone who knows me knows that I don't play anything like this at all as scum. So I know I said faust (I kind of always leap to that -- faust complex) but actually faust knows that I'm the towniest towny, so I don't think he's on the team here. I'm going to say the team is probably 2.7, with Jimmm and maybe Joth because those are the players who know my town MO the least and wouldn't know that I'm a bad target for a gambit like this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 07:43:37 pm
Another thing that makes me town here is just the meta aspect of my play, which I think some people are probably underestimating.

I literally have NEVER EVER been able to muster this kind of activity, scumhunting, or anything like it as mafia before. The closest I've ever come were two games, Breaking Bad mafia where I was basically serial killer, and Rewind Mafia II where I was a survivor-vigilante. But both of those games didn't feel anything like being on a conventional mafia team, and so I was able to filter out the fact that I was scum and focus on the very real scumhunting that I could do and basically just play a pro-town game as a non-town player.

In contrast to that, you can see #s based differences in my mafia games every single time.

So I dug around a lot and the last time I was straight mafia was in Space Alert and that is a really exemplary mafia game for me. In that game, I make a grand total of 57 posts across several days of being alive. Here's an exemplary post from that game:

I get Faust's case on me and I have lurked as scum before because I was overwhelmed as scum before. But actually I got over that and I was really really active as scum in Rewind and Breaking Bad, both of my last two games.

This game I felt overwhelmed because it's based on a board game I don't know how to play well and everyone was talking about how to do it. So I lurked because I really didn't know what to add.

Faust's case on me isn't bad as in he is scummy for making it, it's just out of date.

Sorry it took so long to respond to it. IRL sucked for a bit there.

Basically, I still hadn't figured out how to not lurk as mafia, so I point at my survivor game and my serial killer game as evidence that I don't lurk as scum, then complain about having a hard time getting into the setup as an excuse for lurking. But actually, I'm lurking again because I'm mafia and still don't know how to do it. Inspiring play!

I could dig more; I've been mafia about half a dozen times, and I lurked every single time and every single time it I was exiled. But it would honestly be a waste of time to find six more examples of scum!Iguana making excuses for lurking hard.

Instead, I challenge anyone here to find one single example of a mafia game where I play anywhere remotely close to how I'm playing in my most recent two games, where I rolled town. If you can find even one, I will vote for myself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 07:44:26 pm
(fun side note; that post took so long to write because I got distracted rereading my QT from Rewind mafia and getting lost in the nostalgia of being a survivor. That was a fun game!)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 08:19:52 pm
Alright, just for kicks, and because I'm ill and called in sick and have nothing to do today, and because also it's starting to feel like a nuclear holocaust happened based on thread activity, here's one more classic scum!iguana post:

I can't believe that D1 of this game is now approaching 1200 posts. Has there ever been a game like this before? This is so so crazy.

I'm seriously getting exhausted with it. I'm starting to feel like scum just wins here because everyone looks the same.

I mean even if we do get a scum flip, then we have to go back and look at 1200 posts of stuff to figure out their partners. So crazy.

I feel demoralized.

In this game, I actually managed to make a fair number of big posts at first, but later in the game I couldn't keep up anymore because the weight of all the lying was really getting to me, and I eventually revealed myself to be scum with my angst and exhaustion.

That has not happened this game, because I am NOT scum NOT lying and instead I am in the exhilarating position of being town fighting for my life!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 08:30:27 pm

my order would be

Joth/Iguana
E!
Math
MiX/Faust
Jim/WCD
Swowl

But yes, if we did do it, I would be fine with Iguana being first. Though you suggesting it makes me slightly weary.

Ok, I'm officially moving on from the iguana!meta!wormhole.

Let's not derail this day. Math should be the next one to claim. MiX already did (well faust did it for him). Then Jim, then Swowl. Either that, or we are not massclaiming because today is just about 2.7 vs. Iguana.  Personally I believe it's going to be better to get more claims out there, because that might help PoE 2.7's partners and show people that he's scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 09:10:35 pm
Well then. I do agree, iguana. You have played a good game. Without my result against you it seems likely that you would have been able to survive until the end and get a nice win.

But results are what they are, and you are scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:15:11 pm
Results: I'm a cop! Actually a 1 shot cop..... who didn't feel like using my ability N1.

And we're supposed to take this seriously?

Results are only results when they are true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:16:39 pm
I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 09:17:10 pm
Results: I'm a cop! Actually a 1 shot cop..... who didn't feel like using my ability N1.

And we're supposed to take this seriously?

Results are only results when they are true.

Well, you don't have to. Town should seriously consider it and vote appropriately.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 09:18:12 pm
I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?

I see you did some setup analysis in the scum QT N0. Not surprising.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 09:22:50 pm
Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:26:17 pm
I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?

I see you did some setup analysis in the scum QT N0. Not surprising.

Yeah except this isnt exactly the first time I've played Asher++ and I read the gkrieg/Ash masons one where it all came down to bad analysis of how likely roles are to appear, so I just know this stuff a priori.

This is another reason we need to mass claim. To see how likely his role is to even exist in the first place. (Probably not, because he made it up)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:27:23 pm
I mean seriously, e wants town to believe he's fake claiming town who backs off his fake claim at the slightest provocation. How does that make any sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 09:28:58 pm
Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 09:30:18 pm
I'm so suspicious of everyone on this wagon, because I literally just could not see the case at all. I think we 100% exile on the gkrieg wagon tomorrow. There is no way that wagon isn't riddled with scum. Gonna say 2/3.

(the wagon: gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguana, Jim, math, MiX, WCD)

Assuming I believe the MiX/WCD masons (which for now I do... haven't looked into what kind of gambit would be required to fake that!), if joth's right that it's 2/3 on the wagon, then from my perspective that's 2 out of faust, iguana, and Jim.  I could see that being a possibility.  I'm not convinced it's 2/3, but to get the hammer off in such a situation (with things moving around so much), I suspect it usually would be 2/3 or 3/3 in this situation.  I'd suspect a fully/mostly town-driven wagon would be more camped out on and scum just letting it happen.  Just a typical expectation though, not a guarantee here.

I'm not going to sit on this too much more at this point.  It's all hypothetical and guesswork.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:32:39 pm
Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

This is a very good argument for why you are fake claiming scum!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 30, 2021, 09:35:02 pm
Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

For example, look at M132s scum QT. https://quicktopic.com/53/H/RapQKYh2hNSEq

(I was looking for scum!faust games and found this one)

Open setup with known modifications. Not Asher++ but still similar setup theory talk is available. What do scum immediately do? Talk what roles town might have. The concept that scum came unprepared or disorganized into D3 just doesn't ring true to me
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 09:35:49 pm
Rereading end of D2... I was going to make a long multi-post quote, but I'm breaking it up for easier reference and reading.

We should strongly consider a massclaim start of day 3.

We'll be at 9 players, 3 scum (barring successful protection) which means we need 5/6 town to agree to get scum exiled without a bus. We're going to need maximum information to have any chance.

Joth later said (haven't gone to look in D3 posts yet for where) that maybe it wasn't a good idea to post this yesterday, as it got scum thinking about what to claim.  Not sure the validity of that, as I'm sure most people (scum and town) had already been thinking about when massclaim time comes... as evidenced by even e stating D3 that he wasn't sure whether to claim 1-shot cop or full cop, and decided to claim the 1-shot.

I disagree. In an open setup like this one, scum thinks about what town roles may or may not exist immediately and associated ideas for fake claims immediately.

And if anyone thinks scum wouldn't have seen the writing on the wall that a D3 mass claim would come up after not catching any scum D1 or D2 you haven't played mafia on this site very long

Well, my EoD2 read didn't take as long as expected.  Ready to move onto the 10 pages of D3!

Also, I haven't played mafia on this site very long... and I've never played this setup before, I don't believe.  So I'm reading and learning these things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 09:38:37 pm
2nd and 3rd posts of D3:

Let's go with my best read from D2 that I should never have abandoned and (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877661#msg877661)

Vote: iguana

Curious. Was this a gamble?

I feel that I need to reread. The gkrieg flip calls a few convictions into question.

In hindsight, e's post makes sense, as he later claims a scum result on iguana.  But that was a very fast (and very bold) reply by faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 09:48:40 pm
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

iguana wants massclaim.
then e says it's not a good idea.
I think joth was next to weigh in, saying he's pro massclaim.
Jim says he's fine with it.

Then faust says he solved the game:
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:50:52 pm
Okay, I'm just making sense of this now. But this is 2.7's plan.

His team already knew they can't get me misexiled without a claim, because 2.7 tried that yesterday and no one bit or even listened to him. So he decided he needs an incriminating result on me to get me exiled. This puts scum into a very likely LyLo position once I die, ensuring that whoever else it is that they think they can get easily misexiled will win them the game.

Most likely, they had looked at MiX and WCD Iso's and figured out they were probably masons. And so they knew that PoE was going to make it very difficult for them unless they got rid of a towny player.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 30, 2021, 09:59:01 pm
Though we don't necessarily want to go for iguana next. There is a nonzero chance that he's town.

but why does E! jump the gun like this?

At first this didn't make sense to me either. Why not wait until Lylo to claim and go for the win? Then I realized, waiting until Lylo would look scummy as hell, and there would be no way that they'd get me exiled at LyLo. Plus, before LyLo, a million things could happen to PoE scum and put them in a worse position for a gambit like this. Doing it now, 2.7's team just sacrifices one player, and gets themselves to an automatic LyLo by exiling me.

The true towny day to claim as a 1 shot cop is D2, after you get your result. Claiming D3 when scum is one vote away from LyLo is scummy, because it puts their team in a position where they can get to a garanteed double LyLo without having to do any real work except an easy claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 10:00:28 pm
The issue I have with a mass claim is that if someone had a skum result, they would just say it at this point. And as that is the only thing that really makes it super viable, I can't decide if it would be better to wait or not.

Swowl sets up the claim.  Is this Swowl prompting partner e to pull the gambit they discussed at night?  Seems too obvious.  But Swowl has been so absent for major parts of this game, maybe he didn't get to respond in night chat?

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

And then the claim comes out.  If he really did get a result on iguana, why didn't he post this at the beginning of the day?  We're likely 1 wrong exile away from lylo, so finding a scum can start the train of finding partners.  If you have a result as a town, why not open the day with it, rather than just jumping on him, as if it were a continuation of your D2 scumread?  I just don't get it.

Why wait until people don't bite, and then pull out a claim of cop?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 10:04:30 pm
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?

I was wondering who would bring that up first.

I am just a lowly one shot cop.

This again looks very scummy.  Just claim cop to start (again, not at start of day, when it would have actually made sense), hope that claims continue so you can see if full cop is a viable fakeclaim.  But once challenged, rather than realize he could end up getting trapped, he plays it safe and goes for the more likely 1-shot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 10:05:22 pm
This is a fun exercise to see who believes me and who doesn't.

I don't see this being a comment town makes right after admitting they initially claimed cop and then just changed their claim to 1-shot cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 10:09:51 pm
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Yes but iguana is the exile that scum wants us to do, probably because he's the least important role in their operation.

faust has had quite the takes on this whole situation.  Maybe I'm being swayed by him a bit, reading the D3 posts knowing what has all been said already.  Now we get into his theory (I believe it was fleeting, and not still believed?) that it's an e/iguana both scum gambit.  I think this is pushing it much more towards the "not likely" side though.  Why not play today to push to lylo, rather than sacrifice one of your team for the towncred and long game?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on September 30, 2021, 10:20:31 pm
Well, that's all my time on the computer tonight.  I got to the end of page 60, and will see if I can mobile post a few more thoughts for following pages later this evening.  Otherwise, I'll be back in the morning to finish catching up with my thoughts and reread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:17:40 am
This is a fun exercise to see who believes me and who doesn't.

I don't see this being a comment town makes right after admitting they initially claimed cop and then just changed their claim to 1-shot cop.

I was a bit too stream of conscious there wasn't i
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:20:17 am
Welcome back Ahab. Glad you're having fun hunting down the great green iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:25:37 am
One thing about all my play today.

If you think I am scum, then you assume I talked with my partners about a claim. As a logical conclusion to that, we decided that I was going to claim 1-shot cop with a scum result on iguana.

I then went rogue and claimed full cop and then quickly back tracked to 1 shot.

Except... If I did allegedly discuss 1-shot vs full on my alleged scum QT, you can bet I would have been talked off the ledge and done the "safe" claim.

The only way I play my cousin this poorly is in the moment, figure it out as I go. Which, after receiving my result moments before the start of day is exactly what I did
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:28:20 am
Welcome back Ahab. Glad you're having fun hunting down the great green iguana.

He is a tricky one.

What I had to do was catch him unawares, baking in the sun. You see, reptiles are cold blooded, they can't hide under a rock forever.

Then BAM!

trap was sprung
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:28:58 am
No, if you are town you claim your role and your result. If you are scum, you have to make something up and that is where there is room for error.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:30:42 am
Also I know we're being figurative here but you basically just claimed scum again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:32:07 am
One thing about all my play today.

If you think I am scum, then you assume I talked with my partners about a claim. As a logical conclusion to that, we decided that I was going to claim 1-shot cop with a scum result on iguana.

I then went rogue and claimed full cop and then quickly back tracked to 1 shot.

Except... If I did allegedly discuss 1-shot vs full on my alleged scum QT, you can bet I would have been talked off the ledge and done the "safe" claim.

The only way I play my cousin claim this poorly is in the moment, figure it out as I go. Which, after receiving my result moments before the start of day is exactly what I did
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:32:30 am
No, if you are town you claim your role and your result. If you are scum, you have to make something up and that is where there is room for error.

That is completely not true
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:38:04 am
Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:40:01 am
Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.

I never lied about my role
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:43:36 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:45:34 am
Would I do it differently in the future? Sure.

Did it sound good in my head at the time. Yup.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:46:07 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

Is a 1-shot cop a cop?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:46:16 am
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Hopefully we move forward with this in some meaningful way tomorrow. I'm ready for anything at this point and I'm not letting Ahab get a free scum double LyLo out of a bogus fake claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:47:12 am
On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.

Is a 1-shot cop a cop?


Lol ridiculous. They are two different roles next to each other in the setup description. Ok now I'm really going to bed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:47:35 am
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Hopefully we move forward with this in some meaningful way tomorrow. I'm ready for anything at this point and I'm not letting Ahab get a free scum double LyLo out of a bogus fake claim.

It's only double lylo because iguana knows he is a guaranteed exile tomorrow after my flip if I do get exiled today
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 03:21:18 am
FYI still sorting through everything that's happened Today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 08:13:35 am
Happy October, everyone! It’s the season of candy corn pumpkins!! We need ADK’s stabby kitten avatar to ring in the season!

I’m catching up, but would like to hear some from others (Swowl, Jimmm, MiX).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 01, 2021, 08:19:42 am
Happy October, everyone! It’s the season of candy corn pumpkins!! We need ADK’s stabby kitten avatar to ring in the season!

I’m catching up, but would like to hear some from others (Swowl, Jimmm, MiX).

Remind me I’ll post a picture of my Jack-o-lantern tonight when I light the candle.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 08:24:07 am
Happy October, everyone! It’s the season of candy corn pumpkins!! We need ADK’s stabby kitten avatar to ring in the season!

I’m catching up, but would like to hear some from others (Swowl, Jimmm, MiX).

I'm waiting for the massclaim to end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 09:03:42 am
Happy October, everyone! It’s the season of candy corn pumpkins!! We need ADK’s stabby kitten avatar to ring in the season!

I’m catching up, but would like to hear some from others (Swowl, Jimmm, MiX).

I'm waiting for the massclaim to end.

This is a valid question. There was a lot of hesitation or resistance to massclaim. Then e jumped the order and faust called out masons.

Are we finishing the classroom to try and sort out e vs iguana? Or do we deal with that today and likely finish massclaim tomorrow? At this point, I'd be okay going either way.

I believe I'm next in line. So if 2 or 3 more people say go ahead and there's no resistance, I'll continue the claims. But if there is still hesitation, then we should probably wait.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 09:39:09 am
Yes but not enough to do a mad sacrifice play while they’re currently bowligg by a perfect game…. Cmon faust.
What do you think is going on?

Either e is a cop and iguana is scum or e is scum and iguana is town. Scum might be scared enough to take the 1v1 here.

Hmm, the more I think about it, we really would never exile e if we went for iguana now and he flipped scum. But I also know that if we went for e and he flipped scum.

What if this is the world’s greatest Xenatos gambit and faust, e, and iguana are all scum? And it’s like in those heist movies where you think the thieves are caught but then the cop who has caught them is just another thief?

I guess this is a long way of saying I like what you’re saying but I don’t trust you.

Is this a stunt faust, e, and iguana might pull?  I could definitely see faust trying something like this... I'm not sure I know iguana or e well enough to say about them.  It does seem bold, but it could definitely lock in the long game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 09:50:58 am
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

Are you still on this set of beliefs for setup?  Is it possible that e is a cop and there are less T's than expected?  Might the scum have a strongman and they went after LL for a different reason?  Or is this what you would have us believe?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 10:05:34 am
I think we finish the claims, so go ahead math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 10:06:31 am
e, why iguana instead of me or math or faust?

This question needs to be looked at from 2 different perspectives.

If e is scum, why did he pick iguana instead of me, joth, or faust, as the person to frame?  Was iguana onto him or his team?  Was it more likely that people will believe a guilty on iguana than one of the rest of us?  (I think not - I think it's more likely him faking a guilty on me would make it very easy to exile me today, as many people have already suspected me and I was a viable wagon both D1 and D2).

If e is town, again, why did he pick iguana?  He has explained this fairly extensively, but that seems planned and calculated.  Why focus on what he claims is a single scumread of his from the previous day, rather than picking someone that more people seem suspicious of?  It's almost likely he was wanting to confirm the majority of the group's townread on iguana (in contradiction to his own scumread)... but using a 1-shot cop to confirm a townie, rather than trying to find someone more likely to be scum doesn't seem to be in town's best interests.

If he is town, and he was trying to reconcile many townreads on iguana with his scumread, then he got lucky and we're in a better situation (maybe).  But I don't see a town cop claiming the way he did.  It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 01, 2021, 10:19:44 am
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 10:27:06 am
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

This is a good summary, although i think all the factors pointed out by math right before this point much more to my being town. My argument is admittedly a terrible one - I played this so poorly I could not be scum - but it is true. No way my scum teammates wouldn't talk me off the ledge from my crazy schemes.

I just ask you to take the risk on town!e playing poorly and exile iguana based on my result
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 10:29:48 am
I still have 3 more pages to go through and reply to things... but I'm heading out for work again and want to get these thoughts out here first.

I believe we have to go with e or iguana today.  It's likely 1 of them are scum (not possible 0 of them, otherwise e's claim makes no sense... slightly possibly it's 2, but I'll comment on that at the end).  So if we pick right, we are in a much better situation, and likely have one more mis-exile if we mess up in the next day or two.  If we pick wrong, we are basically in triple lylo.

Option 1:
Let's say we vote out iguana today.  Let's take e's claim at face value, and vote out the "found scum".

(a) If iguana's scum, great, we got one!  But we don't know if it's an iguana/e gambit to get e town-cred or if e is actually the 1-shot cop he claimed.  That's okay though because we get another set of night actions (potentially, if any left) and another day to figure it out, and likely have a mis-exile available still (barring a wrong vig kill or something odd like that).  I'd like to, in this situation, give e town-cred and assume he's correct, and not setting up the gambit for the win... but discussions and future flips would help confirm or deny that.

(b) If iguana's town, then we know e set him up.  We exile e tomorrow, but we're at triple lylo then (and double lylo after exiling e).  Not great, but at least we have a guarantee that e is scum.

Option 2:
Let's say we believe e is scum and determined it's time to make the bold scum move... frame iguana.  We vote out e today instead.

(a) If e is town, then we're in the triple lylo, but we know iguana is obviously scum then, vote him out next day, and are effectively at double lylo.

(b) If e is scum, I think we're in the same situation as 1.(a) above... great we got one, but we don't know if they pulled a gambit (and iguana is also scum), or if e was the only one trying to get a townie exiled with his claim and push for triple lylo.  In this situation, if we flip e as scum, again, I'd be inclined to think iguana is town... I just don't think I can believe that bold of a move would be made this early, when scum is playing a perfect game so far.


I was hoping running through these things would make one option revealed as better than the others.  But it looks like mirror images, unfortunately.  That means we have to go with our guts, and see if we feel this move is more likely town!e or scum!e.

I haven't decided yet.  I'm leaning toward scum!e, just based on timing, the vague claim, and a few other little things.  But I'm not putting a vote there yet.

PPE: 2
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 10:31:31 am
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

I read this and thought... "oh, that breaks the mirror/tie between the two options" - e was 1-shot cop, so he's practically VT now anyway.  If iguana might still have a role, it's better to keep him around.

Then I realized, I believe iguana also claimed VT (in the 3 pages I haven't gotten back to rereading yet... and I'm late for heading to work, so I can't go look right now).  So again, we're no better off one way or the other, randomly/statistically.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 01, 2021, 11:26:25 am
I could definitely see faust trying something like this... I'm not sure I know iguana or e well enough to say about them.
I feel like people seriously misunderstand my scum game. I'm not about big wacky plans that might just work out. I shoot down such plans when my partners express them. I like to keep my options open as much as possible, and when I do follow a plan, I always try to have enough plausible deniability so that I can switch gears if I feel that is necessary. The plan proposed above... is none of that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 12:03:49 pm
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Hopefully we move forward with this in some meaningful way tomorrow. I'm ready for anything at this point and I'm not letting Ahab get a free scum double LyLo out of a bogus fake claim.

It's only double lylo because iguana knows he is a guaranteed exile tomorrow after my flip if I do get exiled today

No, you are a guaranteed exile tomorrow if they exile me today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 12:12:59 pm
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

This is a good summary, although i think all the factors pointed out by math right before this point much more to my being town. My argument is admittedly a terrible one - I played this so poorly I could not be scum - but it is true. No way my scum teammates wouldn't talk me off the ledge from my crazy schemes.

I just ask you to take the risk on town!e playing poorly and exile iguana based on my result

You are acting like scum have no individual autonomy and that is not true. You may be on a team, but you're still one person on the other side of the screen typing out the words.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 12:30:22 pm
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

This is a good summary, although i think all the factors pointed out by math right before this point much more to my being town. My argument is admittedly a terrible one - I played this so poorly I could not be scum - but it is true. No way my scum teammates wouldn't talk me off the ledge from my crazy schemes.

I just ask you to take the risk on town!e playing poorly and exile iguana based on my result

This argument almost works. Sucks that math's scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 12:32:09 pm
This day won't go anywhere until Swowl confirms faust's suspicions. And math should claim before Swowl. So, math, can you claim?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 12:41:27 pm
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

This is a good summary, although i think all the factors pointed out by math right before this point much more to my being town. My argument is admittedly a terrible one - I played this so poorly I could not be scum - but it is true. No way my scum teammates wouldn't talk me off the ledge from my crazy schemes.

I just ask you to take the risk on town!e playing poorly and exile iguana based on my result

This argument almost works. Sucks that math's scum.

I don't follow. Math could totally be scum. Not sure what the correlation is here
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 12:48:04 pm
The simplest explanation is that e is scum and iguana is town.

Faust’s idea that they’re both scum is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

There’s obviously no world where they’re both town.

And if e is town and iguana is scum, well it’s not the end of the world. We have a guaranteed scum exile tomorrow, and e was a 1-shot cop anyway.

This is a good summary, although i think all the factors pointed out by math right before this point much more to my being town. My argument is admittedly a terrible one - I played this so poorly I could not be scum - but it is true. No way my scum teammates wouldn't talk me off the ledge from my crazy schemes.

I just ask you to take the risk on town!e playing poorly and exile iguana based on my result

This argument almost works. Sucks that math's scum.

I don't follow. Math could totally be scum. Not sure what the correlation is here

It can't be a misplay for you not to cop math if you're both scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:24:42 pm
So 2.7's EoD2 play is actually very scummy.

Here is 2.7's last vote of the day:

The main reason I think WCD is scummy is how she has maintained her scum read on EFHW. Opens up with a casual EFHW vote, then builds on it, explains why it makes sense this game, etc., etc.  But then, when Joth votes for EFHW, WCD asks for additional rationale.

vote:  EFHW

Why’s that?

Why is that? Why would town who has spent the majority of their day thinking about how EFHW is scum this game need EXTRA reasons to vote for EFHW. Or question why other people have "seen the light" and joined the EFHW wagon. It just feels....off.

Then D2 there is this:

Didds, what happened to your scumread on EFHW?

Its still there, but I am trying to be fair to her...I think I find her scummy because she is cagey. I am so open that I grapple with close to the vest folks. But, she was one of the few people trying to get an exile off at the EOD, and she was so willing to do it that I don't know that it was scummy.  Her wagon was 4 yesterday and never got an higher so I don't think there is enough town will to make that happen today. So, I have decided to just wait and see on her. Same with Joth.

This feels extremely scummy to me. More specifically, it feels like scum who had moved on from her fake scum read on EFHW but then when reminded about it kept it alive, because you never know when you need to get that mis-exile in. Basically, I don't buy WCD's read on EFHW as being a genuine town reading another player as scum.

vote: WCD

So 2.7 is getting ready to frame WCD here pushing the WCD case which led to the CFD@WCD. Looking at 2.7's EoD, I'm actually realizing that the scum team likely did not solve the WCD is a mason idea overnight. Rather, 2.7 was working on building a case that WCD is scum, and the EFHW kill was meant to make her look scummier by proving that her tunnel on EFHW was wrong.

So the plan was most likely to get a fake result on me today, get me exiled, then go for WCD as the final easy misexile at the double-LyLo that would result out of my misexile --> e's correct exile --> final day misexile WCD as the 'scummy' player. This indicates that the scum team did not have a second easy misexile that they felt they could easily push through. Or at the very least that 2.7 was overconfident about his ability to get a free exile out of me with a result, which makes sense given his own meta of overestimating himself.

vote: faust

Hmmm

2.5 hours to go and gkrieg is acting like wants to be exiled.

At least, not joining a viable alternative

This is 2.7's last post of the day, where he hedges of gkrieg and sort of softly indicates that he would support the gkrieg exile without actually committing to it. So this is just the classic scum tactic of wanting a town exile to go through, but trying to make sure that there are as many townies on the exile wagon as possible. Note that he hung back as the masons deliberated about whether or not to hammer gkrieg. My assumption is that he would have been able to come in and vote for gkrieg if he felt there wasn't enough town support for the exile in order to make sure that the misexile went through and the tide turned last minute toward one of his partners.

TLDR 2.7 spent the end of day 2 pushing the WCD exile while hanging around to be ready to support the gkrieg exile if needed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 01:28:17 pm
So iguana, that last post feels like you believe you know who my alleged partners are.

Who are they?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:28:31 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 01:30:03 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.

He found out me and Didds were masons when faust claimed that for us.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:36:58 pm
So iguana, that last post feels like you believe you know who my alleged partners are.

Who are they?

I really don't. It's frustrating. At first I was thinking Jim/Joth/2.7 because of the wrong meta analysis the team did in terms of picking on me. But since then I've realized it may have actually been your team's idea to pick on a hard exile because you didn't feel you could get two easy exiles through. So that points at scummy looking players.

I don't think it can be Joth/Math/2.7 because both of your partners wouldn't be voting/considering voting for you right now (unless Math is just toying with me and ultimately plans to vote me, in which case Math looks like a partner and that is sort of a mindfuck on how I've been reading this game.)

Swowl also looks like a very likely partner at this point with how quickly he jumped to the conclusion that 2.7 was telling the truth and I was lying. And with Swowl's lack of activity so far this game, that makes more sense that he would just let 2.7 take the reigns on a gambit like this.

Jim also looks like a partner with his hedging, and that would make more sense out of D1 if Jim is scum and Math is town where you came in to rescue Jim by casting shade on Math and starting up the D1 Math wagon. But IDK about Jim yet and where he votes here will obviously be illuminating.

I still think Faust could be a partner with his super weird theories. It looks like he's going hard for getting the misexile on me through no matter what happens with you and that is super scummy IMO. Faust on the team also makes sense with the idea that the team solved MiX/WCD are masons overnight and therefore knew that they needed a false guilty to stay ahead of PoE. 

All that being said, I really need to go back and reread everyone I just listed and look for partner interactions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:40:13 pm
It's also scummy that 2.7 up to this point hasn't really been making a case on me, and just responding to the case on him. Now that I've said it of course he will probably try, but good luck finding my partners 2.7, I don't have any!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:42:04 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.

He found out me and Didds were masons when faust claimed that for us.

Yeah unless he's scum (possibly with faust) and he just pretended to find that out because he wouldn't have wanted to tip off that he knew that. But with the EFHW kill I think it is more likely that 2.7 was trying to frame WCD for LyLo and didn't know about masons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 01:42:17 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.

He found out me and Didds were masons when faust claimed that for us.

Speaking of this, why does town claim masons for you?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 01:51:12 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.

He found out me and Didds were masons when faust claimed that for us.

Speaking of this, why does town claim masons for you?

Cause faust had solved the game and he was itching to tell us the solve.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 01:55:22 pm
Really liking all of the gkrieg posts, they feel very town.
-snip-

Okay, just found this. It is totally scummy that 2.7 goes from "gkrieg feels very town" to his weak noncommittal final comment on gkrieg that is setting him up to be able to vote gkrieg if necessary.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 01:56:36 pm
It's also very clear that 2.7's top 'scumread' at the end of the day was WCD. So if he's town, why not cop your top scum read on WCD?

What makes more sense is that 2.7 didn't want to do a false guilty of WCD EITHER because he felt she would be an easy misexile for LyLo that he needed to keep around OR because the team had figured out that MiX/Didds were masons overnight and he knew that a false guilty on her would lead to a CC and his exile.

So whether 2.7 had figured out masons ahead of time or not, it makes more sense as scum that he would choose me as the cop target and not his actual stated top scum read.

He found out me and Didds were masons when faust claimed that for us.

Speaking of this, why does town claim masons for you?

Cause faust had solved the game and he was itching to tell us the solve.

Yeah, I will give you that.

I was going for he was scum who had figured out the game and was excited to get town cred.

We should finish the mass claim at this point for sure, but if all remaining claims are VT scum knew it was either TTT or TTTT.

That is why faust figured out it was masons. He had found a 1-shot doc with the NK.
He had found a 1-shot cop with my claim.
He was looking for one more letter, and figured it out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 01:59:28 pm
Really liking all of the gkrieg posts, they feel very town.
-snip-

Okay, just found this. It is totally scummy that 2.7 goes from "gkrieg feels very town" to his weak noncommittal final comment on gkrieg that is setting him up to be able to vote gkrieg if necessary.

Yes, I would have hammered gkrieg for an exile. Did I want to? No.

Was gkrieg flailing around looking for random last minute exiles that did him no good? Yes.

Did I want him to stop that and vote Didds? Yes.

Grasping at straws here iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:02:25 pm
These two posts are literally the only times that 2.7 ever mentions Swowl, and both of them he has absolutely no opinion on Swowl at all.

so, read joth, faust, math, MiX, LL, and iguana.  From that group I would say:

more scummy: faust, iguana
more towny: joth, math, MiX

I am suspicious of my fellow lurkers, especially because of the no exile on D1, but I like my vote where it is at for now.  Remind me to read EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg later. I don't need to read Jimmmmm, I am confident in my D1 read that he is town.

And to be honest, there is some PoE confirmation bias that makes me think faust is scum. Looking at 3 scum in 10.

I think joth, jimmmm, and MiX are town, 3/7 removing them.
If iguana v faust is town v scum, then it is 1 scum (faust) in that group of 5 with two more in {EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg, math}

How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

It seems like the team is likely 2.7, Swowl, and one of Jim/Joth/Math/Faust. The last one will be harder to figure out and likely that's what they're counting on for their winning at LyLo gambit.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:04:18 pm
Really liking all of the gkrieg posts, they feel very town.
-snip-

Okay, just found this. It is totally scummy that 2.7 goes from "gkrieg feels very town" to his weak noncommittal final comment on gkrieg that is setting him up to be able to vote gkrieg if necessary.

Yes, I would have hammered gkrieg for an exile. Did I want to? No.

Was gkrieg flailing around looking for random last minute exiles that did him no good? Yes.

Did I want him to stop that and vote Didds? Yes.

Grasping at straws here iguana.

How is pointing out that scum was lining up an alternative misexile (WCD) while letting the thread know that they'd be willing to hammer the first misexile (gkrieg) grasping at straws? I am literally describing what you were doing as scum and it is plain as day.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:04:45 pm
There are only 4 people who actually know the truth of what is going on here.

Myself, iguana, and 2 more scum. While I may have skewed view of "lurking" for D3, I feel like at least one of the two scum is not very active today hoping my exile just slides through.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:07:25 pm
Joth is being really self righteous : ( Also scum often claims town after an exile because it can throw off exactly these kinds of twilight discussions. So there is absolutely still a chance that gkrieg is scum.

Oh yeah, you would never set up another mis-exile....
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:09:22 pm
Joth is being really self righteous : ( Also scum often claims town after an exile because it can throw off exactly these kinds of twilight discussions. So there is absolutely still a chance that gkrieg is scum.

Oh yeah, you would never set up another mis-exile....

Joth was making me feel like shit! I HATE misexiling and I do it ALL THE TIME. This is literally why I quit playing!! Because I am bad at finding scum! And joth was sitting there rubbing it in my face in the thread! Setting up his misexile? That is total BS
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:12:08 pm
Joth is being really self righteous : ( Also scum often claims town after an exile because it can throw off exactly these kinds of twilight discussions. So there is absolutely still a chance that gkrieg is scum.

Oh yeah, you would never set up another mis-exile....

Joth was making me feel like shit! I HATE misexiling and I do it ALL THE TIME. This is literally why I quit playing!! Because I am bad at finding scum! And joth was sitting there rubbing it in my face in the thread! Setting up his misexile? That is total BS

You haven't done it yet this game. You are 1/1 exiling people not in your faction
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:18:29 pm
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

funny timing. I was just gonna ask E/Joth what they thought.
I am factoring in the EFHW exile rn. one sec.

okay so this is literally the first time that Swowl EVER mentions 2.7 and it's on D3. They are totally scum together and have been using a strategy of hard ignoring each other in the thread while letting townies and probably one active scum fight things out.

