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[gkrieg13]

Teproc reread:

RVS says Hydrad is most likely to be lynched D1.  Also puts Seprix on that list

ADK votes for him for buddying ADK and his reaction seems genuine.

Generally tries to get us out of RVS

claims to be good at reading ADK

I like his reaction to the whole Melis reads list thing.  I think it reads very genuine.

His reasoning for finding Melis at this point also seems like genuine scum hunting.  It is meta driven, but that is something good enough for the beginning of D1.

This post especially looks like solid evaluation and townie from Teproc.  Hopefully he keeps this up in the later days.

votes for JReg

His desire for everyone to have personal text so he can reread them is also townie.  Rereads in general looking for scum is townie.

here he townreads RR and lio, while scum reading Awaclus

Then that town read on lio evaporates with this post:

I haven't had trouble getting into this game, I just have no idea what to say. I don't have a scum read and RVS is over so I shouldn't clutter the thread, so I don't know what to say.

It's lame, I know. 

Ask questions. Try to get someone to slip up.

Good idea.

Liopoil: Are you scum?

lol I didn't sign up for thks kind of interrogation. You'll make whatever I say sound scummy. Not convinced of the value of all these questions people are asking anyway.

Obviously I'm not scum though, but you already knew that right?

This is going to look ridiculous but...

vote: liopoil

Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?

The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !

Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.

I think this change in read is also townie

says e is somewhat scummy

but then says his rereads look townie

changes his read on melis to town

Someone somewhere asked about my ADK town read : read his huge reads list. Town!ADK is one of the most constructive players on this forum, scum!ADK tries his best, but he goes for much shorter posts, observing things as they go along but rarely simulating an overall view of the game.

This post goes along earlier with him saying he has a great ability to read ADK

Melisandre, ADK are super townie.

e and Ichi are townie.

Haddock and Awaclus are scummy-ish. Various reasons, but I can't remember anything by Haddock this game, and he's a player I tend to be find very interesting.

J Reggie (who disappeared once his wagon did) and liopoil are priority lynches.

Everyone else I'm null on, more or less. I need to reread Jan and fontisian : there should be some revealing stuff in there, Jan especially.

This is great!  I thought I was going to have to put this together myself.
So his reads that changed are ADK and Melis.  Somewhat his read on e changed.  His liopoil read did a complete 180.  The only thing surprising about this reads list is that he doesn't have Seprix on it.  Slight scum points for not taking a stance on him.

Says that e vs. Jan is town v town

His first post of the day looks townie.  Originally I thought it looked too put together until I realized the time stamps were 3 hours apart between the opening of the day and his post.  I like his reaction to the lynch and to the claim from lio.

goes into more theory/meta stuff and then disappears.

So Conclusion

My townread on Teproc got a lot stronger after this.  He seems to be scumhunting, moving the game along, taking hard stances on the more controversial stuff.  His case on lio is very genuine, and a good case.  His push of his wagon is warranted.

[gkrieg13]

ADK reread:

votes for Seprix for voting for Melis

believes that the Melis reads list didn't look that contrived

votes Teproc for buddying

says he wants to vote for Awaclus most of the time
 
keeps talking about his Seprix vote, that it was a good one and that Seprix was trying to discourage discussion.  I'm not sure this is the best case on Seprix.  I do think it reads pretty townie though.  But I don't really like this case.  I think scum is more likely to sit back and not get into the discussion D1.  Although some people are unable to do that because of their meta.

his defense here also seems townie

Vote count?

Basically, the problem I have is this: You suddenly changed your read on me as I apply the pressure on you. You cracked. If it didn't work out like that, you would have kept your original read, and you know it. You never mentioned that you were changing your opinion on me before. Seems weird to suddenly bring it up now.

I like my vote. I say ADK is as good a D1 lynch as any.

I changed my opinion on you when you were having your discussion with Melis. About when I made the "this is good" post I think.

Here he changes his opinion on Seprix

I don't like the votes on Seprix. I disagree with his stance but it looks to me like he's earnestly trying to scumhunt.

Then he actually defends Seprix.  This looks like a naturally evolving read.

points Melis to a lot of his games.  I don't think scum is very likely to do that.

votes Hydrad for lurking

vote: liopoil

I've been busy and will be vla later but I will post more before I go.

Here is his vote on the lio wagon the first time.

