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[LastFootnote]

http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=448

Jobs, everyone’s worried about jobs. Whatever happened to tilling the fields in obscurity? The economy is just a trick, like stealing someone's nose, but lately people seem to have seen through it, like when you realize someone hasn’t really stolen your nose. So now everyone’s joining a guild, learning a craft, and working on a masterpiece - a painting so beautiful it blinds you, or a cheese grater so amazing that you never eat cheese again. The only people left tilling the fields are the ones doing it ironically. The guilds cover everything - ironic tilling, butchering, baking, candlestick making, shoemaking, cheesemaking, cheese destruction. Your advisor is convinced that somehow, control of the stonecutters is key to world domination. Very well. You will have stone handled so expertly that the world trembles before you.

This is the 8th addition to the game of Dominion. It adds 13 new Kingdom cards to Dominion. It has coin tokens that you can save to spend later, and cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them.

[StrongRhino]

So, money you save for later and cards that do more if you spend more money on them. Sounds great to me.

[LastFootnote]

I wonder if that means you get an on-gain effect if you pay more when you buy them, or if it means you can pay coins when you play them to get an effect. Or something else entirely?

[Jimmmmm]

Hooray!

[Hockey Mask]

It is about flippin time! 

[ashersky]

So tokens that work like how I originally thought Pirate Ship worked.  Cool.

(Yes, I thought you spent tokens...)

[Jimmmmm]

"Release Date: spring"

It's ALREADY Spring. Well, it's Autumn here which means that it's Spring for most of the world. Which means it should be out some time in the next 2 months or so!

[pst]

"Working on a masterpiece". Could that be an alternative win condition?

[SirPeebles]

When Guilds comes out, I'm going to play just base game.  To be ironic.

[Morgrim7]

Oohh…nice.

When Guilds comes out, I'm going to play just base game.  To be ironic.

I think Ill play one with each. Ugh…Alchemy wont be fun.

[Kirian]

It's not often you see a Simpsons reference in a Renaissance themed eurogame.

[SirPeebles]

I thought the same Kirian, although it's possible that Donald just happened to be making the same joke as the simpsons regarding the free masons.

[SirPeebles]

Let's start guessing card names.  I think Stonecutter is likely.

[LastFootnote]

It's not often you see a Simpsons reference in a Renaissance themed eurogame.

Well, it's a Simpsons reference in that it's the same reference used in the Simpsons. If you want to make a joke about masons without actually calling them that, 'stonecutters' is really your best option.

[LastFootnote]

Let's start guessing card names.  I think Stonecutter is likely.

Agreed, especially since we know there was an early card named Stonecutter. No reason not to reuse the name.

[SirPeebles]

I'm curious about the coin tokens.  I wonder if you'll be able to spend them freely during the buy phase, or if you'll need to somehow use a card to spend some.  Or maybe otherwise limited to spending one per turn, or something.

[SirPeebles]

Throne Room: It cost $3 for forever. You could open Feast / Throne Room, some people enjoyed that. You could get it with "Stonecutter," that was significant. Okay I am only going to do 4 pages, so I will not make it to Stonecutter. Stonecutter was "Gain a card costing up to $3, if it's an action play it." You Stonecutter up Throne Rooms and Villages and Woodcutters (once that was around) and then buy "Towers" to rake in points.

Maybe Stonecutter will make a comeback, but this time you need to spend a coin token if you wish to play the Action card?  Anyhow, this is my chance to make ridiculous guesses so that I can look back with shame in a few months.

[AHoppy]

"Working on a masterpiece". Could that be an alternative win condition?

I was thinking this could be the extra cards (there are still extra cards right?) and you have to be the first to do something to get them...

[Tables]

"Release Date: spring"

It's ALREADY Spring. Well, it's Autumn here which means that it's Spring for most of the world. Which means it should be out some time in the next 2 months or so!

It's only three days into Spring though, so up to 3 months really .

[zporiri]

i'm almost certainly reading too much into this, but the description doesn't say that this is the 8th and final addition to Dominion. possibly leaving the door open for more expansion in the future? don x said that this would be the last of the regular expansions

[Watno]

I guess there won't be cards except kingdom cards in there, so we'll have 7 blanks. Still hyped.

[werothegreat]

I guess there won't be cards except kingdom cards in there, so we'll have 7 blanks. Still hyped.

Still don't know that.

And so much for not having any more tokens.  This one will be a little more expensive.

Oh, and I think I just creamed myself with this new information.

[Watno]

It adds 13 new Kingdom cards to Dominion. It has coin tokens that you can save to spend later, and cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them.

I think extra cards would have been mentioned here.
Also it has the same suggested retail price as alchemy and cornucopia

[Tables]

I guess there won't be cards except kingdom cards in there, so we'll have 7 blanks. Still hyped.

7-2*(no. victory cards), so probably more likely 5 or even 3.

[Beyond Awesome]

I can't wait to join the cheese guild. 

EDIT: Also, here is my prediction for this set. I predict 8 of the 13 kingdom cards will be Guilds. My guess is that if you pay the "normal" cost the card goes into your deck. So, for instance there might be a Lab guild which draws 2 cards as an action, but if you pay extra, it stays out like a permanent duration and every turn you gain 1 coin token and maybe draw 1 card because Lab draws cards. I think we will get a very cheap guild that for $3 or so, it stays out and only produces one coin token each turn.

[LastFootnote]

I can't wait to join the cheese guild. 

