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Author Topic: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Postgame)  (Read 179478 times)

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EFHW

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1200 on: July 21, 2021, 10:18:29 am »

I need to decide by 3:45 today to discard Special Counsel or not.

What do y’all think? Ditch it or let the Pres decide?

You might as well pass it on. That will give us more time to decide what to do.
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gkrieg13

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1201 on: July 21, 2021, 02:22:27 pm »

I woke up too early, checked thread and thought, omg, scola is scum! So I voted. Then checked the vc and added the belated E-1. Then I thought, no one else is around. So I used one of my powers to sway the public vote.

Ok, I think I believe you then.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 3)
« Reply #1202 on: July 21, 2021, 02:23:49 pm »

Day 3 Final Vote Count

Jack Rudd (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (5): MiX, Jack Rudd, Glooble, EFHW, Public
gkrieg13 (1): Swowl
MiX (1): scolapasta

Not Voting (2): Cylons, gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it took 5 to exile.

So to those who think there was someone bussing, do you think it is more likely Jack Rudd or Glooble?
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gkrieg13

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1203 on: July 21, 2021, 02:25:19 pm »

This is the order I would choose:

Swowl
Jack
Glooble
Didds
Gkrieg

This can only help us with Special Counsel, so I don't see that as a reason to hold off.

I think I agree with this order, except maybe the top three being Glooble, Jack, Swowl, but I think it doesn't really matter in the long run.
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gkrieg13

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1204 on: July 21, 2021, 02:26:29 pm »

I think we should try to get through the massclaim quickly though, so we have plenty of time left in the day.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1205 on: July 21, 2021, 02:46:35 pm »

Ok, Swowl you're up.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1206 on: July 21, 2021, 02:47:30 pm »

This is the order I would choose:

Swowl
Jack
Glooble
Didds
Gkrieg

This can only help us with Special Counsel, so I don't see that as a reason to hold off.

I think I agree with this order, except maybe the top three being Glooble, Jack, Swowl, but I think it doesn't really matter in the long run.

Glooble has partially claimed, so let's hear from Swowl.
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faust

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Night 3)
« Reply #1207 on: July 21, 2021, 03:45:33 pm »

Vote Count 4.2

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Swowl, gkrieg13, Glooble, Cylons, Dylan32, LaLight

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to exile. Day 4 ends July 26, 2021, 03:45:00 pm.

Dylan32 and LaLight have rejoined the game!

The following Executive Order is added to the Executive Order discard pile:
Quote
Course to Earth
Trigger a turning point. Remove this from the game.
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Swowl

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1208 on: July 21, 2021, 04:04:54 pm »

cool. That simplifies things.

Everyone still want me to go first?

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1209 on: July 21, 2021, 04:06:44 pm »

sort of simplifies things.
I would like a confirmation that EFHW has won the presidency before claiming. But other than that I now have no issues at all.

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1210 on: July 21, 2021, 04:22:15 pm »

vote: LaLight
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Dylan32

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1211 on: July 21, 2021, 04:34:52 pm »

Ay, it's good to be back. So our mission was a success. We found Kobol, collected information about Earth (in the sense of being told we collected info, not so much in a we have specific things to say about it), and now we have the opportunity when the deck is reshuffled to set a course for Earth. Other possible outcomes that LL and I know about: Lie and instead of course to Earth, it would be Course to nowhere, although all of you would think it was a course to Earth; report the mission as a failure and nothing happens; sabotage the mission and both LL and I would have died. We both had a choice to make to determine that result, but we got to see each others choice, and we both chose to tell the truth about Earth.

Early in the trip, there was an event that required one of us to EVA to repair the hull of our ship, but it exposed the person to radiation. I did the repairs, and during a period of time that mirrored the night phase you all went through targeted me with his curing ability. I was able to "track" (modified special ability specific to that phase of the trip) him to see that he did in fact treat me. So I can confirm LL told the truth about his ability with like 99% confidence. That 1% only is in play if exposing yourself to radiation does not result in an immediate private message that you are in fact sick. So if there is a message in a day or so about me like the one from scola at the start of the day, then LL lied about the ability he targeted me with on the trip.

