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[Qvist]

This thread got me thinking and the Design contest did it too: There are various possibilities to categorize cards.
Until the next card voting contest starts (in December probably) I like to make a little project. To prepare that, I need your help. Please name me "card categories" like "Trasher" or "Gainer" and define them (like if the effect is mandatory or optional). I will give you no restrictions what makes a name a good card category. I'm more interested in the definition of the category than the name, because I know there are different opinions on how to define "Cantrip" or "Village".

To give you some thought-provoking impulses, how would you categorize cards like:
Baron, Coppersmith, Counterfeit, Embargo, Explorer, Harvest, Herbalist, Ironmonger, Jack of All Trades, Mint, Pawn, Poor House, Rats, Treasure Map, Tribute to name a few...?

[DStu]

I think it depends on what the goal is, and how fine-grained you want to have the categorization.

For example, if I think about if a certain board has engine-potential, I would call Festival a "Village". If I talk about different types +action/+draw-engines, I would maybe not.

[Qvist]

I specifically didn't want to predefine the granularity and what the goal is, because I will do that later in my project.
I just wanted to have some ideas and example categorizations from you. This could be "Cards that cost $3", that could be "Cards with a nice image" (not that it makes much sense, just an example). For example, look at a random card from a card list and ask yourself how you could categorize this card.

DStu, to take your example: "Village" would be a category, but do you define it mostly? If it means to you "at least +2 Actions +1 Card", in which category would all other "+2 Actions" cards like Festival fit? How would you call it?

[DStu]

DStu, to take your example: "Village" would be a category, but do you define it mostly? If it means to you "at least +2 Actions +1 Card", in which category would all other "+2 Actions" cards like Festival fit? How would you call it?

I think I call them "non-drawing Villages" at the moment, but I'm happy for another term.

[DStu]

So, again don't take the names to serious, but more on how the groups are defined

Baron: terminal money, +buy
Coppersmith: terminal money
Counterfeit: Dark age card. Seriously, haven't played this, so maybe I'm off, but: +buy, Trasher(Treasure).  +endgamespecialpowers (<-don't know if that get's a category)
Embargo: cardsToAnnoyBigMoney
Explorer: TreasureGainer, terminal money.
Harvest: terminal money
Herbalist: +buy, (terminal money) (<-don't know if I want to have $1s in there). +specialpowersforPotions (<-quite sure that this will not get a category)
Ironmonger: Dark age card. Cantrip+
Jack of All Trades: Treasure Gainer, Trasher(!Treasure), Library, Defense.
Mint: TreasureGainer, Trasher(Treasure)
Pawn: Cantrip+, +buy.
Poor House: Ok, that joke's getting old. terminal Money
Rats: Trasher(?)
Treasure Map: Treasure Gainer
Tribute: Terminal money, Village, draw.

[dondon151]

I think I call them "non-drawing Villages" at the moment, but I'm happy for another term.

Villages with search space x?

Also villages that maintain or decrease handsize.

[brokoli]

Baron : Terminal money, +buy
Coppersmith : Terminal money
Counterfeit : Trasher, +buy, Treasure, "throne room family"
Embargo : One shot, terminal money, Action-silver, counter
Explorer : Silver gainer, Gold gainer, terminal money
Harvest : Terminal money, discarder
Herbalist : Terminal money, +buy
Ironmonger : Cantrip, Iron thing
JoAt : Silver gainer, trasher, "library family", counter
Mint : Trasher, gainer
Pawn : Multiple choice
Poor house : terminal money
Rats : Cantrip, trasher, gainer
Treasure map : Gold gainer
Tribute : Aleatory

Any card that can give +2 action or more each time you play it : village
(nobles is considered as a village, because you can play it each time for +2 action, unlike tribute or crossroads…)

Any card that give +1 card and +1 action without decreasing your hand discarding cards : cantrip
(I consider upgrade and rats as cantrips, because generally trashing is a benefit, not a disadvantage. While I wouldn't consider warehouse as a cantrip, because except if you have a tunnel in hand, discarding is a disadvantage).

TR family : Throne room, King's court, Golem, Counterfeit, Procession
Library family : library, Watchtower, Jack

[HiveMindEmulator]

Some useful practical categories:
Sub-$5 terminal (action cards costing $4 or less that don't give +actions)
Sub-$5 non-terminal (cards costing $4 or less that are not terminal actions -- this includes treasure/victory)
The reason they are useful categories is that you often have a budget of how many sub-$5 terminals you can get if you are focusing on some $5 strategy-defining terminal, and on late game buys where you miss $5, you want to choose among the non-terminals.