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)

I've already pointed out Swowl's super scummy "This is the most frustrating game I've ever played" exaggeration. Now we can add the "Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town" as a scumslip for the fact that all of the active players he is reading are town and he's having trouble making fake scumreads on a bunch of townies due to his strategy of ignoring his scumpartner 2.7.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:19:30 pm
Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkreig13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

The more I look back the more I think math is in fact scum.

One reason why math didn't get exiled D1, I colored the wagon just for fun, even if you flip red/green with iguana and me that wagon on math looks pretty towny and then has that single bus.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:21:56 pm
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

funny timing. I was just gonna ask E/Joth what they thought.
I am factoring in the EFHW exile rn. one sec.

okay so this is literally the first time that Swowl EVER mentions 2.7 and it's on D3. They are totally scum together and have been using a strategy of hard ignoring each other in the thread while letting townies and probably one active scum fight things out.

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)

I've already pointed out Swowl's super scummy "This is the most frustrating game I've ever played" exaggeration. Now we can add the "Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town" as a scumslip for the fact that all of the active players he is reading are town and he's having trouble making fake scumreads on a bunch of townies due to his strategy of ignoring his scumpartner 2.7.

Just like you ignored faust! Remember! Like I pointed out in my original case on you!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:30:37 pm
One last thing about Swowl is that he's one of the other player's who has been calling me scummy consistently throughout the game without ever giving a single reason, so it makes sense that he would be 2.7's partner here and they would feel that they could get a misexile through if they tipped the scales with a fake result.

You can see that here:

Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Here where he basically calls me the scummiest player by suggesting I claim first:

I agree with Iguana
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Very good. I agree about the mass claim, and I have also solved the game.

So let's start with iguana

my order would be

Joth/Iguana
E!
Math
MiX/Faust
Jim/WCD
Swowl

But yes, if we did do it, I would be fine with Iguana being first. Though you suggesting it makes me slightly weary.

& again here with the super early jump on to me:
I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:32:09 pm
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

funny timing. I was just gonna ask E/Joth what they thought.
I am factoring in the EFHW exile rn. one sec.

okay so this is literally the first time that Swowl EVER mentions 2.7 and it's on D3. They are totally scum together and have been using a strategy of hard ignoring each other in the thread while letting townies and probably one active scum fight things out.

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)

I've already pointed out Swowl's super scummy "This is the most frustrating game I've ever played" exaggeration. Now we can add the "Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town" as a scumslip for the fact that all of the active players he is reading are town and he's having trouble making fake scumreads on a bunch of townies due to his strategy of ignoring his scumpartner 2.7.

Just like you ignored faust! Remember! Like I pointed out in my original case on you!

Except you EXAGGERATED the extent to which I ignored faust! You BS posted that I had only four posts about faust when I am positive I talked to him more than just four posts! At the time it didn't bother me because I was being STUPID and I thought you were TOWNY. But now it's obvious you were scum and for some reason you felt I was an easy target!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 02:34:07 pm
Blablabla.

To the town of you: stop interacting with scum. Obviously this makes e scum because he knows better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:35:52 pm
How likely do you think it is that all scum were on the gkrieg wagon?

Interested in Joth/Swowl thoughts on this question

funny timing. I was just gonna ask E/Joth what they thought.
I am factoring in the EFHW exile rn. one sec.

okay so this is literally the first time that Swowl EVER mentions 2.7 and it's on D3. They are totally scum together and have been using a strategy of hard ignoring each other in the thread while letting townies and probably one active scum fight things out.

What more information are you asking for that I haven't provided?

A better reason?
Sarcasm - I am just frustrated with this situation. I genuinely believe that I have a solid concept in Math v Joth. I also very much believe that Math has been towny in their responses since I posted my skum read on them, and Joth has been skummy in their defense of my push.

I also get that I am clearly tunneling and I am seriously trying to not do it, but every freekin time I go back to re reading I just end up back at joth.

I have been unfair in my frustration regarding you and Joth being suspicious of my switch from Math to Joth. For Joth, it is hard, because obviously I am reading them as skum. For you, it is frustrating because I feel like I am wasting time trying to convince a TR of mine that I am town.

I feel like the GK alt wagon is a lazy af alternative that was brought up as an alt to Joth/Math, which just makes me feel more strongly about it being one of Joth/Math. Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town. Which is why, blaming myself too for not moving earlier on day 1, we need to freeking exile on day 1.

I will take the weekend to do an overhaul and see what I can see. But like I can chalk this up to one of the most frustrating games I have ever played (maybe second to BSG S1)

I've already pointed out Swowl's super scummy "This is the most frustrating game I've ever played" exaggeration. Now we can add the "Or we are just fucked and just everyone is town" as a scumslip for the fact that all of the active players he is reading are town and he's having trouble making fake scumreads on a bunch of townies due to his strategy of ignoring his scumpartner 2.7.

Just like you ignored faust! Remember! Like I pointed out in my original case on you!

Except you EXAGGERATED the extent to which I ignored faust! You BS posted that I had only four posts about faust when I am positive I talked to him more than just four posts! At the time it didn't bother me because I was being STUPID and I thought you were TOWNY. But now it's obvious you were scum and for some reason you felt I was an easy target!!

Challenge accepted.

Time for a mass dump of D1/D2 iguana to prove I am right. Of course you believe you interacted more, you had all of N0 and N1 to interact

This will take time (especially because I am going to do this on a computer not on my phone, and I have to finish cleaning the kitchen, etc.... You will get this tonight though in my next post)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:36:37 pm
Blablabla.

To the town of you: stop interacting with scum. Obviously this makes e scum because he knows better.

Ok, I lied. I will reply to this one.

Yes, I do know better, but iguana is such a good sport, I am having fun
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 02:37:03 pm
It's why I make a rule for myself to never post in twilight. It never helps anyone
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:50:27 pm
Okay, I talk about/to faust in #198, #201, #229, #232, #314, #315, #316, #540, & #776 all before #811 where I voted faust and 2.7 jumped on me for it.

and that is not including all the times that I mention or interact with other people's reads on faust when I was doing my mid-D1 rereads.

Also, in #540 & #776, especially the first one, I talk about how I am beginning to be suspicious of faust basically because of the bad vibes I was getting from him.

Also Also, in my mid-day reread of faust & Jim, I specifically mention how I didn't spend as much time reading faust because I couldn't isolate any useful alingment indicative information out of his giant D1 fight with Jim. 

Then, 2.7 jumps on me with this:

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana
(added bold for emphasis)

I would very much love to hear which of my 10 posts about faust was supposed to count and which were not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 01, 2021, 02:52:20 pm
Blablabla.

To the town of you: stop interacting with scum. Obviously this makes e scum because he knows better.

Fine. My weekend is Friday/Saturday so it's actually starting about now anyway (wife is about to get off work). I feel I have defended myself sufficiently. If 2.7 wants to say more, he can. If people have questions, I will happily answer them.

Town, please make the right choice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 03:05:12 pm
There have been a few people say to continue. So let's continue the claims.

I'm VT. That's why near EoD2 I said it would be better to exile me than to end up with another no exile day... there were enough opinions about me that hopefully it would have helped solve some things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 03:26:18 pm
Where are we at? Is this right?

Joth- VT
Iguana- VT
E!- 1-shot cop (N2 Result: Iguana is an imposter)
Math- VT
MiX- Mason
WCD- Mason
Faust
Jim
Swowl

Also:
LL- VT
EFHW- 1 shot doc
gkrieg- VT
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on October 01, 2021, 03:28:54 pm
Joth is being really self righteous : ( Also scum often claims town after an exile because it can throw off exactly these kinds of twilight discussions. So there is absolutely still a chance that gkrieg is scum.

Oh yeah, you would never set up another mis-exile....

Joth was making me feel like shit! I HATE misexiling and I do it ALL THE TIME. This is literally why I quit playing!! Because I am bad at finding scum! And joth was sitting there rubbing it in my face in the thread! Setting up his misexile? That is total BS

Sorry dude. I was just as wrong about Didds.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 01, 2021, 03:32:32 pm
Okay, I talk about/to faust in #198, #201, #229, #232, #314, #315, #316, #540, & #776 all before #811 where I voted faust and 2.7 jumped on me for it.

Cool.  I am lazy so I will just use these and see what I missed.

#198 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876729#msg876729) - I think I missed this one.
#201 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876732#msg876732) - Pretty sure this was my #1 in the count
#229 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876783#msg876783) - #2
#232 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876787#msg876787),  #314 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876877#msg876877), #315 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876879#msg876879), and #316 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876880#msg876880)  - I think lumped these together, probably because I was just ctrl+F looking at your posts. So pretty sure this was my "#3" and yeah, there is more interaction than I gave you credit for. They are all linked to one post, so maybe I did see them and I just lumped it as "one interaction with faust"
#540 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877178#msg877178) - fairly certain I did not include this one. It was a post about LaLight, Swowl, Jimmmmm, and myself. Mentions faust in talking about LaLight and Jimmmm, don't think I really counted it as the post is focused on not-faust.
#776 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877518#msg877518) - I did count this one, my #4
#811 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877567#msg877567) - the vote, my count was exclusive, didn't include the vote

So, yeah.  There is more interaction than I gave you credit for. But I wouldn't say it was such a huge exaggeration. I do typically over-exaggerate my cases as well, but sure.  Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 01, 2021, 05:15:22 pm
OK caught up.

Unvote For a moment. I need look back over something.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 01, 2021, 06:28:21 pm
I should claim I guess.

I am a... Mason! dun dun dun.

Not really, I'm just a VT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 01, 2021, 06:32:14 pm
I should claim I guess.

I am a... Mason! dun dun dun.

Not really, I'm just a VT.

I was too close to keeping that claim as a possibility. As in, triple masons. I found it funny to think about at least.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 06:37:58 pm
Jimmmmm has been super quiet today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 07:43:32 pm
Jimmmmm has been super quiet today.

It's true. I was keeping up super well but got a bit fatigued of it and had a few other things on my mind IRL. Also, Today feels more like a "Try to solve the game" Day rather than a "Respond to things as they come up" Day, and I've procrastinated the trying to solve the game a little.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 07:50:57 pm
Well, it’s your turn to claim and we’d love it if you’d solve the game, too
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 07:53:14 pm
I'm a VT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 08:55:56 pm
Looking at the start of Day 3, it seems at the very least e's claim was premeditated.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 09:02:48 pm
Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 09:07:09 pm
Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??

I haven't read that part yet haha. Sounds kinda sketchy though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 09:21:13 pm
Do you buy that he saw the result and got excited??

I haven't read that part yet haha. Sounds kinda sketchy though.

It would be totally on brand for me! This is why I’m checking…
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 09:24:38 pm
Sorry on brand with what?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 01, 2021, 09:45:53 pm
Sorry on brand with what?

To get all excited when I have a result and whiff the claim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 10:42:20 pm

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 01, 2021, 11:00:00 pm

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.

I had similar feelings about that and I think a few other of iguana's posts.

Regarding the item raised here first by Jimmmmm... iguana knowing his meta. Unfortunately, being aware of it, and then posting such, makes meta discussion (such as lurking when scum) less relevant. Once you say you're aware of it, you can more actively try to navigate it to your advantage.

And then yes, being so certain of why scum picked to frame him sounds sketchy, and very elaborate. Although, I guess it's not that different than my assumption earlier that I would have suspected e, if a real cop, would have targeted me or someone else controversial, rather than iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 01, 2021, 11:04:01 pm
Regarding the item raised here first by Jimmmmm... iguana knowing his meta. Unfortunately, being aware of it, and then posting such, makes meta discussion (such as lurking when scum) less relevant. Once you say you're aware of it, you can more actively try to navigate it to your advantage.

This is true generally, but I think the argument of "I always try to be active as scum but never manage it" holds a bit more water than other self-meta arguments.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 02, 2021, 03:29:38 am
Just need Swowl's claim now, I believe.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 02, 2021, 06:36:28 am
Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.

This feels like a strawman.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 02, 2021, 06:51:47 am
So 2.7's EoD2 play is actually very scummy.

This may be minor, but the word "actually" jumped out at me here. If iguana's Town, then he knows e is scum, so wouldn't be surprised to find scumminess. "Actually" sounds like he was pleasantly surprised to find scumminess, which is more in line with scum iguana and Town e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 02, 2021, 07:07:06 am
Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkreig13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

The more I look back the more I think math is in fact scum.

One reason why math didn't get exiled D1, I colored the wagon just for fun, even if you flip red/green with iguana and me that wagon on math looks pretty towny and then has that single bus.

The problem with this is that mathdude's on me, so the joth wagon also has at most one scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 02, 2021, 07:30:22 am
e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 02, 2021, 08:56:08 am
e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

 I did not think much overnight about what I would do whatever the result. I had a short period of time between getting the result and the thread opening, and in that period is where I developed all my wonderful ideas. Immediately calling iguana scum was meant as a soft claim of sorts. The overconfidence was meant to spur reactions, then I would follow with my claim. Originally, the whole full cop/1-shot cop was meant to draw the NK N3 then end up not actually being as important since I was 1-shot. I decided that lying wasn't a good idea, so I would just claim "cop with a N2 result" and see who would press me for additional results, imagining that they might be scum. In my mind, I wasn't lying, I was withholding information. Which, yeah, not telling the full truth is a lie, especially because my intention was for people to imagine me as a full cop. I did want to claim before any sort of mass claim, the idea being that scum doesn't need any additional info, and town can use their PRs as they see fit, and I trust town to do what is right. At least what they think is right.

I put iguana down as an initial target at the start of the night with the thought to go back and rethink if I should target someone else. I didn't do that and just stayed on iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 02, 2021, 01:51:21 pm
So 2.7's EoD2 play is actually very scummy.

This may be minor, but the word "actually" jumped out at me here. If iguana's Town, then he knows e is scum, so wouldn't be surprised to find scumminess. "Actually" sounds like he was pleasantly surprised to find scumminess, which is more in line with scum iguana and Town e.

I think I used actually there because I had been townreading 2.7 all the way to pretty much the start of D3. So when I first read EoD2 it did not strike me that 2.7 was scum at that time. But then when I read back over his play knowing that he is scum, it struck me that he was being very scummy EoD2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 02, 2021, 01:56:27 pm
Why on earth do you lie as town in a semi open setup where your claim has bearing on how likely everyone else's claims are and vice versa? Lying about being cop as town has the potential to create, EG, a counterclaim from the actual cop in a CCC situation or just produce so many letters that it's a 1% chance to occur situation. So at best you are making people believe your lie but then they exile another town PR by mistake.

But if you are scum, that's a good outcome to get that counterclaim, so faking full cop is a fine play.

This is not a setup where town lies about their role because they're all related.

This feels like a strawman.

I think that's fair actually. When 2.7 first claimed on me, I had a very deer in the headlights reaction of knowing he was scum but having no idea why he was scum or why he chose me or why he did any of these decisions. So it took me quite a while to piece it together and figure out what his and his team's likely motivations were. At first when I was reading his claim, it seemed like he was just straight lying in his claim and this was a borderline scumslip, but actually I don't think that's what we're looking at. 

What it seems more likely to be now is that 2.7 did a thought experiment of, if I were a 1-shot cop with a scum result on Iguana, how would I do it. And he thought, maybe I would pretend to be a full cop to get reactions, maybe I would string it out, etc.

All the same, the way that his claim played out in a wishy washy way and not a straightforward way to me is still an indication that this is a fantasy claim, and that 2.7 was considering multiple ways of doing it before he settled on one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 02, 2021, 02:08:52 pm

Overall this is a good post, and if true the "I always lurk as scum" argument could be compelling. I did get a couple of scum pings from it though.

"2.7 tricked me D2 into still thinking he was town by backing off his Math scumread shortly after I announced that I also had backed off it."
Something about "2.7 tricked me" seems unnecessarily accusatory.

"I'm guessing that scum must have looked through my ISO last night and guessed from my active play that I was VT and decided that would make me a good person to try to incriminate."
Something about this seems ingenuine. It also seems like something of a contradiction to suggest that scum were able to figure out that he was a VT, but also didn't know his meta.

What 2.7 did when he changed his read on Mathdude had the effect of tricking me into thinking he was towny. I will give you that I can't really discern whether that was something 2.7 did on purpose or whether it just had that effect and 2.7 had something else in mind by changing his read there (probably the latter).

The second part I think was very much the deer in the headlights effect. I've entertained a lot of ideas since 2.7 claimed on me for why they picked me. Ultimately, what actually makes sense to me is that they felt they could win more easily by using a fake result to incriminate someone that a lot of the town thought was towny, and therefore be up against people that a lot of the town think of as scummy during the LyLo that will result if you exile me. I think the fact that 2.7 admits that he tends to overestimate himself makes a lot of sense too for why he would pick this fight and expect to win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 02, 2021, 05:13:00 pm
Swowl! Where you at?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2021, 06:06:13 pm
Sorry weird weekend.
Home in an hour.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 02, 2021, 06:07:14 pm
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

Daily reminder that Swowl needs to claim and this day has a deadline.

Oh, look at who I was about to prod.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2021, 07:14:51 pm
Sorry, there was a lot in a short window I had to deal with. Completely missed you have been waiting on me.

I am VT.

Sorry for not correcting faust earlier, but I figured if we ended up not claiming all the way I would draw a kill, so I leaned into it a bit.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 02, 2021, 07:22:25 pm
Alright, Swowl. Thoughts on e and iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2021, 08:23:47 pm
Alright, Swowl. Thoughts on e and iguana?

I’m thinking. Still inclined to say iguana.

Trying to find a way in which E! as skum would fake this result, and I’m not coming up with anything
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 02, 2021, 08:59:12 pm
I've been very LA from this past Thursday up through this coming Monday morning and I'm limited to mobile. If there have actually been enough votes to need an official count, lmk, but otherwise feel free to throw an unofficial count up if someone wants one. Thanks, and sorry for any inconvenience!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2021, 11:06:10 pm
E! I apologize cuz I am sure you have answered this, but what was the reasoning on checking II with your one shot?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2021, 11:45:02 pm
I mean IFFFF E! is lying, then it ends up 2v3 two days from now in a best case scenario for skum.
Today exile II
Tonight Skum kills mason 1
Tomorrow Exile E!
That night skum kills mason 2.
That leaves [Swowl, Faust, Joth, Math, Jimmm] with 2 skum in it.
We then have to exile. And we have to be right. Then skum shoots, assuming we are still playing, and it is 1v2. final day.

OTOH if it went the other way and we were to exile E! (in this case they flipping skum) that would mean there are 3 ICs in the game (masonsX2 + E!). We exile E!, thats 8. skum would kill one of them, then we would have 2v5. Lets just say town exile that day becaues that is what they would plan for, now we are at 2v4. Then they kill another IC at night. We wake up in two days from now 2v3.
Say we find skum that day, cool cool cool. Still 2v1.

All of it ends up at the same place. Why does skum E! doe this here?

Vote: Iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 12:01:03 am
E! I apologize cuz I am sure you have answered this, but what was the reasoning on checking II with your one shot?

Bottom line is that I thought they were scummy, but also that others were scummy based on interactions with iguana.

You look at when I voted WCD. It was due to EFHW interactions, but my next post mentions she is scummy for how she interacted with iguana (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878004#msg878004), who I still viewed as potential scum

Then I had linked iguana and faust together as 1 scum 1 town (starting at both scum, moving to 1 and 1 which is where I was at overnight, then back to 2 scum now).

So I viewed iguana as an info flip with investigating.

And finally there was a bit of godfather avoidance going on. The last thing I wanted was a false negative, but with the game situation I knew I couldn't hold off on investigating any longer than I did. For whatever reason I felt iguana would not be the godfather. Glad I was right.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 02:31:58 am
Still think e's scum, faust?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 03, 2021, 02:56:00 am
Still think e's scum, faust?
I am VLA and have to read.

I want Swowl to explain what was going on with his EFHW read on D2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 03, 2021, 03:05:40 am
I'm going back and forth on this a bit. iguana has been mostly Towny and his more emotional posts have been fairly convincing, but he has given scum pings from time to time. e I haven't found as Towny, but his claim seems Towny enough, and I'm not seeing the need for scum e to draw this much attention  to himself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 07:44:40 am
Maybe faust and iguana are partners?

That’s the scenario where planting the idea of scum investigating scum really pays off for him, because he’s introduced real doubt about which one of them to exile and created a situation where even if we exile iguana and he’s scum, e! isn’t an IC. That’s a pretty great beat case scenario for scum with a caught partner, especially when you know there are two other ICs already that it’s too late to do anything about.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 07:45:11 am
Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 11:05:38 am
Good morning friends!

So, we’ve heard from everyone now. There isn’t any tension with e’s claim that I see. I’m going to wait to vote until faust and whomever else have had time to reread, but I don’t have any reason to disbelieve e so I plan to vote for iguana.

Iguana, I wanted to say this now, if you’re scum, you have played really well in my opinion. Your posts defending yourself are well articulated and the frustration seems authentic. The fact that there is this much doubt speaks to how well you’ve played.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 12:19:39 pm
It seems that the tides are turning against me. I will try to respond to everyone individually later today but for now maybe consider this?

Is it possible you are all underestimating the bravado of the guy who says he underestimates the danger he's in? And just how good of a position scum is in after they misexile me?

Given that all my allies seem to be abandoning me, doesn't it seem likely that the one without allies is also the one without partners?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 12:25:22 pm
It seems that the tides are turning against me. I will try to respond to everyone individually later today but for now maybe consider this?

Is it possible you are all underestimating the bravado of the guy who says he underestimates the danger he's in? And just how good of a position scum is in after they misexile me?

Given that all my allies seem to be abandoning me, doesn't it seem likely that the one without allies is also the one without partners?

If your partners are good it doesn’t really behoove them to defend you here. I would not expect cop-caught scum to have partners defending. And if they did, they’d be doing it the way faust is, by throwing suspicion on the cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 12:28:48 pm
If Faust is 2.7's partner, he's chosen the quite genius strategy of defending me in a way that convinced everyone else that I'm Faust's partner and therefore scum :/
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 12:29:21 pm
This game is not going to end up helping with the faust complex....
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 12:54:01 pm
e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

 I did not think much overnight about what I would do whatever the result. I had a short period of time between getting the result and the thread opening, and in that period is where I developed all my wonderful ideas. Immediately calling iguana scum was meant as a soft claim of sorts. The overconfidence was meant to spur reactions, then I would follow with my claim. Originally, the whole full cop/1-shot cop was meant to draw the NK N3 then end up not actually being as important since I was 1-shot. I decided that lying wasn't a good idea, so I would just claim "cop with a N2 result" and see who would press me for additional results, imagining that they might be scum. In my mind, I wasn't lying, I was withholding information. Which, yeah, not telling the full truth is a lie, especially because my intention was for people to imagine me as a full cop. I did want to claim before any sort of mass claim, the idea being that scum doesn't need any additional info, and town can use their PRs as they see fit, and I trust town to do what is right. At least what they think is right.

I put iguana down as an initial target at the start of the night with the thought to go back and rethink if I should target someone else. I didn't do that and just stayed on iguana.

Bold added above for emphasis...

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?

So e, what are your thoughts of faust, in light of this? I know many have been back and forth on him, based on his strong reactions here D3.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 03, 2021, 12:58:18 pm
Okay caught up. Before I say anything else, and before we exile anyone, I want to hear Swowl's reply.

unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 01:09:21 pm
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?

Unfortunately, both of these are fairly likely.

If town, it makes sense to jump the order to avoid all the claims today (give scum less to work with tonight). But if this was the case, why didn't e more vocally stop the claims? If he's town, wouldn't he strongly force the 1 vs 1 and recommend the claims happen D4? Even if he ends up getting exiled first, at least his role was still useful without giving scum extra info until 1 or 2 days later.

If scum, jumping the order could give his claim of cop more believability over a later claim. A later claim can look like scum reacting to what's out there. They sort of know the amount of power out there, based on their roles, and were probably trying to figure out exactly which ones. The cop claim has the advantage of possibly getting counter-claimed... 2 full cops are quite unlikely, so pretending to be full cop without saying it can reveal one of their biggest threats, which would still have allowed e to back off and clarify that he's just 1-shot like he did.

I think I'm more likely to vote e at this point. The way he came out today, it sounds fake to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 01:30:53 pm
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?

But if there are town who make his role unlikely/impossible, they’d say something, right?

I believe we can look at this in a little more detail now that claims are through.

EFHW was 1-shot doctor, which has to be "E".
Assuming e! is telling the truth and is 1-shot cop, this can be either a second "E" or "C" (doesn't really matter which... I'll just say "C").
Masons likely means "M".

So as long as claims are all true town, and that scum all claimed VT, this should mean we're at ECMTTT, which gives a 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker.

If e is lying scum, then that's only EMTTTT, which is still 1-shot strongman and a roleblocker.  But with those roles, e wouldn't know if there were 2 town roles (as per current claim/assumption in this case) or 3 town roles (which give the same scum roles).  By him claiming cop, he either pushes town up to a claimed 3 roles (no change to assumed scum powers), or up to a claimed 4 roles... which would push his theoretical scum team up to a full strongman instead of 1-shot.

Would scum (team, or e alone if he's acting independent of team plans) risk us believing they have a full strongman, over a 1-shot?  Does it make much difference in how we react to them?  I think the only difference would be the one comment after LL died N1:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

We now know Swowl isn't E/C... he's VT.  I think this was another exercise in futility.  But I've typed it out, so I'm posting it.  Maybe someone else will see some of this differently.  But I don't think it gives us any more info.  I think in any of these cases, e could still pull this move as scum.  I don't think it puts him in any more danger of getting caught.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 01:33:41 pm
Thanks for posting that math, I was under the impression e's claim changed the scumteam's powers.

I guess I'll say that makes me trust him more.

I'll have to actually reread him and iguana, and look at the D1 VCA. I don't really feel like doing that though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 01:41:44 pm
I am inclined to believe e.

I’m not quite sure why others don’t. I need to reread to suss that out but I have to work and stuff first.

It’s the timing.

Which is more likely— town jumped the claim order because they didn’t want any more claims to happen than necessary or scum jumped the claim order to avoid being backed into a corner and to give their cop claim more cred?

But if there are town who make his role unlikely/impossible, they’d say something, right?

I guess I didn't really respond to the actual thing I quoted.  Unless there were already 2 other 1-shot cops (EFHW as 1-shot doctor could either be "DD" with another full doctor, or "E", or part of "EE", or potentially part of "EEE"), 2.71 claiming 1-shot cop doesn't ring any bells.  With scum knowing there were 2 or 3 power roles, EEE seems quite unlikely.  "EEC" would probably be their only concern, if it comes up doctor (EFHW), 1-shot cop, 1-shot cop... plus 2.71's fake claim 1-shot cop.  But if that unlikely situation comes up, then it's just 1 of the 3 1-shot cops that's lying, and that's not great odds for us.  Seems a very safe claim.

Even if full cop came up in claims (likely "CC"), combined with EFHW's likely "E", that's the end of the power roles... 2.71's 1-shot cop just looks like either EEEC or ECCC.  So him claiming ahead of anyone else with a 1-shot cop seemed likely it was nearly foolproof.

This still doesn't prove he's lying.  He could still be telling the truth.  But it does show that if he is lying, there was almost no risk in doing it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 01:43:05 pm
Thanks for posting that math, I was under the impression e's claim changed the scumteam's powers.

I guess I'll say that makes me trust him more.

I'll have to actually reread him and iguana, and look at the D1 VCA. I don't really feel like doing that though.

You can look back through my posts to find info-dumps of vote counts (including many that hadn't been seen in official or even unofficial vote counts, up to that point).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 02:00:03 pm
I mean you hadn't even decided what to claim at the moment you were typing it out. Did you just realize 1 shot was way more likely with EFHW's flip after the fact?

I see you did some setup analysis in the scum QT N0. Not surprising.

Yeah except this isnt exactly the first time I've played Asher++ and I read the gkrieg/Ash masons one where it all came down to bad analysis of how likely roles are to appear, so I just know this stuff a priori.

This is another reason we need to mass claim. To see how likely his role is to even exist in the first place. (Probably not, because he made it up)

I believe this is the 2nd time iguana has said to continue the massclaim, since he was called out by e.

I said in a recent post what I believe scum!e's and town!e's opinion would be to continuing the massclaim, after he claimed his result on iguana.  I figured he would want it not to continue if town, to protect the rest of town roles.  But he didn't stop us from claiming.  That points me toward thinking he's scum.

Now, what would iguana believe about the massclaim?

If iguana is town, would he have any idea whether massclaim is a good idea or not?  He may feel that it will help reveal an inconsistency in e's claim, but as I showed in my recent post, 1-shot cop is about as safe of a claim as scum can make (as with claiming VT).  But if he hadn't thought through all that, I wouldn't blame him, immediately going on the defensive.

But if iguana is scum, he knows e is telling the truth.  He knows at this point that EFHW gives a (likely) "E" result, and e gives either a second E (i.e. "EE") or a C (i.e. "EC").  And based on what we now know about scum roles, there are either 2 or 3 total town powers (for TTT or TTTT). So he knows that at most, only 1 more power will be revealed in the claims, and it basically can't reveal e as a liar.

Based on this, I don't think scum!iguana advocates for continuing massclaim.  I think he just tries to play it out, and hope e gets exiled first.  And he does advocate for continuing the claims more than once.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 02:26:24 pm
Voting from D3 so far... assuming I haven't missed anything.

Iguana (2): 2.71, Swowl
2.71 (1): faust
WCD (1): joth

Iguana (2): 2.71, Swowl
2.71 (3): faust, joth, iguana

Iguana (1): 2.71
2.71 (3): faust, joth, iguana

Iguana (2): 2.71, Swowl
2.71 (1): iguana

(Final set is current count).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 03, 2021, 02:36:29 pm
Okay caught up. Before I say anything else, and before we exile anyone, I want to hear Swowl's reply.

unvote

All I did was re read at night and decide I was wrong on my day 1 read.
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 02:58:10 pm
I said in a recent post what I believe scum!e's and town!e's opinion would be to continuing the massclaim, after he claimed his result on iguana.  I figured he would want it not to continue if town, to protect the rest of town roles.  But he didn't stop us from claiming.  That points me toward thinking he's scum.

I felt like I was pretty clear anti-mass claim. That was the whole reason I jumped in line, to prevent any other claims (except obviously iguana would claim something)

By the time the mass claim continued I had lost my ability to influence it one way or the other. But that was a significant period of time between my claim and it continuing along, I think I did post something about being fine with it continuing, but again, that was after a significant time attempting to stop the mass claim and really just resigning myself to it
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 03:08:58 pm
e, what were you trying to achieve by "stringing it along", but also immediately calling iguana scum and voting for him without providing much of a reason?

Also, when did you decide that iguana would be your target? Did you think much during the Night about what you might do with whatever result you got?

 I did not think much overnight about what I would do whatever the result. I had a short period of time between getting the result and the thread opening, and in that period is where I developed all my wonderful ideas. Immediately calling iguana scum was meant as a soft claim of sorts. The overconfidence was meant to spur reactions, then I would follow with my claim. Originally, the whole full cop/1-shot cop was meant to draw the NK N3 then end up not actually being as important since I was 1-shot. I decided that lying wasn't a good idea, so I would just claim "cop with a N2 result" and see who would press me for additional results, imagining that they might be scum. In my mind, I wasn't lying, I was withholding information. Which, yeah, not telling the full truth is a lie, especially because my intention was for people to imagine me as a full cop. I did want to claim before any sort of mass claim, the idea being that scum doesn't need any additional info, and town can use their PRs as they see fit, and I trust town to do what is right. At least what they think is right.

I put iguana down as an initial target at the start of the night with the thought to go back and rethink if I should target someone else. I didn't do that and just stayed on iguana.

Bold added above for emphasis...

On a different note, I don't think we need anyone to claim because we have caught scum for today

I am a cop
I investigated Iguana last night
iguana is an imposter.
So who did you investigate N1?

So e, what are your thoughts of faust, in light of this? I know many have been back and forth on him, based on his strong reactions here D3.

As soon as I got my result, I was convinced faust was town. When he was the one to ask about N1 results I was disappointed: I wanted that to come from someone, I don't know, like you.

As the day progressed, that read slowly changed, as you can see here:

I have no clue how to respond to faust at this point. He is so lost in his own little world

I mean, he is doing great eroding my read that since iguana is scum, faust must be town.

The read changed finally when faust claimed for MiX and Didds:
Also, even more suspicious of faust.

Claiming masons for MiX/Didds is MVP play right there... If scum win (and faust is scum)

Again, I have distracted from this but want to bring it up again. Why does town!faust claim for the masons? Simple answer, he doesn't. A good bit of discussion has gone into the timing of my claim and if I had the nefarious purpose of getting extra town cred from scum!e (not the case).

Zero discussion on faust claiming for other people. I think that above anything else is reason for faust to be on top of the list for possible D4 exiles
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 03:10:25 pm
"zero" discussion is an exaggeration. MiX acknowledged and dismissed it as excited town. I don't buy that though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 03:39:31 pm
What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 03:53:11 pm
What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 04:02:47 pm
What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.

Does he need the towncred? He knows I'm uncondionally townreading him from EoD1. There's no reason to buddy us.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 03, 2021, 04:14:14 pm
What’s the logic for scum!faust outing us? Especially with so much heat on me EOD D2? He created two ICs and made the POE much stronger against everyone else.

He didn't create two ICs. Your role as mason did that.

He identified you correctly for town cred. Despite my objections, a mass claim was going to happen. As scum, whether it comes out early or late didn't matter. It comes out and you have to deal with it. faust found a way he thought could get him some town credit. Make lemonade out of lemons if you will.

Does he need the towncred? He knows I'm uncondionally townreading him from EoD1. There's no reason to buddy us.

No, that's a fair point. It is also PoE confirmation bias playing in, knowing everyone can't be town.

as I talked about here earlier (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878473#msg878473), this is what I am looking at:

Conf!town
MiX/Didds- mason
e - 1 shot cop

Conf!scum
iguanaiguana

All Else- 2 scum in 5
Swowl
faust
mathdude
Jimmmmm
jotheonah

Someone has to be scum. You may not have to deal with it at all, but it will come up (D5 of you exile me today, D4 if we exile iguana).

Which two of swowl, faust, math, jimmmm, and joth are scum? My reads point me to faust + ???? (Lean math right now, but want to let that sit for a while)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 03, 2021, 04:22:59 pm
So, here's the thing with Swowl.

