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[LaLight]

Yeah, if we have a town vig they have some explaining to do.

Simplest explanation is that a red colored faction NKed ashersky, and often simple answers are correct

this is indeed true, I was just saying that this might support my theory, but I am not married to this theory

[mathdude]

I will probably post a barrage of responses to specific posts over the next couple hours, since there's a lot I want to reply to. They are responses specific to the quoted posts, but with an awareness of everything that has been posted to date.

Damn, the one game I was agreeing with ash, and he dies...I guess it makes sense he didn't flip town, but still.

I would like everyone that used a Vigil ability to claim as such. I didn't.

It makes sense ash didn't flip town, and you were agreeing with him... because you're aligned with him?

And you want everyone to claim whether they used Vigil ability because... it helps town? It helps your faction? Or helps your personal character arc?

I will say I didn't. But I won't say whether I could have or not.

[mathdude]

Cavil (#1) is definitely a Cylon extremist in the show.

The executive orders currently sitting in the discard pile are Military Police Force and Special Counsel. This tells us very little about the president and the admiral, except that they don't have the trust in each other necessary for either of those to have gone through.

No shit, it was me and ash. Why did you decide to say this publicly anyway?

Did you see Jack role-claim D1 under about 2 votes? It looks like he wants to share everything with the world!

[mathdude]

So, folks who know…what does it mean to be lover-aligned? I don’t know that term other than the dual death it caused in memento.

And Ash’s yellow meant he was a baddie? Maybe part of the “cylons” vote?

For lovers, my only reference also is that when one dies, the other does too (not strictly referencing Memento mafia game, but when I used to play on another site years ago too). This is new... and it's even more odd that ADK was aligned with 2 "factions".

I'm also wondering about Ash's colour. It's not town. It's not typical 3rd party I don't think? And it's not typical red scum colour. It's clearly non-town (likely anti-town?). Does that mean there's probably more than 1 scum faction?

[mathdude]

I actually lean into thinking there is no scum: just factions with different wincons and who knows if these wincons are mutually exclusive. I mean I can believe into one faction having a wincon of "kill a person with this flavor name and a person with this flavor name" and another faction "no deaths for 2 days" and another faction "don't let all of you die by the end of D3" and such. I would so not put that above faust to make a game where everyone can win.

I guess this is further thoughts about game setup and my comments on ash's colour and alignment. But it also makes me think you are non-town with an odd wincon. As per your post, you're treating town as one of the factions (since you listed "no deaths for 2 days" in there).

Town wincon:

You win when there have been 2 Days and Nights in a row without someone being removed from the game and there is at least one Town-aligned player left alive, or when Town is the biggest faction in the game when the game ends. You earn 5 points from winning.

It is definitely worded different than usual. Sounds like the game can end possibly a number of different ways, and we do not necessarily need to remove all the baddies to win.

But like I said, at this point, it seems to me like LL is in a non-town faction.

[mathdude]

This is the day where we stop being hostile towards one another. Until this doesn't go away, we're not moving our votes, and nothing we say will the productive.

I believe you are scum: specifically, of an alignment that hasn't flipped yet, most likely behind ash's kill. What do you think I am?

It's really hard for me to play with you. I don't feel like you listen to others and I don't feel that if you set your mind to something, it can be changed other than by yourself, and this hurts town, because we should work as a team. I have no slightest idea what faction you are and I can't read you, never could.

+1 (thumbs up)

I have trouble reading MiX in general too. And I think this series of games makes it even harder, since he may sometimes be playing for a personal character arc slightly more than his faction win.

But at the moment, I'm town-reading him more than you.

[mathdude]

I agree with MiX that a true scum alignment exists.

Disagree that lalight belongs to said scum alignment

Why do you not think LL "belongs to said scum alignment"? Are you in the same alignment as LL?

[mathdude]

My gut reaction says whoever NKed ashersky was primarily attempting to get a civilian as the admiral. Pure speculation but it makes sense to me.

Didn’t Ash get to name his successor? Why would he have chosen a civilian?

Admiral ability:

Select successor. At any time, you may choose another player. When you are removed from the game, they will become Admiral. You may change a choice, but you may not undo it. If you did not make a choice by the time you are removed from the game, a random military player becomes Admiral.

