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[Davio]

Hey guys,

I am currently hosting a play-by-email Diplomacy game for my friends. It's great fun and I didn't think it would be such a success, but anytime we are all together this is what everyone is talking about. Seeing the game map as a desktop background or on a smart phone makes me giggle. Emails have been flying everywhere. "Let's get Bill! Let's get John!" etc..

I am playing England and are seriously trying to hold off France as long as I can, while fearing the inevitable backstab.

I wonder if any of you would be interested in a play-by-forum game hosted by me.

General details, not yet set in stone:

• 2 seasons (= 1 year) per week
• It will be a standard game with positions drawn from my imaginary bag (online randomizer)
• I will be using an offline Judge program called jDip to enter and resolve all the moves
• Experience with Diplomacy will be useful, but it's not required, just make sure you know the rules

What I need is basically 7 people willing to play. I will close the subscription by Tuesday 24th 19:00 Central European Daylight Savings Time, about a day from now. If we don't reach 7 players by tomorrow, I won't organize it, but if we are at something like 6, I might extend the deadline. If we get more than 7 players, the winners will be drawn from my magical bag.

So if this seems like fun to you, just post that you're willing to play and you're (almost) in!

Also, I might need an assistant to take over from me once our firstborn child arrives (in 3 weeks or so). I have no idea what life is going to be like then, so it would be good if someone could continue the game without me worrying about it. Then again, it might be nice for me to do something else than feed the baby, just have to see how it goes.

Links

• Diplomacy on BGG
• Diplomacy Official Rulebook
• Quick Teaching Guide
• Map pad

[Grujah]

/in

Played only once (Edit: AND WON), and it was 2 of us + 5 commodore bots, on real board. (we had comodore controller and an emulator with the game, when computers make their orders we just do them on board  )
But I played like close to 100 games of aGoT which is based on diplomacy. I should be good.

I guess we can all communicate via PM?

[theory]

Also, I might need an assistant to take over from me once our firstborn child arrives (in 3 weeks or so). I have no idea what life is going to be like then, so it would be good if someone could continue the game without me worrying about it.

Congratulations, and relevant to your question.

[Robz888]

I am in!

[Robz888]

And congratulations!

I've played only once before, but I have read a bit of strategy on it.

[Qvist]

If total newbies to the game are allowed, I'm in. I will definitely read the rulebook, but it might be that I'll bother you with questions.

[Grujah]

reread rules, even understood that weird borders around Denmark thing. \o/

[Davio]

If total newbies to the game are allowed, I'm in. I will definitely read the rulebook, but it might be that I'll bother you with questions.

Well, luckily, the game doesn't allow "cheating" or doing something wrong and even if you don't do anything, the game can still continue. This is because everything happens at the same time, so there's no waiting on your turn.

There's a lot of funkiness with borders and resolving the orders.

I advise you to download jDip, the program I use and fiddle with it. Make sure you understand why some moves succeed and why some others don't.

And you don't need any strategy to win the game, just good Diplomacy!

Also, the game allows ending prior to completion due to players agreeing on a draw.

[shraeye]

Well this sounds super interesting.  I hear diplomacy is a great friendship-breaker, so hopefully I can survive playing with 6 people I just met (well I've lurked for quite some time and know a bit about some of the more frequent posters).

I know the rules vaguely, and will definitely reread; no actual playing experience.  Regardless, I am intersted.

[gman314]

I used to play quite a bit of Diplomacy on webdiplomacy.net and vdiplomacy.net. I'm actually trying to get away from Diplomacy now, so I'd rather not play, but if anyone wants some help understanding the game or some ideas of what to do I could act as a bit of an advisor.

[jotheonah]

I adore diplomacy, but I don't have a board of my own at home to keep track. Will there be a way to access the map online, or will we all be responsible for keeping track on our own?

[Grujah]

I think with jDip he can:

a) export a map and post in forums
b) get all player's actions, resolve them, and send us gamestate file so that we can all load it in jDip, and you instantly get the new situation.

[jotheonah]

if that's how this is working, than I am in.

[cayvie]

oh fiiiine

/in

[Galzria]

Out on this one. I don't feel like keeping my board up to date at home, and I'm not at my PC often enough, so wouldn't be able to track a third party program often enough.

[Robz888]

 

[Galzria]

Unless it can tracked on an Android...

[Grujah]

Well, it is a java program, it can be run anywhere.
Also I expect Davio to provide jpegs.

[Grujah]

Can one fleet occupy one coast and another one other coast at the same time?

[Ozle]

I want to! But I cant, no time im afraid. Maybe the next one if this is a sucess!

[gman314]

Can one fleet occupy one coast and another one other coast at the same time?

No.

And, if you have a fleet in Spain (South Coast) and a fleet in Portugal, the following orders fail:
F Spa(sc) - Por
F Por - Spa(nc)

That is because the two units are attempting to switch territories, even though their paths don't actually collide.

[Grujah]

So, if I have a fleet in Western Medditerian, and somebody has a fleet on North Coast of Spain, can I do

F wes -> Spa(sc)

And if I can, and I have enough support (lets say, from A Por Support Spa(sc) ), is opponent's fleet dislodged?

(Coasts are things that confuse me the most  )

[gman314]

So, if I have a fleet in Western Medditerian, and somebody has a fleet on North Coast of Spain, can I do

F wes -> Spa(sc)

And if I can, and I have enough support (lets say, from A Por Support Spa(sc) ), is opponent's fleet dislodged?

