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[yuma]

Each year, my wife and I buy one game to had to our game closet. (We are also planning on buying Dark Ages, hooray!)

Here is our shortlist of potential games to buy:

citadel
power grid
King of Tokyo
Race for the Galaxy

I know there are list of other games out there, but our specifications are kinda unique. Let me explain.

We currently own: Dominion, Carcassonne, Bang, Ticket to Ride, Small World, Pandemic, Wizard and Killer Bunnies.  Of the above we most often play Dominion and Carcassonne followed by Ticket to Ride and Pandemic. We typically enjoy games with a shorter playtime (30 minutes) so that we can get in a couple of games on a Saturday night. We like Small World, but have found it takes too long for us to really like it. Bang and Killer Bunnies we play with large groups of friends who aren't quite as into gaming.

Mostly we are looking for a game that can be played in ~ 30 minutes. works for 2 players. and has a dynamic different from the above mentioned games.

[Ozle]

Not sure how King of Toyko and Citedals work for 2 player...i have both and would think they are better 4 players..

[Tables]

You might want to consider Galaxy Trucker. I think it might be a little longer, perhaps 40 minutes, but you can very easily cut out one of the rounds (they're independent of one another except money (VPs) earned). It's a very different game than any of the ones you listed (that I know, which is all but the last two), being primarily about real time speed. It works perfectly well with 2 players.

(Also I think this thread probably belongs in Other Games, not Dominion General...)

[Insomniac]

I personally recently picked up race for the galaxy and I'm a pretty big fan. I think the first and second expansions add a lot. Haven't played much of the third though and have heard a lot of bad things. The game space that race sits in is different from all those above but is strategic and quick.

Edit: also if you don't mind iconography read the rules online then give it a try with keldon's ai (going offline when goko launches there implementation which keldon is working in with them) has offline vs ai and online

[Schneau]

I like Power Grid a lot, but I'm not sure it fits your constraints well. I've never tried it with 2 players, but BGG does not recommend it for 2. It is also a longer game, and in my limited experience has always taken at least 2 hours or more (granted, with 4 players). I can't say about your other listed games.

Saint Petersburg is a good short game that usually only takes about 30 to 40 minutes with 2 players, but also works well with 3 or 4.

[Dsell]

I think Race for the Galaxy is the game to get from that list. I haven't played King of Tokyo, so I don't know if that would be a good fit, but Power Grid is a lot longer than it sounds like you want, and Schneau points out that it's not great with 2. I've never liked Citadels much. I own it but haven't played it for a while and it seems like it's just not as enjoyable as a lot of other games. Too much time is spent being dead and unable to do anything. However, I've never played 2-player and there might be a variant that mitigates some of those issues.

Race for the Galaxy, though, that's a solid, solid game. The first couple plays can be daunting as you learn the iconography, but after a few plays it comes pretty naturally and only takes 20-30 minutes to play, sometimes even less. And it's awesome with 2 players, either using the normal rules or the special 2-player rules (presumably...I haven't actually tried the special rules). I agree with Insomniac that it doesn't sound like anything you already have.

[Young Nick]

Yeah, I have to say that I don't think that Powergrid is good for your needs. Too long and best with 4-5 people. I guess I would recommend some of the classics:

Backgammon
Go
Chess
Cribbage

If you don't have a nice version of one of these and/or don't know how to play, it might be worthwhile to go old-school. As for newer games...I might say Ingenious, though it's been a while since I've played it. Maybe 7 Wonders? I've never done it with 2 people.

Also, word games are usually not as popular among euro-gamers, but for two people, I would suggest Big Boggle (5x5 board). It's fun and unlike Scrabble, there is no luck in terms of tile-drawing.

[DG]

I'd probably recommend Mr Jack as a good 2 player game for you, along with Jaipur, Jambo, and Lost Cities. Games that are designed to be two player games sometimes have better repeatability and balance than bigger games that are scaled down.

If you want a game you can teach to friends easily then San Jaun is not just an alternative to Race for the Galaxy, it's much better. Complexity is not your friend here. Acquire is an alternative to Power Grid if you want an entry level finance game with a more reasonable playing time.

[Beyond Awesome]

Power Grid is awesome but works better with more people.

[Archetype]

Power Grid is awesome but works better with more people.

Would you call it beyond awesome?

Like YN said, the classics are always fun. I enjoy Othello a lot personally.

Dont own any of the ones you mentioned, but RftG seems to be the best choice from what others have said.

[Ozle]

Argricola: all creatures great and small is a pretty good two player game

[theory]

RFTG is not an obvious recommend to you, because it has a much steeper learning curve than the games you currently like.  The others do not play well with 2.

Have you looked into:

Battle Line
Jaipur
Mr Jack
Agricola All Creatures Great and Small

[Moved to Other Board Games]

[Davio]

My wife enjoys Jaipur and she's not at all a serious gamer, so that might be good.
She also enjoys Lost Cities.

