Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10  All

Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards  (Read 59708 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4071
    • View Profile
The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« on: January 10, 2013, 02:24:09 am »
+5

Here's the video link:


The Best $3 Cards - Part 1/3
Link to the win rates on Councilroom
Link 2 to the win rates on Councilroom

#32 Chancellor (Base) Weighted Average: 4.4% ▼3.3pp / Median: 3.2% ▼0.8pp / Standard Deviation: 8.6% =0
Highest Value(s): 48.4% (1x), 23.3% (1x), 22.6% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 0% (24x)

Chancellor is without a doubt again the worst $3 card this year. It even lost over 3pp and has the second least devation in this list. It has only one high outlier and 24 last ranks.

Being in the Base Set, most players (like me) didn't got the use of Chancellor at first. Yes, it costs $3 like Silver and gives also 2 coins, but it costs an action for what? To put your deck into your discard pile? Why do I want to do that? You can get your recently bought great cards faster! Yeah, that sounds great. But those great cards are mostly terminals and then Chancellor becomes a dead card. I think it would be a better card if it wasn't terminal. So it only shines in rare scenarios like Stash or maybe Counting House and can be good in Potion games. But if you want to get your recently bought cards earlier, use cards that put these cards on top of your deck like Royal Seal, Watchtower or Armory.
#31 Woodcutter (Base) Weighted Average: 13.8% ▼2.2pp / Median: 9.7% ▼6.3pp / Standard Deviation: 12.5% ▼0.2pp
Highest Value(s): 58.1% (2x), 36.0% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 0% (4x)

Another card from the base set, and it lost a rank comparing to last year. It got 4 last places and has still a pretty high consensus.

It is mostly worse than Silver as its only use is its +Buy. Sure, +Buy can be pretty important, especially in engine games, but still that makes it no power card as you still only buy it when there's no other card that provides that +Buy. You can use it very well for a Gardens rush, but beside of that, there's not really much to say about that simple card.
#30 Develop (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 15.6% ▲5.5pp / Median: 9.7% ▲5.7pp / Standard Deviation: 19.1% ▼6.1pp
Highest Value(s): 80.6% (1x), 77.4% (1x), 64.0% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 0% (9x)

Develop climbed up another rank as it switched places with Woodcutter. It gained a lot of points, but there seems still to be a lot of disagreement about its placement. It has 9 last ranks on one side, but on the other side some really high ranks in the upper third.

A good trasher mostly has to be a good start buy. Develop can only trash one copper at a time without benefit. You get a Silver for a trashed Estate, which can be put on top of your deck. That's at least really nice. Later in the game you get 2 cards for trashing one. This is something you only want if there are a lot of really good cards in the supply and most important in a specific price range because you have to gain a card which cost exactly one more and one less than the trashed card. Those cases are rare, but when it is one of those cases, Develop can be pretty good. It's good with good $5s and $7s like developing a Gold into a King's Court and a Wharf putting both on top of the deck. In the end of the game you want victory cards. Developing a Silver in an Estate and a Silk Road can be really nice for example. But you have to put them on your deck, really nasty, so be sure to end the game this turn. So it often fails in being a good trasher, you have to see it as a gainer instead. That's something that makes it tricky to play. It's really good in engines with many power cards, but is otherwise often ignorable.
#29 Workshop (Base) Weighted Average: 19.1% ▼1.6pp / Median: 16.1% ▼1.9pp / Standard Deviation: 14.7% ▼0.2pp
Highest Value(s): 61.3% (1x), 60.0% (1x), 45.2% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 3.2% (4x), 0% (1x)

And there's already the third card from the base set with only one card left to come in this list. It lost one rank in comparism to last year. It got one last rank and two above average votes.