D1, he reads EFHW as scum. Then on day 2, he comes out saying this:

Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.
I had already put this down as a potential crumb at the time, and you'll see I haven't pressed for either Swowl or EFHW after that. This was reinforced later in the Day when he was explicitly asked about it by gkrieg:

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

1. Because I was being stupid.
At the time, this reinforced my scumread on gkrieg because he seemed to be rolefishing. Swowl doubles down on not explaining his change of mind here.

One might argue that Swowl wasn't aware that his behaviour might be read as a crumb, and in his answer today he tries to play this off as a simple reads change. However, then there is this post, which shows he is very aware of things being potentially read as crumbs:
1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.
The EFHW read very explicitly did not have that same disclaimer.

So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

So ultimately I am convinced to

Vote: iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 04:29:08 pm
So, here's the thing with Swowl.

This implies Swowl planned on killing EFHW from SoD2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 03, 2021, 04:30:50 pm
I mean, he doesn't need to kill EFHW. It helps his claim but it's not integral.

I am more convinced now that Swowl is scum than that iguana is, but it wouldn't be sensible to exile outside of e/iguana today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 03, 2021, 04:31:54 pm
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 04:32:07 pm
Didds count 3.1

Iguana (3): 2.71, Swowl, faust
2.71 (1): iguana

Not Voting (5): MiX, mathdude, Jimmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 04:33:39 pm
Cmon scum quickhammer please. I wanna win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 04:45:59 pm
Just glossed over my D1 VCA. Why didn't we flip math or joth yesterday...sigh...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 05:23:01 pm
Intent to vote iguana whenever everybody’s cool with it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 05:52:41 pm
So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 03, 2021, 05:55:18 pm

I think I understand the reasoning for your Swowl Cop read, and would put it down to his being fixated on joth/math for whatever reason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 06:01:14 pm
So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 03, 2021, 06:01:55 pm
Intent to vote iguana whenever everybody’s cool with it.

Why would you vote now? It's so early.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 03, 2021, 07:43:27 pm
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 03, 2021, 08:00:15 pm
Tasks were taking a while to finish, since a couple tasks needed every Crewmate to do their part before it would be done. While they waited, Cyan looked at their screen to see what all they had left to do, when suddenly a wave of static washed over the screen hiding the information. Someone had sabotaged the ship's communications!

Vote Count 3.1

iguanaiguana (3): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust
2.71828..... (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): MiX, mathdude, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 3 will end Wednesday, October 6, 2021, at 3:00 pm forum time.

*Fixed to account for joth's unvote.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 08:04:24 pm
Zero discussion on faust claiming for other people. I think that above anything else is reason for faust to be on top of the list for possible D4 exiles

Today is obviously e vs iguana.

So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.

Exactly. Tonight's result will influence tomorrow's discussions, obviously. If we get tonight wrong, we exile the other (e or iguana) tomorrow, but not before good discussions about partners... which would obviously still happen if we get tonight right.

Faust, joth, me, Swowl and Jimmmmm are all on tomorrow's discussions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 08:07:21 pm
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:11:41 pm
So Swowl is acting exactly like 2.7's partner, and Faust goes to hell and back to justify that Swowl is acting like my partner based on misreading a breadcrumb based only on saying he was stupid, and now he's off voting scum and onto town and everyone is just fine with it?

We’re not fine with it but we know that today’s exile has to be you or e. Faust scrutiny will come tomorrow.

There's a problem with that. You are saying you intend on misexiling a town today because of your Faust scrutiny. Would you please maybe scrutinize a little more?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 03, 2021, 08:27:45 pm
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e

Wait, it's too convenient that e is lying scum, therefore he's lying scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:27:45 pm
Good morning friends!

So, we’ve heard from everyone now. There isn’t any tension with e’s claim that I see. I’m going to wait to vote until faust and whomever else have had time to reread, but I don’t have any reason to disbelieve e so I plan to vote for iguana.

Iguana, I wanted to say this now, if you’re scum, you have played really well in my opinion. Your posts defending yourself are well articulated and the frustration seems authentic. The fact that there is this much doubt speaks to how well you’ve played.

Can you at least interact with what I've been saying instead of just basically ignoring it while saying that you're mind hasn't changed?

No tension with e's claim? What about the fact that putting out a fake guilty gives 1 scum total clearance to vote a town, and allows the other two scum to hedge and act like they are evaluating a 50/50 and decide which side to vote based on how many or how few townies are supporting the exile? With full scum support for exiling me, they only needed to convince 2 townies to get an exile through and bring us to LyLo.

No tension? What about the fact that if they get my misexile through, scum is in an automatically great spot where they only need one more misexile to win the game? Sure, they lose 2.7, but what they gain is double LyLo, which is a great spot for scum to be in and only requires them to misexile a single townie.

What about everything I argued about how 2.7 has been playing scummy this game that you ignored and have not engaged with? What about the fact that he pushed you and MiX right up to the moment that he found out you were masons? What about your prior town read on me? Does that mean nothing to you? Are you willing to abandon all your prior reads now because you think that 2.7 claimed in a townie way?

Can you at least answer some of this? Because if you don't, when this is over and we're both in the speccy watching a likely scum bloodbath I am not really going to want to talk to you because you just exiled me on a single data point and didn't even engage with me about it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 03, 2021, 08:28:00 pm
Whoa simultaneous posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:31:37 pm
I mean IFFFF E! is lying, then it ends up 2v3 two days from now in a best case scenario for skum.
Today exile II
Tonight Skum kills mason 1
Tomorrow Exile E!
That night skum kills mason 2.
That leaves [Swowl, Faust, Joth, Math, Jimmm] with 2 skum in it.
We then have to exile. And we have to be right. Then skum shoots, assuming we are still playing, and it is 1v2. final day.

OTOH if it went the other way and we were to exile E! (in this case they flipping skum) that would mean there are 3 ICs in the game (masonsX2 + E!). We exile E!, thats 8. skum would kill one of them, then we would have 2v5. Lets just say town exile that day becaues that is what they would plan for, now we are at 2v4. Then they kill another IC at night. We wake up in two days from now 2v3.
Say we find skum that day, cool cool cool. Still 2v1.

All of it ends up at the same place. Why does skum E! doe this here?

Vote: Iguana

Are you EFFING kidding?

You lay out two scenarios here and you call them equal, except they are TOTALLY NOT EQUAL!

In scenario one, we misexile iguana ---> one town exile, and now we are at LyLo suddenly.

In scenario two, you add SOME RANDOM MISEXILE into the equation such that the result is we end up in the same place!

That is not a fair assessment at all! In scenario 1, I'm the misexile. In scenario 2, even though town chose right and exiled 2.7, we end up in the same place because we effed up about some other effing thing later on! So in other words, exile correctly today and we still get another chance to eff things up later!

And I'm getting exiled because of analysis like this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:35:44 pm
It seems that the tides are turning against me. I will try to respond to everyone individually later today but for now maybe consider this?

Is it possible you are all underestimating the bravado of the guy who says he underestimates the danger he's in? And just how good of a position scum is in after they misexile me?

Given that all my allies seem to be abandoning me, doesn't it seem likely that the one without allies is also the one without partners?

If your partners are good it doesn’t really behoove them to defend you here. I would not expect cop-caught scum to have partners defending. And if they did, they’d be doing it the way faust is, by throwing suspicion on the cop.

I just don't think this is true. There are enough people having a hard time with this decision that we can now say some townies are having a hard time with this decision. So e's partners just need to pretend like they are figuring it out and they can vote however they like. Hence, early on people voted 2.7, and now lo and behold people have changed their minds and it's actually Iguana they think is scum.

I would be looking for scum in the one guy who has been voting me this whole time and one other person who is trying to make a big show about changing their mind.

Good luck getting it right without me, I guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:38:34 pm
Maybe faust and iguana are partners?

That’s the scenario where planting the idea of scum investigating scum really pays off for him, because he’s introduced real doubt about which one of them to exile and created a situation where even if we exile iguana and he’s scum, e! isn’t an IC. That’s a pretty great beat case scenario for scum with a caught partner, especially when you know there are two other ICs already that it’s too late to do anything about.

-.-

faust is not my partner. I don't have partners. You townread me, until it mattered it seems.

For the record, your idea is dumb. This is not how faust and I play together as scum at all. I literally linked to a game like that and we are always at each other's throats the whole game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:41:51 pm
Or at least I'm at his throat and he is acting like he's got the worst scum partner in the world.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:50:15 pm
I know I sound aggravated, but from the position I'm in, things just look silly and absurd.

Faust is voting me because he think I have to be scum with Swowl and he's dead confident that Swowl had intended to make a breadcrumb.

Joth is voting me because he thinks that faust is scum, and therefore faust has to be my partner.

^----- both of these guys seem to be more confident in their scum reads on the other person, but nevertheless their mutually exclusive ideas have led them on to me.

Swowl is voting me because of a logical analysis with a giant logical fallacy in it.

and WCD is planning to vote me because 2.7 seems towny, even though she didn't think that before the claim, and doesn't seem to want to engage with me about why it's a scum claim from a scum player.

So that puts me on the cusp of exile, and unless there's 2 scum in Swowl, Joth, Faust, the people who get to decide likely have a scum among them.

We're screwed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 08:51:22 pm
Oh, I forgot about e. e gets a vote.

That means I'm a dead man walking.

Whatever, I'm done then. GG scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 08:59:44 pm
Good morning friends!

So, we’ve heard from everyone now. There isn’t any tension with e’s claim that I see. I’m going to wait to vote until faust and whomever else have had time to reread, but I don’t have any reason to disbelieve e so I plan to vote for iguana.

Iguana, I wanted to say this now, if you’re scum, you have played really well in my opinion. Your posts defending yourself are well articulated and the frustration seems authentic. The fact that there is this much doubt speaks to how well you’ve played.

Can you at least interact with what I've been saying instead of just basically ignoring it while saying that you're mind hasn't changed?

No tension with e's claim? What about the fact that putting out a fake guilty gives 1 scum total clearance to vote a town, and allows the other two scum to hedge and act like they are evaluating a 50/50 and decide which side to vote based on how many or how few townies are supporting the exile? With full scum support for exiling me, they only needed to convince 2 townies to get an exile through and bring us to LyLo.

No tension? What about the fact that if they get my misexile through, scum is in an automatically great spot where they only need one more misexile to win the game? Sure, they lose 2.7, but what they gain is double LyLo, which is a great spot for scum to be in and only requires them to misexile a single townie.

What about everything I argued about how 2.7 has been playing scummy this game that you ignored and have not engaged with? What about the fact that he pushed you and MiX right up to the moment that he found out you were masons? What about your prior town read on me? Does that mean nothing to you? Are you willing to abandon all your prior reads now because you think that 2.7 claimed in a townie way?

Can you at least answer some of this? Because if you don't, when this is over and we're both in the speccy watching a likely scum bloodbath I am not really going to want to talk to you because you just exiled me on a single data point and didn't even engage with me about it.

By no tension I meant no sort of counter claim.

My reads are terrible, so I try not to trust those. I see you standing close to me at se real points in the game, which is a way of making me feel warm toward you, which has worked but is also a known problem for me.

So, I’m not evaluating you as much as I’m evaluating e which is why you think I’m not interacting with you. I mean, I guess it is in fact a lack of interaction, but it’s not an active ignoring or an attempt to dismiss you.

If I think e is a cop and the result on you is imposter, then it doesn’t matter what I think of you or the arguments you’ve made. Saying that e has acted scummy is asking me to read him, which goes back to my reads are terrible. That he was scum reading MiX and I was a position shared by a lot of folks including gkrieg and EFHW.

Right now I am much more interested in what everyone other than you and e are saying. I expect that scum will line up in one way or another.

But it’s the weekend and I’ve been family centered (our kid turned 13 yesterday! WTF?!!) so I haven’t read closely, but also I’m also not voting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 09:02:57 pm
Oh, I forgot about e. e gets a vote.

That means I'm a dead man walking.

Whatever, I'm done then. GG scum.

He’s already voting for you.

iguanaiguana (3): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust
2.71828..... (3): jotheonah, iguanaiguana, math
Not Voting (3): MiX, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

Hmmmm…. That’s based on Dylan’s latest VC. Joth is that right? I thought you were y currently voting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 03, 2021, 09:42:10 pm
The vote count is wrong
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 09:51:20 pm
I expressed an intent to vote. I haven't done so yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 03, 2021, 09:51:59 pm
I had voted for e but I unvoted.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2021, 09:53:24 pm
If Joth isn't currently voting, then Dylan’s VC is wrong

Dylan, would please do anyone vote count?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 03, 2021, 10:06:33 pm
If Joth isn't currently voting, then Dylan’s VC is wrong

Dylan, would please do anyone vote count?

Fixed the last count and added a footnote to indicate the change. ctrl+f fail.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 03, 2021, 10:07:21 pm
Don't mod tired folks.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 10:23:36 pm
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e

Wait, it's too convenient that e is lying scum, therefore he's lying scum?

I mean it's too convenient that there's not a single angle that incriminates him. It's like it was fully worked out at night that this move had no chance of failing.  It's a perfectly timed power play to get to triple (but really double) lylo.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 03, 2021, 10:33:00 pm
By no tension I meant no sort of counter claim.

Read my posts. If e is scum, the claim he made basically guarantees there could be no counter-claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 03, 2021, 10:42:23 pm
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e

Wait, it's too convenient that e is lying scum, therefore he's lying scum?

I mean it's too convenient that there's not a single angle that incriminates him. It's like it was fully worked out at night that this move had no chance of failing.  It's a perfectly timed power play to get to triple (but really double) lylo.

What would be the angles which would incriminate him if he was Town? Such a play clearly does have chances of failing; we could exile e. What if iguana was a PR? What if another Cop had an innocent result on iguana? Why would scum out one of their own for a likely double lylo when they could have gone for an actual triple lylo?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 12:43:17 am
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 04, 2021, 01:19:02 am
I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e

Wait, it's too convenient that e is lying scum, therefore he's lying scum?

I mean it's too convenient that there's not a single angle that incriminates him. It's like it was fully worked out at night that this move had no chance of failing.  It's a perfectly timed power play to get to triple (but really double) lylo.

What would be the angles which would incriminate him if he was Town? Such a play clearly does have chances of failing; we could exile e. What if iguana was a PR? What if another Cop had an innocent result on iguana? Why would scum out one of their own for a likely double lylo when they could have gone for an actual triple lylo?

If e is town, there's nothing to incriminate him of course. But still, why not use the 1-shot N1? Even if to get effectively an IC... masons weren't known at that time. And getting a result N2 of scum, especially as a 1-shot, is a pretty obvious town move to claim in your opening post. He strung it along to see which way it would go, before settling on the claim of 1-shot. Those are not town plays.

And yes, you're right, things could have gone wrong. Maybe we were close to one of his partners, and he's a more disposable goon, so it was determined to be worth it.

We may exile e today. I think we should. But if a cop claims a scum result, isn't the obvious move to kill the "found scum" first? Then if that's wrong, we exile the false claiming cop. If that's the assumed route, putting his team to double lylo is a move worth making.

Another cop having innocent on iguana was likely the biggest danger. But which cop would investigate him? It makes more sense to figure out why someone avoided an exile... me, joth, even you Jimmmmm. Those make sense as an investigation. Iguana made sense as a fairly safe claimed investigation. Just interesting enough to have a reason to claim it, but not interesting enough that a real cop would investigate him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 04, 2021, 01:59:53 am
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.

Ok read this all back to me - where do i deny something?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 04, 2021, 02:11:03 am
And getting a result N2 of scum, especially as a 1-shot, is a pretty obvious town move to claim in your opening post. He strung it along to see which way it would go, before settling on the claim of 1-shot. Those are not town plays.

As someone who's done it fairly successfully, I'm not against waiting until later in the Day to claim your result (although admittedly here if e is Town, hindsight might suggest he should have just come out with it). He was seeing which way what would go? What are you saying prompted him to claim as he did?


Quote
And yes, you're right, things could have gone wrong. Maybe we were close to one of his partners, and he's a more disposable goon, so it was determined to be worth it.

Before Today I would have had no idea who the next exile would be, and given the difficulty we've had settling on an exile, I'm not sure anyone could have predicted it with any certainty. The whole math/joth thing is probably still floating around, but there's certainly no guarantees one of them would have been next.


Quote
We may exile e today. I think we should. But if a cop claims a scum result, isn't the obvious move to kill the "found scum" first? Then if that's wrong, we exile the false claiming cop. If that's the assumed route, putting his team to double lylo is a move worth making.

You may be right about this. Still, confirming yourself as scum to a Townie is always a big risk I think.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 02:22:10 am
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.

Ok read this all back to me - where do i deny something?

After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

While we're at it, you can try to answer this: You say you reread EFHW N1 and changed your mind on her. What made you change your mind?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 09:34:34 am
It seems that noone wants to talk to me. I shall need to talk to myself then.

I'm going on another premature quest to find the missing partner for an iguana/Swowl team. This time, we are going to focus on D1. All three candidates have been wagoned on D1, so that should be a well of information.

At the end of D1, Swowl is on joth and iguana is on mathdude. So right there that seems dangerous for scum - unless the third scum is Jimmmmm. It is worth pointing out that Swowl moved to joth more recently, bringing that wagon equal to mathdude's. That would be quite the bold bus. iguana on the other hand had been chilling out on the mathdude wagon for quite some time, it could well be that this was an early bus that iguana felt they couldn't get out of. It's also worth pointing out that neither Swowl nor iguana had joined the Jimmmmm wagon, and instead iguana was hanging out on the counter-wagon on EFHW at the time.

Overall rating for the third partner from this: Jimmmmm > mathdude > joth

Now let's check out D2 voting patterns. The most interesting crossroads for D2 was this vote count:

mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah,
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (4): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....

Now, unless joth is scum, we have 2 scums on the gkrieg wagon here. Let's examine the 3 cases separately.

joth is scum: In that case, Swowl is bussing, and the 2 other scum try to push alternate wagons on town. Sensible enough. The pressure on joth wasn't huge I feel like, they wouldn't need a concentrated push.

mathdude is scum: That means we have a wagon with no scum on mathdude, and iguana/mathdude jumping the gkrieg wagon to get a good alternative. A bit clumsy maybe, but they certainly need to prevent the mathdude exile here.

Jimmmmm is scum: This makes the least amount of sense, though not by a large margin. There would be no reason for 2 scum to jump on a lurker exile because no scum is in any danger of being exiled. They could of course still do it if they feel it fits their play, but it's nothing big.

Overall, this does little to change my D1 reads, except maybe to make Jimmmm a little less likely scum.

Unfortunately, there is no clear picture from this on who the third partner is. Guess we're going to have to get into rereads and stuff. But that can wait until at least one of my scumreads is flipped.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 09:41:27 am
Iguana/swowl/math works, doesn't it?

Using the referenced D2 vote count, it is no bussing, 2 on gkrieg (avoiding a mathdude exile) and one on an alternative (joth)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 09:48:31 am
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.

Ok read this all back to me - where do i deny something?

After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

While we're at it, you can try to answer this: You say you reread EFHW N1 and changed your mind on her. What made you change your mind?

Another thing to note- scum!faust may have picked up on the whole breadcrumb thing and targeted swowl to be the NK N2 rather than EFHW. Town points for faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 09:55:55 am
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.

Ok read this all back to me - where do i deny something?

After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

While we're at it, you can try to answer this: You say you reread EFHW N1 and changed your mind on her. What made you change your mind?

Another thing to note- scum!faust may have picked up on the whole breadcrumb thing and targeted swowl to be the NK N2 rather than EFHW. Town points for faust
Thanks I guess -  but I don't think scum!faust would have done this. The smarter play is to kill EFHW and block Swowl. Which is what I assumed happened until Swowl's claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 09:58:50 am
I need to go back and look at all of those things, but I am more interested in finishing the day off.

I say MiX and Didds get an opportunity for any final input (because one of them won't last the night), and we get the exile done.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 09:59:04 am
Also the only way this gives me town points at all is if you believe Swowl is town - and then I have to ask: Why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 10:00:14 am
I say MiX and Didds get an opportunity for any final input (because one of them won't last the night), and we get the exile done.
But the other will and can just convey the final input that the dead Mason shared during the Night.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 10:01:32 am
Also the only way this gives me town points at all is if you believe Swowl is town - and then I have to ask: Why?

It gives you town points because you processed the concept that swowl breadcrumbed during the day, rather than during the night looking for a NK target.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 10:03:22 am
I need to go back and look at all of those things, but I am more interested in finishing the day off.

I say MiX and Didds get an opportunity for any final input (because one of them won't last the night), and we get the exile done.

Why do you care about us? Shouldn't you wait as long as possible? You probably die if iguana flips today?

Also, I would like time to reread the game. I know I could've done this earlier, but I didn't. So unless it's somehow anti-town to wait, wait until 24 hours before deadline.

Also the only way this gives me town points at all is if you believe Swowl is town - and then I have to ask: Why?

It gives you town points because you processed the concept that swowl breadcrumbed during the day, rather than during the night looking for a NK target.

Hmm? But didn't faust have this idea at night?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 10:04:04 am
Also the only way this gives me town points at all is if you believe Swowl is town - and then I have to ask: Why?

It gives you town points because you processed the concept that swowl breadcrumbed during the day, rather than during the night looking for a NK target.
But I was very much aware of the breadcrumb during D2 already. That's why I said this:
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.
I even used the same wording as Swowl!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 10:05:44 am
Also the only way this gives me town points at all is if you believe Swowl is town - and then I have to ask: Why?

It gives you town points because you processed the concept that swowl breadcrumbed during the day, rather than during the night looking for a NK target.
But I was very much aware of the breadcrumb during D2 already. That's why I said this:
The people on Swowl should just move away because that's a stupid wagon.
I even used the same wording as Swowl!

Fine, no more town points for you
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 10:06:41 am
I maintain that I should receive townpoints on account of pointing out your flawed assignment of townpoints!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 10:07:48 am
I maintain that I should receive townpoints on account of pointing out your flawed assignment of townpoints!

Townpoints for this post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 10:07:57 am
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Being in the same time zone as faust I read this as though he had the epiphany literally "last night" - i.e. this post happened at 6:45am Germany time, the light bulb switched on sometime after he quit posting the previous night, but during the day
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 04, 2021, 10:09:04 am
I had an epiphany last night. I think I have solved the game. Massclaim right now is stupid and we shouldn#t do it; if you want to know who has what PR you can just read the thread.

Being in the same time zone as faust I read this as though he had the epiphany literally "last night" - i.e. this post happened at 6:45am Germany time, the light bulb switched on sometime after he quit posting the previous night, but during the day
That's correct; the epiphany was about MiX and Didds being Masons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 04, 2021, 02:43:56 pm
I mean IFFFF E! is lying, then it ends up 2v3 two days from now in a best case scenario for skum.
Today exile II
Tonight Skum kills mason 1
Tomorrow Exile E!
That night skum kills mason 2.
That leaves [Swowl, Faust, Joth, Math, Jimmm] with 2 skum in it.
We then have to exile. And we have to be right. Then skum shoots, assuming we are still playing, and it is 1v2. final day.

OTOH if it went the other way and we were to exile E! (in this case they flipping skum) that would mean there are 3 ICs in the game (masonsX2 + E!). We exile E!, thats 8. skum would kill one of them, then we would have 2v5. Lets just say town exile that day becaues that is what they would plan for, now we are at 2v4. Then they kill another IC at night. We wake up in two days from now 2v3.
Say we find skum that day, cool cool cool. Still 2v1.

All of it ends up at the same place. Why does skum E! doe this here?

Vote: Iguana

Are you EFFING kidding?

You lay out two scenarios here and you call them equal, except they are TOTALLY NOT EQUAL!

In scenario one, we misexile iguana ---> one town exile, and now we are at LyLo suddenly.

In scenario two, you add SOME RANDOM MISEXILE into the equation such that the result is we end up in the same place!

That is not a fair assessment at all! In scenario 1, I'm the misexile. In scenario 2, even though town chose right and exiled 2.7, we end up in the same place because we effed up about some other effing thing later on! So in other words, exile correctly today and we still get another chance to eff things up later!

And I'm getting exiled because of analysis like this?

That’s fair.
I was doing a kind of worst case scenario as things unfold, but yeah tomorrow’s choice does hold a lot of weight.

But to be fair, I want to exile you because of the cop result E says he has, the analysis is kind of secondary back up info that makes me just feel better about E!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 04, 2021, 02:52:09 pm
The only town angle I could see for his play was trying to draw the nightkill, but he denied he was doing that.
I said exactly “I thought  I could draw the night kill”.
You said that about today, not D2.

Ok read this all back to me - where do i deny something?

After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

While we're at it, you can try to answer this: You say you reread EFHW N1 and changed your mind on her. What made you change your mind?

I just typed something out. It is not my fault you mistakenly read more into than you should. I’ll grab my efoo notes when I get to a desktop, but honestly it was just “this is town efoo I’m being dumb”
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:10:13 pm
Actually rereading now.

Just going to say it's funny that e's vote is parked on iguana for most of D1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:15:19 pm
For all the discussion of us not being RVS, the weekend start we've had feels very RVSy even for a normal game.

Mathdude's comments here

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

remind me a bit of when he OMGUSed me in the last game here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20798.msg875111#msg875111)

It has that same attitude of scumreading someone for reading the game differently than you. He was town there, so for right now I'm reading it as Math is town again and would want to blend in more if he was scum.

Joth and Jimmm are my biggest unknowns this game.

I vaguely remember Jim as someone who played occasionally, didn't post much, but had a reputation for being good at finding the scums with short, decisive posts. I don't remember if I've ever read a scum Jim game though...

Joth I've seen as mod and I did some reading into his old games already, but I don't know his scum meta either.

@Joth, could you point me in the direction of a scum game you are proud of?

Big "lol iguana and math are partners" post. Very big. Extremely important. Take note of this if iguana flips scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:17:21 pm
I’m trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons I’m not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

This, and posts like it which exist in all of D1, looks a lot like buddying. I would be extremely surprised if e was partners with joth.


Yes, I will keep making a bunch of posts quoting a single post in a row.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:19:20 pm
Let’s

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed

Lol!scum!math. This feels like a scumslip. Obviously it's assuming faust is town, but cmon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:27:41 pm
Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:30:30 pm
If iguana defends his partners easily, then the scum team's iguana/math/Jimmmmm. And I don't have a reason not to think this is the team yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 04, 2021, 04:34:37 pm
Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:46:16 pm
Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged

Why? There's no reason to do that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 04, 2021, 04:57:22 pm
Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged

Why? There's no reason to do that.

No reason to distance yourself from your partner?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 04:58:55 pm
Reading iguana's D1, it's clear he's not partnered with faust. He's fighting him way too much way too early.

surely that could be staged

Why? There's no reason to do that.

No reason to distance yourself from your partner?

No reason to only interact with your scumbuddy. No reason to fight with your scumbuddy.

Meh I literally just got to a post that makes it possible faust and iguana are partnered so I don't feel like justifying this anymore.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 05:02:49 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 04, 2021, 05:11:13 pm
The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

It's the home stretch now. Exile iguana today, math tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 05:14:09 pm
The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

It's the home stretch now. Exile iguana today, math tomorrow.

--lose the game because faust got away with everything? Not on my watch. I'm outing the scumteam today, and that means rereading everything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 05:38:31 pm

I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE

I'm gonna back us up a million years and point this post out. I thought it was townie. I basically was trying to articulate a town read on Jim and he rejected my townread as a misreading of his posts. If you are scum, I think you take the free town points when you are under pressure.

At the time, I was going to share this as a reason to think that Jim was town. Then, e pointed out if Jim is the towniest, we should look on wagon for scum and went for Mathdude. That's why I ended up there. Then Jim did a million things, and some of them were scummy as hell TBH and recently he's been hella towny again and I'm starting to lose track.

But the fact remains that this was a townie post and it was produced not before any pressure was on him but at least before tons and tons of people were starting to say he was the best exile and so I think it has more weight to it than posts he was making specifically knowing that he was fighting for his life.

As for Math himself, that is a tough one to read.

Last game Math was town, and I didn't share this but I read almost everything Math said as scum. I also noticed in the speccy at the end, where MiX and Galz had solved most of the game, they continually thought Math was the last scum with EFHW/faust instead of Dylan up onto the innocent result on him. And I remember also that outside of Dwarves mafia and Oz mafia he has been exiled D1 a lot, correctly and incorrectly, or something like that.

But there was one post last game that really made me think Math was town and so I just ignored the other scummy stuff. I'm gonna quote the relevant part:

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people.

So here it is not just what he said but the way he said it that is just so townie a new player couldn't make that stuff up. "I'm starting to become aware." He's right there in the thread... realizing that he OMGUS voted me for no good reason and starting to become aware of his biases. Well... scum isn't starting to become aware of anything... they already know most things. So based on that one sentence I had a townread on Math.

This game... there is not that one sentence. There's actually a similar sentence.

-snip
 I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.
-snip

But this time, Math is talking about it as a hypothetical. Last game he was "starting to become aware" of his biases in the present tense. This game he's talking about it as a hypothetical... something he's seen many times but its not happening now.

Okay... so I'm realizing now as I type this all out that I've become incredibly fixated on a single sentence from a previous game that I used as my be-all-end-all to read a player who to be honest I sometimes find confounding and even aggravating.

But... as a whole... I think the argument still stands that Math is scummy because there is a lack of any kind of town-slip type post like he had in Oz.

So EFHW. EFHW started out scummy and then there were some posts that made me question it. This one is important I think.

I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm

"I think I see careful maneuvering." To me, this about face on Jim of going from "Let's not restrict ourselves to faust and Jim" and then back to Jim again but for what look like very authentic reasons is a townie looking post. It was also one of the better arguments that Jim could be scum. So when I was reading along it was here that I was thinking, maybe Jim is actually doing this big scum show.

That being said, now I am thinking Jim is town again... so I am back to EFHW is tunneling and pushing an exile I don't feel good about. Last game I thought I had her as scum... and then she convinced me with a pretty nice case on pubby (who I thought was scum but he was town). So I know she can make a strong argument for a townie being scum as scum.

I also agree with MiX that her posts kind of egging on faust and Jim could be a scum thing. She has the town defense of really wanting to know, which she just now articulated, but as scum I think fanning those flames could be a legitimate tactic in order to distract. I also thought her most recent post saying that she didn't extend the discussion that much was kind of disingenous. Besides... the result has nothing to do really with the attempt.

So... bleh... I'm kind of all over the place with EFHW right now.

2 unknowns, 1 flipped town. I can't make sense out of these posts. They're not fitting my scum!iguana mold.

Does someone else have an idea?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 05:42:24 pm
So WCD I think has got to be town for now for my sanity's sake. MiX said that I remind Mix of himself or faust but I don't really see that. Actually the person here who reminds me of myself is WCD (except she's nicer; I'm a jerk). I noticed that last game... both of us were often reading the game the same way. So that has continued this game with us starting the EFHW wagon at first as a sort of RVS but then she was saying that EFHW was defensive right as I was reading EFHW's response to the the wagon and finding it scummy & defensive.

Also, there are a smattering of posts throughout from Didds that I agree with. Here's one:

Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

So... I don't actually agree on Math. But I have similar feelings about Jim, and am starting to feel the same way about Swowl because despite his continual assurances that he's going to show up, he still hasn't. And at some point that kind of activity goes from null to scummy when you haven't actually posted a VLA.

I realize that it's dangerous to assume that someone who has the same thought process as you is therefore town... but it worked out last game, so for now I am townreading WCD and just leaving that as very much not set in stone.

Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips.

These too. These look scummier to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 04, 2021, 05:46:08 pm
Hmm...

yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people.

Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum.

The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing.

Ah...

*iguana's wall about me*

Uh...

Okay, who is left to take a look at?

Lalight, Swowl, Joust'emmmmmm, 2.7

2.7: There's not much there, but I think what's there is towny.

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

IDK why, but to me that little bit of flair of Jim "screamed" town is something town says, not scum. Maybe it's just something e says though.

And as I've said... I like the Math case.

Lalight: I see nothing strongly alignment indicative in their posts themselves, and they are focused on faust and MiX... two of the players I have less figured out. I am just null on Lalight.

Joust'emmmmmmm:

What can I say? They definitely jousted. So they lived up true to their name. If I had to pick a scum from one of them... I'd pick faust because I'm sick of faust beating me literally every time he's scum. But actually I am null-ish on faust and town-ish on Jimmmmmmm and really don't want to exile either one today. And I kind of don't want to reread all of their ISOs because they're huge and it's about to be my weekend.

Oh...

Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

I will just. Stop rereading. I don't think I'm in the right headspace, considering this is the first time I realized iguana had cased everyone around this time.

I will be back tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 04, 2021, 06:13:29 pm
Hi friends- I just got home from work and I am DONE. Tomorrow is a WFH day so I’ll catch-up then.

xoxo
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on October 04, 2021, 10:43:22 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

I like how you keep hedging on where to go next. Calling out partners and teams. We don't even know which way to look until we sort out which of e and iguana is scum. So rather than help the undecided find the truth about e's claim, you keep focusing on things that are less relevant to today's vote.

If you weren't Mason, it'd be too easy to call you scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 05, 2021, 01:16:05 am
I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 05, 2021, 03:38:16 am
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

I like how you keep hedging on where to go next. Calling out partners and teams. We don't even know which way to look until we sort out which of e and iguana is scum. So rather than help the undecided find the truth about e's claim, you keep focusing on things that are less relevant to today's vote.

If you weren't Mason, it'd be too easy to call you scum.

You're so bad at this if this is a real thought you have. Am I the only one rereading? Am I the only one taking this game seriously?

I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on October 05, 2021, 03:40:20 am
I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 05, 2021, 03:44:43 am
I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 05, 2021, 03:49:50 am
I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 05, 2021, 03:58:29 am
I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.

I don't think breadcrumbs are that clear cut. What you said is true, or is not true, and I don't have a particularly good reason to think it's true other than you saying it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 05, 2021, 04:09:57 am
I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.

I think we are at the point where it is more useful to look at people based off how they have reacted to wagons, claims, etc., and not "in their own right"

For example, even talking about swowl, the case is convincing to me, but it will always be theoretical for MiX and others until the flip happens
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 05, 2021, 04:10:39 am
I get that you want to do a reread, MiX. But I am irritated that you ignore my case on Swowl.

First I need to know who out of e and iguana are scum. Your case doesn't help there.
My case actually implicates iguana and falls apart if e is scum.