LL and I fullclaimed to each other before you all started the mass claim out here, so we can go at the end of the order since we can at least make sure the other person's claim doesn't change.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1212 on: July 21, 2021, 04:39:43 pm »

I'm going to try to split thoughts into separate posts instead of wall posting, because I have a lot of thoughts.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1213 on: July 21, 2021, 04:43:00 pm »

To me, unless a straight up cop says otherwise, LL and EFHW are both IC in my mind: LL for choices on the trip that reinforced my former townread, EFHW for using two votes to make sure scola was eliminated. Scum does that exactly 0% of the time there. I was skeptical about EFHW until finding out about the public vote, and assuming that is actually verified clinches it to me.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1214 on: July 21, 2021, 04:52:38 pm »

Dylan and LL need to move to the top of the claim list.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1215 on: July 21, 2021, 05:01:31 pm »

Dylan and LL need to move to the top of the claim list.

At a minimum one of them should be up on the list.
If they can verify they were "Removed" and were unable of messing with our actions last night, whichever one it is can even go after me, I don't care.

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1216 on: July 21, 2021, 05:19:15 pm »

There has been shocking little observation about the flavor of that last flip given how much dialogue there had been in prior days about race and alignment and the implications "cylon extremist" had.

I've never watched the show, but I've read a bit on the wiki. If you look for a "resistance" on any BSG wiki, all I can find is info about a human resistance group. Not every member was human, but most were and finding out one of the members was a cylon was a surprise to them all.

Throughout the aftermath of the gkrieg/mathdude claim, a few people were pretty adamant that we should be exiling cylons, because not only might they be an extremist, but they were probably also the scum team. For a bit I was one of those people, but I already explained why I thought that was the case early in the game. Finding out how the cylon vote actually worked completely wiped out that line of reasoning for me. But a few people kept it up even after we knew the extremist faction existed and that the cylons vote was that faction. It seems very likely that scum was pushing that line of thinking in order to get another misexile or two through before we learned for sure that a normal red scum faction existed AND that said faction is flavor named after a group of humans. For example, see scola in post #926.

Who else did this? Didds.

Kind of softly suggests it here, although it is framed towards the extremist faction pre-math flip.

Hey Dylan - spell it out for the slow folks here - why are you alive if ADK is dead?

I'm not trying to answer for Dylan, but the way I read his explanation it is that it was a wincon requirement that they both be alive, rather than something that tied them together in death.

More thoughts about cylons....

If there is a cylon-extremist faction, it is probably made up of cylons. The "cylons" vote is definitely anti-town to me, and just by virtue of the hidden vote mechanism it suggests there is daychat among them. I am also assuming that the "cylons" vote comes from, you know, cylons. Dylan thinks that he might be a cylon, but he is not part of the cylon vote, but he doesn't actually know if he is a cylon or not.

gkrieg says math is a cylon. We don't know if he is voting with the "cylons" yet, but still, all in all, I think cylons are not good for us.

Holiday weekend, y’all, so I’m expecting low ability to participate.

Having read everything, I am still of the opinion that cylons are not good for us. I also think that if gkrieg’s cop power returns that kind of result, it must be significant in some regard. It seems pointless to have it as a power if the implication of a result is meaningless.

Vote: math

I’m not sold on the idea that math is scum, but I’m still mulling the idea that there might be lots of competing factions, so perhaps scum isn’t the point. I don’t have any good reason to think he’s town.

I still think we should exile a cylon. Math seems somewhat less scummy than Jack. But I think there is no way they are both town. The results, and the responses to them, are confusing to me.