Wow then he has a super long catchup post

So my lynchpool looks like:

liopoil, Hydrad, Awaclus, Seprix, e. The liopoil read is probably the strongest, with e after that, and I think those would be the most informative lynches. I'm going to go with

Vote: e

I think this is the most important part of that big post.  All 5 of these people actually get wagons on them at the end of the day, which I found somewhat strange.  I have no idea if that is scummy, townie, or just a coincidence.

votes lio then e

wants more to lynch lio, then gets the Awaclus lynch put together.  This doesn't seem that scummy from him.  His end of day play really does look good considering he was fine with lynching any of the wagons, which is what his reread indicated.

D2:

calls Melis town, then votes for ss

votes for iguana and then looks back for his stance on Hydrad

Conclusion

His town read was also strengthened, so I don't want to lynch him. Mainly it was the content of his big long reread post.  His stances on there seem very well-founded and genuine.  Not as strong as a town read as Teproc, because I don't think he has taken as strong of stances and his scum hunting hasn't been as strong.

[fontisian]

To be honest, I'm not really sure if Iguana's thing was a scumslip or not. But, it was more bad analysis from a slot that was inactive and refused to give any reasoning yesterDay and hasn't improved much toDay.

[iguanaiguana]

I'll do my best to respond to the votes on me one at a time, since everyone is more or less voting me for a different reason.

iguana is scum. Scum has daychat. iguana forgot that it was not in the setup. his calling it a town slip is a scum slip. Then, when he realized what he had done, he fabricated this explanation:

So the fact that this question about daychat likelihood even occurred to him indicates town.

which I do not buy. He called it a "classic townslip". Openly wondering about something town does not know - that is not a town slip. That is the lack of a scum slip. it is what scum does with almost every post, whenever they voice a read on someone, they are pretending to think about something they already know.

The crux of silver's argument revolves around the definitions of scumslip and townslip. When I made my post, I was thinking of a townslip as any line of thought that indicates it is coming from town, and would be difficult for scum to fake. Probably, I should have said it was a strong town-tell, not a slip. silver however believes that I, as scum, believed that daychat was posted in the setup and scumslipped.

1) Most games on this site don't have daychat. Already has been said.
2) Why would I make the mistake of thinking that something is posted in the setup when literally almost nothing is posted in the setup? This setup is completely closed, and we're given two paragraphs of very general information on it.
3) Look at the timestamps. I made the townslip comment #1333 at 2:46PM. Seprix responded with post #1335 at 2:49PM. I responded at #1338 with a clarification of what I meant at 2:54PM. The entire space of the interchange was 8 minutes. This was not me inventing a fake explanation to cover up a mistake; that would have taken me longer. It was me clarifying an idea that was already in my head. I read and responded to Seprix's comment within 5 minutes.

[iguanaiguana]

Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy.  And now I just got to this:

Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?

The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !

Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.

This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.

Ewwwww. "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"

Vote: iguanaiguana

I'm good with killing lio too at this point.

Iguana: Why don't you go into more detail on Teproc's d1 and why it looks scummy?

You say I was thinking "I know lio is scum, and want to look good if he gets lynched, but look how scummy Teproc is guys!"

Actually, the line of thinking was:

"Teproc's case looks good in isolation, but in the context it makes Teproc look scummy and Liopoil looks town because Teproc's play has been scummy.

I shared my developing scumread on Teproc here and here. I also really don't like how Teproc disappears and lurks for a long while after making the early posts that I took issue with, only to come back and make a snap case on Liopoil based on him being self-conscious. I don't know what Teproc has done in the middle of the game, because I wasn't there, but his not being around for the EoD1 looks bad, and continuing to tunnel Liopoil after Liopoil has only made towny contributions to the game since the initial 'case' looks bad too.

I will admit that confirmation bias may have played a role. I hesitated to scumread Liopoil for the awkward comment because I was already scumreading Teproc, and he was making the case.

[Jan]

when you are done responding to your accusers could you do me the favor and tell us who you think is likely town and/or scum in-between them, thanks.

(Not sure if anyone but me gets the pure joy i get from asking this here)

[iguanaiguana]

Lmao, what? You think Jan would slip up as scum by claiming day chat either exists or doesn't exist. Seriously?

I do not understand this question at all, as that's not even remotely close to what I was trying to say. Let's look at the original statement again.

If this game does not have scumchat that can be permanently used, then this is coaching = posisble partner.

If this game does have scumchat (during the day), then she would not do this as partner and they are never w/w.