Oh yeah I forgot about that detail. I disagree with it completely. I was trying to reread Swowl too to see if he's scummy on his own right.

I think we are at the point where it is more useful to look at people based off how they have reacted to wagons, claims, etc., and not "in their own right"

For example, even talking about swowl, the case is convincing to me, but it will always be theoretical for MiX and others until the flip happens

"The flip" being for today's exile of iguana/myself
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 05, 2021, 04:17:59 am
I have no idea why you would disagree. It's painfully obvious to me.

I don't think breadcrumbs are that clear cut. What you said is true, or is not true, and I don't have a particularly good reason to think it's true other than you saying it.
But Swowl has refused to explain his "read" on EFHW, and still could not provide any reason for why he changed his read on her...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 05, 2021, 06:02:42 am
Good morning friends!

So, we’ve heard from everyone now. There isn’t any tension with e’s claim that I see. I’m going to wait to vote until faust and whomever else have had time to reread, but I don’t have any reason to disbelieve e so I plan to vote for iguana.

Iguana, I wanted to say this now, if you’re scum, you have played really well in my opinion. Your posts defending yourself are well articulated and the frustration seems authentic. The fact that there is this much doubt speaks to how well you’ve played.

Catching up. Agree with this post pretty much entirely.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 05, 2021, 06:31:25 am
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.

iguana, what did you mean here by "my perspective"? You seem to suggest you have some extra information, but then the reason you give is from a global perspective, and then you claim VT. Why not just come straight out and say "I think we could PoE if we massclaim"?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 05, 2021, 11:54:41 am
Would someone just kill me? I need to apologize to gkrieg in the speccy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 05, 2021, 11:55:24 am
From my perspective, there are things we could gain from a mass claim. What do others think?

Could you expand on your perspective? From my perspective I don't think we should

Okay, sure. We are 6 town and 3 scum with 5 to exile. That puts us in a position where it will really help to PoE scum to win. I think claims will help us PoE scum.

iguana, what did you mean here by "my perspective"? You seem to suggest you have some extra information, but then the reason you give is from a global perspective, and then you claim VT. Why not just come straight out and say "I think we could PoE if we massclaim"?

What can I say? I'm a real poet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 05, 2021, 01:56:39 pm
well since you asked so nicely

vote: iguana

That's L-1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 05, 2021, 01:56:49 pm
err E-1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 05, 2021, 01:59:10 pm
Vote: iguana

Thankssssssss
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 05, 2021, 02:00:30 pm
Meh.

It's not like I was rereading today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: jotheonah on October 05, 2021, 02:12:05 pm
oy vey
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 05, 2021, 02:14:35 pm
I'm town :( you guys were determined to exile me and doing all kinds of bad analysis. I figure once you see my flip you'll stop wasting your time on a wrong idea and have a chance to actually solve the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: MiX on October 05, 2021, 02:20:17 pm
I'm town :( you guys were determined to exile me and doing all kinds of bad analysis. I figure once you see my flip you'll stop wasting your time on a wrong idea and have a chance to actually solve the game.

You literally voted yourself. Save your breath. For all you know 3 scum are on your wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2021, 02:29:20 pm
Vote: iguana

Thankssssssss

Dude! What the?? You were way more convinced that this was a lost cause than I was.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2021, 02:32:33 pm
E, Swowl, faust, and Joth

Iguana, who are the scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 05, 2021, 03:00:08 pm
You literally said you didn't want to hear from me anymore
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2021, 03:49:45 pm
You literally said you didn't want to hear from me anymore

You misread that entirely
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2021, 03:56:26 pm
I think you must be referring to this: 

By no tension I meant no sort of counter claim.

My reads are terrible, so I try not to trust those. I see you standing close to me at se real points in the game, which is a way of making me feel warm toward you, which has worked but is also a known problem for me.

So, I’m not evaluating you as much as I’m evaluating e which is why you think I’m not interacting with you. I mean, I guess it is in fact a lack of interaction, but it’s not an active ignoring or an attempt to dismiss you.

If I think e is a cop and the result on you is imposter, then it doesn’t matter what I think of you or the arguments you’ve made. Saying that e has acted scummy is asking me to read him, which goes back to my reads are terrible. That he was scum reading MiX and I was a position shared by a lot of folks including gkrieg and EFHW.

Right now I am much more interested in what everyone other than you and e are saying. I expect that scum will line up in one way or another.

But it’s the weekend and I’ve been family centered (our kid turned 13 yesterday! WTF?!!) so I haven’t read closely, but also I’m also not voting.

But this is all about relative weight. I literally say that there is no attempt to silence or dismiss you and I also said that I wasn't voting because I wasn't ready to commit and didn't have time to think clearly. Which I would have had if the day hadn't ended more than 24 hours early.

It's irrelevant now, but it seems like it would have been a good idea to let MiX and I get to a deciding place before jumping the gun. Oh well.  I stand my position that you have played well this game, at least until you offed yourself. :)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 05, 2021, 04:03:30 pm
Thread locked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 05, 2021, 04:16:18 pm
Red walked down to the communications room to fix the radio, but saw Brown lurking in the corner instead of fixing the machine. Brown took a few steps towards Red, and right as Red thought their time was up, Orange walked in and Brown turned towards the radio and fixed it. Red ran for the button and called a meeting, yelling, "That comms sabotage was a trap! Get Brown out of here!" "What are you talking about?" Brown replied, "You were in there the whole time, and you were about to kill me until Orange walked in." Orange wasn't sure who to trust at first, but eventually decided that since Red was closer to the door, they were probably the one telling the truth, so the Crew threw Brown out the airlock.

iguanaiguana has been exiled. They were an Imposter-Aligned Roleblocker.

Vote Count 3.Final

iguanaiguana (5): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust, jotheonah, iguanaiguana
2.71828..... (1): mathdude
Not Voting (3): MiX, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Night 3 will end Thursday, October 7, 2021, at 4:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2021, 05:09:40 pm
Cyan walked into electrical to download some diagnostic data, when suddenly the lights went off. "Good thing I'm right here to fix that quickly, I guess." Just as they turned to walk towards the control panel, they heard the sound of a vent creak open behind them in the dark.

MiX has been killed. They were a Crew-Aligned Mason.

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (7): Swowl, faust, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to exile. Day 4 will end Thursday, October 14, 2021, at 5:00 pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 07, 2021, 06:43:22 pm
Quick rundown of remaining candidates:

Swowl/faust - My biggest suspects. Will take some further re-reading to determine whether faust is likely to bus his partner Swowl in the way he did Yesterday.

math/joth - I've been of the belief that each of these is Town, but PoE may call for me to rethink that.

e - Most likely Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2021, 06:49:52 pm
I'm sticking with my elaborate double-bluff theory where e claims cop, "investigates" partner 1, then partner 2 tells town all about it and they all hope that it's too crazy for anyone to believe.

I just really want it to be true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2021, 06:50:52 pm
but also, if it's not faust/e/iguana for the insane win it's probably someone/Swowl because I've been scumreading that guy all game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2021, 06:56:13 pm
also also faust is a good bet either way. because if e IS town it's pretty suspicious how far faust went to sew doubt about his towniness.

but Swowl makes about as much sense as a partner for faust as e does.

so maybe it's like faust/Jim or faust/math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2021, 06:57:22 pm
I have a pretty strong townread on Jim at this point

scum to chum is

WCD
Jim
e
math
faust
Swowl

I guess? Man, I wish I felt surer about things generally.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 07, 2021, 06:58:22 pm
chum to scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 07, 2021, 07:12:20 pm
chum to scum?

I'm sure he meant what he said...

I have a pretty strong townread on Jim at this point

scum to chum is

WCD
Jim
e
math
faust
Swowl

I guess? Man, I wish I felt surer about things generally.

He's definitely calling WCD the scummiest.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 07, 2021, 07:12:54 pm
Hi hi hi hi!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 07, 2021, 07:24:24 pm
Can everyone post their chum to scum list?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 07, 2021, 07:40:39 pm
Can everyone post their chum to scum list?

This seems like a good idea... yours obviously gets posted last.

I was just reading MiX D3 posts. He spent a lot of time fixating on iguana's posts, but didn't cast a vote (likely because iguana's quick-hammered). He also spent a bunch of time saying I scum-slipped, that I was partnered with iguana, etc. At one point, he said Jimmmmm was obvious town, and another time he said scum was Jimmmmm/me/iguana. There's a few other things, but these stood out to me.

Putting kids to bed now... back later
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 07, 2021, 08:10:50 pm
chum to scum?

yes that was upside down
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 07, 2021, 10:10:51 pm
My list... chum to scum

WCD - obvious
joth - nothing specific, but generally getting town vibes
e - I really want to believe the cop claim
Jim - mostly null... nothing has stood out from him since D1
Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 12:40:08 am
also also faust is a good bet either way. because if e IS town it's pretty suspicious how far faust went to sew doubt about his towniness.
I'm very confused. What is this about? And why is it suspicious anyway?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 12:50:07 am
Can everyone post their chum to scum list?

This seems like a good idea... yours obviously gets posted last.
I don't think it's helpful at all. People need to do some rereading, figuring out possible partner interactions. Posting a list of their biases isn't going to accomplish anything.

That said, I know who at least one scum is.

Vote: Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 12:51:56 am
faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda
Can you be more precise? What agenda would I have followed there?

Also, I know this isn't going to go well with some of you, but if there is 3 ICs to choose from, why would scum!me go for the one who defended me the hardest?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 12:54:17 am
Town-scum

Didds/e
faust
Jimmmm
Joth
Math
Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 01:07:02 am
Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
this is what I mean about scum to chum lists by the way. It's D3 with a scum flip and mathdude doesn't have anything better on Swowl than "he's lurking". That's not going to help us.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 01:07:27 am
It's D4, sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 02:58:06 am
While we're at it, you can try to answer this: You say you reread EFHW N1 and changed your mind on her. What made you change your mind?
I just typed something out. It is not my fault you mistakenly read more into than you should. I’ll grab my efoo notes when I get to a desktop, but honestly it was just “this is town efoo I’m being dumb”

Before I get into anything new.... I did not manage to get the response to this out before days end. Here are the small things I found skummy at first that I re read differently at night with more time.

BEFORE - This is the first back and forth I read as skummy from EFHW. When I read this originally it came off as skummy. Pushing a weak case for weak reasons that really do not matter. At the time, it seemed like she was leaving the door open for something without voting which seemed off.
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I don’t know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.
AFTER - However, after finishing a my read back night 1, I realized that EFHW was actually just being herself and this was skum hunting. Trying to push the game forward.


BEFORE - At first I read this as overly defensive. Asking what people thought was skummy so they could respond to those things instead of just defending the situation in general.
Apologies to those who don't feel they were doing RVS. I was stuck in it, so getting out of it myself was the main point of what I was saying. I actually think my question to mathdude was sufficiently incisive. Why is he calling for people to join him on the wagon at the same time he is calling it RVS, maybe, he isn't sure?

I am lacking insight into which posts sound defensive. Can you point to them?
AFTER - During my read I realized that EFHW had literally contributed nothing but fluff outside of the single post (the first quote in this post) up to this question. So asking what seems defensive at isn't actually skummy - especially because of the wagon. Obviously, WCD then quotes the post in mention which is the only thing it could be, and EFHW says "I don't see it". Again, saw that as skummy at first, but really it isn't. If she were skum she would defend it, not dismiss it.


BEFORE - This just rang skum bells x 1000 at first. It read like she was trying to use ATE stuff to drive focus to something that probably held no weight:
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.
AFTER - But in the re read I gave her more credit for following up with this:
If angry is too strong a word, then when did your negative feelings peak?
This made me believe that she was actually looking for answers and trying to skum hunt instead of just trying to use ATE to d

She then of course has the post where she re-votes Jimmm saying that "he could do this as skum". Which, that concept, was the primary reason I thought she was skummy. I still found it skummy. However, at night, while my end read on Jimmm was still town, I did see how it was a more valid point than I was giving it credit for.



That pretty much catches us up to my Day 1 read on EFHW. After that the things I found that led me to Town!EFHW were...

1 - Ok, makes sense.
Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

I didn't know either thing before I asked. I'm sorry there were more argument posts, but there weren't THAT many, and I know I gained some insight from it. What do you see as the problem?


2 - EFHW would not answer someone else's question as skum imo.
I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.

I would like to know why MiX said joth voting for EFHW was a scumslip - was that ever explained? Was it just because it contradicted his plan?
He explains in #555.

OK and then this is the big part of the town read. Here is the wagon at end of day when she shows up and says she will move if needed:
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl

So she is and has been pushing Jim like allllll day.
In the next post she moves to Joth.
In the next post after that she moves to Math, and tries to rally both me and MiX to move to Math to make it happen.
Skum does not do that. That is suspicious as hell. That is town trying to make sure a lynch goes off when it should.

Those are very over explained notes on what led me to flip my decision.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 03:26:56 am
It's nice that your partner iguana made sure you had some more time to put this all together. It's still not convincing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:27:44 am
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

I would also like to reiterate on this bit - by "lean into it" I was just using the letterkenny verbiage that was being joked about previously in the game. A more well worded response should of been "I didn't deny it".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 03:31:39 am
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

I would also like to reiterate on this bit - by "lean into it" I was just using the letterkenny verbiage that was being joked about previously in the game. A more well worded response should of been "I didn't deny it".
I straight up don't understand this. You put "lean into it" into quotation but I have no idea where that is supposed to be quoted from, or what kind of point you are making.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:32:01 am
I mean, he doesn't need to kill EFHW. It helps his claim but it's not integral.

I am more convinced now that Swowl is scum than that iguana is, but it wouldn't be sensible to exile outside of e/iguana today.

So when you say this it is essentially either me and E or me and Iguana right?

ppe faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:32:57 am
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

I would also like to reiterate on this bit - by "lean into it" I was just using the letterkenny verbiage that was being joked about previously in the game. A more well worded response should of been "I didn't deny it".
I straight up don't understand this. You put "lean into it" into quotation but I have no idea where that is supposed to be quoted from, or what kind of point you are making.

yeah I get that and I regret doing it. It is from a Canadian comedy show named letterkenny. It mean "to keep going with it" in this context
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 03:34:13 am
I mean, he doesn't need to kill EFHW. It helps his claim but it's not integral.

I am more convinced now that Swowl is scum than that iguana is, but it wouldn't be sensible to exile outside of e/iguana today.

So when you say this it is essentially either me and E or me and Iguana right?

ppe faust
Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 03:34:40 am
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

I would also like to reiterate on this bit - by "lean into it" I was just using the letterkenny verbiage that was being joked about previously in the game. A more well worded response should of been "I didn't deny it".
I straight up don't understand this. You put "lean into it" into quotation but I have no idea where that is supposed to be quoted from, or what kind of point you are making.

yeah I get that and I regret doing it. It is from a Canadian comedy show named letterkenny. It mean "to keep going with it" in this context
I still don't understand the post that you made.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:43:08 am
After you mentioned it for the first time I went back searching for the post, and yes I can see how you thought it was a crumb, but it wasn’t intended that way.
Here you deny that you intended the EFHW posts as a crumb, but leaving a fake crumb in order to be nightkilled would be the only possible town motivation for what you did.

I would also like to reiterate on this bit - by "lean into it" I was just using the letterkenny verbiage that was being joked about previously in the game. A more well worded response should of been "I didn't deny it".
I straight up don't understand this. You put "lean into it" into quotation but I have no idea where that is supposed to be quoted from, or what kind of point you are making.

yeah I get that and I regret doing it. It is from a Canadian comedy show named letterkenny. It mean "to keep going with it" in this context
I still don't understand the post that you made.

I don't understand what you are not getting.
By not denying it straight out I thought I had a chance to draw a NK. Then we went to claims, and that didn't work out. I considered lying and claiming cop to draw the kill, but I was worried about the damage that my result claim may have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 03:46:18 am
Exile all people who claimed to have considered lying.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:50:15 am
Exile all people who claimed to have considered lying.

Not fair - my intentions were good and I decided against them because they could a horrible outcome
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 03:53:17 am
You say somewhere in the previous day that "I claimed VT because I got caught when Iguana claimed".

What did you mean by that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:07:33 am
You say somewhere in the previous day that "I claimed VT because I got caught when Iguana claimed".

What did you mean by that?
I don't think I said that. You got caught because e claimed Cop, and then your claiming Cop as well would not have looked as good as you wanted.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:10:19 am
It's sad when you only have scum to interact with.

Anyways, I'm off to rereading iguana and Swowl I suppose. Afterwards I'm going to release The Swowl Case: Extended Cut. It will, as they say, crack this game wide open.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 04:19:09 am
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 04:20:26 am
It's sad when you only have scum to interact with.

Kind of want to say "tell me about it" at this point
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:49:32 am
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:09:59 am
Faust, what do you think is the chance, currently, that e is scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 06:11:55 am
Faust, what do you think is the chance, currently, that e is scum?
Low? If I had to give a random percentage it would be somewhere around 5%. Should Swowl flip town, that number goes up, but I very much doubt that is going to happen.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 06:24:49 am
also also faust is a good bet either way. because if e IS town it's pretty suspicious how far faust went to sew doubt about his towniness.
I'm very confused. What is this about? And why is it suspicious anyway?
Oh I read it again and I think I get it now. By "his townieness" you're not referring to mine but to e's.

I'm not sure that is a good scum move there. I mean if a Cop claims a guilty result, almost all of the time the guilty result is exiled. I don't think I could have won that particular battle, so it only paints me in a bad light. Better to cut your losses there as scum I'd think.

It's worth pointing out that in the scenario where both e and Swowl are town, scum would have already known that Swowl wasn't a Cop after e's claim. But that revelation was what pushed me over to iguana. If I'm scum there then I built a case on e that I knew from the get-go was going to fall apart.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:35:36 am
Here’s the thing about faust: scum or town, his PR reads are genuine. He genuinely spotted the masonry and he genuinely thought Swowl had crumbed cop. I’m willing to take that as a given just based on the genuineness of his interactions and posts around those topics.

scum!faust is way more likely to be looking for PR crumbs, so there’s that.

town!faust is more likely to share those reads with the class, especially if he thinks they solve the game, so there’s that.

Outing the masons, as many have said, seems NAI— once scum!faust knows they exist it doesn’t matter if he tells or not, they’re just ICs waiting to happen and telling it early gives some town cred (somehow, I know this seems like a contradiction with my saying it’s NAI, but I think at the time it did seem towny).

But I get stuck on the cop thing. The town narrative is straightforward: town!faust is skeptical of e’s cop claim because he thinks there’s another cop about to claim, and he’s said as much, which would make e’s claim a pre-emptive counterclaim, a perfectly cromulent scum move. And a cop and a 1-shot cop is at this point unlikely to impossible (I suck at understanding this set up so someone else can clarify which). So scum!faust rejects e’s cop claim out of the gate but then comes around on it when Swowl claims VT. faust genuinely claims to have no insight on whether e would choose to fake-investigate a partner or a towny, which is fair.

Ok, so that’s town!faust, it all seems to make sense. Here’s scum!faust and town!e:

Remember I said his reads are genuine, so he still thinks Swowl is going to claim cop. Suddenly, e claims cop. That’s not the cop claim he prepared for and he’s already committed to the Swowl cop read. E has just fingered his partner. Unexpected! Not good! Now he can go all in and bus, which is the go-to scum move here, but scum is playing a good game so far. They only need a couple more misexiles to win. And e’s claim was kind of a mess. So faust decides to see if he can’t push town to disbelieve the cop claim and exile e. Sure it only buys a day and then they’re still coming after iguana, but now the (possibly full and lying) cop is out of the way, town’s got two more scum to catch and few chances, and faust looks fine because the town narrative (above) checks out. He doesn’t know what Swowl’s going to claim at this point, but it behooves him to stick with the previously stated cop read because he knows, as town, that he would still be believing it even if, as scum, he now knows it’s unlikely to be right.

And just for fun, scum!faust and scum!e:

Faust tells his partners in the QT that he’s pretty sure Swowl is a cop and investigated EFHW. He may have investigated others as well, including possibly them. They know a mass claim is a strong possibility day 2. So they hatch a plan. Step 1, NK EFHw so Swowl’s results are less useful and seem more fake. Step 2, get in front of the cop claim with a pre-emptive counterclaim. Ok, says e, I’ll claim cop but what should I claim as my result? One of the dead townies or masons? No, they’ll see right through that. What about a guilty result on a townie? That just creates a 1v1 and the math is bad for us, especially if Swowl has a result on one of us. Clear a partner? No, super bad if Swowl investigated either of us. But incriminate a partner? It’s crazy, but crazy enough to work— unless Swowl investigated e you get an IC. But what if Swowl did investigate e, or there’s some other cop or inconsistency and it falls apart? Well, let’s pile crazy daring on crazy daring. Faust will tell town the whole plan and create so much WIFOM that they’ll be able to ride the confusion out to victory.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:36:35 am
also also faust is a good bet either way. because if e IS town it's pretty suspicious how far faust went to sew doubt about his towniness.
I'm very confused. What is this about? And why is it suspicious anyway?
Oh I read it again and I think I get it now. By "his townieness" you're not referring to mine but to e's.

I'm not sure that is a good scum move there. I mean if a Cop claims a guilty result, almost all of the time the guilty result is exiled. I don't think I could have won that particular battle, so it only paints me in a bad light. Better to cut your losses there as scum I'd think.

It's worth pointing out that in the scenario where both e and Swowl are town, scum would have already known that Swowl wasn't a Cop after e's claim. But that revelation was what pushed me over to iguana. If I'm scum there then I built a case on e that I knew from the get-go was going to fall apart.

I think you were already committed to your Swowl cop read and you thought it would look suspicious to drop it so easily.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:37:49 am
Look if I’m ranking my scenarios above in order of likelihood, #3 is the least likely so I’m realizing I gotta drop it. But if I can clear up 1 and 2 I’ll feel way better about this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:42:13 am
So scum!faust rejects e’s cop claim out of the gate but then comes around on it when Swowl claims VT. faust genuinely claims to have no insight on whether e would choose to fake-investigate a partner or a towny, which is fair.


This should say town!faust, sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 06:45:32 am
Ok, so that’s town!faust, it all seems to make sense. Here’s scum!faust and town!e:

Remember I said his reads are genuine, so he still thinks Swowl is going to claim cop. Suddenly, e claims cop. That’s not the cop claim he prepared for and he’s already committed to the Swowl cop read. E has just fingered his partner. Unexpected! Not good! Now he can go all in and bus, which is the go-to scum move here, but scum is playing a good game so far. They only need a couple more misexiles to win. And e’s claim was kind of a mess. So faust decides to see if he can’t push town to disbelieve the cop claim and exile e. Sure it only buys a day and then they’re still coming after iguana, but now the (possibly full and lying) cop is out of the way, town’s got two more scum to catch and few chances, and faust looks fine because the town narrative (above) checks out. He doesn’t know what Swowl’s going to claim at this point, but it behooves him to stick with the previously stated cop read because he knows, as town, that he would still be believing it even if, as scum, he now knows it’s unlikely to be right.
This narrative implicitly assumes that Swowl is town. Is there a narrative for scum!faust, town!e, scum!Swowl or does me being scum only work if both e and Swowl are town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 06:46:53 am
No actually, the above doesn't make sense. You claim that scum!me didn't know what Swowl was going to claim, but that is plainly false regardless of Swowl's alignment.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:54:55 am
No actually, the above doesn't make sense. You claim that scum!me didn't know what Swowl was going to claim, but that is plainly false regardless of Swowl's alignment.

I don’t understand.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 06:56:49 am
This narrative implicitly assumes that Swowl is town. Is there a narrative for scum!faust, town!e, scum!Swowl or does me being scum only work if both e and Swowl are town?

My prior that your PR reads are genuine precludes you and Swowl being scum together.

If you’re town and Swowl’s scum I think scenario 1 still works.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2021, 07:15:44 am
Good morning!

I’m sorry that No one is awake to chat with you faust. It was good to see the discussion from you and Swowl, though.

I don’t see anyway that Swowl and faust are partners. One advantage of flipping Swowl today is that it would vindicate/incriminate faust, depending. But I also can’t see a scenario where scum hard busses a partner now. There aren’t enough choices.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2021, 07:16:42 am
“Cromulent” Joth! Well done, my wordy friend!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 07:23:35 am
It's good to spell this out since we know the setup now.

Scum has started the game with the following roles: Roleblocker, 1-shot Strongman, Goon. That outcome means that immediately, they knew the setup was either TTTTXX or TTTXXX (where X stands for an unknwon letter). I.e., there are at most three letters that give town powers.

At start of D3, scum has the following information: There is a 1-shot Doctor and there are Masons. How could that happen?
Masons only happen with M or MMM. But MMM would mean there is no space for other PRs. Since EFHW flipped other PR, it must be M.
So we have TTTMXX.

Now, there are 2 ways to get a 1-shot Doctor: Either DD (giving Doctor + 1-shot Doctor) or E (giving just a 1-shot Doctor). With DD, there would be another PR out there that is a Doctor. With E, the remaining letter could be anything.

Then, e claims Cop (assuming e is town here). A full Cop requires 2 letters: CC (or EEE). But scum already knows there isn't room for that. So e is a 1-shot Cop, which they now know. But then they know the setup: It's TTTMEC (or TTTMEE, which is equivalent). There is no room for another town PR, so after that claim scum knows that all other townies are VTs.

This means that A) at the time after e's claim, scum knew town!Swowl would claim VT B) at the time after e's claim, scum knew he wasn't a full Cop. joth's above narrative says that my decision to push for e's exile was based on not knowing what Swowl would claim and not knowing whether e is a full Cop, but both of these points are proven wrong by the above.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 07:40:51 am
This is helpful.

It weakens my case for scum!faust (which is good).

I don’t think it destroys it. It means that you knew Swowl was going to claim VT but, knowing that you wouldn’t know that as town, you had to play-act until he did. The next move would be to re-read and see if there’s any hint of fakery in your interactions around Swowl’s claim.

Also helpful to know that scum knew e was actually 1-shot— this makes it not suspicious that e is still alive.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2021, 07:48:53 am
Faust, that is a very clear explanation of how the set up works. Thank you.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 07:57:03 am
I don’t think it destroys it. It means that you knew Swowl was going to claim VT but, knowing that you wouldn’t know that as town, you had to play-act until he did. The next move would be to re-read and see if there’s any hint of fakery in your interactions around Swowl’s claim.
This may be true, but I don't think scum!me would have needed to push the e case on doomed pretenses there. I could have

A) built the case in a way that remains intact once Swowl claims if I really wanted to push an e misexile
B) acted as though I believed in there being 2 Cops until Swowl's claim.

Pushing a doomed case on e that would leave me forced to pivot to iguana eventually seems like the worst of both worlds.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 08:31:21 am
yeah, a narrative for both faust and me as scum is a bit fantastical.  Easiest explanation is that both faust and I are town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 08:35:43 am
Ok faust has me convinced.

So with faust and e in my towncore, it pretty much has to be math and Swowl unless it’s Jim and he’s been fooling me.

I think I need to reread those three. No idea if I’ll have time though— if I don’t then I’ll just have to sheep Didds at the end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 09:07:23 am
I just read through Swowl and Math's D3.

I felt like swowl immediately believed my claim and jumped onto iguana after me. Which one of the biggest reasons someone might unequivocally believe me is because they knew that iguana was, in fact, scum. They also went through and were one of my most ardent defenders all day, and it is easy to defend a position that you know is true (because you are scum).

It seemed like math was just commenting on stuff that happened for activity and then eventually votes for me. I don't know, didn't really feel genuine town read to me, more of a last ditch hope that people would go ahead and exile me rather than iguana.

I didn't go back to D1/D2 to look at how they interact with each other and if it makes sense that they are partners with iguana, but I think just based on D3 I would lean toward exiling math first then swowl next. Definitely see a narrative for an iguana/math/swowl team.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 10:05:07 am
Can everyone post their chum to scum list?

This seems like a good idea... yours obviously gets posted last.
I don't think it's helpful at all. People need to do some rereading, figuring out possible partner interactions. Posting a list of their biases isn't going to accomplish anything.

This is why I included reasons in mine.  Yes, the list alone isn't that helpful.  But why people are where on the list is helpful.  It can find inconsistencies.  And it can help each of us know who to trust more, maybe.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 10:08:44 am
faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda
Can you be more precise? What agenda would I have followed there?

Also, I know this isn't going to go well with some of you, but if there is 3 ICs to choose from, why would scum!me go for the one who defended me the hardest?

More precise?  Sowing doubt.  Trying to direct traffic, after one of: a) your partner makes a claim you want us to focus on, or b) a cop claim comes out that implicates your partner and you react hard and fast.

And why would scum!you kill MiX who defended you the hardest?  Exactly so you could say what you just said.  WIFOM, I know.  But still.  Killing MiX also points a finger hard at me (trying to silence the guy that's been saying since D1, or at least D2, that you should vote me out)... we re-read MiX, follow his leads, exile me today, you're at LYLO tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 10:10:51 am
Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
this is what I mean about scum to chum lists by the way. It's D3 with a scum flip and mathdude doesn't have anything better on Swowl than "he's lurking". That's not going to help us.

Lurking through 3 full game days?  That's not a fallback, or lame read.  That's a scumtell.  Not sure if it's one for Swowl, but I know some of my past few games, I've seen at least 1, and sometimes 2 of the scum post just enough to not get prodded, and just slide through most of the game that way.  I feel Swowl's doing that here.  When he does post after an absence, there were a few too many "catching up" or "just checking in, but still gone for a bit" posts for me to believe they're genuine.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 10:12:03 am
It's nice that your partner iguana made sure you had some more time to put this all together. It's still not convincing.

Is that why iguana self-hammered early?  I was trying to figure out why he'd do that.  I figured we were starting to figure some stuff out, and he wanted to shut down discussions.

... heading out for a bit.  Back later to respond to more things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:22:47 am
Exile all people who claimed to have considered lying.

This might be the right solution... Swowl first, then e second.  But coming from you, I'm not sure it is the right solution anymore.  Maybe it's just what you want us to do.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:24:43 am
It's sad when you only have scum to interact with.

Kind of want to say "tell me about it" at this point

This will be quite ironic if we find out you are both scum.  Then you're both telling the truth!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:29:06 am
also also faust is a good bet either way. because if e IS town it's pretty suspicious how far faust went to sew doubt about his towniness.
I'm very confused. What is this about? And why is it suspicious anyway?
Oh I read it again and I think I get it now. By "his townieness" you're not referring to mine but to e's.

I'm not sure that is a good scum move there. I mean if a Cop claims a guilty result, almost all of the time the guilty result is exiled. I don't think I could have won that particular battle, so it only paints me in a bad light. Better to cut your losses there as scum I'd think.

It's worth pointing out that in the scenario where both e and Swowl are town, scum would have already known that Swowl wasn't a Cop after e's claim. But that revelation was what pushed me over to iguana. If I'm scum there then I built a case on e that I knew from the get-go was going to fall apart.

Even if there were potential flaws (below the surface), a bold move like you did, potentially with scum!you and scum!e (or even less bold, but very possible, scum!you and town!e), the whole idea of "I'm not sure that is a good scum move there" is exactly why I feel you might have done it.  People may have said it's not a good idea for scum!you to point it out, and you could just let the conversation go with it.  But since you're now the one that brought it up, it's very much WIFOM.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:33:23 am
-snip- (A bunch of discussion about what town/scum e/faust could look like in various scenarios) -snip-

This is all very good discussion for robotic mafia play, always doing what (on face value) is best for you, your reads, and your team.  But as I've been saying, the whole idea that it can be brought up here as "not a good move" is exactly the reason I think something's going on here, mainly with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:46:42 am
It's good to spell this out since we know the setup now.

Scum has started the game with the following roles: Roleblocker, 1-shot Strongman, Goon. That outcome means that immediately, they knew the setup was either TTTTXX or TTTXXX (where X stands for an unknwon letter). I.e., there are at most three letters that give town powers.

At start of D3, scum has the following information: There is a 1-shot Doctor and there are Masons. How could that happen?
Masons only happen with M or MMM. But MMM would mean there is no space for other PRs. Since EFHW flipped other PR, it must be M.
So we have TTTMXX.

Now, there are 2 ways to get a 1-shot Doctor: Either DD (giving Doctor + 1-shot Doctor) or E (giving just a 1-shot Doctor). With DD, there would be another PR out there that is a Doctor. With E, the remaining letter could be anything.

Then, e claims Cop (assuming e is town here). A full Cop requires 2 letters: CC (or EEE). But scum already knows there isn't room for that. So e is a 1-shot Cop, which they now know. But then they know the setup: It's TTTMEC (or TTTMEE, which is equivalent). There is no room for another town PR, so after that claim scum knows that all other townies are VTs.

This means that A) at the time after e's claim, scum knew town!Swowl would claim VT B) at the time after e's claim, scum knew he wasn't a full Cop. joth's above narrative says that my decision to push for e's exile was based on not knowing what Swowl would claim and not knowing whether e is a full Cop, but both of these points are proven wrong by the above.

Wouldn't scum have started with Godfather, Roleblocker, and 1-shot Strongman?

Otherwise, I do agree with your setup analysis, that we are at TTTMEC or TTTMEE (which are the same thing here), as long as e is town.

But I don't agree with your conclusion... because e could be scum.  If he fake-claimed guilty on partner (which I know people say is unlikely), then you all know it's actually TTTME, and there's still a possibility for the final letter to be E (another 1-shot doctor, or a real 1-shot cop), C (a real 1-shot cop), D (full doctor), or even B (roleblocker), or another T (VT).  I think it's even possible e is scum and you (faust) are town and were just mistaken, while he, iguana, and their other partner are glad you jumped in hard on e so they didn't have to get as involved in the discussion.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 11:48:46 am
yeah, a narrative for both faust and me as scum is a bit fantastical.  Easiest explanation is that both faust and I are town.

Easiest explanation is often the one scum wants us to believe.  If you've set yourself up well (particularly with a bold play), then it's very easy to read scum!you as town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 12:01:57 pm
I just read through Swowl and Math's D3.

I felt like swowl immediately believed my claim and jumped onto iguana after me. Which one of the biggest reasons someone might unequivocally believe me is because they knew that iguana was, in fact, scum. They also went through and were one of my most ardent defenders all day, and it is easy to defend a position that you know is true (because you are scum).

