Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?  (Read 15052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Trogdor the Burninator

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
  • Respect: +76
    • View Profile
Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« on: January 30, 2014, 06:21:38 pm »
0

I've had some trouble finding any use for Coppersmith. It seems like basically a very swingy dead card to me. Anyone have any tips on how to use it so it's actually decent/good?
Logged
Dominion.games username: Jolinar of Malkshur





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHF_bIjIPAE

(I did not create the Trogdor the Burninator song nor am I associated with its producers in any way.  I just think it sounds cool. :P)

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3391
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 07:27:34 pm »
+5

I've had some trouble finding any use for Coppersmith. It seems like basically a very swingy dead card to me. Anyone have any tips on how to use it so it's actually decent/good?

Swingy? No, it's really not swingy, because you basically shouldn't be buying it at all in situations where its payload is uncertain.

Coppersmith does only one thing: Give you a lot of money in the right circumstances. So, this is actually a more limited ability than you would think, because cards that give you a lot of money when you play them are deceptively bad. You actually want to do other things with your cards, like attack your opponents, trash down, etc. Okay, of course you do need some money at some point and this does that, but it only does it really well if you basically draw your whole deck and have a lot of Coppers. These work against each other, because it's hard to consistently draw your deck and have a lot of Coppers; usually you trash your Coppers so you can draw your whole deck. So bottom line here is it's usually pretty bad as a money source in engine payload. Compare to Bank, which is oodles more expensive, but isn't a terminal, and works with every Treasure, not just Copper, and still isn't like a really essential piece of an engine, often you do just fine with Gold or Platinum.

Like most cards, Coppersmith can shine in the right combo situation. It's pretty good with IGG... reasonably often it will be the terminal you want to pair with IGG. And Apothecary.

But on the whole it's not a very good card, no.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

SirPeebles

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3249
  • Respect: +5460
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 07:49:30 pm »
+3

I want to reiterate what Robz said.  A lot of the weaker action cards are the ones which are just terminal sources of cash.  Coppersmith, Harvest, Adventurer, Counting House, and Pirate Ship to name a few.
Logged
Well you *do* need a signature...

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 07:55:43 pm »
+1

The tips for coppersmith are usually big hands and assured draws. This http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/05/03/guest-article-sample-game-planning/ is a slightly unusual coppersmith example as it doesn't involve an 'engine' but it still relies on powerful card draws.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +2019
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 08:29:17 pm »
+2

Tactician is a great one. Throw in some extra non-terminal draw (or terminal draw+villages). Goons goes nicely with a good enough engine since you'll want to be buying Coppers anyway.
Logged

jonts26

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2746
  • Shuffle iT Username: jonts
  • Respect: +3671
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 08:57:30 pm »
+2

The most common times when I use coppersmith effectively are in wharf engines. Wharf gives very consistent large hands without having to trash coppers and gives plenty of the +buy coppersmith's payload really needs. Throw in a throne room or king's court for some really crazy things.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 09:12:46 pm »
0

I've played some pretty cool games with Golem+Coppersmith. It's great that you can get the benefit from Coppersmith even if the copper wasn't in your hand when you played it.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 09:36:36 pm »
0

The last IRL game I played with Coppersmith was awesome.
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 09:43:33 pm »
0

I've played some pretty cool games with Golem+Coppersmith. It's great that you can get the benefit from Coppersmith even if the copper wasn't in your hand when you played it.

That's Counting House
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 10:37:32 pm »
0

I've played some pretty cool games with Golem+Coppersmith. It's great that you can get the benefit from Coppersmith even if the copper wasn't in your hand when you played it.

That's Counting House
You'd think so, but no. Although, I might be confusing Golem with KC in one of the cases.
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 10:45:06 pm »
+1

I've played some pretty cool games with Golem+Coppersmith. It's great that you can get the benefit from Coppersmith even if the copper wasn't in your hand when you played it.

That's Counting House
You'd think so, but no. Although, I might be confusing Golem with KC in one of the cases.

Nevermind, I was confused, didn't think it through, sorry.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 10:47:12 pm »
+2

I've played some pretty cool games with Golem+Coppersmith. It's great that you can get the benefit from Coppersmith even if the copper wasn't in your hand when you played it.

That's Counting House
You'd think so, but no. Although, I might be confusing Golem with KC in one of the cases.

Nevermind, I was confused, didn't think it through, sorry.
Okay, now I'm really confused. Here's a +1 anyway.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 02:39:11 am »
0

Don't just rely on Coppersmith and the Coppers in your deck alone, you need a way to get them together in a hand where you can make use of the added value.

Wharf is mentioned and it's a good example, it gives you bigger hands and +Buy so you can spend the added value.

King's Court can make it really crazy, because King's Courting a Coppersmith in a hand with 5 Coppers gives +$15 which is just crazy. There are very few cards which can give so much value in the right circumstances.


If you're playing just Coppersmith with money, it has much less added value. The best case is 4 Coppers in hand, where it gives +$4.
But a more realistic case is 2 or 3 Coppers, making it a tad better than Silver, but costing you an action.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Zappie

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 95
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 07:01:37 am »
0

is a coppersmith a good opener if you really need an expensive card like forge, goons or province (with tournament)?
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2014, 07:12:00 am »
0

I don't think so.

