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Author Topic: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Game Over)  (Read 226171 times)

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1100 on: April 19, 2020, 03:40:54 pm »

In the interest of completion, here is Galz's case on me. It pretty much boils down to "trust me, I know her".

Vote: WCD - She's Scum McScumerston. There's a tick I only just noticed on re-read that I'll happily divulge at game's end. But I'm very confident in this read.

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  ;D But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1101 on: April 19, 2020, 03:48:01 pm »

In the interest of completion, here is Galz's case on me. It pretty much boils down to "trust me, I know her".

Vote: WCD - She's Scum McScumerston. There's a tick I only just noticed on re-read that I'll happily divulge at game's end. But I'm very confident in this read.

Didds - I think this is the first time I've ever thought you were scum. Well, no - You used to have a different tick as scum, and then I divulged that, and you broke it.  ;D But I'm pretty confident in this one - so, once I post it at game-end, I expect it won't last another game further. C'est la Vie. Like Mail-Mi said earlier, I'm playing for this game, not future ones.

Intent to hammer myself is still in place if I reach L-1.

I have not lied about anything, and am exactly as claimed.

WCD is scum, and you should lynch her.

Eddie is correct that scum likely choose to kill LaLight based on knowledge that he was signing (LaLight, I apologize that your good-deed got punished!)

I'm not scum. Lynching me would be pointless.

Signing your petition = death. I don't see how that is good for town at all. And why would anyone risk signing now when there is not benefit?

You are scum, but I'm not going to have a debate with you about it.

Signing doesn't = death, but that's what you wanted to frame it as when you shot LL knowing he was signing it last night. That's cool. You can lynch me, I'll flip Anthony Walker, A Delusional Humanist. At night, the meeting QT will still be generated, and the petition will still go out. Everything I've claimed will happen will continue to happen. People will probably sign it in secret, just to prove you wrong (and me right) because that's how people are. Tomorrow, you'll get lynched, and you'll flip scum - clearing everything I've stated as being true, as I'll flip what I've claimed, and you'll flip whatever flavor of scum you actually are.

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

In the interest of completion, you missed this:

Okay, it might be time for me to start asking people questions.

@Galz, early in the game (around #220), you were voting Cayvie, along with pubby and MiX. A little later one, Didds joined the wagon, though at #275 you moved off to the growing MiX wagon. Anyway, in that period where you and two flipped townies were voting Cayvie, what's your best guess about what scum was up to?

I'm using this to distract myself from the work that I'm supposed to be doing... and that I promised would be done by tomorrow morning but still has about 12 hours of work to be done (gonna be a long night). If I don't close the tab, I can't help but refresh it, and then I end up reading & posting &... damnit. Alright. C'mon Galz. Answer and get back to work. :P

Strictly speaking, the problem with answering your question is that I don't know Cayvie's alignment. My current thought is that she's some form of SK variant, but I don't actually know. She could be town, she could be traditional scum.

Let's assume she's town. I popped onto her because of a very small thing that stood out to me - something she confirmed was a good read generally, even if it was wrong in this specific situation. Mix (town), and Pubby (town) both voted for her as well. I would expect, if Cayvie is town (or even SK - "not-scum" as I'm using it), at least one traditional scum would find their way over to that wagon. It wasn't enough of a case to drive home a lynch, but it was good enough (and with Cayvie saying so herself) that a vote there could go generally unnoticed or criticized. As per VC 1.5 - that would make WCD.

Then the MiX (town) wagon began to be a thing. As I said at the time, MiX and his reactions are extremely predictable. I voted him because I wanted to drive the wagon up - not to see how MiX responded, but to see how everybody else responded. 

So, honestly, look at VC 1.7. On wagon when I voted was Mail (unknown), Shraeye (unknown), Swan (unknown). Voting after me was faust (unknown), LaLight (town), pubby (town). This is one of the reasons faust is higher up on my "possibly scum" list. I know that I'm not town - but I'm also not scum - I don't believe the MiX wagon finished with 4x"not-scum" votes. Although it's not impossible, and also not impossible is that I'm wrong about one of Mail-Mi, Shraeye & Swan. If I were to pick one to be wrong about, it would be Shraeye - but I honestly read him (as well as the other two) as townie overall, so... eh.

