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[Hydrad]

Why?

Well, it just mostly felt like he was genuinely trying to help the newbie townies find the scum and not mislynch people for stupid reasons. Just an impression like that. Of course, that's just my subjective view, and I'm aware that it could be just him being good at acting like a helpful pro-town player and me being bad at telling that it's just an act, so if you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'm very willing to change my view about this. I just find the arguments you and Hugovj were using against him overly aggressive, and not very strong.

While I appreciate the towny vibes your getting from this I just want you to be aware that thats something that is really easily faked and if I did roll scum I would have said probably the exact same stuff. So I would be careful in giving town reads on people who give advice because I know that I will give advice to new players as town or scum.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Why?

Well, it just mostly felt like he was genuinely trying to help the newbie townies find the scum and not mislynch people for stupid reasons. Just an impression like that. Of course, that's just my subjective view, and I'm aware that it could be just him being good at acting like a helpful pro-town player and me being bad at telling that it's just an act, so if you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'm very willing to change my view about this. I just find the arguments you and Hugovj were using against him overly aggressive, and not very strong.

While I appreciate the towny vibes your getting from this I just want you to be aware that thats something that is really easily faked and if I did roll scum I would have said probably the exact same stuff. So I would be careful in giving town reads on people who give advice because I know that I will give advice to new players as town or scum.

Well you really know how to not make yourself look towny.

[mpsprs]

Why?

Well, it just mostly felt like he was genuinely trying to help the newbie townies find the scum and not mislynch people for stupid reasons. Just an impression like that. Of course, that's just my subjective view, and I'm aware that it could be just him being good at acting like a helpful pro-town player and me being bad at telling that it's just an act, so if you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'm very willing to change my view about this. I just find the arguments you and Hugovj were using against him overly aggressive, and not very strong.

While I appreciate the towny vibes your getting from this I just want you to be aware that thats something that is really easily faked and if I did roll scum I would have said probably the exact same stuff. So I would be careful in giving town reads on people who give advice because I know that I will give advice to new players as town or scum.

Well you really know how to not make yourself look towny.

Yeah, no kidding.

Everyone:  "We're getting a town read from Hydrad"
Hydrad: "Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves here."

The point is well-taken though

[Hydrad]

Ya I just don't want people to get town reads on me for the wrong reasons. I feel town reads based on things like that are the first ones to fall apart. So while I'm hoping to get town reads on me I don't want them to get town reads on me for the wrong reasons. Although I guess I shouldn't technically care how I get a town read on me.

[AndrewisFTTW]

If you're town you owe it to the rest of the town to look as towny as possible.

[mpsprs]

If you're town you owe it to the rest of the town to look as towny as possible.

True, but you also want the other townies to be looking hard at everybody, and reconsidering their thoughts.  I want to be towny as possible, and I'd like for my teammates to eventually read me as such, but I don't want them to stop considering all options, because not everyone they read is towny will be town.

[Qvist]

Unvote because Qvist said so and I believed him.

Btw, why do you believe me already? If you ask me, I'm still in the "I don't trust anybody" phase.

[Awaclus]

Unvote because Qvist said so and I believed him.

Btw, why do you believe me already? If you ask me, I'm still in the "I don't trust anybody" phase.

Well, in fact I don't. Like I said, a you/Hydrad scum pairing would make sense, and as was pointed out by someone else, it's for exactly the reason that you were voting for Hydrad early and removed your vote when it became a wagon. I still do believe that the advice in general was good advice, because as town you wouldn't want to give malicious advice and as scum you wouldn't want to get caught giving malicious advice, there's just a possibility that it just was a convenient time to give that advice in order to get Hydrad out of trouble.

