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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights  (Read 7245 times)

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Qvist

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The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« on: May 27, 2014, 05:00:57 am »
+15

The Best Knights

72 votes on this list

#10 ▼3 Dame Josephine Weighted Average: 12.0% ▼24.3pp / Unweighted Average: 15.7% / Median: 11.1% ▼22.2pp / Standard Deviation: 20.6%

Dame Josephine aka the VP Knight is now clearly the worst Knight. She lost 3 ranks and nearly 25pp and has the third highest deviation. She was voted last 33 times.

Dame Josephine is one of the worst knights you can get if you go heavily on Knights especially if she is the Top Knight. She gives you no benefit all game and as she eventually gets trashed you lost the points. But later in the game she is in direct competition with Duchy. You get 1VP less and have the chance to play her and trash an opponents' Duchy what would her make worth 5VP. But on the other side you could get unlucky and hit an opponents' Knight so that you lost her and rather would have picked up a Duchy. So, picking her up is a bit of a gamble. You could decide not to play her in the end game, but then she should have been a Duchy. But if you play her, you have to hope for the best.
#9 =0 Sir Martin Weighted Average: 20.0% ▲1.6pp / Unweighted Average: 21.3% / Median: 11.1% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 18.9%

Sir Martin aka the +Buy Knight stayed where he was. He has the third lowest deviation in this list and was voted last 13 times. In the unweighted ranking he is rated one rank higher.

The +2 Buys is of course the weakest benefit of all knights. But Sir Martin costs only $4. As you know the difference between a $4 and $5 cost card is big and the attack effect for only $4 is not a bad deal. Also he's a cheap knight you can pick up only for defense purposes if your opponent goes heavily on Knights. Also if you're playing an alternative strategy like going for Gardens Sir Martin is a great Knight to get. If you heavily go for Knights, Sir Martin is probably the weakest you can get because if you go for an engine you most likely have another source of +Buy already and you really can't rely on getting him. What makes him good in an engine is that you can pick him easily up with a gainer like Ironworks, so he has a low opportunity cost.
#8 =0 Sir Vander Weighted Average: 21.2% ▼10.1pp / Unweighted Average: 18.7% / Median: 22.2% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 16.2%

Sir Vander aka the On-Trash Gold-gain Knight stayed also on the same rank and is slightly better than Sir Martin. He has the lowest deviation in this list and was voted last 16 times. In the unweighted ranking he is rated one rank lower.

Sir Vander has no special on-play ability what makes him look weak. But if you have only $5 and want a Gold instead, this isn't a bad deal. You can use him to slow your opponent down a little bit and you really don't care if he gets trashed. You converted a $5 cost card into a $6 cost card. He's probably more useful as defense though. Your opponent has to trash a probably better Knight and you get a Gold out of him, a very good deal for you. Also it's possible to use a trash-for-benefit card on him although I think I've never seen that yet.
#7 ▲3 Dame Natalie Weighted Average: 34.1% ▲20.5pp / Unweighted Average: 31.5% / Median: 33.3% ▲22.2pp / Standard Deviation: 20.7%

Dame Natalie aka the Gainer Knight is not the worst knight anymore. She is 3 ranks and 20pp better, but has still 8 votes on the last rank. She has the second highest deviation in this list.

If you go heavily for Knights you want to play them as often as you can. Dame Natalie gives you the ability to flood your deck with $3 cost cards, but on most boards this decreases the ability to play them often. Therefore she's a good Knight to pick up as a defense. Then you can flood your deck with Silver and you don't mind if she's getting trashed to a strong knight. With cheap engine components like Village, Hamlet or Fishing Village this can be a really good Knight to pick up in the early game though if you want to build an engine with Knights. You use this as a gainer and can slow your opponent down. But of course this is very situational. What's not to underestimate is the possibility to gain Estates in the end game when the game is close to a tie.
#6 ▼3 Dame Sylvia Weighted Average: 51.0% ▼10.8pp / Unweighted Average: 51.4% / Median: 55.6% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 20.5%

We're making a big jump of ~17pp. Dame Sylvia aka the terminal Silver Knight lost 3 ranks and is 10pp worse. She was voted as the best knight twice.