But if you believe that there was only one traditional scum on that wagon, and if you work under the assumption that Cayvie is not traditional scum, then there are probably two scum left out there amongst WCD, Uncle, EFHW, Skip & e!. You'll notice that in my reads list in #729, WCD is top of my scum list, and EFHW, Skip and e! are all middling. The only one of those that I'm town reading is Uncle.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1102 on: April 19, 2020, 03:58:20 pm »

The "she" you reference there is Cavyie, yeah?  I am only mentioned at the end? And it's just that I am still scum because scum?
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1103 on: April 19, 2020, 04:02:32 pm »

So, my final assessment is that my wagon is at least half non-town folk.

Galz isn't trying to help town. We know that Volm are alien town, and his desire to end them (along with any alien scum) isn't helpful to us at all. Further, I have a feeling that his lock on me was the result of not signing the petition. He claims not to know who has signed and not signed, but there was zero surprise to the disclosure of who had and had not signed. It is too strange, and far too opportunistic, not to be related. "WCD has a tell, she's scum. What? You didn't sign my petition? Totally scum." Don't forget that he used the example of LL signing the petition in #789, well before Eddie and I said that LL had signed the petition.

His account also doesn't make sense with the supposed random selection of the QT and his desire to hunt scum. So, if scum signs, and becomes his proxy, then he gets the scum wincon. So, he's scum. If an alien signs, and becomes his proxy, he can't win no matter what. So, dead man walking. He is a Schrodinger's galz...scum and town simultaneously....AND alien and human simultaneously.

So, vote: Galzria

Mail-mi is slinking along the edges of the game without engaging much. I find him straight up scummier than Galz, and would switch, but I am not voting there now in the interest of consolidation.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1104 on: April 19, 2020, 04:20:24 pm »

I've pointed all this out before, but here's a neat overview, starting with the most damning.

And I've explained how all of these are wrong, but I'll do so again, just for you.

1. If the petition serves no other purpose than for Galzria's win condition, then the process makes no sense. A player would need to sign, and then agree again after enough signatures are in. There is no game-design reason for requiring the second approval, as it doesn't matter to the player and they already made a choice.

It makes no sense because you're living in a world where you know what it is and how it works. Because I told you. I've said "none of it matters to the other player", so now, none of it matters to the other player. In a world where this information is not public, the lack of knowledge provides more than enough reason to consider the options. It doesn't have any more of an effect on them in a world where they don't know what purpose it serves than it does in a world where they do know - but the game design is perfectly acceptable, because in a world where they don't know, it might.

2. As pointed out, the claim is inconsistent - Galz doesn't know the identities of the signees, but gets to choose one of them. First of all he would have us believe that he did not notice this discrepancy until he claimed today. Also, he would have us believe that ashersky did not provide clarification for an integral part of his role. That's not the mod!ashersky that I know, and it doesn't fit my with interactions with ashersky in this game.
I think the solution here is that actually Galzria doesn't know the signees, but the thing that the signatures do is something else, which is how it happened that he made a claim that doesn't quite work.

You're making assumptions about me that you should know from modding simply aren't true. I generally do not comb through my PR looking for every possible discrepancy. This is especially true when playing with more experienced MODS. I also don't know what to tell you. I'm not the only person who has gotten a "I'm not answering that at this time" response from Ashersky regarding their role. DatSwan has spoken up regarding the same. As I stated this first, not Swan, it would seem highly unlikely that I just bull-shitted my response on that hoping against all hope that Ashersky did in fact give those type of responses. This is especially true because, as you note (and I know, having played in plenty of Ash's games in the past), he's usually pretty good about answering questions. In Falling Skies, he answered most (although not all) of my questions then. You know what would've been a better lie if I intended to lie there? "Ash said that the names of the signee's would be presented to me when I reach 4".

3. It doesn't make a lot of sense flavor-wise. Yon sign a petition to do something, and if enough people sign it... nothing happens to further the purpose of the petition? Come on.

See my response to point 1. These are the same points that you're trying to make.

4. It's weird that the number claimed doesn't coincide with the number of players who posted. I think it is very unlikely that anyone in this game would choose to not post in a neighborhood.

I believe you're just wrong here, and I'm not alone in this expressed opinion. I believe there are many players that would choose to stay silent.

