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[Ozle]

##WARNING THIS IS COMPLETELY AN ALPHA TEST##

I thought this would be good to play with the new dice rolling!

Modular Crazy Golf is a game where you draw random tiles to create a crazy golf course, and then play the course to see who wins in the fewest amount of shots.

You pick a compass direction and then roll a D6, thats where your ball goes. Further rules at the bottom.

includes real ball physics*
Dangerous Hazards*
Crazy Shenanigans*
help build the course as you go along!
Event Cards so you can mess with your opposition.

*May be over exaggerated

The Rules can be found here
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9nChUoUKdnGY2dvYnFmQUtjeUk/edit?usp=sharing

The Card List can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtnChUoUKdnGdGg2NzRVbU1KdW9sSWUyYWUzV2tSNmc&usp=sharing

And the course Tiles can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtnChUoUKdnGdG04Y0ZTcXpPQ2tZVzhJaWtwcG5uRkE&usp=sharing


As stated above, this is fairly new so it may not be 100% yet, rules may change mid game if need be! Or things may need fixing as we go along!


4 players, taking it in turn to roll dice, and pass if they dont want to play cards shouldnt make it any longer than other games

[popsofctown]

I think I'm not really into this genre of game, but I'll be a warm body and help you out since I'd like to encourage independent game dev.  If you get four players that are more excited than I am, better yet.

[theory]

I thought about making a game like this after playing a lot of SimGolf, actually. 

[Ozle]

I thought about making a game like this after playing a lot of SimGolf, actually.

I thought about it after playing some real golf.

You up for a game then?

[Ozle]

I think I'm not really into this genre of game, but I'll be a warm body and help you out since I'd like to encourage independent game dev.  If you get four players that are more excited than I am, better yet.

Cheers! Bit of cut throat golfing action, what better genre could there be! haha

[Qvist]

/in, reading rules later

[Thisisnotasmile]

In. Not looked at the rules at all yet.

[Axxle]

Looks fun! But looking through the cards,  "That's not your ball" looks very unfun. 

[Ozle]

Looks fun! But looking through the cards,  "That's not your ball" looks very unfun.

True, will adjust.
It didnt make it onto my crib sheet so must have decided the same thing at some point!

Looking to run this tomorrow

[enfynet]

First forum game I'm ever going to play. [but I couldn't open the rules google doc thingy]

(Unless you count "rap battles" on a RollerCoaster Tycoon fansite as a forum game...)

[Thisisnotasmile]

Looking to run this tomorrow

For the record, I'm going to be out (geocaching) most of the day today. Will probably be back sometime in the evening, so don't rush to start this early.

[eHalcyon]

Is it called Crazy Golf because it's crazy, or is that what you call mini golf in the Queen's English?

[Ozle]

Is it called Crazy Golf because it's crazy, or is that what you call mini golf in the Queen's English?

Crazy golf is golf with obstacles and windmills and such!
Mini golf is just miniturized golf

[Ozle]

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1BHJuQu9wCqKuJ88qWaENp_bmgo1WgY1TJSFL9ZyBniE/edit

First course made. Nice easy one to start with, few bunkers to deal with but nice and easy.


P1 - Pops
P2 - Qvist
P3 - Axxle
P4 - Enfynet   (PM me and I can email you the rules)

I will be PM'ing you your hand of cards shortly.

[Ozle]

Ok, hand cards sent.

You get first go Pops.
You can use any of the Start Squares to start from.

Select Destination in thread and then roll dice.

Once you have moved, anybody who has cards can either play them or enter Pass.

Then it moves to next person

[Thisisnotasmile]

Oh, okay...

[Ozle]

Oh, okay...

Ugh, missed your post when i went though! I knew there was osmehting wrong when i had to sub Pops in even thought he wasnt keen!

Sorry, was still hung over!

If Pops still isnt that keen thats your place

[Thisisnotasmile]

It's okay. If pops wants to play I'll sit out, if not I'll go once he's confirmed.

