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Thisisnotasmile

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Snooker
« on: April 24, 2013, 08:14:53 am »
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So I touched on this a while back in my introduction topic and there seemed to be a few other fans around here too. I figured, what better time to start a full thread about the sport than right now?

So... World Championships.

Dechawat Poomjaeng. What a name character! Watched the evening session last night mainly just to see the end of the Maguire - Poomjaeng match and it was definitely worth it. Those 2 frames alone have got me so pumped for the rest of the tournament.

I didn't watch O'Sullivan's first round match, but I'm not really feeling his chances this year. Everyone's bigging him up and making the tournament all about him, but I think it's just going to put too much pressure on him to perform which will cause him to implode at some point. I just don't see how a guy who's played 1 competitive match all season can be favourite to win this.

A lot of big names have dropped in round 1 already. I wouldn't be surprised if there're upsets all the way and some relatively unknown player comes through and wins it. My money (£5 in fact) is on Mark Selby this year, though. His form this season is just... wow.

Who else is watching? Who do you want to see win?
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Davio

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 08:46:17 am »
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I like Snooker, but due to time constraints of all kinds I don't get to watch a lot of it unfortunately.

Ronnie is one of my favorite players due to his sheer talent, not because of his antics even though it spices things up a bit. Even though he didn't play a lot of matches, you can never count him out. Practice and game rhythm are really important though even for Ronnie.

I like Neil Robertson because he sometimes tries crazy ways to get out of snookers and can really jam a ball into a pocket with 100 mph.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 08:48:20 am »
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I backed Neil Robertson at 11/1 the year he won. That was a good year. I won a staggering 11 pounds.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 11:53:22 am »
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Neil Robertson's in trouble. Looking like going 9-8 down in round 1 to Robert Milkins.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2013, 01:14:26 pm »
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Too bad, I like him. I think Selby will win, he is very good this year.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 12:50:41 pm »
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Selby needs a snooker or he's out. This is not good.

Edit: Okay, he's out.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 08:17:54 am »
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Yes, I heard about that. Now we have to predict a new winner. Michael White? Judd Trump?
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 02:08:33 pm »
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Michael White? No way. Ding's going to walk through the bottom half of the draw now. No idea what will happen in the top half though. O'Sullivan, Trump and Murphy could all do it though. It's a shame O'Sullivan vs Carter happened so early this year. I really want Carter to win a world title one day.

I think Ding vs O'sullivan final will go to Ronnie. Ding vs anyone else and he'll do it. If Ding doesn't get to the final, whoever gets there from the top will have an easy world title.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 02:32:32 pm »
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The guess for White was a joke, of course. Ding was quite good, I agree. I think Trump will make it. I like his play, fast and high breaks. In my opinion, the tornament was a bit strange so far. Robertson, Higgins and Selby are out already, and I thought they all had high chances to win. And of course White and Poomjaeng winning their first match against quite good players. Trump vs. Murphy will be interesting.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 09:04:55 am »
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Uh, it looks really bad for Ding.
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Davio

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 09:07:16 am »
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Here's a question for you Snooker afficionados:

How much do you think is overall skill and how much is "form of the day"?
I could imagine that in the top tiers the skill levels are pretty close so the form of the day may be the deciding factor.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2013, 09:21:52 am »
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Yeah, at the top levels it is very much about form on the day. Form can be influenced a lot though, which is why players practise so much leading up to big tournaments and some even have psychologists to help them get into the right frame of mind and think about things the right way. Players who have won on the big stage before find it easier to do again too, because they have the experience. They know what it's like and know what to expect, so they can better prepare themselves for what's to come and concentrate more on their game.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 09:24:15 am »
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I agree to what you have said. Look at Murphy vs. Trump. Both are quite good players, Trump was pretty far behind after the first session but he tied Murphy in the second one.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 10:04:41 am »
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As someone who has no experience with snooker (but a general understanding of the rules), can anyone suggest some interesting games to watch on youtube et al?