Speaking of Hydrad, his response to me finding him towny is very strange. At first, it looked like he was just saying it for fun, but then it started looking like he's scum trying to (to go with the flavor)  fish for more town points, and now it's looking like he's scum trying to subtly tell his scum partner, me, that I should stop saying how towny he is - I obviously know that I'm not his scum partner and so does Hydrad, but the rest of you don't. Did he post that without realizing that this is a conclusion that would be drawn (maybe this is just me overthinking it, and maybe anyone else wouldn't even have made that connection), or is there a reason why he would want that everyone thinks that we have a me/Hydrad scum pair? If he's town, definitely none. If he's scum, I guess in the best case scenario he might manage to get me lynched, thus protecting his real scum partner from my suspicion (I guess that would be... ADK? Or perhaps Qvist or Andrew if he was worried about my secondary scum guesses), and then he could try to argue that "see, that wasn't the scum pairing, I'm town too" after I flipped town. I guess that's not impossible. Does anyone else think anything about this, am I overthinking things here? Could Hydrad explain himself?

[silverspawn]

I doubt Hydrad was thinking so far, but if he was going to flip scum at some point, it's possible that others were going to draw similar conclusions.

[mpsprs]

Does anyone else think anything about this, am I overthinking things here? Could Hydrad explain himself?

As we previously discussed, I don't think I'm drawing anywhere near as strong a conclusion about this (which is not to say you are drawing a strong conclusion-just more than mine.  I think Hydrad was basically saying exactly what Qvist said:

Btw, why do you believe me already? If you ask me, I'm still in the "I don't trust anybody" phase.

just in a peculiar way.  Is that peculiar way an indication of scum?  Probably not.  Is it worth noting?  Probably yes.

I doubt Hydrad was thinking so far, but if he was going to flip scum at some point, it's possible that others were going to draw similar conclusions.

Pretty much, I agree with this.  With the addenda that if Awaclus were to flip scum, we should look back at this and draw conclusions about Hydrad (and SS and me).  And so on.  Basically, I think this area of conversation has lots of information for down the line when we have flips.  A

And that is surely good for us.

[Qvist]

So, first you believe me, then not. Weird.

and now it's looking like he's scum trying to subtly tell his scum partner, me, that I should stop saying how towny he is

Also, why would you point out that it seems that you are Hydrad's scum partner? If it's not true, I would gladly ignore that and hope that no-one notices it and if it's true, it makes even less sense pointing it out. I don't think anyone has noticed that Hydrad supposedly was trying to tell you anything like that.

Does anyone else think anything about this, am I overthinking things here?

Yes, you are either overthinking this or you are scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why?

Well, it just mostly felt like he was genuinely trying to help the newbie townies find the scum and not mislynch people for stupid reasons. Just an impression like that. Of course, that's just my subjective view, and I'm aware that it could be just him being good at acting like a helpful pro-town player and me being bad at telling that it's just an act, so if you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'm very willing to change my view about this. I just find the arguments you and Hugovj were using against him overly aggressive, and not very strong.

Bolding added. Are you saying that there are people who are trying to do that? And I'm sceptical of the claim that Hydrad is doing much scumhunting, both of his votes were joke votes and most of his posts have been him defending himself.

[Hydrad]

hmmm well I can honestly tell you I did not intend for any of the possible scum partners at all to happen in that statement. That statement was just kinda on a whim I wrote how I don't think me giving advice is enough to get a read on as anyone here will probably give advice and I think thats a dangerous thing to give town reads for.

So ya you guys are all looking way to far into it.

[Awaclus]

So, first you believe me, then not. Weird.

and now it's looking like he's scum trying to subtly tell his scum partner, me, that I should stop saying how towny he is

Also, why would you point out that it seems that you are Hydrad's scum partner? If it's not true, I would gladly ignore that and hope that no-one notices it and if it's true, it makes even less sense pointing it out. I don't think anyone has noticed that Hydrad supposedly was trying to tell you anything like that.

Does anyone else think anything about this, am I overthinking things here?

Yes, you are either overthinking this or you are scum.

I still believe that the advice was good, that's what I said in the previous post as well and that's all I was originally referring to. There never was a point where I thought you couldn't be scum, but so far, there is a reason to suspect you only if Hydrad is scum, too.