You must ask yourself: How many $3 or $4 cards do I want in my deck? With Gardens in the supply, you may answer "as many I can get". Silver, Gardens, Estates and more Workshops are all good cards. But in all other situations you want $5 cards and Gold. And in comparism to Ironworks where you get at least a benefit and which isn't terminal if you gain action cards, it's a "wasted" action. The only cards that you want as many you can get may be Tournament, Caravan, Conspirator and any Village + card drawer like Smithy. But for all you have to spend your action and you have to be sure there isn't another terminal action you want to play too.
#28 Great Hall (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 21.4% ▼8.6pp / Median: 22.6% ▼13.4pp / Standard Deviation: 17.8% ▼0.9pp
Highest Value(s): 100% (1x), 58.1% (1x), 56.0% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 3.3% (2x), 3.2% (1x), 0% (1x)

Great Hall went down one rank and lost a lot of points. It got last once and, wow, it even got first once. Beside that really big outlier, there were 2 more above average votes. Taking the unweighted ranking into account, it would have been one rank higher.

There is not much to say to Great Hall beside how difficult it is to rank. It's often a consolation prize over an Estate as it is 1 point that doesn't hurt your deck (as long as you don't draw it dead), so that's really nice. But it might even sort of hurt with Golem or Wandering Minstrel in your deck. You can buy it early if you have an additional buy and $3 left and don't need another Silver. It also supports Silk Road strategies nicely. You can even use Throne Room or King's Court with it for additional benefit if you're really desperate. It can enable Conspirator chains and other rare cases where another cantrip is useful. The best combo might be with Ironworks where you can pick it up and get a cantrip bonus. But it's never a card you use for your strategy, instead you buy it if you have $3 left and don't need more money, then you're glad to pick another VP. And you often buy Estates in the end game, Estates you will may never see in your hand. In those cases it doesn't even matter if you pick up a Great Hall or an Estate.
#27 Fortune Teller (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 23.1% ▲3.2pp / Median: 19.4% ▲3.4pp / Standard Deviation: 17.6% ▼1.6pp
Highest Value(s): 87.1% (1x), 64.0% (1x), 54.8% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 0% (4x)

Fortune Teller is one of the worst attacks in the game and the first attack of all lists so far. But it at least went up 2 ranks compared to last year. But it still has 4 votes for the last rank. Like said before it would have been one rank lower if we wouldn't weight this list.

In games with trashers you want your Estates in hand and get rid of them, especially with Lookout Fortune Teller is bad. If you've trashed them, Fortune Teller just cycles through your deck, so your opponent mostly profits from your attack. In Tournament and Tunnel games you help your opponent even more. And in all other occasions there are mostly cards that soft counter top-decked victory cards or get profit from them by discarding. If those cases all don't exist, Fortune Teller might be a good buy, but those cases are very rare too. It gets better in the end game, but in the end game mostly you don't waste your buy for a Fortune Teller. And in comparism to Rabble which can be very nasty, Fortune Teller doesn't even get more benefit if you play twice or more in one turn.
#26 Smugglers (Seaside) Weighted Average: 27.5% ▼4.4pp / Median: 24.0% ▼8.0pp / Standard Deviation: 21.3% ▲1.2pp
Highest Value(s): 80.6% (1x), 76.7% (1x), 71.0% (2x) / Lowest Value(s): 3.2% (6x), 0% (1x)

Smugglers stayed where it was, but lost a lot of points. It gained a little bit of consensus, but is still the card with the third highest deviation in this list. This shows the 8 above average votes. It is overrated by newer players because it would be one place higher in the unweighted ranking.

Why this high deviation? First, its strenth depends of the board. Second, with Smugglers the luck factor is high. If your opponent has bought a card which you don't want, it's a dead card, especially later in the game where he buys only Provinces. And with Smugglers in your deck, you have to commit to the strategy of your opponent and have a hard time getting better than him. Smuggle a Gold early or smuggle an additional Duchy (especially with Duke) in the late game is really nice, but with a supply with many terminals, you rather buy the good terminals and money instead of wasting your action for getting another Silver or another terminal you won't be able to play. But if there are many cantrips and you're going to build a neat engine, Smugglers can be a good buy. And if you're not going first you can compensate this disadvantage. King's Courting a Smugglers can also be very strong in a good running engine. We can say, Smugglers is very board-dependant and can be a very good buy on some boards, especially if you're not going first.
#25 Loan (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 28.8% ▼6.5pp / Median: 25.8% ▼10.2pp / Standard Deviation: 17.3% ▼0.1pp
Highest Value(s): 64.5% (1x), 60.0% (1x), 58.1% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 0% (4x)

Loan lost a rank and even more points than Smugglers. Its Median dropped more than 10pp! Its deviation on the other side pretty much stayed the same. It was voted 10 times above average and 4 times last. Like said before, it would be even one rank lower in the unweighted ranking.

