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[AndrewisFTTW]

Archetype, how is not being suspected a scumtell? EFHW wasn't suspected, is she scum?

Mafia are aware of one another and so don't (generally) throw suspicion on one another. They want to throw suspicion onto Town so that they can be lynched. You coming under very little suspicion isn't the whole reason for my vote on you - some POE to you/mail-mi, the WW vote, that, and going after mail-mi all contribute.

Also you say PoE.  Why isn't Andrew, faust, or DD mafia? I know I have non-mafia reads on some of these but I want to hear your reasons.

I have a non-Mafia read on Andrew and Faust and a Town read on DD. DD for some stuff in our house + some other previously stated stuff. Andrew and Faust could be SK, but you could be SK or Mafia. I think mafia, but SK isn't bad either.

How is Axxle likely to be mafia? And mafia and SK are two completely different things. You can't just say "you're probably mafia but if not you're the SK."

[Axxle]

Maybe? In which case we should be looking for sk type behavior. But I think we should worry about that after there's only one kill tonight.

Where have you guys been?  I and others have been talking about a 2nd faction for awhile now.  It's been clear from the start of the day that the two main wagons - Andrew and mail-mi - could not be partners for WW and Teproc.  True, 2 kills tonight would tell us there was a 3rd child and probable SK, but it is hardly news that a second faction is just as likely.

I have asked you why mailmi can't be a partner and you have not said.

We had this discussion.  Remember I said Teproc could have short-circuited the mail-mi wagon by simply bringing up the prize issue, and you said "hm" and unvoted?  It also seemed clear to me that Teproc was equally happy for either mail-mi or joth to be lynched.  Teproc's voting that day went like this:  WW, joth,  unvote, joth, mail-mi L1, joth L-1.  He could have very credibly have said he thought joth was scum and stayed off the mail-mi wagon altogether, and instead he put him to L-1.

I thought it was enough at the time, but at the start of the game I think mafia is more willing to bus their partners than later on.

[EFHW]

Looking at flavor, there are two ways people have died.  Being contaminated by a human child, and being tossed through a door.  Is there someone who tosses people through doors in the movies??

From this, I think we can be confident that:
-- N1 yuma was double targeted
-- N2 ADK was killed by WW (and X?) and Robz was killed by the other nk-capable person or persons, we'll call him/them "Y,Z?"
-- N3 chairs was killed by WW,X? and WW was killed by Y,Z?.

Since Y,Z? has shot three times, and every night, I think we can also rule out a town vig, just in case anyone was still considering that. 

I'm still surprised at the choice of ADK for the human child nk.  His accusation of WW was pretty weak and wasn't much of a threat to WW.  He had already said all there was to say about it.  I had thought it was a way to set WW up, but since WW killed him, I'm wondering why that choice, since it made him look bad.  It also means WW,X? didn't try to kill Robz, who was a real danger to them.  It suggests there may have some kind of target switching by Y,Z?. 

Andrew's conviction that WW was scum suggests he may have been one of Y,Z?.  DD and Axxle also voted for WW on Day 3, so they could also have suspected and nk'd him.  It also makes sense that Y,Z? would be someone who suspected WW b/c they would have worried about being killed by WW, and therefore redirected his nk.  Andrew would have been the most worried of anyone.

[EFHW]

Scratch that last part.  Andrew didn't voice suspicions until Day 3.  Sorry.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Now that I think about it, WW was the perfect NK for a SK so that suspicion would be immediately cast on me after that long fight I had with WW. I don't think whoever killed him had to think about it too much or even had to have had a scum read on WW beforehand as it deflects suspicion quite well.

[EFHW]

Another hole in my theory - WW was a nexus, so redirecting would not have affected him, unless it was odd-night or something like that.  I still don't understand why he would have targeted ADK when there were 2 IC and a cop to target instead.

[EFHW]

Tomorrow I'll try to find time to look at the "Andrew and mail-mi can't both be town" theory again.

[AndrewisFTTW]

So WW, at the risk of being made to look like even more of an asshole than I already look like, how come you didn't say anything like this when I was being harassed by ash in WoT? You even referenced ash here when you said you didn't know if this was just my playstyle. I didn't take any of what ash said personally because I knew it was part of the game, but you were scum partners with him and knew what he was up to so why did you let him take it that far? Do you see this as any different?