EDIT: Also, here is my prediction for this set. I predict 8 of the 13 kingdom cards will be Guilds. My guess is that if you pay the "normal" cost the card goes into your deck. So, for instance there might be a Lab guild which draws 2 cards as an action, but if you pay extra, it stays out like a permanent duration and every turn you gain 1 coin token and maybe draw 1 card because Lab draws cards. I think we will get a very cheap guild that for $3 or so, it stays out and only produces one coin token each turn.

I think such a card would have to cost $6. At $3 I'd buy only them until they were gone.

[Beyond Awesome]

I can't wait to join the cheese guild. 

EDIT: Also, here is my prediction for this set. I predict 8 of the 13 kingdom cards will be Guilds. My guess is that if you pay the "normal" cost the card goes into your deck. So, for instance there might be a Lab guild which draws 2 cards as an action, but if you pay extra, it stays out like a permanent duration and every turn you gain 1 coin token and maybe draw 1 card because Lab draws cards. I think we will get a very cheap guild that for $3 or so, it stays out and only produces one coin token each turn.

I think such a card would have to cost $6. At $3 I'd buy only them until they were gone.

Maybe you can only have one of each guild card out at a time or something.

[werothegreat]

I think if permanent effects were being introduced, it would have said so on the box.

[brokoli]

Yeah !

(but the box cover is ugly  )

[Hockey Mask]

150 cards? I am hoping for 150 jobs.

[werothegreat]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

[LastFootnote]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

I believe so.

[WanderingWinder]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

I believe so.

To expand on this, I am pretty sure Donald has been asked this and said there was no planning to get to that number.

[werothegreat]

I think with the overpaying we'll get something like this (obviously this isn't balanced):

Trading Village - Action - $3

+1 Card, +2 Actions
-------
When you buy this, you may pay $1 extra.  If you do, gain a Silver as well.




Factory - Action - $4

+2 card, something something
------
When you buy this, you may pay $2 extra.  If you do, gain an extra copy.

[Kirian]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

I believe so.

To expand on this, I am pretty sure Donald has been asked this and said there was no planning to get to that number.

Man, you'd think he would take credit for ultra-masterful planning or something.

[enfynet]

It has coin tokens that you can save to spend later, and cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them.

Without digging through the secret histories and interviews, I believe I remember Donald mentioning that Witch-esque cards had a "cost to curse" on them. I.E. Spending coins to give curses.  I believe we will see a similar mechanic with this one.

[enfynet]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

I believe so.

To expand on this, I am pretty sure Donald has been asked this and said there was no planning to get to that number.

Man, you'd think he would take credit for ultra-masterful planning or something.

Didn't he mention having something like 200 card ideas when he proposed the idea to RGG? Not nearly all of them survived, but I think he had close to that number for a while.

[Tables]

Not including Promos, there will be 200 kingdom cards with the release of Guilds.  Coincidence?

Now I might have counted wrong, but assuming I haven't... was it intentional to have exactly 200 kingdom cards after Guilds is out, excluding promos?

You have counted correctly. It was not intentional. The large sets are 25 cards so if there were eight it would naturally be 200 for all of them and not seem special. Instead one was split into 12/13, and then there is no 12 to go with Guilds' 13, but Dark Ages has an extra 10 and as it happens two of the 25-card sets actually got 26.

If the "no-one possibly needs a placeholder card for Copper" technology had been around earlier, there would be 1-2 more cards, and Dark Ages might have had a few more or less depending on what happened with the cards that eat up the extra space.

[Jimmmmm]

"Release Date: spring"

It's ALREADY Spring. Well, it's Autumn here which means that it's Spring for most of the world. Which means it should be out some time in the next 2 months or so!

It's only three days into Spring though, so up to 3 months really .

Oh yeah I forgot you do it weirdly over there.

[GendoIkari]

I'm really curious about how it will track how much you spent on "pay more for more" cards.

Funny that fan cards have used both of the mechanics being introduced here!

[LastFootnote]

I'm really curious about how it will track how much you spent on "pay more for more" cards.

Funny that fan cards have used both of the mechanics being introduced here!

I'm guessing the card itself won't change. It'll be an optional on-buy effect, perhaps?

[GendoIkari]

I'm really curious about how it will track how much you spent on "pay more for more" cards.

Funny that fan cards have used both of the mechanics being introduced here!

I'm guessing the card itself won't change. It'll be an optional on-buy effect, perhaps?

Yeah, I think you and Wero are correct... a one-time effect makes a lot more sense.

[Tables]

"Release Date: spring"

It's ALREADY Spring. Well, it's Autumn here which means that it's Spring for most of the world. Which means it should be out some time in the next 2 months or so!

It's only three days into Spring though, so up to 3 months really .

Oh yeah I forgot you do it weirdly over there.

Weirdy? Starting spring at the spring equinox is weird? What do you do over in... was about to say US but the comment makes that obviously not the case. Australia?

[GendoIkari]

"Release Date: spring"

It's ALREADY Spring. Well, it's Autumn here which means that it's Spring for most of the world. Which means it should be out some time in the next 2 months or so!

It's only three days into Spring though, so up to 3 months really .

Oh yeah I forgot you do it weirdly over there.

Weirdy? Starting spring at the spring equinox is weird? What do you do over in... was about to say US but the comment makes that obviously not the case. Australia?

It's Fall there I believe... all the seasons in the southern hemisphere are reverse from the northern. They have summer in December, etc.

[Jimmmmm]

Autumn starts on March 1 etc.

[WanderingWinder]

Autumn starts on March 1 etc.

March 1? Now that is weird. Shouldn't it be on an equinox?