Dame Sylvia is very powerful to get early as she is probably best in picking up other Knights as she boosts your economy the most early. Later in the game she is probably worse than Sir Destry who gives you +2 Cards instead.
#5 ▲1 Sir Destry Weighted Average: 59.6% ▲5.4pp / Unweighted Average: 58.8% / Median: 66.7% ▲22.2pp / Standard Deviation: 20.4%

Sir Destry aka the Draw Knight is one rank better and by 5pp also slightly better in its average value. He was voted first twice.

Sir Destry is one of the best additions into an engine when you can easily pick up cheap villages. If you're going BM you could also easily pick him up to slow your opponent a little bit down or as a defense against Knights as it's useful for you, but you also don't mind if you have to sacrifice him for another Knight.
#4 =0 Dame Molly Weighted Average: 64.7% ▲5.2pp / Unweighted Average: 64.0% / Median: 66.7% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 19.5%

Dame Molly aka the village Knight stayed where she was before, but has a slightly better average value. She was voted first 3 times, but also last once.

Dame Molly is a great addition to an engine. As you have other villages already (otherwise you shouldn't for the engine of course) +2 Actions doesn't seem like a huge benefit, basically only a Necropolis, non-terminal attacks are very powerful as you can play her guaranteed unless you draw her dead. Also if you go heavily for Knights, even if you're not going for an engine, it's essential to be able to play multiple Knights per turn. The ability to play 3 Knights out of a 3 card hand is huge and shouldn't be underestimated.
#3 ▲2 Dame Anna Weighted Average: 73.4% ▲14.9pp / Unweighted Average: 71.8% / Median: 77.8% ▲22.2pp / Standard Deviation: 22.1%

Dame Anna aka the Trasher Knight is 2 ranks and nearly 15pp better. She is the knight with the highest deviation with 12 votes on the first rank, but still one last rank.

Dame Anna is one of the best Knights you can have as the Top Knight, especially if you're going for Knights. Thinning out the deck allows you to play your Knights very often which is great of course. Getting her can be huge, especially if there is no other trasher available. She is no good Knight to pick up for defense as thinning out only allows your opponents' Knights to hit more often. But still, she is really situational. Also, if you get her in the mid-game the trashing is usually not that useful anymore.
#2 =0 Sir Bailey Weighted Average: 79.9% ▲2.1pp / Unweighted Average: 81.3% / Median: 88.9% ▲11.1pp / Standard Deviation: 17.9%

Sir Bailey aka the Cantrip Knight changed the least of all knights; he's only 2pp better and still on the same rank. He has the second lowest deviation of all knights and was voted first 20 times.

As said before, non-terminal attacks are very strong and him being a cantrip makes him worth to pick up on many occasions as he doesn't hurt unless you draw it dead. So you can add him to your deck even if you don't plan to go heavily for knights. The possibility to play 2 strong attacks (either another Knight or another strong attack) without the need of a village can be huge.
#1 =0 Sir Michael Weighted Average: 84.1% ▼4.6pp / Unweighted Average: 85.5% / Median: 88.9% ▼11.1pp / Standard Deviation: 19.3%

Sir Micheal aka the discarding Knight is still the best knight, but the lead isn't as big anymore. He was voted first 33 times.