I pointed out that it seems that I'm Hydrad's scum partner because I thought that it seems like I'm Hydrad's scum partner. I just noticed it, but I didn't know if it was intentional or not, so I brought it up in order to let more experienced players and especially those who have played with Hydrad before state their opinions about it. If others thought that Hydrad was doing it intentionally, then I guess the only conclusion we could have drawn from that is that it was scummy, and then we could have lynched him, but if it looks like I'm just overthinking this, then I still think he is town. This is a slightly complicated decision, so I didn't want to convince myself that one alternative is right before hearing from others. Anyway, if there started to be more hints of Hydrad being scum later, then this would certainly have affected my opinion about it, and I would have had to point it out anyway, or someone else could have pointed it out then, and I think that it was better to point it out right away.

In any case, it looks like everyone else thinks that I'm overthinking this, and you can't all be Hydrad's scum partner so that's probably true.

Why?

Well, it just mostly felt like he was genuinely trying to help the newbie townies find the scum and not mislynch people for stupid reasons. Just an impression like that. Of course, that's just my subjective view, and I'm aware that it could be just him being good at acting like a helpful pro-town player and me being bad at telling that it's just an act, so if you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'm very willing to change my view about this. I just find the arguments you and Hugovj were using against him overly aggressive, and not very strong.

Bolding added. Are you saying that there are people who are trying to do that? And I'm sceptical of the claim that Hydrad is doing much scumhunting, both of his votes were joke votes and most of his posts have been him defending himself.

I'm not claiming that he's doing scumhunting, I'm claiming that he was helping newbies avoid stupid mislynches, and thus, focus on finding the actual scum. Well, that was what I got from him at the very start of the game, that's why it was the first item on my list of observations, he hasn't been doing much of that lately. Let me ask you, why do you think that he's scum?

I doubt Hydrad was thinking so far, but if he was going to flip scum at some point, it's possible that others were going to draw similar conclusions.

Does anyone else think anything about this, am I overthinking things here? Could Hydrad explain himself?

As we previously discussed, I don't think I'm drawing anywhere near as strong a conclusion about this (which is not to say you are drawing a strong conclusion-just more than mine.  I think Hydrad was basically saying exactly what Qvist said:

Btw, why do you believe me already? If you ask me, I'm still in the "I don't trust anybody" phase.

just in a peculiar way.  Is that peculiar way an indication of scum?  Probably not.  Is it worth noting?  Probably yes.

I doubt Hydrad was thinking so far, but if he was going to flip scum at some point, it's possible that others were going to draw similar conclusions.

Pretty much, I agree with this.  With the addenda that if Awaclus were to flip scum, we should look back at this and draw conclusions about Hydrad (and SS and me).  And so on.  Basically, I think this area of conversation has lots of information for down the line when we have flips.  A

And that is surely good for us.

Yeah, this sounds reasonable.

[Hydrad]

also ADK you seem to be pretty set on me being scum right now. Do you have any other scum reads right now or ideas of who my "partner" is?

For me I have a feeling that there is a scum in one of the vets right now. Lots of the new players I'm getting town vibes from. I guess mpsprs and pit I'm still fairly hesitant on right now. But I think my scum pool is around ADK/Andrew/Qvist for who I want to lynch. I'm going to unvote right now while I think about which one is more likely to be scum.

[AndrewisFTTW]

also ADK you seem to be pretty set on me being scum right now. Do you have any other scum reads right now or ideas of who my "partner" is?

For me I have a feeling that there is a scum in one of the vets right now. Lots of the new players I'm getting town vibes from. I guess mpsprs and pit I'm still fairly hesitant on right now. But I think my scum pool is around ADK/Andrew/Qvist for who I want to lynch. I'm going to unvote right now while I think about which one is more likely to be scum.

While I think Awaclus is doing a good job, that's noy really how Hydrad plays. He really just speaks his mind without thinking about the repercussions,  or so it seems.

That said, this post by Hydrad is super scummy. Hiis scum reads are the only two people who have played more than three or so games and the guy who's talking a whole lot of sense. Seems like reasonable targets for new scum and he doesn't have a case to back up any of his reads.

I'm not sure how many votes are on Hydrad right now so

unvote

Until I can go check a vote count.

[Hydrad]

I think i only have 1 vote on me right now so you should be fine.

[Hydrad]

reasons for my top 3:

Qvist: hasn't posted much and most of his posts don't have a ton of content. But its still early day 1 so its really hard to come up with content right now. Probaably my weakest of the 3.

