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Author Topic: DominionStrategy Championship?  (Read 5245 times)

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Polk5440

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DominionStrategy Championship?
« on: November 06, 2013, 12:33:38 pm »
+1

How does the Dominion World Cup impact the chances of there being a 2013 version of the DominionStrategy Championship with set design contest?

I have been building kingdoms all year in anticipation....
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Qvist

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 06:32:51 pm »
+1

I just know that theory hasn't big interest in organizing it himself.
jonts26 and greatexpectations did already many of the organizing last year, but I'm not sure if they will do it again.

greatexpectations

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 09:40:31 am »
+5

i will gladly assist in a similar capacity to last year. i am tempted to take charge of it but for the time being i can't offer that.

the main troubles (in my opinion) is that goko still isn't at isotropic's level for competitive/tournament play of dominion, especially without the extension. the lack of easy access to all (most) cards, the lack of a way to preset turn order, and the connection/service issues all stick out in that area. i can say from experience that small issues get magnified a bit in the higher competitive environments.

i think that before we move forward we should try to get in touch with goko first and see if/where they are willing to help us. unless theory would like to this is something i wouldn't mind doing. i've spoken with them previously for the Q/A sessions as well as regarding last year's tournament.  i would also personally suggest that if it were to happen that we push it back to (at least) a january start. this lets you avoid any issues around the holidays and gives any other events enough time to wrap up.
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Qvist

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 09:58:48 am »
+2

i will gladly assist in a similar capacity to last year. i am tempted to take charge of it but for the time being i can't offer that.

the main troubles (in my opinion) is that goko still isn't at isotropic's level for competitive/tournament play of dominion, especially without the extension. the lack of easy access to all (most) cards, the lack of a way to preset turn order, and the connection/service issues all stick out in that area. i can say from experience that small issues get magnified a bit in the higher competitive environments.

i think that before we move forward we should try to get in touch with goko first and see if/where they are willing to help us. unless theory would like to this is something i wouldn't mind doing. i've spoken with them previously for the Q/A sessions as well as regarding last year's tournament.  i would also personally suggest that if it were to happen that we push it back to (at least) a january start. this lets you avoid any issues around the holidays and gives any other events enough time to wrap up.

Seems like a good idea to get in touch with goko. Especially as they seem to "hide" anyway. I think we could aim to start registration mid-December and hopefully start the tournament mid January (of course only if every concern is smoothed out). If the team cup works well I might be able to help you a bit organizing it if you need help.

lespeutere

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 12:23:43 pm »
0

Mid January would be perfect. The later the better. :)
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Polk5440

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 11:59:28 am »
0

Any suggestions on how to move forward with this?
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greatexpectations

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 12:23:05 pm »
+1

i tried contacting goko a month or two back but i still haven't heard a word. of course, that is not really surprising given the current state of affairs over there. it is really hard for me to imagine a tournament on the scope we are used to having with the present state of goko. all of the connection/playability issues (on top of the set ownership questions) only compound the many smaller issues of running a larger tournament.

short of a 180 from goko, the revival of isotropic, or the emergence of an alternative a large scale online tournament seems (to me anyway) to be out of the question.
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Polk5440

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 12:24:40 pm »
0

i tried contacting goko a month or two back but i still haven't heard a word. of course, that is not really surprising given the current state of affairs over there. it is really hard for me to imagine a tournament on the scope we are used to having with the present state of goko. all of the connection/playability issues (on top of the set ownership questions) only compound the many smaller issues of running a larger tournament.

short of a 180 from goko, the revival of isotropic, or the emergence of an alternative a large scale online tournament seems (to me anyway) to be out of the question.

Hmmmm......
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Kirian

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 12:58:07 pm »
+4

short of a 180 from goko, the revival of isotropic, or the emergence of an alternative a large scale online tournament seems (to me anyway) to be out of the question.

O RLY?

GokoDom is about the same scale in terms of number of matches, the main difference being that in a single-elimination tournament most of the matches are done in the first two rounds.  Sure, Goko has problems, but they're not insurmountable.

 I don't blame you at all if you don't want to run it--I know how much work it takes!  But saying it can't be done on Goko is a bit silly.