So if he chooses, then he might accidentally pick civilian and trigger turning point (though it wouldn't affect him as he would be out of the game if that happens). If he doesn't choose, it guarantees no turning point.

There was no turning point, so new admiral is military. But we still don't know if ash chose or let it be random. I'm not even sure if it would help us in any way even if we did know.

[mathdude]

Ash died somehow. If we believe that there's no main scum, then whoever killed ash is not playing for town's faction. Given ash's the one that died, and that there's a lover that is also town, all points to there being another scum.

Are you the other lover-aligned?

No.

Then how do you know the other lover (assuming there's one) is also town? I could easily imagine a scenario with two lovers in different factions ala Romeo and Juliet.

I have seen this in the distant past as well. If this is the case, then we probably won't hear from any other lover-aligned players. But if others are town, then if there's any helpful info, I hope it does come public at some point.

[MiX]

I will probably post a barrage of responses to specific posts over the next couple hours, since there's a lot I want to reply to. They are responses specific to the quoted posts, but with an awareness of everything that has been posted to date.

Damn, the one game I was agreeing with ash, and he dies...I guess it makes sense he didn't flip town, but still.

I would like everyone that used a Vigil ability to claim as such. I didn't.

It makes sense ash didn't flip town, and you were agreeing with him... because you're aligned with him?

And you want everyone to claim whether they used Vigil ability because... it helps town? It helps your faction? Or helps your personal character arc?

I will say I didn't. But I won't say whether I could have or not.

No, me and ash never agree when we're the same alignment.

I think it helps town, yes. This game's night actions seem important, with the radiation and all, and I think claiming Vigil actions is safe since it says nothing about your current role, other than you decided not to do anything related to your role tonight (or that you did). This seems to pale in comparison to the value we get from sharing our Vigil night actions, that I don't really know what they are, but I presume are overall helpful.

Good, that's exactly what I want to hear.

So, folks who know…what does it mean to be lover-aligned? I don’t know that term other than the dual death it caused in memento.

And Ash’s yellow meant he was a baddie? Maybe part of the “cylons” vote?

For lovers, my only reference also is that when one dies, the other does too (not strictly referencing Memento mafia game, but when I used to play on another site years ago too). This is new... and it's even more odd that ADK was aligned with 2 "factions".

I'm also wondering about Ash's colour. It's not town. It's not typical 3rd party I don't think? And it's not typical red scum colour. It's clearly non-town (likely anti-town?). Does that mean there's probably more than 1 scum faction?

I have my own thoughts about the lovers faction, but I guess people don't like to hear what I think about things with no proof, so I'll refrain from saying it.

A yellow color flip in any other RMM would have me immediately say "there's another faction that is true scum". Here? Maybe not, but I do think the kill points to that being true. If ash flipped during the day, that'd be a different story.

My gut reaction says whoever NKed ashersky was primarily attempting to get a civilian as the admiral. Pure speculation but it makes sense to me.

Didn’t Ash get to name his successor? Why would he have chosen a civilian?

Admiral ability:

Select successor. At any time, you may choose another player. When you are removed from the game, they will become Admiral. You may change a choice, but you may not undo it. If you did not make a choice by the time you are removed from the game, a random military player becomes Admiral.

So if he chooses, then he might accidentally pick civilian and trigger turning point (though it wouldn't affect him as he would be out of the game if that happens). If he doesn't choose, it guarantees no turning point.

There was no turning point, so new admiral is military. But we still don't know if ash chose or let it be random. I'm not even sure if it would help us in any way even if we did know.

I don't think ash would've left it to be random. I really don't see the point, for ash, or his alignment. We also know that he didn't decide to pick a civilian (that would've been easy, e claimed civilian, even if he didn't want to pick me), which points to ash not wanting a turning point. Swowl's point of "well ash would probably always want a turning point" is a good indicator that ash's alignment/role didn't want the turning point. Honestly, all of this combined points to Didds being picked by ash, which is incriminating.


There's also another thing: isn't Lee Adama's lover Starbucks? It's been a while since I read the wiki, but I think this is true. Can anyone confirm?

[Glooble]

Confirmed. The man loves his pumpkin spice lattes.

[MiX]

Confirmed. The man loves his pumpkin spice lattes.

Thank you Glooble.

So...being both the Admiral and lore-lover with ADK, Didds...doesn't seem town.