(Coasts are things that confuse me the most  )

Yes. That's exactly how it works. Coasts don't change where fleets are, they just change where fleets are able to move. So, the north coast, the south coast and the territory as a whole are all the same location for both fleets and armies. The only thing that coasts do is change how fleets are allowed to move.

[Grujah]

Also, Diagram 14 in rules.
Why doesn't this happen:
Bulgaria dislodges Rumania, Sev fails.

(ie why Rumania dislodges Bulgaria "first").
"first" because I know there is no order, all happens at same time.

[gman314]

Also, Diagram 14 in rules.
Why doesn't this happen:
Bulgaria dislodges Rumania, Sev fails.

(ie why Rumania dislodges Bulgaria "first").
"first" because I know there is no order, all happens at same time.

Because Rumania is double-supported. Rumania's move has a "strength" of 3 because of support from both Serbia and Greece. Bulgaria's move only has "strength" 2 because of support from Black Sea. Bulgaria and Rumania are trying to switch places, so whichever is most supported pushes through.

[Grujah]

Diagram 27:

What exactly is Austrian player trying to do?
If he was unsupported, he would create self-standoff, both units staying Serbia and Vienna. Would this give him ownership of Budapest? Why?

[gman314]

Diagram 27:

What exactly is Austrian player trying to do?
If he was unsupported, he would create self-standoff, both units staying Serbia and Vienna. Would this give him ownership of Budapest? Why?

I would assume that Austria already owns Budapest and is simply trying to maintain control of it while maintaining control of Vienna and Serbia as well. Just imagine a more complete scenario where maybe Turkey has an army in Bulgaria and Germany has one in Bohemia. Austria would then have a problem. He wants to keep Budapest, Serbia and Vienna, but if he moves a unit out of either Serbia or Vienna in order to cover Budapest, he could lose the moving unit. So, he attempts to create a self-standoff to keep all three. Then, Russia, guessing this move (or maybe finding it out from Austria beforehand...) decides to support Serbia to Budapest so that his buddy Turkey can move in to Serbia.

[Grujah]

So if Russian didn't support and he did

A Gal -> Bud

and/or Turkish guy did:

A Rum -> Bud

nobody would get Bud so Germany keeps all 3.

[gman314]

Well, I think you mean "Austrian guy keeps all three" but yes, that's exactly what would happen and exactly what he wanted.

[Grujah]

Yeah, got confused because ingame Jerries are black.

Thanks, by the way You've been a huge help. Went through whole rulebook, got everything else.

[gman314]

I think that once the game does get started, I might put some general ideas on strategy up here. I don't have time to play, but I think I'll have time to share some thoughts.

[theorel]

I'm up for playing, or I can help moderate.

For those interested in some strategic advice: I used this site to help me in my first Diplomacy game.

http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/strategy.htm

[Davio]

Current candidates list: Grujah, Robz888, Qvist, shraeye, jotheonah, cayvie, theorel

Anyone not picked will become a substitute. If any main player wishes to quit, a sub can just take over. Also, if a main player due to some reason can't submit his moves, he can ask a sub to send them for them.


In regards to how I'm going to do this: I will be using jDip to provide game files and upload screenshots to the thread. You only need those screenshots really, so you can easily play from a tablet or smartphone without jDip. jDip is just a nice tool to check how some situations would be resolved if you're having trouble understanding all the concepts. Once the game selection has been made, I will open up a different thread for the game itself and the title will keep changing from "Diplomacy Spring 1901" to "Diplomacy Fall 1901" etc... Only main players will be allowed to post there.

Any other feedback or strategy "tips" can be posted in this topic.

Main players are free to use whatever communication, probably PMs, to seek alliances. However, I would appreciate it if anything game related will be posted to the official topic.

[cayvie]

It's not first come first serve?

[Grujah]

Idea:

Inthread, everybody writes text with his country's color and puts a flag infront of a post to make it easier to know who's-who. Namely:

France
England
Austria
Germany
Italy
Russia
Turkey

[Davio]

It's not first come first serve?

No, see first post. I don't want to discriminate across timezones and some may wake up later and read the topic later.

Although I don't expect many more than 7 to enter.

@Grujah: Good idea.

[shraeye]

Grujah, that sounds like a sound idea; avoiding confusion is always good.  In regards to that, what does it mean to put a flag in front of a post?

[Grujah]

Bonjour! This is a French commander speaking! Death to English pigs!

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Proin id ante a leo aliquet pellentesque. Aenean facilisis risus vel lorem pretium vulputate. Cras sed ante mattis orci elementum aliquet. Praesent gravida felis vel nibh vestibulum luctus. Aenean sapien nisi, vestibulum sed consequat quis, consectetur sed arcu. Fusce vel lorem erat, eget aliquet turpis. Mauris at tortor et ipsum aliquet pretium. In vitae suscipit sapien. Maecenas turpis dolor, sodales in feugiat hendrerit, mattis eget sem. Proin ut mauris felis, vitae tincidunt neque. Integer egestas bibendum mi, ac ornare quam pellentesque id. Vivamus diam mi, ultrices ac vehicula vitae, malesuada et elit. Mauris libero sem, venenatis nec porttitor vitae, mattis vitae nisl.




Like that. Except that colors are probably enough.

[shraeye]

aha, now rereading that I realize that flag meant literal country flag.  I was thinking about some internet-posty-forumizer-hashtag-whizbang sort of gizmo.  My cleverness can often astound me.

