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[Jack Rudd]

So this is the card that has been bottom of the $5 rankings for a while now.

How awesome is the combo with Travelling Fair?
What other combos does it have?
What is it like as a Prince target?

[Roadrunner7671]

Much Counting very wow

[Accatitippi]

It's a nice sweet little card, but it really whats that buy.

I've never had the pleasure of trying a Counting House + discard for benefit deck, it would be nice to do sometimes.

[Burning Skull]

What is it like as a Prince target?

Terrible? If you can buy Prince and Counting House and some price reduction, and play it all in one turn, you are probably drawing your deck anyway or pretty close to that = Counting House is not actually needed at all.

[werothegreat]

I think it could work well in a Royal Blacksmith engine in the absence of Copper trashing.

[Qvist]

I think it could work well in a Royal Blacksmith engine in the absence of Copper trashing.

So you put the Coppers into your hand so that you can discard them all again when you play Royal Blacksmith?

[J Reggie]

I think it could work well in a Royal Blacksmith engine in the absence of Copper trashing.

So you put the Coppers into your hand so that you can discard them all again when you play Royal Blacksmith?

If Copper were Tunnel that would be amazing!

[werothegreat]

I think it could work well in a Royal Blacksmith engine in the absence of Copper trashing.

So you put the Coppers into your hand so that you can discard them all again when you play Royal Blacksmith?

You play the CH *after* all your RBs, silly.

[Qvist]

But if you prince Counting House you play it before. Or weren't you referencing the Prince discussion? This was kind of unclear.

[werothegreat]

But if you prince Counting House you play it before. Or weren't you referencing the Prince discussion? This was kind of unclear.

What? Oh, no, just Counting House in general. Princing Counting House is a really shitty idea...

[Chris is me]

You need a cost reducer to Prince Counting House, and most of the time I would rather just Prince the cost reducer?

Anyhow other than the rare super good combos where you take advantage of the whole boundless draw thing, Counting House is awful. I would rather buy Scout on a lot of boards...

[drsteelhammer]

Also, even if you could magically Prince a five cost for free, Counting House seems like one of the worst targets. Unlike other handsize increasers, timing your CH play is really important. You want lots of Coppers in the discard, that won't happen consistently if CH is the first thing you play every turn. Maybe if you already Princed a Scavenger or Chancellor it can work

[LastFootnote]

Also, even if you could magically Prince a five cost for free, Counting House seems like one of the worst targets. Unlike other handsize increasers, timing your CH play is really important. You want lots of Coppers in the discard, that won't happen consistently if CH is the first thing you play every turn. Maybe if you already Princed a Scavenger or Chancellor it can work

If you're using Counting House at all, it should be in a huge deck with barely any other drawing. Maybe some sifting, but that's not really that important. But even if you could magically Prince a $5 card for free, it's going to be difficult to line up Prince and Counting House in any deck that wants Counting Houses.

[Seprix]

Counting House is awful. Proof? Running Counting House BM against Ultimate Big Money (no actions), we find that Counting House barely wins the coin flip. Freaking Moat BM is better than Counting House, too.

[funkdoc]

outside of the traveling fair combo (which i've still never gotten in a game yet!!!), i think counting house's main use is in really sloggy colony games.  it's one of the few good ways to reach $11 with some consistency there, as a lot of the time you're better off just going for provinces on those kinds of boards.

i've also had some success with the "mountebank counter" idea.  i'll pick up one mountebank then a bunch of counting houses, and it seems to wreck people who ignore CH.

[McGarnacle]

Counting house combos with Warehouse (obviously). Another nice one is Artficer. Close to a re-shuffle, you discard everything to gain a Counting House, buy a copper with you $1 from Artificer, and then next turn play the counting house.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Counting house combos with Warehouse (obviously). Another nice one is Artficer. Close to a re-shuffle, you discard everything to gain a Counting House, buy a copper with you $1 from Artificer, and then next turn play the counting house.

Everything that discards can be good. Cellar/Counting House is also nice, I really made an otherwise mediocre engine (due to lack of Copper trashing) shine that way.

It's sad that Counting House is ignorable so often, it's such a cool card. I still think it shouldn't be dead last on the Qvist $5 rankings.

[Davio]

I view this as terminal money and terminal money at $5+ that's not an attack is often pretty bad.

[Awaclus]

Counting House is awful. Proof? Running Counting House BM against Ultimate Big Money (no actions), we find that Counting House barely wins the coin flip. Freaking Moat BM is better than Counting House, too.

By that logic, it's still better than Village.

[Seprix]

Counting House is awful. Proof? Running Counting House BM against Ultimate Big Money (no actions), we find that Counting House barely wins the coin flip. Freaking Moat BM is better than Counting House, too.

By that logic, it's still better than Village.

Depends on the Village you're talking about. Also, by that, you are now claiming that Counting House is an engine card.

[Awaclus]

Counting House is awful. Proof? Running Counting House BM against Ultimate Big Money (no actions), we find that Counting House barely wins the coin flip. Freaking Moat BM is better than Counting House, too.

By that logic, it's still better than Village.

Depends on the Village you're talking about. Also, by that, you are now claiming that Counting House is an engine card.

There is only one card whose name is Village. Also, yes, Counting House is an engine card. It is also a slog card and a combo card. It is not a big money card, so you shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't perform well in big money.