That being said. The setup info didn't clarify how you handle scumchat on this site. Call it a dumbtell, but how do you do it normally?

Jan is thinking out loud here. His line of thought is "I wonder if there is daychat for scum, because if there is, this could be Fontisian coaching Liopoil on how to play."

This is a fairly unique thought, the kind which is hard to make up. It's even harder to make up as scum because as scum, you're not wasting your time wondering whether or not daychat exists in the setup, you already know. So you're vastly less likely to just throw something like that thought out into the thread and see where it goes.

But why am I even arguing about this when we can settle this easily.

Jan: Do you think that you would have been likely to have made up that line of thinking about Fontisian possibly coaching Liopoil if you knew for a fact that daychat for scum did or did not exist?

Bleh, what an awful question. This is super complicated and I feel like I'm doing a terrible job explaining myself : (

[iguanaiguana]

when you are done responding to your accusers could you do me the favor and tell us who you think is likely town and/or scum in-between them, thanks.

(Not sure if anyone but me gets the pure joy i get from asking this here)

You got it.

[iguanaiguana]

Ok, I just realized something that would make this scum!ii make more sense. Nothing was said in thread that indicated Hydrad needed to be replaced, not even a prod or anything. Simply art the start of the day, ii was there instead of Hydrad. This seems a little weird and could be because Hydrad or Hydrad's buddies were talking about it in the scum cutie. It would also make sense as it's more critical for every scum to be dedicated to the game than for every town. This along with the recent case on ii leads me to vote: ii.

Sorry, I was really hoping not to vote for you this game after the way I tunneled you in Fruit Ninja, but the case is just too good.

Alright, this one is fun: there is actually a story here!

First, I was in, then I was out, then I was in, then I was out, then the game filled up. Then I felt really bad that I didn't get to play with all the cool championship people so I pestered Faust about being a sub if anyone wanted to /out. N0 Faust almost subbed me for Hydrad, but ultimately told me that Hydrad had confirmed and he didn't need me. So I watched D1 happen, and I watched Hydrad make a total of 3 posts or whatever the whole day. So I told Faust that if he had reconsidered subbing Hydrad, I still wanted to do it. He told me that he was going to ask Hydrad if he wanted me to sub for him, and if by the end of the night he didn't get a response he would default to letting me sub in. I assume Hydrad did not get a response, because here I am.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....

[iguanaiguana]

Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....

Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.

[gkrieg13]

Iguana reread (at Jan's request):

I have arived!

Why is there like 5 pages of posts already! I missed RVS!

also. Totally forgot that I had signed up for this game I got my message. We will se how this goes.

First thoughts.

Hey we have some championship guys here. Thats pretty neat. This should be a fun game.

Seprix feels like a new person. But I don't think hes played for a while so maybe he just changed a bit? still weird.

Vote: Awaclus for now though.

Vote: Awaclus for now though.


Expand on this please.
I did not like this intro post. It feels very detached/distant.

Ok sorry. uh basically I'm still not really sure where to go at the moment. Awaclus is a nice default for me as his town/scum feel so similar to me and I feel like as town hes less helpful as town (in my opinion) but when hes scum hes also not very helpful but he doesn't need to be as scum. So bascially its just a spot to place my vote for now.

One thing I will say though is I'm really liking you as a player here though. I'm leaning town on you right now.

O liopoil had a wagon that sounds like fun.

I'm going to go

Vote: fontisian though.

This is a more serious vote then the awaclus one.

Man, all of the recent discussion seems like mindless babble over reads and reads lists. We were actually getting some serious stuff done, and now it's all lame.

I think this discussion is keeping progress going.

Its interesting to see.

Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.

@Hydrad - are you struggling to express your thoughts / reads this game... or finding it difficult to interact with players?

Do you have weak reads? At the moment it looks like you don't want any confrontation - i.e no one to counter your scum-reads/votes. [That playstyle makes me paranoid].

Why are you voting fontisian right now?


This is the only read/reason you have fully expressed/explained:

Right now I'm trying to get a read on Jan from all of this though. His list doesn't feel fabricated at least from my perspective. so I think I'm leaning town on him.

You are on the wrong side of null for me at the moment.

Null scum lean.

catching up again.

Basically I hadn't really planned on joining a mafia game as I don't know if I have much time for it right now. But I forgot that I signed up for this and I didn't want to delay it by outing so I'm trying to stay in and keep playing.

