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[MiX]

Also I'm still waiting on someone to help me out on this.

Ok, what am I missing... we have a claim and a counterclaim and people don’t want to exile either of them? Am I on PUNK’D? Someone explain this to me using small words.

faust won't explain, ash will neither, I don't think you'd understand me even if I tried, and I don't think EFHW has properly internalized what's happening yet.

I agree that town!ash would also be able to pinpoint 1 scum in 3 players. But scum!ash can also know both scum: if he's a traitor, for example.

Wait, the Traitor knows who the mafia are? Where did you obtain this information?

It's in the "standard" definition of traitor on mafiascum so I've just been assuming it's true here.

Swowl, can you confirm that a traitor, if there is one, would know who their partners are?

And also:

If scum shoots the traitor, are they recruited?

I presume not, but as the Vig, I really want the 1-shot bulletproof to only stop me.

[MiX]

Just to be sure -- Would a vigged traitor be recruited instead of dying?

If scum shoots the traitor, are they recruited?

Boy do I feel stupid right now.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also I'm still waiting on someone to help me out on this.

Ok, what am I missing... we have a claim and a counterclaim and people don’t want to exile either of them? Am I on PUNK’D? Someone explain this to me using small words.

Same, same.

Come on, MiX. I know you can do it!

[MiX]

Also I'm still waiting on someone to help me out on this.

Ok, what am I missing... we have a claim and a counterclaim and people don’t want to exile either of them? Am I on PUNK’D? Someone explain this to me using small words.

Same, same.

Come on, MiX. I know you can do it!

Fine! But I'll do it for you, not joth.

So, from how I understand it, ash is simultaneously claiming 1 of 3 things:

- ash is a PR, and this is his way of living next night while simultaneously letting me live, which means he saves 2 PRs at once. Scum won't kill him because...

- ash is Traitor, and he's quite literally counterclaiming me. Town doesn't exile him because of the first case, and scum doesn't NK him. When I die, he'll simply claim the first (or third) case.

- ash is a VT, and is doing this because he thinks there's no PRs or just because he townreads me, perhaps so scum NKs him if they recruited the traitor.

Of course, he can be normal scum, but he's not claiming that.

Now, which of these is it? I have no idea. But this is my rationalization of this play.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

[MiX]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

Because it's ash. To be fair, I am voting for him.

[WestCoastDidds]

Last question (for now)... why are we trying to ascertain that if scum shoots the traitor, they are recruited? Is there some other way to recruit them?

[faust]

Last question (for now)... why are we trying to ascertain that if scum shoots the traitor, they are recruited? Is there some other way to recruit them?

Yes, a pregame modification that can be chosen by scum.

[WestCoastDidds]

Last question (for now)... why are we trying to ascertain that if scum shoots the traitor, they are recruited? Is there some other way to recruit them?

Yes, a pregame modification that can be chosen by scum.

So, if they chose that they started with 3 scum? and if they didn’t the traitor has to be recruited? Or does the traitor inherit the scum role?

[faust]

Last question (for now)... why are we trying to ascertain that if scum shoots the traitor, they are recruited? Is there some other way to recruit them?

Yes, a pregame modification that can be chosen by scum.

So, if they chose that they started with 3 scum? and if they didn’t the traitor has to be recruited? Or does the traitor inherit the scum role?

Yes.
It's unclear and what we are trying to find out. There is no such mechanic mentioned in the setup, so I would assume that nothing special happens when mafia shoots the Traitor.
The Traitor gets the nightkill when the other mafia members are dead; this part is in the setup.

[gkrieg13]

What did I start? A meaningless day 1 wagon?

Oh I actually thought it was a good wagon before you called it meaningless. Let’s start a meaningful one. Vote: joth

Votes joth early as kind of an after-RVS vote. Makes me lean scummier on joth.

Is it just me, or did you say you thought joth was scummy because mcmc voted for him early, and then do a full 180 and agree with me that it actually makes joth seem townier, given that I can't find evidence of mcmc bussing during d1 in any recent scumgames?

In contrast to my scumpoint allocation for faust and Dylan, I think joth gets an allocation of townpoints, because looking back at a few of mcmc's prior scum-games, he's really not one to bus D1.

Yup, agree with Space here.

PPE 1

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

Actually, what you do is more like a complete 360, since this post comes after:

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW.

True, I don't think joth has done other townie things even though the mcmc stuff give him town points.

[gkrieg13]

Yeah, that was the scummiest post of the game so far... I hate breaking my personal new-guy D1 pass, but, it sounds like you’ve played enough elsewhere to not truly be a newbie, so yeah, this is fine.

Vote: mathdude

I just stumbled upon this post: hmm, Dylan was already voting for math...

I would be very much surprised if there isn't scum in faust/ash/Dylan, they all jumped on the math wagon very quickly, and right as the mcmc wagon was growing.

Vote: Dylan, I also find his play overall scummy, and it's a good SoD2 vote regardless.