Also, I'm dying to know what that Latin-y looking text means.

[Ozle]

Bonjour! This is a French commander speaking!

We Surrender

Fixed that for you

[theory]

Also, I'm dying to know what that Latin-y looking text means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

[shraeye]

Curses!!! outclevered again!

[Grujah]

@shraeye - It has no meaning, it is a placeholder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

@Ozle - Made me LOL. Specially cause today I was preparing French jokes in case I get Germans, English or Italians

(Edited to take out derogatory terms, maybe people don't like those)

[Insomniac]

How's the speed of this game (based on 2 seasons per week), is it fast like M6 or slower like Resistance and M7. I've never played diplomacy but would be interested if its  slower.

[shraeye]

@Grujah  We should clearly be preparing all jokes; now where did I store all of those Austrian jokes...

[jotheonah]

that was actually a very interesting read. Had no idea Lorem Ipsum came from Cicero.

[Galzria]

Well, if everything is accessible from my Mobile for the oftentimes I'm not at my PC...
/in

[Voltgloss]

Count me out for this one, as I've never played Diplomacy and don't have time now to learn it up - but I'll be watching with interest and maybe join in the next one.

Bonjour! This is a French commander speaking!

We Surrender

Fixed that for you

There are not +1's enough in this world.

[theorel]

How's the speed of this game (based on 2 seasons per week), is it fast like M6 or slower like Resistance and M7. I've never played diplomacy but would be interested if its  slower.

Based on my experience, 2 seasons a week will be on the quick-side but excepting really bad time-zone mismatches should give plenty of time to hash things out.  I'm assuming (Davio can correct) that it's 3 days per fall/spring seasons, with 1 day for builds.  Presumably we'll have a day thrown in every now and again for any retreats that actually require decisions.

It's lots less intense than mafia communication-wise.  I mean you'll probably be concentrating on 2-3 conversations for the most part, where you'll be discussing strategies and trying to figure out what works best for both of you.  Of course, implied in that discussion is the possibility that the other player is trying to convince you to stretch yourself too thin, so that he can take advantage of your poor position.  But (at least when I've played) the majority of my time is spent in analyzing the board trying to figure out the optimal combinations of support and move orders to put me in the best position, and then secondarily trying to convince the other players that they should go along with it.

[Davio]

Okay, I have PM'd everyone with their country.

Unfortunately, Qvist was the only one not picked by the randomizer, the results of the draw can be seen here: http://www.randomresult.com/ticket.php?t=807P784W

I distributed the countries in alphabetical order, so #1 got Austria-Hungary and #7 got Turkey.

I will make a new topic especially and only for the entrants.

Discussion about the game by outsiders can continue in here. Main players are free to post in this topic or wherever they like, I would encourage them to post anything related to the game that other main players may need to see in that "main players only" topic.

[Grujah]

Heh, I really wanted to play with Qvist and Galz. 

I think general strategy advice from gman (or other people) is OK, I wouldn't like couching, but its up to Davio do rule.


I got the worst ones, guys, so you can breath out.
My contacts, for faster-than-PM communications, are:
grujah@gmail.com (gtalk)
thedreadlord_@hotmail.com (MSN)

(I hope its safe to post emails here, its private part of forums..)

[Qvist]

Okay, I have PM'd everyone with their country.

Unfortunately, Qvist was the only one not picked by the randomizer, the results of the draw can be seen here: http://www.randomresult.com/ticket.php?t=807P784W

I distributed the countries in alphabetical order, so #1 got Austria-Hungary and #7 got Turkey.

I will make a new topic especially and only for the entrants.

Discussion about the game by outsiders can continue in here. Main players are free to post in this topic or wherever they like, I would encourage them to post anything related to the game that other main players may need to see in that "main players only" topic.

  No first come, first serve? Now that I just finished reading the rulebook...

Edit:

It's not first come first serve?

No, see first post. I don't want to discriminate across timezones and some may wake up later and read the topic later.

Although I don't expect many more than 7 to enter.

@Grujah: Good idea.

Sorry, I didn't saw that. Nevermind... I just observe the first game and then crush you all in the second one... 

[Grujah]

You can be my sub in case I get overwhelmed by games  Or to just help out.

[Davio]

Time for the main players to move over to this topic.

[Davio]

[..]

I think general strategy advice from gman (or other people) is OK, I wouldn't like couching, but its up to Davio do rule.

[..]

Well, I don't really like laying down rules I can't enforce.
You can do whatever you want short of hacking the other players and entering the moves for them.

Luckily, in this game, someone "helping" you could also help you to your own death.

[Grujah]

Flags:

[Grujah]

[..]

I think general strategy advice from gman (or other people) is OK, I wouldn't like couching, but its up to Davio do rule.

[..]

Well, I don't really like laying down rules I can't enforce.
You can do whatever you want short of hacking the other players and entering the moves for them.

Luckily, in this game, someone "helping" you could also help you to your own death.

Fair enough.

[Davio]

You could just use the PM system, but feel free to communicate however you want.

You can even send a pigeon!

[Insomniac]

You could just use the PM system, but feel free to communicate however you want.

You can even send a pigeon!

I have sent my pigeon to all allys of Insomniac you should expect them in approximately one weeks time. (But really I'm just playing Switzerland for I am neutral [and not in this game, unless this is Bastard Diplomacy  ])

[Robz888]

Vote: Switzerland

[jotheonah]

I believe my email is public on the forum. I'll be eschewing yellow, btw, since it's hard to read.

