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[florrat]

Ok, not by a long shot. And I meant to say top 15. I would put it in the top 10 though. It really good.

I'm not so sure between Herald and Ironmonger. Ironmonger is good for almost all decks (the major exception being terminal draw big money), while herald really requires an almost treasure-less deck. Sure, Herald is epic when you can hit action cards consistently, but Ironmonger is good when there's weak trashing. Revealing Coppers and Estates (or Ruins or other green) is very nice, and even revealing a Curse is decent.

[Robz888]

Ok, not by a long shot. And I meant to say top 15. I would put it in the top 10 though. It really good.

I'm not so sure between Herald and Ironmonger. Ironmonger is good for almost all decks (the major exception being terminal draw big money), while herald really requires an almost treasure-less deck. Sure, Herald is epic when you can hit action cards consistently, but Ironmonger is good when there's weak trashing. Revealing Coppers and Estates (or Ruins or other green) is very nice, and even revealing a Curse is decent.

I don't even really buy the "except for terminal draw" exception, because how often do you even play terminal draw BM anymore? And the presence of Ironmonger is going to present a strong alternative to the already weak strategy of terminal draw BM.

Ironmonger is great. It almost never hurts you, and the more you have the better.

Herald is less consistent, but generates a bigger effect when it works. I think it's a misnomer that you need like *really* strong trashing to make Herald work. It helps of course, but so does just having lots of Heralds and buying lots of actions (it's a bit like Menagerie in this way).

I do give the edge to Herald, but both are very powerful. It's interesting--I think Herald and Ironmonger are essentially the quality of card that weaker players *think* they are getting with Caravan.

[MarkowKette]

Herald better than Ironmonger? That's Blasphemie in my eyes

Ironmonger is #1 on my personal $4 card list without any doubt.

Ironmonger is the only $4 card that that i can't remember
ever not having bought in a game it was present.
The only other card that may compete that is JoaT but i'm sure Ironmonger still wins.
Herald for sure has the bigger impact on boards you want it, but you always want ironmonger and often don't want herald(e.g. you usually don't want herald without any trashing, or when junking is stronger than trashing).
And the same is to say about the $4 Cursers, there are just so many good trashers in Dominion
that you can often ignore them.

And like Robz said i would even go Ironmonger-(X)-BM over most terminal draw-BM strategies
where X can be another decent Terminal but can slo be left out.
I mean early on it's a Peddler + sifting or even as powerful as an activated menagery.
And once you started heavy greening Ironmonger decks really dont stall very fast at all.
 

[jaybeez]

Salvager is too low.

Spice Merchant is too high--it should be down closer to Moneylender.  They do different things but they're of comparable strength, I'm not sure which is better but I'm pretty sure one isn't significantly better than the other.

[sudgy]

Herald better than Ironmonger? That's Blasphemie in my eyes

Ironmonger is #1 on my personal $4 card list without any doubt.

Ironmonger is the only $4 card that that i can't remember
ever not having bought in a game it was present.
The only other card that may compete that is JoaT but i'm sure Ironmonger still wins.
Herald for sure has the bigger impact on boards you want it, but you always want ironmonger and often don't want herald(e.g. you usually don't want herald without any trashing, or when junking is stronger than trashing).
And the same is to say about the $4 Cursers, there are just so many good trashers in Dominion
that you can often ignore them.

And like Robz said i would even go Ironmonger-(X)-BM over most terminal draw-BM strategies
where X can be another decent Terminal but can slo be left out.
I mean early on it's a Peddler + sifting or even as powerful as an activated menagery.
And once you started heavy greening Ironmonger decks really dont stall very fast at all.
 

I like ironmonger, but not quite that much.  I would rank it above herald, though.

[Beyond Awesome]

Um, I for sure ranked Ironmonger above Herald. Sorry, Ironmonger is almost always good. There are a lot of times where ignoring Herald is the right call. Ironmonger is without a doubt one of the most powerful $4 cards in Dominion, and Robz may be correct ranking it #1. With that said, Herald is underrated. So, is Plaza. You can even use Plaza in a BM deck and save the coin tokens for when you start greening. It is the only village that you can buy in BM. Well, I guess you can also buy MV, but Plaza is so much better.

[silverspawn]

eh, ironmonger is unreliable. it's the same problem like with tribute. 's alright

[GeoLib]

Robz may be correct ranking it #1.

That was MarkowKette

[LastFootnote]

Um, I for sure ranked Ironmonger above Herald. Sorry, Ironmonger is almost always good. There are a lot of times where ignoring Herald is the right call. Ironmonger is without a doubt one of the most powerful $4 cards in Dominion, and Robz may be correct ranking it #1. With that said, Herald is underrated. So, is Plaza. You can even use Plaza in a BM deck and save the coin tokens for when you start greening. It is the only village that you can buy in BM. Well, I guess you can also buy MV, but Plaza is so much better.

Walled Village.

[Beyond Awesome]

Robz may be correct ranking it #1.

That was MarkowKette

I was tired when typing that.

[ehunt]

Roses are red, violets are blue, herald's too low, and plaza is too

[HiveMindEmulator]

Roses are red, violets are blue, herald's too low, and plaza is too

Depends on the rose.

[brokoli]

I'm really not that convinced by Herald. I haven't played many games with it, but often I expected it to be better than it really was. I have no idea how to use the overpay, because often there is a better card to buy instead overpaying for Herald. And in the strong decks where I could easily overpay, I have usually nothing in my discard pile.
Herald seems more like a trap to me, or maybe I don't know how to use it.

[KingZog3]

I'm really not that convinced by Herald. I haven't played many games with it, but often I expected it to be better than it really was. I have no idea how to use the overpay, because often there is a better card to buy instead overpaying for Herald. And in the strong decks where I could easily overpay, I have usually nothing in my discard pile.
Herald seems more like a trap to me, or maybe I don't know how to use it.