The odds of hitting 7+ are slim (need to NOT draw an Estate in your Coppersmith hand).
So you're hoping for a $6 card, aka Goons. But an early Goons is not that devastating to your opponent nor important for you.

Goons is a great comeback card, so if you can you should use your opening buys to set up a deck where you can use later Goons more efficiently. You'd preferably want to play multiple Goons per turn. This means that trashing down or getting some good draw is more important than getting that early Goons.

And if you just want to throw Goons into a money deck, it doesn't matter much whether you get it early. Your opponent will likely get Goons himself, making your Coppersmith less efficient.


For situations like this, where grabbing an early expensive card is nice, I usually prefer something like Death Cart.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1708
  • Respect: +1788
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2014, 02:09:36 pm »
0

I agree Tac-Coppersmith or FV-Wharf-Coppersmith are your best bets.

For something different, I attempted a Coppersmith-Counting House strategy recently.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140112/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1389558683539.txt

Lots of sages, forager for plus buy, and boarder village. Not the best deck ever, and I probably shouldn't have won, but I think it's interesting. :P
Logged

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2400
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4085
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2014, 02:01:21 pm »
0



Nearly misplayed, but it was fun and quick. KC+Coppersmith is just great.

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 07:36:03 am »
+1

Speculating: a Coppersmith/Warehouse opening could be pretty good in some kingdoms. The Warehouse has a decent shot at lining up your Coppersmith with 3 Coppers, which gets you a Gold, which you'll see again quickly because of the cycling. This only helps if you want a Gold rather than some $5 card, of course.
Logged

flies

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 629
  • Shuffle iT Username: flies
  • Statistical mechanics of hard rods on a 1D lattice
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
    • ask the atheists
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2014, 10:50:49 am »
0

Speculating: a Coppersmith/Warehouse opening could be pretty good in some kingdoms. The Warehouse has a decent shot at lining up your Coppersmith with 3 Coppers, which gets you a Gold, which you'll see again quickly because of the cycling. This only helps if you want a Gold rather than some $5 card, of course.
I was going to point out that this strategy will have a hard time buying provinces since you'd need all five cards (coppersmith, cccg) to get to $8 (coppersmith + cgg would also work, but this is harder to get, naturally), but then I noticed you were talking about the opening, so this comment is more of a caution than anything else.
Logged
Gotta be efficient when most of your hand coordination is spent trying to apply mascara to your beard.
flies Dominionates on youtube

jomini

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1060
  • Respect: +768
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2014, 01:55:56 am »
0

Two other cards that can work nicely for megaturn Csmith are Madman and native village. Without better trashing, you can pretty easily setup an 8 copper deck that draws everything (with +action) on the final turn. Madman gives you a good stockpile of action, so you can also use terminal +buy a bit, you pretty much have to commit to Madman/Csmith megaturn from the beginning and pile down in one go. Madman is quite versatile, so Csmith may not be your best option; but you can go big not too hard (you can also build up to huge coin totals if you have non-terminal +buy, just keep buying copper).

Native village is pretty situational, you need to get down to the point where you can gain & mat Csmith at the same time (as Csmith is essentially clutter before the big turn), but some setups can work for that. IwIwNvNv gains potential value quickly, but getting there tends to take a good trasher. Fill the mat with Nv and Csmith, then spend some turns getting two or three coppers. Armory/Nv and Procession/Useful 3 work decently too.
Logged

DStu

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2627
  • Respect: +1490
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 02:34:37 am »
0

I think one should not get distracted by the potential megaturn with Coppersmith.  Of course this sometimes work, and this is a great use for Coppersmith, but as mentioned before by basically everyone, it's quite hard to draw your deck with 7++Coppers in your deck.

But even if you trash some of your Coppers, Coppersmith might be something for your engine.  If you there are enough actions, but you are looking for some money, a terminal $3 (or $4) for $4 is still a good deal, and this requires you to just have 3(4) Coppers in your deck, which happens a lot more often than keeping 7 Coppers in an engine or even buying some.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2014, 11:50:36 am »
+3

Step 1: Buy Coppersmith.
Step 2: Play Coppersmith and buy ******.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2014, 05:05:35 pm »
0

I think Governor is now my second-favorite Coppersmith enabler. I just played a game where I pretty much just went for single-Province, Coppersmith-fueled turns, rather than a huge, double-Province turn, Coppersmith-fueled engine. It was a lot of fun. My opponent got one turn where he Saboteured two of my Provinces, but it was not enough! For some reason I never considered using Governor and Coppersmith together before.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 05:06:49 pm by LastFootnote »
Logged

AHoppy

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
  • Respect: +529
    • View Profile
Re: Coppersmith Strategy, Anyone?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2014, 10:14:47 pm »
0

From my most recent tournament game:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140222/log.516d3f97e4b082c74d7b5ddf.1393088361190.txt
Basically throne rooms and getting enough actions/draws to make it worth it.
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 2.224 seconds with 20 queries.