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Author Topic: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes  (Read 40536 times)

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #600 on: April 19, 2013, 11:33:14 am »

Kirian scores 21 culture, 8 science, and produces 2 (4-2 consumption) food and 6 resources (6-0 corruption).

Current Player: Qvist
It is currently age IV
Turn: Final

Kuildeous
Culture: 143 (+14)
Science: 16 (+4)
Strength: 23
Resources: 8
Food: 40
Civil Cards: None
Military Cards: III: 5

Galzria
Culture: 87 (+14)
Science: 13 (+7)
Strength: 3
Resources: 2
Food: 3
Civil Cards: III: 4
Military Cards: III: 4

Kirian
Culture: 250 (+21)
Science: 8 (+8)
Strength: 17
Resources: 9
Food: 4
Civil Cards: III: 1
Military Cards: III: 7

Qvist
Culture: 115 (+11)
Science: 17 (+11)
Strength: 42
Resources: 10
Food: 4
Civil Cards: III: 1
Military Cards: III: 4

Card Row (Check spreadsheet for more details)
1 CA: Scout (IV) (removed at end of turn)
1 CA: Scout (IV)
1 CA: Scout (IV)
1 CA: Scout (IV)
1 CA: Scout (IV)
2 CA: Scout (IV)
2 CA: Scout (IV)
2 CA: Scout (IV)
2 CA: Scout (IV)
3 CA: Scout (IV)
3 CA: Scout (IV)
3 CA: Scout (IV)
3 CA: Scout (IV)
Civil Cards remaining: 0

Current Events: III: 4
Future Events: III: 2
Next event: Age III
Military cards remaining: 0
Link to the spreadsheet
It is now the final turn. Units may not be sacrified
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Galzria

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #601 on: April 19, 2013, 11:33:50 am »

Go tell Joe to stop being a pansy and give up his population so I can take my turn.

;D
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #602 on: April 19, 2013, 11:35:10 am »

He's just gotten in, so I expect he'll do it soon.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #603 on: April 19, 2013, 11:48:15 am »

My civilization is the fattest and has reality TV.

Kind of hits too closely to home, really.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #604 on: April 19, 2013, 11:50:54 am »

You forgot to mention the spy satellites and preference for warfare.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #605 on: April 19, 2013, 01:25:47 pm »

Man, getting no Aggression in the end game really sucks.

Build Professional Sports (10-5 = 5 Ressources)
Build Wonder (5-5 = 0 Ressources) (33 Culture if I counted correctly)
Build free Warrior I have no-one left, so I procastinate
Play Air Forces
Take Scout
Play Scout
Win

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #606 on: April 19, 2013, 01:32:45 pm »

I'd ask if you're passing your PA, but you have no PAs you can take, so whatever.

Qvist scores 11 culture, 11 science, and produces 3 (7-4 consumption) food and 9 resources (9-0 corruption).

Doing final scoring now.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #607 on: April 19, 2013, 01:34:36 pm »

Event - Impact of Government (III): Each civilization scores 2 culture per civil action and 1 culture per military action

Kuildeous scores 17 culture (7CA/3MA)
Galzria scores 20 culture (8CA/4MA)
Kirian scores 24 culture (8CA/8MA)
Qvist scores 19 culture (7CA/5MA)

Kuildeous: 160 culture
Galzria: 107 culture
Kirian: 274 culture
Qvist: 178 culture

I've never seen such a diverse Impact of Governments...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 01:36:25 pm by Tables »
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #608 on: April 19, 2013, 01:36:13 pm »

Vying for second. First loser, here I come.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #609 on: April 19, 2013, 01:38:42 pm »

Event - Impact of Population (III): Each civilization scores 2 culture per content worker above 10

Kuildeous scores 18 culture (19 content workers)
Galzria scores 0 culture (9 content workers)
Kirian scores 8 culture (14 content workers)
Qvist scores 22 culture (21 content workers)

Kuildeous: 178 culture
Galzria: 107 culture
Kirian: 282 culture
Qvist: 200 culture

First time I've seen the 'above 10' clause have an effect, as well.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #610 on: April 19, 2013, 01:43:32 pm »

Event - Impact of Progress (III): Each civilization scores 2 culture per level of government and special technologies

Kuildeous scores 12 culture (II govt., I Military, III Colonisation)
Galzria scores 12 culture (III govt., I Military, II Civil)
Kirian scores 26 culture (III govt., II Colonisation, II Construction, III Civil, III Military)
Qvist scores 16 culture (II govt., III Military, III Construction)

Kuildeous: 190 culture
Galzria: 119 culture
Kirian: 308 culture
Qvist: 216 culture
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #611 on: April 19, 2013, 01:45:39 pm »