[yuma]

RFTG is not an obvious recommend to you, because it has a much steeper learning curve than the games you currently like.  The others do not play well with 2.

Have you looked into:

Battle Line
Jaipur
Mr Jack
Agricola All Creatures Great and Small

[Moved to Other Board Games]

thanks for the recommendations and for the thread move.

I haven't looked into true 2 player because we do play these games relatively often with friends and family during the Holidays. So I am looking for a 4-5 (or even more potentially) player game that can still work as a 2 player game. The three above appear to be 2-player only and agricola I have heard really good things about, but appears to have a pretty long play time. Is the 120 minutes an overestimation or pretty spot on?

[Ozle]

Agricola all creatures great and small is not the same as Agricola, its a spin off for two players thats much shorter

[Kuildeous]

I have to agree that Power Grid doesn't fit your criteria. It's an awesome game. I've not played it with 2 players, though. I get the impression that it's a better game with more players, but I'm only going off of a gut feeling.

I also came here to suggest San Juan instead of Race for the Galaxy. I like them both, but I think San Juan is a quicker game. It's also quicker when playing for the first time, since you aren't overwhelmed with icons. But I'll admit that Race for the Galaxy has a pretty decent crib sheet for the icons. Things get a little weird with the expansions, but the base set is explained fairly well in the reference guides. The rules are a dull read, though.

But if San Juan is not an option for you, then I would agree with Race for the Galaxy, but I have to confess I've only played only half the games on your list. I just wouldn't expect the first couple games to be within 30 minutes.

[chwhite]

I would like to second Schneau's recommendation of St. Petersburg.  Fits your time frame, is substantially different than what you have, and IMO it works best with two (but is fine with 3 and 4 as well). My GF got it for me as an Xmas present (I had played it before, and had mentioned it as something that might work for the two of us) and it has been a great "couples game" for when we don't just play Scrabble again.

As for San Juan versus RFTG... personally I am all about RFTG and find San Juan kind of simple and easy, but the RFTG iconography can be a pretty high hurdle for people who aren't deep into the hobby.  I actually think San Juan is best with the full four players, because that forces you to get out of the Prospect-Build-Council City Hall-driven rut that happens most of the time.  (And it naturally nerfs the Library.)

[ipofanes]

My wife enjoys Jaipur and she's not at all a serious gamer, so that might be good.
She also enjoys Lost Cities.

Morels is allegedly (I own Morels but not Jaipur) similar to Jaipur in mechanics. If you both can get behind the theme of foraging mushrooms, this is a whimsical looking game with a bit of depth.

[Stick In The Mud]

Lost Cities is awesome !

[Jorbles]

Just chiming in to agree with what previous people have said about Power Grid. The game takes a minimum of 90 minutes to play and since you're almost always playing with someone who hasn't played it before it's usually closer to 2 hours. The game is better with the max number of people, you'll never want to play it with just 2 people.

Citadels is pretty fun. It's similar in mechanics to Puerto Rico, but with simplified gameplay where Puerto Rico was too complicated and some more mechanics to emphasize the guessing what your opponents are going to do. It's also really versatile in its setup so you'll almost never be playing the same strategy even if you're playing with the same group. Plus it's tiny and easy to transport. I'd recommend this of the games you've listed. RftG is good too for very similar reasons. It's like San Juan in space.

Of the games that other people have mentioned I would also like to say the Galaxy Trucker and Lost Cities are both great games.

I really need to try Mr. Jack so many people have recommended it to me.

[() | (_) ^/]

love Battle Line!

[theory]

I really need to try Mr. Jack so many people have recommended it to me.

Mr Jack seems like a deduction game at first, but you quickly realize it is more of a spatial reasoning game.  Until you get extremely good at it, at which point it becomes a deduction game again.

[yuma]

thanks for the feedback guys... anyone familiar with Tsuro? A neighbor recommended it. He isn't super into board games, tried to get him to play Dominion once and was a little intimidated by it and couldn't get him to try it again, but he said he really liked Tsuro.

[Schneau]

thanks for the feedback guys... anyone familiar with Tsuro? A neighbor recommended it. He isn't super into board games, tried to get him to play Dominion once and was a little intimidated by it and couldn't get him to try it again, but he said he really liked Tsuro.

I've played a few games of Tsuro. It is a very light, very quick game (less than 15 minutes). I found it to be enjoyable to play once or twice, but there's not much strategy involved. It's fun with a lot of people to just see where you end up, but I wouldn't at all say it's comparable to Dominion or St. Petersburg or the other games discussed here.

[yuma]

I tried RftG through the downloadable program. I have played probably 10 games or so and am still really struggling to 1. understand it 2. enjoy it. If I can find someone to sit down and explain the game to me I may consider buying it if I enjoy it then, but for now I think it is out.