It seemed like math was just commenting on stuff that happened for activity and then eventually votes for me. I don't know, didn't really feel genuine town read to me, more of a last ditch hope that people would go ahead and exile me rather than iguana.

I didn't go back to D1/D2 to look at how they interact with each other and if it makes sense that they are partners with iguana, but I think just based on D3 I would lean toward exiling math first then swowl next. Definitely see a narrative for an iguana/math/swowl team.

This is very convenient assumptions.

Swowl believed your claim because he "new that iguana was, in fact, scum".  Or he believed your claim because when a cop finds a scum, we vote the scum out.

And I "commented on stuff that happened for activity and then eventually vote for you", as a "last ditch hope that people would go ahead and exile you rather than iguana".  My reaction to your claim was similar to faust's, in that the way you claimed (timing, vagueness, etc.) was scummy.  I did feel (and still do) that if you were a 1-shot cop that found scum, you would have opened the day with that - your role has no further purpose, and you did the maximum you could do... you found scum, and once we vote them out, you are VT.  You wouldn't have started with a strong vote on him, keeping things vague, and only when it wasn't quite going as planned, pull out the claim of "I investigated him and found scum".  And your reason was "I was considering lying" doesn't cut it for me.

I know in my chum-to-scum, I had you fair high toward chum, because you claimed cop and we did correctly exile iguana (contrary to my beliefs and vote yesterday)... but now that I'm working through this, I've changed my mind.

As far as I can see, you are likely still lying.  Maybe you are scum, and did fake claim 1-shot cop, and were hedging initially to see how it would be taken (and how the claims would play out).  Or maybe you are a full cop, lied and said 1-shot so you wouldn't seem like a threat anymore (and draw the night kill), and have 2 more investigation results.  If you are town, full cop, I don't see what your move is... you obviously have 1 or 2 more town results (1 if scum RB'ed you), but don't want to share them because then it's admitting you lied, and it messes up all our setup discussions... and you don't have a scum result, or you would have told us already, even despite the fact that it would show you were lying.

So 1-shot cop doesn't make sense, based on how you presented results yesterday.  Full cop makes very little sense.  Scum makes more sense.  Kill a partner early, get town-cred for the rest of the game, but it just didn't work out the way you were hoping.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 12:06:24 pm
-snip-
... more of a last ditch hope that people would go ahead and exile me rather than iguana.

I didn't go back to D1/D2 to look at how they interact with each other and if it makes sense that they are partners with iguana, but I think just based on D3 I would lean toward exiling math first then swowl next. Definitely see a narrative for an iguana/math/swowl team.

Forgot to finish commenting on what you said, as I got down a side trail of now fully believing you are lying in some way.

My vote wasn't a last-ditch effort of exiling you over iguana.  Read the whole day... I was skeptical of you the whole day.  I just didn't vote until later in the day, because if I was wrong, and 1 or 2 others voted you too, scum could quick-hammer to get to lylo even if it potentially implicated another one of them.

If you are scum, you would obviously want to exile me first, and Swowl next.  That's why you killed MiX last night... so you could just trail off the "MiX said many times we should exile math, so we should definitely do it".  Get that misexile, with dead-town-backup-argument so you can be at lylo.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 12:53:47 pm
It's good to spell this out since we know the setup now.

Scum has started the game with the following roles: Roleblocker, 1-shot Strongman, Goon. That outcome means that immediately, they knew the setup was either TTTTXX or TTTXXX (where X stands for an unknwon letter). I.e., there are at most three letters that give town powers.

At start of D3, scum has the following information: There is a 1-shot Doctor and there are Masons. How could that happen?
Masons only happen with M or MMM. But MMM would mean there is no space for other PRs. Since EFHW flipped other PR, it must be M.
So we have TTTMXX.

Now, there are 2 ways to get a 1-shot Doctor: Either DD (giving Doctor + 1-shot Doctor) or E (giving just a 1-shot Doctor). With DD, there would be another PR out there that is a Doctor. With E, the remaining letter could be anything.

Then, e claims Cop (assuming e is town here). A full Cop requires 2 letters: CC (or EEE). But scum already knows there isn't room for that. So e is a 1-shot Cop, which they now know. But then they know the setup: It's TTTMEC (or TTTMEE, which is equivalent). There is no room for another town PR, so after that claim scum knows that all other townies are VTs.

This means that A) at the time after e's claim, scum knew town!Swowl would claim VT B) at the time after e's claim, scum knew he wasn't a full Cop. joth's above narrative says that my decision to push for e's exile was based on not knowing what Swowl would claim and not knowing whether e is a full Cop, but both of these points are proven wrong by the above.

Wouldn't scum have started with Godfather, Roleblocker, and 1-shot Strongman?

Otherwise, I do agree with your setup analysis, that we are at TTTMEC or TTTMEE (which are the same thing here), as long as e is town.

But I don't agree with your conclusion... because e could be scum.  If he fake-claimed guilty on partner (which I know people say is unlikely), then you all know it's actually TTTME, and there's still a possibility for the final letter to be E (another 1-shot doctor, or a real 1-shot cop), C (a real 1-shot cop), D (full doctor), or even B (roleblocker), or another T (VT).  I think it's even possible e is scum and you (faust) are town and were just mistaken, while he, iguana, and their other partner are glad you jumped in hard on e so they didn't have to get as involved in the discussion.

but we mass-claimed. are you suggesting some townie lied about their claim?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 12:55:41 pm
That's why you killed MiX last night... so you could just trail off the "MiX said many times we should exile math, so we should definitely do it".  Get that misexile, with dead-town-backup-argument so you can be at lylo.

I think we've proven conclusively this game that this basically never works.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 12:56:02 pm
idk, I'm liking a math exile more and more folks
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 01:29:05 pm
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 01:33:29 pm
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)

nvm that doesn't work. No UB single M. Take it back.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 01:35:00 pm
nono! I take it back again! that does totally work. Had the UB/M thing backwards when I said it didn't work. It would work.

Doesn't matter, still not true. but it could of been.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 01:48:25 pm
I just read through Swowl and Math's D3.

I felt like swowl immediately believed my claim and jumped onto iguana after me. Which one of the biggest reasons someone might unequivocally believe me is because they knew that iguana was, in fact, scum. They also went through and were one of my most ardent defenders all day, and it is easy to defend a position that you know is true (because you are scum).

It seemed like math was just commenting on stuff that happened for activity and then eventually votes for me. I don't know, didn't really feel genuine town read to me, more of a last ditch hope that people would go ahead and exile me rather than iguana.

I didn't go back to D1/D2 to look at how they interact with each other and if it makes sense that they are partners with iguana, but I think just based on D3 I would lean toward exiling math first then swowl next. Definitely see a narrative for an iguana/math/swowl team.

This is very convenient assumptions.

Swowl believed your claim because he "new that iguana was, in fact, scum".  Or he believed your claim because when a cop finds a scum, we vote the scum out.

Yeah, I would go with explanation #2 (we vote caught scum out) except swowl was the only one to accept the result immediately and without hesitation. faust planted enough seeds of doubt that no one else just accepted it and voted. People got around to it (including faust), but swowl was the only immediate acceptance
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 01:50:08 pm
I do love math defending swowl here.

Feels like scum is just going all out defending partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2021, 03:12:40 pm
This is really interesting to me. I’m not going to weigh in yet, though, because I don’t want to derail any conversation.

I’m gonna be VLA for the long weekend. I’m going wine tasting in CA, so I’ll check in every evening when I’m doing the other checking in stuff but it would well be DAMA. I’m fully back, and for sure sober, on Tuesday.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:20:31 pm
Wouldn't scum have started with Godfather, Roleblocker, and 1-shot Strongman?
Oh, neat, I town-slipped!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:21:07 pm
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
emphasis mine
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 04:22:48 pm
but we mass-claimed. are you suggesting some townie lied about their claim?

I'm saying if e is actually town, I'd find it more believable if he's actually a full cop who lied to protect himself, than that he's telling the truth.

And when he planned the claim N2, since he is som, those setup options I listed were what they suspected, so there was actually room for e to fake claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:25:24 pm
Even if there were potential flaws (below the surface), a bold move like you did, potentially with scum!you and scum!e (or even less bold, but very possible, scum!you and town!e), the whole idea of "I'm not sure that is a good scum move there" is exactly why I feel you might have done it.  People may have said it's not a good idea for scum!you to point it out, and you could just let the conversation go with it.  But since you're now the one that brought it up, it's very much WIFOM.
The is the lamest take of all time, and I am sick of hearing it.

It's just not happening that scum says "oh this is not a good scum move so let's do it as thereby it becomes a good scum move"... okay, I think there is a certain type of player who might do that. But the choice is not "do this thing or don't do it", it's "do this thing or do something better".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:27:40 pm
And when he planned the claim N2, since he is som, those setup options I listed were what they suspected, so there was actually room for e to fake claim.
That's not true actually, because EFHW hadn't flipped at that point, and whether scum had figured out the Masonry is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:51:32 pm
Yeah, let's just go ahead:

Vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:51:56 pm
The flip that should have happened D1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 04:53:22 pm
The flip that should have happened D1
You realize that iguana was on that wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:54:31 pm
The flip that should have happened D1
You realize that iguana was on that wagon?

Yeah I actually just went and looked at that. I mean, I could do swowl first

Vote: swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:54:46 pm
Vote: swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 04:56:43 pm
we just voting now?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:57:25 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude

But really... This is a perfect bus vote. Just made the "mistake" of staying on wagon too long. Except not, because math want exiled
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 04:57:59 pm
we just voting now?

I am cool with it. Either that or a weekend waiting for Didds to do a DAMA
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 04:58:19 pm
I mean it's fine if we are but the next vote on Swowl is L-1. Technically if scum isn't already on Swowl (and he isn't scum) they could quickhammer him right now.

Just pointing out realities.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 04:59:05 pm
I mean, I know that they wouldn't do that because they wouldn't win after that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 05:02:07 pm
I am at the point where my reads are pretty set in. Unless either swowl or math flip green I probably won't be doing much rereading. Reacting to random stuff, sure. But otherwise, nah
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 08, 2021, 05:05:19 pm
This is what I am looking at:

faust, e, Didds - town core
Jimmmm, joth - solid town
Math, swowl - scum

Unless people want to make an argument jimmmm or joth is scum, I don't see my vote changing off swowl/math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 05:08:01 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude

But really... This is a perfect bus vote. Just made the "mistake" of staying on wagon too long. Except not, because math want exiled
He doubles down on that later though. It's not quite clear cut.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 08, 2021, 05:08:51 pm
I mean it's fine if we are but the next vote on Swowl is L-1. Technically if scum isn't already on Swowl (and he isn't scum) they could quickhammer him right now.
But they wouldn't win that way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 06:05:24 pm
Wouldn't scum have started with Godfather, Roleblocker, and 1-shot Strongman?
Oh, neat, I town-slipped!

How convenient. Well played
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 08, 2021, 06:10:37 pm
we just voting now?

Scum is voting. He just wants to get something going before too many swing towards thinking he's scum... just like his partner self-hammered yesterday before we could start connecting more dots. But hey, we're doing it today anyway.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2021, 06:15:27 pm
If we are voting now, I think Swowl is the right vote. But let me know before we do that so I can tell you Mixy’s thoughts
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 08, 2021, 07:44:51 pm
Cyan's body was found. Accusations became sharper, opinions solidified, and lines were drawn. Was the crew on the right track? They could only take so many more losses before it would be impossible to operate the ship successfully...

Vote Count 4.1

Swowl (2): faust, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): Swowl, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to exile. Day 4 will end Thursday, October 14, 2021, at 5:00 pm forum time.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 08, 2021, 08:53:54 pm
This is what I am looking at:

faust, e, Didds - town core
Jimmmm, joth - solid town
Math, swowl - scum

Unless people want to make an argument jimmmm or joth is scum, I don't see my vote changing off swowl/math

This is also exactly where I am.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 09:02:46 pm
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
emphasis mine

You are basing all of your logic off WIFOM from NK choice.
We have no idea how many letters are in play.
1 shot doc could be EE for all the hell we know.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2021, 11:14:51 pm

I’m gonna be VLA for the long weekend. I’m going wine tasting in CA, so I’ll check in every evening when I’m doing the other checking in stuff but it would well be DAMA. I’m fully back, and for sure sober, on Tuesday.

Uh… what now? FB msg me!!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 09, 2021, 12:26:23 am
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
emphasis mine

You are basing all of your logic off WIFOM from NK choice.
We have no idea how many letters are in play.
1 shot doc could be EE for all the hell we know.

EE is either 2x of the 1-shot doctor, or 1-shot each doc and cop.

... unless you're saying there's another role out there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2021, 01:34:15 am
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
emphasis mine

You are basing all of your logic off WIFOM from NK choice.
We have no idea how many letters are in play.
1 shot doc could be EE for all the hell we know.

EE is either 2x of the 1-shot doctor, or 1-shot each doc and cop.

... unless you're saying there's another role out there.

this is incorrect.. EE is 2x of 1 shot doc OR 1shot cop x2
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2021, 01:35:33 am
*snip*
So where does that leave us? I think it leaves us at scum!Swowl having planned to go for a Cop fakeclaim, and then after he saw e's claim he decided he had to back out. But that only makes sense if e is town.

Vote: iguana

You said it here.
Here is the thing - Everyone had claimed by the time I had claimed. And now we know that Iguana flipped RB. So in the world where I am skum, where "I got caught", what kept me from just claiming cop after everyone had claimed VT except for the masons?
This:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

How does this not work?

E- EFHW (1 shot Doc)
M - MiX Didds (masons)
CCC - Swowl/E! (Cop + 1Shot Cop)
emphasis mine

You are basing all of your logic off WIFOM from NK choice.
We have no idea how many letters are in play.
1 shot doc could be EE for all the hell we know.

EE is either 2x of the 1-shot doctor, or 1-shot each doc and cop.

... unless you're saying there's another role out there.

this is incorrect.. EE  1 shot doc OR 1shot cop x2

EBWOF
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2021, 01:36:16 am
Edit by way of Face.
typo sorry - EBWOP.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 09, 2021, 01:55:28 am
People need to do some rereading, figuring out possible partner interactions. Posting a list of their biases isn't going to accomplish anything.

This seems wrong. Of course rereads can change reads, but wouldn't Town faust want scum to have to give some reads at this point? Why is faust only concerned with the reads of Townies?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 09, 2021, 02:47:26 am
Okay I have to say, the faust/joth discussion is doing a pretty good job of convincing me that it's Swowl/math. It's hard to shake the nagging "It can't be that easy" feeling, but that definitely seems to be the Occam's razor solution.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 09, 2021, 11:47:22 am
What are all the possibilities that could happen if EE shows up?

A) 2 of 1-shot cop
B) 1-shot cop
C) 1-shot doc
D) 2 of 1-shot doc

Is it [A] or [D] or [B and C]? (This is my interpretation)
Is it [A] or [D] only? (I could see this being the intention)
Is it [A] or [C] only? (This seems to be what Swowl is saying)


I feel like Swowl is trying to obscure something here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 09, 2021, 12:22:50 pm

I’m gonna be VLA for the long weekend. I’m going wine tasting in CA, so I’ll check in every evening when I’m doing the other checking in stuff but it would well be DAMA. I’m fully back, and for sure sober, on Tuesday.

Uh… what now? FB msg me!!!

Galz beat me to it!!! No worries, drinks will be had.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 09, 2021, 12:27:43 pm
People need to do some rereading, figuring out possible partner interactions. Posting a list of their biases isn't going to accomplish anything.

This seems wrong. Of course rereads can change reads, but wouldn't Town faust want scum to have to give some reads at this point? Why is faust only concerned with the reads of Townies?

Yeah, this runs me the wrong way. I would rather talk about perceptions and think they could generate an interesting data point. But since reads are non-binding, I think faust finds them irrelevant. Still, it is helpful to me to see where my town friends are standing.

One good reason to flip Swowl today is that it reveals something about faust. I told mix that I thought that is Swowl was red, faust was an MIC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 09, 2021, 01:01:30 pm
What are all the possibilities that could happen if EE shows up?

A) 2 of 1-shot cop
B) 1-shot cop
C) 1-shot doc
D) 2 of 1-shot doc

Is it [A] or [D] or [B and C]? (This is my interpretation)
Is it [A] or [D] only? (I could see this being the intention)
Is it [A] or [C] only? (This seems to be what Swowl is saying)


I feel like Swowl is trying to obscure something here.

Ever since I first saw this setup, I have always read it as [A] or [C] (very literal computer programmer biased reading). Now that I look at it right now, I think your first option should be correct, but assume it would be A or C if it was rolled this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 09, 2021, 01:32:33 pm
People need to do some rereading, figuring out possible partner interactions. Posting a list of their biases isn't going to accomplish anything.

This seems wrong. Of course rereads can change reads, but wouldn't Town faust want scum to have to give some reads at this point? Why is faust only concerned with the reads of Townies?

Yeah, this runs me the wrong way. I would rather talk about perceptions and think they could generate an interesting data point. But since reads are non-binding, I think faust finds them irrelevant. Still, it is helpful to me to see where my town friends are standing.

One good reason to flip Swowl today is that it reveals something about faust. I told mix that I thought that is Swowl was red, faust was an MIC.
Scum's reads are fairly simple at this point; there are only so many non-IC town left and they have to exile them.

I'm not generally against these lists but I think that asking for them right away discouraged people from rereading and then forming their reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2021, 03:15:59 pm
What are all the possibilities that could happen if EE shows up?

A) 2 of 1-shot cop
B) 1-shot cop
C) 1-shot doc
D) 2 of 1-shot doc

Is it [A] or [D] or [B and C]? (This is my interpretation)
Is it [A] or [D] only? (I could see this being the intention)
Is it [A] or [C] only? (This seems to be what Swowl is saying)


I feel like Swowl is trying to obscure something here.

I am not trying to obscure anything - and I was correct.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 09, 2021, 04:15:12 pm
I’m kinda VLA today and tomorrow.

With plenty of time til deadline, I don’t feel the need to leave a vote anywhere.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 09, 2021, 05:06:33 pm
What are all the possibilities that could happen if EE shows up?

A) 2 of 1-shot cop
B) 1-shot cop
C) 1-shot doc
D) 2 of 1-shot doc

Is it [A] or [D] or [B and C]? (This is my interpretation)
Is it [A] or [D] only? (I could see this being the intention)
Is it [A] or [C] only? (This seems to be what Swowl is saying)


I feel like Swowl is trying to obscure something here.

I am not trying to obscure anything - and I was correct.

Balance-wise, it just doesn't make sense that it's either 2 cops or 1 doc, for an EE roll (all 1-shot). The cop is more powerful, as indicated by the single C being 1-shot cop and single D being full doctor. So ash's original intention of setup design is likely as I read it. But I guess you aren't the only one to misinterpret, as our mod assumed the same as you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 10, 2021, 01:07:54 am
What are all the possibilities that could happen if EE shows up?

A) 2 of 1-shot cop
B) 1-shot cop
C) 1-shot doc
D) 2 of 1-shot doc

Is it [A] or [D] or [B and C]? (This is my interpretation)
Is it [A] or [D] only? (I could see this being the intention)
Is it [A] or [C] only? (This seems to be what Swowl is saying)


I feel like Swowl is trying to obscure something here.

I am not trying to obscure anything - and I was correct.

Balance-wise, it just doesn't make sense that it's either 2 cops or 1 doc, for an EE roll (all 1-shot). The cop is more powerful, as indicated by the single C being 1-shot cop and single D being full doctor. So ash's original intention of setup design is likely as I read it. But I guess you aren't the only one to misinterpret, as our mod assumed the same as you.
? We have played this set up a lot and no one has ever brought this up. Since my time here at least.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 06:40:49 am
Okay so if mathdude is scum then there was some pretty serious 2-way bussing going on. iguana's perspective first:


Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude

Very easily jumped on mathdude early Day. I would be inclined to not take this vote seriously, except that it stayed for the entire rest of the Day.


As for Math himself, that is a tough one to read.
...
But... as a whole... I think the argument still stands that Math is scummy because there is a lack of any kind of town-slip type post like he had in Oz.

In-depth post concluding from meta arguments that math is scummy.


-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

More arguments for mathdude being scummy.


Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner?
...
...

I realize I am focusing on you. But that is because I am voting you. And the extent to which I am doing so is not as much as you are making it out to be.

Interesting interaction.


Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3 2): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust.

I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.

This is a "money where your mouth is" moment. iguana is clearly eyeing the end of the Day. Moving to EFHW here would have been the easiest thing in the world - putting her on X-2 for the sake of getting an exile through, and it likely would have taken any puff out of the math wagon, which is explicitly the opposite of what he was trying to do.


I'm here. I would exile elsewhere to avoid nexile, but right now where I'm at looks best.

This is a bit under 2 hours before deadline.


Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl

About half an hour before deadline. Very easy to move to joth to help get an exile through (in fact EFHW does so on the next post).



Well, exactly one of us is wrong about Math. More later.

I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town.

@EFHW, I was seeing a lot of posts like that last game too, when Math was town.

One thing I've noticed about Math is that he sort of describes things in black and white. In a way, it makes sense for a game like mafia because either you're scum or you're town. But he doesn't often seem to leave room for the uncertainty of things like "you might be town" or "you might be right, but you might be wrong." But the way he said I'm either super helpful or lying scum, it's like he had this gut reaction and he didn't even consider the in between.

And I think I was seeing that from Math and having a hard time not scum reading it in Oz as well.

I'll be honest. I'm still having trouble not reading every third thing Math says as scum. But I think there are enough reasons to consider him town right now that he shouldn't be the exile today. IMO we need to look elsewhere.

Big math post, too big to comment in mobile, have a gut feeling that he wants to 1v1 iguana, could be townie but I don't think so.

Vote: math

You got away from the math tunnel but boy did it not last long.

What I see is a player who is super-laser-focused on how other people read him. To the extent that a lot of his votes are OMGUS spurred. And I know enough of his meta to know that he was doing this in Oz as well, at the very least, and as town. I don't agree with the methodology but I don't see it as scum either.

It's very interesting however to note that iguana suddenly had a solid Townread on math on Day 2. Another point is that I think iguana tried super hard to be Towny, epitomised by his emotive post/s about faust. It's possible that he was committed to his scumread on mathdude, figuring that he was a likely early exile so iguana may as well get as many Townpoints as possible, and then maybe was talked out of it Night 1. But I'm having a hard time seeing scum push so hard for a Day 1 partner exile in lieu of seemingly easier Town exiles.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 10, 2021, 07:45:39 am
-snip-

But I'm having a hard time seeing scum push so hard for a Day 1 partner exile in lieu of seemingly easier Town exiles.

So, math is town. Who is scum in their place? You? Joth? faust?

You don't have a lot of options. Defending math as town in a vacuum doesn't help a lot at this point.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 10, 2021, 08:31:49 am
-snip-

But I'm having a hard time seeing scum push so hard for a Day 1 partner exile in lieu of seemingly easier Town exiles.

So, math is town. Who is scum in their place? You? Joth? faust?

You don't have a lot of options. Defending math as town in a vacuum doesn't help a lot at this point.

Doesn't help a lot? Jim actually went to reread. You've painted scum as me and Swowl, end of story. I know you're wrong because I'm not scum.

I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

More town-cred to Jim... although I already thought you were townie. If he were scum, he could have definitely left the discussion as Swowl/math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 09:03:06 am
-snip-

But I'm having a hard time seeing scum push so hard for a Day 1 partner exile in lieu of seemingly easier Town exiles.

So, math is town. Who is scum in their place? You? Joth? faust?

You don't have a lot of options. Defending math as town in a vacuum doesn't help a lot at this point.

I don't understand the purpose of this post. Obviously we're looking for scum not Town; the Day's not over yet. You, joth and (I think) faust are saying that it's Swowl/math. I'm certainly not going to just assume that's true. And if math seems unlikely to be scum, that certainly warrants consideration. If you have a narrative explaining iguana and math as partners I'd love to hear it.

You did mention iguana's vote on math, but you mischaracterised the rest of iguana's Day 1 as "mistakenly" staying on the wagon for too long, which is patently untrue.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 09:05:44 am
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

But if you're Town it should also affect reads on Swowl, as then he's either being bussed or Town. Well okay given that you've put him in your top 2 scum, he's being bussed or Town anyway.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 09:15:56 am
I mean if anything iguana's Day 1 points to joth being scum. If you're saying it's Swowl/math, then you're saying out of the 4 relatively viable late Day 1 wagons (me, EFHW, joth, math), iguana avoided the three Town ones and stuck fast to the scum one. Not impossible, but a pretty big claim, and not one which should just be dismissed as a mistake.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on October 10, 2021, 09:52:39 am
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

More town-cred to Jim... although I already thought you were townie. If he were scum, he could have definitely left the discussion as Swowl/math.
How is it Jimmmmm gets towncred when he points out flaws in the Swowl/math theory, but i don't? :(
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 10, 2021, 11:19:32 am
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

More town-cred to Jim... although I already thought you were townie. If he were scum, he could have definitely left the discussion as Swowl/math.
How is it Jimmmmm gets towncred when he points out flaws in the Swowl/math theory, but i don't? :(

Because I think you're scum!

No, maybe I missed it? What's your main concern? Was it the bussing?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 10, 2021, 11:27:09 am
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

But if you're Town it should also affect reads on Swowl, as then he's either being bussed or Town. Well okay given that you've put him in your top 2 scum, he's being bussed or Town anyway.

I think my chum to scum list earlier today (game day) had Swowl second. But shortly after, as I worked through e, I realized I had him in the wrong spot. I'd put e as my first pick now, faust second, Swowl third. So it's possible Swowl is Town with scum trying to push him if I'm right with my top two picks.

If it's Swowl/faust or Swowl/e, you're right the bussing makes less sense, since they could probably just push to exile me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on October 10, 2021, 12:25:23 pm
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

More town-cred to Jim... although I already thought you were townie. If he were scum, he could have definitely left the discussion as Swowl/math.
How is it Jimmmmm gets towncred when he points out flaws in the Swowl/math theory, but i don't? :(

Because I think you're scum!

No, maybe I missed it? What's your main concern? Was it the bussing?
Yes, it's here:
The flip that should have happened D1
You realize that iguana was on that wagon?
and then here:

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude

But really... This is a perfect bus vote. Just made the "mistake" of staying on wagon too long. Except not, because math want exiled
He doubles down on that later though. It's not quite clear cut.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 10, 2021, 01:41:36 pm
Ok faust. You can have a town point too. You did raise it earlier.

At this point, so many people have voted for me, mainly D1 and D2, I've lost track of who has and when and how long they stayed on. I know that's mostly just relevant for me (from my town perspective). But it is definitely relevant who iguana voted for and when.

I think I may need to go back and look at vote patterns again soon... carry on from where I left off nnear EoD2, go right through D3.

I'm at a family Thanksgiving dinner, but hopefully I will get to it tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 10, 2021, 03:37:53 pm
It’s thanksgiving?!? That’s amazing!!

I have had too much to drink and cannot be trusted, according to J.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 10, 2021, 03:43:12 pm
What’s on the menu for Canadian thanksgiving??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 10, 2021, 04:43:16 pm
It’s thanksgiving?!? That’s amazing!!

I have had too much to drink and cannot be trusted, according to J.

Canadian Thanksgiving, yes.

What’s on the menu for Canadian thanksgiving??

Way too much, as always. My family yesterday, my wife's family today. It's almost 5pm and I'm still stuffed from lunch.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 10, 2021, 07:49:53 pm
OK well the weekend is over.

I have defended, or explained, everything I can. Running through it again, I do not think I can do any better, and everyone seems pretty set on my flip so I am going to stop defending myself. Well... that's a lie, but instead of defending I am going to try to help for after my inevitable flip.

As weird as it seems, I think what is happening is skum is trying to set up a situation where they can go 1-2, as in after my flip, they can justify an easy faust exile. And yes, that annoyingly means I do not think faust is skum. Incorrect - yes. Skum - no.
I believe that enough to say that I think that after I flip VT, you all should not exile faust. At least 100% at least he should not be the next exile. I think that is what skum is going for.

So, I believe there are 2 skum in [Jimmm, Math, Joth, E!] and they are sitting pretty letting faust do the work for them.

I get no one believes me now, but when I flip my insights will (or might be at least) be valuable. We have 4 days until deadline, I ask for half that time (2 days) to deep dive and get thoughts out based on this. My contributions this game have been lackluster at best, so if I have to be the pick of the day, I would at least like the chance to attempt to help in some way this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 10, 2021, 07:53:01 pm
It’s thanksgiving?!? That’s amazing!!

I have had too much to drink and cannot be trusted, according to J.

Canadian Thanksgiving, yes.


You just solved a puzzle for me. My girlfriend's family is from Edmonton and were insistent I come for dinner this evening and when I told them "work has been long and I am beat" they responded with "but you have to! the holiday!"

I have been so confused all day as to what the hell they were going on about. I thought they were talking about Columbus Day (which in the states is not a holiday we normally like "celebrate" or anything)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 09:06:28 pm
I'd put e as my first pick now, faust second, Swowl third. So it's possible Swowl is Town with scum trying to push him if I'm right with my top two picks.

You have e as your top scumread? Talk me through the iguana Cop result.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 10, 2021, 09:51:31 pm
iguana from math's perspective.

DAY 1

I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed

-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

So math's vote on iguana could easily be seen as a bus; it didn't last very long and there wasn't all that much reason for it. He did later indicate iguana was hedgy, but not all that much to that either.


DAY 2

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

Holding on to his scumread.


Last night, I wrote the quoted post, in my heading really not sure where iguana was at - I had been feeling he's a bit scummy for a while, but that post of his I quoted really set off scum-bells for me.  I started a re-read of him (on phone, in bed), then fell asleep.  I was planning to follow up that post (where I "unvoted") with a post about iguana and likely a vote for him.

If someone wants to save me a little time and summarize iguana's posts through D1 and D2, that might save me a bit of time.  But I will go through them for sure, as I feel he's one person I've basically ignored this game so far - probably the most active person I've ignored (I also have almost no thoughts on e or gk, since almost nothing they have said has stood out to me, other than their basically naked votes of me D1).

Hmm. I do find it strange that math says he was basically ignoring iguana, despite the fact the he has clearly scumread him for some time, and reacted sharply to iguana sheeping him.


I had sort of ignored iguana D1, since I had only played 1 other game with him (Oz), and wanted to focus more on people I had played multiple games with, in order to get a little more info about how to read him.  I was scum-reading him off-and-on last game, and I think that's just that his playstyle will get read that way to me (the same way I will, by default, think MiX, faust, and a few others not in this game are just scummy by the way they post D1 of games).  Again, I'm becoming more aware of this bias, and trying to take it into account in learning how to read people.

I could see this as a pre-emptive excuse to abandon his scumread.

Quote
Fair enough to say he wasn't sheeping me.  Maybe I got over-reactive at that point.  Like I said earlier, I was planning to follow up that post with a re-read on you and likely a vote on you (which is what this is now!)  And part of the reason I'm thinking that is you are all-of-a-sudden now changing your mind on me.  "I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town".  Done with the argument, and just trying to deflect the attention, so I stop focusing on you?  If you town-read me now, maybe I'll ignore you?

Vote: iguana

When I had posted 2 days ago about iguana sheeping me, I was definitely under the mindset that he had been building up in scumminess throughout the game, and I'd have a big case.  But now that I've gone through all his posts, even with a lean on thinking he's scum, they aren't quite as bad as my initial gut read seemed to think they are (and I fully expect pushback on a few fo my comments).  However, I still don't like a bunch of what he said, and will leave my vote there for now.  I'll see how he responds.

So this is a very long post, ending with a vote, but a non-committal one.


I disagree that he's the towniest.  But like I said near the end of it... I went into it with a big gut scumread on iguana, then as I was getting through the posts, they weren't seeming near as scummy as I remembered.  But I'm leaving my vote there now until he responds.  I assume it will either assure me that he is scum, or it will give me a reason to move my vote.

Soon after this he indicates support for the gkrieg wagon and then joins it. As far as I can tell, he never acknowledges iguana's response to his case, or really ever mentions him again, other than to disbelieve e's claim and say that scum iguana would not advocate for continuing the massclaim.

So okay from this perspective I could totally see them being partners. math, what was it about iguana's response that caused you to abandon your scumread on him? Why didn't you acknowledge the fact that you'd changed your read, despite the large amount of work you put into forming the read?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 11, 2021, 12:49:03 pm
I'd put e as my first pick now, faust second, Swowl third. So it's possible Swowl is Town with scum trying to push him if I'm right with my top two picks.

You have e as your top scumread? Talk me through the iguana Cop result.

I have gone through it in a good amount of detail. Read back through my posts. I don't see 1-shot cop claiming the way he did. I'd more believe he's a full cop that lied to us about his role or he's scum. After you read back, let me know if you still have questions.

I see you also made a longer post about me, but don't have time to go through it at the moment. Holiday Monday turned into massive family house cleaning day, so I won't be on computer till tonight... to look at that and go back through votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 11, 2021, 06:02:18 pm
Yellow finished realigning the engines, and looked at their list and realized they were done with their tasks. They walked around for a bit, but started to get worried because they couldn't find anyone else. "Where could they all be??"

Vote Count 4.2

Swowl (2): faust, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): Swowl, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to exile. Day 4 will end Thursday, October 14, 2021, at 5:00 pm forum time.

Also, everyone other than mathdude, Swowl, and Jimmmmm are eligible to be prodded right now. No official prods going out because holiday for some folks, but post when you can.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 11, 2021, 09:26:30 pm
I am on a plane tomorrow, so I will read all the stuff from this day. As we get close to the EoD, I’ll also share MiX’s take.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 12, 2021, 12:36:02 am
I'm here, just waiting until we exile Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 12, 2021, 12:38:09 am
I'm here, just waiting until we exile Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 01:44:20 am
Day 2 vote counts, extended... as of 6 hours to deadline:

Vote Count 2.1
mathdude (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
MiX (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (1): mathdude
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds

mathdude: MiX, 2.71
MiX: joth
joth: Swowl, faust
faust: math, iguana

mathdude: MiX, 2.71, EFHW
MiX: joth
joth: Swowl, faust
faust: iguana

Vote Count 2.2
mathdude (2): MiX, EFHW
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (2): , iguanaiguana, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, mathdude, jotheonah

mathdude: MiX, EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana
iguana: 2.71
2.71: faust

mathdude: MiX, EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana, 2.71
2.71: faust

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl
faust: iguana, 2.71
gkrieg: faust, WCD, MiX
iguana: math

Vote Count 2.3
mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, MiX
jotheonah (1): Swowl,
faust (1): 2.71828.....
iguanaiguana (1): mathdude,
gkrieg13 (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana
Swowl (1): jotheonah
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg, MiX, joth
joth: Swowl
gkrieg: faust, WCD, iguana, Jim, math
WCD: 2.71

mathdude: EFHW, gkrieg
joth: Swowl, MiX
gkrieg: faust, WCD, iguana, Jim, math
WCD: 2.71, joth

Vote Count 2.4
mathdude (3): EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah,
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (4): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....