Cycler - any card that can remove 3+ cards from the draw deck (ideally it would mean in a "typical" hand, but that's not really practical to define. in particular it's hard to include stables but not crossroads or farming village)
This includes cellar, warehouse, navigator, hunting party, smithy (and variants), minion, stables, cartographer, apothecary, scrying pool, adventurer, harvest
The point of this category is it's just things that can make you shuffle more, which matters in terms of getting to play key cards more often. Harvest doesn't really fit perfectly, since you have no option to not skip the card if you reveal it with harvest.

[rinkworks]

This thread got me thinking and the Design contest did it too: There are various possibilities to categorize cards.
Until the next card voting contest starts (in December probably) I like to make a little project. To prepare that, I need your help. Please name me "card categories" like "Trasher" or "Gainer" and define them (like if the effect is mandatory or optional). I will give you no restrictions what makes a name a good card category. I'm more interested in the definition of the category than the name, because I know there are different opinions on how to define "Cantrip" or "Village".

To give you some thought-provoking impulses, how would you categorize cards like:
Baron, Coppersmith, Counterfeit, Embargo, Explorer, Harvest, Herbalist, Ironmonger, Jack of All Trades, Mint, Pawn, Poor House, Rats, Treasure Map, Tribute to name a few...?

It's worth pointing out that some categories (as I would define them) overlap, and not all cards fit into a category.  For example:

Cantrip - A card offering at least +1 Card and +1 Action.
Village - A card offering at least +2 Actions.

So I would classify Native Village as a Village, Laboratory as a Cantrip, and the actual Village card both a Cantrip AND a Village.

One category I wish was in use but isn't is some kind of term for cards that require collisions in hand.  These would be cards like Baron, Tournament, Treasure Map, and Fool's Gold.  It's useful, sometimes, to discuss these collectively (mostly with respect to fan card design:  for some reason, fan cards that activate off collisions are underpowered compared to the official cards that do this sort of thing).

--

The problem with any categorization effort is that the lines are blurry.  And you can try to define your categories rigidly so as to cleanly and unambiguously determine whether each card belongs in each category or not.  But if you succeed in doing that, I think you've actually lost some information rather than gained it.  You want to retain the information that Mint trashes, and is therefore similar to other trashers in many ways, but behaves so very uniquely that simply saying "it's a trasher" fails to communicate the essence of Mint as well.

I think the upgrade post you linked to is a wonderful post, as it really digs into the nitty gritty details concerning just one class of cards and provokes one to think about the significance of those differences.  On the other hand, you wouldn't really use that information in conversation unless those distinctions mattered in context.  If it's sufficient to call something a Remodeller or an Upgrader, you do so.  If the context is sensitive to the subgroup, only then do you dig deeper.

[HiveMindEmulator]

One category I wish was in use but isn't is some kind of term for cards that require collisions in hand.  These would be cards like Baron, Tournament, Treasure Map, and Fool's Gold.  It's useful, sometimes, to discuss these collectively (mostly with respect to fan card design:  for some reason, fan cards that activate off collisions are underpowered compared to the official cards that do this sort of thing).

So define it! That's the point of this thread!

[Ozle]

Easy to catogarise...

Good Cards
Lab
Chapel
Grand Market
Swindler
Ambassador

Bad Cards
Moat
Curse
Thief
Chancellor


Google Only Cards
Walled Village


Ok Cards
The Rest

[shMerker]

One category I wish was in use but isn't is some kind of term for cards that require collisions in hand.  These would be cards like Baron, Tournament, Treasure Map, and Fool's Gold.  It's useful, sometimes, to discuss these collectively (mostly with respect to fan card design:  for some reason, fan cards that activate off collisions are underpowered compared to the official cards that do this sort of thing).

So define it! That's the point of this thread!

Colliders
Treasure Map
Tournament
Baron
Fool's Gold
Crossroads?

[brokoli]

Easy to catogarise...

Good Cards
Lab
Chapel
Grand Market
Swindler
Ambassador

Bad Cards
Moat
Curse
Thief
Chancellor


Google Only Cards
Walled Village


Ok Cards
The Rest

Wait, where is scout ?

[Octo]

Colliders? That's not quite the right term for all of them, but it is for some of them.