Sir Michael attacks twice which can really slow someone down. Trashing and discarding can set someone 2 turns back. If you manage to play only him each turn once, your opponent has really trouble. He alone may be the reason that your opponent picks up a Knight just to get rid of him.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 08:58:40 am »
+1

Good to see people come around on Dames Natalie and Anna. I still would rather have Dame Josephine over Sir Martin, but maybe that's psychological.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 09:14:02 am »
+4

I'd put Anna first and Natalie second, other than that I have no major disagreements (though maybe I should put Vander last because of his on-trash penalty ;)).
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 10:01:04 am »
0

I'd put Anna first and Natalie second, other than that I have no major disagreements (though maybe I should put Vander last because of his on-trash penalty ;)).
The Gold is often very useful in Knights games.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 12:33:40 pm »
+2

You should say Sir Michael, aka Sir Jerkface.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2014, 01:25:25 pm »
+1

this is (and also was last time) the list i disagree most with. i legitimately believe that sir vander is the strongest knight, either that or a close second after dame anna, and I really don't understand why people don't see it. Both players buy knights, they kill each other, boom you have a huge advantage. really, getting this guy seems so imporant.

dame anna is an all or nothing thing, sometimes you trash twice and basically won the game, other times it's just useless. but it's rare for any other knight to have that big of an impact.

sir micheal is on the other hand is... pretty bad, really. not the weakest knight, but somehwere below average. i mean, +2$ is generally better than a discard attack, and even more so in knights games, and sylvia is #7.

at least dame josephine is rightfully on the last rank. i also had her at #10 last time, and it was not close. +2 vp is just awful, most of the time you don't keep it and then it does nothing, and if you keep it it's not even that great.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2014, 01:33:06 pm »
0

this is (and also was last time) the list i disagree most with. i legitimately believe that sir vander is the strongest knight, either that or a close second after dame anna, and I really don't understand why people don't see it. Both players buy knights, they kill each other, boom you have a huge advantage. really, getting this guy seems so imporant.

dame anna is an all or nothing thing, sometimes you trash twice and basically won the game, other times it's just useless. but it's rare for any other knight to have that big of an impact.

sir micheal is on the other hand is... pretty bad, really. not the weakest knight, but somehwere below average. i mean, +2$ is generally better than a discard attack, and even more so in knights games, and sylvia is #7.

at least dame josephine is rightfully on the last rank. i also had her at #10 last time, and it was not close. +2 vp is just awful, most of the time you don't keep it and then it does nothing, and if you keep it it's not even that great.

I wouldn't say that Sir Vander is the strongest but I absolutely agree that the Gold is huge when both players are attacking each other.

The hard thing about ranking is that order really does matter.  I will never open Sir Michael or Dame Molly because they are worthless for an initial buy.  However mid-game the value of knights changes as you have different needs in your deck.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2014, 01:48:12 pm »
+1

Natalie and Destry are hugely underrated here; both are nearly always more useful than Molly and Natalie is often the best option.  I don't agree at all with Vander being #1, but it's certainly not useless or anything.  Sir Michael just isn't that effective a lot of the time; it seems brutal on paper, but the handsize attack is rarely important when you have Copper and Estates sitting around for buffers anyway, not to mention it gives you no immediate benefit and goes away if Michael attacks another Knight.

I am also still not convinced Dame Anna should rank this highly.  It's near worthless if you get it late, not reliable as a trasher since it can be removed from your deck, and gets rid of some of your Knight defense if that matters.

Just my two cents, though.  I had Destry at #1, which is probably wrong, but I honestly stand by it. 
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2014, 03:12:16 pm »
0

Sir Vander's problem isn't that Gold is always such a terribly awful card in Knight games (though sometimes it is), but that its only benefit is significantly delayed. Had the card read "When you gain this, gain a Gold." it would have been superb, but the delay makes it incredibly weak. It's why Josephine is last. It's why Martin is weak despite costing significantly less. It's why Bazaar is a better card than Bandit Camp.

Natalie and Destry are hugely underrated here; both are nearly always more useful than Molly and Natalie is often the best option.  I don't agree at all with Vander being #1, but it's certainly not useless or anything.  Sir Michael just isn't that effective a lot of the time; it seems brutal on paper, but the handsize attack is rarely important when you have Copper and Estates sitting around for buffers anyway

The discard attack is really strong. It's the difference between Militia and Chancellor, Woodcutter or Duchess and what stops Followers from being much worse than Witch. I don't see why you necessarily have Coppers and Estates in hand, but even if you do, having to discard Coppers can still hurt you quite a bit.