[Grujah]

I believe my email is public on the forum. I'll be eschewing yellow, btw, since it's hard to read.

Huh?

I propose gray, and #999999 variant. Its closest to white and readable.
jotheonah

[Davio]

And while the main players are thinking about their first moves and looking for alliances, you may ponder over this game I'm currently playing with my friends. A real live situation would be good to show you how this game goes.

The situation is as can be seen on the screenshot, which I made with some Paint and Photoshop skillz. However, it takes too much time, so for this game I will just use the jDip export.

It's Fall 1901, so we're just before our first builds.

I am playing England. I have an alliance going with France, but it's an uneasy one as expected. Still, I want to hold off from going there as long as possible. But France is about to gain 3 builds on year one!!! Besides Portugal and Spain he can take Belgium, but I can block him from the North Sea. I don't want to do that, because I want to take Holland which is a free gain.

As far as Russia is concerned, it's clear he wants Scandinavia, but I said to him: "Let me have Norway this turn, then I'll support you into Sweden next turn." He agreed, but I'm not sure he will keep his word.

Germany is the most inexperienced player and I said to him that he could move to Sweden this turn to bounce out Russia. It would be lovely if he did this.

What would you do as England here? I'm thinking of convoying the army into Holland and (trying to) move the fleet from the Norwegian Sea to Norway. The alternative would be to convoy into Norway, but this risks being bounced by Russia. And I don't like leaving the North Sea just yet to move the fleet into Holland. Thoughts?

[jotheonah]

Let's try it out.

[Grujah]

Am I only one who has problem with this attached images?
They go over text.

[gman314]

What would you do as England here? I'm thinking of convoying the army into Holland and (trying to) move the fleet from the Norwegian Sea to Norway. The alternative would be to convoy into Norway, but this risks being bounced by Russia. And I don't like leaving the North Sea just yet to move the fleet into Holland. Thoughts?

Holland would be a good place to stick your army, unless you don't want to appear threatening to Germany. If Russia is your target, you could also move Norwegian Sea to Norway. So, I think that your first idea is quite a good one. I would also hesitate to leave the North Sea. Then, in the next year, you could convoy an army (Holland or a built one) to Norway with support from Norwegian sea if you don't take it this season.

Another option, if you really want Norway and really don't like Russia would be to convoy to Norway with support from Norwegian Sea.

[cayvie]

Greetings to all from PM Cayvie

I'm going to work right now, and will respond to all missives when done

[Robz888]

Greetings to all from PM Cayvie

I'm going to work right now, and will respond to all missives when done

Colonies to attend to, I assume. Messy business, those Indians are!

Sincerely,
- Chairman Robzpierre, Committee for Public Safety

[Ozle]

How come Russia gets 4 pieces?

[jotheonah]

Because Russia has a ton of territory to defend. from many fronts.

[Grujah]

Cuz like their population was (is) larger than any 3 other in-game countries combined.

[Ozle]

Because Russia has a ton of territory to defend. from many fronts.

Yeah, but thats thier own fault.

First rule of any conflict, dont fight on too many fronts!

Thats why I have faith that my adopted nation of Great Britain will win this game! Go Cayvie!

[jotheonah]

did you mean a "world history/flavor" why or a "doesn't that make the game unbalanced?" why? Cause I was answering the second question.

[Ozle]

I literally have no idea what im talking about half the time!

[jotheonah]

I literally have no idea what im talking about half the time!

Let me just save that quote on my hard drive so I can quote it at you inappropriately in mafia games for the rest of all time.

[Ozle]

It counts double for mafia games! I have even less clue whats going on there!

[shraeye]

Sultan Shraeye begs a favor of the all-powerful Overlord Davio.  Due to the apt switching of that ridiculous yellow Russian ink (they always aim to impress, one has to give credit there) to a more reasonable grey, Turkish mapmakers have had a difficult time telling unclaimed territory from that under Russian influence.  Sultan Shraeye is worried about unknowingly attacking the glorious Russian peoples, and would prefer if neutral territories were given a slightly more saturated color.  The Turkish Empire has vast stockpiles of orange dye (a very lovely color, picked out by the mother of the Sultan's radiant Mihrengis, which I use for all this correspondence), and would not mind using some more of it on those uncontested territories.  Of course Sultan Shraeye would not presume to tell Davio which color to use, only humbly requests that it be immediately discernible from Russia's grey.

[Axxle]

You should take over Australia, fortify it a bit, and then use the extra armies to take over North and South America.  That should do it.

[Davio]

I don't particularly know why Russia has four units - gameplay wise - but this game has been around for more than 50 years, so I'm not arguing with it. It's probably as balanced as it's ever gonna be.........unless you're Italy. Well, you can always try to hang around for the draw.

[Davio]

Sultan Shraeye begs a favor of the all-powerful Overlord Davio.  Due to the apt switching of that ridiculous yellow Russian ink (they always aim to impress, one has to give credit there) to a more reasonable grey, Turkish mapmakers have had a difficult time telling unclaimed territory from that under Russian influence.  Sultan Shraeye is worried about unknowingly attacking the glorious Russian peoples, and would prefer if neutral territories were given a slightly more saturated color.  The Turkish Empire has vast stockpiles of orange dye (a very lovely color, picked out by the mother of the Sultan's radiant Mihrengis, which I use for all this correspondence), and would not mind using some more of it on those uncontested territories.  Of course Sultan Shraeye would not presume to tell Davio which color to use, only humbly requests that it be immediately discernible from Russia's grey.