[werothegreat]

Autumn starts on March 1 etc.

March 1? Now that is weird. Shouldn't it be on an equinox?

Not necessarily.  It would make more sense for "midwinter" to actually be in the middle of winter.

[Tables]

Yeah, March 1st is pretty odd... at the very least, one would expect January/April/July/October for season starts.

Midwinter and midsummer are really just bad names.

[WanderingWinder]

Autumn starts on March 1 etc.

March 1? Now that is weird. Shouldn't it be on an equinox?

Not necessarily.  It would make more sense for "midwinter" to actually be in the middle of winter.

A couple things about this. First, you are talking solstice, whilst I was talking equinox. Not super relevant. Second, 'midwinter' is a day which has colloquially been applied to the day on which the solstice occurred, but I certainly wasn't advocating such a term, nor do solstices need to be tied to them by any means. Third, it's a semantic argument - I mean, what defines winter? One could argue that winter is defined such that the astronomical event stands in the middle of the season. Or you could talk about it being cold. So, the thing you have to remember is that whilst the days get shorter or longer in relation to the movement of the sun, the shortest day of the year is not the coldest (well, rarely it is by fluke, but...). It's the same reason that the hottest part of a day is generally in the afternoon, and not at noon. It may be maximally heating at noon, but it continues to heat up for a bit afterwards.

YMMV

[Watno]

It's 150 cards. All cards not used for kingdom cards or their randomizers are blank.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/951319/how-many-cards-in-this-one

[Watno]

Does anyone remember what exactly Donald said about cards that allow you to play treasure in your action phase? Did it imply that that's not what this expansion will have? It's what I'd expect if he didn't.

[Kirian]

Autumn starts on March 1 etc.

March 1? Now that is weird. Shouldn't it be on an equinox?

Not necessarily.  It would make more sense for "midwinter" to actually be in the middle of winter.

A couple things about this. First, you are talking solstice, whilst I was talking equinox. Not super relevant. Second, 'midwinter' is a day which has colloquially been applied to the day on which the solstice occurred, but I certainly wasn't advocating such a term, nor do solstices need to be tied to them by any means. Third, it's a semantic argument - I mean, what defines winter? One could argue that winter is defined such that the astronomical event stands in the middle of the season. Or you could talk about it being cold. So, the thing you have to remember is that whilst the days get shorter or longer in relation to the movement of the sun, the shortest day of the year is not the coldest (well, rarely it is by fluke, but...). It's the same reason that the hottest part of a day is generally in the afternoon, and not at noon. It may be maximally heating at noon, but it continues to heat up for a bit afterwards.

Also remember that the Celtic culture, from whom we originally took the terms midsummer and midwinter, reckoned the seasons differently, with the feast days that they (and neopagans) called Samhain (the origin of Halloween), Imbolc (the origin of, of all things, Groundhog Day), Beltane ( related to May Day) and Lughnasa (near 01 August) being the start of their seasons.  In that context, Midsummer (summer solstice, ~20 June) is very close to the actual middle of summer (15 June by this reckoning).  Many other European cultures of the middle ages reckoned the season in the same way.  Some in China, Japan, and Korea reckon the seasons similarly, though with the season changes falling somewhere between the 5th and the 10th of each month, making the summer solstice even closer to midsummer.

Meanwhile, meteorologists use yet a different definition, the one Jimmmmm was talking about: spring starts on 01 March, summer on 01 June, and so on.

Meanwhile meanwhile, temperatures in ANZ and southern S. America, due to their climates, have hot seasons that start earlier--hence, they usually use 01 June for the start of summer.

So, to recap:

~01 May: start of summer in the Middle Ages and neopaganism
~05 May: start of summer in parts of SE Asia
01 June: start of summer for meteorologists and ANZ residents
~20 June: start of summer for astronomers, North Americans, and most Europeans; traditionally, midsummer.

[enfynet]

It's 150 cards. All cards not used for kingdom cards or their randomizers are blank.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/951319/how-many-cards-in-this-one

He doesn't say how many. It could be anything from 0-7 based on what we know about Kingdom Cards.

[eHalcyon]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

[Watno]

It's 150 cards. All cards not used for kingdom cards or their randomizers are blank.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/951319/how-many-cards-in-this-one

He doesn't say how many. It could be anything from 0-7 based on what we know about Kingdom Cards.

But it does mean that there will be nothing like a "goal card".

[werothegreat]

It's 150 cards. All cards not used for kingdom cards or their randomizers are blank.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/951319/how-many-cards-in-this-one

He doesn't say how many. It could be anything from 0-7 based on what we know about Kingdom Cards.

But it does mean that there will be nothing like a "goal card".

I was about to say "why do we need more blanks?" but I actually used a blank the other day when I discovered I was missing a Smithy.     So I took a blank and wrote "smithy" on it.

[Kirian]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

[eHalcyon]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

Farther north, in Alberta.

[A Drowned Kernel]

With the whole coin token thing, I'm thinking we're going to get a number of cards that are very "simple", which is interesting. If all the rules for how the coins work is in the rulebook, you can have an action card that's just like "+1 coin token" or something.

[Beyond Awesome]

With the whole coin token thing, I'm thinking we're going to get a number of cards that are very "simple", which is interesting. If all the rules for how the coins work is in the rulebook, you can have an action card that's just like "+1 coin token" or something.

I doubt we will get many simple cards, 3 at most would be my guess. Donald has already stated Guilds is the most complex expansion ever.