Quote
I am also still not convinced Dame Anna should rank this highly.  It's near worthless if you get it late, not reliable as a trasher since it can be removed from your deck, and gets rid of some of your Knight defense if that matters.

You rarely get Knights late, and in the mid-game trashing, provided it's not otherwise available, is still strong. The unreliability isn't much of an issue, playing it only once or twice already gives you a sizeable advantage over your opponent, and in case it gets trashed before you're able to play it, all knights except Vander are equivalent. As for your last point... what!? Saying that junk is a defense against Knights is like saying that poverty is a defense against taxes or that death is a cancer cure—all true in a very literal sense, but completely missing the point.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2014, 03:19:50 pm »
0

Sir Vander's problem isn't that Gold is always such a terribly awful card in Knight games (though sometimes it is), but that its only benefit is significantly delayed. Had the card read "When you gain this, gain a Gold." it would have been superb, but the delay makes it incredibly weak.
If it gets trashed before you play it or when you play it, it isn't delayed.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2014, 03:20:53 pm »
0

As for your last point... what!? Saying that junk is a defense against Knights is like saying that poverty is a defense against taxes or that death is a cancer cure—all true in a very literal sense, but completely missing the point.

That's not really true. While not as good a defense as Fortress, Market Square, other Knights, etc., junk (and Provinces) still defend you against Knight attacks. Or rather, trashing your junk makes you more vulnerable to Knights. That doesn't mean that you should never trash your junk in a Knights game. Oftentimes it's worth the cost. But trashing junk is definitely weaker against Knights than it is normally. It's not as high a priority as it otherwise would be.

Sir Vander's problem isn't that Gold is always such a terribly awful card in Knight games (though sometimes it is), but that its only benefit is significantly delayed. Had the card read "When you gain this, gain a Gold." it would have been superb, but the delay makes it incredibly weak.

If it gets trashed before you play it or when you play it, it isn't delayed.

Yes, it is. You still don't see the Gold until two shuffles after buying Sir Vander.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 03:32:02 pm »
0

As for your last point... what!? Saying that junk is a defense against Knights is like saying that poverty is a defense against taxes or that death is a cancer cure—all true in a very literal sense, but completely missing the point.

That's not really true. While not as good a defense as Fortress, Market Square, other Knights, etc., junk (and Provinces) still defend you against Knight attacks. Or rather, trashing your junk makes you more vulnerable to Knights. That doesn't mean that you should never trash your junk in a Knights game. Oftentimes it's worth the cost. But trashing junk is definitely weaker against Knights than it is normally. It's not as high a priority as it otherwise would be.

Yes but as I said this is the same way poverty "defends" you against taxes. It's much better to have your opponent's Knights hit 100% of the time than to have any kind of junk in your deck. Particularly because if you're trashed down and your opponent isn't, you'll be crushing him anyway. Plus you'll be playing most of your Knights each turn and thereby quickly neutralizing his. Trashing is as good and should have as high a priority in games with Knights as in any other game where trashing is good.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 03:33:21 pm by SheCantSayNo »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2014, 03:36:48 pm »
0

Sir Vander's problem isn't that Gold is always such a terribly awful card in Knight games (though sometimes it is), but that its only benefit is significantly delayed. Had the card read "When you gain this, gain a Gold." it would have been superb, but the delay makes it incredibly weak.

If it gets trashed before you play it or when you play it, it isn't delayed.

Yes, it is. You still don't see the Gold until two shuffles after buying Sir Vander.
But the benefit is not as delayed as it would be had, say, Dame Josephine been trashed instead. You'd only see the benefits of the other knights once they've been fished out of the trash, if that ever happens.

All in all, Vander is decent as an opening early knight, as it gives a considerable boost to your deck if it's trashed early.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2014, 03:41:27 pm »
0

As for your last point... what!? Saying that junk is a defense against Knights is like saying that poverty is a defense against taxes or that death is a cancer cure—all true in a very literal sense, but completely missing the point.