Colliders
Fool's Gold
Treasure Map

Dependants (Dependers? Requirers?  Parasitic? Piggybackers? Or to borrow an OOP term - Compound cards?)
Baron
Tournament
Crossroads
Moneylender
Spice Merchant
Stables
Conspirator (?)

Collider implies - to me at least - that both parties collide with each other, but in the dependants cases they require the other card, but the other card does not require them, if you see what I mean.

[michaeljb]

One category I wish was in use but isn't is some kind of term for cards that require collisions in hand.  These would be cards like Baron, Tournament, Treasure Map, and Fool's Gold.  It's useful, sometimes, to discuss these collectively (mostly with respect to fan card design:  for some reason, fan cards that activate off collisions are underpowered compared to the official cards that do this sort of thing).

So define it! That's the point of this thread!

Colliders
Treasure Map
Tournament
Baron
Fool's Gold
Crossroads?

I vote yes for Crossroads. And with Crossroads, a few others qualify in a similar way: Spice Merchant, Moneylender, Counterfeit, Throne Room, King's Court, Procession. Half of Graverobber, a quarter of Jack.

*edit: also Mine. And sort of Explorer.

[clb]

Easy to catogarise...

Good Cards
Lab
Chapel
Grand Market
Swindler
Ambassador

Bad Cards
Moat
Curse
Thief
Chancellor


Google Only Cards
Walled Village


Ok Cards
The Rest

Wait, where is scout ?

Ridiculously overpowered card (sigular is deliberate)
Scout

[michaeljb]

Also for Colliders/Dependants/whatever: Stables

[ConMan]

Contingents? As in, cards that are contingent on you having another card to do something? Then, does that mean you start including things like Dukes, or do you restrict it to Actions/Actions+Treasures?

[rinkworks]

I think there's a distinct practical difference between a Collider that requires another specific card -- like Baron or Treasure Map -- and something that just needs any of a generally-plentiful card -- like Crossroads or Counterfeit.  Enough of a distinction that it probably wouldn't be useful if they shared a term.

[Octo]

Well, for a start, I think cards that collide with themselves deserve be separate as I mentioned above because the approach is different - buying two/three types of cards to ensure collision is strategically quite different from just hammering the one pile. So to extend that, yeah, being able to buy a wide variety of card is different from needing a specific one.

I guess the rough clarifications are as follows:

require themselves [colliders] (fool's gold, treasure map)
require specific card (moneylender, baron)
require card type (throne room, counterfeit, rebuild)
require any card (upgrade, remodel etc)

Note that by requires I mean 'requires to be effective' because Throne Room + KC + Rebuild et al don't actually require you have the card type in order to play them, but without them they're almost useless. Admittedly Village is effectively useless without other cards, but that's different.

PS - I think the terms contingents is good. Whether a specific name is need for each type is the next question I suppose.

[Qvist]

Thanks for your input so far.

The card examples were simple examples, you didn't have to classify each card.
rinkworks, thanks for your idea, that's one thing I also thought of and already have on my idea sheet. Octo, you did some good classification from those. Thanks for that.

HME, I like the classification of cycler. Let's see what I can do with it.

Some more suggestions for classifications?
To give some input: How about "Risky cards" like Harvest or Tribute or Ironmonger. You never know exactly what you get as bonus (simple card draw excluded here) when you play them.

[mnavratil]

Maybe more like unknown bonus cards. The only times I really consider these risky are when you are trying to use Tribute/Golem for +actions to continue your engine since you don't know if they'll end up terminal; harvest always is and ironmonger never is. Otherwise things like blind drawing with masquerade/Upgrade can be far more risky.

[Qvist]

That's why I put quotation marks around "risky" because I didn't have a good word for it.

[Grujah]

I think best thing to do is to assign keywords to each of card (like #drawer, #village, #trasher, #gainer etc)


But, anyhow,

Baron: Terminal Money
Coppersmith: Terminal Money
Counterfeit: Trash for Benefit
Embargo: One-Shot
Explorer: Gainer
Harvest: Terminal Money
Herbalist: Deck Improver
Ironmonger: Cantrip+
Joat: Multiple Effect/Choice
Mint: Gainer
Pawn: Multiple Effect/Choice
Poor House: Terminal Money
Rats: Remodeler
TM: Gainer
Tribute: Multiple Effect/Choice

[DIonized]

Boxes of Chocolate?  Since you never know what you're gonna get.