[werothegreat]

Well, it's less complex than Cornucopia, at least in terms of code on iso, though that might just be the Prizes bumping Cornucopia up.

[cactus]

http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=448

Jobs, everyone’s worried about jobs. Whatever happened to tilling the fields in obscurity? The economy is just a trick, like stealing someone's nose, but lately people seem to have seen through it, like when you realize someone hasn’t really stolen your nose. So now everyone’s joining a guild, learning a craft, and working on a masterpiece - a painting so beautiful it blinds you, or a cheese grater so amazing that you never eat cheese again. The only people left tilling the fields are the ones doing it ironically. The guilds cover everything - ironic tilling, butchering, baking, candlestick making, shoemaking, cheesemaking, cheese destruction. Your advisor is convinced that somehow, control of the stonecutters is key to world domination. Very well. You will have stone handled so expertly that the world trembles before you.

This is the 8th addition to the game of Dominion. It adds 13 new Kingdom cards to Dominion. It has coin tokens that you can save to spend later, and cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them.

There are a few good lines in this blurb.... now if only Goko had hired the guy who wrote this to write the script for the adventures. 

[dondon151]

Donald X. writes the descriptions.

[SirPeebles]

Kirian's talk of Celtic pagan astronomy reminded me of this recent comic from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal.  It also fits in with this thread's cheese subtheme.

[eHalcyon]

Always include the extra!

[Archetype]

The "coins used later" reminds me of a fan card I saw a long time ago.

It went something like:

Orchard?
Cost: 5
Treasure

$2
Whenever you gain a card while this card is in play, put a Fruit Token on your Basket Mat.

FAQ: Fruit Tokens can be spent during your Buy Phase for +1$.

I thought it was a really cool idea, and am excited that it's becoming the theme for an expansion! Thanks LastFootnote!

[Davio]

I think strings of €7 Duchies are pretty annoying, so looks like help is on the way

[philosophyguy]

So on the overpaying theme, what about a card like (not balanced):

Super Village - $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When you buy this card, if you pay at least $2 more than the cost, you may play an additional Action card immediately.

[LastFootnote]

So on the overpaying theme, what about a card like (not balanced):

Super Village - $3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When you buy this card, if you pay at least $2 more than the cost, you may play an additional Action card immediately.

I think playing an Action card during the buy phase is unlikely.

[philosophyguy]

I think playing an Action card during the buy phase is unlikely.

Well, it would certainly add a new strategic depth to terminal draw. If you draw an action dead, you can overpay for your village and still play it.

[ftl]

It seems plausible. Would have to be phrased differently - "go back to your action phase, +1 action" or something like that. That way you're not playing an action during your buy phase, you're just going back to your action phase. (As it is, if you just played an action during your buy phase, that would probably be unhelpful, since you wouldn't be able to play any more actions OR play any more treasures, since you've already bought a card).

[ftl]

In general, I bet the formula of

[vanilla-ish card]
When you buy this, you may spend [$x] extra;
if you do, [on-buy effect]

will be used more than once. You have a wide selection of standard on-buy effects to stick on to there. A card with an on-buy Navigator ability? An on-buy Scheme? an on-buy  trasher? I think Donald has previously said that an on-buy Militia was tried out and was hated, so we won't see that. Or of course more exotic stuff like the return-to-action-phase, or saving up coins to spend later.

[eHalcyon]

It seems plausible. Would have to be phrased differently - "go back to your action phase, +1 action" or something like that. That way you're not playing an action during your buy phase, you're just going back to your action phase. (As it is, if you just played an action during your buy phase, that would probably be unhelpful, since you wouldn't be able to play any more actions OR play any more treasures, since you've already bought a card).

What world that mean for the buy phase then? When you finish your action phase the second time, would you be able to play more treasure? Do you automatically get another buy, or only if you played a +buy
Going back to the action phase still adds a lot of rules weirdness. It's possible, but still unlikely, imo.

[SirPeebles]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

This also raises the question of cost balancing with overpaying bonuses.  On-gain/on-buy bonuses demand a premium, perhaps the clearest examples being cards like Nomad Camp, Border Village, and Cache which are virtually identical to differently priced cards if you disregard the on-gain bonus/penalty.  Does there need to be any such price adjustment for an overpaying bonus?  My guess is no.

Cheese Destroyers Guild
$3 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $2 extra you may trash a card from your hand.

[werothegreat]

Cheese Destroyers Guild
$3 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $2 extra you may trash a card from your hand.

This makes my head hurt because it's strictly better than Village, but not.

[SirPeebles]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

[werothegreat]

Or maybe this is actually also the Seaside second expansion in disguise, and the coin token cards are also Durations, and you put the coin tokens on them while they stay out.  Like Haven!

[Awaclus]

The problem with playing an action in the buy phase is:

What do you do with an action played in the buy phase? Draw more dead actions, and what's more, dead coins too! Alternatively, you might get +Actions that you can't use, or virtual coins that you can't use unless there is a buy left, or trashing that doesn't trash your coppers because they are in play. Attack cards and gainers are only slightly weaker than normally and Tactician is OP.

[SirPeebles]

The problem with playing an action in the buy phase is:

What do you do with an action played in the buy phase? Draw more dead actions, and what's more, dead coins too! Alternatively, you might get +Actions that you can't use, or virtual coins that you can't use unless there is a buy left, or trashing that doesn't trash your coppers because they are in play. Attack cards and gainers are only slightly weaker than normally and Tactician is OP.