I'm quite certain that nothing useful will come out of following this road any further.

This still bothers me as I was hoping to get answers to my questions because I think they were important questions from a scumhunting perspective. Basically what I was saying was in WoT, ash jumped on me and never let go. WW was his scum partner and never suggested that ash had done anything wrong, even after the game. In this game, WW effectively killed my argument and nearly got me lynched by saying he was offended and suggesting that I was violating the civility pledge. I wanted to investigate this further but especially after faust's comment, I decided I better not. I would really like to discuss this further after the game but for now, faust why did you feel compelled to write this comment and stop all discussion on this topic? Did you think I was taking things too far and violating the civility pledge? Because if not I don't see a reason why we shouldn't have a discussion on anything that seems important. At that point it seemed like WW was completely off the table as a lynch so I could see a scum partner defending WW and pushing for my lynch without much fear of repercussion.

[Archetype]

Archetype, how is not being suspected a scumtell? EFHW wasn't suspected, is she scum?

Mafia are aware of one another and so don't (generally) throw suspicion on one another. They want to throw suspicion onto Town so that they can be lynched. You coming under very little suspicion isn't the whole reason for my vote on you - some POE to you/mail-mi, the WW vote, that, and going after mail-mi all contribute.

Also you say PoE.  Why isn't Andrew, faust, or DD mafia? I know I have non-mafia reads on some of these but I want to hear your reasons.

I have a non-Mafia read on Andrew and Faust and a Town read on DD. DD for some stuff in our house + some other previously stated stuff. Andrew and Faust could be SK, but you could be SK or Mafia. I think mafia, but SK isn't bad either.

How is Axxle likely to be mafia? And mafia and SK are two completely different things. You can't just say "you're probably mafia but if not you're the SK."

I have a scumread on Axxle. Mafia and SK are both scum and I think it's likely that he could be either.

[Archetype]

Looking at flavor, there are two ways people have died.  Being contaminated by a human child, and being tossed through a door.  Is there someone who tosses people through doors in the movies??

From this, I think we can be confident that:
-- N1 yuma was double targeted
-- N2 ADK was killed by WW (and X?) and Robz was killed by the other nk-capable person or persons, we'll call him/them "Y,Z?"
-- N3 chairs was killed by WW,X? and WW was killed by Y,Z?.

Since Y,Z? has shot three times, and every night, I think we can also rule out a town vig, just in case anyone was still considering that. 

I'm still surprised at the choice of ADK for the human child nk.  His accusation of WW was pretty weak and wasn't much of a threat to WW.  He had already said all there was to say about it.  I had thought it was a way to set WW up, but since WW killed him, I'm wondering why that choice, since it made him look bad.  It also means WW,X? didn't try to kill Robz, who was a real danger to them.  It suggests there may have some kind of target switching by Y,Z?. 

Andrew's conviction that WW was scum suggests he may have been one of Y,Z?.  DD and Axxle also voted for WW on Day 3, so they could also have suspected and nk'd him.  It also makes sense that Y,Z? would be someone who suspected WW b/c they would have worried about being killed by WW, and therefore redirected his nk.  Andrew would have been the most worried of anyone.

Something else I wonder is: why wasn't yuma Janitored N1?

[Axxle]

Arch! I need reasons for your reeeeeeeaaaaads!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Archetype]

To reply to Axxle...

DeDe has both Teproc and WW as town reads. Not sure if scum would do that.

Then WW tries to start a wagon on mail-mi short before deadline. Knowing that the main lynch alternative is joth (hence town), I don't think mail-mi is his partner. Teproc switches on this wagon later on.

D2 doesn't give much, but I think DeDe's and Andrew's reactions to Robz' claim were on the scummier side.

D3, there's this: DeDe apparently forgetting that there is a Janitor. I think it's genuine, which would mean that DeDe is not Teproc's partner. Then, DeDe has his turn on WW, which at the time I found scummy, but knowing that WW is scum, it looks better.
ad to choose someone for the WW kill, it would likely be Andrew, but then again, would SK!Andrew makes such an obvious move?

I agree with the majority of this by Faust. I disagree with the "putting both Teproc and WW as Townreads means he's not their partner". This is DD's 2nd (?) game and I could see him putting them both as Townreads as newbie scum.