EDIT: Scratch that; apparently I have no idea how snooker is played. So maybe some sort of basic overview would be of more use to me.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 10:11:15 am by Drab Emordnilap »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 10:30:04 am »
+1

A match is played on a "Best of X frames" basis, with X usually 5-9 for small tournaments but can be higher for major tournaments. For the world championships the first round is played best of 19, then best of 25 until the semi-finals which are best of 33, and the final is best of 35. It's played in "sessions" of 8 frames at a time, but if a match gets close it the final session could be longer (for example, a world championship first round match that went all the way would be an 8 frame session followed by an 11 frame session).

Each individual frame is played with a set up of 15 red balls, and one each of six colours. There is also a white ball (called the cue ball) which players strike with their 'cue' (aka: stick). You use the cue ball to hit other balls and hopefully "pot" other balls. You probably know all this already so I'm gonna assume you do and move on...

In each frame, the 15 red balls must be potted first. However, whenever a red ball is potted, the player whose turn it is gets one opportunity to pot a "colour" (i.e. not red) as well. If they miss, it's back to red for the opponent. If they pot it, the colour is returned to its spot and they stay on and try to pot another red. Reds are worth 1 point each and the colours are worth 2-7 respectively for yellow, green, brown, blue, pink, black. After all reds are potted, the players must pot the colours in order for their respective values and whoever has the most points wins the frame.

If a player plays a shot against the rules at any point a foul is declared and their opponent is awarded a minimum of 4 points. More points are awarded if the foul was on a ball of value higher than 4. The fouling player's opponent then has the chance to play, but may also opt to let the fouling player play again if the balls lie unfavourably. In certain situations (which I wouldn't worry about at the moment), the non-fouling player can opt to have the balls replaced to where they were before the foul occured, and have their opponent retake the shot.

Any string of pots without the opponent having a shot (i.e. red, black, red, green, red, blue, red, miss) is referred to as a "break". Breaks do not determine the winner of a match but they are spoken about a lot. "Century" breaks are when a player makes a break of 100 or more, and the "Maximum" break is 147 (15 reds followed by blacks, and all colours) and the player who makes the highest break of a tournament is often awarded a special prize, with an additional bonus for anybody who can make a maximum break (they're hard). Big breaks aren't compulsory, but they are crowd pleasing.



And the maximum possible break is actually 155 but I don't think it's ever been done and nobody ever talks about it and it requires a "free ball" which I haven't even mentioned so you should probably just ignore the fact I even mentioned this.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:54:05 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2013, 10:41:39 am »
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As for which you should watch, probably anything that went close. Close matches are more tense and exciting to watch. I wouldn't recommend watching a full 33 frame match as your first though, just the last frame or two should do it. There's also Ronnie O'Sullivan's world record Maximum break in which he clears the table in 5 minues, 20 seconds.

I don't know where you are, but if you can watch the BBC live, then Judd Trump vs Shaun Murphy (World number 3 and 4 respectively, and the two highest ranked players left in this tournament) are locked at 10 - 10 (best of 25) at the moment. They're at the mid session interval (15 minute break) but when they come back they'll be playing a maximum of 5 more frames to decide the winner, and it's going to be good. It's streaming live here.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 10:47:50 am »
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Quote
And the maximum possible break is actually 155 but I don't think it's ever been done and nobody ever talks about it and it requires a "free ball" which I haven't even mentioned so you should probably just ignore the fact I even mentioned this.

Well, Jamie Burnett once scored 148 points, which as far as I know is the highest Break so far. But it is not a maximum break I guess since he did not pot the black ball after every red one.
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Davio

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 01:15:32 pm »
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Well, if you keep getting points from opponent's misses, you can rack them up, no?
There's probably a maximum amount of misses you can have before you concede the frame, but I don't know the number.

Other than that, 147 is pretty amazing. I played a year of competition pool (8- and 9-ball) and was pretty bad. They make it look so easy on TV. And with pool, the balls and pockets are bigger (well it makes sense to have bigger pockets for bigger balls I guess), but it's more forgiving. The pockets especially, you can hit a ball at top speed an inch out of centre on a pool table and it will still go in. Be off by a hair on a snooker table and it's a miss.