Event - Impact of Happiness (III): Each civilization scores 2 culture per happy face (max 16) and loses 2 per discontent worker

Kuildeous scores 14 culture (7 happy faces)
Galzria scores 12 culture (6 happy faces)
Kirian scores 16 culture (8 happy faces)
Qvist scores 16 culture (17 happy faces, lol)

Kuildeous: 204 culture
Galzria: 131 culture
Kirian: 326 culture
Qvist: 232 culture
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #612 on: April 19, 2013, 01:48:14 pm »

Event - Impact of Agriculture (III): Each civilization scores culture = farms' food production

Kuildeous scores 29 culture
Galzria scores 2 culture
Kirian scores 4 culture
Qvist scores 7 culture

Did anyone NOT realise Kuildeous had seeded this :P?
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #613 on: April 19, 2013, 01:52:41 pm »

Event - Impact of Architecture (III): Each civilization scores culture = level of urban buildings

Kuildeous scores 8 culture (2xOrganised Religion II, 2xJournalism II)
Galzria scores 8 culture (2xAlchemy I, 1xMultimedia III, 1xDrama I, 1xOpera II)
Kirian scores 8 culture (4xOpera II)
Qvist scores 20 culture (2xOrganised Religion II, 1xAlchemy I, 2xMultimedia III, 3xProfessional Sports III)

Final Scores:

4th: Galzria: 141 culture

3rd: Kuildeous: 241 culture

2nd: Qvist: 259 culture

1st: Kirian: 338 culture
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #614 on: April 19, 2013, 01:54:52 pm »

gg everyone

If I would have drawn a War in the end I might have had a chance at winning, but it was still a clear winner.
That was a fun game. Thx Tables for organizing this.

Btw. it's a shame that Impact of Agriculture has no maximum, but Impact of Hapiness has. 34 Culture would have been great.  :P

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #615 on: April 19, 2013, 01:55:37 pm »

Look, you won by 79, so that 80 culture war was just what you needed.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #616 on: April 19, 2013, 02:03:42 pm »

Good game everyone!

Here's the master spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApPT0N9WtHcKdE9KVW85bDZUeWZ1WHFMS1QzcHUzR1E#gid=15

A few things I think we all observed with the various leaders and Wonders:

I broke Catedral Metropolitana by giving it that 2 science instead of 1. Without that I think it'd be okay, but with it, insane.

Franklin also was probably too strong. I think probably remove his 2 science per turn would be a nice way to balance him. Possibly even change his text to: "Technologies cost you 3 science less. Technologies cost other players 1 science less."

Also, Galzria, want me to dig up your entire list of military draws in age III?
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #617 on: April 19, 2013, 02:06:52 pm »

I know I drew a lot of Defense cards in a game where I didn't really needed them.

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #618 on: April 19, 2013, 02:24:29 pm »

I do think Reality TV was underpowered. The only reason I went for it was because I could double-dip with Impact of Happiness. If it wasn't for that, I think that wonder would have vanished unloved.

I didn't realize how close I was to getting 45+ culture if I took Credit Cards instead until Tables pointed it out to me. I'm not sure if it was overpowered or just synergized really well with all the colonies I had.

Marx was pretty neat. I had to take into account that my military would drop by 10 when I replaced him. No regrets in taking Marx.

I'm not sure about Monte Alban. I took it with the intention of using the population and military discounts to build a mighty army. When that didn't pan out, I started regretting my decision because I knew that Age III would be more expensive for me, and I didn't feel like I got the most out of Age I. As it turned out, I had leaders the encouraged food production, so the downside to Monte Alban did not hurt me any. In any case, increasing my Culture Indicator was nice.

I don't think I got the most out of Roger Bacon. I think I used his ability twice, but the versatility he offered was pretty nice.

Winsor Castle was a pretty nice wonder. Simple, but it gave a little bit of everything. It was like Market: It wasn't overpowering, but it provided a nice benefit.

Borlaug made for a nice Age III leader. When played by someone not as food-obsessed as I was, he would normally only provide 2-3 Culture per turn, which is consistent with someone like Gandhi.


My own experience with the wonders. I only used one of my creations, and that's only because  of happenstance.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #619 on: April 19, 2013, 02:25:15 pm »

My draws... My goodness... Ugh.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #620 on: April 19, 2013, 03:07:33 pm »

Galzria's military cards at the start of age III:
Aggression - Sabotage (II): 1 MA per age of rival's wonder under construction. If victorious: Rival: Discards wonder under construction. Aggressor: Scores 3 culture per age of wonder discarded
Tactics - Defensive Army (II): 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery. 6 (3) Strength
Pact - Promise of Military Protection (II): A: Produces +1 culture. B: Gets +5 strength and produces -1 culture
Bonus - Defense / Colonization (II): +4 strength as defence or +2 strength as colonization
War - War over Resources (II): 2 MP. Loser: Loses resources/food = strength advantage of winner. Winner: Produces same amount.

