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[Voltgloss]

Grujah:  You say you are against no-lynch, but give no reasoning.  Do you think the proponents of no-lynch are scummy?  If so, why haven't you voted Cayvie (the original proponent of no-lynch)?

[Grujah]

Grujah:  You say you are against no-lynch, but give no reasoning.  Do you think the proponents of no-lynch are scummy?  If so, why haven't you voted Cayvie (the original proponent of no-lynch)?

Not scummy just.. Stupid? Town that tries too much?
I think reasons are obvious, you learn stuff but don't even lose a townie if you are wrong!

[jotheonah]

Voting No Lynch in this setup (at this early juncture) is sort of like voting to skip day 1 and effectively have a night start.

I hadn't considered the fact that there will at least be a no-lynch wagon to analyze. But I'm also not convinced of the value of that wagon. Surely people's night powers will also be more powerful if they have some ideas of who's scum before using them.

[shark_bait]

After thinking about my role, I must agree with Grujah a no lynch is not beneficial.  We won't kill anyone because it's only -5 VP.  The information gained to the deck and subsequent night actions will be much more interesting if one person is already in the red.

unvote

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: Anything but no lynch

Even if we don't get the information today - we'll have the information from the wagon if / when the lynchee's role is revealed in the future.  Worst case we put -5vp on a town target.  That person is then a good candidate for doctoring / jailkeeping etc.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Anything but no lynch

so ... vote by time-stamp? Captain Frisk lynch? Really anything?

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: Anything but no lynch

so ... vote by time-stamp? Captain Frisk lynch? Really anything?

Actually - I think that while -5vp is bad - the wagon that would develop on me would still be interesting. 

Of course I wouldn't vote for it, but I absolutely believe that a random timestamp vote is better than no lynch.

[jotheonah]

Grujah:  You say you are against no-lynch, but give no reasoning.  Do you think the proponents of no-lynch are scummy?  If so, why haven't you voted Cayvie (the original proponent of no-lynch)?

I hate to say it, given my position on it, but I think if scum are weighing in at all on no lynch, they're more likely in the "against it" group. Particularly if their night powers are enough to effect a kill on a "lynched' player but not one in full health.

Here's an interesting thing (so I can contribute SOMETHING before my extended V/LA starts)

Pro-Mass claim
Eevee (sort of, suggested but said he wasn't advocating)
Grujah (calls me scum for opposing it)
CF (says he'll consider it and it's less bad, but never really advocates it)
timchen (at least for quasi-VTs)

Anti Mass Claim
Jotheonah (first to come out against it)
Voltgloss (doesn't outright say it, but asks a lot of critical questions)
cayvie (concerned about name effects)
Robz
Tables
yuma
Dsell
Eevee (some time later. Interesting how Eevee is on both lists)
Insomniac

Pro No lynch
cayvie
shark bait
Tables
timchen
Robz

Anti No Lynch
jtotheonah (sort of. I asked why people thought it was a good idea)
Dsell (at least not right away)
Insomniac
Grujah
Eevee
CF
shark bait (changed his mind)

So, provided with that list, y'all can decide what the "scum side" of each of those issues is and look to see who ended up on both scum sides. I imagine scum wold be pro-massclaim (since knowing all the town's powers puts them in a very powerful position) and anti-no lynch. So I have to FoS: CF, Eevee, and Grujah. Obviously it's not enough to vote on, but it's interesting.

Also, on an unrelated note, for science!
Vote: Axxle

(I want to see if the embargo has disappeared or just the token)

[Grujah]

Vote: Anything but no lynch

so ... vote by time-stamp? Captain Frisk lynch? Really anything?

I agree on vote by time-stamp, can't be worse than lynching a townie D1 which we will do anyway.

[Tables]

Okay. There's been basically no argument for No Lynch other than we get some bandwagon that doesn't even mean much, as we don't get a flip, and... no, that's it. Do I need to say it again? Night phase is probably not bad for the town like it would be in a normal mafia. Town will have a lot of roles, and a lot of power to affect things. And we already have some discussion done in day 1, and arguments for/against a no lynch.

It might be interesting, but the bandwagon will give us basically no information. And information is pretty much the reason for lynching day 1. Still, we can definitely get information from day 1, so I'm definitely in favor of the day continuing, but I just don't think we should lynch anyone today.

I'm a little concerned how quickly some people have changed direction based on virtually no argument at all.

[shark_bait]

I hate to say it, given my position on it, but I think if scum are weighing in at all on no lynch, they're more likely in the "against it" group. Particularly if their night powers are enough to effect a kill on a "lynched' player but not one in full health.

The flip side is than deck aligned power's can also be stronger with a target who is already in the negative.

[jotheonah]

Also: Did Tables ever respond to this?

Vote: Timchen because he's either lying or we can prove he's town.

Even if timchen's claim is true, why would you assume Monument is a Deck role? 

The most obvious reason is that you already know he's Deck-aligned.

And the most likely reason you'd know that, is that you're Curse-aligned.

Vote: Tables

[yuma]

I doubt only one side has scum, my bet is they are on both sides and are just flaming the fire to get town to trust each other less and less.

Given that vote:Shark Bait

Also, I couldn't find Eevee say anything about anti-mass claim. Are you mistaken about him being on both lists? He slightly suggests it in post 113, but I couldn't find him talk about it again. In post 247 he says he is against no lynch, but in between nothing about mass-claim other than his first post.