It's really hard to gauge how good these players actually are when they're playing each other. If they would play amateurs it would be pretty jaw-dropping how much skill they put on the table.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2013, 01:30:33 pm »
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You can get as many foul points from your opponents, that is true, but these are not added to the points of the break, so the maximum break is still 147/155. The maximum score can be higher, of course.

The maximum amount of fouls is not limited. There will be a miss (if you do not hit the ball and did not give your best according to your abilities) either two times (if there is an easier solution), after that you lose the frame, otherwise there will be a miss until you are that far behind you need foul points yourself to win the frame.
But your opponent will still get the foul points.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2013, 01:32:35 pm »
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It's really hard to gauge how good these players actually are when they're playing each other. If they would play amateurs it would be pretty jaw-dropping how much skill they put on the table.

You definetely see a difference when you watch a wild card match comparing it to a final.
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Davio

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2013, 01:37:57 pm »
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It's really hard to gauge how good these players actually are when they're playing each other. If they would play amateurs it would be pretty jaw-dropping how much skill they put on the table.

You definetely see a difference when you watch a wild card match comparing it to a final.
I guess so, but as is with all sports, good players make it look so easy.
When I see Messi I think "hey, that's not too hard, I can do that", but find myself tripping over my own feet come Saturday.
As I played some cue sport myself I know how hard it is to just pot a single ball, let alone two or clear a table.
This makes me appreciate their skill even more.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2013, 01:57:48 pm »
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That's true, pool is hard enough, but the snooker table is much larger.
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Davio

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2013, 02:12:51 pm »
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That's true, pool is hard enough, but the snooker table is much larger.
Yes, another extra difficulty!

I tried to play a game of snooker once on holiday, but failed horribly to get one red and color combination together. Game lasted forever until we just quit. :)

I do find these ancient European sports intriguing because they often have quirky rules.
Take golf for instance, if your ball is lying in a hole dug by a dog you don't get a free drop, but if it's dug by a rabbit, you do. And so stories have cropped up about people carrying rabbit droppings in their pockets.

In snooker, it's probably a foul to sneeze wrong.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2013, 03:07:35 pm »
+1

That's true, pool is hard enough, but the snooker table is much larger.
Yes, another extra difficulty!

I tried to play a game of snooker once on holiday, but failed horribly to get one red and color combination together. Game lasted forever until we just quit. :)

I do find these ancient European sports intriguing because they often have quirky rules.
Take golf for instance, if your ball is lying in a hole dug by a dog you don't get a free drop, but if it's dug by a rabbit, you do. And so stories have cropped up about people carrying rabbit droppings in their pockets.

In snooker, it's probably a foul to sneeze wrong.

If your sneeze moves a ball on the table, it will be a foul.
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Qvist

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2013, 04:25:50 pm »
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I think my Maximum Break I ever had is 20.  :P

Mr Anderson

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2013, 04:29:23 pm »
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This is not a maximum break but your highest break.  ;)

Trump vs Murphy, what a great match. Probably the best match in this tournament.
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Qvist

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2013, 04:32:53 pm »
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This is not a maximum break but your highest break.  ;)

Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm already celebrating if I can cue in the Black.

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 05:44:59 am »
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Here he goes again with the drama. I used to be a huge Ronnie O'Sullivan fan but seriously, now I wish he'd just stick to his word and quit so the sport can move on.
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DStu

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 05:45:49 am »
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what happened?
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 05:52:56 am »
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"I might quit after this year's world championships. I only came back to play in this one because I need the money"

Says the guy who threatens to quit this time every year and has career earnings of over £6 million.

Edit: Full article
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 05:54:56 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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DStu

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Re: Snooker
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2013, 05:56:39 am »
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Hey, he lost 3 frames in a row, good reason to be a bit upset ;)
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