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[Davio]

Poor House may also be a nice opener with Ambassador instead of the default double Ambassador.

Now returning those Coppers on a A-CCC-E split doesn't hurt so much anymore and indeed, returning 2 Coppers may even be better than 2 Estates with Poor House. And your opponent may have PH also which makes the Coppers hurt more.

Amb - PH will be interesting perhaps.

[ftl]

I'd say it's the other way around. You open Amb/Amb, secure in the knowledge that you WILL be able to pick up a source of cash on your next shuffle. On the hand when  you get Amb/CCC/E, you can safely return CC and buy PH.

[Davio]

I'd say it's the other way around. You open Amb/Amb, secure in the knowledge that you WILL be able to pick up a source of cash on your next shuffle. On the hand when  you get Amb/CCC/E, you can safely return CC and buy PH.

Ah that's right, PH is so cheap you can get it with a poor Amb deck anyway, not really necessary to open.
Still I thought it would be a nice combo since Amb decks who have won the tennis war still need a couple of turns to transition into their engine. PH may speed this up possibly.

[Beyond Awesome]

Interesting. So, you want to return copper and keep those estates. lol Probably not really, but still.

[Davio]

Interesting. So, you want to return copper and keep those estates. lol Probably not really, but still.

Well, there are more starting Coppers in your deck than Estates, so you're more likely able to return 2 Coppers than 2 Estates in the beginning. There is another topic asking: What would you do on A-CCC-E? The consensus is 2 Coppers anyway it seems, but a card like PH gives even more incentive to go for the Coppers.

Once the Coppers are gone, you'll have a smaller deck and an easier time bouncing Estates.
The Ambassador war is a fine balance which you need to get in your favor.

I could see a dream deck with Crossroads, 2 Ambassadors and PH: All cards cost less than $3, so they're easy to get with your empty wallet.

[Qvist]

Best Dominion Lists 2013 Prediction:

Graverobber $5 #36 out of 49
Sage $3 #12 out of 27
Poor House <$2 #11 out of #17

1.5 hours left to the next previews?

[Davio]

I would rate Sage a bit higher, partly because everybody loves cantrips and because Dark Ages is supposed to be combo/engine heaven.

And Poor House is definitely the best < $2 although PH isn't strictly better than Copper, but surely better than Curse.
If you wouldn't need that silly Tournament, Followers would have been the best < $2.

As far as <= $2 is concerned, I'm not sure.

[Qvist]

Yes, it should read $2- or <=$2, my bad.

I'm still not convinced by Sage. With a strong terminal (Sea Hag), this is great in turn 3 and 4, but from about turn 5 on I rather have a Scheme.

[werothegreat]

About an hour left!

Also, I'm thinking that if these cards are any indication, there are going to be a lot of cards that specify exact costs or ranges of costs, which is going to make Highway a lot more powerful and a lot more relevant and a lot more strategic.

[WanderingWinder]

So while I agree with the statement that we don't really know how strong the cards are going to be without playing them, I also don't think 'I played a few games with my friends and NOW I know how strong they are' is accurate either (not that anyone is actually saying that). That will give you a better idea, but for instance, it was a handful of iso games before IGG's power really began to dawn on me, almost at all.

[WanderingWinder]

Sage/CH should be simulatable/testable decently easily though. Buy a CH or two ASAP, getting coppers until you can, otherwise (no silvers, and no sages yet, because you need to be able to grab that CH). Once you have a CH, prefer sage to copper, but get 1-2 more CHs when possible, and coppers when you can't get sage. At this point, buy provinces when you can.
I am guessing that this will be... maybe infinitesimally better than BM? Maybe you should still get a single silver, and maybe you should still get golds. I don't know.

Edit: probably at least gives you something with hamlet. Eh, it's a 3-card out o 200 combo, but it is something.

[werothegreat]

Sage/CH should be simulatable/testable decently easily though. Buy a CH or two ASAP, getting coppers until you can, otherwise (no silvers, and no sages yet, because you need to be able to grab that CH). Once you have a CH, prefer sage to copper, but get 1-2 more CHs when possible, and coppers when you can't get sage. At this point, buy provinces when you can.
I am guessing that this will be... maybe infinitesimally better than BM? Maybe you should still get a single silver, and maybe you should still get golds. I don't know.

