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[EFHW]

faust has lurked all day today.  Come back and talk to us faust! 

[EFHW]

Flavor typically implies kill type, unless otherwise noted in setup rules.

Ok, wow. I'm going to have to rethink this a bit.

why?  This is the assumption we have been working with.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Flavor typically implies kill type, unless otherwise noted in setup rules.

Ok, wow. I'm going to have to rethink this a bit.

why?  This is the assumption we have been working with.

I haven't been working with this assumption

[faust]

Responding to stuff as I move along.

Faust did get the prize because we all ended up voting ourselves, random.org gave it to Faust.

I am a Vanilla Monster, I didn't target anybody.

That's enough to vote:Axxle. There could be some redirection going on, but I doubt it, we have seen a Nexus already. So this is just a lie.

[faust]

Also, why would anyone kill Andrew, who was suspected.  And leave me alive, which helps a great deal in POE.  I think they do not have complete control over where their kill goes.

I think one scum may have wanted to take out the other? Either that, or there's a 2-player scum team that decided they can push their last mislynch through if they kill Andrew (maybe because they think they can convince EFHW).

[Axxle]

Flavor typically implies kill type, unless otherwise noted in setup rules.

Ok, wow. I'm going to have to rethink this a bit.

why?  This is the assumption we have been working with.

I haven't been working with this assumption

you italicized voted for faust, not bolded, fyi.

[faust]

So we won the prize, huh? EFHW, I think you should decide who of us gets to use it.

Do you know what it does?

No. But I suppose it's somehow beneficial to us. It's certainly bad if it falls into scum hands.

Here is faust suggesting I decide who gets the prize.  He knew who his housemates were then.  What changed?

mail-mi flipped town. That meant, in my eyes, that there were most likely two scum left among DeDe/Archetype/Axxle/Andrew. I believed Archetype's claim, and DeDe was the towniest of the rest. So to me the most likely thing was that I my sorority members were both scum. I didn't want the prize to fall into scum hands.

When I asked you that question, I still hoped we would lynch Axxle. That didn't happen, though. If we had lynched scum, I might have followed your plan. The way it was, though, the risk of scum getting the prize was just too high.

[faust]

Well, maybe I should check my messages before posting stuff. So yeah, I got the prize tonight (everyone in our QT voted for themselves, so it was decided randomly). It was a 1-shot Tracker. I tracked Axxle, he targeted Andrew.

Axxle said that Andrew didn't vote, you are saying everyone voted for themselves.

ashersky made it very clear that if Andrew didn't vote in his next post, that would be counted as him voting for himself. He didn't vote. I counted that as him voting for himself.

[faust]

I don't see how it helped either.  I may start policy voting town liars.  Have you already forgotten the fiasco the last time you lied (that I know about)?  I think that was LOTR2.  And why didn't you use your sensor power?  That would have been so valuable today.  Maybe you don't have that, either.  Evading the kill made things murkier, unless you were told that a kill on you was stopped.  What makes you "pretty sure"?  Actual information, or just a notion?

What benefit did you get from accusing faust with made-up evidence?

From accusing Faust we got interactions. I couldn't commute and sensor in the same night. If I had sensored instead of commuted, I would be dead.

While it is true that Arch had reasons to lie, I think that accusing me was bad, because it biased people towards thinking that I am scum.

[faust]

Andrew's flip is soooo strange. Like, I was sure he's scum. And why would anyone kill him?

If you were sure he was scum, then why did you refuse to vote for him when I asked everyone to pick between mail-mi and Andrew?

I was sure he was scum AFTER mail-mi's flip.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 5.3:

faust (1):  Axxle
Axxle (1):  faust

Not Voting (4):  EFHW, Arch, DD

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on June 16 at 7:00 p.m.

[faust]

Do you have actual evidence that there was a second kill attempt last night?

Dd, they didn't both target Andrew.  The flavor has been very consistent, and it's clear only door tossing killed him.

We're missing a NK. I'm a claimed psuedo-cop who commuted. The logical explanation is that someone tried to kill me and failed.

Except Andrew isn't a logical choice at all, so he could have been killed instead of you somehow.  It seems like if there were two kills, they either both would have wanted to kill you, or the scum on the wagon would have tried to kill me, and the scum off the wagon would try to kill you.

If there is any more information you haven't shared, I think now would be a good time.

There's no other information to share.

Andrew was not-Mafia in my eyes and I never understood everyone else's scumread on him. I think Axxle killed Andrew because he knew that the SK (Faust) would kill me because he would be lynched the next day if he didn't (Since I'd cop him) and/or he knew my DeDo was a 1-shot Commuter (which he stated previously made the most sense).