Unfortunately, that's not possible, but the game moves at a pace slow enough that you can check and double check which region belongs to whom.

[Ozle]

You should take over Australia, fortify it a bit, and then use the extra armies to take over North and South America.  That should do it.

South America and Africa first, set up those choke points!

[cayvie]

I don't particularly know why Russia has four units - gameplay wise - but this game has been around for more than 50 years, so I'm not arguing with it. It's probably as balanced as it's ever gonna be.........unless you're Italy. Well, you can always try to hang around for the draw.

the 1901 map (i think? whichever one adds a bunch of centers to north africa) is what losers who care about "balance" play.

[shraeye]

Also, could someone experienced explain to me the benefit of orders like:
A Paris supports A Burgandy
A Burgandy supports A Paris?

How is this different than both armies holding
A Paris holds
A Burgandy holds?

[jotheonah]

A Paris H -> It takes two armies to beat it (Paris has no support)

Mutual support -> It takes 3 armies (Each country has 1 support)

Of course if both are attacked, that cuts the support.

[theorel]

The point of the support cutting, is that while it takes 3 armies to conquer one of the 2 regions, it only takes 4 to conquer both.

[Ozle]

Why has England not invaded France yet!

I DEMAND action!

[cayvie]

Why has England not invaded France yet!

I DEMAND action!

What century is this again?

[Ozle]

Why has England not invaded France yet!

I DEMAND action!

What century is this again?

It doesnt matter what century it is! Go get them!

[shraeye]

The point of the support cutting, is that while it takes 3 armies to conquer one of the 2 regions, it only takes 4 to conquer both.

Wouldn't it also take 4 armies to conquer two holding territories?

[gman314]

The point of the support cutting, is that while it takes 3 armies to conquer one of the 2 regions, it only takes 4 to conquer both.

Wouldn't it also take 4 armies to conquer two holding territories?

That's exactly what he's saying.

[theorel]

Right, so it might be reasonable to note some common Diplomacy tricks.  I've only played a couple PbF games, so I don't know what other tricks are out there, but here are a couple I've seen.  Note I use armies below to mean any forces, so they could be fleets instead.

1. Two adjacent holding armies support each other.
Effect: opponent needs 3 armies to dislodge 1 of yours.
Note: 4 armies can still dislodge both because the support will be cut.

2. Moving 2 of your own armies to the same territory.  (i.e. "bouncing" in your own territory)
Effect: This allows 2 armies to protect 3 regions, also it allows you to keep a region empty that you might want to build in, while still defending it.
Note: 2 armies will still take any of the three regions by supporting themselves.

3. Whenever you need to add support to a move action, consider the effects of cutting your opponent's support.
Effect: You can "support" an attack without being adjacent to the defender.  Depending on how your opponent acts, you may gain one of the territories he's moving from instead of blocking him from the territory he's moving to (this could be good or bad).  Support cutting cannot itself be "cut".  (i.e. If you move into a supporting territory, and the opponent moves into your territory, you still cut the support.  If you had supported instead, you would have been cut, and gained no benefit from this territory.)


Anyways, anybody have any other tactical tricks that they've seen used to good effect?

[Davio]

You can always try some sneaky support.

If a player counts on being bounced you can support him in unsuspectingly.
This works with point 2. If you suspect your opponent is using this trick, you can support one of his armies in and move to one of the areas he's trying to defend.

Or you can support him to spread his forces.

[jotheonah]

Work has really picked up for me! And I have gotten some really intriguing entreaties that require deep consideration. If you're waiting for me to respond, please be patient, I hope to have time for Diplomatic strategizing this evening (late) so we can all get our orders in in a timely fashion tomorrow.

[shraeye]

A question for Davio, if we are worried about meeting the deadline, can we enter our orders as soon as we think we know them, and then edit them any amount of times up until the actual deadline?

[Davio]

A question for Davio, if we are worried about meeting the deadline, can we enter our orders as soon as we think we know them, and then edit them any amount of times up until the actual deadline?

Yeah, sure.

[Davio]

The first moves are in!!!

Head on over to the players' topic to look at the moves and feel free to comment on them in here.

It is now Fall 1901.

[Davio]

Unfortunately, jotheonah doesn't have the time to play anymore and Qvist didn't want to.

So if anyone feels like playing Russia who are in a decent position, feel free to join in!

This time it's first come, first serve.

[Grujah]

I want! Now get somebody to play italy 

[Robz888]

If memory serves me, Russia doesn't unilaterally withdraw from the war until 1916 or 17...

[shraeye]

If memory serves me, Russia doesn't unilaterally withdraw from the war until 1916 or 17...

I want! Now get somebody to play italy 

These are the best, I appreciate the laughs you guys gave me.

[Galzria]

I have to say, I really enjoy Diplomacy, and I hope that after this one ends we'll see more played out here at f.DS. Definitely more my cup of tea compared to Mafia.

[cayvie]

I have to say, I really enjoy Diplomacy, and I hope that after this one ends we'll see more played out here at f.DS. Definitely more my cup of tea compared to Mafia.

i kind of gave up when i realized i'd be v/la every single spring season; but i didn't want to ask for a replacement when i was in a crappy position

[Grujah]

Maybe we could play other Boardgame too, like aGoT and whatnot.