Turn 15:
Bonus - Defense / Colonization (III): +6 strength as defence or +3 strength as colonization
Aggression - Armed Intervention (III): 2 MP. If victorious: Rival: Loses 7 culture. Aggressor: Scores 7 Culture
Aggression - Raid (III): 3 MA. If victorious: Rival: Loses up to 3 urban building of same type & level. Aggressor: Produces resources = 1/2 cost rounded down

Turn 16:
Aggression - Armed Intervention (III): 2 MP. If victorious: Rival: Loses 7 culture. Aggressor: Scores 7 Culture
War - War over Culture (III): 3 MA. Loser: Loses culture = strength advantage of winner. Winner: Produce same amount.
War - War over Culture (III): 3 MA. Loser: Loses culture = strength advantage of winner. Winner: Produce same amount.

Turn 17:
War - War over Culture (III): 3 MA. Loser: Loses culture = strength advantage of winner. Winner: Produce same amount.
Aggression - Armed Intervention (III): 2 MP. If victorious: Rival: Loses 7 culture. Aggressor: Scores 7 Culture
Tactics - Shock Troops (III): 1 Infantry, 3 Cavalry. 11 (6) Strength

Turn 18:
Aggression - Plunder (III): 2 MP. If victorious: Rival: Loses 8 resources/food. Aggressor: Produces same amount
Pact - Peace Treaty (III): A & B both produce +1 culture; cannot attack each other
Event - Impact of Competition (III): Each civilization scores culture = level of military units and arenas


The part I find most hilarious is the Peace Treaty.
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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #621 on: April 19, 2013, 04:59:11 pm »

Look, you won by 79, so that 80 culture war was just what you needed.

I know.  If I hadn't sacrificed anything, I wouldn't have been nearly all the way ahead.

For the record, the other option I didn't go with was to sacrifice nothing, taking just 42, then build my military up to 60 (I had Modern Army in hand just waiting to be worth 26 Strength).  And then use my other War Over Culture, probably on Qvist; he would have been the biggest threat at that point, and I think both Kuildeous and Galzria would have taken the resign option rather than give me 35 or 55 Culture.  But a war on Qvist wouldn't have netted me more than 15 more Culture (no sacrifices).  Instead I dumped everything, knowing that if Qvist had a war to play on me, I'd only be giving him about 15 Culture (and losing 6 culture from buildings).  My worst-case scenario was for Qvist to play a Plunder/Raid on me, and then Kuildeous play a war--I could deflect an aggression from Kuildeous, but a Plunder would have left me with no ability to build up for a war.

In the end, I figured I'd take the risk.

Btw. it's a shame that Impact of Agriculture has no maximum, but Impact of Hapiness has. 34 Culture would have been great.  :P

That actually doesn't make much sense; none of the other Impacts are capped, why that one?

Galzria's military cards...
[all the wars and aggressions]

Oh my goodness, that's terrible.

----

On wonders and things:

I do think both the Catedral and Franklin were overpowered.

For Franklin, compare Isaac Newton:  He gives a max of 3 Sci rating in Age II, 5 in Age III, and no CAs needed to discover techs.  Now, no CAs to discover techs is nice, but you don't have the extra 3-6 Sci per turn to get them, which means a lower return.  That said, I think he needs more than just the tech discount--perhaps 1 Culture instead of 2 Sci?

I don't think the "costs less to play techs" is a good change though; a couple of times, I was limited by not having the Sci to pay in advance.  I think that change would make him more powerful.

For the Catedral, yeah, 1 Sci would not have been broken.  2 Sci was.

Croesus gave me a huge, huge boost at the start of the game; I think he was OP as well.  Consider that I passed on all the Age I leaders because of the ability to rapidly play yellow cards.  "Once per turn" would probably help with that.

I would have loved to see the Mausoleum finished and used; Croesus, Nebuchadnezzar, Pliny, or Darius could all have been game-changers even in Age III.

Lighthouse seemed OK; I'm not sure if "only applies when defending" should be upgraded to "does not apply when attacking."

I agree that Reality TV was underpowered.  Probably so was Human Genome, Cotton Gin (compare Transcontinental Railroad), Gutenberg Bible (only applying to libraries makes it tough), Macbeth (pacts are... not very exciting), Goethe (sure, 6 culture, if you can get two of Library, Arena, Theater, and build them), Elizabeth (I made her thematic (think destroying the Armada) but not very powerful.
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Galzria

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #622 on: April 19, 2013, 05:17:41 pm »

Nah, I don't resign from games, no matter how ridiculous things get.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #623 on: April 19, 2013, 05:31:26 pm »

Btw. it's a shame that Impact of Agriculture has no maximum, but Impact of Hapiness has. 34 Culture would have been great.  :P

That actually doesn't make much sense; none of the other Impacts are capped, why that one?