If Smithy is the only action card in your hand, then don't spend the extra money to play an action.  Not really seeing a huge issue with that.  Tactician is rather strong though, even moreso than with Black Market.  However if one player goes Double Tac, you can really pull the rug out from under him or her by emptying this hypothetical kingdom pile.

[LastFootnote]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

It's plausible that coin tokens are just accumulated without a mat. Certainly, if I have a bunch of coin tokens just sitting in front of me on the table, I would guess that they'd be used as coins to buy cards. Pirate Ship is really the odd one out; it uses coin tokens for a specific purpose. The Pirate Ship mat is necessary to differentiate those tokens from the ones you can spend.

[Beyond Awesome]

Or, maybe they learned from market research players weren't using mats all that much. They are nice and all, but with VP tokens for instance, you don't really need a mat to keep track of them.

[LastFootnote]

Or, maybe they learned from market research players weren't using mats all that much. They are nice and all, but with VP tokens for instance, you don't really need a mat to keep track of them.

I find those quite useful, actually. Prosperity comes with exactly 16 1VP tokens. Assuming you have no more than 4 players, that's enough for each player to have 4 of them. That's exactly how many you need; if you have 4 on your mat and you get more, you just use a 5VP token. So when we play with Monument, Bishop, or Goons, I put the 5VP tokens in a communal pile, but I give 4 1VP tokens to each player up-front. They put them on the mat as they accumulate VP and take them off when they get to a multiple of 5.

[ftl]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

[liopoil]

So when we play with Monument, Bishop, or Goons, I put the 5VP tokens in a communal pile, but I give 4 1VP tokens to each player up-front. They put them on the mat as they accumulate VP and take them off when they get to a multiple of 5.

That's a great idea. I realized that they put the bare minimum, 16, but hadn't thought of doing that...

[ftl]

  Does there need to be any such price adjustment for an overpaying bonus?  My guess is no.

Cheese Destroyers Guild
$3 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $2 extra you may trash a card from your hand.

My guess would be yes, there needs to be a price adjustment. Not because of power level, but just to avoid the situation where people are buying Cheese Destroyers Guild for $3 when village is available for no reason besides because why not. Like, if both Village and CDG are on the board, you don't want a situation where somebody has $3, wants village, and just spends the buy on CDG instead because there's no reason not to. I think instead there'll be a situation where if you DON'T use the extra effect, the card will be a little overpriced for what it does -


Cheese Destroyers Guild
$4 Action

+1 Card
+2 Actions

When you buy this, if you spend $1 extra you may trash a card from your hand.


Still buyable because sometimes you just want a village and you're willing to pay $4, but when both CDG AND Village are on the board, there'll be an interesting decision as to what to buy when you have $4 - do you want to deplete the pile which has an extra ability or the cheaper pile?

[heron]

Cheese Destroyers' Guild
$5 Action
+2 Cards, +1 Buy, +$1
When you buy this, you may destroy any amount of cheese (like, real cheese).
+1 vp per pound of cheese destroyed.

[werothegreat]

Cheese Destroyers' Guild
$5 Action
+2 Cards, +1 Buy, +$1
When you buy this, you may destroy any amount of cheese (like, real cheese).
+1 vp per pound of cheese destroyed.

But not Kraft.

[ftl]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

Oh man, I just changed my mind.

This is the same problem as with "gain a card from the trash". Before Dark Ages, "gain a card from the trash" would have been a terrible ability, useful only for niche combos, because most of the time, there's nothing in the trash worth gaining. Graverobber and Rogue both fixed this by themselves creating ways for useful stuff to be trashed, thus guaranteeing that in a game with one of them, there's useful stuff in the trash to be gained.

So this hypothetical play-an-action-card-from-your-hand would just have to do the same thing - it would have to be a card which is useful when played from hand after you've already bought something. And then that would solve the niche-ness problem.

[Ozle]

I seriously hope they are not slapstick names like Cheese Destroyers...

Also, I wonder if they were reading our thread about the cheese and were worried we knew something....

[ktartandude]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

[GendoIkari]

Donald said over on BGG that there will probably not be mats.  What does that tell us about the coin tokens?  Usually there's a mat to go with any tokens or cards which are set aside long term.  Embargo tokens are the only ones without mats, since they sit on supply piles.  Maybe coin tokens will therefore also be attached to piles, rather than accumulated by players?

I'm pretty sure that this tells us that you will put the coins on a set-aside Kingdom card.

[WinterSpartan]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

Farther north, in Alberta.

I was going to say the exact same thing as Kirian though. Those are definitely the Michigan seasons. (Well, between Winter and Road Construction, there's That One Really Warm Week in March and then Winter again, but eh.)

[liopoil]

...I'm still waiting for that one really warm week in march...

[eHalcyon]

If you go by temperature, my spring won't start for another month or so.

Also, we don't have summer.  We have road construction/repair.

Michigan I assume?

(Down here just south of the MI border, we also have Michigan seasons.)

Farther north, in Alberta.

I was going to say the exact same thing as Kirian though. Those are definitely the Michigan seasons. (Well, between Winter and Road Construction, there's That One Really Warm Week in March and then Winter again, but eh.)

In Ontario:



And in Alberta:





 

[Beyond Awesome]

Where I live, it is summer 80% of the year, it seems. I love California.

[clb]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

It isn't quite that simple - clean-up is where you draw your 5 cards, so you would have to deliberately leave stuff unplayed. Or, perhaps it is the zombie village which lets you play actions that were drawn dead. Or the necromancer village? But since it is job-themed, the coroner's village? It would have to combo well with Necropolis, though...