I have already seen MiX's claim from later D2, and his other posts here really do look like he thought scum and others had caught on to his breadcrumbing, so I'm inclined to believe him.

What does this post have to do with my claim?

Oops, definitely pulled the wrong quote

So the scummiest person on your list is someone why hasn't done anything townie yet? So basically null?

Considering the actual game posts you'd made at this point, not doing anything townie is the same as being scummy. I mean, at most you voted me D1, and that's just a null-to-scummy thing to do.

You think town are somehow less likely to vote for you D1?

I'm townie on MiX, Space, and ash in that order.

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW. I think EFHW is the scummiest of the three. Still waiting to see how the faust/Space faceoff goes.

Haven't heard much from Didds, although I like what I have seen her post.

Null on Dylan.

Not super strong reads though.
vote: EFHW

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

Don't these posts contradict each other?

PPE: Ah! faust has my locktown status now.

See my response to faust.

[gkrieg13]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

This is interesting.

[gkrieg13]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

Vote: ash

I mean you did claim role cop...

I really think it’s better to find the other mafia member, don’t you?

Especially interesting because ash is not really in any danger of being exiled, so why would he counterclaim, especially so late.

[jotheonah]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

Please join me on the ash wagon.

If I'm understanding MiX correctly, the best-case scenario is that ash is lying town.

EAL.

vote: ashersky

[WestCoastDidds]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

Please join me on the ash wagon.

If I'm understanding MiX correctly, the best-case scenario is that ash is lying town.

EAL.

vote: ashersky

I'm a sucker for the sweet talk, Joth.

Faust, you said that you'd prefer we don't exile either of MiX or Ash.  Is there any reason why that you can share right now?

[gkrieg13]

Can I be IC now?

Lol, you want to be IC from not knowing the setup? Aren't you the one that is always against using this as a townslip?

[gkrieg13]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

I'm pretty sure it is just in one of the cases that he is bad for town, but in that case, it is good for town because it points him out as the traitor, so I'm pretty sure it's win-win-better. Definitely don't want to exile ash now.

[EFHW]

Just to be sure -- <b>Would a vigged traitor be recruited instead of dying?</b>

Is this post a scumslip and a townslip at the same time?

There is no way for a Traitor to be recruited after game start, right?

I asked a related question in my QT a few days ago, so I assume that's why I used QT code by mistake. I thought it was part of the traitor role that if they are nk'd they get recruited instead of dying. Is that just in some games?

[MiX]

Just to be sure -- <b>Would a vigged traitor be recruited instead of dying?</b>

Is this post a scumslip and a townslip at the same time?

There is no way for a Traitor to be recruited after game start, right?

I asked a related question in my QT a few days ago, so I assume that's why I used QT code by mistake. I thought it was part of the traitor role that if they are nk'd they get recruited instead of dying. Is that just in some games?

Yes, although I don't remember a f.ds game that didn't have that.

[EFHW]

I'm glad MiX could come up with some explanation of ash's behavior, because I was very perplexed. I don't completely agree, but I'm starting to see some value in not exiling either of them.

[jotheonah]

I'm glad MiX could come up with some explanation of ash's behavior, because I was very perplexed. I don't completely agree, but I'm starting to see some value in not exiling either of them.

Please, for the love of the mafia gods, articulate that value for us dunces over here that still think we should be exiling people we think are scum.

[faust]

What did I start? A meaningless day 1 wagon?

Oh I actually thought it was a good wagon before you called it meaningless. Let’s start a meaningful one. Vote: joth

Votes joth early as kind of an after-RVS vote. Makes me lean scummier on joth.

Is it just me, or did you say you thought joth was scummy because mcmc voted for him early, and then do a full 180 and agree with me that it actually makes joth seem townier, given that I can't find evidence of mcmc bussing during d1 in any recent scumgames?

In contrast to my scumpoint allocation for faust and Dylan, I think joth gets an allocation of townpoints, because looking back at a few of mcmc's prior scum-games, he's really not one to bus D1.

Yup, agree with Space here.

PPE 1

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

Actually, what you do is more like a complete 360, since this post comes after:

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW.

True, I don't think joth has done other townie things even though the mcmc stuff give him town points.

So when you said you did a complete 180 you were lying? Good to know.

[faust]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

Vote: ash

I mean you did claim role cop...

I really think it’s better to find the other mafia member, don’t you?

Especially interesting because ash is not really in any danger of being exiled, so why would he counterclaim, especially so late.

It was actually his first post since the claim.

[faust]

Thank you!

Okay, so why don’t we exile Ash now? In at least two of those options, he’s bad for town.

Please join me on the ash wagon.

If I'm understanding MiX correctly, the best-case scenario is that ash is lying town.

EAL.

vote: ashersky

I'm a sucker for the sweet talk, Joth.

Faust, you said that you'd prefer we don't exile either of MiX or Ash.  Is there any reason why that you can share right now?

It's because gkrieg is scum.