That's not really true. While not as good a defense as Fortress, Market Square, other Knights, etc., junk (and Provinces) still defend you against Knight attacks. Or rather, trashing your junk makes you more vulnerable to Knights. That doesn't mean that you should never trash your junk in a Knights game. Oftentimes it's worth the cost. But trashing junk is definitely weaker against Knights than it is normally. It's not as high a priority as it otherwise would be.

Yes but as I said this is the same way poverty "defends" you against taxes. It's much better to have your opponent's Knights hit 100% of the time than to have any kind of junk in your deck. Particularly because if you're trashed down and your opponent isn't, you'll be crushing him anyway. Plus you'll be playing most of your Knights each turn and thereby quickly neutralizing his. Trashing is as good and should have as high a priority in games with Knights as in any other game where trashing is good.

This is a bit of a tangent, but how do you feel about Beggar? Especially its Action effect.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2014, 03:44:08 pm »
0

Yes, it is. You still don't see the Gold until two shuffles after buying Sir Vander.
You don't see the cards you gain with Natalie or unsee the cards you trash with Anna until two shuffles after buying them either.

EDIT: I'd say that trashing is better in games with Knights than it is normally, unless you're trying to ignore Knights. You get to play your Knights more often and you get to choose what to trash instead of having to trash whatever you happen draw with your junk card that you can't trash.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 03:50:05 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 03:48:27 pm »
0

Yes, it is. You still don't see the Gold until two shuffles after buying Sir Vander.
You don't see the cards you gain with Natalie or unsee the cards you trash with Anna until two shuffles after buying them either.

Sure, but you also don't have to trash those Knights to get those effects.

I'm not arguing that Sir Vander is weak, though. He's a great buy when your opponent is going heavy into Knights and you're not. Also, I love using Procession on him, especially with a $6 Action on the board.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 03:58:17 pm »
+1

As for your last point... what!? Saying that junk is a defense against Knights is like saying that poverty is a defense against taxes or that death is a cancer cure—all true in a very literal sense, but completely missing the point.

That's not really true. While not as good a defense as Fortress, Market Square, other Knights, etc., junk (and Provinces) still defend you against Knight attacks. Or rather, trashing your junk makes you more vulnerable to Knights. That doesn't mean that you should never trash your junk in a Knights game. Oftentimes it's worth the cost. But trashing junk is definitely weaker against Knights than it is normally. It's not as high a priority as it otherwise would be.

Yes but as I said this is the same way poverty "defends" you against taxes. It's much better to have your opponent's Knights hit 100% of the time than to have any kind of junk in your deck. Particularly because if you're trashed down and your opponent isn't, you'll be crushing him anyway. Plus you'll be playing most of your Knights each turn and thereby quickly neutralizing his. Trashing is as good and should have as high a priority in games with Knights as in any other game where trashing is good.

This is a bit of a tangent, but how do you feel about Beggar? Especially its Action effect.

Great with Gardens and Duke, awful in almost any other situation. I've used it once or twice as a source of Mercenary fodder and one time in an Apothecary engine which had Counterfeit for +buy, but that's about it. Maybe it can work with Counting House, but I'm skeptical and would only be open to trying it on an otherwise very weak board.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2014, 04:04:40 pm »
0

All in all, Vander is decent as an opening early knight, as it gives a considerable boost to your deck if it's trashed early.

It isn't. While the Gold is obviously much more welcome in the early game than in the mid-late game, early Knights are much less likely to be trashed any time soon due to the low Knight density in both your own and your opponent's deck. And the absence of any on-play bonus is especially detrimental early as it really stunts your growth, and the more often you get Vander in hand before it's finally trashed, the worse this effect.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2014, 04:52:16 pm »
0

this is (and also was last time) the list i disagree most with. i legitimately believe that sir vander is the strongest knight, either that or a close second after dame anna, and I really don't understand why people don't see it. Both players buy knights, they kill each other, boom you have a huge advantage. really, getting this guy seems so imporant.

dame anna is an all or nothing thing, sometimes you trash twice and basically won the game, other times it's just useless. but it's rare for any other knight to have that big of an impact.

sir micheal is on the other hand is... pretty bad, really. not the weakest knight, but somehwere below average. i mean, +2$ is generally better than a discard attack, and even more so in knights games, and sylvia is #7.

at least dame josephine is rightfully on the last rank. i also had her at #10 last time, and it was not close. +2 vp is just awful, most of the time you don't keep it and then it does nothing, and if you keep it it's not even that great.