[jotheonah]

Has anybody considered Axxle isn't to blame at all? Perhaps someone else is Embargo, and placed their token on Axxle?

I assume this is exactly what happened, since I don't know why I'm embargoed.

It's complete and utter WIFOM though.  Does the Embargo player (actually it's not even certain he's curse aligned) put it on a mafia member or a town member?

Eevee, why did you embargo me?

I didnt!
There might be some roles that really work better if you dont have to claim, so against massclaiming too. Will be home and have a computer available in 5 hours, wont be very active before that stlil. Not planning on lurking like this for the rest lf the game.

Here.

[jotheonah]

(#218)

[shark_bait]

Just a comment, but could someone describe how to get to specific post numbers.  That would make things much easier for me.  Thanks! 

[Eevee]

Pro-Mass claim
Eevee (sort of, suggested but said he wasn't advocating)

Anti Mass Claim

Eevee (some time later. Interesting how Eevee is on both lists)

I certainly didnt mean to say "we should mass claim!". I was asking people what they thought of the idea, to get the discussion going. I dont belong in that first list.

@shark_bait

It says "reply #235" or something right above the post.

[jotheonah]

The other thing I noticed on that read through is how quiet Galzria's been this game. Pokes in with short joke/sarcastic posts and a lot of IioA.

@Eevee. It's a fair point. But you brought it up. There wasn't a mass claim discussion before you brought it up. If you didn't think it was a good idea at all, why bring it up?

[yuma]

(#218)

Ha I feel dumb. I was doing a cntrl F for Eevee and found everytime he said something, but my screen cut off everything below "I didn't" and I just kept searching.

Thanks

[Lekkit]

I'm not sure a -5VP to a random townie would benefit us at all. I get the whole wagon thing, but I think a no lynch wagon would probably yield just as much info without anyone having to get down to -5 (or even lower). That's why I'm for a no lynch. However I don't see any reason as to why we have to vote it now, since that would shorten the day.

[Galzria]

The other thing I noticed on that read through is how quiet Galzria's been this game. Pokes in with short joke/sarcastic posts and a lot of IioA.

@Eevee. It's a fair point. But you brought it up. There wasn't a mass claim discussion before you brought it up. If you didn't think it was a good idea at all, why bring it up?

Not a lot to say. I thought I offered some decent points when I did post, but yeah. Prolurker here and all.

I'm against massclaim because I kinda got the feeling the setup was supposed to be wildly varied and just... Fun. I don't know, massclaiming just seems backwards to the intent of the setup. However if it's strongly felt that it will increase towns odds at winning (the goal of the game, not the intent of the setup), I certainly won't complain. So really, pretty neutral.

Same thing with No-Lynch. It just seems like the boring thing to do. It's like giving up on the point of the game and rolling the dice to see if town can win at night, which hardly seems likely. If we no-lynch, the only way to make sense of night results is to massclaim, and by then it may be too late to get a clear picture (not to mention scum can claim based on results, not theoretical results). However, I do understand that the val

[jotheonah]

looks like you got cut off there...

[Eevee]

@Eevee. It's a fair point. But you brought it up. There wasn't a mass claim discussion before you brought it up. If you didn't think it was a good idea at all, why bring it up?

Massclaiming is certainly better here than it would be in a normal game. I couldnt figure if it was enough to make it better than playing normal, so I thought I'd ask what others think to form a more educated opinion (+ get some discussion going)? Then I thought about it some more and read the arguments others presented and decided no, i dont think we want to do that.

Why not to bring it up? Anything even remotely relevant is good enough to get the conversation rolling imo.

[Galzria]

Full Post:

 

The other thing I noticed on that read through is how quiet Galzria's been this game. Pokes in with short joke/sarcastic posts and a lot of IioA.

@Eevee. It's a fair point. But you brought it up. There wasn't a mass claim discussion before you brought it up. If you didn't think it was a good idea at all, why bring it up?

Not a lot to say. I thought I offered some decent points when I did post, but yeah. Prolurker here and all.

I'm against massclaim because I kinda got the feeling the setup was supposed to be wildly varied and just... Fun. I don't know, massclaiming just seems backwards to the intent of the setup. However if it's strongly felt that it will increase towns odds at winning (the goal of the game, not the intent of the setup), I certainly won't complain. So really, pretty neutral.

Same thing with No-Lynch. It just seems like the boring thing to do. It's like giving up on the point of the game and rolling the dice to see if town can win at night, which hardly seems likely. If we no-lynch, the only way to make sense of night results is to massclaim, and by then it may be too late to get a clear picture (not to mention scum can claim based on results, not theoretical results). However, I do understand that the value of a lynch in a game where the lychee isn't killed is significantly reduced. So again I come up rather null.

Not sure how much more I have to add at this time. I'm quiet, but not absent. I'm taking my share of notes to the best that I'm able, and contributing when I feel there's something worth saying. I'm trying not to bog down the thread with random noise, which seems to irk some people.

[shark_bait]

I doubt only one side has scum, my bet is they are on both sides and are just flaming the fire to get town to trust each other less and less.

So you're saying that even though the deck's goal is to win, some of the deck members have the ability to grant -VP?  This seems completely counter intuitive.  Such a role would make sense to be part of the curse faction.  Mind you, this is role madness, so I guess anything is possible, but it still seems like a role of such nature would be curse instead of deck.