Votes from final 6 hours of D2:

Vote Count 2.5
mathdude (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
jotheonah (3): Swowl, MiX, WestCoastDidds
gkrieg13 (5): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, jotheonah
WestCoastDidds (1): 2.71828.....

math (3): EFHW, gkrieg, MiX
joth (2): Swowl, WCD
gkrieg (5): faust, iguana, Jim, math, joth
WCD (1): 2.71

math (1): MiX
joth (2): Swowl, WCD
gkrieg (4): faust, iguana, Jim, math
WCD (2): 2.71, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg

math (1): MiX
joth (2): Swowl, WCD
gkrieg (5): faust, iguana, Jim, math, joth
WCD (3): 2.71, EFHW, gkrieg

Vote Count 2.Final
jotheonah (1): Swowl
gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, MiX, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah

For reference, here was the D1 extended vote counts:
-snip-

D2 summary of votes:

MiX has voted for: math, gkrieg, math, joth, math, gkrieg
2.71 has voted for: math, faust, iguana, faust, WCD
joth has voted for: MiX, Swowl, math, WCD, math, gkrieg, WCD
Swowl has voted for: joth
faust has voted for: joth, 2.71, gkrieg
math has voted for: faust, iguana, gkrieg
iguana has voted for: faust, gkrieg
EFHW has voted for: math, WCD
gkrieg has voted for: math, faust, WCD
WCD has voted for: gkrieg, joth, gkrieg
Jim has voted for: gkrieg

D2 vote summaries up to 6 hours before deadline were originally posted here:
-snip-

For reference, here was the D1 vote summaries:
-snip-
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 02:05:43 am
D3 votes... much easier to track:

Iguana (2): 2.71, Swowl
2.71 (1): faust
WCD (1): joth

Iguana (2): 2.71, Swowl
2.71 (3): faust, joth, iguana

Iguana (1): 2.71
2.71 (3): faust, joth, iguana

Vote Count 3.1
iguanaiguana (3): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust
2.71828..... (1): iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): MiX, mathdude, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, jotheonah

Iguana (5): 2.71, Swowl, faust, joth, iguana
2.71 (1): math


Summary of votes:

iguana voted for: 2.71, iguana
2.71 voted for: iguana
Swowl voted for: iguana
faust voted for: 2.71, iguana
MiX voted for: (no one)
math voted for: 2.71
Jim voted for: (no one)
WCD voted for: (no one)
joth voted for: 2.71, iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 02:34:31 am
iguana from math's perspective.

-a long post, and I've snipped all his quotes of me/iguana out, for brevity... and points numbered for reference-

1. So math's vote on iguana could easily be seen as a bus; it didn't last very long and there wasn't all that much reason for it. He did later indicate iguana was hedgy, but not all that much to that either.

2. Holding on to his scumread.

3. Hmm. I do find it strange that math says he was basically ignoring iguana, despite the fact the he has clearly scumread him for some time, and reacted sharply to iguana sheeping him.

4. I could see this as a pre-emptive excuse to abandon his scumread.

5. So this is a very long post, ending with a vote, but a non-committal one.

6. Soon after this he indicates support for the gkrieg wagon and then joins it. As far as I can tell, he never acknowledges iguana's response to his case, or really ever mentions him again, other than to disbelieve e's claim and say that scum iguana would not advocate for continuing the massclaim.

7. So okay from this perspective I could totally see them being partners. math, what was it about iguana's response that caused you to abandon your scumread on him? Why didn't you acknowledge the fact that you'd changed your read, despite the large amount of work you put into forming the read?

1. Didn't stay long on the vote D1, because it was D1, I guess?  I'd rather see consolidated votes earlier in the day in RVS, as I have stated earlier this game.  It seemed like no one was interested, so I figured I'd come back to it later.

2. Holding on, or coming back to it more likely, yes.

3. Ignoring was explained in the quote Jim had just prior to point 4 - it was just trying to use my time to get reads on people I felt I could more accurately read.  Again, the intention was to come back to iguana later.

4. If you want to see a preemptive excuse for abandoning a read, the quote you gave here is not the one to look at.  Look at the really long post you snipped and used to create point 5.  I went in with strong intentions of reading him as strong scum, then came out the end of it with a very weak read.

5. I ended with the vote, as I had originally intended to do... but I admitted that it wasn't as strong as I initially thought, which often happens with a reread.  I was more putting it there to see if people agreed with the read or disagreed.  It didn't go anywhere, so again, no point pushing when I didn't have solid proof.  Might as well look where others were looking, and come back again later if something else stands out.

6. Support for gkrieg wagon, yes.  Everything he did seemed scummy to me.  And I was wrong.  I think iguana's response to my case wasn't as important to me as other people's takes on it - if others kept the discussion going, it was worth continuing to look into.  If not, then let the conversation die.

7. Like I just said, it wasn't really iguana's response.  It was just where else I was looking.  The "strong" scumreads on iguana ended up looking weaker upon a reread.  The reads on gkrieg ended up looking really scummy upon rereading him.  And I did acknowledge the fact that I was changing my read on iguana, right before I actually voted for him (after my long post about him)... acknowledging it was not as severe of a case as I expected.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 02:43:06 am
I think scum is within you, faust, and Swowl. If we exile Swowl today, at least Jim has started a discussion for not tunneling me tomorrow and pushing this game to a final lylo of 2vs1.

But if you're Town it should also affect reads on Swowl, as then he's either being bussed or Town. Well okay given that you've put him in your top 2 scum, he's being bussed or Town anyway.

I think my chum to scum list earlier today (game day) had Swowl second. But shortly after, as I worked through e, I realized I had him in the wrong spot. I'd put e as my first pick now, faust second, Swowl third. So it's possible Swowl is Town with scum trying to push him if I'm right with my top two picks.

If it's Swowl/faust or Swowl/e, you're right the bussing makes less sense, since they could probably just push to exile me.

Regarding the bolded part, I think I've completely changed my mind here.  I was looking just at today, wondering why they would bus Swowl instead of just pushing to exile me.  But I'm now looking at it from the long-game perspective I actually think Swowl/faust or Swowl/e is more likely than faust/e (which was my current pick for scum).

Short term thinking, push for an easy exile like me, get to lylo.  Try to deal with it then.
The trouble - I flip town, the rest of you vote out Swowl tomorrow, and have 1 more day of interactions to figure out which one is his partner.

Long term thinking, bus Swowl (whichever one of them it is).  Yes, only 1 scum left, and need 2 misexiles.  But by being the one that drives the wagon, rather than jumping on at optimal bussing time, they are much less likely to be suspected.

I think I'd be ready to vote out Swowl.  But...

We have 4 days until deadline, I ask for half that time (2 days) to deep dive and get thoughts out based on this. My contributions this game have been lackluster at best, so if I have to be the pick of the day, I would at least like the chance to attempt to help in some way this game.

I'll honour Swowl's request and not put him at X-1 yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Swowl on October 12, 2021, 03:09:33 am
Part 1: Iguana!X

-   #67 Iguna votes Joth because “early wagons are good”. There was no wagon there at the time though. II also lists a TR on Math.
-   #111 Iguana recently unvotes Joth for EFHW instead and says his top biggest “unknowns” Joth and Jimm. (No follow up vote for Joth, who now does have a wagon on him, could mean all of this is just attempt at early partner interaction).
-   #113 and #115 – More fluff with Joth (again could be partner interaction)
-   #119 – Casts shade at faust for playing the same way as he had as skum
-   #202 – asks faust to address the previous.
-   #203 – Defends Jimmm, attempts to push a case on EFHW (That is potentially trying to push a wagon forming on Jimmm off to a now known towny)
-   #230 @ faust asking again why they are hiding reasons (actual conversation with faust here, which is furthering my read on town faust)

-   #231 - For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily. (for me this means that II was self aware and making sure to go out of their way to interact with partners. FOS at Jimm, Joth, and I guess a little faust. But he is actually like… interacting with faust).

-   #233 – detailed defense of Jimmm. (continuation of either knighting or partner defense)

-   #315 – backs off faust after an explanation was given (could be partnery? Maybe?)

-   #316 – OK…. He disagrees with Jimmm on pushing faust… but then also says Jimmm is not skum for it (starting to be a trend)

-   #318 – Prods Swowl. (I think most likely because he did not like the wagons at the time, trying to open things up. Those wagons were EFHW and Jimmm).

-   #346 – Randomly sheeps E! on Mathdude. Which was him leaving a wagon of Town!EFHW to Joth as #2.

-   #520 – Digs wayyyy back to quote a Jimmm post and point out that it is towny (at this point it could be white knight, but also at this point there were only 4 wagon options [EFHW, Jimmm, Math, MiX]. We know MiX and Efoo were town now. So, he is choosing to stick guns on Math instead of taking the opportunity on Jimm. (*Come back to check on Jimm/Math/Iguana*)

-   #522 – Continues to back up his case on Math (that would be a hard bus, could be a thing, but a hard bus).

-   #525 – weird post on EFHW. Says null on EFHW, and that they are “back to TR on Jimmm”. However, I do no see the point where they were no TR on Jimmm. Don’t know what to make of that.

-   #531 – Agrees with WCD on Jimm. Disagrees that Math is town. Casts shade on Swowl.

-   #533 – GK read. Finds them skummy for defending EFHW, finds them towny for defending Math. (Going back to the self-aware concept, this could be skum partner Math because EFHW was town).

-   #535 – big post on Joth that includes Jimm. Ends up finding them both in the middle somehow, that could be shade casting on both, so I guess that is town points for at least one of them.

-   #541/542 – Town on E! (knighting). Null on Lalight (open door, which is weird because kill choice N1). Literally do not understand who “joustem” is. Casts a lot of shade on me, saying I would be the best lurker exile.

-   #548 – They continue to push Math over Jimmm, even going as far to say that Math is skummy for voting Jimm. Which tbf, at the time I agreed with. However, as Iguana is now known skum… that either means we had all town wagons on Day 1, which I guess somehow is possible, but honestly I think it is defense of Jimmm at this point with the wagons.

-   #536 – another big post pushing Mathdude.

-   #566 – Defends Joth skumslip thing to MiX.

-   #571- posts this VC:
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust
-   #572 says they still like math best, but could move to Efoo instead. Skum points Jimmm.

So EOD1 makes me feel like Jimm is a either a white knight situation or a partner, math is either a hard bus or a push, and Joth is somewhere in the middle.

I have most of the rest done, but WCD and Dpro came into town and my brain needs the night to get the rest of the thoughts out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 12, 2021, 03:09:52 am
I have gone through it in a good amount of detail. Read back through my posts. I don't see 1-shot cop claiming the way he did. I'd more believe he's a full cop that lied to us about his role or he's scum. After you read back, let me know if you still have questions.

I meant with regards to iguana's flip. I don't think you've really addressed it Today; in fact early Today you listed e as your second Town read and said you wanted to believe his claim. Why would e fake a guilty result on his partner? Obviously the answer is to hopefully IC himself, but do you really think guaranteeing a scum exile is worth that? Do you now read iguana as gambiting scum as opposed to caught scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on October 12, 2021, 03:53:10 am
Long term thinking, bus Swowl (whichever one of them it is).  Yes, only 1 scum left, and need 2 misexiles.  But by being the one that drives the wagon, rather than jumping on at optimal bussing time, they are much less likely to be suspected.
Or maybe this is your long-term strategy to get two more misexiles :)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 12, 2021, 06:12:59 am
Some questions for Swowl.

What shook your confidence?

you should already know the answer to that.

Is the answer as you see it the same as the one faust gave?

no.

What answer did you have in mind here?


I am VT.

Sorry for not correcting faust earlier, but I figured if we ended up not claiming all the way I would draw a kill, so I leaned into it a bit.

Did you realise before faust's guess that you could be perceived as a breadcrumbing? Did the guess surprise you?


As weird as it seems, I think what is happening is skum is trying to set up a situation where they can go 1-2, as in after my flip, they can justify an easy faust exile. And yes, that annoyingly means I do not think faust is skum. Incorrect - yes. Skum - no.
I believe that enough to say that I think that after I flip VT, you all should not exile faust. At least 100% at least he should not be the next exile. I think that is what skum is going for.

So, I believe there are 2 skum in [Jimmm, Math, Joth, E!] and they are sitting pretty letting faust do the work for them.

I don't believe you've said much about faust this game. What makes you think he's Town? Who do you actually think the scum are, and what indicates they're doing what you say they are?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 12, 2021, 06:20:11 am
Some Swowl/iguana interactions.


Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Indicates iguana as moderately scummy.


Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

so you tried to see who would bite. then someone bit. and then you outted your plan and bailed.
How does that make sense?

Someone tell me how this here is the scum team.


I mean....
Vote: Iguana

We are not in lylo. E! is pretty much assured to never be lying about Iguana being skum here.

I mean my argument is thus:

If iguana is scum, then we should exile e first, because scum wants us to exile iguana.

If iguana is town, then we should exile e, because... iguana is town.

So no matter iguana's alignment it's best to exile e.

.... or you know... E is town and Iguana is skum?

Alright, Swowl. Thoughts on e and iguana?

I’m thinking. Still inclined to say iguana.

Trying to find a way in which E! as skum would fake this result, and I’m not coming up with anything

Swowl immediately and consistently believes e's claim.


I mean IFFFF E! is lying, then it ends up 2v3 two days from now in a best case scenario for skum.
Today exile II
Tonight Skum kills mason 1
Tomorrow Exile E!
That night skum kills mason 2.
That leaves [Swowl, Faust, Joth, Math, Jimmm] with 2 skum in it.
We then have to exile. And we have to be right. Then skum shoots, assuming we are still playing, and it is 1v2. final day.

OTOH if it went the other way and we were to exile E! (in this case they flipping skum) that would mean there are 3 ICs in the game (masonsX2 + E!). We exile E!, thats 8. skum would kill one of them, then we would have 2v5. Lets just say town exile that day becaues that is what they would plan for, now we are at 2v4. Then they kill another IC at night. We wake up in two days from now 2v3.
Say we find skum that day, cool cool cool. Still 2v1.

All of it ends up at the same place. Why does skum E! doe this here?

Vote: Iguana

Are you EFFING kidding?

You lay out two scenarios here and you call them equal, except they are TOTALLY NOT EQUAL!

In scenario one, we misexile iguana ---> one town exile, and now we are at LyLo suddenly.

In scenario two, you add SOME RANDOM MISEXILE into the equation such that the result is we end up in the same place!

That is not a fair assessment at all! In scenario 1, I'm the misexile. In scenario 2, even though town chose right and exiled 2.7, we end up in the same place because we effed up about some other effing thing later on! So in other words, exile correctly today and we still get another chance to eff things up later!

And I'm getting exiled because of analysis like this?

That’s fair.
I was doing a kind of worst case scenario as things unfold, but yeah tomorrow’s choice does hold a lot of weight.

But to be fair, I want to exile you because of the cop result E says he has, the analysis is kind of secondary back up info that makes me just feel better about E!

As iguana points out, that was some wonky logic. I'm not reading this interaction as scum v scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 12, 2021, 06:27:53 am
Swowl, why didn't you give reasons for your changed EFHW read when asked?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 12, 2021, 07:33:48 am
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

@Swowl, why were you being stupid thinking EFHW was scum D1?

1. Because I was being stupid.

As far as I understand, faust's Swowl case boils down to these two quotes implying Swowl backed down from a Cop claim because of e's claim, in addition to Swowl acknowledging breadcrumbing (and therefore must have known he'd be perceived as breadcrumbing), but saying that they weren't intended as breadcrumbs.

So a question is... would scum actually do this?

So we know scum knew there were 2-3 non-Ts. If there were 2, then claiming an extra letter is perfectly safe. If 3, then claiming another would push scum to a full Strongman, so a 1-Shot Strongman flip would incriminate Swowl. So the claim is still safe if Swowl is that 1-Shot Strongman.

Hmm so actually, Swowl didn't seem to believe so. And I guess he was right. So according to Swowl and Dylan's interpretation it's impossible to get a 1-Shot Doctor and 2 1-Shot Cops without a full Doctor or Cop. Which means the claim really isn't safe and Swowl really couldn't claim 1-Shot Cop. He could still claim full Cop for ECCCMT, but that's probably prohibitively risky.

So that actually makes some sense. You could argue that scum chatted about this, assuming that a 1-Shot Cop claim was safe (which I think it should be according to the intended interpretation, and is also an easy assumption to make), but then after e's claim Swowl looked into it further and determined that it wasn't. If that's true it sucks for Swowl to be screwed over by an ambiguous interpretation issue.

So yeah okay. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense. I do think the interaction between mathdude and Swowl discussing the EE interpretation is something of a non-partner-slip.

It remains to think about whether the Town Swowl perspective makes sense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 09:15:59 am
I have gone through it in a good amount of detail. Read back through my posts. I don't see 1-shot cop claiming the way he did. I'd more believe he's a full cop that lied to us about his role or he's scum. After you read back, let me know if you still have questions.

I meant with regards to iguana's flip. I don't think you've really addressed it Today; in fact early Today you listed e as your second Town read and said you wanted to believe his claim. Why would e fake a guilty result on his partner? Obviously the answer is to hopefully IC himself, but do you really think guaranteeing a scum exile is worth that? Do you now read iguana as gambiting scum as opposed to caught scum?

Beginning of day, yes, I listed e as very townie. This was in light of the iguana flip. And I said that I wanted to believe the cop claim because the day before, I didn't believe it. I posted those reads at face value, without rereading. Then when I did reread, everything e did with his claim just didn't seem right for town, so I was back to thinking he was scum.

Do I think they took a gamble? Absolutely. And it was a bold one, before either of them was under much suspicion, which makes it even more believable.

If I was scum, would I do something like that, in a setup like this (I've never played this dice-rolled setup before)? Probably. The safer option is probably to claim 1-shot cop as innocent on the godfather.

If probable setup lends to no full strongman, don't submit kill, then claim doctor to create IC for town-cred or for a bold move claim RB on your teammate for full town cred like what e may have done with cop result on iguana.

But just riding it out with all scum claiming VT doesn't seem like the play unless you've intentionally put decoy interactions out early. Scum would have the best idea of power roles at the start of the game and could plan a power move accordingly.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on October 12, 2021, 09:42:56 am
If I was scum, would I do something like that, in a setup like this (I've never played this dice-rolled setup before)? Probably.
I think this is the crux of where your approach to this game fails. The question is not whether you would do something like that as scum, the question is whether e did.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Swowl on October 12, 2021, 03:09:36 pm
Some questions for Swowl.

What shook your confidence?

you should already know the answer to that.

Is the answer as you see it the same as the one faust gave?

no.

What answer did you have in mind here?


I am VT.

Sorry for not correcting faust earlier, but I figured if we ended up not claiming all the way I would draw a kill, so I leaned into it a bit.

Did you realise before faust's guess that you could be perceived as a breadcrumbing? Did the guess surprise you?

As weird as it seems, I think what is happening is skum is trying to set up a situation where they can go 1-2, as in after my flip, they can justify an easy faust exile. And yes, that annoyingly means I do not think faust is skum. Incorrect - yes. Skum - no.
I believe that enough to say that I think that after I flip VT, you all should not exile faust. At least 100% at least he should not be the next exile. I think that is what skum is going for.

So, I believe there are 2 skum in [Jimmm, Math, Joth, E!] and they are sitting pretty letting faust do the work for them.

I don't believe you've said much about faust this game. What makes you think he's Town? Who do you actually think the scum are, and what indicates they're doing what you say they are?

1. The answer I had in mind was he had just claimed he thought I was a cop and you and me were having a back and forth where you were finding me skummy.

2. No, I did not realize it. I don't go back and re-read myself. Yes, it surprised me. I went back and looked to what it was that I could of said that swayed him, and as he said it was EFHW on night 1, I looked at Day 1 and Day 2... and found it pretty quickly. I did not deep dive the concept too much, but it seemed like it would be best to just be quiet and hopefully draw a kill since "my result" was on EFHW, who was dead, could not cause any harm to the game state.

3a) Beginning of game I thought he was town based on the regular early game stuff; gut feel, interactions, etc. Next would be because he outted the masons and "the cop", which I don't see him doing as skum. Why in the world would I be alive right now if he thought I was a cop and he was also skum? That's kind of the big one.

3b) I am getting to the "who I think is skum bit", it will be in a separate post. But essentially I think they are doing what I said, because I don't think faust is skum and I know I am not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on October 12, 2021, 03:45:09 pm
If I was scum, would I do something like that, in a setup like this (I've never played this dice-rolled setup before)? Probably.
I think this is the crux of where your approach to this game fails. The question is not whether you would do something like that as scum, the question is whether e did.

Very true. I don't know if e did. But based on how he claimed, I believe he did.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 12, 2021, 07:52:22 pm
Hi friends! Sorry for the VLA, but it was a super fun trip including an awesome being with Swowl, Galzy, and DisSwan.

I’m going to download some MiX…. #890 is the post that he sees clearing e and faust. He also cleared math, largely because by #932, iguana and math can’t be partners, but went back and forth a fair bit.
We talked a lot about Joth and came up town. faust was his ride or die.

So, the end result for MiX was that Jimmmm/swowl/math was pool of likely baddies.

I’m still leaning Swowl, although his contributions today have been quality.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 12:27:44 am
We have 4 days until deadline, I ask for half that time (2 days) to deep dive and get thoughts out based on this.
This time has passed now, can we finally do the exile please?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 02:04:31 am
So that actually makes some sense. You could argue that scum chatted about this, assuming that a 1-Shot Cop claim was safe (which I think it should be according to the intended interpretation, and is also an easy assumption to make), but then after e's claim Swowl looked into it further and determined that it wasn't. If that's true it sucks for Swowl to be screwed over by an ambiguous interpretation issue.

So yeah okay. It's unfortunate, but it makes sense. I do think the interaction between mathdude and Swowl discussing the EE interpretation is something of a non-partner-slip.

Actually scratch that. Clearly the EE thing wasn't discussed in the scum thread, which means it's not a non-partner-slip. I guess it could still be the cause of the breadcrumbing thing, but it makes it less likely.

I do think Swowl has a reasonable chance of flipping scum. But I don't find faust's argument convincing. Regardless or alignment, I think it's pretty likely that Swowl didn't intend them as breadcrumbs. And now because a large percentage of people seem to just have accepted the argument and stopped any other discussion, scum have an easy out for this exile if Town, and are not incriminating themself as Swowl's partner if scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 02:22:03 am
I think it's pretty likely that Swowl didn't intend them as breadcrumbs.
I mean, he couldn't even answer your question:
Swowl, why didn't you give reasons for your changed EFHW read when asked?

He can't provide a town narrative for his actions, you can't provide a town narrative for his actions, I fail to see how there is any reason to not exile him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 02:44:46 am
Well yeah that's a point. He did explain his change of reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 02:55:44 am
Well yeah that's a point. He did explain his change of reads.
With no reason that would justify such a strong turnaround. And why he would reread EFHW at Night anyways. Personally I think that should always be scrutinized; town doesn't usually bother to reread at Night because that effort is wasted if you're killed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 03:02:16 am
I don't think that applies here. Swowl needed to catch up, and even if Town was unlikely to be the NK. And early on there were a number of people who found EFHW scummy for things like defensiveness, which weren't actually scummy. I could see Town or scum realising this on a re-read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 04:19:16 am
I’m still leaning Swowl, although his contributions today have been quality.
Is this the quality contribution?

So EOD1 makes me feel like Jimm is a either a white knight situation or a partner, math is either a hard bus or a push, and Joth is somewhere in the middle.

"My conclusion is that all of these people are either town or scum"

What a revelation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 04:21:31 am
Can we please please please just end this? Noone is actually opposed to the Swowl wagon, noone has proposed a serious alternative wagon, what are we waiting for? This is extremely tedious.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 04:42:45 am
Noone is actually opposed to the Swowl wagon, noone has proposed a serious alternative wagon

Does that concern you at all?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 05:16:07 am
Noone is actually opposed to the Swowl wagon, noone has proposed a serious alternative wagon

Does that concern you at all?
Not particularly, no.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 05:23:26 am
So who's bussing?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 05:47:06 am
So who's bussing?
Swowl's partner.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 05:55:09 am
Helpful as always.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 06:01:36 am
I don't see a benefit in discussing possible partners for Swowl before the flip.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 06:04:18 am
Well that's crazy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 06:11:49 am
Well that's crazy.
Helpful as always.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 06:13:17 am
What are you after help with?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: faust on October 13, 2021, 06:16:19 am
What are you after help with?
Nothing in particular.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 06:17:40 am
Well if you think of something let me know and I'll try to be my helpful self.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 06:55:46 am
Okay after a joth reread, my gut is telling me it's joth/Swowl or joth/faust. Some bussing between joth and Swowl sways me towards joth/faust. But MiX's adamance that faust is Town gives me pause on that too. I may need to reconsider e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mathdude on October 13, 2021, 07:33:15 am
Let's move on. Faust is right that we're getting nowhere by holding here. We're either right or we're wrong, and we won't know until a flip.

Vote: Swowl
X-1, I believe
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 07:38:12 am
Yeah you're right. I'll leave it for Didds though, in case she wants any final words.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 13, 2021, 07:44:55 am
Oh I would like Didds to comment if you don't mind on faust. Do you share MiX's conviction that he's Town? Any more reasons from your QT that haven't made it into the thread yet?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on October 13, 2021, 08:41:07 am
I’ll wait for Didds to do the honors.

Idk. I no longer feel solid on any reads. I desperately need to re-read but IRL is not going to allow for much of that any time soon (part of why I’m OK with the slowdown here, to give me a shot at having time to participate more the next day).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2021, 09:55:12 am
Good morning, friends!

I shared everything from the QT last night.  Basic recap; MiX is all in on townfaust, and is we both had narrowed the pool to Swowl, Jimmm, and math with the most back and forth surrounding math.

I think Swowl is the best choice for today.  If for no other reason then he reveals something about faust. No way that I see that the are partners, so if Swowl is town ya;ll gotta figure that ish for for us because I'm really hoping to win for the first time in a long time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2021, 09:56:20 am
Oh I would like Didds to comment if you don't mind on faust. Do you share MiX's conviction that he's Town? Any more reasons from your QT that haven't made it into the thread yet?

I am not quite as sold on faust as MiX is, but I will be if Swowl is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2021, 09:56:35 am
vote: Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 13, 2021, 01:03:30 pm
Thread locked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 13, 2021, 01:17:20 pm
One more emergency meeting, one more person thrown out the airlock. As black slowly drifted away behind the ship, the crew signed knowing deep down that they were safer and that just one more imposter remained among them.

Swowl has been exiled. They were an Imposter-aligned Strongman.

Vote Count 4.Final

Swowl (4): faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (3): Swowl, Jimmmmm, jotheonah

With 7 alive, it took 4 to exile. Night 4 will end Friday, October 15, 2021, at 1:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 13, 2021, 01:20:26 pm
There was momentarily a final post with the wrong flip up. If you saw that post in the moment before I caught it and took it down, please message me ASAP.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 14, 2021, 06:02:22 pm
If you want a short night, send a message and as soon as I hear from everyone I will start the day. If I don't hear from everyone, the night will end as scheduled.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 15, 2021, 04:14:49 pm
That newfound sense of safety passed quickly as almost immediately after throwing the next to last imposter out the airlock, another body was found. "Maybe we should have just stuck together..."

2.71828..... has been killed. They were a Crewmate-aligned 1-shot cop.

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (5): faust, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to exile. Day 5 will end Friday, October 22, 2021, at 4:00 pm forum time.

Thread unlocked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 15, 2021, 04:21:05 pm
Not surprising. e was an IC after the full Strongman flip. I guess it was the EE thing (which means we were dogged out of a PR :P).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 15, 2021, 04:22:02 pm
Not Voting (3): faust, mathdude, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds

This should say (5).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 15, 2021, 04:46:48 pm
Ok, so. One of us is scum. It isn't Didds.

We can get it wrong once.

If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2021, 05:41:29 pm
I’m alive!

Wow!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2021, 05:43:37 pm
I know who I think it is, but I’d like to hear what y’all think first.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 15, 2021, 07:44:57 pm
I know who I think it is, but I’d like to hear what y’all think first.

I wish I was this confident. I skimmed through things again at night, and I still have no idea. Absent of any further info today, I currently think it's faust - the shenanigans D3 with e's claim swung my opinion then, but I'm looking at his posts now in light of Swowl's (and iguana's) flips, and they sure say "I'm protecting my partner" first for iguana, then "bus for the win" for Swowl.

But if it ends up being Jim or joth, it won't really surprise me. I will look back at votes (iguana, Swowl, and faust) when I get back on the computer instead of mobile to check for other convenient partner protections or bussing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2021, 08:10:00 pm
Sweet. It’s helpful when you post the vote counts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 16, 2021, 02:36:09 am
Well. here we are.

What I think I have figured out is that it's not joth. So it should be one of Jimmmmm/math, and I currently think Jimmmmm is more likely.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 16, 2021, 02:37:55 am
If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.
Well, that is not entirely true. You also have to convince the room that it's not you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 16, 2021, 05:11:19 am
and they sure say "I'm protecting my partner" first for iguana, then "bus for the win" for Swowl.
They don't though, do they? I pivoted from e to iguana in the middle of the Day, and proceeded to push both scum from then on out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 16, 2021, 05:17:39 am
If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.
Well, that is not entirely true. You also have to convince the room that it's not you.

That other Town and Didds will suffice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 16, 2021, 06:40:32 am
Someone said we don't sheep dead Townies enough. So here is what I think is the most relevant/recent read from each confirmed Town on the remaining candidates, with links to the posts.

PlayerfaustmathdudeJimmmmmjoth
WCD/MiX          Town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879303#msg879303)Scumpool (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879302#msg879302)Scumpool (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879302#msg879302)Next guess for Town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878470#msg878470)
eTown core (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Scum (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Solid Town (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Solid Town (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)
EFHWNot going to vote (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877023#msg877023)Scummy - distorted the truth (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877793#msg877793)          Scummy (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877230#msg877230)No opinion (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877737#msg877737)
gkriegLikely Town (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Very scummy (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Could be scum (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Seems Towny (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)
LaLightWould love to exile (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877060#msg877060)          -Would not love to exile (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877060#msg877060)          -

Well, that's a pretty clear consensus.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 16, 2021, 09:09:39 am
If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.
Well, that is not entirely true. You also have to convince the room that it's not you.

Fair. If anyone needs me to do that I’d draw their attention to my fierce attempts to divert the gkrieg wagon toward Swowl on day 2.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 16, 2021, 11:42:23 am
If your name isn't WestCoastDidds, you just have to figure out one other person you can trust and if you're right, we win.
Well, that is not entirely true. You also have to convince the room that it's not you.

That other Town and Didds will suffice.
That's why I'm feeling good about my chances.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 16, 2021, 12:12:38 pm
It feels like the most important thing to figure out is what went down on D1. We've had wagons on all of {Jimmmmm, joth, math}. These are a very good starting point.

Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
MiX had been there early on, helping to get the wagon started, but didn't stay long.
Unfortunately this isn't super insightful. It is notable that no confirmed scum is on the wagon, but if Jimmmm is town then the third scum is there. So it's either an all-town wagon on scum or a 4-people wagon on town with one scum.

mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
iguana had been pushing for this pretty hard. This is my main issue with the mathdude case. If mathdude is scum then his partner was content to sacrifice him D1. iguana had a perfect opportunity to switch to joth "to get an exile" but didn't.

jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,
And there's the other conf!scum on here. Swowl hopped on just over half an hour before the deadline, pretty late but not so late that he could count on the exile not going through. so if joth was scum then that's a problematic alternate wagon to push.

With this, you end up at scum likelihoods of
Jimmmmm > mathdude > joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 16, 2021, 05:43:06 pm
Someone said we don't sheep dead Townies enough. So here is what I think is the most relevant/recent read from each confirmed Town on the remaining candidates, with links to the posts.

PlayerfaustmathdudeJimmmmmjoth
WCD/MiX          Town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879303#msg879303)Scumpool (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879302#msg879302)Scumpool (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879302#msg879302)Next guess for Town (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878470#msg878470)
eTown core (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Scum (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Solid Town (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)Solid Town (D4) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879031#msg879031)
EFHWNot going to vote (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877023#msg877023)Scummy - distorted the truth (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877793#msg877793)          Scummy (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877230#msg877230)No opinion (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877737#msg877737)
gkriegLikely Town (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Very scummy (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Could be scum (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)Seems Towny (D2) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878146#msg878146)
LaLightWould love to exile (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877060#msg877060)          -Would not love to exile (D1) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877060#msg877060)          -

Well, that's a pretty clear consensus.

This seems like a very good reason for why you killed e last night instead of killing WCD. So you could make this argument today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 16, 2021, 06:05:16 pm
I didn't make an argument. How does e's death favour me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 16, 2021, 11:24:16 pm
I didn't make an argument. How does e's death favour me?

You said it's "a pretty clear consensus". I guess by argument, I meant implied conclusion, and the data from your argument was the fancy coloured table.

And e's death favours you because you could have killed someone else who wasn't as adamant about wanting me killed, and the table wouldn't look as conclusive today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 16, 2021, 11:41:08 pm
e would still be there, as Swowl's flip made him an IC. If it were up to me, I'd want the guy who's been Townreading me all game to still be around.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 17, 2021, 02:23:20 pm
Faust, Joth… you’re my towncore.  Mix and I both thought we’d win if we flipped Jimmm and math.

Where are y’all at? Do you suspect one another at all?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 17, 2021, 03:07:35 pm
Faust, Joth… you’re my towncore.  Mix and I both thought we’d win if we flipped Jimmm and math.