[Ozle]

Cool, sent you the hand of cards in prep

[Ozle]

Set the Google doc up so that all players can move balls, just so you dont have to wait for me all the time

[Thisisnotasmile]

I think I broke the course

Sorry. I don't use Google docs a lot.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Think I've got the hang of not breaking stuff now. Cards can be used any time they're legal right? There's no limits like "one per turn" or anything?

[Ozle]

Think I've got the hang of not breaking stuff now. Cards can be used any time they're legal right? There's no limits like "one per turn" or anything?

There is currently no limit on the number of cards you can play per turn.

Hmm, layout pieces didnt transfer from my work peroply

However, fairly straight forward.

Can be rotated.
Small is 1x1
Medium is 2x1
Large is 3x1
Square is 2x2

[popsofctown]

TINAS you can have my spot.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Thanks!

I choose the far left starting space, aiming North.

Rolled 1d6 : 1, total 1

[Thisisnotasmile]

Exactly as planned... I do not wish to play a card.

[Ozle]

Cool, anyone want to play a card?
Actually, thinking about it, i didnt put in that many cards that happened during someone elses turn..think i took them out

If not, Qvists turn.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Yeah, it could take a while if we have to wait for everybody between turns. Not sure of a good solution other than "take out the interrupt cards" for PBF though. They'd work fine face to face.

[Ozle]

Yeah, ok, lets take them out....done (nobody had any)

Qvists turn

[Thisisnotasmile]

If this is fun I might print a copy and find some people to play with IRL. Maybe.

[Axxle]

I can sit out if it won't break anything.  I haven't read the rules fully and will not be able to do much till tuesday.

[Qvist]

I start on spot 2 from left and aim north.

Rolled 1d6 : 4, total 4

[enfynet]

So... What par is this hole? It's 20 squares long so a minimum of 4 turns is the absolute lowest possible score.  Maybe there should be the option to roll 1 or 2 dice just to make par a reasonable score chance. (An average roll with 2 d6 on this would give you 3 turns to complete the hole.)

[Ozle]

Par is generally the number of squares, so at the moment its 3. That's just for recording purposes though, of course the true game is stroke play against your opponents.

[enfynet]

So if the par on this hole is 3, why are we limited to rolling 1 d6 die? It would be impossible to par the hole.

[enfynet]

If this is fun I might print a copy and find some people to play with IRL. Maybe.

I'll have to do this for Game Night at work. I think they'd enjoy it.

[Ozle]

Because your not scored against the par, you are scored against total shots. Par 3 is the golfing term im using to use 3 boards.

If you need to mentally quantify it, think of each shot being several rolls of the dice. Rolling two dice a turn would create unecessary variance I think

[enfynet]

Not any moreso than doubling the number of turns it takes.

i.e.

Player A rolls 1d6 : An average roll (3.5) would take 6 rolls (5.71) to total 20

Player B rolls 2d6 : An average roll (7) would take 3 rolls (2.86) to total 20

It will still take an average of 6 total dice to reach the minimum value of 20, with a minimum of 4 dice to total that value.

In other words; how is it any different than player A rolling four separate 1's while player B rolls two 2's.  I think two dice (2d6) makes an "average" shot more reasonable, and thus "par" easier to calculate.  In this case, 2d6 will average 3 turns to complete the hole, thus giving the "par" for the hole.  In golf, par is considered "average" when calculating difficulties for holes.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/par

[Ozle]

I start on spot 2 from left and aim north.

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d6 : 4, total 4

Moved you, but feel free to move yourselves if I am not around

[Ozle]

Not any moreso than doubling the number of turns it takes.

i.e.

Player A rolls 1d6 : An average roll (3.5) would take 6 rolls (5.71) to total 20

Player B rolls 2d6 : An average roll (7) would take 3 rolls (2.86) to total 20

It will still take an average of 6 total dice to reach the minimum value of 20, with a minimum of 4 dice to total that value.