[SirPeebles]

I think playing an Action during your buy phase like this is OK.  Certainly preferable to warping back to the Action phase temporarily.  Unless there's some broken interaction that I'm missing.

Well, most actions wouldn't work the way is intuitive. Since you've already bought a card, you couldn't play any more treasures if you drew them with that action you played. And unless you had some source of +Buy, you wouldn't be able to buy anything new if you played something for coins because you've already bought a card. Nearly all actions played during the buy phase after you've already bought a card are actually useless - it would be a very niche ability, useful only for a few weird combos, and just sitting there tripping people up in all the other cases.

I was envisioning going back to the action phase, starting with 1 action, and then continuing on to a new buy phase as normal, etc. Dunno,  It just seems like "play an action card during your buy phase" gives rise to lots of weird unintuitive cases that don't work the way people would think, whereas "go back to your action phase and then continue as normal" would work pretty much as intended.

Though perhaps both of these are too far out, and we'll get far simpler things than that. After all, instead of "play an action" the card could just have an on-buy ability which is equivalent to something typically found on an action.

With this whole 'play another action card from your hand' thing, it could work much more cleanly if it were phrased more like:-
$3 Super village
+1 card
+2 actions
When you buy this, you may pay $2 more. If you do, skip your clean-up phase and play another turn after this one.

It isn't quite that simple - clean-up is where you draw your 5 cards, so you would have to deliberately leave stuff unplayed. Or, perhaps it is the zombie village which lets you play actions that were drawn dead. Or the necromancer village? But since it is job-themed, the coroner's village? It would have to combo well with Necropolis, though...

I think that's entirely the point.  The whole idea is to play Action cards that are leftover in your hand, after all.   There seems to be no intention of discarding and drawing new cards.

[enfynet]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect. 

[SirPeebles]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect.

What does that mean?

[werothegreat]

I love how these threads always get hijacked by something.

[NoMoreFun]

I know it's a Simpsons reference, but could Donald X be referencing "Hommer Simpson"?

[andwilk]

I was really hoping that the extra blank cards would instead be unique "guilds" which would add a game state or permanent condition to the game.  Using these cards would follow the same rules as using Platinum/Colonies and Shelters.

For example (not necessarily fully thought out for balance/viability):

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.
Farmer's Guild - Trash a card from your hand when you gain a Victory card.
Chaos Guild - Add 4 kingdom piles to the supply.  Remove 3 cards from each kingdom card supply pile.  The end-game condition for empty piles is increased by 1.

[Tables]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

[achmed_sender]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

[werothegreat]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

With a Watchtower/Trader in hand.

[eHalcyon]

Tax Collector Guild- Gain a curse when you gain a Treasure card.

Or play KC-Beggar....

With a Watchtower/Trader in hand.

Insanity Wolf would gladly top deck all those curses.

[andwilk]

Like I said, not fully thought out "guild card" ideas.  I guess it doesn't make so much sense for the tax collector to care if you are gaining a Copper.  It would be better if you gained a curse only when gaining a Treasure costing more than $0.

Happy now? 

[enfynet]

I really think the "wheb buy-spend more" sounds too awkward to be of any use. I think it will just be a cost-activated effect.

What does that mean?

Sorry, was using my ipod.

Action
Effect
-----
When you buy this, you may spend/pay $ more... If you do, then stuff happens

It just feels clunky.

Besides, then "when buy/gain" thing happened in Hinterlands. I think if these have bonus effects, using tokens, it will be something that happens in the Action phase and not the buy phase.

[ftl]

Well, the thing is, for that to happen there needs to be some way to keep track of whether you spent more for a card.

Like, a card that says "you can spend more to buy this... if you do, it has extra effects when you play it" would not work as is because it'll get shuffled into your deck and you'll have no way of knowing or tracking whether you paid more for it.

So I think any later effect would have to be of the form "when you buy this, [something happens to mark how much you paid for it]". But I don't see a good way of doing that without a mat, and we know there aren't any mats.

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

[ednever]

Well, the thing is, for that to happen there needs to be some way to keep track of whether you spent more for a card.

Like, a card that says "you can spend more to buy this... if you do, it has extra effects when you play it" would not work as is because it'll get shuffled into your deck and you'll have no way of knowing or tracking whether you paid more for it.

So I think any later effect would have to be of the form "when you buy this, [something happens to mark how much you paid for it]". But I don't see a good way of doing that without a mat, and we know there aren't any mats.

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

Agreed. I see three types of cards:

Type 1
When you buy this, you may pay more. If you do, [some effect] (cards get trashed, other players get attacked, cards get remodeled, you get an extra buy, etc)

Type 2
When you play this [something happens]. You may use a token to make [something else happen].
When you buy this you may pay extra for a token(s)
And/or: when this card is in play you may buy a token
And/or: setup rules: when this card is in the kingdom player may buy tokens
And/or: when you play this, gain a token

Type 3
When you play this, gain a token, and something else
When you buy this you may spend a token to have something happen.

----
What neat about all this is that it looks like there is one type of token - which means, like potion cards- there are synergies with having more than one guilds card in a kingdom.
(Earn tokens with card x, spend them with card y)

Ed

[eHalcyon]

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

As I was reading your comment I came up with this... and then I got to this line.  Now I wonder if I actually thought of it myself, or if it was just my subconscious reading ahead. 

[LastFootnote]

It could be that you can just pay extra and get coin tokens, and then the card would have a way of using coin tokens.

Man, I hope not. I just started creating cards with this mechanic.

[bedlam]

How about...

