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[PenPen]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

[Fabian]

There are probably edge cases for both Copper and Estate, but the general answer here is that you would prefer to not buy anything over buying Estate or Copper or Curse.

[Davio]

Welcome!

An Estate is usually a mistake, even with Baron.
This is because you can't "play" the Estate (or a Duchy, or a Province) so it's a dead card until the game ends. If you won't buy the Estate, you'll see your other, more useful, cards more often.

Think about it this way: Everytime you come across the Estate you bought, another card would have taken its place if you hadn't bought it. An Estate is also just 1 point. More often than not, a game is decided by more than just 1 point, with a 5-3 Province or a 5-3 Duchy split for example. That 1 early point is not worth dragging your deck down.

A Copper is a little better, but still not great. That's because your deck will likely improve quickly even if you just buy Silvers and Golds.

When you start playing, you will want to build your deck up to a certain limit before you focus on green Victory cards. It's difficult to know where exactly you still want to buy Action and Treasure cards and when it's time to go into full blown greening mode, but it takes experience to recognize this.

So if you buy a Copper, again it won't help much (but hurt less than an Estate) but it doesn't do a lot either. In the end, that early Copper will only drag you down, so you're better off not buying anything.

A lot of 5/2 openings just pass on the 2 turn. To make up for it, 5 cards are often the most sought after cards. Think about Witch, Market, Laboratory and the likes, all nice cards!

The fact that you have a "dead" turn is negligible when there's a good 5 card.
If there are no good 5 cards and no good 2 cards, then that's pretty rotten luck and you'll have to take a 4 or 3 card with nothing versus an opponent who might get the same card with a Silver.

[PenPen]

Yeah I wouldn't prefer getting the Estate too, since it's just 1VP and I don't want them to clog up my deck.

Not getting a card feels a little weird, but getting a useless or mediocre card would probably hurt more. Thanks.

[GendoIkari]

Yeah I wouldn't prefer getting the Estate too, since it's just 1VP and I don't want them to clog up my deck.

Not getting a card feels a little weird, but getting a useless or mediocre card would probably hurt more. Thanks.

I think you will find one of the paths to improving greatly is not being scared to skip your buy. This doesn't only apply to hands where you have 2 or less...  in the right type of deck you might want to buy nothing with $3!

[Schneau]

Yeah I wouldn't prefer getting the Estate too, since it's just 1VP and I don't want them to clog up my deck.

Not getting a card feels a little weird, but getting a useless or mediocre card would probably hurt more. Thanks.

I think you will find one of the paths to improving greatly is not being scared to skip your buy. This doesn't only apply to hands where you have 2 or less...  in the right type of deck you might want to buy nothing with $3!

I'm pretty sure the other day I skipped a $5 buy. These things are most common in decks when you want mostly action cards, especially if it is a Colonies game.

[Stealth Tomato]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

I've never had a chance to test this, but with Witch/Ghost Ship/any power $5 I forgot that draws 2 in the supply and a 5/2 opening, I might consider Witch/Copper to prevent Witch triggering a reshuffle if I draw it on Turn 4.

[DStu]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

I've never had a chance to test this, but with Witch/Ghost Ship/any power $5 I forgot that draws 2 in the supply and a 5/2 opening, I might consider Witch/Copper to prevent Witch triggering a reshuffle if I draw it on Turn 4.

The sim says: NO (52:45) double Witch vs double Witch+1 Copper starting from 5/2.

[DG]

Buying an initial copper has a detrimental impact unless you need a really big treasure deck (buying cheap victory cards) or have specific reasons to use copper (counting house). Even adding a copper to a coppersmith deck can be poor unless you know exactly how you're going to draw that copper with with the coppersmith.

[Eevee]

Anyone have any examples of situations where you'd want to open copper, duchy or estate?

[brokoli]

Anyone have any examples of situations where you'd want to open copper, duchy or estate?

Duchy I don't know. Copper, a lot. For duke, gardens, silk road, coppersmith, counting house, IGG...
Estate when you have a hovel in hand and you have a good reason to trash it (baron...)

[Watno]

Also note that often, you don't even want some 2-cost cards. Getting nothing is often better than a Secret Chamber or a Moat.

[mischiefmaker]

Potion/Copper can be a fairly strong opening on Apothecary boards, depending of course on what $5s are available.

[ConMan]

Hmm. Are there any TfB that cost $5 or less that would make it worthwhile to have a 4th Estate in your deck on the first reshuffle? I wouldn't think so, since the slightly increased chance it gives of making sure you match it with an Estate would be greatly overwhelmed by the increasing chance that you'd get Trasher + (2-4)x Estate. If you could open Estate/Forge then sure, but that's a bit tricky to open with

[Tables]

Remake is the only one I can think of for the possibility of trashing it into a Silver, on a 5/2 with no good 5. Running a quick simulation of that... has crashed Geronimoo's simulator. Somehow. I suspect it lowers the win rate though.

Edit: Having got the simulator working, I'm seeing a 56.23%/38.58% split with an accurate simulation, simply making the basic Remake bot open Remake/Estate instead of Remake/Nothing (5/2 forced). That's not good for the Estate strat.

[Stealth Tomato]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

I've never had a chance to test this, but with Witch/Ghost Ship/any power $5 I forgot that draws 2 in the supply and a 5/2 opening, I might consider Witch/Copper to prevent Witch triggering a reshuffle if I draw it on Turn 4.

The sim says: NO (52:45) double Witch vs double Witch+1 Copper starting from 5/2.

Did you exclude situations where there's a $2 card in play? Witch-Copper will obviously lose to Witch-Hamlet, for example.

[DStu]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

I've never had a chance to test this, but with Witch/Ghost Ship/any power $5 I forgot that draws 2 in the supply and a 5/2 opening, I might consider Witch/Copper to prevent Witch triggering a reshuffle if I draw it on Turn 4.

The sim says: NO (52:45) double Witch vs double Witch+1 Copper starting from 5/2.

Did you exclude situations where there's a $2 card in play? Witch-Copper will obviously lose to Witch-Hamlet, for example.

The bots only buy what you tell them. Double-Witch won't buy any Hamlets, even if they are on the board. Double Witch buys 2 Witches, Treasures and Victory.

[Qvist]

This is probably asked countless times, but I don't see this being asked recently...so...

Let's say I play a game and drew only 2 coppers with my hand in my first turn. But there's no $2 cards to buy except for an Estate or a Copper (or a Curse, but you'd be really stupid to buy that in a normal game).

So at this point, I wouldn't get the Estate unless I'm really going for Barons, since I should have a better chance of getting better VP cards in the next few turns.

Maybe a Copper would be fine at this point, which is better than doing nothing? It does increase the chance of drawing more coins, but it also does slightly hurt you in mid to late game.

I don't think not drawing anything would be the most popular choice, but early on, you're basically choosing between two cards that won't help much in the next few turns. So it's still viable but I probably would cringe if I went for this.

I think I'd take the Copper unless I'm really dead set on going with Barons in my deck.

I've never had a chance to test this, but with Witch/Ghost Ship/any power $5 I forgot that draws 2 in the supply and a 5/2 opening, I might consider Witch/Copper to prevent Witch triggering a reshuffle if I draw it on Turn 4.

I just quote myself:

It's right that Witch misses the reshuffle if you draw it on turn 4, but on the other side if you draw it on turn 3 there's a small chance to draw it on turn 4 and higher probability to draw it on turn 5.