You can trash without spending an action, that's always great. It also gives at least one coin which is no big deal, but is still better than Trade Route early. And you don't need to trash a card from your hand, so you have still 4 cards in your hand you can play. Seems great so far, right? But this is also a problem: That involves a luck factor as it may find every time your only Silver in your deck which you even can't play in your next turn (and may discard all your good power terminals at the same time). Also it's limited to treasure cards and therefore basically to Copper. So it has advantages and disadvantages and some may evaluate the advantages higher while others seem to do it vice versa. Masquerade / Loan is better than Masquerade / Silver on #63 of the best openings.
#24 Wishing Well (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 34.8% ▼2.2pp / Median: 32.3% ▼3.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.0% ▼0.9
Highest Value(s): 80.0% (1x), 71.0% (1x), 64.0% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 6.5% (2x), 0% (1x)

We make a bigger gap of 6pp and come to the Medium level cards where 3 cards are very close together. The first one is Wishing Well. It lost even 2 ranks, but not so much points. It was voted 7 times above average and got one last rank.

Wishing Well is both a high skill and a high luck-dependent card. How is that possible? First, it's a cantrip, so it rarely hurts. But if you don't guess correctly it does you no good and you rather buy a Silver. One problem is that you have to guess the second card, so that cards like Spy, Lookout that seem to synergize don't work. But with cards like Apothecary or Cartographer it works really well. Then it can be a guaranteed cheap Laboratory. In Colony games where you don't want to have many Silvers and especially when your money average is higher than $2, Wishing Well is a good choice. And in some decks you only buy a few different cards, so you can maximize your probability. And if you're really good with card counting, this is really a good card if there are few cards left in your draw pile. It's also a very good counter against Ghost Ship. Young Witch / Wishing Well is even better than Young Witch / Silver on #93 ▲27 of the best openings.
#23 Trade Route (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 34.9% ▼0.7pp / Median: 35.5% ▼0.5pp / Standard Deviation: 20.1% ▼3.6pp
Highest Value(s): 96.8% (1x), 80.0% (1x), 80.6% (1x) / Lowest Value(s): 9.7% (3x), 4.0% (1x)

There's a gap of only 0.1pp until the next card. Trade Route is on the same rank as last year and has also a similar rating. But it lost a lot of consensus. It has on one side 13 above average votes (one voted it even on the second place) and some really low votes. But it's the first card with no last place so far. In the unweighted ranking it would have been one rank higher.

It's not a very good trasher as an opening buy as you don't get enough benefit until the end of the game unless you're building an engine with low cost cards and you desperately need the trashing or the +buy. It's better if there are additional victory cards in the supply, especially action/victory cards like Island or Nobles that get bought earlier, but still, as a trasher it's no good opening buy. Buying green cards earlier just to get more benefit is rarely a good decision as your opponent may buy Trade Routes too and get the same benefit without clogging up his own deck. Mostly you buy it if it's the only source of +Buy and you really need that +Buy and later in the game where you're going green and it's really a neck-and-neck-race, so Trade Routes are now worth $3, $4 or even more. Then they can be really powerful. The difference in strength through the game may be the reason for the disagreement in the votes.
#22 Shanty Town (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 35.1% ▲1.6pp / Median: 32.3% ▲0.3pp / Standard Deviation: 17.1% ▼0.5pp
Highest Value(s): 68.0% (2x), 67.7% (2x) / Lowest Value(s): 12.9% (1x), 6.5% (2x)

And there's the best card of the 3 ones that are clumped together. Only 0.2pp more and there's Shanty Town. It's 3 ranks better than last year, but has only a slightly better rating. It was voted 11 times above average with a lot of them in the 60% range. In the unweighted ranking it would be below Trade Route.