Questions:

1. How would Axxle "know" that I'm a SK?
2. If Axxle really somehow was sure I was SK, why kill Andrew and not me? Or why kill Andrew or not EFHW? I think the most logical things for scum to do are A) going after the third faction, B) going after confirmed town, C) going after claimed PRs. Yet you claim scum would not choose any of these options.

[faust]

Faust: why did you target me?

To me, the situation was like this: three scum in DeDe/Axxle/Andrew. I was most convinced of Andrew's scumminess. So I wanted to investigate one of DeDe/Axxle to find the other scum. I chose Axxle because he was more likely scum in my eyes.

[faust]

I'm sorry, but Axxle just has to be scum. There's 2 scum out of Axxle/Faust/DD and guaranteed 1 between Axxle/Faust. Axxle's interactions with WW and Teproc should make it obvious that he's their partner. Faust's selfish acts (In the context of this game) like voting for himself to recieve the prize and DD's willingness to just have no one get the prize should make it clear that Faust is the SK. So we should be lynching between Faust/Axxle certainly, but I prefer Axxle because I fear that if I'm NK'd tonight he won't be lynched in LyLo.

Me voting for myself wasn't selfish, it was the only logical thing to do as town. What other selfish acts are you referring to?

[faust]

I'd lean more to faust in this scenario, I think, because, as arch pointed out, he's been selfish and I've had a scum read on him before.

Can you please support this with evidence?

On arch's lying, this actually makes me think he's more town. It's obviously confusing and oculd have back fired like it has in a lot of past games, but if he was scum, there would be no real reason for him to come clean and say why he lied. Given the prize he had,  I get the lie on the commuter. He also said he'd vote for me in the forums if he couldn't vote for himself, which gives me a town read. I don't think scum!arch would be willing to give it to someone who's town. Then again this might have been a ploy, but I doubt it.

I'm actually torn on Arch's lying. Sure, it all makes sense within the town narrative. But it's also convenient for him how he can get to LyLo as a claimed Cop variant without ever having to give a result. That's a question for tomorrow though, today we lynch Axxle.

[Axxle]

Who did archetype shoot in that case?

[Axxle]

If you think I'm scum and not arch, is DD the last scum?

[faust]

That leaves faust/arch, arch/axxel, me/axxel.

If it's me/arch, it'd be a lot easier for us to win if arch just claimed to have a guilty on faust.

You know it's not me and you.

Therefore if there's a 2 man scumteam it's faust/arch.

Tell me Axxle, how do YOU know it's not DeDe? Or are you just buddying him to get him to mislynch me?

[faust]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

What exactly excludes an Axxle/Arch scumteam? That Arch didn't claim to have investigated me? But I had already claimed my result on Axxle, and maybe Arch thought I would be believed over him. Plus, Arch needed a convincing narrative to explain why he's still alive if he's going to claim I am scum.

Note that Arch in fact DID claim he sensored me, only to make a turnaround later.

[faust]

faust has lurked all day today.  Come back and talk to us faust!

That's unfair. Monday was a holiday in Germany, so sorry if I haven't been here.

[Axxle]

That leaves faust/arch, arch/axxel, me/axxel.

If it's me/arch, it'd be a lot easier for us to win if arch just claimed to have a guilty on faust.

You know it's not me and you.

Therefore if there's a 2 man scumteam it's faust/arch.

Tell me Axxle, how do YOU know it's not DeDe? Or are you just buddying him to get him to mislynch me?

Because the only way you'd lie is if you had a partner, and that's a lot more likely to be archetype because of the kill choice and who you decided to "track".

[faust]

Who did archetype shoot in that case?

You, probably? And you were bulletproof.

[faust]

If you think I'm scum and not arch, is DD the last scum?

That would be implied, yes. I'm not actually sure Arch is town. DeDe at least doesn't seem to be your scum partner, if he is, that's quite the show you're doing here. He could conceivably be opposing scum though.

[Axxle]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

What exactly excludes an Axxle/Arch scumteam? That Arch didn't claim to have investigated me? But I had already claimed my result on Axxle, and maybe Arch thought I would be believed over him. Plus, Arch needed a convincing narrative to explain why he's still alive if he's going to claim I am scum.

Note that Arch in fact DID claim he sensored me, only to make a turnaround later.

And how easy that push would have been. I need to fakeclaim a weak cop and failing at getting night actions in more often.

[Axxle]

Who did archetype shoot in that case?

You, probably? And you were bulletproof.

I know you're lying about my targeting, but to an outsider...

That's decent reasoning. I'll think more on it.

Bus drivers and redirectors are bastard, right?