[Seprix]

Counting House also does not do well with many combos, or slogs, or really with anything at all. Counting House is one of the worst cards in all of Dominion.

[Awaclus]

Counting House also does not do well with many combos, or slogs, or really with anything at all. Counting House is one of the worst cards in all of Dominion.

That is true, but you can't prove that with big money simulations.

[Seprix]

Counting House also does not do well with many combos, or slogs, or really with anything at all. Counting House is one of the worst cards in all of Dominion.

That is true, but you can't prove that with big money simulations.

Alright, you win.

[funkdoc]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

[LastFootnote]

One significant advantage of Counting House is that junking your deck has a much smaller effect on your ability to buy Provinces or Colonies. It can affect the frequency with which you do, but not your ability to do so. So if you're running a Counting House deck, start buying Duchies early. And I mean maybe even buy your first Duchy before your first Province, depending on how your shuffle goes.

All this is also true of Philosopher's Stone.

[Seprix]

Yes, maybe Counting House is just being played completely wrong, and it's better than we all think. I might have to look into this.

[werothegreat]

I'd still like to reiterate, since it seems the point has gotten lost, that a Counting House (NOT PRINCED) in a Royal Blacksmith engine would be preeeety nice.

[Awaclus]

Yes, maybe Counting House is just being played completely wrong, and it's better than we all think. I might have to look into this.

It is, but it's still pretty bad. I wrote an article on it some time ago. It's slightly outdated (doesn't take into account Adventures or Empires cards), but I think it's still pretty accurate on a general level.

[Seprix]

I'd still like to reiterate, since it seems the point has gotten lost, that a Counting House (NOT PRINCED) in a Royal Blacksmith engine would be preeeety nice.

Yes, that one combo is not bad. But Coppers are bad. And you should feel bad.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

[AdrianHealey]

I won a counting house-beggar game recently. It was surprisingly close though.

[Davio]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

Problem with Coppers is that they get in the way of the cards you need to draw those Coppers.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

Problem with Coppers is that they get in the way of the cards you need to draw those Coppers.

Well, yeah, dud turns happen, but they can also happen without Coppers. I guess the chance is slightly higher with a lot of Coppers in your deck, but there may be redeeming factors on the board - sifters like Cellar or Guide, deck-riggers like Scheme or Inn, top-deckers like Watchtower or Travelling Fair, delayed draw like Haunted Woods or Wharf. Not every engine is equally reliable, that's for sure.

Of course, a lot of the time there's strong trashing and you don't want those Coppers, so by extension you don't want Counting House. But there are cases where having those Coppers is either not so bad or just unavoidable, and in that case Counting House needs serious consideration.

[McGarnacle]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

[ConMan]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

Why do you like swingy generic terminal money?

[singletee]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

Why do you like swingy generic terminal money?

Slots
Action - $5
The player to your left sets aside cards from your deck face down until you say "stop", revealing the last card set aside. Do this two more times. If all three revealed cards have the same name, gain a Province. Discard the revealed and set aside cards.

[ipofanes]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

[Seprix]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

[aku_chi]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

As a monolithic strategy, it could be competitive in Colony games.  Buy Colony at 11+, buy Banquet for Counting House at 3+.  You'd have a decent chance of hitting Colony on turns 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, and 14.  If you hit 5/6 of those, you're in good shape.  The strategy is resistant to most attacks, too.  I think it's too slow for Provinces most of the time.

I think it would be really difficult to incorporate Banquet + Counting House as payload into another strategy.  Cartographer and Stables are probably the best at sifting through a deck with a lot of Copper, but you'd also need some way to ensure that you get one or more into your starting hand.

[jomini]

Chouse has trouble because is a terminal coin for 5 where Gold is a non-terminal coin for 6. The need for a large deck means you see it far less often than the gold and you need a lot more buys to have good odds of hitting it when you want it. Chouse's other major problem is a lack of +buy so you are capped at 6 VP per turn which is not good against an engine.

But there are a lot of things than make a Chouse deck better.

Better VP than Province like:
Colony
Dominate
Fountain
Defiled Shrine
Battlefield
Basilica
Bandit Fort
Salt (to burn off the last few Province/Colony after your final shuffle).
and my personal favorite: Tower (try a Tfair/Chouse mirror, let the other guy go for provinces, you just go for the exponential copper gain).

Free copper:
Mountebank is insanely weak against Chouse, Jester even more so, getting Coppers for free in a sloggy deck works really well, I do not believe have yet lost Chouse vs Mountebank or Jester on a colony board.  Beggar can also work quite well - terminal Gold to buy Chouses (or Duchies/Provs) early in the shuffle and power up Chouses later in the shuffle very quickly.

Shuffle timing:
Scheme
Inn
Wt & all the top deckers (almost always a huge help to do the Chouse-as-draw deck)

Non-terminal +buy:
Special mentions of Candlestick Maker and Villa (which is insanely good with Alms/Chouse), but most any non-terminal cheap +buy works.
Seaway (one some cheap non-terminal)
and of course Tfair


Sure you want Chouse on a small minority of the boards where it is out, but there are a lot of tactical options when it is decent.

[McGarnacle]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

Definitely maybe.

[Seprix]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

Definitely maybe.

All this confusion. Nothing's the same for me. But I can't really tell you the way I feel, since it's all so new to me.