Since the question is inevitable: No, I won't step up and run this, as I have troubles with the single elimination format.  But if this doesn't happen, GokoDom 3 will be... soon.
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Polk5440

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2014, 01:05:10 pm »
0

Since the question is inevitable: No, I won't step up and run this, as I have troubles with the single elimination format.  But if this doesn't happen, GokoDom 3 will be... soon.

The only real difference in scale is that there are more people who sign up for the yearly tournament and the kingdom design aspect which takes some back room organizing/testing and a round of submissions.

If there is a design challenged attached to GokoDom (e.g. the last round of Swiss so everyone gets a crack at them or for the semis+ finals), it would be a very good replacement.
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greatexpectations

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2014, 03:13:56 pm »
0

i was trying to avoid the detailed reply, but i should have known better than that!

GokoDom is about the same scale in terms of number of matches, the main difference being that in a single-elimination tournament most of the matches are done in the first two rounds. 

But saying it can't be done on Goko is a bit silly.

- similar scale for total matches, sure. but how those matches are spread makes a difference. who those players are changes things too, and i would wager that GokoDom benefits by pulling more heavily from the more regular forum members.
- the last GokoDom ended what 3-4 months ago? there has been the international tournament in between, but by most accounts the quality and performance of Goko seems to be steadily declining.
- perhaps most importantly, total numbers means far more than total matches when it comes to managing who owns what sets. i said a large scale tournament would be difficult, and i meant it. i don't think that is silly at all. it looks like you had 83 for GokoDom, with 65(?) who had all/most cards. i think it would be very difficult to find ~3.5 times as many willing to play who owned all/most sets. and then what of the people who don't have the sets but want to play? you can try to split them early, but eventually they would be bound to collide. and of course that adds another layer of legwork to consider.

Sure, Goko has problems, but they're not insurmountable.

managing those problems will likely change some things that are what made the original DSC exciting to me in the first place. there will have to be compromises and changes, and at some point you are moving away from what DSC was to another GokoDom variant.

is it technically impossible to pull off? no, i guess not. i just don't see a repeat of the past scale and format given the current state of affairs. i wouldn't mind offering input based on experience (and i'm sure Kirian would gladly chip in as well), but barring the changes mentioned previously i am going to pass on running the show.
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SCSN

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2014, 04:38:48 pm »
0

Since the question is inevitable: No, I won't step up and run this, as I have troubles with the single elimination format.  But if this doesn't happen, GokoDom 3 will be... soon.

Run with it! If this championship was really going to be single-elimination all the way, I don't even want it to happen, at least not if that would entail the much better structured Gokodom to be postponed.
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Polk5440

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2014, 05:28:11 pm »
+1

Since the question is inevitable: No, I won't step up and run this, as I have troubles with the single elimination format.  But if this doesn't happen, GokoDom 3 will be... soon.

Run with it! If this championship was really going to be single-elimination all the way, I don't even want it to happen, at least not if that would entail the much better structured Gokodom to be postponed.

Well, the benefit of having one single-elimination tournament a year was that it allows more casual people to participate since a lot of people would only rather play for n weeks in a row seriously if they have a chance at winning. The larger the numbers of participants (like 256) the harder it is to count on commitments from everyone. Dropouts really do kind of mess with GokoDom's system.

I think that's why the participation levels for the championships is usually so high -- it doesn't really require that much of a commitment unless you are doing really well.

Well, that and the fact that knock-outs give average people more of a chance to win since the best players could get unlucky early.  ;)

I am not against a beefier GokoDom 3, though, as a replacement. I just really would be sad not to see a kingdom design contest (even if it would be more of a problem if people don't own all the cards). Maybe I am the only one.....
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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2014, 10:25:29 pm »
+2

I just really would be sad not to see a kingdom design contest

I think a kingdom design contest for gokodom could probably work for the finals. 

And I am in favor of gokodom III over dominionstrategy championships.  (although I am not sure I would be able to play in either one unfortunately)
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Qvist

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 03:26:01 am »
0

Why not double elimination. The Rats Division last year showed that it seems superior. It also prevents a lot of the problems of single elimination. And I can't see any reason why we can't have DSC and GokoDom.

DSC or GokoDom?
Why not both?
 ;D

yed

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Re: DominionStrategy Championship?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 05:40:49 am »
+1

Why not both?
We can have both, but I would prefer them at different times so that more people participate in both.
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