Shanty Town is a very problematic village. If you want villages you have many terminals and want to build an engine. Shanty Town is bad as it only gives you +2 Actions and is actually a Necropolis. If you want the +2 Cards for a Big Money strategy, the +2 Actions are wasted. And if you have multiple Shanty Towns in hand and no terminals, it's even worse. The best use is to minimize bad draw luck, when you have many terminals, but have the bad luck to not draw them with your village. Then you have a second shot to draw them with your +2 Cards. And if you have 2 Shanty Towns and 1 terminal in hand, it's not bad after all. Play your first Shanty Town, then your terminal and then you can play the second one and hopefully draw more terminals. But the raw benefit is in this case the same as you would get out of a "normal" Village. And even if you play basically Big Money, Shanty Town serves like a Laboratory for you.

To Part 2
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 04:49:52 pm by Qvist »
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2939
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2446
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 02:57:03 am »
0

I think Shanty Town is underrrated and Loan and Develop should switch places. I don't know. I'm not that big of a fan of Loan though.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3327
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 02:59:23 am »
0

I feel Wishing Well is underrated. Even when you guess right only 50% of the time, it's like a half Lab which isn't bad for $3.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1112
  • Respect: +773
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 03:20:23 am »
+1

I think Loan, Shanty town, Wishing well and especially fortune teller are underrated.

Loan : It's really not a so bad trasher, it cycle the deck quite well and can be very strong for treasureless deck. IMO loan is often better than lookout.

Shanty town : I think it's one of those "not well used" cards. Often the lab function helps.

Wishing well : it is a difficult card to use, so I somehow understand the ranking. I guess most people (like me) do not keep track of there deck...

Fortune teller : The attack hurts, somehow like a minion-for-the-next-turn because the opponent will only have 4 useful cards in his hand. And minion's attack is quite strong. FT is not the best card of the world but it should be ranked about 10 spots higher IMO.
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1388
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +714
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 05:06:00 am »
0


Wishing well : it is a difficult card to use, so I somehow understand the ranking. I guess most people (like me) do not keep track of there deck...


I am a sucker for Loan. Wishing Well works nicely with Scrying Pools. Wish for the lint if you have a Scrying Pool in hand, and wish for the Scrying Pool if you don't.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3327
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 05:23:10 am »
0


Wishing well : it is a difficult card to use, so I somehow understand the ranking. I guess most people (like me) do not keep track of there deck...


I am a sucker for Loan. Wishing Well works nicely with Scrying Pools. Wish for the lint if you have a Scrying Pool in hand, and wish for the Scrying Pool if you don't.
Well, at the start you have a pretty uniform deck with 7 Coppers and 3 Estates, so you can guess right a pretty high percentage of the time. This way it functions like an early Shanty Town.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1008
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 05:32:18 am »
0

Trade route is grossly overrated. So is lookout. I'd put workshop higher, but I just really like the card. Loan is maybe a tad underrated.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2939
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2446
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 05:33:10 am »
0

Trade route is grossly overrated. So is lookout. I'd put workshop higher, but I just really like the card. Loan is maybe a tad underrated.

I agree on the Lookout part. You can only trash from 3 cards and late game you risk hitting something important.
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1388
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +714
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 05:45:29 am »
0

Trade route is grossly overrated. So is lookout. I'd put workshop higher, but I just really like the card. Loan is maybe a tad underrated.

I agree on the Lookout part. You can only trash from 3 cards and late game you risk hitting something important.

Lookout should have received a boost with Dark Ages. Having another action to spend after you drew the card (which you are too choose between the other two) for that Overgrown Estate or Rats is not bad at all. And you have a spare action to use Gravedigger if Lookout accidentally a Gold.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 05:48:14 am by ipofanes »
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3327
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 05:49:29 am »
0

Trade route is grossly overrated. So is lookout. I'd put workshop higher, but I just really like the card. Loan is maybe a tad underrated.

I agree on the Lookout part. You can only trash from 3 cards and late game you risk hitting something important.

