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[faust]

Consider this from D1:

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?

Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This sounds nice and everything, but those three votes happened in his first 13 posts (joth-iguana-joth-jimmm votes), and that early one of those could very well have been a vote on a partner.  So while it sounds super neat and all, it is a total deflection that a casual reader takes as a townie point for faust. I think it is scummy.

If you can make a better case for yourself being town at that stage of the game then I'm eager to hear it.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Ok, so that's my bad. Sparknotes is a really common tool that American public school kids use in literature classes. Basically, it summarizes the main points and themes and stuff of a book so that the kids don't have to actually read the book and can still pass a test about it.

So, when I said I was looking for the sparknotes version, I meant I was looking for a quick summary of why Joth looked scummy in the game you referenced because I didn't have time to read it and form my own opinion.

None of this is really relevant anymore but that's where our misunderstanding came from.

[MiX]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

No. I presumed you meant notes about the spark game.

Ok, so that's my bad. Sparknotes is a really common tool that American public school kids use in literature classes. Basically, it summarizes the main points and themes and stuff of a book so that the kids don't have to actually read the book and can still pass a test about it.

So, when I said I was looking for the sparknotes version, I meant I was looking for a quick summary of why Joth looked scummy in the game you referenced because I didn't have time to read it and form my own opinion.

None of this is really relevant anymore but that's where our misunderstanding came from.

Oh, then I did answer your question properly the first time!

[iguanaiguana]

Lol : (

I think what you meant then and meant now is that you don't actually have any conclusions about Joth's scum meta from the game you linked, but what you wanted was for me to read it and form MY conclusions and tell you about them.

I can only assume you are doing this out of some machiavellian ploy to divine my alignment. Nevertheless, I will do what you want in due time when I get a chance to sit down and look.

[2.71828.....]

Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

I realize I'm after those 10 minutes, and I'm guessing you voted me solely for self-preservation since I had the most votes. But you really should have looked at one of the people others have actually expressed a willingness to vote for. Someone whose some will actually give us reads on other people once we see a flip.

I honestly don't get the votes on me. There's nothing to defend against.

e voted me early, hasn't moved, hasn't participated much.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).

gkrieg had a naked vote, I believe as well. And he hasn't said much else... regarding me or others. Just let the vote stick.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.

I like this post.  Just honest run-through on the wagon.  2 lurker votes, good vote from iguana, self-preservation from Jimmmmm.  Feels like frustrated town (maybe frustrated isn't the right word, but something along those lines). My reread leaves me much townier on math.

vote: faust

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up on faust? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

[MiX]

Lol : (

I think what you meant then and meant now is that you don't actually have any conclusions about Joth's scum meta from the game you linked, but what you wanted was for me to read it and form MY conclusions and tell you about them.

I can only assume you are doing this out of some machiavellian ploy to divine my alignment. Nevertheless, I will do what you want in due time when I get a chance to sit down and look.

It's because I never actually read that game to read joth this game. In fact, I barely even read that game overall, and I played in it!

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up on faust? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

What do you mean opened up?

[2.71828.....]

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up [D2] on faustmathdude? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

sorry, I was thinking a name and typed another one

[MiX]

MiX, did you ever talk about why you opened up [D2] on faustmathdude? Don't answer, I am reading you next.  I will find it if it is there.

sorry, I was thinking a name and typed another one

I think he's scummy, and someone that I felt like people voted without saying much D1, so he seemed like the best person to solve. Also someone I'm okay with "oops you've been the wagon for the entirety of D2, guess you die" for him.

[2.71828.....]

also, interesting note:

faust + MiX have 265 posts / 882 total posts (including pre-game, too lazy to remove).  30% of all posts are from those two individuals. Just factoids to consider.

[jotheonah]

I'm sorry but the case for faust is not forthcoming because I have decided that faust is probably town for reasons. I will continue re-reading and come at you guys with a great, wonderful, game-changing case on someone else TBD.

Unvote

[MiX]

I'm sorry but the case for faust is not forthcoming because I have decided that faust is probably town for reasons. I will continue re-reading and come at you guys with a great, wonderful, game-changing case on someone else TBD.

Unvote

I'm so happy I decided to vote math instead of you. It's like I'm improving!

Welcome to the town, joth!

[Dylan32]

"Blue and I left electrical together. We were together the whole round, so it couldn't have been Blue," replied Black. Blue agreed, "I don't know who did it, but it wasn't Black. Who else was on the left side of the map?"  Nobody answered...