When this card is in play, for each turn it is not discarded during your clean up phase place a coin on it. You may spend the tokens at any time during your action phase.
1 coin = +1card/+1 action
2 coins = +2 actions\+1 buy
3coins = +2 cards/+1 action/+2 money
When you spend the coins place the card on your discard pile.
...
Or something like that.

[Davio]

One way of solving the problem at hand with overspending coins is as follows:

Safe - Action

While this is in play, when you buy a card, you may spend up to $3 extra for it.
If you do, set aside this card with a token for every extra $ spent this way.
---------------------
During your buy phase you may spend any amount of tokens from this card.
If you do: +$1 for every token you spend.
At the start of Clean-up, if there are no more tokens on this card, discard it.


Granted, the wording is a bit awkward at some points, but I'm just trying to convey an idea here.

The idea is of course that it functions like a Haven and sort of becomes its own mat.

[NoMoreFun]

I think coin tokens will be oneshot +$1 that you can use any buy phase after you gain them.

The thing is, with these tokens, you can actually get money when it isn't your action/buy phase

You can have effects like

"+1 coin token for each other player"
"When you gain/trash this, +1 coin token"
"While this is in play, when you gain a card, +1 coin token"
"When you're attacked, reveal and discard this for 2 coin tokens"

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

[NoMoreFun]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

The extra 6 cards!

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

The extra 6 cards!

So the cards are faux mats? 

[SirPeebles]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Not only Seaside, but Prosperity too.

[Davio]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Not only Seaside, but Prosperity too.

Yes, Trade Route and the VP Tokens also have mats.

[Beyond Awesome]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

I think they could actually get away without having mats even if Prosperity and Seaside came with them. You never know.

[jbrecken]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

It could be something like when you gain a token you just put it on your discard pile, and when it's time for a shuffle you stand the cards up and let the tokens fall out and move them into your play area.

Or for a similar effect but with less mess, you could set the first card you discard aside and use it as a place to collect tokens and then when it's time to shuffle they go into your play area.  That would mean you don't actually gain tokens until cleanup.

[werothegreat]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

It could be something like when you gain a token you just put it on your discard pile, and when it's time for a shuffle you stand the cards up and let the tokens fall out and move them into your play area.

Or for a similar effect but with less mess, you could set the first card you discard aside and use it as a place to collect tokens and then when it's time to shuffle they go into your play area.  That would mean you don't actually gain tokens until cleanup.

Or just dump the tokens in front of you.  Either or.

[Ozle]

Aaah, but where would you keep the tokens if not on a mat?

They need to be kept on a card I think, otherwise it's so out of style with Seaside.

Looks like Donald has been stealing ideas!

[shraeye]

yes!! guilds!!

[Matt_Arnold]

I am so relieved. When the cards I play-tested were not in Hinterlands (where they seemed to belong), I worried they had been rejected and we would never see them. The mechanic "when you gain this, for each coin you over-spend, do x effect" is a lot of fun. It's great to finally be able to talk about it. Until the actual cards are published, that's all I can actually say, but still.

[Davio]

I'm glad that after the grim dark ages we can finally start having fun again. 

[Drab Emordnilap]

The mechanic "when you gain this, for each coin you over-spend, do x effect"

I don't think this had been confirmed before just now to be how the mechanic works. Unless I missed previous clarification.

[Watno]

Well considering that such cards were playtested, it seems likely

[LastFootnote]

Well considering that such cards were playtested, it seems likely

Oh, quit boohooing. I don't know why you're so sure you won't like the mechanic. I think it's going to feel quite different than the on-gain and on-buy we're used to.

The mechanic "when you gain this, for each coin you over-spend, do x effect"

I don't think this had been confirmed before just now to be how the mechanic works. Unless I missed previous clarification.

It's the simplest way to interpret the description on the RGG site. Some folks just assumed that that couldn't be it (too close to Hinterlands) and tried to think of other mechanics that the blurb could be describing.

Cheer up, Watno! Butcher is more or less what you're looking for, if that Dutch site can be believed. So there's at least one card that allows you to spend extra when you play it for an additional effect.

[WheresMyElephant]

So for wild unfounded speculation's sake, how do we think these new mechanics will play in practice? My thoughts:

* +Buy will become less important, or at least face competition, since now you can cheerfully use your leftover cash on other things without the effort of picking up a Woodcutter or whatever. $2 cards may also face competition, although I bet we see an "overpay to gain another card" card which functions along the lines of "when you buy this +1 Buy"

* Cards that often lead to overpaying get stronger. I'm looking at Spoils, maybe Death Cart (although that's quite severe overpayment), Platinum (likewise) and probably some others.

* Planning is in, improvising is out of style (relatively speaking of course). You don't have to worry quite so much about shuffle luck since overpaying for the card you wanted won't hurt so much, and coin tokens obviously afford a measure of control over your cashflow, especially if they're available early.

[werothegreat]

So for wild unfounded speculation's sake, how do we think these new mechanics will play in practice? My thoughts:

* +Buy will become less important, or at least face competition, since now you can cheerfully use your leftover cash on other things without the effort of picking up a Woodcutter or whatever. $2 cards may also face competition, although I bet we see an "overpay to gain another card" card which functions along the lines of "when you buy this +1 Buy"

* Cards that often lead to overpaying get stronger. I'm looking at Spoils, maybe Death Cart (although that's quite severe overpayment), Platinum (likewise) and probably some others.

* Planning is in, improvising is out of style (relatively speaking of course). You don't have to worry quite so much about shuffle luck since overpaying for the card you wanted won't hurt so much, and coin tokens obviously afford a measure of control over your cashflow, especially if they're available early.