Lookout should have received a boost with Dark Ages. Having another action to spend after you drew the card (which you are too choose between the other two) for that Overgrown Estate or Rats is not bad at all. And you have a spare action to use Gravedigger if Lookout accidentally a Gold.
Yeah, but I feel Dark Ages experience is lacking on a lot of players, including myself. it's hard enough to judge the DA cards, let alone re-judge the current cards based on DA.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1112
  • Respect: +773
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 06:39:12 am »
0

Also, I tend to think chancellor is a little bit better than woodcutter. Because :
1) Chancellor is not so bad, especially for the opening with cantrips (tournament) or money (quarry)...
2) There is very often a better source of +buy than woodcutter in the kingdom
3) Sometimes you simply don't need +buy and woodcutter is therefore a terminal silver.
4) I thought in the begining that woodcutter was good for alt vp, but not even.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:41:37 am by brokoli »
Logged

D Bo

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
  • Respect: +93
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 07:20:45 am »
+1

Wow, I can't believe Lookout isn't in the bottom. I admit that I don't like the card so that probably owed partially to my low ranking, but it seems like it's tough to get use out of it. Most of the times I'd rather just buy silver.
Logged

kn1tt3r

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 585
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 07:21:05 am »
+4

*lol* @ ranking Great Hall at #1
Logged

Piemaster

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +169
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 08:04:30 am »
+2

*lol* @ ranking Great Hall at #1

Don't get me wrong, it's good that people have different opinions and if the opinion is genuine I'm more than happy for it to be included in the rankings.  But I think that anybody who is familiar enough with this forum to submit to the card rankings should have read enough random strategy threads, and absorbed enough through osmosis, to know that Great Hall is far from the best $3 card.  This makes me think that this ranking is more likely to be a joke or an attention-seeking ploy.  I hope I'm wrong.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3327
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 08:08:02 am »
+1

*lol* @ ranking Great Hall at #1
Must have only played an Ironworks/Scout kind of board. :D
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1172
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1450
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 08:08:51 am »
0

The list so far is pretty close to my rankings, besides Wishing Well being much lower than I have it and Black Market being higher. I think Black Market is a lot closer to Woodcutter than people realize, being a card that allows you an extra buy that you might not even want.

My only other complaint is that Smugglers is overrated, and should probably be closer to or even behind Workshop. The only time having a Smugglers is better than having a Workshop is when your opponent gains a $5 or $6 card that you actually want. If they gain a $0 to $4 card, you could have gotten it with Workshop while giving yourself more choice. Workshop is much better in divergent strategies and alt-VP. Not being able to choose which card to gain can really hurt, and too often Smugglers is a dead card.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1734
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1943
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 08:14:21 am »
+3

*lol* @ ranking Great Hall at #1

But it gives you points without clogging up your deck! Can't go wrong with that. There's a reason it's called Great Hall and not Meh Hall.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4071
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 08:15:24 am »
0

*lol* @ ranking Great Hall at #1

Don't get me wrong, it's good that people have different opinions and if the opinion is genuine I'm more than happy for it to be included in the rankings.  But I think that anybody who is familiar enough with this forum to submit to the card rankings should have read enough random strategy threads, and absorbed enough through osmosis, to know that Great Hall is far from the best $3 card.  This makes me think that this ranking is more likely to be a joke or an attention-seeking ploy.  I hope I'm wrong.

That's why the rankings are weighted. No worries.

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1734
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1943
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 08:16:14 am »
+1

The list so far is pretty close to my rankings, besides Wishing Well being much lower than I have it and Black Market being higher. I think Black Market is a lot closer to Woodcutter than people realize, being a card that allows you an extra buy that you might not even want.

I agree Black Market is usually not great, but when it's good it's amazing. Pulling an Early Mountebank or King's Court out can be devastating.
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4071
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 08:18:26 am »
0

The list so far is pretty close to my rankings, besides Wishing Well being much lower than I have it and Black Market being higher. I think Black Market is a lot closer to Woodcutter than people realize, being a card that allows you an extra buy that you might not even want.

I agree Black Market is usually not great, but when it's good it's amazing. Pulling an Early Mountebank or King's Court out can be devastating.