There's also a couple of QT things that I will not be disclosing (unless EFHW asks me to).

PPE: Axxle asking for this post

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.7:

Andrew (2):  mail-mi, EFHW
DD (1): Andrew
Axxle (3):  archetype, faust, DD
mail-mi (1):  Axxle

Not Voting (0):

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends on June 6 at 7:00 p.m.

[Axxle]

It'd be really helpful if you said before you know, die

[Archetype]

It'd be really helpful if you said before you know, die

Eh, alright. I should be asleep, but I'll be brief.

I recieved the Decomissed Door. It's a Day QT maker. I choose someone, and a Daychat QT is opened for the two of us. I chose chairs because he is an IC and out of him and EFHW was the most likely to not be killed since he was lurking...guess I was wrong there.

DD voted to give it to ADK. ADK voted to give it to himself. I voted for myself. WW voted for me. WW and DD refused to vote for one another. I even let everyone know that I'd vote for DD if I couldn't vote for myself. But instead of voting for me like I would expect scum!DD, he voted for ADK to have it and make it be out of the game forever.

Plus on the google maps search thing he worked really hard while WW (and me, and ADK...) totally slacked off. I would expect WW to help his partner instead of just sitting back.

Actually, thinking about this more, WW sitting just sitting back implicates mail-mi over Axxle.

[Axxle]

Thanks, that pretty much confirms you're town in my eyes

[Axxle]

Tomorrow I'll try to find time to look at the "Andrew and mail-mi can't both be town" theory again.

Have you considered why you aren't dead yet?

[faust]

So WW, at the risk of being made to look like even more of an asshole than I already look like, how come you didn't say anything like this when I was being harassed by ash in WoT? You even referenced ash here when you said you didn't know if this was just my playstyle. I didn't take any of what ash said personally because I knew it was part of the game, but you were scum partners with him and knew what he was up to so why did you let him take it that far? Do you see this as any different?

I'm quite certain that nothing useful will come out of following this road any further.

This still bothers me as I was hoping to get answers to my questions because I think they were important questions from a scumhunting perspective. Basically what I was saying was in WoT, ash jumped on me and never let go. WW was his scum partner and never suggested that ash had done anything wrong, even after the game. In this game, WW effectively killed my argument and nearly got me lynched by saying he was offended and suggesting that I was violating the civility pledge. I wanted to investigate this further but especially after faust's comment, I decided I better not. I would really like to discuss this further after the game but for now, faust why did you feel compelled to write this comment and stop all discussion on this topic? Did you think I was taking things too far and violating the civility pledge? Because if not I don't see a reason why we shouldn't have a discussion on anything that seems important. At that point it seemed like WW was completely off the table as a lynch so I could see a scum partner defending WW and pushing for my lynch without much fear of repercussion.

I have been in games that scratched the borders of the civility plegde. It wasn't fun. This seemed to be going in the same direction. I felt that you and WW having an extensive fight that most of the other players couldn't follow anyway (because it's talk about another game that not everyone was in) wasn't the most useful way to spend our day.

[ashersky]

Congratulations to PNK, who won the last Scare Game!  They receive Archie the Scare Pig!!!

PNK members, in your first post in your QT when night begins, post your vote for who in your house gets the prize!

[faust]

So we won the prize, huh? EFHW, I think you should decide who of us gets to use it.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Did you think I was going too far? Because if not I don't think "nobody could follow along" is a good reason to stop a discussion.

[faust]

Did you think I was going too far? Because if not I don't think "nobody could follow along" is a good reason to stop a discussion.

I think it is. Discussions are there so we, as town, can get a read on someone. That won't be possible if like half the town doesn't no what you're talking about.

I didn't think you were going too far, but the tone was already shifting into a direction where things start getting unpleasant.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I disagree that nobody knew what we were talking about and even if that was true, it's easy to simplify it in such a way so as to make sure everyone understands.

Anyway, the  I'm trying to make is that you were pulling WW out of the fire. This doesn't mean much right  but it may be something to keep in mind for tomorrow.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm pretty convinced Axxle is town so I'm much more comfortable voting mail-mi.

vote: mail-mi

[EFHW]

So we won the prize, huh? EFHW, I think you should decide who of us gets to use it.

Do you know what it does?