The thing is, you assume that in every game you would buy knight, it will be a knight battle.
I'm not the most experienced player with knights ; right now i'm even not sure I played more than 15 games with knights. But for me it seems that it's not the case, there are lot of game where one player will go for a few knights while the other player won't, or at least where a player won't be as much interested by knights as his opponent.

That's part of the reasons why I mainly disagree with the list. Josephine is good when you don't have to trash her. Vander is awful if you don't succeed to trash him. Natalie is good (though not the best) in a knight battle, otherwise pretty much useless.
I disagree on both Michael and Bailey.
Michael gives no benefit, and it hurts more than I first expected.
Bailey is nice, but I think Destry is way better. Destry depends on villages, but usually village is one of the reasons to go for knights.
Molly and Anna are both very very good when their power is hard (if not impossible) to get otherwise in the kingdom. Sir martin too, but it's still weaker than the others.

So I would say 1) Destry 2) Molly 3) Bailey. 4) and 5) Michael and Anna (in any order), after that it doesn't really matter ^^
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 04:57:30 pm by brokoli »
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luser

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2014, 06:57:33 pm »
+1

#8 =0 Sir Vander Weighted Average: 21.2% ▼10.1pp / Unweighted Average: 18.7% / Median: 22.2% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 16.2%

Sir Vander aka the On-Trash Gold-gain Knight stayed also on the same rank and is slightly better than Sir Martin. He has the lowest deviation in this list and was voted last 16 times. In the unweighted ranking he is rated one rank lower.

Sir Vander has no special on-play ability what makes him look weak. But if you have only $5 and want a Gold instead, this isn't a bad deal. You can use him to slow your opponent down a little bit and you really don't care if he gets trashed. You converted a $5 cost card into a $6 cost card. He's probably more useful as defense though. Your opponent has to trash a probably better Knight and you get a Gold out of him, a very good deal for you. Also it's possible to use a trash-for-benefit card on him although I think I've never seen that yet.

Try search reports. Here Sir Vander gave winner five gold.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9635.msg306143#msg306143
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 10:18:51 pm »
0

Anna is the best. In games without any other trashing, Anna just dominates, unless she gets killed ASAP.
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serakfalcon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 12:09:56 am »
0

Try search reports. Here Sir Vander gave winner five gold.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9635.msg306143#msg306143

I did that too!

But yeah, I think the militia effect is overrated. Anna can be amazing if there's no trashing, even if you only use her once or twice it still helps trim your deck a little bit. Typically if you're going full knights anyway, you don't really care about losing knights so long as you end up with 1 or 2 more than your opponent. I can't remember if I put Bailey first, but I probably did. I agree that the top 3 are the top 3, just the order might be a little different.
For me, they all have their strengths but I don't buy them because of their strengths, I buy them if I want to go knights and know I can totally destroy my opponents deck if they don't counter.  (I might avoid opening knights if Josephine or Molly is on top, but other than that..)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:15:50 am by serakfalcon »
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AJD

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 03:14:37 am »
+1

Is Josephine a good buy if you have $5 and Hovel in hand on an earlyish turn?
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Davio

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 03:24:19 am »
0

Well, what's the tradeoff?

You could hand Sir/Dame #1/#2 to your opponent by doing so.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2014 Edition: Knights
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2014, 04:01:40 am »
+7

In games where both players go knights:

Sir Vander has won me more games then Dame Anna.
I usually consider Dame Natalie strongest, followed by Dame Sylvia.

In games where I'm the only one... It depends too heavily on the kingdom to say anything meaningful.
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