5. Galzria offered to self-hammer, which doesn't work at all with a Survivor-like role. As a scum gambit, it makes more sense.


Except it works just fine with what I've claimed. Had I claimed "Hey guys, I'm a normal survivor", your point might be valid. Unfortunately, it's not.

6. His persistence on Didds is nonsense. He wants her lynched, but doesn't want to say any reasons that might convince others because ... maybe she'll say something more incriminating? Well there's not much time left for that in this day. I think that he has nothing on Didds actually, and the case is made up, there is no scumtell. Galzria just wants to be seen arguing against Didds for some reason. And a Survivor doesn't have a reason to make up disingenuous reads.

I've given reasons beyond what you've apparently read. Still, I've arguably done more actual scum-hunting than you have, as not only have you actively only gone after me, you've consistently tried to dissuade every single other option. In faust's world, I'm the only scum that exists in the whole game apparently. Fun! Even considering the possibility that I'm not what I've claimed, even if I was "traditional scum", which is what faust is generally arguing, I would have partners out there. Faust isn't interested in finding them - one has to begin to wonder if it's because he knows I DON'T, because he himself has them?

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1105 on: April 19, 2020, 04:26:17 pm »

8. He spent most of his D1 time voting for town. That alone isn't a big thing, but it fits with a scum!Galzria picture.

How consistent would that be with SK!Galz? Obviously he'd probably rather be voting for Mafia than town, but that can be hard to figure out D1.
Uh I mean, it's kind of consistent? I don't really think about SK!Galz that much, obviously that could be, but I think there's something behind his Didds push that relates to his win condition.
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faust

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1106 on: April 19, 2020, 04:30:32 pm »

How nice of Glazria to rehash his unconvincing talking points. Anyways I'm going to go to bed now, and I sure hope that I'll wake up to a dead Galzria.

One last thing though:

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.
So Galzria claims his role would basically expose him in the QT would he ever be in it? Or otherwise he'd have to argue against signing the petition for his own non-signing to make sense. Another point that doesn't make sense.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1107 on: April 19, 2020, 04:34:40 pm »

So, my final assessment is that my wagon is at least half non-town folk.

Galz isn't trying to help town. We know that Volm are alien town, and his desire to end them (along with any alien scum) isn't helpful to us at all. Further, I have a feeling that his lock on me was the result of not signing the petition. He claims not to know who has signed and not signed, but there was zero surprise to the disclosure of who had and had not signed. It is too strange, and far too opportunistic, not to be related. "WCD has a tell, she's scum. What? You didn't sign my petition? Totally scum." Don't forget that he used the example of LL signing the petition in #789, well before Eddie and I said that LL had signed the petition.

Your last sentence point is a valid concern, and I can't really argue the thought process - I can simply explain mine. I used LL because he flipped Human. It didn't make sense to use a living player to explain out my example, as I don't know any of your alignment's or race's. As I cannot win via proxy if that proxy is alien, it didn't make sense to use MiX or Pubby as my example either. So LL was the only logical choice. I don't believe that you would've done any different in my shoes giving that example, but I also cannot argue that your thought processes above is an invalid one to take.

The "tell", as I thought it was (and remember, I have stated multiple times that it's not the super strongest tell in the world), is that you've categorized players into "buckets" (town-bucket, scum-bucket) D1. This is a term/phraseology that I've only ever notice you use as scum. I looked back at about the last half dozen of your town games and could not find another example of you using this. It seems to be how you like to "group" people when you're scum. It's also something you can easily explain away and say isn't true if you are in fact scum here - so it doesn't seem to serve much purpose in divulging it except that it makes it useless in the future. No gain now, lost gain later.


His account also doesn't make sense with the supposed random selection of the QT and his desire to hunt scum. So, if scum signs, and becomes his proxy, then he gets the scum wincon. So, he's scum. If an alien signs, and becomes his proxy, he can't win no matter what. So, dead man walking. He is a Schrodinger's galz...scum and town simultaneously....AND alien and human simultaneously.

So, vote: Galzria

Mail-mi is slinking along the edges of the game without engaging much. I find him straight up scummier than Galz, and would switch, but I am not voting there now in the interest of consolidation.

