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[Dylan32]

Sorry I've been so absent today, I'm catching up now.

[MiX]

Are you done gkrieg? I was waiting for you to put down a vote before responding to your posts, but if you have to do a big D1 reread or will be away for a while, I'll just do it some time later.

Sorry I've been so absent today, I'm catching up now.

Ooooh both people I think are scum are rereading, and generally make high effort posts when coming to the thread! This is fun.

[gkrieg13]

Are you done gkrieg? I was waiting for you to put down a vote before responding to your posts, but if you have to do a big D1 reread or will be away for a while, I'll just do it some time later.

Sorry I've been so absent today, I'm catching up now.

Ooooh both people I think are scum are rereading, and generally make high effort posts when coming to the thread! This is fun.

Sorry, got pulled away with other things. I had some outstanding questions in my posts, and I do want to go back and reread D1 before I vote. I also just have to collect my thoughts by rereading the stuff I just wrote.

[gkrieg13]

I'm townie on MiX, Space, and ash in that order.

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW. I think EFHW is the scummiest of the three. Still waiting to see how the faust/Space faceoff goes.

Haven't heard much from Didds, although I like what I have seen her post.

Null on Dylan.

Not super strong reads though.
vote: EFHW

[jotheonah]

Hey gkrieg, were we mafia partners in a previous iteration of this setup?  I have vague recollections of us choosing no PRs and then lying about a bunch of stuff...and of course winning.  (I feel like we win a lot when we are the bad guys.)

Or was that a different setup?

Also, what's it called when you vote someone just for voting you?  Man, it's been a long time since I played.

vote: gkrieg

This is the first post I've found in my reread that struck me as noteworthy. Could be traitor signaling.

[Dylan32]

Ok. I'm caught up. Sorry to disappoint a little bit compared to my normal standards, MiX, but I don't have a ton of time to sit and do a full thing right this second, and there was a lot to keep track of in the last several pages.

Concerning MiX -
MiX, in your quote all of your breadcrumbs, I honestly didn't see anything in there that went beyond the type of, um, let's say exuberant posts that you've done as pretty much any roll.

On your conflict with Space here, I remember one of my earliest games with you, Ash's last scum game I believe, even though I read you as scum incorrectly, I largely followed the logic of your posts and saw them as reasonable, even if you did jump around and change your mind a lot like you do. Like Space said, there were points in this game I really just couldn't follow what you were saying or what your points were, so I get where Space was coming from there. I mean you pulled several separate quotes like a vote for Joth, a stated scum read on math, and said that was proof of the point you are trying to make. Your whole meta (in my mind) is that you jump around, change your mind, push a bunch of different buttons to see what happens, so when you don't explicitly link your thoughts together in thread, it just all looks like noise.

Nice shot.

On faust and Ash -
It's seems interesting to me that D1 they were on the same page at least on mathdude, but they seem to be butting heads a bit today. There's probably nothing there, but a scum in that pair wouldn't surprise me.

Regarding mcmc and setup -
I think I saw that someone mentioned mcmc likely being more hesitant to hammer math given those thoughts if scum hadn't recruited the traitor, but I'm not gonna go back and read all of that again this second, but I tend to agree that makes recruiting more like likely to have been chosen, UNLESS mcmc thought the potential towncred for hammering a traitor was worth the tradeoff of losing the teammate. He obviously at least thought eliminating a PR was worth looking scummy for the hammer, which makes me think scum might have loaded up on powers, and getting rid of a town PR D1 was a big deal for them.

Re: Robz -
I doubt he was a direct target unless that was who mcmc would shoot D1. I don't think Robz was anywhere near lock-town, which means he was a pretty viable misexile target for scum.