You don't know how to use it. The overpay is more of a bonus that you can use sometimes, but usually you just pay $4 for it. Herald decks become these unstoppable machines that pretty much just play themselves. Yes, sometimes it's a trap, but it really is very strong.

I get all the arguments for Ironmonger being better. I can't really disagree with them because they are right. I think both cards are essentially as good as each other and it's a hard call to say which should be higher ranked.

[markusin]

Almost no major disagreements on this list, and a whole bunch of cards exactly where I ranked them (including Taxman). I don't like seeing Silk Roads drop in ranking, and I seem to have underrated Quarry.

[Qvist]

No April's Fool: Part 6

[jsh357]

My main disagreement here is Sea Hag, really.  It's so much weaker nowadays that I'm not sure it even deserves to be as high as I personally ranked it.  Tournament as #2 is also a surprise; it's definitely nowhere near as centralizing as it used to be.  Personally, I think Remake and Jack should be #1 and 2 with little question about it. 

[HiveMindEmulator]

I'm suprised Spice Merchant jumped so much. It suffers from the same issues as Loan, and Loan is rated quite low.

Conspirator continues to be rated way too highly. Yes it's very good money for an engine since it doesn't take up space (which in turn means you don't need much hand-size increasing). But money for an engine isn't the biggest thing in the world. There are plenty of other ways to do it that are less good, but not by so much that Conspirator deserves to be a top 20 $4 card, imo.

The Marauder-Sea Hag gap is too large. I used to think Sea Hag was much better because it has a more pronouced effect on game pace with the topdecking part of the attack. However, now I think all the 4 major $4 attacks (Militia, Marauder, Sea Hag, Young Witch) are all pretty close (and around the rank 5-10 range). They are all good enough at slowing the game that they force you to play even a marginal engine. The fact that the Sea Hag attack is more powerful is ofset by the fact that you often don't bother adding it into the engine since the attack is not so good in the engine mirror.

Ironmonger I think is too high. I don't give much credit for stuff that "never hurts". It has to actually provide a strong benefit for me to care. But maybe I'm underrating it for big money. Is that really a thing? The way I look at Ironmonger is that it's first and foremost a village, with the potential to do other stuff. With good trashing, it's basically just a typical $4 village with its bonus being a little sifting, but with slightly slower trashing it has the benefit of being a sifting Peddler until you've trashed enough, which is great for that part of the game. As with Shanty Town, you can sometimes take them early and transition into another village later. It also has the benefit that if you might get the super-lab effect when you start greening (hopefully you still have enough that you can get the village effect off of another one). All in all I think it comes out better than Herald, but not as good as Wandering Minstrel.

[silverspawn]

lol monument is so overrated. sea hag is overrated too. but look at these two:

spice merchant: #15, moneylender #26
militia #9, cutpurse #32

there's just no way that's accurate. cutpurse so gud. so gud!

and i dont buy joat being #4 either. that card just has such a ridiculous powerlevel.

[2.71828.....]

I am not a big fan of young witch.  I probably ranked it way too low (it was in my bottom half), but I just don't see it at #6.  There are so many cards that make it unnecessary (at least on the first buy).  When I look at the top cards on this list, I want to look at those cards that you can't pass up on your 4/3 opening.  Any decent trashing is a good counter, and also any decent bane card prevents its attack.  Basically, it has the good sifting and combos well with tunnel, but that is about it.  I just really don't view it as a strong enough curser to rank it so high. 

[Robz888]

I guess people haven't come to their senses on Sea Hag yet.

[MarkowKette]

I really don't get Sea Hag being #1. I am pretty sure i have a better win-rate-without than win-rate-with .
I'd say you can ignore it more than 50% of the time. Even lookout which is considered one of the weakest trashers is by far enough to ignore Hag. Yes top-decking the curse hurts But Having to play a Sea Hag that provides no benefit hurts yourself just as much. Whenever you can reliably get rid of the Curse later  i'd rather not buy a Hag.
I don't think it deserves a place in the Top 5.

The other four top 5 cards i agree very much on. (Not completely with the order though)

@HME
I think you are using Ironmonger wrong. You rarely want to buy it as a Village. Its main use is to speed up your early turns and make your deck persistent to late game issues. Ironmonger increases the chance of hitting 5 on your Turns 3 or 4 by more than any other $4- card there is. And it helps you cycle early. Those are huge benefits. Saying "it almoast never hurts"
is a big understatement.

@Silverspawn
Yes Cutpurse is just as good as Militia early on maybe even a slight bit better, but still Militia is the MUCH better card all in all.
1. It synergizes with cards like Councilroon,Covernor and Soothsayer
2. It hurts trimmed decks which are really common so much more than cutpurse.

Cutpurse is actually a little better in games that are a rush to $5 cost cards like Cultist, Rebuild, (Minion)
but not so much.

Maybe a difference of 23 ranks is too much, but they should still be far away from each other in my eyes.

[jaybeez]

I'm legitimately surprised to see Ironmonger at #5.  It's good but is it really that good?

For the people who are saying Sea Hag shouldn't be #1, where would you rank it?  Just wondering.

[jsh357]

I'm legitimately surprised to see Ironmonger at #5.  It's good but is it really that good?

For the people who are saying Sea Hag shouldn't be #1, where would you rank it?  Just wondering.

#7 for me, though my opinion on the list has changed some since I made it. (I had Marauder at #3 which is just wrong)

[MarkowKette]

i have Hag on #8 Marauder on #9 and young Witch on #11 (but i'm really bad with young witch and the card might be just better)