Generally, I think you're right. If I got to 4 signatures, asked a signed scum to be my proxy (and they weren't alien), then if I were to be dead, I would essentially have a scum wincon. The same is true if you replace town with scum above. If I'm alive, my proxy (if I have them) serves no purpose. And if my Proxy is an Alien (if that's a thing that can happen), then I cannot win if I'm already dead, or must have them lynched in order to win if I'm alive.

I feel like you're making it seem more confusing than it is - or maybe it's just more confusing than it seems to me because it's my role and I've walked through the various iterations a bazillion times here already. :P
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1108 on: April 19, 2020, 04:38:49 pm »

How nice of Glazria to rehash his unconvincing talking points. Anyways I'm going to go to bed now, and I sure hope that I'll wake up to a dead Galzria.

One last thing though:

7. He says he could be randomly included in the neighborhood he generates. So like... he can sign his own petition, but only sometimes, up to RNG? Seems unnecessarily swingy without reason, he could just always be in there or never.

You've obviously missed the part where I've claimed that I cannot sign my own petition. Also, note that I've said the signatures must be unique as well.
So Galzria claims his role would basically expose him in the QT would he ever be in it? Or otherwise he'd have to argue against signing the petition for his own non-signing to make sense. Another point that doesn't make sense.

They're more legitimate than anything you've bothered to put forth... on anybody, including myself.

And why would I need to argue against signing again? Just because my signature doesn't count on my petitions doesn't mean I can't argue that I think people should sign it. Sorry, maybe I phrased that poorly. "I cannot sign it" means "My signature doesn't count".
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1109 on: April 19, 2020, 04:46:39 pm »

Here.
Gonna catch up really fast. Uno momento
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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1110 on: April 19, 2020, 04:47:29 pm »

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that won't ever happen but should be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1111 on: April 19, 2020, 04:49:19 pm »

Lynches I would strongly consider at this point, I think:

WCD
Mail-Mi (This has been a recent development. Obviously I town read him earlier. Didds (and I feel like others?) has made some solid points... and... I dunno. He felt crazy, crazy townie D1. He doesn't D2.)
EFHW
faust

Lynches I don't think are great, but meh:
e!
Eddie
Skip
Swan
Shraeye

Lynches that shouldn't ever happen but apparently be listed anyway because... Swan:
Space

EBWOP
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

mail-mi

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1112 on: April 19, 2020, 05:44:33 pm »

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1113 on: April 19, 2020, 05:48:14 pm »

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1114 on: April 19, 2020, 05:48:37 pm »

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

would you consider Eddie or EFHW over WCD?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1115 on: April 19, 2020, 05:49:38 pm »

It doesn't seem like I'll have time to reread today, sorry y'all.

Also there's a very IRL reason I've been more disengaged D2 and kinda skirting along: it's the end of the semester, which means final projects and finals are coming due. I've just been busier than I was D1

would you consider Eddie or EFHW over WCD?

I would. I don't even know what my lynch preference is at this point, I need to do some thinking. As it turns out, my wife is asleep right now and I have some time to at least look over some stuff.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1116 on: April 19, 2020, 05:50:09 pm »

@ faust - is there no one in the game you think there is a better chance of finding skum over galz?
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1117 on: April 19, 2020, 05:50:36 pm »

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1118 on: April 19, 2020, 05:52:41 pm »

@ faust - is there no one in the game you think there is a better chance of finding skum over galz?

faust went to bed. You're likely not getting an answer before deadline, so your answer is "no". But he's also made that abundantly clear by his deflection from literally every single other possible vote choice.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

mail-mi

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1119 on: April 19, 2020, 05:53:04 pm »

Fun times rereading on a Sunday!

There are 4 people voting for me, all with very little actual reason aside from I have a tick (Glaz), and I don't seem like me (Mail-mi and Eddie) and I am not participating (Shraeye). Here is what I get from the reread on mail-mi....he spends most of D1 gunning for MiX. Then on D2, he defends Galz, and then Skip, and now is willing to lynch Galz. He votes for WCD, can't remember why, then says he's cool with the vote, but could also go Galz. This, in conjunction with coloring himself green on the MiX wagon demonstrates to me that he isn't much interested in finding scum. He's doing no hunting, just kind of hanging about and defending.

