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[jotheonah]

So, here's a couple of thoughts about Graverobber.

First, why does it specify a minimum of $3 for the cards it fishes out of the trash? There's probably a good reason, but I can't think of one right now.

Second, it seems to lack accountability. If you choose the second option, but have no Action cards in hand, are you obligated to reveal your hand?

Somebody said the minimum of 3 is to prevent infinite Embargo shenanigans (although those are already possible with Possession and not exactly game-breaking).

[pauley_walnuts]

So, here's a couple of thoughts about Graverobber.

First, why does it specify a minimum of $3 for the cards it fishes out of the trash? There's probably a good reason, but I can't think of one right now.

Second, it seems to lack accountability. If you choose the second option, but have no Action cards in hand, are you obligated to reveal your hand?

For your first question, one reason I can think of is a way to defend against trashing attacks (Swindler, Saboteur, etc.). As for the accountability, why would you even play it if you do not have action cards in your hand?

[Lekkit]

Yeah, the curses will eventually run out. And a pile with 10 Embargo Tokens is just as bad as a pile with 9001 Embargo Tokens. In a 2p game.

[LastFootnote]

For your first question, one reason I can think of is a way to defend against trashing attacks (Swindler, Saboteur, etc.).

I don't follow your logic.

As for the accountability, why would you even play it if you do not have action cards in your hand?

Golem.

EDIT: Also, someone on BGG mentioned Sage/Jack of all Trades as an opener. I think that may be the only $4 card that would make me open with Sage. But the Sage would quickly become mediocre with all the Silver. Hmmm...

[Glooble]

First, why does it specify a minimum of $3 for the cards it fishes out of the trash? There's probably a good reason, but I can't think of one right now.

Bet there's a 2 cost self-trasher in Dark Ages that would lead to a broken combo. Maybe one of those "upgradable" cards?

[Lekkit]

Would you have to reveal your hand if you play a Throne Room without any other actions?

[LastFootnote]

Would you have to reveal your hand if you play a Throne Room without any other actions?

Well, Throne Room, Moneylender, and (IIRC) Mine also lack accountability. It's something Donald is aware of and would change if he could.

[pauley_walnuts]

For your first question, one reason I can think of is a way to defend against trashing attacks (Swindler, Saboteur, etc.).

I don't follow your logic.

You can regain any action/treasure/victory cards lost when those cards are played against you? And as someone mentioned, it prevents spamming embargo or other cheap cards like fool's gold.

[DStu]

EDIT: Also, someone on BGG mentioned Sage/Jack of all Trades as an opener. I think that may be the only $4 card that would make me open with Sage. But the Sage would quickly become mediocre with all the Silver. Hmmm...

Don't think it will be worse than Silver.

[Drab Emordnilap]

First, why does it specify a minimum of $3 for the cards it fishes out of the trash? There's probably a good reason, but I can't think of one right now.

I would assume it's so that when you trash cards from your starting deck, you don't have to worry about them actually ending up in the trash pile. When I play IRL, we just set aside trashed coppers and estates to make setting up the next game easier.

That, or Ruins/Shelters do something silly when gained from the trash, and cost $2.

[LastFootnote]

You can regain any action/treasure/victory cards lost when those cards are played against you?

Sure, but this has nothing to do with the $3 minimum.

And as someone mentioned, it prevents spamming embargo or other cheap cards like fool's gold.

At the point that Fool's Gold is being trashed, you probably don't want it. And if you want an Embargo, it's not like it's difficult to purchase.

[chwhite]

EDIT: Also, someone on BGG mentioned Sage/Jack of all Trades as an opener. I think that may be the only $4 card that would make me open with Sage. But the Sage would quickly become mediocre with all the Silver. Hmmm...

I'd be most inclined to try Sage with the curse attacks (Hag, Young Witch, possibly Swindler).

[Kuildeous]

I could see Sage being a pretty good accelerant. Say you buy Sage and MacGuffin.

Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. Put deck in discard pile. Play MacGuffin. Shuffle MacGuffin back in deck for possible Turn 4. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin or your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. You get your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!

Of course, if MacGuffin has +Cards or other deck cycling, then it's not that simple, but I believe that someone else said it best when he said that it basically means you get two uses of your other card.

Not overly powerful, but it could help you get more use of your $4 buy.

[LastFootnote]

I'd be most inclined to try Sage with the curse attacks (Hag, Young Witch, possibly Swindler).

I suppose. But if they collide, you're not drawing anything with Sage. Sure, you cycle your deck, but it won't help you hit $5 any too quickly.

[rinkworks]

First, why does it specify a minimum of $3 for the cards it fishes out of the trash? There's probably a good reason, but I can't think of one right now.

Maybe to foil this Duchy/Duchess trick?  Ok, probably not, but that's all I got.

[pauley_walnuts]

You can regain any action/treasure/victory cards lost when those cards are played against you?