I guess my quick hit reads would be MiX is town by way of claim until proven otherwise. Space is pretty towny to me; in the gambit game, I feel like everything read as super logical and straight forward, which aligns with their meta, but here there's the logic mixed with a degree of emotion that feels more genuine than the other game. I could be wrong, but I'm gonna go forward on that assumption for now. Joth seems towny because of the mcmc interactions. I don't remember mcmc being the kind of player to like bussing early, so that would have been a weird D1 for him.  Faust and Ash read slightly towny to me independently, but looking at the game there's a decent chance one is scum, but that's just my gut with no solid evidence, so whatever. EFHW, Didds, and gkrieg are due for a reread, especially all gkrieg's recent catching up posts, but that'll have to be later.

ppe several

[jotheonah]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

This was, in retrospect, a bad case. I also think some people noticed it was a sort of bad case at the time. But what's interesting is it's a strategically timed case. Right as the mathdude wagon was sputtering out, ash comes in with something "concrete" to revv it back to life. Case in point, it totally worked on me:

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

Ok, here's an interesting post given the flips we know already:

Time for a pops thing.

Would exile: mathdude, Robz, mcmc

Would not stop the exile of: joth, MiX, Space, EFHW, WCD

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

That's way more null reads than I prefer, and I feel like I probably shoehorned at least one player into the would exile pile just to avoid even more null.

For reasoning, the mathdude stuff I've said.  I generally find that if the Brothers KaraMcRobz are buddying each other, they are often not of the same alignment.

Putting two town and a scum on his would exile (and of course, voting for one of the towns) feels like pretty standard mafia play.

Reading further on, I can 't shake the feeling that ashersky was very much the driver of the mathdude wagon and that he started driving it in earnest after THE POST, which is also where mathdude PR-slipped.

I'm going with vote: ashersky

It's not the most extensive case, but the content and timing of his posts around the mathdude wagon paint a picture of a strong player pushing a wagon hard but not looking like he was pushing it too hard. And that possible traitor call is just icing (though if Ash flips traitor, well, nothing I saw in the reread rules out gkrieg as partner). There's also this soft defense:

gkrieg's absence is unfortunate, but I do think that makes him more likely to be town.  Does mafia!gkrieg know that he can skate by with a no-show Day 1?  Yeah, he does.  Does he actually do that?  I highly doubt it.  That's just from my experience though.

[SpaceAnemone]

What did I start? A meaningless day 1 wagon?

Oh I actually thought it was a good wagon before you called it meaningless. Let’s start a meaningful one. Vote: joth

Votes joth early as kind of an after-RVS vote. Makes me lean scummier on joth.

Is it just me, or did you say you thought joth was scummy because mcmc voted for him early, and then do a full 180 and agree with me that it actually makes joth seem townier, given that I can't find evidence of mcmc bussing during d1 in any recent scumgames?

In contrast to my scumpoint allocation for faust and Dylan, I think joth gets an allocation of townpoints, because looking back at a few of mcmc's prior scum-games, he's really not one to bus D1.

Yup, agree with Space here.

PPE 1

[SpaceAnemone]

I think I said multiple times that I was waiting for gkrieg and Dylan to answer my questions before moving on with my arguments. I mean, there was time; it's not like I could know that people would be so eager to get that quixile in.

The following really doesn't feel like the voice of someone urging moderation and suggesting that we let claims take their course and let everyone speak. I read it as direct encouragement of the quixile mob:

Intent to make someone hammer math

That's a traitor claim if I've ever seen one.

Seconded.

[gkrieg13]

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

This was, in retrospect, a bad case. I also think some people noticed it was a sort of bad case at the time. But what's interesting is it's a strategically timed case. Right as the mathdude wagon was sputtering out, ash comes in with something "concrete" to revv it back to life. Case in point, it totally worked on me:

I wanted to share that the specific part of mathdude's post that triggered my suspicion was what read to me as their assumption they would be alive on Day 2 to partake in activities.

You know who knows they will definitely not die at night?

Ok, this I find compelling.

Let's give vote: mathdude a try.

Ok, here's an interesting post given the flips we know already:

Time for a pops thing.

Would exile: mathdude, Robz, mcmc

Would not stop the exile of: joth, MiX, Space, EFHW, WCD

Do not want to exile: gkrieg, faust, dylan

That's way more null reads than I prefer, and I feel like I probably shoehorned at least one player into the would exile pile just to avoid even more null.