EFHW noticed that pattern in the next post:

scola and Didds are looking scummy to me for their continued support of Cylon=scum. Last game there was a Cylon-aligned scum faction and there were still human-aligned Cylons. I don't like the way gkrieg and math have played their hands, but they are feeling more town. Maybe because they have been more active.

scola perseverating on the results thing seems unnecessary - it's pretty clear the role description just said "investigate" without saying why you would want to know the answer.

vote: scolapasta

I was all set to vote Glooble, but now I'm not sure what to think of his response. Glooble, is your role negative utility for town?

Here, Didds uses mathdude's "result" of cylon on Jack as to keep pushing for the exile there, which is grounded on the assumption that cylon inherently is scum, since a different kind of baddie would most likely be scum unless we are just in multiball.

I can see Math having a result on a Jack (presumably a different kind of baddie) and sharing it knowing that if we brighter Jack, and he flipped baddie, that he’d get an ish-ton of towncred as a result. I don’t think that’s a stretch at all.

Didds was also the first person to suggest letting scola live since they were going to die anyway (as far as I can find without rereading literally everything).

Whew! Thank you, faust. I’m glad you’re okay.

I was voting for gkrieg because I was annoyed at him for shutting down the LL discussion. There isn’t a real wagon there…just two rather rando votes. I think my vote was actually much better placed on

Vote: Jack

I do not have a case on Jack other than math’s result, which was obviously suspect, but he did have investigative powers so not entirely based on nothing. Moreover, while I can’t point to anything Jack has done that is scummy, I also can’t point to anything that is helpful. I recognize that helpful/not helpful is not a terrible impressive decision calculus, but that is where I’m at. I know it can be hard to get into a game when you don’t know quite how to go about it, but I find his lurking to be exactly in line with his first game scumplay.

I am curious about Scola. It is clear that he will die if he doesn’t get some cure, so we either wake up tomorrow with a flip, or he is still here and we know that there is either another curing doc or he doses himself. I’m willing to wait that out because more information will be revealed than would be if he was exiled.

His predicament leads me to think a no exile day wouldn’t be the worst. I’m not sure enough yet to advocate for it, but if he town and he’s going to perish, I’d rather not get it wrong and misexile someone so that we find ourselves tomorrow with a much smaller set of green team.

I just don’t have a strong enough sense or anyone else to risk losing them. Swowl and EFHW are slightly shady to me but only in the sense that I don’t feel us towncoring as strongly as we have in the past. Gkrieg and Glooble are hot and cold in terms of activity, but are generally helpful when they are here. I decided when I became the admiral to trust MiX. Our choices of XOs have generally tracked together and I think are pro-town choices with the exception of Kobol which I now see as not at all helpful, but that wasn’t MiX’s fault.,

Pushes that idea harder here

Claiming would be so much better if LL was here. I'm still saving it for when he arrives.

I might do it today but eeeeeeeeeeeeh it's not like exiling scola today matters, right?

I think that is right. I really do think we get more information about scola if he isn't exiled and we see if he actually has cures he can use or if LL comes back if he is actually willing to help or if we have another doc. If he survives, he can tell us more or we can exile him. I honestly don't see much downside to giving him another night.  BUT...I know I miss things, so if there is a flaw in my thinking, please let me know.

and here

I am cool with a Jack exile or no exile.

I don’t see the upside to exiling Scola. If he doesn’t cure himself, he dies. It’s like an exile we get for free! I do not have strong scummy or no vibes, but I’m not willing to trust MiX on exiling him now  without more information.

I’m heading out for the afternoon/evening (happy weekend everyone!) so I’ll be around just before I go to bed tonight, but likely not at deadline.

She then followed gkrieg in supporting the theory that EFHW was just trying to bus scola with the X-1 vote, which I guess isn't an inherently scummy opinion, but it is incorrectly grabbing at something to try to make someone else who would otherwise get town points look scummy.