Bear in mind that all of this is only relevant if one of the 13 Guilds cards is present in the kingdom.  If all 13 of the Guilds cards even have the "pay more" mechanic.

[GendoIkari]

So for wild unfounded speculation's sake, how do we think these new mechanics will play in practice? My thoughts:

* +Buy will become less important, or at least face competition, since now you can cheerfully use your leftover cash on other things without the effort of picking up a Woodcutter or whatever. $2 cards may also face competition, although I bet we see an "overpay to gain another card" card which functions along the lines of "when you buy this +1 Buy"

* Cards that often lead to overpaying get stronger. I'm looking at Spoils, maybe Death Cart (although that's quite severe overpayment), Platinum (likewise) and probably some others.

* Planning is in, improvising is out of style (relatively speaking of course). You don't have to worry quite so much about shuffle luck since overpaying for the card you wanted won't hurt so much, and coin tokens obviously afford a measure of control over your cashflow, especially if they're available early.

Bear in mind that all of this is only relevant if one of the 13 Guilds cards is present in the kingdom.  If all 13 of the Guilds cards even have the "pay more" mechanic.

Which I'd say it's a safe bet that they won't. Alchemy had cards without Potion in the cost. Hinterlands had cards without an on-Gain effect. Seaside had non-Durations. Etc.

[LastFootnote]

I'm guessing we'll see 5 cards with the pay-more mechanic.

[CG19]

This is just a tweak on Davio's "Safe" card. It functions very similarly (except with the cool card-as-a-mat part) but with a useful on-gain effect:

Investment - Action

$2
+1 Action

When you buy or play this, for each coin you didn't spend this turn, place on a coin token on your coin mat.

----------------------------------------------

And the rules would of course state that you can spend coin tokens during any consequntial buy phase. This would even help deal with the 5/2 split (if you don't start with identical hands, of course).

So if you start with $4 and buy Investment you will have 2 coin tokens on your mat and next turn you can buy something up to $5, and the same with a $3 start. Overall, this will help with bad luck draws and when you it's pivotal to reach $5 or $6.

[LastFootnote]

This is just a tweak on Davio's "Safe" card. It functions very similarly (except with the cool card-as-a-mat part) but with a useful on-gain effect:

Investment - Action

$2
+1 Action

When you buy or play this, for each coin you didn't spend this turn, place on a coin token on your coin mat.

----------------------------------------------

And the rules would of course state that you can spend coin tokens during any consequntial buy phase. This would even help deal with the 5/2 split (if you don't start with identical hands, of course).

So if you start with $4 and buy Investment you will have 2 coin tokens on your mat and next turn you can buy something up to $5, and the same with a $3 start. Overall, this will help with bad luck draws and when you it's pivotal to reach $5 or $6.

How does this work when you play it? How do you know at the time which coins you haven't spent that turn?

[Qvist]

Nothing really big, but RGG just released a High Resolution image of the box: http://riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=1763

... still ugly.

[werothegreat]

Nothing really big, but RGG just released a High Resolution image of the box: http://riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=1763

... still ugly.

That's... very magenta.  I think the red may be a little high in this picture (note the red shadows on their hair and such) - it'll probably be toned down for the actual product.

[CG19]

This is just a tweak on Davio's "Safe" card. It functions very similarly (except with the cool card-as-a-mat part) but with a useful on-gain effect:

Investment - Action

$2
+1 Action

When you buy or play this, for each coin you didn't spend this turn, place on a coin token on your coin mat.

----------------------------------------------

And the rules would of course state that you can spend coin tokens during any consequntial buy phase. This would even help deal with the 5/2 split (if you don't start with identical hands, of course).

So if you start with $4 and buy Investment you will have 2 coin tokens on your mat and next turn you can buy something up to $5, and the same with a $3 start. Overall, this will help with bad luck draws and when you it's pivotal to reach $5 or $6.

How does this work when you play it? How do you know at the time which coins you haven't spent that turn?

Hah, good catch. I meant to say, "When you buy this or while this is in play, at the start of your clean-up phase, place on a coin token on your coin mat for each unused coin."

It's not perfect, but you get what it's trying to do. If I work at it, I'm sure I could make it short and sweet.

EDIT
I actually like that. I wonder how short it would look on a card.

[AHoppy]

My first thought:

[zporiri]

the guy on the right has a saw that looks like the saw in woodcutter...possibly an overpay-coin version of woodcutter will be in this set?

[philosophyguy]

...possibly an overpay-coin version of woodcutter will be in this set?

If the card replicates an existing functionality, it will be really hard to price correctly. You can't make Overpay-Woodcutter $3 because it would be strictly superior. At $4, you need to be willing to trade a $5 card right now for the potential to use a saved coin later—that's a rough tradeoff. Maybe you make Overpay-Woodcutter +1 Buy, +1 coin so that it's not strictly superior at $3…I don't know. At any rate, making Overpay cards balanced is tricky.

[Hockey Mask]

My first thought:

Your first thought or mine?
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1626163/dominion-guilds

[Matt_Arnold]

The mechanic "when you gain this, for each coin you over-spend, do x effect"

I don't think this had been confirmed before just now to be how the mechanic works. Unless I missed previous clarification.

Well, I didn't playtest them all. Just some. For all I know, the set might also include cards that match the other hypotheses described in this thread. Who can say? Also, for all I know, the cards I saw were changed to a different form of functionality after I saw them. It was years and years ago.