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[shMerker]

I'm sure if you play Village, Black Market, some treasure, and then Poor House, the Poor House could eat into coins generated by the Treasures already played.  This is clearly a challenging card to use correctly, which I like.  I mean, it's probably easy to tell what kind of deck it thrives in (Treasureless, preferably with +Actions, of course), but possibly tricky to play out in any one turn optimally.

I don't see that being a big concern since the Black Market will have already gotten the treasures out of your hand. Under most circumstances that just means you save Black Market and Poor House to be the last actions you play. It only really becomes an issue with draw-to-x cards (And I guess maybe Menagerie or Shanty Town).

[eHalcyon]

2/5 SPLIT

OPEN PH/IGG

Look at all the Coppers I give.

[chwhite]

2/5 SPLIT

OPEN PH/IGG

Look at all the Coppers I give.

Actually... IGG decks are one of the few situations where Poor House's "a hand with me is guaranteed $4" quality might actually be really nice.  Poor House-IGG-Estate-Curse-Curse is another IGG.

[Qvist]

Also, how is nobody but me crying just thinking about a Sage/Sea Hag opening? Cycle your deck super-fast, get lots of plays of Sea Hag in, have both of you be unable to get over $2 or $3 for half the game.

In the beginning this is great for getting your $4 in hand on turn 3. Sage/Sea Hag for example even if your oponent flipped your Sea Hag.

I also try to come up with some nice interactions with Graverobber.
I'm not sure but Mining Village+Graverobber may be no super-combo, but could be lots of fun:
Play Mining Village #1, trash it for $2, play Graverobber gain it and put it on top of your deck,
play Mining Village #2, draw Mining Village #1, trash it for $2, play Graverobber ... you get the idea.

Also, Graverobber+Inn anyone?
Trash Inn for a Province. Get it later back with Graverobber for the the nice on-gain effect where you may draw them together again. Repeat.

[Voltgloss]

2/5 SPLIT

OPEN PH/IGG

Look at all the Coppers I give.

Actually... IGG decks are one of the few situations where Poor House's "a hand with me is guaranteed $4" quality might actually be really nice.  Poor House-IGG-Estate-Curse-Curse is another IGG.

Holy crud, Poor House-IGG-anything is another IGG.  Because you don't get the extra Copper from IGG until after you play Poor House.

Insanity Wolf has a point.

[Davio]

Cross-posting.

Written before reading any other discussion, of course.

[..]

After reading the thread, I think Graverobber+University would be a really neat combo (for getting lots of $5 actions to trash) and TR/KC-Sage would be kinda nice.

Okay, sure, Graverobber may have some nice combos, but it seems very specific to me in that it needs a combo partner. A card like Mountebank or Witch doesn't need a partner at that price point. But then again, I haven't seen the rest of the cards.

I'm anxious to see what's behind the curtain.

[DrFlux]

One thing no one has noticed about sage: say you open sage/X. If you draw sage and X together on turn 3, you will fail to find anything. This makes it a little worse as an opener, though not quite as risky as opening double terminal.

[Schneau]

Cross-posting.

Written before reading any other discussion, of course.

[..]

After reading the thread, I think Graverobber+University would be a really neat combo (for getting lots of $5 actions to trash) and TR/KC-Sage would be kinda nice.

Okay, sure, Graverobber may have some nice combos, but it seems very specific to me in that it needs a combo partner. A card like Mountebank or Witch doesn't need a partner at that price point. But then again, I haven't seen the rest of the cards.

I'm anxious to see what's behind the curtain.

Sure, but no one said that Graverobber is the best $5 in the game. It's more fair to compare with more moderately powered $5s.

[Qvist]

One thing no one has noticed about sage: say you open sage/X. If you draw sage and X together on turn 3, you will fail to find anything. This makes it a little worse as an opener, though not quite as risky as opening double terminal.

This makes it worse than Scheme, but still you have a decent chance to get either X or Sage in turn 4.

[jotheonah]

But, like, who cares? Cause you got the card you wanted anyway, without Sage. That's like complaining that your Menagerie won't activate cause you have two Platinums.

[Schneau]

I don't understand why people are saying that Sage + Counting House is a good combo. Sure, if you have 2 Sages in your hand and nothing but Sages and a Counting House in your deck, you can discard all your Coppers and play Counting House. But, if you only have 1 Sage in hand to start a turn, there's just as good of a chance to reshuffle your deck and have Counting House be near the top. Plus, once you buy a Province, Sage starts hitting that instead. I think we'll find Sage + Counting House is more of a nombo than a combo.

Moved this here because the other thread wasn't the right place for it.

[eHalcyon]

Okay, sure, Graverobber may have some nice combos, but it seems very specific to me in that it needs a combo partner. A card like Mountebank or Witch doesn't need a partner at that price point. But then again, I haven't seen the rest of the cards.

I'm anxious to see what's behind the curtain.

In the preview post, Donald described DA as the "crazy combo" expansion.  While we've had power cards that don't need a partner, I expect a great deal of the cards in DA will need partners, and they will be AMAZING with those partners.

Donald also called DA the "Johnny" expansion.  Johnny is all about winning with creativity and flair.

[ftl]

KC-Sage seems like a pretty powerful drawing engine.

Disagree here. KC/sage gets you three cards, which are guaranteed to be not coppers or estates good, and the actions to play them... but it only nets you a gain of one card, and you used up a KC. Not that great of a drawer - you exchange one amazing card and one meh card for three cards which are at least meh or might be good.

It would work if you don't have villages and need KC/cantrip to be your village, but other than that, I'd rather use my KC plays on something else, I think.

