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[Qvist]

This was a strange game. I want to recap it here turn by turn.
You can see the log here: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201211/02/game-20121102-212833-9479fce0.html

Of course you want to go for Familiar here. I opted for Shanty Town/Potion instead of Silver/Potion hoping for some faster cycling with slightly weaker chances of hitting $3P. Not sure if right choice.
On turn 3 of course I hit $2P and buy Apothecary as consolidation.
On turn 4 I buy a Wharf while my opponent can buy a Familiar.
On turn 5 I get a Stables and my opponent deals the first curse out.
On turn 6 we both buy a Familiar.
On turn 7 I buy a Salvager and get the second curse.
On turn 8 I can finally deal out my first curse and my second Familiar and another Salvager. But I get the third curse in return.
On turn 9 I have a horrible draw: Salvager, a Curse, a Stables, and 2 Estates. I salvage a Curse, because I don't want anything for $2. I get curses 4 and 5. With a 5/1 curse split I already wanted to resign. But I kept going.
On turn 10 I get another bad turn, but I at least hit $2P for another Apothecary.
On turn 11 I finally can deal out another 2 curses, trash an Estate and buy another Wharf. I get another curse.
On turn 12 I traded a Shanty Town for a Bazaar. Maybe I should have just bought another Apothecary here. My opponent deals out the last curse for a 7/3 curse split and gets a Bazaar and a Stables!
On turn 13 I get another bad draw and can only trash a curse. Again I thought about resigning here. But from now on it gets interesting.
On turn 14 I can trash an Estate and can buy an Apothecary and another Wharf.
Turn 15 is similar: Trashing an Estate and buying an Apothecary and a Bazaar. Now my engine gets rolling. I don't know why my opponent now gets bad draws. He should have had a better deck.
On turn 16 I only buy an Apothecary, but
on turn 17 now I nearly can draw my whole deck. I need to trash my curses, so I buy a Bazaar and another Salvager.
On turn 18 I can trash 3 curses and buy another Bazaar and Wharf.
Now I can draw my whole deck so I buy on turn 19 a Vineyard and another Potion for Double Vineyards, a Bazaar and Wharf.
On turn 20 and 21 I can double Vineyard and then end the game on piles.


But how I exactly did I win this? I didn't bought a single Silver which was important for my Apothecaries. And I think my Wharves were very important, more important than Stables, even though it's terminal and Apothecary + Stables isn't a bad combo. But I'm still not exactly sure how I won this. Should I maybe totally skipped Familiar here and just load up on Shanty Towns (later Bazaars), Wharves and Apothecaries? Is Apothecary + Salvager a really good defense to Familiar on its own?

[Qvist]

No comments? tl;dr? The turn summary is only for those who didn't want to read the log...
I really like to hear some feedback.

[Captain_Frisk]

Depends on the kingdom?  I won a game a few days ago featuring apothecary, inn, goons, and nobles.  By purchasing an inn at the end of the turn (and using it to discard coppers), I was able to have total deck draw over and over and over again.

Final score was about 115 to 4 in 15 turns.

[Robz888]

Well, I always hear that straight-Wharf can beat Familiar. So I think perhaps the headline is just that. You also trashed those Curses aggressively with Salvagers, so the Familiaring ended up not slowing you down as much, perhaps?

[RisingJaguar]

Things your opponent didn't do so well:
- Bought two silvers - should have been shanty towns.  He ends up having a couple more terminal collisions than you partly because of this.
- Bought third familiar - easily should have been apothecary, then there's a ripple effect of not buying enough apothecaries (can't access potions fast enough)
- Number 2 leads to not being able to get vineyards as easily.
- 2nd Wharf bought on T18, which I think was really key for easy access for +buys.
- Never really is able to get apothecary + other action in same turn (not his fault, and you get this like 3 times?). 

I think also part of the problem was he didn't appear ready to transition over the vineyards as smoothly.  Mainly because he doesn't load up on shanty, but it just seems like he followed you into vineyards.  I think you win on the basis of number 1, 2, and 4. 