For reasoning, the mathdude stuff I've said.  I generally find that if the Brothers KaraMcRobz are buddying each other, they are often not of the same alignment.

Putting two town and a scum on his would exile (and of course, voting for one of the towns) feels like pretty standard mafia play.

Reading further on, I can 't shake the feeling that ashersky was very much the driver of the mathdude wagon and that he started driving it in earnest after THE POST, which is also where mathdude PR-slipped.

I'm going with vote: ashersky

It's not the most extensive case, but the content and timing of his posts around the mathdude wagon paint a picture of a strong player pushing a wagon hard but not looking like he was pushing it too hard. And that possible traitor call is just icing (though if Ash flips traitor, well, nothing I saw in the reread rules out gkrieg as partner). There's also this soft defense:

gkrieg's absence is unfortunate, but I do think that makes him more likely to be town.  Does mafia!gkrieg know that he can skate by with a no-show Day 1?  Yeah, he does.  Does he actually do that?  I highly doubt it.  That's just from my experience though.

I think people hopefully learned from my mistake in this setup and aren't so blatant when they are the traitor.

[gkrieg13]

What did I start? A meaningless day 1 wagon?

Oh I actually thought it was a good wagon before you called it meaningless. Let’s start a meaningful one. Vote: joth

Votes joth early as kind of an after-RVS vote. Makes me lean scummier on joth.

Is it just me, or did you say you thought joth was scummy because mcmc voted for him early, and then do a full 180 and agree with me that it actually makes joth seem townier, given that I can't find evidence of mcmc bussing during d1 in any recent scumgames?

In contrast to my scumpoint allocation for faust and Dylan, I think joth gets an allocation of townpoints, because looking back at a few of mcmc's prior scum-games, he's really not one to bus D1.

Yup, agree with Space here.

PPE 1

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

[WestCoastDidds]

Sorry that took a minute.

Yesterday I found EFHW scummy for laying low, then being flip with MiX, but I find her response to Space and her description of the scum ones of mathdude really off.  The EFHW wagon had no traction yesterday, and I’m not sure that will be any different today, but I’m somewhat buoyed by one of the other people who found her scummy was Robz (the other was MiX) so

Vote: EFHW

I’m not seeing why gkrieg is scummy... this week kind of snuck up on a bunch of us so im cutting all kinds of slack on activity level for now.

I'm curious why you think EFHW's defense to Space's case was not good?

(On my phone do forgive the paraphrasing) she essentially said that mathdude was being super scummy so she shouldn’t get any grief for being on his wagon. The lack of introspection is not very EFHW-y, especially in light of math’s claim and his newness to our group. All in all, it read to me as “eh...”

[faust]

I think I said multiple times that I was waiting for gkrieg and Dylan to answer my questions before moving on with my arguments. I mean, there was time; it's not like I could know that people would be so eager to get that quixile in.

The following really doesn't feel like the voice of someone urging moderation and suggesting that we let claims take their course and let everyone speak. I read it as direct encouragement of the quixile mob:

Intent to make someone hammer math

That's a traitor claim if I've ever seen one.

Seconded.

I was talking about your accusation regarding my play today in that quote.

[faust]

Re: Robz -
I doubt he was a direct target unless that was who mcmc would shoot D1. I don't think Robz was anywhere near lock-town, which means he was a pretty viable misexile target for scum.

So wou do you think the target would have been?

[faust]

Re: Robz -
I doubt he was a direct target unless that was who mcmc would shoot D1. I don't think Robz was anywhere near lock-town, which means he was a pretty viable misexile target for scum.

So wou who do you think the target would have been?

EBWOP

(Not sure what happened there...)

[faust]

Vote: gkrieg

[faust]

What did I start? A meaningless day 1 wagon?

Oh I actually thought it was a good wagon before you called it meaningless. Let’s start a meaningful one. Vote: joth

Votes joth early as kind of an after-RVS vote. Makes me lean scummier on joth.