In other words; how is it any different than player A rolling four separate 1's while player B rolls two 2's.  I think two dice (2d6) makes an "average" shot more reasonable, and thus "par" easier to calculate.  In this case, 2d6 will average 3 turns to complete the hole, thus giving the "par" for the hole.  In golf, par is considered "average" when calculating difficulties for holes.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/par

Im not doubting your maths, or your definitions.

But you have to take into account that this is a game based on interactions with other people and thier balls.

If I was playing it solo, i would probably do it your way.
But its multiplayer and thus the interactions come with bouncing balls off each other.

I fully expect each hole to take 8 to 10 shots barring good rolls. I cant say its a Par 8. The only link between the different holes I got to go on is how many boards they are made up of, thus thats what I use for Par.

If you take 6 shots on this, there is nothing in the game to say you are 3 over par.

Its something I am looking at, but not solved yet. But rolling two dice didnt work when i tried it out with my friends.

[Ozle]

Axxle you are up

[Axxle]

I'll catch up this evening.

[eHalcyon]

By the way Ozle, wikipedia says that Crazy Golf is indeed another name for what is commonly called Mini-Golf, at least where I live.  It appears that the international sports association(!) World Minigolf Sport Federation prefers "minigolf".

I didn't look carefully at all the tiles.  How many tropes did you incorporate?  I remember seeing a windmill, and you mentioned shortcuts.  Not sure what else there could be... Castles?  A gorilla opening and closing its mouth?  Landmarks like the Eiffel Tower?  Various cartoons would be a good place to look for inspiration.  There is the classic Simpsons episode, and also an entire Futurama movie involving giant minigolf as a plot point.

[Ozle]

Fun Fact: I nearly entered the World Mini-Golf Championships a few years back, but couldnt make it on the actual day.

Yeah, i know people use the game as interchangeable, but thats how I define them.

I only have the portculliss, ramps and windmill at the moment. Will look to add more if the basic game looks workable.

I grew up by the seaside, I have the real thing to provide examples!

[Thisisnotasmile]

Fun Fact: I nearly entered the World Mini-Golf Championships a few years back, but couldnt make it on the actual day.

Yeah, i know people use the game as interchangeable, but thats how I define them.

I only have the portculliss, ramps and windmill at the moment. Will look to add more if the basic game looks workable.

I grew up by the seaside, I have the real thing to provide examples!

Where did you grow up? I've spent most of my life in the coast of Suffolk.

[Ozle]

Fun Fact: I nearly entered the World Mini-Golf Championships a few years back, but couldnt make it on the actual day.

Yeah, i know people use the game as interchangeable, but thats how I define them.

I only have the portculliss, ramps and windmill at the moment. Will look to add more if the basic game looks workable.

I grew up by the seaside, I have the real thing to provide examples!

Where did you grow up? I've spent most of my life in the coast of Suffolk.

I wish it was here:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/bunker-mentality/full-size-crazy-golf-course-built-china-131817381.html

[Axxle]

Starting in spot 4 going northwest

Rolled 1d6 : 1, total 1

[Axxle]

WOO!

[enfynet]

I'm hoping I get the roll function right...

I'll start off in start block #5

Rolled 1d6 : 3, total 3

and survey says....

[enfynet]

I'm hoping I get the roll function right...

I'll start off in start block #5

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d6 : 3, total 3

and survey says....

crap i forgot to mention northwest direction...

[Ozle]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtnChUoUKdnGdHcyUmY2QTBWQm1SZk1SdW1aNWZUTGc&usp=sharing

This is where the Course layout items are.

They cannot be placed over another item on the course, or on another players ball.

[Thisisnotasmile]

I play "Stolen Playbook" on Qvist because he his his ball furthest up the course and needs to be stopped!

[Ozle]

Ohh, its an early gamble

[Thisisnotasmile]

Might as well steal a card now before he plays all his good ones.

[Ozle]

Hand sent.

(im thinking of changing that one to copy instead of steal)

[Thisisnotasmile]

I steal "Big Shot". I aim North and play "Big Shot" (do not roll, move 5 spaces). I play "Whose Turn Is It?". Well, as a matter of fact, it just so happens to be my turn!