[Dsell]

Maybe we could play other Boardgame too, like aGoT and whatnot.

I heard someone somewhere say that forum Cosmic Encounter was a thing, and if it really works, I'd be all over that.

[Galzria]

Maybe we could play other Boardgame too, like aGoT and whatnot.

I heard someone somewhere say that forum Cosmic Encounter was a thing, and if it really works, I'd be all over that.

Oh dear... Yum! Yes please!

[cayvie]

ohhhh man

[Dsell]

I love Cosmic Encounter. I LOVE it. So much. All of the swingy, chaotic action, all of the ganging-up? I love it all. It's just wonderful. We play with 2 aliens each and with 110 aliens in all the expansions, it's just endless and completely different and crazy each time. It's definitely better with a good, fun group, though.

I play dominion way more than any other game right now but I think I still have to give Cosmic the nod as my favorite game. It's just so good EVERY time.

I've been playing a few Cosmic Encounter games on the BGG forums, Play-by-Forum actually works quite well.

We need to get Axxle in here to tell us more.

[Galzria]

I love Cosmic Encounter. I LOVE it. So much. All of the swingy, chaotic action, all of the ganging-up? I love it all. It's just wonderful. We play with 2 aliens each and with 110 aliens in all the expansions, it's just endless and completely different and crazy each time. It's definitely better with a good, fun group, though.

I play dominion way more than any other game right now but I think I still have to give Cosmic the nod as my favorite game. It's just so good EVERY time.

I've been playing a few Cosmic Encounter games on the BGG forums, Play-by-Forum actually works quite well.

We need to get Axxle in here to tell us more.

Wow, great pull. Man, I still have all the original cards from way back... I never let anyone bend them so they're still all nice and flat and new looking. I *so* don't get to play often enough. I would absolutely love to try it out in forum format.

[Dsell]

I am playing IRL this weekend!! <3

[Galzria]

I am playing IRL this weekend!! <3

Comets/Moons/Lucre/Double-Powers?

[Dsell]

Nah, the new FF version, for better or worse. But with all three expansions!

Edit: The first time I played Cosmic was with the Eon version, including several expansions, but I don't believe we actually used moons, lucre or comets. We always play double powers though.

[Grujah]

Never played CE, but know the rules and all.

[Davio]

Played a game with friends on Tuesday. It didn't end well...

One of us played Anti-Matter and we misinterpreted a rule that made it even stronger.

As English is not our primary language, this is bound to happen from time to time though.

[Insomniac]

Maybe we could play other Boardgame too, like aGoT and whatnot.

Agricola could work. I'd probably run a game of forum agricola if people wanted. I'd be down for cosmic encounter though I don't know the rules

[Grujah]

I'd play many games. Except those mentioned (aGoT, CE) I'd play:
BSG, Furry of Dracula, Twilight Imperium..
I don't know rules or whether are forum-playable, but wanted to try: Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert,  Small World, Descent, Starcraft.
I'd might even try Agricola, though I never even read the rules as it seems it's not my cup of tea. What is it like? Puerto Ricco?

[Insomniac]

I'd play many games. Except those mentioned (aGoT, CE) I'd play:
BSG, Furry of Dracula, Twilight Imperium..
I don't know rules or whether are forum-playable, but wanted to try: Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert,  Small World, Descent, Starcraft.
I'd might even try Agricola, though I never even read the rules as it seems it's not my cup of tea. What is it like? Puerto Ricco?

Essentially its puerto rico (which i also love) except instead of giving your action to everyone your greedy. You also have a hand of 7 occupations and 7 minor improvements that are unique to you for that game and they bend the rules a bit and often you want to play around what your hand is to maximize your score.

Each round you take turns picking actions until everybody has picked one action per family member, you start with 2 family members but you can take an action to get more so long as there is room in your house.

[Davio]

I don't know if there are a lot of other games which use the mechanism of simultaneous turns, because they fit the play-by-forum style exceptionally well.

Other games that would fit are games where every player has a complete turn, so no placing workers one by one like in Caylus. BGG hosts a couple of Small World games and I would love to be in that as well.

[Grujah]

I don't know if there are a lot of other games which use the mechanism of simultaneous turns, because they fit the play-by-forum style exceptionally well.

Other games that would fit are games where every player has a complete turn, so no placing workers one by one like in Caylus. BGG hosts a couple of Small World games and I would love to be in that as well.

Yeah, they do fit. AGoT is similarish, i.e. Based on diplomacy. Orders are placed simultaneously (biddings too) but are played in sequential order. Most other things can be played simultaneously (i.e. only few problems with things like mustering in the same sea, but it can be CO'd).

Will try to think of something else too.

[theorel]

I'd play many games. Except those mentioned (aGoT, CE) I'd play:
BSG, Furry of Dracula, Twilight Imperium..
I don't know rules or whether are forum-playable, but wanted to try: Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert,  Small World, Descent, Starcraft.
I'd might even try Agricola, though I never even read the rules as it seems it's not my cup of tea. What is it like? Puerto Ricco?

Galaxy Trucker and Space Alert both have significant real-time components.  I don't think they're even possible as PbF.