Does this make sense?

[faust]

Vote Count 2.1

LaLight (1): MiX
MiX (1): LaLight
mathdude (1): gkrieg13
Jack Rudd (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (9): Jack Rudd, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, scolapasta, Dylan32, Swowl, Glooble, mathdude, Cylons

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 2 ends July 07, 2021, 03:15:00 pm.

[EFHW]

Here is a lot of the information we collected last game:

For reference, this is what I've got in terms of people's claims, including my assumptions about military/non-military and some testing results, so please let me know if anything is wrong or if it's missing any key pieces:
1. Jack Rudd -- Saul Tigh, military
2. SpaceAnemone (now gkrieg) -- Gaeta, military
3. WestCoastDidds -- Starbuck, in pilots QT, military
4. MiX -- Baltar, civilian
5. EFHW -- Duala, possibly cylon species through LL's D1 result, military
6. scolapasta -- Bill Adama, military
7. LaLight -- Helo, in pilots QT, military
8. Dylan32 -- Zarek, civilian
9. A Drowned Kernel -- Apollo, tested Human d3, in pilots QT, military
10. Swowl -- Boomer, human-aligned, in pilots QT, military, died n3
11. Robz888 -- Cally, civilian
12. ashersky -- Chief, civilian, tested Cylon d2
13. Awaclus -- Billy, human-aligned, civilian, died n2
14. mathdude -- Roslin, human-aligned, civilian, died mid-d1

As Ashersky has said all along, the civilian-vs-military distinction for the deck crew members (Cally and the Chief) may be a blurry line.

I don't think either of the tests was yet trustworthy:
Mix claimed at #1264 to have picked "cylon" on N1 and "human" on N2.
D2 test: Only "cylon" from Mix? -> Fits with Ash getting cylon result
D3 test: 2*human ->  fits with ADK getting human result
D4 test: Only my setting?

[EFHW]

I'll update when I have more time, or someone else can.

[scolapasta]

I don't scumread e. Would gladly vote for ADK, EFHW, math.

But also consider any X-1 a hammer.

This. What does this mean?

Huh. At the time (I think) I had read this as X-1 lets "Cylons" hammer.

That I would hammer anyone that got to X-1

[scolapasta]

Quote fail:

I don't scumread e. Would gladly vote for ADK, EFHW, math.

But also consider any X-1 a hammer.

This. What does this mean?

That I would hammer anyone that got to X-1

Huh. At the time (I think) I had read this as X-1 lets "Cylons" hammer.

That I would hammer anyone that got to X-1

[scolapasta]

So, folks who know…what does it mean to be lover-aligned? I don’t know that term other than the dual death it caused in memento.

...

For lovers, my only reference also is that when one dies, the other does too (not strictly referencing Memento mafia game, but when I used to play on another site years ago too). This is new... and it's even more odd that ADK was aligned with 2 "factions".

...

The thing is, it's not the role "Lover" which has been a role I've (and we've) seen. It's Lover-Aligned. So, I don't think I would've expected someone else to die with them. Just that he and one (or maybe more?) players have an alternative or additional win con.

[scolapasta]

Confirmed. The man loves his pumpkin spice lattes.

Thank you Glooble.

So...being both the Admiral and lore-lover with ADK, Didds...doesn't seem town.

Does this make sense?

I'll ask Jack (as our resident BSG expert) to confirm, but Lee was married to Dee (that's EFHW, right?). Though the WCD one does fit the "unrequited lovers" type of scenario. But I'd also be hesitant to put much weight in love from the story, as that seems to help "solve" the game too much.

In S1, Lee Adama was a 3rd part when Baltar was not, which doesn't feel story right.