Where are y’all at? Do you suspect one another at all?
I would not consider joth today but if we don't find the right exile I'd probably get paranoid the next day and would try to investigate him more closely.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 17, 2021, 05:48:46 pm
Faust, Joth… you’re my towncore.  Mix and I both thought we’d win if we flipped Jimmm and math.

Where are y’all at? Do you suspect one another at all?

Same as faust mostly. The scenario where faust is scum at this point is an insane conspiracy theory that doesn’t really bare serious consideration. I’m mainly between Jim and mathdude. Mathdude is my gut instinct, but Jim fits the profile of scum who had played very well and is certainly possible.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 17, 2021, 06:15:14 pm
Alright, then. How are we feeling between math and Jimmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 17, 2021, 07:44:38 pm
joth, you seemed to have a pretty solid scumread on me Day 1, but then didn't really mention me again until Day 4 when you said you had a pretty strong Townread. What changed your read?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 17, 2021, 08:34:24 pm
joth, you seemed to have a pretty solid scumread on me Day 1, but then didn't really mention me again until Day 4 when you said you had a pretty strong Townread. What changed your read?

The short and unhelpful answer is “your play”. The longer answer will require re-reading to articulate.

The thought I just had about faust is that IIRC at least some of the people who were pushing the faust-is-scum narrative have now flipped scum. Which helps me feel better about his towniness.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 17, 2021, 08:36:14 pm
How were you feeling about me throughout Day 2 and 3? Was the change sudden or gradual?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 17, 2021, 08:37:25 pm
Also, how genuine was your Day 1 read, and how much was it a commitment to your "stick to a read" strategy?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 17, 2021, 08:58:12 pm
I’m confident that if I can find time to read these 80 pages of game the reality of the final scumster will become apparent. Unfortunately it’s a big if.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 17, 2021, 08:59:49 pm
Also, how genuine was your Day 1 read, and how much was it a commitment to your "stick to a read" strategy?

I wouldn’t have implemented the strategy without a read I felt solid about. But I was working with very little information.

I remember the first time I started to feel like “this guy’s town” was when you had a very earnest, authentic exchange with someone. I think it was faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 17, 2021, 09:00:17 pm
And then you kept sort of reinforcing that without giving me any reason to suspect you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 17, 2021, 09:26:55 pm
I remember the first time I started to feel like “this guy’s town” was when you had a very earnest, authentic exchange with someone. I think it was faust.

It would be great if you could find this, given that my exchange with faust was what started the scumread in the first place.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 17, 2021, 09:29:05 pm
Also, how genuine was your Day 1 read, and how much was it a commitment to your "stick to a read" strategy?

Same question regarding your Day 2 Swowl and gkrieg reads, and any others you might have used your strategy for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 18, 2021, 05:55:02 am
I'll get started on a math reread now. Trying to put quotes I find interesting here for easy access.

I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
First iguana interaction.

This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.
This starts a series of posts talking about meta stuff rather than the game itself.

-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post
Some more math/iguana interaction.

Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.
Okay now, this one seems quite telling!

I think I'm leaning town-ish for faust for now.
This worries me. Town!math seems to always scumread me.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).
This sort of stuff seems designed to highlight how iguana busses math.

That is D1 for you. I think I'll split these by Day, in order to not get too wallpost-y and allow me to split up my work on this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 18, 2021, 06:51:36 am
While I'm at it, here are the highlights from math's D2:

I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

Bold added for emphasis. I know my experience here is fairly limited. But I have noticed that through my games here, the dead have an above average probability of having correct reads, yet we almost never do anything about it.

I doubt we're lucky enough that LL picked 2 on D1. But between the two, I still feel MiX is town-ish, so to start the day, I'll sheep LL's faust suspicion for now.

Vote: faust
This is very strange, considering that he townread me at the end of D1 and had this to say about MiX:
Maybe I'm just finally getting back to my usual "I always find MiX scummy", or maybe I'm onto something.  At this point in my re-reads, I'd say it's MiX or Jimmmmm, but almost guaranteed not both.  If MiX is town, he's misreading Jimmmmm.  If MiX is scum, he went too far in his confidence that Jimmmmm is town.
So it seems like he got his reads mixed up here (no pun intended).

Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
Now this was a weird interaction at the time, and in the light of iguana's efforts at pushing math during D1 it seems like a further distancing move.

If someone wants to save me a little time and summarize iguana's posts through D1 and D2, that might save me a bit of time.  But I will go through them for sure, as I feel he's one person I've basically ignored this game so far - probably the most active person I've ignored (I also have almost no thoughts on e or gk, since almost nothing they have said has stood out to me, other than their basically naked votes of me D1).
This seems quite blatantly untrue, iguana was one of the people math interacted the most with during D1, how could he say he "ignored" iguana?

math then goes on to vote for iguana. Not going to quote that post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877711#msg877711) because it's super long.

For now, I'm leaving my vote on iguana, but I'll gladly switch to gkrieg today too.
Signaling support for a gkrieg exile.

I like your wall post and I think it deserves consideration, but I wish it weren't a case on the towniest person in the game.

I disagree that he's the towniest.  But like I said near the end of it... I went into it with a big gut scumread on iguana, then as I was getting through the posts, they weren't seeming near as scummy as I remembered.  But I'm leaving my vote there now until he responds.  I assume it will either assure me that he is scum, or it will give me a reason to move my vote.
And mathdude seems about ready to jump ship on iguana. It's also of note that mathdude ignores joth's vote for Swowl shortly before this.

Then mathdude spend a bunch of time collecting vote patterns that he never seems to do anything with.

Forget waiting.

Vote: gkrieg

He hasn't posted in nearly 48 hours. But his profile says last active on forum at 12:34pm today. He's watching, and just hoping the wagon sways away from him. He's afraid if he says something, it will further incriminate him.

I believe that's X-1.
I guess this vote is unsurprising.

gkrieg hasn't said anything to convince me he's town. But he does raise some valid points on faust. I don't know if both could be scum (I guess maybe... if he's godfather, and he figures it's better to bus a goon?) But likely at least 1 of them are.
mathdude is setting up a faust push for the next Day.

And that's prety much it. mathdude posts a couple of time in the EoD2, but nothing earth-shattering.

I can definitely see a narrative starting to emerge here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 18, 2021, 08:12:20 am
math D3. This should be fun!

Of the 4 that jumped to WCD EoD, only joth and e are still alive. I still don't get why it happened. And with the other 2 votes confirmed town now, I'm not sure what the play was. Is one of them scum? Both? Could they both be town? Why would 4 town make a last minute move like that? Sure, if they absolutely know someone is scum... but otherwise, they've left us with a useless EoD, which was effectively D1 and it doesn't help today. And because of that, I feel like the move was scum-driven.
Right from the start mathdude pushes an angle that is very convenient for scum!him.

I believe I'm next in line. So if 2 or 3 more people say go ahead and there's no resistance, I'll continue the claims. But if there is still hesitation, then we should probably wait.
This is seems very eager to please the crowd. The Masons already said they want the massclaim, are you looking for scum's input or what?

The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

Are you still on this set of beliefs for setup?  Is it possible that e is a cop and there are less T's than expected?  Might the scum have a strongman and they went after LL for a different reason?  Or is this what you would have us believe?
This is very telling I feel like. "Less Ts than expected", "scum has the Strongman" - all things scum knew at the time were true.

I haven't decided yet.  I'm leaning toward scum!e, just based on timing, the vague claim, and a few other little things.  But I'm not putting a vote there yet.
Pretty hedge.

I've said multiple times that I think it's almost too convenient that everything lines up for if e is lying scum. I think that's the answer, and since that will no longer put him at X-1, I will
Vote: e
This is at a point where iguana is at 3 votes, and the only person currently voting for e. It look pretty desperate if math is scum. Would he not have gone for the bus?

Alright, so this D3 from scum's perspective: There are not enough claims from town. I doubt they had the EE stuff figured out, so they'd have to think that there is lying town. A sensible option for that would be that e is lying and actually a full Cop with a not-useful N1 result -  his claim was a bit dodgy after all. Through that lens it makes more sense to be pushing e: You can just say "oh well, he was lying after all and that's what I picked up on". So it's a bit of a safer push. It's also more important to get rid of fullcop!e -  iguana was their RB, if he gets exiled then they basically have to use the NK on e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 18, 2021, 09:38:46 am
Let's finish it! math D4 here we come.

My list... chum to scum

WCD - obvious
joth - nothing specific, but generally getting town vibes
e - I really want to believe the cop claim
Jim - mostly null... nothing has stood out from him since D1
Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda
This has Swowl... not quite as his first choice going into D4.

Swowl - when he's here, he posts thoughtful stuff, but mostly seems to not be around or contribute much (1 week, for 1 game day... okay. But 3 and counting could be hiding)
this is what I mean about scum to chum lists by the way. It's D3 with a scum flip and mathdude doesn't have anything better on Swowl than "he's lurking". That's not going to help us.

Lurking through 3 full game days?  That's not a fallback, or lame read.  That's a scumtell.  Not sure if it's one for Swowl, but I know some of my past few games, I've seen at least 1, and sometimes 2 of the scum post just enough to not get prodded, and just slide through most of the game that way.  I feel Swowl's doing that here.  When he does post after an absence, there were a few too many "catching up" or "just checking in, but still gone for a bit" posts for me to believe they're genuine.
Maybe at this point I have a lot of bias, but this seems the kind of read that results from overreacting to your partner doing something you perceive as scummy because you already know they're scum.

But I don't agree with your conclusion... because e could be scum.  If he fake-claimed guilty on partner (which I know people say is unlikely), then you all know it's actually TTTME, and there's still a possibility for the final letter to be E (another 1-shot doctor, or a real 1-shot cop), C (a real 1-shot cop), D (full doctor), or even B (roleblocker), or another T (VT).  I think it's even possible e is scum and you (faust) are town and were just mistaken, while he, iguana, and their other partner are glad you jumped in hard on e so they didn't have to get as involved in the discussion.
This is again pretty incriminating. From a town POV, there's no use speculating about more PRs; we had a massclaim. But scum still thinks there's some lying town out there because the letter don't match up. This theory would imply that they didn't figure out the EE stuff at Night.

So 1-shot cop doesn't make sense, based on how you presented results yesterday.  Full cop makes very little sense.  Scum makes more sense.  Kill a partner early, get town-cred for the rest of the game, but it just didn't work out the way you were hoping.
I'm saying if e is actually town, I'd find it more believable if he's actually a full cop who lied to protect himself, than that he's telling the truth.
This is further proof of that, believing that e could be a full Cop somehow.

Then math and Swowl talk about the EE thing - it seems likely that they just now realized the "weird" reading. math also continues to post voting pattern that he never actually does any analysis on.

Let's move on. Faust is right that we're getting nowhere by holding here. We're either right or we're wrong, and we won't know until a flip.

Vote: Swowl
X-1, I believe
Then he jumps on Swowl. The dude has been a dead man walking for a while at that point.

So all in all... math is incredibly scummy. I came into this thinking Jimmmmm was the more likely scum, now I've changed my mind. I will still reread Jimmmmm of course, who know maybe he was even more scummy.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 18, 2021, 10:49:25 am
faust, everything you're posting looks very scummy if you look at it with the math-is-likely-scum angle.  But if you look at it with the math-is-town angle, you see the truth - I have no useful reads, I have no idea what's going on, and I'm fairly easily swayed by logical arguments (or conspiracy theories, like yours when you thought e's cop claim was scum claiming scum result on his partner).

I have been around these forums for over 6 months now, but this is the first game I've actually gone deep in the game as town.  The only other endgame I made was BM-dwarf mafia where we (scum) won a perfect game, with all of us still alive at the end.  That game was fake reads, especially getting careless at the end, but things were just set up so much in our favour with the neighbourhoods.  Here, I'm actually trying to figure stuff out.  I don't have strong opinions, because I don't know most of you well enough.  I've posted vote counts because that's what I can look at and provide as useful information, even though I can't pull much out of it myself - I don't know what kind of partnering, buddying, or bussing tends to happen in these games.  But I'm trying.

I have no reason to believe joth is the final scum at this point (if he is, well played to stay under the radar and let attention stay on others.... he deserves the win).  Most of you feel it's between me and Jim.  I feel it's between faust and Jim.  I think it's more likely faust.  But the fact that we have 2 chances, I'd be willing to vote Jim out tonight, and try to show you again that it's not me tomorrow.

Reread the quoted posts that faust has provided with a town-math perspective.  D1 and start of D2 relating to iguana... there was enough attention elsewhere, I wasn't trying to bring up another potential target but was trying to consolidate votes, which is more useful at the start.  I fully intended to look more into iguana later... but I had played more games with the rest of you and wanted to see 1 more day out of him.  He was pushing me, so of course I can't fully ignore him, even though I was intended to ignore him enough to look back at him later.

That's when we get into D2 and my "big case" on iguana... my gut reads on him kept ringing scum bells as I read day-to-day up to this point.  To use the words of others already in this game, I expected my reread of iguana would "break the game wide open".  I went through all his posts, and still posted my "big case", but admitted by the end of it that it didn't provide the incriminating evidence that my (likely biased because I was being targeted by him) opinion I thought it would - instead, most of what he had posted made sense.  So I started actually believing him.

Then when e brings a scum result, it felt like he/scum was trying to rope me back into the "iguana is scum" opinions, to misexile him and get close to lylo... and like I've said repeatedly, the way e claimed just didn't make any sense as a 1-shot cop.  He hedged, hinted, and looked for support without a claim (which could make sense as a full cop, hoping to get another result the next night), then he finally claimed, but didn't reveal his true role at first.  That just screamed scum to me.  So I pushed for it.  If I was really scum, would I that obviously "protect my partner"?  If I know iguana is dying that night or at "best" the next night, why would I put that partner-defense out there?  I did it because that's what I truly believed, because I didn't know.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 18, 2021, 03:18:59 pm
Faust's math case has me pretty sold.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 18, 2021, 07:08:56 pm
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 18, 2021, 07:13:59 pm
Like just look at Jimmmmm's recent handful of posts. He's basically finding out which of people's reads on him are genuine and which are based on strategy. He knows if you exile me today, he'll be around tomorrow and he's trying to figure out which 2 of you to keep, where at least one will vote with him against the other.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 18, 2021, 07:29:03 pm
joth has already stated that "The scenario where faust is scum at this point is an insane conspiracy theory that doesn’t really bare serious consideration."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 18, 2021, 07:32:46 pm
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.

Like just look at Jimmmmm's recent handful of posts. He's basically finding out which of people's reads on him are genuine and which are based on strategy. He knows if you exile me today, he'll be around tomorrow and he's trying to figure out which 2 of you to keep, where at least one will vote with him against the other.

Wait, one of these says you're not confident I'm scum, and the other says I am.

"I'm not confident you'll win" - you're not confident who will win?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 18, 2021, 09:45:38 pm
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.

I’m not following you here. You think faust is the last scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 12:44:29 am
Alright then.

Vote: math

Maybe I'll still do that Jimmmmm reread. It doesn't quite seem necessary though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 01:15:03 am
I doubt they had the EE stuff figured out, so they'd have to think that there is lying town.

Swowl had the same EE interpretation as Dylan, and was just assuming it was true. So Swowl at least didn't think there was lying Town. I'm inclined to think it wasn't discussed in the QT, so who knows what other scum thought.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 01:16:39 am
Although when I saw the Swowl flip I thought maybe e was a full Cop. Which must be part of why they killed him instead of Didds.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 01:35:43 am
math, as far as I can find, these are the only reasons you've given for scumreading faust:

faust - start of D3 was just way too much... seems like some hidden agenda

I skimmed through things again at night, and I still have no idea. Absent of any further info today, I currently think it's faust - the shenanigans D3 with e's claim swung my opinion then, but I'm looking at his posts now in light of Swowl's (and iguana's) flips, and they sure say "I'm protecting my partner" first for iguana, then "bus for the win" for Swowl.

In the face of his being almost universally Townread, this is not going to sway anyone, particularly with the admission that you "still have no idea". Are you planning on making a more extensive case on him (or on me for that matter)?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 02:48:14 am
Although when I saw the Swowl flip I thought maybe e was a full Cop. Which must be part of why they killed him instead of Didds.
IDK. I mean e didn't share any more results, that's a pretty clear indication that he wasn't a full Cop. After Swowl died he was every bit as much IC as Didds, so which of those they killed didn't matter apart from WIFOMing and killing the more dangerous one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 03:10:13 am
Well true. His Night 1 result could have been a dead Townie or Roleblocked, but we would have gotten something from Night 3.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 03:35:34 am
I doubt they had the EE stuff figured out, so they'd have to think that there is lying town.

Swowl had the same EE interpretation as Dylan, and was just assuming it was true. So Swowl at least didn't think there was lying Town. I'm inclined to think it wasn't discussed in the QT, so who knows what other scum thought.
I don't think he did, going by this:
this is incorrect.. EE is 2x of 1 shot doc OR 1shot cop x2
He seemed to think it's 2 of either 1-shot Doc or 1-shot Cop, but not that it could be just a single 1-shot Doc.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 03:37:13 am
He corrected that in the next post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 03:39:46 am
Ah, true.

The thing is that I find it hard to believe they wouldn't discuss the setup at Night after claims went weirdly. It's possible that the whole thing was staged I suppose.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 03:44:56 am
Yeah. The whole thing is pretty weird.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 07:35:16 am
joth has already stated that "The scenario where faust is scum at this point is an insane conspiracy theory that doesn’t really bare serious consideration."

Joth believes this (or at least did... hopefully still doesn't). I don't believe it. You can choose whether you do or not.

Conspiracy theory, maybe. Not worth serious consideration... I disagree. This game is made for moves like that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 07:38:54 am
I was responding to your assertion that I was trying to figure out which of joth and faust I could get to vote for the other.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 07:53:06 am
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.

Like just look at Jimmmmm's recent handful of posts. He's basically finding out which of people's reads on him are genuine and which are based on strategy. He knows if you exile me today, he'll be around tomorrow and he's trying to figure out which 2 of you to keep, where at least one will vote with him against the other.

Wait, one of these says you're not confident I'm scum, and the other says I am.

"I'm not confident you'll win" - you're not confident who will win?

I'm absolutely not confident it's you. It could be you or faust.

If you're scum, you're likely dead tomorrow since it sounds like any 2 of faust, joth, and WCD wil vote for you. But I've already seen in your posts today that you're subtly trying to figure out your next angle... which one of them will consider someone other than you tomorrow.

The worse part is if you're town. If they vote me out today, they're already locked on you tomorrow. (I'm in the same boat if we exile you today and you aren't scum... but at least I'm trying to put some info out there to make the "town core" reread and reconsider tonight).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 07:58:35 am
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.

I’m not following you here. You think faust is the last scum?

I'm open to that possibility if Jimmmmm flips town today. I was leaning more to faust at the start of today, but with Jimmmmm's posts today, i think I'll switch my order of the two.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 08:00:01 am
Getting to work now... I have a few more thoughts to post, but they have to wait for lunch.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 08:14:52 am
I'm absolutely not confident it's you. It could be you or faust.
Whatever happened to this:
But if it ends up being Jim or joth, it won't really surprise me.
(emphasis mine)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 08:17:04 am
Getting to work now... I have a few more thoughts to post, but they have to wait for lunch.
The one thing I am sad about with the "exile" wording is that we can no longer make lunch jokes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 09:07:57 am
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.

Like just look at Jimmmmm's recent handful of posts. He's basically finding out which of people's reads on him are genuine and which are based on strategy. He knows if you exile me today, he'll be around tomorrow and he's trying to figure out which 2 of you to keep, where at least one will vote with him against the other.

Wait, one of these says you're not confident I'm scum, and the other says I am.

"I'm not confident you'll win" - you're not confident who will win?

I'm absolutely not confident it's you. It could be you or faust.

I didn't say you said you were confident it was me. Your second post seems to follow on from your first one, but it instead contradicts it.

Also, to be clear, "I'm not confident you'll win" appears to be a scumslip.


Quote
If you're scum, you're likely dead tomorrow since it sounds like any 2 of faust, joth, and WCD wil vote for you. But I've already seen in your posts today that you're subtly trying to figure out your next angle... which one of them will consider someone other than you tomorrow.

In what world does scum me think that I can convince joth to vote for faust? If figuring out my next angle was my goal, this pretty much answers that:

Ok faust has me convinced.

So with faust and e in my towncore...

The scenario where faust is scum at this point is an insane conspiracy theory that doesn’t really bare serious consideration.

Faust's math case has me pretty sold.

I would not consider joth today but if we don't find the right exile I'd probably get paranoid the next day and would try to investigate him more closely.



Quote
The worse part is if you're town. If they vote me out today, they're already locked on you tomorrow. (I'm in the same boat if we exile you today and you aren't scum... but at least I'm trying to put some info out there to make the "town core" reread and reconsider tonight).

I'm aware of the situation if you flip Town. That's why I'm trying to figure joth out. His Day 1 read has potentially a lot to do with his Day 2 read, and very little if anything to do with his Day 6 one.

It's also why I asked if you have any reason to consider faust scum beyond "his early Day 3 was weird".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2021, 10:37:41 am
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 19, 2021, 10:40:29 am
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 19, 2021, 10:44:20 am
I mean if we do math today and he flips town, I'm not going to go into the final day and immediately vote for Jim. I will do my due diligence and really consider faust. You have my promise on that.


I certainly don't underestimate faust's skill.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2021, 03:07:35 pm
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.

Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2021, 03:09:54 pm
^^ It's okay of you don't wanna, I just think its more balanced to compare them since that is where you were when you started the math reread project.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 05:32:00 pm
Although when I saw the Swowl flip I thought maybe e was a full Cop. Which must be part of why they killed him instead of Didds.

Scum-slip?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 05:45:03 pm
I'm absolutely not confident it's you. It could be you or faust.
Whatever happened to this:
But if it ends up being Jim or joth, it won't really surprise me.
(emphasis mine)

Well, it's one of 3 of you, and at the time of writing that, I was pretty sure it was faust, but wasn't confident of anything so stated I wouldn't be surprised if it was either of the others. I believe joth has been fairly universally town-read, and a few others feel it's between me and Jimmmmm... combine that with my main skum read at the time, and I narrowed my sights to Jimmmmm and faust

Then more recently based on today's posts, I've now put my top scum read as Jimmmmm, ahead of faust. Is that influenced by the fact that I likely won't swing 2 more votes to faust? Maybe a bit. But I know it's not me. So Jimmmmm is still a better chance of finding scum... plus, today he just looks like he's setting up for who to kill tonight.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 05:53:40 pm
Re: Jimmmmm's comments about sometimes I'm "not sure" and other times I post as if I'm sure it's him...

I'm not sure. Any post which seems to have confidence or 1-target tunneling should be prefaced with:
"If you are the skum, here's the narrative I see that others should also consider"

But I've been mobile posting almost this whole game day. So I figure an argument about why Jimmmmm is likely scum shouldn't need the full preamble.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 06:56:19 pm
Although when I saw the Swowl flip I thought maybe e was a full Cop. Which must be part of why they killed him instead of Didds.

Scum-slip?

I don't understand.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 06:57:02 pm
Is there anything I can address for you Didds?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 06:57:59 pm
plus, today he just looks like he's setting up for who to kill tonight.

This is madness. Didds will be killed Tonight.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 07:00:39 pm
Re: Jimmmmm's comments about sometimes I'm "not sure" and other times I post as if I'm sure it's him...

I'm not sure. Any post which seems to have confidence or 1-target tunneling should be prefaced with:
"If you are the skum, here's the narrative I see that others should also consider"

But I've been mobile posting almost this whole game day. So I figure an argument about why Jimmmmm is likely scum shouldn't need the full preamble.

It's not about being sure or unsure. The 2 posts I quoted read like this "I'm not confident Jim is scum. Like, just look at how scummy he is."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 10:57:09 pm
plus, today he just looks like he's setting up for who to kill tonight.

This is madness. Didds will be killed Tonight.

Of course she will. If you get me exiled tonight (at this point, votes from you, faust, and possibly joth seem most likely), you wouldn't want her still around tomorrow to vote for you again tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 10:59:21 pm
Are you seriously arguing that scum might consider not killing the IC?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 19, 2021, 11:20:13 pm
I'm not arguing anything. I'm taking nothing as a given until it happens. I expected Didds to die first, not MiX (though that was really a toss-up). Then I expected Didds to die before e, and was surprised there, though I guess Swowl flipping full strongman and my push that e could have been full cop probably influenced that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 19, 2021, 11:32:21 pm
I mean, you're all over the place.

today he just looks like he's setting up for who to kill tonight.

This is an argument.


Didds will be killed Tonight.

Of course she will. If you get me exiled tonight (at this point, votes from you, faust, and possibly joth seem most likely), you wouldn't want her still around tomorrow to vote for you again tomorrow.

This is also an argument, and completely contradicts your previous argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 20, 2021, 12:42:17 am
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.

Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
No, Im sufficiently confident that math is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 20, 2021, 01:14:44 am
Vote Count 5.1

mathdude (1): faust
Jimmmmm (1): mathdude
Not Voting (3): jotheonah, WestCoastDidds, Jimmmmm

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to exile. Day 5 will end Friday, October 22, 2021, at 4:00 pm forum time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 20, 2021, 03:57:49 am
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.

Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
No, Im sufficiently confident that math is scum.
Plus it's kind of hard to stay motivated when the IC completely ignores what you're saying.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 08:31:13 am
I think finding someone who is pushing you scummy is a very towny reaction, so I think math suspecting faust makes sense. Jimmm on the other hand is cozying up to faust in a way that makes me find him scummy.

I think my preference is still to vote for Jimmm, but I need to think about it some more.
I'm going to need a signficant amount of convincing if you want me to vote Jimmmmm over math.

Will you reread Jimm in the same way that you reread math?
No, Im sufficiently confident that math is scum.
Plus it's kind of hard to stay motivated when the IC completely ignores what you're saying.

I’m not completely ignoring what you’re saying, and I apologize if I seem to be disengaged with you. When I read your math reread synopsis, it seemed to me that it mostly boiled down to the scummmiest thing he has done is continue to suspect you and/or lack a concrete opinion. Joth followed this up with an unhelpful “yep, seems about right”

And at the end of it all, you concluded with

So all in all... math is incredibly scummy. I came into this thinking Jimmmmm was the more likely scum, now I've changed my mind. I will still reread Jimmmmm of course, who know maybe he was even more scummy.

So, I think it’s a fair question to ask if your plans had changed.

I haven’t had time to do a reread of Jimmmm so my feeling about him at the moment is based on how he has interacted with folks this games, lots of questions, few conclusions, and how low key he’s been in response to pressure. It’s very pro. I’m all thinking about the LL kill N1 which seems like a pro move. Finally, when I was scum with math in the dwarf game, he was all about bussing and being suspicious of his buddies, and I’m not sure he’s done that here. But this is all thoughts and feels, which isn’t much to base a case on.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 08:33:33 am
Is there anything I can address for you Didds?

Not yet! I’m going to try to gather my thoughts during my office hours. It’s the time in the semester when students have not much interest in all in actually seeing the faculty, so I think I’ll have an hour or two to myself. :)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 20, 2021, 09:40:35 am
I’m not completely ignoring what you’re saying, and I apologize if I seem to be disengaged with you. When I read your math reread synopsis, it seemed to me that it mostly boiled down to the scummmiest thing he has done is continue to suspect you and/or lack a concrete opinion. Joth followed this up with an unhelpful “yep, seems about right”
I guess this is due to it being a reread rather than a proper case, but these are definitely not the things I wanted people to take away from it. But still I don't really know where it is coming from. I barely even mentioned math suspecting me, and in fact that suspicion was a major factor in why I didn't find him that scummy before starting the reread.

I would ask you to please look at the interactions math had with iguana on D1/D2, and then look at the actual scummiest thing he's done, revealing that he has knowledge only scum could have:
The other thing is the LaLight kill N1. It has "trying to avoid the Doctor target" written all over it. However... that would only be a concern if scum doesn't have a full Strongman. That means that there are at most three non-T letters in the setup. And we already have

E - EFHW
M - MiX/Didds
E/C - Swowl

There isn't room for another Cop.

Are you still on this set of beliefs for setup?  Is it possible that e is a cop and there are less T's than expected?  Might the scum have a strongman and they went after LL for a different reason?  Or is this what you would have us believe?
This is very telling I feel like. "Less Ts than expected", "scum has the Strongman" - all things scum knew at the time were true.

And at the end of it all, you concluded with

So all in all... math is incredibly scummy. I came into this thinking Jimmmmm was the more likely scum, now I've changed my mind. I will still reread Jimmmmm of course, who know maybe he was even more scummy.

So, I think it’s a fair question to ask if your plans had changed.
It not unfair, but I thought that my vote for math came with the implication that my mind was made up. This post that mathdude made is a major scumslip in my eyes:
That concerns me. Because honestly, if you guys just exile Jimmmmm tomorrow based on MiX and WCD's discussion, I'm not confident you'll win - the exiles needs to be Jimmmmm and faust.
Using "you" instead of "we" when referring to town, planning two exiles ahead - that is scum stuff. Town should think that there is a decent chance to get a win today, scum can only win with 2 misexiles.

I haven’t had time to do a reread of Jimmmm so my feeling about him at the moment is based on how he has interacted with folks this games, lots of questions, few conclusions, and how low key he’s been in response to pressure. It’s very pro. I’m all thinking about the LL kill N1 which seems like a pro move. Finally, when I was scum with math in the dwarf game, he was all about bussing and being suspicious of his buddies, and I’m not sure he’s done that here. But this is all thoughts and feels, which isn’t much to base a case on.
See that sort of stuff is why I feel like you didn't read my posts properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that math has bussed both iguana and Swowl.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 20, 2021, 11:37:02 am
I'm ready to vote, but I wouldn't want to enable a quickhammer before our IC has had a chance to say her fill (she is definitely dying tonight, it would be absolute insanity for scum to kill anyone else).

Didds, as soon as you give the go ahead I'll vote for math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 02:14:56 pm
See that sort of stuff is why I feel like you didn't read my posts properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that math has bussed both iguana and Swowl.

I see him voting for them, but not skewering them like he did when he was actively trying to create distance.

At the end of day, it really doesn't matter where I am at. If faust and Joth thinks its mathdude, then that is what will happen. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 20, 2021, 02:44:05 pm
See that sort of stuff is why I feel like you didn't read my posts properly. Otherwise you would have noticed that math has bussed both iguana and Swowl.

I see him voting for them, but not skewering them like he did when he was actively trying to create distance.

At the end of day, it really doesn't matter where I am at. If faust and Joth thinks its mathdude, then that is what will happen.

Idk. I'm extremely persuadable apparently.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 02:57:30 pm
faust's mind is made up, though, and he has more concrete reasons than I do. I haven't had a minute of actual free time to read today, so that will have to wait. But I also get not wanting to wait.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 03:40:02 pm
Okay, I am starting my Jim reread now. Give me an hour or so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 04:09:57 pm
D1, friendly Jimmm

Votes for EFHW after I make a case for her

Some exchanges with faust along these lines:
I am leading us down?

Yep. You have the most posts and zero helpful content. The only conclusion one can come to trying to analyse your game is "Why is he refusing to contribute?" So we either have to go ahead and give you that free pass, or argue with you about how anti-Town you're being.

faust points out that Jimmm isn't moving day forward

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
Oh yeah, and now a policy vote! I'm sure that is going to move the game forward.

And this sums up their interaction nicely
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?
I was about to write a snarky response, but it's no use escalating this. I do not deny that there are things that I refuse to talk about. I am sure that there are things that you refuse to talk about, too, otherwise you would tell me your role now. The only difference is where we draw the line. i am willing to discuss some things when I feel it is beneficial to discuss them. Someone I think is scum wanting to know is not grounds for me to change my mind though.

This is interesting to me and makes Jimmm feel more town
You can respond if you want.  But I was more interested in other people's opinions of your meta.  As has already been mentioned this thread (regarding faust or joth, I forget which)... when someone knows their own meta well enough to comment on it, it does seem to make it NAI.  But if you can tell me which of those options (or another option) it is, that can help, I guess.

Yeah I agree with that sentiment, but I'll weigh in.

I don't think level of effort is particularly alignment-indicative for me. I might be slightly less likely to be lurky as scum overall, because I feel a responsibility to my teammate/s. But I've definitely had games both ways in which I've put in a lot of effort. The problem is that when I fall behind I have a really hard time catching up.

I think as scum under pressure my goal is generally to ignore the pressure and try to emulate my Town self by doing productive-looking re-reads etc. I don't recall ever OMGUSing or going hard after someone because they were going hard after me as scum.

If I was scum in this game, I would feel the same about faust's strategy but I highly doubt I would have argued with him anywhere near as much as I have.

because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

Nothing about my game has been careful. I am definitely capable of playing the careful scum game. Picking a fight with faust of all people is not the way to do that.

Low key suggests that if we are going to exile a lurker, that it should be e.

He votes for math going into the deadline

Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.

Conclusons... Jimmm was more towny and engaged than I had remembered. In his tussle with faust, I thought fuast looked scummier. His points about not taking on faust if he is scum are well taken.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 04:10:22 pm
color fail! Sorry!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 04:26:21 pm
Day 2!

I'm inclined to think mathdude is Town. He had a very similar reaction to joth as I did, and I'm not sure that it's a reaction that someone who knew joth's alignment would have.

I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.

it's either really Towny or really scummy, and I can't put my finger on which.

(Even though my post is immediately after mathdude's,  I hadn't actually read his post properly until after the Day was over.)

A funny little exchange with Swowl
So Swowl, you're basing your vote on joth, who you fairly recently said you didn't think was scum, on the assumption that the wagons weren't Town v Town and the unconfirmed alignments of those on the wagons?

You would make a great lawyer.
Yes, that is what I am saying. It was also day 1, so there were no confirmed alignments.

Hhmm...

And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

We're talking the difference between probable and possible. Discussions so far today have been focused on what's stated as "probable". It would be tough to crunch numbers on such a situation, since it's not perfectly random, independent events. We're talking interactions, teammates, time zones and online times, etc.

Probable is helpful D1, especially toward end of day. And if we don't sort stuff out through 5 or 6 days in D2, maybe we look back at "probable" EoD2 as well. But tunneling on it for 7 days is not helpful.

Let's look at what else is possible. Open up the conversation. I'll leave my vote for now - because it's possible he's scum. I don't know yet how probable, but that will likely sort itself out over the next couple days.

