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[2.71828.....]

Also, iguana has to go one-up my claiming thought with an actual claim.

Totally changed the course of the conversation

[Roadrunner7671]

Jimmmmmm definitely feels different

Good different or bad different?

Yes!

[2.71828.....]

Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time

Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you

Vote: LaLight

Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time

vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.

Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?

Also, if we are going to call iguana scum for claiming we should probably call teproc scum for teeing him up

[2.71828.....]

Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time

Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you

Vote: LaLight

Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time

vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.

Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?

Also, if we are going to call iguana scum for claiming we should probably call teproc scum for teeing him up

But I don't really want to do that. They can both be town along with jimmmm

[faust]

My claiming plan was good! Then I was suddenly scum. Then there suddenly was a posting restriction! Then the game ended. Now I'm town again, but claiming isn't as good anymore. Such a rollercoaster of emotions.

What about the claiming town/not town plan?

See emphasis.

[faust]

The subtle two exclamation points. Playing into the joke to buddy the original poster.

I don't know. Seems like a pretty strong D1 case to me

I am sold. Vote: gkrieg

[faust]

Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time

Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you

Vote: LaLight

Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time

vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.

Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?

Why should they? Explain

So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either

a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.

The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.

I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.

[O]

the following shall be considered to be a softclaim:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[faust]

Well it does narrow their claiming options though. Poisoner is likely to be high in the draft order, so claiming VT might not be that easy for them.

Well, there's really not a lot to lose for town because as I see it killing town is mostly negative utility. So yeah, i agree on this

I suppose the most practical way is to require everyone to claim whether or not they are a Poisoner. As should be relatively obvious, I am not a Poisoner.

I got first draft and took poisoner to block it from scum. I can claim my number if people want. Not sure if that would have some kinda bad effect.

Oh well that is interesting.

[faust]

I am somewhat suspicious of Iguana's claim, for the record.

Hmm, it seems the possibilities, in rough order of descending likelihood are:

1. He's Town and telling the truth.
2. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Ninja.
3. He's scum and he or a teammate is a Poisoner.
...
4. He's scum and neither he nor a teammate is a Ninja or Poisoner.
5. He's Town and lying.

Which of 2-4 do you think is likely? What benefit would scum have from claiming?

Hm. Well it makes sense to block that role as town, definitely one of the strongest. I don't think mafia would ever take Ninja over Poisoner; the Smoke Monster might, but then this is not the best slot for them. So 2 is unlikely. 3 is well reasonable. iguana did agree to this rather quickly, that looks more like a townie thing. 4 is dangerous and super unlikely. Unless scum got the Barracks and found both things there. But then why not claim that? 5 should not be considered.

So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.

[faust]

Jimmmmmms towning it up right now

That was my reaction as well. Since when do we agree on stuff?

[gkrieg13]

Town again :/ i have alignments in lines: 5 games town 5 games scum and now I am town all the time

Why the sad face? If you are unhappy about it we can always just lynch you

Vote: LaLight

Oh i just like changes a lot. Not like I don't like being town, i like uh forgot the word. When it's different every time

vote: LaLight for empty posting. The thread is going to be hard enough to reread without that.

Thoughts on having a potential Poisoner claim ?

Why should they? Explain

So I'm worried that Poisoner is incredibly strong in scum's hands. So my thought is that if we build a consensus that a Poisoner should claim, and not poison on N1 at least, we put a potential scum Poisoner in a position where they can either

a) not claim and kill anyway, but then they'll have to fakeclaim when massclaim time comes
b) claim and not kill, which seems good to me.

The cost is that if the Poisoner is town, well he gets outed... but I think that's fine too. Poisoner is not a strong town role anyway.

I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.

Why include that claim?

[faust]

I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.

Why include that claim?
[/quote]
For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.

[gkrieg13]

I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.

[faust]

I tentatively agree with this, but would also include the 2-shot Redirector.

Why include that claim?

For the same reasons as the Posioner? It's not a strong town role, it's a strong scum role. Plus if the Smoke Monster bid Summon Mother again, we can force them to either fakeclaim another slot or fakeclaim that role from the slot; a decision they'd have to make at some point anyway, but forcing it early forces this without much additional information and we could get a slip up.

Grumble... this is what it should actually look like.

[faust]

I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.

Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.

[gkrieg13]

I would argue that it is a stronger town role than people give it credit for.

Well last game no townie bid for it, so it seems you are in a minority position there.

I still stand by my opinion!

[Jimmmmm]

So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.

How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?

[faust]

So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.

How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?

Well yes, but they are inadvertently claiming "not Poisoner". Which means they need to fakeclaim when the time comes, which potentially catches them in a lie.

I do think telling the truth is the more likely scenario right now.

[Swowl]

So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.

How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?

This.
I mean I see the argument from both sides. But if we do the claim out thing they have 2 options: Truth or Lie.
1) If the Poisoner is Skum it forces them to freeze if they claim it.
2) If the Poisoner is Town, they (assumptions here) were not going to use it anyways and while it sucks to be in this spot, you really only help the team by giving up the info.
3) If the Poisoner is Skum and claims "not Poisoner", then they can continue to poison for the time being. The downside, as mentioned previously, being that they may create a slip that will later be revealed in the game.
4) If the Poisoner is Town and they do not claim it, they either have a reason that escapes me or they are being unhelpful (IMO).

If I were Skum and rolled Poisoner in this situation, I feel like the play would be to go with #3 as it grants more for the Skum team. Assuming that player is not RVSed or something on day 1 they get the ability to target night 1, and then again N2 before we even re-open the discussion about it being a thing. I think that weighed against the chances of maybe down the road there might be a claim eventually that possibly leads to them being caught makes the Skum play to be to stay silent. I mean what is the down side? The other 16 players tell the truth and then we are back at square one?
Again, just my opinion, but when we take that idea and combine it with the fact that there is like no reason ever for one of us to screw over the rest of town by lying about it... I am leaning towards truth on Iguana's claim.

[Teproc]

Scummy on LaLight for now...

Not enough to vote for him though ?

vote: gkrieg

[Teproc]

iguana is town: yes it makes sense for a scum!Poisoner to claim, but he did it really, really fast. I mean it is renouncing a role that you spent your #1 slot on (I guess he could be lying about that if he's scum, but again that was quick thinking then), at least for the first few days. Don't think scum makes that call lightly, without seeing how most people feel about it: I was expecting people to come in and oppose the idea at some point.

WW is townie for being paranoid though, especially given him just having been scum and going for Poisoner.

Re: 2-Shot Redirector, I don't know about that. It's a much less clear case than Poisoner to me, because there's no public proof that the role was used or not used. I don't think I'm in favour of that one.

[Qvist]

What was that Lalight train about? Seems very scummy. There was like no evidence yet on Lalight being scummy and it is even day 1 and there is already a train starting. I think I will keep an eye on Jimmmmm and Witherweaver.
I am not sure what the Poisoner claim is going to achieve. I was reading DatSwan's reasoning and it kinda makes sense though. I have to keep thinking about it for a bit.

Did anyone notice that many of us are named after famous philosophers? That can't be coincidence, that must be fate.

[Witherweaver]

So I am pretty sure that there is some truth, i.e. either he's telling the truth or he stole the claim from a teammate.

How would scum benefit from claiming this early? Wouldn't they rather keep it secret so they can use it freely?

For the towncred, and because they may sense that they are going to have to claim anyway.

[SpaceAnemone]

Probably not a good lynch for today.

Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.

I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?