Yeah. The luck factor is high, but if you're on the lucky side, Black Market is big. If you haven't watched my latest Tournament match, go and watch it. BM won me one game there. I never had a luckier BM before AFAIR.

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4071
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 08:21:16 am »
0

My only other complaint is that Smugglers is overrated, and should probably be closer to or even behind Workshop. The only time having a Smugglers is better than having a Workshop is when your opponent gains a $5 or $6 card that you actually want. If they gain a $0 to $4 card, you could have gotten it with Workshop while giving yourself more choice. Workshop is much better in divergent strategies and alt-VP. Not being able to choose which card to gain can really hurt, and too often Smugglers is a dead card.

I disagree a little bit. On a board where Workshop is an option a mirror strategy is very likely in most cases. And if there are also some cards that you want costing more than $4, then Smugglers is often superior. Smugglers is also especially good when it comes to Duchy dancing. And Smugglers is amazing with Border Village. I should add that to the article or maybe next time.

RobBennett

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
  • Respect: +8
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 08:37:12 am »
+4

This makes me think that this ranking is more likely to be a joke or an attention-seeking ploy.  I hope I'm wrong.

It wasn't me with the Great Hall ranking. So I cannot say for sure. But my guess, based on my own experience, is that the ranking is sincere.

I only play in real life and I usually play with three players. I learn a lot from the discussions here and I am aware when my own rankings are strongly at odds with the consensus here (I ranked Smugglers very high). I sometimes feel some self-exerted pressures to conform to the consensus, which is obviously in a general sense better informed than my own take. But I try not to let the consensus sway me too much because, if we all did that, how would the consensus ever change?

I respect the consensus viewpoints. There have been many times when I had a different take and over time I came to see that the consensus take was better informed. But there are also cases when I just cannot see it and feel that I need to go my own way, knowing that what seems right to me may in reality be a foolish newbie take.

I have had very good experiences with Smugglers. People I respect say I am wrong. I acknowledge that I might be. Still, as of this moment, my sincere belief is that Smugglers is a better card than some smart people think it to be. For now, I think it is right for me to give Smugglers a higher-than-consensus rank.

Somebody out there may for some reason just have had some amazing experiences with Great Hall!

Rob
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8072
  • Respect: +8862
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 08:41:00 am »
0

I'm sad that Develop didn't rise more than it did... there seems to have been a lot of discussion about its uses over the past several months, as well as lots of game reports where it was a great card. I know I buy it way more than I used to. I didn't fill out a ranking, but I would have probably put it above Great Hall and maybe above Fortune Teller.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3327
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 08:45:20 am »
+4

The problem with the consensus is that it keeps reasserting itself.

I mean, people see Ambassador and Masquerade on top of the list and think: Those must be powerful cards!
Now I'm not saying they aren't, but new players may see this and without doing any legwork of their own they will judge these cards based on previous judgments. Because they think these cards are so good, they keep buying them and playing with them, getting even better with them. On the other hand, they will rarely buy the bottom-feeders as clearly they must be no good, so they don't improve with them.

The next time they get to put in a vote, they choose almost the same cards at the same positions.
But this is inherent to voting for lists with previous results. In Holland we have an annual top 2000 best songs of all time list and every year the same song is at #1 (Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody).

I think the voters can think for themselves pretty well though and I'm not pointing any fingers, but there are some things that will inevitably happen with lists like these. We just have to remember this when we read the results.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +602
    • View Profile
Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards (Part 1/3)
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 08:45:30 am »
0

I definitely think Loan should not be in the bottom third.  Yes, it's terrible for money.  Buttt, in any moneyless engine (ala Minion, Cantrip+Conspirator, etc.) it's THE premier trasher, because you will be able to keep your initial copper economy just long enough to buy your actions, and then once you have your new action economy... all your coppers are gone!  On some boards, I think it is better for trashing than Remake or Chapel just because you are still able to buy an engine piece on turns you use your loan.

Other than that... Shanty Town is overrated.  I had it third to last, and I think it might be worse than that.
Logged
A man on a mission.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10  All
 

Page created in 0.219 seconds with 21 queries.