Sure, but this has nothing to do with the $3 minimum.

And as someone mentioned, it prevents spamming embargo or other cheap cards like fool's gold.

At the point that Fool's Gold is being trashed, you probably don't want it. And if you want an Embargo, it's not like it's difficult to purchase.

Well then I'm stumped too. Maybe there's going to be another card in the set specifying cheaper cards that can be gained from trash.

[WheresMyElephant]

EDIT: Also, someone on BGG mentioned Sage/Jack of all Trades as an opener. I think that may be the only $4 card that would make me open with Sage. But the Sage would quickly become mediocre with all the Silver. Hmmm...

I'd be most inclined to try Sage with the curse attacks (Hag, Young Witch, possibly Swindler).

It'd go really nicely with Potion too.

[jonts26]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

[Schneau]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but graverobber can't pick any potion cost cards out of the trash. $4P for example is not between $3 and $6.

Both Graverobber and Sage interact poorly with $2P cost Alchemy cards. Can't gain Scying Pools from the trash, and can't hit a Scrying Pool with Sage. Ditto University, Apothecary.

Though at the time, I was thinking Graverobber would be able to hit $3P, but it can't as you say.

[rinkworks]

I could see Sage being a pretty good accelerant. Say you buy Sage and MacGuffin.

Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. Put deck in discard pile. Play MacGuffin. Shuffle MacGuffin back in deck for possible Turn 4. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin or your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. You get your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!

Of course, if MacGuffin has +Cards or other deck cycling, then it's not that simple, but I believe that someone else said it best when he said that it basically means you get two uses of your other card.

Not overly powerful, but it could help you get more use of your $4 buy.

Next question:  One of the problems with a Mandarin opening is that it delays your ability to use your early buys.  Would a Mandarin/Sage opening mitigate this problem?  I suppose in some cases.

[LastFootnote]

I think Graverobber is going to be much more useful when combined with other Dark Ages cards we haven't seen yet, especially those that upgrade themselves (which I assume means they trash themselves in order to gain a card that's not in the Supply).

[Qvist]

Nobody mentioned this, I just thought of.
Buy Border Village, Gain Grave Robber.
Later: Play Border Village, Trash Border Village with Grave Robber, Gain Province, Play Grave Robber, Gain Border Village and put in top of your deck, gain Grave Robber.
That seems pretty nice.

[jotheonah]

I could see Sage being a pretty good accelerant. Say you buy Sage and MacGuffin.

Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 3: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. Put deck in discard pile. Play MacGuffin. Shuffle MacGuffin back in deck for possible Turn 4. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage but not MacGuffin. You get MacGuffin or your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!
Scenario Turn 4: Draw Sage and MacGuffin. You get your Turn 3 buy in your hand. Yay!

Of course, if MacGuffin has +Cards or other deck cycling, then it's not that simple, but I believe that someone else said it best when he said that it basically means you get two uses of your other card.

Not overly powerful, but it could help you get more use of your $4 buy.

Next question:  One of the problems with a Mandarin opening is that it delays your ability to use your early buys.  Would a Mandarin/Sage opening mitigate this problem?  I suppose in some cases.

Sounds like a great use of a 5/3 opening...

[LastFootnote]

Next question:  One of the problems with a Mandarin opening is that it delays your ability to use your early buys.  Would a Mandarin/Sage opening mitigate this problem?  I suppose in some cases.

Sounds like a great use of a 5/3 opening...

I suppose you are "wasting" $2 of your 5/5/2 opening, if that's what you're getting at.

[Willvon]

Rules question:

Your hand:  Laboratory, Bazaar, Poor House, Copper, Copper.

Play Laboratory, draw two Coppers.  Play Bazaar, draw another Copper.  Your hand now looks like:  Poor House, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, and you've already produced $1 to spend from the Bazaar.

Now play Poor House and all of the Coppers.  How much do you have to spend now?

Option 1:  $6.  You got $1 from the Bazaar, $0 from the Poor House, and $5 from five Coppers.
Option 2:  $5.  You got $1 from the Bazaar, $-1 from the Poor House, and $5 from five Coppers.

What I'm getting at is that I'm not sure if Poor House's $0 minimum means that Poor House can't produce less than $0, or if your total coins to spend so far can't be less than $0.

Poor House can net you negative coins. Option 2 is correct. Donald has confirmed it at BGG.

On BGG, Jeff Wolfe (one of the Dominion playtesters) gave this example:
"(assume Council Room or something)
Play Market, you have 1 coin to spend
Play Market, you have 2 coins to spend
Play Poor House and reveal 5 Silver cards, you have 1 coin to spend
Play 5 Silvers, you have 11 coins to spend"
(End of Quote)

So it appears that Poor House only reduces the value of money you have gained from the previous action cards you played before Poor House.  Once you start playing your treasures, it does not affect their value.  And Donald X. gave a thumbs up to Jeff's example.