As noted simultaneous/complete turn-taking games work best, so Agricola might not work great, at least it seems like it'd take pretty long.  (I mean if two people have non-intersecting online times you'd have 1 day per family member...which would be 28 days, without family growth.  Assuming average family size of 3 after round 8, and 4 after round 12 you're looking at around another 8 days...I'd estimate one game to take around 36 days?).  You could push for people to be available at similar times (like the blitz mafia), and make it take significantly shorter.

I'd be up for a forum Small World, I've wanted to get/play it for a while but haven't had the chance.

[Axxle]

I'm very familiar with playing FFG's CE in a forum setting.  I haven't run one before, but I'd be comfortable in running one here.

[Axxle]

I'm very familiar with playing FFG's CE in a forum setting.  I haven't run one before, but I'd be comfortable in running one here.

Actually, does anyone have an issue with me opening this to signups now?  It's not nearly as time consuming as a mafia game.

[Grujah]

I'm very familiar with playing FFG's CE in a forum setting.  I haven't run one before, but I'd be comfortable in running one here.

Actually, does anyone have an issue with me opening this to signups now?  It's not nearly as time consuming as a mafia game.

If it is not, I'd be interested.

[Axxle]

I'm very familiar with playing FFG's CE in a forum setting.  I haven't run one before, but I'd be comfortable in running one here.

Actually, does anyone have an issue with me opening this to signups now?  It's not nearly as time consuming as a mafia game.

If it is not, I'd be interested.

Sample games:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/forum/388216/cosmic-encounter/play-by-forum

I'm particularly proud of my play in PBF 12, even though I lost.

[Axxle]

Signups are open:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3950.msg83002#msg83002

[Davio]

So to spice this topic a bit, see the screenshot to see how the game between me and my friends is progressing.
We are currently in Fall 1904 and after this season, new builds and removals will be submitted.

I'm still playing England.

Germany and Turkey have been swept off the map.
France has tried to sneak in my back door via the North Atlantic and the English Channel, but Italy caused him some timely problems to divert his attention. As no French fleet actually made it to English shores, we renewed our uneasy alliance and he supported me into Kiel (from Berlin) last move.

I also moved into Denmark with a Fleet to be sure to disband the Italian army in Kiel. Now Italy is cut off from his own forces and suffering a heavy assault by Austria-Hungary which has evolved into a central monster.

You can compare it to the second screenshot which has the moves for Spring 1902. It's funny to see how things have progressed.

[Grujah]

This is much different than our game

[Davio]

This is much different than our game

Hehe, and this is exactly what I'm thinking when I'm editing your game.

It shows how much depends on the actual players.
In our game, both Turkey and Germany were uninteresting partners.
Germany was inexperienced and Turkey was too aggressive.

If there's one thing I learned while playing Diplomacy it's never to let your backdoor open too wide. If you dangle a carrot in front of someone, he will inevitably bite in it at some point. That's what happened in our game. Germany swung fully to the south and got bitten in the north. France was coming my way and Italy took advantage of him. Italy and Russia both thought they had Austria, but Austria just struck first.

[Davio]

England played right.

[Ozle]

England played right.

*plays the National Anthem*

[Davio]

England played right.

*plays the National Anthem*

Moreover, the Russian and French player are giving me a free pass to tread through their country just because they're so upset with Austria/Italy that they'd rather see me win than any of the others. 

[Grujah]

England played right.

*plays the National Anthem*

This it?

[shraeye]

That's a cool looking game Davio, I want to see you victorious there!

This game has really got me burning in regards to Diplomacy, I've bought a copy of the game, played once (as Italy; losing due to a inflexible desire to attack France from the outset, 5 years and no progress. Sad.) face-to-face, maybe play again F2F this weekend, started GMing a game amongst some more spread out friends of mine, and started playing in another online Diplom game against strangers (as France, just got 3 builds in first year!).

I was going to post a picture of the game I'm GMing, but can't figure out how to do that.  Davio?

[Davio]

Hey, shraeye, cool that you picked it up like that!

I export pictures under "File > Export Map as..." in jDip.

[shraeye]

Hey, shraeye, cool that you picked it up like that!

I export pictures under "File > Export Map as..." in jDip.

Yeah, I got the file exported fine.  I'm having trouble posting it to the forums...

[Davio]

Look beneath your textbox when you type a reply: Attachments and other options.

[Davio]

Here's an updated map of our game.

I have 2 builds at my disposal, Austria has 1.
I have 13 SC's, Austria has 14, so we're both close to winning.

At this point I've realized a brutal truth. Winning with England is very hard in this position.
Fighting Austria on the continent is an almost impossible task. Austria is army based, I am more navy based. So I've pushed as far as I can go in Germany, probably have to sacrifice Munich (retreat to Ruhr), before I can try taking it again.

Another problem is that Austria and Italy seem to have an uneasy alliance. Italy had used very strong words against Austria when Austria invaded Venice, but they seem to have found a balance. At least, Austria is very supiciously moving around Italy at this time. But Austria just needs 4 more SC's, so he could just take Rome, Naples, Tunisia and Munich or St. Petersburg.

The thing is, I would really like to join with Italy against Austria, but there's not much I can do against Austria. Austria is like my worst opponent in this case. His armies keep popping up near the conflict zones and mine have to be convoyed in every time. But on the other hand, the SC's I can still gain relatively easily are in Italy's possession, so we're battling for breadcrumbs.

I really don't know what Italy is trying to achieve, because he will be stabbed in the back again if Austria tries to go for the win.

I need 5 more SC's to win, but where do I get them? Russia is an old friend, so I would like to help him keep St. P. Getting Portugal and Spain could take some time. So I'm driving back Italy without being able to do much about Austria.