Hmmm...  I am not as sure as Swowl and Glooble that this is a bad case on face.  (I'm not advocating, just thinking it through)

Scum narrative.... In the morning, the only people around were EFHW, Scola, and MiX. Jack was already voting for Scola.  If EFHW is Scola's partner, it would make sense that she was up and wanted to see if he made it out alive. She can increase her credibility and create some distance between them by bussing Scola.  It's an hour until deadline and no one is around because it is before dawn for WCD, Swowl, and gkrieg. The cylons vote hasn't moved...there is no else that can vote for scola who is awake. She can make that vote and be mostly sure that he would not be hammered.

I'm not sure that takes huge leaps of imagination. Really, the only question is does EFHW bus her partner in a situation where she can be fairly certain that they will not be exiled.

Glooble... what would have have been the riskiness of that move?

I hadn't really intended for this post to turn into a case on Didds, but I guess it is.

ppe 2
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Dylan32

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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1217 on: July 21, 2021, 05:25:42 pm »

Dylan and LL need to move to the top of the claim list.

At a minimum one of them should be up on the list.
If they can verify they were "Removed" and were unable of messing with our actions last night, whichever one it is can even go after me, I don't care.

--snip--

faust, can the special counsel card be used on Dylan?
Special Counsel, as any action, can only target players that are in the game at the time of enactment.

We weren't in the game, and you couldn't do things that targeted us, so why would we be able to target you? We didn't have a normal night anyway. We had a point where we could privately choose to do 1 of 4 things, and one of those things was to target the other person with one of our regular abilities. Another option was to see which of the 4 the other person on the mission chose. I chose to see what LL did, and I got confirmation LL did the one that targeted me with one of his abilities.

Now to claiming, how does having one of us jump the order help anything? There was a NK while we were gone and unable to target any of you. Unless we have a 4 person (+?) scum team WITH an at least two person 3rd party, one of us is for sure town, so neither of us can really change our story from what we said before. Moving either of us up in the order just gives scum more info to craft potential fake claims.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1218 on: July 21, 2021, 05:27:30 pm »

Really, if either of us is scum, we're already locked into our claim because the other person will call out the change. Even if you think neither of us are town, we aren't both scum because NK, and we probably aren't both cylon extremists because of numbers and game balance, so even if we are each one of those, we aren't the same team and would call each other out. There is no upside to either of us going early in the order.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1219 on: July 21, 2021, 05:28:48 pm »

No upside for town anyway, if you are scum (like I think Didds probably is), then yeah I get why you want us at the top so badly.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1220 on: July 21, 2021, 05:29:50 pm »

Oh, and I'm probably going to vote for Didds, but I'm gonna wait until after the mass claim anyway.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1221 on: July 21, 2021, 05:31:54 pm »

Another random thought: I don't believe there's any chance scum was busing scola on that final wagon. If there had really been 5 people on the wagon, maybe, but the way things were going and the fact EFHW had to use two votes to make it happen, scum was off wagon.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1222 on: July 21, 2021, 05:36:24 pm »

Another random thought: I don't believe there's any chance scum was busing scola on that final wagon. If there had really been 5 people on the wagon, maybe, but the way things were going and the fact EFHW had to use two votes to make it happen, scum was off wagon.

The only possible exception to that in my mind is maybe Glooble because of posts #1000 and #1029 where they echoed the "why exile scola if he's dying anyway" and then agreed when scola threw suspicion at MiX during the claiming conflict, but then at #1060 voted for scola. At that point, it's possible that they thought scola would escape the exile and busing before not being on at the deadline was a good idea, but also they could have voted for Jack or something and maybe built momentum that direction instead. On the whole, probably not busing, but is basically the only possible busing narrative I saw.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1223 on: July 21, 2021, 06:32:53 pm »

oh, we're back! I'll be here tomorrow, everything Dylan said about the trip is true.
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Re: RMM61: Battlestar Galactica - Season 2 (Day 4)
« Reply #1224 on: July 21, 2021, 06:45:26 pm »

Not to derail the claiming plan, but I'd really like to hear from both Dylan and LaLight as to why they immediately volunteered for the mission before there was any time for town to discuss who was going. Especially LaLight, given the whole "I can save scola! Bye!" situation.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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