Here are the relevant posts.  I haven't included anything about the "education" he received or discussions of bus driving/chaos/etc.

I think Galz is telling the truth. However, I'd rather lynch him than someone I think is town, because he isn't town. You seem off. I can't put an exact reasoning to it (without a reread) but you seem different than your usual happy town self. Also coloring myself green is such a nulltell, I'd do that as town or scum. Look at any game I've played as town or scum and you'll see that I put myself as the towniest on any scum to chum list. Also, I was doing that wagon analysis from my perspective, and from my perspective I'm conf!town. If you want an unbiased wagon analysis, ask someone who wasn't on it.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1120 on: April 19, 2020, 05:53:33 pm »

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.
Logged
Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1121 on: April 19, 2020, 05:55:07 pm »

OK - caught up. Just gonna broad stroke it.

@ Galz:

1) Your case on WCD is weak, at best. Like it doesn't even matter. You could divulge what you think WCD's quirk is at this point and there is so little time left in the day people would not have time to even attempt to go back and read games to verify it. And even if they did, well I can't speak for others, but for me even if it added up it wouldn't swing me.

2) That actually is kind of my whole basis on why you almost must be what you claim to be - I dont think you bring that case forward as skum and tunnel it like this.

3) I do not want to lynch you, but I will lynch you before WCD. I also do not believe I want to lynch faust. From my POV, if you are skum, then he is not skum... and if you are Survivor and he is skum, he would not want to lynch you, he would want to lynch town. EFHW I would lynch over Galz/Faust/WCD, so if you wanna try for that, I will join you there for now. But it is purely based a pool of people that I do not want to lynch and EFHW coming in 4th out of 4.

Why in the world would scum!faust not want to lynch Survivor!me (or SK!me)? Both are literally the exact same thing as a town lynch to him, and I have a ready-made case against me that he can push without taking flak as being a "scummy" thing to do when I flip?

because this is an RMM. So if he is skum and you are survivor, then he has to believe your claim essentially. That is not a threat to him weighed against potential town!PRs that exist somewhere else.

The sk point is fair enough.

And if he's an Alien scum? Then we literally cannot both win, and thus I am as much a threat to him as any other player.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1122 on: April 19, 2020, 05:57:19 pm »

I have a few thoughts on people, which I'll share in the morning if that seems like a good idea then.

Other general thought: I think I agree with the people who'd rather see a Mafia lynch if we can today, and I'm not sure Galz is reall Mafia. Anyone want to persuade me otherwise before I wake up aagin in ~8 hours from now?
Is there someone else that you are sure is mafia? Because then I'm happy to switch.

Eh, I'll put together a case, but the burden of proof against Galz for some reason seems to be much higher than against anyone else.

btw - this post screams of "I'm not going to do any work to find real mafia, but I'll sheep the IC if they tell me to"
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1123 on: April 19, 2020, 05:58:15 pm »

@Everyone not on Galzria: Could you explain why you have such a strong read on whoever you're voting for that you are willing to forgo a guaranteed non-town lynch in order to push it thorugh?

A “non-town” lynch is not a “scum” lynch. Town already has 3 dead members. It’s likely to be 4, and possibly more, at day start tomorrow. Town needs a scum lynch far more than they need a “non-town” lynch. Lynching me helps bring the potential votes against scum down by at least two. With 12 alive, 7 to lynch, it’ll go down to 10 alive, 6 to lynch (assuming only one death). Given there’s likely a scum faction of 3 in the game - tomorrow’s lynch would require 6-of-7 “non-scum” (there may be other “non-town” players, like SK) to get a scum lynch through.

Lynching me now just puts Town in a worse spot than they are in today by taking away at least two votes that can be cast against scum.
True (modulo the fact where you could totally be scum), but a town lynch is a town lynch, and all those other votes seem so incredibly weak that they might very easily be on town. Or so it seems to me.

Who is scum other than Galz? Because you seem to be town reading this entire group.
I don't really want to share that right now.

Convenient.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: RMM55: Falling Skies Mafia 2 (Day 2)
« Reply #1124 on: April 19, 2020, 05:59:44 pm »

vote: faust

Willing to re-vote WCD. Willing to vote Mail-Mi. Willing to vote EFHW. Those are my top 4.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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