Updating then will play my next turn.

[Thisisnotasmile]

I play "Layout Piece - Medium Water" and place it S and SE of myself. I aim North and move this far:

Rolled 1d6 : 5, total 5

[Thisisnotasmile]

For the record, I have no cards left in hand. Everything is updated. Let's go.

[Ozle]

Wow, a bit of a crazy combo going on there!

Possible restriction of 1 playing one card per turn needed? Something to watch

[Thisisnotasmile]

Yeah, possibly. I had that planned for my first turn until I rolled a 1... That's why I asked earlier if there was a limit. We'll see how it goes.

As for the "steal a card", maybe change it to "Look at an opponent's hand. They draw 1 card and then you choose 1 to steal (which you must play this turn or discard)". That way, you get the best card from n+1 where n is the number of cards in their hand, and they still keep n cards.

[Qvist]

Hey, I thought Golf is a fair sport. *shakes fist*

[Thisisnotasmile]

Also, maybe change the turn order to "player furthest from the hole plays" like real golf, otherwise I see issues with players rolling low numbers early getting a whole load of obstacles dropped in front of them and never being able to catch up. Obviously, the "take another turn" card would be an exception, and the ability to drop obstacles while you're out in front would be its power.

[Ozle]

I definately think the 'furthest from the hole is a good idea'

[Thisisnotasmile]

Only thing then is you need to define "furthest from the hole" in the rules. Something simple and not neccessarily always correct like "South-most ball is furthest from hole, if tied East-most ball is further than other tied balls" should be good enough. You'll have times when the hole is in the NE corner and a ball on the West-most edge is *technically* further away than a ball in line with the hole but 1 row further South, or a ball is deemed closer than another even though it's found itself on the wrong side of a water feature and needs to go the long way around, but as long as there is a clear definition that's right most of the time, it'll work.

Also, with the player furthest from the hole playing first, it could create some quite fun/awkward/frustrating situations around the hole with balls blocking other balls from getting in. If you know what I mean

[enfynet]

So, on my turn, if I hit Qvist's ball and send him into the water, where does his ball go? Because it cannot be placed on the space I am in.

Do cards allow you to pass obstacles like water? Or logs? or are those immovable and essentially "dead end" pieces?

[Ozle]

There are cards to allow you to remove pieces placed by players.

Hmm, good question on the 'Where does Qvists ball go'

I would suggest a square beginning of the tile for Water?
How does that sound?

[enfynet]

Which square? You can't be in a water square, and you can't be to either side. The rules of golf state:

18-5. By Another Ball
If a ball in play and at rest is moved by another ball in motion after a stroke, the moved ball must be replaced.

So it's saying his ball cannot be placed until mine has been moved, which would cost him a turn. Unless you allow marking ball locations so that his ball can start on that square again?

20-6 b. Where to Drop
When a ball is to be dropped as near as possible to a specific spot, it must be dropped not nearer the hole than the specific spot which, if it is not precisely known to the player, must be estimated.

So it cannot be placed any closer to the hole. Are you going to allow lateral placement? If so, how do you determine which way you can move laterally?
---
Also, if your ball is at rest in a bunker, do you incur a movement penalty when taking your stroke from the bunker, as when passing through one?

[enfynet]

Who's turn is it?

[Thisisnotasmile]

So...

[Ozle]

I think we need to wind it back and implement the 1 card per turn rule.

So wind it back to where TINAS took the 5 move card and go from there?

[Thisisnotasmile]

FML. Assuming I play my "steal a card card", I take it I am allowed to play the other card on that turn? Also, if I play my "Take another turn" card, can I play another card on my new turn?

[Ozle]

hmm, well, e could scrap this and i'll go work on a version 2 now I can see some inherent problems

[Ozle]

or award a win to TInas and start again with new rules?

[Thisisnotasmile]

Let's start over with adjusted rules. Might be worth getting people to reconfirm before we start though. People seem to not actually be playing.