Its also more active then most games I feel like around here so it feels hard for me to keep up as I'm usually pretty lurky anyways. (although I will admit this is a new low for me right now :/. )

as for my vote on fontisian. Its mainly a gut feeling right now. we will see though as I haven't read the next few pages that I've missed if something changes.

and we are close to deadline.

Vote: liopoil

That seems like a fun wagon. Lets see what happens.

So this is all of Hydrad's posts.  I quoted them all because there aren't very many of them.  The only two that seem scummy are the liopoil wagon one and then his vote on Awaclus at the beginning.  His vote on fonti seems pretty genuine, so I would go pretty null on these as a whole though.

now Iguana:

This post from Iguana seems pretty townie.  I think scum would've taken a different approach than this.  I think they would've looked at a leading wagon and done a reread of them to support it if it was on town. 

So here he has almost the entirely opposite reaction to the Teproc/ADK stuff as I had.  I feel like scum don't want to have that much interaction together so early in the day.  Still don't know what throwing suspicion onto these two would do for him.

I like the analysis he is putting into these reread posts

Kept wondering when I'd get to the much-discussed cases on Liopoil & e. People are starting to question e's lurking, I too am finding that scummy.  And now I just got to this:

Seriously, it's a simple, jokey question, but it's enough to make liopoil react defensively AND feel the need to add another post because he's scared of the way his first response is read ?

The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !

Roadrunner best scumhunter 2016.

This case on Lio is actually quite good. But I doubt it quite a bit, because it's coming from my second strongest scumread. Teproc early day looked awful, then he disappeared. Coming back with this does not inspire my confidence in the case.

Eh I don't like this.  I think if a case is good, it is a good case.  It doesn't matter so much that it comes from one of your scum reads.

So then we have the whole townslip/scumslip thing.  I think someone who is rereading and notices someone say something about daychat is something you think about.  You have to figure out whether it is more likely to come from scum or to come from town. I think it is either a townslip or a fabricated one personally.

then people start to react to that and he gets defensive.  I understand his defensiveness.  You sub into a game with a lot on your plate and then people start to get to you about something that you still think is a townslip and that you thought was something people hadn't noticed before.  I think this reaction is pretty townie.

Conclusion

I don't think there is anything here to make me want to lynch iguana over others today.  I think he is still in my would lynch at deadline category, but I don't think he has done anything to deserve so many votes on him.  I think I actually lean slightly townie on him.

PPE more stuff from him.

[iguanaiguana]

Alright so currently voting for me are:

Seprix - Town. But I always townread Seprix. But Seprix is always town. Dude is grasping at serious straws here looking for scum, willing to believe almost anything. It's super hard to imitate that kind of cluelessness when you have the game solved.

Fontisian - Uhm....a town??? Her reasons for voting me seem pretty legitimate, although I do think some of it is based in misunderstanding my original posts. She's not buying the scumslip thing, which is a ridiculous argument, so that's town points. But really... she's the mafia champion something something, how am I supposed to be able to tell when she's scum?

Haddock - Pretty null. I can believe that Haddock genuinely thinks I'm scum. He usually does. 

J Reggie - IDK. Seriously, IDK. Sorry. No clue how to read this guy.

silverscum - I was townreading him, now I'm not so convinced. His argument was just, awful. It's hard for me to believe he genuinely believes it & it really feels like he's just trying to push a mislynch because he's good with words, has a good reputation, and therefore he can get away with it.

ADK - Scum. I've already talked about this read. Also he just jumped on the wagon hardly commenting.

Is anyone else voting for me?

Also, these reads are weak, mainly because I still haven't read the entire game yet ><

Better get working on that...

[liopoil]

Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....

Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.

So you're not IC?

With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.

[iguanaiguana]

Also, in fruit ninja, the exact same thing happened with Yuma subbing chairs, and then Yuma used it as an argument for why he should be IC....

Actually, that's pretty much irrelevant. I just find it humorous.

So you're not IC?

With every post of Iguana I want to lynch him less.

I mean, no. Is anyone? It's a closed setup.

[J Reggie]

Thank you gkrieg for the rereads!

[gkrieg13]

Thank you gkrieg for the rereads!

No problem. I'll do scum reads later today or tomorrow

[gkrieg13]

Town:
Melisandre
Roadrunner7671
Teproc
A Drowned Kernel

Slight Town
iguanaiguana

Null
Jan

Slight Scum
fontisian
silverspawn
J Reggie
Haddock

Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....

