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Author Topic: Count and Market Square interaction  (Read 2459 times)

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Barkeep

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Count and Market Square interaction
« on: October 19, 2012, 03:17:32 pm »
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I had the following scenario come up recently and was very uncertain about the correct ruling:

Someone has Count and Market Square in hand.  They play Count, choosing to trash their hand while the Market Square and at least one other card is in their hand.

Question 1: Can they use the reaction ability of Market Square to discard Market Square and gain a gold?
Question 1a: If the player can use the reaction ability, does the Market Square get trashed?

As I first read the cards, my friend and I agreed to play the card that Market Square could be discarded to gain a gold, but the Market Square would still be trashed because it was flagged to be trashed by Count.

Any advice on what the correct ruling for this situation is would be greatly appreciated.
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shark_bait

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 03:31:57 pm »
+1

I would say that with Count's trashing, all the your cards are being trashed simultaneously.  So therefore you no longer have Market Square in hand to reveal for the reaction part.  In conclusion, your entire hand is trashed and you do not get a Gold.
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AJD

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 03:42:22 pm »
+1

Shark Bait is correct; Count would trash Market Square before you have an opportunity to reveal it. But I want to point out that even if it were possible to discard Market Square in response to trashing with Count, the following would be incorrect:

As I first read the cards, my friend and I agreed to play the card that Market Square could be discarded to gain a gold, but the Market Square would still be trashed because it was flagged to be trashed by Count.

The Market Square would not still end up in the trash in that scenario, as a result of the lose-track principle.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 03:44:51 pm »
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Here's what you do: Trash your hand.

There, your whole hand is in the trash now. Now let's check for things that triggered from that. Hey, you trashed a Cultist. That'll give you +3 cards. And you trashed a Catacombs. That'll gain you a card. And you trashed a Market Square, a Copper, and an Estate. Hm.

You've got three things that care about the fact that you trashed your hand, and you can resolve them in any order. So you can gain a card, then draw cards, or vice versa. Thing is, though, no matter when you resolve Market Square, you can't discard it from your hand; it's in the trash. And since you didn't discard it, you don't gain a gold.
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Barkeep

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 03:52:51 pm »
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Thanks, that interpretation makes sense.  I guess really the question boiled down to whether the trashing of your hand happened in bulk or one card at a time.
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ftl

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 04:42:44 pm »
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It happens in bulk.
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TWoos

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 05:14:32 pm »
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Crazy thought, probably wrong.


Trashing your hand means trashing each card.  Those are simultaneous actions, so you can choose the order they occur in.

Trash one of your choice.  Activate Market Square, discarding Market Square and gaining a gold.  Continue trashing what's in your hand.


So, what's wrong with this?
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 05:18:59 pm »
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Trashing your hand means trashing each card.
he
This is the mistake. Trashing your hand means trashing your hand. "Put your deck into your discard pile" doesn't mean "discard each card in your deck", similarly.
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TWoos

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2012, 09:21:32 pm »
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Trashing your hand means trashing each card.
he
This is the mistake. Trashing your hand means trashing your hand. "Put your deck into your discard pile" doesn't mean "discard each card in your deck", similarly.

Edited: I pulled up the rules for Dark Ages where it says how it works.  Nevermind now.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:24:05 pm by TWoos »
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Zaphod

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 05:55:14 pm »
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Here's what you do: Trash your hand.

There, your whole hand is in the trash now. Now let's check for things that triggered from that. Hey, you trashed a Cultist. That'll give you +3 cards. And you trashed a Catacombs. That'll gain you a card. And you trashed a Market Square, a Copper, and an Estate. Hm.

This brings up a combo I hadn't considered before...you play Count, put a Market Square from your hand on top or your deck, then trash your hand.  One of the cards in your hand was a Cultist, so you draw three cards, including that Market Square.  You trashed cards this turn, so can you discard that Market Square and gain a Gold?  I would think so, although it wasn't in your hand at the moment you trashed the cards.

Market Square is a really fun card, I think.
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ftl

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 05:59:39 pm »
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yes, you can do that.
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Qvist

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Re: Count and Market Square interaction
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 07:32:47 pm »
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Crazy thought, probably wrong.


Trashing your hand means trashing each card.  Those are simultaneous actions, so you can choose the order they occur in.

Trash one of your choice.  Activate Market Square, discarding Market Square and gaining a gold.  Continue trashing what's in your hand.


So, what's wrong with this?

Interesting, but: From the rulebook:

Quote from: Rulebook
When two or more cards are trashed at the same time, as with Count, first trash them all,
then pick an order to resolve things that happen due to trashing them.

So, basically the Market Square reaction triggers, but the card is already in the trash, so you can't reveal/discard it anymore.
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