[theory]

Yeah...that's a common initial reaction to RFTG. 

I like to think of it like this:

Every round, there are five possible things that could happen: Explore/Develop/Settle/Consume/Produce.  The phases don't all happen each round, only the ones that you and your opponents choose.  But the ones that you choose happen for everyone.  For example, in a 4p, if I choose Explore, P2 chooses Produce, P3 chooses Settle, P4 chooses Explore, then this round we will all Explore, then all Settle, then all Produce.

You're going to build things that will give you bonuses during some phases.  Merchant Guild gives you 2 cards every Produce phase, regardless of who chose it.  In the end, you can get a good score either because you build lots of expensive things (helped along with bonuses during Develop or Settle phases), or because you build lots of worlds, Produce goods on them, and Consume them for points (aided with bonuses during Produce or Consume phases).

When you choose a Phase, you get a bonus for choosing it.  For Explore and Consume you have a choice of one of two bonuses (+1/+1 vs +5, Trade vs x2); for Dev it's a 1-card discount; for Settle it's a card after settle; for Produce it's the ability to produce on a windfall.

How the Explore/Dev/Settle phases work are pretty straightforward.  Get cards.  Pick cards to build, then pay cards.  Developments are diamonds and cost cards.  Civilian worlds also cost cards; Military worlds are free but require Military pre-requisites.  Some worlds (civ and military) are gray; they don't Produce goods during Produce phase.  Some worlds (civ and military) are shaded in (Lost Species Ark World); they Produce a good during Produce phase.  Some worlds (civ and military) are windfalls (Alpha Centauri): they start off with a good, but do not produce a good unless you have a Produce-on-windfall power.

During Consume phase, you consume as many good as possible thanks to your Consume powers.  If you chose Consume-Trade, you trade a good first, and then do the consumption.  If you chose Consume-x2, you consume all goods for 2x the points.  If you didn't choose Consume, but someone else did, you just Consume normally.  During Produce phase, everyone gets a good on a production world.  If you chose Produce you get one on a windfall.

The main barrier is the iconography describing the bonuses per phase.  But the icons become second nature very quickly.

[yuma]

For those who recommended Lost Cities, how is Keltis (Lost Cities the Boardgame)? And I don't know why I didn't include Kingdom Builder in my original list. Is it pretty similar to Dominion? I think I heard someone compare it to Small World, but in reading over the rules it appeared quite different.

[ftl]

Kingdom Builder is not at all like Dominion.

[Dsell]

Kingdom Builder is not at all like Dominion.

But it IS really awesome. I've never played with 2 players, though.

[ftl]

It works quite well with two players, I've played a lot of 2-player games of Kingdom Builder with my girlfriend.

(Also, based on this thread I just got 7 wonders, played it with a few people, it was a big hit. So that was good.)

[Qvist]

For those who recommended Lost Cities, how is Keltis (Lost Cities the Boardgame)? And I don't know why I didn't include Kingdom Builder in my original list. Is it pretty similar to Dominion? I think I heard someone compare it to Small World, but in reading over the rules it appeared quite different.

Keltis is a similar light weight to Lost Cities, a family game indeed. The bonus tiles are fun and add more tactic/strategy, but shuffle luck can still really screw you up.
Edit: Basically the only big difference are the bonus tiles on the game board and that you can choose what to double and don't need extra cards for that.

[DG]

Board game Lost Cities is sort of ok but it you only need to be stuck with one unplayable hand and you're put off the game permanently.

[Kuildeous]

For those who recommended Lost Cities, how is Keltis (Lost Cities the Boardgame)? And I don't know why I didn't include Kingdom Builder in my original list. Is it pretty similar to Dominion? I think I heard someone compare it to Small World, but in reading over the rules it appeared quite different.

Like ftl said, it's nothing like Dominion. I would say it's not really that similar to Smallworld either.

Kingdom Builder is basically a territory-capture game, but the twist here is that you don't necessarily win for getting the most territory. You gain points for fulfilling certain conditions that change from game to game, and you have to keep those conditions in mind when you capture your territory.

One example is that there is a condition where you get +1 VP for every row that contains one of your buildings. I nearly got the maximum points because I was able to use the ability to take up water spaces (you normally can't) and build a practically vertical line straight up the board. But, someone else could have also gotten that high of a score by just ensuring that all 20 rows had something in them, even if they aren't connected. There are rules, however, that make that scenario unlikely, but it's still possible.

And there are three different scoring conditions, so if you get shut out of building on a lot of rows when that condition is out, then maybe you can make up those points by having the most in a row or the most adjacent to water spaces.

The only thing I would say it has in common with Dominion is that both games have random elements that make each session different, which is a trait shared by many other games.