ADK: seems to have picked me and is sticking with me. I don't think I've ever seen ADK do something like this especially day 1 and just feels weird. He seems to be pretty confident for some reason. Just doesn't feel right.

Andrew: Is voteswapping the most out of everyone. I think he has 4-5 different votes this game. Seems like hes kinda jumping around until he gets a wagon to start on someone to try and get a mislynch.

I think I'm going with Vote: Andrew right now as Qvists isn't that scummy really and I feel a bit better on andrew then ADK.

Also note this is Lynch in 1 for andrew! so the next vote on him will kill him.

[silverspawn]

about Hydrad: I think he might be scum here. That is, I feel that he's scum. But I'm not entirely certain about why I feel it, which is untypical. I could explain a few reasons though.

The first thing is, his posts are longer, and they have more content. It's probably reasonable to assume that Hydrad is still changing up his meta, but I find that his town self usually posts a lot of one-liners with little content.

I think these posts are problematic:

While I appreciate the towny vibes your getting from this I just want you to be aware that thats something that is really easily faked and if I did roll scum I would have said probably the exact same stuff. So I would be careful in giving town reads on people who give advice because I know that I will give advice to new players as town or scum.

Ya I just don't want people to get town reads on me for the wrong reasons. I feel town reads based on things like that are the first ones to fall apart. So while I'm hoping to get town reads on me I don't want them to get town reads on me for the wrong reasons. Although I guess I shouldn't technically care how I get a town read on me.

This just screams "LOOK AT THIS POST. SCUM WOULD NOT MAKE THIS KIND OF POST" to me. WIFOM - I guess? But town!Hydrad doesn't do these kinds of posts. He would just let it rest.

Another thing is his voting manner. He starts of with two extremely early votes, as it is typical for him, but then he doesn't vote at all. I'm not entirely sure, but I think his town self didn't do that.

Then there's the "let me help noobies" thing. I think this could be genuine!town!Hydrad, but it could also be letmedosafeposts!scum!hydrad. Of course, noone is really giving town points for that anymore, so meh it's probably pretty nullish.

I'm feeling even stronger about pit though. Yea, this is his first game, but again, I know him pretty well, and I just don't think he is the kind of player who lurks in his first game. He usually has strong opinions, even if he isn't that experienced in something, and he isn't afraid to share them. Don't let this avatar fool you, the guy is not timid. I also don't buy that he keeps lurking because of my initial comment. But I could see scum!pit thinking, okay this kind be dangerous, let's start by staying in the background, I will probably just be ignored. That might not be very smart from a more experienced perspective, but he can't really know the concept of lurking.

vote: Pit

for now.

Andrew is somewhat scummy, but not as much anymore.

Awaclus is very towny. PPS, I'm not sure, he's hard to read. Qvist, also not sure, but he seems geniune, so slightly towny here. ADK, I think he has responded in a reasonable manner after his initial post, so town points for that. Hugov, I have no idea. He could easily be scum, but I wouldn't call this a scum read. I just don't think this kind of style is hard to replicate, but he hasn't done anything that looks scummy. so, null.

PEE: oh, another long post. thanks for underlining my point.

[Hydrad]

I have to make longer posts sometimes. Its interesting that having longer posts makes you think I'm scum though.

[Awaclus]

PPS, I'm not sure, he's hard to read.

Who's that?

[silverspawn]

I have to make longer posts sometimes. Its interesting that having longer posts makes you think I'm scum though.

and from now on, it's not a scum tell anymore, just WIFOM. maybe I should have given you more time to be scummy this game before saying it?

[Hydrad]

PPS, I'm not sure, he's hard to read.

Who's that?

Usually thats Pingpongsam... but hes not in this game. so i dunno

[Hydrad]

I have to make longer posts sometimes. Its interesting that having longer posts makes you think I'm scum though.

and from now on, it's not a scum tell anymore, just WIFOM. maybe I should have given you more time to be scummy this game before saying it?

Well I guess it would be a problem if I was scum. But since I'm town all its going to be is you realizing next game that longer posts doesn't always mean I'm scum.

[Awaclus]

i dunno

Thanks for your input.