[RiemannZetaJones]

Okay, sure, Graverobber may have some nice combos, but it seems very specific to me in that it needs a combo partner. A card like Mountebank or Witch doesn't need a partner at that price point. But then again, I haven't seen the rest of the cards.

I'm anxious to see what's behind the curtain.

In the preview post, Donald described DA as the "crazy combo" expansion.  While we've had power cards that don't need a partner, I expect a great deal of the cards in DA will need partners, and they will be AMAZING with those partners.

Donald also called DA the "Johnny" expansion.  Johnny is all about winning with creativity and flair.

This is very true. Graverobber increases the space of things you can try to do in the game in a big way. I hope, and sort of expect, we'll see some cute trick decks built around it. For instance, the synergy between Apprentice and Graverobbers seems promising.

[jotheonah]

idk, when I'm using KC in a drawing engine I usually have more than one in my deck. And I use the first one to find the others and the best targets for them. Sage would help that.

[Grujah]

I love how Sage + terminal silver (Monument, Militia, Swindler) actually make buying silver very bad. 

[blueblimp]

I'm thinking Poor House is getting a bit overrated. Outside of an engine, its effect is basically the same as Secret Chamber, which is far from a power card. In an engine, it's fairly similar to Harvest later on (as a terminal giving up to $4), but much worse early on to compensate for its cheaper cost. Harvest is not a great card.

Poor House should be better than SC and Harvest, but even so...

[Powerman]

I'm thinking Poor House is getting a bit overrated. Outside of an engine, its effect is basically the same as Secret Chamber, which is far from a power card. In an engine, it's fairly similar to Harvest later on (as a terminal giving up to $4), but much worse early on to compensate for its cheaper cost. Harvest is not a great card.

Poor House should be better than SC and Harvest, but even so...

Harvest is not a great card because it costs $5.  I would not be surprised if it cost $3, opening Double Harvest would be as good as double-masq.

[eHalcyon]

I'm thinking Poor House is getting a bit overrated. Outside of an engine, its effect is basically the same as Secret Chamber, which is far from a power card. In an engine, it's fairly similar to Harvest later on (as a terminal giving up to $4), but much worse early on to compensate for its cheaper cost. Harvest is not a great card.

Poor House should be better than SC and Harvest, but even so...

PH has the potential to stack much better than PH, because it doesn't require discarding.  Playing two SC back to back is useless.  There's no point in TR/KC SC either.

I think the main thing that people are missing is how difficult it will be to make PH work.  But on the boards where it does work, it will be amazing.

[Wolphmaniac]

I love building treasure-free decks whenever it’s feasible, so I really like Poor House. PH will combo amazingly with Vineyard for several reasons:
- Good Vineyard decks get money from action cards, not from treasure
- You don’t need any cash in your deck to get Vineyards, just a potion
- You can stack lots of PH’s for cheap to help pop points out of Vineyards, and use the PH money to buy more action cards.

[ftl]

Well, poorhouse is one of those things which will really shine when you hit its niche - a treasureless engine. I agree that it would be pretty useless outside of that. But four poorhouses is all you need for consistent double-province turns.

And since it costs 1, four poorhouses is actually a reasonable number to get. Sure, four Harvests can get you double-province, but you have to use four $5 hands to get it.

Open Workers Village/Chapel, you'll have a deck with three WV, four poor houses, and one chapel in no time at all. If you open, like, Remake/Steward in a game with a village on the board, that'll also get you there super-fast.

...actually, in general, I think that the presence of Poorhouse and some sub-$5 village is going to encourage faking a chapel opening - opening with two weaker trashers if chapel isn't around. Remake/Steward. Moneylender/Steward.

[PigFiend]

Open Workers Village/Chapel, you'll have a deck with three WV, four poor houses, and one chapel in no time at all. If you open, like, Remake/Steward in a game with a village on the board, that'll also get you there super-fast.

...actually, in general, I think that the presence of Poorhouse and some sub-$5 village is going to encourage faking a chapel opening - opening with two weaker trashers if chapel isn't around. Remake/Steward. Moneylender/Steward.

I was thinking similarly, like Remake/Chapel or even Chapel/Chapel.
Nomad Camp/a village card and a Chapel
Even the ordinarily perilous Mint/Chapel. The lucky turn 3 and 4 draws are, funny enough, 1 Copper each.

[Grujah]

Volt, I see your wolf and raise you a wolf.

[blueblimp]

I'm thinking Poor House is getting a bit overrated. Outside of an engine, its effect is basically the same as Secret Chamber, which is far from a power card. In an engine, it's fairly similar to Harvest later on (as a terminal giving up to $4), but much worse early on to compensate for its cheaper cost. Harvest is not a great card.

Poor House should be better than SC and Harvest, but even so...

Harvest is not a great card because it costs $5.  I would not be surprised if it cost $3, opening Double Harvest would be as good as double-masq.

PH is bad early though, worth around $1 average, unlike Harvest which would normally be a terminal Silver. (Not that I really think double-Harvest would be a good opening, anyway. Harvest/Silver, maybe.) By the time it becomes good, you're limited more by +actions and room in your deck, and PH is a terminal that does nothing apart from giving coin.

Terminals that do little apart from giving coin (or equivalent) tend to be situational at best or outright weak: Harvest, Chancellor, Counting House, Secret Chamber. (Merchant Ship can be pretty good, but its niche is big money, not engines.)

[Kuildeous]

One thing no one has noticed about sage: say you open sage/X. If you draw sage and X together on turn 3, you will fail to find anything. This makes it a little worse as an opener, though not quite as risky as opening double terminal.

Actually, I did point that out in my analysis.

If you draw both in Turn 3, then you put your deck in your discard pile. Now on Turn 4, you have a chance to get Sage, your $4, and your Turn 3 purchase.