Exactly that's what I was wondering. Why is Impact of Happiness capped?

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Re: Through the Ages V - When creativity strikes
« Reply #624 on: April 19, 2013, 05:50:40 pm »

For Franklin, compare Isaac Newton:  He gives a max of 3 Sci rating in Age II, 5 in Age III, and no CAs needed to discover techs.  Now, no CAs to discover techs is nice, but you don't have the extra 3-6 Sci per turn to get them, which means a lower return.  That said, I think he needs more than just the tech discount--perhaps 1 Culture instead of 2 Sci?

I don't think the "costs less to play techs" is a good change though; a couple of times, I was limited by not having the Sci to pay in advance.  I think that change would make him more powerful.

Newton can never give more than 3 Sci, because he gives extra science equal to the age of your best lab/library. There's also the matter of having to work for the bonus, he gives you more of something you're good at, not just more science. Costing less is actually only a minor boost compared to getting it after, it's more for neatness. And well everyone else is getting the same thing, 1 less to play techs. I think that on it's own, without any science rating boost, would be balanced.

Quote
Croesus gave me a huge, huge boost at the start of the game; I think he was OP as well.  Consider that I passed on all the Age I leaders because of the ability to rapidly play yellow cards.  "Once per turn" would probably help with that.

Yeah, I definitely underestimated Croesus. He basically adds an extra CA onto every action, which means you can spam action cards to help you build up easily. Looking back, you played 6 action cards in Age I, which lasted 6 turns. So I actually wonder if once per turn would be penalty enough. I wonder if he might work better as, say, you get 1 CA per turn, which can only be used for taking action cards (as opposed to using them).

Quote
I would have loved to see the Mausoleum finished and used; Croesus, Nebuchadnezzar, Pliny, or Darius could all have been game-changers even in Age III.

Lighthouse seemed OK; I'm not sure if "only applies when defending" should be upgraded to "does not apply when attacking."

It got to near the end of Age I and Galz was saying how he couldn't finish his Wonder, which was something that wasn't quite true I believe, although it would have been tough/required some luck. It definitely had some interesting combos.

The Lighthouse, I can see the argument for that. It would be very similar to Biskupin at that point - giving 1 more strength and being easier to build, but not giving a yellow token.

Quote
I agree that Reality TV was underpowered.  Probably so was Human Genome, Cotton Gin (compare Transcontinental Railroad), Gutenberg Bible (only applying to libraries makes it tough), Macbeth (pacts are... not very exciting), Goethe (sure, 6 culture, if you can get two of Library, Arena, Theater, and build them), Elizabeth (I made her thematic (think destroying the Armada) but not very powerful.

HGP I think is fine. Perhaps too expensive, but Labs are cheap, and Farms are cheaper AND have good combos (impacts wise, notably, but also Borlaug) AND aren't limited by your building limit.
Cotton Gin I agree. I think you could probably throw 2 culture onto that, change it the best farm, and it's still be pretty situational.
Gutenberg Bible, I had the same thought about. I think it's actually an okayish wonder if it comes out at the right time - when there's a good chance you'll miss Alchemy in particular. It makes going for Journalism look very attractive in age II. It also combos well with construction techs. 5 cost Journalisms? But really, I think probably 1 less resource per age would be better.
MacBeth I think is fine. The big thing with him I think isn't the pact stuff, it's 1 MA at a time when 1 MA is really nice. The pact bonus is just gravy, especially if you manage to draw Trade Routes.
Goethe I also think is fine. He compares favourably to Shakespeare - yes, Shakespeare isn't great, but he's an Age II culture focused leader, and I think that he's fine for what he does. 6 culture per turn is nothing to sneeze at. 12 culture per turn is alarming, even if somewhat difficult to achieve.
Elizabeth, I realised the fun thing with how she's worded means you can sacrifice your Cannons for +6 strength, which is quite cool. I do agree she's not that great though. I might suggest changing her to "Your artillery units have +1 strength. When defending, your artillery units instead have +3 strength". That +1 strength would then apply always - during strength comparisons, and when colonising.

I think Impact of Happiness is capped so you can look at your Happiness Track. Also I think Happiness is so cheap to raise endgame compared to other things that if you knew it was coming, you'd be at an unfair advantage. Like, Engineering Team Sports - 5 resources for 8 culture, up to 4 times? Throw in St. P's Basilica and you have something absurd. No Impact can (I think) come anywhere close to that level of increases.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
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