Is it just me, or did you say you thought joth was scummy because mcmc voted for him early, and then do a full 180 and agree with me that it actually makes joth seem townier, given that I can't find evidence of mcmc bussing during d1 in any recent scumgames?

In contrast to my scumpoint allocation for faust and Dylan, I think joth gets an allocation of townpoints, because looking back at a few of mcmc's prior scum-games, he's really not one to bus D1.

Yup, agree with Space here.

PPE 1

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

Actually, what you do is more like a complete 360, since this post comes after:

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW.

[MiX]

Yeah, that was the scummiest post of the game so far... I hate breaking my personal new-guy D1 pass, but, it sounds like you’ve played enough elsewhere to not truly be a newbie, so yeah, this is fine.

Vote: mathdude

I just stumbled upon this post: hmm, Dylan was already voting for math...

I would be very much surprised if there isn't scum in faust/ash/Dylan, they all jumped on the math wagon very quickly, and right as the mcmc wagon was growing.

Vote: Dylan, I also find his play overall scummy, and it's a good SoD2 vote regardless.

I have already seen MiX's claim from later D2, and his other posts here really do look like he thought scum and others had caught on to his breadcrumbing, so I'm inclined to believe him.

What does this post have to do with my claim?

So the scummiest person on your list is someone why hasn't done anything townie yet? So basically null?

Considering the actual game posts you'd made at this point, not doing anything townie is the same as being scummy. I mean, at most you voted me D1, and that's just a null-to-scummy thing to do.

I'm townie on MiX, Space, and ash in that order.

Leaning scummy on faust, joth, and EFHW. I think EFHW is the scummiest of the three. Still waiting to see how the faust/Space faceoff goes.

Haven't heard much from Didds, although I like what I have seen her post.

Null on Dylan.

Not super strong reads though.
vote: EFHW

Yes, I do a complete 180. I agree that mcmc doesn't bus early, and joth is the only person that mcmc really votes for and interacts with D1. I think that makes joth more likely to be town, which is cemented by your pointing out that mcmc doesn't usually bus D1 in his recent games.

Don't these posts contradict each other?

PPE: Ah! faust has my locktown status now.

[ashersky]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

[MiX]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

Vote: ash

I mean you did claim role cop...

[MiX]

ash/gkrieg scum team? Or is ash making a play? Dare I say it.......................................is he executing a plan?

Who's around? I need to hear outside opinions on this.

[ashersky]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

Vote: ash

I mean you did claim role cop...

I really think it’s better to find the other mafia member, don’t you?

[MiX]

I’ll bite.

I am counter-claiming MiX.

vote: faust

Vote: ash

I mean you did claim role cop...

I really think it’s better to find the other mafia member, don’t you?

We can do that tomorrow, assuming you're telling the truth. Besides, I thought this is what you wanted me to do, honestly.

[ashersky]

My point being: whether you believe me or not, the exile should be from outside the two of us.  It’s easy enough to pick us off one after the other when time requires it.

 (That time probably comes after one of us is NK’ed, making it easy to know who lied.  Or do they leave us both alive, to continue to sow confusion?)

MiX, I promise not to shoot you tonight if you promise not to shoot me.  Trust me on this.

[MiX]

My point being: whether you believe me or not, the exile should be from outside the two of us.  It’s easy enough to pick us off one after the other when time requires it.

 (That time probably comes after one of us is NK’ed, making it easy to know who lied.  Or do they leave us both alive, to continue to sow confusion?)

MiX, I promise not to shoot you tonight if you promise not to shoot me.  Trust me on this.

This would be true if there was a world where I am scum, which there is not. I just hope that the majority of town can see this. Unless you think I decided to claim vig EoD1 to quickexile math?

I won't discuss vigging strategies publicly, but I do have to say that your promise isn't completely off the wall, so it's not scummy. Whatever that has to do with anything.

Is this how you make people engage with the thread? I'm so for this play, I can't wait to see what happens.