Like I've been saying for every CH strat mentioned ever...

...still needs +Buy.

Though I'll admit this seems a lot more viable than HP/CH (which I tried once - got lots of money, but WITHOUT +BUY my opponent won the Province race), and actually goes pretty far in making CH maybe not be a sucky card.

[Davio]

About an hour left!

Also, I'm thinking that if these cards are any indication, there are going to be a lot of cards that specify exact costs or ranges of costs, which is going to make Highway a lot more powerful and a lot more relevant and a lot more strategic.

Still all the Alchemy cards sit crying in their little corner.

[werothegreat]

About an hour left!

Also, I'm thinking that if these cards are any indication, there are going to be a lot of cards that specify exact costs or ranges of costs, which is going to make Highway a lot more powerful and a lot more relevant and a lot more strategic.

Still all the Alchemy cards sit crying in their little corner.

Well, you can "Expand" them with Graverobber, if not actually...  rob them from their grave...

[Mister Alex]

About an hour left!

Also, I'm thinking that if these cards are any indication, there are going to be a lot of cards that specify exact costs or ranges of costs, which is going to make Highway a lot more powerful and a lot more relevant and a lot more strategic.

Still all the Alchemy cards sit crying in their little corner.

That's a funny mental image with Golem.

BTW, could we amend the name of this thread to list the 3 cards (and continue going forward)?  After a few threads I'll probably forget which cards are in which.

[ashersky]

About an hour left!

Dunno...it's 5 minutes after and still no preview...can't...take it...

[Tdog]

About an hour left!

Dunno...it's 5 minutes after and still no preview...can't...take it...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/838471/previews-2-feodum-cultist-ruined-market

[Schneau]

Graverobber will get stronger the more of these "When you trash this, ____" there are in DA.

[rinkworks]

So is Mint/PH now "the other good Mint opening"?

[werothegreat]

So is Mint/PH now "the other good Mint opening"?

Yes.

[Grujah]

Is it? but what you gonna buy with it? Unless you got Villages, how do you make good use if "always 4" hands?

[zahlman]

Well, Poor House creates an interesting nombo with Upgrade—not only can you not trash your starting Coppers, but your deck would gain a terminal money that is worse for you having Coppers left.

Or is it a combo- trash all your coppers, making every poor house worth 4?

You still need +Actions, and Upgrade is slow for trashing (it's ordinarily nicer for being able to go Estate->Silver and continue with your turn).

However, I think that opening Remake/FV, with the plan of Remaking Estate->FV and Copper->Poor House, should be viable.

[clb]

Interesting. So, you want to return copper and keep those estates. lol Probably not really, but still.

Well, there are more starting Coppers in your deck than Estates, so you're more likely able to return 2 Coppers than 2 Estates in the beginning. There is another topic asking: What would you do on A-CCC-E? The consensus is 2 Coppers anyway it seems, but a card like PH gives even more incentive to go for the Coppers.

Maybe the new question is, in an Amb/PH deck, with a hand of Amb-C-E-E-X, do you return the copper to help out with your poor house strategy, or the estates, to faster thin the deck and allow for more double-copper returns?

[ftl]

Estates.

Copper does NOT hurt poorhouse until you're playing multiples at a time.

(If you play PH with no coppers in hand, you get 4 coins from it. If you play ph with one copper in hand, you get 3 coins from the ph and one from the copper for a total of four. And so on and so forth - if you're playing a single ph in a turn, you get $4 regardless of the number of coppers in your hand (as long as it's below 5)). And to get double-PH turns you probably want to get rid of your starting estates.

[werothegreat]

Estates.

Copper does NOT hurt poorhouse until you're playing multiples at a time.

(If you play PH with no coppers in hand, you get 4 coins from it. If you play ph with one copper in hand, you get 3 coins from the ph and one from the copper for a total of four. And so on and so forth - if you're playing a single ph in a turn, you get $4 regardless of the number of coppers in your hand (as long as it's below 5)).

This seems to make thematic sense - the Poor House gives to the poor - it evens out the social inequality to make sure you have at least $4.  So if you have nothing, the Poor House gives you $4.  If you have two Coppers, well, the Poor House gives you $2.  If you've got five Coppers, well, you definitely don't need anything, and for good measure, we're taking the revenue you got from your Market.  So there.