[scolapasta]

Here is a lot of the information we collected last game:

For reference, this is what I've got in terms of people's claims, including my assumptions about military/non-military and some testing results, so please let me know if anything is wrong or if it's missing any key pieces:
1. Jack Rudd -- Saul Tigh, military
2. SpaceAnemone (now gkrieg) -- Gaeta, military
3. WestCoastDidds -- Starbuck, in pilots QT, military
4. MiX -- Baltar, civilian
5. EFHW -- Duala, possibly cylon species through LL's D1 result, military
6. scolapasta -- Bill Adama, military
7. LaLight -- Helo, in pilots QT, military
8. Dylan32 -- Zarek, civilian
9. A Drowned Kernel -- Apollo, tested Human d3, in pilots QT, military
10. Swowl -- Boomer, human-aligned, in pilots QT, military, died n3
11. Robz888 -- Cally, civilian
12. ashersky -- Chief, civilian, tested Cylon d2
13. Awaclus -- Billy, human-aligned, civilian, died n2
14. mathdude -- Roslin, human-aligned, civilian, died mid-d1

As Ashersky has said all along, the civilian-vs-military distinction for the deck crew members (Cally and the Chief) may be a blurry line.

I don't think either of the tests was yet trustworthy:
Mix claimed at #1264 to have picked "cylon" on N1 and "human" on N2.
D2 test: Only "cylon" from Mix? -> Fits with Ash getting cylon result
D3 test: 2*human ->  fits with ADK getting human result
D4 test: Only my setting?

Correction:

Jack was a civilian in S1. He had a weird role that was civilian, but the fake claim was military. I actually thought I had killed the game for us when I said something about that in the main thread (effectively outing both him and me), but luckily no one actually caught it at the time.

[MiX]

Confirmed. The man loves his pumpkin spice lattes.

Thank you Glooble.

So...being both the Admiral and lore-lover with ADK, Didds...doesn't seem town.

Does this make sense?

I'll ask Jack (as our resident BSG expert) to confirm, but Lee was married to Dee (that's EFHW, right?). Though the WCD one does fit the "unrequited lovers" type of scenario. But I'd also be hesitant to put much weight in love from the story, as that seems to help "solve" the game too much.

In S1, Lee Adama was a 3rd part when Baltar was not, which doesn't feel story right.

As much as I agree it's not deterministic, it would have to be based on the show. So, the lovers thing needs to fit, one way or another. My personal goal, and the information I got with my previous role, seemed to match my character (seen in a positive light, given I was town).

Correction:

Jack was a civilian in S1. He had a weird role that was civilian, but the fake claim was military. I actually thought I had killed the game for us when I said something about that in the main thread (effectively outing both him and me), but luckily no one actually caught it at the time.

Were any of you military?

And yeah, this is especially lacking the actual characters of the scum team. I would update it, but I think it makes more sense for a cylon to do that.

[Swowl]

Quote fail:

I don't scumread e. Would gladly vote for ADK, EFHW, math.

But also consider any X-1 a hammer.

This. What does this mean?

That I would hammer anyone that got to X-1

Huh. At the time (I think) I had read this as X-1 lets "Cylons" hammer.

That I would hammer anyone that got to X-1

also how I read it. That is why I wanted them to answer first

[WestCoastDidds]

C’mon MiX…no way Ash puts his yellow buddy in the Admiral role, assuming his buddy (or buddies) are military. It’s too much scrutiny. He either chose me because he didn’t want a turning point, or he had a good feeling I was town and/or not against his alliance. Or he didn’t chose and I randomed up.

If I didn’t trust you there is no way I give you pardon power. Think about it… if I’m a baddie, you’re a great misexile and there is plenty of trepidation about you generally, and then we have LL and mathdude who don’t need much reason to vote for you.

Well, I trust you but I’m not sure what it takes for me to earn your trust. It feels like my tussle with LL last game where he just  oiling not scumread me even though I wasn’t scum. I don’t know how to get out from under distrust even when there is evidence to the contrary.

[Jack Rudd]

My real character in S1 was Leoben Conoy, aka Cylon #2.

[WestCoastDidds]

C’mon MiX…no way Ash puts his yellow buddy in the Admiral role, assuming his buddy (or buddies) are military. It’s too much scrutiny. He either chose me because he didn’t want a turning point, or he had a good feeling I was town and/or not against his alliance. Or he didn’t chose and I randomed up.

If I didn’t trust you there is no way I give you pardon power. Think about it… if I’m a baddie, you’re a great misexile and there is plenty of trepidation about you generally, and then we have LL and mathdude who don’t need much reason to vote for you.

Well, I trust you but I’m not sure what it takes for me to earn your trust. It feels like my tussle with LL last game where he just couldn’t not scumread me even though I wasn’t scum. I don’t know how to get out from under distrust even when there is evidence to the contrary.

Weird typo was making me crazy.