Your overall luck isn't as horrible as you'd think.  Clearly curse war sucked for you, but you had a lead on $5 cards all the way through (which looks mightly important with bazaars/wharf) and lead on apothecary (this is more on you as he buys familiar and stables over apothecary).  Apothecary/Wharf on T3/T4 is pretty darn sick. 

But how I exactly did I win this? I didn't bought a single Silver which was important for my Apothecaries. And I think my Wharves were very important, more important than Stables, even though it's terminal and Apothecary + Stables isn't a bad combo. But I'm still not exactly sure how I won this. Should I maybe totally skipped Familiar here and just load up on Shanty Towns (later Bazaars), Wharves and Apothecaries? Is Apothecary + Salvager a really good defense to Familiar on its own?

For overall strategy, familiar does not look skippable.  Salvager as only trasher is not going to cut it.  Especially since the end result needs to be vineyards anyways, it doesn't really make sense to start salvager/silver, silver/silver, to go bazaar/wharf? 

Salvager is a great complement here because the ability to clear out non-coppers and provide neccessary +buy.  Wharf and Familiars presence makes stables pretty skippable.  That hand with stables/non-coppers was a lot more likely then any other normal game.  Wharf just provides the consistency you'd want, especially when there are useable +actions here. 

Only really works with vineyards or all the pieces you accumulate aren't really helpful to the end cause.  Here though, it certainly adds to the final score.

Your strategy is pretty close to what I would do, of course familiar if 3P.  I think I might go apothecary on second 3P but that's with hindsight.  One or two salvagers, depending on if I grab wharf soon.  Shanty towns all day. 

tl;dr: Luck wasn't that bad, and your strategy was perfectly fine.  Whole different story if vineyards isn't there tho. 

[Qvist]

Thanks RJ for your detailed answer.

I see that my opponent didn't play optimally.
The question is if I would have won if he had played from turn 9 on optimally? I mean I was thinking about resigning. And I would've certainly done that if Apothecary weren't on the board as "consolidation prize".

But: This game learned me not to give up even if you lose the curse war badly. You still have to see the whole situation and you need to know that to do after the curse war is over and how your deck will look like. I think that's a very interesting game.

[RisingJaguar]

Thanks RJ for your detailed answer.

I see that my opponent didn't play optimally.
The question is if I would have won if he had played from turn 9 on optimally? I mean I was thinking about resigning. And I would've certainly done that if Apothecary weren't on the board as "consolidation prize".

But: This game learned me not to give up even if you lose the curse war badly. You still have to see the whole situation and you need to know that to do after the curse war is over and how your deck will look like. I think that's a very interesting game.

In short, yeah you seem to have been fine as I think your strategy was better and your luck isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  I think T9 itself was bad, but really other then that, you're gaining either $5 cards or gaining multiple actions a turn.  That's pretty darn good.  Your opponent has smuggler, 2 salvagers, and a wharf by that time.  The two extra curses are on the 'next shuffle'.  Other way around, probably puts you at a significant disadvantage. 

I can see why you were down though with T9 and being down 3-1 on curse war.  But on a closer look, it isn't as bad as you'd think.

One thing I don't get, why on T4/T7 you don't play shanty before the wharf... I don't see any reason why not to. 

[Qvist]

Thanks RJ for your detailed answer.

I see that my opponent didn't play optimally.
The question is if I would have won if he had played from turn 9 on optimally? I mean I was thinking about resigning. And I would've certainly done that if Apothecary weren't on the board as "consolidation prize".

But: This game learned me not to give up even if you lose the curse war badly. You still have to see the whole situation and you need to know that to do after the curse war is over and how your deck will look like. I think that's a very interesting game.

In short, yeah you seem to have been fine as I think your strategy was better and your luck isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  I think T9 itself was bad, but really other then that, you're gaining either $5 cards or gaining multiple actions a turn.  That's pretty darn good.  Your opponent has smuggler, 2 salvagers, and a wharf by that time.  The two extra curses are on the 'next shuffle'.  Other way around, probably puts you at a significant disadvantage. 

I can see why you were down though with T9 and being down 3-1 on curse war.  But on a closer look, it isn't as bad as you'd think.

One thing I don't get, why on T4/T7 you don't play shanty before the wharf... I don't see any reason why not to. 

I don't know either.