So now this is the reads list.  I think I'll reread e then Seprix then lio.  As that is the order of my scum reads on them.

e reread:

after RVS, he votes for Seprix

he has a lot of empty posts then says that he has a lot of empty posts but that he likes his Seprix vote

Just reread through the thread, and there is a lot there. 

RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum).  So let's leave him be for now.

Melisandre seems like a pretty confident player, and has been posting all sorts of stuff, and it has read pretty honest to me.  Town for now

liopoil has a lynch brewing in the future for him if he keeps up with the odd posts and 'traps' and such.  Does he really do that as scum?  not so sure. 

fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist.  I am fine keeping it that way on D1.

gkrieg is still voting me from rvs despite making cases and rereading people and finding them scummy, so....vote: gkrieg

silverspawn has some big posts and has some cool things down.  Scummy stuff not really.
 
I voted for Seprix earlier, and maybe that is just because his current play style makes me think scum.  Which, could be right or could be wrong.

Either way, gkrieg is a better place to vote right now.  He is totally just sitting on a vote to look important and not be sitting at "not voting" status

Hydrad is so very Hydrad.  We can lynch him and RR together on D3 when they both breakdown and claim scum for real

I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good.  He gets useful reactions out of people.

ADK does ADK stuff.  He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.

Reggie is cool.  Let's not lynch him

Haddock is over-sensitized to any time that I remotely call him scummy.  Half the time it isn't even real.  I mean, like last game in lylo where I totally found him scummy for everything because I had to.  This half...might actually be a real scum read.

Ichi is town.  Because I said so.

Teproc is scum.  Because

you should reconsider your faust read. pretty sure that guy is some sort of evil overlord with a whole mafia team serving him.

I could get behind that case

But we should lynch his minion gkrieg first.

PPE:2

I guess I OMGUS'd a little bit from this.  But I also made it a little bit easier to read now.  This is an interesting reads list.  I also think the case on me isn't a particularly good one.  The other thing about this reads list is that it doesn't really add anything to the game because he doesn't really give good reasons for any of his reads.

here he says that lio is totally town from his posts.  Something to keep in mind if lio flips scum.

I actually just don't like how all of his rereads look. 

he comes out on the scummy side of null on Seprix, then reads me as scummy, then votes for Hydrad after Jan's post.

here, he gives a good case on Jan actually.  This is a very natural feeling case on someone.

stays on the vein that he doesn't want a lio lynch but is fine with the Seprix lynch when he doesn't think the Jan lynch is going to happen.

stays on Seprix

I am saying that scum exists in the pool of people who were lynch candidates at the end of day. So {liopoil, seprix, e, jan}

I am not scum. I don't think liopoil is. Seprix started the movement, as awaclus is an easy enough target to get quick votes due to his sometimes abrasive personality.

This wagon analysis is interesting.  He thinks that both he and lio are town and that Seprix started the Awaclus wagon to ensure that he wasn't the lynch.  I think if he really thinks that both he and lio are town, why would everyone try to switch to Awaclus instead of just pushing the existing "town" wagons.  I'll have to think more about this analysis to see if it makes any sense to me.

this post and this post seem actually pretty townie to me.

Rereads Teproc and says that there are better lynches out there, but he doesn't want to defend him.

says that Iguana's thing that he commented wasn't a townslip or a scumslip.  Just a new to f.ds-slip

Says that scum is on Iguana's wagon, and thinks it feels fabricated.

Is still insistent that Seprix is scum.

Conclusion

This reread actually weakens my scum read on him.  He is still in the scum lean section of my reads list.  I think he has some much townier posts today, but his D1 looks really bad actually.

[gkrieg13]

Seprix will probably wait until later.

[2.71828.....]

Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....

In what world am I scum with seprix?

[gkrieg13]

Scum:
liopoil
Seprix
2.71828.....

In what world am I scum with seprix?

You weren't on my conspiracy team.  You were independently scummy.

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg's reads:

People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch

And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg's reads:

People I don't think I can lynch -> people I think I can lynch

And then, of wait, it will be kind of hard to lynch e

Not really.  I have Teproc and iguana as town reads.  I think it would be pretty easy to get iguana lynched seeing as I can put him at L-1.

[Seprix]

Seprix will probably wait until later.

I was looking forward to that.

[Melisandre]

lio
Melisandre
Jan
gkreig
Iguana
e

@fontisian - Talk me through your scum/scum-leans reads.