I'm not talking about possible vs probable. Anything that I don't know to be impossible is possible. "Certain" may have been the wrong word - I meant "consider sufficiently probable". I'm not convinced that Swowl's theory is more probable than random, let alone sufficiently probable. And I also have to weigh it against the fact that I think mathdude and joth are each some amount more likely than average to be Town.

Then he posts the super cool charts!  Does scum make a super cool chart? I don't know... its a lot of work.

This is a coherent case on Swowl
Unsurprisingly, I think joth makes some good points about Swowl, but I was like, "Does scum actually do that?" That is, come out as Swowl did Day 2, without acknowledgement of his prior post about joth.

I thought a bit more about the no-exile. Generally, Town wants to exile unless there's a reason not to. So how does scum feel about it if the main wagons are TvT? Would they rather make sure one of them goes through, or are they happier with the no-exile? With a no-exile, they get a free kill (offset by any Cops Town might have), but risk coming out worse if Day 2 results in a successful exile. But if those same TvT wagons come up again, they're laughing.

Then I realised, this is exactly what Swowl was pushing. And increasing their activity by advocating a theory-based exile makes sense for a lurky scum who knows they need to start contributing more but isn't sure what reads they can justify.

I'm not suggesting scum purposefully allowed a no-exile; I don't see the evidence for that. But if it was TvT, which I'm inclined to think is likely, scum definitely want people to assume it wasn't.

Vote: Swowl

Later votes gkrieg to consolidate

Vote Count 2.Final

jotheonah (1): Swowl
gkrieg13 (6): faust, iguanaiguana, Jimmmmm, mathdude, MiX, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): 2.71828....., EFHW, gkrieg13, jotheonah

Not Voting (0):

Conclusions: that Swowl case was prescient
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 04:33:31 pm
Day 3 starts with him having a ton of questions for me

Continues pushing swowl. Also scummy: faust and iguana

Never gets around to voting

Vote Count 3.Final

iguanaiguana (5): 2.71828....., Swowl, faust, jotheonah, iguanaiguana
2.71828..... (1): mathdude
Not Voting (3): MiX, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds

Conclusions: none
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 05:01:21 pm
Day 4

Quick rundown of remaining candidates:

Swowl/faust - My biggest suspects. Will take some further re-reading to determine whether faust is likely to bus his partner Swowl in the way he did Yesterday.

math/joth - I've been of the belief that each of these is Town, but PoE may call for me to rethink that.

e - Most likely Town.

Hmmm...
Okay I have to say, the faust/joth discussion is doing a pretty good job of convincing me that it's Swowl/math. It's hard to shake the nagging "It can't be that easy" feeling, but that definitely seems to be the Occam's razor solution.

#1955 is a long post about iguana/math bussing each other

#1986 long post about how does not see Swowl and iguna as partners

Still very suspicious of faust

Vote Count 4.Final

Swowl (4): faust, 2.71828....., mathdude, WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (3): Swowl, Jimmmmm, jotheonah


That was fast. No conclusions, really. But I am not finding him as scummy as I had remembered.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2021, 05:04:14 pm
okay, I made it pretty far, but now I have to go to a meeting.

I'll finish in the morning. I'll say now that I am finding Jimmm less scummy than I had anticipated. I feel a lot better about a mathdude vote, but I want to go back and see what MiX said, too, in the QT after his reread and I'll report back on that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 05:40:20 pm
I know it doesn't matter much at this point, since it seems enough of you have made up your minds. But I do know the setup isn't EECMTT. that's why I've been focused on the setup the whole time since claims, and why I hounded e so much.

It's ECMMMT. I tried to save Didds the night MiX died since EFHW hadn't used the 1-shot save yet. In hindsight, I should have waited another night. But with me evading exile twice, I figured scum would leave MiX alive to push for exiling me the next day.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 05:44:16 pm
Wait, are you claiming UB?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 05:49:54 pm
I guess you are. There's no way Town lies here:

There have been a few people say to continue. So let's continue the claims.

I'm VT. That's why near EoD2 I said it would be better to exile me than to end up with another no exile day... there were enough opinions about me that hopefully it would have helped solve some things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 05:51:44 pm
Wait, are you claiming UB?

I was VT after the save was used, so there was no need to claim it at that point. It hid the fact that there might have been another possible PR during claims. And the truth would have been revealed upon my death anyway, or I could reveal at an opportune time... like if I was about to be exiled at lylo. I know it's not quite lylo today, but now that I'm this far in, I'd like to be in until the end, so I'm revealing the truth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 05:54:50 pm
If it was the reason you hounded e, wouldn't you have thought everyone else needed that information too? That's literally the point of a massclaim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 05:56:03 pm
Yeah nah there's no Town reason for this. Intent to vote mathdude.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 06:06:42 pm
I tried to save Didds the night MiX died since EFHW hadn't used the 1-shot save yet.

I was VT after the save was used, so there was no need to claim it at that point.

You claimed VT Day 3, while MiX was still alive.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 06:11:03 pm
Yeah nah there's no Town reason for this. Intent to vote mathdude.

Who else would you have voted for anyway? Really.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 06:13:15 pm
Haha true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 06:19:48 pm
I tried to save Didds the night MiX died since EFHW hadn't used the 1-shot save yet.

I was VT after the save was used, so there was no need to claim it at that point.

You claimed VT Day 3, while MiX was still alive.

Sorry, just typing fast on phone and didn't go back to look at which day was which. It's been so long that I'm losing track of the early days in the game, and it's tough to go look it all up on mobile.
I meant that I would be as good as VT. And in all my times ever playing as doctor (real life, other online places), I don't think I've ever successfully saved someone. I'm a pretty useless doctor, and a 1-shot is even worse.

When I said no point in claiming it "at that point", I meant even after using the shot. I claimed VT to hide the info, as i said. Then i still didn't see a point in revealing the truth after i failed in the save.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 06:24:53 pm
Would you have claimed VT if you were had rolled 1-Shot Doctor and still had your shot?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 06:27:18 pm
I figured I would put the truth out there now, too see if it helps faust or joth see some of my posts in a slightly different light. If I'm exiled tonight, it's lylo tomorrow. If we can exile Jimmmmm today, it might be game over. So I'm still trying to help.

Also, regarding the "scumslip" (we/you), I was probably just thinking once I'm dead, it's now "you" (assuming the person I was replying to was town) instead of "we" since I'm no longer around in the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 20, 2021, 06:42:41 pm
Didds, I take your point about reaching few conclusions. In general I'm someone who hates risking being wrong - it's often difficult for me to come to opinions about things that I can't have a relative degree of certainly about. Mafia to me is a game of probabilities; although sometimes you have certainty in the form of Night results, most often you exile whoever is the most likely to flip scum. Apparent certainty has always been a scumtell to me. Which is why, as I indicated early Day 1, I don't know what to do with the likes of faust and MiX confidently stating someone's alignment, particularly with little or no given reason. I'm never going to match that level of confidence, and I don't think it would be helpful for me to feign it, so I feel like I'm never going to be as persuasive as them. Which means it doesn't really feel like it matters if I come to conclusions or not. It also doesn't help that exiles generally happen while I'm asleep, which means I haven't really had the opportunity/responsibility of actually being there to help make the final decision.

As is evident from Day 1, faust's style of not answering questions clashes with my style of asking questions. Largely my distrust of faust stemmed from "You could be scum, and man do I not want you to win if you are." Which is not a good reason to actually exile someone. It was feeling like it was getting to the point of faust needing to be called to account for being wrong all the time, but then he started being right. At some point I thought maybe I should trust MiX's unfailing read, as someone who recently has played more than me, and is probably better at understanding peoples metas. After the Swowl flip, I was like, "Yeah, they're probably right", especially since you had tied the strengthening of your read to the Swowl flip.

I've been finding this game that the more closely I look at any individual, the more I think they're Town, which makes it hard to conclude that someone is scum. Day 3 my gut told me that iguana was hella Towny for the most part and e was null at best, but my head told me that the Cop claim was probably legit. faust's confidence in both directions muddied things for me further. Day 4 the general confidence on Swowl, particularly from faust, made me uncomfortable. I felt like if he flipped Town we were in real trouble, but no one seemed to care.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 20, 2021, 06:47:00 pm
Would you have claimed VT if you were had rolled 1-Shot Doctor and still had your shot?

I'm not totally sure, but I think so. No point in having a target on my back. Especially if there was another role that was a likely target for night kill (masons, cop, etc.) so no need to let them kill me first then the other. Give me a chance at a successful save.

But the swing from VT to 1-shot doc is less than from M to MMM. So I don't know for sure.

PPE 1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 20, 2021, 10:32:36 pm
this claim smacks of desperation.

it's not completely implausible that it's a town move but... yeah.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 12:40:31 am
Lol yeah. No way town doesn't claim UB because that casts serious doubt on the Mason claim. Yet at no point was mathdude implying that the Masons could be lying.

Can we exile and win now please?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 12:42:00 am
Vote: math

Probably wait for Didds to chime in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 08:57:33 am
Lol yeah. No way town doesn't claim UB because that casts serious doubt on the Mason claim. Yet at no point was mathdude implying that the Masons could be lying.

Can we exile and win now please?

Emphasis added.
I definitely implied it. I told MiX it would be so easy to call him scum if he wasn't a Mason, on D3 I think (I'll go look it up after posting this). And after we sorted out e vs iguana, I was going to bring it up again, especially if neither "mason" died... but MiX died that night which put my whole "masons are actually scum" theory to bed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 09:00:57 am
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.

Scumslip and also Jimmmmm is town.

Maybe we should just flip math...yesterday...sigh...

The more I read this game the less I want to play it.

I like how you keep hedging on where to go next. Calling out partners and teams. We don't even know which way to look until we sort out which of e and iguana is scum. So rather than help the undecided find the truth about e's claim, you keep focusing on things that are less relevant to today's vote.

If you weren't Mason, it'd be too easy to call you scum.

Here's the quote I mentioned.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 09:20:13 am
WTF?? So, mathdude, you skipped claiming in the mass claim because you still had a shot left? And you waited until now to tell us about it? Am I following that right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 09:31:18 am
Okay, bracketing the math claim for a minute, I went back and read the mason qt.

On D2, math had a pretty good case on iguana that was a big wall post at #932. Mix thought it was trying to set up a 1 v 1 with iguana and at the time he thought it was scummy because he thought iguana was town. In retrospect, MiX thought it meant that they weren’t partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 09:43:27 am
I wanna hammer so bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 09:57:38 am
WTF?? So, mathdude, you skipped claiming in the mass claim because you still had a shot left? And you waited until now to tell us about it? Am I following that right?

Yes. Call me a rookie to claims if you want. But yes.

That's why I had an interest in the interpretation of EE roll. That's why I dropped the statement about MiX, masons, scum D3. That's why I pushed e and thought he was lying.

I wasn't planning to share it at all... let my death reveal it. But at this point, I figured it would cause mass confusion tomorrow and distract from finding the real scum. So better to sort out the "why didn't he claim" while I'm alive and can respond.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 10:12:19 am
It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 10:14:22 am
Okay, here’s what I think. I don’t think Jimmm is scum. But I also don’t really think mathdude is either. I reread D5 since that is where I left off last night and Joth has been the most scummy today. So, that is shaking my sense of towncore. But I also think it is too late in the day to completely shift gears.

So, I’ll hammer math but if it’s not over y’all figure it out tonight, okay?

vote: math

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 10:14:33 am
It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
This wonderful statement is made 5 hours before mathdude's VT claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 10:16:29 am
I hope mathdude is scum because tomorrow is going to be a real challenge if he isn't!

Especially with that dagger in the back from my best friend WCD :P

But I'm pretty confident this is going to end well for us. And soon!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 10:16:59 am
Wait a minute. If math is town, I'm IC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 10:17:38 am
I wanna hammer so bad.

This seals it -- if I'm the last scum I should have just hammered here. Wait, I guess I wouldn't have won straight up. Nevermind, not IC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 10:17:47 am
townslip, sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 10:18:18 am
Oh man I hope Dylan's around. Gotta see this flip before I sleep.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 10:19:45 am
math are you scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 10:23:41 am
I hope mathdude is scum because tomorrow is going to be a real challenge if he isn't!

Especially with that dagger in the back from my best friend WCD :P

But I'm pretty confident this is going to end well for us. And soon!

Not a dagger, just a little ping! And I know I have a Joth shaped soft spot, so I’m trying to be vigilant. I did all of this work to read Jimmm and it didn’t turn out like I thought. But math’s strategy of lying about his role in the mass claim and then waiting until now is also kind of on-brand for him, could also totally be a Hail Mary. I’m in full on paranoia….and glad that I won’t have to figure it out
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 10:45:38 am
although, as a scum claim, what on earth was it meant to accomplish?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 10:55:11 am
He seemed to think it might save him, which seems odd regardless.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 11:21:34 am
He seemed to think it might save him, which seems odd regardless.
He wanted to provide an explanation for why he knew scum had a Strongman before Swowl flipped.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 3)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 11:46:33 am
It just doesn't make sense, trying to hide information and lie in his claim.
This wonderful statement is made 5 hours before mathdude's VT claim.

Yes, I believe I made a few similar statements this game. Draw attention to the fact that I (and other town) might lie to hide info from scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 11:51:41 am
Oh. I now see Didds has hammered. Too bad. I wish we had continued discussions until closer to the deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 11:59:23 am
so... you scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 12:08:44 pm
Okay, here’s what I think. I don’t think Jimmm is scum. But I also don’t really think mathdude is either. I reread D5 since that is where I left off last night and Joth has been the most scummy today. So, that is shaking my sense of towncore. But I also think it is too late in the day to completely shift gears.

So, I’ll hammer math but if it’s not over y’all figure it out tonight, okay?

vote: math

I was seriously considering starting today with a strong push against joth. But with him in your town-core, the "obvious" choice between me and Jimmmmm, and the fact that it would mean me changing my reads yet again, it just didn't seem like the right move.

Instead of trying to push for faust as scum (which no one but me wanted to believe), or even try to push Jimmmmm (which Didds started out doing an okay job of), I just tried to prove my ignorance all game and my towniness. I hoped Didds would swing someone over to Jimmmmm, but instead she swung over to vote me.

I was also fully intending to start the day claiming UB, but just didn't get around to it. So at the end, it was my hail-mary. As can be seen, I had been crumbing it so I could refer back when needed. It was just too little, too late. I wanted to claim it yesterday, but just couldn't until i knew e was 1-shot, which is why I had to sort out set-up interpretation (which was not really discussed in QT).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 12:11:53 pm
so... you scum?
And yes. Good game all. So close to getting into final 3.

Also, I probably would not have killed the IC tonight... whether we had exiled Jimmmmm or even if we had swung over to joth. I think Didds was the most likely to side with me out of anyone, so I would have just had to figure out who she would have been more likely to vote for tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 12:13:13 pm
Whew!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 12:14:08 pm
so... you scum?
And yes. Good game all. So close to getting into final 3.

Also, I probably would not have killed the IC tonight... whether we had exiled Jimmmmm or even if we had swung over to joth. I think Didds was the most likely to side with me out of anyone, so I would have just had to figure out who she would have been more likely to vote for tomorrow.

Yeah, but if you hadn’t killed me, I’d have known for sure it was you because I was the only one even close to your side.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 12:16:54 pm
When scum QT gets posted, you'll see we actually had RB on e the night he investigated iguana, since we suspected he had a PR (cop or vig). But we figured he'd be more likely to target faust or Didds, so switched to RB joth (again, suspected PR, assumed target of me or Swowl). What a different game it would have been if we left it on e!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 12:18:49 pm
I am kind of amazed at how often you’ve rolled scum math. Good job!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 12:20:37 pm
Faust, your super duper math reread paid off!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 12:34:17 pm
Jimmmm, the thing that convinced me most that you weren’t scum was your spreadsheet. So, your effort paid off!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 12:36:31 pm
Jimmmm, the thing that convinced me most that you weren’t scum was your spreadsheet. So, your effort paid off!!

I totally would have done something like that as scum.  But I guess maybe Jimmmmm wouldn't have?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 01:16:27 pm
Jimmmm, the thing that convinced me most that you weren’t scum was your spreadsheet. So, your effort paid off!!

I totally would have done something like that as scum.  But I guess maybe Jimmmmm wouldn't have?

No idea, although that’s probably how I can up my scum game. I don’t think about where people have voted or what they have said nearly as much as I do when I’m town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 02:00:24 pm
Now I want to see the speccy to see what kind of discussions happened in there, especially after iguana and then Swowl ended up dead.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 21, 2021, 02:49:33 pm
"After another failed attempt to sabotage the engines, Purple called one last emergency meeting. "We've got it figured out. At this point, it just has to be you Orange. You've been in the area of every found body, and when we asked you about what tasks you've completed, you've given completely different answers from meeting to meeting. GET HIM OUT OF HERE!"

mathdude has been exiled. They were an Imposter-aligned Godfather.

Game over. The Crewmates win!

Vote Count 5.Final

mathdude (3): faust, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds
Jimmmmm (1): mathdude
Not Voting (1): jotheonah

With 5 alive, it took 3 to exile.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 21, 2021, 02:51:31 pm
Imposter QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/CNPkgLaecnFw (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/CNPkgLaecnFw)
Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/DFZiWJbpHrNV (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/DFZiWJbpHrNV)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 21, 2021, 02:54:37 pm
I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 03:04:35 pm
Dylan, you did great!!  Thank you for hosting!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: 2.71828..... on October 21, 2021, 03:16:19 pm
Oh man, so glad I wasn't blocked.

Iguana's /m109 in the scum qt:
Quote
If we get copped, we get copped.

No one copped us tho good vibes all around.

I won't claim I copped Math if someone claims they copped me first. So yeah I guess claiming later is best for me.

That D3 was just so crazy, had a ton of fun with it though. Iguana was a great antagonist!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 03:17:10 pm
A very fun game and a fairly close one!

It's been a bit since I've won as town AND survived to the end.

This should probably be a lesson about faust, but idk what it is.

I will not underestimate iguana again.

Thanks for all your modding effort Dylan.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 03:31:19 pm
Scum played great. If there hadn't been a result, things would gone way differently.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 03:35:15 pm
It's been a bit since I've won as town AND survived to the end.
I feel you! I can't remember the last game this happened for me. Probably like one of those 9-player games with 2 scum and a perfect town win.

Feels even better to win knowing that the game was kind of stacked against you. Though in a weird way I also feel scum got a bit screwed over by the setup ambiguity.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 21, 2021, 03:36:49 pm
I would like to also read the Mason QT btw.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: MiX on October 21, 2021, 03:40:55 pm
It's been a bit since I've won as town AND survived to the end.
I feel you! I can't remember the last game this happened for me. Probably like one of those 9-player games with 2 scum and a perfect town win.

Feels even better to win knowing that the game was kind of stacked against you. Though in a weird way I also feel scum got a bit screwed over by the setup ambiguity.

I think it ended up being balanced. Less PRs helps scum regardless of what they do.

I would like to also read the Mason QT btw.

Sure (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/exXcLV86q4ByE)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 03:50:33 pm
I would like to also read the Mason QT btw.

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/exXcLV86q4ByE

Where in MiX declares that you are his ride or die.

PPE: MiX beat me to it!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on October 21, 2021, 04:03:31 pm
This game is great. I'm reading all of it again.

It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right

This aged very well. It's hard to overestimate e's impact on this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on October 21, 2021, 04:07:54 pm
This game is great. I'm reading all of it again.

It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right

This aged very well. It's hard to overestimate e's impact on this game.

Remember when we used to pick an MVP for every game?

I nominate e and faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 04:12:32 pm
^^ +1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Swowl on October 21, 2021, 04:19:34 pm
sheeeshhhhh

good game. Super swingy day 3 and obviously just meh - but props to town for getting it right 1-2-3 in a row.

thanks for the game Dylan!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 04:59:40 pm
sheeeshhhhh

good game. Super swingy day 3 and obviously just meh - but props to town for getting it right 1-2-3 in a row.

thanks for the game Dylan!

This completely slayed me:
"WCD - Need to re read to a PR extent. Should be noted there is like a 50% chance I do something out of character without knowing it and she picks up on it and just tunnels the absolute balls out of me."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 05:27:24 pm
Hooray! Good game everyone.

Props to faust. I can't argue with your results.

Dylan, this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879090#msg879090) should probably just have read something like "I interpret it as [A] or [C]." At the time I read it as confirmation that EE wasn't rolled. More importantly, it seems to be confirmation that the question wasn't asked in the scum QT. Which is a bit awkward because it feels like it wouldn't be right to make arguments based on that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 21, 2021, 05:36:36 pm
Welp, that sure went sideways for our team. Oh well, scum with Swowl and Math was still loads of fun.

As you can see in the scum QT, Swowl never intended to fakeclaim cop or do any kind of breadcrumb. It was my intention to fakeclaim an innocent result on Mathdude. I breadcrumbed it a few times when I was arguing with MiX about his changed read on Math.

But when we went into D3, there was a guilty result on me, and then faust made his argument that Swowl was IC for breadcrumbing a result on EFHW,  I thought we just need to roll with this. So by claiming VT, I was attempting to pass the PR claim over to Swowl. Of course Swowl was seeing (correctly) that there was no room for another 1-shot cop, and I was seeing it incorrectly that there was still room. So if I had known that, I probably would have went ahead and claimed 1-shot cop because I was in a 1v1 anyway.

I'm not salty at all though! I've got a a new quote for my siggy:

Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.

That line from 2.7 made the whole game worth it IMO : )
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: iguanaiguana on October 21, 2021, 05:38:48 pm

I will not underestimate iguana again.

Thanks for all your modding effort Dylan.

Please keep underestimating me. I really enjoyed being called the towniest player in the game ^^
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 06:37:38 pm
Jimmmm, the thing that convinced me most that you weren’t scum was your spreadsheet. So, your effort paid off!!

Not gonna lie, I was a bit disappointed when you didn't comment on the second one. A Townread is even better though! What about it was Towny? MiX thought it was scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 21, 2021, 06:43:53 pm
Jimmmm, the thing that convinced me most that you weren’t scum was your spreadsheet. So, your effort paid off!!

Not gonna lie, I was a bit disappointed when you didn't comment on the second one. A Townread is even better though! What about it was Towny? MiX thought it was scummy.

I only commented on the first one, but my admiration applied to both! It was clear to me that this is how you keep your notes and I don’t think you would share that level of detail. Also, it is actually helpful as opposed to a mammoth post filled with information that doesn’t actually help anyone draw conclusions. So, a combination of level of effort combined with quality of information.

I have no idea how MiX decides what is towny or not. He is an an enigma.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: MiX on October 21, 2021, 06:47:44 pm
I have no idea how MiX decides what is towny or not. He is an an enigma.

It had colors. The colors made math look bad. Mean colors designed to push math. Colors bad. Agenda was transparent, but colors tried to hide it. Had a singular post from each player, players had made more than 1 post.

Jokes aside, I think it should've said "lol math was scumread by everyone, maybe he's just scum?" or some conclusion with words. Making people get that conclusion by themselves makes it harder for them to look at the "data" (which is just one post that you chost seemingly arbitrarily) objectively.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 06:59:39 pm
I only commented on the first one, but my admiration applied to both! It was clear to me that this is how you keep your notes and I don’t think you would share that level of detail. Also, it is actually helpful as opposed to a mammoth post filled with information that doesn’t actually help anyone draw conclusions. So, a combination of level of effort combined with quality of information.

Well my notes are in the form of a Google Sheet with a page dedicated to each player. I actually made a note of every single player-made post in the game (up until near the end; I would have caught up if the game had continued), but posts which I didn't have any thoughts on just had the post number. Any time someone expressed a read I highlighted it in red or green, so it was easy to look back and find reads. I think it was very helpful, but ended up creating too much work for myself. At one point I said I was fatigued with the game, and that was largely why. I think I'll probably do similar again in future, but be a lot more choosy about which posts I make a note of.

I thought the second one was quite visually appealing, and may be worth putting together at some point towards the end of any game. I was a bit worried I'd accidentally misrepresent someone, and I nearly did.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 07:09:32 pm
Jokes aside, I think it should've said "lol math was scumread by everyone, maybe he's just scum?" or some conclusion with words. Making people get that conclusion by themselves makes it harder for them to look at the "data" (which is just one post that you chost seemingly arbitrarily) objectively.

I tried to be as formulaic as possible when choosing which post to use. It was either the most recent post in which they'd expressed a read, or the strongest-worded, most relevant etc post among the most recent group of posts within a reasonable space of time, so long as it wasn't later contradicted. I linked each post and pointed out the links so people could verify them to whatever extend they felt necessary.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 07:42:01 pm
I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 07:46:37 pm
Hooray! Good game everyone.

Props to faust. I can't argue with your results.

Dylan, this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879090#msg879090) should probably just have read something like "I interpret it as [A] or [C]." At the time I read it as confirmation that EE wasn't rolled. More importantly, it seems to be confirmation that the question wasn't asked in the scum QT. Which is a bit awkward because it feels like it wouldn't be right to make arguments based on that.

I sort of interpreted Dylan's answer the same way - that it hasn't been rolled EE this game. So because of that, I felt I had to kill e to confirm if he was full cop or if there was still a hidden role (because it still just looked like ECM). Had I killed WCD instead, I probably would have died sooner then, since everyone who would have been alive at that point seemed to want me dead.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 07:50:00 pm
I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.

Yeah, the benefit of having say extra Cop shots is an increased likelihood of getting a guilty result. The fact that we got one from our only shot means that we really weren't hurt by it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: mathdude on October 21, 2021, 07:51:30 pm
Oh, and I believe we did start asking the EE question in scum QT, and revealed that Swowl and I had different interpretations, but the response came late and Swowl and I were not online at the same time so didn't have a chance to coordinate anything.

So I went off script (there was no script!) by asking in game and playing it up with Swowl... thanks for playing along. With him likely to flip that day and the discussion backing up my potential future moves, I'm glad it also seemed to distance us because we "hadn't talked about it in scum QT"... too bad that wasn't enough to keep suspicion off me the next day.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 21, 2021, 07:54:24 pm
Yeah, to me the fact that the question seemingly hadn't been asked the the scum QT nullified the benefit you would have gotten from that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Swowl on October 21, 2021, 11:06:06 pm
sheeeshhhhh

good game. Super swingy day 3 and obviously just meh - but props to town for getting it right 1-2-3 in a row.

thanks for the game Dylan!

This completely slayed me:
"WCD - Need to re read to a PR extent. Should be noted there is like a 50% chance I do something out of character without knowing it and she picks up on it and just tunnels the absolute balls out of me."

hahaha
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Swowl on October 21, 2021, 11:10:31 pm
Welp, that sure went sideways for our team. Oh well, scum with Swowl and Math was still loads of fun.

As you can see in the scum QT, Swowl never intended to fakeclaim cop or do any kind of breadcrumb. It was my intention to fakeclaim an innocent result on Mathdude. I breadcrumbed it a few times when I was arguing with MiX about his changed read on Math.

But when we went into D3, there was a guilty result on me, and then faust made his argument that Swowl was IC for breadcrumbing a result on EFHW,  I thought we just need to roll with this. So by claiming VT, I was attempting to pass the PR claim over to Swowl. Of course Swowl was seeing (correctly) that there was no room for another 1-shot cop, and I was seeing it incorrectly that there was still room. So if I had known that, I probably would have went ahead and claimed 1-shot cop because I was in a 1v1 anyway.

Yeah I mean it was obv never actually meant to be a crumb, so that was frustrating lol. Then I tried to leverage it when faust brought it up and that was frustrating because it didn't pan out after the claim. And then I got in my own head and thought someone was fake claiming VT and was gonna set me up or something. Problem was claiming full cop was the only option for cop, and there would just literally no reason for me to be alive the next day if I did.

So yeah. I played not great and also just frustration on ever corner, but it was still a fun game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 22, 2021, 04:00:09 am
I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 22, 2021, 04:05:26 am
I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.

Yeah, the benefit of having say extra Cop shots is an increased likelihood of getting a guilty result. The fact that we got one from our only shot means that we really weren't hurt by it.
I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

But I also think it's hard to play when your information doesn't match the public information and you can't talk about it. I'm not sure who was worse off there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: MiX on October 22, 2021, 04:12:42 am
I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?

Scum being scum?

I'm going to be honest, I'm so glad town won so that being gimped by my interpretation of the EE roll didn't cost them... Turns out all you need is a 1-shot cop to turn the tide lol

Agreed that town missed a PR because of the EE roll. They should have had another 1-shot cop or 1-shot doc.

But I do think it actually cost us, as scum, even worse. We expected T or TT based on our roles. So we figured 4 or 5 PRs (something like full cop is equivalent to 2). When only 3 came up in massclaim (ECM), I expected a hidden UB, that e was full cop, or someone else who lied. Because of that, I pushed for it, said more than I otherwise would have, and got caught partly because of things I said - and that was my mistake. That's also why I had to ask for setup clarification publicly, to start justifying why I said the things I did and setup how and when I would add my fake-claim (from the moment iguana didn't claim cop, I started planning the claim that I ended up making too late).

Overall, still a good game. I just wish e had actually been a full cop... then ECCMTT would have made sense.

Yeah, the benefit of having say extra Cop shots is an increased likelihood of getting a guilty result. The fact that we got one from our only shot means that we really weren't hurt by it.
I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

But I also think it's hard to play when your information doesn't match the public information and you can't talk about it. I'm not sure who was worse off there.

An extra PR would've been bad for scum, but an IC or full cop would've been fine, which would amount to be better...

Overall I think it cancels each other out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 22, 2021, 04:18:11 am
I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

This, and the Masons don't work. When town gets more PRs, the idea is that scum gets more powers to counter them. But there is no counter to Masons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 04:19:41 am
I don't agree. Cop results are still valuable even if they're innocent results. Having another IC in this game would have done a lot for us. (Obviously there's Godfather, so innocent results are slightly worse, but still good.)

I feel like because there's a Godfather (who happened to be exiled last), innocent result are often not worth that much. I guess it makes them more likely to be Town because there's only 1 scum they can be, but without a Godfather flip they don't create ICs.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 04:28:23 am
I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

There's clearly a fair bit of intended balance variance in the setup. Eg between TT and T Town gets an extra PR and scum gets nothing. I guess it comes down to your personal balance variance thresholds. Maybe it would be better if E was full Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 04:32:10 am
Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 22, 2021, 04:37:19 am
I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

There's clearly a fair bit of intended balance variance in the setup. Eg between TT and T Town gets an extra PR and scum gets nothing. I guess it comes down to your personal balance variance thresholds. Maybe it would be better if E was full Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop.
But that sort of defeats the purpose of the E category; I think the main reason for including it was to make the game less solvable, so you couldn't say e.g. "we know a 1-shot Doc flipped, so there must also be a full Doc".

I think variance is fine, clearly I'm fine with this setup or I would not have played. That doesn't mean there aren't improvements to be made. (I'm also biased because I did my own take (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16564.0) on a setup like this.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 04:41:18 am
I just realised that Swowl himself was the scum he was arguing caused the no-exile (with some help from MiX of course).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: faust on October 22, 2021, 04:42:54 am
Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
In general, I'd agree. In this setup, it seems pretty hard for a Doctor to successfully prevent a kill. And of course, there's no guarantee that a Doctor exists in the first place.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on October 22, 2021, 04:46:45 am
I think this highlights some issues with the setup. The way Dylan interpreted the setup was clearly unbalanced, but it's not like the intended interpretation was balanced either. 2 1-shot Docs are clearly a lot worse than 2 1-shot Cops.

This, and the Masons don't work. When town gets more PRs, the idea is that scum gets more powers to counter them. But there is no counter to Masons.

So I clearly didn't think through the lack of town PRs in terms of my interpretation of EE, but I do remember having a moment where I thought to myself, "Man scum has a lot of firepower that really isn't going to be of much use at all with these rolls."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 04:55:20 am
Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.
In general, I'd agree. In this setup, it seems pretty hard for a Doctor to successfully prevent a kill. And of course, there's no guarantee that a Doctor exists in the first place.

It's hard because of the Strongman? Yeah I guess Doctors are pretty weak here in general, but I feel like they're basically useless if we're odd. Of course there are no guarantees, but I think the extra difficulty exiling with an even number is well worth the chance of a Doctor giving us an extra exile.

Maybe the possibility of Trackers would strengthen Doctors a bit.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: MiX on October 22, 2021, 05:30:09 am
Unrelated thought: I think with Doctors (particularly 1-Shot), it's better early on to be at an even number to give them a chance to bring us back up to odd. Which means the no-exile was particularly bad, in theory at least.

No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

I still stand by math only flipping scum D1 if scum wanted him to, given Swowl was the deciding vote :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 05:47:40 am
No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

You're right of course; 13 is far better than 12. But I'm suggesting that 12 is a fair bit better than 11 because of the chance that we'll still be 11 on Day 2 (or etc down the line).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: MiX on October 22, 2021, 06:17:24 am
No exile is always bad, but it's much worse in an odd start game.

You're right of course; 13 is far better than 12. But I'm suggesting that 12 is a fair bit better than 11 because of the chance that we'll still be 11 on Day 2 (or etc down the line).

Yeah, and that's one of my favorite things about this setup: a correct doc's great, and vigs can shoot once with little downside.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 06:29:10 am
Yeah, that's a point as well. Even is great for Docs and Vigs.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: EFHW on October 22, 2021, 08:25:29 am
Thanks for the game Dylan!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 22, 2021, 08:31:09 am
EFHW! Despite the fact that it wrong, and I don't think I would do what you were arguing as scum, I really liked your case on me. I thought it was easily the best Day 1 case and was a bit surprised you didn't push it further.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: EFHW on October 22, 2021, 09:02:11 am
EFHW! Despite the fact that it wrong, and I don't think I would do what you were arguing as scum, I really liked your case on me. I thought it was easily the best Day 1 case and was a bit surprised you didn't push it further.

Thanks Jimmmmm! Once town had decided you were town, I had to wait for more indications, though I didn't think I would get any, either way. And I didn't, of course!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Swowl on October 22, 2021, 03:09:33 pm
I'm curious, if it was not a crumb, then what was that EFHW read about?

I was behind on day 1 because VLA, when I came back at night I isoed out players and ended up thinking "yeah Idk what I was thinking, I would not ever push EFHW here as town"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: gkrieg13 on October 22, 2021, 03:11:05 pm
Good game!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on November 25, 2021, 10:18:50 am
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!! I miss you all!