What to do, oh what to do?

[cayvie]

go all-out for the stalemate line, grab tunis and hope

[Grujah]

Listen to pro England cayvie 

[shraeye]

In other Diplomacy news, the game I'm GMing at PlayDiplomacyOnline.com is in danger of being abandoned and I'm looking for subs.  Basically 3 players went into the game with an unflinching alliance hell-bent on proving to a fourth player that Diplomacy was a boring and easy game.  Well after 6 years of holding at a stalemate line while no country is at more than 6 centers and no country at less than 3, they successfully proved to themselves and others that "playing" Diplomacy in that way was quite boring.

This is a 1 day/move game (with an automatic grace period if you forget once) and whoever has time and interest, and PMs me first will get first chance to sub in for an absent ruler.  There are 2 countries in danger of not entering moves this year, and 1 country who didn't last season; so there will likely be more than 1 sub needed.  Also, the countries in the most trouble are actually the ones who have the most intriguing position (those 3 "Diplomacy is dumb" players).  So PM me up if you're interested in this.

[shraeye]

I'll take the complete silence as a no.

[Davio]

Sorry, no time.

I ended up a bit short in my game, Austria-Hungary took it down.

[Ozle]

At this point I've realized a brutal truth. Winning with England is very hard in this position.

*starts up the National Anthem*

The British do not give up when it looks hopeless, if anything it makes them more resolute in the face of Johnny Foreigner!

Take a deep breath and think of Trafalger, Waterloo, The Somme, El Alamain, that film with Michael Caine, 1066....actually forget that last one.

[Davio]

Okay, so now the first game of Diplomacy has ended with Shraeye as the ultimate victor the door is open for a new game.

Sadly, I don't have the time to host another one, but if anyone else wants to do it, I'm game as a player.

I would like to suggest using jDip with another theatre of war, jDip offers many maps for various numbers of players.
So you could see how many players are willing to join in and select a good map based on this number. It's all up to the GM of course.

The problem with the standard map is not just Italy, but experienced players may have an advantage over beginners although being a good diplomat is still the best way to ensure victory. Choosing another map may take those players out of their comfort zone and create a level and fun playing field.

Just an idea.

[shraeye]

I wouldn't necessarily say that veterans have the advantage, but certainly there is known strategy that people who read it can rely on.  After all, that was my first time playing (although I've finished 3 other Diplomacy games in the time since this one had started). 

So it seems that here are the category of things we need to determine  interest in.
As a player: \in
As a GM: willing to \in
As for variants: I'm also willing to try most any variant.  Once we see how many players we are in total, we can ask questions about particular variants.  I can understand, though, the appeal of playing only the real game if this were my first time playing.

[Robz888]

in as a player, variants fine

[Galzria]

I very much enjoy classic, but haven't tried any variants - I certainly won't knock them until I try them, so /in for anything and everything.

[Grujah]

I'm mostly interested in classic. Maybe italy with 2 Fleets variant or something is fine? Not sure about other ones, but will not complain.
Would host as well.

[gman314]

Best variants: (Unless you're lame in which case you might think they suck.) (And no, they aren't all on jdip.)
FUBAR: A totally imbalanced variant! http://vdiplomacy.net/variants.php?variantID=39
WWIV: A variant for 35 players! http://vdiplomacy.net/variants.php?variantID=52

[Captain_Frisk]

In for 35 players, but only if we get all of them.

[Axxle]

In for 35 players.

[Galzria]

In for 35 players, but only if we get all of them.

I don't think that's realistic here, though it would be... Interesting.

[jotheonah]

35 people is about a class at a large public high school.  If anyone is a geography/history teacher and wants to try to get away with running that variant IRL in class for a few days, that would be really epic. Not worth getting fired over, but epic...

[gman314]

In my high school history class, I always thought that we should conclude the WWI unit with some sort of team game of Diplomacy. It would be awesome.

[Davio]

If I were a teacher, I would use games all the time to make the stuffy material come to live.

Diplomacy for History obviously, but also medieval or Roman/Greek themed games.
For maths I there are a lot of interesting choices.

[cayvie]

isn't there also a 35-player variant where every supply center on a regular dip board is a 1-center nation

[Grujah]

If I were a teacher, I would use games all the time to make the stuffy material come to live.

Diplomacy for History obviously, but also medieval or Roman/Greek themed games.
For maths I there are a lot of interesting choices.

I'm pretty sure Tom Vasel does this, he also plays Werewolf/Mafia with class.

[Davio]

isn't there also a 35-player variant where every supply center on a regular dip board is a 1-center nation

Yup, I saw it when browsing through the jDip supported variants.

[jotheonah]

Actually my local game store is running "Back To School" themed game sessions, named after a school subject and teaching a game. Like "History - 7 Wonders" and "Health - Pandemic." Sort of a fun thing.

[gman314]

isn't there also a 35-player variant where every supply center on a regular dip board is a 1-center nation

Yup, I saw it when browsing through the jDip supported variants.

It's actually 34-player, but yes, it does exist.

[Davio]

isn't there also a 35-player variant where every supply center on a regular dip board is a 1-center nation

Yup, I saw it when browsing through the jDip supported variants.

It's actually 34-player, but yes, it does exist.

You have to be pretty unlucky to not make the cut for a 34 player game.

[Galzria]

Need Host, Will Play!