Vote Count 2.2

mathdude (2): MiX, EFHW
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (2): , iguanaiguana, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, WestCoastDidds, mathdude, jotheonah

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.

[2.71828.....]

I like MiX's game.  I did read MiX very much in light of the fact that while both faust and MiX could be town, I seriously doubt they are both scum.

There are playstyle differences that are obvious, but nothing about MiX's posts felt off to me. Not afraid to prod the game along, actively working for more involvement toward the end of D1, everything felt very town to me.

[WestCoastDidds]

I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

But also, honest question, do you know what spark notes is?

I call it cliff notes!

[WestCoastDidds]

I am glad to see e showing up. I also think Joth's lack of a case on faust is interesting. It makes him feel more town for me, but I am not sure exactly why.

More concerning is this dude:

Still need to catch up. We’ll probably do it tomorrow.

This is the entirety of his D2 so far. He tends to show up and respond in clumps so maybe that is coming, but the sheer length of lurk is impressive.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: faust

When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana

[2.71828.....]

so, read joth, faust, math, MiX, LL, and iguana.  From that group I would say:

more scummy: faust, iguana
more towny: joth, math, MiX

I am suspicious of my fellow lurkers, especially because of the no exile on D1, but I like my vote where it is at for now.  Remind me to read EFHW, Swowl, Didds, and gkrieg later. I don't need to read Jimmmmm, I am confident in my D1 read that he is town.

[mathdude]

Hmm. Let it be known that was a townie post.

Except that he didn't address the odd reaction to iguana, and focused on completeness instead, which no one had mentioned.

Just skimming to keep up. I'll read in more detail tomorrow morning. And I will reread and post my thoughts on iguana tomorrow too (when I'm sitting at the computer). And my incomplete post is actually related to my odd reaction to iguana, as will become clear at that time.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: faust

When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

Interested in hearing more about your faust vote. Seems very....random? I mean, you vote faust then just completely ignore both before and after.  By my count, you have 4 posts interacting with faust prior to your vote and a single post after your "when you can't find scum its faust" post. Did you even look at faust or just felt like you could get some traction on faust because no one will take the time to reread everything he posted and you can build a wagon of people who start getting antsy when faust stays alive too long (thinking of the whole "If Robz is alive D4 he is scum" line of thinking, which I know faust has experienced as well)?

I don't know, your vote just doesn't sit well with me. 

vote: iguana

I did explain my vote more when I responded to math who also questioned my vote, so look for that post.

No I have not reread Faust or anyone since start of D2 yet. So right now I am working on memory of things that occured and what I reread during N1. I do intend to look back at Faust and others, but I really honestly believe that the best way to catch Faust is PoE and that is based on the historical fact that I have failed to read him correctly again and again across many years of playing with him.... All the way to my very first game in 2015.

[MiX]

I've read like nothing today.

I'll write here that I'll reread math tomorrow or friday. I might not.

[iguanaiguana]

ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

You ISO by reading a player's posting history? I ISO by ctrl Fing something unique in their profile or signature.

Found this while ISOing you looking for that Joth game.

[gkrieg13]

Still haven’t reread. I have just been reading things while I have time. Nothing has convinced me that mathdude is not scum yet.

Vote: mathdude

[iguanaiguana]

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game.

So, I was reading this game, and I was like, holy crap, Joth is playing so good here. I knew he was scum, did not know his partners (except McMc, who flipped D1), did not know his role. Then... this:

I found the traitor role to be very freeing. My reads were fake, but my interactions were genuine, which made the game like 50% easier, if that makes sense.

See, I think I get Joth. He has a really hard time with scum because he thrives on uncertainty. Knowing his partners takes the uncertainty out of the game and replaces it with duplicity, and I think he has a really hard time with that.

As a result, in the one example of a mafia game where he really played his heart out and fooled people, he was a traitor. The uncertainty was very much alive because he didn't know his partners.

So I guess if I am reading Joth correctly here, then that's because we are cut from the same cloth in that way. Both of us really struggle with being mafia. So as someone else who tends to lurk as scum and overplay as town, I guess I am seeing similar things from Joth's record and his current game. So he's actually one of the people I'm more confident in. The fact that he was traitor in that game really seals it.

I think Joth is town.

[WestCoastDidds]

ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

You ISO by reading a player's posting history? I ISO by ctrl Fing something unique in their profile or signature.

Found this while ISOing you looking for that Joth game.

That’s how I do it, too, but the player history is good when you’re on a mobile device

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m not sure scum iguana defends scum Joth this hard